Episode 187: Shaun T – Fitness Trainer, “Insanity”, “Hip Hop Abs”, Podcast Host, and Author
01:36:47 Share

Hi guys, it's Tony Robbins. You're listening to Habits & Hustle. Crush it. All right, you guys. On Habits & Hustle today, we have the one and only Sean T, one of my favorite fitness legends on the planet. He is very well known, probably most well known for some of his smash hits such as Insanity and Hip Hop Abs.

which were probably some of the most successful commercial infomercials ever that's ever hit this planet. But more than that, more than Sean being so successful with these Beachbody programs, he himself is just such a beacon of light. And he has a whole business called Shanti Inc. that is really about trusting and believing. The same name as his podcast, Trust and Believe.

It's about transformation, getting you to be the best version of yourself, getting unstuck, facing difficult situations, and mostly trusting and believing in yourself and doing the hard things. You guys, I really enjoyed having this conversation. Me and Sean, truth be told, we got along from the jump.

We really just became fast friends. And I just love this guy. He really is so inspirational, genuine,

And this podcast really went deep and talked about things, honestly, that I wasn't even expecting for it to do. But if anything, you can see how you are the CEO of your own life. It is up to you to become and be and do what you want and not let anything from your past hold you back or limiting beliefs hold you back. So thank

Really listen to this podcast. I know you're going to enjoy it and glean something from it to really use for your life. Enjoy. Do you play tennis? Oh, God. Don't you tell me that. Are we recording? We are. Oh, yes, I play tennis. I started playing tennis a little over 11 years ago.

I crashed my husband and his mom and dad's vacation two months after I met him to Australia. I had no idea about tennis. I played football, track and field and basketball. Like they were my sports. And when I got down there, they were like, oh, we're going to go to the Australian Open. And I remember sitting in the Westin Hotel in Melbourne and thinking,

I was like, I have no idea what I'm about to watch. I didn't know how to score tennis. They go from 15 to 30 to 40. Love, you know, advantage this and all this stuff. And I remember going to the match and I saw the guys playing and I was like, this is so fucking... Like, I would be a professional tennis player. Like, I was talking all kinds of trash. Right. And then so for...

On Valentine's Day, 2011, Scott bought me a tennis lesson at the National Tennis Center in Queens, New York.

I got the first ball over. I thought I was a shit. And I think I hit every other ball over the curtains and everything. And so I, for the last 11 years have been like obsessed with tennis. That's my, I use, I did use it as my cardio for a while. Cause I just got sick of doing fitness, you know? I totally understand that. Yes. So I got sick of doing fitness anyway from that.

Scott told me, he gets so mad when I tell this story, but he was like, you'll never be able to hit a professional tennis player. And I'm like, do you know who the fuck I am? What do you mean? And I was mad at him for it. I had a grudge for a few years after him saying that. And so two things happened. One, we met Serena. I got to play against Serena.

You know, we played doubles. My team, me and my partner beat Serena. No way. And she was so mad. Like when we were playing, she's so competitive in a good way. She was bombing these balls at me. And she was just like, there were a couple of them. I was like, holy shit. Like if I was playing her one-on-one, she would whoop my ass. But anyway, so I got to play. And then like maybe a year and a half ago,

I remember Scott saying to me, like, I just want to let you know, I think you can beat me in tennis now, but I'll never admit that in public. Oh, my. Well, I feel like anything you do, though, you become good at. Just from the podcast we did on your podcast, like you have a lot of like hidden talents that people either don't know about or you just don't talk about. Or is that true? Like, are you the kind of person that if you put your mind to it, you can become good at it?

Exceptional, I should say, at a lot of things. I think that I am a life's decathlete. Meaning, you know, if I went to the Olympics...

The only thing I could probably, the only thing I would win a gold medal in, if it were an Olympic sport, would be fitness. Like, if it was, like, you have to, like, do a live class. Like, I feel like that's the thing I excel at the most, right? That's your superpower. Like, I would be on the medal stand, you know, first, second, and third. You know, probably gold. But I'm down to lose to really good people. But, yeah.

But so but for me, it's about the trying. Like if I find that I'm capable of doing something, if my mind tells me I can do it.

I can do it. I can sing. I'm not the best singer in the world, but I can definitely be the lead in a Broadway show, which I really want to be the lead in Kinky Boots. It just came out. I want to be Lola so fucking bad. But anyway. Can you really sing that well? But I can sing really good. I'm not Mariah Carey or Craig David or, you know, Brian McKnight, but I can sing. I can dance really well as a professional dancer. You know, so I do a lot of things professionally.

really, really well. But the secret is if I don't do it well, you're not going to see me doing it. So it just, I mean, there are things that I'm not really great at, you know? Like what? Name me one thing that you've tried at, tried and that you aren't great at. Writing a book was really tough for me because I'm not a good writer. I'm a good, I express really well in my voice. So like, even when I write posts, you know, chip,

look at my post. Chip is my everything in my business, I should say. But Chip will look at my post and be like, yeah, you made some errors. Like grammatical errors and like just run on sentences. There's sometimes grammatical or, you know, but I'm very, I don't think I'm ADHD because I know my friend Shaleen Johnson talks about that all the time. But I'm definitely, I'm just, I'm not good at organizing my life necessarily. That's why I have really good people around me. Yeah. Um,

Um, and that's a, that's a true statement for a lot of people who are extraordinary at a high level at certain things. So that's not that, that's not that unique, right? It's not that abnormal. You should say, but you know, in therapy, cause I'm going to therapy now and my therapist, you know, he calls it a high achiever.

Because I was just like, you know, one time I was telling him, to your point about the question of like, you're good at a lot of things. I have this thing in my head where if I'm not doing anything, I think I'm lazy. And he said a lot of high achievers have that mindset. And so...

Yeah, so I mean, you know, there's a lot going on in his brain. Most of what comes out now is the messiness and always the real. But before it was just it was really tough. You know, I wasn't at this level of like confidence and belief in myself always, you know, now being 44 is just a different story. When did it start? Like what was like? So walk me through this. Right. So how did you even become the Shanti that we know from Insanity and from all the mega programs like that?

Were you naturally very, very talented? Even talking to a camera, people don't even know how difficult that is to be on cue and to be doing that and to be engaging while also doing the moves. Did you audition for it? What was the evolution? First of all, can I just tell you, I love you. I know we just met, but it's so great talking to you. It's amazing.

That is so nice. I feel the same way towards you. I really do. It's so true. It's so true. Like, I just, ugh. Like, you're wonderful. You're wonderful, too. Thank you. Oh, did you love that? Like my grandfather used to say, we're fearfully and wonderfully made. I just wish most people would, like, actually believe that they're wonderful. But that's a whole other story. That's a whole other podcast, actually. I do like the fact that you asked me, like, how did you become Shanti from what people already knew? Because most people ask the question, like, how did it happen?

Yeah. But I love how you asked like the evolution because we know what we see on TV. Right. And when you see actors and we see people that are, you know, on TV or, you know, somewhat famous, if you have. No, but you are in the fitness space. Like there's not, there's like very few names that are household names. Right. Very few. You could be a really successful fitness person, but like,

there's like a handful and you are one of those people, like probably my, maybe not my mom. Cause she's 80, but most other people, if you say Sean T people automatically, Oh yeah. Insanity beach body. Oh yeah. That guy, hip hop abs. Like you've been like kind of part of the DNA and the fitness space for so many years that it's,

People at some level will know who you are. It's funny you say so many years because somebody said to me the other day, they were like, yeah, I've been doing your tapes since 2001. And I'm like, no, you haven't because I was still in college. But to answer your question, which is a really good question, I'll tell you a really interesting story. So I used to teach at Equinox in West Hollywood when I first moved to Los Angeles.

Was that your... Really? So, yeah. I used to teach there and people used to wait like an hour for my class and it was always packed, especially my Saturday class. And it was a dance class. I taught 10 classes a week or 12 and there were all kinds of fitness classes from BOSU to BOSU Step to, you know, boot camp, everything. But my...

"Most popular class is my hip hop dance class." And so people would wait. And so there was a producer that worked at Beachbody that came to my class, two of them would, like, she would always look from outside the window of my class when they came in. Anyway, she got in touch with a trainer who then reached out to me and said, "Hey, this woman wants to meet you. Her name is Lara Ross." She's one of my great friends to this day.

But they had me come in and audition. And I remember the director, Andrea Amandos, who I love to death, she said, now, I just want to let you know, you have to be yourself when the camera comes on. And she used her hand. She was like, so this is the camera. And you have to try not to act like anything else. And in my head, I'm like, this bitch know who the fuck

And she and my relationship are very that like, you know, I heard she's very tough. Actually, she's super tough, but I'm literally her face. Yeah. Well, of course you are. I know that sounds really, no, but I am perfect. And she's like, she's just wonderful. But, um, so, um,

I just remember I was like, okay. And in my head, I'm like, I've literally taught on every continent almost in different languages. Like, you know, this isn't my first rodeo. I'm saying that in my head. Yeah. And literally that day I taught about like maybe 15 minutes like for them. And I walked out of Beachbody with my contract that day. Like there was no like weight.

There was no like, are you serious? They gave it to you on the spot. They walked me to the lawyer's office. What did you do in that audition? Um, so funny story is I call all my dancer friends to my house, to my house. So I was renting a room out of a really good friend of mine's house.

And so I called them over. It was like six of them. And I was like, hey, meet me at my garage at like nine o'clock. And they all came to the garage and I pulled the sliding glass mirrors from my closet in my bedroom and took them downstairs and I put them in the garage. And I made up a routine of like what we were going to do at this audition. And I walked in there and that's what I did. I just taught a dance and they were just really impressed with my cueing.

They were just like, wow, like you cue really well. Like for, like if I'm doing a move that goes boom, boom, bop, I go go up, down, out, take it down, flip around, boom, boom. Cause like my thing is I want people to know what I'm doing before I do it. But that also,

you know, I'm also, also put my personality into it. So exactly. It was exactly what I guess Beachbody needed at the time. So, well, you had two things, a group X, like teaching an actual class day in, day out that many gave you the, it gave you the skillset. So you, that's, you knew what you were doing because queuing is super difficult. People don't realize that. And because of the choreography stuff, like you're ready, like you were ready, uh,

a professional by the time you got to that place. Yeah, I mean, I was a professional dancer. Yeah, like... And, you know... But the cueing, the choreography, like being on beat is important. Oh, yeah, the choreography. And I had taught... I had taught... You know how they say it takes 10,000 hours to be... I had taught probably...

I mean, I started teaching when I was 20, almost 21. And I taught like, I remember teaching 25, 30 classes a week just in college. So by the time I left college and then like traveled around the world, I mean, I had, I've been, I just was all over the place, you know? Were you like a fit? Okay. So at that time, it's obviously different when it is now with fitness influencers and all that. But were you considered a fitness, like, because you had that Equinox class and

Were you like a Nike trainer and all those other kind of fitness influence-y things before social media at that point? Yeah, it's so funny when people come up to me, they're like, oh my God, you're like a social media influencer. And I'm like, oh my gosh, no, I'm not. Yeah, exactly. I'm not. But yeah, like fitness back then was very different. And I'm sure, you know, there were all the conventions and like people don't even know names like Calvin Wiley, Patrick Godot, Tony Stone, Angie Bunche.

Patricia Moreno, rest in peace. You know, there's so many of these incredible people that I learned under that taught QA, that was able to build a class. Every class was an experience. And so, yeah.

From that, then I had to work my way up to be able to teach at one of these conventions. And so I taught at those conventions for a while. And one day I would teach and I would still take like six classes a day. And one day I was in the back row of a class. I was just like, because I like to support people. And I always was like, I'm going to soak up anything that they do. Totally. And I was in the back of the class and there was a guy from Turkey that was just like, hey, you want to come to Turkey and help me open up a gym and like create...

you know, this like fitness program and personal training also. So he did all this stuff and it was just like, I went to Istanbul and I, you know, I was like, where am I? I don't speak this language, but the guys are hot and I'm here for it.

That is awesome. You know what was on my mind in my 20s. 100%. No shade. No, it's amazing. So then who did you come up with? Was your first program Hip Hop Abs, though? Yes, my first program was Hip Hop Abs. Did you do it or did they give it to you? How does it work? Like, what's the... Like, give me the skinny, you know, excuse the pun, on, like, what happens inside. So you get the job, then what happens? Yeah, so...

Get the job. And it literally is, we go into a boardroom with the producers, with Carl Dykla, who's the CEO. And then we just kind of ideate on what it is that we want to do. At least that's how every experience of mine has been. So they knew that

They had just come out with... P90X was before Insanity. Yeah. And then the most amazing, Chalene Johnson, had just come out with Turbo Jam. I remember that, too. Right. So she had come out with Turbo Jam. And so, really, so what happened was they were just like, we want...

Turbo Jam did so good. It was like rhythmic. It was kind of like, I don't want to say it's like Taibo, but it was like the rhythmic boxing for people who don't really understand it. And then so they wanted something that was like, they felt like movement was really good. So, and I was really popular for dance. Right. That's what you're known for. Yeah. But the way we came up with Hip Hop Abs was, I'm actually going to shout out these people, these two women, their names are Gillian and T. They had Yoga Booty Ballet. I don't know if you remember that.

Of course they do. Yes. But they had one workout in yoga booty ballet called hip hop abs. Um, it was just like one little, it was just like where we would do like buns and butt or whatever, buns and thighs. It was hip hop abs. But anyway, the way we came up with hip hop abs was actually really cool. Cause I was a hip hop dancer. And one day we were just ideating on choreography in this room. And so I took off my shirt and,

And they were like, oh my gosh, you have like really great abs. And I was like, thank you. So I was like, I don't know who said it, but they were like, oh my gosh, like what if we focus like did an ab program? And so I breathed in and I made my belly really big. And I was like, you know, all you got to do is tilt, tuck and tighten. And it went from my abs. And they were like...

And because they were like, what do you do for abs? And I was like, I don't do abs. Like at the time I did not get down on the floor. I literally danced. And they were like, well, show us how you move. I was like, well, in hip hop, you know, you got to stay low. You got to keep your core tight, you know, all this stuff. And so that's how we came up with hip hop abs. It went from like hip hop abs to like hip hop abs.

It was like all these things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're like, okay, we have to use this name because Hip Hop Abs is great. So then that's how we came up with Hip Hop Abs. And was everyone shocked at the popularity of the, like how much, it became like massive. Yeah, it was a phenomenon at the time. It was huge. I think what was really great about it, it was, you know, it was just like all the ingredients of a band.

great fitness program came into one. And this is going to sound really funny, but you have dance, you have low impact, and you have a gay black man. I know that sounds really, really crazy. And I can say it because I'm black. But like, you know, I believe people are probably going to roll their eyes at this, but I just believe that gay black men in fitness is like, is not intimidating. Cause some people can be intimidated by really

you know, super ripped other women. For sure. Or like beefy guys kind of like I am now. You're super beefy now. But you wore it back then. I wasn't back then. Who's the kid out there? Is that your son? That's my kid. Oh my God, he's so cute. Thank you. That's Dylan. He's probably like, well, he's probably, he's used to this. Oh my God, he has great hair. Sorry.

Thank you. I love that. Yeah. He's, he's delicious. Um, so I don't know what I was looking at him, but so what was he saying about your hip hop? You were telling me not Dylan. No, I was going to say something about the hip hop. Oh yeah. People. And I don't know if this is like politically incorrect also, but the gay, uh, teachers always like who are at the clubs are always the most popular. Like women flock to these classes. And if you're like a pretty girl or like it's,

It could be intimidating. They like the personality that comes with it. I think that if I can just even take sexuality out of it for a second, I think what happens is gay people in general, we live a life of being suppressed for mostly a quarter or more of our lives. I didn't come out until I was 21. Most people don't come out until they're 18. So you have these people who are suppressed for the youngest years of their lives.

And so now you take somebody who actually loves fitness, who loves to dance, who wants to be expressive, and you put them in front of a room and it's not intimidating and people are having a good ass time. Totally. People do not care about, I don't want to say they don't care about fitness. Yes, people want to lose weight. They want to, but people, when people find,

find a way to stay motivated. They find a way to stay motivated by having fun and not being overwhelmed or intimidated. And that's why people don't, that's why the people who don't go to the gym don't go to the gym. Well, I'm not fit enough yet to go to the gym. I'm too big. For a lot of women, it's, you know, I need to lose weight. For a lot of men, it's just like,

Well, I'm going to be intimidated by the guys with muscles. It's insecurity. You don't feel confident in that way. So you have, you know, you have a gay black man or a chip because chip is a really good gay teacher. Oh, you are too? He's not a gay teacher, but he's a fitness instructor. Are you? Where do you teach? Equinox too? He used to.

I'm on a little pause right now. You're on a little pause right now with the schedule being here. I mean, he was teaching even while working with us for Transform 20 when it had a certification program. But he doesn't know. He's my favorite instructor. But anyway, so... Not anyway. So...

Just like when you have like a gay guy teaching, it's just not intimidating, especially for like being in public, you're going into a room. And I really believe like no one talks about that, but I'm like, it's very, very, very true. If you go to fitness conventions, like...

The gay guys are like, they have like these really popular, super fun classes. They also have a cult following. Yeah. They have a cult following because they make it fun. I think at the end of the day, no matter what, people want to feel inspired and they want to have fun. They don't want to feel like it's like a chore to do it. But you said something that was interesting. So when you were 21, you came out, but...

So how old were you when you did Insanity? What was... I was... I was 2009. So I was 31. I was...

Born in 1978. Was that 31? Almost 31. I was 30. So you were, okay. So I remember now, I don't know why. I remember when, when people said to me, oh, Sean T came out, but that was like a ready, this was like back when like, we were like, this was like in 2005. Were you keeping it a secret? It was 2012. Yeah.

Do you know what I'm talking about? I do. And it's really funny because I was never in, in public. That's the thing. I'm like, have you done hip hop abs? I'm literally like, I don't got no hair. You know, I'm like, I'm like,

I was never in, in my public, in my professional life. I was never in the club. I came out at 21 to everybody. So why did people think that? I'll tell you why. Okay. So one, because you have hip hop abs where I'm like cutting up and rocking body. They were my first two programs where they were dance programs. You know, I'm at the motherfucking club. You know, I'm having a good ass time. But then Insanity comes out and it is insane.

There's no time in a program where it wasn't live at the time. Like if it was, if Insanity was a live class, I would have been acting crazy because I'm like, cool. But you know, it's a package program where people have to come and have to redo the workouts. So I don't tell jokes. I'm just like, boom, like we're going to hit it and go. Right.

And I took on... I created insanity because I wanted people to feel how I felt at the end of a track practice, which is terrible. And so I feel good at the end, but it's terrible. And I'm like, this is...

Like, I need people to feel this way. So they saw Shaunti from Insanity, Shaunti from T25, Asylum, like these programs that are... Hardcore. Hardcore. So then when my husband and I get married and my assistant at the time tweets, oh my gosh, she put something like, I'm so happy to celebrate this love. Everyone, like the blogs went crazy. And I'm like...

Oh, right. So everyone just assumed that you were coming out, but you were, but it was just because it just never gave the opportunity to tell people. Thanks girl. You know, I was fine. Right. Cause I totally remember that. And I'm like, what I, cause I wasn't like keeping tabs completely, but I do remember that, that like in the atmosphere of like a beach body that you came out. Yeah. But it was like, just. But can we talk about that for a second? Like, why do people even have to come out?

I know. I mean, listen, that's a whole other thing. Like, I don't remember. I remember thinking like I wasn't even thinking if he was in or out or where you were, you know, I'm like, oh, I like his workouts. You know, I wasn't paying attention to that. But I guess because the conversation wasn't what it was today. Like back then, people were much more. Well, people are people are afraid of cancel culture today for different reasons. Right. But back then, the cancel culture was much more. There's a stigma, I guess, right?

for whatever reason back then about that or people thought there would be. Yeah. And I literally never gave a fuck. I know. I can tell knowing you now like that would, I can't even imagine people thinking that. Yeah. It's so funny. Even just today before coming here, I was looking at Twitter and what's his name? Bad Bunny, Big Bunny? Yeah.

Bad Bunny. Bad Bunny last night. Big Bunny. I didn't even know who this guy was. I really didn't. And he's like millions and millions and millions of followers. Oh no, he's massive. I know. Yeah, massive. But he apparently, well not apparently, there's a video last night on MTV Music Awards. You know, he kissed a guy on stage and the world went in an uproar like,

Oh my gosh. Still? Some people are like, I never listened to his music again. I'm like, really? He ain't kiss you. Yeah. Nor does him kissing you have anything to do with you. You enjoyed his music. You enjoyed the beat. You enjoyed the lyrics. But just because he wants to kiss a guy, but if it was a girl kissing a girl, you would be like, oh my gosh, that's hot. I'm like, y'all are so...

Like, get over it. I'm surprised that would even be in a tweet or anything now because I feel like it's kind of part of the culture now. And like, it's not even like something to even like talk about. I actually hope he did it and he's not bi or anything. I hope he actually, I mean, I don't care if he's straight or gay or whatever, but part of me hopes that he was just like,

No, I just wanted to kiss this dude because I felt like kissing a dude. Isn't that called fluid though? Isn't that the word for it? Like fluid? I mean, now I'm going to sound like an old fuck, but like what's like, you know, fluid? I think it's fluid. I mean, there are so many titles for sexuality. It is a little bit overwhelming. It is. Even as a gay man, like I don't know the difference between queer and

And gay or non-binary. I just honestly don't know. And the only reason I don't know is not because I don't want to be educated. It's just because if I meet you, I literally...

care about you, but I don't care where your title is. I'm like, I meet people all the time. Like I, like I love when I meet now that I know and I'm educated when I meet a trans person or a trans person that's like transitioning. Like now I know and I can put to it, but it is, it's to me, it's exciting and refreshing and fun because you get to see these people, um,

living and going after living their true and authentic lives. So for me, I'm like, I do not even care. Like I'm the same way. I don't care because also I'm attracted to people who are real and authentic. Right. So if people are doing them and doing whatever they want, that just makes me more attracted to them versus someone like staying in the, like,

When I say in the closet, I mean like inside themselves and acting out some other person that's not even true to who they are. Unfortunately, though, this happens because... And I was talking about this on social media the other day. But this happens because people have planted, unknowingly planted damaged seeds, right? It's most of the reasons why people are afraid to be themselves is because of their childhood. Let's just take... Your parents said you had to be a lawyer. That's 100% what... Or you have to be a doctor or you have to go to school. I know plenty of people who are...

who make...

$100,000 a year or more that didn't even go to college, right? Or, you know, or because of your religion, like people's religion. So they're afraid to live their lives because they're afraid of what the Bible says or what Jesus says. And listen, I love if people are religion. I love if people are religious. I love if they're spiritual. I'm like, follow it however you want to do it. But, and if that's your authenticity, then great. But,

I just, I think other people are afraid to be themselves because they are living up to the expectations of what these people follow and what these people believe. Of somebody else. Right. And I'm like, why do we have to do that? I think it happens. I think because people are fearful of,

of the criticism and losing those connections. So then they live a life that's really pure misery, right? Because that's what happens. And I think you're 100% right. I think people are most people live for other people who basically don't even give a shit. Like at the end of the day, most of those people that you care so much about what they think of you, they're too busy thinking about themselves. They're not even looking and caring about you. Let me ask you a question.

I know you're the interviewer. No, I want you to ask away. As much as we are, we had a good time on my podcast. We're having a good time now. Obviously, there's lots of excitement of like seeing each other again and when I'm going to show up. When you went to bed last night,

Or let's say three nights ago, you weren't thinking about me. No, I forgot about you. Right. Right. Even though I really like you. Right. Yeah. But if I text you or if we come across each other's posts or if we become really good friends, then yeah, I'll think about you a little bit more. Right. Right. The reason why I say that is because

People who hate on you, they're not thinking about you later. They literally are spitting out the gossip to their friend. They're posting on social media to make you feel bad, to do it for likes, to get the clout. But they are going to go. They're going to have their drinks. They're going to be having their party. They're going to go to their church. They're going to be praising him for their own personal upliftment and

they don't give a shit about you and that's why you shouldn't give a shit about anybody else and I know there's like a lot there's like family there there's like oh my gosh my career there's things that you may be afraid of but at the end of the day you're giving more energy to this than that person could ever give to you oh 100% I could not agree with you more the only so

I think once, I think on your podcast, you're asking me like mentors and all these things. I don't even really believe in having true mentors because I think everybody is, is, um,

thinking, talking, giving advice based on the myopic view of what they've experienced. And so it's not indicative of what your life experience is. So if someone is hating on you for your, for the example that you use, why would you even give a shit? Because they, they, they're not even not, not even, you're not even a part of that. They're not even a part of their, their daily thought. But I do think there's a, the real problem becomes when your family, right? Cause people are not being,

because their family has a lot of pressure that put like put a lot of pressure on them and at the end of the day I think that people have in their heads that what the outcome is like they they get so scared and they build up the the fear so much in their brain it's never going to become that it's reality is never as bad as you think it is in your head right exactly that's the bottom line I'm

It's never that bad. And let's flip the script for a little bit. Like, I am free. Like, we are all, every single one of us in some way are living in our own tunnel. Not that we have tunnel vision, but like in my tunnel, there's colors, there's life, there's sex, there's spirituality, there's gayness. Like, I have this tunnel and I accept everyone for who they are and I don't care. And people still don't like me because of that.

Like you can not like me and I can love you because of everything that you're doing because it makes you happy. And people still aren't going to like me. So at the end of the day, you have to be you. And, you know, my obsession with our solar system and universe, like my absolute obsession with that has made me give even –

Like negative fucks. You know how people say I give zero fucks? Yes, exactly. Now that I know how vast this universe is and how we... How much the universe itself and matter, dark matter, is expanding, I'm like... I hate to say it like this, but we ain't shit. Like... Right. We... Like...

It's insane how we sometimes are going through our lives being so affected by what everyone else says about us when even our planet is like...

Not even a drop in a bucket. A minute thing. Yeah. So do you believe that? I had this conversation that you believe in the, in vibration and how we can only see what we can see because we're living on a certain vibration. Did you do? And that like, there's a whole other alternate universe depending on,

where your vibration is. Did you get into this with the, with the whole, I know you're obsessed with all the solar systems. Yeah. I haven't gotten into that. I've gotten into, I haven't gotten into that, but I'm seeing a lot talking about, I don't know what it's called. It's like,

Yeah, like there's two different universes in a way. There's two different like ways. They call it the fourth. I think it's called the fourth. Fourth dimension or something like that. Fourth dimension. I've heard something about it. Not a lot. I don't get it. I don't understand it though. No, I don't understand it. But I'm here for it. If someone wants to explain it to me, I'm totally open to listen. But I'm also an empath in a lot of ways. And a lot of people think we're crazy. Like I read energy like it's going out of style. Like people ask me why I'm really good at something. It's just because when I walk in a room, I know...

the average energy of what these people need. Because I focus on the need, not the energy that they're giving me necessarily. But like, even like, can you imagine if there are five people in this room right now while we're filming? If any one of us, like if you had a disagreement with anyone in here 10 minutes ago, even if you rectified the situation, that energy is lingering in this room. And you can feel it. I would 100% know.

100%. And you could be acting like everything's fine. Right. 100%. And how would you modify your behavior or you just automatically modify that behavior? So what I do, I do it a lot at restaurants. So if a server is having a bad day, instead of reacting to that server having a bad day, I'm going to react to the point where I want to give them a 30% tip. So like we, my husband and I, like he'll look at me, he's like,

you know, what do you think? And I'm like, he or she, they ain't having it today. And I'm like, watch this because I'm like, I get it. And they start out really like fast, abrupt, you know, a little bit rude, wanting to rush out. Maybe they're at the end of their shift. And then next thing, you know, they're like, oh my gosh, can you guys get my table the next time you come here?

Because I just don't... Well, I believe... And I do that in fitness. Like if someone's afraid or they don't think they can get through it, my class and my classes and my live classes are about... I'm literally going to walk you through this so that you feel so freaking good at the end of it. Because...

that is my gift. Like, that's what I want to do. It is your gift. So then get back to that from the first question. So like before you were Shanti got this job at the, I didn't even answer the first question. I know, I know, right. Exactly. Well, it's good though. Okay. So before that, so you, I know you're teaching at Equinox and you were doing the choreography, like where, like, give me an, how did you evolve into this? You were, you said you weren't always so confident. You weren't always so this, um,

So what were you and then how did you kind of create the person or the persona that

More or less that we know now. Right. Well, I just, really great question. I peel back the layers. I peel back everything that was holding me back from being who I am. Which was what? Which was a scared little boy. You know, I've spoken a lot about my sexual abuse, but from the time I was eight to the time I was 12, literally being molested and sexually abused by people.

You know, a person that is supposed to be one of my protectors in my life has does a really a great deal of damage to the psyche. You know, do you remember all that stuff? Oh, I remember every single time. I remember every time I was like, I don't know why at eight years old, I was like, I have to be very present in this moment to make it through.

Like, instead of blocking it out, I was like, I have to be very present. You actually had those thoughts while it's happening. I was like, I need to be very present. Very present. I was always afraid to tell anyone. But I was like, I just had to be very present. So there would be times where I would hide in my closet. I had a little My Buddy and a light, bright toy. And I would hide in a closet and I would like...

I didn't know why I was hiding in the closet then, but I realized that I didn't want to face what was a reality because everyone in my house was like happy. They were acting so happy and I wasn't. And the only time I could be happy is like with my light bright and my buddy. It was like my safe haven. Yeah. But to your point, so I was able to go to therapy from the time I started this program.

commercial fitness journey where I became a household name, if you will. But at 12, so wait, hold on, go back, go back. So here, yeah. I'm all over the place. No, no, I like this though. So like by 12, thankfully the abuse ended, right? Yes. And so-

The abuse ended because I was able to have an orgasm. So this person who was sexually abusing me was a true pedophile. So once I was able to, you know, have an ejaculation, for lack of a better way of saying it, I think that's the best way to say it. He stopped.

And so the weird thing that happens in the psyche at that age is like, I've given you all of me all this time. I didn't tell, like I protected you from telling. And now you want to stop because I get pleasure. This is crazy. So then I felt like, and I didn't notice until later, but I felt like that was my first heartbreak.

Really? Yeah, because I had to, in some ways, trick myself to falling in love with this person. Did you? Oh, yeah. Yeah.

And so the wild thing is like every, so he would come upstairs in the middle of the night and that would be like at 12, two o'clock in the morning. And that would be like when this would all happen. So after he stopped, every time he would come up the stairs, it's weird. Like I knew who was coming upstairs because I know my mom's steps and I know I knew his steps. But I would purposely do things to get him to notice me. And it was just like, it just kind of went away. As soon as that happened, like everything abruptly stopped. And a lot of people are like,

You know, they probably think to themselves, but you should be very happy that he no longer did that. And I'm like, you don't understand the psyche of a child at that age. You are, you feel abandoned. So they now have double abandonment. Cause I'm like, at that age, you think my mom should have known this was happening. You know, like you just think your mom should know everything. And secondly, the second person who was my stepfather, who was supposed to be my protector now also abandoned me.

So then that's when I realized that I'm living in a toxic environment. And then at 14, I moved out of my house. So between 12 and 14, what did you do? I was just miserable. And where's your stepfather now, by the way? Well, when, but he held a gun to my mom's head when I was in college. So they finally broke up and now he's dead. He's dead? Yeah, from cancer. Yeah.

And how about your... How was your relationship with your mom? My relationship with my mom was fantastic. But did it take time? Yeah, I went to a lot of therapy. There was times where, you know, I was, like, angry with her. But, like, almost...

It's weird because it was like there's anger with her, but for no reason. But also, so there was a stint in time where I used to talk to my mom every day. We were like best friends. It was like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. But then when I started going to therapy and I started being able to release these things and like things that, you know, while I was very present, there were still things that needed to be uncovered. Right. Yeah. There was a point in time where I had to keep my distance for sure.

What would she say? Like, how did she not know? Or did she know and just suppress it? She did not know. How? You're asking the same question that 8, 9, 10, 11, 12-year-old Shawnee, that's what they called me, would ask. Here's the thing. So he would come upstairs. He would go to the bathroom, you know, close the door and say,

Like, they... So his whole... I don't want to say schedule, but the process for him was I would hear him pull up in the driveway because he was alcoholic. So he'd come home drunk. He would go in the house. My mother in his bedroom was right underneath my bedroom. He would start an argument with her so that there was a reason for them to separate. Right. I'm going upstairs. He would come upstairs, go in the bathroom. He would turn on the bathroom light, close the door. So now she thinks like, oh...

He's mad. We only have one bathroom and it happened to be upstairs. He's mad. He's upstairs. He's in the bathroom when really... He was with you. Yeah. So she didn't know. And was it like once a week or like once a month? No, it was way more often than that. For four years? Yeah. And your attitude or personality didn't change where she was like suspicious of something? No.

No, no. The only times where there were lulls in it is when two of my mom's sisters and their kids came to live with us. So for me, that was amazing. I had these people to barrier me from- Buffer, yeah. Yeah, buffer. But no, because I think that we were so miserable. It was such a miserable time that there's-

But I was a kid, you know, like once I was outside, once I was with my friends, once I was at school, I think the only thing that may have given her a hint, which she never spoke about was, I mean, I was really smart. I am. I mean, I did really good in school, you know, of course, but there would be, I mean, of course I did. Like you said earlier, I mean, I'm just good at a lot. Exceptional and everything. But there would be, um,

You know, there would be times where I wouldn't get good grades and she would be like... What's going on? Yeah. And then the next marking period, I would turn around and I would get on the honor roll, you know, because I would just be like, okay, I got to do this because I don't want to get in trouble. I don't want to get... Because if we got bad grades... So I would like get straight A's or like A's and B's and then one marking period when I... It was probably at a time where I was like going through it a lot in my views. Then I would just kind of like... You know, then like there was a small stint in school where I got...

There was a small stint where I got teased. This thing doesn't stop. No, you're fine. There was a small stint where I got teased, you know, for being gay. I'll put an end to that real quick because I definitely wasn't the one. But, you know, so there was a lot going on with my internal self as well as, you know, just...

you know, navigating my way through childhood in general. Do you have a lot of friends? Like, were you very popular? Because it seems like you were an athlete, very athletic, obviously, and very smart. You're like a Ferris Bueller. You had both going on. Thanks. I, so in elementary school,

This is going to sound really crazy. I was first to be chosen in kickball, right? In like any sport in gym class or, you know, at recess. But I didn't have a lot of friends, you know? And I think partly it was because- Yeah. Like it was, I think partly it was because, you know, I was a gay kid. So there's always like, even if you're not like a feminine gay kid or like a flamboyant gay kid, you still know you're different. So you knew back then? Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. At eight years old. I knew before I was eight. How old were you when you knew, you think? This is going to sound funny, but like probably the same age you knew. Like you just know. It was just kind of in part of your, you know. You just know. Yeah. And I think that like, I think to answer that question,

And to help a lot of people understand who don't understand gay or how somebody quote unquote becomes gay, which is weird for gay people. It's like, how do we become the same way as you? It's almost like. That's a great thing that you said though, by the way, because no one's ever like positioned it like that. Like, well, same as you, like people don't think about it. Like I knew at the same time you knew. Right. But here's to like, to solidify that if you and I,

We're the same age and we are, let's say we're six years old. Our parents or our, or older people are saying like, oh my gosh, Jen, like that boy is really cute. Isn't he? That doesn't make you feel uncomfortable. You're like, yeah, he is cute. If they're like, Sean, isn't that little girl cute? I'm like, no bitch. I want the boy that Jen has. Like what the fuck you talking about? You know what I mean? So like...

Because I'm like, he cute as fuck. Yeah. So, like... Are you saying... You're not saying it, but you're stinking it for sure. Yeah. So, like... So, at that point, we as gay children become very uncomfortable. You know, because now, like, you're praising my female friend for liking this little boy. Or they even do that shit when kids are, like, one. They're like... I hear parents say, like, oh, yeah, when he gets around the girls, like, he get... I'm like, he's one. Yeah.

What the fuck are you talking about? It's so true. So then, you know, so now you're six and you think the little boy sitting next to you is cute. But when you go home, not my mom, my mom's not doing this, but this is just an example. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Your mom is like, yeah, he has this little girlfriend that comes over and, you know, they, you know, it's his little girlfriend. Yeah, yeah. I'm like, no, he's hanging out with the girl because he want to be with the girls. Like, you know, like that. Totally. That's so true. So like people...

So I always am like, you know, watch what you say and how you say things around children. Like I will talk about one of my kids, you know. So I have two sons. They're the same age, born at the same time. They're twins. Yeah. One of them, his wall is full of female superheroes. The other one's wall is full of male superheroes. One of their...

The one who has the female superheroes, his closet of costumes has 85% female costumes. The other one has all male costumes, right? We've never told Sander, no, if he wants to be, he designed his own She-Hulk outfit. He got the green wig. I'm like, word, bitch. I'm like, I want to dress up too. You

You know, and Silas is like, no, like I want to be Captain America. But like the year before, Silas wanted to be a witch with a dress. Right. You know, and Sander wanted to be a skeleton. And so I say all that to say like, we have never been like, no, you can't wear that. And we've never called things the girl outfit or the boy outfit. The only time it's ever happened is when he said, I want to create a...

Emma Frost costume. He's like, can we go on Amazon? Emma Frost. I think she's like somebody. I don't know. Okay, okay. Parents are probably mad. Y'all probably know who Emma Frost is. I kind of do, but I don't. I kind of don't either. It was the first time he got this really dope outfit. He picked it off Amazon. It's like,

a pants outfit with a suit jacket. But it was all like glittery and like, you know, rhinestones or whatever. And it was the first time he said, because I'm like, that's not the dress she's wearing. Like, I'm thinking he's going to be lit, you know? And he's like, no, that's the girl one. And so I was able to, I actually asked him, I was like, so why do you like...

I didn't say like, why do you like the female costume? I'm like, why do you like that costume? He's like, Papa, because like, there's so much better than those costumes. They're like, they have colors. Like he is like, he's like obsessed with the costume itself. So even a male superhero costumes he has, I look at them and I'm like, oh, so Chip's boyfriend one day wants to get a sewing machine and help Sander make like whatever costume he wants. The reason why I tell that story is. Yeah, no, I like that.

Because I know how it feels. I don't know if he's gay. I don't care. It's not about that. It's even about the fact of just them to be able to be expressive because he might like the female costumes because I asked him, he's like, I want to design superhero costumes for

When I get older, it could just be his design mind. And if I were to say, well, you can't wear that because that's a girl's costume or that's a girl's costume, Sandra, are you sure you want to wear that? Right. Not only would it hinder...

whatever he is, but it's going to hinder his creativity. So I'm like, you know, the words that you speak matter. And at that age, so impressed, like so impressionable that then they're going to feel that they're doing something wrong. And then they're going to just like suppress anything that's real. Exactly. So you're, that's amazing that you, yeah. I'm like,

You know, even our kids, like, I don't say things to them, like, because I said so. Like, if they're like, why can't I do that? I don't say because I said so. I give them a detailed...

A detailed response as to why they can't do something. You're going to hurt yourself because this thing is made of this material that could hurt you. Right. Because I want them to continue to ask me questions because that's how they know. I purposely use big words with them. And they always like, Papa, what does that word mean? I'm like, yes, I said a word that they don't know. You know what I'm saying? Totally. So back to all of that. You know, so like it was just like it was a really rough.

childhood for me and my mindset. But yeah, so. No, that's, it's like, I love how you end it with, yeah, so that was really rough. That's like, that shaped probably like the entire, well, not probably, your entire trajectory of your life. Like you could have gone to like one of two ways, right? You could have become a victim and your life could have went a whole different, like sliding doors, could have taken a whole different, you know, route. And then you chose to do this like,

positivity, belief in yourself and living like such a phenomenal life now. Yeah. Statistics say and show that I should be in jail. I mean, especially the amount of time that that was happening. It wasn't like, it's never good, but like you're saying it was like consistent for four years in your, in like times when like you can remember shit, not like when you're three. Yeah. And you know, it's really interesting. I've had many, excuse me,

What was that? Are you okay? Do you want some water? No, no, no. It's just, I don't know why, but I'm fine. I have some, but it's really interesting that men, heterosexual men have come up to me and dead secretism. Like they got super close to me and they just are like, like on the street. They're like, you know, I saw this post you put on Tik TOK, Tik TOK. And that's happened to me before. And I didn't remember until you put that post up.

And so, you know, I'm immediately like, you know, sorry to happen to you too. What are you going to do about it? Like I actually had someone who helps me out a lot actually say that to me. And it just like completely changed the trajectory of their life because now they know a lot of why they're

They were the way they were. But a lot of people, like I said earlier, they plant those seeds that they don't even know that they're planting and it comes out in other ways in their life. So how did I become Shaunti from Shaunti? Yeah. Like how did that allow you, especially because you said you have double abandonment. That's double abandonment. Before you even tell me that, you said something also that's very interesting that

it became like, like you became like in love with this guy. What was the, what do you remember in your, do you remember when that transition happened? When he went from like being repulsed by him to then like what, like waiting for him to come see you? Yeah. When he stopped. Like that was like, but like when he stopped, but not before that. Not before, before I was, before I was just taking one for the team. Cause I always had this fear that if I told him,

My mom, he would end up killing my mom, my brother and myself. Like I really thought. Did he ever tell you that though or no? He never like threatened anybody. No, but he was just, and he was an alcoholic and he was like really mean, you know? And one of my first memories of him, cause he's not my biological father. One of my first memories of him is him fighting a guy on a porch outside, getting bloody, coming in, cleaning himself off, going back out and fighting this guy. And I'm sitting on the couch and,

Looking at this. So from time of seeing that when I was like, what, three years old? From the time seeing that from three years old to...

Then that happened to me. This guy is like a superhero. Right. You know what I mean? So there's like so much fear involved. So there's fear. And so like, you know, I don't know if my mother or my brother, I should probably let them listen to this and then we'll have a conversation about it. But I don't know if they understood or understand how much me not telling was to protect them. Right. Not that they need to do anything about it. But I know for a fact that my brother was

probably still is very much affected because he's my older brother. And, you know, he always had that older brother, like protect my younger brother. And he's in the next room and doesn't know that's happening. So nothing ever happened to him?

No, no. Only you. See, people have to understand that molesters, sexual abusers, when it comes to children, they are somewhat, and I hate to put this in the empath community, when a predator is going after a child. Right. They, a lot of times, know what child to pick. So if you look at me and my brother, if you compare us two in this kind of way, my brother was rambunctious, loud, almost like bad, but not bad.

Like he was just wild and just blurted stuff out. Like, you know, he would come downstairs and be like, you know, he touched me last night. You know what I mean? Where somebody like me, I was more timid. I was more like, oh my gosh, like, I don't know if I should, like I should say that. Yeah. And they know, they know that kind of child. And that's why they,

I try not to overdo it, but I say to my kids all the time, I'm like, you know, even with their nannies, I'm like, are you happy? Were they nice to you today? You know, like a couple of years ago or a year and a half ago, we had to put cream on one of my kids' bottoms. And, you know, he would wince when it happened. And we right away asked him like, it's okay. Did someone touch you there that made you uncomfortable? He's like, no. He's like, it's just weird. You know, it tickles. So I'm like, okay. So, yeah.

But we didn't have those kind of conversations. Like no one was, no one, like you said, no one knew, but no one checked in either. No one checked in. That's the thing, right? So that's what's amazing to me, especially now. It's always with people that are literally closest to you. Like the guy lived with you for crying out loud. Like, so then how did you take that time and then trend, like not let it take you down a bad path and take you to this, or did you have a bad phase? Yeah, it took me down a bad path

Internally. But thank God for... Did you get into fitness? Then that's what happened. Thank God for sports and fitness and dance. And I mean, they... Like fitness completely changed my life because...

Actually, at one point I was on Zoloft, which is a depression medication. At what age? 12? Like when this was happening? No, this is after. Like after I came out. Yeah. Oh, right. 21. Yeah. Why? After you came out, you went on it? Well, I was in a real... Well, once I came out,

It was almost like it was the first layer to be peeled back. You know, like I'm suppressing all this stuff. The fact that I'm gay, the fact that I was molested and anything else, you know. And now I'm like, oh, I came out. Well, that feels really good. And I also the night I came out, told my mom about my molestation. So that feels really good. So now everything is it's like a volcano is erupting. Right. So I'm in a relationship now.

I get my first gay relationship with a person that's very similar to my abuser who was alcoholic. Really? So then I'm there. So then I'm like peeling more stuff back. And so what happened is I just was, I thought I was depressed when really I was in a bad relationship because I would go to fitness. I would go teach class. I'm like, there's no way I can feel this amazing right now. And then when I get home, I'm miserable.

Right. So then once that relationship ended and, you know, went on to fitness, then I eventually went to therapy and that completely changed my life. Wow. So you only started the therapy like after you came out. I started therapy because I had a hard time accepting love from my now husband. Wow.

Okay, so how long have you been with your husband, Scott? 12 years. 12 years. Okay, there's a big gap, though. So between 12 and 21, you had this one boy, only this one guy. Well, the boyfriend I didn't have until at the end of college. I didn't have a boyfriend in high school. I was just fast. You were just... I was fast with the girls and the boys. Look, you know, some gay guys have never been with a female. Yeah, you were? Other... Oh, yeah.

Other guys are like, I want to make sure this is right. And you're able to do it and everything? Well, I mean, when I'm edit out whatever you need to edit out. In my opinion, when your hormones are raging as a teenager, anything that touches you anywhere. It doesn't matter who it is. It doesn't matter until you experience. The other stuff. The other stuff. Then you're like, oh shit. The emotion behind that is different. Really? I mean, maybe you know what I'm talking about. I don't know.

Poor girl. I don't know what you are, but I know you have the same parts as me, so you get it. I love you. I love you. Oh my God, you're so great. I love it. So then basically then you were just all over the place with the women and not... Well, I was a mess. I was in the back of the supermarket at night in the Jeep. Like I was doing the absolute most. It didn't matter. It didn't matter. So then you went to therapy and that's when you...

Got more in touch with whatever. Yeah, therapy completely changed my life. But you had... It feels like you had... It feels like you were still, in your teens, confident. You were teaching these classes. You were playing sports. Oh, so there's a part of the story... It didn't deter you. There's a part of the story that I didn't say. So when I was 14, I moved out of my house. I actually found a way to move in with my grandparents. How? I just was like...

And it was hard. I feel bad now, even though this is not going to sound bad to you. But I remember my grandmother pulling up to my house one day. She always drive by. She would never come inside. I'm like, girl, I wouldn't come inside either. But she would pull up. And it was a summer before my freshman year in high school. And I was like, my mom, do you mind if I come live with you and pop up? You know, you guys are getting older. You need help around the house. And.

I don't think, I think she knew that's why I didn't. I think she knew that was a lie. Oh, yes. She probably was just like, because I was her favorite. But I think she was just kind of like, oh my gosh, like, you know. And so my grandfather's a pastor. They were like, she was the first lady of the church. So the night I moved into their house, the first night I went to sleep, I went to bed and

And before I turned on my lights, I just started crying. Like so loud, so hard. Like I felt like I escaped. Wow. And then they ran into my room and, you know, they just prayed over me. You know, that's why I love people who are religious. I'm not religious like that anymore, but I could, you know, quote the Bible like the rest, but I'm very spiritual, you know? And so he...

my grandfather just like prayed over me. And it was literally like, people say, you know, I was born again because they accepted Jesus Christ as their personal savior. For me, that was my born again phase. And from there, like I completely changed. And I was at 14 years old. So then I started to build confidence. I think there's really great things about religion. Like I would be in church three to four times a week. And while I don't believe in everything the Bible says,

I do believe that when two and three people are gathered together, like really great things can happen. I believe that prayer is like meditation, not necessarily like this man answering your prayers. I feel like, you know,

You're attracting that by speaking that and what you put out in the universe, not like the secret, but the energy you put out. Like if I came in here and I was boring or if I was giving you bad vibes, I'm not going to get great vibes from you. We vibe because we're giving each other positive. So true. Yes. Going through that in high school and, and,

Having that foundation of just support completely changed my life to the point where I went from like being a kid in elementary school that was like, I wasn't like a reclusive kid, but I was definitely not.

you know, out there wanting to be in the forefront, to being in high school, to being like the president of my class, to being the captain of like the... You were all these things? I was all these things, y'all. I was, you know. Of course you were. So you were the captain of the what? I was the captain of the track team. I was the president of the E-Race Club, which is end racism and sexism everywhere. I was the captain of the drill team team. I was vice president of my class. And then we get these senior superlatives, you know, it's like...

People vote for like most popular, most school spirited class leader. So I got I won all three of those most popular class.

most school spirited and class leader. And my, one of our teachers was like, Sean, choose class leader. She was like, you're going to be so, they're going to look back in your yearbook and you'll be really happy about choosing leader. I'm like, no, I want to be the most popular. I'm choosing most popular. And then like a couple of years ago, I was looking at this like yearbook website and I saw my yearbook. I'm like, fuck. Like she was right. I'm like, who gives a shit if you're the most popular teacher?

But they still chose me as class leader, so I'll just take that. And also, it kind of still worked out for you in a lot of ways, even though you didn't pick that one. But I think I want people to understand, like, for me, again, it goes back to, like...

Being pretty much trapped as a child and you're like in most popular wasn't about people liking me. It was about me liking me. It was about me feeling the freedom. It was about me being able to truly live my life. And so that's,

You know, I think I said this together when we were on a podcast and maybe not on mine, but like everybody's in the closet about something. Everybody. You don't know you. There's something about people, whether it's something they search online, whether it's a secret that they have, whether it's something that they said to somebody that they really don't want to.

So everybody's in a closet about something. If people could just understand that, they would be way more forgiving of other people. Compassion, I think. Lots of compassion. I know. That's the thing. People don't realize everyone... I'm hiding something right now. I mean, everyone is, right? Everybody is. Like there's something about me that nobody would know, would ever would freak. I mean, I think that's very... That's like very true to anybody. And anybody who pretends that's not the case is when we get into trouble. Yeah. Like we have. So then how did you then...

Wait, so in this first tranche of therapy, what did you learn about yourself? The first therapy was a gay therapist. Okay. So I was just able to talk. It was my first time being able to be free to talk through everything without being judged. My second therapist, I went to him for like three or four years. Then my second, I took a break. And then my second therapist, because I had a hard time accepting love from the person I love the most.

that was the most impactful at that time. How did you guys meet, by the way? They have these hookup sites. They're apps now. Is it called Grindr? Well, we didn't have Grindr. We had Manhunt.net back then, honey. Oh, really? They didn't have Grindr back then? How long has Grindr been around for? I don't know. Grindr ain't been around that long, but Manhunt was the one child. What, really? Manhunt.

So if I told you out there that me and Scott met at the gym, it was the gym. We were romping around, but in another way, getting to it. Really? So what does Matt have to tell us watching this show?

know about manhunt I mean all the clips every do you edit every good clip please send it to me I swear to god I put it up as reels and I'll be like go listen you know this is amazing okay so I want to know about I want to know about manhunt now we're getting into the good part oh manhunt is the shit so is it still around I don't know I don't need to go on that one why is everyone laughing so hard why is it so funny I

Child, you got your arms up. Don't even try it. The peanut gallery. You're stretching for something. Why are you guys all laughing over here? So, man is... So, you know...

I'm just going to keep it real. The gays be trying to act like it's a dating website. I'm like, no, child, this ain't Tinder or like Bumble. This is, you know, you go... You would go on that site. Yeah, for a session. Yeah. Isn't that what all the sites are? Isn't that what Grindr is? I mean, yeah, but Grindr wasn't... I'm just saying there wasn't an app. Like you had... Right, so it's the same as what Grindr would be today. It's the same as Grindr and Scruff. Yeah, it's the same as Bumble. Scruff? What's that one? Oh, that's another one. Is that a popular one? I mean...

I mean, Chip, I mean, I'm not, you know, I'm not the PR for them, but I mean, I guess it does the trick. Maybe you should be. It does the trick for a lot of people, honey. Is it more popular than Grindr now? Oh my God, I'm hot. No, Grindr is the most popular. You should go to Grindr, like Instagram, like Grindr on Instagram. It's hilarious. Is it? Yeah. I know that the founder was

My husband knew the founder for a long time because he was in like my, a group that my husband's in.

And I remember, I mean, he was like a young guy when he started. Do you know that? Have you met the guy? No, but I would love to. If you're out there with his name. I can't remember. It was like, can I interview you in my podcast? Absolutely. I'm going to find out for you. Remind me, send me a text or whatever. Let me ask my husband about it. Cause I was going to put him on my podcast too. And I totally forgot about it. He was so, I mean, he was like, yeah, I'll find out. I don't know if he's in the group anymore. I'll find out. Okay. I'm sure there's a way to find him.

Oh, yeah. It's super easy to find. Okay, so Manhunt. So you're on Manhunt. There's a hookup, blah, blah, blah. And then you see this guy, Scott. Yeah. And then what happens? Actually, I just saw his... Guys, we're back on. Come on. We're trying to entertain y'all. No, I'm kidding. Yeah, exactly. Get off Manhunt. We'll be grinding now. Yeah, exactly. Or scrub. What was that? I looked at it.

Oh, you were doing, he was doing, you know, research. Recon. He was getting the facts, honey. Come on. But, um, so, yo, I mean, actually I saw his torso.

Because he wasn't showing his face on the- And you still- Yeah, it was a nice torso. Is that really what happens on these sites and Grindr? Do you just show body shots or like- I mean, a lot of people show face, like if they don't care, you know, but some people don't want their face- Just based on a torso, you responded? Yeah, I was like, he fine as fuck, okay? Okay.

And then we just kind of like started chatting. I don't know if he messaged me or vice versa, but I mean, you know, at the end of the day, even if you don't see somebody's like full body, if you have like, oh, like there's something attractive, like about them. Like a nice torso. Yeah, you start chatting. And then if you start chatting in a way that's not just like, let's meet five minutes from now. And like he and I have been chatting for a couple of weeks, just like,

It went from like, oh my gosh, your body's hot. And then you can share pictures in the back office, what I like to call it. Really? So you can share all kinds of pictures. So was your face on the app though? Did they know it was you? You know, I was showing people hip hop abs. You wasn't knowing me. Well, I was going to say, so what were you showing? Your calf? I was showing everything. So you both had your torso. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Torso love. Yeah. Anyway, so we had a conversation and then we ended up meeting. So, I mean, we ended up meeting like... In the gym. I mean, it was... Well, it was a date, but...

It was a date. The first date was a date? Like a date? No, the first date was a shutdown session, honey. That's what I'm saying. I don't know how to say it otherwise. Really? In the gym? No, no, no, no. I mean, I met him on... I told you I'd be lying to people. I don't tell them... I'm like, we met on the street corner. No, you did not. I said, where you want to meet? Let's check this out. And that's what really happened? You just hooked up with him and then you got married? It was that good? Honestly, the real love story is actually I met him on the corner.

I saw him sitting on the ledge of the CVS windowsill, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he walked over to me and I was like, oh my God. Like, I was like, I can't. And we started walking. I was like, literally like, we started walking and talking. Literally within seconds, I was like, I'm literally going to be with this person for the rest of my life. Really? And I found out like two or three months later, two months later, he said the same thing to himself. Like, we just knew. Yeah.

So then what was the problem that you couldn't accept love from him? Okay. So this chemistry was like undeniable. So we had moved in together. We were like, you know, yeah, yeah. But I just had a lot of emotional issues and it was really based around love and trust. And so what would happen is,

It would be weird, like multiple nights a week at like two o'clock in the morning, I will wake up. I would have these really crazy dreams. I would literally wake up like sometimes screaming or cursing somebody out. And then he would try to help me and we would be in a living room and then I would start blaming him. Like it was wild. It's a very hard thing to talk about. And he was like super patient and so kind as I was going through this. Like, you know, and it was really bad. Like most people would have been like,

I mean, it didn't happen during the day. We didn't fight like that during the day, but it would always happen at night. It was terrible. Because these dreams were happening. These dreams were happening. And I would wake up and then one day I couldn't go to therapy. She couldn't bring me in to talk. So she was like, hey, I have 15 minutes. Can you call me? And she was like, tell me what's going on. I was like, you know, every...

So often, every couple nights a week, I would wake up and she was like, you know, and I was like, two o'clock, like around two o'clock in the morning, like this crazy shit would happen. And she was like, but what happened at two o'clock in the morning? And I was like, oh my God, that was a time where I would be getting molested. It's exactly the same time. It was exactly the same time. I'm getting chills because it was, it was crazy. And that's why I like to tell people like, you do not understand that the things that happened to you that affected you,

long ago that you suppressed come out in other ways. Like anything that's super traumatic, you need to get help. You need to talk through it. It is a need. It is not a want. It is a necessity for you to have, you know, really great mental health. And I just remember going to him and just like apologizing. And that was the start of me like getting better in my head. I actually started writing my book before that. And when I went to therapy, I was like, I can't write a book right now because I'm

Like, I don't have these answers, you know? And then after I finished therapy with that woman, who's amazing, I call her Babs. Then I was like, you know, I finished therapy and a couple of years after just like utilizing all the things that I learned, I felt just like so great. Wow. So that was your second, was he your second relationship after that one? He was my third relationship. Fourth. Fourth.

Oh, but why do you think it happened? Those dreams started then and not before? Because I really. Liked him. Oh. Like loved him. I loved him. I mean, I love him still the same more. The same. Like I love him. Like he is so wonderful. Oh my God. You can see it in your eyes. Like he's really, really wonderful. Like what's the one thing that you really love about him? That's hard to say one thing. I think generally. That draws you to him.

Like his silence is so profound. Like he's really fun and festive if you meet him, but generally like he will disappear from a room. And I noticed that when he disappears, like I get super, I get super lonely. Like when I left him yesterday at the airport, my kids like,

My friend, I saw a friend that I hadn't seen in a while. And today he texted me. He said, I think something was bothering you yesterday, but I'm sorry I didn't ask after you asked me how I was doing. I was like, I just left Scott. Like if I, whenever I leave the house, if I'm going on a trip, like,

We'll text each other like 10 minutes later. He's like, my heart still aches when you leave. I'm like, I know this is fucking terrible. That is unbelievably beautiful. You don't even hear, you don't hear that very often. Yeah. He's like really great. You can see, look at you. I'm going to cry because you're saying it. You're like so emotional just talking about him. It's really crazy. Like I really love him. It's like,

Like he, I think it's like, I almost say like it's unfair that people don't like some people don't get to experience this kind of love, you know? And it's not even love. It's just like, I like the entire thing.

I mean, don't get it twisted. Like we have our arguments, you know, we have to go through shit, you know, never anything bad, but we definitely like are growing and we talk about things, but we don't have secrets and we have to talk about stuff. We make a pact. Like you cannot not talk about something that's bothering you. And it doesn't matter where we are. Like we're going to like, we're going to figure this the fuck out.

Because it's just like what we do and who we are. And he's the most important person in your life. The most important. Like, you know, I understand that kids are great. But like when my kids get old enough, they're going to be like, well, you know, we should be the most important. I'm like, no, your dad is the most important. Because without him, you like, we don't have this kind of happiness. You know? There's a whole thing in the Jewish religion law about that. Right. Because kids will grow up and they go on the road. You know, they go out in the merry way. And they always say that like the...

the other person should be the most important person. And the kids should know that too. Our kids, they know it. They are like, it's really great too that they know it. That's the whole thing. It shows them. It models for them. Because Scott and I will give each other a kiss or whatever. So at night, Silas will be like, well, can I get a smooch? And I'm like, I'll smooch you, but it's not the kind of smooch that I give dad that. He's like, well, I just want a smooch.

It sounds like you're such a nice family unit though. It is. We, I mean, we really, it is really, really great. And the thing that's like really great about our relationship is that we let each other grow. Yeah. We don't, we're not like, oh, we're together. So we have to like live in this. We, we're, we're the same people that who we are when we met, but we're enhanced versions of ourselves. And,

And if he wants to experience something, go somewhere, try something new. We never, we don't tell each other no. I'm like, absolutely. Yeah, go for it. Yeah, I do the same thing. I think that's probably the biggest reason why so many relationships fail.

Yeah. It's because people like try to hold that, you know, like the bird in the hand, you know, you hold it so close, you kill the bird. Yeah. If you squeeze too hard. Yeah. That's a really good point though too. So then still, how did you become this? So is through your life experience that you kind of just became this human being? Yeah. I think that like the evolution of who I am from the aspect of being a young kid to my workouts is,

till now is my ability to continue to find freedom within.

Yeah. And you're still on this quest, right? Like you're in therapy again. But like, I feel like what we kind of touched upon on the podcast with yours is that, you know, you're kind of like, I'm Joe, I was joking around about like how you're good at everything. But quite frankly, you are good at a lot of things or you have interest in a lot of things like a lot of people do. I think it's, I think, you know, it's funny you say that because I'm like, no, don't say I'm good at everything. But I think you just made a very valid point.

If I'm interested in it and I have the ability to try it, I try. You try it. And I think that if you sometimes take professional athletes or actors or when...

I even look at social media and everyone's like, what's your niche? I'm like, that's really great. It's really awesome that you're a great athlete or you're a great social media influencer or you're a great artist. But that's not the depth of who you are. That's just what people know you to be really good at. And it could only be one thing of 20. Right. And so for me, one of the things that I had to learn, and it's kind of tough with social media, like

Yes, I'm really great fitness motivator, right? I wrote a book. I can speak. I have a podcast. But I love shaking my ass. I love taking nude photos because, bitch, listen, I'm fine as fuck at 44, you know? And I don't think... You don't need to think I'm fine. But if you can't... You think you are. If you don't look... If you can't look in the mirror...

Every step of your journey. I mean, I didn't always have the body that I have, but I'm like, well, the only way you're going to get the body that you want is to love the body that you're in. So for me, I just continue to find that. And I want that for everybody else. So how do you tell people to kind of get that for themselves? What's the step to even do it if you don't have that experience?

intuitively or you're in a place where you don't feel great about yourself. I think that like one of the things that you can do is make a list of all the things that you want to do.

And how many of those things are you going after? And of the things that you're not going after, why aren't you going after them? And the reason why you're not going after them is because of some kind of barrier that you put on yourself or someone else put on you. And most of the time, the barrier is time. And I believe that people say, I don't have time. But I can say, well, you have time to do social media. You take time to do this.

Start taking time to do that one thing that you really just want to try and do. Like it, you know, like just, just go for it. I get you. And so let's turn it to you because last time I talked to you, you're like, you're throwing a lot of stuff at the wall, right? Yeah.

But do you take your own advice? Because what happens a lot of times is people can compartmentalize you as the fitness shanty. Like, you know, because like if I didn't know what I know, I'd be like, he's amazing in fitness. He's the fitness guy. But now it's like, wait, if you just pivoted a little bit this way at fitness,

22, you could have done this, you could have done that. You could have had probably 12 other careers if you just like were interested in it and like tried it, like you say, right? You were interested and then you tried it and then it kind of takes it from there.

So what would it like, do you want to have like a phase two of your career? Like what's the, like, what's the next thing? Are you going to dive deep into the galaxy stuff or something else? Like what else are your, what else are you passionate about? If it's not fitness? Well, I think that fitness is always going to be a part of my life. Right. For sure. Not just because of calories in calories out, but just because it makes you feel really good. Right. Yeah.

Um, but like right now I'm on a quest to help men release their selves from having to be a man. I think one of the, one of the messages and types of messages that I get so much is from guys who are hiding something about their lives and they just don't have anywhere to go to, or like because of religion or because of men having to be strong, they find weakness in

emotion. They find weakness in expression. And so, like you said, throw noodles up against the wall. Like, what am I doing? So right now I am on a quest to create retreats for men to go to. And, you know, I have a whole plan that I'm doing, but like, I just want men to start to feel free as a 44 year old man. You know, I,

Found myself, you know, I didn't have like ED issues like erectile dysfunction, but the stress of becoming a man, the stress of becoming a dad, the stress of becoming a business owner would affect me in so many ways. And so then I had to like change.

seek out hormone therapy. I had to, I went back to therapy. Are you on hormone therapy? Is that why you're so big? Well, I'm on hormone therapy. My testosterone was like unbelievably low. My, my stress was unbelievably high. My, my, um, estrogen was really high. I was 18% body fat in January and nobody would have guessed it because of the way, like I looked fine, but I was just

carrying a lot of stress. And I was carrying a lot of stress because I was like, well, I don't want to burden anyone else. I'm the quote unquote leader until I just started telling people like, yo, this is how I feel. I got surgery. I found peace in doing nothing. How? Yeah.

How to find peace in doing nothing? By doing nothing. By doing it. Because like I said before. Interested, you try it. Yeah. But like I said before, as a high achiever, doing nothing is laziness to me. When nothingness and laziness, in quotes, completely changed the course of my life.

It did? Yeah, because I was able to listen and hear myself think. So, because you just said something that I think I can really relate to. Like when I'm not doing something, I do feel like unproductive. I feel lazy. I beat myself up. And you feel that when you stop to do that, it changed. I think that life is very similar to sleep, right? Like my friend Sean Stevenson wrote a book, Sleep Smarter, right? Yeah.

When you sleep, your body heals. I think it's the same thing when you're awake. When you rest your body and just chill for a minute, your body heals. And for me, my mind was able to... I felt such freedom. Like it was so wild to the point where I just started getting happy by not... By doing nothing, whereas before it would stress me the hell out. Yeah.

Because my shoulder forced you, you had, you had to do nothing. So you had a catalyst. Yeah. And then I went and I got a trainer. I had this woman who trains me every three days a week, four days a week, who is like amazing. Like she's just the most incredible personal trainer for me. Like she is, I think I tell, I tell all the time, I think your parents made you for me. You know, I say that, um, I,

Get massages. I do a lot of self-care. I gave everyone in my company each quarter, they get two self-care days, like two mental health days is what I actually call them. I'm like, extend your weekend. It is mandatory for you to take four days to be with and for yourself because I'm

And don't do it when you get stressed. Do it when you're happy. Because then you can think clearer and you're not stressed. You're not taking these self-care days because you have to get out of stress. You're like, I want you to be like, Sean, I feel so fucking good. Like I'm going to take my two days next week and I'm going to be like,

You know, because you're vibrating at a very high level, you know, that's amazing that you, I think more and more people are starting maybe to do that a little bit more, but it does change the, like just the, the, the, I guess the vibes in, in your, in not just your corporation or company, but in your personal relationships. So they'll do it before you get to that place. All right. So how long has it been now, guys? It's been like an hour. How long has this podcast been? It's been like an hour. Okay.

Okay, hour and a half. So why don't we do this? Why don't we like cut it here and then we can do another part because I want to hear more about everything else. We've covered a lot of stuff about the making of Chanti and of course all of your background, by the way, which is, I just have to say it's miraculous and just amazing how you were able to build the life you have given the life you were given. And this is,

Like, it's just, it's, it's, this is just goes to show you that anybody can have what they want. If they, if they, if they actually, I say, my thing is I say, chase what you want. Don't take what you can get. And you are literally like, uh,

beacon for that. Really, it's amazing. Thank you. I think that, you know, life does give you what life is going to give you. And I don't want to downplay anybody's struggles, right? Because we all have struggles. And I think one of the things that's really bad in fitness, it's just like that guy who just like hated on Lizzo the other day about like her body and like... Again, that happened? Yeah, it's just terrible. But I think what happens in fitness is that

Just because I have results, like people think that just because I have results, you should do it too. But you forget that you had a process to get to the greatness that you consider yourself to be. And so for me, I just want to tell people out there where you are right now is where you're supposed to be. Just try to take one step to being the better you are.

that you want to be. Not be better because your mom says so, or your dad says so, or your friends say so. Like, be better because you want to be better. Get to where you want to go because you want to go there. Be positively selfish in your life. You know, the days of doing things for everybody else, that's really great. Yeah, I want to help people make money. Yes, I want to help people get fitter. Yes, I want to inspire and motivate. But I have to

Be the nucleus of my existence. I have to be the sun to my solar system. So for me, without our sun, I think I said this on the podcast, but without our sun, the earth would be frozen and immobile. So be the sun. Be the sun to yourself. Create light and energy and life.

and warmth and just love yourself. See, this is why people like you so much because you make them feel good about where they are and not feel guilty about where they're not.

And I think that's the bottom line, right? And that's why your classes were popular at Equinox. That's why hip hop and insanity. And like, by the way, I wanted to say this and we can talk with it next time, but your program insanity was the top, top most successful program of all time in fitness. It actually beat P90X. I thought it was P90X and it was actually insanity. Oh, well, it's like a, what a billion, how many copies were sold? Millions. I love, I love Tony Horton. No shade, but I mean, a little competition is fine.

Yeah. I don't think he'd think so, but that's his... Oh, he wouldn't, please. He probably still hates me. No, no, no. Well... Well, I don't know. Maybe. I mean, listen, you know... But I will respect that man forever. Like, you know, I think very similar to me and Chalene Johnson. Chalene Johnson, we...

Like collectively had our way of motivating the masses and we all, which I think is really, really great. And this is what I want people out there to do for themselves. We all created a life that we loved and we attract people to our authenticity. And that's what I want people to do.

Like be as authentic as you can because it is true. Quality over quantity. A hundred percent. I love that. Go follow Shanti. Tell everyone where to find you. Oh, cool. Well, you can find me in the street, honey. In front of CBS on a street corner. No, you can find me on all social platforms at Shanti, S-H-A-U-N-T. Or you can go to shantilife.com. Sign up for my email list.

and you'll be involved in all the fun stuff that I'm doing. - And there's a lot.

Thank you. I loved having you on this podcast, as I'm sure you can imagine. It's been like God knows how long we went way over. So thank you. Thank you. I love you. Thank you. I love you back. Habits and hustle. Time to get it rolling. Stay up on the grind. Don't stop. Keep it going. Habits and hustle from nothing in the summer. All out hosted by Jennifer Cohen. Visionaries tune in. You can get to know them. Be inspired. This is your moment.

excuses we ain't having that the habits and hustle podcast powered by habit nest