Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
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Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. Excuse me? I'm making a fool out of myself? Yeah, because I didn't do shit. I'm making a fool out of myself? I think you are. I think you better stand up and look at the flipping meter above. It's the gold standard. The top of its game. In the golden age of podcasting. In the golden age of true crime.
This is Season 10, Episode 245 of Sword and Scale. A show that reveals that the worst monsters are real. ♪♪
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The national sales event is on at your Toyota dealer, making now the perfect time to get a great deal on a dependable new Toyota truck. Like a rugged, half-ton Tundra, workhorse by nature, powerhouse by design, the Tundra combines raw capability with premium comfort and advanced tech to fuel your wildest adventures. And with the available i-Force Max hybrid powertrain, you can take electrifying horsepower farther and
than ever before or check out the fully redesigned tacoma delivering trail dominating power and captivating style the new tacoma was born to make your off-roading dreams come true and with the new available tech this legendary truck is getting even better and when you buy a toyota truck you buy toyota dependability meaning your truck will hold its value long into the future
So visit your local Toyota dealer and check out amazing national sales event deals when you visit buyatoyota.com. Toyota, let's go places. About 100 miles west of Yellowstone National Park and just across Wyoming's state border sits the mid-sized and very typical western American city of Idaho Falls, Idaho.
If you've ever driven through that part of the United States or just about anywhere in America, Idaho Falls would probably feel pretty similar to you. Among the modest residential areas and mostly white population, Idaho Falls is pretty much a collection of well-known fast food restaurants, gas stations with convenience stores, and car dealerships. You know, like most of America. Quite boring when you really think about it.
As for the crime rate, Idaho Falls doesn't have much to brag about. The city has considerably more crime than the US national average, which is one of the reasons why they have a state police force as well as a local police department. Crime and policing in this city have been handled by these two departments for many years.
And back in January of 1997, several detectives at the Idaho Falls Police Department were hard at work questioning a young man named Christopher Tapp. I mean, I'm going to be straight up and truthful with you. If I did anything wrong about this, I would say, but I do not know. That's honest truth. I'm not lying. I'm not going to shave his ass. He's not even trying to save my ass anymore. It's just going to bring out the truth.
At the time of this interview, Christopher Tapp was 20 years old, and he was mostly known among his friends as a somewhat goofy, fun-loving, couch-surfing pothead. You know the type. To just about everyone else, Chris was known as a river rat. Running directly through the center of Idaho Falls is the Snake River,
a major multi-state river that earns its name thanks to its S-like shape. Back in the late 1990s, many Idaho Falls teenagers and young adults used to meet up at specific places near this river. They socialized, drank beer, smoked weed, and did all kinds of things, including deciding what kind of trouble they planned to get into on any given night.
To the locals, these young adults became known as the River Rats, and Chris Tapp was one of them. Yet, when the police questioned Chris in January of 1997, they weren't interested in his riverside activities. Instead, they had questions about a very serious crime that involved a young woman named Angie Dodge.
On June 13th, 1996, Angie Dodge was found dead in her apartment on I Street in Idaho Falls, Idaho. Angie was partially dressed and had multiple incision wounds and lacerations on her neck, severing all major muscles, arteries, and veins of the neck. This incision nearly decapitated Angie. There was also a stab wound to Angie's chest and breast area that entered the chest wall.
Angie's death was ruled a homicide and was determined based on the state of undress and the semen on Angie's body that she had been raped prior to the murder. Sad wounds on Angie's right hand showed that she had tried to defend herself from her attacker. Angie Dodge was born in December of 1977, and throughout her short life, she towered over her friends.
By age 16, Angie was 6 feet tall and was often ridiculed because of her height. Because of this, Angie developed some thick skin and became somewhat of a defender against bullies. Angie was known to protect her friends and stand up for them if she saw they were being bullied. In other aspects, Angie was a typical teenager and pretty well liked. Like Christopher Tapp, she was also known as a river rat.
But she never had any issues with the law, nor was she known to be a troublemaker. In 1995, Angie graduated from Idaho Falls High School with honors. She then continued her education at Idaho State University for a short time. By 1996, Angie had moved out of her parents' house into a two-story apartment. But she was only there for three weeks when something horrific happened to her.
In June of that year, two of Angie's coworkers found Angie dead on her bedroom floor after becoming concerned that she didn't show up for work. Angie had been brutally stabbed to death. She was only 18 years old. After Idaho Falls police investigators arrived on the scene, it was determined that Angie had also been raped just before she was killed.
As expected, when this news reached Angie's family, they took it pretty hard, and none more so than Angie's mom. The last night I saw her, she was at my house. My last words to her were, I love you. I held her in my arms, and never again did I ever get able to hold her again. As Angie's mom and her other family members mourned,
Idaho Falls homicide detectives worked the case. For them, this was a big deal. Violent murders like this didn't typically happen in the area, and the department was not accustomed to investigating such a complex and high-profile crime. Nonetheless, after some preliminary evidence was collected and several police interviews were conducted, the detectives formed a theory.
They believed that multiple people participated in the crime and that Angie's death was not caused by a lone killer. Science, however, was telling them a different story. When the autopsy was performed, semen was found on Angie's body. DNA testing revealed that this semen belonged to only one person.
Unfortunately, the DNA did not match anyone in the existing criminal databases. Investigators also took DNA samples from dozens of potential suspects, but none came back as a match. By December of 1996, six months had passed since Angie was killed, and Idaho Falls detectives were no closer to solving this crime than they were on the day that Angie died.
The leads had started to dry up, and the pressure to solve this crime was only building. Then, in January of the following year, police seemingly got the tip they needed. About 400 miles south of Angie's hometown, in Eli, Nevada, a young man was arrested for raping a woman at knife point. That man was 20-year-old Ben Hobbs, and...
Shortly before his arrest, Ben was a resident of Idaho Falls. Even more interesting, Ben was a river rat and was pretty close with Angie Dodge. So close, in fact, that he even attended her funeral. How did you know Angie? She was a very good friend of mine. When was the last time you were with her? Three nights before she was killed. I was at her house. Three nights before she was killed.
When questioned, Ben admitted that he had visited Angie's apartment once, but that visit was days before she was killed. While sticking to that story, Ben adamantly denied having any involvement with Angie's murder. Yet, when the police questioned Ben's good friend, Christopher Tapp,
they were told a completely different story. Then you started talking about what he did last night. What did he tell you? He said he did something and he went over to Angie's house. You know, I just asked him why he went over there. He said he wanted to try, you know, talk. Which I guess was alright. They were friends before, why couldn't they still be friends? So he said he went over there and talked with her. I said, "Oh really?" And then he said he did it and I couldn't understand. Looked at him and went, "Huh?" I couldn't understand what he was saying.
Initially, Chris Tapp denied having any knowledge of Angie's murder, but after the cops pressed him, he eventually confessed that Ben Hobbs admitted to the crime.
As detectives demanded more details, Chris became noticeably emotional and upset. I don't know who said next year. I understand. Try to do your best. I mean, that was a great, that was great what you just told me. That's all I can do. That's all we're asking. What was the second? You just told me you got it over and over again. I didn't ask where, you just told me.
Chris denied having any knowledge of Ben's motives, but again, he eventually walked back that statement. According to Chris,
The reason that Ben killed Angie was because Angie had told Ben's wife that Ben was cheating on her. What was the deal between him and Angie? What was it that really pissed him off? I know he had an event too. The only thing I ever understood or what I comprehended, let's put it that way, was that Angie was talking to Deanne because Angie was the one that was protesting that Ben was sleeping around on Deanne. As detectives questioned Chris, they clearly began to suspect that
that he knew a lot more about this murder than he was letting on and that he may have even witnessed it did you hear a scream or anything like that I wasn't there I wish I mean I wish I would I would have stopped it I wasn't just take me what do you think happened I don't know how I got in I mean give me a scenario what do you think
He probably knocked on the door. I don't know. This is how come I know you're involved more than what you've told me, okay? Okay. You gave yourself away, believe it or not. All right. Consciously, you didn't know you gave yourself away. Right. But you did. Okay. Because do you know what? Your eyes and your body...
do you know what what do you think your body's trying to tell you let it all go exactly and why do you think you're going through the things that you are it's like your body's saying look i'm not having fun and it's starting to it gave you away in an attempt to get him to tell the whole truth chris was offered an immunity agreement this agreement protected chris from prosecution with the conditions that chris told the truth
and that he didn't rape Angie or participate in the murder. Chris accepted this agreement, and with his protection in place, he admitted that he was with Ben when Angie was killed. According to Chris, in the early morning hours of June 13, 1996, he and Ben were smoking pot and driving around Idaho Falls when Ben suggested that they pay Angie a visit.
Apparently, Ben wanted to confront Angie about the things she revealed to Ben's wife, namely his infidelity. Did she come and answer the door already? Yeah. Did she just go in and what? She came to the door. And do you remember what she was wearing? No, I don't. And what was the conversation at the door? Did she say something? Did Ben say something? Did you say something? What was the conversation? We said, hi, what the hell are you doing here? Okay. Ben said he wanted to talk.
Chris explained that Ben convinced Angie to let them into her apartment. And not long after they walked inside, Ben and Angie started arguing. Go to a different room or, you know, what happened in there? What did the conversation take place in there? It was just basically, you know, just talking. Did it seem like it was a heated argument or was it fairly calm? It was a little bit of both. It started off halfway decent. Then, you know, words started to fly.
I guess, started to realize. Right. Starting to get in each other's face. Just screaming and yelling at each other. According to Chris, the argument between Ben and Angie turned into a shouting match. And before Chris could even realize what was happening, Ben pulled a knife from his pocket and began cutting Angie, which caused her to fall to the ground. Was he on top of her cutting her? Was he beside her when he was cutting her? Where was he at when he was cutting her?
Chris claimed that after Angie fell to the floor, Ben climbed on top of her and continued stabbing her. Shocked and terrified by what he was seeing, Chris decided to flee the apartment. Chris explained that he ran for several blocks until he got winded.
Then he decided to go back to the apartment to check on Angie. After seven months of investigation,
The police finally seemed to have what they needed, a witness to the murder. Armed with Chris Tapp's confession, Idaho Falls detectives traveled to Nevada, where Ben Hobbs was sitting in jail for allegedly raping a different woman. When the detectives questioned Ben, they didn't mince words. You're familiar with Chris Tapp? Yeah. I hate to say it, but he's the one I don't love about killing people.
I had nothing to do with it though. So how can they be guilty of something? And how would he know what I did, what I didn't do? Ben, right now, the only way that we can help you is if you are cooperative with us and you tell us the truth about everything. As far as the night that Angie was killed, what can you tell us where you're at? Where were you at? What were you doing? The only thing I can remember about the night Angie was killed, I was down at the river
And I saw Angie. I didn't say a word to her. In response to the detective's accusations, Ben claimed that he had no ill will towards Angie and that he had no reason to hurt her. He explained that he was unaware of anything that Angie may have said to his wife and that he didn't have anything to do with Angie's murder. Why would Chris start trying to find me for this? I don't know. It's a good question. It's something I would like to know.
At this point, the police were pretty confident that they had their man. There weren't a whole lot of knife-wielding rapists in Idaho Falls, after all. And Ben was sitting in jail for that exact same behavior.
On top of that, Ben couldn't tell the police where he was on the night of Angie's murder. He explained that after he left the river, he had no memory of where he went or what he did. Not good. Okay, here's the problem we're having. Number one, we've got Chris admitting to knowing about it and implicating you in the homicide as doing it. He's got details about what happened, how you did it, and what went on.
The other problem is, is you have no alibi to where you're at or what was going on. I will tell you we have got DNA that will fully convict somebody or will fully eliminate somebody. It's going to eliminate my ass because I had nothing to do with this. Confidently, Ben provided investigators with a DNA sample.
Days later, when the results came back, it turned out that neither Ben Hobbs nor Chris Tapp were a match for the semen that was found on Angie's body. For detectives, this didn't necessarily mean that Ben and Chris weren't involved in Angie's murder. In fact, they were still pretty sure both of them had something to do with it. The DNA results only suggested that a third person must have also been involved.
In order to get to the bottom of this, the detectives re-interviewed Chris Tapp. I mean, you've done a well of a job. You really have, Chris. But we're still kind of, apparently we're still missing some pieces here. Are they big pieces? Yeah, pretty big pieces. Because, like I said, the information we just got sounds like there's probably another person involved. Was there another person that went with you in bed? No, it was just me in bed.
During another round of questioning, Chris told the police that when he and Ben went to Angie's apartment, they weren't alone. Also with them was their close friend and fellow river rat, 20-year-old Jeremy Sargis. Naturally, after hearing this,
police wanted to speak with jeremy you guys hung around uh hands you quite a bit to me she wasn't really like a hangout friend i never called her she never called me but when we saw each other it was hey what's going on you know with ben i guess he hung out there every once in a while
Jeremy, Ben Hobbs, and Chris Tapp all knew Angie Dodge, but Chris and Ben were a little closer to her than Jeremy was. According to Chris, on the night that all three of them went to Angie's apartment, things played out pretty much like he had originally explained. The major difference was that Jeremy was also there.
and jeremy was the one that brought along the murder weapon and so with uh jeremy his total involvement in this whole thing was a lot a little less than what i've done okay okay go ahead a little less than what you've done everything that you know that he was involved in everything probably with the knife okay
Chris explained that after Angie answered the door, all three of them went inside her apartment. And after a brief argument with Ben, Ben stabbed her.
Then, Jeremy and Ben violently raped Angie. Now there's some pretty sick things done to her and we have a pretty dang good idea of what some of the sick things that happened to her, okay? Apparently, you know, they made her do some stuff before she died, correct? So, what'd they make her do? Not even get her, just force her to have sex. Okay, you saw them force her to have sex. Is that correct? Okay. Who raped her? I guess a little of both. Okay, so they're both doing her?
Okay, I believe that. They start raping her, right? Both of them are doing her? Okay, so when one is on top of her, how do they rape her? They do it vaginally, they do it anally. There's a little both. Who was doing her from behind? Okay, chair was doing her from behind. Who was doing her in the front then? Okay, Ben was doing her in the front.
Okay. Who tried to have her do the oral sex? Who tried to give him a blowjob? Jer. Jer. So Jer was forcing her to give him a blowjob, is that correct? Okay. Do you recall any of them ejaculating on her? No. Okay.
Chris further explained that during the rape, Ben held a knife against Angie's neck and threatened to cut her throat unless she gave Jeremy oral sex. Angie complied, but Ben slit her throat anyway. Obviously, these accusations were pretty extreme, but detectives believed they had finally gotten the truth out of Chris Tapp. Yet when they questioned Jeremy about it,
Jeremy adamantly denied everything. I mean, Angie was not a good friend of mine. She was not anything more than an acquaintance, you know, an acquaintance that I know better than maybe my other acquaintance. I had no reason to have a positive or a negative feeling towards her. Okay, I had no reason to kill her.
What are you gonna do?
When you find out, then I don't know nothing. Well, if that is true, then... Let me go and say we're sorry for putting you in jail. Detectives pushed Jeremy pretty hard, but he never admitted to anything. And just like Ben, he freely offered up a DNA sample. A few days later, when the results came back, investigators were shocked to find that the semen on Angie's body was not a match for Jeremy Sargis's.
At the same time, Jeremy's alibi for the night of the murder checked out. He was with his girlfriend the entire night and the next morning. There was simply no way that Jeremy could have been with Ben and Chris on the night of Angie's murder. At this point, police were thinking, what the fuck? Chris Tapp had seemingly led them down a path of lies. So, once again...
Chris was brought in for another round of questioning. But now the cops were kind of pissed off. When they met with Chris this time, they demanded answers. They wanted the truth, but more than that, they wanted to put someone in prison for Angie's murder. Unfortunately, to the detriment and disgrace of their careers and to justice, they were willing to do just about anything.
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In January of 1997, 20-year-old Chris Tapp confessed to Idaho Falls Homicide Detectives that
that he witnessed two of his friends, Ben Hobbs and Jeremy Sargis, violently rape and brutally murder their friend, 18-year-old Angie Dodge. Yet, when detectives attempted to corroborate Chris' confession, they found that the male DNA on Angie's body didn't match any of them. On top of that, Jeremy Sargis had a solid alibi for the night of the murder.
For detectives, it was obvious that Chris Tapp had lied to them, which was a violation of that sweet immunity agreement that he secured for himself. As a result, Chris's immunity agreement was dissolved and the detectives were quick to confront him about his lies. So when Chris Tapp tells us things, we think, "Great, cool, that sounds pretty good. I think he may be telling us the truth this time." We go check it out and it's bogus.
The detectives were angry. They wanted answers. Again, the unidentified male DNA that was found on Angie was not a match for Ben or Chris. But that didn't necessarily mean that they didn't in some way contribute to the murder. All it meant was that there must have been another person involved. And the detectives believe that Chris Tapp knew who that person was. First of all,
More than likely, he never left the apartment. Second of all, there's definitely another person involved that you haven't told us about. Detectives spent several hours interrogating Chris, but no matter how hard they pushed him, he simply wouldn't give up the name of the third man. You know the name, Chris. You know, we know, you know the name. Chris, you know. All right. You do have a name.
Chris never provided the name of the mysterious third man, but he did make a startling confession. Chris told detectives that
He had a much more active role in the killing than he had previously admitted. According to him, Ben Hobbs and the third man threatened Chris and forced him to stab Angie Dodge in the chest. Do these guys threaten you to do something to her so that you're a full part of the crime? Yes, sir. And who does that threat? It's Ben. What does Ben say to Chris? He says to cut her, do something to her.
Based on this confession, Chris was now considered to have an active role in the murder. And given that he was refusing to provide the name of the third killer, Chris was also considered to be uncooperative. Ultimately, Chris Tapp was arrested and charged with first-degree murder and rape. As for Ben Hobbs...
He received the same charges, but aside from Chris's unreliable confession, no other evidence linked Ben to Angie's murder. Eventually, Ben's charges were dropped and the only person left holding the bag was Chris Tapp. After he was charged, Chris pled not guilty and in 1998, his case went to trial again.
During that trial, prosecutors maintained the theory that Chris Tapp, Ben Hobbs, and a third unidentified man raped and murdered Angie Dodge. The prosecutors successfully convinced a jury that Chris Tapp participated in this crime, and he was convicted of rape and murder. During the sentencing phase,
Prosecutors asked for a death sentence, but ultimately, a judge spared Chris' life. He was sentenced to 36 years to life in prison, with a chance of parole by the year 2027. Now, normally, after I tell you guys about a conviction and prison sentence, I give a few closing remarks, play some outro techno music or whatever, and then tell you to stay safe. I might remind you about Plus.
Sign up at swordandscale.com slash plus. But not this time, because you see, the story of Angie Dodge and Chris Tapp is far from over. About 13 years after Chris Tapp was sentenced, Angie's mom made a disturbing revelation. She learned that the detectives that interrogated Chris Tapp had manipulated him in ways that are almost beyond comprehension.
In order to coerce a confession. To understand exactly how this happened, it should be noted that the lead detective that interrogated Chris was 35-year-old Jared Furman. And Furman had met Chris Tapp long before Angie Dodge was killed. Before becoming a detective, Furman worked as a school resource officer at Chris Tapp's high school.
And because of that, Chris trusted Furman. Throughout Chris's many interrogations, Detective Furman leaned hard into that trust. I trust you and hopefully you trust me, okay? I'm not going to screw with you, as you know. I will do everything in my power to help you, okay? I'm going to give you my word on it.
An especially naive 20-year-old Chris Tapp believed that Detective Furman had his back. For Chris, it didn't matter what he said because no matter what happened, a friendly police detective was in his corner. Or so he thought. The truth was, unfortunately,
A much different story. Another thing you should know about Detective Furman is that he was blindly determined to put Ben Hobbs on trial for Angie's murder.
which was a goal he had made abundantly clear while interrogating Chris Tapp. For reasons that aren't entirely clear, Detective Furman wanted to dropkick Ben Hobbs through the goalposts of life.
Whatever the hell that means. But in order to do that, Detective Furman needed Chris Tapp to implicate Ben in Angie's murder. Yet when Chris was first questioned, and even though Furman had established some trust, Chris adamantly denied having any involvement with or knowledge of Angie's murder. In watching and listening to Chris's interrogation tapes,
there are plenty of reasons to believe that Chris was telling the truth. For one, Chris didn't even know when Angie was killed. Not only did Chris not know the date of the crime,
But he also didn't know how Angie was killed. That is, until Detective Furman told him. I was there in the autopsy, okay? I mean, okay, if you're going to kill someone, okay, kill them, but don't butcher them. You know what I mean? But he didn't remember on her. It wasn't just, you know, stab once or slice once. There was a lot of aggression. Very early on, and before Chris made any admission of guilt,
Chris was told that Angie was stabbed several times. With that knowledge and with the encouragement of Detective Furman, Chris made up a story. He explained that he saw Ben Hobbs stab Angie to death, but his story had big problems. For starters, Chris didn't even know where in Angie's apartment she was killed. But once Angie got on the ground, just Ben got on the ground, and General Ben held Angie
Angie was raped and murdered in her bedroom. There was no blood or any evidence of a struggle in her living room. Chris was dead wrong about where the murder happened. In fact, he didn't even know the layout of Angie's apartment because he'd never been there.
A particularly interesting part of Chris's interrogation is when Chris is asked about a stairwell in Angie's apartment. We talked to you and Jared, you know, Jared was talking to you and said if there's any way I could have gone up that stairs and stopped her, I would have. Now, I guess this is a question is how would you know that there were stairs? Because he said something about stairs. Honest truth, I didn't even know him.
In this clip, Chris points out that Detective Furman told him earlier that Angie's apartment had stairs. And he was right. Furman mentioned it well before Chris made any admissions of guilt. I mean, if you were there, and he told you maybe, if you were there at the apartment with him, and he told you to hang downstairs or whatever...
If there was ever a doubt that Chris had absolutely no knowledge of Angie's apartment, it was made abundantly clear when detectives asked him to draw a top-down layout of the home. Since Chris had never been inside the apartment, he failed this test miserably. But one of the detectives was more than happy to assist Chris in getting it right. Go through there and then there's a door.
Over the course of three weeks, Chris Tapp was questioned
nine times, totaling over 30 hours of interrogation, not including the seven polygraph examinations he underwent. Throughout those interrogations, the detectives repeatedly fed Chris non-public information about the crime, which included details about how Angie was killed and the layout of her home. Probably going to be a little bit traumatic for you, okay? When we go in and do a crime scene, we take pictures of the crime scene, okay?
I'm going to show you one of them. Chris was shown photographs of Angie's apartment and her dead body. But detectives didn't stop there. They also drove Chris to the crime scene and showed him around. Conveniently, none of this little field trip was video or audio recorded. So we have no idea what other details the detectives shared with Chris.
Needless to say, after spending many hours and days with detectives, Chris had a pretty good understanding of Angie's murder. But that's only one aspect of how the cops were able to coerce a confession out of him. Perhaps the most egregious and revolting thing that the cops did to Chris was psychologically manipulate him.
I wasn't there. I mean you would have done it. I wouldn't have done it. I wasn't there. I wasn't even down the fucking stairs. I wasn't nowhere around. I know this. I know this. I wasn't there. I mean, the way I think you're telling it to me, like I was there. Well, okay. Just like me. That's all the little stuff that we see out on the streets.
Seriously, hear me out. Some of the brutal stuff we see on the streets, my mind shuts down on me because I don't want to remember it. Okay? And as John was saying, this may be the case here with you. Okay? Detectives successfully convinced Chris that his mind was playing tricks on him and that he had repressed the memories of witnessing Angie's rape and murder. Cops are real good at gaslighting, so...
Don't talk to him. Let's work our way into the conversation that included you and Jeremy in bed. And see, that's my problem. I don't remember. It's probably because I don't want to remember it. I don't know if my pain is because I just pictured myself there. You know, when he's telling the story, I don't know if I pictured myself there or if I wasn't. I just don't know. Even my mind, you know, I just don't remember that.
For hours upon hours and days upon days, detectives told Chris that his mind contained memories about what happened to Angie. They encouraged him to recover those memories and, more importantly, vocalize them. In your mind, you've got to release it. You've got to tell us the details. Let's work on that. You know, I know it's tough. You've got to sit there. You've got to think about it in your mind. Okay?
Another aspect of psychological manipulation that Chris Tapp was subjected to
involved his polygraph examinations, also known as lie detector tests. Chris was told and convinced that the lie detector machine could determine what memories his mind was suppressing. In other words,
If Chris said that he didn't kill Angie and the lie detector showed that to be false, it didn't mean that Chris was lying. It only meant that Chris didn't remember it. Years later and long after Chris was convicted of murder and sent to prison, his interrogation and polygraph examination tapes were reviewed by several retired attorneys and law professors.
Unanimously, they all agreed that Chris's polygraph tests were not conducted in an effort to find the truth. My impressions after watching the Chris Tapp video of the interrogation and polygraph examinations were that, one, he was never really given a polygraph test, and two, that the polygraph was used here as a psychological rubber hose in an effort to coerce a confession.
In layman's terms, the lie detector tests were used as a means to manipulate Chris and convince him that the machine knew the truth better than Chris's own mind. It's almost like when they convince you that the government has a better use for your money than you do. With this manipulation in place, Chris Tapp was ready to surrender and provide detectives with whatever information they
they wanted to hear. That is everything that we need. I mean, if you were there, if you saw it, if you were downstairs and Ben came and you guys got rid of the stuff from there, those are the things that we've got to know about. And you're not going to be in any more trouble for as long as you didn't do it. Is there a possibility that you were there
Initially, Chris only admitted to being at Angie's apartment and witnessing Ben Hobbs commit the murder. But the male DNA found on Angie's body didn't match Ben or Chris's.
So Chris gave the cops another story and said that Jeremy Sargis was also there. But yet again, the DNA didn't match. The bottom line is this, Chris. The bottom line is this. I don't know if it hurts. Chris, you told us Jeremy Sargis was there. You not only told us that he was there, but he took an active part in it. Now we're finding out that Sargis probably wasn't there and that you were screwing with us. I'm not screwing with you.
What is it, Chris? I don't know what the hell you guys want. Okay, well, sorry to say or not. To my recollection, yes. Listen, you're the one that's providing the details. You're running the show here, not us. Okay, you're running the show, Chris. On the contrary, Chris Tapp wasn't running the show at all. The detectives were entirely responsible for the information that Chris had given them.
They manipulated him into providing information that they believed to be true for whatever reason. The main problem, of course, was that it wasn't true. Not a single word of it. To that point, Detective Furman was clearly upset that Jeremy's DNA didn't match the DNA at the crime scene. And he took his frustration out on Chris. But here's the thing.
Chris didn't tell Detective Furman that Jeremy participated in the crime until after Furman told Chris that Jeremy was involved. Chicken or the egg. It just come to our attention that it looks like Jer was probably more involved than... It looks like he probably was there at one time, yeah. I remember Jer being there, wouldn't I? I would think. I don't remember seeing him there.
This part of Chris's interrogation is extremely telling. Notice how he asks the detective if he would remember that Jeremy was there. Chris is questioning his own memory because the cops convinced him that his memory was unreliable. At the same time, Chris looks for affirmation from Detective Furman, whom he trusts to guide him to the right place.
As for Furman, before the DNA results on Jeremy Sargis came back, he was absolutely certain that Jeremy was somehow involved in Angie's murder. This certainty is obvious throughout Jeremy's interrogation. If I knew something, I would tell you. I'd save my ass. Okay? Are you going to lock me up for not knowing nothing about this? I mean, for reals.
For reals is you're not coming clean, my friend. That's for reals. Okay. I think. I know. I know. You're right. Why do you think we have you back in here? Do you think we'd be wasting our time and wasting your time if we didn't think you're involved here? No, you're wasting your time. You're barking up the wrong tree. You're making a fool out of yourself. You really are. Excuse me? I'm making a fool out of myself? Yeah, because I didn't do shit.
Oh, I'm making a fool out of myself. I think you better stand up and look at the flipping me. Yes, Detective Furman, you and all the detectives that investigated this case had made complete fools of yourselves. But that fact, along with a lot of other facts, seemed completely lost on them. At any point during the investigation, they could have
and should have stopped and said, hey, wait a minute, none of the DNA matches and none of the evidence is corroborating what Chris Tapp is telling us. Maybe, just maybe, we are going in the wrong direction. I mean, that's the logical path to take, right? Well, unfortunately, neither Furman nor anyone at the Idaho Falls Police Department said that.
Even when Chris Tapp gave them the chance. You went from no involvement to getting in my face saying, I don't know anything to where you're starting to come clean on some of the stuff. I mean, we're not there yet. Can I just go back to the beginning? I was never there. I wasn't involved. Let me just start way back then. After Jeremy Sargis was eliminated as a suspect, the detectives remained hard-headed.
They maintained their theory that Chris Tapp, Ben Hobbs, and a third unknown man were responsible for Angie's murder. So, once again, they went back to Chris and demanded that he give them the name of the third man. Well, something's there because you're not giving up that other person, Chris. I would if I could, Jared, I would. Jesus Christ, I would. But I don't know, I can give you every goddamn name in the book.
The facts still remain, and they are facts. It's not probable cause, but it's facts. Right. Chris, you were there, another person was there. I know, and I'm not trying to dick you around. Well, you are dicking us around. Chris, you are. You're dicking us around right now. Because I won't say his name? Yep. And my thing is, the name, nothing comes to my head. No, but Chris... What more do you want? I mean, if nothing comes to my head, what can I do? Chris...
I'm trying to give you everything I can remember. What more? I mean, that's it. We're not the bad guys here. Naturally, Chris couldn't provide the name of this third man because there was no third man. Chris continued to butt heads with detectives who were trying to get an answer that didn't exist. As a result, Angie's murder could only be pinned on one person.
Christopher Tapp. Well, no different if Chris stuck her once. No different. Well, what do you mean it is? Well, what? I'm still going to get what? Murdered now instead of accessory? Chris, Chris, what? Talk to me here, okay? I'm sorry, I'm thinking of the worst case. Well, let's think of the worst case, okay? So what? What if? What if? What if you did it, okay? Cut her once. Okay, so you cut her once, okay? Okay.
maybe i did something i'm sure you did i mean come on man i mean you're the heat of the moment she's putting up the fight ben's screaming at you you know you're caught you're right there in the middle right sure you are things are just going fast fast and furious and you're wondering oh my hell what is going on what am i doing then man you get caught up in it
Chris Tapp's last interview with Detective Fuhrman was on January 30, 1997. During that interview, Chris confessed to stabbing Angie Dodge. Based on that confession alone, Chris was convicted of rape,
and first-degree murder, and subsequently sent to prison. Sadly, in one of the most egregious miscarriages of justice imaginable, it was in prison that Chris Tapp remained for 20 years. This episode is brought to you by Allianz Travel Insurance. When you're far from home, anything can happen. That's why more than 70 million American travelers trust Allianz Travel Insurance to protect their adventures.
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Go to KNIX.com and get 15% off with promo code TRY15. That's NYX.com promo code TRY15 for 15% off life-changing period underwear. That's KNIX.com. In June of 1996, 18-year-old Angie Dodge was found raped and murdered in her Idaho Falls apartment.
Seven months later, Idaho Falls homicide detectives coerced a false murder confession out of one of Angie's friends, 20-year-old Christopher Tapp. Based on that confession, a jury convicted Chris of first-degree murder and rape. He was sentenced to 36 years to life with a chance at parole in 2027. As Chris sat in prison, the Angie Dodge murder investigation remained active and open.
mainly because the male DNA found on Angie's body had never been identified. Even so, the Idaho Falls police did put someone in prison for the murder, so the pressure to solve the crime was reduced considerably. All efforts to find out whose DNA it was moved at a snail's pace now that they already had their killer.
In fact, the Angie Dodge murder investigation probably would have died off completely had it not been for the efforts of Angie's mom, Carol Dodge, who was constantly hounding the Idaho Falls Police Department for answers. For years, Carol Dodge believed the same theory that prosecutors presented at trial.
She was convinced that Chris Tapp, Ben Hobbs, and an unknown third man raped and murdered her 18-year-old daughter. Carol was determined to find out who the third man was, but in 2008, she decided to sit down and watch Chris Tapp's interrogation tapes in their entirety. As she did this, Carol saw what anyone could see.
Detectives manipulating a young man into giving a false confession. After reviewing the tapes, Carroll wisely reached out to a law professor at Northwestern Pritzker School of Law, who happened to be an expert on false confessions. It's the first time in my career that I had ever been contacted by a crime victim.
In an effort to solve her daughter's murder,
Carol Dodge continued asking third-party experts for help. Several retired FBI agents and law professors reviewed the police and autopsy reports. As this was done, it became pretty clear that the original detectives weren't only malicious when it came to conducting interrogations.
They were also completely inept when it came to evaluating evidence. All of the evidence in this case points to a lone offender. The police misinterpreted this evidence, thinking they were looking for multiple offenders. But the evidence itself, when viewed independently and objectively, supports the conclusion that a single offender was involved in this crime.
For a decade, Idaho Falls investigators operated under the assumption that multiple people were involved in Angie's murder. But all of the crime scene evidence screamed, lone offender. In 2014, an extensive report about the Angie Dodge murder was released by Judges for Justice, a non-profit organization that provides independent and scientific analysis for cases of
of alleged innocence. While their company name leaves a lot to be desired, Judges for Justice is a powerhouse when it comes to crime scene analysis. In their report about Angie Dodge, they painstakingly point out everything wrong with the way that Idaho Falls police interpreted the evidence and how the crime was almost certainly committed by just one person.
From blood spatter analysis to the way Angie's body and clothes were positioned, as well as the state of her bedroom, all of it pointed to a lone offender. In their report, they wrote the following: "The IFPD investigation proceeded with the predetermined conclusion that Ben Hobbs had killed Angie Dodge. This conclusion was an error, and it was their reaction to this error which doomed the case."
All evidence was evaluated through that filter, and all investigative actions reflected that bias.
Based on all available evidence, it is the conclusion of Judges for Justice that neither Christopher Tapp nor Benjamin Hobbs had any involvement in the murder of Angie Dodge, and that the crime was committed by a male who lived in proximity to Angie at the time of her murder. That killer likely still walks the streets.
Another important detail that this report points out is that Ben Hobbs had no motive to kill Angie Dodge. When Chris Tapp gave his false confession, he claimed that Ben was angry because Angie told his wife that Ben was cheating on her. Yet, detectives knew this wasn't true. The Judges for Justice report reads as follows...
On January 10th, 1997, Ben Hobbs' then estranged wife told Detective Jared Furman that Angie had nothing to do with their breakup. Still, Furman apparently disregarded this first-hand information and persisted in foisting that false motive on Chris Tapp. As all of this information was coming to light, Chris Tapp's defense team was busy trying to get Chris released from prison and
on the basis of innocence. Their attempts were denied several times. But after years of legal battles, and with the assistance of Angie's mom, Chris finally caught a small break. In March of 2017, Chris Tapp entered into an agreement with Idaho state prosecutors. The gist of the agreement is that the defendant agrees to the charge of count one murder in the first degree of the principal
And part two of the deadly weapon enhancement, those convictions shall remain in full force in effect. A new generation of Idaho prosecutors were willing to vacate Chris Tapp's rape confession, but they wanted to maintain the murder conviction. This meant that a judge could resentence Chris and he could be released from prison immediately on the basis of time served. If Chris accepted this agreement, he would still be considered a convicted murderer.
For the state, perhaps the most important part of this agreement was that Chris would not be able to pursue any civil action against Idaho or the corrupt detectives that put him in prison. Despite all the wrong they had done to him, the state was unwilling to admit fault or be held accountable. After all, accountability is something that the state, in general, doesn't quite care for.
Even so, the prospect of being let out of prison was just too good for Chris to pass up. And he accepted the terms of the agreement. To give you a sense of how stupid our justice system can be sometimes, when Chris Tapp went before a judge to be resentenced, everyone in the courtroom knew that he was innocent. That judge, the prosecutors, the media, everyone, everyone knew. The victim's mom even.
This is why when Angie's mom was given the chance to provide an impact statement, she spoke plainly and directed her comments at Chris. For 13 years, I was really angry at you and of course you were angry at me because for 13 years they programmed my mind to believe that you were part of my daughter's killing. I remember visiting you at Pocatello at the jail.
Asking you what my baby's last words were. Little did I know that you just didn't know. It took me 13 years, Chris, to read over and over and over again and watch the videotapes of your interrogation. They're long. You can hardly hear them. They're agonizing. They're disgusting. Angie's mom is right. The interrogation of Chris Tapp was, and is, disgusting.
We watched all 30 plus hours of it, along with Chris's polygraph examinations. I encourage you to do so yourself. It's pretty obvious. To see detectives twist and manipulate a young man into admitting to something he clearly didn't do is revolting in and of itself. But it also completely dismantles the purpose of a justice system to begin with.
Given how many people needed to be involved, the fact that this case was ever even presented to a jury should scare the hell out of you. Granted, in 1998, coerced confessions weren't quite as well understood as they are today, but even so, this is not a situation of hindsight being 20-20. Anyone with even a basic level of education can watch the interrogation tapes and see what's going on.
It's plain as day. For over a decade, Angie's mom was basically brainwashed into thinking Chris Tapp raped and stabbed her daughter. Yet, she saw it right away. What I wanted to know is how a layperson, how a crime victim could look at these tapes and see all of the problems with these tapes.
How could she see that and the police officers not see all of these problems? These police officers were stuck in the Chris Tapp box and they couldn't get out of it. Even though DNA evidence excluded Chris Tapp and excluded every single person that he named,
They were stuck in that box. So what I want to see happen is in cases like this before trial, when you have a confession and you have DNA evidence that excludes the person who confesses, police officers need to stop and not charge that person and continue investigating. Because had they done so, perhaps they might have found evidence.
Given how obviously coerced Chris's confession was, it's hard to believe that detectives didn't know exactly what they were doing. But let's say we give them the benefit of the doubt. Let's say that they were so swept up by the prospect that Ben Hobbs and Chris Tapp were involved in this crime that they just couldn't see beyond that theory.
Let's say that they were not trying to pin a murder on someone that they thought or even knew was innocent. That's not exactly a glowing endorsement of the caliber of people that work for the Idaho Police Department. They were either being completely malicious and trying to put an innocent man in prison just to close out a high-profile murder case that was on their desk, or they are mind-numbingly incompetent.
when it comes to investigating crime. But hey, why pick one when you can have both? They're not mutually exclusive, after all. The government can be both malicious and stupid, in case you haven't noticed. What seems to have happened here is that the Idaho Falls detectives completely bungled the Angie Dodge murder investigation. At some point, they probably realized that they screwed up.
But then they were already way too deep and they felt they couldn't turn back and still save face. Maybe they had career aspirations they didn't want to screw up. Who knows? Maybe they didn't want to admit they were wrong. A lot of us don't. In fact, for some, it's the hardest possible thing you can ask them to do. Maybe they were just blinded by the anger at the idea that Chris Tapp had lied to them.
Whatever the reason, at some point these detectives likely made a conscious decision to put an innocent man on trial for murder. Speaking of those detectives, all of them were conspicuous by their absence at Chris Tapp's resentencing hearing. This was not only a slap in the face to Chris, but also a clear indication that
that they had no interest in seeing that Angie Dodge got justice or that Angie's mom got answers about the identity, the true identity of her daughter's killer. I don't know who he is. I don't know that I'll ever know who he is. I don't know that he's alive. I don't know where he's at. I can tell you that it's been one hell of a journey and I have turned to every pebble there is and I'm saddened.
For Angie's mom, the agonizing pursuit to find her daughter's real killer dragged on. Can you imagine the pain, the frustration in dealing with this inefficient, inadequate system? How small you would feel against it as a victim's mother?
and how much of your entire psyche becomes consumed with finding justice for the death of this person that you truly love. Despite this sad reality, Chris Tapp's resentencing hearing did have somewhat of a happy ending. On March 22, 2017, after spending 20 years in prison for a crime he did not commit, a judge released Chris Tapp.
Even though he was still considered a convicted killer, Chris became a free man. You are receiving credit by order of this court for all the time served today, up to today, with the intent that you be released from custody today, your sentence having been completed or satisfied. We are off the record. After Chris was released...
He gave an interview to East Idaho News, which helped shed some light on why someone might confess to a crime
they did not commit. One of the officers that was involved in all my interrogations and everything else was Jared Furman. He was my resource officer as a junior high. So I built a rapport with the man. And so he worked that rapport that we've built over the years as a point where I could trust him. You know, it's okay, we're going to help you. And it's all right if you did this. It's all right if you did that. It's okay. We can work through this.
At this point, everyone familiar with the Angie Dodge case
knew that Chris Tapp was innocent. Which is why the reporter asked Chris if he had anything to say to Angie's real killer. And if that murderer is still alive, what would you say to them? I think John said it best the day they released me, there's a bounty on his head. There will come a time, if the individual is alive, that he will be brought to justice. While Chris' long and hard-fought legal battles to get out of prison had finally come to an end,
The search for Angie's real killer continued, and in May of 2019, 23 years after Angie was murdered, that search came to an end. Thanks to advancements in DNA testing, a new generation of Idaho homicide detectives were finally able to identify the man that killed Angie Dodge.
He lived across the street from Angie at the time of the murder. He was questioned shortly after the homicide. He told investigators at that time that he had been intoxicated with alcohol and controlled substances at the time of the murder, so he did not see anything that evening and was not sure where he was or what time he returned that evening. Unbelievable, isn't it? In 1996, when Angie Dodge was killed, the murderer lived right across the street from her.
and he had no alibi for the night of the crime. Yet the original investigators didn't think to question him further or take a DNA sample from him. I guess it's kind of hard to properly investigate a murder when you're too busy putting an innocent man in prison. In 2019, genealogical DNA testing was used to identify distant relatives of Angie's killer.
This process led investigators to a suspect. That suspect was 53-year-old Brian Lee Dripps, who again lived right across the fucking street from Angie when she was killed. After Brian became a suspect, Idaho investigators surveilled him for about a week before snatching up a cigarette butt that he tossed onto some pavement.
When the cigarette was tested for DNA, it came back as a match. The semen found on Angie's dead body belonged to Brian Dripps. Soon after this realization was made, Brian was taken into police custody and questioned. This was something that took place years and years ago, and it was when you were living in Idaho Falls, the Idaho Falls area.
It was a pretty major case on that. The only thing I can think of is that murder case. It's the only thing I can think of that happened when I was living there. Yeah. Tell us what you remember about that. Well, I was asked what I knew about it back then. Yeah. And I don't remember much because, you know, from what I remember that night was we were drinking with my buddies. And I told the cop that night. We got called to the cab for my buddy's.
At the end of this interrogation, the cops didn't reveal that they had already matched Brian's DNA to Angie's murder. And Brian maintained the same story that he had given the police over 20 years before this interview. As expected, when the investigators asked Brian for a DNA sample...
He was reluctant to give it up. We would like to get a sample from you, a buccal swab or a DNA sample. Is that something you'd be willing to do? It's really unobtrusive. It's just a swab. I just know by the simple fact that my DNA will be in some database. Is there a reason you're semen with Beyonce? No. So you would just be completely shocked if we had your DNA at the scene?
Yep. We have your DNA at the scene. After Brian was made aware that the cops had him dead to rights, it didn't take long for him to come clean and confess to raping and murdering 18-year-old Angie Dodge in June of 1996. I don't remember any details. I was drunk. All messed up. Shit happened. What do you mean by shit happened? Because I was all messed up on coke and drunk.
And there it is. Corroboration. Brian knew that Angie's apartment had stairs and nobody needed to tell him beforehand.
At the time of Angie's murder, Brian Dripps was 30 years old and was in the middle of a divorce. He claimed that he was drunk and high on cocaine when he went to Angie's apartment and that he never intended to kill her. His only goal was to rape her. What did you use? A knife. Describe that to me. Just a knife. A buck knife? Did you have the knife out? Also, no.
According to Brian, as he was raping Angie, she fought back.
which led Brian to stabbing her several times and slitting her throat. This account was consistent with the crime scene and quite different than the original theory that three men had raped and murdered Angie. What are your thoughts in regards to that? To what? The other conviction that we have in this case. Oh, I'm not sorry for the guy. What do you think about his confession? I don't know.
Apparently, Brian was pretty indifferent about Chris Tapp's confession, and he didn't really care that an innocent person went to prison for a crime he committed. To do so would have meant that he had a conscience, which not a lot of rapists slash murderers do.
At the same time, he obviously didn't care that Angie's mom and the rest of her family were painfully and desperately searching for answers. Mr. Dripps is the definition of evil. He never wanted to confess his crimes to this court or take responsibility for this atrocity against us and this community. He was completely happy to sit back, retire, and
watch another man do time for a crime that only Mr. Dripps committed. He lived his life and kept silent about Angie's murder for those 23 years. He went on vacation with his family, got to enjoy time with his children, his mother, his stepfather, his other family members and friends.
To avoid a potential death sentence,
Brian Dripps pled guilty to Angie's rape and murder in February of 2021. Later that year, he was sentenced to 20 years to life, and he will almost certainly die behind bars. With Brian Dripps locked up, the search to find Angie's real killer had finally reached an end. But the story of Chris Tapp continued.
After Brian was arrested, the Idaho Falls Police Department threw themselves a little celebratory press release. And it just so happened that Chris Tapp was in attendance. Contentiously, one of the news reporters put the police department on the spot and asked just the right question. Good work. Thank you.
Naturally, the police wanted to focus on their accomplishments, not their failings.
But with Brian Dripps having confessed, the state could no longer uphold Chris' murder conviction. In July of 2019, a court hearing was held that led to Chris Tapp finally being exonerated. There's no doubt there are failings in the criminal justice system. In my view, there's very convincing evidence the defendant was convicted of a crime for which he's not convicted.
Based upon that, under our ethical rules, we're going to move to dismiss and vacate the jury verdict and move to dismiss that case. Chris Tapp is the 367th person in America to be exonerated through the use of DNA.
Of those 367 people, 102 of them gave the police a false confession. Almost 1 in 3 to 1 in 4 people would lie about being involved in a crime. As hard as it is to wrap your mind around someone admitting to a crime they didn't commit, it does happen. In fact, it seems to happen quite a lot. It's not exactly uncommon.
At Chris's exoneration hearing, one of his defense attorneys pointed out how easy it is for something like this to happen. You know, the tactics that police use during interrogations are psychologically coercive. Police are allowed to lie to people they're interrogating and say, we have your fingerprints, you know, we have DNA at the scene.
After being exonerated, Chris Tapp stood on the steps of the same courthouse where he was wrongfully convicted of murder.
and gave a brief statement. Chris Tapp has hope that what happened to him will never happen to anyone else. But the truth is, it has already happened. Angie Dodge was murdered in 1996.
The tactics that police used to coerce Chris into giving a false confession have been used for decades and are still commonly used throughout the country. If Chris's wrongful conviction tells us nothing else, the one thing it makes perfectly clear is that we desperately need reform when it comes to the way that the police conduct interrogations.
As listeners of Sword and Scale, you already knew that cops are allowed to lie to you and that it's illegal for you to lie to them. But why is that? Why is the citizen held to a higher standard than the cop who is policing them? It's a good question. For authorities, lies are a means to manipulate, which should probably not be allowed.
especially in a murder investigation. I don't know. What do you think? Tell us your thoughts in the comments. We've got to eliminate deception in the interrogation room and other psychologically coercive techniques using false evidence, threats of consequences. And there are alternative investigative techniques that can be used. And so we hope that
Chris's case is not in vain and it's a moment that we can learn from and enact reforms to really make sure that this doesn't happen to somebody else and we don't have to wait two decades for the next technology to come out. Granted, putting restrictions on or making reforms to police interrogations could make it harder for police to solve crimes. It could make an important and difficult job even more difficult.
If you oppose the idea of police interrogation reform, that's fine. As a true crime podcaster and someone that covers hundreds of stories of murder, I can certainly understand why someone would take that position. But if you do take that position, then you also have to admit that you think putting guilty people in prison is more important than keeping innocent people alive.
out of prison. And that's, using a word I hate, problematic for a number of reasons. With regard to wrongful convictions, there is another question worth asking. Where is the accountability? As a result of Chris Tapp's case, Idaho Falls has agreed to pay Chris $11.7 million. Chris undoubtedly deserves every penny of that money.
But here's the thing. That money isn't coming from the cops or prosecutors that put them in prison. It's not coming from their pensions or their retirement funds. It's coming from you, the taxpayer. Specifically, the Idaho taxpayer. You are funding these people's incompetence. Congratulations. Don't forget to vote.
In America, we have laws on our books that make it illegal for a person to accidentally kill someone. It's called manslaughter. Shouldn't there also be criminal laws against quote unquote "accidentally" sending an innocent person to prison? Robbing them of their freedoms and ruining their life? I'm not saying we should burn cops and prosecutors at the stake. I mean, some of you may think that, but that's not what I'm saying.
But it's not unreasonable to suggest that when they make mistakes, they should be held accountable. Isn't being held accountable what they do to us? Shouldn't their punishment be proportionate to the damage that they caused? Speaking of, Chris Tapp currently has pending civil litigation against all of the detectives that were involved in his interrogations and polygraph exams.
As for Detective Jared Furman, he will never be held accountable. After Chris Tapp was sent to prison, Furman rose to the rank of Lieutenant and in 2006 he was elected as the Mayor of Idaho Falls. He served two terms before being diagnosed with Alzheimer's and in May of 2022, the disease killed him. He was 60.
Jared Furman was a father to eight children and a grandfather to 17 children. And I'm sure that throughout his life as a parent, a cop, a mayor, he did some noble things. Some good things for the people of Idaho Falls. But his legacy will always and should always be tainted by the fact that he sent an innocent man to prison himself.
for 20 years. As of March 2023, there are about 2.3 million people in prison in America. And if you take a conservative estimate and say that we only get it wrong 1% of the time, that means that 23,000 people are in prison right now for crimes they did not commit. In other words,
We know that there are many more Chris Tapps out there. And we know that our justice system is rife with injustice. It's important for us to look at Chris's case and others like it. It's important to learn from them and use them to make changes. It's important that we demand a better system of justice because if we don't, it's not out of the realm of possibility anymore.
That injustice could someday find us or someone that we love.
We may have something coming your way pretty soon. So make sure you log in to sword and scale.com slash plus, and that you make sure that you update your address so we can send you your stuff. See ya. Hey Mike, I'm a nine one one dispatcher and I just want to say, go fuck yourself. Just kidding. Actually, I am a nine one one dispatcher. I,
I love your show. I love that you call out shitty dispatchers on their bullshit. I actually reference your show all the time when I'm training new hires on everything not to do when they are handling an emergency call. Keep up the great work. Keep playing the audio. Keep calling us out on our shit when we don't do our job. Thanks for everything you do. Bye. Bye.
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