The Ups and Downs of Entrepreneurship with Trey Lewellen
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There's always ups and downs. No matter where you're at in the business life, if you're making sales or not making sales, you're making a lot of sales, making no sales, those same ups and downs, kind of like a roller coaster, is just the path of entrepreneurship. We all have it. We all have the stories that are fun to hear about. In the moment, they were not fun. In the moment, they're never fun, but they're always fun to laugh at later because you survive. And I think that's what kept me driven. People ask all the time, how'd you get through it? You faced so much just...

And Freddie, like, how'd you get through it? And it was just like, I just kept telling myself, like, I get to live tomorrow. And that's a beautiful thing. In the last decade, I went from being a startup entrepreneur to selling over a billion dollars in my own products and services online. This show is going to show you how to start, grow, and scale a business online. My name is Russell Brunson, and welcome to the Marketing Secrets Podcast.

What's up everybody? Welcome back to the Marketing Secrets Podcast. Today's interview is going to blow your mind. I brought somebody who was one of our first ClickFunnels members ever. We think he was in the top 10, the first people to join ClickFunnels. He also had the first funnel that broke to Comic Club and went from zero to over $30 million in two months, I think is what we figured. That's right, months. It was insane. And we're going to tell that story, which is going to be a lot of fun. But on top of that,

we're not just going to talk about the good stuff. He's going to go deep into the dark side of things, the things you don't know about, the stress, the anxiety, the legal problems, the issues, the merchant accounts, because he had a funnel, probably the fastest growing funnel I've ever seen. But with that came a lot of other things. So we're going to go deep into that in this interview, which is really fascinating. We actually just finished it up and it was really cool to hear that side of it. And then

From that, most people who have big successes and they fail, they don't come back. And Trey then talks about how he came back and what he's doing now and all the funnels, e-com funnels he's doing. So if you've ever been interested in like, how do you do e-commerce online? Not so much like, how do we build a Shopify store, but like actual e-commerce funnels. Like this is a guy who basically invented the blueprint. He invented it, he figured it out, and he's been the one who I've known who scaled it over and over and over again more than anybody. He's got more winning e-com funnels than, again, anyone I know.

Do you know anyone better than you? Probably not. I've looked. Yeah. They're not there. They're not there. At least they're hiding. Yeah. So this interview is amazing. We just got done with it. I'm excited for you guys to jump in and meet our guest for today. His name is Trey Luell, ClickFunnels member number five or six, whatever it was. And with that said, let's jump right into the podcast.

All right, so I'm here today with Trey Llewellyn. Trey, how are you feeling today? Doing good, man. I'm so excited you're here in Boise again. It's a trip. It's a trip. It's a quick trip. Nobody wants to come to Boise, but when they're here, they love it. I do love it. It's beautiful. Yeah. So Trey came in today because we were working on a secret project. We were working on a secret project.

for the ClickFunnels community. You were building out an entire training for our people, showing them how to sell e-commerce through funnels. And the story behind how you got here is fascinating. So I want to talk about that story for a second. But I also want to go deep because you've had like

some huge ups, some huge downs, back and forth. And I want to share, I want to talk about all those kind of things. I think a lot of times people just hear about the highlight reel. I think I'm excited to talk about both sides of it. If you're cool with that. Yeah. Okay. But first I want to tell, I told this story earlier on a Facebook live, but this is really fun. So we launched ClickFunnels. You were customer number what? Three. I think I'm three. No one has never officially said, Trey, you're a number this. I'm pretty, I have to be three or 10 or I hope I'm in that number. Like

Single digits. Yeah, okay. So Trey's a single digit, one of the first people ever to join ClickFunnels. And I think – I don't know how far you were in your career, but you were just kind of getting started, right? Like it wasn't something where your first funnel didn't just take off, right? I was a no-name. No one knew me. I knew no one. And I was just fiddling in my insurance office. That's what I was doing. And I remember you told me a story, and I'll probably get the details wrong, but you talked about like –

Like you heard me talk about like just launch a funnel do a funnel one funnel away and then you started doing them And then how many funnels did you do before you had the one that like popped man? Uh, what's the story? Give me like what are some of the ones you tried? I'm just curious like some of the funny stories behind it. Geez. Uh, what did we try? I mean we had like we had some like like uh little winners, you know, like we're good So like before click funnels, we sold t-shirts. Yeah, and I tried to build a t-shirt It's like on shopify or something or how are you selling them teespring? Oh, yeah

Of course. That was the worst thing ever. Made good money, but then people came in our Facebook page. That's when you could actually reach people on Facebook. They're like, hey, I bought all your t-shirts. Give me something else to buy. That was what they were saying. That's when I was messaging anybody I knew in my little circle of like, hey, how do you do this? WordPress? They're like, no, ClickFunnels. I was like, what's that? They're like, Russell Brunson is building this huge thing. I went over to ClickFunnels.com, signed up,

I said, you know, sign me up for the free trial or whatever. And that was like when like things, the building blocks were coming in. And, you know, I think that it started with like webinars and then it moved in. Like I was just, I was just waiting for e-comm. Like that's all I was just sitting there waiting for e-comm because I was like, I need this. The way we first launched is we weren't finished when we launched this. We did a reverse launch. So we like, we launched like you can create an opt-in funnel. Hey, you can create this funnel. Hey, we have order forms. Like, yeah, it was because we,

launch before you're ready. That's like how entrepreneurs do, right? Yeah. That's I sell products before. So you're like waiting for us to actually like, yes, that's crazy. So it worked. Uh, we started doing our little pages like is great. Cause you can just, you know, build it. And I was a computer science major, so it came easy to me.

And there was no programming. You just, you know, you build it. And so I built, the first thing we built, I remember this, was a 10 sign. And it said, due to ammo shortages, there will be no warning shots. I bought that off of Amazon for $6 and I sold it on ClickFunnels for $12. And that made, I don't know, maybe a couple sales. Like we would post it to our Facebook page, which had 300,000 likes, which got comments. So you can monetize it a little bit, but it was nothing like, you know, we were about to do.

And so, man, I'm trying to think of what some of the stuff we tried. We tried, we tried P52 can openers. We tried a deck of cards. We tried solo targets. We tried oil. Uh, we did all these like little things. I remember you told me that you like walk to Walmart or something and just find stuff and list it. Yes. I would walk to Walmart and list it. Uh,

You just go find a product. You're like, maybe this will sell. Let's see if it would sell. You run out of ideas. Amazon wasn't like huge yet. You know, Amazon wasn't full of ideas. So you're still at the retail level of like, you know, what's selling. And I, and I kind of still do that today, but you go into stores and you look at what's depleted, like what inventory is depleted. And that's how I kind of guess that like, Oh, that kind of, that kind of is probably selling. Like people are actually buying a lot of that, that they can't restock it fast enough. And so that's how I found, uh, what was, what you're referring to is the cleaning gun cleaning kit. I had like 42 items that,

I closed my eyes. I'm like, what would I pay for that? 50 bucks. Holy crap. Walmart's selling for 20. These guys are crazy. And I take that back, take photos of it, upload it to a page that looked like Trey built it and then hope that something sells. And that was the beginning, man. What would you do if something sold? You bought it at Walmart. You bought one or two of them, I'm assuming. You saw if it sold. Did you try to source them? No.

Well, yes, we would source them. But funny enough is, you know, we got that cleaning kit. I uploaded it and it sold like gang gangbusters. Like I think we sold 30 or 50 within a week and Walmart only had five. We need more Walmart. Go order some more. I had to go to Walmart. I had to go all the Walmarts in St. Louis. So I went to every single Walmart and bought out all the gun cleaning kits. It's a horrible day to come back and just be like, we got to ship these. Like that was definitely not a

a good management of my time you know think about how many people like wait because they're trying to find the perfect product try to source and they go and buy those inventory and it sits in their garage for like 20 years of their life versus you're just like driving a walmart's grabbing crap and selling it i was grabbing crap and selling it well selling for more i sold it for 50 bucks yeah so i was making money on walmart right my own myself for 20 i'll sell them for 50 so i was definitely making 30 but then we would outsource it get it for i think we got it for like four bucks landed so i made even more margin right yeah but yeah that was the idea like i i actually so

I mean, to this day, we still sell products before they land. Like we import it all from China, but even products I'm like, oh, is this going to work? We start trying to sell that product before we even have like the box created with our logo on it.

And that way we know like, oh, it's selling. Great. Put out like a four email series like, hey, your order's in production. Hey, your order's, you know, being QA checked. Hey, your order's being shipped. So that kind of delays us. Or, you know, we'll be like, hey, due to X, Y, Z, you know, shortage in employees or whatever, like your order's delayed. Some will cancel, some will refund. But at least we know there's life in the product. And we say, okay, this is a go. Like this is a green light offer. Let's hit it versus...

Oh, we didn't make any sales. No harm fail because we didn't invest all this product. Cause like you said earlier is sitting inventory is bad inventory. Yeah. Yeah. So tell us about like when the first one hit, because I have my side of the story. I'll tell later, but like for you, like, what was that? Why'd you have to come to the idea? Walk through that whole process. Yeah. Okay. Oh yeah. Yeah.

So the flashlight, what a story. Greatest story ever. We could be an eight-hour podcast, honestly. So short version is the flashlight was an offer that we tried. We tried to sell it for $12.95. We bought it on Amazon for five. So it was listed on Amazon for five. Tried to sell it for $12.

Didn't sell. It's just a normal flashlight or a little. Yeah, yeah, a little flashlight, nothing different about it. And so I tossed a box of them of 100 in my closet. We were working out of the house in the closet. And four or five, six months goes by. And I go in there. That's where we had our airplanes, our remote control airplanes. And I tripped over these dang, dang flashlights.

And I was like, can we just get rid of these? Like, let's just dump these things. So I built another real quick funnel and for whatever reason they sold, like they all sold. I was like, huh, maybe we should buy more. Like I've never really said that about a product. I was like, maybe we should buy more. So we bought more and we kind of course corrected the funnel a little bit to where we actually make a little bit of money. And it's been a little bit, so I'm trying to kind of remember what kind of happened there, but

We built the funnel and we started increasing the price. So we went from $12 to 26 to 36 to 46 to 56 to 66. And that's where it broke. So people stopped buying at 66. It was a $56 offer. And the conversions were good, but they weren't great. And like we couldn't, we were like breaking even on Facebook. And so-

I remember one of the key factors I teach everybody that ever comes into my life. Like if there's one thing that I can leave you with, it's to call your customers, you know? Um, and so call your customers and call your, call your leads of why they didn't buy. It's the easiest thing to fix your funnel. So I call this, I'm just making phone calls one day and I was like, Hey man, saw that you were interested in flashlight, uh, but you didn't buy. Why not? And this guy, you know, these guys are gunslinger guys. And he's like, he gets his little raspy voice, you know, like he just got done smoking a pack and he's like, Hey man, like I, uh,

I didn't buy your flashlight. I'm a flashlight guru, but it just didn't seem like it was a fit. I was like, what are you talking about? He's like, well...

I'm looking for, you know, a manly, a masculine flashlight. I was like, oh, okay. What, like, what's that? Tell me more. Just kind of getting more out of them. Yeah. Manly. What's a manly? He's like, I'm looking for like one of those tactical flashlights. It was like tactical. I was like, that's interesting. So I literally go to ClickFunnels, edit the page and I type in tactical G700. So it was a G700 flashlight first. Now it's a tactical G700. So all I did was add the word and change the flashlight. Yeah.

And I pressed save. And literally, I'm telling you, within minutes, our conversions doubled. They were doubled. Which means your ad cost cut in half, right? Cut in half, yeah. And I was like, holy crap, that's amazing. Like all they wanted was a tactical flashlight. And that's how I separated myself from all these other flashlights.

From one dude who told you tactical. From one guy. And that has happened more and more. There's other examples of that that's happened through my career of just these one little word changes. Like with the oil that we sold, we would buy a 50-pack of –

What are those towels called? The white... You know what I'm talking about? Yes. Yeah. Okay. So those towels, microfiber. Yeah. So microfiber towels, buy a 50 pack off Amazon for $10. So each one costs, whatever that is, 25 cents. And we were selling those for $3.99. And so on the funnel, conversions were like 15% take rate on the order bump.

Well, I called people like, hey, why don't you grab the microfiber towels? Like, oh, I can get those anywhere. They're like, well, what would make it better? Like, oh, well, if it was a premium microfiber towel, I'd buy more of them. Premium. Typed in premium. Hey, grab a premium microfiber towel with your oil selection. Sales, boom.

just rocketed. So now I wasn't investing money with towels from China. I was just going to Amazon, buying a pack of 50, sending it to my fulfillment center. And they were just hand one single handling each one out of the pack. That's how I save money. So that those are like ways to do it. Right. So tactical flashlight was how we kind of got our start.

Did Facebook, scaled Facebook. Went to an event called Traffic and Conversion. At that event, I was invited to go to a Survival Life meeting with Perry Belcher. And at that meeting was like these hundred affiliates that were like pushing Survival Life stuff. Sat down,

This guy, Justin Brooke is there. And, um, I'm telling him, I'm like, Hey man, like, you know, you're an ads guy. That's just his kind of name to fame. I was like, what would you do? He's like, I'd talk to this guy right here. I was like, Oh, hello. And, uh, I was like, what's your name? He's like, my name is Brian Lippman.

I was like, what's up, Brian? What do you do? He goes, I send emails. I was like, oh, that's cool. He goes, what do you do? I said, I go, I sell flashlights. He's like, cool. I told him the sales we were doing, which was decent. And he's like, well, you should call me after the meeting and we'll see if we can make something happen. I was like, okay. So I call him. Here's the offer. Hey, do you got an email that you've written? No, I just got some Facebook copy that says, you know, military grade flashlights.

tactical flashlight. You know, I was like talking a little bit about how, you know, we took this technology from the military and now it's available to the public. Like just create a spin, a fun spin on the flashlight. He's like, oh, you know, let's test it out. I said, okay, man, how much for a test? He's like, oh, 10 grand. I was like, $10,000? Like this was 10 years ago. 10 grand? He's like, yeah, 10 grand. Like it's nothing. You know, I'm like, man, I wish I felt like 10 grand was nothing. And so I was like, maybe he's just, you know,

So I was like, all right. I was like, Bryce, my business partner, like, what do you think? He's like, oh, let's try it, I guess. I was like, well, whatever. So we grab an Amex because we didn't have 10 grand. And here you go, Brian. And he's like, all right, let's send it out. He goes, I will not let you lose. And that was really confident for me. You know, he's like, I won't let you lose. Like, I'm going to win for you either way. Like, we're going to make it work. Okay. I believe in you. He goes, if it fails, I'll refund the 10 grand. Okay. Little risk. Here you go.

So he sends out the email and we made sales. We made more than 10 grand back. We made, I think 20, I think we made 20 grand profit was probably two to three grand. Hey, Hey, Oh, I like that. So I called Brian up, Brian, that was a success. Like we made some money. And I was like, now what? He's like, Oh, we full send it. I was like, full send it. What's that mean? He's like, well, I'm going to send it to everybody. Like all my emails. I was like, how many is that? I don't know if the time is like 20 million emails or 15 million emails. I was like, okay, let's do it.

how much is that? 80 grand. I was like, Brian, like bro, you want me to hand you, I've never, I've only met this guy once, right? 80,000, I'm like, this dude is running with my money. So, I, I, I even still get sweaty right now. He calls, he's like, so you doing it or not? And I was like, I guess, I guess we'll do it and I'll have 80 grand. So I called Amex, I was like, hey, can I get a boost? And they're like, well, how much do you need? Like 20 grand, 20, you know, 22. I was like, 80. Are you buying a house? What's happening? I was like,

My first house was $90,000 we bought. Well, the Maserati I bought was $80,000. So we call them Maserati bombs. You know, when I'm handing these... Maserati bombs. I would call them Maserati bombs. And I was like, all right, well, here's a Maserati bomb. Because if it explodes, I'm not getting it back. And so I handed him this $80,000 on an Amex. And I told Bryce, and I was like...

we might not get this money back. Like, I guess we got a charge back that we could do. So ironically enough, I'm headed to Hawaii for a mastermind and why, whatever, I forgot why it was so late, but it was like 10 o'clock at night. And I knew, I knew that, um, the email was supposed to send at that time at like 10 o'clock. And so I'm watching our watch. He's watching his watch. We got our phone. This was back when like you could do, it wasn't Zapier's, but it was like an email that goes to an app.

And that app makes a ka-ching sound. So it's like ka-ching, like when you got a sale. It's kind of cool. So it feels good. It's a good feeling when you hear that ka-ching. You're like, oh, I made money. And so I said it on loud and I'm trying to eat dinner. I'm nervous because nothing's happening. And it's 10 o'clock. The third hand, second hand is going past. I'm like, we got no sales. Like we got no sales. We are screwed. And a minute goes by, two minutes go by, three minutes go by. And then I hear this ka-ching. I was like, whoop.

Okay. Okay. That was 50 bucks. Not bad. Closer to 80. And within like five minutes, it went from ka-ching to here, ka-ching here. It was like, ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka-ka

was so loud and so boisterous and like people were having so much fun to where these kachings took it over. And the whole dinner table, I've never said it before, the whole dinner table goes silent. And everybody's just like staring at our phones because it's like just going nuts. And everybody's like, what's that? I said, that's a Maserati bomb.

And they're like, holy smokes. And I go, me and Bryson after dinner, we go back. And Bryson, I got a picture of him. He's standing up with his leg like this. He's holding his phone. And I was like taking a picture. And I was like, that's a cool picture because you made $1,000 in that picture. Like that was 1,000. Like in the time that he raised his leg.

We made a thousand bucks. I was like, this is crazy. Like he doesn't see. So we get home. I was like, Brian, super success. Awesome. What do we do? Like, how do we do one of those? Like I'm ready. Like my Amex burning for Brian. He's like, it's done. That's everybody. What do you mean that's done? He's like, that was everybody. That's full send it. No one's ever done that before. No one's ever done that before. Like what are you talking about? And he's like, yeah, you're the first one. I couldn't believe it. I was like, holy smokes.

So he's like, I don't got anything else because we sent the whole email list. Like you got to come back in like 30 days, 40 days. That's when I joined Inner Circle. Yeah. And I was like, you know, everybody's always like, what do you ask Russell? And I had one question. What do you do after Facebook, after emails? Like I was like, where's the next traffic? And you came to me and you go, all right, this is risky. And I don't trust this guy. Yeah.

but I'm going to tell you right now, he might do some favors for him. And that was Uncle Bernardo. And so I was like, so tell me about Uncle Bernardo. And he's like, well, I had this supplement. It wasn't a supplement. It was a supplement. You go, I got with Bernardo on a Friday. He called me. He goes, hey, I'm going to push this offer. You go, yeah, you push it.

What's your limits? What's your limits? No cap. As long as you're profitable, I don't care. Yeah, no cap. Profitable, CPA, get after it. And I think you woke up on Sunday to notice that you were out of stock. He had sold like eight months worth of inventory in one day. Yeah. And the supplements, it's like to get new inventory is like a three-month process. Right. Yeah. Gone. Gone. And I remember, I think I told you this. I go, if he just does a quarter of that for us, I'd be forever grateful. Yeah. Yeah.

So I called him up. I was like, hey, man, got a flashlight offer. Russell said that you know what to do. Here you go. He goes...

Ha ha ha ha ha. He laughs. He goes, ha ha ha. That's what he laughs like. No, just joking. He's going to watch this. He's going to watch it. So he's like laughing at me. He goes, what's so special about the flashlight? It's tactical. I don't know. Like, I honestly didn't know. I was like, it's tactical. He goes, okay. He goes, but he goes, I can't take this to my pubs. He worked for a network. And he's like, I can't take this to my pubs because they'll just laugh at me. Like, we've never seen anything like this before. I was like, well, it's selling on Facebook. It's selling on email. Like, it should sell online.

everywhere else he's like dude you have to pay me i was like how much you want he's like i want 10 grand i was like what is it with you guys and needing 10 grand to like test this stuff like like you're killing me so i was like whatever so i give him 10 grand and i think it was like during the week or weekend three days go by we see some sales coming through like oh okay you know bernard is up to his little games like he's got sales coming in and he calls me and he goes trey

this offer is going to be huge. We want it on a CPA. And I was like, okay, what does that mean? And he's like, I just need you for every conversion. I need you to pay me X. You know, I think at that time it was like 80 bucks. So every time we get a conversion, no matter what the sale was, it was $80 we pay him out. Okay, cool. Is there a cap? That means like basically they can only sell so many per day. I was like, no,

And I was like, just do what you did for Russell. I warned you. Yeah. Yeah. I haven't been speaking to you at that point. And so he's like, okay. And then, dude, we, we, we, it was just crazy. Like he went to town, he took that offer and he just went to everywhere and everyone and blew us up. He, he,

Scaled it, you know? And every day, every day the Stripe account got bigger. As in like the sales we did yesterday, it was always like 25% more the next day, 25% more the next day, 25. So we were doing 10 grand a day to 15 grand a day to 25 grand a day to 100 grand a day. We capped. I remember capping at like 475 or 500 grand in one day and just flabbergasted.

flashlight sales. We were 70,000 units, no, 70,000 orders in the hole by, inside our ShipStation account. We could not keep up with the orders. Customer service, I was getting 15,000 phone calls a day. I had 20 people.

Working. The phones. We are going to stop. Slow down. You can't stop. Yeah. That's what I said. But I don't know. We got to slow the train down. He goes, we're on a freight train, bro. If we stop this train, it won't come back. So,

So as an early entrepreneur, like you don't know what you don't know. So I was like, scale it, send it. Like I'll figure it out. And that's, you know, we were just in figure out mode. Like we weren't on our business. We were definitely in our business and just picking up the crumbs, you know, picking up the messes. Yeah. We'll go into that in a minute. I'm going to, I'm going to talk about some of the messes people can understand, but

But it's crazy to think about that story. And my side of the story, I've told you this before, but it's crazy because we had just launched ClickFunnels. It was the first year. And everyone plugs into Stripe, but we're able to see the volume happening through Stripe, through all the merchants. We get paid a percentage on that, right? And I remember looking in the back office one day, and we had – I can't remember. We were –

everyone on the platform combines probably making 10 grand a day or something like that, which was cool. It also went from 10 grand to 30 to 50 to 100 to 300 to 500, right? And I'm freaking out and Todd's freaking out. We're like, everyone on the platform is making so much money. We were so excited that this was happening. I remember going like,

Facebook lives and Periscope by showing like the thing like, like ClickFunnels members are blown. And it was crazy because I didn't know it was you. I didn't know it was one person doing the majority of the volume, but it was crazy because for me, it gave me so much belief in what we were doing. I'm like, Funnels work. I've been telling everybody this. Like I finally got proof it's actually working. And then, and it was cool because like that bought me into my business and my calling and my mission so much more because I was like now like tell everybody like,

Cause I saw that and it's crazy because again, I, um, I didn't know it was all coming from you, but it gave me belief in what I was doing as well to come out. And like, it's crazy next. Now we do, you know, the click flows platform processes, I think like $3 billion a year now, which is not, that's not your volume. Is it? It might be.

That is not my fault. But like that was the thing that gave me belief in what we were doing for me to triple down and just be so excited because of that. So it's kind of like this weird blessing happened for me watching your – having your success happen. And then I found out – I can't remember, five or six months later. And you're like, I saw that live and it was crazy because like your numbers and mine were almost the same. I was like, oh, yeah. So thank you for that.

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So first off, I want everyone to hear that part of the story because I think I tell the story like you're one funnel away. I talk about it a lot, right? And people hear me say that. It's like, well, what does that look like? And

And the reality is there's always pros and there's cons with that, right? Like the pros are just like it hit, it worked. Like, oh, this is true. I can tell you a dozen times in my life when I had the one funnel away moment. Like we had it in ClickFunnels. Like when ClickFunnels finally hit, it was the same thing. Like it was blowing up. Year one, we got 10,000 members and then the software crashed and everything was crashing and we couldn't keep up support or operations or everything. It was just like we almost lost our business year one because we had success because the funnel worked.

And it's like that side of it. And no one ever talks about that side of it. And I want to talk about that. And then we're going to come back to more fun stuff and more all the stuff you're doing today and all the other funnels and offers. But I do want to share this part just because I think a lot of entrepreneurs don't know what happens when it hits. And again, there's the positive and the negative. I'm sure they've just visualized the positive. But I'd love for you to dive into some of the other side of it, as much as you're willing to share. But just, you know, yeah, you get to the point where you're doing $500,000 in sales a day. Like, yeah.

You can't keep up with that. It's impossible. It was impossible. We didn't have the systems in place.

uh, geez, I mean the call center alone, like 15,000 calls, like people were leaving voicemails, like, where's my flashlight? You know? And they're mad. Like, like for me, you know, I'm like, it's a flashlight, but for them it was a gift. It was a Christmas present. It was their only money they had at the time. And that's what they want. The one thing they bought and they wanted their flashlight. They wanted their flashlight. Like it was, it was wild. Uh,

geez, I don't know what, what is the most fun. I think, you know, I have fun stories, uh, which are, which are doomsday stories. I remember, I remember when the news showed up, um, and they, they, the local news had been doing an article on us, which they don't tell you until they show up with the video cameras and the spotlights. And you're just like deer in a dead headlight. And I remember the, it was funny cause we went and watched it. Cause I remember the call center guy, he's like,

we're on the news. And I was like, what are you talking about? Like they hadn't come to our office yet. And he's like, check this out. So we pull it up. The call center was kind of like a room like this where everybody had their, their, their desktops. I had them all big 25 inch screens for the apples, like nice stuff. So we pull it up. All 25 call reps are just like huddle around this TV, watching this news article. And what you see is this grandma in her kitchen. And she's like,

Yep, they just keep calling. They just keep calling. I can't call nobody. I pick up the phone and there's somebody there. No dial tone. And the lady's like, well, how has this affected your life? She goes, I can't make a call out. I can't receive calls. I can't talk to my grandchildren. I can't talk to my children. I can't talk to my friends. Nothing. All because of this flashlight company here in St. Louis. And you guys are outbound calling them? No. No.

Her number was one digit off from the number of ours. And so people were just fat fingering her number. We were getting 15,000 calls a day. A hundred of those were shifted over to her. And so she would answer the phone. And so they video recorded her. You see the phone ring. Hello. Hello.

nope, this ain't, this ain't, that's a scam. And I was like, and I'm watching this. I'm like, oh my gosh. Oh, I'm just going, I'm like, oh my gosh. She goes, that's a scam. You need to call your bank and charge back. Just the words that we as entrepreneurs and CEOs hate to hear, you know, like charge back. And I'm just like, wow. And she'd hang it up. I tell you, it was wild. Hang it up. Ring.

Hello. Like I was like, she ain't lying. Like that was the amount of calls she's getting. That's crazy. It's just same story, same story. And the news made it like, you know, dark invasion and stuff like that. So how that happened, that was a learning experience for us, right? Like, like Alex Sharfman, which was at Pirate's Cove, you know, I told these stories, right? And the one thing I remember from him,

As I tell you the same thing, like we did $30 million in like two and a half months. Like, Oh, that's great. Uh, pretty much lost it all. And you know, he, he said something to me that time, which I was like, I've taken it to heart and I've told other people that he goes, you got a $30 million education. And I was like,

wow, like that's a really cool spin to understand. Like, I feel bad because I didn't take much home from that. And it was like, I was like a has been, you know, like, oh, I had the success. And then like, what do you do after that? And it crashes and like, can I do it again? Can I create the spark? Like, I don't know. You go through all these like psychological demons that, you know, come and try to capture you. And that was really cool for him to say. And I took that to heart because, um,

That was an education. Like we go to college and pay, I mean, I don't know what my college was, maybe 120 grand now, but a $30 million education. I learned so much just by the law of, you know, getting in the dirt. Well, think about things like you learn about the systems, right? But that inside there's the customer support stuff. There's probably shipping logistics you can figure out. There's importing stuff from, from China. I'm sure there's traffic. Like how do you handle the relationship and the mass me? Like, I can't imagine like all the different things you'd have to figure out and try to solve while like,

while all this is raining on you, sales are still coming in. People are like, you can't stop. You can't stop the train. And then as soon as you do stop the train, this happened to me, at least I'm sure I'm assuming similar thing. Like you stopped the train, all the affiliates who were promoting it are like, wow, this offer converted. And two minutes later, they've got a flashlight offer. And now you've got 500 competitors who were your partners. Now your competitors and it's just gone. And you're like gone. Everything I just created just got ripped off by the people who supported you for a dollar. Yeah.

Usually a dollar difference. Yeah. That's what the CPA is. But to rewind just a second. So the, the lesson I learned from the grandma was not to have a local number for the company. That was the lesson. And so that cost me a lot. That costs the business a lot, but real quickly, we got eight, three, three number and,

those numbers aren't grandma's numbers, right? Those numbers are other businesses, like call them all you want. But the R83 number is now like validated to where we're not going to harm someone's home and miss, you know, type. The other thing was, is I think we called somebody of the number and we had the wrong number on our, uh,

um, our label, our shipping label. We couldn't find it. Couldn't figure out where it came from. Um, so that was, that was, that's, that's always an interesting story. Uh, you know, we also had the other stories where, uh, one time this guy calls and he's like, uh, Hey, is the, is the owner there? That was never a good call. And I was like, Oh, I'm here. And I was like, what's he need? He's like, they're like, well, um, uh, his house burned down.

I was like, what are you talking about? They're like, well, one of your flashlights caught his house on fire. Oh no. I was like, gosh, darn it. Like we're, we're out of business. Like we're gone. So I put on the headset. Hey, this is a tray. And how can I help you? He goes, he goes, how you doing? I said, probably better than you. I said, how can I help you? He goes, well,

I gotta tell ya. He goes, I bought one of your tactical flashlights. And I said, uh-huh. And then he goes, I was sitting in my rocking chair and I was just sitting there. And you know, I can't hear well.

And my kitty cat is sitting on the couch. And all of a sudden, I'm watching the ball game. I see my cat fling up in the air, run across the living room. And I see Grandma just running with a towel. And I said, something must be wrong. So I looked over. I said, Grandma, what's going on? She goes, honey, the bathroom's on fire. I said, oh, no. So he got up. He goes over. He did.

Sure enough, the lithium battery had blew up in their bathroom, caught the bathroom on fire. So now the bathroom is on fire in their house and they're swatting it with towels. And they put it out. And I was like, oh my gosh, what happened?

What do you want me to do? And because I'm like, I don't know. Buy him a new house or something? I don't got no money. And he's like, well, I've been thinking about it. And I think it'd be okay if you sent me just two more flashlights. I was like...

Oh, praise Jesus. Like, I could not believe he said that. I was like, I'll send you five. So I was like, yes, sir. I will get those out to you right away. I said, boys, pack up two flashlights, overnight mail to this gentleman right here. And I was like, good Lord. Like, we are...

again, like touch of death, you know, like you just never know what's going to happen. We, we had this, we had this, this, this, uh, uh, you know, the FBI showed up one time because it was a tactical flashlight. Uh, they got, they got a call in because, uh,

We had a headline that was like, you know, TSA gets through TSA. I brought one into the airport and it had like a ridge on it. And I took a picture in the airport like this with the planes outside. I was like, TSA approved. And that got us all in a dizzy. And so the FBI showed up. Great marketing. Great marketing. But somebody reported us to the FBI. They showed up. We made friends. And so you know how that goes. But they asked a lot of questions. And...

you know, they, they said, just don't, don't advertise it like that. I said, okay. So, you know, like all these things, you know, stir up and like, it's great. And it's not, it's like you live through the ups and downs. Like there's always ups and downs, you know, no matter where you're at in the business life. Like, you know, if you're making sales or not making sales, you're making a lot of sales, making no sales, like those same ups and downs, kind of like a rollercoaster is like just the path of entrepreneurship. You know, like we all have it. We all have the stories. They're fun to hear about. Um,

Um, but I, in the moment they were not fun in the moment. They're never fun, but they're always fun to laugh at later because you survive, you know? And I think that's what kept me driven is, you know, like people ask all the time. It's like, well, how'd you get through it? Like you, you faced so much just blah in front of you. Like, how'd you get through it? And it was just like, I just kept telling myself, like, I get to live tomorrow and that's a beautiful thing. Like I get to live tomorrow. Like, uh, we'll take care of whatever the issues are, but we'll get, we'll take care of it.

We were getting 15,000 calls a day, you know, coming in like, where's my flashlight? Where's my flashlight? And I, uh, I hire this, uh, uh, Mexican, uh, call center. They had like 200 agents. I was like, let's plug and play. And I call them to like onboarding takes 30 to 45 days to plug you in, get y'all set up. I said, I need it done in like five because we're just on a railroad that like nowhere, like we're going to crash.

And so they're like, cool, we'll do it. I said, I need you to like do overnight training, get these people on. I need like 50 to 75 agents overnight, ready to go. So they plug us up.

And they're like, we're ready. I said, okay, let's go. And so we plug in. Meanwhile, we are able to hear what's called barging the call. We can barge the call in St. Louis. I have me and two other guys barging the calls in like a back room. So we can listen in, just make sure they're saying the right things, making sure everything's going good. So the first call comes in early, you know, open up 8am. I'm on the phones. I hear them. First call center comes in, call comes in. Where's my effing flashlight?

Call Center Co's. Be there tomorrow. Good. Click. I was like, huh. Let me look up that order. Look up that order. It just got like ordered two weeks ago and it's three months out. Like we're 70,000 orders in the queue. We're getting out 5,000 orders a day and it's growing. We're not going to make it. He's not getting that flashlight tomorrow. I was like, oh, that's weird.

Bob over here. It's like, Bob, what are you hearing on your call? He's like, they're telling them that they're going to get the flashlight tomorrow. I said, okay, like all of them?

all of the agents. So all the agents, the 50 or 75 that we brought on, it's just like ring. Where's my flashlight? Be there tomorrow. Great. Click. Where's my flashlight? Be there tomorrow. Good. Click. Like they got great answer rates. They got great. There's putting it out. Well, the next day we went from 15,000 calls to 22,000 calls because it's like my flashlight didn't come. You said it was going to be here tomorrow. I'm going to charge back. I'm going to, you know, want a refund. And that's when we knew we were in trouble.

Because like we can't keep up with phone calls. We can't control the customer service. I can't control my fulfillment center. So I had it all. Like I had the call center I was overseeing in-house. I had the fulfillment center overseeing in-house. Trying to do it all. Trying to understand logistics, shipping, like all these different departments. You built like 20 businesses, yeah. I built 20 different businesses. And I realized real quick I'm not a CEO.

I'm not a manager. I suck at that. Like I suck at being all that. I'm not COO. The best thing I'm at is building a funnel and, you know, striking gold. Everything else is there. You know, I create problems for everybody. And then it's up to the team to kind of fix that. And so, you know, I learned, you know, all the dust settles kind of thing. Like one thing I learned was I can't, I don't do a good job at controlling it and managing it. So I need to outsource it.

Somebody who does this already is AJ Cabani. AJ Cabani is the owner of As Seen on TV ads. And so does all those. So I talked to a few people that worked with him in the past. I was like, so how does AJ do it? Because he's in the same business as me. Launches a product, has huge scale. He calls them blockbuster products. But then it might fall. Like the next TV ad doesn't work. It dies off, like whatever. Like he's running that same cyclical business that I think I'm in. I'd love to structure my business around his. Come to find out, he has...

scales. He has levers. So he's able to increase call centers. He's able to decrease call centers. He's able to increase shipping, decrease shipping all by just outsourcing. I was like, that is genius. So I fired everybody. I fired everybody. Um, I called Alex from OZ. I was like, Hey bro, um, I got 10,000 square foot building. I'm paying 10 grand a month for plus, uh, uh,

Internet's a thousand. I said, I'm 11 grand of money just in debt, just from the call center guys, like leaving them. I was like, how do I, what do I do? And he had, he had the answer, you know, lucky for me, he had the answer. And he goes, dude, I had the same issue with my gyms. He's like, I had three gyms. Just, just go down to the landlord and tell them that you're going bankrupt. If they want the bankruptcy lawyer's card, give it to them. But they're, they're in line. And, um, or you can leave peacefully. I said, did that work? He goes, it worked for all of them.

I'll try it. So I go down there, I'm all teared up. And, uh, I was like, Hey, bad news. Um, we're going bankrupt. And they're like, Oh, I said, yep. Can't afford to rent. So I can either leave peacefully or, um, you can like, you know, come after me and get in line for your money. Cause I was in a three-year contract and they're like, we'll just let you go.

Signed off and out I went. Did you win something crazy? Saved me 300 grand. Same thing happened to me. When my call center crashed, everything fell apart. I had like three years on the lease. I had like 700 something thousand dollars. I held the guy. Hired a bankruptcy lawyer. He asked me, he's like, how much money can you afford? And I was like, I got a hundred bucks in my pocket. He took it, put it in his pocket. He's like, I'll meet you tomorrow at the thing. So he showed up and went to the landlord and, uh,

And he walked in and I was like, this is my lawyer. And he like, Oh, I got all postured. Like I'm trying to sue him. And then he's like, I'm his bankruptcy lawyer. He's in screw. Like he's in so much trouble. And same thing. He's like, he's going to like, but on and on and on. And, and the landlord sent me, like, let me go. And we left and packed all stuff that night left.

And that was it. So that's crazy. I didn't know that story, but I did the exact same thing. So there, if you know other value from this, like, that's how you have a lease. And it was true for me. I was like, it probably sounds the same to you. Like we were at SpotRank. We were going to have to, and had that not happened, I would have had to go bankrupt. But because we got out of it, I was like, Oh yeah. Oh, I've been done. I can breathe.

Yeah. Now, like a small scale, there's 10. We actually, you know, they asked me the same thing, like, how much can you afford? And I was like, well, I kind of still need an office. So they actually had a small room that we got for like a thousand bucks. So we downsized to that with them still. But then, you know, we were out after the two years. But like, so they still made money from us. But I told them, like, I can't pay you what I'm paying you. And I'd rather leave peacefully. No holes in the wall. Like, don't get destructive. Like, just leave it as it is. They'd be better off.

And they were totally agreeable that so it worked out. And of course in their position, like that's what they would want anyways. Like they don't want me to like not leave. And then they go to, you know, jury and try to fight. Like it's just easier to sign it off. So,

It worked for the better. But at the end of the day, like that was just like one of those little things that you get from, you know, a soundboard or a board of advisors or your peers that you're like, Hey, I'm in trouble. You know, like I think a lot of us, we don't want to expose ourselves and like say, Hey, I'm in so much trouble. Like I'm going in debt. Like I'm losing money. Like we don't look bad, like ego wise. Right. But when you do, when you become vulnerable and you have these, you know, real life talks, that's when the real help comes, you know, like, Oh dude, like you just said, like, how

I've been there. Ha! Hey! It's fun to laugh at now, but here's what you do. Here's the game plan, and you'll be great at it. And that's exactly what I did, and it worked. And so I was, like, thankful for him. I called him. I was like, dude, that was amazing. He was like, yeah, dude. And I was like, okay.

That's so cool. That's cool. Do you love the Marketing Secrets Podcast, but you don't love listening to the ads? If so, we've got great news. We just launched an ad-free version of the podcast you can get subscribed to for just $4.99 per month. As one of our premium members, you'll have ad-free content that seamlessly integrates with your favorite podcast listening app like Spotify or Apple. This is an exclusive offer just for our fans of the Marketing Secrets Podcast to help give you an even better listening experience. If you want to get the premium version, all you got to do is look at the show notes, watch

or the episode description to get a link for how you can upgrade to premium. I'm curious for you after, so this whole thing happens, right? You have this, the success of like, I'm the genius. Like took us a, I figured out internet marketing. Yeah. Really what I thought you had that success and then crashes. I don't know about you, but like so much of your identity usually gets tied into the success of just like, I am successful. And then it crashes. Like I am a, it failed. Therefore I'm a failure. And a lot of people never recover from that. I'm curious what you had to go through mentally, uh,

from that because i because you have come back and you have done a ton of amazing stuff we'll talk about next but like what was that like that transition like just psychologically for you dude i i crashed hard and um i didn't want to tell myself i was crashing hard like i get a little teary-eyed uh so two things kind of happened like back to back and it was just like here's a gut punch and then while you're down here's another one you know

So the first thing that happened was the affiliates. The affiliates went to a different offer. We had the G700 offer. The other ones are out there. And what they were doing was they were doing what's called black hat offers. So, I mean, good for them, right? Like whatever. What they did was if you bought five flashlights, the upsell, don't do this. The upsell said, yes, I want five battery kits, right?

you know, let's say 20 bucks each. So I was like a hundred dollars, right? The no button, no button goes. No. So big letters. No, I just want one. So it's still a yes button to

disguised as a no button. Oh, shady, shady. And I was like, that's genius. Like, that is amazing that they're doing that. But I was like, the chargeback they're going to get is just, you know, crazy. So I don't know how they survived, but they were growing. They were taking all of our traffic. So they're taking $500,000 a day of traffic and growing. So the chargebacks were never catching the growth, right? So they were paying like $120 a conversion, just irrational money.

unimaginable, like how's they've impossible numbers, but they're doing it through black hat offers. Right. So we couldn't compete. And that's, that's what really hurt us is they took all of our traffic.

funny enough is i was at an event in las vegas called shot show and uh mag light was there you know mag light like police mag light like you know knock you across the head old mag light they had a booth i had a little name tag on i go over to him i was like bryce i'm just curious like you know they're another they're a massive flashlight company huge brand and i walk over to him i was like hey man

look at his flashlights i was like i don't see uh i don't see the g700 tactical flashlight anywhere you got one of those he goes ha the g700 tactical flashlight that thing's a joke i was like oh so you heard of it oh have we heard of it i was like wow like i got mag light looking at us like that's that was pretty incredible so i was like just kind of a cool ego thing that i got to see like i

Bet you wish you would have done it. We made the big time. Yeah. So the first – there's actually three things. So the first thing that hit was the affiliates took our traffic, right? So now we're in this descending ledger. And then your chargebacks start passing. Chargebacks pass. So the chargebacks catch to us. And we had no, like, metrics. Like, I don't know what I was doing. Like, I was making money. Or I thought I was. But, yeah, the chargebacks hit. What happens if you don't understand, like –

You have to be a blow certain chargeback ratio, like 1% or below. Right. And so as you're growing, it's easy, but all of a sudden your sales cut in half and then you get what would have been 0.5 chargebacks pops to one because you have less volume for the, for the, cause it's always leading one month. Right. Like that's, that's how that can happen. So, yep. That's how it happens.

1% is threshold, right? You start getting looked at over one. And that's when they show on your merchant accounts. That's when you lose your business. If you're not careful, you can lose your ability to ever process money in the future. You get on a TMF list, which means terminated merchant file. You can't get a merchant account. You can't sell stuff in the future. It's scary. No, I'm not on the list. I am. Are you? Yeah. From this? Crazy. So I got on what's called Match TSF, I think. I've never heard of that. Match. So yeah, so basically what happened was...

was this was before Stripe had a phone number. Now Stripe actually has people who you can call. But this is before that. This is when they're kind of like starting, right? They became like that company. And...

So chargebacks surpass the sales. And it went from like 1% to 3% to 7% to 10%. We were at 10% chargebacks on our Stripe account. And I remember the phone rings. And I answered. I was like, hello. They go, this is Stripe. I was like, oh, you guys got a phone number? Yeah.

About time. About time. Well, it comes under whatever. Unidentified. Unidentified. And so I was like, oh, okay. See how this goes. And they're like, yeah, well, we've been reviewing your account and we're going to put a 100% hold on all your money. You can still transact. But we're keeping it. We're going to keep it all. I was like, well, that doesn't make any sense. They're like, ah. So you can't go find mids that can scale like Stripe can overnight. So we went to Marisha and we got one under Marisha and they took a 20% discount.

reserve. So that was hard. So like all these things are happening, right? Like it's kind of hard to like pinpoint each story, but they're all happening on top of each other. So basically stripes coming in chargebacks are high. You go on what's called a watch list. So we're on the watch list for Visa and MasterCard.

We surpassed 10% and Stripe's on the phone. We're on a Zoom call with Stripe. There's this girl, young girl, hate you. And basically she's sitting there on the Zoom call. I'm like pleading. I'm like, we are like a young business. We have no idea what we're doing. And we're trying to sell. I'm like, we're doing everything we can.

And so she's like, well, we got to hold your money. I said, they're holding 1.6 million. Affiliates want their money. Brokers want their money. I was like, we got to, we got to whatever. She goes, I go, how are we going to get out of this? How do we, when do we get our money back? She goes, when you fall under 10% or whatever. And she's like, we don't know what to do. This is what Stripe is saying. We don't know what to do. We have never seen metrics like yours.

Okay. She goes, we have taken this to our aggregators. I think is what she called them. And we have three of them best in the world who have looked at your account and they can't figure out a calculation to figure out what to do. And I'm like, so you're saying that we broke the internet. So I was like, okay, so we're holding all your money. Okay, cool. We can still refund, right? No. I was like, oh, well, so if we can't refund, what happens when I press the refund button?

It don't go nowhere. Okay, so then hold up. If I can't refund somebody and they don't get a refund, they charge back. What are they going to do? Oh, charge back. But aren't I in trouble for chargebacks? Yeah, you're at like 10% right now, but you're not allowing me to refund. You're going to have to send them a check. You want me to send them a check? You know how many checks I'm going to have to send out per day to refund these people? And then what stops them from charging back once they get the check? And then they get double the money. She's like, not my problem.

Hate you. So you're the worst. I'm doomed, bro. So then then they call. And I was like, hey, listen, like we need to open up the refunds because we are going to keep getting charged back. It's like you're putting us in a bad situation. They're like, OK, why are us 100 grand? You got one point six million dollars of my money. You want me to wire you another hundy? And they're like, yeah. I was like, what makes me want to trust that? Because you're already holding one point six. They're like, well, that's the only way we're going to allow you to refund. We're going to keep a reserve.

So reserve on the reserve, reserve on the reserve. So we start wiring them a hundred grand.

twice uh twice a week start wiring 100 grand 100 grand 100 grand it's just like you the accounts were just depleting and not fun and so we're trying to you know pay peter rob paul like we're robbing two pauls to pay one peter and stripes like no and doesn't know what to do call center comes in guy goes guy goes hey there's a lawyer on the phone wants to know where his money's at

I was like, we got lawyers chasing money now for a flashlight? Like, what is this? Hello, this is Trey, CEO, proud owner of Lumitak. And how can I help you? I need to know right now where my money is at. My client needs their money. I was like, how much money are you talking about? They're like 300 grand. I was like, man, what? We sell flashlights that are $56. Like, I don't think we collected 300 grand. She's like, is this not Stripe?

This is a, this is a limit tech. We sell flashlights. We use Stripe, but this ain't Stripe. Well, your number's on Stripe.

Hmm. That's funny because last I checked, Stripe don't got no phone number. So I Google, I'm like on the phone. I Google Stripe, uh, Google. And you know how that has the business thing that comes on the right hand side. So Stripe, California shows our number. So many people had charged back and complained and Googled Stripe that where it says suggest a phone number. So many people thought we were Stripe.

So they put our phone number in Stripe. So now I'm getting lawyer calls of people demanding their money from Stripe as if I'm Stripe. So I call up Stripe. I'm like, hey, welcome back to the show. I got yours. Want their money? Oh, what a debacle, bro. So this is I must hate you. They like hated me, hated me.

They didn't know what to do with me. That's crazy. I'm sure. I'm sure. So they put us on match, which is a big picture of you on the wall. They do not. I guarantee I'm in their playbook. Like when they probably hire people, they're like, here's what we look for. It's like someone calling a Ponzi scheme. It's like a Llewellyn scheme. Yeah. I'm probably like a Llewellyn, you know, like here's what the Llewellyn. I'm a term of some sort. I would not be surprised. That would be fun to know. And so that's going on.

kicking the butt right i'm getting kicked every which direction i got call centers i got uh uh i got ship station that's 70 000 i got this kid like we're hired dude i'm hiring juvies okay to to ship this stuff out like i remember saturday i'm like we're gonna kick 10 000 orders out today we're gonna have a lot of fun doing it and um we go there i get pizza for everybody we did 10 000 orders i log in a ship station and it shows 72 000 orders in the queue

So we sent 10. We grew two. We can't, I can't keep up. I cannot keep up. And so now the affiliates are going away. New offers are coming out. People are moving. Stripe is charging us back. Visa and MasterCard are calling now. And when they call, they want money.

Visa wanted 300 grand, MasterCard wanted two. So $500,000 in fees. So what they do is for every chargeback that you get, Stripe makes that 30 bucks or 15 or whatever it is now, that goes straight to Stripe. Like that's money for Stripe. So they love chargebacks. But they don't like when you go over 1% because then Visa and MasterCard start asking questions to Stripe saying, hey, are you keeping track on these guys? We're at 10, okay? We're 10X. And so what happens then is Visa applies a chargeback.

To us, a fee, which is $100. MasterCard applies a fee to us, $100. So now, instead of a chargeback costing me $30, it's $130. So now, I'm having to send wires to Visa. I'm having to send wires to MasterCard. I'm having to send wires to Stripe. I'm depleting. How about I just bankrupt this thing and run away and hide? Dude, I get to live tomorrow. Like, that's what I lived on. And then the sheriff walked in. And the sheriff...

That'd be a good headline for this. And then the sheriff walked in. Then the sheriff walks in. And I'm telling you, that packet was probably that thick. Inch thick. Lays it on me. And I was like, what's this? And he's like, you're getting sued. I said, for what? And I just start to turn the pages. And it has everybody's name, everybody's address. They did their research. And it's of this company that...

Basically holds the rights to the light bulb we had in the flashlight, which was a patented piece. And we showed it as if we showed it accidentally as if we had that light. But it turned out we didn't.

But the only place that we, ironically, we never, I didn't even know what this company was until they showed up on my desk. What happened was we took a video from China, China that we used on our, on our sales page. In two seconds of that video, it showed their logo on the light. And they took that as evidence of, Hey, uh, you owe us money. So like you aren't selling our product, but you say you are. So we're going to take a, I forgot what they call it. Infringement of some sort.

So we're going to sue you. We're going to sue you for $2 million is what they wanted. So, Trace, come to daddy. Like, I got this tree that grows money and it just plows. So I got Visa. I got MasterCard. I got Stripe. I got refunds. I got now this lawsuit for $2 million. And that, I think, was the breaking point for me because...

I'm looking at this $2 million check that I'm going to have to write to this company because we accidentally used their logo. They didn't even write a cease and desist. Like we didn't know they existed until they wrote. They thought that we were everybody. They thought we were all the affiliate offers. So everybody who copied us, they thought we were them too. So they thought they had a big fish, right? Which we were none of that. We were the opposite. Little did they know, like our books were just like on fire. And so, so all the next year, the next year,

I was depressed because all I could think is I'm working for them now. I'm working for them. Like I owe these people $2 million. I don't have $2 million. Um, don't even have that. And like, how am I, how am I supposed to pay them? I'm going to go work for them. Like they're going to seize my checks. I don't know. You know, maybe they're going to seize my house. They're going to take, they're going to take something. And so I couldn't get out of my head where I,

I'm working for them now. And I got these new handcuffs that didn't know existed. And it was, it was, it was demoralizing, you know, like I, like the spark wasn't there anymore. The fun wasn't there anymore. Um, it was totally gone just because of this, this freaking, you know, huge monumental success to where it all came crashing down. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm curious thing. Cause like, I've seen people who had success and lose it. Like there's like subconsciously so scared to succeed again because of the pain that would cause like, yeah. Like how did you get to the other side of that? I'm trying to think of why, how did I come out of it? Like it was two years, maybe three. Um,

Because then I got in my head and I'm trying to build offers, but I'm not excited about it. I'm scared. Again, $30 million education, which is great. I still use that to this day. All the principles, all the theories, all the things that we learned, we use and utilize and we've become so much of a better company. It's an old company, new company now, but I've carried those through and we run so efficient. It's fun, energetic. We're not doing anything illegal. All this stuff is a lot of fun.

Yeah. And so that's the change, but that's, I mean, that's 10 years past. Right. So for three years, I was definitely down in my roots. Um, you know, I think, I think a good thing for me was when we settled the lawsuit, like that was kind of like the end weight off. That was definitely a weight getting rid of the office was a weight lifted. Um, getting rid of the call center from, uh, was a weight lifted. And so like all these anchors, I guess we're getting cut. Like my boat was sinking or I guess it was sunk.

And these anchors, I probably had like 12 anchors holding me down. And little by little, I guess those anchors were being cut and released. And then I kind of came up and like breathed some air and then started to set sail. You know, I didn't catch much wind for a couple of years because what started to get into my head again was, am I just a has-been? You know, is this something that got lucky? Yeah.

kind of hit it on, you know, I built a funnel, a funnel week, a funnel week and like one exploded. Like was that, was that just a fluke? Was that a fluke? Was, was Trey really smart? Did Trey really figure out the world of, of e-com or just luck, you know? And cause you get a, I got a little fame from it. Like I got a little fame. I got some, you know, some, some, some good old boys and like stuff like that. But

I definitely got down about it, you know, and I'm trying to think like, what was like, what was the big like turn of events for me? I think, I think mainly was, you know, finding a new market that I could sell to because we were selling in the gun space and we were mentoring with Jay Abraham and I paid him 10 grand a month for three hours of his time each month. And we flew to California and,

every month we flew in flew out same day and we did 12 sessions with jay and they were great sessions and i took each session by heart i went back to the office i did a month's of work went back like jay can't get to work like nothing was working for the gun space no one wanted to run gun ads newspaper and stuff like that so i talked to jay on the 12th week or 12th month with him and i was like jay like dude i've been doing everything you've told me i've done everything he goes trey

you're a great marketer. You know exactly what to do. You know how to do it. You're just in the wrong space. He goes, you're trying to go up current when you could just go down. And I was like, huh, that's interesting. And so on that flight home, you know, I was like, wow, that's incredible. Like that's an internet. Like, how do I, how do I, how do I stop what was called the NGO? Yeah.

And this was the second call. Alex has had some pivotal moments for me, I guess. So second call I made to Alex Ramosi, probably talked to him twice in my life. And these are the two times. But I called him up and I was like, I think we're just talking. And I was talking about his business. And I think you could hear...

just my me being down or I was like, just like, dude, like nothing's working. Like what I do, he's like, throw it, toss it. It's not working. Let go of it. I was like, easy for you to say. Like I got systems, I got, you know, subscriptions, I got softwares, I got employees. Like he's like, just, I mean, he's like, you can kill it or you can die with it. And I was like, Ooh. And, uh, I was like, I guess we're going to kill. And so the next weeks are when, uh,

I went and had tough meetings and had to fire. I gave Bryson the other half. So I was, I only had so much guts to do, but I, I only, I, I fired, um, the call center and Bryson fired, uh, the warehouse. And I remember, uh,

We were already paying out of our personal accounts. We were depleting our business account. Depleted. Now we're paying out of our personal accounts of what our savings was. And so they don't know that, right? Which is... That's fine. But when I went to fire the call center...

You know, obviously they see you as a success. Like you're the one who's making all the money. You're good. You drive the nice car, but they don't see the actual realness of what's actually happening. And so I was like, for your team, you have to like hold it together. Yeah. Hold together. Yeah. Yeah. Motivate him. You do. Yeah. That's what you're there for. You're a leader. And so I remember this one guy, you know, he's like, you know, it must be nice to be you because you get to be here and stay here and make your money. But I have to now go find a new job.

And that hurt because I knew like I was paying him out of my own personal account and we gave them like two weeks severance. Like we'd have to do that. There's no Missouri law that says, hey, when you fire someone, give them two weeks severance. Like we did that out of the kindness of our heart, out of our personal bank accounts, because I was looking after them more than myself. And that's what that's like. That was the dagger, right? Like, oh, good for you. Like, but you don't even realize, bro, like I'm whole. Like I don't have anything. Like I'm giving you all that I have. I'm emptying my pockets for you. And that's what you treat me with.

hurts, you know? So like letting all that go and then just really kind of getting close with, as you call them, the inner circle, talking to people who are successful in another business and just hearing their excitement, um, and being motivated through them, you know, through vicariously through them, I think really, um, helped me is just reconnecting, being re-energized, hearing the success that they're having and being like, dang, like,

all right, it's time to go back to work. And so in the last four years, you know, I've gone back to work again. So let's talk about last four years. I don't want you to give all the specific offers, but I've been watching a lot of the offers you're rolling out post flashlight, post all this kind of stuff. Um, can Trey do it again? Yeah. And so I'm curious, one of them I think was the funniest one. Cause Heath is the copywriter that works on my team now, but you worked a long time and he was like Monday. It was like, yeah, you know, uh, Trey's butter, butter knife offer or something. I was like, what are you talking about? He's like, yeah, the butter offers killing. I'm like,

a butter knife. I'm like, what are you talking about? And he showed me the funnel and I was like,

Like, what the crap is Trey doing? So can you talk about some of the offers you're doing just to give people a glimpse of like the kind of e-commerce stuff that you're doing now that's been fun, that's exciting, that you're kind of playing with today? So a mastermind client of ours, Wes, was like, you know, you're the king of gadgets, of widgets. And I was like, oh, that's kind of a cool title. You know, like somebody used to call me Mr. On It. Lost that title because I got sued by everybody. So then I became the king of widgets.

So I just something about me, like I just love the art of selling and I don't want to be stuck to one product. Like I don't want to be stuck to, uh, you know, fishing or a certain niche. Like I want to be like, Oh, I can sell whatever. So that way as a company, we can be a speedboat. So I can make a quick change versus a, uh, uh, uh, a cruise ship that takes three miles to make a turn. Right? So I always look at our businesses like, how do we be a speedboat make changes? So that's with going with whatever product is working now that's sellable and that we can scale it.

That's our business is we now have the infrastructure in place to take on a scalable product at large and have it do great, but also take care of the customers, um, take care of the mids, make sure chargebacks are under 1% and make sure everybody's getting taken care of. Like we've built all that now because of the last six years, you know, previous to four. And, um, so yeah, one of the, one of the, uh, uh,

you know, products was the better butter spreader, better, better butter spreader, better, better spreader. Cause it spreads better, better, better. And so, uh, we did that one. That was, that one's a good one. It's still alive. Uh, that one's still cooking. Uh, and scraping 2020 is the, uh, ornament one, Christmas, my entire family. Every year we put up on a tree. We still have them. So, so right now this podcast is in 2024. Yeah. And I, uh, I wear, I, you know, I'm dressed up today, but I'm wearing short shirts and shorts and t-shirt every day.

Yeah. And Jen, my wife, is like, hey, we need to take your jackets down and get them hemmed down at this really nice high-end seamstress. So I'll take them down. So I take them down. I'm walking through their back hallway. This is midsummer. Walking back through the hallway. And you know, like, when you see, like, a ClickFunnels logo, like, you got that rim. Like, oh, ah! Yeah.

It's the Christmas ornament. It's a freaking Christmas ornament. These are like 2021, right? Like, yeah, 2020. No, 2020. Yeah. Because it's the year. So I'm like, where'd you get that? He's like, huh?

You know, I can't remember. I was like, I am pretty certain that I sold you that and you bought it for me. That is why, like, like you would never think that the person buying those Christmas ornaments is the guy who owns a seam, a seamstress, uh, play, you know, like a big company. Like people just got a kick out of it. Like it was a gag. Those who don't know, it was really cool. It's like you'd sign up for the Christmas or 2020 and have like, had

It had toilet paper rolls and masks and stuff. And you could say, like, how many kids do you have in your family? How many dogs? How many cats? And it was like – anyway, you did a whole interview on ClickFunnels Radio walking through it with Dave. It was insane. But yeah, we bought that whole thing. So my entire family has got one. So the Christmas tree, my wife hoards ornaments every year. We collect them. Then we keep adding. So these trees are just covered in the last 20 years of ornaments. So all those are in our tree every year until we die. So yeah, we've got them still, which is amazing. It's a cool ornament.

So cool. It's cool. That, uh, that hit that we did three and a half million, uh, with that ornament. Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas. And I think, you know, like we were lost for sure before that, um, we were doing masks. So we, we brought in KN95 masks. Uh, but of course, like, you know, with that art of like new products, like masks are a different product. There's always the cons that come with the product, like the things you never think about. So when we brought in KN95s, we were the first, like we were the first to land masks, uh,

And to kind of rewind that to like bring your brain back, like masks weren't available. We were bringing in almost like, you know, uh, I don't know, like, I don't know how to like,

describe it but like masks that were saving lives you know that people needed these and i remember delivering them to the eos emergency operating center in st louis and they go how did you get masks in st louis before our government got masks in and i was like it's a good question connections and she's like well it's impressive and we took these masks in they paid us 30 grand out of the you know eos company like we made we made good money on it and um

Two days later, I get a call and she's like, hey, we took your mask down to the fire department and they got this like ventilator and they tested your mask and it leaks. It doesn't work. We need a refund. Like that sucks. And so we had this huge business plan. Like people were calling me from companies you and I don't know exist, like military operational companies. Like it was wild. Like who you with? Where are you from? Where are you located?

Can I come? Like wild. And then of course, their number is gone now. But now I have masks that I can't sell to the government. And we brought over 200,000 of them. So what I do, I go back to my roots. Your root is, you know, build a webinar, make a million before you make another one. My root is build a funnel. And so I built a KN95 model. And you know who I called?

Uncle Bernard. I called Uncle B. And I said, hey, bro, I got an offer. And he's like, what's the offer? I was like, KN95, man. He's like, holy cow. He goes, yes, let's go. It was the worst looking funnel I've ever built in my life because it was made so fast. Dude, it's so like bananas because it was people were in need. You know, yeah.

Who's the guy who always talks about like, I don't want, you know, the one thing I want of an audience is I want a starving audience. Oh, Gary Halbert. Gary Halbert says that, right? I want a starving audience. And dude, that's what I had. K95s, I just, hey, you want a K95? People knew the news was selling my product for me. And then,

on Fox News. I'm on CNN News. I'm on MSNBC. I'm on Yahoo News. Like anywhere you went was like, you need masks. Want to buy a mask from Trader Willem? Yep. Buy 10. And I got people on renewals. Like people were like, I was like, you want 10 masks a month? 20 masks a month? Yes. And we sold through 200,000 so fast to where...

We flew to California and where this guy bought 6 million masks, couldn't give them to the dentist offices that he was going to sell them to. I bought them for pennies on the dollar. And so he had a supply. So I was like, hey, I'll take 100,000 at a time. So he became my supplier. So now no longer have to get him from China and worry about all this stuff from flying. He just supplied me and I sent him through the funnel.

So it's KN95 masks. And then we made a mockery of it with the Christmas ornaments. And then, yeah, then we started doing kitchen gadgets, which is the Better Butter Spreader. That's crazy. So, man, we're probably close to time, but this has been insanely cool. And I want to talk about – so you came to Boise today because –

Well, first off, of all the people in our community, you're the person who's had the most success with e-commerce funnels. You have a unique way you do it. You're a great teacher. You're fascinating. And you've been here this week filming an entire course for all of our ClickFunnels members, One Funnel Away, which a lot of you guys know we've done One Funnel Away, where I've taught people how to be experts and how to sell. And this is like One Funnel Away e-commerce edition, showing people how to do that. And I'm pumped to see. I've been kind of like...

uh, spying agent filming stuff. I'm, I'm so excited to see the end thing, but, uh, this is a course that people are gonna get for free when they're trying to click funnels, which is a big gift for everybody that you're doing for the community and helping them. But we talked about just, and don't go deep into just explaining kind of the, the, the things you're talking about in this course. I know like how to find products, stuff like that. Just people have an idea of like everything that they're going to get when they, when they plug into the click funnels into the training. So when we started, you know, when you called me and said, Hey, we do this, um,

I put a lot of thought into what is it that we can give people that will create quote-unquote overnight success. How do we get them to where they need to be to sell a product online? So I went through... This stuff comes easy to me now. So it's hard for me to be like, oh, this is what people are struggling through. So it really took a lot of time to go back to my old ways and say, okay, what brought me here? And what were the anchors that led me to where I'm today? And so...

I came to you and I was like, you know, I think the easiest way we do this is very simple is we create and show them how to do one product.

one offer, one traffic source. We keep it super simple, super concise, super tight. And that way there's no distractions. You know, life's not going to get in the way. Opportunity is not going to get in the way. Confusion is not going to get in the way. They're going to know exactly what to do from start to finish, step-by-step templates, tutorials, Napoleon, Napoleon. He comes in amazing. He's amazing. You'll find out soon. And dude, like within 10 days,

You got market selected. You know what? You know, guaranteed, you know what product to sell. Okay. Third is you have the offer written beautifully, by the way, for you in every market. And then you have the order form done for you, converted the best order form we got. And lastly, traffic, like all that punched into a 10 day, you know, video series where you,

You know from every day you're celebrating small wins to get to those big wins. And that big win is, you know, one, selling your first product maybe, or maybe you're selling products now and you're selling more of them, to then building a business over the next 90 days.

and then building wealth, generational wealth over the next year. And that's really what encompasses, I think, in that training. So cool. You've re-inspired me. I'm going to be re-filming the One Funnel way, like the expert side of things. And then my goal is compete. So we're going to find out the e-commerce side of ClickFunnels members versus the experts, see who can have the most fun, which will be fun. But then on top of that, not only are you going to get this 10-day training program to help them figure out all those kind of things, you've also committed, I've committed, we're going to start going live once a week,

just to do open Q&A for all the members to help figure out their stuff. So if they're stuck, I can't figure out a product, Trey, they can jump on and ask you a question or my funnel's not converting or whatever and we're going to have the ability to literally do one-on-ones with me and you. Me on the expert side, you on the e-comm side. Yeah. Working with people, which I'm, first off, so grateful you're willing to do that. Second off, it's going to be so helpful for people because I think a lot of times that's the thing. People need like

It's like one little thing that gets them from like, you know, it's like you had the call with Hermosi or whatever it is that like gets you unstuck. And now they have a chance every single week to have that with you, which is really cool. Yeah. You're not alone, right? Like I think a lot of people...

go through e-commerce alone because they don't get support from the spouse. They don't get support from the family. Like, oh, that's a great idea. Ha ha ha. Jimmy's going to create his job. Ha ha ha. Like there's no support. And I think that's the beautiful thing that's happening here. And this is the only software company I've ever seen it done with is somebody who actually cares more about their students and their clients than they do themselves.

You know, I think that's a beautiful thing where you now know and understand that when you join and you commit and you're all in is not only are we building an e-com business together, but we're building a business together. We're building a foundation together. We're building wealth together. And yeah, like you said, you know, you get to show up to these calls, ask questions, overcome hurdles, overcome roadblocks. And, you know, sometimes it is, it is that like one little thing, one little sentence that changes the trajectory of your life.

You know, one example I was given was, you know, when SpaceX, you know, launches their rocket, they point at the moon and let's say they're going to go, you know, launch a satellite on the moon or something. They point to the moon

But in between the launch and the landing, that rocket makes over 3,000 micro corrections. 3,000. If it misses one, it's off by two miles. And I think that's the same thing with e-com. You know, like we know what to do. We know to build the offer. We know to build the order form. We know to do the product. And it's like...

If you're off by one correction, that one micro, you might be off a lot. So you need guidance. Don't do it by yourself. They're not building a SpaceX by themselves, and neither are we. We're building funnels together. So it's going to be a lot of fun. I'm really excited about it. I'm pumped, man. Yeah, when we started talking about it and it came together, I'm like, this is amazing. So there's no one better to teach this than you and have you part of that. We're doing ClickFunnels. I'm excited because it's interesting. ClickFunnels right now, the first decade of ClickFunnels, I'd say it was like –

15% people were e-commerce, 85% were on the expert side. And now we're probably 70%, 30%. Yeah, 30% e-com. And my bet is in the next year, year and a half, we're going to be 50-50. And I think e-com will actually overtake the expert side because as we're growing and scaling, that's where the masses are coming from. People want to learn and understand this part. And they've only seen like, here's how it's fun, Shopify, or things like that, which...

is good, but it's not great. Right. What you're showing is like, you don't need to have this huge store and all this kind of stuff. It's like one product, one traffic source, one offer. And, and, and you do it and you want to funnel away to the first one, the second one, then, you know, who knows when your flashlight offer hits and this time, hopefully do it with the stuff trade is going to teach you. So you don't have to stress out about like, yeah, all the things, the sheriff and the $30 million education for free. Like that's what you're getting, you know? And that's incredible. Like all the things that I've learned, I teach and show you how to do and what not to do. And you get it, you get it for free.

Yeah. That's pretty incredible. It's awesome. Not many people are doing that, bro. That's insane. Well, by the time this interview is live, my guess is this will be inside a ClickFunnels. So if you're an existing ClickFunnels member, log in and then click on One Funnel Away eCommedition. Click the button and boom, you'll be put into the track and you can start going through everything with Trey. And in 10 days from now, you could be done. You could have your first funnel done and launched and live and then, yeah, do what you did. If the first doesn't work, do a second one and a third one and then eventually one hits and then it's like off to the races. Yeah. See?

I appreciate you. Thanks for creating this. Thanks for being on the interview. Thanks for being vulnerable and willing to share that side of it. Most people don't. I'm grateful for that as well. You're awesome, man. Thanks for hanging out. Hope you guys enjoyed this interview. Go hang out with Trey every single week here inside of ClickFunnels. See you guys soon.