Episode 395: Dr. Abe Malkin on Next-Gen Health: NAD Drip Therapy, Ketamine and Environmental Testing
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Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits & Hustle. Crush it!

You guys, this is a real treat because if you've been listening to Habits & Hustle from the beginning, then you may know who my guest is today. It is my dearest of dearest friends, Dr. Abe, otherwise known as Dr. Abe Malkin. Him and I actually started the podcast together five years ago. I think we had like three or four episodes, maybe more, but you never heard him talk because I talked the whole time. And he kind of was, you know, we

What would you say, Abe? What happened to you? Where can people find those in the archives? Those archives? I think they would be very entertaining. Oh, it's hilarious. So Abe and I, just full disclosure, used to be like super, super tight. We still are. He's like my little brother. I love him. But Abe went on to be bigger and better and just so crazy successful. I'm very proud of him. He has like five different big...

health and wellness companies. He covers everything. So he is like the guy in longevity. Like if I have a question, I always call Abe and then he's too big for me. So he passes me on to an underling, but that's okay. So Abe, anyway, thank you for being here. Pleasure. See, this is what happened. You put me on the podcast. I learned all your trade secrets and I just went out and started my own business. Yeah, I know. See, that's

Exactly. And now I'm back. Right, right. Now you're back after five years and crushing the world. By the way, for you guys who are watching this and not listening, Abe and I are actually doing an IV. It's called a niagen IV. And it is supposed to be the next level game changing for your mitochondrial health,

your cellular health. Abe, actually, you're the doctor. Can you talk about what we're doing? Yeah, what's interesting is this is a new product, the Niagen IV, that is basically a precursor to NAD. If we were getting an NAD IV right now, we would both be so uncomfortable. Totally.

Totally. We wouldn't be able to do the podcast. I think we actually tried to do it at one point, and we just couldn't do it. Oh, it was horrible. But by the way, we actually did the NAD. We did a couple of those NAD IVs with Dennis Rodman. That's right. Do you remember? Yes. And you need to be like a professional athlete to get through it quickly. And the Niagen IV is much different. It gives you even more benefit than the NAD IV, but you can race through it in 75% faster than you can an NAD IV. So-

We're going to get the IV done in 30 or so minutes.

really helps with energy, with mood, with sleep, with brain health. So a lot of benefits of the IV in a very short amount of time. Okay, so let's talk about this. So for those of you who don't know, because we're talking as if everyone should know what an NAD IV is, right? So people do know what NAD is, I think. A lot of people who are, you know, know about NAD, but people take it in pill form. Can we just give a brief overview of what NAD is just overall, what the benefits are,

and of different forms so people have an idea. So just some back story. - Sure. Those in the biohacking community have known about NAD for a long time, but it's great that now it's becoming more mainstream. Makes my job a lot easier that I don't have to explain it to as many people because people are starting to hear about it now from their friends, their doctors, and so forth. But essentially, NAD is an enzyme, a coenzyme, that helps your body generate chemical reactions. So everything you do in the world

requires your body to be generating chemical reactions. And you burn through your NAD levels, and as you age, you produce less and less NAD, which is one of the reasons that contributes to aging. So from an anti-aging perspective, NAD is really helpful for helping reverse the clock. So as you're performing these chemical reactions, your body is using up the NAD almost like a blank check. So whether you need more energy or better sleep, you have addiction problems or whatnot, NAD is really giving your body what it needs through that chemical reaction process. It's

powering your energy production in your mitochondria. So at a very basic level, as you age and your body requires more and more NAD, repleting it with IVs or orally can really help you give yourself the stuff it needs to help repair itself. Okay. So NR, right? Is NR the same as NAD? Great question. So NAD is made up of two things, made up of

NR and NMN. And so a lot of people are out there selling NR supplements, selling NMN supplements. NAD is the combination of two. But the reason you hear about NAD specifically with IVs is that it's not bioavailable. So if you take it orally, you can't absorb it into the cells, which is why you have NR and NMN supplements.

So with this IV in particular that we're getting right now, because it's NR, it can pass through directly into our cells without having to get broken down first, which is why when you get an NAD IV, it takes three hours because you have to infuse it. It gets broken down. It's uncomfortable. And then it's

absorbed up into the cells, whereas the niagen IV with NR is absorbed directly into the cells as you infuse it. Okay, so there's always these a million, I get a ton of questions just on the difference between NR and NMN. Can you talk about why is there such controversy between the two? And is there a big difference? So there's been studies on both sides, NR and NMN, about the bioavailability and effectiveness. I think there's studies on both sides, but it's clearly evident that

NR is absorbed into the cell directly, whereas NAD has to be broken down into the two components. And that's why you see supplements selling oral NR or NMN. You won't see supplements selling oral NAD. But, okay, so, but, right. So, like, if you're taking an oral, let's just say with the oral, NR versus the oral NMN, which one is more effective?

I would say that the literature at this point is pointing to NR being more effective and more absorbed, better absorbed into the cell and leading to higher levels of NAD. And really ultimately that's what you're trying to get. You're trying to get higher levels of NAD. So it's really important is to actually track your increase in NAD levels to get an objective measurement. And that's, what's exciting right now. A lot of people have been talking about the subjective benefits of NAD for years.

better energy, better sleep, better mood. But now there are tests coming out which can objectively measure your NAD levels after taking supplementation, either orally or via IV.

So if you're taking in an IV form versus orally, it kind of goes right into your bloodstream. So is that why, A, does it work better? What is the difference? Or you can also take those, people I know are taking NAD shots. I would say the hierarchy in terms of effectiveness and absorption is the best way you can take

any supplement for that matter is really IV because that gets completely absorbed into the cell, then intramuscular or subcutaneous, and then oral. And so the amount of NAD gain you can generate from a treatment via IV is far greater than what you can gain via oral. If you had to take oral pills to equal the amount of NAD that you're getting from an IV infusion, you'd have to take many, many pills and that wouldn't feel good in your stomach.

So for most people, the amount of NAD delivered via IV is far greater than an oral pill, which is why you generally see better absorption rates via IV. Can you OD?

No, it's a great question. You asked me the other day, you said, hey, I just got an iGen IV the other day. Can I have another one today? It's like putting gasoline in your car or getting an oil change. Your car will run more efficiently if you get an oil change every day, but you can't have too many oil changes. And so I say to people, your body will use up whatever you give it. You're constantly performing chemical reactions and using up NAD. So the more you give yourself, the better it will run. But does it store or do you just pee it out?

It's a molecule that your body is constantly using it. So you will use NAD on a several day lag time. So if you get an IV today, you'll use it up over the next two or three days. You're not going to use it up all right away, but your body will use more of it the more you give it. And so it is soluble. So if you do, you could essentially urinate it out. It's not going to over build in your body, but you really can't take too much of it.

That's good to know. Because also, because like I'm always concerned with supplements in general, that your body will acclimate or you're giving it what it's not deficient in. So therefore, it's actually can be harmful. That was always my concern. It's a great question. So I like to think of supplements or any treatment for that matter in terms of precursors versus end products.

So if you give your body an end product, like if you give your body testosterone, or if you give your body growth hormone, it triggers your body's natural reaction to stop production because you're getting it exogenously. But NED, because it's an enzyme, it's a precursor, it's fueling your body's production even more. So your body knows what to do with it and to generate more of it. So if you give your body an end product versus a precursor, your body would shut down its

production. But if you give your body a precursor, it's actually stimulating it to produce more. So then, okay, why is there so much talk though about NAD and anti-aging? So if it's about your cellular health or mitochondrial health, brain fog, how does that, maybe this sounds stupid, but how does it make you look younger? So think about your body is always trying to self-correct. And as you age, part of what causes aging is your body's inability to self-correct. And

Studies have shown that NAD levels naturally over time decrease. So at the age of 30 or 35, your body starts slowing down its production of NAD. Therefore, it can't self-correct as well. Additionally, toxins, stress, alcohol, other things that we encounter on a day-to-day basis reduce our levels. So in a perfect world, if we never reduced our production of NAD or plenty of other things that cause aging, we wouldn't age.

But the idea is to find out what is causing the harmful effects of aging and replace that in a safe way to slow the effects of aging. I'm just fascinated by all this because like, how does anyone know it really works, right? Because we're living in a time when like everyone's doing all these things, right? The cold plunging, the saunas, the IVs, you name it, right? Like red light, all the things.

And like a lot of times people are like, well, does it work? And you're like, I don't know. Like, how do you know? Like what are like, unless it's like, is it a placebo effect? Like if you think it works, it works. Like, is there a measurable test that people can take to see what's working, what's not working? It's a great question. There's a couple of things you can do. So first of all, subjective benefit is,

is benefit. Whether or not you can measure it, there are still plenty of subjective benefits of treatments like this as there are with cold plunge and with infrared sauna and other things you can do. And it's not that there's one silver bullet that accomplishes everything. I think they each incrementally help. That being said,

you obviously want to have objective benefits as well. So you can check NAD levels. You can check your biological age. That's a very popular test now that there's a couple of different companies that sell. That tests things like methylation on your DNA strands and essentially measures how close to being pure your DNA strands are from how they were when they were originally created. And that's why you can check your biological age versus your chronological age and see what the difference is. So there are definitely objective measures of aging that people can check.

And, you know, guys like Brian Johnson have a large discrepancy between their biological age and their chronological age through all the things that they're doing. Well, it's so funny you brought up Brian Johnson. His name has come up now like four times to me.

in the last like few days. Cause funnily enough, me and Ben Greenfield did one of these nitrogen IVs on Friday. That's why I was like, well, is it okay if I do one again? And he, we talked about him because the guy's doing like, he makes Ben Greenfield look like a wallflower compared to it. Like I said to him, like, what has he done that you haven't done at this point? Cause the guy's like all in. Is that, and I hate to be, and I'm not trying to say sound misogynistic,

mean or anything like that. But like, when I look at Brian, he doesn't look that much younger and he's done so many things. So like, is, is there a point, a point like you pass of no return? Like the truth is like, I know a lot of people who don't do shit. Like they just like that they do whatever. And they look a million times better than all these people are doing all of these crazy, like, you know, modalities and routines. And like, is it what,

part of it is just genetics. Like you can't, can you fight, how much can you fight genetics and how much of it is actually genetics? So I think in addition to all the things we're talking about, NAD, niagen IVs, infrared sauna, cold punch, there's a lot of other factors that you can control internally, which make a big difference, like sleep.

like lack of stress, like exercise. I know Peter Attia likes to talk about the things that are like non-negotiable and then things you can do that are to supplement your everyday routines. The non-negotiable stuff, you have to sleep, you have to eat, you have to have a live a life where stress-free, that stuff is extremely impactful. So even people that aren't necessarily doing the infrared sauna and the cold plunge, if they have other good habits, they can look great. So I take that with a grain of salt. I think if you had poor

habits, and then you did NAD and cold plunge and infrasana, perhaps you could balance the two out. But having those core habits at the beginning is really fundamental to having a healthy lifestyle.

Right. I agree. So give me an example. Like, what do you do? What's your daily habits? You're you do this all day long. I remember you used to start your podcast with this. I know I still, I still, I do incorporate the habits and the routines. I just mix and mix where I put it in the podcast. Yeah. But here you are, you do this all day and you know, I know your client list and like, like the people that see you are like insane. Like it's like all the biggest names in the world, literally in everything, business and in Hollywood and,

Now you tell me what you do daily. Like I know you're very healthy. I see, I know your life, but like, tell me where you're a non-negotiable. What are your absolute non-negotiables? And everyone's is different. My non-negotiable is exercise. Like I exercise every single day. If I go a day without exercising, I don't feel well. I know for other people, their non-negotiables is their morning routine or certain or fasting or other types of habits they have. For me,

I take a lot of pleasure from work. So work is something that I definitely plan my day around, but where it comes to staying healthy and staying productive, it's the daily exercise. So whether it's weightlifting or playing basketball or tennis or cardio, that's a non-negotiable for me and something that I know that will enable me to operate at a high level. And I think to your question earlier about how come some people can look good without doing all the

the anti-aging treatments that other people do, it goes back to their ability to know themselves and to not miss things that they know will maintain their health. So for me, that's exercise. For other people, that might be a certain diet. For other people, it's getting seven or eight hours of sleep. I think everyone has to find what makes them unique, what uniquely helps them

stay healthy and feel good. So exercise for me also is my absolute non-negotiable. Everything else can take a backseat to me because that's great for my mental health. Like the brain, but talk about brain fog. The best way to counteract brain fog, in my opinion, is exercise. It makes you way more productive. It makes my brain work a thousand times faster. And I have

energy like energy begets energy to me it's like I don't know how like my I'm unable to like function properly and well without it but you your schedule like are you still like you travel like you're like a jet setter you're never even in one place longer than four days like seriously like how often are you on a plane now like every two days I tried I had a period where I was traveling every other weekend although now to be honest I

I'm traveling a little bit less and I'm focusing a little bit more on a better routine here in LA. But again, you can live that kind of lifestyle. You can travel as long as you, while you're away, go to the gym, go for a run. I know you don't seem like someone who meditates. I'm not someone who meditates. But for me, when I go for a run, I get that meditative experience. Me too.

To me, what I think about, I love running too, I feel like it's controlled meditation. Like it's forcing me to go into a state of flow that I would otherwise never do. And I always say to people, like meditation doesn't have to just be you sitting in an om position, like on a cushion.

You know, like everyone's different. For me, my meditation practice is running. I get my best ideas also from running. But I was going to say, though, I find when I travel, it's very hard for me to stay on routine. It's very hard for me to keep my habits, even if they are non-negotiables, even if...

you know, I know the importance of it because like, you know, you get fatigued differently. Like your circadian rhythm is off. How are you able to exercise daily? Like you do while you're like, and you're not going to like, you know, you're not going an hour away. You're going all around the world.

How are you doing that? Well, that's why I don't use an aura ring. I used to use an aura ring because some days it tells you not to work out. And I realized for me, that doesn't exist. Yeah. Like I don't, if I didn't get a good night's sleep the night before, I'll still feel better if I go to the gym. Me too. And luckily, you know, aerobics working out, I think used to be more of a US centric thing where in the US we were very big on it, but in Europe and other places they weren't. But now no matter where you go, hotels have gyms, there's places you can go running.

to be honest, is like just walking too. Like everyone says the same thing. They go to Europe, they eat pasta, they have wine and no one ever gains a pound because they're walking every day. They're eating foods that aren't processed. So I think in whatever extent you can, just

Being active, moving every day is something anyone can do. Does it make a difference what time you're working out though? Like morning versus night? I'm jealous of people that are morning workout people. I'm not. To me, I have to get through my day of like business work and then I go to the gym. It's also like a good departure for me for the day. Aren't you tired?

by the end of the day? No, I get so much energy when I go after work. If I go in the morning, I'm like thinking about other things. I'm worrying about my meetings. I'm on my phone while I'm at the gym. If I go after work, I can just block out two hours of time and not think about anything else. You know why that is? I don't have kids.

Exactly. You have no kids and no responsibilities. And that is why it is impossible because, you know, a certain time of day happens and like, you're just, I feel the, I'm the opposite where I feel like if you don't knock it out first thing in the morning, it will never happen. I will be like, I'll think of every other, not because even I want to, but something will come up inevitably that I would have to take care of or my kid or this or that. So, and then it's always in your head.

Like, oh, I have to work out. I got to work out. I got to do it. But if you just get it done, then you have the energy that you need for the day to work well. Like to me, if I'm doing it also at the end of the day, I'm like, doesn't that defeat the purpose of having the wherewithal and the brain focus and the alert, like the alertness? See, I find that.

If I know at the end of the day, I have a time set aside to go to the gym or to work out, I can focus on what I need to do knowing I have that bonus at the end of the day.

And I also do feel great when I work out in the morning, but most of the time I just don't have the time to do it. But I think everyone knows what makes them tick and knows what works best for them. It's just a matter of like holding yourself accountable and doing it. So whether you're a morning person or an afternoon person, if you say you're going to do it, you got to do it. Right. Okay. So what are your habits though, besides exercise every day? That's a big one. I also like eat pretty healthy. I eat a lot, but I eat pretty healthy. I don't, I've really recently cut out a lot of gluten from my diet and that's made a big difference.

I don't eat a lot of snacks or refined sugars. I'll eat plenty of meals with high protein and other things like that, but I try to cut out snacking between meals. That's made a big difference for me. Sleep is also something that I've really tried to focus on recently.

I don't understand people that can sleep four or five hours a night and function. I need seven or eight hours of sleep. And so I've started taking some sleep supplements before I go to bed. I started taking some cortisol blockers that help me not wake up during the middle of the night. Really? And that's helped me quite a bit, yeah. I've never heard of that. What's a cortisol blocker? So the reason people often wake up at,

you know, two, three, four in the morning is because their cortisol levels naturally spike in the middle of the night. And so you wake up, you go to the bathroom or not, and then you sometimes go back to sleep, sometimes you don't. That was always my problem. I didn't have problems falling asleep really. It was waking up in the middle of the night and then not going back to sleep. So you can buy supplements online. You know, they have a combination of things like ashwagandha and L-theanine that...

you can take to help blunt that cortisol spike. And it helps you actually stay asleep in the middle of the night. And even if you do wake up, you'll go back to sleep more quickly. So it's the stuff before bed, like magnesium and acetal and glycine, and then a cortisol blocker, which helps prevent the spike in the middle of the night. I've never heard of that before. These are great. These are like life-changing.

That's something I've never heard. If you walk away from this podcast with two things, nitrogen IVs and those sleep supplements that I talked about. That's amazing. The magnesium, I've heard a million times. Never heard about the cortisone blocker ever. Is there danger towards that or like? No, they're all natural supplements. And so you can take them individually. Like you can take ashwagandha and altheanine, but I like, there's a product called cortisol manager, which helps block cortisol spikes. We should probably stop our IVs by the way. Yeah.

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I find that the guys who are doing all this biohacking, either they look really old and they look like double their age or they look exceptionally good.

But with women, I just find they sleep their age. I don't find that in terms of the aesthetic piece. Yeah. I find it makes a big difference sometimes with the men, but not with the women. I don't know. I think for me, at least, if I get a good night's sleep the night before, that's everything. I didn't sleep much Saturday night. Last night, I slept nine hours. Nine hours? I went to sleep at, got in bed at 8.30 p.m.

That never happens. Never happens. Jeez. That's, I mean, when you have children, you'll never ever see that the light of day again in terms of sleep like that. It's a whole different life when you have people who have kids versus who don't. And people who have kids, they age 20 years. So like if you see someone who's like 40 with kids versus someone who's 40 without kids, I promise you the person that's 40 with kids will look 10 years older. Do you think that's because of sleep?

I think it's sleep deprivation. I think it's overall just stress. I think when you have more just overall responsibility, I think over time it does take a toll. Look at Obama. Every president, by the way, who goes into the office, right? Just the overall stress and toll of what that job is. They come out, they go in looking like JFK Jr. And they come out looking like, you know, Ed Grimley, like every single time. But it's worth it.

It's worth it. I mean, what, the kids or the presidency? I guess so. Yes, it is worth it. They say it is, you know, but no, I mean, listen, yes. Like everything in life, there's good things and bad things with it. So let's talk more about the longevity stuff. So

Don't have kids. Yeah, exactly. Don't have kids. You want to live forever? Don't have kids. Actually, that's not true. In fact, all the research has proven and show that what makes people the healthiest and live the longest is actually socialization and community and family, right? Or community. And when you have people that you love and love you, there's no better supplement on the planet to be happy over time,

live longer, all those things than that. Like you can do all the supplements you want and all the saunas that you want, but if you don't have a sense of community or have people to share it with, you might as well have nothing. I think that's what's interesting now. There's all these like biohacking longevity communities. Yeah. Like I moved to the West side now and I'm everywhere in Venice and Santa Monica, run clubs,

Infrared sauna clubs, cold plunge groups, like all over the place. This didn't exist like five or 10 years ago. Hold on a second. What do you mean? There's an infrared, there's actually sauna clubs? Yeah. So like, you know, Paws has a 20 person sauna in one of their locations where they have sauna days where you can go through. And there are these cold plunge parties where people come and drink coffee and go in cold plunges. There's a place in Venice that just opened up that that's putting a 10 person cold plunge on their roof. So you can look at the ocean while you're in the cold plunge.

Like blending. And I think that's what's cool about these social wellness medical facilities now is they're starting to make wellness part of your lifestyle and a way to interact socially. So it's not just you by yourself suffering in a cold punch. You can also like get a date out of it too. That's amazing. That's actually really interesting.

Because I figured that like people, like minds find each other, right? Like if you're someone who's into running, you'll find someone who runs at a running club. And I know that if you're into saunas and cold plunges, you'll find people who are interested. But that idea, I never heard that they actually, that they exist already where you're merging the socialization with the actual modality. That is so smart. You know, Venice Run Club, I did it once and they make you, before you run,

identify if you're single or not. So it becomes like a dating plus activity. And it becomes like a huge hit. Everyone wants to do it. It's so much better than going to the bar and getting a drink. So much better. Tired of drinking. Drinking is over. Like, it's just not fun anymore. I feel like drinking has become passe. Like the new, you know, drinking is cold plunging or infrared, red light and cold plunging or the hybrid, the hot, cold,

I mean, we live in LA, so it's easy for us to say that. I'm sure in Nebraska and other places in the country, it's probably not the case, but hopefully eventually we'll extend. Like even for us, you know, I started my IV company, we were in LA and then we did New York and we did major cities. I never in a million years thought I would launch in

St. Louis, Missouri, or Louisville, Kentucky, but there's a demand for this stuff everywhere now. - Really? - Yeah, and even in Europe, there's places that you'd never think would want IV therapy, but it's starting to get more popular. So whatever we're doing, and I think a lot of it is podcasts like yours and other big podcasts that are espousing this stuff, it's getting the word out there. It's in the zeitgeist. People are getting excited about it. They're talking about it with their friends. And there's this social pressure, in a sense, in a good way, to what are you doing for your wellness? What are you doing for your health?

outside of just working and going out, there's like a whole undercurrent now, which is pushing this stuff to the forefront. Yeah. No, it's so great. So is there actually a place that you said already that you can cold plunge, you said, and have friends in there? And besides, you said the sauna one, is the one that you said- Not to keep plugging places, but Hume is a place in Venice, which has a rooftop and they're building a 20% cold plunge up.

there. So you can work out and go up to the rooftop in the sun and be in a cold plunge with other people. There's a get-together every two or three weeks called Coffee and Chill, where you go and have a coffee and literally chill about 37 degrees. So if you're only in the cold plunge for three minutes, right? So that's not very... It's like speed dating. Yeah, I was going to say, is it like speed dating? Yeah.

Oh my God. I love that so much. Okay. Tell me other things like that. I'm so glad that you came on here. Tell me other things like that, that we haven't, like people don't know about. I mean, I, I'm in LA. So a lot of the stuff that I do is here. So, you know, maybe for those that aren't in LA, you'll have to come visit, but like

Motion LA is another good one. Again, they have workout. They do these big groups where you work out, you do a cold plunge. They have a bunch of sponsors like Magic Mind and other type of wellness-oriented products and services. And you're meeting people in an environment which isn't revolving around drinking. And it's wonderful. And you're meeting people that you have similar interests to. Because when you go to a bar, who knows who's there? But if you go to a place that's

oriented toward wellness, you're going to meet people with wellness focus. I know, you know, someone was on the podcast recently. I don't even think it's out yet, or maybe by the time this is, it might be, but she was saying like, and then I looked into it and it was like the most popular thing is birdwatching.

They have clubs now for birdwatching. Is that good for longevity? No, it's not good. Well, maybe it is. It's nature. You're out in nature, out in the fresh air and you are meeting people. There's like a birdwatching clubs and I'm not talking for people who are like 110 years old. I'm talking people who are in their thirties, twenties, forties, whatever, who are going into these birdwatching groups and it's

The hottest thing in the world. This is good because now that we're all going to live to 180 years old, we're going to need to find activities that aren't bad on our joints. Exactly. So birdwatching would be perfect for that. Birdwatching is perfect. Well then tell me what you think about cryotherapy. How is that different than cold plunging? It's just the amount of penetration into your body. So cryotherapy generally cools down the outer surface of your skin. And so isn't getting that deeper level of cooling that you get from a cold plunge.

I personally have a really hard time with cold punch. And that's probably because I don't meditate and I get in there and immediately the second I get in there, I say, I got to get out of here. This is insane. With breath work and coaching, I can stand a minute or two. I don't do the six to 10 minutes like some people do, but that really does help reduce stress, reduce your inflammation. Because at the end of the day, like that's the key is reducing inflammation. All this stuff we're talking about is reducing cortisol levels, reducing inflammation, because

because that is what erodes your body's function over time. That's interesting because the cold plunge to me just, I feel, would increase my cortisol because I'm so nervous and so like, it's like the flight or fight thing. Like, I don't want to be in there. How, like, unless your brain is in the right place, isn't it kind of cortisol producing? So, I think,

I think there's a physiological benefit of it and then also a psychological benefit. Learning how to manage your emotion around, I need to get out of this stressful situation right away rather than dealing with it, I think is an entirely different benefit other than the physiological benefit. I'm certainly someone who feels that way initially with tough situations, but learning how to manage that psychological pressure and overcome it and get through it is something that even if you have that initial cortisol spike,

Learning how to get through that and control your breathing and get through the experience. Anyone can do it. It's just a matter of managing your emotions around it.

That's a good, I think that's true. I really, I agree with you. What is the newest, latest and greatest that maybe people haven't heard 700 times? I know everyone talks about peptides and everyone talks about the sauna and the cold planners like we just did at Nauseam. Is there anything on the cutting edge or on the forefront that we can be, that you've seen has shown good results that maybe not everybody has talked about?

Yeah, well, I think just to catch people up, you mentioned peptides. Peptides are great. There's hundreds of different peptides for different functions. They're very targeted. There are peptides that can increase growth hormone. There are peptides that can reduce inflammation. There's peptides for sleep, for weight loss, for libido. So for those who don't know a lot about peptides, talk to your doctor and learn about the various different types of peptides that can be beneficial. We talked a lot about NAD and niagen earlier on. That is something that is kind of a core component

component of a good longevity strategy to replace that. If you want to go a little bit deeper down the rabbit hole, there's things like exosomes and stem cells, which I'm sure people have heard about if they're interested in biohacking, but the way in which they're being used now are really amazing. So for years, people were doing intra-articular injections of stem cells and exosomes into the joints.

So you hurt your knee, you hurt your ankle, you hurt your elbow, you get an injection into the joint from your orthopedic surgeon. And that's great for tissue repair in a very local area. But for anti-aging purposes, you can get an IV of exosomes or stem cells, and the cells themselves won't just treat a particular joint, but they'll actually travel throughout your body and regenerate different areas of your body that need regeneration. For those who don't know the difference,

Stem cells are actual immature cells that are harvested from birth products at the time of birth and haven't differentiated into muscle cells, liver cells, brain cells. So you're giving your body a blank check to then produce whatever cells it needs. So interestingly enough, you might find someone who has back pain and they get a stem cell infusion for their back pain, but those cells will actually travel also to their pancreas and potentially can help reverse some aspects of diabetes.

So stem cells as a general category are really emerging as an incredible tool. Exosomes are the byproduct of stem cells. So they're the milieu that a stem cell exists in. It's the growth factors, the RNA, the DNA that produce a very potent anti-inflammatory effect in the short term. So they don't grow tissue the way that stem cells do, but you use it very focally to help treat inflammation in the short term.

So I would say both of those, in addition to the NAD, the niagen, the peptides, are some really helpful anti-aging treatments you can look into. Well, I've been talking more about stem cells recently. I had Dr. Adil Khan on the podcast. I don't know if you know who he is. You do? He does them out of Cabo, Mexico, and Dubai, outside the U.S., because from what I was...

I was under the impression of what I was told and what I've read and researched is that, you know, the stem cells that are available in the U.S. are not as, I guess,

strong maybe or as potent as the ones that you can get out of the U.S. Is that true? The difference is here in the U.S. you're not able to expand stem cells. So what you harvest at the time of birth, that's what you can infuse into someone. Outside of the U.S. there aren't restrictions against expansion. So they can take a group of stem cells, put it in a petri dish, grow it by a thousand times or ten thousand times and then use those to so you might find an infusion outside the U.S. with a

a factor of 10 times as many cells as you will get here. And so in that sense, it could be more effective, but the actual cells themselves are the same cells. Oh, I understand. So that's why it's more potent. Right. Yeah. Okay. But there's also an argument to be made that expanding the cells, each time you expand, do you lose a little efficacy of that additional cell? So I haven't looked at the studies directly, but that's essentially the way to think about it.

So I went, he did like the stem cell facial on me. And when I say the word facial, I use that word very lightly. It was no facial. It was no spa facial. I'll tell you, like, I thought I was going to be going and he's going to do this like lovely, like, you know, treatment and put some stem cells. No.

He takes needles and injects all these stem cells in my face. Have you heard of this before? Well, microneedling is very popular. Is that not what you had or is it actual like injections? No, no. He put injected stem cells in my face, like with a needle.

That's pretty invasive. I would say that you get a lot of benefit from microneedling with stem cells or exosomes. And that is micropunctures in the skin that if you put numbing cream on, you can barely feel the needle. And then 30 minutes later, you can get a microneedling treatment done. And it's extremely effective. You get a new glow on your skin. But you could do the stem cell. So then you're saying that you can just get microneedling?

And then you just wipe the stem cells on your face versus inject them. Yeah, you massage them into the pores that you create. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's not as potent as getting needle, needle, needle, needle. It's also not as painful. Yeah, it was really painful. But shout out to Dr. Adil Khan because his team was amazing. And he's doing some amazing things over there. But I find that that's become a big area that people are talking about. It's regenerative therapy.

I also think like mental health is super important to your longevity. And there's a lot of work being done now by using psychedelics in mental health, especially ketamine, which is now FDA approved for the treatment of depression and anxiety and other mental health disorders. Can you talk about that? Talk about that because I know that you work as an addiction detox person as well. Yeah. And so can we talk about that? And what like I thought ketamine was good for depression.

It is. So basically, just at a high level, the way that ketamine works is it's a dissociative. So when given either orally through a lozenge or IV or intramuscularly, it causes a sort of self-limited 40, 45 minute experience that you can have someone go through. And it really helps them

break negative thought patterns in their brain, and then rewire their neural pathways through neuroplasticity in a healthier way. So let's say, for example, you had someone who had PTSD and they've never thought about a certain experience they had, which obviously triggers them and causes them to have trauma. They can now access that thought in that controlled environment

space and rewire their thinking about it. So you can imagine it's like having years of therapy to process something in one setting. And so when done properly with professional guidance, it can be extremely impactful. Same thing with anxiety and depression. If you have these negative thought loops that you can't get out of, ketamine therapy can help break those thought loops and rewire your thinking in a more healthy way. Where do you get them? So there's different ways of taking ketamine. You can do lozenge therapy, which is like

self-administered and usually you do it at your home or another setting like that with or without therapeutic support. And then the more...

Potent way of doing it is via IV or intramuscular therapy. And that's when you have a provider there, a doctor, a nurse practitioner who's administering the treatment and kind of guiding you through it. How many sessions do you even need to be effective? It's cumulative. You can have benefit from just one session. But a lot of the studies have shown it's between four to eight sessions over a two month period that really gets the most benefit, especially when combined with elements like

that help you improve your mindfulness. So journaling, meditation, breath work to help you reframe your mindset in a more healthy way. Now that you've created that dissociative effect that allows you to recreate your neural pathways. Have you tried it before? I have and it's wonderful. Really? Which way have you done? I've done

several lozenge treatments and I've done one intramuscular treatment. Intramuscular treatment is a lot more potent. So it was really helpful for me to have a provider there with me to guide me through it. Aren't you a provider? Yeah, but I wasn't in the right state of mind to provide assistance to myself at the time. So when you say intramuscular, like you mean like a needle that go, like how does it work? Yeah, it's a gluteal injection in your buttock and it's the

It's essentially the same thing about a 40, 45 minute experience. And how long does it last though? Like in terms of the effects. So you'll feel fine, you know, an hour later, you know, you can go about your day, but the effect can be life-changing. You know, if you get process, if you reprocess thoughts, if you have more clarity on events in your life, if you can reframe your thinking about things, you can have long lasting effects in the same way that you could from therapy, which helps you reframe your thinking about things.

certain things. So again, all of this to say stress, anxiety, depression are one of the biggest contributing factors to aging and lack of longevity. So there are other ways to treat longevity other than the typical things that are out there that people are talking about.

Yeah, it makes sense to me. How about we were talking about addiction. I've heard and we talked like, does NAD really help addiction? So I think earlier in the podcast, we talked about some of the factors that cause reduced NAD levels, stress, anxiety, toxins. As you can imagine, people with addiction issues are encountering a higher level of toxins than the regular general public.

So giving them NAD injections, niagen infusions can really help them replete those neurotransmitters that are lost and then the NAD that's lost in a way which is probably more impactful for them than someone in the general public who isn't in

encountering that level of toxin. That's so interesting to me. What's the percentage of people it actually helps? So NAD can help anyone, and I think it would probably be more helpful for someone with addiction problems, just given their bodies, the harmful effects of toxins on the body. And so rather than just focusing on traditional pharmaceutical medications, which can be toxic in their own right, it

It's a nice adjunct treatment to pharmacological treatment for anxiety and for mental health issues. Okay, tell us about something. Okay, so now we got that. So ketamine, stem cells, NAD, NR, niagen. I love these social mingling with all these wellness modalities. Anything else that you can talk about that's maybe a little bit more unique that we haven't heard of? Well, I mean, I think...

Testing is a part of this too. We've talked a lot about treatment. So let's take a step back and think about making a customized treatment plan for yourself. So I'm a pretty healthy guy. I've been told for years I'm healthy. I actually just did an environmental toxin test and found out that I have mold toxicity, heavy metals, microplastics. And so my treatment plan, it's not a complex

complex treatment plan in the sense of like novel treatments, but it's treating the root cause of what's going on inside my body. So for me, I take a binder, which helps bind the plastics. And then I go into a sauna three times a week to help get rid of the plastics. That's amazing. So I think rather than only thinking about what's the latest and greatest treatment that's out there, think about what can I do to actually treat what's going on inside my body and testing is important. I like that.

So that environmental test that you take, who does it? There's a company out there which has a, it's called a total tox burden test. You don't do it?

We do it. And I meant the test itself is produced by them. And so we administer for patients at home. We get the results in a couple of weeks and then we put together a specific treatment plan to treat those specific elements. So for me, it was the binders that I mentioned plus sauna because of the mold toxicity. I actually ended up moving offices because we found mold in my old office. I moved houses actually, not because of that, but that helped with the mold. And.

really making sure to wash my fruits and vegetables carefully because a lot of times they have mold on them. There's a whole host of things you can do. Air purifiers at home in the office. Heavy metals is another thing that I found. So making sure that the fish that you're eating, things like that is organic, fresh, wild caught. So for me, that was my specific treatment plan. I'm sure for other people, they'll find things that they may not have noticed from their normal primary care doctor. I really want to take that test. Yeah.

That test is a game changer for sure. Because for so many of us, you go to get the same lab work done every year. The ranges are so large and they're like, oh, you're low normal or high normal, but it's all, it's not getting to the actual cause of what's causing that. And so for me, I had inflammation in my body and I'm super healthy. No one could explain it, but it was, I

it wasn't until I did this test that I actually figured out what was causing it. And that was leading to a whole host of other things. What was it leading to? Some reduced kidney function, some elevated liver enzymes, you know, these micro traumas that I was having to my body from all the toxins that I was encountering. Right. That's an amazing test. How much is it? It's a few hundred dollars. You know, it's very affordable for people that really are making health their priority and want to get to the root cause of their problems. I think...

Coming at your health from a naturopathic perspective can be very helpful rather than just thinking about Western medicine, which is focused on disease treatment, disease treatment. There's other ways of thinking about your health in terms of root cause problems, how to assess that. And then treatment is the last step. It's really identifying the root cause problem first before you even get to the treatment. I think that's such a great test. So it's called the environmental... The total tox burden test.

That's one of them. There's many other tests people have been talking about for years, but I think are important, like gut microbiome testing, food sensitivity testing. If you are lactose intolerant or lactose insensitive like I am,

Just having a little pizza or milk doesn't cause me to be violently sick, but it does cause micro-inflammation in my gut. And things like that are important for people to get. And most people don't get that from their regular doctor. That's a good tip, actually. Stool sense, stool, microbiome testing, food sensitivity, total tox burden. These are all the markers for inflammation that you will see far before you get to the actual disease process. Right.

Do you notice a difference between how you feel now after doing some solutions to what you found? A lot of this reduces inflammation. So you feel more energy. Do you feel? You feel more clear-headed. You feel your lab values will certainly improve because you're taking out that inflammation from your body. You'll feel subjective benefits first, and then over time, certainly objective benefits in your lab work. I want to get that test. That's a great test. I highly recommend it. I can't.

Why didn't you ever tell me about it? We haven't talked in four years. I know. Four years? Oh my God. Come on. Four years is not, that's not true, but it is pretty close. Okay. That's a really good, how about genetic testing? You know, there's a lot of talk about genetic testing. What do you think about that one? So genetic testing is on the cusp of really great things. At least at the,

in the outset now, it can be helpful for getting a phenotype for yourself so you understand how your body reacts to certain things. But eventually, treatments will be geared toward your specific genetic phenotype or genotype. And that's really when I think it's going to be super impactful. So for now, it's helpful just to understand where you are in the milieu of genetics and testing. But in the future, I think it's going to be targeted to therapies based on your specific

gene type. I like that. Is there any other tests that we like that are on that we should be doing the environmental test, the genetic test? Um, well, you're not so much on the genetic right now, but like, is there anything else? Well, there are genetic tests that can test you for cancer markers, like the gallery test, which is incredibly important for people to take. So as part of like a, I think a comprehensive health plan, you obviously need your just basic blocking and tackling your cardiovascular health, your lipid panel, your diet,

your blood sugars, your liver, kidney function, and all of those things. I think some of the specialty tests, like we talked about gut microbiome, food sensitivity, environmental toxin, but then you go into your genetic testing, like the gallery cancer test, epigenetic tests, the tests, your biological age and whatnot. And then for like prevention purposes, there's the clearly heart scan, which I think is really helpful for most people. And that's getting more popular. What's it called? The clearly heart scan. So it's a cardiovascular test that tests your risk of having a cardiac event.

And I think for a long time, people, Western medicine was reluctant to have people do expensive testing proactively. And we kind of waited till it was more of a disease stage before, before testing and treating. Now, I think there's a movement toward, especially as these companies do direct to consumer testing, like Clearly and Prenuvo is another MRI scan, full body MRI scan that can be helpful for prevention. People are seeking these tests earlier and earlier and earlier in their life, in their

and finding out things about their body earlier than they have before. Do you like the full body scan? I think it's incredible. I think people should get it as part of their, not annual physical, but at least every five years, starting at the age of 40 or so, just to give yourself a baseline to know what's going on in your body. It's a diagnostic test that can track changes over time. So even if you don't find something that is pinpoint disease, you'll find changes over time if you do it on a consistent basis. That's good information. I like that. Abe?

Thank you for being on the podcast. This is great. I'll see you, what, like 2028 or something like that? Yeah, that works out well. We'll do an every four-year check-in. Well, the good news, we're going to be aging backwards now, so we'll actually get younger the next time we do this podcast. Good. You won't recognize me. You'll probably think I'm Sydney. Perfect. Yeah, perfect. Where do people find more about you? You have like nine, seven, like...

So many companies. You have Concierge MD, Drip Hydration, Dr. Abe Malkin. What else do you have? I think that's fine. You said one more. Wellness something. Oh, Wellness MD. Yeah, that's an interesting company. I've learned a lot in growing the businesses that I run myself, and I've kind of used that to help other people launch their health businesses and scale them across the country. So-

That's another way people can find me through Wellness MD Group. Where can't we find you? Or, you know, if you follow you on Instagram, you look like you're like a travel influencer because I swear, you're like jumping off a cliff in Fiji and then you're like jumping out of a plane in I don't know where in like...

Where were you? Columbia. I don't know. You're always like somewhere. Don't you want your doctor to do that? Of course. Yes, I would. Yes. But then when I call him, he's unavailable. I'd be kind of, thank God you have a great team of people who work here. Like Neil. Yes. We should get Neil on the podcast. Neil's the one with the real brains here, right? You can ask him all your burning cosmetic questions. I could. So by the way, guys, Neil is Abe's partner. He's a dermatologist. He's very nice. He's very knowledgeable and I like him a lot.

Glad we got a plug-in. Neil, there you go. Okay. It's true. All right, Abe. Thank you. And don't be a stranger. I won't. Okay. Bye.