Episode 400: Bonus: When defeat becomes a blessing in disguise
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Hey Habit and Hustle listeners. Today we're playing you an episode from another podcast we think you'll like, which is called Side Hustle to Small Business, created by Hiscox. In this episode, you'll meet an entrepreneur who started an educational summer camp and turned it into a full-fledged math program that helps students, teachers, and educators.

Listen to the Side Hustle to Small Business podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. New episodes every Wednesday. Welcome to the Side Hustle to Small Business podcast powered by Hiscox. I'm your host, Sanjay Parikh. Throughout my career, I've had side hustles, some of which have turned into real businesses. But first and foremost, I'm a serial technology entrepreneur. In the creator space, we hear plenty of advice on how to hustle harder and why you can sleep when you're dead.

On this show, we ask new questions in hopes of getting new answers. Questions like, how can small businesses work smarter? How do you achieve balance between work and family? How can we redefine success in our businesses so that we don't burn out after year three? Every week, I sit down with business founders at various stages of their side hustle to small business journey. These entrepreneurs are pushing the envelope while keeping their values. Keep listening for conversation, context, and camaraderie.

Today, we're speaking with Jalila Frazier, the founder and CEO of Frazier's Mathematics Solutions, an organization that provides comprehensive training of mathematics teaching and learning for administrators, teachers, and parents. Jalila has worked with children and young adults of all ages and recently created the Dope Math product line of various school supplies. Jalila, welcome to the show. Hi, thank you for having me, Sanjay.

So I'm excited to have you on because, honestly, math is like one of those subjects that people don't actually talk about that often. They always talk about it in a scary way, and I feel like we're not going to talk about it in a scary way today. But let's first start out with you telling us a little bit about you and what got you to where you are right now.

Absolutely. So again, thank you for having me on. I'm so happy to talk about math today in a very positive, affirming light, because that's extremely important if we are going to educate the next generation of leaders. We need them to have mathematical mindsets and be very powerful with it. So we have to start very, very and be intentional about how we talk about mathematics.

So what got me started is I was born in Trinidad and I came up here when I was a baby. I came to New Jersey when I was a baby. And I was very like always ensuring that

I was at the front and center that I was always learning something that I needed to learn. I was very pushy, according to my mom. And it would be times that she would give me help with something like walking up and down the stairs. And I would be so upset because she's holding my hand and I would let her hand go walk all the way down the stairs and walk back up by myself.

And to this day, this is the things that I know that I do in this space of math education. I'm very pushy and I don't take no for an answer. So when a student can't get access to information, I'm that person. I am that this company is made for that. So sorry, I kind of went back, but

I was came up when I was a baby. I was very smart in school. I graduated valedictorian sixth grade, my middle school year, as well as my high school year. But when I got into college, Seton Hall Prep, I experienced my first failures. And those failures were in math classes. I got C's and then even I got F's. And I felt very small, one, because I was the only black student in my math classes. I went to school for applied mathematics. So I was only the only black girl.

And with that being said, I wasn't able to to create some type of community and be able to create study partners and so forth. And so I also felt small because the professor made me feel like I wasn't smart because I wasn't getting good grades. And I lost a lot of my academic scholarships because I failed classes and I had to start over. But, yeah, I lost those scholarships. I couldn't afford the school.

And so I had to transfer to Temple University and it was there that I began to flourish and began to kind of declare, no, I am smart. I knew I'm smart. I know I have the aptitude. So I redeclared my major to math education, no longer applied mathematics because it was important for me to make sure that no other student felt the way that I felt, felt small and show students that although, you know, something may be challenging,

They can do it if they believe in themselves and know that they have the aptitude for it. Then I finally got my master's at Columbia in math education, and I went back home full circle to East Orange so that I can educate the next generation of leaders. And that's my journey on the education side.

Yeah. So it was it was really kind of a blessing in disguise that you were overwhelmed and did poorly in those math classes and kind of gave you that fire. And I think we see that a lot of times with entrepreneurs is that there's this this event that happens that gives them a fire of like, I need to solve this because I don't want anybody else to go through what I did. Yep.

Was starting your mathematics solutions company, was that the first time you've done anything entrepreneurial or did you do something when you were younger or a kid?

hustling, selling stuff, doing anything like that? No, the most I did was I did people's hair, but it wasn't anything that I like. I didn't really accept too much payment for it. It was, hey, can you do my hair? No problem. And then someone decided that they wanted to pay me one time. But entrepreneurship, I had no idea. I didn't even know I could do it.

Yeah. Was this anything in the family? Did you have parents, siblings, anybody else that was an entrepreneur? So my dad, he was an owner operator for a trucking company for a very long time. He worked for the trucking company. But even when he decided to become an owner operator, I didn't really understand that that was entrepreneurship.

I didn't understand that that's what that was, you know, until I got into that space and started reflecting like, oh, my dad was an entrepreneur. So we were able to like have a lot of conversations after that about both of our journeys. Yeah. So, okay. So you graduate from college, you start teaching, you go through that process. You think that,

You're going to be a teacher always. You're going to be an administrator. What was your initial thought process of what your path was going to be? I was going to be the superintendent of a school district. I wanted to be the superintendent and create policies and things like that. When I started teaching, oh my gosh, I love teaching. I love my students. I was 23 teaching 10th graders. All

already there was like a close age gap. So we were able to build relationships. I taught for four years, um, anywhere from geometry, algebra to pre-calculus, um, you know, all those high school subjects to talk physics as well. Um, and then I came out of the classroom to be like a data coordinator. Um, it's just a school level kind of, um, support. And then I was promoted to be a district math supervisor. So, um, at the age of 28, uh,

I was supporting at least 100 teachers at any given time, making sure that they know how to teach mathematics well, making sure that the curriculum is aligned, ensuring that we are treating students properly and centering them and so forth. And it was a lot, you know, but that's kind of what I did in that role in that capacity. Yeah.

So what was it that made you think along this path of like, yeah, I don't want to be the superintendent and I want to do my own thing. What was it that caused that jump? When I came out of the classroom, I was no longer directly connected to students. And although it was fun in a new role,

It wasn't fun not being around kids. And I had to really make a decision. Is this what I want to do? Because kids bring something out of me and just helping them or them helping me. Like you can't you can't compare. You can't describe. So it started becoming a little lonely. And by the time I was maybe in my fourth year at the district, my supervisor said,

my wheels started turning. And I said, I need to find a way to still be in front of students more often, but still be able to be in a leadership position so that I can support teachers. And so

I decided to let me make a STEAM summer program. So I made a summer camp. Just on your own outside of the school? Outside of the school. I had 20 days of vacation. So as an administrator, you can get 20 days of vacation, right?

And with those 20 days, I strategically planned my summer. So I still had to like be at work because I couldn't take all 20 days during the summer. So I took like the first two weeks off. And then after that, I would take like half days because the summer program, it was a full day. But I had a I had a teacher that helped me teach the course and so forth. So I would just come in at the back and make sure everything is good. So I was strategically using my days.

And let me tell you something, that was probably the best summer because I was in front of students and we were doing like we were going trips to New York. We would visit the MoMath. We did a lot of STEM illumination labs is what we call them. They learned about STEM. They learned about mathematics. We had 24 competitions. We did a lot of arts infused pieces, too, like they learned about glass blowing and

it was very much successful and backed by the community. I'm just so grateful that I had so many people in my corner just, you know, cheering for me, asking about, hey, can I get my child enrolled? And it was amazing. And from there, I was like, oh, okay.

okay, let's do this. I want to sign up for the summer camp because I want to go on a trip and learn glassblowing. It was amazing. It was dope. You might need to do this for adults too now, I think. Okay, so you did the summer camp. It was obviously a success. Was that the first like, hey, wait a minute, I should go and do this full time? Was that the thing that tipped you over? So,

No, that didn't tip me over. As I was preparing the next year for the summer program and it was going well, but I realized that there was a lot of work to this that I knew wouldn't be sustainable.

Like I didn't see it repeating itself in other communities. I didn't see how, you know, because there's a lot of legwork with it. So I still did the summer program, but I was like turning my wheels. How do I impact more students and make it sustainable and make sure that there are ways to get to more without extending that amount of effort? So that was what I was trying to figure out. And then I said, you know what?

Let me start like I love professional development. So let me start thinking about it. So that was 20. So 2018 was the first summer program. 2019 was the second. And then as I'm planning for like next year, COVID hit and COVID hit.

You know, unfortunately, we lost so many different people, my uncle included, rest in peace. But it did allow me the opportunity to really sit back and design the company the way I saw fit.

So we designed Frasier's Mathematic Solutions to be a top-tier professional development company. And the STEAM services were a math culture add-on. So we could still do STEAM programs and STEM programs, but we would do it infused into school climates. Yeah. So the pandemic really kind of gave you the time to sit back and think and design. So when did you actually launch the company?

So the company was launched in 20, well, I incorporated it in 2017. Right. And then in terms of- But mainly for the summer programs, right? For the summer program, yep. Right. So that was 2018. But launching that department or that service of professional development, we had our first district-wide contract in January 2021. Okay.

OK, so 2021 was our first contract. Shout out to Essex County Votek schools. Shout out to Carmen Morales. She was the principal at the time. And shout out to Janabo because they saw something in us and they wanted us to support them and their teachers. So, yeah. Yeah.

So when did you exit your full-time job then to do this full-time? My risk-aversary is what I call it, was June 4th, 2021. June 4th, 2021, I resigned from my cushy six-figure job and said, it is time for me to take a chance on myself. So you signed the contract in January of that year. You waited a few months. Yes.

To be like, hey, let's make sure they don't cancel a contract. And then you quit and went full in. No, that's not actually what happened. I was planning on being able to support, still work and do the contracts because I have professional development providers that support me. They're called math illuminators. But at my current job, you know, full transparency, there were a lot of things that was happening that I felt like I wasn't valued.

Yeah.

Yeah, because you were able to focus all your time then at that point. So I'm sure things that flywheel got faster. So, OK, so you started the business, you did the things, then you got the big contract and then you resigned and went all in. In this process, was there something that made you nervous about what you were doing? Were you worried about everything? Everything.

I was at everything. I mean, I'm used to having my bills on auto pay because I know I was getting paid on the 15th and the 30th. Now I'm sitting here trying to figure out how do I move funds around? How do I invest in myself? How do I make sure that I keep my, you know, certain things and everything made me nervous. What also made me nervous was

hey, do these people really trust me? Do these clients trust what I'm saying? Am I going to provide quality service if I'm not the one that's given it? Because I know if I'm given the professional development, oh, I know how to do that. But am I imparting enough knowledge and trust in my team so that I don't have to be there? And then when they provide the service, they feel like it's an extension of myself.

Yeah. Yeah. How many how many people did you at that point? How many people did you have that were working with you? So there was one there were two people that were internal staff. So they were employees. And then there were about three professional development illuminators that would do the workshops.

So what did you do to make sure, so you've got all the materials, you know the process of how you're going to teach these things. How were you making sure that they were doing it the same way that you were doing it?

So we made sure that we did like quality. So beforehand, we do model lessons. So every new illuminator has to do a model lesson with my manager of curriculum and training. And then they had practice time. Then we came back. We did dress rehearsals so that now they can show us what they did. We get feedback, lows and grows. We have forums to provide the feedback. We record.

and things like that. And then when they go to deliver the workshop, depending on if we feel like they're ready, they may be the lead illuminator and I might just be there as an observer and providing feedback and so forth. Or, you know, my manager of curriculum and training will be there to provide that feedback. So there's a lot of touch points in there because we wanted to make sure that, you know, the client gets what they asked for.

Yeah. You said a phrase in there, and I want to dig into it and make sure I understand what it means. You said lows and grows. Explain that to me. Glows and grows. Glows and grows. We give them glows, things that they did well, and we give them grows, things that we would want them to work on. And we implement that throughout a lot of different systems, like even in interviews. I did an interview today for a third-round interview for a new role, and I gave them glows and grows, whether or not we're going to invite them

to the role or not, I think it's important for people to get real tangible feedback. And that's just an educator piece. Yeah. So you gave that feedback in this interview at the end of the interview, like before they left. So before they...

Honestly, I think that is fantastic because I think we've all been in that place. I actually had something similar happen to me when I was doing my first startup and I was raising money. There was one particular group that we were pitching to raise money. And at the end, they went around the table and told us what they liked, what they didn't. And walking out of that room, it wasn't a...

us looking at each other like, I think it went well. Do you think it went well? Instead, we were like, this is what they thought. So we know exactly where we stood. And so later on when they made a decision and it came back to us, we're like, okay, yeah, we understand. Because we had the feedback already. And that is fantastic. I don't know that enough people do that. And I think doing that would be just so much better for people to understand kind of what

why they're succeeding or failing in terms of the things that they want to do. I mean, when you center people, right? So when, think about a student and they're taking a test, they get their test and it's just a grade on the test. Okay, good. That's a great, but they need real feedback so that they can know like what it is to improve. Everyone wants to improve. There's no one that never not wants to improve, right? There might be different levels of, of how they enact that. And so as adults,

If you're if you're really you made it to the third round, that's your time. It's not just my time being right. And it's your time. We want to send you to. And this is the first model of what to expect that if you are in our ecosystem, we do hire you, that you are providing that same quality time and service to our staff.

as well as the clients. So don't say you've never been, it's never been modeled because. Yeah. Yeah. I think this is a fantastic area to kind of discuss with you. I love this, the things that you're doing. Personally, what I do is whenever I'm doing things and people tell me, oh, I love what you're doing. I actually ask for negative feedback. I ask them, what are all the things that I did wrong? When I do a speech or a talk somewhere and, and,

And invariably people, oh, I love what you had to say. And it's like, I actually don't want to, I don't care about that so much. I only care about what I did and said that was wrong and bad because obviously I tried my best. And so if you can tell me all the ways that it didn't connect with you and you thought it was a miss, then maybe I can make that better the next time. So glows and grows, I think is now a part of my vocabulary. I'm going to be using that. I really love that.

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Let's shift a little bit and talk about owning and managing the business kind of originally as a side hustle. Now it's a full-time gig. How did you manage the stress of dealing with all of that? Because there's a lot of stress. And I mean, just that first summer having to work and do half days and run back and forth, like how did you manage the stress and how did that work for you? Yeah.

a side hustle and turn it into an actual business that's having profit. Managing the stress, you have to love what you do. I don't care what anyone says, right?

It will be stressful whether you love it or don't. But the perseverance of it and you deciding whether or not you're going to quit versus you're just going to take a little time to recollect yourself, you'll always keep going. So how did I manage it? I think for me, I was always very, very clear about systems. So even in my when I was a district math supervisor,

I realized that because it's the wheel is so large, right? The circumference of your influence has to be reached to every teacher in various schools, right?

How do you optimize? How do you make something a systematic process? How do you teach people to make things systematic? And so I took that into this company. Building the foundation was extremely important and making sure that I'm legally compliant with things is important as well. So those are my first two things, legal and systems. But now I think managing systems

It's everything to do with how do you replace yourself? How do I replace myself so someone else can be the leader in that role so that I can work on another part of the business? And so...

That in and itself is a lot. So making sure you have standard operating procedures, even for the smallest things like them as an educator. Right. There are educators that are very high functioning. They get the information and they know exactly what you want. And there are educators that.

that needed spelled out for you. And so I learned that very early that if I don't clearly explain things and have it written down in more than one touch point, then we won't be able to be successful. So I use that even here. We make everything very granular level. We make it step one, step two, step three, and very tasky, but it shows the larger picture of everything. So I can take a vacation now.

And I know that a standard operating procedure is happening and they have all the tools that they need. Yeah. But by the way, it's only a math teacher that would talk about their reach and say circumference of their reach. I think you really have hit on your brand there by using that kind of phrasing. I didn't even notice that. Yeah. I

I don't think I've ever heard anybody else say the circumference of their reach other than you. So I love it. I love it. It's totally on brand for you. Okay. So talking about...

this and like balancing the business, how do you balance your business with family life and personal commitments and friends and, and talk about setting boundaries for yourself? Because as founders, you know, what we do can bleed into everything that we do. It could eat 24 hours a day up if we wanted to. Like, how do you think about those things and how do you set those boundaries and think about time with the people that matter to you? So, yeah,

I'm very happy and proud to say that as of May of this year, my company became an S-Corp. And what that means is now I'm an employee of my business. So that also means that I get a regular paycheck. What were you before it was an S-Corp? LLC. So it's always an LLC, but I was taxed as a pass-through sole. Right. Okay. Pass-through kind of piece. So now...

With me being NesCorp and me being able to take a regular paycheck means that the business in some capacity is sustainable, right? Right. So, but I had to get there. So I can tell you prior to that, boundaries, I didn't even know what that meant. I didn't know what boundaries meant. Like I knew what it meant, but I knew I couldn't even afford it. Right, right. Because I had to show up in so many different areas so that I can have this structure. And so-

Before, it was very much sleepless nights. I was also balancing another consultant gig. I was writing a I was an editor for a math textbook that's coming out next year. And so that was my first time doing that. So that provided me with additional income that I needed to support myself because I wasn't ready to take classes.

money from the business, from my business yet. We weren't there yet. So I was literally working nine to five, five to nine and whatever time during the weekends, wasn't seeing my family as often, wasn't available as often, returning phone calls two, three days later, just not taking care of myself

making sure that my hair is done every, you know, periodically, like all those things I wasn't able to do because I was sucked into building this business.

But I knew that that wasn't where I wanted to be. And so I decided that in January of this year, I implemented something called Clarity Breaks. So I listened to podcasts and, you know, things like how do you like I always try to do professional development because, you know, I never took a business class. Right. It was always education.

So I instituted clarity breaks every quarter and my clarity break is next week. So one week, every quarter, I take a clarity break for a week. Notifications off. My team knows this is not even a vacation. This is a clarity break where Jalila is taking time to herself.

to be able to think bigger ideas for the business or to be able to think bigger ideas for herself personally. And they know not to bother me for anything. And that's very helpful. It's something I look forward to. Didn't realize I would look forward to it, but I'm just counting down these next two days and

So there's that. And then finally, now I'm able to spend more time with my my nephews and my mom and so forth before it was nonexistent. But now on my calendar tomorrow, it's ladies night with my mom and my sister. And we're excited because for two years, that wasn't the case. Right. It wasn't the case.

Yeah. Your clarity breaks. When did you start instituting those? And you view those, that's not vacation, obviously. Do you do it in the same place or do you go somewhere else? I go somewhere else. So it depends. So like, and I'm still figuring it out because this is the first year. So March, the end of March is my first clarity break. And it was,

Not as successful as I thought it was going to be because although I set boundaries, I still had to figure some things out with the business because there were things that still required my attention. So I almost made it through the end of it. And then I get a phone call from a team member.

And I'm like, dang. So I had to handle that. Right. But you keep working at it. Right. You figure out, OK, what do you do next time to make sure that this doesn't happen? Because it's still the same way. And yeah. So then my next clarity break was in June and it went really, really well. OK. And I went to New Orleans with my boyfriend.

And we just enjoyed like all the festivities and ate and so forth. But there was one piece that didn't happen. So I kind of had to reset it. So August,

was a, is a redo for the clarity. And my project manager told me, she said, I really want you to have a really, you know, successful clarity break. So we're going to make sure that you do. And I appreciated that. So we're on board and they know next week is over. That's great. That's great. Okay. Let me ask you this now. You've had kind of the opportunity of time. You've been working on this for a few years. The first couple of years were, were,

The summer things and then you kind of went all in. If you're looking back at it now, is there something that you would do differently knowing what you know now? Yeah. Because I majored in math, I thought I was able to command my finances easily.

And while I could understand it easily, there was just so many other things that I didn't realize impacted my bottom line. And so I didn't pay attention to it as often as I could. And it all came to a head, I want to say last year, because in my business, because we work with school districts,

government contracts, our pay cycle or how we get paid is sometimes net 30, a lot of times net 60. So we would have rendered services and we don't get that check until cash flow became an issue. It still is an issue.

for my business access to cash. Now, we get the contracts, but we also have to make sure that we pay our staff on a timely basis so that they stay with us. So there's always this gap in time.

And so it all came to a head last year where we had tons of contracts out and it's the summertime. School boards don't meet in the summer. Right. So I was strapped for cash. I didn't know what to do to get this cash to make payroll at least. And I...

I had to like tap into my personal cash fund so many times, but this one was large as well as reach out to my family. And at that time, my friend, she was she worked in the business. She even loaned me money for the business. And she said, hey, don't worry about paying me this payroll. Just put it in the next payroll.

That was such a humbling experience, right? I'm in this business. We have all these contracts. We're doing all these things. And I don't have the money to pay my staff. But it was at that moment where if I could be transparent with this in this moment, that means I could be transparent with anything because everything is temporary. Right.

And literally when that happened, I was depressed. So that happened. The next pay cycle, I was able to pay everyone back. And then I've never been short a payroll since then. So we have to change a lot of things. So I would say finances, I would be very much more...

forward thinking about things and structuring how people get paid. We even changed how we pay our consultants. Now, we used to pay them immediately. Now we pay them net 30 because we

we don't have the cash until, you know, we get it. So, yeah. It's interesting. I often have the phrase and I tell founders, there's two types of founders, the ones that I've never had to worry about, the ones that have had to worry about payroll and the ones that have not yet had to worry about payroll. Right. I think it comes for everybody at some point. And I think when you cross over that, that,

and have had to deal with those issues that you understand so much more about yourself, about your business, and about other founders that are going through struggles. So I'm so glad that you were able to make it through that challenge. Okay, you've been through the whole cycle. You've done the side hustle thing. You've turned it into a full-time business. Whoa.

What would you tell somebody else that was thinking about taking the leap and starting a side hustle or taking their side hustle and making it a full-time business? If you're taking the leap and making a side hustle, be very clear that you want to do it. And you have to start, like, just follow the breadcrumbs, okay? One, make a decision that you want to do it. And once you do it, follow the breadcrumbs. What do I mean by that? You won't know your capacity until you start something.

And the minute you start something, you're going to see so many different breadcrumbs just laying in front of you like, oh, OK, I can do it like this. Oh, they're helping me with this. Oh, this is where I get this resource. Oh, this is how I turn this person into a possible staff member or someone that can be aligned with my vision. I say you have to start and follow the breadcrumbs. Do not be afraid to ask for help.

Do not go in there with an ego because the experiences that you have, you know, you don't want to turn people off because you cannot build a business on your own. You cannot. You cannot. Now, if you're already in the side hustle and you are trying to make this your main thing,

career, your main hustle, then you need to level up and grow your thinking, your mindset. How do you create systems so that you can be on the beach somewhere while your business is still running so that you can ensure that payroll still happens on a timely basis? Like, what are you doing in that? Who are who is your employment lawyer?

Okay. To help you with that. Who's writing all of your contracts? How do you ensure, you know, an illegal piece like that you are protected? Do you have business insurance?

Are you paying your taxes quarterly or are you paying them yearly for the business? Are you setting aside money for your quarterly taxes? Are you offering a 401k plan to your employees, some type of benefit so that you're able to attract top candidates? Like you have to think

way far in advance if you want this to become one of those sustainable companies. So, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's great advice. Jalila, this has been fantastic conversation. Where can our listeners find and connect with you online? So you can find me on Instagram at F underscore M underscore solutions.

On LinkedIn, Frazier's Mathematic Solutions. Same name on Facebook, Frazier's Mathematic Solutions. You can go to our website, www.fmssolutions.site. And yeah, those are the places that you can find us. Awesome. Thanks for coming on today. Thank you so much for having me.

Thanks for listening to this week's episode of the Side Hustle to Small Business podcast powered by Hiscox. To learn more about how Hiscox can help protect your small business through intelligent insurance solutions, visit Hiscox.com. That's H-I-S-C-O-X.com. And if you have a story you want to hear on this podcast, please visit Hiscox.com slash share your story.

I'm your host, Sanjay Parikh. You can find out more about me at my website, sanjayparikh.com.