The Moth Radio Hour: In Famiglia
53:27 Share

Support comes from Zuckerman Spader. Through nearly five decades of taking on high-stakes legal matters, Zuckerman Spader is recognized nationally as a premier litigation and investigations firm. Their lawyers routinely represent individuals, organizations, and law firms in business disputes, government, and internal investigations, and at trial, when the lawyer you choose matters most. Online at Zuckerman.com.

The Moth is brought to you by Progressive, home of the Name Your Price tool. You say how much you want to pay for car insurance, and they'll show you coverage options that fit your budget. It's easy to start a quote. Visit Progressive.com to get started. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law.

This autumn, fall for Moth Stories as we travel across the globe for our mainstages. We're excited to announce our fall lineup of storytelling shows from New York City to Iowa City, London, Nairobi, and so many more. The Moth will be performing in a city near you, featuring a curation of true stories. The Moth mainstage shows feature five tellers who share beautiful, unbelievable, hilarious, and often powerful true stories on a common theme. Each one told reveals something new about our shared connection.

To buy your tickets or find out more about our calendar, visit themoth.org slash mainstage. We hope to see you soon.

From PRX, this is the Moth Radio Hour. I'm Jay Ellison, producer of this radio show. And this time, we'll dive into one of the richest story minds of all, family. We'll move backward to the ancestors, laterally into sibling drama, and forward with the children. Everywhere we look, more stories.

Our first one is from Kay Elmsley Whedon, who told this at a Story Slam in Madison, where we partner with Wisconsin Public Radio. The theme of the night was caution. Here's Kay, live at the mall. Thank you. When I was about eight years old, our family moved to a new town. And when we pulled into the driveway, we saw the house, but what we really saw was the river flowing.

we moved into a house right across the street from the Wisconsin River. And my parents hadn't even told us. We couldn't believe it. We flung open the doors and jumped out and raced across the road, Main Street, down the bank into the river. And my dad was close behind us. And as we were looking at this amazing sight,

I remember him saying something like, "Don't blah blah blah and be blah blah blah." You know, all those cautious words that you're supposed to listen to. But we four kids just looked at our new playground. It was like a wonderland. It was going to be amazing. And it was.

Because my parents, they left. They went to work. I got to figure out one day, where are my parents? What were they thinking? They went to work and left four kids, the oldest age 10, home alone to take care of themselves. But that was the 70s, and that's what you did. And so my sister, who was in charge the first day, said, let's go swimming.

Yeah! So we jumped into our bathing suits and raced off across the street down the bank and we walked along until we found this really cool tree that had half fallen into the water and as you scrabbled up the tree you could catapult yourself off that tree into the water and you'd hit the water and the river would like grab you and you would dog paddle as fast as you could to the edge down the way and you'd get back out and run back out and do it all over again. It was amazing.

until one time I slipped and I didn't jump far enough and I ended up plunging into the tree branches underneath the water. And I remember so clearly, even though I was only eight years old, struggling, trying to get out of these branches and I couldn't do it. And then I remember my chest, it hurt so much because I didn't want to open my mouth. I didn't want to suck in the water. And then I remember giving up. I just stopped.

And then the next thing I knew I was on the shore and there were my two sisters helping me, you know, spluttering and coughing up water. And it turns out it was my brother who had saved my life. My brother Jack. And where was he? Right back up on that tree jumping. And the only reason he saved me was because I was in his way. Seriously. So anyway...

Lots of things happened on that river, even though we were told to be very careful. One afternoon we heard screams for help, and as we looked out our window, I saw a canoe just flying down the river, overturned, with a man and two young children clinging to it.

There was nothing we could do except pick up the phone. That's what my mom did and dialed O for operator. And they must have called the police or the fire or I'm not sure who. But we found out the next day that the man and his two children had been rescued about four miles down the river. They had no life jackets on. And my dad said, don't go near that. So...

We saw all these canoes and rafts and all these great things and we could never do it because we never had anything like that. Until one day I had this great idea. In our front hallway was this chest, old wooden chest. So my sister Nettie and I, you could get her to do anything, we opened it up, we took everything out, unscrewed the lid, and dragged it across the street, down the bank, into the river. We dropped it in, and we jumped in, and it sunk to the bottom. Laughter

So we got some sticks and we jumped back in and we pulled our way out into the river and we got out a little bit further but the whole thing just filled up with sand and water and it was clear that it wasn't going to go anywhere and this wasn't going to work. And then we could not get it back out of the water and I knew I was going to be in some deep trouble if we didn't get this back out. So we raced back up, we got rope, we got my sister, we got my brother, we got the neighbors, we ran back down and it was gone.

The river had just washed it away. And wow, I was so panicked. I didn't know what I was going to do. But that's when I had my second good idea. We went back up, and Nettie and I, we folded the clothes really neatly, more than I've ever folded them neatly before. And then we took that lid and put it right on top. And I took a step back, and I looked at it, and I thought, looks good to me. Who's ever going to find out? My mother. My mother.

I'm going to say like 10 seconds after she got into the house, instead of going up the back staircase that she always would go up, for whatever reason, walked around to the front staircase, and I heard, What happened to my great-grandmother's travel trunk? Nettie did it. Thank you.

Hey, Elmsley Whedon is a retired Spanish teacher and bilingual children's storyteller. You can still sometimes find her on the Wisconsin River canoeing with what she describes as respect for its beguiling allure.

Kay and her siblings never recovered the trunk from the river, but her family did find a use for the lid. It was beautifully painted on the inside and inscribed with her great-great-grandmother's name. They used it for a box for years until it was ruined in a flood of the Pine River. Incidentally, Kay says she can still get her sister Nettie to agree to do just about anything.

Next up, a story from another Moth slammer, Marjace Miles. Marjace is Michigan born and raised and shared his story at one of our Detroit events sponsored by local public radio station WDET. Here's Marjace live at the Moth. So it was the summer of 2007. That was a great summer. See, that was the summer between my senior year of high school and my freshman year of college.

That was the same summer I got my first car, a '99 Ford Escort. That was the summer I got my first job, camp counselor at the Jewish Community Center. Shalom. And that was the same summer I even talked to a few ladies. Oh yeah, I was becoming a man. I was becoming the man. That wasn't until September 5th. See, that was the day my mom called me into her room, and as I sat at the edge of the bed, she said that she just got off the phone with Rachel's mom.

real quickly. So Rachel was my ex-girlfriend that I broke up with about a week ago because I thought high school girls weren't as cool as college girls. Rachel's mom hated me for reasons previously stated. And my mom was a Bible-thumping, Holy Spirit-filled, pray-before-you-eat-or-drink Christian. What were they talking about? My mom continued, did you know that Rachel was pregnant? And don't lie to me.

So before I continue, there is no correct answer to this question, okay? I thought about this for nine years. I've done surveys. I've done focus groups. I've done game theory. The prisoner's dilemma had nothing on the dilemma I was in. And so I lied. I said, yeah, I know. I mean, it's unexpected, but we're happy. You know, we're excited. I'm going to do this. I'm going to do this. I'm going to take care of it, Mom. I'm the man. So I've told this story a hundred times before to...

to friends, to family. I even wrote this on my graduate admissions essay and I lied every time. Because from that moment I said that I stepped up and that's the moment I became a man. That I was ready and that I was excited. But the truth is I wasn't. The truth is I was a coward and the truth is I was scared.

I mean, from the outside, I looked like I was doing okay. I mean, I smiled every time I talked about it. I was still hanging out with my friends. I started working a night job to make extra money. And I was saving away money to buy diapers and formula. But my smile was just to hide the tears inside. I only hung out with friends now because I was scared to be alone with myself.

The night job was because I couldn't sleep anymore and every dollar I saved up for that child could have very easily went to a one-way plane ticket anywhere in the world but Detroit, Michigan. The truth is I felt like a failure. I felt like I failed Rachel for having a child at the age of 17. I felt like I failed my unborn child because I knew I couldn't provide what she needed. But most importantly, and this is how twisted I was, I felt like I had failed myself.

Because I had this very clear-cut definition of what a man was, and what just happened was not it. I thought it was about cars. I thought it was about my money. May 12th, 2008. It was Mother's Day. And as my mom and I sat at the church, I got the call. And as we drove to the hospital, as my mom drove me to the hospital, I never felt more like a child. I had a thousand thoughts going through my head, but being a man, being the man, it wasn't one of them.

So as we got to the hospital, as a father you pretty much have two jobs. It's to say encouraging words and to get ice. So I did those and I just like I faked everything else I was faking that. Every time I came with that ice I stopped and I looked at the elevator and I just waited. I thank God I never walked in the elevator that day because four hours later my child was born. That's when it happened. As I held her innocence in my hand

I learned more about being a man in those first 19 seconds than I did in the previous 19 years. I knew that the child, that she loved me, that her desire to be and have a father couldn't be touched by anything else I've done or learned in the past. She said that I love you unconditionally. The ball is in your court. And I'm glad I picked up that.

Because it was that unplanned blessing that that unexpected miracle that woke me up that shook me That made me know that my mind but my concept of what a man was it was twisted that my thoughts of what it took to be masculine It was way out of bounds. So where is she now Jordan then my beautiful nine-year-old daughter is an honor student She's an avid basketball player and bowler and a self-proclaimed daddy's girl and me I

I don't know. I guess I'm still trying to figure out what it's like to be a man. But when I come and find out, I'll let you know. Thank you. That was Marjace Miles. Marjace is working toward an MBA at the University of Michigan. He will be graduating soon and hopes to pursue a career in brand management. He says he still doesn't know all of the secrets to becoming a man, but he's okay with that.

To see photos of Marjace and Jordan, visit our website, themoth.org. Coming up, more family stories, a young woman keeps a secret from her mother, and a father gets to share a once-in-a-lifetime experience with his son when The Moth Radio Hour continues. The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts, and presented by PRX.

You're listening to the Moth Radio Hour from PRX. I'm Jay Allison, and this time we're bringing you stories of family. Next up, we have Javanya Darling. Javanya came to us through our education program. She told this at one of our high school Grand Slams, where student storytellers from all across New York City share their stories in front of a live audience. Here's Javanya. So growing up, my family was very religious.

which meant church every Sunday. Girls wore dresses, boys wore suits, girls were supposed to do what boys were supposed to do, which didn't leave any room for any ideas that went against the Bible. Now, this was especially hard for me because I figured out at a young age that I was attracted to the same sex, which was like fourth grade, so pretty young. I always kind of had these feelings, but kind of pushed them aside because they went against everything that I knew.

But this all started to change around the beginning of middle school. These feelings were becoming stronger and a lot harder to ignore. I didn't know what to do about them. At this point, I was staying up nights crying, like, what am I supposed to do? How am I going to tell my family? And I wanted to reach out to my mom or a friend or a family member, but I just couldn't because there was this boy at my middle school, and he was also openly gay, but he was treated terribly because of it.

I'd walk down the hallways and I would hear stuff about him, and people were just overall just terrible. Which made me think, "Yeah, so I'm like never gonna tell my mom about this, I'll just keep it to myself." And I did. For a long time. Well, kinda long. It was around the ending of middle school, which is eighth grade summer transitioning to high school, and I met a girl. Well, I met a girl. I saw her on Facebook. And I found out that her name was Mala.

And I thought she was the most beautiful girl I've ever seen in my entire life. So naturally, I stalked her for about a week. Until I gained the courage to say hi, and she texted back, and the conversation flowed from there. And when texting wasn't enough anymore, we decided we wanted to meet up. And we did, like every weekend that summer. But it was very hard for me to do that. Because my mom used to drive me everywhere, and I had to lie to her.

about who I was going to see because I didn't want to make it suspicious. So the conversation went something like this: "Hey mom, can I go to the mall?" or whatever to see, go hang out with my friends and she was like, "Sure, who you going with?" And I'm like, "This person, this person, and Mala." And she would just be like, "Okay," and she would drive me there. Now this went on for a while towards like the ending of summer. Now, she would drive me to the park to meet up with my friends, but just one person.

I'm guessing it's mother's intuition where she like figured out my game, figured out my story. And it was a hot, hot August day. And we got into the car and she looks at me and says, what's your relationship with that Mala girl? And I was like, what do you mean? She's my friend. And she was like, Giovanna, tell me the truth and tell me the truth now. I was like, mom, what are you talking about?

And she's like, "Giovanna." So I'm like, "Alright, I like her." She's like, "What do you mean you like her?" And I'm like, "I like her, like her." And then the car felt silent. And I looked out the window, and this was like for five minutes, so that's a long time to be staring out the window. And I gained up the courage to look over, 'cause the car was quiet, like, what's going on? And over on just her side, and all I saw was her crying. And I felt like I just told her the worst news that she could ever hear. I felt like I just destroyed her as a mother.

And I didn't say anything to her. And she didn't say anything to me. Until we got to the park. She parked her car. And she turns to me and say, I want to meet that Mala girl. And I was just like, no, not today. Please stop. And she's like, Giovanna, I want to meet her and I want to meet her now. So I said, okay. And I got out of the car. I met up with Mala. And I was like, hey, so...

My mom is outside and she wants to meet you and she was like, "Why? No!" And I was like, "It's gonna be okay!" And then she was like, "Alright!" She got to the car, she sat in the front seat and I sat in the back and my mom was just hammering her with questions. And I was in the back having a huge panic attack. I had to take a deep breath and remind myself like, "You're okay, this is gonna be fine. Everything's gonna be fine. You're alive, you're still breathing."

And then the conversation eventually ended, and me and the girl went to the park. And now we were there for like an hour or so, and we were shook. We barely spoke to each other. We barely wanted to hug or anything because my mom is terrifying sometimes. My mom eventually came back to pick me up after an hour. I got into the car, and my mom was walking up to the car as well. I sat down in the seat, and my mom was like, hey, you want a ride home? And she was like,

Let me just walk. It's fine. And I was happy at that moment because that would have been a really awkward car ride. But I was also upset. I was upset about her reaction earlier that I've just told her something so important to me and that she would react like that. So we sat in silence for a really long time once again. So it's like a 15 minute drive to the park. So it's a 15 minute drive back. So we're driving back and she parks the car. We still haven't said anything to each other. I'm getting ready to leave the car now.

And she looks at me, and I look back at her, and she goes, "This doesn't change who you are. This doesn't change how much I love you. This doesn't change anything about our relationship." And at that moment, this unexplainable feeling of happiness just washed over me, and I couldn't believe that somebody in my family that was so religious could say something like that to me. And also in that moment, it gave me hope that this world is changing for the better. Thank you.

Giovanna Darling is a student at the Brooklyn High School of the Arts and is an aspiring English teacher. As for her mother, Giovanna told us their relationship has gotten much better and they are like best friends now.

Our next story is from Reverend Bob Burrill, an ordained Assemblies of God minister and proud father of three. Here, live at the Moth Main Stage in Boston, sponsored by public radio station WGBH, is Bob Burrill. I've been an ordained minister for over 30 years, and I spent over 20 years pastoring a small church in Framingham, Massachusetts.

I didn't make a lot of money, but I had a very fulfilling life and I really enjoyed much of that time. My wife Marianne loves kids and we raised three of them. I have a daughter Amy that is a registered nurse today. She's got a family of her own and she has, I'm suddenly drawing a blank here, but oh,

She's got a family of her own. She lives in Springfield, Missouri. I've got a daughter, Rachel, who's very active in community theater in Framingham, very talented. And I've also got a son, John, who looks something like me and is very intelligent. I don't know where he got that from. Didn't get that from me. And I've got to tell you about a couple quirks of mine. One of them is...

I tend to speak many times before I think

And I'm also quite a big affectionato of the TV game show, "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?" I mean, when that show came on the air in 1999, I couldn't get enough of it. It was on ABC, if you recall, almost every night, and I was glued to it. Regis Philbin was the host. What a great guy! I just wanted to sit down and have a burger with the guy.

And watch a Patriots game with Regis. And these ordinary people were coming on the show, and he would ask them a few questions, and the next thing you know, they're leaving the show, and they've got all kinds of money. And I thought, what a great thing. I want to go on that show. I want to go on Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? In the worst way, I wanted to do that. Well, fast forward to 2015...

And of course, Now Millionaire is a daytime show and Chris Harrison is the host. But I still catch it from time to time when I can. In fact, I even watch it today. But I got an email, it's 2015 in the spring, I got an email from my 31-year-old son, John,

And he said, "Dad, I have been selected to be a contestant on 'Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?'" Now, how great is that?

But not only that, now you may recall that in the Regis Philbin days, they used to have a lifeline called "phone a friend." And you know, the person would call up, the contestant would call up one of their friends to help them answer a question. Regis would be there, "Charlie needs a little help," if you recall those days. Well, they no longer do the "phone a friend."

But even better, they let you bring a friend to the studio and John asked me to be his plus one, his friend at Millionaire. So I was going to get to go on Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? And let me tell you, I was pumped. I was telling everybody, we're going to be on the show. And there was more to being on the show than I would have initially thought. A lot of paperwork to read and sign, this and that you had to do. I was surprised it was so much.

But several weeks went by and it's July 2015 and in those days it was taped in Stanford, Connecticut, which is very convenient being from Boston, just a few hours down Interstate 95 and there you are. And we had great father and son time. It was just great. I so enjoyed being there at the facility

And being in the green room, I was actually quite surprised because guess what? The walls were actually green.

And you know, you get to spend, some of it was boring because you're in there for hours, but you're meeting contestants, another plus one, staff from the show, things like that. But finally the time came that a gentleman came in and he said, John and John's father, come with me. So we followed him and it wasn't too long before we're walking onto the set of Who Wants to Be a Millionaire? And I was just

Absolutely in awe. I couldn't believe I was there. I wanted to just break out in the Pointer Sisters. I'm so excited. I really did. They even had a special seat for the plus one and I'm sitting in my special seat, just feeling so great. And they start the taping. They introduced John Burrell from Framingham, Massachusetts.

And he really was great. And I've got to tell you a little bit about the show, just in case you're not familiar with it. They ask the contestant 14 questions, and they start with low dollar amounts. First one's $500, then $1,000, goes all the way up to $1,000,000. And they have two what they call thresholds.

that if you get to the $5,000 level and you get it right, you can't leave without $5,000. Same thing with $50,000. You get to $50,000, you get it right, can't leave without $50,000. But also at any time, you may be at a certain level and say,

Boy, I'm not sure, I don't know if I know the answer. I think I just want to walk with whatever amount of money you've banked to that point, 10,000, 20,000, whatever. Well, John starts answering the questions. He was absolutely phenomenal. He was funny, he was interesting, he was entertaining, and he's a humble guy really, but he was really showcasing his intelligence. I got to tell you, I was so proud of him. I'm sitting there with an ear to ear grin, giving two thumbs up.

And I'm sitting there thinking, he's going to leave here with at least, at least $50,000. And John's just whipping through them, you know, $10,000, $20,000, $30,000. Wow. And something I've got to mention that I don't want to forget is when you see the figures on the television show on the screen, you might think, oh, well, big deal. But when you're actually there...

They're huge, they're on this huge screen and I'm looking at 10,000, 20,000, 30,000 and he's done, he's got the 30,000 and now he's going for the 50,000. And I knew, I just knew he was gonna get that right. Things just couldn't be any better. And here's the $50,000 question.

said, "In the interest of fighting cybercrime, the FBI is seriously considering removing which hiring restriction?" So in other words, there's a group of people the FBI currently won't hire, but to fight cybercrime, they're seriously considering hiring them. The question is, is it A, those who have Twitter accounts? B, those who are under age 25?

C. Those who smoke marijuana D. Foreign-born US citizens And John starts bantering a little with Chris Harrison and he says, "You know, I'm not sure of the answer. I think it's time for my plus one." And all of a sudden, the spotlight is on me and I'm walking down looking at Chris Harrison and looking at John and I'm thinking, "I don't have the slightest idea."

Of the answer to this question. Now I said at the outset, I've had an issue in my life that I've been known to speak before I think. Well this would be a great illustration of that. Because I get up there and I'm just babbling, well everybody has a Twitter account.

And I really don't think it's those who smoke marijuana. Could it really be people under 25? Foreign-born? And I'm just babbling and babbling, and I don't know the answer. But I turn to John and I say, you know, I really think it's foreign-born U.S. citizens.

And John says, "D, foreign-born US citizens, final answer." And I'm standing there and I'm looking, right in front of me is that big $30,000 figure. And suddenly it dropped to $5,000. And Chris Harrison said, "Oh, I'm sorry. It's those who smoke marijuana." And you would not believe how fast we were whisked right out of there.

I was amazed. It felt like one minute later, we're standing in this parking lot in Stanford, Connecticut, and I turned to John and I said, "What did we just do?"

And he said, "Look, Dad, don't take this on yourself. It was a game." He said, "I gave the final answer, so if anybody messed up, it's on me." But he said, "Hey, I'm still going to get a check for $5,000. It's not that bad." Well, he was very good about it. I have to tell you, I was a mess. I was. I was. I was a mess.

Now, if you recall, I talked about signing, reading and signing paperwork when we agreed to go on the show. We had contractually agreed we would not say anything about what happened on the show until it aired. Nothing. And I mean, it was three months from the time we were on the show to the time it aired. And people are asking, is John a millionaire? What happened on the show? And we had to just keep saying, I can't say anything, I can't say anything. But I'll tell you, the first 48 hours...

was so difficult because I just, you know people say when they're drowning they see visions of their whole life before them. Well, I didn't see that but all I could think about was in my life how many stupid things I'd blurted out that maybe were hurtful to people even when I was pastoring. And I never intended to be mean-spirited or nasty or anything like that

But I would just make offhanded comments. I mean, if somebody had us to dinner or something, and I might later say, "Boy, they had us for lasagna, but it looked and tasted like vegetable soup." And then it would get back to the person, and they'd be upset. And a lot of things like that, really.

Now, you know, it is funny now. It really is. It is funny now. But at the time, I was a mess. I really was. But I got to tell you about a neat little word, a cool word that you may not know, and it's from the Hebrew.

And it's Selah. S-E-L-A-H. Selah. It's found in the Psalms. Usually at the end of a sentence or a stanza, you'll be reading along, The Lord is great. Selah. Or the heavens are majestic. Selah. What does Selah mean? Well, literally, Selah means pause and think about that. Pause and think about that. Well, I had three months of Selah. I did. I did.

I did. I had three months to pause and think about that. But to think, you know, I could have just said, "You know, John, I don't know the answer. You don't know the answer. Let's just walk with $30,000. What would be wrong with that?" That was the right thing to do that I didn't do. And to think about, do I really have to say every stupid thing that comes into my mind? Well, I don't. Now, I'll tell you, that show actually aired on Columbus Day.

of 2015, which was great because it was a holiday, a number of people had the day off. I watched it with family and as upset as I was when it happened three months later, I really enjoyed watching the show. I really did. I watched it with family including my sister and my sister is all excited saying, "He's got 20,000! He's got 30,000!" I'm sitting there thinking, "Well, wait till they see what's coming." And she did and then it was...

You mean that's what happened? He lost all that money? I said, yeah. But I was so relieved. I was so relieved that I could talk about it. And tonight I can say, as I look back upon that, seriously, I cherish the memory of going on Who Wants to Be a Millionaire with my son, John.

and I even cherish the memory of the aftermath of that experience. CELA, thank you.

That was Bob Burrill. Bob has served as pastor of the First Assembly of God in Framingham, Massachusetts for 23 years. On the train home after telling this story, a woman recognized Bob from the show and was thrilled. She told him she watches Who Wants to Be a Millionaire every day and vividly remembered Bob and John's stint on the show. And she remembered the exact question they got wrong. ♪

When we come back, two more stories of family relations and challenges when the Moth Radio Hour continues. ♪♪♪

Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts, and presented by PRX. You're listening to the Moth Radio Hour from PRX. I'm Jay Allison. Our next story is from Ching Zhao. She shared it at a recent New York slam where we partner with public radio station WNYC. Here's Ching, live from New York.

In exactly 28 days, I will be moving to Melbourne. The one in Australia, not the one in Florida. And I found out about this in June when my company told me that they will move there for a year. And it was kind of one of those things that's a big deal, only one person gets picked. And I rushed home and I told my parents. And my dad was on his couch at the time and his face planted in front of his laptop. And I saw him pull his head back

the white hair behind his ears peeking out a bit, and I already knew what he was going to say. "I don't think you should go. You should stay here and find a boyfriend." You see, in China, where we're from, someone like me that is a woman, 30 years old and single, I am what's considered "shen nü," or literally, "leftover woman." And it doesn't matter that my parents have traveled around when they were young. When it comes to me, the generation gap is real.

I, however, did not want to put my life on hold for someone who did not exist. So I... So I began to plan my adventure in Australia. And it's as if the universe heard my parents calling. A couple weeks later, I met Adam. And Adam, well, he's perfect. Adam is this rare breed of engineered and athlete. And...

He's looking for something real. We talked on the phone every day and he could make me laugh until my stomach hurt. And one day when we talked about the visions we had for our lives, Adam said, unprompted, there's one thing I know for sure. I will never, ever have a long distance relationship. I was wondering when to tell Adam about Australia, so I guess it made my life easier.

And after some back and forth, we decided to keep going because when you have something special, you try to make it work and things continue to be perfect. I met his best friends. He sent pictures of us to his mom. And I began to think about things like, what if I delay my trip for a couple months and we'll try to make this work? And Adam began to tell me about his future plans too, like the vacations he wanted to take next year.

Morocco, Papua New Guinea, not once Australia. And one day I just had to be like, "Hey man, what's going on?" To which he responded, "The one thing I know for sure, I will never, ever do long distance." That night I stayed home. I buried my face in my hands. A million thoughts rushed through my head. Could I have been more or better so he can change his mind? Should I stay?

What if dad was right all along that this whole Australia thing was just a self-sabotaging scheme to turn away love? And I saw my dad getting up from his couch and I just knew what he was going to say. Why can't you just listen and stay? And at that moment, he actually said, one year flies by. If this man doesn't even want to work with you on this, what are you doing? You are going to Australia.

And I took another good look at him, the white hair behind his ears still peeking out, and I knew that the biggest worry he has in life was for me to finally settle down. And yet at that moment, he wasn't treating me like a leftover woman. Instead, he was telling me, don't you put your life on hold, even for someone who does exist, even if he's perfect. I walked over and I gave him a hug and

And my dad barely knew how to give a proper hug back. So all he did was just put one arm around me and gently tap me on the back with his fingertips. And it's okay that the hug sucked because at that moment, at that moment, I knew two things for sure. One, I would never ever have a long distance relationship with Adam. And two, I've never felt closer to my dad. Thank you. That was Ching Chow.

Since telling this story, Ching arrived in Australia. She told us, the koalas were even more adorable than I imagined. She and Adam ended their relationship amicably, and her parents are excitedly planning a visit to see her in her new home. Photos of Ching and her family, as well as photos of the koalas, are at themoth.org.

Our final family story this hour comes from Carmen Putnam. Carmen told this story at a San Francisco Grand Slam sponsored by KALW and KQED. The theme of the night was When Worlds Collide. Here's Carmen Putnam. My first baby was stillborn when I was eight and a half months pregnant with her. It was devastating. Three months later, I was pregnant again.

We decided to do that. We decided to try for another baby right away, but the second I saw that positive pregnancy test, I thought, well, shit. The problem was not that I didn't actually want another baby. The problem was that I desperately wanted another baby, one that I could keep this time, and I knew if I lost this baby too, I would lose myself forever. And from that moment on, I was terrified. Every single second...

I really had no idea how hard it would be to grieve for one baby while growing another one. I tried not to think about the future. I didn't let myself hope. I tried not to get attached. I didn't even want to tell anyone about the pregnancy. I wished I could do it in secret. It got scary to even go to the grocery store because I just didn't want to have to have those standard pregnant lady conversations with strangers.

"How far along are you?" is always followed by one of two things: "Is this your first?" or "Aren't you excited?" And for me, those questions were so heavy and so complicated, I never figured out how to answer them. When I was halfway through my pregnancy, we went in for the standard anatomy ultrasound, and they found that he was a boy and so far perfectly healthy. And that day I did. I felt some relief.

But I remember very clearly a few days later, I was sitting in my baby room. It had been stripped down of all the purple and butterflies and baby blankets that had been there when we were expecting to bring our daughter home. Now it was just a crib, a changing table, and a chair. And suddenly it hit me right in the gut. My whole chest felt hollow and tight at the same time. And I knew in that moment that I loved him as much as I had loved her.

It felt like I was walking the plank. It was impossible to even imagine a positive outcome. And I was home alone, so I called my best friend, sobbing. And she said, is the baby okay? And I said, yeah, but I'm not. I love him. And I did. I loved him so much in spite of myself. I tried to distance myself. I tried not to let him in just in case, but he was in there right next to my heart like he was cuddling up to it.

There were times during my pregnancy when I would beg my husband to sedate me. I wanted him to find a way to put me into a medically induced coma and just don't wake me up until the baby makes it out alive. And if he doesn't make it, don't bother waking me. I wasn't supposed to say things like that, though. That's so negative. I felt the need to qualify every statement about the baby with, if he makes it or if we get to bring him home. But man...

That made people really uncomfortable. People kept saying, "Of course he'll make it," which just felt like a slap in the face. When I was 36 weeks pregnant, I went into preterm labor, and I gave birth to a healthy, living, screaming baby boy. And even though he was a whole month early, he was fine. He was perfect. And I just like to believe that he knew I needed him to hurry.

I wish that I could end my story there and say, and then we all lived happily ever after. And my son is fine, but for me, it's not that simple. A loss like the death of our daughter, it really takes a toll. And then living in that paralyzing fear every day for so long during my second pregnancy, it wore me down. It changed me.

That day, when I realized that I loved him, I also realized that he held my life in his hands. And I hope he never felt that pressure from me. But I hope that someday I can tell him how he saved my life. How he didn't replace his sister, but how he brought me hope again. When I wanted to give up, because of him I couldn't. I didn't. They call the baby that comes after a loss the "Rainbow Baby."

And I love what they say, which is, "The beauty of a rainbow does not negate the ravages of the storm." Thank you. Carmen Putnam is a singer who spent her teens and twenties touring the country doing musical theater. These days she's a stay-at-home mom to her now six-year-old son.

Stillbirth is quite common, but it is seldom discussed. At the Moth, Carmen has told two stories about losing her first child, and both times she's had people from the audience thank her and tell her they now understand better what their own family members have gone through. That's it for this all-family, all-the-time episode of the Moth Radio Hour. We hope you'll join us next time. And that's the story from the Moth.

The stories in this episode of the Moth Radio Hour were directed by Jennifer Hickson, Larry Rosen, Chloe Salmon, and Julian Goldhagen. The rest of the Moth's directorial staff includes Catherine Burns, Sarah Haberman, Sarah Austin-Ginesse, and Meg Bowles. Production support from Emily Couch. Most stories are true, as remembered and affirmed by the storytellers.

Our theme music is by The Drift. Other music in this hour from Punch Brothers, Soul Live, Gregory Ullman, Peter Sandberg, Bruce Coburn, and Julian Lodge. You can find links to all the music we use at our website. The Moth Radio Hour is produced by me, Jay Allison, with Vicki Merrick at Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts. This hour was produced with funds from the National Endowment for the Arts.

Moth Radio Hour is presented by PRX. For more about our podcast, for information on pitching your own story to us, and everything else, go to our website, themoth.org.