362. Did We Just Create A Cult? Dirty Talk, Friendship, Business + Motherhood Chat with Alexandria Maria + Mel Wells
01:25:20 Share

I went through this internal battle of, I can just pretend I'm the same person and show up as I always have. I can just pretend or I can just be really real and whatever unfolds from that is going to unfold. I just resisted, resisted, resisted. When I fully just admitted what was true for me, that's when it felt like the path opened up.

Welcome back to the Boss Babe Podcast. All right, you've probably seen the length of this episode and we're like, what on earth is Natalie doing? Is she trying to become Joe Rogan? No, I am not trying to become Joe Rogan. No. So I did a live podcast recording with two of my closest friends in Austin, Alex and Mel, and it was so much fun. So I'm going to be doing a live podcast recording with two of my closest friends in Austin, Alex and Mel.

Alex has been on this podcast and she launched her own podcast called It's Upgrade Season. And to launch a podcast, we wanted to get together in person. We did a really small get together in Austin. We did live podcasts. By the way, if you want more of these live podcasts, DM me and let me know because I love them. It was really, really small. Maybe like 30 people, I think. All

all in the room that we normally would do the live podcast in. And we just kept it so real. And we got into every single topic you can imagine from businesses, motherhood, sex, you name it, we went there. And it was honestly like just having wine with my best friends and a bunch of amazing people in the room. We sometimes forgot we were podcasting. And so I asked her, Hey, can I put this on my podcast too? Because it was so good.

So we did two segments. We did the actual podcast and then we did a segment called Wind Down, which is the Friday episode that she releases. So I've actually stitched the two of them together for this one episode. Because I thought, you know what, this could be so good if you're going on a long drive or a long walk, you need a bit of a like...

energy uplift it would be a long one for you to enjoy so let me know what you think about a super long one and let me know what you think about the episode it's definitely we went there let's just say that let's not give anything else away we went there i hope you enjoy it and let's do more of these in person one's so much fun

I feel like we're all very on brand. So on brand. So good. So on brand. You're very elegant. Mel's got all this feminine. You look like a mermaid right now in the best kind of way. And I've just come as absolutely pink. Pink Met Gala I'm going to go for. Yes. Love it. Thanks, guys. Still here for upgrade season, baby. It's upgrade season. So welcome. Thank you for joining me. I'm going to start with a question that I've been asked so many times. Have we created a cult? Do we all live together in a cult? Yes.

I think the fact that when we all came here tonight, we said, oh my God, the whole cult is here, leads me to believe that yes, we are indeed in a cult. The best was Briwen. We've left.

It was like the escape energy. Okay, I'm kind of joking about the cult, but I do think we have a really unusual setup as friends and that we all live around the corner from each other. We have the village. So Natalie, I feel like you were one of the key recruiters into this. I'll take it. Talk to me about the vision. Was this purposeful? Was this intention-led? Okay, so it all began on my 20,

eighth birthday in LA when Alexi Panos, who's been on my podcast sometimes, she came to my house for my birthday and she was like, we just put a deposit down on some land in Austin. And me being me, I was like, I want to do that too. So I put this deposit down without even telling Stephen. And I didn't think we were going to end up moving to Austin. I was like, this would be a great investment. Sounds like a

COVID happened we were like we're ready to leave so I was like well great news we're building a house anyway surprise so that is literally what it happened that organically and then we started chatting and you decided you were gonna move to this same neighborhood and then well actually how did that happen we knew that we were moving to Austin but I told Natalie

we're looking for houses in Austin and she says there's a house around the corner from me that's up right now. Why don't I go view it for you? Do you remember? Yeah, but I don't think I like knew it was up. I think I actually like looked to see if there was any and found one. Yeah, you found it in a Facebook group. Yeah. I was like, I don't just know about it. I'm like, okay, she gets to live right beside me. So then I was like, I'll happily go view it. This is like the equivalent of I was in the area. Yeah. But I wasn't. But anyway. Yeah.

I didn't know that I was being recruited into a cult though. I just thought Natalie's found this great house that's in Austin and she's going to go view it for us and it looks great. And I trust her. And if she says she would take it, then I would take it. Hang on, had you not actually viewed your house when you signed the lease? Natalie had. I love this.

That is levels of friendship trust. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. You didn't even ask for videos. I don't remember even being much of an involved process. I remember you being like, oh, cool. I just remember you saying, I would take this if it was me. Yeah. And I was like, that's all I need. True. True. I like this. I like this. So we were living together in Miami at the time. Yes. And then you found out you were having Sky. Yes. And your now husband wasn't living in Miami. So you left me.

- You left me to go to Austin. - Well, I think I knew that it would only be a matter of time before you also got pregnant and moved to Austin. - True. - Did you already feel that? 'Cause I feel like you had no idea you were gonna get pregnant, right? - No, so my plan wasn't to get pregnant for like another year. - She manifested this whole thing. - Oh my God, literally. - I mean, we've been together all over the world. So when I was like, we're moving to Austin, I didn't feel like I'm leaving you. I was just like, this is the next chapter, by the way.

- She was just leading the way. She was like, "I'll go, give it a bit of time, you'll follow." - I never felt like it was goodbye. - Okay, that's good to know. - I mean, I just knew. - 'Cause it wasn't, 'cause I came. - Yeah. - I had a similar thing in that me and Jake then found a house in Austin and we were like, "We found this house in Austin." At this point I'm pregnant. I didn't plan on getting pregnant, that's the whole of the story, it's in episode one. But we were like, "We're coming to Austin, "we found this house and we sent you the house." And you were like,

you're so diplomatic about it. I can't remember how you phrased it, but you're like, I love that for you guys. And it's a bit far away. It was like a 20 minute drive, by the way. Oh, way too far. Yeah. And you were,

you were right you were like with a baby you're not gonna want to get in the car and like that is true yeah it's a faff so this is how it came to be I was like we're gonna look for houses in the neighborhood that are within walking distance and we're gonna view them for you how does that sound yeah and we're literally two doors away making that irresistible offer wait but let's look at we should look about the next step oh yeah so we we've just built a house do you wanna like

Who's going to announce this? You share it. We've just built houses next to each other. The next door. Next door. We share a fence. We fully share a fence. We're not codependent. What are you talking about? So we've got like a month. No, but the best thing was we walked with Natalie and Steve the other day and we were like, oh, great. We're actually even closer walk to you guys now.

So we're all getting closer. It's great. I feel like stroller walks are just way better than car journeys. Particularly when your son hates the car seat. It's funny because when I grew up, like I grew up in that kind of environment. I'm sure you guys did too, where you just played outside with your friends and you would walk in and out of neighbors' houses. And then I remember being old enough to move out and think, why would you live somewhere like this? Why not live in the city? It's way more fun. And then you have babies and you're like, oh, no. Yeah, they had it right all along. Yeah, I get it.

Like our parents really did get more right than we like to think. Oh my God. Sean and I walk all the time and we're like, if we were in our twenties, this would have been our worst nightmare. Yeah. You know? Yeah. 20 year old me is dying on the inside. I thought suburbia was where dreams went to die. And now I'm like, I am love. This is so great. We make pancakes on the weekend. You feel like another mom walked down the street with a baby and a dog. You're like, it's you. It's great. Do you know what though? If anyone in their mid twenties, like living their life is listening to this, it'd be like,

- They don't know anything about life, do they? - I don't know, I feel like, okay, I'm not in, I'm not on TikTok, I talk about this a lot, I know I should be, but I'm just not cool enough for that. But I feel like they're all into wholesome vibes, soft girl era. - Are they? - Yeah, I think we're in. - Who here's a Gen Z? Can you confirm or deny? Do we have any Gen Zers? - Okay, I think that speaks for our audience a lot. There's no Gen Zers to confirm. - You're kind of. - I might be, I'm 25. - Yeah. - So what, are we cool? - Suburbia, yes or no?

well my friends and me talk about doing like the same kind of thing like not a cult but just to confirm we're not actually in a cult we were joking yeah that's a cult better word better word yeah I could yeah I could see Gen Z as being into commune vibes yeah okay I like this living I think I think post-pandemic everyone's like when are we all moving in together and building like you know buying land together and living off the land like I feel like

we're not quite there, but I feel like that is in the atmosphere since COVID. I feel like it is now, but I feel like just post COVID, I had like a rebound fling with life. And I was like, I want to go to all the restaurants. I want to eat all the foods and do all the things. And now I'm like, oh no, it was quite fun staying home sometimes.

I love an 8 p.m. bedtime. Okay, but in all seriousness, we do have this really beautiful community that we've built together. We're friends, we're there for each other. What difference do you feel like it's made to both your lives and potentially through the lens of motherhood as well, being in the village?

I mean, for me, I feel like it's made the world of difference to have friends on your doorstep is incredible. I mean, we call it the bat signal when something goes wrong, when we need someone, you just put it in the group and within seconds, everyone descends on your doorstep and we're there for each other and we actually spend time and, um,

it's really nice being able to do that without a big hurrah of getting everyone in the car and going out and being at brunch spots and all those things it feels really really supportive and I also personally just in the season of life that I'm in love getting to hang out with friends without needing to make plans I love just that can we go for a walk today can we do a play date today like

Can we do something that feels really fun in this season of life? And we've all got a lot going on. We're all juggling so many things. And I think that feels really supportive. And then beyond that, you know, I think being an entrepreneurial mother and an ambitious mother comes with so many of its own challenges to have a community. I mean, bonus points that we all live closely together, but to have a community of all of us that are doing that,

is so invaluable. And definitely we have probably weekly breakdowns, but to be able to do that in a community with that level of support, I feel incredibly lucky. And for anyone listening who doesn't have that and does plan on, you know, venturing into the amazing world of entrepreneurial motherhood, I think looking to create that kind of community would be one of the best things you could do for yourself, your mental health, for all of it. Or I'm just going to say it could join Sierra Mama. Yeah.

Let's drop that plug. I'll plug that one. I mean, yeah, everything that Natalie said. I remember being pregnant and seeing like motherhood online and so many moms share how lonely it is and how isolating it can feel. And I was just really clear when I was pregnant, that is not going to be my experience. I want to be surrounded by mothers. I want to be in community because it's

community is the new currency. It's like everything to our health. And, you know, studies are showing that people who live in community actually live longer, healthier lives. And so especially in motherhood, like new motherhood, where everything is brand new, you feel like you've been reborn again and everything feels like it's crumbling and changing and evolving. Like to be with women who are on that same path

at the same time is invaluable. - I love that. I love that community is currency as well. That's so true. I was like journaling the other night on like what a rich life is. 'Cause I feel like my definition of that's changed

so much over the last couple of years and like to me so much of it was oh like I get to see my friends like I'm close by I get to read a book like I get to have like just relaxed evenings with no pressure and all the rest of it like it's these simple things and community is such a such a huge part of that and you both mentioned then about entrepreneurship and motherhood and

How have you... Okay, I'm just going to say it. How the fuck are both of you so fucking successful and mums? Because you work two days a week and just fucking smash life, literally. And you... I mean, Jesus, you're doing everything and you watch reality TV. I literally text Natty the night. I was like, can I have your schedule of how you're managing to find time to watch TV? I was like, how...

Both of you. How the fuck are you doing this? Please tell me. I need to know. Um,

I restructured everything when I became a mom and I've been really open about it. You know, the way that I was running my business was so completely unsustainable and I was ready to walk away from it all because ultimately it wasn't worth it to me. I'm super, super clear that yes, I'm ambitious. Yes, I have goals, but motherhood is my priority in this season. It's my priority in this decade, my entire, like that is what I'm devoted to.

And knowing that's my priority, I have structured everything around that. And I made the decision that I really truly believe I get to have it all.

And I often don't get to have it all at the same time, but what never changes is my commitment to my baby and my husband. That never, never changes. And then, you know, I will be seasoning through being in work seasons, being in very extroverted seasons. I will season through many other different areas of life, but I know exactly where my priorities are and know what I'm never willing to negotiate on. And I think that's really important. Mm-hmm.

Because if you say that everything is important all the time, that's where the overwhelm comes from. Because you tell yourself you should be doing one thing when you're doing another, or you're getting down on yourself for like not replying to the 50 texts that you've got, or not saying yes to this partnership, not saying you'll get so down on yourself for that. But if you come back to, I'm honoring my priorities for this season right now,

All of that feels a lot less charged. And I think that part's really important. And especially for those of us that before we became mothers, we would say yes to everything. Or we've probably all experienced that. And it's one of the things I don't think you can carry into this season of life, especially, you know, early motherhood when your babies are at home. That personally just was my choice.

Yeah, I feel like motherhood is like the ultimate filter for your business of like what is really a priority and what is no longer going to make the cut, you know, and some things are going to be put onto the back burner for a little bit and that's okay. And I think everyone's, every mother, every entrepreneurial mother's version of having it all looks different and feels different. And in my experience, you know, it's just about like really trusting your instincts.

you know um in the postpartum period I also you know experienced like oh this isn't gonna work how it used to work I might have to burn this down and start from scratch because I have to redesign this in a way that works for the type of motherhood that I want to experience and I'm not willing to put my baby behind my business like this is not going to work so

you have to like reimagine and redesign. And I think there is a death that comes with your business when you enter into motherhood. But what I want to speak to is the rebirth that happens is phenomenal. And that I've experienced in all of us. Amen to that. I'm glad that you completed that sentence. Thank you.

There is a death at the end. The rebirth, the rebirth is great. The rebirth is fucking amazing. And I know you spoke a little bit then about like putting baby motherhood as priority. And I'm kind of asking this as a loaded question, but like, do you think it's possible to be a fully ambitious woman, go after your own dreams, go after your own goals and be a fully present mom? It depends on how you define fully present. And it depends on how you define motherhood.

ambitious and going after your goals. I want to say, I would love to say yes. And when I think about me before kids, like fully going after my goals went like every day on saying yes to everything that Natalie said, like for me, that doesn't equate to me being able to be a fully present mom. And I want to just say that that's my experience of this. Yeah. That's how I feel about it. I love that. How do you feel?

I think similarly, I think it's going to look different if that's the case. Same thing, I could not compare the way... My business is bigger now than before I had kids, but I was doing it beforehand too. So my business is bigger now. I actually think...

A lot of the changes that I made last year allowed me to work a lot smarter and to find more creative solutions to get better at delegating. I think it really has pushed me forward in one way, but yeah, I feel the same way because I know there's also so much that I'm not willing to say yes to and so much that I'm not willing to do. Yeah. I think my business was always going to be on a growth trajectory and it's

It's actually grown a lot more, even so much this year compared to last than I probably could have ever imagined, but I'm not actually working more to make it happen. I think it's been a combination of many, many jigsaw pieces that were put into place and hiring really great people. And,

I just don't have time to micromanage anymore. And I also, quite frankly, don't have time for people not doing their jobs anymore. I had a lot more patience than I do now because if you're expecting me to pay you and do your job,

job I'm not going to do it whereas in the past I probably would have right like I should have worked a boss babe that's something like this in the past I mean I fired way too slow my expectations were lower um I would be willing to micromanage I wasn't as willing to have the hard conversations I think as a businesswoman I've grown with experience that happens but also knowing you know when I'm sitting at my desk that time I'm taking away from being with my baby and so I'm not going to skirt around a conversation I'm not going to cover when someone's not

doing a great job yeah so that's changed a lot and i actually think that was the unlock i needed to scale my business we often think that it's like a marketing play or something and i think a lot of it was me and and me getting out of my own way to scale my business yeah but i work nowhere near the amount that i used to work before i had noemi and i have no plans to go back to doing that anytime soon either i love that you share how your business has grown during this period as well because

I remember when I got pregnant, I had all these plans in my business, things I was going to set up before we got pregnant. And then we were pregnant. And I remember thinking like, oh my God, like I'm fucked basically. Like I've worked so hard to build this business. I was really scared of what, and it makes me laugh now kind of on reflection. I'm like,

wow, you were really, whoa, there's a lot of prioritization there. But like, I was so scared of what it would do to my business. And I remember asking these other moms and being like, hey, I'm pregnant. I'm scared. I didn't plan to get pregnant right now. I have this grand plan to put in action that I've not actioned. And on top of that, I feel so fucking sick. I can't do anything. And I remember all these moms being like, don't worry, babes, babies bring abundance. Actually like rocking. Yeah.

be like babies bring abundance, babies bring abundance. While some things like thrived and kept going, like I had built a lot in my business luckily up until this point, but other parts did just fucking die. And at the time that felt horrible. Like I, you know when they talk about surrender and it's like loosen your grip, I was not loosening my grip, I was like clinging on. And then as soon as I did actually let go and like give into that death and be like, fuck it. Like if it's gonna die, it's gonna die.

I get to go home I go home I work from home I don't know where that came from but like I get to change room and my husband and my baby are in there and I see my friend like that's fulfillment so like it's okay if these things die and I think it's only then I actually experience that like rebirth and that regrowth that that you're talking about yeah everyone talks about the quantum leap

but people don't talk about the death that comes before the quantum leap. And so I think when we have been through enough death and rebirth cycles in our life, whether that's in love, whether that's in business, whether that's becoming a mother, we eventually learn to trust the death. And we're like, oh, I know where this is going.

come on death this is this I know where this is leading me to so like the sooner I surrender to it the sooner I get the rebirth on the other side but the more I resist it the more I'm gonna stay in like this oh I don't want to be in the death I don't want to be in the death I don't want to be in the void I don't want it because I don't want to be in the unknown but when we actually like

release that grip and actually surrender to the death with the absolute faith and trust that what's coming on the other side is going to be beyond our wildest dreams. I mean, look what you've created. Like this is the rebirth baby. Like it was so worth it and it's here and it's like probably 10 X what you could have imagined when you were in the death and same for all of us. I would like to confirm as well. Mal was trying to tell me to surrender during this time.

I'm a Capricorn it's difficult yeah I actually remember just before I gave birth I had a coach she was like babe feel like you need a coach right now and I was like no no I do I do I do I just need to hire a coach and just do these things it's all gonna be fine she's like okay babe and then after I was like why did I have that fucking I didn't need a coach I just needed to let go so I appreciate your advice I'm sorry I didn't always listen I am now everyone else gets to benefit from this

You guys know I absolutely love Masterclass because it makes staying on my growth edge so easy and accessible. I've been using Masterclass for years and constantly going back because there are so many incredible classes to choose from. I'm currently going through Esther Perel's class on relational intelligence and leading teams really effectively. Being able to sit down, press play and learn from such amazing instructors anytime that's convenient for me has been a game changer and

I was really intrigued by Esther's class because I am a big believer that the quality of your life is equal to the quality of your relationships. And in business, being able to communicate

is everything. She dives deep into things like developing self-awareness and empathy, establishing boundaries, understanding power dynamics, which was fascinating, and so much more. So right now, our listeners get an additional 15% off any annual membership at masterclass.com slash bossy.

Boss Babe. That's 15% off at masterclass.com slash boss babe, masterclass.com slash boss babe. You may have heard that I recently co-founded a brand new company, Glossy, which is a skin routine you can drink. And I wanted to tell you a little bit more about it. It is incredible. It's this powdered supplement that you drink at least once a day. I'm personally a morning and afternoon kind of person. And it is so good for your skin and your gut.

One of the ingredients that I want to call out is probiotic D-111. So it helps maintain a healthy gut microbiome. It supports digestion and skin barrier function. It's also really good for helping to reduce any discomfort in your stomach and bloating. I swear by Glossy. That's just one of the key ingredients. We also have vitamin C, magnesium, hyaluronic acid, coconut water powder, sea salt, zinc,

It really comes from all angles to support you inside out. I love it in the morning. I drop in a hydrogen tablet just to really boost things. And then in the afternoon, I normally add some B vitamins. It makes me feel absolutely amazing. And I really feel the difference in my gut specifically.

I'm more regular. I'm less bloated. I just really feel a difference. So if you're interested, go to getglossy.com. That's G-L-O-C-I.com and use the code BOSSBABE and you'll get a huge discount off your order.

I would say my death was not pretty and it lasted so long. Like my postpartum experience of my loss of identity and not sure what I even want to do with my career, not knowing who I am, that was really hard. And even surrendering into it was really hard. It took so long to come out of. I didn't have the trust that something better was waiting for me on the other side because I didn't know anything different.

when I was able to surrender and like open my mind to it being better than I could have imagined things shifted but to even get myself into that point of being able to change my mind in that way was really challenging yeah and I think hormones are part of that as well oh my god massively yeah I know you've spoken about postpartum anxiety like we have all seen each other going through the postpartum hormones like and I think it is hard sometimes to

it's almost like a filter through you're seeing everything through is this big fog of hormones so like I think it is hard to go oh actually there could be something really incredible on the other side like I remember the point where I turned around I was like I feel hopeful for the first time in a really long time and like it doesn't come for a while for a while it's like

buckle up. Yeah. You know, and you know, you supported me through when I was in that death period, because for me, what it looked like was,

what business? I just want to be a stay at home mom. This motherhood is the best thing ever. Like, wait, I have to show up and do what I said I was going to do to my business. I just want to cover my baby. Like Sean, you just take over now. I'm good. Like, I just want to be a stay at home mom. And it's like nine months postpartum. I start to regain like all

Oh my God, no, I love my business. Like I love my work. And actually there's this new iteration of my work that gets to come through me as a mother now. And like, that feels exciting for the first time instead of, oh, I have this commitment that I have to do, but actually I just want to be with my baby instead. And so for me, that was what I went through. And I don't, you know, it's not necessarily everyone's experience, but like, it's a very real experience that I never really heard people talk about. And I was like, am I alone in this? I feel really, I feel like

Isolated in this is anyone else thinking this and like I felt afraid to talk about it online because it's like well I don't want to lose my clients. I don't want them to think that I don't care I don't want to be on this call But like being a mother has changed me so much, you know So and like nathalie said like every time you show up for a call It's like this is time that I could be with my baby So it's like if i'm not feeling like 10 out of 10 lit up then

Something needs to change. And I think motherhood helps you get into such deep alignment in your business, because if you're not in alignment, it's not worth taking time away from your baby. Yeah, 100%. You've got to feel so aligned by what you're doing, the message, the work, the offers, the way that you're working with people. Otherwise, it's really not worth it. I'd rather be with my baby. Yeah, I totally get that. I'm sorry, I can't hear you. What? When she said, I'm on this call.

That's killing me. Can you imagine showing up to a... You're taking time away from a baby, so can you keep your care across? I feel like that is every post-partum mother. I don't want to be here. Like, if we could... You said that, I was like, no, don't want to be here. I mean, there's honestly, there's things that have, like, shown up in my calendar, and I'm like, why did I say yes to this?

My baby. Oh my God. I love this. The honesty. Some things just set me off. That was one of those things. Oh my God. So with this in mind, now knowing, and this was actually a question that came up when I put the box on Instagram. I've got the giggles now. When I put the box on Instagram, this was a question that came up. Knowing what you know now, how would you have prepared your business for motherhood? Gosh, it's hard. I, I,

The logical part of me wants to say like I would have done more automations. I would have scaled more before I got pregnant. I would have ran more ads. But then I feel like what's inevitable when you become a mother is you want to change things and you evolve and what you're putting out there, what you have been putting out there,

gets to shift. So I think the biggest thing that I would say is get support. So like you need a team, like you need people that can hold the ship and steer the ship while you're on maternity leave. And while you're navigating, I would say monthly recurring revenue for sure, which I know Natalie is really big on as well. But I mean, I feel like it's gonna, it's gonna shift and change. And like the more we can just

I accept that the way that we enter, the way that we have our business before we enter motherhood is not going to be how we are and how our business is on the other side anyway. And I feel like there's this story of like, I just, I could have been more set up. I could have been more ready. I could have been more ready. And I feel like that goalpost always keeps moving further and further and further out. And so I feel like anyone could say I could have been way more set up because it's,

it's hard to prepare for something like motherhood because it's just changes every single aspect of who you are. So I personally would say like the suit that you can do all of that as much as you can. But at the end of the day, there has to be like a surrender, you know, completely. I totally, I really feel on that point of,

I think that was partially why I wasn't like planning to get, because I was like, I have this plan and I know what would have happened. I would have got to the January and be like, haven't enacted enough of the plan. Let's push it another six months. Let's push it another six months. And like, it would have constantly, the goalposts would have kept changing. And everything that I did in that time, I burnt down anyway. I ended up, you change so much. So like,

all that and and i will caveat this was saying i'd set my business in a way that had recurring revenue to tie me over for the next 12 months so like it wasn't like i just kind of threw you know burned everything down and was like oh what do i do now so i am grateful to that past version and there is an element of like i was so scrambling trying to work out what my business looked like on the other side and i there was it was pointless i remember this coming from seo mama actually like

I know. I agree. Same thing on the recurring revenue, the funnels, all the things. But so interesting because when you asked that question, I felt like I'd never really sat to think about it. And what I realized was, I've just realized this, I was so committed to motherhood not changing my ambition. I

I think that's what made my postpartum experience so much more challenging because I was under the illusion. I knew exactly who I was. Motherhood wasn't going to change anything. You know, I'd made all these commitments of when I was coming back and what I was going to do and all of that stuff. And I was just so sure of myself. And then I went through the portal of motherhood and everything changed.

And I went through this internal battle of, I can just pretend I'm the same person and show up as I always have. I can just pretend or I can just be really real.

And whatever unfolds from that is going to unfold. And I tried one and it really didn't work. And that made everything so much harder. I just resisted, resisted, resisted. When I fully just admitted what was true for me, that's when it felt like the path opened up.

But I just wish, yeah, we can talk about the funnels and the recurring revenue, but I wish I hadn't been so tied to the idea that I wasn't going to change. That I was still going to be the same person as if it was a badge of honor to be the same person, to be as ambitious, to be just as driven. Like that was a badge of honor. And I got on the other side of it and I thought, what kind of badge of honor is that? If it's not my truth, it's not a badge of honor. And that was just a really big wake up call for me.

- I love that. This has been a healing conversation for me as well, 'cause I remember that is part of it. I didn't wanna be that person who spoke about motherhood on my Instagram all the time. I didn't wanna like, I was really, stop to the heart. No, but I did. It wasn't that I didn't like it and other people did that. I was just like, this is me and this is who I am and I'm gonna stay this way.

And now, I mean, yeah. And I'm like, my feed's not going to be just like baby albums. Yeah. And then I was just like, I was just, my whole page became like motherhood. I had people, I had followers announce their departure being like, your whole thing has turned into motherhood and I'm not here for it. I don't let the door hit you on the way out. Like, this is how it is around here. Sorry. Fuck you, Sheila. Sorry for nothing.

I feel as though motherhood is the deepest metamorphosis that we can go through and like to just let it have its way with us is the most beautiful thing we can do because like

what else are we gonna do you know what i mean like what else are we here for like this is literally like we're creating life we're birthing life into the world and we're trying to not let it affect us i'm sorry what now that you say it though it makes sense true but honestly that didn't if you just said that to me before it happened to me i would have said she doesn't get me she doesn't know how clear how true of an identity i have she doesn't understand now i'm like

- Well, that's a lot of truth, but I just didn't, I wouldn't have gotten it. - Sarah, I struggled in pregnancy when she was giving me all this beautiful wisdom. And I was there like, okay, yeah, that's good for you.

I can't, I can't. Yeah. You were right. It's just so interesting. I mean, yeah, we all have different experiences. With everything though, isn't it so interesting when you hear the advice on the other side of it, you're like, oh yeah, I get that. But like without whatever transformation you're going through, unless you've really experienced it, you just can't, you don't get it. Yeah. With everything, not just motherhood, it's like everything's like that.

I was joking about this to someone the other day. Jake's actually in the audience. Sorry, Jake. But I was saying this. We were talking about relationships and I was saying one big thing I don't do in my relationship is coach my husband. And I've tried it before. And I was like, it used to wind me up because I would tell him something and he would completely ignore it. And then six months later, he'd be like, oh, I just heard this thing. And I'm like, what?

six months we could have saved six months here like i'm like the efficiency as well but like i feel like it is that thing it's that you can't always hear it until you i love you jake i'm sorry but it's true but you can't hear it until you're on the other side and you're like until you're actually ready to hear it yeah and then until you're until it's ready to actually land yeah because there's some stuff that i've like heard years ago and then i hear it now and i'm like

yes it lands for the first time properly and I just wasn't ready to hear it back then yeah I mean I even feel like that with you with I mean so many things like you just have a lot of wise advice but like even relationship stuff sometimes when you give me relationship advice I'm like no no thank you and then a month later I'm like you know she was right about that one

But you know, when you're so in it, you're like, I don't want that to be right, so it's not right. And then it lands, and I'm like, if I just listened to it again, I would have been more efficient. I would have been faster. Do you know, when you're saying this, there's one that stands out to me before, and I remember you'd sent like a voice note. I don't know if it was for me or it was for Natalie or someone else. Probably one of us. It was one of us, but you sent us a really wise voice note, and it was like, when you're in confrontation, try and soften. Oh, that's it. That always gets me. Try and soften. Always. Always.

- Two Capricorn best friends. - Like, what do you mean? Stop it, he's right there. - Whenever I'm so angry now, I'm like shaking, I'm like, "Soften." "Stop it, I can't do it, I need to go scream in a pillow for a while." But then, but when, but when I can soften, it's the best thing ever. - It always works, but it's so hard to do. - Yeah, how the fuck do we soften? Please actually explain this, 'cause this is tricky.

I typically think just entering into any confrontation or conflict or any area of tension, whether it is with a partner or whether it is with a friend or whether it is with a team member.

If we can just let our guard down and speak from our heart and just like allow our, like it's usually like our shoulders and our face, like our jaw and just allow literally our body to soften as we go in, we're going to get to a resolution way faster. When we go in with like tense energy and like, like so committed to being right and so committed to our,

defensiveness and our side of the street in our argument you're going to meet someone who's going to mirror that same thing but when you come in with softness and when you come in with an open heart and like dropping into the heart speaking from true desire from true vulnerability from true softness this is how I feel this is how this has made me feel and this is the story that I'm telling myself about this this is what I desire this is my intention for this

We're going to be mirrored that same thing back to us. Someone's not going to mirror like with their hardness, you know, they're going to be like, okay, she's coming into herself. And as I'm going to come into myself as we can meet each other heart to heart instead of wall and wall, you know? So yeah.

I think this is really helpful in relationships, just period, like any relationships and everything is always a practice. And like, this is always easier said than done in the beginning until we literally train it into our bodies of like, when we recognize I'm actually going to get where I want to get faster, which is to keep going.

to connection and resolution. Not to being right. It's a bit efficiency, right? It's about where do I want to get to? I want to come into connection with this person. I want to make up. I want us to be in connection. And when we say that to our partner, I really want to connect. This is my intention. I really want us to come back together. This is how I feel from that softness.

we're just going to get there faster, you know? And it's like, do we want to stay mad at each other? Do we want to prove that we're right? Do we want a point score or do we want to be in connection? We want to be in connection. We just don't want to admit that to ourselves in the moment because we're so committed to our cause, you know?

so my whole body yeah i mean it's right it's not easy to no it's always right yeah it's like i always think like do i want to be right or do i want to be connected like do i want to choose being right or do i want to choose love and

Sometimes when we are setting our partner up to lose, it's actually lose-lose. We get to set our partner up to win. We get to set our friends up to win. And we do that by listening and coming into our hearts. I love this. I feel like such a bitch now for the arguments that I have when I'm shaking in the corner. It's beautiful. My whole body's up and listening to that as well.

I feel like this has come through a little bit already and I want to talk to this. We are all incredibly good friends and we're all incredibly different and I feel like we have different approaches to life, to business, to motherhood. I'd love to just riff on that and hear both of your opinions on this and your perspectives on this because I definitely think, I'll speak for myself, growing up you thought the friends were the people who were the same.

And there was a lot of like almost like connection built on the sameness. And actually some of the most beautiful friendships in my life isn't built on sameness. It's built on contrast and having differing opinions. And I think luckily not speaking for myself here, I encounter a lot of people in the same way I'm being judged for this. I'm being judged by this for my friends, for my family, even partners sometimes. And it's difficult.

How do you think you cultivate and foster this environment of like having friendships and loving that everyone's different and also not bringing judgment into these differing opinions? I think the longer that you...

are friends with someone, the more you get to see all their different multifaceted aspects. And that creates just like more of a, like just you get to see their full humanity. And there's gonna be parts that like really align with your truth and there's gonna be parts that like don't, but like when you're judging someone, you're not able to like fully love them at the same time. And so I think...

As you get older, you start to just think, oh, yeah, that's that. That's the thing about that person. But I love them. It doesn't stop me from loving that person. It just makes me even love them more because it's like this person really knows who they are in the world. And I, I really value that in a person. Yeah. Yeah.

I think too, having a level of confidence in yourself makes a big difference. Because I often think if you're judging something in someone else, there's part of you that feels insecure about it. Like if you're judging someone else's motherhood, I think that probably lends itself to saying you might be insecure about the way you're mothering. What is it about that's triggering for you? Because if you felt super confident in the way you were doing it,

you would trust, I'm doing what I'm doing because I trust my instincts. And so, I mean, of course there's outliers in this case, but generally, you are friends with someone, you know that they're doing what's best in their instincts. And I think having that confidence in yourself lends itself to having confidence in others and you don't have that level of judgment. I think that's a really nice way to be able to have friendships of, and I would speak for our friendship, I feel like we all are so confident in ourselves

and we all truly deeply care about each other's individual happiness that it's never, we never feel like we scared to admit something, even though we all do things so differently. Yes. We're the same in some ways, but even in our motherhood, so much of what we do is so different and we have different beliefs even about motherhood. And I think that,

I think that's great. I think that level of confidence, but I also think it's so nice to be in community like that because I learn from it and it introduces me to ways of thinking that I might not have thought before. And it introduces me to think about,

oh interesting they do it that way is that something I want to try on and sometimes it's a no but sometimes it's a yes and I'll try it on and I like it and that feels like I'm expanding and growing because I'm around people that are different and that's really nice I agree I agree with that like when you're around people who think slightly different it's like like a really good learning opportunity otherwise you're just an echo chamber and I actually I

for this reason like I make a point of like listening to podcasts and people who don't share the same beliefs as me like with things like just things in our culture and politically and I'm like I

I want to understand this viewpoint because it's not my natural go-to viewpoint, but I want to really understand the way that this person thinks about the world because I think it's going to expand my awareness and help me be able to connect with more people and understand because we're all different, but we're all the same, you know? And if we sit down heart to heart, like I said, like with anyone with different beliefs,

we'd find that we all want the same thing. We all want love. We all want connection. We all, we just have different ways of getting there, you know? And especially with motherhood, like so many, we've spoken about our motherhood experiences and, um,

so much of our motherhood journeys are influenced by our own mothers and what we experienced whether that was positive and we really were inspired by that or whether it was limiting and negative and we don't want to repeat that and I think that's that's a really important unique aspect of every mother's journey and I really agree with both you there about the kind of like I think it's healthy

I think I love that practice of like listening to other opinions and I kind of want to bring that in a little bit more, but I think it's healthy because I think when you're, you've all got the same opinion, it's like you rile each other up. I mean, then it creates almost like a divisiveness where you become so riled up and so convinced that the way that you're doing things is the right way of doing it.

And then it's almost like this confrontation if anyone dares disagree with you. I think that would be a cult, actually. I think that would be more of a cult. I think we're good for not doing that because then I think it would be maybe a little dangerous. Confirmed, not a cult. Confirmed, not a cult. Okay, we'll tick that box.

You mentioned then actually about how your mother, your own experiences of your mother impacts the way that you mother. For both of you, what positive, what negative, like how has your experience with your own mothers impacted the way that you mother? Well, for me, what I witnessed in my mom was a woman who was entrepreneurial, creative and creative.

her businesses around her babies. So she created different businesses that she did from home and they were small businesses, but she literally made them work so that she could be home with us. And this was like in the 90s. So this was before the internet, before funnels and systems and ads. She wasn't on social media or anything like that. But she... Non-social media business. I know.

I know. She actually had, wait for it, a membership. What? For moms and babies. And she would send out like worksheets and packets in the mail for moms to do with their babies at home. No. That was her business. That was a big thing. And I got to like help her create all the activity packs. And like my dad was an entrepreneur as well. He was a psychologist. So I got, I feel like I got a lot from both of them. Yeah. But my mom,

Like I actually got to help her do the packets and like getting to be involved in my mom's business and feel like I was doing my bit and like seeing her do it all from home was so inspiring to me. And she was always with us. She was always around. So I never felt like I was alone.

missing out on my mom because of her work and that is something that's always stuck with me like i want to have an amazing business and feel like i'm living my purpose and changing changing women's lives but i never want my baby to feel like mom's doing that and she's never here you know so that that was a really positive influence on me and when i entered into the space of entrepreneurship i

I feel as though having that as a role model and she also pivoted a lot in her businesses. So she did that for a bit. Then she did like summer schools for a bit. Like in our school, she would like do the summer schools for kids in the school. And then she did like beauty therapy and aromatherapy and herbalism and,

I got to see that you can pivot and you can reinvent yourself and you can shift with your passion. And that, that has really influenced me because I'm a big fan of a pivot and a rebirth. And I believe that we are many, many things. We don't have to just be one thing. So I feel like that's been a really, a really positive influence on the way that I have entered into motherhood and entrepreneurship. I, I,

I didn't know that about you either with like the packets. That was cool to find out like, and your mum's such a legend as well. Although I was giggling because your mum was setting up the summer camps. My mum couldn't work out what the term dates were. Like my mum was the one taking me like back to school a day early and a day late. So it was just...

It was a different experience. Nassi, how about you? Different experience. My mum was a single mum. I'm one of eight. And I really remember, you know, she struggled to put food on the table. Some weeks, you know, struggled to pay for heat in the house. Like we really didn't have a lot of the basics growing up. And I remember...

her strength throughout it all, like has definitely been something that I've taken from her, which I love. And getting to witness that made me really want to be independent and have my independence and also have freedom to choose how I wanted to live my life. You know, seeing what she went through, it gave me a lot of empathy for what a lot of people go through because it wasn't a case of she could have set her own business up and scaled and all the things that we often talk about.

You know, she was really struggling to put food on the table. You are in pure survival when you're in that space. And so I just learned a lot about not wanting to be in that place, having an empathy for what that is, what that looks like and wanting to create something very, very different for myself. So yeah,

The way that I've structured really my entire life, I think has come from a lot of what I saw. You know, I make some financial decisions and I talk about this openly of always wanting to be in a place of freedom. You know, I've never wanted to be highly leveraged. You know, I do silly things like buy my house in cash and like things like that, that to other people might be like this crazy decision. And oh, you could, if you leverage this happens and you make more money this way and it's a silly financial decision, to me, that's peace.

And you can't put a price on peace. And I think about that kind of stuff. Like what feels peaceful to my nervous system is knowing that I'll never have to go into that place of security. I'm not having that. So I've made a lot of decisions that I don't feel like I'm making from a place of trauma, but actually from a place of this is what feels really good for me. And I want to create security so that I get to choose. My mom was home with us a lot, but that really wasn't necessarily a choice because childcare was way more expensive than what she would have got paid.

and I love that she was home with us but I would also like to have the choice I like to have the choice to go to work so that was just amazing to see that and I've definitely gained a lot of strength from it and just a level of empathy for what a lot of people go through because this is a lot more common than we like to think I exist in a bubble now and I don't see a lot of people like that so I like to get involved in helping people in that situation because it

is a lot more common than we think. 100%. And do you think that empathy is part of what's like fired you up to support so many women to create freedom? Yeah, I really, really deeply want to help women create freedom and independence so that they can make decisions for themselves and that they don't have to stay in perhaps abusive or toxic relationships. So they don't have to stay in jobs that feel like it's, you know,

they can't even afford childcare because the job's not paying them enough. I truly want to help women create freedom. And, you know, on the other side of it, I love working with women that are crushing it seven figures. And how do we scale beyond that? Because all of that has a big impact. And I

I'm so lucky that the women I work with all care about impacting the world. And I, yeah, I just, it just has instilled in me this sense of, you know, when you think about, would you go back and relive it? I don't know, but I'm so grateful for everything that it gave me. The level of strength that I have because of it has been incredible. And I'm so grateful for the way that my mom showed up throughout that and just who she is, is yeah, very, very grateful. I love that. What about you? This is such a good question, Alex.

So, for me...

- I think something my mom has definitely inspired in me is kindness. My mom is the most kind, generous person ever. She will go above and beyond. She literally texted me the other day. She was like, "I wanna bring some things over for the girls' kids." And she's just so caring and so loving. And I think that's really inspired me to fully show up in my friendships and my relationships in that way. If I could be a 10th as kind as my mom, I feel like I'm winning in life. She truly is.

And I don't think it was always easy for her when I was growing up. My mom was stay at home. She had had some businesses. She kind of slowly wound them up. It was property as I was growing up. And I think she struggled with it. I think she struggled. I think she had a lot of dreams, a lot of goals, a lot of ambitions. She didn't necessarily have the confidence maybe to go after them. And yeah,

Yeah, I think it's impacted me in the way that I just feel quite emotional answering this. I really want to fulfill my dreams and I want to do that. And it's the thing that makes me emotional is every time I do something, my mom's so proud of me. And she is very much like, wow, you show me what's possible. And like, wow, you've done this. And she'll like bring her business ideas to me and stuff like this. And in many ways, I mean, she was very successful in business. She had properties and that was incredible. I definitely just saw both sides of it. And I think

it feels very healing in many ways to get to be in that position now of like, we can do these things. Like you can have an idea, but you can also, you can make it manifest. You can make it real. Um, so yeah, God bless. Great.

incredible women and i totally see that yeah i see that too because when we think about our kids i mean you just want them to be so happy and and i know for me like when mine are older i'm going to totally be living vicariously through them and my hope is that i just set them up with enough confidence to be able to go out there and do the things they want to do and i really think that comes from us mirroring that to them if you can do that and and

putting that confidence in them because I'm sure I'm sure that's all you want when you get when you see your kids grow up you're like I just want them to be happy and do what makes them happy so yeah I mean I definitely thought I was going to be the hardest part of motherhood I was like you have to watch them make their decisions and you might think it's a shit decision but you have to back them and I was like I'm going to find that really hard and okay like he's he's like

nearly one so I won't speak to you soon but um I do feel like already I'm like god I love you so much and I know that loving you so much means supporting you in your decisions not what I think you should do or how I think you should be so like I can definitely see how that's gonna I'm gonna say that it's gonna test I wonder if there's mums of like 30 year olds listening being like yeah that's what you think honey he's living at home at 30 jobless yeah I love

this it's gonna be great totally so we're gonna wrap this part up we're gonna be back for part two which is gonna be the wind down okay ladies welcome to the wind down you both look a bit nervous you never know with alex okay so i'm actually gonna go for a question that we got off instagram first we i there wasn't even much phrasing around this question but the question was around and ask them about dirty talk

Mel's the one answering this one. No, at first I was like, where?

I'm not sure. And then I was like, Mel. It's Mel. Mel the honey. I didn't submit that question. No, no. But Mel's like the honey part. No one's coming to me for dirty talk advice. Me neither. They're going to say, how do I optimize my funnel? They're not coming to me to say, how do I optimize my orgasm? We know who the question's made for. What's the question? There wasn't one. How do they talk dirty? The question was actually like, talk about the village. And it was like, and about dirty talk with a chili emoji.

Well, that sounds like someone needing help and not even knowing how to phrase the question. Okay, first of all, are we into dirty talk? I'm going to ask that. Absolutely.

I'm into it. I'm here for it. Of course. I'm here for it. I actually coincidentally left a voice note to my inner circle, which Natalie's in today. Inner circle as in queen of hearts, which is like all about love and relationships. And it was specifically about Dirty Talk. There you go, Natalie. You've got training ready. You've got a voice note in your WhatsApp waiting for you. I did think you were going to say you voice noted Sean when you started that sentence. No, no, no. No, I had this download when I was...

involved in dirty talk with Sean last night and I was like must tell the queen of hearts ladies about this I love this this is really good to know I'm gonna tell them this they're gonna they're gonna value this

And you're going to have to sign up for Queen of Hearts, I'm afraid. I'm just kidding. No, I was thinking, so like a lot of the work that I do is around polarity and like masculine and feminine and communication. The way that we communicate with our partners, we can, should we desire to create more polarity in our relationship, communicate from a more feminine place. And when it comes to sex, I believe Dirty Talk is a really powerful foreplay, especially for women.

And when we approach Dirty Talk from, I thought dirty sounds, sounds so American. Dirty Talk. I'm losing my British accent. What would you call it? That's what I call it. Oh, it just feels like dirty. Yeah. I get you. I just skip the er. I go dirty talk. Dirty talk. Um, so.

When we want to communicate this in a more and create that more polarity, it's actually feels way more sexy when we speak into what we want them to do to us rather than what we want to do. Because actually being in the feminine when it comes to being in the bedroom is actually about receiving him in his fullness and allowing him to

claim us, ravish us, penetrate us, take us, right? A woman in the bedroom typically wants to be taken and chosen and ravished. She doesn't want to be the one ravishing. And so when we remember this, when we come into our dirty talk, it actually creates way more polarity, way more sexiness when we get to share this,

I want you to do this to me. I want you to take me like this. I love the way you do this. Instead of, I want to do this. I want to do this. I want to do this. It actually is way more sexy. I'm so glad you gave me a sentence stem then because I was going to ask you for one. I was like, give us a sentence stem. I want to. So it's not I want to, it's I want you to. It's like, I love the way you act.

Fuck me like this. I love it when you do this to me. This feels so good. You know, like I... Don't give him a checklist. He's saying, I want to do this. And you're saying, I want you to do this. I want you to do this. Instead of, and I want to do this back to you.

Do you know what I mean? Yeah. It's just more sexy. It creates more polarity. You're so right on that thing as well about women wanting, well, I think you're right on that thing of women wanting that, almost like that domination. Because when I was at this, we were at a sexy weekend, I don't know what to call it. Got flustered. Sacred sexuality weekend. Oh God, I'm cringing myself up now. This is why I can't be a sex coach. My God. Like blushing. But although

All the women. And there were some really successful women that were like, yeah, I want him to ravish me. They weren't like, I want to ravish my man. They were like, no, you take the lead. Exactly. And this is why I believe that under every high achieving independent woman who has lived a lot of life in that masculine energy is a woman who deeply cruises

craves and desires to just be taken and be in her feminine and be ravished and chosen and cherished and dare I say it penetrated by life love this penetrate me with life yeah amazing amazing so this was a question from these girlies and I love this we're gonna start light we'll go deeper but if you three were the spice girls who would be who you're giving ginger spice

Thank you, because she was my icon. I can see that. You're right. I would have said that. So I'm glad that someone said it. Thank you. Yeah, I love this. I'm going to say baby. Really? I could see baby for you. Really? Yeah. Interesting. I used to be posh when I was young because I had brown hair, but I wasn't very posh.

You can't be posh vice when you're from Stockport. I'm just saying. Nor Newcastle. I mean, I would say posh for you. Yeah. Yeah. I would say more posh. I'll take it. Yeah. Also because posh is a bit of a powerhouse. Yeah. Yeah. I like it. Yeah. Sexy, classy, understated, but like always on brand. Yeah. Thanks, you guys. I love this. I love this. I'll take it. Okay. That was a great question. Really good question. Yeah. That one. Yeah. That was a great one.

Oh, my God.

Who would have known? The husband in the room has the best question. I want to say, I want to just say a little bit more about you as baby because I just want to say like unapologetically like girly and just like a sweetheart and just the whole aesthetic of this is giving baby spice vibes. And so fun. So fun. So fun. Yeah, I want to have fun. That's my word. Sorry, I just need a moment. My husband submitted that question. So he slowly raised his hand.

his hand in the background as well like that was me points to Jake great question babe you can penetrate me with life later I'm joking I'll be knackered okay so if

Didn't. Okay, I'm going to be serious. Right. There was a couple of questions that were quite similar. So I'm going to focus on one of them. And this is through the lens of someone who isn't yet a mom. Okay. So if you didn't have an established group of friends to create your village yet, what would you do to attract them? And we had, we basically had like three kind of versions of this. So I feel like this is heart in your lady's mind. So let's go deep on this.

If you're not a mum, you're wanting to attract the village, you're wanting to attract online friendships. How do you go about it? I mean, if you are in the early stages of motherhood, go to the classes and the things actually happening in your community because that is the best place to meet people like that. But if you're not in that place yet, join online communities literally built for that because there are so many amazing online communities with these subgroups.

of other women asking for and looking for the exact same thing and you'd be surprised how much overlap in location there is or how much you might connect with like I literally know people in our community who connected became business partners moved like across the world to like run the business together and it's amazing what can happen when you find your people

So this, I mean, there's so many amazing communities online. Lean in. I can actually speak to that. Like, I actually think, I feel like we might have given the impression it's almost easier to do this when you're a mum. And actually, it's probably easier when you're not a mum in many ways, which doesn't say you can't do it as a mum because clearly you can. But I completely forgot about this. I went in the society when I first started one of my businesses and

And I didn't have any friends who are entrepreneurs. So I joined this membership. First of all, I randomly went to a Boss Babe event. Didn't know who any of you were. It was the one in London with Nick. And it was off a Facebook ad and it popped up.

And it was a 90, it was like a 99 pound tickle or something. And that to me at the time was a hell of a lot of money. And I was like, 99 pounds, I don't know, like, okay, I'm going to go. And I went and I had a product based business at the time. But I remember listening and being like, wow, this is an amazing online world that these women are creating.

And I went because I didn't have any friends who were entrepreneurs or who were doing anything. But I joined the society off the back of it. And I went in the group and I said, hey, I'm in London. I don't know anyone else who's running a business who wants to meet up in real life. I'm shit responding to WhatsApp messages. I didn't need more digital friends. I was like, who wants to meet up in real life?

And I remember we booked a breakfast table at the Riding House Cafe. And I thought like two or three people would come. We had like 25 women come. And all these women and we all connected. And obviously you're going to vibe with some more than others. But like I think that's such a testament to like

just go to it find go on eventbrite find events like go to events like go to the places online if it's not available to you physically but yeah what what would your advice be on this I just wanted to say I think I was at that event no but we knew each other no I think so no I will ring the bell oh my god ring the bell Nick was there years ago I think I might have come like with Nick or something oh my god oh my god anyway this is years back that makes me happy I can't believe it this is so crazy this is wild this is so crazy

I'm so happy to be there. Boss Babe's just bringing us all together. I know. Wow. I always think it's so weird to even like think that we were in the same space and we didn't even know each other. Yeah. I think that with everyone that I meet. That's crazy. I had that with Nick as well. Anyway, there's a thousand stories on this. I want to hear your advice. I would say like honestly like the online world has never made it more easy. Mm-hmm.

for us to find community literally based around what we want and what we want to grow in the areas that we care about. You know, there are, there are so many different communities that you can join now, whether it's a membership, a program, a course where you can literally find people in there that want the exact same thing as you. And they're on the same journey as you. And so I say, don't sign up to things and be a lurker, like sign up and get involved and like lean into that community and those connections and ask questions and get the most out of it.

And lean into the community aspect. I really believe like community is so healing for women. So many of us have sister wounds that originated in community when we were little. So the way that we heal them is to get back into community as grown women to heal together. And I would say with regards to the village piece...

I actually have in another inner circle that I run called Queen of Diamonds. I have a group of women in there who are literally creating their village together at the moment. And they're like, they've never met in person before, but they're like, where are we moving together? Let's like scope out locations. Oh my God. They all, they're not moms yet, but they want to be. They're all running businesses. And they're literally like, we all want the same thing. Let's do it.

Let's do this together. And it's just like giving me so much life. They're like researching different places that they want to move to. Like, it's so cool. And it's like, yeah, like we get to do this. We've never had as much freedom and opportunity to do that as we do now, especially if we have online businesses where we don't have to be tied to one place. A hundred percent. I will shamelessly plug you both because I think you're both fucking epic and I've been in both your community years.

both Nancy and Mel have memberships as well. Like got the goddess collective. We've got the society. Like you can find friends in there and moving away from the digital aspect for a second. Also check out your neighbors. Maybe like I'm friends with my neighbors now on both sides and they're a fucking vibe. I met this mom the other day at the swing. She has four kids and she homeschools all of them. I'm like, teach me your way.

I want to learn from you. And she's like, oh, I run this like Friday mom's group around my house. I'm like,

I'm gonna be there yeah not tomorrow but I'm gonna be there next week just realized we have a house thing tomorrow I'll be there next Friday though yeah no big deal you're just buying a house just met her like swinging our babies on swings you know get chatting to people don't be just like in your own little world I love to see who the extroverts of the group are because I've never met anyone in the neighborhood this is why I enrolled everyone I already knew to move to us

I would like to clarify, it was Jake who was inviting the neighbors around. That makes sense. Really? And then they came around, I was like, I love them. They're sick. They're great. Same as what we were talking about earlier, though. Like, we are also kind of in an echo chamber of like just the online industry and the space and the coaching world. And it's like, there are people that have completely different lives that live next door to us. And like getting to know them is like a whole different universe opens up for me because I realized, oh my God, all my friends are in the same industry and all my friends are entrepreneurs.

and work online and create courses and programs and memberships and run retreats. And then I meet someone who's like, yep, I homeschool my babies. No, I don't go to work. And my husband provides. And I'm like, I want to get to know your way of living. Like, this is cool. Like, teach me how do you homeschool four kids at once? Like, I want to learn about that. Like, that's cool. I can so see this vision for you. Oh, my God. That's so happening. Yeah, I can see it happening.

I love this. Okay. So I'm going to carry on because I feel like I want to get through as many of these as possible. Yeah, that dirty talk question opened up a whole different world of... I'm glad we started there. I got some advice, so that was great. Okay, I love this one. So what advice do you have for someone who has been recently impacted by a corporate layoff and is interested in starting their own business, but not sure what may resonate to drive revenue?

So when you're in that kind of space where you are interested in doing something, but maybe you do need the income right now, you don't maybe have six months to a year to figure it out and you're not entirely sure what the thing is for you. I always say put one foot in front of the other every single day and I promise you opportunity will show up, things you're interested in will show up, but it's when you're taking action that will actually happen. And so if I was in that situation, what I would do is I'd think about

what are the things that I'm really good at and what are the values and skills that I could add to someone's business or people that I know and I would pitch them on services. And for one person in one business, it might be totally different to the other person, but getting that experience, firstly, you're getting that cash flow in, which is really important if you're in that in-between phase.

But secondly, getting that experience doing different things, you'll often realize, oh, I actually love that. I want to do more of that. Didn't like that one so much. Here's what I learned about it. And I feel like that's been my entire career is just kind of saying yes to things, feeling into it. Okay, I love that part. I'm going to take that with me, but I'm going to leave that.

And then, you know, if you have to do some of the things in the meantime for cash flow, not feeling bad about that. Not every business takes off overnight. And when you're able to sustain yourself and figure out what it looks like to sell, to get someone to say yes and pay an invoice, those are really big milestones when you're venturing into your own business. So,

So anything that you can kind of flex your muscles with in that arena, I think is such a good idea. I love that advice. And that's really strong. And I feel like when we recorded the Boss Babe podcast, we spoke about this a lot about like other businesses not necessarily being your end business, but like some businesses aren't the end thing. They're like your bridge. They become your bridge. And then you work out what the next thing is.

Yeah, some people I think will sit and sit doing nothing because I don't know my purpose. I don't know my passion. I don't know what I'm supposed to do. And I think you can continue sitting there and wondering or you can get out there, try things on and find your purpose. It's something that happens when you take action.

action, not something that happens when you sit there and will it to come to you. Yeah. Hey, man, please do not fucking meditate on this like endlessly, like a little bit of meditation. Good. Like, no, get off. Go somewhere. Try something. Do something. You're going to work it out. Yeah. I'll just add to that on the other side of things. I heard someone say recently, you don't really know who you are until you're out of scarcity.

And so what I took from that as if you're doing things because you're in scarcity and you just need money, you're never going to get to really know who you are because you're doing things literally, you'll do anything to just survive. You know, you're doing work that you might not necessarily want to do. So,

I would say if this was someone that was coming to me that was, that had just got laid off, I would probably lean into like getting some type of part-time work. So you're not putting all this pressure on your new business to succeed straight away when like out of alignment. Because I think if you're receiving money for stuff that's like

really not in alignment, then you start to feel like what's wrong with me? You know, like nothing's working and it's just because you've not found your groove yet. And so I'm

I think I'm really grateful for all the different part-time jobs that I had going on as I was growing my business because it allowed me to really figure out what my message was and what I was doing without needing, I need money now. Like, what can I sell that's just going to make money? You know, I didn't have that. I like really found like, oh no, this is what I'm really fired up about. And I had the paychecks coming in from my part-time gigs on the side.

So I would add that such wise advice isn't spoken about enough. I think we're taught the message like go all in your business. And sometimes actually going all in is exactly what you said, like having some money coming in. But I now need to know what was the weirdest, almost wonderful side hustle you had when setting up your business?

Oh, I would have to say painting my yoga teacher's house and tiling his roof. I didn't expect that. I love you. I would trust you with my life. I would trust you with my child. I would not trust you to tile my roof. Thanks. What? What? What?

Yeah, I was living in America. I didn't have my visa. So I was doing cash and handwork. And I was really into yoga at the time. And I asked my yoga teacher, can I just do like any odd jobs for you? Basically, I'll work on your reception. I'll babysit your kids. I'll walk your dogs. And he was like, do you want to help with tiling the roof? And I was like, I'm totally down to tile the roof. I love this.

And I was actually studying to be a coach at the time. So I was at IIN and I had like the headphones in my ears listening to the seminars as I was tiling the roof. And I was so happy.

I had not a penny to my name, but I was the happiest person ever. I love that. You're giving me Kylie, I don't know how you say her second name, Kitech, you know, like the amazing woman on Instagram who like does all the DIY jobs. Oh, no, that's definitely not me. No, no. I was there to get paid. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

I was like, maybe you've got some tiling skill going. No, no skill. I think you probably had to get it redone after I did it, to be honest. It looked nice. I bet it looked nice anyway. Yeah, but you do what you've got to do. And it allowed me to...

dream about my business in a way that wasn't putting all this pressure on it. And then I was like, Oh, maybe I'm ready to get clients. And it wasn't like, I need this client or I can't pay my rent, you know, and then waitressing like three different restaurants worked in a juice bar, like yoga teaching, like, it was all because I had this, this vision for my business. And I didn't want to rush it or put too much pressure on it too fast. But I did set a goal.

And that was as soon as I did a lot of modeling work as well and promotional work and things like that.

And I said, as soon as my business makes in a month what I make from all this other stuff, I'll quit. I didn't say I'm going to have three months in the bank, six months in the bank, 12 months of reserves. I wasn't thinking like that. I was like, as soon as I do it in one month, I'm out of here. And I did. So the first month I was like, I remember exactly what it was. It was £1,500. As soon as I made that for my business, I emailed all of my people and I was like,

I'm a business owner now. I'm going all in. And that was all I need. And then I was like, I'm all in. I'm committed because I've proven to myself. I found the alignment and now I'm going. I love this. I love this. Natalie, what was your... Nothing that interesting. I dig people's social media. I've always been good at it. I love this. So who can you name and drop any people's?

I did Nick's. So cool. She taught me about this whole world. I didn't know, like I knew I wanted to be an entrepreneur. I didn't know anything about the online space or anything. And even back then, I was just very good at social media. And she was like, can you be my social media manager? I was like, sure. I've got nothing else going on. Don't ask what to do with my life. Sure. And I loved it. Absolutely loved it. And I did that. My business had fully taken off as well. And I was like, I don't want to let you down. So I just kept doing it. Like loved it. Amazing. Yeah. But nothing as interesting as tiling a roof. Good.

Guys, I ghost wrote cat blogs. Wait, what? I ghost wrote cat blogs. Cat blogs? Cat blogs. Babe, this deserves a whole episode. Oh, I've got a whole laundry list of weird jobs I did. Right, so, you know how you can have a ghost writer when you're writing a novel? Well, guess what? Cat blogs have ghost writers too. Oh, I'm living for this. I was a ghost writer for a cat. Like a blog on behalf of a cat? What about

No, okay, no, sorry. It's not for cat lovers. It was for cat lovers. So it was like, what's the latest cool cat contraption that they can, I don't even know what cats do, what do they do, scratch, stand, I don't know. I don't have a cat, I've never had a cat, but I could write a cat blog and yeah, I'd have to write about the latest cat beds and like,

See, there's so much you can do to earn money. Oh my God, so much shit. And then I used to proofread people's essays for uni. I could see that. I go through a cake blog, which I did really enjoy. Yeah, I could see that. That was fun. That all makes sense. Yeah, that all makes sense. Yeah, no, I flyered. I have so many things. I was once actually in a dressing gown promoting tiles at some kind of building convention. This is when you were trying to get your business off the ground? Oh, yeah. Wow.

Wow. Yeah, I hustled. I hustled hard. Oh my God. And I was a yes to many a job. Probably should have been a no on reflection. It was hilarious. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I'm going to move on now from my slightly weird job past. I love this. Amazing. Okay. So I'm going to do one final one and then we'll wrap this up.

And again, I feel like these two are pretty, there's a similarity through them. So I'm going to, I'm going to weave them together. So if you're letting go of the past in a new life stage, what piece of advice do you have for fully embracing your new life chapter when you're grieving aspects of the past? And the other question was pretty similar. It was, it was talking about this, the act of surrender, like going through the process of surrender. Yeah.

I mean, grief is part of it. Grief is part of it. And I think don't resist the grief. Let it take you like surrender to the tidal waves of grief. It's going to come and go. And something so beautiful is on the other side. And, um,

Trust the unknown, you know. So many of us like try and grip to control because we're afraid of what's on the other side of something crumbling. And every time, time and time again, we see this pattern in life, which is the crumble,

The rebirth, the death, the rising, like the phoenix from the flames. And it's like trust in like life's patterns are also happening and present in your life. Whether it's in your love life, whether it's in your business, like it's happening. It might not be happening on your timeline, right?

but it's happening. So trust the grief, let yourself grieve, like let yourself feel it all like, oh my God, this is what it feels like to like be, have my heart broken open into a million pieces. Like, let me be with it. Let me feel it. Because the sooner that we feel it instead of resist it, we get to move through it. We get to dance with it. We get to come out the other side into this

beautiful new expression of ourselves whatever that might be I love that I feel like it's reminding me of your phoenix tattoo yeah and it's because of a rebirth big one I remember that one that was that was you wrote the book of how to do that thank you it was epic

Last year, I feel like I went through some really intense grief. And one thing that I really had to make sure that I did was not rush into the next to kind of pretend it wasn't there. Like I really and I try like I definitely noticed myself falling back into that pattern of like doing so I don't have to feel and just allowing myself to slow down to like

take a pause, even though I didn't know what was on the other side of it for me, I really just allow myself to slow down and be in all of those feelings. And that's also quite challenging to when you run a business and a lot of people want answers from you, because that's important to them. That was really challenging to go through that level of grief and change in my life, while also trying to take care of other people. And I really had to just let go of

of that, of what other people needed from me and just do me. And that was really challenging at the time, but I kept bringing myself back to that. I reached out for a lot of support. Like I brought in an amazing therapist, a really good coach. I was really honest and open with my friends about how I felt. I took breaks from some friends. Like I just did the things that I needed to do for me. I went to Europe for three months. Like I just did the things that felt good. It

without needing to know what the answers were on the other side of it. And I think that's the power. That's like what you're saying, Serena. We can almost want to jump to the next chapter to know that we're going to be okay. Whereas when you have that trust in yourself, that it's going to be okay anyway, then you can slow down and really allow yourself to feel all of that. And I do feel like feeling it all allowed me to properly close the chapter and move on in a higher energy and move on in a way that felt complete and felt good.

And I think both of you spoke about this kind of the grieving process. And when you hear it from this side, when you're on the other side of it, it sounds quite beautiful. And I just want to speak to you like when you're in it, it's messy as fuck. Like grieving can look like for me, it's always like sitting on my hallway floor and I'm like,

Like having a full blown, I need to be on the floor for some reason. Maybe it's grounding. I don't know. But like sat on the floor crying and it's ugly as fuck and it's painful as hell. But I really notice in those moments is that like, even if it is like 0.001% of me,

is there that small, small part of me that can see actually something better might be coming? And it might be tiny. It might be like tiniest wisp in that moment and that really messy, ugly moment. But that's the bit that you get to grasp onto. And that's the bit that you get to realize like, oh no, I'm going through the messiness right now. I'm having this, this death, but like, there's going to be something great on the other side.

And in that too, you know, I think it's important to name when you're going through something like that, when you're going through a big life change or grief,

in that setting, you can often think, did I make the wrong decision? Oh, maybe I regret what I did now. Would it be easier if I stayed in that situation? Or I shouldn't have? It can be very easy to let all of that come up. And that's just the fear. And not allowing yourself to buy into that and go backwards is really important. Yeah, because that just prolongs this journey. There were so many moments I caught myself in that wouldn't be easier if I should have

and I just had to catch myself in it. No, actually the shortcut is going through it directly, not allowing myself to keep going back. Yeah. I remember you saying this to me as well. Like again, good friend giving amazing advice and me just being like, yes, this feels great and not quite following it. Though I remember you saying like, you need to pull the arrow back right now. Like it's easier to be doing and doing and doing and going and going and going, but you need to pull the arrow back. And I was like, I know I need to do that, but

putting that into practice was a complete it was so alien it was so difficult I think we're often in that pattern of like as you said just like moving forward and doing rather than taking that moment to just like be in be in a winter be in be in a stillness yeah and I also just want to speak to like when we're in that death period when we're in that winter

is actually such a rich time for introspection and intuition. And if we're trying to rush forward into the next phase, we're thinking, oh, all the goodness is when I get out of the death season. And actually like a lot of the goodness is in the death. And like, if we can really recognize, oh my God, I'm in a death portal right now. Like instead of like, I want to get out of here. Like, oh,

Like, oh, wow, like this is what it feels like. What's here for me? Because my soul wants to learn something in this death portal. So let me make sure that I, you know, I always think of like swimming underwater and like you're in this like murky bottom of the ocean. But there's like crystals on the bottom of the ocean that you need to like pick up and

get and like take into your like life journey. So it's like, what are the lessons that my soul came here to learn in this specific death portal? Right. So not like I should have done this differently, but like, what am I meant to learn from this experience? What actually is something for me to take responsibility for?

For me to either clean up or learn from for next time. So this doesn't become a repeating pattern. Something that I'm learning in my leadership, something that I'm learning about relationships, something that I'm learning about friendships, something that I'm learning about myself, something that I'm learning about boundaries. And like that richness of guidance is only available in the death portal, you know? So like be there and stay there and be with yourself long enough to really allow these lessons and this wisdom to be revealed to you.

Oh, the way you described that when you were like picking the crystals in the murky water was like so, so, such a beautiful image. But it's so true, like getting those bits of wisdom and taking them with you. I'm going to wrap this up because I feel like I will literally talk to you both for hours and hours and hours and hours. I love and adore you both so, so much. There are literally no words. And I'm so grateful to get this time with you both.