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Hey everybody, I'm Aliza Cosme. And I'm Fonzo Lacayo. We're the hosts of Grown, a podcast from The Moth all about growing up. It showcases live stories, conversations, and a bunch of cool stuff. We wanted to share something super special with you today, an episode from Grown's second season. If you like what you hear, Grown is available wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find out more information on grownpod.com. So without further ado, here's me and Aliza.
I'm standing next to my brother, shoulder to shoulder, and we're in the midst of a crowd of 2,000 people who are all chanting in unison. Things like, "Free, free Afghanistan," and "Refugees are welcome here." There are a line of drummers keeping the chants on beat, and there are cars going down Fifth Avenue, looking at the crowd, honking in support of people's signs.
And the audio that you're hearing right now is from that day. We're gathered outside of the New York Public Library in New York City. It is August 2021. It is hot. We are sweating and we are screaming. And the U.S. has just withdrawn from Afghanistan and the Taliban has taken over. And the Afghan diaspora has watched our homeland fall and a humanitarian crisis take over.
And we're all there that day to raise awareness of the crisis, to connect people who have loved ones in the country with resources to get them out if they want. And my 19-year-old brother is standing in the middle of this crowd, his eyebrows furrowed, his voice cracking as he screams into a megaphone. And he has led this protest. He has worked for the past two weeks to get everybody here to raise awareness, to come together in community.
And as I'm looking at him hold this megaphone, I realize my baby brother isn't a baby anymore. Long past are the days where we would fight about who got more whipped cream on their pancake or Sunday nights cuddled up watching SpongeBob. And even though he is my baby brother, on that day, I have never looked up to someone more. Grown. Grown. Grown. Grown.
I'm Fonzo. And I'm Aliza. And this is Grown, a podcast from the moth full of stories about what it means to grow up. Welcome to our second season, everyone. Fonzo, are you excited to be here? I am very intensely excited, of course. I'm excited. We got some good stories. I miss being in the booth with you. It's good times. Let's do it. Let's do it. Yeah.
Well, if this is your first time tuning into Grown, that's totally cool. Just make sure you go back and binge the first season after this. But basically, we'll give you a rundown. So every episode, we explore a theme that deals with what it means to grow up. And we'll have a bunch of stories, conversations, audio diaries from young people, everything dealing with that theme. This episode, we're looking at siblings, the way they shape us, mold us, and how even people you're not related to can become your siblings.
I'm a younger sibling myself with two older sisters. And let me tell you, five-minute showers is the way to go. As an older sister, I can say you're right. Well, first up today, we have Saad Najam with a story that'll make you long for a summer vacation. He told this at a New York City Story Slam. Here's Saad, live at the Moth. So growing up, I used to count the days till summer vacation started.
What summer vacation meant for me was it meant no more schedule, it meant no more homework, or faking like I did my homework. And it meant that I get to play basketball and video games every single day, and my mother couldn't say no. But the summer before entering eighth grade, rather the school year entering the summer vacation, I was playing around with my little brother with detergent,
and I ended up slipping and I broke my toe. So that meant no basketball. But that's fine, like, I still get to play video games every day. But my mother wanted to punish us. So she said that she's gonna send us to summer Sunday school. The only thing is, summer Sunday school isn't only on Sundays. It's every single day, including Saturday and Sunday.
My summer was ruined. I thought to myself, "What am I gonna do? Alright, fine. I'll go to this summer Sunday school." First day comes and we get to the summer Sunday school and this teacher is out of his mind. This guy is assigning homework. But the homework is so weird. He's telling us that we have to do a hundred prayers to God. And I'm thinking to myself, "How is this guy gonna check
If I did my hundred prayers to God, there's no way that he can figure out that I didn't do my hundred prayers to God. A week goes by, we sit through this miserable, like this just miserable sitting in this summer Sunday school. And my older brother comes up with a plan and he's like, "We're just not gonna go." The bus that we used to take to the summer Sunday school, if we took the bus just two stops farther, we were at Brighton Beach.
So my older brother thought, "We're gonna have a beach summer." And I was elated, 'cause I never went to the beach as a kid, so it would've been like a new experience for me. So one morning we get up really, really early where my parents aren't awake, and we stuff a bed sheet into one of our book bags, and then we put shorts underneath our shorts so my mom doesn't know. We get on the bus, and we don't get off on our stop, and we get to the beach.
And we set up our bed sheet and we put our book bags on so the wind doesn't fly the bed sheet away. And we start walking towards the water. And I'm getting really, really eager to get into the beach. And my older brother grabs me and he stops me and he goes, you can't go in the water. Like, why can't I go in the water? I'm waiting for this. Why can't I go in the water? He goes, you still have the cast on your foot.
You can't go in the water because you're gonna get the cast wet. And it's such a funny thing to say, he's not thinking about my toe. He goes, "If your cast gets wet, then mom is gonna figure out." So, and anyways, he says, "We need someone to watch the bags anyways." So I'm just looking at him and he's right.
But I'm wronged in this situation. So I just put my head down, I walk back to our area and I sit down and I'm seething with anger. Like my summer is taken from me again. And I start thinking to myself that I'm gonna snitch on them. I am gonna, when we get back home, I'm gonna tell it was my older brother's plan. But the thing is, my mother was a very tough woman. There are no plea deals.
If I told her that we did this, I wasn't getting an out. I would be punished just the way that my brothers did. So I was like, all right, that's not a good idea. How am I going to bide the time? So I'm sitting there just so angry. I'm looking at my brother. My older brother's teaching my little brother how to swim in the water. I'm like, oh, fuck them. Like, just so, so angry in this situation. And...
I start thinking of how am I gonna just sit here and just bide the time and after like thinking of what to do I'm like alright let me try these 100 prayers to God. And I lie down, I close my eyes and I start doing the prayers and
I guess my heart rate slows down and I start like paying attention to like what I'm like my sensations around me. And I feel the warm sun like kissing my skin. I feel the wind grazing my skin and cooling me down. I feel the sand massaging me and I get back up and I take a deep breath and I open my eyes and I look at my brothers and I can't help but smile.
And I thought to myself, if this is how I'm going to spend the rest of this summer, it's not going to be that bad. That was Saad Najam. We asked how his younger self would describe him now, and Saad replied, younger me would say I'm definitely a clown in a good way. He would notice my affinity to being silly and appreciate it. I love that, affinity to being silly.
If you'd like to learn more about all of our storytellers, check out grownpod.com. Plus, we're also on Instagram and TikTok at grownpod.
where we'll have a whole bunch of behind-the-scenes photos and extra content. Up next, a story about being your sibling's understudy. But first, Fonzo, I just want to chat about siblings for a bit. Yes. Aliza, I really enjoyed your memory, by the way. You and Saad mentioned that you saw your sibling as their own person, and I was just wondering how has your relationship changed over the years?
Yeah, I think that, you know, being an older sister when I was younger, I definitely had this perspective and maybe expectation of being a third parent to my brother that I think maybe strained our relationship. We have a four-year gap, which when you're, you know, eight and 12 feels really, really big. And we would fight a lot. And, you know, we'd also would
be friendly with each other, but I remember us having really intense fights when we were younger. And there is this moment once, either my brother and I were having a really big fight or something, my mom and my dad just said to us, like, you know, you're all you have in life, really. Like, you're siblings the way that, you know, you're siblings. And so as you grow up, there's going to be no one else in this world that gets you like this person does. And
And that really, like, clicked for me in my brain of, like, yeah, that's so true. Like, this person has known me majority of my life, and I love him dearly, and I get him, and he gets me, and he drives me batty sometimes. But...
He's like my built-in best friend. And I think once I realized that, once I stopped feeling like I had to parent him or my parents kind of let that go a little bit for me, we built a really strong bond. And I think especially when I was in college and he was in high school and during the pandemic, for sure, when we were in a home together, we were able to build a really strong bond.
Our relationship got really strong, and he tells me things that he doesn't tell my parents and vice versa, and we also can just vent about things and not have judgment or have to explain ourselves a bunch. And I'm just really, really, really grateful for him.
That's amazing. That's amazing. And also in your memory, just like just seeing that 19-year-old version, it must have been like so surreal. Taking in that moment and just like, wow, okay, you know, all right, this is really my brother. Like, that's so cool.
like oh that's really my brother but like oh my god he's his own person with his own dreams and aspirations and accomplishments and I was I am so proud of my brother like I will rant about him forever to people because I really am just so proud of him but one thing that's really funny though is like yeah we're both adults now but I feel like he still lives with my parents when he's not at school and I go and I see them and I feel like we revert back into like
preteen versions of ourselves. Like the other day, I was out at Dunkin' Donuts and my mommy was buying me an iced coffee and I felt like a teenager. And my brother was there and I had this bruise on my arm from tubing and my brother comes over and pinches my bruise. And so I punch him in the boob and
We're like beating on each other in this Dunkin' Donuts. And my mom turns around and she's like, you guys are both adults. You got to grow up. And it's like, no, this is kind of someone I don't ever have to really be fully grown with. Exactly. This is us. This is what we're doing. Exactly. That's amazing. What about you? What's your relationship like with your sisters as an adult? As an adult? Wow.
Big. I am a younger sibling, so older sibling. Cool. How you doing? I have two older sisters. I love my sisters. They are my guardians and have shaped me in so many ways, led me in so many places, and I've learned so much from them in life.
Relationship definitely has changed being a younger brother. I would have a lot of experiences where I would have my sister stand up for me and protect me. Having that growing up was amazing. And I don't know. I always looked up to my older sisters. I have one sister who's really outspoken.
partying and going out and taking trips to here and there and flying all over and has tons of friends. And so I grew up wanting to be around her as much as often. And one day, looking forward, like, oh, I'm going to hang out with my older sister and do this and do that when I grow up. And then I have another sister who is...
not as extroverted, we're both very lively, but more into staying in. So I have that duality, but now as I get older, it's like the things that I had wanted and looked forward to, it's like because now we're in different stages than I am, and where they were. I didn't get what I was craving back then was to just be out and be an adult with my
older sister or go on coffee dates with my sister and maybe read a book together or something like that. I didn't get that thing that I was craving back then, but I am still very close and I still appreciate it. And we still have dinners together. They come over and visit me in my apartment and we watch movies and do that. And it's great. I love that. One thing I was going to say, it sounds like...
that you know with siblings is just and I noticed with my sisters as well is that your brother you mentioned like sounds like he holds you accountable and like you hold each other accountable and that's like the most important thing relationship wise is like yeah you love each other but like being so having someone that's going to hold you accountable someone who is like notices like like something and you know says something that's like so important my sister is
They know when I'm like doing something wrong or I'm heading towards a wrong direction. I've been held accountable and told by my sisters a lot. And I think that's like really shaped me to be a better person and learn that lesson, you know. Like that's what siblings I notice a lot are like just like that wall of like, no, like I don't care what you think about me. I don't care. Like, you know.
You know, I'm going to tell you, like, this is what it is. Yeah. That's so true. Like, they see through your BS because they know you better than anyone. Yeah. They're for real. And you need that. Someone that's just going to tell you how it is. You know, that's really true. But, you know, a bit of a segue there is that even if you don't have blood siblings, I think it's really an amazing thing when people are able to find friends, friends.
or folks in their life that they consider siblings even if they don't share blood. Because what really is a sibling? It's what you're saying. It's someone who holds you accountable, who sees through your BS. Like I was saying, who uplifts you, who wants to see you succeed, just like those really rock-solid people in your life. They don't have to be blood. What you were saying really made me think about in terms of really leaning on people, and sometimes a sibling can be that person.
I was traveling in Scotland for a couple of weeks, and I was going through like a difficult period. I was kind of like having a quarter-life crisis, if you want to put it that way. And I was on this what's called Calton Hill in Edinburgh, and it's this beautiful hill with Romanesque buildings, and you're looking over the entire city. I am so confused.
No, it was so gorgeous. And the sun was setting and my brain was at war with itself. I was just having a really bad mental health day. And I'm sitting in this beautiful place and I'm like, I need to call someone. I'm alone right now, but I need to call someone. And I knew I needed to call my brother. Yeah. And so I called him and I was on this hill.
And I hadn't told anybody about what I was going through mentally and, like, you know, what I was feeling emotionally. And I just—I was like, hey, look, can I talk to you about this? And I was telling him how I was feeling. And boom, boom, boom, he's hitting me with advice, with insights, with, like, an analysis of what I'm saying that is just filling all the holes I'm feeling in my heart and in my brain, you know? Yeah. And it was such—to me, that was, like—
The best moment I've had with my brother in years. And he was thousands and thousands and thousands of miles away. But it really showed me that moment. I'm like, oh, this person gets me. And is always going to be looking out for me. Yeah. Yeah. And I walked home down that hill feeling a lot better. Yeah. That's so crazy. That's so good that you know that's your brother. You know that's your family. Mm-hmm.
When you get that affirmation, that affirmation, that feeling is like so priceless. Like you felt something and you called someone and they affirmed that. You know, that's amazing. Also Edinburgh. I was like, oh, I always see pictures from there. That's really funny. I really like that trip. So I was keeping it. I was like, what?
Now, we've got a story from Meredith Morrison that touches on a bunch of the stuff we've talked about. Feeling supported, helped, and maybe even a bit embarrassed by your sibling. She told this story at a Moth education event where we featured stories from teachers. Here's Meredith live at the Moth. So, the day that I was born ended my sister's four-year one-woman show. Laughter
And unknown to me at the time, it also began my very lengthy audition for the important role of supporting actress in her show. The trouble was, I was not what she envisioned for this very important role in her life. She had tea parties. I played tea ball.
She liked to arrive late to parties to, you know, have a grand entrance. I liked to arrive early so that I could know where the exits and the bathrooms were at all times. For Halloween, she was Cinderella. I was the pumpkin. She really was the bell of the ball, and I played handbells. He's quite good at it, F and G5. You know what I'm talking about. Um...
And she very much was a performer and was comfortable on the stage, and I preferred to be in the audience. That was until one fateful day in eighth grade of all the grades, middle school. It's a time to really go out on a limb. My two best friends, Megan and Kristen Hankins, the twins, they were in fact twins. That wasn't like a weird thing. I just called them. Came over to my house, and they rang the doorbell, and I opened it, and they're like,
We're trying out for the musical. And I was like, that is great for you guys. That sounds really awesome. Like, I'll be there. Let me know when it is. And they're like, no, no, we are trying out for the musical, the three of us. And I was like, no, that's not actually going to happen. But thank you for thinking of me. And they kindly reminded me that I owed them one because I...
made them join the bowling team with me. And so they were like, listen, as a fellow pinhead, you have to commit to this. And I was like, all right, I'll do you guys a solid. Like I'll be your third. That way you can audition and get in and all that good stuff. So we practice, we go to the audition. It happens. You know, the next day at school, we're waiting for the list to be posted, whether or not we get called back for a larger part. So we run to the list and we see
all three of our names are on it. And unfortunately, my overachieving self is like, well, I can't quit. My name's on the thing. I need to show up. I have to do it. So we go the next day to, no, I'm sorry. First, I go and talk to my sister.
So I opened the door to my sister's room. And it's almost like she set up, like, in her own bedroom, like one of those where you have the lights, like she's backstage on Broadway. It's just like her, it's already there. And every time I entered, I feel like she was always like, yes. And so I enter, and, you know, I'm standing in the doorway waiting for her permission and her acknowledgement. And I was like, Jen, like, I got a call back for the musical. And she's like, really? Really?
All right, you'll be fine. Don't worry. I'm sure they bring a lot of people back. It's middle school, you know. I was like, okay, thanks. Appreciate it. So I read over the script and I found this character. It was the pajama game. And so I found this character. I was like, poopsie. This is who I want to play. She has 15 lines, like enough to be like a part of it. So I might be memorable, but not enough where there's a large amount of responsibility. So I was like, all right, I'm going for poopsie. She's my girl. She's a good time. That's what I'm going for.
So we go to the lead callbacks and they give me the script and like, we want you to read for Babe Williams. And I was like, I know that role. She has over 200 lines and she's a part of eight out of the 12 musical numbers, two of which are solos. And I'm like, this is my nightmare. This is not who I want. I read as Babe and then I go home again, go into my sister's room and she's on her bed.
How did it go? And I was like, Jen, I don't know what to do. They had me read for babe. And she's like, who is this babe? And I said, well, she is the lead. She's like, like the lead of the, I was like, yes. And she's like, well, they just do that, Meredith. Okay, Jen. Um,
She's like, no, they'll have you read for these larger characters, but you could end up getting cast for a smaller role. It's fine. Relax. I was like, okay, good. I was like, I want poopsie. She's like, I'm sure you'll be poopsie if you even... Sounds like a perfect role for your first venture into this, you know, because she's a seasoned thespian at 14. So it is the fateful day where they're going to post that final cast list.
And of course, it's like chart paper. It's nothing crazy. It's middle school, right? So they wait to the end of the day because you don't want crying kids. You know, as teachers, we know you don't post things in the start of the day because then you have to deal with the repercussions of kids not getting in. So we all gather. We're waiting for the director, who is the band teacher, to post the cast list on the auditorium doors. And so all of us are huddled around it. And me, Megan, Kristen, the twins are waiting.
eagerly waiting and the crowd sort of starts to part and I see people starting to like look at me which was not normal I was kind of awkward like I like to blend in so I'm just must be someone behind me and everyone moves so I start obviously at the bottom of the cast list because that's me I'm like poopsie my girl she's down here and I see poopsie Lauren Wilkinson I'm like well that's not me who's this and I continue looking up the list and then I finally get to the very top Babe Williams and
Next to it is Meredith Morrison. And I start sobbing. The band director thought I was so overwhelmed with just like how excited I was. She comes over, she's like, oh, you're a babe. How do you feel? I was like, I didn't want the lead. I just want a poopsie. And she's like, this is not the reaction I was thinking you were going to have. And she's like, you know what? Go home, think about it, and then come back tomorrow and let me know if this is something you really want to do. So I go, of course, to my sister's room.
I open the door and she's like, she's waiting for me every single time. She's like, so was it posted? And I said it was. And then I start crying and she's like, oh, you didn't make it. You didn't get in. I go, no, Jen, I got the lead. She's like, what? The lead? Babe? And I was like, yes, I'm going to be playing babe. And she was like, okay, all right. She's like, well, where's your script? And I was like, Jen, I don't know if I want to do it. And she was like, think about it.
And I did. And I looked at her. I was like, you know what? I don't want to do it, but I think I have to. And so on opening night, I had my Britney Spears mic I'm very excited about. And the curtain opens and I walk out to start the play. And I look out into the audience and I see Jen, my toughest critic, sitting front row with a bouquet of flowers ready to congratulate me. Thank you.
That was Meredith Morrison. We asked Meredith how her younger self would describe her now, and she said, My younger self would be proud to see that I haven't outgrown asking a lot of questions of myself, others in the world, my love of learning, and wearing baseball hats backwards. Remember to check out grownpod.com for more info on the storytellers and the podcast. And you can always follow us on Instagram or TikTok at grownpod. We wanted to hear more about how siblings shaped people as they grew up.
So we reached out to members of the moths education community. Here are their voices.
So the best and worst thing about having a sibling, it's the same thing. I see myself in her, and sometimes that's really amazing and fantastic when, you know, they're good traits. But I think as a lot of us feel with our family, we also see ourselves reflected in our relatives' worst traits. But seeing pieces of myself in her is, it's like being in a mirror in the best and worst ways.
Being an only child is pretty cool. The biggest downside is definitely that
If you're without your friends, you don't have anybody to hang out with. Sometimes it's a bit lonely. I would say that the best part about not having siblings is that being an only child gave the friendships in my life a new importance because I was able to build a new family with the people that I chose rather than just with the people that I was with.
related to by birth. The best thing about having a sibling is that you always have a partner in crime for whatever you want to do. This summer, my brother and I started a garden, and personally, having an older brother, it was nice always having a personal chauffeur wherever I needed to go. But the worst thing about having a sibling is it always feels like your other family members are more interested in hearing about what's going on with them than they are about your own life.
Recently, my sister reached out to me asking how many tattoos that I had. So I mentioned I had eight at the time and I asked if she was interested in getting any. She said yes. And then she texted me a week later just saying I did it. And I was like, what do you mean? And she sent me three various pictures of the different tattoos that she got in one sitting. It's always fun to have a confidant when it comes to making impulsive decisions like that.
Being a middle child sucks. It's self-explanatory at that point. Ah, it must be pretty annoying to be the middle child. As a baby of the family, I sympathize. And as someone who was the bossy big sister, so do I. So, Fonzo, what's our next episode about? Aliza, we'll be talking about one of the worst parts of being young. FOMO. Feeling like you're on the outside looking in. Whatever you want to call it. It's awful.
Here's a clip. And we continue walking through the exhibits in an awkward silence. And I'm thinking in my head, I'm thinking, oh my God, she knows so much about relationships and I must be unlovable. And when I talk in class, I thought I was helping with the conversation and I thought my jokes were funny. Maybe I'm just annoying and stupid and horrible. That's it for this episode. Remember, no matter how old you are, you're never fully grown.
Aliza Cosme is a multimedia storyteller passionate about using the power of storytelling for social good. Her brother would describe her as bossy, but usually right. Fonzo Lacayo is a passionate creative from the Bronx who appreciates the art of storytelling and self-expression. His sisters would describe him as ambitiously rude. Okay.
Grown is a production of The Moth. Our senior editor is Sarah Jane Johnson, and our senior producer is Mark Sollinger. That's me. With support from our artistic team, including Jodi Powell, Suzanne Rust, and Sarah Austin-Janess. This podcast wouldn't be possible without our education team, Melissa Brown, Jonathan Cabral, Devin Elise Wilson, and Anna Stern, as well as our instructors, past and present.
To learn more about the Moth's education programs for young adults and educators, visit themoth.org/edu. Mixing is by Davy Sumner with original music and sound design by Davy Sumner. Special thanks to all those who contributed their voices.
The rest of the Moss leadership team includes Sarah Haberman, Jennifer Hickson, Meg Bowles, Kate Tellers, Marina Cliché, Brandon Grant Walker, Leigh Ann Gulley, and Aldi Casa. All Moss stories are true, as remembered and affirmed by their storytellers. For more about Grown, go to grownpod.com. Grown is presented by PRX, the public radio exchange.