Episode 239
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Sword and Scale contains adult themes and violence and is not intended for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised. I'm almost at the end of my career and I want to stop helping people one emergency at a time. I want to get out there and be a catalyst in changing people's lives. And if this helps you, you're welcome to it. And that's this. Don't take this life...

too seriously, but don't ever take it for granted.

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The national sales event is on at your Toyota dealer, making now the perfect time to get a great deal on a dependable new Toyota truck. Like a rugged, half-ton Tundra, workhorse by nature, powerhouse by design, the Tundra combines raw capability with premium comfort and advanced tech to fuel your wildest adventures. And with the available i-Force Max Hybrid Powertrain, you can take electrifying horsepower farther and

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So visit your local Toyota dealer and check out amazing national sales event deals when you visit buyatoyota.com. Toyota, let's go places. Live and let live. It's much easier said than done. The premise is extremely simple. Live your own life and stay the hell out of the way of others so they can live theirs.

Presumably the way they want to as long as they're not hurting anyone. The premise may be simple, but practicing this concept can be altogether different because it requires self-regulation, control of ourselves rather than our environment. Ironically, sometimes we can't control ourselves. We lash out and we project this need onto others closest to us.

and begin controlling them instead of letting them live their lives the way they want to. Have you ever woken up in the middle of the night, like around 3 or 4 in the morning and you just can't go back to sleep? Happens to me all the time. Maybe you were just startled during a bad dream or maybe the Z-Quil or Ambien wore off and now you're wide awake

and plagued with intrusive thoughts that just will not go away, like an endless loop. Why does that particular timeframe seem to be so common for people being disturbed from their slumber? Folklore would suggest that the time period between 3 and 4 in the morning is the witching hour, or the devil's hour. This is the early morning time slot when evil roams the earth.

In Colbert, a rural area just northeast of Spokane, Washington, deputies and firefighters were awakened on May 26, 2015, when they were summoned to the scene of a fiery house and barn at 20 East Chatteroy Road. The chaos and carnage were quickly attributed to arson, the handiwork of an unknown demon prowling the area. Responders continued pouring in and

One noticed something in the grass. Lying just outside the burning home and red flames, the green grass nestled an object every fire person is familiar with, a flash of reflective tape on a firefighter's helmet. It appeared they had already lost one of their own. This fire was suspicious from the time that firefighters arrived on scene. When they got here, they found two separate structures on fire, including a barn.

Neighbors started noticing that something was going on across the road when they awoke to noises and saw a large volume of smoke. One neighbor rushed to the scene to offer his help. He said about a quarter to two. He heard popping noises, looked out, saw the fire, got over there, the barn was in flame, and the house had started on fire.

Naturally, he was alarmed, so the neighbor began urgently knocking on the door to wake anyone in the home. He even tried to kick the door in, but it would be trained personnel who discovered the first body. This was the body of Lisa Canfield. She was a mother and wife and lived in the home. Her slim corpse was lying in the back bedroom and would not be easy to retrieve.

Firemen first needed to cut a hole in the bedroom from outside the house before dragging Lisa's mostly intact body through the hole and onto the grass. One of the deputies reported the grim scene. Upon arrival, I received limited information about a deceased female victim, Lisa Canfield, found by fire personnel in the burning house.

I was told Lisa appeared to have been stabbed several times. Lisa's body was lying in the backyard with a yellow blanket covering her up. I was also told Lisa's husband Terrence Terry Canfield was missing. I went over to examine the body and saw the female victim. She had a piece of cloth stuffed into her mouth. She had what appeared to be knife wounds to her hands and wrists and bruises to her chest area. There were puncture wounds on her chest below her neck. There were also burn marks covering the body.

Lisa was found completely nude, lying on her back. Telltale defensive wounds covered her hands and wrists, and although severe burns damaged her lower legs and feet, Lisa did not seem to have died by fire, but by unnatural and violent causes. As for the firefighter's helmet lying in the yard, it belonged to Lisa's husband, Terry Canfield.

And together they owned the barn, the home, and the property in general, as well as some horses and several dogs. Terry was still missing, but detectives would soon discover a badly charred body in the barn along with a third victim.

We do know that the fire occurred at Lieutenant Canfield's residence, and we do know that we're not able to contact Lieutenant Canfield. So I think the community at this point is really holding their breath to see if a result from the autopsy today determines whether or not

Any of the three bodies belonged to Lieutenant Canfield. He had a lot of tenure on the department, had a lot of experience, liked to share his experience. He was an instructor. He did a lot of things off-duty like that. He was out in the community doing programs. He was actually even a comedian. 59-year-old Terry was very active in the community and allegedly had no enemies. Questions arose with regard to his marriage and Lisa.

and a female neighbor and friend had some answers. She explained that she and Lisa were best friends of 10 years. Just the night before the fire, she was at the home of Lisa and Terry having a few drinks. She not only insisted there had been no arguments that night between husband and wife, but that Lisa and Terry were madly in love with each other. There was no way anything bad happened between them.

At that point, the neighbor walked away sobbing and attempted to regain her composure. The search for Lieutenant Terry Canfield continued. Police were sharing what little information they had about the victims. He said Terry just recently had major shoulder surgery and he knew Terry wouldn't be at work. I asked if he or anyone else might know where Terry was, but he answered no. By this time, the barn that was on fire was mostly burnt to the ground. The house was still being put out by firefighters.

Lieutenant Bean said they did an initial sweep of the house and didn't find any other bodies, but they said that they needed to do another more thorough search. He also stated it may be possible that Terry may have been in the barn and it would be a while before they could go through that debris. Later that afternoon, when the flames were doused and the smoke subdued, the remains of two other victims appeared from the ashes.

Terry Canfield and his 24-year-old stepson, John, who also lived in the home. District 4 firefighters were actually the first people to notice this blaze was no accident. When they stumbled upon the first two victims as crews fought the fire, they wondered why the residents hadn't been able to escape. Some parts of their home, like this bedroom, never even filled with smoke.

Unfortunately, Spokane firefighter Terry Canfield may have not been able to use one of those guns to defend himself because of the lieutenant's recent shoulder surgery. Terry had just undergone shoulder surgery, making him an already wounded target for the killer. All three bodies betrayed gunshot wounds indicating they had not died from smoke inhalation and further confirming suspicions that a killer was roaming Spokane.

Was this killer a stranger looking for valuables or money? Or was this someone familiar? Some monster with a vendetta? It had been a long time since Spokane was spooked quite like this. And in fact, the last time something this horrible happened there,

Sergeant Scale put out an episode about it. Well, you know, stranger-to-stranger murders are very rare in Spokane. I think what Joseph Duncan did to the Groney family was the last time we saw a stranger-to-stranger killing of this magnitude. If this was just a home invasion robbery, then it's likely those weapons that you saw being taken out of the house would have been stolen. So for at least for now, it appears that

that these victims somehow knew their killer. The fires were winding down when someone very unexpected pulled up to the property. While deputies continued to extinguish blazing flames from two fires, cordon off the area as a probable crime scene and take pictures of the buildings, carnage and rubble, a fourth resident of the Canfield home frantically approached wearing a nurse's uniform.

This was Amanda Constable, Lisa's other child and stepdaughter to Terry. She immediately quizzed officers as to the whereabouts of her parents, begging to find out if they were still alive. Since the bodies of her stepfather and brother were reduced to gray powder and ashy bone fragments, they had not yet been found and identified. That left the mother, a female's deceased body,

had been carried outside the home. Reality set in, and Amanda crumpled to the pavement where she sat on the wet asphalt soaked with water from the fire trucks. Stunned and in shock, Amanda was sure she knew what had happened. Her immediate explanation was that the fire occurred due to a faulty or out-of-date electrical system that was reminding them with blown circuit breakers.

The maintenance was long overdue. Queasy and unsettled, she couldn't provide herself with the answer to how the barn caught on fire. She didn't yet know arson was suspected, but when given this information, she also could not explain who would want her parents dead.

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In the early morning of May 26th in Spokane, Washington, 29-year-old Amanda Constable just finished working an extra shift as a nurse. Amanda was tired and anticipated that she'd climb into bed as soon as she arrived home, where her parents and brother also lived. Instead, she was greeted with sirens, lights, and smoldering flames.

There was no bed for Amanda because it was burned in the fire along with her family. She wanted to believe faulty electrical wiring caused the fires, but Amanda had to face facts after being told the bodies had been shot to death.

The major crimes detectives did apply for a search warrant and that has been processed and they are now going through the scene here to collect evidence and with the forensics unit to make sure that we get all the information to find out what happened here.

Today, detectives asked Colbert area residents to be on the lookout for any possible evidence that may have been discarded around their property or to recall any cars they may have seen in the area the night of the fire. So now detectives think that their suspects are on the run and may be trying to discard some of the evidence that ties them to the crime scene, including burned clothing or some of the things they may have stolen from this home.

Detectives are asking that if you notice something suspicious, particularly if you live in this area, I've seen people dumping things in dumpsters. No one could have predicted that evidence would lead them to a politician. Roy Murray, 30-year-old, tall and skinny, was a clean-cut veteran with a brown-haired buzz cut and nondescript face, wearing typical man-type glasses. Frankly, kind of nerdy-looking.

Not necessarily what you would think of when conjuring the image of an Army vet who served with valor, earning the Bronze Star for helping a VIP escape from a complex ambush. He was severely wounded at the time. After serving in Iraq, Murray was active in politics for a number of years. In 2011, he was nominated to run for an open state senate seat. He lost.

Murray just happened to be Amanda Constable's husband. Only three weeks earlier, Amanda moved back into her parents' home due to a change in job location from Lewiston, the town her husband still lived in.

Amanda's brother had moved back in after a breakup with his girlfriend. Amanda's brother was staying at the house and the last text message that he sent was at 0016 and the shots rang out 14 minutes after that.

And then there was another neighbor that actually heard the fires set when they went off. He testified that it sounded like a very loud whoosh type of a sound, like a big bonfire being lit. And he heard two of them about 30 seconds apart at 2:00 in the morning.

And then he went down this driveway and looked and saw that there was fire over there. And then he ran back up, called 911. And then he proceeded out to the property to try to see if anybody was inside the house and tried to get an answer, but didn't get one. But the fire department showed up shortly after that. This was prosecutor Larry Haskell, as he recalls details of this triple homicide.

To put it into perspective, the shots were heard at 12:32 a.m., but the booms of explosive fire were not heard until 2:00 in the morning. The night of the fires, Amanda should have been home, except a worker called in sick, leaving Amanda to cover for the next shift.

She got home at 3:30 in the morning as it was. She had worked in overtime. The fires didn't get set until 2:00 in the morning. So the state's theory, and I used it in closing argument, was nobody hangs around a scene in which they've committed three murders and waits 90 minutes before they set fire to the house and leave unless they're waiting for somebody.

After moving from the wet pavement to an ambulance, Amanda was given a blanket and her thoughts began to collect and make sense. Just then, a weird look came over her. She hated to have this thought, but officers should check in with her husband, the husband she was trying to divorce. He was never physically abusive with her, but her parents didn't like him very much.

And that feeling was mutual with Roy. She added that he had a history of several arrests and tends to get very angry very fast. In fact, Murray was arrested just after he lost the state Senate race. He was one of three candidates contending for a vacant state Senate seat. Murray had just been arrested the month before in Las Vegas on gun charges and was addressing the ordeal with county commissioners.

Decisiveness, dependability. Murray didn't get the position, and months later, he was arrested again. According to court documents, Murray took a gun into the Walla Walla VA. Konezovich says that to his knowledge, every time Murray has had contact with law enforcement, he has been armed. Murray had a veritable obsession with weaponry.

When Amanda was interviewed, she confirmed he owned several guns, including the much-feared AR-15-style rifle, which he named Puppy. Now, there's nothing wrong with having weapons, guns, to protect yourself and your family, even the AR-15. But if you give it a name, then you're kind of a weirdo. Just putting that out there, folks. Amanda said that he would never touch his ammunition again.

and instead would wipe each round off prior to loading them in the magazine. Now that's very weird, isn't it? Murray told her this helped him shoot and scoot, leaving no DNA. When she met Murray, Amanda thought he was cute and tried to ignore his extreme opinions about the government. Awkward and sometimes angry,

Murray sometimes needed Amanda to act as a buffer between him and her parents. She recalled one night her mother playfully tried to push Murray over. His response was to put her in a headlock.

He was very goal-driven and very hopeful. He just had big dreams. I would try to buffer his jokes or make excuses for them being inappropriate. He had very strong opinions and felt the government would eventually fall and the preparations were needed to come out on the right side of that.

Things kind of came and went. Guns, body armor, magazines, vests you put equipment on, tactical gear, goggles, gloves, gun cleaning supplies. We went camping one time and it was like practice for if you ever had to survive. Survive was what Amanda was able to do. And her family was not on the night they were obliterated. And that was only because she graciously took an extra shift, something she rarely had to do.

She quickly fingered her estranged husband, Roy Murray, as the culprit, and evidence at the scene seemed to corroborate her suspicions. But those two deliberately set fires did not destroy the .22 caliber slugs found in the victims' bodies or the bullet casings painstakingly recovered in the debris. Detectives on the scene also used trained canines to sniff out any possible sources of arson.

Gasoline was concluded to be the accelerant. Interestingly, Murray had a Facebook page. Well, that's not interesting since just about everybody has one or had one. But Murray posted a few songs there on May 25th, 2015. One of them is a cute Spanish lullaby. Look it up on YouTube if you want. It's called...

"Gasolina" Now the media may have been making a huge leap by connecting this song to the fires.

If you were to look up "gasolina" in Urban Dictionary, you'd get a whole different take on the song. Anyway, whether posting this song as a deliberate precursor to the fires or not, it was weird. And the song itself is weird. Not only was gasoline part of the equation, but a minuscule detail about gun lube would later prove to be monumental in this case.

The most pertinent and specifically in this case was the science surrounding the discovery of the nanoparticulates from a new molecule.

generation of gun lubricant that was being tested by an inventor at the time that was shared with Mr. Murray and also was discovered on some of the shell casings that were recovered at the crime scene. They met at a conference that puts together inventors and potential marketers

and I'm not sure exactly when that happened, but they got together and got to talking and the inventor, he had indicated to us that he was originally thinking of the lubricant for really large engines like jet engines or generators and that sort of thing. And Roy Murray, who was much more interested in firearms,

On top of the evidence collected and any hints Roy Murray may have given, the suspect, whoever he or she was, was spotted. We spoke with a deputy on the scene.

He was unable to commit to an interview with us, but he did agree to record his account of what happened three days later on a stakeout. On May 28th, 2015, I was assigned a crime scene protection at 20 East Shadow Rite between 1800 and 0100 hours. At 2240 hours, while I was observing the house, I observed a shadow figure in the garage at the address approximately 50 feet from where the initial crime had occurred.

When the officer's light came back on,

He was stunned to see a shadowy figure wearing all black running east toward the neighbor's driveway. I announced my presence and drove my patrol car up to the neighbor's driveway to attempt to cut the subject off. I exited my vehicle and attempted to locate the subject in the open field to the south of the residence using my flashlight. After a couple surveys in the field and no subject being seen, I started back from my vehicle. Upon reaching his car, he decided to give one last look.

shining his light into the pitch black field. He witnessed a dark figure emerging from the grass. The subject started running southbound. I announced my presence once again and radioed for backup. I told dispatch that I was in pursuit of the subject. The male appeared to be around 6 foot 2 inches tall and between 130 and 140 pounds. The tall, skinny fugitive

was wearing all black and seemed to know the area fairly well, since he was running through a field much faster than your average person would. The terrain of the field was very rough and uneven. I stumbled multiple times while attempting to catch up to the subject. It appeared that he was very familiar with the area, as if though he had been there a time or two. Unfortunately, the officer was unable to keep up with the agile suspect and ultimately lost sight of him.

With only circumstantial evidence, but a strong lead in the direction of Murray, investigators collected what they had and called him in. When it came time for detectives to interview Murray, he told investigators the night of the fire he was camping with friends near the Palouse River, but wouldn't give the names to collaborate his alibi. There was much more to come though.

It now looked possible that one or more of Murray's camping buddies may have been the murderer, or even that politics was once again at play. Then on Saturday, detectives asked Murray to drive from Spokane to Lewiston for a second interview inside the sheriff's office, and that's when Murray told deputies that Colbert murders were actually committed by... Committed by someone other than Murray, of course.

But we're going to let you hear for yourselves in this interrogation audio. It started with a female professional partner and her snitch. So, um, David, pretty good. Do you know who he's working for? Oh, I got an idea. You can just fill it up for me.

So I worked with Haley Gentry. There's a job that has been to, I thought it was JTF2, he's been to the house where Mandy and Lisa Terri were living.

And he's also been to her place, where I think she is right now. I haven't talked to her recently, but I can call her right now if you want. Oh, sorry. So, you're Haley Gentry? Yeah. I know who she is. She lives in North Idaho. I know she was your girlfriend because you guys had a rapport together or some sort of relationship. More like a professional partnership. Who does she work for? British DEA. Okay. And you think that...

Do you think she's like a CI for the DEA? Or do you think she's a TA? I don't know. And you're concerned for her safety? Is that what you're concerned for? And because this other person that was a snitch has been to her house and to Terry and Lisa's house? Yeah. And who is this other person that's a snitch? Armand Casson. Armand Casson.

That's a lot of intelligence to get my dumb brain around.

But Roy went even deeper, bringing none other than Russian spies into play. It's because of, yeah, I'm pretty sure there's some kind of Russian involvement. Okay. I was recruited into intelligence, shall we say, about 2006. I'm not going to lie to you. I was a reconnaissance guy. And I've now, I'm now, I'm out. They let me go. I got the intel. I don't think I was supposed to deliver it. So I've got multiple intelligence.

You've heard the term red herring, I take it?

In forensic debate, a red herring is a statement or piece of information unrelated to the actual subject and is meant to throw the opponent off track. Well, Roy Murray was slinging a whole net full of red herrings at detectives. I mean, the guy was practically a fisherman and it stank of rotten seafood. He was probably hoping that his intelligent gibberish would intimidate them. And he was wrong.

Next up was the Mandy was a secret operative getting intel on me explanation. This dude watches a lot of Louder with Crowder, apparently. I was first approached back. Well, I believe I was targeted by Mandy. I don't think she knows. Targeted means? I'm an intelligence target. Oh, I mean, surely I forgot about it.

Back in 2009, I just happened to meet her. I think her mom may have also been involved. I think she may have actually been the agent. Which would explain, I don't know the exact timeline, but I remember that she happened to be working overtime at Mandy the night that the house was attacked.

Murray meandered his way through the interrogation as he sat in a long table in a forest green t-shirt and jeans, always giving the proper gesticulations to accompany his many details, even if they didn't make sense. At times, he couldn't configure any more scenarios and would say things like, "'Sorry, I'm racking my brain. Things are just starting to click.'"

I think it was somewhat, you know, since they worked in intelligence and he seemed to know something about a Soviet group or Russian group called the FSB. It never really made a lot of sense to detectives and made even less sense after the fact that

You know, the story changed as it went along, so they never bought into it. They did go to where he said he was camping and they did some investigation there, and they couldn't find any evidence with a park pass or anything like that or anybody that's seen anybody that looked like Roy Murray. So there wasn't a lot of credence given to the notion that he was down there at a campsite. And of course, they were never able to talk to anybody else that would be able to confirm that.

He began naming agents who may be involved, all of whom in one way or another were somehow connected to the slaughtering of Amanda's family and decimation of her home. What made it difficult for detectives was that Murray actually had a background in the military, and some of this just might be true. So they kept sifting through the debris.

This time sorting fact from fiction coming from Murray's scrambled mind. Who were you working for? Unbeknownst to you? The CIA. Who told you that? He's still active. So, can you tell us what he told you? No.

Oh, they didn't agree very much. I mean, I know him very well. I've seen him around with his son, so it's not someone I don't trust. He just was never even in the open before. Back to secret agent Amanda, Murray's wife. Murray was, of course, concerned about her in more than one way. So how would Mandy be involved? I don't know. Exactly. I mean, say you recruit someone. You know, you get their...

gain their trust and get them to feed you certain information for whatever reason you give them that's within the parameters of their moral construct. You know, well, not necessarily a construct, but then they bring that back to you and they don't know who you actually work for. They may have an idea than you think you are for someone else, but nobody tells the truth in this business. So, it's

Who would Manny have had contact with that you know that may have recruited her or be involved? And why would she recruit her? What information would they, what kind of asset information would she be able to provide? I had just gotten, started getting known in politics within about

A year after we met, I went through PCO election, district leader, and was on the slate to become a senator. I was a high-voting target for political operations. So they would have used her to extract information about you, to watch you. And there were a couple of operations set up, like in Vegas. I'm not sure if that was my guys or them, but somebody wanted me.

Fascinating as Murray's geopolitical saga was, detectives needed to accomplish the goal. They were instead allowing Murray to take them down a long and winded tail, and they desperately wanted this terrible movie to end. You know how you invest a lot of time into watching a movie that you know from the start isn't grabbing you?

But you can't stop watching until almost the end when you finally say, fuck it, this is dumb. And by then you've lost at least an hour of your life that you're never getting back. It's kind of like listening to lore. The detectives were getting to that point with Murray. All right, so we get into that because you're still worried about the two of them.

Yeah, okay. If she isn't involved, or she doesn't know she's involved, she's listening to be tied up. If she is, then... We definitely want to get into that, but yeah. Yeah, let's do this. The reason I brought you here was so you guys can hear on the clear, and then what I want you to do is, as much as you want to, spill your guts about this side of it so that we can hear that side of it. We need to get you out of the way so that I can't even keep going through any of this. Because you're here in our office.

Let me establish a couple things. You drove up here this morning from Lewiston voluntarily to meet with us, right? Yeah. And you know you're not in custody at this time, correct? Okay. You know what your rights are? Tell us from the beginning, let's go to 25th. Where you're at, what you're doing, who you're with, those kind of things. 25th is...

25th is the day before the incident. It's Memorial Day. That's Memorial Day, Monday. Okay, the 25th. Woke up in Walla Walla. I was wanting to move my computer. I was planning on setting up in Lewiston, but got over there late in the morning, I think. Went to...

date ninja vaporizer shop. Went to Safeway and then right about two men called me. And in a comfortable conversation, we'd been dancing around doing paperwork on a divorce. So we talked about that, agreed to do a mutual non...

Hmm. Now they were getting somewhere. Divorce, you say? Amicable? Healthier? Apart, you say? Perhaps? Maybe?

Sounds like a live and let live situation, according to Murray, that is. He continued laying out the day, saying that after talking to Amanda, he went and hung out with his friends before heading home. He then diverted the topic to someone else who could be the culprit, a militia extremist he described as shit.

But Murray didn't feel he had the capability to carry out something like the killings and the fires. They were getting somewhere, but it definitely seemed like Murray was constantly usurping control, deliberately distracting and confusing the detectives. I mean, he's the smartest guy in the room, don't you know?

Is there a hierarchy, a structure for the... More like, don't get caught, do whatever the fuck you want. But nobody's in charge of working for the other... No, no... If I have this clear so I understand. What's the name of the... Okay, so you got Bobby here, and then you're telling me that Bobby's got some snitches, and one of those is Armand. Yeah. And who's the other one you said...

It was so difficult to get a goddamn straight answer and sort through the twisting timeline that the detective resorted to a whiteboard. At least he didn't have a map with the pins and ropes connecting everything, I guess. Like a teacher trying to establish dominance in the classroom, pay attention students, that only lasted for a few minutes before the whiteboard was no longer effective at all.

Frankly, he ran out of space on it, and detectives were running out of time.

That's pretty awful. FBI was following me for a while, but...

When was it? When? On the back of the game, it was a Dodge van. So they picked you up at a corner?

Anything else been happening around you concerning, say, let's say since the 23rd, 24th, like the 26th?

It's totally like an action movie. White van, FBI being followed, attempts at intimidation, fires, families annihilated. But every possible lead had to be ascertained as fact or fiction.

So detectives went to the site Murray said he was camping just before the fires, and there was no evidence that anyone whatsoever had been there. Next, they started tracking down people matching the names Murray gave them. This chase was ridiculous. One male named Bobby said that his brother Lucas had information of value, but Bobby didn't want to give out Lucas's phone number.

He wanted to be in control, so he contacted Lucas. While speaking with Bobby, they learned that he had, in fact, lived in Russia and was part of the Russian military. After finally locating Lucas, Lucas's mother came onto the scene and informed police that Lucas and Bobby were not brothers, but had known each other since pre-high school. She added that Robert is a little bit mental.

and never had anything to do with Russia. When detectives checked Murray's phone, no calls had ever been made to either one of these contacts. And after the interview, it was found that there was no probable cause for arrest Mr. Murray for three counts of first degree murder in reference to his death. So what would make someone wipe out an entire family of his wife even if he didn't want a divorce?

Was he crazy? Like his wife Amanda emphatically stated the night she pulled into her home to find everything she loved was gone? Was it simply an act of control? Murray was unable to let go of Amanda and decided to wipe out everything that stood in the way of their marriage. Or did PTSD cause Murray to lose it after being triggered by something or someone? Whatever it was, this scrawny nerdy killer

already had a reputation. To know him was to be terrified of him. A lot of people have been reluctant to testify because right now there's no guarantee that Murray is going to be convicted. Friends and even ex-family describe Murray as a man obsessed with guns, someone who had often contemplated the steps he would need to take to get away with murder. Murray called it shooting and scooting.

Amanda Constable is so afraid of Roy Murray that today she asked the judge to let her take shelter in the witness stand before Murray was led into court. A lot of people were. They were actually very afraid of Roy Murray. All the witnesses that testified were very afraid of Roy Murray, I believe. Most of them said it, and they said that if you guys don't get him the first time, don't be thinking you're going to be calling me for another round because you'll never find me.

It is no wonder witnesses didn't want their faces shown in court. If this well-armed doomsday prepper could take out an innocent family because things weren't going his way, what else was he capable of? Residents of Colbert were in fear for their lives. This episode is brought to you by Allianz Travel Insurance. Are you planning two or more trips in the next 365 days?

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Become a VIP now. Log in or sign up today to earn 100 points instantly. Amanda and Roy Murray were married only a few years before Amanda began noticing controlling and obsessive behaviors. She also maintained that Murray had PTSD from his war experience in Iraq. As a veteran, he suffered injuries and was, in fact, diagnosed with PTSD.

Amanda wanted out of the marriage and her parents were encouraging her to follow through with a divorce. She moved back home with her mom, dad, and brother, not realizing that she should cherish every moment of the days leading up to May 25th, 2015, because those days would be her last ones with them.

That morning she finished an extra shift as a nurse and arrived home to a chaotic scene. The home and barn were on fire. A woman's shot up corpse now covered in a yellow blanket. A deceased male found in the barn and another found in the house. All of which were her family members. She immediately pointed to Roy Murray.

Between 12:30 and 2 o'clock, but fires didn't get set until 2 o'clock in the morning. So the state's theory, and I used it in closing argument, was that Mr. Murray, who did not know that his wife, she normally gets home about 12:30 in the morning from her shift. And on this particular occasion, she wasn't there.

And she got home at 3.30 in the morning as it was. She had worked in overtime and Mr. Murray didn't know that. So the state's theory was nobody hangs around a scene in which they've committed three murders and waits 90 minutes before they set fire to the house and leave unless they're waiting for somebody. Roy Murray lay in wait as if he were still at war, ready to ambush the enemy.

But in this case, the enemy consisted of three innocent victims. Speculation suggested that Roy's PTSD was to blame, but Spokane veterans were not happy about this conclusion. Here, Dr. Quinn Bastian, Navy veteran and chief of behavioral health services at Mann-Granstorf VAMC, addresses misconceptions about PTSD.

PTSD starts with a trauma, something so horrifying, something so awful that it just won't leave you alone. I want to be really clear about one thing. PTSD does not cause violence. As someone who works for the VA trying to help veterans every day, it deeply disturbs me when PTSD is brought up whenever there's a tragic event in the community. PTSD does not cause violence. We know that there are risk factors that cause violence, and PTSD is not high on the list. At the top of the list for violent behaviors...

is evil. Pure evil. Prosecutor Larry Haskell told us that detectives close to the case voiced their opinions.

Well, the only thing that I can say, and it wasn't brought up at trial or anything like that, but of course, you know, we have a lot of discussions with law enforcement as we prepare for a trial. And we had talked about, you know, some of these behaviors and some of these allegations by Mr. Murray about involvement of...

you know, secret agents and the FSB and that sort of thing. And one of the detectives told us that in his opinion, and again, he's not a trained medical person or anything like that. He said, you know, Roy is just diabolically evil. With all the paranoid ramblings by Roy, suggesting secret government involvement, Russian spies and snitches,

It would seem reasonable to assume that Roy may have had other mental health issues. Prosecutor Larry Haskell explained why this was probably not the case.

Well, you know, I only get to know what the defense allows me to know about that. I never heard Mr. Murray speak other than from the interviews that were recorded, that were played for the jury. There wasn't any obvious indications, to a layperson anyway, or certainly to the police, that he was suffering from any mental disabilities.

And what the defense knew, they kept to themselves. But I know I've been doing this job type of work now since 1998.

And I can say that they will not hesitate to bring a revised code of Washington 10.77 mental health stay if they suspect that their client is disabled to the point where they can't assist in their defense or possibly didn't know right from wrong at the time of the commission of the crime. There you have it. Roy Murray is very likely a sane but controlling an evil monster.

Despite his attempts to manipulate the narrative, the evidence was everywhere, pointing directly at him. After getting a search warrant for Murray's car, detectives found a Walther P22 semi-automatic handgun, a box of .22 caliber cartridges, and bloodstains on the driver's seat and floor mat. At his house and in a shed on Murray's property,

More guns, a dozen cell phones, flares, gas, and many more pieces of evidence making him the culprit. Although this case was largely circumstantial, two items were essential in linking Roy Murray to the scene of the crime. Number one, the special gun lube that no one but the inventor and Murray had access to. And number two,

A gift from Murray to Amanda. The estranged wife actually couldn't remember the name of the inventor, but remembered the name of the inventor's wife. And she was also to determine what items were missing from the house. And it was determined that there was only one item that was missing from the house, which was also helped to tie the case to Roy Murray.

It was a Taurus 38 revolver that he had given as a gift to his wife. And he had expressed displeasure with her on a previous occasion that she didn't take good care of it. And it was missing from the house. Interesting that this was never about the money, given that $3,000 was not missing. But because Murray was pissed off about the way Amanda treated the gun he gave her, he stole it.

right after luring her father to the barn and shooting him, returning to the house to shoot her mother and brother and torching the place. Thanks to some good detective work, investigators were able to uncover Roy Murray's deep dark secrets. For a while there, it looked like Roy Murray had committed the perfect crime. Three innocent people executed in and around their home, the killer setting a fire to cover his tracks.

With no DNA or fingerprints, Murray's public defenders asked the jury to acquit their client in what was a very circumstantial case. But prosecutors said everything about this divorce gone bad implicated Murray as the sole suspect. Despite hearing four weeks of testimony, it only took 12 hours of deliberations for the jury to find Murray guilty, including attempting to murder his now former wife, Amanda.

She was in court today and embraced the detective who brought her ex to justice. Murray killed her little brother, and today John Constable's father thanked prosecutors for their hard work. This same jury also found the existence of aggravating factors in all three of these murders, which means Roy Murray will now spend the rest of his life in prison. Murray's sentencing now scheduled for January 12th. The trial took place in November of 2016.

And it couldn't have come soon enough for Amanda Constable. Murray sat motionless and showed little emotion as the judge handed down three life sentences. Friends and families of the victims cried as they learned the man convicted of killing their loved ones will spend the rest of his life behind bars. Amanda could not have known that her decision to save herself from Roy Murray would cost her life.

Her whole family. The fear that my family and the people around us experienced, wondering if the monster was just around the next corner, trying to find places to hide. Terry and Lisa Canfield's family found themselves together again, with their two adult children returning to the nest after failed relationships. Terry and Lisa were said to be madly in love with each other, according to everyone who knew them.

Terry was an outstanding human being and role model, which made the irony of finding his firefighter's helmet on the ground beneath flickering flames all the more bittersweet on the night of his death. Terry was able to leave a legacy in his daughter Amanda, and he also left a legacy through his wisdom in a video he made about his personal philosophy. Hi, Terry Canfield here.

I was watching a video by Brendan Burchard at the High Performance Academy, and he challenged us to make a video that might help change lives. And so here's my video. And just to give you a little background on me, I've been in the fire service since 1979. I'm a fire lieutenant. I've been a paramedic since 1981. And I don't say that to impress, but to let you know that before the fire service, I had never seen a dead body. And since I've been in the fire service, I have literally been in the presence of thousands of people dying.

And that makes an impact on you, and I wanted to share what impact it's made on me. And that's to remind me, reinforce that we are multi-dimensional beings. We live in the physical world, our physical bodies. Everything on this side of death is in this body. And I've been in the trenches trying to deal with injuries and illnesses for 30 years. We're also mental creatures. We need to exercise our minds as much as we exercise our bodies. That's what separates us from most of the other animals.

We're emotional beings. And I put these on a scale of ascending order. Emotionally, that's more important to me than physical or mental, because that's the color of life. That's what makes life what it is to us. That's the depth. And if life to you is just a black and white movie or sepia, you need to stop dying and start living.

And lastly is we're spiritual beings. There is something on the other side of death. I believe that with every atom in my body. I'm almost at the end of my career and I want to stop helping people one emergency at a time. I want to get out there and be a catalyst in changing people's lives. And if this helps you, you're welcome to it. And that's this. Don't take this life too seriously. But don't ever take it for granted. Roy Murray

took life for granted. Not only the lives of the family he stamped out with no remorse, but his own life as well. He survived war and the severe physical and mental injuries that it caused only to end up in prison. That's because he could not exercise control over his anger and his need for vengeance. If he couldn't have Amanda, no one could.

Not only did he refuse to allow Amanda and her family to move on with their lives in the way they wanted, but he refused to allow them to live at all. The family's ashes were buried and Amanda's life will forever be altered.

That's going to do it. Thank you for joining us. We have a new show called Sword and Scale Nightmares. It's available on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Please check it out if you can. Thank you so much and stay safe.

So

Hey, Mike. This is Tony calling from Costa Mesa, California. And I wanted to leave this voicemail not really for you, but for all the other listeners out there of your show. I've got a couple points that I want to make. But for all you guys out there who are listening to Sword and Scale and listening to it via any other app other than the Sword and Scale app,

you're doing it wrong. Go to the app store, download the Sword and Scale app. These guys did an amazing job building this app. It's got all of the features inside the app. It's amazing. And leads me to my next point, get Sword and Scale Plus. Sword and Scale Plus is amazing. You guys need to get it. It's so worth it. It's one of the best subscriptions, the million subscriptions that I have right now. Go get Sword and Scale Plus. Don't waste any time.

Love you, Mike. Keep doing what you're doing, family, to hear more stories. All right. Bye.

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