Episode 373: Blokes & Joi Wellness: Biomarker Testing, At-Home Hormone Optimization, and Proactive Health Management.
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Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits & Hustle. Crush it! So Josh and Katie, just like Madonna, are on the podcast today and they are the founders of Blokes & Joy.

Now, here we said before the podcast, is it called Blokes and Joy? Joy and Blokes? I know you guys are going to be merging companies. What do you call yourselves? We're two brands. Okay. And Blokes is obviously oriented towards men, and then Joy is oriented towards females. And we're going to have one URL, two social handles, just because we want to speak directly to the male and female consumer.

Perfect. Okay, that's a great way to kind of just make it very concise. So before we get into what you guys actually do, we're going to do a shot, a healthy shot. Like you said, it's like the Andy Cohen, but the healthy version. And these are called Magic Minds. And what this is great for is focus and productivity and just getting your mind focused.

focused and like turned on so we do a healthy shot here with everybody that we do live so we do like a little cheers yep cheers to you Josh and to you and to you and just down the hatchet

I've had so many of these today. It's good. It's good, right? Yeah, it's really good. And I sound like a broken record, but I love the ingredients. And it really does just kind of like focus my attention. And I love the ingredients, like I said. So that's what we do here on Habits and Hustle. We get primed before we get into the nitty gritty. Yep, let's do it. Yeah. And since you guys are also health and wellness fanatics, like me, we'll have a lot to talk about today. Let's do it.

All right. So this is why I'm having Katie and Josh on the podcast, because I have been using their, I guess, the company for a short time, just only a short time. But what they do is basically they come to your house, not them personally.

But they have a nurse or a phlebotomist come take your blood. And what they do is they take a very close analysis of 80 biomarkers, correct? 80 biomarkers? Mm-hmm. And they give you afterwards a very personalized and proactive approach to your health and your wellness in everything from women's health, like hormones, peptides, anything longevity. And...

I've really loved, I love you guys. I think you guys are like super down to earth, super cool. I love your company. I wanted people to know who you are and I wanted to hear your story and that's why you're here. So thank you for being here.

Thank you so much. Thank you for having us. Yeah, you're welcome. And now that we had the shot and we're like super, you know, focused, Josh, why don't you start by explaining, because you're not a medical doctor, nor are you, Katie. Right. Explain why you even started going down the path of personalized medicine and why you even did Blokes and Joy in the first place. Yeah, I'll back up a little, just briefly.

to provide some context, but I've been in healthcare for 16 years, worked for a large medical device company called Stryker for about five of those years. I was a spine rep. And then I left Stryker and I became an entrepreneur in healthcare. So this is my sweet spot. And then right before we started Blokes & Joy, we had owned regenerative medicine clinics, i.e. stem cell clinics.

And those were doing really well. And then something happened, which was COVID and it changed the world and it changed our business dynamic completely. We shut down for a solid, probably 90 days and then we slowly ran back up. But during that process, it was a big come to Jesus moment for me because Katie had told me not once, not twice, probably a hundred different times that she was going to divorce me. So that was really the start of Blokes & Joy.

Wow. Well, blokes first. Wait, wait, wait. Not to be like a marriage therapist, but what exactly, why were you going to divorce Josh? You know, when I married Josh, I was 35, and so my focus was to start a family. Right. And as we know, as I think we talked about, when you're 35, it's a geriatric pregnancy. So you need to go. Yeah.

Um, and, and right at that time was he was having issues. He had zero sex drive, like none. I would try everything that I could think of to get him interested. And he just wasn't. And ultimately I was thinking, is it, it's me? Like I've gained weight since we got married. I'm like, what's going on? And of course I like blame myself, but you know, that's, that's the start of it. And we,

you know, figured out what it was finally, but it took him a while and was way too hard to figure out. So. Yeah. Wow. Okay. I had no sex drive. I had no idea why I also gained. How old were you at this point? I was in my early thirties at this point. And, and, and there's a, there's a, there's some pretty big events that happened in this timeframe, but I was also just like a grinder when it came to work. I I've lived a high stress life.

high income type jobs where it was just constantly moving. I was taking doctors out all the time. So I was drinking lots of wine, eating lots of steaks, you know, big, big meals. And I let my body go and that didn't help anything. I was 50 pounds heavier than what I am now. And my blood pressure was through the roof. My waist circumference was, you know, in the 40s. So I was like the classic definition of metabolically unhealthy at that time. And

Coming from being an athlete, I played rugby at a high level. It didn't feel right, but it happened on such a slow period of time that I just kind of just let it fall to the wayside. And...

It took me a while to realize, almost like an alcoholic to some extent, it took me a while to realize like, yeah, I don't have a sex drive. I haven't seen the inside of a gym in ages. I don't even care to. The only thing I can do is drink a shit ton of coffee to get through the day and just grind it out. And COVID was the first thing in a decade that slowed me down.

that told me all that exterior stress that I was experiencing went away. Like I didn't have a business. Like it was there, but there was nothing happening. I'm like, holy shit, my life feels pretty good. Like I actually want to go work out. I want to go do this. But at that time, the problem was too big and I needed to get help. And she was ultimately the catalyst that said, dude,

go get some help or I'm going to divorce you. I mean, this was, we were on the rocks and I have two, we have two beautiful kids. And the thing that we talk about is we also went through four miscarriages and Katie can dive into that. And it's something that I'm so passionate about as a man. And because I,

you, you, you're rarely told as the woman's going through that process that you're changing with it. And I mean, the first pregnancy, we ate all kinds of burgers. I got fat. I never lost it. Got fatter again. And you got fat. That's funny. Like that's, you know, it's, they, I hear that all the time, right? Like it's not just the woman. You're also like, you're not even pregnant, but you're gaining all the weight. Right. Cause yeah. Yeah.

And it's not just a saying. There's physical changes that are happening that are keeping up with your partner. Hormonal changes. Hormonal changes. In particular, testosterone, estrogen, progesterone. There's even studies that show that prolactin in men change. Really? Oh, you bet. While the woman is pregnant? Totally. What study is this? And what do they say exactly? I don't know the exact study, but the study is that the prolactin –

The little bit of data is that prolactin increases so the dad can be more alert, which is interesting. But testosterone levels drop. Estrogen levels go up. And any time that combo is happening and stress, cortisol, your stress is going up. For me, I was scared as hell to be a dad. I really was. We joke and we laugh that I played the Phil Collins song, One More Night, because I just wanted one more night by ourselves, you know? Yes.

And so like I was a mental midget when it came to it. And then it ended up happening. I love that expression. It was the best thing. I do too. And bravo for admitting it. Thank you. I love that expression. I was. But hold on. My friend who's going to be here later, his saying is the tallest midget. The tallest midget in the room is another expression I like.

I'm going to use that one. A mental... Okay, sorry. That's amazing. Okay, go on. So I did not really think through that. And I also let my body go. But ultimately, to wrap it up, I went and saw multiple physicians, internal med docs. I reached out to the doctors I knew because I have Rolodex of doctors, physicians, surgeons. And

really the consensus was there's nothing wrong. You're normal. Go back home and, you know, lose 10 pounds. That it was really maybe the, the, the gist of it. Checked my blood. Testosterone levels were looked at, weren't even really brought into the equation. Now they did check them. They did. But you know, at that time I'm in my mid thirties and I,

What was your levels? Low 200s, which is literally the definition of hypogonadism, which is the true definition of low testosterone. Right. For a man, for sure, right? Oh, for a mid-30-year-old man, I should have been 700, 800, 900, maybe higher. But the reality was nobody addressed it. Yeah.

And I literally just sheer luck. I threw up kind of a, a hell Mary to my brother-in-law and my sister. And I said, here's what's happening. Here's what's going on in our life. I'm, I'm, I'm a piece of shit, you know, like I had to ultimately what I came to. And I was told I was normal.

And I was fortunate that I went and saw a guy. It was extremely inconvenient, but he got me on the right track. And that physical change happened. My mental fortitude changed. My mental drive changed. My physical ability changed. I felt different. I had a sex drive.

which like she was like, Jesus, chill out, you know? Really? Yeah, totally. How long did it take to kind of get back to a normal baseline? 30 days to start feeling the changes, 30 days. 30 days, okay. But probably six months before I was like, wow, I'm in the zone.

But within that 30 days, the entrepreneur in me said, holy shit, if this is happening to me, a guy who's been in healthcare for 16 years, at that time, 13, 13 years, how many other people is this happening to? I was gaslit. How many other people are being gaslit? We now know because we've been in this almost three years, there's a whole gaggle of people being gaslit. Our country is metabolically unhealthy and we're

We are suffering and we are suffering from a preventative and proactive care standpoint. And that's all we've become. So that's interesting to me because I do feel like there's been a real spike in overall, like personalized medicine. Like a lot of companies are coming to the surface now who probably have kind of noticed the same things with preventative care and prevention.

I guess, regular MDs, they're not, they don't, they're not concerned so much. I feel with like the testosterone, like overall, like hormone levels, even like when I go and my, my testosterone is like at like literally almost zero probably. And they're like, no, no, no, it's fine. You're a, you're a woman. It doesn't matter. You don't need it. And they don't even, it's very overlooked.

very overlooked. And as a man, I'm surprised though, because I guess it happens with men as well when you go to the doctor. But so your regular doctor is basically like, just go home and lose weight. And then this other doctor, from what you're saying, is he the one who puts you on like, was it like a shot of testosterone? What did he give you? Was it a cream? Was it a pellet? It was a cream. And you know, this is just my experience. This is not universal, but I did not do extremely well with the cream. I just felt it to be kind of a

a pain and a mess. And I was like, dude, I'm leaving you. And then he prescribed me an injection. So I switched to injections. And that was when things just clicked and started happening really quickly for me. What number were you at then? We went from 200 to- Well, I can tell you, I just got my labs done. I'm at 1,100 right now.

1,100? That is high. No, our optimal range for men is 800 to 1,200 nanograms per deciliter. You're going to fluctuate. And we do subcutaneous injections on most men. That's not always, but we do that mostly. And we do it biweekly, so twice a week. And your levels are going to be somewhere between, my levels probably within a week are 800 to 1,200 on any given day.

Wow. So what's the difference between when you were at 200 versus when you were at 1,100? Like what are the physical, mental traits that you have now? I mean, I literally say it's like comparing a Ford Fiesta to a Ferrari.

My body and my mind are all of a sudden clicking. I all of a sudden am in the driver's seat of a high-performance machine. I've never had a bigger appetite to work out. I've never had a bigger appetite to prioritize my health, mental health and physical health. I've never...

had more patience with my children, my wife. Oh God, yeah. It gives you this edge to just want to live healthier and better. And you could do exactly what I do and not make those changes, but it gave me a cheat code to start making those changes and habit stacking with everything I've done.

I've lost that 50 pounds. I've gotten stronger. Everything about my life has improved. And the beautiful thing is we started this company selfishly for ourselves, but then we started changing and seeing so many other people we're impacting. And it's just like a broken record. We are improving almost every life we touch. That's incredible. So then...

You were talking about how you initially were in the stem cell space. That's no longer because stem cells, we were talking about this earlier. Are they illegal now in the U.S. more or less? What is the protocol and what's the FDA? What is the current situation in the U.S. for stem cells? Yeah, so there's a whole big novel of guidelines to biologics and regenerative medicine stem cells.

fall under that. Where the line was drawn in the sand is umbilical cord tissue, umbilical cord blood, even though it's FDA approved for cancer, but it's really the lack of research that's in that. So anything that's coming from, you know, a scheduled C-section, which was happening, and I do believe in that side of the business, is really, if it's happening, it's

it's gray or, you know, off limits area. But what it's done is it's create this vacuum for offshore clinics to basically take MSCs, mesenchymal stem cells, culture them, grow them, expand them, and then throw them back in patients from a young umbilical cord. So you can still do autologous, which we talked about. It's coming from yourself. So bone marrow, fat, PRP, all that you can do right now in the United States with no problem. You can probably find a clinic within five miles from here offering it.

Wow. But you're not, you're not in your current situation. You're not doing any of those anymore. No. I mean, we're, we're virtual. So, you know, we're licensed in all 50 States and, um,

To be frank, I like this side of the business because as sexy as stem cells sound, you know, we are treating a much different demographic. You know, our sweet spot was 65, 67 years old. And you're treating a lot of people who suffer from osteoarthritis, knees, hips, joints, and there's nothing wrong with that. But I love being on the preventative and proactive side of care. I think we can...

prevent people from going down that unhealthy route that, you know, that total sick care cycle. That's what I was going to ask you. So because let's just finish with your personal story. So then you went on testosterone. What other things have you done to help with your health? Like what else are you on right now? Yeah. It started with testosterone and you're still on it.

Yeah, I'm a guinea pig for everything that we do. And I love that. There's not a peptide I haven't tried. There's not, you know, there's everything that has been out in the market. I've tried it. Right now, I'm on a growth hormone, Securitagog. So, Samorlan. Oh, Samorlan, yes. That's a peptide. Yeah, and it's great for anti-aging. It's great for...

muscle. It's great for energy. It's great for sleep. I take NAD. I take a nasal spray. I take an injection of it. There's gut healing peptides that I take from time to time. And that's really kind of my sweet spot in obviously TRT. And then I just dabble with things from time to time like glutathione, B12, anything that is going to give me a lift in life. I'm open to it.

The peptides for me, I'm very curious about them because it's literally a 50-50 split. I have people who, a lot of my friends, people who really believe that they've done wonders for them. Other people don't feel them at all. Some say that if you're prone to, like if cancer runs in your family, taking some oralin or any of these things can be actually harmful or dangerous. Like what is your...

take on all that stuff. I forgot about one peptide. I do take Terzepatide. Is that a peptide though? It is a peptide. It's a glucogen-like peptide GIP. So it's in the peptide family. It's in the peptide family. Just so you know, GLP-1 is like the weight loss drug that's Ozempic. What he's talking about, what is it called again? So Terzepatide, yeah, it's a compounded version of two FDA-approved drugs, Monjaro and Zepbound.

And for me, it's been an absolute game changer. For how? How has it been a game changer? Well, I was a lot fatter, if you remember. 50 pounds fatter, actually. 50 pounds heavier. And it's given me the food freedom that I never had. And well...

I didn't have for a long time. But there's so many other things that came with that. My BMI is down. My waist size went from, you know, 40 to now I'm a 36. My blood pressure went from, you know,

You know pretty high to in a very optimized state the other thing when I started this company My a1c levels were on paper. They were diabetic I just got my blood done before I came here and I got the results just a couple days ago My a1c is like in a almost a perfect position. So like so many things have improved with that. I

That's so interesting. A, I didn't realize that the GLP-1 was considered a peptide because I just put it under the category umbrella of a weight loss drug. But-

I mean, we're going to get to you, Katie, in one second with the women's side, because I have a hell of a lot of questions. But what I'm interested in, when you're doing so many things, right, when you're doing the testosterone, when you're doing all these peptides, how do you know which is working on what, right? Like, that's the problem. Are you starting with one to see how far you get and then you're adding? How are you knowing what is working, what is not, if you're doing so many things at once? Yeah, I've been at it a long time. So, you know...

My body is in a very optimal state of testosterone. So I know how my body feels from that. I know how my body reacts and feels from, from some Orlin. Some of these can start, not to interrupt, but I just want to make sure it's clear. So how long were you on testosterone before you incorporated some Orlin or incorporated trizepatide?

- Right away. - Oh, right away. - So what I was gonna say is some of these can be antagonists and some of them can work synergistically. We would never try to put somebody on two different growth hormones 'cause you're not gonna know the difference. But the rule of thumb I have is like hormones are the foundation of your house. You gotta have a healthy base.

to then add on to that. I got my levels pretty dialed in pretty quickly. And then I could start adding on and putting in the fixtures and putting all the nice things that I think peptides can do. But I also had just a weight issue that I needed to address pretty quickly. And that getting my weight in line, I think inversely helped everything else too. Yeah. It's also, okay. So, cause that one that you were saying that tries epitite, since it's a peptide, it works on, just so people understand, it works on two separate

receptors basically. So Ozempic and that GLP-1 works on one receptor. The Trizepatide works on two receptors, right? So technically, is it just way more effective than semiglutide, which is the... Yeah, it's...

I don't know if it's way more is the right word. And honestly, it's different for everybody. We'll have some people that'll switch and say, actually, I liked the semaglutide better. So it really depends. And you might have to try both. But the studies show that the trizepatide is up to 20% weight loss in a certain amount of time, where the semaglutide is 14% to 15% weight loss. So there is a little bit more effectiveness there.

But the biggest thing with trisepatite is that there's less side effects, which is a big deal. Less nausea, less acid reflux, that kind of stuff. So yeah, just before you were on, I had Max Lugavere here and he was telling me someone in his family, we talked about this on the podcast,

is on the semi-glutide. And yes, they've lost like 15 pounds in two months, but they're like so exhausted that they literally can't get up. They're like, it's like the worst like side effect. So like, yeah, you might be thinner, but if you have like a bad quality of life, it's not that great, right? So like, I think you and I were talking about this a little bit last night, even Katie, but-

But I was told, not by Max, this is now not about Max, but like Dr. Mary, what was that woman? Dr. Mary Claire Haver. Yes, Mary Claire Haver. She was telling me on the podcast that women who are now on hormones, when they add a semiglutide or a GLP-1 drug or...

they're losing up to 30% belly fat now. It's 30% more effective. Yeah, 30% more effective. I think I saw that study that she posted as well. For sure. And it makes sense. I mean, because when we think of hormones, they're like the foundation. So there's nothing that's going to, you know, flake.

If you don't have hormones or if your hormones are declining like they do in perimenopause and menopause, there's nothing. There's no supplement, lifestyle change, magic pill that will do what your hormones do. So your hormones are just an important part of everyday life and function and vitality.

So it makes sense that they work together. And part of the reason, honestly, especially if you add in testosterone, is that you're able to build and maintain more lean muscle mass, which we know is so important for losing weight and doing it the right way and being able to keep it off.

So if you combine those things and do the right dosing, like we talked about this, go lower and slower. You're not trying to like, the point is not to starve yourself and eat. You still need to eat, you know, three meals a day. So if you're, if there's something going on where you're like, I'm, I don't feel like eating, you're taking too high of a dose. You're taking too much, right. The thing that it's, to me, it's designed to do is to create better habits, right?

So this is the thing though, right? I think what's happened is a lot of times people are not doing it for the right... They're jumping right into taking it. They're not using it as a last resort. And so they're not learning behavioral change. So they're not learning these new habits. And they're not incorporating the diet, the exercise. They're just taking...

the drug and then losing weight and then not really... Like they're not adopting all the other things. I think it's a different story when you're doing all the right things and then you add this up to supplement what you're doing already. It's a whole different ballgame, right? Yeah. But what I was going to say, because I want to ask you about all the hormones and I find it interesting because...

No matter... There's been such a fear factor in women getting on testosterone because they feel nervous that they're going to gain weight, that they're going to bloat. I'm one of those women, by the way. I'm not just talking for a friend. I'm talking for myself because...

of all these like things I've heard for so many years, right? I'm going to grow facial hair. I'm going to have rage. I'm going to do this. And it's always been like a male driven hormone that we think it is, even with all the research and studies coming out that it's actually not necessarily true. Are you on testosterone?

I am. It's one of the first things that I did on my journey. You did. And it made a big difference, right? Huge difference. So this is interesting because I have a lot of people, a lot of friends I know who it changed their life. It gave them energy. It helped them with lean muscle. It helped them with all the things that you don't even know that you're really lacking. Brain fog, inflammation. Right. All these things. Yeah.

I mean, I hate to say it, but like when you're in your 40s, like these things start to like very quickly decline. Yeah. Right. Not quickly. I should say that's not true. Slowly decline that you don't even know that it's happening. So that's what kind of, that's what tricks your brain. You're like, it can't be that. It must be that I'm just like super tired or I'm overworked or it's my kids or you don't know what's wrong.

And so it's always the last thing that people check or they go to the doctor. Yeah. And they're like, oh, you're fine. Even though you have a 10 testosterone, you're fine. Well, it's normal. It's normal. It's normal. So why is that? Why do they... Yeah, your hat. Fuck normal. Why are doctors not comfortable or why do they not...

address or attack this hormone problem like regular MDs. I don't understand it. I'll tell you why. Okay, tell me. They're not trained that way. I will tell you that only one in five OBGYNs are trained in menopause care. So for

four out of five women will go to their OBGYN and be told they're fine, they're normal. They get gaslit. They say, I want to check my hormones. I mean, I literally hear this every day from women who say, I want to know this or that number. And they get denied, whether it's because insurance doesn't cover it or the doctor doesn't think it's necessary. They're denied this information and told, you know, maybe you're... They're not listened to. We don't feel listened to. And it's not because the doctor is

bad or they don't care, it's literally because that's not how they're trained. There's no menopause care in OBGYN. And so this makes me so angry because even though there's a movement, which I think is fantastic for women in menopause,

Right now, we, you know, we're even perimenopause, right? Yeah, same category. Yeah. Like we're being we're getting more loud about it, which is fantastic. We know that we don't have to suffer in silence anymore. We know that there are options. So it's and I feel like we're at the beginning of it.

But I still feel like we're doing a lot of it wrong because I see women every day that are coming to us fearful and they're confused. Yeah. Because there's just not enough information out there. And there are experts in the space who are very well credentialed

and who know a lot and who treat people, and they're saying different things. And they're saying things that are confusing and scaring women. And so one thing that I would like to see changed is how we approach this. Like you've mentioned several times that you're scared of the testosterone. And fear is just a lack of information. So really what we need to do is

is educate women in a way that's not scary, in a way that's not confusing. And we need to realize that there's not just one way to do things, because this is like my main point that I hear all the time is all these conflicting statements from people. Like one example I'll give you is, you know, no one should do hormone pellets, pellet therapy. Yeah. I think I'm the one who was actually, I said, yeah, I've heard a lot of like a lot of

most people I know, I've had a few friends who are on them and they really like them. It's worked for them. Majority of people I know don't like them because they over testosterone you, they give you too much. So if you do have too much, there's no way to back it out. It's stuck in your, it's stuck in your body for what, three months or four months. Exactly. So you can't control the amount. So that's, and then people are then have way too much in them. That's the,

And I totally agree with that statement. We don't do pellets and we don't recommend them. And if someone comes to me and says like, what should I do? I would say, here are all your options. And I'd say the pros and cons of each. But what I don't like is that we're scaring women and saying, you can never do this. Because the thing is, it does work for some women. I have a really good friend that I work with and she will tell you that it saved her life. Yeah. I have a really great friend also who's like,

thinks it's the best thing that's ever happened to her. So I don't like that we're shaming those women or we're scaring women into going like, if I do this, then what's going to happen? I think women are smart. We're smart consumers. I think we should know what all the options are and then you choose what's right for you. You know, and I, again, I wouldn't recommend pellets, but I also think like the way we're shaming and scaring women is honestly just scary.

scaring them away from getting help and treatment. True. But I will say there's a lot of people who are just like money or like are money grabbing and a

a pellet is let's say 600 bucks, 700 bucks. And it's a very easy thing you can churn out. Like I know doctors who are like a functional medicine doctor and they're like churning and burning. They're coming here. I'll give you a pellet next up. It's like a cattle call. And he's putting in like 50 of these things in a day without giving people options. Or a lot of times like people, you've got to say to the, like me or a consumer, like if I don't know any better,

And my doctor is telling me to go get or do a pellet. And I don't know that there's a different option such as a cream or the, what do you call it? Or the- Injection. Injection. And he's only telling me about a pellet and then I do it and it's way too much testosterone. Then I'm going to be like really sick and unhappy, right?

Right? Yes. Okay. I am so glad you brought this up. Right. Because this is my other point of what I think we're scaring women on. I've heard that a lot. Pellets are expensive and it's just a money grab. And I'm not arguing, I don't know. I'm sure they do make a lot of money on that. They are trained, like the pellet makers literally came out and said, we're going to train these people to do this. And you know, this is the retail price and this is what they make. So yes, they are making money on that.

But I still think that's like a freaking scare tactic to say, don't do this because they're just making money on it. Here's my real hot take on this, if I can just get on my soapbox. Yeah, go ahead. Everybody is making money. Yeah. If you're a doctor selling supplements, you're going to make money. If you're a doctor seeing patients, you're going to make money. If you're a hospital, a clinic, you need to make money. We need to make money to...

You know, pay the bills and keep the lights on. 100%. If you're a speaker or an influencer, you need to make money. So I feel like level the playing field on, like, who's making money. We are. Because you all need to. True. But the thing is, like, I guess my issue is when people come in without any information...

and they have no knowledge, and someone says to you, this is the only way to do it, that's a problem. That is a huge problem. That's what I'm saying. We need to educate women to say there's a lot of options. Right. Here's one option. Here's two options. Here's three. And I think if someone's a beginner, I think it's very irresponsible to go from zero to 60 and put somebody on a pellet if they've never done it before and they're nervous and

and scared, then you're going to like shoot them up with 300, you know, whatever CCs, whatever, whatever they're measured in, like maybe like go slow and see how they react and respond. So like, to me, there's a lot of quacks out there. That's why you've got to be very discerning of who you're getting your information from. Well, the pellet people are probably just, those are people that are only trained in pellets. Right. And, and the, the,

I think the issue you're talking about is an access issue because I think the pellet people were trained early on from the pellet makers to do this. No, I'm not. I mean, really? And so it's, this is like one of our first options to get testosterone as women. And so a lot of people have done that. So it's really more about access. And, but now that we're having, we have more options. We're one of them. And there are a handful of other really great telehealth

companies that are providing other options for people. You know, one thing I was going to say is OBGYNs or gynecologists or whatever, they are prescribing creams though for people, but you have to be proactive. Like if I'll say, I said to my doctor that I have low testosterone, she wasn't going to do anything. And she's like, okay, I'll give you a cream. Now the truth is those creams, I'm going to be honest. They're like, you might as well put Nivea cream on. Like it's like the same thing. They're very, very,

like benign. They're not really going to do anything. You're not going to like jack up your lean muscle mass and like get brain acuteness from the, from the cream. It's like a very entry level thing. That would be a beginner move, right? Yeah. And it depends on how you absorb it. It could be great for some women. It could be great. I'm just saying like, why do doctors then put you on cream, but they won't prescribe an injection that they will not do to women. It's not true. Cause that's not how we operate.

Not you. I'm saying if I went to my OBGYN. I just think it's a lack of education. I mean, this has become such a niche and specialized field. It would be like me going to a urologist for my knee issue when I should be going to see an orthopedic person. I think there has to be a little bit of

ownership in the patient's hand too. Like one of the things that we say all the time is you have to own your journey. We're going to help you. We're going to guide you. We're going to make sure it's safe, but you still got to do the other work. You still got to eat

Well, you still got to prioritize sleep, prioritize your stress. Like you got to do the right things. The same thing happens when you're embarking on this journey to optimize your hormones. You maybe shouldn't just go to the one doctor. You should maybe go to two or three and do some research on your own and know that there's some other options. I've been in this business a long time. We were talking about these, these pellet people, um,

Some of these doctors might believe that is the best option for their patients. And that's why they're only offering it. We like to put the consumer in the driver's seat because we know when we do that, we're going to have better outcomes. We're

We're going to have better results because they're owning that journey and we're going to nudge them and help them and guide them down that pathway. To me, the injection way is a better way of controlling whatever you're putting yourself. Like it's because you're going to take these injections. How often are you taking it? Like does a testosterone, like twice a week? We usually split dose. So we do it twice a week. Yeah.

And then you, I would imagine, Joy, like you created this because of all the women health, like all the women's health issues that have become important to you. You wanted to do the same thing that Josh did on the bloke side, but for women, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I wasn't paying attention when Josh started blokes. I was trying to just have babies. All right.

I was like, all right. So that's, I mean, that's why we are two, basically right now we're two different brands is because he started Blokes first. And then, and then later on, I went through, you know, a really tough five, six years of, of trying to have a family. Looking back now, I'm like, oh my God, I was so naive as to how that process was going to go. It was just much harder on me than I knew it could be.

Wow. In what ways would you say? We had a bunch of miscarriages. Our first baby was so traumatic for us both because she had just a genetic fatal defect. So we were kind of forced with this horrible situation I never thought I would be in where it's like your baby's not going to make it. It makes me cry just to think about it. So we were basically forced to end it early. And that was one of the hardest things I've ever done.

Oh, wow. Sorry. Oh, no. That's horrible. And we had to experience that. Not the trisomy, but we had to experience that three more times.

There was three more miscarriages after that. There was three more miscarriages. But I will tell you. I'm so sorry for you. Thank you. Yeah. I've never seen her in probably anything more dedicated to one thing. And that time period, it was just about having babies. Yeah. Like our life was literally consumed by it. And I think to some extent because of that trauma, it was just physically and mentally challenging.

really hard on our relationship, obviously us individually. And she was diving in and I was diving out. And physically, we were both going through these crazy hormonal changes, physical changes. And it was just a gnarly experience. And I can tell you from an outsider looking at her,

She just got done breastfeeding our son, Rowdy. Great name. And was like, holy shit. For me, there was a little bit of vindication because she didn't have a sex drive at that point. Yeah. I was like, yo. Yeah, mid-switch. I told you. It wasn't just me. I didn't think you were under.

unattractive. And she's like, oh, this is how it feels. Now I get it. I'm good. I don't need it now. So, you know, by the way, before you started taking your testosterone, like what was your level? So I basically, after, after all of that, I was in my early forties when I had my, my second child and I,

felt horrible, looked horrible. I had no energy to take care of them. And that's when I was like, well, what do I do now? Because I also felt very abandoned. If you look at how many appointments and how much help I had to get pregnant, to stay pregnant, to have my babies. Yeah.

And then after that, it was like, you're good. Have a nice life. And I was like, I'm actually not good. And where do I get help? So I went through the men's side. I went through the program. I did this huge deep dive lab. I started looking at my thyroid, doing my hormones. And testosterone was one of the first therapies I got on. And it just helped me.

start getting me motivated, start going, working out in the gym. I felt like I was getting stronger and that was exciting. It's a good push in the, it's like, it's a good kick in the butt to get something started. Yeah. Brain fog too, by the way, because I knew there was one time when I was like, there's no way I could go back to work just with how my brain felt after

and going through all that, I was like, I can't do a simple math equation. So it helped lift that brain fog for me, which was fantastic. By the way, girl, wait, because even though like it's going to happen again, like I was saying, you know, I think also like as the kids get older, your brain fog doesn't get any better actually. Trust me. I can't do a math equation for my, I cannot do third grade math if it's to save my life, honestly. And my brain fog is just. All right.

It's terrible. Why don't we get you on a little bit of testosterone? I know. I have to just bite the bullet with the testosterone because I know that it could be a real game changer with the hormones. It could be. It very well could be. And let me tell you this. If you don't like it, then you can say it's not for me and get off it.

Well, that's why the injections I feel are very important. By the way, I urge everybody here, I talk about this. Funnily enough, I was posting about this today, completely coincidentally that you guys were coming on, but I think it's so important for people to get their blood panel checked.

Like regularly because your – what do you call it? Your hormone levels, everything changes all the time and people don't know what they don't know. So people should be getting that what? What do you think? Like every six to four – four to six months people should get this stuff checked? I think if you're not on treatments, it should be no less than twice a year and it should be more complete.

panels, not just the onesies and twosies that we see so much at a primary care internal med doc. Talk about that. What's to tell people? Because I think it's people don't know what they don't know. I mean, I have a little bit of insider knowledge because I've been in the lab space for a long time as well. And there's something called reactive-based testing.

And what happens is you come in, you have a symptom, the doctor goes, I'm going to test you for these two markers. And then you come back, you see the doctor and then they go, you know what? It's off. We're going to test you for this marker. So you're never getting that whole picture. Yeah. One thing that we believe in is if we're going to treat and if we're going to diagnose, it's kind of this, you know, test, don't guess mentality.

So even our most baseline panels still coming equipped with 40 biomarkers. So we can make a really good deep dive into your health by looking at a ton of different biomarkers, asking the right questions, and that just puts you on a warpath to just get healthier.

What do you get with 80? What are you checking for with a panel with 80 biomarkers versus 40 biomarkers? It's just more depth, but for our 40 biomarker, we're still doing, call it light hormones. No major inflammatory markers, no stress markers.

we're getting your CVCs, we're getting your complete metabolic panel, but as you go, we're adding thyroid, we're adding inflammation, full thyroid, we're adding inflammatory markers like C-reactive protein, cortisol, we're adding ApoB, important heart markers to really then deep dive. And I say, you're starting to get into that more longevity space. You're starting to get

way ahead of reacting. You're getting in a very proactive state when you start adding more markers. So talk about more than, okay, so obviously we kind of covered hormones and being on top of your health in that way, right? Like getting them checked, seeing where you're low, if you're deficient, how you could supplement for them. What else can people be looking for for optimizing their health and their longevity besides just hormones? So I know...

You have with Joy, do you guys have a same, like what's similar, what's different? They're pretty similar panels. Yeah. There's a few markers here or there between sexes, but they're very. On the women's side, what's added or subtracted?

Because, I mean, we're all in this 80 biomarkers. We probably all check in the same stuff, correct? Yeah, I mean, the prostate for guys. Yeah, there's a PSA. That's really it. Well, that's a big one though, isn't it? Yeah, no, totally. And, you know, what I will tell you is

Very similar approach. This is a human thing. This isn't a male-female thing. I was going to say, this is a, yeah. And the reality is we just analyze markers differently depending on the male or the female. Right, right. And some have more of an emphasis. Like testosterone levels for a female is going to be completely different than an optimal range for a man. Right. The same with progesterone, the same with estrogen. But there's some universal markers that you just want to be in a healthy range, like A1C and C-reactive protein. It's an art and it's a science.

So walk me through this. So people get their 80 biomarkers checked and then the nurse goes home. Then you guys put together a very preventative, proactive plan for the person. What else is there besides like testosterone, peptides? What else is provided as options? Supplements? Like what kind of supplement? Like how else are you guys optimizing people's health?

You want me to go? Yeah. Sure. One of the things that was important... Oh, by the way, besides the estrogen cream, we're going to get to that face cream in a second. Yeah. It's a real treat for you ladies and men. I think one of the things that was very important for us as a company was to create an ecosystem for everyone. I think that...

that labs are the foundation to creating a healthier life. It's just such a great deep dive into your health, what's going on at that time. And outside of the hormones, outside of the peptides, outside of the GLP-1 agonists, we've developed this algorithm called smart supplements where we're taking your biomarkers, and you'll see this as you evolve in our process, but we're going to address your supplements through your deficiencies.

We're going to give you a supplement pack that's solely designed for your nutrition and biomarker deficiencies that are going to be very precise in how they're actually addressing your issues. Beautiful thing about it, comes in a nice pack, has your name on it, so it's extremely personalized.

I like to, you know, I've always had a love-hate relationship with the supplement space just because it's always been the wild, wild west coming from medical. And this was our way of saying, you know what, if we're going to treat you, we're going to treat you with precision when it comes to supplementation.

So what kind of supplements are the options? Like what are the things that you've noticed now that people are usually very deficient in? Probably the most common is vitamin D. Vitamin D. Still vitamin D. Oh, my God. Yeah, yeah. I don't think we're getting the sun that we used to. Vitamin D is a huge one. Is it because people are wearing sunscreen as well? Sunscreen, sunglasses, covering up. I think so, yeah. We're inside always. Yeah. Yeah.

And there's things that lower it, you know, like there's women are on birth control pill for decades and there's medications, antibiotics, and all that kind of stuff can lower your vitamin and some minerals. Staring at your phone constantly has, you know, there's all kinds of, you know, things that kind of mess with our natural, you know, production of vitamin D and all that, you know, all the vitamins. Yeah.

Yeah, I think, you know, and then there's a whole slew, but that's the one that we found some research that says like 40% of Americans, what we see coming in our clinic is probably closer to 90% of people are deficient. I'm deficient. I'm getting on a prescription version of vitamin D.

Really? Yeah. I had a clinical consult before I came here and they're like, dude, this is just, it's ongoing. Like you got to treat it. And I've been treating it with supplements, but now I'm going to get on a prescription version of it that's a little stronger and it's a once a week capsule versus daily and hopefully it improves. Really? Yep. So you guys, can you guys give that type of prescription for...

Wow. Sure. Okay. What other, give me some other supplements that you, what do you think of this idea of, what do you call it? When supplements are, there's a specific word for it. Methylated? Methylated. Yeah. Methylated supplements. Do you know what this is? Yeah. I mean, I think there's something like 40% of people have that MTH.

FHR gene mutation. So it's hard, it's harder for them to metabolize some of those supplements. So if you give them the methylated version, then it's better for them to be able to actually use it. It's really B12. That is the primary focus on that one. It's B12. Yeah. And then how do you know if someone needs methylated? Got to get a test for it. Yeah. Do you guys test for that too? There's a genetic test for it. Yeah. Genetic testing. Correct. Yeah. I mean, we, we

We have not brought out genetic testing. We've been, we've been slow on it. It's, it's a crowded space. I think it's a great way to look under the hood and I've done genetic testing on myself and I, and I think there's merit to it, but to truly optimize, I think you really need to focus on your blood work. Yeah. What else would you say are other things that like, are you,

Because that estrogen cream, I'm serious. It does change the texture. Your face looks amazing. I know you have great genetics. But can you tell people about this cream? Because I'm telling you, I want this cream. I'm not being paid to say this, guys. I swear. I am going to send you this cream because I honestly really do believe in it. We've come out with this. It has a couple of different power ingredients. One is GHK copper peptide.

and that's very regenerative for your cellular turnover. You know, people use it actually on like scars and stretch marks. It's that, you know, healing. And then it also contains estrogen, and estriol is the form of estrogen that it contains, because we know estrogen really helps with our collagen production. A crazy stat is that women lose something like...

I said 30% of their skin firmness in the first five years of menopause because of that loss of estrogen. Yeah. So it contains those two things and then a couple other little vitamins in there and

There was one month where I had three random people of different patients and friends text me and say that it's time for my Botox and I don't need it. It's extended my time in between Botox. So I love it. That's the only thing that I really use and will always use it. And I'm going to send it to you. No, it's amazing. So, okay. So then besides, so you supplement, so vitamin D, what was the, okay, you said...

How about omega-3s? How about all the basics? Besides the basics, though, what else can you supplement that people could be deficient in? I mean, so the formulary that is coming from

the smart supplements is somewhere around 45 different supplements and there's the basics. And then you can get ashwagandha, tangada li, DHEA, all kinds of different things. Yeah. And really the beauty is we're not driving the ship. Like we have a software that helps us drive it. And then we look at the biomarkers and we say, oh, your DHEA is low. Well, that's what we should be supplementing with. The reality is

people are coming with more than we can even put in that pill pack so you just start with the most important yeah but it's really interesting because i told you i had a love-hate relationship with supplementation

We have seen firsthand changes of people who are not ready to get in the hormones, not ready to get in the peptides. We have an influencer who works with us. His name's Cold Plunge Cam. And he's been very honest and open. What's his name? His IG name is Cold Plunge Cam. Yeah, his name's Cameron Lamar. What's his name? No, what's his name? Cold Plunge Cam. Cold Plunge Cam. Yeah. Is that the same one you saw? Okay. Yeah. Okay. I think I saw it today, actually. So it's remarkable. So I tell this.

Because he was like the awakening for me with this because he's like, I'm not ready for that. I'm still in my 30s. But I am going through some really, really gnarly mental health issues. And he's been dealing with this for his whole life, honestly. And I think there was a lot of issues as a child in terms of his diagnosis that he's realizing. And he's trying to address it naturally. And he's trying to get off a SSRI. So I got a text from him on Sunday. He's like,

He just randomly said, hey, dude, thank you.

Thank you for encouraging me to get blood work. Thank you for encouraging me to address this with supplementation. And he's now officially off all his medications. Really? Just by supplementing? That and obviously cold plunging and, you know, lifestyle adjustments. But he's worked very hard. You can follow his journey because he obviously advises like no one to just get off him. No, it's been a journey. It's a huge journey and he works very hard at it. But it's the first time, you know...

his words and I'll kind of paraphrase it, but he was in the driver's seat. He was pushing back on his doctors and saying, no, no, no, I want to go this route. It's time. And I have help. I'm looking at my biomarkers differently. It was funny. He, um, he went to his parents and he's like, oh my God, my DHEA is so bad. And you can address that easily through supplementation. And he went to his parents and his parents like, yeah, we've always had low DHEA.

And he's like, uh, hello? Like I've been struggling with mental health issues my whole life. And you haven't told me like some of the things that genetically could improve just by supplementation. So the power of that.

is powerful. Like it's it precise supplementation is extremely powerful. Yeah, no, I totally agree with that. Because I guess, again, I keep on saying this, but people just don't know what they don't know. And if they haven't been taught to take these things more seriously, they just think it's not that important, right? And so I

I think that the idea of being preventative is so important for people. And also, like you said earlier, be your own boss. Take initiative. Don't just rely on what someone tells you. You have to be your own advocate, especially in America. The health care system here is very broken, very broken.

And a lot of people are very sick and are unable to have proper care. It just is what it is. It's tough. It's so complicated. And also, it's so complicated. Yeah. Really, our system is set up. There's a lot of good about the system, and it's set up. Because I know.

Honestly, I don't know where. And I love that you're saying that. I think it's a known thing, isn't it? It is a known thing. I'll tell you, well, I saw a Harris study recently that said 70% of Americans think the healthcare system has failed them. So it's a very real thing. But what they're good at is

emergency medicine, you got a broken bone, you need a surgery, urgent care, you have a diagnosis, you want treatment. Like, so it's something has happened. You want them there. You just said it right there. If something has happened already, but not if something has not happened and you want to be on top of your, of your ship, that's, that's the problem. And that's what we're trying to fix. We're trying to be before that something happens. And I also think it's, you know, obviously it's not just us. There's a,

a huge new boom of the at-home things and the customers that are giving you data. All that data tells you something and gives you options of what to do. Now you're informed. The next step is you take care of it. Yeah. You have to take initiative and execute on it. One thing is knowledge, but then if you have knowledge and don't do anything about it, what good is it for you? That's the bottom line. You have to do something with that knowledge. Yeah.

There's a lot of people who are aware and they don't want to take that initiative. And I think...

just taking the first step in this journey can be pretty powerful. And especially, I think one of the things that people are misinterpreting or not understanding about, you know, the GOP one category, Olympic, Majora, is for the first time, these people are all of a sudden getting a little bit of confidence and pepping their stuff about their diet and about their lifestyle and about having, like I told you, that food freedom that they haven't had in years. I mean,

If you've been obese for 10 years or more, or even a year, that's been a chronic condition that has been ingrained in your lifestyle. That is hard. And if all of a sudden you got this little cheat code, doesn't mean it's going to get you all the way there. You still got to play the game.

But if you got that little cheat code, all of a sudden you have just a little edge to live a healthier life. I also think that it gives you a little hope. Yes. And hope can take you very far in life, right? Very, very far. And if you see, like I always talk about this, that if you actually just see a glimmer that something can be different and hope, that can take you further than anything else, right? So if they see themselves getting a little bit...

stronger or like a little bit like lighter, it will maybe put something in their head. Like they want to continue. It was like, it will help them do the next, do the next move, which is why I think it could be a huge game changer. And it quiets your brain from all the things like you and I, Katie, we're talking this last night. Like I said, we said that I'm not to talk with a set nauseam, but like, it's one thing to take

Anybody can OD on something or take too much, right? Because this idea is more is more, right? But if someone just uses it properly, I think that there could be a lot of advantages for it, really, right? But you have to know. And I think it's important for people to know that be very conscientious. Do your research. Know that...

you should be very discerning who you trust. Do your research, know who the good ones are, who the bad ones are. Talk to your friends and find out because there's so much information on Instagram now and TikTok. That's where people are getting their information from, right? So know who your influences, the people that you're looking at, what are their, who they are.

I think that makes a big difference. I will tell you, so when we are doing a GLP-1 for someone, we'll have monthly follow-ups with a coach. So we'll pair someone with them so that they do a virtual call. They check in and say, how are you doing? And, you know, that's where we guide them on, like, you need to eat. You know, if you're not eating, we need to lower your dose.

If you're having any side effects, we lower your dose. And if you're doing great, you don't always need to increase it. If you're doing great, just stay there because it's slow and steady. I was going to say, did your body acclimate to this stuff? Like do you have to increase it eventually or does your body just like... It really depends on the case. You can. If you have like a ton of weight to lose, then yeah, probably you're going to be titrating up. But if you don't and you're like slowly losing, then there's no need to...

To like up the dose. What if you're not losing, you're just maintaining or like on the semi-glutide, this is just like a side question. What would happen if you're staying on that same dose? Does your appetite just like come back slowly and you start gaining weight again because your body now is so adapted to that amount? No, I think, I mean, so peptides in general can be, are very regenerative. Okay. And so what it's... Right, you called it a peptide before, right? I called it a weight loss drug, but, or a weight loss...

It's in the category. Yeah, it's called all of those things. But so the point of it is it is helping with your metabolic health. And so that's also why you drill in. It's so important for the protein and the lifting weights to keep that muscle so that when you titrate down or get off it, that your muscle is there to then keep you processing your food and burning your fuel. And the hope, like I said earlier, like it's...

it allows you that food freedom to create better habits. And, you know, imagine your body and mind on a six month journey of something where you started creating that stuff, that the the momentum is with you and

Everything in life is momentum. Your husband and I talked about it. I think we are a company that provides momentum. I truly do. By the way, that's exactly what I was just going to say. My husband talked to you about this? Yeah, we talked last night. About this? We were just talking about the power of momentum. Yes. He stole my line.

We talked about a lot last night. I know. I'm just teasing you. But I truly believe that in health. Like if you've been unhealthy and all of a sudden you get a taste of like feeling good. Totally agree. How powerful is that? That's why I think that these things – it's the most powerful thing. That's why it's like I think – again, hope. Like anything that gets you to a place of action where there's momentum because nothing happens with no momentum. Like inertia. Right.

it's very very very important my whole life is based around momentum so

That's why I could not agree with you more. These chairs, by the way, are so uncomfortable. I'm actually enjoying them. Oh my God. I'm so uncomfortable. We have to wrap this podcast. My God. Okay. Josh, Katie, blokes, joy, joy, blokes. You guys are so great. I'm so glad I got to meet you guys. And you guys are awesome. And everyone go get labs. It's very important for your health, your preventative care, just where you are. It's, it's,

Health is wealth. And if you don't have your health, you have nothing. You can't do anything. You can't be there for your kids, your family, your work. To me, it's something that is so overlooked and so under indexed, but the most important thing that we have.

It's unbelievable. Yeah. I'm so glad we met you and your husband. Thank you. We have been on cloud nine after that dinner. It was so much fun. We feel the same way about you guys. That's why I'm so glad that we just got to do this podcast on these uncomfortable chairs. But thank you. And go, what's your, well, your IG or give everyone like the. Yeah. Joy is spelled J-O-I.

by the way. And on Instagram, we're joywomenswellness. And then our website is choosejoy.co. Bloke's is at getbloke's, B-O-O-K-E-S. My daughter always makes fun of me when I say that. And then bloke's.co, super simple. I love it. Thank you guys. Thank you. Bye.