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Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. What do you remember? It was, man, it was just, it was all, it was bad. Blood, you know what I'm saying? Stuff was coming out of her mouth. Did you think that she was dying? I didn't think that she was going to die.
Hello and welcome to Season 11, Episode 264 of Sword and Scale. A show that reveals that the worst monsters are real. Speaking of real, boy, nothing makes a really horrific true crime story real for you as much as standing in front of the building where a young woman was tortured to death and
by people who she thought were her friends and it all comes to you all at once like oh this really really happened you know otherwise you're just sitting in a dark room talking in a microphone but producing sword and scale television has really solidified in my mind just how awful people can be um
I hope you get a chance to see it because I think we're doing something incredible. I think we're elevating the true crime platform to a new place. The stories we're telling, the way we're telling them, this has never been done before. So I really do hope that you do get a chance to see it. I know it's expensive, but we do have plans to add additional offerings to the video tier. You know, eventually we have to start somewhere. And I think we started at the very top, at the very pinnacle of true crime.
which is Sword and Scale television. I think you're going to love it. If you're interested in checking it out and also supporting independent media, head on over to swordandscale.com or download the Sword and Scale app on your iOS or Android phone.
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So visit your local Toyota dealer and check out amazing national sales event deals when you visit buyatoyota.com. Toyota, let's go places. During the course of a murder investigation, and especially if a particular murder is ultimately solved, there is a word that gets thrown around a lot. That word is closure.
Oftentimes, family members of a murder victim seek answers in an effort to obtain that ever-elusive closure. Aside from wanting to know who is responsible for their loved one's death, they also want to know why that person committed the murder in the first place. Then, they usually want to see that person punished. Many families wait years to get all of these things, if they're lucky enough to get them all. But after they get them,
Does closure actually ever truly come? In a murder case, is closure really even possible? Just over 20 years ago, in mid-August of 2002, a middle-aged mom in Fort Wayne, Indiana received a voicemail from her only daughter's ex-boyfriend. It was the kind of voicemail that no mother wants to hear. She was told that her daughter had been badly injured and was being rushed to the hospital.
Earlier that night, Fort Wayne police were called to a fairly chaotic scene at a residence where a small house party had been taking place.
The attendees were mostly young adults in their late teens and early 20s. The lead investigator that was eventually assigned to this case was Fort Wayne homicide detective Brian Martin.
Fort Wayne police officers arrived to what was put out as a party. When they arrived, they discovered a female who was suffering from some type of cut or stab wound to the chest and abdomen area. They observed that there were approximately eight to ten individuals standing around with one or two of the individuals providing aid to the victim. The young female victim was rushed to a hospital.
as the responding officers turned the house party into a crime scene and began questioning the witnesses.
The police learned that shortly after the victim arrived at the house party, a physical and fairly brutal fight broke out in the backyard between her and another teenager. When she pulled up, everybody was outside in the back. And that's when all hell broke loose. Okay. Where were you at during all this? I was upstairs in the bedroom with a bunch of people smoking weed. So you're upstairs smoking weed? What do you remember?
She got into an altercation with another female. When it comes to the fight, do you remember the fight? Oh, man, they were just scuffling around. They were on the ground. When you left, did you know that somebody said the cops were coming or why did you? Oh, we heard them. Oh, you could hear them coming? We heard them. The police also learned that the victim in this case was soon-to-be high school senior Stacey DeGrandchamp.
So Stacey DeGrantchamp was a very popular young lady, approximately 16, 17 years old. Everybody that we spoke to about Stacey described her as a popular, young, energetic young lady who had goals of going to college.
And they were very excited about where life was going to take Stacey. Her personality was that energetic, charismatic, and everybody, including Stacey herself, had high hopes and big plans for life. Stacey was an only child, but she found sisterhood in her cousin, Jamie McMillan, who lived only a few houses away from Stacey. I am Jamie McMillan, and I am the cousin of Stacey DeGreene-Cham.
Our moms are twins, and we definitely grew up extremely close. There was only two years difference between the two of us. Stacey was an extremely fun person to be around. She was always full of energy. She enjoyed playing volleyball. She loved her family very much. She was the oldest of all the girls, and there's about 28 cousins between all of us.
Stacey was getting ready to start her senior year at Wayne High School, which back in 2002 was pretty standard public high school. Among the halls and in the classrooms were the typical cliques of jocks, stoners, band geeks, and the like. In the social hierarchy, Stacey was undeniably at the top, with her blonde hair, bright eyes, and prowess in volleyball.
She was one of the most popular students at Wayne High, if not the most popular. I feel like a lot of people were jealous of Stacey, just based off of how beautiful she was and her outgoing personality. I think a lot of people envied her. The police also learned that the teenager who had gotten into a fight with Stacey was Holly Boisvert.
Another student at Wayne High. So Holly Boisvert, as a young lady, she also attended Wayne High School. 16, 17-year-old girl. She kind of kept to herself, maybe ran with a little bit tougher crowd. She could be standoffish at times. Holly, I don't believe initially was the kind of girl that you would think of as a troublemaker, but she definitely had a little bit of a rough side to her.
In many ways, Stacey and Holly were very opposite people. They were both attractive teenage girls, but Stacey was known to be bright, bubbly, and outgoing, while Holly was pretty introverted and carried herself with an edge. Just because I remember her as a teenager through my group of friends, she was the tough one. You know, she was the...
I'll beat anybody up or, you know, like out of our group of friends. She was a little rough around the edges. Okay. Needless to say, Stacey and Holly weren't close, but they did know each other through mutual friends. Several months before the two girls had their fight at a house party, Stacey began dating a young man named Brandon Muff.
To know Stacey and Brandon was to also know that they really didn't make much sense together. Stacey was a preppy teenager who always did her schoolwork and 20-year-old Brandon had a reputation for being a local bad boy. Actually, come to think of it, most high schools have this sort of arrangement. Pretty popular girl dating the older bad dude with a leather jacket.
Seems to be a popular trope. Stacey started dating Brandon Muff back when she was about 16 years old. The relationship didn't seem to last very long. We automatically knew that that was not a good fit for her. That was a terrible decision and we were pretty boisterous about that as her family.
Stacey dated Brandon for a few months, and it just so happened that Brandon was Holly's ex-boyfriend.
Though the term ex-boyfriend should be used loosely here because Brandon was playing both girls. So Holly dated Brandon, and I'm not quite certain on how long the relationship lasted, but ultimately Brandon broke up with Holly and then later on Stacey started dating Brandon.
It appeared Brandon was kind of playing both sides of the field, if you will, or dating both girls at the same time. Or there may have been some overlap or some bad communication as to what his intentions were with the young ladies. After Stacey began dating Brandon, Holly went out of her way to make life hard for Stacey.
In an attempt to drive a wedge between Stacey and their group of friends, Holly began spreading rumors about Stacey. Holly was extremely upset once she found out that Brandon and Stacey started dating. She went around spreading different rumors and just bad, throwing Stacey's name completely under the bus, where friends that were mutual friends decided that they either couldn't retain their friendship with her or that they kind of
By mid-August of 2002, Stacey had broken off things with Brandon and was preparing to start her senior year at Wayne High. But about a week before school was scheduled to start, Stacey was invited to a house party where Brandon lived.
Stacey was reluctant about going, but was ultimately convinced to attend by her friend, Abby. Stacey ended up going to the Guthrie home that night. She was there with a mutual friend of Brandon's named Abby, and Abby ended up taking Stacey there that night. Stacey was reluctant. She didn't really want to go, but for whatever reason, Abby had her talked into, let's go to this party. And so Abby drove her there that night.
Naturally, after Stacey was rushed to the hospital, Abby was one of the first people that the police questioned. According to Abby, as well as many other witnesses,
The fight between Stacey and Holly broke out pretty much as soon as Stacey arrived at the party. So we end up going and I park in the driveway. The girl comes out and they get in this altercation. Both Holly and Stacey had a verbal exchange, verbal argument. They got pretty heated by the back door of the residence. The girls had this fight.
Eventually, the fight between Stacey and Holly was broken up, and Abby suggested to Stacey that they should just leave.
According to Abby, she and Stacey walked towards Abby's car and for a brief moment Abby looked away from Stacey. But when she looked back, Stacey was no longer standing. She was suddenly lying in the driveway and clutching her chest. Shortly after,
Many of the other partygoers began to gather around Stacy. What do you remember about Stacy laying there? Did you think that she was dying?
I didn't think that she was going to die. Eventually, 911 was called. Police and ambulance showed up, and Stacey was rushed to a hospital. Tragically, the cops had some very bad news for Abby. And at this point, I'm like, call 911, call 911. And then everything went so freaking fast at that point. The paramedics came, the police got there, and I was like, is she okay? Is she okay? I'm like freaking out. The police officer looked at me dead in the face and said, she's not going to make it.
And right then it was complete devastation. Abby held on to hope that Stacey was going to survive, but ultimately her hope was in vain. Just a few hours after she arrived at the hospital, 17-year-old Stacey DeGrandchamp was dead. Following her death, Fort Wayne homicide detectives went to work trying to figure out exactly how this happened and who was responsible.
But the case turned out to be much more complicated than they anticipated. In fact, this case remained unsolved for quite a while, and nobody would get any real answers about Stacy's death for nearly 20 years.
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Agents answer the call, working together to keep our country and communities safe. If you're ready for a new mission, join U.S. Border Patrol and go beyond. Learn more at cbp.gov slash careers. On the night of August 15, 2002, two high school students in Fort Wayne, Indiana, Stacey DeGrandchamp and Holly Boisvert, began fighting each other at a small house party.
The fight started as a shouting match but quickly escalated to shoving, hair pulling, punching, kicking, and rolling around on the ground. Typical girl fight. After the fight ended, Stacey collapsed in the driveway as she was attempting to leave. When an ambulance and police arrived, it became apparent that Stacey had life-threatening injuries and she was rushed to a nearby hospital. A few hours later, Stacey died and the following morning,
Her cousin, Jamie, was made aware of Stacey's passing. I learned from my mom waking me up with my aunt in our family room, very sobbing, crying. And I just said, Mom, what is it? What's wrong? What's wrong? And she said, Stacey died. She's gone. I just remember feeling this numb feeling just over my entire body and just feeling extremely weak.
The shock feeling. There wasn't so much emotion right away. It was the shock feeling. And all I could say was, no, this isn't happening now. It's not true. And then I proceeded to go into the living room where I seen Rita, her mom. I felt the way that she looked, that's had to be how I looked at that point in time. Just a feeling of loss. You couldn't even speak.
All you could do was stop crying together as a family and ask yourself, you know, then the million and one questions as to why. When Jamie and the rest of Stacey's family learned that Stacey had died, they weren't given much information about how or why this all happened. Again, at this point in time, we still had no idea really what had happened. We met with the detectives.
told us a little bit about what had happened. They didn't have any idea who did it. They did not have a murder weapon. They just had stated that Holly and Stacey were in an altercation in the backyard and that they're going to get who did this. And, you know, of course, our fingers immediately said Holly did it. She had the altercation. But at that point in time, we still weren't certain on what involvement Brandon had.
20-year-old Brandon Muff dated both Holly and Stacey, and he was the host of the house party where Stacey was injured. Naturally, the police interviewed Brandon, and during that interview, Brandon freely admitted that he had invited both girls to his party while being well aware of the fact that they didn't like each other. Stacey and Abby came over, and they told me that they would be
Brandon explained that when Holly arrived at his house, she had been dropped off by a few friends. A short while later, Stacey's friend Abby pulled into the driveway, with Stacey sitting in the car's passenger seat.
Abby told police that almost immediately after she and Stacey showed up to the party, Holly and Stacey got into an argument, with each girl shouting at the other. Then the physical fighting began.
And Stacey had, you know, she could be a little hothead sometimes. And, you know, if somebody had problems with her, she wasn't scared to confront it. And I think she wanted just to have a conversation and maybe it would have gotten heated. You know, I believe that the conversation would have gotten heated, but then it just, and this was a matter of a few minutes. This all happened. It was just insane. And I'm like, Brandon, help me stop this. Help me.
After the two girls started hitting each other, Abby called upon Brandon to break it up. But Brandon wasn't too keen on stopping two attractive young girls from fighting, in large part, about him. When I stepped in, I said, well, if they're going to fight, let them fight. So they started fighting. It ended up both of them on the ground, and Stacey was kicking Holly in the face. So...
By all accounts, Stacey won the fight. And after it ended, she seemed fine.
Brandon pulled her away from Holly and Stacey stumbled into some recycling bins. Then Abby suggested that they leave the party. And they stand up, Stacey standing there, and I was like, let's just fucking go. So she walks around the side of my car. I look the other way, I look back, she's on the ground. When I go over there, I see blood start coming through her shirt. After I saw what was going on, I screamed for Brandon. Then I went over there and got on the ground and I noticed that
You know, she had blood on her shirt and she was bleeding so I lifted up her shirt halfway and there was a hole in her stomach. Stacey was choking and she had started choking at that point and I turned her on her side because I thought maybe she was going to vomit or something and she did. And I asked her what happened and she told me the pain started when I broke up the fight.
Brandon's account of what happened was consistent with the statements that all of the witnesses at the party had given to police. So Brandon probably wasn't lying. But none of his versions of events explained how Stacey got injured, or...
how this fight led to her death. When Stacy was taken to the hospital, they knew right away that she had a cut to her middle of her chest just under her breast as well as her abdomen. And by the time that she had gotten picked up by the ambulance and transported a very short distance to a trauma center, there was nothing that could be done to save her life. After Stacy died in the hospital, her family was put into a truly awful position.
Stacey was a vibrant 17-year-old girl with a bright future ahead of her. And her family had to bury her without any answers as to how this happened or who was responsible. Stacey went out shopping for her senior year outfit the day that she died.
In very poor taste and to the shock of Stacey's family,
Brandon Muff made an appearance at the viewing for Stacey. Brandon showed up and my one aunt said, Brandon, you look at her and you look what you did to her. You did this. You put her there.
And he turned around and yelled back and said, I love that girl. I would never do anything to hurt her. And continued to yell profanity as he exited out of the funeral home. During the police investigation, detectives were hoping that they could find a murder weapon, if there even was one. Stacey's injuries suggested that she could have been stabbed. So a search effort was made to find the knife.
Law enforcement during the search of the residence as a crime scene went through the entire house. They went through the exterior of the home. They documented the area around the home. Knives from the kitchen and from the kitchen sink were removed from the residence and tested at this time. And shortly thereafter, it was learned that none of the knives that were taken from the residence were in fact a weapon used to kill Stacey.
When Brandon was questioned, he told police that during the fight, he never saw Holly or anyone with a knife or any kind of weapon at all. And during the time that Stacey and Holly was fighting, was there anyone else around or involved in the fight? Nope. And you were the only person that...
As for everyone else who witnessed the fight, they told police the very same thing. Nobody saw a knife.
Nobody saw a weapon. The day the fight happened, did you see or talk to Holly at all? Do you recall? Yes. I dropped her off to the location. When you dropped her off, do you know if she had been carrying a knife with her, right? I don't remember seeing a knife. I'm not going to say she didn't have a knife, though. Okay. Do you remember seeing a weapon? No, I didn't see a weapon. Anybody?
I didn't see no weapons. All I've seen is two girls getting into a fight. Did you see the other girl's hands? I mean, I seen them. It looked like she didn't have anything in her hands. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. It just looked like a fight. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.
Let me ask you this. At any time, did you see Holly with a knife? No. Any time after the fight or even since she passed, did you ever hear that she had a knife? I never heard anything about a weapon. I never saw a weapon. That's why this is so hard. Given that no weapon was found and that nobody ever saw one, the detectives began to wonder if Stacey had been cut or stabbed in some way.
Brandon and other witnesses told police that the fight ended when Brandon dragged Stacy away from Holly. Stacy then stood up and stumbled or fell into a nearby collection of recycling bins. Maybe Stacy was somehow and...
unknowingly injured then. These puncture wounds or these stab wounds initially were described as possibly being some kind of cut from glass or metal. And it was described by people at the scene that during the altercation between Holly and Stacey, that a recycle bin with glass and bottles was knocked over. And I believe everybody initially thought that possibly Stacey was cut by glass or
There was, of course, one other very important person that the police talked to, and that was the girl who fought with Stacey, Holly Boisvert. Unfortunately, for the sake of this episode, the cops decided to record the audio of this interview with a potato. Okay.
When Holly gave her statement to police, she claimed that she had no idea how Stacey got stabbed.
She admitted that she had gotten into a fight with Stacy and that Stacy won the fight. Then Brandon broke it up. And a few moments later, Stacy collapsed in the driveway. It was the same story that everyone else had told police.
Holly did give the information about a recycle bin that had glass and bottles in it being knocked over and that she initially thought that possibly that was how Stacey had received her injuries. Holly further indicated that she was kind of getting the, or was on the losing end of this fight. She claimed that she had no idea how the injuries to Stacey occurred.
The physical evidence and witness statements ultimately led police nowhere, so they began considering motives. Who would want Stacey dead and why? As they looked into this, they learned something interesting. On the night that the fight happened, Holly Boisvert had been dropped off at the house party by two teenage friends, Amanda Richards and Whitney McGeehy, both of whom went to high school with Stacey.
The police eventually discovered that just before Stacey died, Whitney McGeehee had called Stacey and left her an odd voicemail. Whitney called Stacey the day that she died and left a voice message on the answer machine that Stacey would never get. She never got that voice message, but Whitney left a very threatening message that you're going to get it tonight.
Based on the rumors that Holly had been spreading about Stacey, Whitney falsely believed that Stacey was bad-mouthing Whitney behind her back and telling lies about her. It was all petty high school drama, but that didn't stop Whitney from calling Stacey and seemingly threatening her. Sadly, Stacey didn't.
Stacey never got this message because she died before she could hear it. The person who discovered the voicemail was Stacey's mom, who promptly gave it to police.
You also called Rita, Stacy's mother, and did you leave a message? And I don't know exactly what I said at that time, but from what I remember, they were both dating the same guy. Right. And basically what had happened is he was going back and forth. So Holly, I don't remember her wording, I don't remember what she said since a long ago, was basically like, not okay with Stacy. So I had called and left a message and said...
Something along the lines of, you need to call me, watch out for her, something like that. When questioned, Whitney couched her voicemail as a friendly warning. She claimed that she wasn't making a threat and was only trying to actively warn Stacey that Holly was going out to get her. Nonetheless, detectives in this case started to wonder if they were being lied to by everyone.
Maybe, just maybe, there was a larger conspiracy going on here. Maybe the rumors that Holly had spread about Stacey prompted all of these teenagers to plot a murder. Maybe Stacey was lured to the house party. Maybe Brandon, Holly, Whitney, and Abby all knew exactly what was going to happen when she got there.
So initially detectives began wondering if this was some kind of a setup, so to speak, meaning that Brandon Muff wanted both girls to be at this party and that he had an agenda or some kind of a plan. And in fact, when other friends tried to break the girls up from the fight that was happening, Brandon had made the comment, no, let them go.
Ultimately, if there was some conspiracy among friends to murder Stacey, the police could never prove it, and the case dragged on. As it did, life continued for everyone involved, but the lives they were living weren't easy.
In particular, Holly Boisvert pretty much became a social outcast and struggled to finish her education at Wayne High School. So after Stacy's death, it's my understanding and from everything that I've been able to gather is that Holly Boisvert was kind of...
According to Whitney McGeehy,
She and all of Holly's former friends pretty much cut Holly out of their lives. We all washed our hands of her once it happened. Did you talk to her at any point after this fight took place? I know that I had called her one time and asked her, did she do it? And she basically denied it to me and I never talked to her again. And I was just done with it. I couldn't. Eventually, Holly's family committed Holly to a mental hospital.
out of fear that she might kill herself. After that fight, did she have to go get a little bit of help because it kind of got in her head a little bit? Well, my dad said he didn't want it to. He didn't want her to get messed up from it, so he kind of made her go in there. Did you know where she went? Park City Behavioral. As Holly was dealing with all of this, Stacey's family was still waiting for answers and still waiting for justice to be handed out. Unfortunately...
Those answers and justice itself never showed up. After we met with the detectives, he promised us that he won't stop until he gets the person that did this. We kind of held on to that promise in the hopes that justice would be served. Any day now, we were waiting for that phone call, any day to come through to say, hey, we've arrested Holly and she's going to be charged with murder. And that phone call just never happened.
For Stacy's family, the days, weeks, and months dragged on, and the DeGrandchamp case went cold. Many years passed without any arrests being made. Initial detectives took this case, I believe, as far as they thought that they could go. There was a lot of misconception around the wounds. It was a little baffling as to how she got stabbed or how she got cut.
Stacey DeGrandchamp was murdered in August of 2002, and it wasn't until 2019 that the case was officially looked into again. That year, Stacey's cousin, Jamie McMillan, reached out to cold case detective Brian Martin and asked him to take a look at it, which he did. From there, Detective Martin began the long process of tracking down the witnesses and everyone involved in the case.
Remarkably, Detective Martin was eventually able to solve the crime and deliver just a little bit of justice to Stacy's family.
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In August of 2002, 17-year-old Stacey DeGrandchamp died after getting into a fight with her schoolmate Holly Boisvert. Stacey and Holly both dated an older guy named Brandon Muff, and this generated a whole lot of pettiness between the two girls and their friends. Insults were lobbied, rumors were spread, and lies were told. It was teenage girl drama.
that most people wouldn't take seriously. But it all became very serious when the fight broke out between Stacey and Holly, and Stacey later died as a result. Unfortunately, when initial homicide detectives investigated this case, they couldn't make sense of how Stacey sustained two life-threatening injuries to her chest and abdomen.
Brandon Muff and other witnesses to the fight claim they never saw Holly or anyone with a knife and a murder weapon was never found. For many years, this case languished and eventually went cold. All the while, Stacey's family waited for answers and for justice. Then in 2019, Stacey's cousin, Jamie McMillan, reached out to cold case homicide detective
Brian Martin and asked him to look into the case, which he did. One of the first things that Detective Martin did was consider some of the original theories that might have explained how Stacey was injured. This included the possibility that Stacey was cut by glass after the fight with Holly. According to Brandon Muff, when he broke up the fight, Stacey stumbled and fell into some nearby recycling bins. And the thinking was that
She may have gotten jabbed by broken glass when this happened. I can tell you that when I began looking at this case, one of the first things I did was look for blood around the recycle bin and look for broken glass or look for sharp objects. And quite honestly, I found no blood around that recycle bin and the photographs whatsoever.
I did not find any broken glass. I didn't see evidence that broken glass was swept up or cleaned up. I also looked at the wounds and the injuries and the reports from trauma-centered doctors as well as coroner staff and quickly realized this was not the type of injury from my training experience and from the reports I was reading that would have been sustained by broken glass. And all intents and purposes, I believe that she was stabbed. It was a knife and she was stabbed.
Another important thing that Detective Martin did was re-interview many of the people who had some sort of link to this case, and that included Brandon Muff.
So I was able to speak with Brandon Muffet an additional time. He was very upset. He was emotional. He said he felt horrible. He said that this affected him and that he has a lot of regret over the fact that he felt that he had put the girls in a situation where they fought and it was because of him and that he was young and doing dumb stuff and he really regretted some of his choices back then.
After almost 20 years, a now 38-year-old Brandon Muff acknowledged that inviting both Stacy and Holly to his house party was a very poor decision, and he deeply regretted his part in putting the girls in that position. Even so, when Detective Martin questioned him, his story about what happened didn't change, and he still couldn't explain how Stacy was stabbed.
The other theory about the case that was tossed around was the possibility that Stacey's death was some kind of conspiracy among Brandon, Holly, and others. Perhaps Stacey was lured to Brandon's house party in order to be murdered. Perhaps it was all set up. But ultimately, the initial detectives and Detective Martin could never find any evidence to back this up.
Initial detectives, as well as myself, did not really find that there was anything to substantiate that Brandon Muff had a hidden agenda to get the girls together so that something like this could happen. For Detective Martin, there was really only one explanation to account for how Stacey got stabbed. It had to have happened during the fight with Holly, and Holly must have successfully concealed the fact that she had Stacey.
A knife. Officially, Holly Boisvert became Detective Martin's main suspect.
And this meant tracking her down and finding out where she landed so many years later. And I was able to find that Holly Boysbert was actually living in Fond du Lac, Wisconsin. It appeared that she was not working. I found that she was living in an apartment complex and it appeared she had a younger son. Detective Martin interviewed several people who were connected to the case, but he saved Holly for last and he didn't tell her he was coming.
Instead, he and another detective just showed up at her doorstep. And ultimately, Holly came to the door. She was wearing pajamas and a T-shirt. She came to the door. She looked a little shocked, kind of had a blank stare on her face. Hey, Holly, how are you? I'm Officer Martin. This is Officer Noel. We were hoping to bend your ear for a minute. Awesome. Holly did invite us in and let us sit down and begin speaking with her about the case.
At the start of this interview, Holly was questioned about the fight she had with Stacey. And Holly explained the details of the punches, kicks, and hair pulling that took place. Her head was closer to your feet and... No? How was she kicking you in the head then? She was like on her back. And I was kind of half on my side, I guess. How do you think that Stacey got cut? I have no idea. Everybody there, we were all friends.
But you and Stacy had kind of had a little beef going on because of Brandon. It was so stupid. I agree. It was like one of those just petty high school girl things, right? Exactly. So you and Stacy had kind of had this little beef. That's what led to this fight. Did you have your pocket knife with you that day?
Holly admitted that she did usually carry a knife with her for protection, but she claimed that she didn't have it on her during the fight with Stacy. She explained that she kept the knife in her purse, which she wasn't carrying when the fight happened.
Holly insisted that she would have never stabbed Stacey because despite the anger they had for each other, Holly still considered Stacey to be a friend. "She was my friend. We were terrible teenage girls, but she was still my friend."
I would not have done that to her intentionally. I never would have pulled a knife on her. Like, I had no intention of fighting her. I didn't know that she was going to be there. We were terrible bitches to each other, but she was still my friend. She's your friend, but you guys were also in a pretty good pissing match over a boy. If you had a pocket knife and she got cut,
Holly attempted to make the very idea of her having a knife seem impossible. Surely, if she had a knife, the police would have found it on her after the fight. Either that or Holly stashed the knife somewhere before cops arrived on scene.
Which is exactly what Holly allegedly told Brandon that she did. A couple days later, when I called Holly on the phone, I got to talking to her about what happened. And she proceeded to tell me that she didn't stab her, but that she had a knife. And I asked her, what did she do with the knife?
Detective Martin and his partner believed and were confident that Holly did have a knife on her during the fight and that Holly stabbed Stacey to death.
They also believed that Holly was still lying about it. What do you think happened to her? How do you think she got those stab wounds? I don't know. I thought at one point that it was glass. That was the only thing that I could think of.
I have all the reports, all the autopsy reports. Glass did not cut her. It was a puncture wound from a knife. Holly, this is the time. If there's some stuff you want to get off your chest, do it. There's no dispute that you and Stacey got into it. And Stacey's wounds happened during the fight. I'm just trying to figure out how or why. There is no way.
It did. That is very well articulated by the medical facts that were gained from the autopsy. There's no way that that would have happened without me realizing it. If you had the pocket knife on you and you got tussled, I mean, just tell me. Because otherwise it looks, it just doesn't look good. I know that. If I even felt like that was a remote possibility, then I would say that. And I never, I never have, I never would have pulled a knife on anybody.
Despite the attempts to get her to admit otherwise, Holly maintained that she did not have a knife and that she never stabbed Stacy. This left Detective Martin with only one option. Holly, I can tell by looking at you and from talking to you and watching you, watching you breathe, just watching your eyes go, you just got to say it. There's nothing for me to say. All right, I'm going to tell you what's going to happen then.
I'm gonna go back to Fort Wayne and I'm gonna present the case to the prosecutor's office and I'm gonna charge you with murder. - After this harsh reality was made clear to Holly, she did something that nobody saw coming. Again, Holly did admit to having a pocket knife in her purse on the night that Stacey was stabbed, but she claimed that she wasn't carrying it during the fight. On a whim, Detective Martin asked Holly if she still had that knife. - Do you still have that pocket knife by chance?
I might. So as we're talking, I asked the question, do you still have this pocket knife from back then that you would have had the night of the stabbing? I had no inkling that she was going to say, yeah, I still have this knife or, oh, maybe I still have this knife. But Holly said that she believed that she did. She got up and she walked back into a back bedroom.
Holly came back with a small package or a small box that had a knife in it and handed me the pocket knife. It's not every day that a murder suspect hands over a potential murder weapon directly to the police. But sure enough, that's exactly what happened here. Holly even offered up a little bag for the evidence. Do you want a bag? Are you saying I can have it? Yes. Oh, okay.
Um, yeah, if you get a Ziploc bag, I'll take it. I was almost speechless because it shocked me. I think that she wanted to show me that she was trying to be cooperative and that by showing her cooperation that maybe I would stop talking to her. I think it's probably one of those things that for many years she looked over her shoulder, always wondering when somebody was going to come try and talk to her about this case. And enough time had passed that she was starting to feel comfortable.
So I think I really shocked her and took her out of her element. And when you do that to people, they tend to do bizarre, there's oftentimes bizarre behavior. After receiving this knife, Detective Martin headed back to Fort Wayne and had a pathologist examine it, along with photographs of Stacey's injuries. And this pathologist stated that the knife was completely consistent with a weapon that would cause the injuries that killed Stacey.
I then immediately packaged up the knife and it was sent to the Indiana State Police lab for forensic testing. The knife was completely taken apart, down in all the nooks and crannies, it was swabbed, and no DNA for Stacey DeGrain Champ, and no DNA at all was located on this knife. DNA was a long shot, but given the pathologist's findings,
Detective Martin felt he had enough evidence to arrest Holly for murder, and Fort Wayne prosecutors agreed. In March of 2020, almost 20 years after the murder, Holly Boisvert was finally arrested for the killing of Stacey DeGrandchap.
I had Holly taken to an interview room at the Fond du Lac Police Department. I attempted to interview Holly. She was very standoffish. I saw a different side of Holly. I saw a pissed off side of Holly. She was very indignant with me and thought that I was messing with her. And she felt that people picked on her. She felt that she was the victim of everything. So after that interview, or lack thereof of an interview, Holly was transported back to the Fort Wayne Police Department.
After Holly was arrested, it didn't take long for this news to reach Stacey's cousin, Jamie McMillan.
and the rest of Stacey's family. I was ecstatic. I was speechless. It brought me back to that same day that I found out that she died. Hours later, I was saying to myself, we are going to get the person that did this. That my motivation is to see her behind bars. And that feeling of sadness, but completely overjoyed that this finally happened. It was...
amazing. I couldn't wait to call my aunt and for us to say those words. We got her. We got her. She's behind bars and she's going to stay there for a long time. Even though Holly was behind bars, the police investigation didn't stop. If anything, it only ramped up and some very important information came to light. On the night that Stacey was stabbed,
Holly had been previously dropped off at the house party by two of her friends, Whitney McGeehee and Amanda Richards. Whitney claims she never saw Holly with a knife, but apparently Amanda did. We got to the house that night and before we got there, Holly always had a knife that she carried with her. So she always kept a knife on her for protection while that night,
She took the knife with her. When we got there, she had me hold it in my purse. You know, while we were there, Whitney and I started getting, like, just a weird feeling. We were just ready to go. And we tried to get Holly, like, convince Holly to leave with us, but because Brandon was still there, Holly didn't want to leave.
This information that Amanda gave to police was a startling revelation. It was potentially first-hand testimony of someone putting a knife into Holly's hands within an hour of Stacey DeGrandchamp being stabbed to death. This, of course, begged the question.
Why did it take so long for Amanda to tell this story?
-Amanda came forward with this information. I don't know why she didn't come out with it prior. Maybe she didn't think about it. Maybe it wasn't something that really keyed in on her, or maybe she was in disbelief or didn't want to believe that something like this could happen. Maybe she was scared that, "Oh, God, I'm the one that gave Holly her knife back and led to this death." I don't know that we'll ever know truly why this information didn't get to us until so late.
Amanda's version of the events could have easily been scrutinized by a defense attorney during a trial, but that didn't change the fact that
Fort Wayne prosecutors had a pretty solid case against Holly. This was a very strong case with great physical evidence as far as a possible murder weapon that was obtained. It's consistent with the injuries. The injuries are definitely stab wounds. We have individual who is putting, you know, Amanda's putting a knife in Holly's hand just prior to the altercation. This is all very strong evidence. Initially, Holly Boisvert pleaded not guilty to killing Stacey.
But after being presented with the evidence that the state had, she eventually accepted a plea deal. As part of that agreement, Holly would finally have to admit in court that she killed Stacey DeGrandchamp. Holly took the stand and the judge asked her, do you know why you're here? And she said, yes, I was in a fight and I took a knife and I stabbed Stacey DeGrandchamp twice. He said, yes.
You stabbed her twice. Yes, I stabbed her twice, and that resulted in her death. And that's what I had been waiting to hear for so many years, was the confession that she, in fact, did kill Stacey. Even though in our minds we knew all along, but to have that confession. Stacey's family finally got some answers. And after Holly admitted to the crime, it was...
Time for her to be sentenced. Holly was very quiet in court. They asked her if she had anything to say. Holly said no. The judge then said, you know, you should apologize to the family. And she said, I'm sorry. And that's it. It was very generic. It was not heartfelt at all. I can tell you that I do not believe that Holly was truly guilty.
for what she had done. During the sentencing phase, Holly didn't do herself any favors. Despite this, and considering that she committed a murder, Holly did walk away with a pretty good deal. Holly's sentencing was 20 years behind bars, and she already had served two years in Allen County Jail before her sentencing almost, and she ended up
If she has good behavior, she will get out early. And that would practically mean that she would only have another additional eight years to serve, which is not at all serving justice in my mind. And those 20 years should have held up.
I don't feel like her serving 10 years behind bars is enough for murdering someone. Would I have liked to see her get more time? Absolutely. I would have liked to see that because I feel that it's very, it's just so unjust for Stacey and Stacey's family to know that the person who killed their loved one has been living their life for the last, you know, 20 years, just doing whatever they want to do, raised a child, and Stacey never had that.
With good behavior, Holly could be released from prison as early as 2030 and may only serve 10 years. Though that will require her to petition a parole board and Jamie intends to be there when she does, along with several other members of the family. For them, the fight continues to ensure that justice is truly done. It's worth noting that Stacey and her family aren't the only victims here.
So too are all of Stacey's friends. For example, Abby was the one who convinced Stacey to go to this party, despite Stacey's reservations. Abby also drove Stacey there. She has to live with that for the rest of her life.
I mean, I've gone this whole time trying to help my life and try and get over this. Like, anxiety and depression took years to get over. And it's still a struggle with trust. And you think somebody's your friend and they're going to have your back and they let this kind of stuff happen to you and your friends. Sure. I mean, it's hard. I get it.
Similarly, everyone who was close to Stacey during those important developmental years of high school must cope with the trauma of all of this. It's one thing to say your friend was murdered, but then to say your friend's murdered by your other friend. Right. That was one of the most messed up things I've ever had to deal with in my life. We were all so...
There are many victims in this case, and it goes without saying that nobody has suffered more than Stacey's family. They continue to feel Stacey's absence, while also always wondering what could have been.
There's a void there. There's a gap. We all feel it every holiday. There's always somebody missing. No matter how many years have passed, it's still there. Her presence needs to be there. And it's extremely unfair that it's not. We think about her all the time. I think about how many kids she would have. I think about how happy her mom would be having grandchildren, being that Stacey was her only child. And she doesn't get to do that anymore.
While Holly's confession and conviction provided Stacy's family with some relief, it doesn't change the fact that Stacy is gone forever.
As Detective Martin puts it, the idea of getting closure in a murder case is pretty much a bunch of nonsense. I say closure is a bullshit word in a murder case, and I firmly believe that. And I believe that because no one can wrap their head around or fully have closure. I always describe it to people as your life is a book. Maybe I helped write a little bit of that ending chapter and told them how and why.
answer some of the questions why and how their loved one passed away. But then they have to learn the new normal. These families have to learn what the next chapter of life is. How does it look without their loved one now that they have these answers that they've been looking for for so long? As for Stacy's family, the next chapter and subsequent chapters of life don't come with much closure, if any at all.
Not only do they have to deal with the fact that Stacey is gone, but also they are going to eventually have to argue to a parole board that Holly should stay in prison. For them, the pursuit of justice is a never-ending battle. One that they never asked to fight. On top of that, some of Stacey's family members still aren't entirely sure
that Holly was the only person responsible for Stacey's death. I feel as if, in my mind, that there may have been some type of conspiracy between friends. I do think Brandon was upset that Stacey broke up with him. I do think he was trying to get back with her.
I'm not a hundred percent certain on, on anything, but just in my own, my own mind, this conspiracy of thinking that she was brought there that night and it wasn't what she wanted to do. Just nothing made sense to me and made me believe that, that, you know, Brandon knew something more than what he's ever told the detectives. I felt like Abby knew more than what she ever told the detectives. Um, I felt like, um, Amanda handing Holly that knife that night, um,
Those are things that I did not know that has kind of come about over the last couple of years. The idea that there was a conspiracy among friends to murder Stacey seems unlikely, mainly because when Holly confessed, she did not implicate anyone else. But that's not the point. The point is that in this case, and in almost all murder cases, there will always be unanswered questions.
And because of that, closure can never truly happen. There is also another, albeit more broad takeaway from this story, which is don't take life and romance too seriously.
Life is precious and life is valuable. And don't sweat the dumb shit. Boyfriends, girlfriends will come from our lives in and out. And when you're 17 years old, that may seem like, God, this is the love of my life. But we all know that with love, there's heartbreak. And we pick up the pieces and we move on. So we can't get so engrossed in something at such a young age that it costs somebody to lose their life.
The murder of 17-year-old Stacey DeGrandchamp happened for absolutely no reason, and could have resulted in something as simple as a shouting match between two teenage girls. Maybe even a fistfight and some hair pulling in a parking lot somewhere. It never had to escalate to the point that Holly took it. Tragically, Holly did escalate it to exactly that point. A young and promising life was lost.
countless victims were made. And almost two years later, Holly Boisvert ends up in a prison cell.
Well, that's going to do it for another one. Thank you so much for joining us. We'll be right back here for Plus Members next week. By the way, the black-on-black embroidered fitted hat on our store was such a success that we made a new one. It's the white-on-white fitted hat. Go check it out. SwordAndScale.com Oh, and stay safe. ...
Hey Mike and Thornscale team.
I think this message belongs here for sure because everybody needs to know how awesome the new app looks.
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