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Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. That's tomorrow and that is it for us today and we will leave you with a... I can't do it. We'll do it live. We'll do it live! F*** it! Do it live! I'll write it and we'll do it live! F***ing thing sucks! Are there any weapons?
This is Season 11, Episode 258 of Sword and Scale, a show that reveals that the worst monsters are real. Welcome back, sassholes. So that didn't go as planned.
This episode was supposed to mark the launch of our new website and app, but when you're dealing with such a complex application that interacts with so many other applications, let's just put it this way. Technology's hard. So, we have a few more things to button up before launch, but it's coming. In the meantime, though, there's plenty of sword and scale stories available just for you. Let's get to it, shall we?
The national sales event is on at your Toyota dealer, making now the perfect time to get a great deal on a dependable new Toyota truck. Like a rugged, half-ton Tundra, workhorse by nature, powerhouse by design, the Tundra combines raw capability with premium comfort and advanced tech to fuel your wildest adventures. And with the available i-Force Max hybrid powertrain, you can take electrifying horsepower farther,
than ever before or check out the fully redesigned tacoma delivering trail dominating power and captivating style the new tacoma was born to make your off-roading dreams come true and with the new available tech this legendary truck is getting even better and when you buy a toyota truck you buy toyota dependability meaning your truck will hold its value long into the future
So visit your local Toyota dealer and check out amazing national sales event deals when you visit buyatoyota.com. Toyota, let's go places. It was June 14th, 2022 in the pristine Winter Park, Florida courthouse. Outside the sun was shining and birds were chirping as they do. But inside the air conditioned building,
A 48-year-old housewife and mother of two, Danielle Redlich, was on trial for murdering her husband, Michael. It was day four of the highly publicized trial as the judge addressed the attorneys in court. Ms. Conlon, Mr. Parnell, are you ready to proceed at this point? It's 11.20. Do you have a witness lined up ready to go now? We do, Ms. Redlich.
Daniel Redlich sat behind her defense team, wearing the same stoic face she had for the last four days. Her salt and pepper hair was twisted up into a bun on the top of her head. She got up and made her way to the witness stand. Please raise your right hand to be sworn, to be solemnly swear or affirm the testimony you're about to give. The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but. Yes, ma'am.
The judge then turned to Danielle. My understanding is that you are going to be testifying in your own defense. Is that right? Yes. Do you understand that an individual has a constitutional right not to testify? Also, you have a right to testify.
And if you decide to testify, I will read an instruction to the jury where I will tell them that they need to judge your testimony with the same weight. Well, not with the same weight, but in the same manner in which they judge the credibility of the other witnesses. Any questions about that? No. So are you prepared at this point to make a decision on whether you want to testify in your own defense? Yes, I will testify. That is your decision to testify? Yes, ma'am.
Danielle's case had become a media spectacle. Cameras were everywhere. Reporters hovered in the back row. Her children were no longer speaking to her. She had been in jail for the last three years. Her husband was dead. But Danielle was sitting on the witness stand because of what happened on January 11th of 2019. Winter Park number one, you need to leave fire and medical. Hello, Daniel. I'm here.
Danielle had called 911 at 9:28 a.m. on January 12th, claiming that her husband died the night before.
- He's 65. - Okay. - Hold on one second. - So did you find him this morning? 'Cause I know you said that you believed it happened last night. Did you see him last night? Was he okay or was? - He was not okay last night. We had altercation and he stabbed himself and I ran into the bathroom and when I came out, I tried to help him and I saw he was lying in blood. - You say he stabbed himself? - Correct, yes.
And then I tried to help him. And I woke up sitting up next to him. Uh-huh. And I've been trying to figure out what to do. Right. I got you. I'm going to get you some help, huh? According to Danielle, she and Michael had been fighting the previous evening. This was a common occurrence. Their marriage had been on the rocks for years, and it didn't help that alcohol was used as fuel to amp up the intensity of their verbal conflict.
and physical fights. Are there any weapons on scene now? A knife. A knife? Mm-hmm. So, okay, let me ask you this. So did he stab himself last night? Did he tag last night? And you just didn't know what to do? Correct, I believe so, yes. Okay. Were you out drinking? He was. He was? Yes, he was. And altercation was the night before, too, but I left the house.
Danielle and Michael had been married for 17 years and had two children together. Sawyer, who was 10, and Jaden, who was 15. On the night of Michael's murder, both kids were having sleepovers at their friends' houses.
The Redlich family lived in a beautiful Mediterranean-style home in the wealthy suburb of Winter Park. Their front yard was manicured with palm trees, lush grass, and a big circular driveway that housed three cars: a Lexus SUV, a Lexus sedan, and an Audi. Inside, the house was bright and airy. Tall white columns stood against the terracotta tile and elegant decor.
Out back there was a swimming pool and a lounge area, while across the street was a sparkling lake. Needless to say, this wasn't the kind of neighborhood the police were normally called to. I know you first said that you thought he had a heart attack. So do you think it was a heart attack or do you think it was due to the stabbing that he passed away? Probably the stabbing triggered it, I guess. I don't know. It's a shoulder wound. You say it's a shoulder wound? Right.
When the detectives arrived at the house, they found Michael lying face up on the floor in a pair of jeans and black socks. His arms were stretched out beside him like Jesus on the cross. He had a wound in his left shoulder. Michael's blood had dried around his body and on the white walls, but the majority of it had been mopped up with hand towels that were crumbled beside him.
There were thick smears of blood throughout the home leading from Michael into the master bedroom and through the hallways. All the trails led to a crusty pile of bathroom towels in the front entrance next to a mop and bucket. It was as though someone had tried desperately to clean the crime scene, then had just thrown in the towel, literally. So it's just you and him here right now, right?
The large serrated knife that Danielle said Michael had stabbed himself with was still on the kitchen floor covered in blood.
There were three more bloody knives in the kitchen sink. And what time do you think you all had this altercation and you stabbed him? I think it started around 10.30. He was actually choking me and trying to suffocate me first. I actually went for the knife. And he was screaming, what are you going to do? He grabbed it. That's when he did it. He made a motion and I ran out of the room. Because I'm on probation, I was scared to death.
Danielle was on probation for battery on an officer and disorderly intoxication after she got in a fight with a friend on an Uber ride last January. When the police arrived on the scene, Danielle was drunk and she fought when the officers tried to restrain her. The embarrassing scene ended after she bit a police officer in the hand. Danielle had been on probation for a year.
And when did you go back to check on him? Did you stay there? No, I stayed in the bathroom for a while and he came to the bathroom door and it was closed and he was screaming stuff about how he was going to send me to jail and all that stuff. I was just trying to stay away from him. I heard some moaning and stuff and I was scared. I finally went to check on him and I could see that he was out of it. And I was slipping on his blood and it was heavily, heavily bloody. So I tried to
She was out of it. I think he was already... I was trying to give him mouth-to-mouth. Is there a reason why you didn't call last night? Yeah. I'm on probation, and I was really afraid, and I didn't think anybody would believe me. And I was just trying to get him to wake up. And I was exhausted after I was fell asleep sitting up next to him. And I was...
When the police walked in, they first saw Danielle. She was wearing black and her dark brown hair was wild and messy. She had vomit and blood all over her shirt. Danielle wasn't lying. She had tried to hurt herself.
Danielle had hacked deep, jagged cuts into her wrists, but she had cut across, not down. Her wounds would not be fatal. Danielle was taken to the hospital to tend to her wrists and the various bruising and marks all over her. She said she didn't want to speak with the police unless she had a lawyer present, and she was let go. A few days later, the police would be back, though, for a buckle swap.
They weren't buying Danielle's story. They believed that she was the one who murdered Michael and now they were back at her door with warrants. Right now, we have a search warrant for your DNA, so I'm just going to read that to you, okay? Danielle listened as the officer read off her sheet of paper for five long minutes. Then...
She got frustrated. Property seized under this warrant shall be brought before a court and in proper jurisdiction to be disposed of. I did not murder my husband. Please, I don't understand this jargon. According to law, upon request. Am I clear that you're saying... What don't you understand? You're saying the saliva, when I tried to... When there was resuscitation done, that that's second-degree murder? No, I am collecting saliva standards from you, as is in this warrant for...
A few days after that, the cops were back, and this time they arrested Danielle for second-degree murder and tampering with evidence in the death of her husband, Michael Redlich. But it would be years before Danielle found herself on the witness stand. By that time,
Her name would be infamous, and rumors about her and Michael would fly from their upper-crust social circles and into the bloodthirsty media who were ready to eat her alive.
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but then changed her story and said that he stabbed himself when they were in a fight. When the police showed up at the couple's prestigious home in Winter Park, they discovered Danielle covered in vomit and blood. She had cut open her wrists and tried to kill herself. She was rushed to the hospital and Michael was pronounced dead at the scene. Danielle and Michael had been married for almost
20 years, but their relationship had started in a very unconventional way. When did you first meet Michael? I think it was like 1996. I was about 22, 23 years old. What were the circumstances of you meeting him? Well, I actually met him through my mother. He and I came together under kind of unique circumstances, but prior to us, he was actually dating my mother. Yeah, you heard that right. Danielle met her husband, Michael,
when he was dating and eventually married to her mother. So when they fell in love, Michael was Danielle's stepfather. So was Michael your stepfather at one point? I guess technically, however, I didn't look at him that way. So how do we go from stepdad to something else? My mother and my stepfather had split up after 20 years and my mom met Michael and they started dating.
Michael married Danielle's mother knowing she was terminally ill.
to help her out with insurance so she would be fully covered through her cancer treatments. So after my mother passed, the two younger children were in high school, my younger brother and sister, and they were living in the home with Michael and my mother.
And so after she passed, my younger brother went to live with my stepfather back with him. And asked me if I wanted to move in that he would continue to rent the home that they were renting so that my sister could at least finish another year of high school where she was. And so I agreed and I was working and going to school at the time and
Michael had such great insurance and income because he was a high-powered executive handling corporate sponsorship and sales for various major teams all over the country.
He traveled a lot and was well-respected in his field of expertise. Danielle moved in to help with her younger siblings and ease the transition after her mother's death. That's when the romance started between her and Michael. I was working and he was encouraging me professionally and sort of became friendly and was very supportive. And, you know, there's time of loss for both of us and we sort of bonded.
And eventually it turned into a romantic relationship. I was going to school and working part-time at one point or at that time. And he started coming up to the place that I worked. I was a bartender at night. So he started coming up to all the shifts that I was working and just visiting with me.
And after that, he started inviting me to do things, more things together. And we sort of, and I grew to enjoy it. And he was kind of worldly and smart. So these are new and exciting things for me. So at some point, it turned into a romantic relationship. They lived together and played house while Danielle took care of her sister. But the relationship was kept behind closed doors. Then Michael got a big job offer.
Well, he was pretty ambitious with his career at that point. He had practiced law for 13 years and went back to school later in life to pursue his passions in sports. And so that's when he started to work for, you know, the Cleveland Browns and the Cavaliers and professional sports teams. And he was looking for other opportunities and he was moving up in the industry pretty quickly. So there was an opportunity that...
came upon him to move with the Memphis Grizzlies, an NBA team in Memphis, Tennessee. And he was excited about it and he actually got the job and it was a big move up for him. At the time when he got the Memphis job, were you guys living together? We were. He asked me to move with him. But at that point, I hadn't really disclosed to my family that we were actually seeing each other. So I wasn't
entirely comfortable with it, you know, just because he had been with my mother and it was just kind of a little bit weird. So I told him no, that I wanted to also stay back with my family. My entire family lived in Cleveland, so I wasn't willing to do that at that point. Danielle wasn't ready to admit to her family what was going on between her and Michael, but they were still seeing each other and their bond grew deeper, if not
He was buying me plane tickets just about every weekend. And so he was flying me to Memphis and showing me around. And so I think after a year of that,
Danielle and Michael began their life together.
Leaving the memory of being stepfather and stepdaughter back in Cleveland, where I guess things like that belong. Danielle's family didn't take the news that well and had a hard time seeing the two together, understandably. The sister that was living with us, I think she took it kind of hard, which I don't blame her. I think people were a little bit shocked, disappointed.
When they moved to Memphis, Michael began working as the vice president of corporate sales for the basketball team, the Memphis Grizzlies. Go Grizzlies. There, he reconnected with an old college friend, Anthony Barone Jr., who was an executive at the franchise. Anthony and Michael went way back. Redlich was a playwright, a cabbie.
A lawyer, went back to grad school at 42, so he was kind of a free spirit. He was dating a trapeze artist in grad school in 96. I mean, he was just kind of an out there guy. Everyone knew the scandalous story of how Danielle and Michael got together. And even Anthony wondered if they ever talked about it or if this strange beginning was part of the tension in their relationship. Because it was no secret that their union was filled with tension.
I wouldn't ever paint a picture that they were just hunky-dory all the time. They were, it was, whenever he showed up, you were going to hear a story about them in a battle about something.
I think they went to counseling together, if I'm not mistaken. And I would always bring it up to him that, "Are you guys addressing the issue that that was your mom?" And he's like, "No, we don't talk about that because they kind of explained that away and justified it in their own heads." And I'm like, I was always shocked to him. I'm like, "Why are you wondering what the root of the issue is? If she has anger issues, there might be something there with that." And he's like, "No, it's not that, I promise."
Michael confided in Anthony about Danielle's anger. But Anthony also got to witness the couple's volatility firsthand. She just was very...
very high strung, not even high strung, it was just a quick trigger where she'd get pissed. I saw it about two, I saw it two times where she got really pissed and started laying into him where I had not seen that side of her. And it stood out to me. That's the only reason I'm bringing it up because I remember and she would start MFing him
And then he would try to walk away from it and just leave it alone. In front of me, he never really snapped and started getting salty with her. But Anthony recounted one time when a bunch of colleagues were meeting at a hotel for drinks and Michael showed up after a fight with Danielle. The car pulled up on the sidewalk.
He almost crashed into the place. He came into the restaurant. And he's like, it's bad. I look over and he's standing in the freaking doorway. And he's got like a big scratch, like a claw marks across his right face.
And I walked over, I'm like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, what are you doing?" I took him outside, his car's on the sidewalk. He goes, "She was throwing plates and she started hitting me, so I had to hit her." That's what he said. And I said, "What are you doing?" So I took him across the street. There's a hotel called the Peabody. He said, "You need to get a room and sit here for a minute." So I called Danielle, she wouldn't answer. And a couple days later, I checked in and he downplayed it. Said everything was fine, but at the time he had told me
She was throwing plates across the room and breaking stuff, trying to hit him. Michael told Anthony that after Danielle threw the plates and scratched his face, he hit her in self-defense. He said, I hit her back, I punched her, I had to defend myself. I said, what are you talking about? He said, she came at me after throwing the plates and hit me with one of them and I scraped my face. He said, he did this, she did this, he pointed at his face. And I was like, dude, what are you doing? This isn't healthy. Both Danielle and Michael were drinkers and
Most of their fights escalated when alcohol was involved. What a surprise. Mike drank a ton. He would drink a bunch all the time. But in this setting, it didn't seem like he was in the foggy area where I've seen him in the past. I would stop by his house and see Danielle and him and the kids on like a Sunday when I'd see my folks and they'd both be sitting there boozing in big gulp cups.
with, you know, just mixed drinks. And I'm like, geez, you guys are, you know, they're just sitting there drinking while watching games or something and it's just them. Nobody else is over. No one disputed that Michael was a heavy drinker, but according to Danielle, it was the alcohol that caused his anger to spike, especially when they were in Memphis and he was under a lot of work stress. At times it would escalate. I started to notice that, um,
He would get physical when he was angry, very angry, or if he drank too much. A lot of manhandling kind of thing. To outsiders, Danielle was just as crazy as Michael. She had her own issues and anger. But behind closed doors, she had been enduring abuse from her husband-slash-stepfather for years. Their relationship was incredibly toxic, but neither of them could let it go.
Anytime that Danielle was seriously hurt by Michael, she forgave him. She became conditioned to accept his outbursts. After all, she'd been with him since she was 23 years old. He was her stepdad, and this was her first true love. One particular incident, I remember he was coming home from work every day. He was pretty agitated. Something was really bothering him. I just remember that it had to do with something with two of his bosses.
Michael would come home in a huff, angrily start drinking alone and always skip dinner with Danielle. She got fed up with it and one night snapped back. When I said that, he got irritated and said, what are you mad because I don't want to have dinner with you? And I said, well, yeah, kind of at this point, because I said, how's the wallowing working out for you? He said something sarcastic. And I went to head to the door to leave and he was near the door and he moved in front of the door and
and I tried to shove past him and I feel like at that point he just, he raises his fist and he just crossed me in the face and I feel like, I don't know, like he took out every frustration that he had had that week on me and the next thing I remember was actually laying in his lap and he was stroking me and he was apologizing, he was crying and
After the storm had calmed, Danielle noticed that her tooth was chipped.
And her face was a wreck. And so I told him, I said, I need to go to the doctor. And my face was hurting. And he said, let me just take care of you tonight. We'll talk about that. And so I did. And the next day I called off work. I told him that I got into a car accident. He went into work and he came home early. And he said that he had talked to the team doctor, Dr. Azar, and that he was going to take a look at my face. And was that done?
It was. Did you meet with the doctor? Yeah, and I said, you told him what happened? And he said, well, yeah. And I said, he goes, and I was so surprised because I didn't, and he said, well, if you, if you go to a regular or another doctor, I could possibly go to jail over this. So did you, for this incident that you described, did you tell anybody what had happened at that time?
No. Did you tell the doctor how it had occurred? No. What is your mindset is what I'm asking for now, Lavin? Well, there was still a lot of good. I didn't feel like that was overpowering it. And like I said, he was apologetic and I felt like it was still worth being invested. Did you love him? I did, yes. Danielle was trapped in a way she didn't even realize. Let's be clear. No amount of abuse in a relationship is acceptable. None. Zero. But...
Danielle justified Michael's physical outbursts towards her because they were few and far between. There was always an imbalance of power between the couple, as you might expect given its origin. Danielle had been Michael's stepdaughter, and though she never thought about him as her father figure per se, he was 20 years older.
He paid all the bills. He had all the life experience. He purchased the home. He funded their existence. Danielle and Michael had gone to Memphis in hopes of starting a fresh life as a couple. But the unhealthy way in which their relationship began would always loom above them and create sort of a sick power dynamic. Danielle would always be his stepdaughter, no matter what.
a perpetual child in the relationship. In 2004, things changed drastically for Danielle and Michael when their daughter Jaden was born. This seemed to bring some joy to the couple and they finally tied the knot after becoming a family of three. I would say that it was really good. Right after my daughter, we were both just ecstatic over our little girl and things were going pretty well. We were...
Kind of big fish sort of thing. I was working with a radio group and he was the Memphis Grizzlies. And it was kind of exciting. Did it stay that way? No, it didn't. No, it didn't last to the point where it was, you know, without tension problems. After eight years with the Grizzlies, Michael was passed over for a big promotion and he was pissed. That same year, Danielle gave birth to the couple's son, Sawyer. And after that, Michael's drinking stopped.
ramped up as his resentment towards work grew stronger. He was agitated and just preoccupied with issues, so mean at times, less attentive and that kind of thing. Then the physical abuse started again. And now Danielle wasn't afraid to fight back. She'd push him, punch him and throw things. She never backed down. Michael always won.
Soon Michael changed positions and they moved to California. Then they went to Indiana. But with every new city there was a short honeymoon of bliss and newness until the old problems came back. Their sex life had become non-existent and Danielle began to wonder what was going on. That's when Michael revealed to her that he'd been seeing a doctor to deal with his erectile issues.
He was afraid she'd leave him over this, and he was embarrassed, especially since he was 20 years older than Danielle. He'd been on Viagra for years, and it hadn't been working. Danielle assured Michael she wasn't going anywhere, and they decided to go to the doctor together to figure this out. They were going to give him testosterone injections to bring up his testosterone levels, and I guess there was some new groundbreaking sort of medicine that he could use
I guess there were like injections that would help him get an erection that he would have to do himself. At home? Yes. And did he begin doing these treatments? He did, yes. How did this seem to affect both him and your relationship with him, how he's treating you?
Well, I thought it was a solution. I thought that at least the physical aspect was, you know, solved. And perhaps it was, but I think there was a mental side on his level that wasn't quite solved. Despite getting his libido back, the testosterone injections changed Michael. He wasn't the Mike that I met. His behaviors just continued, were bizarre. I think I would liken it to...
I thought it was like this kind of sophomore juvenile male type behavior where he was sort of treating me like an object. But alongside that, there was a lot of aggression and it would become hostile. Vulgar comments like I'm a piece of meat, I'm an object on his property. Some of it would be, I guess he would portray that it was kind of like lust or something. But to me, it was
It wasn't appropriate, it wasn't okay. He was getting hostile and he was actually hurting me often during these episodes. Are you saying that physically would harm you? Yes. Is this while you're being intimate or in another manner? He's being sexually aggressive, yes. Testosterone is essential for men to function properly. To be men. But we all know that, you know, with that comes other things.
The hormone helps men maintain muscle mass, bone health, and libido. As men age, their testosterone levels can decrease. And about one in five men around the age of 60 undergo this kind of treatment to help with their sex life and mental function. Testosterone therapy also has a downside.
It can cause heart attacks, strokes, and blood clots. Furthermore, injecting the hormone back into a 60-year-old man seems to be messing with the body's natural aging process. Michael had his libido back, but at what cost? He was regressing mentally and being filled with hormonal emotions and reactivity. He was going to be going out of town for a work function for the week and he
During the movie, Michael tried to make a move on his wife, but he was aggressive and drunk. She shied away. This made him angry, and he started drinking more until he passed out on the couch.
The next morning, he woke up irritated and a fight began. So I'm in my bathroom at that point and I'm brushing my teeth and we're having this conversation and the next thing I know, something hits me in the back of the head and I look and it's, there's a box of tampons on the floor and I said, did you just hit me with that? And he said, yeah, are you calling me a...
And I said, no, what are you talking about? And he said that I had left the box of tampons on his side of the sink. What was I trying to say? And this is just was very strange to me. And I said, I don't know. Those were just this happened to be there. I didn't do that on purpose. Didn't clean up the bathroom. Sorry. And I was upset. And I said, maybe you are acting like that. And I walked away from him.
That's when Danielle felt Michael's arms grab her around her throat. And basically, it was choking me out. I started to pass out. I remember falling and I remember thinking to myself, is he, oh my God, is he going to kill me? And I remember reaching up and I fell to my knees. And the next thing I know, I was sort of aware and I was looking up at him and he was just staring at me with this like surprised expression on his face.
And he just, he reached out his hand and he said, I'm sorry. And I just crawled away from him into a corner. And I just, I was really frightened at that point. This is when things between Danielle and Michael really start to deteriorate. Michael was extra aggressive because of the testosterone therapy. And Danielle was depressed, turning to booze to push away reality.
Then in 2012, the family moved again, and this time they found themselves in beautiful Winter Park, Florida.
Michael took a much less stressful job at the University of Central Florida along with a pay cut so he could focus on Danielle and the kids. They tried to change all the unhealthy aspects of their marriage, but the same issues kept coming back again and again as they do. He was still drinking heavily and I know that at one point we started sleeping separately because of this and he was coming into the room at night
In 2016, Danielle and Michael finally had enough.
They were sleeping in separate rooms. The kids were older and were catching on to the fighting and the drinking. There was a particular incident where he pushed me into a dresser and I fell and cut my head on the corner. And he took me to the emergency room with the kids. And I remember lying to the kids about what happened and also to the doctors in the emergency room. Why would you do that?
First of all, I didn't want the kids to know. And secondly, to avoid any kind of legal issues. Things were at an all-time low now. Michael was aggressive and drunk all of the time. Danielle was resentful and felt trapped. She started drinking more and acting out her misery on innocent parties. Remember at the top of the episode how we mentioned that Danielle was on probation when Michael was killed? Well...
She had resisted arrest after getting into a fight with a girlfriend in an Uber. Here's that friend describing the incident. I went out one night with her for a mommy night out. We went out, had a really great time. And then all of a sudden, it was like a switch after a couple drinks and very...
abusive, even verbally, even like starting swinging at me where I called Winter Park Police or actually flagged them down. And that's when you say verbally, it was actually towards, you know, not towards her. Yes, it was. What was she upset about? I don't know. It was it's just something triggered her and I don't know what it was. But that was the night she was taken away by Winter Park Police. And I think she was for three days in some
So Michael decided to move out. Danielle continued to be a full-time mom and she was also back in school. Jaden and Sawyer felt the tension between their parents growing.
Here's Jaden. Last January, my parents were on pretty bad terms because of some, you know, they always tell me they're like, you're too young to understand. So I don't know the exact reasoning yet, I guess. But my dad moved out because they were separating, but they weren't getting a divorce. So he moved out in April.
Michael's exit from the family home was short-lived. He returned in the fall and things got worse. They decided to live together but stay separated. Michael started dating another woman and Danielle got jealous.
Danielle, despite her own alcohol consumption, started attending Al Anon meetings, which is a support group for family and friends of alcoholics. She even downloaded a few dating apps of her own and started chatting with men. Things with Michael were destroyed. He was dating. Why couldn't she test the waters too? But this, all of this, was happening
under their expensive roof in Winter Park, Florida. All the decades of tension, fighting, testosterone, and alcohol were brewing like a sick stew in the walls of their multi-million dollar estate. Danielle filed for divorce. Nasty emails were exchanged. Michael screamed at Danielle in public. 911 was called more than a few times. 911, do you need police, fire, or medical? Yes, ma'am.
We need a car here at 1231 Temple Drive, Winter Park, Florida. There's a woman that's a danger to herself and to others right now. Don't throw off the gentleman that's a danger to us. Pardon me? Pardon me? Keep the address. 1231 Temple Drive, Winter Park, Florida. No! Okay, stay on the line. I'm going to have to transfer us over to Winter Park. Let me talk first when they answer, okay? You better go in the room.
Hello?
Yeah, I'm still there. He didn't give me a lot of information. He just said that there was a woman who was a danger to herself. Maybe it was their rocky, weird beginning. Or the fact that Michael had once been her stepfather and that would always create a power struggle between the two of them, no matter what. Michael had slept with Danielle's mother. I mean, how couldn't it affect their relationship?
He had loved her for years and seen her through her last days of cancer. But Danielle and Michael never talked about this. Instead, they fought, they drank, and they tried to pretend these were only things standing in the way of their happiness. Then came January of 2018. Winter Park number one, you need to leave fire and medical. Yes, ma'am. Yes. Okay. Okay. Okay.
When Danielle first called 911, she said she thought Michael had had a heart attack. Then she said he stabbed himself.
Michael had bled out from a single stab wound between his left shoulder and chest. It was a small wound, but the knife had coincidentally plunged into Michael's axillary fold, causing his basilic vein to rupture. The stab was somewhat of a bullseye. It was a million to one shot. Weird how fate does that sometimes.
According to the couple's daughter, things had been tense in the home that whole week leading up to Michael's death. But just recently, like just this week, it's been rocky again. Last year, my dad met this woman and my parents were separated at that time and that was when they were saying, okay, we're going to get a divorce. So he, I guess he was talking to this other woman and my mom like was really hurt by that and she
She had like an app on her phone, not a dating app. She told me it was for, she showed me the app. It was for like work or something because she's trying to get back into work because she hasn't had a job in a while. Some random guy was like flirting with her or something, but she didn't respond. And my dad saw that and I think that's what caused like an argument. Was that recent? Yeah, that was, I think that was like what went on this week from, that's what I'm thinking.
Through all the years of fighting and abuse, Danielle did her best to protect her children from knowing the truth. Children are innocent and don't ask to be caught up in their parents' emotional turmoil and drama. Yet they always find themselves there, somehow. The one time that I saw a mark on my dad's face was because they were arguing and my mom had a ring on.
As the police gathered information and the prosecution started to develop a case against Danielle, the public caught wind of the story and Danielle became a monster in the media.
Then one day, the police got a call from a woman who used to know Michael. I don't have the case number that I'm calling about. I'm calling about Mike Redlich's death and the arrest of Danielle Redlich. I have information that I don't know if it's relevant, but I believe that I needed to share about Mike Redlich. So if you could please give me a call back, that would be great.
Hi, this is Detective Dallas with Winter Park Police. I was trying to reach Dr. Bergen. Oh, yes, speaking. Hi, how are you, ma'am? We got your message from yesterday. Thanks for calling back. So, I was calling with information about Mike Redlich that I don't know if it's relevant or not, but I just sort of was feeling like I should be calling somebody and telling somebody, um...
So, 49 years ago when I was 13 and he was 17 and he was my sister's boyfriend in Ohio. He sexually assaulted me. It was probably rape. And I didn't tell anybody at the time. And I didn't actually tell my sister until 2013.
at which time she contacted him about it and then got an extremely threatening letter back from an attorney from him. And I just didn't know if, you know, there could have been any, you know, other sexual abuse, sexual assault, rape, and I thought I needed to report this to somebody.
It took years for Danielle's trial to begin and by that time Jaden was no longer speaking to her mother. Danielle had been in jail for years and still nobody knew the truth about what had happened on the night that Michael was killed. The couple's history of physical abuse had been kept quiet. Danielle hid secrets to protect herself, her kids, and her marriage. But now it was all about to come to the surface.
The truth would finally be told and the fate of Danielle's future was in the hands of the state of Florida. This episode is brought to you by Allianz Travel Insurance. When you're far from home, anything can happen. That's why more than 70 million American travelers trust Allianz Travel Insurance to protect their adventures. With benefits for medical emergencies and evacuations, trip cancellations, travel delays and baggage mishaps, you can travel with perfect peace of mind.
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An all-trips annual travel insurance plan can protect all your adventures for less. Get a quote at AllianzTravelInsurance.com. Danielle Redlich was on trial for the murder of her husband, Michael Redlich. Danielle had never told anyone the truth about what had actually happened the night Michael died. But now, on the witness stand and in front of the entire country, the 48-year-old housewife was about to let out her demons and allow a jury to decide her fate.
Danielle finally admitted that she did stab Michael. She was responsible for the fatal wound.
Why were you in fear for your life? Why did you think that you could die in that circumstance? Just how he had me pinned down and I couldn't breathe. And so just the look in his eye, his anger, and I couldn't get away. During the week leading up to the murder, Michael found out Danielle was texting another man. He followed her to the gap and screamed at her, accusing her of having an affair. He punched her in the face again.
while she was doing yoga in their bedroom one afternoon, giving her a black eye. Danielle and the kids had made a plan to leave via text message, which the defense lawyer read out in court. Jayden and Sawyer were scared of Michael when he drank and started tossing his alcohol down the toilet. The house was filled with tension, fear, and misery. As the family was getting ready for Sawyer's soccer game that evening,
Michael started harassing Danielle. He starts following me around the house, harassing me, more of the same type of comments. Well, not necessarily vulgar, but at that point he was threatening to take the house and leave me penniless and send me back where he found me, take the kids, and I better not come to the football game or he's going to tell everybody what a whore and bitch I am, what I did. Danielle started packing her son's football bag and
then hid in the closet to escape the screaming. That's when Michael came in and snatched Danielle's phone from her hands. He's yelling at my son to get his uniform on. In the meantime, he takes my phone and walks out the front door with it. What do you do? Do you follow him? Yes. And what happens at the front door? Follow him. I said, Mike, I need my phone. Give me my phone. You know, and he's refusing. And he says, no, I'll just take it with me and throw it in the lake if I feel like it. So...
The tension faded as Sawyer walked out into the driveway. Michael and Sawyer went to his football game and Danielle showed up later to watch as well. Both the kids went to friends' houses and Michael and Danielle found themselves home alone. Michael poured himself a vodka and stared at his wife across the kitchen island.
He says, "Aren't you afraid to be home alone with me without the kids?" When you hear that comment, what goes into your mind? Here we go. And I said, "Actually, as a matter of fact, yes. We're going to have to go back to our old arrangements then." By old arrangements, what do you mean? Living separately. How does he respond to that? He's just staring at me. He's not really saying anything at that point. And then I make a comment that he looks really crazy and disturbing. Just looking at me, he goes, "Where are you going to go? Are you going out?"
And I said, I'm going to go get something to eat. And he said, well, I'm going out to see what kind of women I can pick up. Okay. Is there any more conversation or do you leave? Then I leave. Where do you go? McDonald's. When Danielle got home with her burger and wine, Michael burst into the kitchen. He swaggered over her, snatched her phone and her sandwich, then took a big bite. And then he spits the food at me. Michael started yelling about the guy Danielle had been texting.
She got up and retorted that maybe she would start seeing him. I walked, going to walk through the kitchen and I'm turning to throw the bag of food onto the center island and that's when he comes up behind me and grabs me. I just shift to the left and I trip up on my feet and I fall to the ground and then I feel something hit me in the back of the head.
I was on my knees, so I was always coming up. He grabbed me by the collar, and I felt our heads collide. And at that point, I grabbed the center island, and I reach up to pull myself up to face him this way. And that's when he takes his right hand, so he grabs me here and slams me down onto the center island counter. Danielle had been here before, at the mercy of Michael's hands and his will.
Michael pushed Danielle's head into the counter and held her down. She was stuck. And he cocks his fist back. I can see him. And he's acting like he's going to punch me in the face. And instead he comes down and he grinds his fist into my face and then puts his hands over my, both his hands over my hand and my nose. And he's pressing as hard as he can, smashing my nose and my face.
Danielle was getting short of breath under the weight of Michael's body and his fingers stuck in her nose. She couldn't move. All that she had free was her arm. I've got a free arm here and the drawer in front of me is the only thing I can do. And I know that there's items in there. What's in that drawer? Ladles, knives. What do you find in that drawer? A knife. A knife.
- Pulled the knife out and I don't know if he saw it, but he released my head so I'm able to move. - Go ahead. - He says, "What are you gonna stab me?" And I take the knife and I position it and face it toward him. He immediately just goes for my chin and points me back and I stabbed him at that point. - How were you positioned at the point of stabbing him? - Basically on the back of the island, pinned by him. - At that point, are you able to get out? - After I stabbed him, yes.
Danielle swung the knife and punctured one stab wound into Michael's shoulder. A hole in one, some might say. Then, she dropped the knife, ran upstairs, and hid in the master bathroom. She sat there for a moment, praying Michael wouldn't follow her. As Danielle tried to think of what to do next, she could hear Michael yelling her name and walking up the stairs. She didn't move. I was just hoping and praying he wasn't coming in there, but also...
Danielle sat there, by herself. Michael's calls to her got quiet.
She wasn't sure if Michael was waiting for her or gone from the house, so she just sat there, waiting, working up the nerve to make her next move. She didn't hear anything for about 20 minutes, so she slowly opened the bathroom door. That's when she saw blood. When you come out of the bathroom, what do you see? I see blood on the floor. Well, I'm startled by it. Why are you startled by what you see on the ground? Because it's blood, and it was alarming, and it was quite a bit...
Danielle slowly followed the blood trail down the stairs to the living room where she saw her husband lying on his back. I'm just looking at him and I'm trying to figure it out. And at that point, I was thinking, oh my gosh, did he die? I put my ear and my hands on his chest to see if I can hear or see if he's breathing. Danielle lifted Michael's shirt and saw the stab wound. Did this kill him or did he have a heart attack? I didn't know what was going on.
Danielle frantically searched the house for her phone. When she finally found it, she tried to call 911 but dialed the number twice and it didn't connect. So she panicked. The gravity of what had happened sunk in and she started giving Michael CPR. She hovered over his body and cried, thinking about the last 20 years together. Her kids, their family, their life, everything. I just, I think I just made a series of really bad decisions at that point.
How had it all ended here? Her brain was in a fog. She reread text messages from her kids. She deleted any exchanges she had with Michael and then deleted the texts with the man they had been arguing about. She tried to wipe up the blood and gave up. She cried and hugged Michael until she passed out when she woke up.
The Florida sun was shining through the French doors in their living room. Michael was turning purple. I was thinking about my kids, like I said, and I thought, you know, maybe it's just better that I go with him. And so then I googled, you know, how to slit your wrists, and that's what I attempted to do at that point. It took one long night and a failed suicide attempt before Danielle finally called 911.
Michael was long gone. Her wrists were open wounds. The house was a murder scene. This is how their marriage would end. This was it. Michael was a well-respected and well-liked executive in the sports world. Danielle's trial was very public. Michael's colleagues and friends all stood strong and tried to preserve his legacy by throwing doubt at Danielle's credibility.
They slagged her in the media and asked that justice be served. But these work friends didn't know what happened inside the Redlich house. No one did, except for Danielle and Michael. Even their children were protected from the whole truth. The jury deliberated for just over two hours before coming back with their verdict. Okay, ladies and gentlemen, my understanding is that you have reached a verdict. Is that correct? Yes.
- Okay, would you please hand the verdict forms to the deputy, please? - State of Florida versus Danielle Justine Redler. Verdict as to count one, we the jury find the defendant not guilty. Verdict as to count two, we the jury find the defendant guilty of tampering with physical evidence as charged in the information, so say we all, signed juror's batch number 283, four person, dated at Orlando, Orange County, Florida on the 17th day of June, 2022.
Danielle was found not guilty of murder, but convicted of tampering with evidence. The judge sentenced her to a year of probation and she got credit for time served in prison. Danielle would walk out of the courtroom a free woman, but no smile could be seen on her face. She had lost Michael. Her kids were no longer in her custody and her daughter had cut off all ties. The Redlich family was shattered. But weren't they...
always kind of broken? Danielle's trial was highly publicized. Her testimony was watched by millions of people all over the country, and one comment seemed to repeat itself over and over. Viewers were shocked at how credible Danielle was on the stand. They empathized with her. They believed her.
Unlike the dramatic testimonies of Amber Heard or Jodi Arias, Danielle was calm, reserved, and completely honest. She didn't try to make herself look innocent. She told the truth about her own shortcomings no matter how bad they made her look. Commenters said that when they first read about Danielle in the media, they thought she was guilty for sure. But after hearing her tell her story,
They were transformed. There was no doubt that this woman had endured decades of abuse and that she was trapped in a marriage that was headed for disaster. Believe all women is a dangerous precedent to set, I think for obvious reasons. But so is believe all men. Danielle's case is a perfect example of why due process is so important in this country.
Why it shouldn't be replaced with a fucking hashtag on Twitter or X or whatever the fuck it's called. When someone is found guilty of a crime, we must give them the chance to tell their story to a jury of their peers rather than the rabid social media landscape of literal vultures. We must listen to the evidence.
We must think critically for ourselves and go over the facts with care. I know it must be sounding like a different language, the things that are coming out of my mouth, but please try to listen and try to fucking understand. We must judge the defendant accordingly. We must seek truth instead of our internal biases created by marketing campaigns meant to
sell us more beer or maple syrup or whatever else they want to sell. Nothing about the Redlich family was conventional. Not the way it began, certainly not the way it ended. But that doesn't change the fact that Danielle was a battered woman. Michael's death was a result of self-defense. And absolutely nothing about the way this story ended is fair.
but what about life ever truly is? All right. Well, that's going to do it for another one. Thanks so much for joining us. Uh, over the coming weeks, there may be a few issues. Uh, the site, uh, may experience a few intermittent problems. And we ask you to please be patient because, you know, we're doing stuff in the background to launch this new thing. So, uh, just be patient with us. Please try not to overwhelm our support staff, which is already overwhelmed. And, uh,
We'll launch soon, right? Be patient. Stay safe. Hey, Mike. It's Rachel from Dayton, Ohio. Just wanted to say, do not get rid of our phone messages until you play mine. Because I've been listening for six years and still haven't had my voice on the podcast.
Also, you better not fuck up this TV show because I'm really, really, really looking forward to it. Keep doing what you're doing. Love ya. Bye.
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