The Moth Radio Hour: Live from New York City
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This autumn, fall for Moth Stories as we travel across the globe for our mainstages. We're excited to announce our fall lineup of storytelling shows from New York City to Iowa City, London, Nairobi, and so many more. The Moth will be performing in a city near you, featuring a curation of true stories. The Moth mainstage shows feature five tellers who share beautiful, unbelievable, hilarious, and often powerful true stories on a common theme. Each one told reveals something new about our shared connection.

To buy your tickets or find out more about our calendar, visit themoth.org slash mainstage. We hope to see you soon. From PRX, this is the Moth Radio Hour. I'm Jay Allison, producer of this radio show. And this time we're bringing you stories from a moth mainstage we held in New York City. Our host that night was C.J. Hunt. C.J. is a comedian and filmmaker. He has been a field producer on The Daily Show with Trevor Noah and The Rundown with Robin Thede.

CJ is also the director of The Neutral Ground, an award-winning documentary about monuments, memory, and breaking up with the Confederacy. So here's CJ live at the New York Historical Society. Welcome to the Moth, everybody. You're here! It's happening! No, you really are here. You're here. You're here.

I like to think about that a lot because New York is such like a busy city that all of us made it here on time for the show. And I think that's really incredible, right? You left your apartment on time. You had your keys, right? You made it down the stairs on the train, even though someone was coming up the wrong way. You made the B train. You got out here. You avoided the dog poop. You got to your seats. You're here. You're where you need to be. So in celebration of that, I want you to follow me. I want you to take a deep breath in. And I want you to turn to the person you came with.

And on three I want you to say, "We're here!" One, two, three. And if you're alone, you can just do it to yourself. "We're here!" Welcome. Welcome, welcome. We're just gonna have a really great night. Please welcome our first storyteller, Michaela Bly. Hello. So it's the last unit of the year I'm teaching third grade, and the last unit is the Oregon Trail. And I am prepared to have my students really live the Oregon Trail.

This is how I taught third grade. I would create a world and then run it like a puppet master. And a lot of those times, those worlds were goofy. Like, we would have always a game. We got letters from a stuffed animal rock band named Anticlea and the Howlers who were lost across the United States, and we were studying geography, so to help them, we had to study the states. We got letters from time machines. My characters had names like Cheesy De Pizza and Caesar Von Salad.

I was not a serious teacher. But now this is the Oregon Trail. This is a serious time and this is also a really complicated time in American history. But to be totally honest, I'm not sure I can get at the like historical and moral complexities of westward expansion with nine-year-olds. They have trouble taking the perspective of their little sister.

So I'm not really sure I can do that, but I know I can get at the gravity of it, right? This is pioneers trying.

2,000 miles across the United States, which weren't the United States yet, across the Rockies, leaving everything they know, risking everything they have, blizzards and hunger and all these things. And so at least I can get, it's really real, and at least I can get my kids to feel like it's really real. So I come to my class and I say, we're going to be doing the Oregon Trail. And this one smart aleck kid named Alex says, well, will it be a game? Because he knows it's always a game. And I say, yeah, but it's going to be a dangerous game.

And they're pretty psyched about that. So what I've planned is like a simulation. We're going to take on characters of pioneers, and we're going to travel the Oregon Trail on a wagon train. So first we have to choose names for our characters. I download and print the names of real people who died on the Oregon Trail. LAUGHTER

It's pretty authentic. And so they can have their first names, but they have to have last names like Chapman and Blunderfield, and Alex is now Alex Bacon. And then they have to choose occupations. And all the girls want to be pop stars. And I tell them, there were no pop stars on the Oregon Trail. Choose authentic occupations from the 1840s. So okay, so great.

They're farmers and they're gold miners and there's a couple of doctors and we're good. But before we start, I want them to feel what it really felt like to walk for that long. So I was here in Manhattan. I took them on a 40 block walk. It's about two miles.

It's not that long. It's long if you're a nine-year-old, I guess. And it's a beautiful day. You know, we're going up the west side. We're going up the Hudson. And Alex Bacon says to me, well, I wouldn't have had to walk. I would have ridden in the wagon. And I said, aha, no, no. Children never rode in the wagons. The wagons were for if there was someone sick or our supplies or if we had a piano. Because I have done my research. And then another kid says, well, I'm thirsty. And I say, well, there were no water fountains on the Oregon Trail.

And he says, "Well, there's a water fountain right there." And I think about the parent phone call I do not want to get about withholding water from a child, and I think fast and I say, "Ah, a stream. How fortunate. Let us partake."

And so we finally get back and we're hot and sweaty, but we're ready to go on our journey. And the way I've designed it is previously all of my games were just fiction. Like I would just write a letter and then they would respond and I would write another letter that night. I always knew what was going to happen. But now I want to play a little more dangerously because it was all luck what happened on the Oregon Trail, right? So...

I have designed a game of chance. I have combined, do you guys know the Oregon Trail video game? Fans, okay. I've designed, I've combined the Oregon Trail video game with Principles of Dungeons and Dragons.

The role-playing game with dice. So what we're going to do is every day I'm going to tell them what happened on the trail that day, they're going to make some choices about what they want to do, and then we're going to roll dice to see if they succeeded or failed. So I'll give you an example. We get to a river and they have to decide, do they want to pay a ferryman or do they want to ford their wagons? And they decide to ford their wagons. We roll to find out if their wagons sank or floated, that kind of thing. So it's easy. Great. All right. So the first day starts.

And I have this bonnet that I've sewn out of old upholstery material. And I put on this bonnet and I tell them, "I am Mary, your wagon train captain. We are all here for different reasons, but we will have to work together to get through the bad weather and the hunger and the wild animals that await us." And Alex Bacon says, "Excuse me, Mary. This is a dangerous game. Could we die?" And I was a little in character at that point. And I will also admit I wanted to take Alex down a peg. So I said, "Sure."

People died on the Oregon Trail all the time. Someone might die. And this shiver of excitement goes across my glass.

They liked my stuffed animal rock band, but they are into danger. And I know I'm not going to let anyone die. Like, I'm not going to let it get there, right? No one's going to die on the Oregon Trail. But the idea that someone might gets them wanting to come to social studies every day. So this is OK. So we're off. We're tracking our mileage. And we're rolling dice. And we're making tough choices. And at some point, I have them meet a snake oil salesman who offers to sell them an elixir that will make them stronger and faster and get to Oregon City quicker.

And something you need to know about nine-year-olds, a lot of them, pretty much all of them, don't know what snake oil salesmen are.

I say this to you and you know this is shorthand for like a con man, right? But to them it's just someone else they don't know about, like taxes. Like it's just a thing, like a grown-up thing. Okay, snake oil salesman. So they decide to buy the elixir because they want to go get there faster. And so we roll to see how much stronger and faster they got. And of course we all know the answer is none faster. It's snake oil. So I tell them, actually that was a con. You are throwing up for a day. You lose a day of travel.

And I think they're going to be really annoyed that they got slowed down, but they are psyched. They got to throw up in social studies. They're talking about it for days. My game is a hit. The problem is, every day before we start, someone says to me, "Is someone going to die today?"

Is someone going to die today? And I've been putting them off and putting them off, but my game is going so well, and we're getting towards the Rockies, and I figure, you know what, I'm going to give them just a brush with death. So I write out a bunch of possibilities for that day, and the next time someone asks me, is someone going to die today, I say, we have been lucky thus far, but the Rockies lie ahead, the most treacherous part of our journey. Who knows what might happen? So I put on the bonnet.

And that's what I did. I loved that action. And I set the scene for the morning. In the early morning light on a rocky mountain pass, a wagon hits a rock and is overturned. Someone is trapped beneath the wagon. Let us roll to find out who it is. I'm not proud of this. I take off the bonnet, and we have like a system of rolls to figure out. Different kids have different numbers, and I roll, and it's this little girl, Katie. I know.

Her Oregon Trail name is Catherine Chubbuck. She's a farmer. She's one of these kids who always has really messy hair and sounds like she's been smoking since she was three. And she has to come to the front of the class and I say, "Catherine Chubbuck, your legs have been trapped beneath the wagon. Roll to find out if you get free and what happens." And she rolls. And she gets free, but her legs have been infected. I wrote these possibilities.

And this is the first time I'm thinking, why did I write that possibility? This is getting really dark. And I say, Catherine Chubbuck, roll to find out if your infection gets better or worse. And she rolls, and it gets worse. And she looks at me and just goes, did I die? And as soon as she says it, I realize how much trouble I am in. I haven't written any more possibilities. I didn't think we would get this far. So what happens next?

Do we have a funeral on the side of the Oregon Trail for Katherine Chubbuck? Is that the parent phone call that I get for having traumatized a girl for killing her on the Oregon Trail? Bad teachers kill kids on the Oregon Trail.

And I am not a bad teacher, or so I thought. This is all the stuff that's happening in my head. I'm thinking so much about it. A lot of it is very existential. And then all of a sudden, from the back of the class, this little girl, Ellis, whose Oregon Trail name is Dr. Ellis Chapman, just goes, "Wait! I'm a doctor!" And I'm like, "Thank the Lord." Dr. Chapman brings her doctor back. She knows how to heal the wound. Ellis Chapman comes up to the front of the room.

I say the only way you roll to find out what happens, the only way you die is if you roll a six. That's the only way you die. The class is holding their breath. As Katie rolls, she does the lucky shake thing, and then someone just goes, "Shake 'em again." She shakes, and she rolls, and it's a three, and she survives. I know, my class is like the end of Apollo 13. Kids are throwing papers in the air, hugging each other.

And Ellis is hugging Katie and Katie's just going, "I almost died. I almost died." And I'm so glad we agreed to bring a doctor on the Oregon Trail with us. She couldn't hunt, but she was very useful. And the problem is, so that was great, the problem is we still have 720 miles to Oregon City. And I'm exhausted.

I can't remember a time before we were walking the Oregon Trail. And the next day, you know, I had all this stuff planned. The next day, I get to class. I put my bonnet on. I tell them, we hear animal noises in the bushes. And Alex Bacon is right on it. He goes, is it wild animals? Are we in danger?

And he says it and I realize they love the danger, I'm the one who doesn't want the danger. And I throw my plan out the window. It was wild animals and we were in danger actually, but I forget about that. I say no, it is a baby animal with a broken leg who we must adopt for the rest of the trip. And they all do the third grade baby animal noise, which is... And I say let us roll to find out what species of baby animal we will be adopting. Is it a baby bunny, a baby fox, or a baby wolf?

It's a baby wolf. They name him Yenny the Benny. They love him very much. And he follows us all the way to Oregon. And we get to Oregon in record time. I mean, forget pioneers walking. This is Amazon Prime two-day shipping to get to Oregon City. Nothing bad happens between the Rockies and Oregon City. And when we get there, we do, we homestead and we do our budget, so we do all that stuff. But we also make cornbread and we have a dance party to September by Earth, Wind & Fire, which is not historically accurate.

But that is the kind of Oregon Trail I want to be on at that point. So that's the Oregon Trail, but I have to tell you guys, about a year ago, I ran into Katie on the street on Broadway, and she's in ninth grade now. She looks exactly the same, except that she's been stretched, you know? And I recognized her right away, and she recognized me, and we hugged, and I said, how are you? And the first thing she said to me was, do you remember when I almost died on the Oregon Trail? LAUGHTER

And I said, "Yeah, Katie, I absolutely remember. Thank you." - Mikayla Bly. - Mikayla Bly was a classroom teacher for eight years, or 10 if you count substitute teaching. She's a two-time Moth New York City Grand Slam champion, and she's been teaching storytelling since 2011. Her solo show was The Secret Life of Your Third Grade Teacher.

To this day, Michaela still runs into former students and every single one of them remembers their lessons on the Oregon Trail. As for Michaela, she's been searching for her bonnet for years, but she says it's lost to the past.

Coming up, more stories from this live show in New York City. We forget a brief of the long way in which I thought a strange hand to hold. Someone strong but not bold about to tear down the wall.

The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts, and presented by PRX. This is the Moth Radio Hour from PRX. I'm Jay Allison, and we're bringing you a live event from 2017 at the New York Historical Society in New York City. The host for the show was C.J. Hunt. The theme of the night was Give Me Liberty. Give Me Liberty.

When I think about that theme, I get really excited because I remember that I'm going to move in a week and I am finally free of my lease with my current landlord. And our apartment is, this is officially my first year living in a New York apartment. And I've learned all the lessons that you learn when you're brand new to the city, you know, like the newbie beginner lessons.

And one lesson I've learned in our apartment is that every time that there's a maintenance problem with the apartment, my girlfriend and I are like suddenly thrust into some weird game show called "Is CJ a Man Yet?" And I don't know the rules of this show. The stakes are always like incredibly high for no reason.

And the challenges are always like, "We're gonna find out just how much sewage can pour into the apartment before CJ has the balls to call the landlord!" Like, those are the challenges. I didn't understand before moving here that apartment issues are relationship tests. You know, it's like, "How much do you love me? How much courage is in there?" Recently, some guys were smoking weed in our apartment. Not in our apartment, but in the lobby of our apartment. And the smoke was just coming in under the door.

And my girlfriend said to me the words that no coward wants to hear ever, which is, "You need to go talk to those men." Cowards in the audience, clap it up. It's okay. You're scared to clap. It's okay. You know where you are. You're like, "I'll just nod and..." You never want to hear that, "Go talk to those men." Because my first reaction is like the same as when I was on the schoolyard. I'm like, "I don't know those boys."

But I need to go talk to them. But you don't say that to your girlfriend. What you say is, "Of course, babe." Because that's the only thing you can say in that situation. Because even though I'm deathly afraid of conflict, if you are messing with the person I love, it's a problem. If you are making the woman I love uncomfortable in our home, you bet I'm going to come tell you something. So I said, "Babe, I'm going to go tell him something, all right? You don't worry." And I walked out, and I'm all confident. I was like, "Excuse me, gentlemen. I'm just trying to get by.

and just scooted to the mailboxes and then just checked my mail and was like, "Nothing? Okay, can I get back in? Have a fun day with the weed guys. Have a fun. Have a fun reefer smoke, guys." And I just wish that I was brave. You know, like I wish that I had the courage to be like, "Hey, this is a building. Don't do that in here." But I don't have that bravery, but I'm working on it.

And that's what I like about live storytelling shows, that feeling of we're all just working on it, right? We're all just trying to be braver versions of ourselves. And there's something about watching someone come up to the mic where you're like, "Yes, I want to be brave as well!" And we have a storyteller who, when asked about the last liberty that he took, told us that he doesn't take liberties.

He's just the type of rule follower that if he got stopped at a broken red light in the middle of the desert, he would die in his car. I'm glad it hasn't happened so that you can welcome to the stage Mr. Nathan Englander.

So, it's the middle 90s and a peace treaty gets signed between Israel and Jordan. And if you're already wondering what that has to do with a Jewish boy from Long Island, I've been spending an enormous amount of time in Israel and it really feels like a second home at this point and I've completely co-opted their culture. And...

Yes, everyone's excited about peace, but there's a second part, which is Jordan contains the ancient Nabataean city of Petra. And this is a huge part of Israeli culture, and there are legends, and there are dreams. Everyone just wants to see that ancient red rock. They want to see that desert city. I mean, there are songs about it, folk songs about it. There's just everything.

endless things connected to it and my favorite part is you know every few years a couple kids will literally like sneak across the border like crawl through a minefield make their way to the desert just to see that city and then be caught by Jordanian authorities and return as like held as idiotic heroes that everybody just you know dreams of doing the same thing well now you can cross the border one can go and see Petra

And that is a pretty exciting dream for me. The other thing is, at this point in time, I am a super serious photographer, and you're all invited over after to see my slideshow. But I'm doing studio work. I'm all dead serious. But I'm also traveling, and I've got my pyramids and my Acropolis and my Eiffel Tower and my London Bridge and

man, do I want Petra through my viewfinder. I want those pictures so bad. The complicating and mitigating factor is that I am cowardly. We call my mother the danger police. I'm terrified of everything. I don't want to cross that border. What if something happens? What if the peace goes bad? Do we need to be the first Jews rushing over, being all loud in Amman? It's really not what I'm going to do. And that's when my friend Mike Carlson,

And Mike and I, we really get along perfectly because if we were even 10 years younger, Mike would be so medicated into submission. He'd have like, you know, literally like a Ritalin drip. He would just be like comatose and quiet and really well behaved. But what he is is brilliant and energetic and a ton of fun and really convincing with me. And he's like, I know it's your dream. It's my dream. Like, let's do it. We can get there. Let's get tickets. You know, so we're like, I'm on it.

So I grab one pair of skivvies, toothbrush, floss, gum care. But anyway, but I also take my 90 pound bag of camera equipment. I got my FM2 and my pistol grip and my, you know, fisheye lens and my telephoto and also youngins. There's something, you know what's inside a camera at that point? What's inside an FM2? Nothing. There's a mirror that flips up and then there's film. You put film in the back.

So I've got x-ray bags because I'm, again, an artiste and I don't want the flight to alter my images. Anyway, but I'm like, I've got my high speed and my grainy and I've got like 10 million pounds of film and we get on that plane and change about 96 more times and we hit Jerusalem and we make camp and then...

We get on a whole bus full of Jews, and we cross the Allenby Bridge and the Jordan River, and it is not only biblical, it's like modern moving. Like, there is peace. That is a great and exciting thing. And I'm having a great time, you know, with Mike in Amman, in Jarrus, and he's the kind of guy, like, he behaves himself, but it's always like, you know, he gets me there, but then I'm like, why are you touching that? Why are you over there? Like...

Do you see anyone else on the other side of that red velvet rope? Then you probably should, you know, back here. But, you know what I'm saying? We're doing fine, and we get into the desert, and we get to Petra, and Petra is not there. What is there are two people

giant stone cliffs, like two mighty cliffs with a crack in between. There is a small path and you are just transported through time. You know, you just think what it must be to cross through the desert, to not know if you're going to live and die, where you're going to get water, and to enter this crack between these like two mighty cliffs and walk and walk and then it opens up

And there is this stunning city. And if I haven't made it clear, it is not built, Petra. It is not constructed. It is carved in the reverse Mount Rushmore style, like from the tip of your nose on back in the mountains. This is not with digital imaging, you'd faint at the beauty of it. But this notion that they did in like 300 BC, I just can't.

get over it is more stunning than I imagine I'm taking my pictures and there are the pillars and the treasury and the statuary and the temples and but what I care about what I'm most obsessed with is the geometry there are these triangles I mean perfect triangles ornate cut in the reverse and that is what really those are the main pictures that is what I'm getting at the end I've like found my subject and I get my photos and it is honestly a dream come true uh

Mike has broken nothing. We're on our way back to the bus and, uh, you know, someone it's, it's the desert. You know, someone has parked a donkey next to the bus, same lot, you know what I'm saying? And then, you know, Mike needs his silly photo. That's me. Art photo, silly photo, art photo, you know, so Mike needs it. You know, I got my triangle and then I, you know, here's Mike and he's doing an especially silly pose. And I know this is a great moment for him. And I zoom in and I focus and, uh,

For a New Yorker, this is a different wonder of the world. But at first I'm like, oh, it's a silly pose with a five-legged donkey. And then I understand. I was like, that's not a leg. This donkey is super excited to see us. It is a fully erect donkey. And this is, for my triangles, this is Mike's moment. You know what I'm saying? So I get the photo for him. Nobody's hurt. Donkey's not touched. No bestiality. We're good.

We get on the bus. We, you know, drive back across that bridge, back into Israel. It really feels like coming home for me. Like, we've had this great trip. And again, back to, like, feeling Jewish in a Muslim country and feeling like this Israel-Jordan thing. We are so high on cross-cultural understanding and the emotion of it and the religious love. We're like, let's go get our Christianity on. So...

We head straight for the Old City, and we head straight for the Church of the Holy Sepulchre. And, you know, I'll give you a little tour, but before you go in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre, to the left, there's a guy sitting on the chair, and this guy is a Muslim guy, and he has a key.

Why does he have a key? Because his father had the key, and his father's father, and his father's father's father's father. It goes back forever. He has the key because you sort of understand the region. Nobody gets along. Everyone gets, they're like, what's the problem? And you're like, the problem with peace is Jews don't get along with Jews. Muslims don't get along with Muslims, and the Christians don't get along with Christians. There are...

maybe six factions that share the church and the Franciscans don't get along with the Latin patriarch and the Greek Orthodox don't get along with the Ethiopian church and for that reason this guy sits there he unlocks the church for the Christians every day and that key is 500 years old and it's 500 years old because the 800 year old key broke and

That's how long his family's been sitting there. And then over the door, there's a ladder because someone was going to fix something or move something or clean an office or get up there. But then again, the fight breaks out. It's my, you can't go up it, but I can come down it. That immovable ladder has been sitting there for 300 years. That's the church. I want to go in, but of course, Mike, you know, he's wild and

crazed and energetic. He's also super charming. He's with a whole bunch of priests, you know, right by the door. They're all smiling and laughing and we need a mic photo, right, before we go in there. And he gets them all around him. Everyone's crowded around smiling, mic in the middle, and he gives the old Fonzie thumbs up, a big happy, hey, thumbs up. You know, everybody's smiling. I get the photo. We step, you know, out of Jerusalem sun into the darkness and the dust mites and all this guilt, you know, but sort of ancient beauty and

It's extraordinary. And there is like a six-foot marble slab. This is where they washed Christ's body before in the same place he was entombed and from where Christ rose. You know what I'm saying? Like I am standing at this marble slab where his body was washed. And for me who likes to live through a camera lens, I put my camera down and everybody else is filming. We're filled with tourists. But I am having a quiet transcendent moment. It is big for me.

And that's when I get hit in the back of the head.

and I get hit again and I'm getting grabbed and I'm sort of getting, you know, beaten around the head and neck, you know what I'm saying? And I look over and it is an ancient priest who is beating me with a whole bunch of backup priests. You know, I don't know what's going to go on if it's going to be a pile on, but he's getting first round. And if in my little exploration of different religions, I have to say one huge point for Christianity, like literally how many rabbis over time wanted to give me a good zets and beat some sense into me. And it is a first beating delivered by a priest.

So good for you, church. Anyway, but I'm being dragged outside. All those video cameras, now they got action more than a marble slab. Everyone's filming me. I look over, Mike's being dragged out, but I'm getting like the brunt of it. And I can't stand what's going, can't figure out what's going on. And the first thing that I figure out is the reason he gets to give the beating is this old priest is he's not just in charge of these priests. He's in charge of all the

priest. He's in charge of the church. He's in charge of all the Christians of Palestine and Israel. This is basically the Pope of Jerusalem. This is the most holy man in town, and he's furious at me. I've got that part down. And then I suss out the second bit, which is relevant, which is we've had a little cultural misunderstanding.

You see, Mike's thumbs up, where this guy's from, that is literally raising the middle finger. You know what I'm saying? So basically we thought, hey, thumbs up for Jesus. And what he's done is given a middle finger to all that is holy and good and Jesus-like in the most holy place on earth.

Right? So I'm trying to like get things better because again, I am now terrified. I mean, this is the guy who can pick up and call the prime minister of Israel. He can call my president. Like for those of you who don't know current events or have never heard of history at all, things in Jerusalem blow up so easy.

You know what I'm saying? Like, this can go big in bed. And by the way, back to nightly news, I'm like, Mike, we're not going to be on local night. We're going to be, like, global possibly. And they've got about 17 camera angles. They can make a nice reel of us being beaten and dragged out. Like, everyone is following the tourists that are coming to film this. Anyway, I'm just saying, like, Fonzie, hey, hitch a ride, happy times. I'm trying to explain this something, but it will not go away. And I am terrified and, you know...

Mike's trying to keep me calm. That's always his job, and then it gets bigger, and then I understand he's not just mad at me. This guy's mad at my camera. It's not just the motion. It's I took a picture of it. So, easy as pie, they're like, give us the film. There's one problem. I'm a coward on every front, but when it comes to the arts, I'll do anything. Those are my Petra photos.

You know what I'm saying? You can't have them. And I won't give up the photos. And I don't think I've ever seen Mike look scared, but he's like, just give them. But I'm not giving the picture. And this is maybe the only point me and the very angry priests agree on because I'm like,

I am not leaving here without that film. And they're like, no, you're literally not leaving here without that film. Like, we are surrounded. We are put up against the wall and sat down. And it is getting angrier and more upsetting. And there is no understanding happening between us at all. And somebody sends for a Jewish policeman to get over here. And he listens. And he's listening. And I'm not giving up the film. And they're not letting us go. And it is actually an incident is taking place, which is my worst nightmare. And then the cop, you know, like,

He's done his cop training. He's like, we have evidence. Why not just give me the film? Well, let's look at the photo in question.

So he sends off, it's back to the film time, the world of film, at the time where everyone has film, about every eight feet is a photo mat. So even in the old city in Jerusalem, you can buy your worry beads and your sheep gloves and all that, but they've got photo mats, so they bring back the Muslim photo mat guy. And he's like, I'm on the case. So I was like, I trust this guy. He looks like a good man. I roll up my film, and I was like, fine, let's do this. Let's judge. Let's see, because you know what? I'm sitting there, and I'm surrounded, and I'm terrified, but

like the tiniest trickle of confidence is starting to come in here. I'm looking at that ladder and I'm thinking, we're in trouble after two minutes here, but you guys have been here for 2,000 years not getting along. Like, what happened to my theology? This is the complete Christian theology by me. Turn the other cheek. That's the only thing I know. But I'm like, what about like, turn the other cheek? What about believing we are

good people. Like, he's a good guy. Like, can't you see? Like, why not give the benefit of the doubt that would not only help this church and this city and this region, it would help everybody in the world. You know what I'm saying? And I'm getting all positive and feeling almost righteous. And then the donkey. Oh, the donkey. The photo before that photo.

Well, we all know what that is. And I'm thinking, we are bad boys. We are very, very bad. And we deserve what we're getting. And I hope under the church is a church prison for us because we should really do our time. So now I'm in a terror and forget one hour photo. I mean, this guy's rushing, but it is 10.

lifetimes for me dying there, you know, waiting, terrified, and God bless Photomat Guy. That's why I'm here tonight to tell you. God bless Photomat Guy. He could have done whatever he wanted. He's seen them all. He brings back an envelope of negatives, and he has made one single print. He has printed the photo in question.

And he gives this to Pope of Jerusalem priest, and he studies it with his other priest studying behind him, and they look at us, and he's studying this picture. And you know what? Also, God bless that guy, because you know what? That motion is one motion to him. He doesn't have to see another motion. He doesn't have to hear any sense, and he doesn't have to believe that we have any goodwill at all. But he looks at that photo, and he sees his smiling priests, and he sees a smiling mic,

And, you know, again, don't know much of theology, but like he forgives us. We're absolved.

You know? He pockets the photo, I get back my precious negatives, and like that, like a cloud of black robes, you know, the priests move off into the dark, and we're free to go. And I just, you know, that moment is so big to me. I think about it like with our Muslim photo mat guy, God bless him again, and our Jewish policemen, and a whole bunch of Christian priests. We carved out a little corner of peace in Jerusalem, and status quo was restored. Thank you so much. Nathan Englander.

Nathan Englander is the author of five books, most recently the novel Kaddish.com. His play What We Talk About When We Talk About Anne Frank will premiere at the Old Globe Theatre in San Diego this September. He is Distinguished Writer-in-Residence at New York University and lives in Toronto with his wife and children. Nathan hasn't taken any serious pictures in 30 years, although his dog is always happy to sit for an iPhone shoot.

If you do want to see a picture of Nathan around the time of his trip, plus a small collection of his other photography, visit our website, themoth.org. ♪♪♪ Our final story coming up from this live event in New York City. ♪♪♪

The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts, and it's presented by the Public Radio Exchange, PRX.org.

You're listening to the Moth Radio Hour from PRX. I'm Jay Allison, producer of this radio show, and we're bringing you a live event from the New York Historical Society in New York City. The theme was Give Me Liberty, and the host was C.J. Hunt. Your next storyteller, when asked about the last time that she took a liberty, said that one of the liberties she really enjoys is the liberty of correcting her middle school students, and

even though she's not technically their teacher. We know that feeling of being like, I know I'm not your teacher. That's why I'm telling you to stop. Please welcome your third storyteller, Barbara Bowie. Yep, I think so. My brother and I were born and raised in Jackson, Mississippi during Jim Crow. In 1961, my brother got involved with Martin Luther King and the Civil Rights Movement.

He became a freedom rider. Well, I loved my brother and I always wanted to do everything he did, but I did not know what a freedom rider was. But my brother was 19 and I was only 13.

So this actually became a very serious movement for him because the Freedom Riders were challenging segregation in interstate transportation across the South.

And so they were the colored only, white only signs and the separation and bathrooms and restaurants and water fountains and all of that. And so...

This was very dangerous for them as well because the Ku Klux Klan did not want this to happen. So they were getting beat up and arrested and all of that. Well, my young friends and I heard about the protest and the sit-ins. So we thought, oh, okay, we can do this and could have fun doing it.

because there were, it wasn't that we didn't understand what was going on, but there, we would be able to go into restaurants and shops that said whites only. So, for instance, there was a restaurant in our neighborhood that we used to go to almost every day after school. But on one side it said colored only,

On the other side, it said, whites only. Well, the colored side was kind of small. It had a couple of booths, a jukebox. We could put a nickel in there and hear our music. And a counter. And if we wanted to get something to eat, there was a window there with a doorbell.

So we'd go up to that window. We could order hot dogs, french fries, and sodas on paper plates and cups. But as you stand in there at that window, you could see the other side. And the other side was big with lots of tables, white tablecloths and settings. And white people were seated and being served dinner. So...

This was wrong. This was how we were treated. And we understood that. Because when my mother would take us shopping for school clothes, the first thing she'd say to me is, "Bobby, go use the bathroom." And I'm like, "Mama, I already used it." "Go use the bathroom again." And I didn't understand that until we were downtown one day in the store.

And she had picked out a few items, and I had to use the bathroom. And she got very upset with me because she had to put those things back. We had to leave that store and go to a feeder street where there were colored businesses, use the bathroom, go back to the store, and start over again. And while we were in the store, she had to know my sizes.

Because they would not allow us to try on clothes or shoes. And so, and, you know, if you bought something that was too small or too big, they would not allow us to bring it back. So when we would leave the store, Mama would grab my hand. And I said, Mama, I'm a big girl. You don't have to. Shut up, gal. Shut up.

And when a white person would approach us, we had to get off the sidewalk and let them by. Well, Mama had to pull me off the sidewalk.

And so I did understand what was going on, how we were being treated, and that it was wrong. I just didn't understand what the civil rights movement or what the freedom riders could do about it because this was our lives. This was how we were raised. This was how it was. This was what we accepted, you know, and...

I didn't know, I didn't think that there was anything that could be done about it until several years later, one day I was coming home from downtown with my friends and

I was going up my street, my house was on the corner, so as I was walking up, everybody was saying, "Bobby, Bobby, you need to get home. Your mom got sick and she was taken to the hospital." And so, first of all, I'm like, "Hospital?" We never went to the hospital. Mama always had home remedies. So, you know, I ran home and I tried to find someone to take me and I couldn't, so I ran up to the hospital.

And when I got there, Mama was sitting in the waiting room, the emergency room, with a friend who had brought her there. And she was very distraught. She looked like she was going to pass out.

and she was sweaty, clammy, and she had a cold paper towel on her head, and she said, I'm trying to keep from vomiting again. And her friend told me, you know, she had vomited a washpan full of blood, and I'm like, I didn't believe that. This is a washpan, and, you know. So I said, well, how long have you guys been here? And he said, we've been here since about 2 o'clock. And I looked, and it was about 5.30 p.m.

So I went up to the desk and I said, you know, my mama's been here since two. She needs to see the doctor. She needs to lie down. And the young lady said, very rudely, we don't have a bed for your mother. And there are other people here who need to see the doctor before your mother.

So all I could do was go and sit down and wait with them. And as I'm sitting there, I'm seeing people being called up to see the doctor. Now, some of them might have been there before me, but most of them were coming in after, and they were being called. They were all white. So about 9.30 or so, they called Mama D.

And I said, wow, I was glad. I said, she can lie down. She'll see the doctor. Take it in the treatment room. So we're waiting for the doctor. And the nurse came in with the wheelchair.

And she said, I'm sorry, we're going to have to put your mother outside the door for a while because we have someone else who needs to see the doctor. And I was like, no, my mama's been here since 2 o'clock. She needs to see the doctor. Well, I'm a teenager, so they ignored me. And so when they went to get her up, she vomited.

And she almost filled that room with blood. So now nurses and doctors are coming from everywhere, and she needs blood transfusions and all of that. And they took her up to the fifth floor. So my brother came, and...

We went up to the fifth floor looking for Mama, and as I was passing by this treatment room, I heard a burst of laughter coming out, and I looked through the little crack in doctors and nurses, and I said, that's where Mama is, because no matter what was going on or whether she was sick or whatever, Mama always had something funny to say or do to make you laugh.

And so they took her to 501. And we're waiting outside the room to go in to see her. I wanted to hug Mama. I wanted to say I love you. The doctor came out, and he said, it's very late. We're trying to get her admitted soon.

Why don't y'all go home and come back the next day? I don't want to leave. I want to see Mama. I want to say I love you because we were a family who never said that to one another. I never remembered saying that to my Mama. But he wouldn't let us in, so we left. And the very next morning we came back, she was critical. So we were waiting outside her room again, and...

waiting to go in and see her, wanting to say I love you. And the doctor came out and he said, we're preparing your mother for surgery. And so we couldn't go in again. And so when they were rolling her out on the stretcher, I could see just a glimpse of her face between their bodies.

And her eyes were swollen and red and she had tears. And I just got this big hard ball right in the middle of my chest. And we went down to the second floor waiting for her to come out of surgery. And we waited and waited and waited. And finally the doctor came out and he said,

I'm sorry, your mother didn't make it. And I just burst into tears and I cried and I cried and I cried for days. But it was at that moment that I realized what that civil rights movement was all about. I realized why those freedom riders were challenging the colored only, white only signs and going to restaurants and

I even realized why we went in to do sit-ins and protest. This movement was about our lives. This movement was about equality. This movement was about our life and death. Barbara Bowie.

That was Barbara Collins Bowie. She was born in Jackson, Mississippi. Throughout her life, she's been a nurse, a poet, and was elected as the first black city councilwoman of Kirby, Texas in 2017. She continues her civil rights journey through the Dr. Bowie Foundation, encouraging future generations to use the stories of the Freedom Riders in the pursuit of freedom, justice, and racial equality. ♪

For more information about all of Barbara's efforts, you can visit our website, themoth.org. That's it for this episode of the Moth Radio Hour. We hope you'll join us next time. And that's the story from the moth.

Your host this hour was writer and comedian C.J. Hunt. C.J. is also a field producer for BET's late night show The Rundown with Robin Thede. And he's directing a documentary about America's painful love affair with Confederate Monuments.

Catherine Burns, Meg Bowles, and Catherine McCarthy directed the stories in this show. The rest of the Moss directorial staff includes Sarah Haberman, Sarah Austin-Ginness, and Jennifer Hickson. Production support from Timothy Liu Lee. Moss stories are true as remembered and affirmed by the storytellers. Our theme music is by The Drift. Other music in this hour from Goat Rodeo, Giora Feidman, and Punch Brothers.

You can find links to all the music we use at our website. The Moth Radio Hour is produced by me, Jay Allison, with Vicki Merrick at Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts. This hour was produced with funds from the National Endowment for the Arts. The Moth Radio Hour is presented by the public radio exchange, PRX.org. For

For more about our podcast, for information on pitching your own story and everything else, go to our website, themoth.org.