Episode 590: Sovereign Citizens vs. Mormons w/ Natalie Jean & Amber Nelson
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You did this to me last night. Don't you do that. It's like white Lucy going to sleep. She went, which turned me on.

And I went, oh, I did this. Now I'm Cab Calloway. Yeah, you can't do anything from the Blues Brothers before we go to sleep. I know. It just came out of me organically. Everybody needs somebody to love. Everybody needs somebody to love. I just did it again.

So you're gonna kill them. Oh, we're never gonna kill them. We're not gonna be able to do the episode. I need you, you, you. I need you, you, you. Borderline sovereign citizens. Blues Brothers were, yes, sovereign unto themselves, but they were the good kinds. You actually asked for it?

Amber asked right before the show, is there an example of a positive sovereign citizen? Yeah. It's the Blues Brothers. Yeah, it's the Blues Brothers. The best of them all. Because you just showed me clips of guys that look like they smell like milk. And I'm like, is there like a Steve Irwin guy of

sovereign citizens. I also like that that's what you view as the perennial safe man. He is a good man. He is, but I'm just saying the idea of the concept of the being Stephen Irwin of

Sovereign citizens is very funny. Because one of the inherent qualities of being a sovereign citizen is having zero charisma. Right. No, officer, I won't give you my ID, but I will give you a kiss. Well, okay. Okay, well. And Steve Irwin was obsessed with buying land for conservation.

something a sovereign citizen could not do. No. No, they sometimes do occupy land. It's actually closer. Yeah, for themselves. For themselves, not for saving animals. We're already starting the argument here. The sovereign citizens think far and away is still happening. It's true. Welcome to Last Podcast on the left. Now, you're not hearing the dulcet tones of Marcus Parks, which was supposed to be the beginning of a brand new giant true crime series, which we will be having next week. Mm-hmm.

But Marcus got COVID. So he is alive. Well, that's for certain. He's not dead. He's OK. We were texting about assault on Precinct 13 last night. That's where he should be right now. Has he tried not submitting to the COVID? I've asked him to. And unfortunately, he has not found the proper public defender to help him.

But welcome to the last podcast on the left. So today we're going to be trying, it's going to be an experiment. I'm Henry Zebrowski. I'm here with the other last podcast on the left host, Ed Larson. Hello. But I'm having this very special joy of sitting with some of the loveliest women of podcasting. Your hands are clammy. Yes.

Yes, they are wet in anticipation of our conversation, my dear. It's fun that you're still surprised that his hands are clammy. It's only when we're in here. At home, they're extremely dry. I have a little towel that I use. But we have with us today Natalie Jean and Amber Nelson of Some Place Underneath and The Brighter Side. That's right. Hello. And Akatar Deep Dives. Yes. Yeah. He forgot about you.

No, I'm just saying. Yes. He probably doesn't want to think about me and his sister talking about fairies fucking each other. Whatever gets you lubed up for me later. It doesn't matter where you work up your appetite as long as you eat at home. Yep. You come to the old Shoney's buffet that is my body. Nope.

I'm sorry I started like this. You guys still love each other, unlike sovereign citizens that always have their ex-wife. Thank you so much for bringing us back on topic because, yes, sovereign citizens are largely ex-husbands. But welcome to today's episode where I'm going to try to sort of give a brief, now hurried, quickened,

bring up of Sovereign Citizens because I was planning on doing this episode and leading an episode on Sovereign Citizens. Watch how Eddie led his series last two weeks. Award winning. Award winning. The horrors of SeaWorld series that we did. I can still hear it. I can still hear it till it comes to this day.

But while we found out, obviously, very too late into the week that Marcus had COVID, what we wanted to do was like, all right, now I can present what I have. I can present my obsession to someone else. And I've decided to bring the dynamic from Natalie and I's home back.

to the podcast so that people can hear us talk about our own separate online obsessions. Now, the reason why I specifically brought these two lovely women in is because someplace underneath for their current next season, we'll be covering the crimes of the LDS church.

Yeah, season four will be focused on the crimes surrounding the community of the LDS Church. Which is the Church of Latter-day Saints, which is Mormonism. It is. But which I didn't know until like a couple years ago. Like it's one of those things where it's like they kind of like were doing the shady thing where like changing their names in different ways. Yeah, they did. They were Mormons for a while in about the last decade or so. The leadership said that is a slur.

We are called the Latter-day Saints. So I have to say the M word now? Yes, please, if you would. And then you have to really, though, say M as in...

Marie. Bad word. Right? That's how people know which one you're referring to. And it's interesting because sovereign citizens also view the term sovereign citizen as a slur as well. What do they like to be called? They like to be called many things. Freeman of the Lamb. ZZ Top fans. Oh, ZZ Top season pass holders. Don't bring ZZ Top into this. We can now. They might.

share facial hair similarities the audience is pretty straight-up MAGA dads you don't want to talk to anymore unfortunately and then you have American nationals a private citizen and let me do a little bit of a run-up of what sovereign citizenship just kind of to sum it up now that we're talking about on the show though can we stop talking about it in our real life unlikely

I said I'm bringing our real life dynamic to the show. I just wanted to know. I want to see where these two difficult groups, mostly American made, where they touch tips and where they bump butts. You wanted us to come on to talk about something that we will be covering in different capacities on the season, which is there is a formula.

form of sovereign citizen-ish thing that goes on inside the LDS church, which is called

Yes. And I want to kind of see where they all come from, because the origins of sovereign citizens actually connected deeper to fringe LDS movements than anything else. So the sovereign citizen movement, as much as you can call it a movement, is a anti-government extremist movement whose adherents believe the government is the illegitimate product of a conspiracy that subverted the original lawful government.

So the idea was that the United States of America was itself the United States of America, pure and free into the year 1789, where it was taken over from the inside by corporate interests and has basically turned us all into the government's an occupying army.

And we are all its prisoners. What businesses existed in 1789? Horseshoe salesmen. Baked bean guy. Yeah. Flag sewers. Yingling. Mud sweepers. Yes. These are important jobs that were being taken by British people that were the problem

back in the day, much like our acting jobs are being outsourced to the fucking UK, to the Australia. I know. It is being taken away from us. And that's where I become a sovereign citizen. But that's it. That's makes sense why MAGA people are kind of directly connected to it, because it is that made up history that that time back

before when things were great. But now they never it never existed. And in these corrupt documents that they use, like they use stuff like that. They're both kind of they're around the Constitution. So the concept is that the Constitution is fake and invalid. And there's a series of codes that they used during from pre like essentially pre 1789 that

Thank you.

you know, like obeying any form of traffic law, especially with DUIs, especially with parking permits or like any of that style of shit. Traveling cocaine. Yes, especially if it's super, super low level, they will fight it to the highest extent because they believe they can issue a certain amount of commands that will magically free them. So they're like, so say I'm drunk driving. I get pulled over. I can just say a magic phrase to the cops.

And he's like, whoa, I guess you got to go on your way, miss. Well, it's about the idea is that, yes, it is illegal for you to. Yes. Illegal for you to consume alcohol and drive a vehicle. Right now, according to the sovereign citizen magic realism concepts.

That is actually, you're traveling. Driving means that you're driving a commercial vehicle for commercial purposes. And that's what driving is, is when you're driving a ice cream truck where you're slinging ice cream out of the side of it while actively taking Venmos while you're driving, right? So the idea is that you have to be, but if you're not, you're traveling. So yes, I'm drunk and

And I happen to be inside a car that's moving. But I'm not driving. I'm traveling. And you can't tell me in what state I need to be in for me to travel. Wow. So my question, why don't these people just go live in the woods? Like just go build a cabin in the woods? Because there's no electricity, cable, or internet in the woods. I think they like the concept of causing problems.

They want the fight. Yeah. They would be bored without the fight. They're just a little bitch, I guess. Yes. Basically, it kind of reminds me of people who really are obsessed with the Mandela effect. Oh, no. Don't bring up the Mandela effect. No, I think it's a lack of taking responsibility for your actions.

Well, it's also the sheer belief, which is where it connects and we'll bring it back around, is the idea that every American citizen is just a temporarily embarrassed millionaire. We are all these special flames that no one can understand. Because also one of the big reoccurring themes within the sovereign citizen movement is this concept of personhood. So there's an idea that you are your own soul.

But the United States government creates personhood, which they sell you a fake line of goods, right? Of saying, oh, we give you these privileges such as driver's licenses, car registrations, all these things that you would think would maybe help you or whatever you could use for the system. Right. But your birth certificate that you're issued then attaches you to this fake

fake constitution that basically does not encapsulate your very soul. The capital words, H-E-N-R-Y-V-E-B-R-O-W-S-K-I. This is the official posture at all times. It's like this, that is on my birth certificate is not me. That's the personhood that the U.S. government has forced upon me. My soul, as Henry...

capital H, lowercase e-n-r-y, capital Z, lowercase e-e- You forgot the colon and the apostrophe. No, we're not at quantum grammar yet. Okay. Now, I just want to go ahead. Two things I want to say. I know you're going to be listening to this and you're going to be like, Henry, what you're saying doesn't make sense. We know.

All right? That's kind of the problem. And the second thing is I want to establish right off the bat that sovereign citizens are way different than people who live off the grid. Oh, people who are off the grid I like. Because...

Because guess what? They're not on the grid. Yeah, no, they're just not on the fucking grid. And the socialists and fucking sovereign citizens are very much so on the grid. Yeah, they need electricity. They're not resourceful enough. They need attention. To, you know, live in the woods and be able to, like, forge for their own food and grow their own food and hunt and stuff like that. And when you talk about soul and personhood, I'm guessing, according to their perspective, they only mean men.

Well, no, there are some ladies in there. They're just...

Super difficult. It's still like very much steeped in extreme right wing, which is patriarchal, though. More often than not, these are ex-husbands. But like somebody was saying before, it does also touch tips with the extreme leftist, like mommy who doesn't believe in doctors. And unschooling. And unschooling, yeah. Yes. It does somehow get there. Now,

The beginnings of the sovereign citizen movement, I actually think are really interesting. One is this group called the Posse Comitatus. Now, this was a loosely organized, it was an American far-right extremist social movement in the 60s. This is all a reaction. Every single thing, as we've noticed, this seems to be a common thread, is that these things come about as a reaction to things changing in a positive way civilly in the United States of America.

The posse comitatus basically came about because of the civil rights movement. And they were a direct reaction. They were an immediate reaction saying, oh, that's going to give that's giving the country over to a bunch of savages, essentially.

The members spread a conspiracy-minded anti-government and anti-Semitic message linking to the white supremacy. Now, it's kind of interesting because it's all folded together. This is like one group. This is the political side of it. They believe that the Jewish community seek to help Satan. Eddie, can you comment on this? Destroy civilization and undermine white citizens' rights through the Federal Reserve and the IRS. Yeah, they believe that they're the true Israelites.

Well, yet to break off, that's the other side of it, which is the Christian identity religion, which is this idea that there are the tribes of Israel that left and that they went through the Caucasus, which make them white people. And that those magic white people. That's fully Mormonism. Oh, fully. Again, another one of those. Those are fully white people. And they were the true chosen people of God. Right. And that eventually, like it.

Well, now they're trying to kind of soft it. They're trying to soft the edges of it by trying to say like, oh, no, we're saying that. Yes, we call the two seeds within the world, which is the one seed, which is the proper group of Israelites that turn into white people that are the actual true sons of God. And then there's the other side. It used to be the non-whites and Jewish people that they said were the

unchosen people, but actually now they're saying it's actually more so the evil Jew inside of you. You know what I mean? That it's not that you're Jewish, it's about the evil Jew inside of all people that eventually hurt you. They believe that all Jews made a deal with Satan to be successful.

You know, honestly... You look so upset, Ed. I'm sorry. But these are the beginnings. I just fucking hate these people. To me, this is a lot like the David Icke episode where it's just like a bunch of people fucking...

vomiting nonsense so they don't have to face responsibility. But it's very interesting that you're bringing this up in, it makes sense, but within the LDS church, their origin story is very similar except they're not talking about Jewish people. They're talking about indigenous and black people. Yes. Oh, no, it's almost like they all use the same old stories and

to base their whole worldview on it because in the Mormon community... Instead of making any effort to build a personality or learn stuff... Hold down a job. It means that you're inherently... You're inherently special. You deserve things. Wow, it's crazy how every religion is like, no, I'm right.

No one's ever like, that religion's right, but I guess I'll be over here. What's interesting is that they all fight each other, but they're all kind of based off the same shit. I do think one thing that made the posse comitatus the true special sauce of the sovereign citizen movement is the fact that they believe, which I think is really funny, is that there's no such legitimate form of government above that of the county level.

And the only, the highest law authority in the country for anybody is the county sheriff. And that anybody, anything past that is not anybody else's jurisdiction, which is why you hear sovereign citizens ask stuff. I want you to state your jurisdiction and why you have jurisdiction over me. Because they're trying to say, unless you're my specific county sheriff, you can't tell me what to do. But then when the county sheriff shows up, they oftentimes don't want to do with that.

person has. It's like a toddler. They say that if the sheriff then doesn't agree with them, then the sheriff shall be hung at noon and taken down at midnight. Very prompt exclusionists. It seems like it's very much somebody who can't get past their own

their own eyes. They can't, they have no empathy? Is that what I'm trying to say? Yeah, I think so. Well, in a lot of religions, like in how I was raised, you know, I was raised LDS, but I was fundamental. Empathy is considered a bad thing. Right. You're not supposed to be empathetic. You're supposed to like take the thing out of somebody else's hand and say it's mine now. Jesus was all about fucking share me, eat my cum. No, no, no.

Yeah, I know. He got paid for washing the feet. Yeah, I forgot. I forgot that he did monetize that. And that actually, a lot of those guys, the 12 disciples, there was a subscription service that they had to pay each month for

for them to hang out with him. That's right. And Mary Magdalene had her own OnlyFans. Whoa, yes. Yes. True, again. Yas. Yas. Yes, girl. Boss bitch. So now, like, that's kind of the antiquated versions of sovereign citizenship that then has kind of turned it into now. So it's like all of that old shit, old school...

kind of truly scary racist, like the silver shirts. Ever heard about the silver shirts? Silver shirts were ran by a true detective villain by the name of William Dudley Pelley, who's the guy that wrote the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which is he faked this fake thing about the basically

The concept of the Rothschilds being embedded in the Illuminati and essentially the massive Jewish conspiracy. It was invented by this American that created this group called the Silver Legion of America, which were pro-Nazi Americans before Pearl Harbor. So this was like when Pearl Harbor happened, they decided to say, essentially, much like people who've left the Scientology or these other religions, you know,

Hitler kind of went a little crazy, but Nazism has a lot that we can really kind of look up to. I mean, that's all of X now, isn't that the only thing that's left? Very much. Yes. So this is where all this came from. And now what we're seeing is this new sovereign citizen movement that has pretty much come out of every single time bad shit has happened inside of the United States of America since the early to mid 80s.

Now, it started in the early mid-80s because of the severe recession. There was a major farm crisis, which created a whole world of really angry, disenfranchised right-wing people. And

And then again, another huge surge in the mid to late 1990s because of the Oklahoma City bombing. Because what came out of that and the fact that Timothy McVeigh did not operate alone. Timothy McVeigh had an entire support system. Elohim City, essentially all sovereign citizens. The same exact shit. We're seeing these extremely dangerous communities also coalesce now thanks to COVID. Thanks to 2020. Everybody going wild.

way deep online, getting even harder fucking radicalized because of these essentially sovereign citizen gurus and influencers. Like the Oat Keepers guy. The guy who shot himself in the eye? Yes. He was in prison for 18 years now. Are these the same guys that were found in that truck with the khaki pants and the masks on their face? Basically, it's the three percenters that was...

Every fat-faced loser that we're dealing with right now has some connection to this movement. So Timothy McVeigh, Terry Nichols were sovereign citizens? They called themselves patriots, but they were not. They were essentially sovereign citizens. They just didn't know. Now a sovereign citizen, capital S, capital C, is pretty much about like you have to be trained.

in sovereign citizenship. What does patriot even mean? Patriot means you're a fucking pain in my ass. And normally it means you have some form of action sandal. And a lot of times it means you are giving me a one star on iTunes. If I hear somebody say that, I want to walk into a different room. The word patriot is not, it is no longer a fun and good word.

No, it's not. Not that it ever was. No. Patriot has become just a way to say, like, I hate you. It almost describes the idea of loyalty, which I also connect to, like, religious groups where I feel like the concept of loyalty is...

Because you're essentially inferring that you need to be loyal to someone who has done something shitty. Well, why do we have to be inherently loyal to anyone? Right. Because you earn loyalty, but people seem to say, no, I demand loyalty no matter what. And that's kind of what the word patriot feels like to me. I will say, though, then you're slightly tiptoeing into Sovereign City.

like philosophy because they do ask, they ask a very toddler level political philosophical question all the time, which is why do you get to tell me what to do? But that's not what I'm saying. I'm not saying that because I understand why some people have, some people, I do understand that, that feeling, that sentiment of being like, I don't like getting told what to do. Of course. Yeah. But,

Sometimes you're told stuff to do because it's better to do the things you're being told to do than just letting your fucking, you know, your ego mind run the show. We have a thing called rule of law in the United States of America. Sometimes laws are bullshit. Of course, I completely agree. But there's stuff like when you watch my countless videos of watching sovereign citizens get arrested and body cam footage.

you have a judge like they there are very stupid arbitrary rules but some of them are there for a reason right where a judge is sitting there there is a sovereign citizen who's being arrested for possession of marijuana she is saying I want to sit in the audience like the audience shared like you have to walk up to a podium right to in order to talk to the judge and the reason why is because the

camera's on you, and there's a microphone on you to protect you, which they don't understand is for you. It is for your words to be recorded in court so that the court can't lie about what you said in court. But they see it as the opposite. They have their shithead friend behind them filming them with a cell phone, not realizing, number one, you're not supposed to bring a phone into the court, and number two, it's all filmed, which is also totally open for you to go get. You can go and get a Freedom of Information Act. You can

pull all of your tapes. All of that is open for you. They show up and this lady does not want to walk from the audience part to the pulpit. She refuses. And she's like, I want to give my case from here. And he's like, there are... I need you to stand at the podium. And she's refusing. And he's like, I just need you to stand at the podium because that's how I can hear you. And that's how the judges... That's how everybody can hear you. And she's just like, I'll just yell from here. And he's like, no, you...

You don't understand to the point where she's now fucking arrested again and they have to go bring the bailiffs out and they got to fucking zip higher and they got to. But she left it. Of course. This is her favorite thing. I don't consent. But the thing is, you force their hand in this really fucked up arbitrary sense where it's like, yeah, I get it. It sounds like nonsense to move to the pulpit, but they have a bunch of weird practical reasons. If you just did it, it'll be over. It'll be over.

It's why they can't actually be off the grid, because the process of doing all this and having the persecution, the persecution, I think, is what they want. Right. It's like histrionic personality disorder. That's if like I get attention, even if it's bad, it's still attention. I love it. People are talking about me. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. Oh, that's the sound a ghost makes when it's sitting down.

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It all starts at CUS.org. Federally insured by NCUA. Equal housing lender. Now, I think where we all really get together, our two favorite obsessions touch, is the way that they group. So, sovereign citizens...

It is very rarely that you see a sovereign citizen that has not had some form of training in their nonsense. Okay. Normally, they have some form of guru. That's mostly why when you see them getting arrested on YouTube, they're always got some guy on the phone.

They always got somebody who's talking them through what they're supposed to say or they have a series of papers that they're supposed to present to the police officer, which require which makes them do what? Hit you on the head with their nightstick every single time. Cops don't like it. Never works. There's never been a single case in the history of the United States or international judicial systems that has won any one of these tactics have ever worked.

So it doesn't work. But where they come together, that's where it's at. So like there's one called the group called the Montana Freeman. This is an extremely dangerous group that came about in 1996. Now, this is right after Waco and right after the Oklahoma City bombing. So they use that against the United States government, knowing that they would have to be handled very carefully.

So no one, because they didn't want to deal with the same exact fucking issues. And they were all armed to the teeth. Oh, very much so. The Montana Freemen, they were part of the Sovereign Citizen and Christian Patriot movements. They, of course, they didn't want to pay taxes. The big thing was not paying taxes. And they also did this thing, which is a very common tactic within Sovereign Citizenship, which is called paper terrorism.

Now, paper terrorism. I do feel terrorized right now. Oh, yes. What they would do is they would make fake checks and money orders and they would try to fraud the U.S. government by sending and paying their tax bills with their own very detailed fake checks. Yes.

They created their own banking ledgers and they also would jam up various like political enemies. Like people had stuff to say about them and judges. They would send these fake forms into their offices filled with all of this fake legalese about how they can try them for essentially false crimes and for for such a thing that they did a bunch of false crimes. It's crazy. They'd rather do this than get a job. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. A lot of them are rural workers. A lot of them are like, you know, welders, like that style of blue collar worker. I wouldn't even... I don't... They have jobs? A lot of them do have jobs. They just don't want to pay taxes on their paycheck. I'm honestly shocked that they're skilled... I mean, I know skilled workers is like... It doesn't mean anything, but I can't believe that they have...

like real jobs. Some of them do. Not all of them do. Trust me, plenty of them just sit around and drink in a trailer. Plenty of them do. Yeah, that's my envisioning. I would say that's the majority. I even imagine most of them are living off of government checks while also doing very much so. There's no reason to have a job if you are a sovereign citizen. Right. Well, it doesn't matter because your job is like you are a part of the grid. So if you choose to have a job that

is paid by American tender, you are not a sovereign citizen. You have given into the system. Even though, if you are a sovereign citizen, you learn about being a sovereign citizen by paying your internet bill and buying a computer and having a camera pointed at you at all times. See, but those are unalienable rights and those were created by God himself. You see, that's what you don't understand. The roads were put there by God. They were already there. Verizon is God? Verizon's been here forever.

Since the Sioux. What? Did you know that? Yeah. Yeah, since the Inca. Wow. Yeah, Verizon was one of the original. Sprint actually did Easter Island. Ha ha ha.

Wow. Did you know that? Yeah. Yeah, they actually just merged. Sprint Easter Island just merged with T-Mobile. So it's going to be Sprint T-Mobile Easter Island soon, hopefully, because I love to watch my companies get together. Now, I'm listening to you say all this stuff about sovereign citizens, and I can't help but get a little worried that the IRS isn't going to take my IOU.

You see, the way you got to do that is, according to somebody like David Wynn Miller, you have to put in a copy of the syntax, the proper, you have to rewrite it in a bunch of fuck ways. Yeah, you fucked up. Yeah, you just put the grammar in. So with the Montana Freeman, the reason why is that, so up to this point, the United States government kind of decided to let these right wing groups sort of just sit. They

figured like ever since Elohim City, ever since Ruby Ridge, they were like, well, what we're going to do now is like they are, they, as long as they're not bothering anybody, they could be assholes alone.

And of course, that never happens because it always spreads. So what they did was they eventually called for the, they held their own court, the greater their own court. The leader of them, of the Montana Freeman, was a guy by the name of Leroy Schweitzer, who is this total idiot. He named, they renamed the town Freeman into Justice Township, J-U-S-T-U-S. He named himself the head, he's the Supreme Court judge,

He is the county commissioner because that's the top seat that you can have in any county and in any government structure. And he started with this no taxation, get out of jail free cards. And it turned into we're going to go kill a judge. So they held a judge. They had a trial for this judge. What were the steps in between that? Essentially, they were squatting.

on, uh, in various pieces of property that they were going to come and kick them off of. And they decided because they were squatting because they were free to do so. They felt that because they could just take this house, they thought instead they needed to go kill that judge. And then they started stockpiling guns. And that's when the United States government got involved. And then it,

turned into an 81-day standoff where they even had to go get the guys from Ruby Ridge. They got the guys that they talked down, like other right-wing guys, to bring in. The FBI brought them in to kind of negotiate with all of them. It took 81 days and they finally surrendered. Even their shootouts are tedious and boring as fuck. Very, very long and boring. The Ruby Ridge guys are like, listen.

Not going to work. It's not going to work. We tried. We gave it our best. You guys, we had a lot more guns than you did. But each one of these leaders I have found offer a little bit more of an insight into the thing as a whole. Where like one angle that he said that I thought was makes total sense was that our duty as private citizens is we need to teach ourselves to prosecute for ourselves.

because we need to always be prosecuting, never defending. Is it like the guy that drove his van through the parade? Oh, Daryl Brooks was a, he very much was expressing his right to drive his car through a parade. And like almost kill people? He did kill people. He did? Yes, multiple people he killed. Oh yes, and he was very much a sovereign citizen and he did represent himself in court and he did violently lose.

I can't believe it didn't work. Oh, no. It seems like they don't seem to have any other. It never works. It literally never once works. Honestly, fuck that guy so hard. But this is what we're dealing with. Like, the stuff like January 6th, it all came straight from these movements. Like, these are very, very large pains in the asses. Like, what are the Mormons' view on this?

U.S. government has. They're unfortunately really closely tied to the U.S. government. So I think that there's that stripe inside of the prepper community in the LDS church. And I'm saying this, by the way, as a complete outsider. I've only just been obsessed with and speaking with a bunch of people who are two years. Yeah, they they do have that stripe of rebellion and like do not comply kind of stuff. But really,

The LDS church in general is so connected to the U.S. government and to police and to like authority figures in the country that they can't really be that deep into it. They like really are like two steps from essentially the attorney general of Utah. Because the church doesn't get taxed. And we've driven by one of the churches that is huge and gorgeous, like a lot of money thrown in that. So they could just throw it at politicians. I mean, they have more money than a lot of tech companies. Yeah.

But my question is, is that they do they not view in some way that they are

Yes, they are housed within the U.S. government, but they do sort of have a higher allegiance. Well, so with the, yes, because they believe that the end is nigh at all times. They're called the Latter-day Saints because they're supposed to be the last saints, the late saints. Is that why the Great Salt Lake in Utah is slowly evaporating and putting toxic gas in the air? Unfortunately, a lot of the sort of high control groups like that

are sort of rooting for pollution in like the end because they're about to... They're trying to trigger it. Right. They're trying to trigger the end times. That's why they believe in Donald Trump is because they think that he's the antichrist that is going to...

the end. Right. I saw a TikTok of this woman washing dishes and she's like, when you hear the trumpets blaze and then you know God is coming down and you're washing dishes and then she like fakes like getting up and like running out in the street like she's about to be saved. And she's been like, bitch, if you move to San Francisco you won't have to wash dishes every day. I think this is your problem. I understand you're miserable.

You don't want to wash the dishes. I get it. All you want is for the world to end because it's the only way you think your situation will stop. Yeah. High control groups like that, though, kind of prey upon that idea of like the reason you give us a bunch of your money and you're doing all these stupid things and you have to wear these uncomfortable underpants at all times is because you're going to have this way better life afterwards. Like if you just keep letting us take all of your shit. Right. We're going to make sure you, I mean, you get to fuck.

seven or eight different women on your planet, like, every day. They're going to just take care of you. I've seen that Sister Wives show. That's some pretty finger-licking activity. Compelling, right? Life is suffering. That's the core belief, is life is suffering. And afterwards, you get your own planet. The husbands do. Yeah, and that's obviously, like, that's...

an oversimplification of the entire process, but that is ultimately the crux of what a lot of people believe. But the Prepper community inside the LDS church is not the vast majority of people. Although the entire church is based on the idea of the end times and child marriage, essentially, a lot of people inside the church are just like really normal. Yeah, they're just trying to go along to get along. They're trying to sort of move towards the center.

in a way these days. Now they're trying... The capital M Mormon church. I mean, the church leaders aren't really moving. No. They're just doing that to like... It's like a hook and bait. Like, get them in here. They're trying to stick around. Yeah, they're just trying to stick around. They're also trying to more connect to Christianity, like mainstream Christianity by using crosses and more stuff because they do believe in the Bible, but...

The Book of Mormon is their own little rebrand, kind of like their own storyline, which is kind of making America and both Americas sort of where all of this stuff actually happened. Yeah, they believe Jesus came to America.

Yeah, yeah, they were just hanging out in Indiana. Well, yeah, there's several different models. Some of it's Mesoamerica, some of it is literally like the Great Lakes area and like Missouri and stuff like that. So even though that's like in the back, a lot of the practicing members aren't thinking about Doomsday all the time, but

The prepper community is really thriving in a lot of ways. Oh, yeah. And so they're kind of doing the same thing. Well, I believe the prepper community and the this type of militia activity are pretty much neighbors. They are very, very close. Child marriage, too. I bet there's no age of consent in sovereign citizen. I'm just going to guess. A lot of sovereign citizens know the age of consent of every state. You know what I mean? I know that.

There we go. It's a little bit of libertarianism. Yes, they all can list where they love to go. All preppers, though, aren't bad, though.

Right? I feel like the best they get is neutral. The best they get is not hurting anybody else. I always think of the guy from Tremors. He just seemed like he saved the day. That's a problem. Every once in a while, they do. You can be a prepper, but I think the prepper community is not necessarily super healthy. I think it's usually based around

kind of fetishizing and fantasizing about when everybody's going to die. Well, that's the issue is that in order for them to be right, everyone has to die. Right. And they're excited. And within the prepper community in the LDS church, it is based around the doctrine of the Book of Mormon, which is...

144,000 people will be the chosen ones to have like the promised land. So some of these guys are just betting that they're going to be in that final group? Anyone connected directly to the LDS prep world, which there's many little pockets, but one of the big ones is an online forum called Another Voice of Warning. And you essentially have to sort of believe that you are

in that group because you are preparing for what they call call outs, which is you get the day comes when finally all of your work is like being now you get to show everyone. But

It's just going to a bunch of tent cities and bartering with each other. But it will lead then to prosperous lands. But you have to be ready for those days. And if you're ready for those days, you are obviously... Logic would dictate you are one of the 144,000. Didn't you say something about the cigarettes? Like they're hiding cigarettes to like barter at the end of days? Yeah. So the...

One of the daughters of the guy who's currently running Another Voice of Warning, which is the acronym's Avow, his name's Christopher Perrot. His daughter, who's an adult woman, has been speaking out pretty freely about all of it. And he himself had been prepping before he even joined Another Voice of Warning. And he actually was an LDS convert. He was not a because most LDS people are legacy, like their family has been in it for two centuries. Right.

He wasn't. He joined in because of his, like, I think he latched onto the idea of this sort of, um,

I'm chosen. I know what's right. I have broken through the matrix. And I feel like that's the reason why it works within the LDS communities is because within their theology, they have built in that you can franchise and it's legit. And then if you franchise, there's like a built in mechanism within their religion to support doughy fucking idiots.

To essentially declare themselves little lords of little kingdoms and essentially out of either pure ignorance, the people around them, or fear, literally fear of just the entire church structure as a whole, they are forced to believe them.

And they do a lot of times actually believe them. Of course, because they've been indoctrinated for forever. People are following Chad Daybell and saying that he was charismatic and just, you know, I just believed what he was saying. He's got fucking balls.

Winnie the Pooh gut. Just a refresher, what did Chad Daybell do? Chad Daybell and Lori Vallow, power couple of 2021. They are actually right connected to the LDS prepper community, including another voice of warning. Chad was friends with Christopher Perrault

And he was one of the few people who actually voiced how innocent he knew they were because he talked to them up until they found the bodies of the children of Lori Vallow. He was fighting for Chad and Lori saying, like, you guys just don't understand us. Like, all the truth is going to be revealed. Don't you worry. And then, of course,

Of course, you find out they've been essentially a combination of family annihilators slash serial killers. Yes, they are a full criminal family. I'll send you all the stuff, Eddie. You should watch the documentary stuff that I have on it. But they did this specifically because Chad Daybell and Lori Daybell... Lori Vallow is her other married name, so a lot of people call her Lori Daybell. They...

were certain that they were the leaders of the 144,000. And they were certain. Everybody is. Right. Everyone, every other cult leader in the LDS church thinks they are. But they've used LDS doctrine mixed with prepper doctrine to justify killing multiple relatives, spouses, children, because they, I think it was three summers ago now, they were like, July's the time. Oh, yeah. Each time. I mean, it's hot.

Oh, it is. It's hot out. You know, it's July. It's getting there. Where I'm certain to see is that I think that sovereign citizens and the LDS fringe groups, they both sort of represent a true. These are American phenomenas. Oh, 100 percent. And I think partially what it shows the two sides of the spectrum. One is the LDS side, this fringe LDS side, which is that.

Everybody has in America that is ignorant, right? Kind of maybe has a belief. And one day I'm going to get that call. That's going to say I'm King Ralph. We're going to get the King Ralph call. Yeah. I am going, it's going to be discovered that I am a super important person and that everything that I'm going to need is going to arrive at my feet. I think that's one stripe. And then the sovereign citizen is on the other side, which is I can do, I can lift myself up.

out of any circumstance I'm in. Despite all evidence to suggest the contrary. Despite all evidence, inside the whole world, because I know I'm right. You know, and that is another style of the American idiot that is just this like, I can, the whole world is going to be on its ass once I show them what I learned from the fucking, what I learned from Steve. I,

I would say that most of us in entertainment have the same stripe in us where we're like, I'll show you. I'm going to keep working and I'm going to be big. Yeah, totally out of fucking spite. But I also just do fucking different racist accents. That was my comedic oeuvre. Right. So I think that maybe the difference would be that

People in entertainment with that same... The refusal to accept reality is that you just are doing that because you want to make art as opposed to maybe overthrowing the government or beating your children or...

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I feel like, honestly, we've reached a point here. I want to teach you guys more. Some specifics about... I want to unlock you guys. Because I think we've been talking about a lot of shit here. I feel pretty locked up. Yeah, you are. I can already tell just looking at you. Because I've been sort of taking on a critical stance of a lot of these sovereign citizens. Only just because up until yesterday, I was unaware. And I didn't know the tools. And you're free now. Look at me.

Yeah. I can almost see my nipples through my shirt. That's how hard they are. You have a gun on your belt. Yep. No, that's just my outside penis. Yeah. And so this is a guy. So I want to get you guys through some of these guys. I love these are some of the superstars of sovereign citizenhood. Okay. This is a guy by the name of Robert Arthur Menard. Now, this guy, he is Canadian. He had his children stripped of him.

And he was really upset about it. And then that caused him to start wearing this little African hat. I don't know if you can tell. He's wearing a Neil Peart hat. He looks like one of the guys from Something About Mary. He does. Oh, very much so. And he has six steps to show you what happens and why the government and how you know when the government's fucking lying to you. I feel my vagina just sucking into my body. Hey, this is, you know, I like working out of a dip. He looks

It's like he has nunchucks in his basement. Oh, he's nunchucks in his car, Amber. So here you go. I just want you to listen to some of this man's wisdom. This comes from his seminal documentary, Bursting Bubbles of Government Deception. Oh my God, it's an hour and 20 minutes.

I watched all of it. I got 20 minutes in before I started yelling and shut it off. This is really, just want you to touch of what kind of like one of the lessons. Can I fault sovereign citizenship saying that I refuse to listen to this? That unfortunately then kicks you back into the system. The next one is the mirror's.

Smoke and mirrors. And chemicals.

Who is they?

The government.

If you never investigate, if you never step up and touch it and go, hey, look at this. It's just glass. You will always be deceived into thinking that this reflection is a reality. It's not a reality. Thank you. See, that's just simple. That's just simple. So he's not based in reality. Got it. No, he learned. It's the six biggest tricks, because what you got to do then is there is slight of hand and they're sliding. One of my favorite concepts in sovereign citizenship was when he brought up this concept of, so you know.

One of the biggest tricks that they get you to do in order to deceive you, right? They hide the monkey and they slide you. Is his child the monkey? I think they did hide his monkey. They didn't hide his monkey from him. Because he said there's a concept of what they do is that you notice every single time they want you to decide something. They want you to sign something.

They need to get your permission, right? You've agreed to it before even signing by touching the document, by doing this thing they like to do called sliding, where they take the document, they slide it across the table at you, and guess what? You pick it up voluntarily. You've agreed inherently to the document without even signing it.

Got a little Irish there. He also said, don't register your children. They become a registered person, which makes them quote unquote chattel goods under the Constitution Maritime Law, which are floated then as collateral for international loans. So this is one of the many reasons why some laws are not...

are not the worst things ever because when you don't register your children, that means that they can't be traced in case they are being, I don't know, kidnapped, assaulted, abused. They're free. Why are you assuming these kids are going to do something bad? They're not. Their parents probably are. That's what I like to think. That's what I'm hearing when you say all these things because it sounds like a child is just seducing an adult. There's literally so many cases that we've covered on Spun that involve people, part of communities who don't register children, who are literally children

non-human beings because nobody even fucking knows they exist and that is terrifying. Maybe those kids have to understand they have to listen to Robert Arthur Menard when he says, remove the person from your humanity. That is the seed of freedom. I don't want children anywhere near that man. He'd still be with his kids if the government didn't know they existed. I mean, that's the problem.

See? Right. My question is, say, like, no one knows you exist. You're 10 years old. You walk up to the courthouse and you say, hi, my name's Timothy. Timothy, Timothy, doo-doo. Timothy doo-doo? And then, like, do they find you or what do they do? I think it's probably...

per case because sometimes probably CPS and DSF and all that stuff would come in. Normally they take their child, box them up, send them to Lindsey, they send them to Lindsey Graham. Oh, okay, great. And then he fucks them to death. He would become a foster child and given a social security number and stuff like that. Yeah, they get fucking yoked. That's what happens. They get the fucking burden of personhood. That's not even fully true though because if it's certain religions like the Amish and stuff, they don't lose their kids for that kind of shit.

And it's one of the reasons that those kind of groups, not because they're evil, but because there's no one overseeing or checking in on them. A lot of fucking abuse happens suddenly. Well, it seems like a lot of times when people don't want any laws, it's because they're doing something with their hands. It's little.

I also see it the other way, too. I see, like, a lot of times when people are really, really, really obsessed about children getting trafficked, they're somehow involved. Eddie, what are you talking about? Jared Fogle. So, Jared Fogle, as we know, you guys might know him. You guys all love him. The sandwich guy. Used to be fat. He's so thin. He's so skinny now. See, I find Jared Fogle, in many ways, a victim.

Of there being just so many rules and everyone being so uptight. See, Gerald Fogle was, he was obviously, he was convicted of child sex tourism. Molesting those sandwiches. Yeah, child pornography cases, charges, right? But he actually, in 2017, tried to get himself out of jail for,

by declaring himself a free man. He said that the court, he went to go have the court like say, you have to dismiss my entire family

Criminal like history. You have to because I said so. You have to free me because he that the Fogel's arguments. Well, he's over here that he was a sovereign citizen and the court had no jurisdiction because his real name was Jared Dash Fogel. Full colon. Got to try. What else are you going to do in prison? Got to throw spaghetti at the wall. Everyone else. Yes. Learn to suck dick and learn how to make cool prison food that people like feel that you're needed.

That's what I would do. That's bringing up the people obsessed with child trafficking stuff. That is actually something that we're going to cover quite a bit during the season because a guy named Tim Ballard, who is like really deep into the U.S. government and is high power inside the LDS church, has been doing this like pseudo thing.

saving children in third world countries and is currently facing many assault charges. What do you say he did? He'd be like, hey, do you got any kids? Do you got any kids? And the poor families would be like, yeah, I guess you can take my kids. So he's like creating child trafficking. Yeah, I mean, it's just one of the many issues with him. I heard one of the major causes of child trafficking is refusing to yield.

Oh, yeah, definitely. For sure. But he he's actually only about a degree of separation from the prepper community based on the fact a lot of the LDS sort of, I don't know, spicy stuff in the in the modern era is talking about near death experiences, which is something that also sovereign citizens do. Well, I'm so glad that you brought it.

Because that brings to the table my favorite sovereign citizen of this episode. Oh, good. Which is my favorite guy, David Wynn Miller. Oh, yes, sir. Now, David, you got into this. Now, my favorite concept I discovered in my research was quantum grammar.

Quantum grammar. That's not, it doesn't mean anything. Is this like your English teacher does math? Is that what this is? Yeah, he definitely, he's got a full head of raven hair. Now, David Wynn Miller sadly died in 2018. No one knows how or when. Nope, just died. His death date on his Wikipedia page just says 2018. Yeah, that's it. I mean, that's the way he'd want it.

He doesn't want you to know nothing about him. He wanted to be known as David Dash Wynn Full Colon Miller. That is his sovereign citizen name. That way he becomes a fact. Yes, because before that he was just nothing. Was he poisoned by hair dye? He was. He was a tool and dye welder.

He created what is known as quantum grammar. Now, what he believed was that he died on the, he had appendicitis, and he said that he died on the operating table for 14 minutes, and when he came back, he had a 200 IQ, and he saw through the veil.

of the way we all speak and why we have such problems with the U.S. government is because we are not talking correctly. Is there something with like brain damage and near-death experiences and like religious psychosis that just kind of... See, this guy is not even religious. This guy is just full of vinegar. I will say I think that there's probably some truth to that because we talk about TBIs a lot with like really weird crimes. But the

I think with the Mormonism aspect, it's the near-death experience is having somebody who has gone through the veil. That's the idea. They saw this other planet we're getting to. Specialized access. Oh, yeah. It's sick as fuck. And they're like, all right, I believe you. I'm listening. Yes. Because you saw it. So this thing that I've been doing for my whole life is...

This person says they saw where we're going, and so now I'll listen to them. Has anybody ever been to hell and come back? Yes, multiple times. Not in the church. Not in Mormon church, but yes. You can't sell merch and books and stuff if you say, oh, we're going to hell. Yeah, because you were bad. You were the bad one. Yes. Now, quantum grammar, the true difference here is that

You can pray in one hand, you can shit in the other and see what gets filled first. But when you're using quantum grammar, you have immediate results. It really does work. It's a powerful form of grammar. He also calls it, I believe it is called the quantum language parsed syntax grammar. And again, he saw through the veil. Here's just a little example of how he figured it out. Oh, God, I don't...

And we're going to start off using the math interface to show you how this works and how we broke the code. If you take your math problem, 2 plus 3 equals 5. You want to check it. It's the beginning of the 9 hours. Plus 5 minus 3 equals 2. You want to multiply. 2 times 3 equals 6. Do people pay to go to those? 6 divided by 3 equals 2.

But she shouldn't be allowed to take money from the summer season. Now this all came about, right? He pays for things in gold. That's true. He says he paid for his daughter's tuition in gold. Well, I'll just use this. Spider notebooks. Remember, some of you got something with the red line down the side here? Well, the way this code got broke was on April 6th in 1988. Now for three years I worked out math problems and nothing seemed to work.

Now one morning, I got up half asleep and I wrote 1+2=3, 3-2=1. On the red line, went and got my coffee, some toast, came back and I said, but when I sat down, it was faced this way and I'm going, "Oh, that's a graft." So I grafted it. And when I grafted it,

I broke the code. This is like me making up hieroglyphics to my parents. Look what I did. Yeah, when you didn't do your homework. If you listen to it, we can stop it for now. We can stop this fucking gobbledygook for a second. Now, it is just hours and hours and hours of total nonsense. He's filibusting his way out of paying taxes. Yes, you're right. Dude, but on some level, much like David Icke, who I feel like now, upon when we did our David Icke series, what I've now kind of learned about him, unfortunately, was that

He did so much writing and talking that his life was extremely uninteresting because all he did was like compulsively write and do speaking engagements. This guy is very, very similar. Hugo is go ahead and call himself the head of the dislike, essentially fake version of the U.S. government where he called himself a federal postal judge because there's a thing. The guys get really into this idea that the mail is.

And the mail system is the other like secret real hierarchy of America, which is why his main pupil, a guy that somehow makes this guy look exciting. A man by the name of Russell J. Gould would go ahead to call himself the new federal postmaster of America after he died.

Now, I remember you, I watched the other video where he was explaining how Hawaii was taken over by white people, which I agree with. But then he was also stating why he deserved to be there, even though he's a white person. It's always that way, man. It's always except for me. Yeah, dude. Ask Mark Zuckerberg.

Yeah, and so I remember he was doing this, and he was just spouting nonsense about grammar and the way to talk and the way to move around stuff to make sure that I'm not a verb and that I'm a fact. Here's an example. But every time he said something stupid, he had...

off screen, which I assume is that guy, to say, I concur. Every like four to five minutes, like an unseen person. He gets his little John. Now, according to his syntax, you have to begin each sentence with a prepositional phrase and each sentence must end with a prepositional phrase and you cannot use adjectives, adverbs, or pronouns and you have to use punctuation to make the words inside the sentence mean other things. I even

This is so insufferably boring. This is my favorite obsession. Getting his words out into the universe right now. This is my favorite shit. This is my absolute favorite stuff. So this is an example of the sentence that he wants you to write. And if you learn how to write this way, the government gives you money.

For the forms of our punctuations are with the claim of the use, full colon, full colon, equal sign, position, dash, lodeo, facts, comma, hyphen, equal sign, compound, dash, facts, equal sign, known, comma, period,

Equal sign, and dash, thought, comma, comma, dash, pause, and location, dash, tildes, with the meanings and uses of the communications with a full dash colon of the position dash, lodeal, fact, dash, phrase, with the fact slash, known dash, term of the positional dash, lodeal dash, fact dash, phrase, and with the void of the nom de guerre, equal sign, dead,

dash person. This is like my parents reading a website to me. It says http dots. And he says that he's the only guy with his consistent or that who can really write it fluently.

I mean, yes. Of course he's doing that. I agree with that. It's like Tolkien with Elvish. Is a language really a language where only one person can speak it? No. No. No. Also, it's just like a... It's like a Todd's version. I'm going to go ahead and say no. It's got to be at least two people. It's not like a comprehensive language. It's just like if a little kid was like, put a bunch of letters on a piece of paper and was like, I made a wangwidge.

It's my language now. It's so interesting. Okay, yeah. Oh, thank you. He would go on to say, wow, I completely understand. He would go on to say that he had a billion students that span.

And that he also said Bill Clinton and the Supreme Court of the United States learned from him. Wow. And that's how they got that. Yeah. I feel like he has nipples the size of Tic Tacs. Oh, yeah. I'd say, oh, man, I'd say Mentos. He also claimed he did turn Hawaii into a verb. And then he became the king of Hawaii. Because that's what they deserve. Is this similar to the Queen of Canada? Oh.

Oh, very much so. They all just feel like if you declare it, like the guy, Russell J. Gould believes that if, because there was a gap when he died, he filled in the proper paperwork that allowed him to be in charge of the United States of America because

Because they believe the Universal Postal Union is the super national authority because a lot of shit found in the organized pseudo legal commercial arguments book that they essentially source a lot of this from. I do think it's interesting. He definitely he said MasterCard getting control of the U.S. economy in September 17th, 1999. And then he was obviously 9-11 was an inside job. Very much so. Anti-vax.

And he also said the reason why we are based on maritime law is because Earth is a vessel in a sea of space. Oh. Wow. Or one big boat. Hell yeah, man. That I can kind of get behind. I concur. Yeah, I'm kind of cool with that. I concur. Yeah, where's the Lido deck? It's a big boat.

It's weird that they don't want to follow any American law. I do my own thing. But then they just want to put forth their own law. And their own laws, it seems much more strict than the American code. Well, it just serves them specifically. That's it. It doesn't help anyone else in any way, shape, or form. And in fact, it hurts most people.

But for them, it's their special, special boy laws, special girl laws. Right. Can this stuff therefore take off the ground? Because it seems very self-centered. And in order to create a movement, you have to think of the people and the movement and us together as a collective. This is not a collective. Well, they, when I find it interesting, because I do think that there actually is a collective amongst the quote unquote students of these people is that they do kind of weave

been joking about with QAnon where like the real thing is about making friends along the way that it's really like it is it really is about it is so lonely and it's about community so these people that are inherently isolated and inherently lone wolves meet a bunch of other people that are very similar and there is a sense of community and

And I do think in many ways they think, oh, we're bringing each other together and we're supporting each other, even though not a single tactic we have ever used has ever once worked in a court of law. And that I feel like maybe is differing a little bit from the prepper community in that within the LDS, I would say. Well, their results haven't come yet. Well, that for sure. And they do have leaders who.

But they already had a community within their church, so they have their own structure and language already developed. And then also probably some scrupulosity and fear and maybe some compulsion issues with, like, being afraid of the end times because that is a terrifying concept. It is. And so they go into these communities, but there is a—it's a huge—like most things, unfortunately, in the Mormon church—

make a ton of money. And so like a vow, for example, has tens of thousands of you have to subscribe and pay a monthly fee to be a part of the forum. And so there's like, I think, 10 to 20,000, at the very least, people who pay every month to this

forum about prepping to be a part of that community. So to be in the tent villages, you mostly have to pay money every month for it. That makes sense. Sounds more expensive to be Mormon than Catholic. It's very expensive to be Mormon. Yes. You got to give a cousin Catholic Catholicism. The tithing is fucking optional.

Yeah. Kind of. Sort of. Yeah, they guilt the fuck out of you and they give you envelopes with suggested amounts out of pay. Thankfully, my mom was immune to the money guilt part of it. That's like the one thing she avoided. Good for her. So my question about LDS, like what if I snuck around and I didn't pay him? And if I wound up and I was 100...

I was one of the few thousand left on the end of the earth. Oh, you mean if the actual prophecy came through? Those two couldn't possibly, those are not mutually exclusive. I mean, they are mutually exclusive. There's no way you could be of that character and be one of the 144,000. But what if I didn't know? What if I didn't know that I'm one of the chosen ones? You would have been, but you would be doing good things.

It's sort of a circle jerk in the sense that you can't become that until you do these steps. So if you're not anointed and gone through all the processes, it's unlikely that you could be the last people. Wow. Because it's made up. It's made up.

I believe that most religions are just complete phooey. But the Mormon religion was... Eddie, the strong language. The Mormon religion particularly was one that always kind of freaked me out. Well, it's because we know the exact origins of it.

Unlike a lot of our other major religions where it's kind of faded into time. Right, right. We know who Joseph Smith was. We know what he did. We knew he was a grave robber. Trust me, bro. At a con man. Oh, yeah, yeah. We know everything about Brigham Young. We know that he was obsessed with little girls and shit. Yeah. Like, we know that about him. We know that these are not...

angels and gods. Right. They're just some dudes we can trace their family lines. And that's why it has some stuff more in common with Scientology, in my opinion, than some other religions because they're both more... Hey, Scientology's more fun. Right, it's a lot more fun. But why can't we find these golden plates? Because he was just like, I saw the golden plates, but I had to give them back. Sorry, you just have to trust me. Because you can't see them. If you were to see them, you'd burst into flames or go insane. What?

If you saw the plates themselves, I've heard this, and I know this might sound crass, your tits switch. Do you know that? It's crazy. You know, it's fine. You won't recognize yourself. It'll be fine. Everything's a mirror. You don't know about mirrors from Robert Arthur Menard. Right. I blocked, that's like a black hole of time. I took it away from me. It is crazy watching a religion happen in real time because we're pretty,

It's pretty new. It's developing. It's developing. So imagine like Christianity...

600 years ago and you're watching it kind of develop and being like that's a crazy religion I don't know about all that especially Catholicism because Catholicism was a straight up cannibal cult yeah whoa what it was a cult yeah you're eating Jesus every day yeah you believe in the transubstantiation of Jesus Christ so you believe that you're actually drinking his blood and eating his flesh which is pretty rock and roll pretty rock and roll it's awesome but it don't taste like it and they could be like that's crazy this Catholicism that'll never take off are we saying that about Mormonism

Well, one of the things that makes a religion last is either a big gap of time happens and then somebody picks it up and they're like using the magical idea of the past or they have a perfect successor that comes in like David Miscavige did. Even if it's not. Well, he was not the perfect successor. No, I know. But he was for the continuation of the church, not to L. Ron Hubbard. He didn't.

want David doing that. I actually felt if he had the two reasonable old people, the church would have went into a different direction. Yeah, but I think it would have collapsed. Yeah, of course. That's what I'm saying. To keep it going, you need a person to step in. I mean, it still collapsed. It's just a full sock puppet. But the thing is, it's just a gigantic real estate firm with nothing inside of it. They have millions and millions and millions of dollars. But there's only like 24,000 Scientologists, maybe. Right.

Yeah. But they don't... I mean, they just... I think they just want the money. Yeah, of course. How many Mormons are there? I know this is a Google search. Millions. Yeah, it's pretty big. I was wrong when I said it was like that big, but it's very large. So you could be a Mormon... But it's the wealthiest main church. It is. You could be a Mormon and pay all this stuff and devote your whole life. And then what if you're not a part of the 160-something thousand? Most of them won't be. And a lot of them who have paid in their whole lives and then realize they, you know...

They don't believe in it anymore. Or they fuck up in some way and they're, you know, penalized in the way they do it. Yeah, one of the tits fall out at the parking lot. Right, there you go. One of those things that they accidentally suck a dick. There you go. But then you die and you don't give your planet. And you're like, oh man. Oh man, I should have sucked that dick. There's 17.25 million Mormons in the world. Yeah, that's a lot more than a hundred and something thousand. Yeah, a lot.

I listened to that guy do math on that board, and I'm pretty sure that's more than 144,000 people. Yeah, it sounds like they are fucking... It's pretty low...

It's so weird. Pretty low fucking stakes or whatever. It's low percentages there. They do lots of missionary work. I know that. I remember in college they were always around trying to convince people to be Mormon. And my roommate at the time, he was a funny guy, the rebel. That was his last name. He wasn't a confederate. But I remember one day the door opened. There was a knock on the door. And I go to the door. And there's these two Mormons sitting there. And they're like, is Frank Rebel here? And I was like, what the hell are you? I'm Frank.

And then they were like, oh, well, we have an appointment with him. I'm like, Frank, there's some Mormons here for you. And then he's like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. They promised me a free Bible. And I was like, all right. And they come in and they're like, he's like, oh, yeah, you guys bring the Bible? And he's like, yeah. He's like, but we got to talk to you for an hour first. And so I had to sit there and listen to them talk to him for an hour while I was doing my laundry. Was it just for rolling papers? No, he wanted a Bible and he didn't want to buy a Bible. You can get a free Bible

so many ways. He was just wasting people's time. At the end of the conversation, they handed them the Book of Mormon. He's like, what the fuck is this? And they're like, it's your Bible. And he's like, it's not a Bible. It's the Book of Mormon. Oh my God. See? Never a satisfied customer. I truly feel bad for the missionaries because they are usually immediately out of high school. Most of the younger, it's almost all the younger guys in the LDS church go on a mission. Some women do. And they are deceptively

taking advantage of very young, naive people and forcing them into these incredibly dangerous situations. Oftentimes they're underfed. I hear that if Mormons come to your house, you're supposed to invite them in and feed them. But at least don't be mean to those kids because they're just, they're doing what they think they're supposed to do. They don't know what's going on. I say fuck them. Nah. They don't make the older people who run shit go do that because they know it's fucking

bullshit. Yeah, you tell them to get to fucking stepping. That's what I tell them. Now, I think what is nice, we'll come to the end of our discussion where the one thing that we do know is that because doomsday preppers

are waiting for everybody to die they do essentially become oftentimes very dangerous when provoked right they become very dangerous they are ready to go at any moment we talked a little bit about the montana freeman it was pretty close to that kind of same thing it's these weird sort of things where they sort of touch together but where sovereign citizenship is sort of kind of leading away is in creating the individual domestic terrorist somebody like daryl brooks who went

and ran, he used his SUV to kill six people in a Christmas parade in Waukesha. And he went and he represented himself in court where he found out that he was a full-on...

what you'd call a freeman of the land. And he did a whole big, like, crazy, like, talking about, like, all of this shit. And obviously, he didn't do well. Yeah. Because he went to jail. Oh, this guy. Yeah, this guy. The Wakasha? Wakasha. Wakasha. He even looks...

Really unhinged. I mean, he's not well. None of them are. I don't know if we've seen yet a full Mormon domestic terrorist. Let me look this up. It's more subtle. It's with their family. Well, I mean, the guy who killed his entire family. There was a bunch of people there. Their family's a lot of times... A lot of family annihilators. A lot of family annihilators. Higher numbers than this guy. Another one who was really well known is Josh Powell. He annihilated his whole family. Oh, yes. It's mostly family annihilators, but is that considered a domestic terrorist? Yes.

No, not by legal standards. No, no, no, no, no. It's like a serial killer and a mass killer are like two different things because serial killer is like over time, one person at a time, but a mass murder is like a lot of people all at once. You could argue, though, guys like Tim Bowler are committing terrorism in certain ways. Oh, yes, it's mental terrorism, but again, it's being subtle. It's kind of like how I was reading, yes, and I was reading about how one of the big common things

things in far-right extremism online right now is Stormfront put out a sort of notice to their users of we have to make it so our website does not look unironic.

You have to make your racism look ironic. Like you need to use memes, you need to use jokes, you need stuff like that. That's how you get young people. It is literally the recruiting process for young men, which is what they do. They go and they make all of these jokes about like,

Right.

is amongst young men because they just don't lonely young men it's very lonely and it's this idea that you can take control over a life that is inherently out of your control oh my because people are going off of dating apps it's too expensive to go party anymore yeah what are you gonna do you're gonna join one of these little clubs online well it seems a lot of people also have had their social abilities shattered over the last four years yeah and it seems to really lend to it a lot of

parents who aren't really paying attention to they don't really raise some of those kids a lot of those kids don't have a lot of guidance well what have we all learned what have we all learned today I've learned that I'm not going to let you talk to me about this anymore when we're driving to and from work I'm going to send you some stuff that go deeper into this

Is there anything else? Amber, what have you learned? I think more of these guys should go to a bar with women and go dancing, like a line dancing. I think learning, like having hobbies, finding joy is an important thing. Yes. If you have compulsive thoughts, just talk to a doctor. I know they're all cucks.

Doctors are cucks, of course, but sometimes you got to do it. Yeah. We actually, both of us have compulsive issues and we take medication and it really helps. And sometimes like you can be a little autistic and go get into trains. Yeah. That's okay. Sure. I love trains. That's totally fine. That's utterly fine. There's a community there. Yeah. You don't have to get into quantum grammar. No. My dream home has a basement with a little train, like a little bottle train in it. Now I'm scared of you.

I think it's kind of fun. I want that. Yeah. And it's like, just like it's cemetery and like an abandoned factory. I would just ram the trains together every day. I just hear me going like, ah, that's right. Let's get it anywhere. Listen, that's a hobby. And that's your sovereign citizen of your own train station.

station. Right. You can become sovereign citizen of your toys. Of your own house. Yeah. No, not of your house. No. I can dress the dogs in little uniforms. Absolutely not. I want to put the dogs in little uniforms. I don't want them all vote for who's daddy. Do sovereign citizens vote? No.

I don't think most of the time they do. Even though they're very pro-Trump, I doubt most of them actually vote. No, I think that they will specifically vote. Are you asking Google, Rob? Yeah, ask Google. I actually truly doubt that they do vote. They'll probably do this election because their guy is going up against...

evil, evil lady. I don't know. I don't think they even care enough. They want to be, they want to fill out paperwork when it causes annoying issues for everyone, but I don't think they want to go do things. Why they don't get driver's licenses, they don't want to fill that paperwork out and stand in line. It's also just the perfectly mixed group of con men and morons.

And that's a powerful, powerful stripe in a large part of our fucking population here in America. And I have no problems with our con men or our morons. But I want them to be aware of what they're signing up for. It's hard. It's hard if you're stupid. Right? Because they just don't... Because sovereign citizens, their whole thing is they're bad to the bone.

Born to be bad, born to be free. And in that way, I guess I must be the most sovereign citizen of all. Because I'm willing to talk about them in a way that celebrates them, but also constructive criticism. But it's interesting because I'm dumb and I don't do that. You're not dumb. Yeah, no. I'm saying a lot of dumb people. You're stupid hot. What's six times four, Natalie?

24. Look at that. See, you're smart. No, it's not. I actually had to do this the other day and it took me a while to figure out what six times four was. It was seven times four. Oh, see, he remembers. Oh, I don't know that. That's one more four! I know every theme song from every childhood show I watched in every commercial and that's where the math would have been. Of course, of course. And I now know about quantum grammar, which is why I've forgotten about our anniversary.

It's fine. Because again, it destroys love. When's your anniversary? October 13th. Now you know that. Yep. I remember. Now, go to patreon.com slash podcast enough to watch us do this and go to the, wherever you get your podcasts and look up someplace underneath with Natalie Jean and Amber Nelson. Season, what number is coming out? Four. Season four is coming out. And we're doing live streams every other week for now. We

We will be doing them as well when the season starts, but we're working towards season four. We're close. Yes. Coming up. I dipped my toe in LDS a little bit today, and there's a lot of fucked up shit you guys are going to be talking about. There's a lot of good people in the church, and there's a lot of bad shit going on. You're going to be begging for David Wynn Miller after their series. You're going to be begging for him. I don't think that's true. Hour eight of Quantum Grammar. That's where it really kicks in.

Go to LP on the left and various socials. That's where we're at. Go to twitch.tv slash LPNTV to see our new Twitch shows. I think that they're all wonderful, and when they are not there, they are on our YouTube channel. Go there and watch them there.

Oh, yeah. I want to give a shout out to the Last Prisoner Project. They have an official gala fundraiser party in New York this Tuesday, September 24th, 9 p.m. Go check it out. It's at THC NYC. It's a huge event.

Huge event. I'm so jealous. I want to go. It's going to be amazing. If you want, there is a if you're listening to this, there is a promo code for last podcast on the left fans. It's last 10. But please go. You're going to be smoking on the rooftop.

There's going to be all kinds of cool shit. They got DJs. They're playing movies. It's dance clubs. It's going to be unbelievable. Each floor is a different experience. They'll be giving you product to roll joints with while you're there. That's awesome. There's this like...

Look at this weird room you can take. Everything's super trippy. You're making me jealous. I'm so sad I'm not going to be there. Hopefully they do one in LA soon. It seems like the coolest time in the world. But go support them. If you don't know what the Last Prisoner Project does, they help people in jail for marijuana. Interesting how sovereign citizens don't try to help people get out of jail. It's because that would require...

some knowledge of the actual legal system. If you are a sovereign citizen and you want to go, please bring $75 worth of gold coins. You have to bring gold tender, yes. They will take your tender, but you have to bring your own scale. So when you go buy your ticket on Eventbrite, the official Last Prisoner Project Gala After Party, go check it out and type in LAST10 for 10% off your ticket.

Thank you, Eddie. Thank you. Go join them for a good cause. Go smoke it up and have a good time. And go to lastpodcastandleft.com to buy all of our live shows. We've got a bunch of stuff coming up. You're going to like it. You're going to like it. And next week, we're back with True Crime. Amen, baby. Hail Satan. Hail the Last Prisoner Project. Let's get it. I don't want to... None of these other fuckers deserve a hail. Hey, one day, people, you'll all understand my new sub-quantum grammar. Oh, boy. Oh, God.

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