#545 - Google Map My Murder - Cary, North Carolina
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Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about one of my favorite things in the world, Audible. Oh, audible.com or that app. Oh, I give that app a workout. Let me tell you something. Listening on Audible helps your imagination soar. You can listen to anything. There's so many genres on there. There's more to imagine when you listen. And let me tell you something that makes my imagination soar in a terrible way. I've been listening to Secrets in the Cellar. Oh, boy.

Which is by John Glatt, and it's about Joseph Fritzl and locking his daughter in the basement for decades. And it is... You want to talk about imagination of who's the devil in a human skin? That's the guy. So check that out, or a whole bunch of them. As an Audible member, you can choose one title a month to keep from the entire catalog, including the latest bestsellers and new releases.

Audible's the best. Let's be honest here. New members can try Audible free for 30 days. Visit audible.com slash smalltownmurder or text smalltownmurder to 500-500. That's audible.com slash smalltownmurder or text smalltownmurder to 500-500. Now back to the show.

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Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds. Recently, I asked Mint Mobile's legal team if big wireless companies are allowed to raise prices due to inflation. They said yes. And then when I asked if raising prices technically violates those onerous two-year contracts, they said, what the f*** are you talking about, you insane Hollywood a**hole?

So to recap, we're cutting the price of Mint Unlimited from $30 a month to just $15 a month. Give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. $45 upfront payment equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first three-month plan only. Taxes and fees extra. Speeds lower above 40 gigabytes in detail. This week in Cary, North Carolina, when a respected local woman goes for a morning jog and ends up missing, the question is, did she ever even go jogging? Or is it all just a big setup to throw the police off the scent? Welcome to Small Town Murder. ♪

Bye.

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you so much for joining us on this another crazy, wild edition of Small Town Murder. This is a crazy one. Let's do it again. Oh, boy. We have relatives with all sorts of evidence. Oh, man. Blogs full of...

Police corruption and it's wild stuff. We'll get into all of it. It's crazy. So it's got a lot of... It'll sound a little familiar as we go through it. It reminds me of a couple other cases. We'll talk all about that. Before we do, though, shutupandgivememurder.com. Oh, yeah. Go there right now for...

everything, merch, tickets to live shows. If you're listening to this early, Austin, Texas, you are up next. A few tickets left for that. Phoenix sold out. Then we have New York, Tarrytown, and Boston, which are pretty close. So if you want those tickets, get them. You better hurry. I advise get them immediately. So get in there.

patreon.com slash crime in sports. That's where you get all the bonus material. Anybody $5 a month or above. You get hundreds of episodes immediately of back stuff you've never heard, bonus things immediately in your feed for just the price of a cup of coffee. You can't be the 10. You get new ones every other week. You get one crime in sports, one small town murder, and you get all of it. We just hand it to you. There you go. This week we're going to talk about for crime in sports. We're going to talk about Marge Schott.

who was the owner of the Cincinnati Reds and one of the most controversial sports owners in the history of the world. Cheap, nasty, mean, horrible. If Leona Helmsley owned a sports team and dressed in jogging suits, it would be Marge Schott, basically a horrible woman. Then for small town murder, we're going to talk about something very strange. Actually, you know what? We're switching this.

We were going to talk about remote viewing, and we're going to move that to the next Patreon after this. And we're going to talk about the Sarah Boone murder trial because I watched the entire thing, the suitcase murder. I watched the entire trial, and it was –

fucking insane so I have to talk about this I don't know right we're changing it up we're doing that so there you go that is patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all that and you get a shout out at the end of the show as well so also listen to our other two shows crime in sports which you don't have to like sports you just have to like us making fun of idiots and then you're in and then your stupid opinions which is people's opinions and then we get to make fun of that so it's fantastic check those out that said disclaimer time this is a comedy show

We're comedians, so jokes are going to happen and people are going to die in horrible ways. Now, those things you go, well, how do you make that work? Very easily. What you do is you don't make fun of the victims or the victims' families. Why, James? Because we're assholes. Yes, but. But we're not scumbags. See how that works? And it keeps everything nice and tasteful and it's crazy stuff here. But I'm telling you this is a wild case and they're all wild cases. If you think that true crime and comedy should never, ever go together, we might not be for you.

We may not. Or we might be, and you just don't know exactly what we're doing yet. But either way, no complaining later. That's what we're saying now. That said, I think it's time, everybody, to sit back. Let's all clear the lungs here. Let's all shout. Shut up and give me.

murder let's do this everybody okay let's go on a trip shall we we are going to north carolina today oh yeah down there in a place i'm actually familiar with because my dad lived here for a while and this is actually technically where the raleigh improv is as well as in rary north carolina it's a suburb of of raleigh here east central north carolina about 15 minutes outside of raleigh

About three hours to Cherryville, North Carolina. Our last North Carolina episode, way back episode 494. That was gossip and brain bashing. And that was I remember that episode, too. It was crazy. This is in Wake County, like Wake Forest University, because that's all the same thing here. It's all there. Area code 919. The motto here, live inspired. Do it. Or live inspired. One of the two. Yeah.

We're all dead, but we're inspired by living. We don't know. Could go either way there. A little bit of history of this town here. In the 1750s, John Bradford moved here and opened up an inn. Back then, it was also called an ordinary. Is that what they called those? An ordinary or an inn. Yeah. So they named the town Bradford's Ordinary Inn.

Wow. After the one thing in it, apparently. I didn't know that. But most of the land around here remained in the hands of two different men. So Bradford didn't own anything. He just owned his inn. These two guys owned all the other land. Both of their names were Nathaniel Jones.

Two guys having like a land battle, both named Nathaniel Jones. Yeah. Ridiculous. Gotta go by Nate. Yeah. In 1775, Jones of White Plains Plantation owned 10,461 acres of land, while Jones of Crabtree owned most of what is now Western Cary.

So it's ridiculous. So after the Revolutionary War, the community was on the road between the new capital in Raleigh and the University of North Carolina in Chapel Hill. It's kind of in between those two things here. A lumberman named Allison Francis Page, a lumberman named Allison.

It's got to be a gal, yeah? No, that's a guy. That's a guy. He's a lumberjack, for Christ's sake. Imagine the brawny guy and go, hey, Allison, can you help me out with something? He goes by Al, right? I would hope so. He arrived in 1854 and is credited with founding the town, even though the Joneses fought over it and everything else. He purchased 300 acres for $2,000 and planned all that kind of shit. Do you think that's where Keeping Up with the Joneses came from?

I think Jones is just a very common last name. That's a great point. As found by two guys who aren't even related, both having the same name and fighting over the same area. Exact same name. Exact same name. I think there was not a lot of names back then. Probably. Before we got a ton of immigration, there was probably very few last names. It was probably like China. There's like eight last names. Yeah.

Bunch of Smiths Jones. We all shared them. That's it. So yeah, Allison Frances Page put up a sawmill and a general store and all that and donated a bunch of acreage for the railroad depot. So then the town was known as Page, Page's Siding, Page's Station, Page's Tavern, and Page's Turnout.

I like Paige's Tavern. That sounds good, right? We're going to stop at that town, I think. Fuck yes, we're stopping. Tie one on. In 1856, he added a post office and became the town's first postmaster. So this is like a little kid playing pretend town, and he's just putting stuff up, naming shit after himself.

And Allison's got three names that are also all girls' names too. Yeah, well, Frances can go either way. But Allison is usually 99.999% a girl's name usually. It's not like – there's a lot of names that go either way. That's not one of them usually. Even Paige, that's a gal's name. Yeah, his last name here. So anyway, Paige named the community Carrie because of his admiration for Samuel Fenton Carey.

Yeah. Who was head of the Sons of Temperance in North America. What the fuck is that? Don't drink is what that is. No. Christians that go around telling you what to do and not to drink. So 1960, Carrie's population was about 3,300. By 1970, it had grown to about 7,600. But what they did, and this is what I mean. Right now, there's way more people here than we usually do for a town. Sure, sure. But this absolutely feels like a small town.

Absolutely. And the population has really exploded in the last 25 years. Yeah, but it keeps its charm away from Charlotte and all that stuff over there. They said to preserve the small-town feel, Cary formed the Community Appearance Commission in 1972, which focused on regulating the look of things through ordinances. Sure, telling you what you can and can't do. Nice. Yeah, and 74 required developers to set aside one acre of green space for every 35 housing units constructed.

That's why it still looks like a small town. Okay. Because there's green. Yeah, it's not just all crammed with fucking... If you want to have a sub-development, you have to also put a park in, which is interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Limit for the acreage that you got to be fast. A couple reviews of this town. Most people like it a lot, unless they're just saying it's expensive. Five stars. I'll kind of give you this. I'll give you the kind of overview here. Yeah.

Carrie, North Carolina offers a charming, vibrant downtown area that beautifully blends moderate amenities with a welcoming community feel. The new downtown park is a centerpiece with spacious green lawns, serene water features, and plenty of seating, making it ideal for relaxation, family gatherings, and casual meetups. You know, shit you do at a park.

What else would you do at a fucking park? Well, give each other handies. That's a casual meetup, I suppose. Get blowjobs, obviously, from streetwalkers, but that's at night. I'm talking during the day. What are we doing here? It's a casual meetup, yeah. It's a place where both young and old can feel at home, whether it's for a stroll, enjoying a festival, or simply taking in the surroundings. Local breweries add to Carrie's appeal, featuring unique craft beers and warm, inviting spaces perfect for a laid-back evening.

Right. There you go. So three stars. Carrie is an affluent suburb. That means the crime rate is low. We'll be the judge of that. And there are plenty of restaurants and other amenities. However, the people here are generally very pretentious and entitled assholes. I think the triangle area as a whole is great. But if you're a normal person, I would tend to avoid Carrie.

Yeah, my dad moved there in like 96 when it was definitely not what it is now. No? No, no. It was half the population. Would you call it yuppies now? Now it's yuppies, yes. Now it's yuppies. Now it's just gotten very expensive. Two stars really could use more good Asian places. And I mean good, not just expensive. Not just fancy. There's perfectly awesome middle ground between P.F. Chang's and Buffet's, people.

Well, hold. P.F. Chang's is not Chinese food, first of all. Are they setting the top bar at P.F. Chang's? Well, they said expensive, not good. Great point. Yeah, that is too much money for what it is. Exactly. And drastically lacking acceptable vegetarian restaurants. Yeah, you're in North Carolina. Even a vegetarian dish comes with pork with barbecue sauce on it.

That vinegary good shit that they put on it down there. Even your salad is a barbecue chicken salad. They didn't even have a salad at the restaurant. We went to a nice restaurant. They did not have vegetables there. They were like, oh, I don't know. We got a lot of meat, though. So weird. And then finally, one star Havana grill music way too loud. It bothers neighbors.

So turn it down, Havana Grill. Oh, okay. Yeah, Havana Grill's music is, yeah. Some restaurant plays music loud and the neighbors don't like it. All right. That's a review of the town. That's a review of the town. People in this town, right now, this is not when the case happened, by the way, but right now there's 171,000 people there. It has blown up. In 2000, there was 94,000 people there. Jesus. In 95, there was like 70,000 people there. It's just exploded. 20% more every year.

Well, they have the Triangle Research Center where they opened up. That's when they were opening up all that shit, which is all these big companies and tech jobs and stuff. And people like the Northeast, people move down there like crazy. I know when my dad moved down there, he got transferred with IBM because they were transferring tons of people down there. It's like a.

you know, it was a big deal. So, um, and there was tons of transplants there too. Everybody there is from somewhere else. It was like, there must've been something with the, with the government with low corporate taxes or something. That's usually how that shit works. There's a boom because property is cheap and taxes are low. There's also four good colleges right there, which is a good place to get talent for that kind of thing. You got Duke, Wake Forest, NC, you know, NC state. So,

So male, there's a few more females than males. It's about average. Median age is 39, usually about 37, so that makes sense. All the young children and the 35 to 54 age groups are high.

So people come here, spit out a bunch of kids when they're 37. Have a middle management job and run it. That's it. Some tech company. 62% married, well above the national average. Less people are single with children here. It is a family environment kind of a deal. Race in this town, 64% white, 7.7% white.

Black, 16.8% Asian, as we said. Tech jobs, a lot of them there. 0.4% Native American, 8.1% Hispanic. Religion in this town, 43.4%, which is lower than the national average. And the highest one is Baptists, of course, because Baptists are the Catholics of the South, as we know. And this place, actually, you can't go anywhere on Sundays.

Everything's closed. No, no, no, no. Everything is packed with church people. Oh, I see what you're saying. Like if you want to go to lunch on a Sunday, you're going at about 4 o'clock because all the other time it's just well-dressed people just coming from church. Everybody there goes to church is what I found anyway when I was there. Unemployment rate's very low. It's 3% here because there's tons of jobs here. If there's nothing else, there's jobs. Median household income in Cary, $113,782. Wow.

Is that right? Well above the $69,000 average there. So not bad at all. Cost of living, $100,000 is regular. Here it's a $105,000.

Problem is the housing is the high one. Very high. Median home cost here, and this is much different from where my dad lived there, $574,400. Median. Yeah. That is wild. And if we've convinced you. That's Connecticut prices, man. That's fucking insane. If we've convinced you, damn it, the only place for you to lay your head and live inspired is Cary, North Carolina. We have for you the Cary, North Carolina real estate report.

Average two-bedroom rental here. A little pricey. Above the national average by a good amount. $1,630 for a two-bedroom rental. At least $400. Yeah, a little over $400 here. Here's a three-bedroom, three-bath, 1,599-square-foot house, which pretty much describes the house my dad had when he lived there, except I think it was a two-bathroom. And...

It's a nice little house. It's fine. This house is kind of cool. It's two-story and clean and white and nice. 15 square feet upstairs and down? Upstairs and down. That's a small house. $465,000 for that.

No acreage. It's not on. It's on a regular lot of land. Yeah. Expensive. Yeah. My dad is kicking himself for selling his house down there 25 years too early. I have a feeling for nothing. Yeah, it was cheap down there is one of the reasons why you move down there back in the day. Here's a six bedroom, six bath T-ball for each and every B-hole 6028 acre or square feet. So not acres. That'd be a lot. 0.41 acres.

It's brick. It's all brick. It has big white columns out front. It's got a cool bendy staircase. Yeah. Nice woodwork. But it kind of... It's weird. The weird part is it looks...

It looks like it's made to look old and fancy, but they built it in 2006. You know what I mean? It's one of those type of houses. $1,595,000 for that. Yeah, okay. All righty then. Then a five-bedroom, six-bath, T-bowl for all your b-holes and a neighbor. It's 9,619 square feet. Huge, massive house. 7.96 acres.

The picture of it, it's on a private lake. And the picture from the front, it looks like it's floating on the lake. That's what it looks like. Like the lake, the way it's fucking, it's ridiculous. It's that close to the water. It looks like a resort. It just looks like some crazy Mediterranean resort. It's silly. There's a palm tree right by the indoor pool in North Carolina.

Not a lot of palm trees grow. It snows there. South Carolina has them. It snows in North Carolina, like a lot. That's crazy. $7,500,000 for that. Buckle the fuck up. That is expensive. Things to do in this town. Okay. You have the North Carolina Gourd Festival.

Yeah, let's do it, which is hilarious because we had a murder a couple months ago where they were all about boards. They were people. So they were out of their gorge. We feel like we know a lot about gourds based on this episode. So for the low admission price of five dollars, there are lots of fun things to do and see and buy at the festival.

Oh, boy. There is the Village of Yesteryear building. Sure. Yeah, there's a variety of classes for beginners through advanced in the gorder category. You want to be an advanced gorder. Register for classes until the 27th or try your luck as a walk-in student at the festival. You might not get in, though. The demand for gorder classes are...

Off the charts. Yeah. We also offer a quick craft make and take for a low fee. Enter some of your gourd creations for judging. Are we carving gourds now? Is this a pumpkin carving contest? Or just grow it and have them judge it. Don't know. You come to the festival and the wonderful gourd craft creations that have been entered into the competition and vote for your favorite for the People's Choice Award. Imagine sticking around.

Because you need to cast your vote for your favorite gourd. Imagine waiting around to find out if your neighbors like your gourd. Then people go, man, I got to find out if the one I picked won.

I can't go yet. Vendors from near and far sell dried gourds of all shapes and sizes, crafted gourds, and tools and supplies so you can craft gourds yourself, goddammit. Sure. They've left out the goddammit part, but marvel at our display of gourds from around the world. Wow.

Do I need to see? People are mailing them in? International gourds. I think they're traveling in with them as a carry-on, putting them on their lap like a newborn baby probably. Got my two seats. Jesus Christ. Musical instruments, utensils, dolls, bowls, and much more.

Okay. All right. Our photo booth has a variety of gourd masks, gourd hats, and other gourd accessories that you can model. You'll look gorgeous. Yeah, you will. That's what it says. You'll look gorgeous. Then there's also the Carrie Dog Days.

Get ready to unleash the fun and celebrate our furry friends at the most exciting event of the year, Carry Dog Days. Join us for a day filled with tail wagon excitement, possum activities. So gorgeous and possum so far.

Apparently the only way to get people to go to a festival in North Carolina is have a lot of bad puns. Yeah. Holy shit. So you're going to paw some unforgettable memories. The town of Cary is happy to announce the annual Dog Days and Pet Expo.

Jesus, look at my pet. Will be held at the Cary Police Department from 10 a.m. to 3 p.m. So you can all feel real comfortable. Love that. Yeah, showing up stoned, going out trying to hit your vape pen. Not going to work. Our very own Cary Animal Services team is hosting this event and excited to grow the Cary Dog Days and Pet Expo into an annual extravaganza. Wow. You can see agility courses, watch amazing canine athletes tackle obstacles with finesse and skill.

A pet vendor village where they sell pet products. Food trucks, of course. Doggy demonstrations.

where you learn new tricks and training tips. And how they do it. Don't miss out on this barktastic event. Okay, that's... Barktastic? Is that even a thing? Possum and gorgeous. You just had to add a couple extra letters. That's fine. This is outside of the realm of okay. Ridiculous. Barktastic. You took it too far. I'm sorry. Whether you have a furry friend of your own or simply love animals, who goes there to look at other people's dogs?

I like dogs and everything, but wouldn't you bring your own dog? Carry Dog Days promises fun, laughter, and lots of wagging tails. Sure. We welcome you and your well-behaved pets to join us. Yeah, don't bring that piece of shit around here. I'll bring the one that barks at everybody for a pawesome time, and they're going to go back with that. Mark your calendars. Okay. He's just barktastic. That's why he's so loud. He's a gorgeous little guy. That's all it is.

He's awesome. He's gorgeous and awesome. Crime rate in this town, what we're interested in here. And it is low. Property crime is about one-third below the national average. Nice. And violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and, of course, assault, the Mount Rushmore of crime, is about one-third of the national average. Oh. So two-thirds below the national average. Yeah. So very, very safe area. Incredibly safe. Really. It's just...

It's just suburbs and houses and strip malls. I mean, that's really what it is, honestly. That's how you make it safe. That's it. That said, let's talk about some murder here. Here we go. Let's do this. Okay. First guy we got to talk about. I know we'll get all the laughing out of the way here. Okay. Bradley Cooper. Is that right? Oh, yes. Bradley Cooper. Wait till you guys hear the Express this week, too. We have more people with names that they shouldn't have. It's fucking crazy.

As soon as he got successful, he should have changed this, right? Jesus. Bradley Graham Cooper. I don't know what the real guy's middle name is. I don't know, but Bradley Cooper is his name, though. If you told me Bradley Cooper's middle name was Graham, I'd go, that looks about right. He looks like a Graham. Sounds about right. This Brad Cooper was born in 1973.

And now he is going to end up meeting a woman later on, and we'll talk about how they meet and everything. But they seem to be somehow meant to run into each other and meant to be together here. Nancy Lynn Rents, R-E-N-T-Z. So pay your rents. She's also born in 73. They didn't even grow up in the same place. They were both born in Alberta, Canada, but not.

Is that right? Yeah, they're both Canadian. Do they meet in America? No, they met in Canada, in Calgary, I believe. She grew up in Edmonton, and he grew up in Medicine Hat. Medicine Hat. Medicine Hat, which is the name of a town. And they even have Medicine Hat College, which is hilarious.

I don't know what that sounds like you're learning there, but not anything that you would need to make a living. That's got to be something with Native Americans, right? Has to be. Has to be. I would hope so. If white people name that shit Medicine Hat, I want to kick them right in the balls. This is ridiculous.

So, yeah, they're seven weeks apart in age, these two. Now, Brad grew up in a middle-class family in Medicine Hat, one of two boys in the family here. His parents are Terry and Carol Cooper. And Terry was a college chemistry teacher who went on to be vice president of Medicine Hat College. I wear the second biggest hat here. Yeah.

Can't get that big hat yet, but someday. Wait till they retire. Oh, man. He also sat on numerous community boards of things. His dad's involved in a lot of stuff in the community. And his mom is a homemaker, raised the boys, and big into gardening, which Bradley was into as well. Love that. Brad would hang out with his mom and garden a lot. So that's what he was doing, gardening. Wonderful.

wonderful yeah it's such a great stress reliever relaxing relaxing until the shit doesn't grow and die and you're angry yelling at dirt it's all anxiety going why won't you grow what the fuck we grew I gave you everything oh we had tomatoes man these beautiful grown San Marzano tomatoes and yeah

Harvested them all. Beautiful. I cut into one. I was just going to slice it open and make some slices, a little bit of salt on it, like my grandmother used to do and do all that. Cut it open. Fucking hollow. Nothing happened inside.

Nothing. They were dry and hollow. What happened? They didn't work. You grew Griswold tomatoes. Dude, they didn't. I swear to God, steam came out when I stuck the knife in. Like, they didn't work. I'm like, these tomatoes are broken, I told Sarah the next morning. She's like, what do you mean? Here's the heart. I had like a, I started cutting them all open. They're all hollow. Fuck.

We got hollow maters. How do we do this? And the meat part was just dry. It was really bad. I don't know what the hell happened, but it didn't work. We found out that we think that they got too much water.

Is that right? There's a liquefying sign? It rained a lot. I don't know. That's what we were told. So who knows? Who knows here? Now, Brad says that his childhood and teen years were uneventful. No problems in the family. Parents get along. A psychologist later noted that Brad gave the impression of, quote, some detachment with little emotional warmth when he spoke of his family. Like a serial killer. Well, also like a tech nerd.

That's the other thing. Brad is a smart guy, and he's into tech shit. Doesn't give a shit about the family. Well, his dad's a chemistry professor. I bet this runs in the family. A lot of times people who are very...

You know, just maybe on the spectrum too a little bit, that sort of thing with the technical shit. They kind of tend to emotional warmth isn't their number one strength. You know what I mean? I can see it, yeah. That's the best way I can put it here. But he's athletic, Brad. He's very smart, very high above average IQ. And also everybody says when he wants to achieve something, he does it, period. He's that guy. So not a lot of time for emotional warmth there for Brad.

His family is very much into education because his dad's a professor and the vice president's second biggest hat at the whole college. So obviously. So he attended Medicine Hat College. Wonder how he got in. That must have been hard. A little bit of nepotism, you think? Maybe. After a year, he enrolled in the University of Calgary to pursue a degree in computer science.

Graduated in 96. And then by 97, everything you learned was completely irrelevant. So, you know, I'm sure that's a joke. But by then, you know, has outgrown and made your fucking whole degree obsolete. Every year, the whole thing would flip on its head and change back then. So it was like, oh, that's all useless now. Now we're doing this. Oh, fuck. Okay.

Congratulations on your MS DOS degree. Yeah, that's great. You started up Oregon Trail very nicely on that Apple II. That's a great job. D colon. Yeah, DOS fucking run slash whatever the shit crap they were doing. I didn't know.

So now Nancy Rentz, the young lady he'll end up with here, she was one of a set of identical twins. Why have we come up with so many twins lately on this show? In the last year, so many twins involved in this. Bad things touch twins' lives consistently. They either murder or are murdered quite a bit apparently, and I don't understand how. It's just a part of their life. It's so weird. Exactly.

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Congratulations on your twins. It's going to go bad. Someone's going to die, motherfucker.

Hopefully it won't be you two killing someone else, which is also a possibility. Or them killing you both. Yeah. So Nancy and her identical twin sister Krista, she described them as like soulmates. Well, yeah, they're identical twins. You are. You have the same DNA, for Christ's sake. Yeah.

DNA share. Yeah. You have the same fingerprints, for fuck's sake. You're the same person. I just learned that they have separate fingerprints. Oh, they have separate. They have the same DNA, though. Separate fingerprints, same DNA. Right. So wear gloves and spill your blood everywhere. That's fine. Frame your brother. Frame your brother. Which happened. We've had that before, too. So now the dad is a also her dad, Gary, is a well-respected social worker.

who ran his own business administering educational and social programs for the Canadian government. So they both come from educationally strong backgrounds here. Nancy's brother, Jeff, was an Edmonton police officer. She had a good relationship with her whole family, twin sister, dad, brother, mother, and her other sister, Jill, as well. Nancy is very athletic and very outgoing. She is all-energy.

She's a ball of energy. She's a very skilled ringette player. What is that? I had to look that up, and I will give you the definition from Wikipedia. Ringette is a non-contact winter team sport played on an ice rink using ice hockey skates, straight sticks with drag tips –

A blue rubber pneumatic ring designed for use on ice surfaces. While the sport was originally created exclusively for female competitors, it's expanded to now include participants of all genders. Although ringette looks like ice hockey, it is played on ice hockey rinks. The sport has its own lines and markings, and its offensive and defenses bear a closer resemblance to lacrosse or basketball."

It's non-contact hockey is what it is, essentially. Chick hockey is what they designed it for, but it turned into something else. Non-contact hockey. Yeah. That's what they designed it for is, oh, the girls can't get checked into the boards. Right. And then they saw some of these big Canadian farm girls, and they're like, I don't know. Maybe they can. Take her teeth. Who cares?

She goes about 230 with a flannel shirt on and she's chewing fucking Redman. I'm going to go ahead and say, give her some skates. You know what I mean? She looks like she's coming for your whole bottom row. Let her have it. She just drank a half a bottle of whiskey. I think she's okay to play.

So she was into this type of shit, and when she's a kid, she has big, giant, thick glasses. Oh, yeah. But grows out of those by high school, and she's an athlete, and she's attractive, and everybody likes her, and she's personality. She's described as the kind of woman who what, Jimmy? Yeah.

Lit up a room. Lit up a room. They always do. They always do. Yeah, so she played all of this. Now, her ringette, basically, at one point she hoped to play ice sports at the Olympic level. Now, ringette isn't an Olympic sport, but she was trying to transfer it into other things. She wanted to be an Olympic athlete. That was her goal. But her team had a matchup against Russia, and she had a knee injury, and then that was pretty much it for the Olympic dreams. Oh, no.

So she liked she made jewelry. Also, she liked art and fashion. When she's in Canada, she'll be working at IBM and also running her own clothing store in the evenings.

So very ambitious she is. She's got a lot of irons in the fire, a lot of energy. Her friend said she's hilarious. She makes everyone smile. No one is ever sad around Nancy. Right. Now, Nancy had been involved seriously, like talking about getting engaged and stuff.

in the 90s here with a prominent Calgary businessman. Who can resist a Calgary businessman? I got cash. Can't resist that. When she met Brad...

And she lost interest in her prominent Calgary businessman and was all about Brad after that. Yeah. And milk piss on her and she's his. The other thing is Brad. She's likes like real outgoing guys like that sort of thing. And Brad is like quiet and reserved. So not her normal type. The only thing I can think is we know he's very tall. He's a pretty tall guy. Maybe that's what it is. Maybe she just likes tall guys. I'm not sure. So she wanted to have a.

She wanted to have a family and a steady family life and have kids and all that. And she thought that Brad was the stable kind of cat that could put that all together with her. She thought he was a good person to start a small business with basically at that point. So she wanted to do all of that. And she told her sister that Brad felt safer than these other guys she was going out with.

They felt like they could fly off at any time. He's fun, sure, but he's... Yeah, Calgary businessman. Yeah, he could be going banging a Tim Hortons waitress tomorrow or something from a business trip or, you know, but Brad feels safe. So Nancy's family said they found the relationship odd because, you know, he just wasn't her normal type, but he was a nice guy and fine and, you know, has a good job and college educated. So it's just not the guy they expected Nancy to pick, basically. Yeah.

So her mom said, choose the one you love, I guess. That's there. Yeah. I mean, sure. It's not your fucking business. Yeah. Goes out with. Yeah. That's that's the deal here. So they're going to meet in about 98 here. It looks like they're going to meet. And it's basically a they meet working for IBM in Calgary. They were both 26 years old. They're both in the tech industry.

Why not? Now, her sister Jill, while they're living together, her sister Jill would become close to them. She was a teenager at the time. Jill was younger. And she would stay with them at their apartment nearly every weekend in Calgary. She'd go to hang out with her big sister, which must have been awesome for her. I mean, that's where you want to hang out. Early 2000, Bradley Cooper gets an offer.

to transfer with Cisco Systems, the company, to its Research Triangle Park office, which is in Raleigh. Oh, down in North Carolina. Yeah. So Brad buys a big old diamond ring for Nancy, and they plan a big wedding.

How about it? But Brad, then he gets this job working for Cisco. So they said, well, fuck, never mind. Let's scrap the big wedding. Let's just get married right now so you can move with me to North Carolina because otherwise she can't come because she has to have to work on all the visa issues and all that kind of thing. But if she's his wife, then she can come because she's attached to his work visa. So they had a small ceremony at a restaurant in Calgary on a Friday night in October of 2000.

She wore a white sundress, not a big giant wedding gown or anything. They kept it simple. Only Nancy's family, Brad's brother and a couple of friends were there. That's it. Very small, very small deal. So he got a work visa and Nancy's visa allows her to live in the United States but not hold a job.

Oh, she's not allowed to have a job. She's not allowed to have a job. That's part of it. Now, she can apply for a work visa while she's here and do all that. But initially, when she gets here. No job. She's not does not. That's not part of her visa is working. So they marry. They move to carry.

And Cary, a little bit about Cary here, this is when it really, really boomed. Like in 1990, there was like 15,000 people in Cary. Is that right? And then there's 90,000 by 2000 and 175,000 by now. So it's crazy. Yeah. It really blew up. So they moved there right in the cusp of when things were really getting big. Good for them, yeah. So, yeah, not bad at all. National Geographic called it a futuristic Pleasantville.

They said a town of young, affluent, and educated streets lined with sprawling houses, SUVs, and sports cars glinting in broad driveways. Nat Geo's writing about your town. Writing about your town here, which is wild. In 2001, more than 80% of the population of Cary worked white-collar jobs. 80%. 80%. That's wild. 90% of the households, almost, were comprised of married couples with children in 2001. That's wild.

That's a lot. That's off the charts. Ridiculous. So January 2001, they settle into a 2,800-square-foot home in the Lockmere subdivision in Cary, which is a very nice, affluent area. He's making over $100,000 a year back then. Fuck.

which is crushing it back then. I mean, that's doing great. Um, they, she liked it when she got there. I mean, Nancy was into it. She spent hours doing, uh, jogging paths all around the neighborhoods and stuff. There's,

Good places to jog. So she couldn't play her ringette anymore, but she can run. She completed several marathons over the years and all that kind of thing here. She would recruit friends to run with her. Come run with me, which is the invitation I'll never take from anyone. Come run with me. No, no, no. Where are we going? Who are we running from? Why? Unless I'm running from or towards something, I'm not running.

Or like, you know, to score a goal of some kind in a touchdown or a fucking basket or something. If something behind us is not on fire or there's red and blue lights, I'm not running. I'm not running. Or I have a ball in my hand or chasing someone else with a ball. Those are the only circumstances where running is coming in for me. I'm done. There's a lot of walking around my neighborhood lately, but I'm not doing any running. And I have to do the walking because I feel like I'm going to die. Yeah.

Love walking around the woods. I'm not running around them, though. That's insane. So she would just all sorts of jogging here. Nancy and her friend Jessica Adam, who will come up a lot in this story, were training for a late summer half marathon in Virginia. They're going to do a halfsy, huh? Shit. This is how much energy she has. She's making me tired here, Nancy. She would strap on fucking rollerblades and a backpack to go to the grocery store.

And she's going to bring home the groceries in a backpack. Just getting a few things. No worries. Yeah, but what do you do with those blades when you get to the store? Are you carrying those or are you just going around the store? Otherwise, you'd have to bring shoes with you. Yeah, or walk barefoot, right? Or socks at least. I think if you're like a rich lady around here, they go, oh, isn't that quirky? You know what I mean? If you were a teenager, they'd kick you out of the store. But if it looks like you own a home, they go, she's quirky.

Look at her squeezing the avocados in her rollerblades. That's so fun. Nancy also, and this is her and Brad both, as we'll talk about, but Nancy has a bit of a wandering eye from time to time. Oh? Yes, some very big controversies here. I guess, apparently, according to her sister Krista, her twin, she had met a man in Florida while visiting a friend of hers down there during the first year of her marriage. Oh.

And that man later came to her sister Krista's wedding in Canada in August 2001. And Nancy hooked up with him up there. So much so that she didn't want to return to North Carolina, her sister said. She was planning on leaving Brad after 10 months of being married and hooking up with Florida man here. Okay.

So, obviously, the marriage isn't perfect. From the outside, it looks fine, but clearly everybody's not super happy if you can be pulled away that easy. So by Christmas of 2002, things are not going well still for them. It's a little bit tough. Now, she's unable to work legally in the United States without a visa, and she's bored, number one, and this is

You know, there's not like streaming services. She can't catch up on her show all day long or anything. You know what I mean? Yeah. Can't just watch law and crime and watch a full trials all the time on YouTube over here. So it's a little boring here. And she returned to Edmonton for Christmas in 2002 and told her family she didn't want to go back. Not going back to Canada. The next year. She told her family she wanted to go back to Cary. But her sister Jill said, you decided to marry him. This is your husband. You should make it work.

You can't just run away every time you feel slightly whatever. Have you talked to him, basically? And this is her younger sister, too, who's much younger than her. A little more reckless. Didn't you get married? This isn't your boyfriend. You got married, I thought. You guys own a home together, for Christ's sake. So Brad had to come to Edmonton and convince Nancy to come back with him. What?!

He had to go from North Carolina to fucking Edmonton, which is in Western Canada, by the way, and very far from North Carolina. That's a trip. He's got to take time off of work to go talk his wife into coming back. Coming back with her with him. So things start to get better when they come back, because in 2003 and everything, Nancy starts to she gets a car, first of all.

which helps a lot because then she's, you know, doesn't have to be within roller blade range of everywhere to get there. So she starts to make friends a little bit and has a car. And then she starts to make some money, um, and working as a nanny for some of her friends. So she'll watch a few kids and make a few bucks under the table cash. The, yeah, the immigration services don't need to know about that. She,

She's got a car. She's starting to feel like a person here now. Absolutely. Not having a car, just sitting in a fucking house somewhere with no car, no way to go anywhere. In a foreign country. In a foreign country, mind you. Your family is thousands of miles away, all your friends, everything you know. You can't even get the things you... There's no poutine in North Carolina. None. None. You're not getting that shit. I don't know if they have that in Western Canada either. There's not even a...

There's not even a Leafs game on or whatever the fuck. Nothing. Calgary Flames. Edmonton Oilers. No one's. No. Can't watch it. Can't watch it. Nothing is the same. You're like, what is this? The Carolina Hurricanes? Is this even a real hockey team? Come on, man. They just showed the outside view and there is trees and green. There's trees and green. There's not a fucking drop of snow on the ground. This is crazy.

So February 2004, they have a daughter. Yeah. The couple here. Nancy gives birth to a daughter named Bella in 2004, which is a very common name in 2004. Sure is. That was like one of the most common names in 2004. I think it was the most. Yeah, so much so. The Twilight lady was like, obviously I'm naming this girl Bella. Have to. So in 2006, they have another daughter.

This is Katie now that's born. So they got Bella and Katie here, 2004, 2006. Now, December 2007 comes around and Brad, he's got an admission that he makes to his wife here. He had an affair and he tells her about it. Not only did he have an affair, uh,

He had an affair with more than one woman, first of all. Not at the same time, but he wasn't having foursomes or anything. Didn't run off to Dubai or something for a couple of nights? No harems or anything like that, but he is banging several different women at the same time, including a close friend of hers. Of course. Of the family, of both of them, that they hang out with. He's friends with the husband, she's friends with her, they're both friends together. Oh, God.

Nancy wanted to leave at first, but she didn't. She decided that she couldn't. She went to a lawyer and a lawyer told her if she left the house, she could lose everything, possibly even custody of her daughter. Yeah. She doesn't get half of anything cause she doesn't even belong here. She just runs it. Yeah. So the lawyer told her to stick around and, you know, do everything by the proper channels if you're going to do anything or work it out, do whatever you want to do. But if you want to leave, you got to do it with paperwork or else you're, you're fucked here. So, um, I guess they had the, the couple that he ends up, the,

that he ends up having sex with here. They had all met at the Triangle Academy Preschool for overachieving toddlers, basically. That's...

These are rich, highly educated people that think the kids need a real comprehensive education by two and a half or else they're falling behind. A triangle. I mean, I realize that's what the area is called. Yeah. This is like a love hexagon. This is so busy. It's a lot, man. So now –

that's when they, or they also met the Jessica Adam lady there that Nancy is friends with. And they both showed up the day before preschool was set to start and they were talking about it. They said they bonded very quickly, became very close. That's what her husband, Jessica's husband, Brent or Brett said. So even the kids loved her too. They said she'd lead gaggles of kids through the neighborhood on a hunt for frogs.

Really? Shit like, come on, kids. Yeah, like she's... I'm still finding frogs. She's got energy and it needs to come out somewhere. So she seemed to love motherhood, everybody said. Sounds like it. But she couldn't wait to... Because the kids were like, you know...

toddlers at this point. She was waiting for them to get off to regular school so she could maybe get back to work is what she was talking about. Start doing something here. In Canada, she'd run a clothing boutique and also worked for IBM. And now she's taking kids to look for frogs. She's a little bored. She's a smart lady. Entirely different day. Totally. So she spent her days hanging out with the kids and they said she always made everything look glamorous no matter what.

So even if she had a baseball cap on, she looked glamorous in it. Her friends said everything just came naturally to her. She made it look easy. Now, by February 2008, things are really coming to a head between Brad and Nancy here. Brad cancels Nancy's access to bank and credit card accounts. Not allowed to have money now. Not allowed to have money. And he would dole out an allowance every Friday he'd give her.

And unbeknownst to her, he would monitor her email correspondence with lawyers and friends and all this type of shit. This started in April of 2008. He's the one that she is. Yes. Well, she cheated, too. They both. Yeah, but he's doing lots of it.

Yeah, she's also doing lots of it, as we'll talk about later. They're both cheating like crazy. There is no not. There's no bad guy in the cheating aspect. They're both. Neither of them are faithful at all. That's just saying he's cheating like crazy and he's monitoring shit. Well, you're going to hear something later where you're going to go, Jesus Christ, he should have started that shit three years ago.

Okay. Because, yeah, it's a doozy. It's heavy, huh? It's a doozy. But this is not, you can't fucking spy on people. That's crazy. If you're spying on someone, it's over already. It's already done. It's been done for so long. If you're reading any correspondence they're having. It's done. You're just looking for a reason for it to end. Just end it. Something. And also, this allowance business. That's bizarre. This is bizarre.

some bizarre, weird Ricky Ricardo shit here. You know what I mean? Control shit. Yeah. Yeah. So 2008, she decides that she doesn't want to reconcile things with Brad. Nancy doesn't. She's tired of this shit. Um, they agree to pursue a separation. They talk about it and they agree. Okay, we'll, we'll get a separation. Yeah.

So she hires a lawyer to draft a custody agreement to get this ball rolling. This is Alice Stubbs. She's a Raleigh lawyer, and she outlined a proposed separation agreement, and Brad Cooper sees this agreement in 2008. The proposal described by this lawyer, Stubbs, was the proposal was described as aggressive, and a first draft that she expected to change would have required Brad, because this is just the first draft.

This is your first negotiating jumping off point. Yeah, here's what I would love. But if you want to. But obviously, I'm not going to get this right. If I want a grand a month, I want a grand a month. I'm asking for fifteen hundred is what this works like. And hopefully we'll settle on a grand. You know what I mean? That's what I feel like it. So Brad was required to pay twenty one hundred dollars a month in child support.

In what year? In that year, 2008. Wow. Which is a lot. That's steep. He'd also be responsible for paying all costs for the Cooper girls to get a private education from kindergarten through high school, private school. Yeah, that is the bummer of putting them in private right out of the gate. And include Nancy Cooper as the beneficiary on his life insurance as long as she was alive. So not only that, now she's also going to get his life insurance.

Wow. That's what this is part of. Nancy, according to Stubbs, the lawyer, was upset about an extramarital affair that her husband confessed in 2008 because it's with one of her friends. That's why she was really mad. That's the one she's mad at. That's the one you're going to be mad at. Yeah.

some of the other ones i don't care yeah this one's the one that sucks no the hooters waitress fine whatever yeah my friend who comes over and has dinner parties with us now that's a problem that's stabbing me right in the chest not even in the back stab me straight up she also complained to the lawyer that the that brad had not been involved with their family life or really helped at all with their children for years doesn't do anything with the kids that's what she's saying i mean that's part of the

You know, that's everything. Brad would get to see in this draft the girls two weeks each summer, although they could not be consecutive. So I'll summary get him for one and one. I'm sorry if I'm paying for the private education all the time. I'm seeing the girls whenever I goddamn well, please.

You know how expensive that is? If I'm footing not just that bill, but every other bill in their life, I can see them when I want. And this is what I don't understand. When people go through a divorce, they're trying to hurt the other person. And this is totally normal. Men do this. Women do this. Everybody does this. This isn't specific to anybody, but...

Unless the guy, the woman, anybody is abusive to the children or they're danger to the children or something like that, there should be no reason to not let the other parents see the children whenever you want. Right.

That's yeah. It's really frustrating when people do that and fight back and forth via the kids because they're just doing it. They're dangling them from a string. Yeah. Like they're bait and it's not cool. And they think they're hurting the other person, but they're just hurting children. And that's fucking crazy. That's great. But that's also in a divorce. People don't see it straight. It's amazing. They don't see straight, man. A lot of people because everybody does this.

So blurry. He would pay for their travel costs to and from Canada as well because she's going to move to Canada with them. So now he's got to pay to ship them back and forth. She didn't. But Brad Cooper's salary in 2007 was one hundred and thirty five thousand bucks a year. Paying fucking twenty eight hundred dollars a year. Three grand a year. That's child support.

30 grand. Yeah. His salary is 135 grand. So that's a good chunk. And then the travel costs and everything like that. And also the lawyer said that Nancy had to borrow money from her sister and parents to pay for the for the separation agreement to be put together. Seventy five hundred bucks for this lady to do this.

So the lawyer said that Nancy hoped the split would be amicable, but she realized that wouldn't be the case after Brad said this separation proposal ain't going to fucking work. We're not doing this shit. So also under that draft, Nancy would have gotten all the proceeds from the sale of the house after the mortgage sales expenses and other debts accrued had been paid. This is what happens when you fuck your wife's best friend. You can't fuck your wife's friends. They're going to get...

A little bit bitter at you and come for everything. You're going to lose a lot. Her attorney also proposed that Nancy would get whatever was left in her husband's 401k plan after a loan taken out on the fund had been satisfied. Brad would have gotten his stock options from work, though, but she gets the 401k and she gets to be on his life insurance and all that. And she gets that also.

After this, though, everybody said family neighbor said the tension escalated in the Cooper family because they're still living in the same house. But with this document over them, they said Nancy complained to her friends that Brad had become mentally abusive.

And cruel and made demeaning comments to her in front of the children as well. So the lawyer said it was not going to be amicable after that. She was willing to do whatever was necessary to get an agreement so she could get out of this bad marriage and go to Canada. Now, she had this. Wow, this is fucking crazy. She scheduled the sad at what she called the saddest party ever.

Oh, she had talked to a lawyer and even scheduled on April 19th. They get together with friends dubbed the saddest going away party ever. She called it before the get together, though, a few days before Nancy hired a lawyer, another lawyer. And that's when the separate or that subs lady. That's when the separation agreement ended up happening. He objects to the separation plans. And now the party wasn't a goodbye anymore.

Because he's not signing it now. Yeah, no, of course not. He said no. So her friend said now Nancy wasn't free to leave anymore because unless they came to an agreement. Right. Yeah. So spring of 2008, the adventures of Brad here. All right. He has a blog called The Adventures of Brad. What a douche. Chronicling his, quote, accomplishments.

These are all the things I can do. This is a real long-form resume? He had a section entitled, Goals Completed.

Oh, Christ. Shit to brag about is what he should have called it. For public consumption. Unbelievable. Let me put this out on the internet. This is what diaries are for. This is what journals are for. Write it and stuff it under a pillow. This is what your fucking memory is for. In the spring of 2008, this included multiple Ironman competitions, which that's what he was obsessed with, training for Ironman competitions all the time. He runs Ironman. Yep.

his master's degree, and a technical work certification. He was 34 years old, strong, and upcoming, and training for a triathlon at Lake Placid that was upcoming. Wow. Now, back to inside the house and the problems here. Nancy and Brad are sleeping in separate bedrooms. Yeah. Obviously. That's what you do. So Nancy wants to move to Canada, and Brad obviously has changed his mind. Yeah, plug your friend. Now, apparently...

He to make sure she doesn't leave. He has taken the girl's passports from her from the glove compartment of her car.

And now he says, well, I have as much right to hold their passports as she does. We're both their parents. But she says, you know why you're holding that. So I can't go. So, you know, it's all a big pissing contest at this point. Unbelievable. It's a control move, obviously. Not not wonderful. Not a great fucking sign of good character there. Nancy's family said they understood that things were going bad. They knew that Brad had taken one of their daughter's passports and was listening to her phone calls, listening to Nancy's phone calls as well.

Still, they said they always liked Brad. He's always been a nice, steady guy. As far as they're concerned, he's a provider and you know what I mean? They have a house and he doesn't beat her up or anything like that. And he's still paying the bills. By traditional standards, you know what I mean? Like my grandmother, Italian grandma, would say, what the hell do you want? She would yell at Nancy.

Might you have a nice house? Might you buy things you want? Why are you complaining? And then she said this, because I've heard her say this. What man doesn't cheat, she'd say. Who cares? That's what she'd say. What the hell do you care? Who cares? Whose house is it in the end? Your house. What do you care what he does outside? Huh? That was like an old school mentality, though. It was crazy. So who knows?

She's out of her mind, man. So, yeah, this is all going. And so they said, Brad, they said basically like Brad's always been good. They just kind of figured this behavior was what happens in the tension of a divorce. Like,

Neither party seems to be acting in their best, basically. Yeah. Their interests are certainly skewed both sides of the equation. Yeah. And the dad asked her, are you afraid for your life? Is it that? Are you afraid for your physical safety? And she said, no, not at all. And he was like, okay, well then, you know, this is what happens in life. It's going to take a while. It's going to be unpleasant. And that's divorce. It's going to take a while. It's a lot of he said, she said here. Now, Brad...

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And he blamed that on her love, Nancy's love of, quote, $8,000 paintings, designer clothing, Tiffany jewelry. $8,000 paintings? $8,000 paintings. Who the fuck? Not me is the answer to that question. No.

I'll go to a museum. If you're an art person, I guess, but I don't know shit about art, so I am not spending $8,000 on a fucking painting. I like art. It's great. I don't know enough about it. $8,000 is crazy. Yeah. You could show me something that's $30, and I wouldn't know the difference is the point I'm making. So I don't need to spend $8,000 on shit. I go, that looks really nice.

You got any Bob Rosses? Those are really cool. I want some snow and some mountains and a cabin if that's possible. I'll bet a Bob Ross is eight grand now. Maybe, but he painted thousands of those fucking things. So many. Because there was like 400 episodes. We've been watching it lately. There's like 400. As you know, we were watching it. We were watching it together. There's like 400 episodes, and he would paint every painting three times for each episode. Is that right? He'd paint one beforehand.

just to get what he was going to paint. Idea of what to do, yeah. And then he'd know what he was going to paint, so then he'd paint on the show, and then he'd paint another one afterwards as like a giveaway to somebody or something or whatever the fuck. So there's a lot of Bob Rosses floating around out there. But they've got to be worth something, I would hope.

The man's dead and when they die is when they go up in price, right? But there can't be normally like – there's not fucking 20,000 Picasso pieces floating around out there. That's why they're expensive. He didn't do three every week on PBS.

The artwork is for sale and they're looking at $65,000. $65,000 for Bob Ross? For a Bob Ross? Is that right? You can blame Target for that, for selling his t-shirt and making kids know who the fuck he was because...

10 years ago, you probably could have got it for nothing. So that's his story, anyway, is the jewelry and the paintings, $8,000 paintings. It's nuts. Buying Bob Ross originals and shit, as we've... 45 grand. Jesus. Her friends, though, say that Brad was a neglectful husband who trapped and basically starved her out of everything. Affection, money, attention, all that kind of shit. Her friends say that Brad had several extramarital affairs, but...

including one who actually, because this was the friend of theirs, she called Nancy to fucking blow up the spot on it.

Yeah, he didn't tell her. She did. Her name is Heather Meitor. M-E capital T-O-R-U-R-O-U-R. Meitor. That's the mistress there. And he admitted this during a counseling session that he had an affair. This was after she had called her to tell her. So it wasn't like it was a surprise. Yeah, she already knew. But they were in counseling and he admitted. He acknowledged that he had sex with Heather Meitor. Yeah.

They were all friends, like I said. This happened in the master bedroom closet of Brad and Nancy's house. What? Yes. While his older daughter and Mitor's children were in the house playing, they snuck up to a closet to fuck, which is about as trashy as it gets. Yeah, it's pretty gross. That's trashy. He also admitted kissing Heather on several occasions in the car and acknowledged having oral sex with her on another occasion in his home.

Okay. Yeah. So, wow. Nancy talked constantly after that. That's all she would talk about with her friends and everything is, can you believe he fucked Heather? Basically, I can't, I have to get out of here so many times. She's, he's going down on her in her house for Christ's sake. This is insane.

He's making it loving and shit. So he said she just wants to move to Canada with the daughters. And Brad said that Nancy, though, she also strayed. He said, quote, Nancy insisted that she did nothing wrong, that her relationship with the other man only happened once. It wasn't sexual and that nobody knew his name. That was she said, I just banged some guy, but it's fine. It's not sexual. So don't worry about who it was.

We'll find out. We know who it is. Oh, we do? Oh, we know who it is, and we know that there might be, there's an issue, too. Oh, boy. Now, she also found out that Brad never applied for her work visa. The whole time she wants a work visa, and he said he applied for it, and it's just not going through. He never applied for it, intentionally making her unable to do anything. Right.

So in the year before her death, he would financially control her a lot to the point where she was selling her clothes and selling clothes like online and painting friends houses just so she could buy groceries because Brad's allowance wasn't covering shit.

This is now, it's not even just her, like no more jewelry and paintings for you. You can't buy groceries for the house. It's crazy. And you turned her into a handyman. Yeah. She's got to go around fucking changing people's light fucking bulbs and switching out ceiling fans to make a living. She's nuts. So Brad would fill her car up with a limited amount of gas to ensure she couldn't get farther away than he wanted her to be, basically.

Yeah, that's a different level of control. Like, truly given her a quarter. Wow. And hacking her emails, too. Obviously, we knew about that. I guess, by the way, an ex-girlfriend of Brad's at this point, because the divorce stuff was going on, an ex-girlfriend of Brad's from Calgary came forward and filed an affidavit describing him as emotionally abusive and mentally cruel.

This is to support Nancy. Um, the affidavit read, I've never before and have never again been in a relationship with someone who treated me so poorly. He's the worst. She said that at the end of their relationship, she feared for her safety friends and Carrie, um,

always said, her one friend said, quote, this is about Nancy, she would sleep in the girls, with the girls in her room with the car keys in her pants pocket and the bedroom door locked from Brad. Just in case. Ready to make her fucking run for it. Which sounds, that's familiar. I've been there as a child. I used to keep, I had a little go bag packed.

Like Dexter. I had that when I was eight because things were unstable and we'd be fucking taken off sometimes at two in the morning. So I wanted to have the shit I needed. Like, I got to have at least the outfit I want, like my best wrestling figures in there, stuff like that. Like, that's, yeah, that's a shit feeling is what I'm getting at. Brad admits that their relationship had soured toward the end here. And he said he tried to help out more at home.

He tried to. She complained a lot, and he said he tried to take it to heart. He said, I love Nancy very much, and I want to stay married to her. That's what he told people. I just love her. So early July 2008, Nancy's family, the Renses, take Nancy and the two children on a family vacation to South Carolina, to Hilton Head. Yeah, yeah. Very nice. They come down to visit.

And yes, early July 2008, late June into early July, they said that Nancy had faded into an unrecognizable person. She wasn't her outgoing self. She was just a different person. Her parents said that something had changed. They could tell they got a lawyer for Nancy. They hired one for her at that point and were making plans to try to figure out how to get her out of the house or buy out Brad's share or whatever. They're like, we're going to help you get the fuck out of this relationship because it's

It's completely just diminishing you to nothing here as far as your personality goes and everything. So the mom said she was going to go to Carrie and help her out. When they said goodbye to her at the airport, Nancy was sobbing, saying, Mom, I just want to go home.

So, yeah, that's what she did. And she she ends up going home to her carry home here. They said on that on the vacation, she talked about separating from Brad pretty much the whole time.

Yeah, because this is the most horrific, toxic horse shit. It's just a mess. Yeah, and it's eating her from the inside, and it's now manifesting on the outside. She said, Dad, I'm through. I need to get out of this situation. It's not great for the kids. It's certainly not great for me. No, it's bad for your, yeah, this is a now protect your kids situation here. So Nancy returned to Carrie, though. She called her father and left a message about what a shithole the home was when she got back.

She was gone for like a week and change and came back and the house was fucking trashed like frat parties. Like a frat lived there basically. A part of the message said, I've been furious all night last night and today. I'm so furious how disgusting the house was when I got home. There was food and ants in the kitchen. Ants? Just left food out on the counter, didn't clean anything. He just lived like a complete slob for a week and a half.

Wow. So Friday, July 11th, 2008, Nancy gets up by 5 a.m., which is what she normally does. She has plans to go running with her friend, Carrie Clark. The two of them were training together for the half marathon, but Nancy didn't feel like running that morning. So she called her friend and canceled. And she said, you know, I'll talk to you soon. We'll schedule something else. But today I can't do it.

So later that morning, she took Katie and Bella to a community pool at her friend's neighborhood, her friend Hannah. She stopped by a deli on the way to grab lunch for everyone. Isn't that nice? Yeah. Pick up sandwiches for the crew here. The girls swam and played while Nancy and Hannah had a chat there. She was complaining about Brad, of course. Yeah.

The shit part is her friends kind of have to get tired of hearing about it after a while. Of course. Even though you want to help your friend and everything after a while, you're like, oh, here we go again. This is all we're going to talk about. OK. Yeah. At some point you go, it's enough. Just one night. Don't talk about it. Yeah. Let's just try to forget how he forgot to leave her cash as part of their agreed upon budget.

That day he was supposed to leave cash. She called Brad at work a few times to remind him that he'd forgotten and he offered to leave work and bring her some cash. But Nancy told him, don't bother. Never mind. Well, stop calling me. Well, then why did you call me? I'll come bring you some. No, never mind. Then why are we on the phone? Why'd you call? So that's whenever this is the thing. What leads to a divorce can be someone's fault.

But what happens during all this shit? Everyone's at fault. Everyone turns into an asshole. That's the thing.

So she takes the girls mid-afternoon, takes the girls, heads home to get ready for a neighborhood party that they're going to that night. There's a big barbecue across the street at Craig and Diana Duncan's house. Oh, boy. She, Nancy, had offered to cook ribs for the party. That's her gig here. So she stopped at the grocery store on her way home to buy ribs. So she's bought lunch and ribs so far. She had some cash on her. So she made the ribs at home. And as she did, she spoke with her twin sister, Krista, on the phone.

And, you know, they're chit-chatting here. And Nancy spoke on the phone also to Hannah, and she continued preparing for the party. She told Hannah that she'll talk to her the next day about maybe going to the pool again, see what's going on. She finished cooking. She gets dressed. She has a sundress, which is teal with black flowered print and flip-flops. And she and the girls head across the street at about 6 o'clock to the cookout. Okay.

Now, she's one of the first to arrive at the party because she lives across the street. And she also has ribs. You want to get those in there. So everybody, it's a potluck. So everybody's bringing dishes here. On that night here, she's upset about her husband still. And she's talking about that as soon as she gets over to the Duncan's house. And, you know, they're happy.

Waiting for Brad to get here. Brad gets here at approximately 630 p.m. because he's working that day. It's a Friday. So he gets there over the course of the of the night. She mentions that Brad is on kid duty this weekend.

And I'm not dealing with the kids here at this party. So she's hanging out and doing shit. And he is like pushing them on the swings and taking them and feeding them. You know, a lot of sometimes sometimes couples do that. Like you're on kid duty and I'm not tonight or whatever, which is that's tough. But when they're out in public together. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's tough. So but I mean, however, you parse out the fucking the duties, I guess. I don't know. So this is how this is all going.

One of the hosts, Diana, the neighbor, she said that she was surprised that Nancy basically was in a dispute with Brad in public. She said they never fought in public, but they were fighting there.

All night they were fighting here. She said that, you know, this Duncan lady said that she had moved here, too. She wasn't, you know, a native of Cary either. She said that during this whole barbecue, Nancy was telling her that she was having an I hate Brad day.

She told her neighbor that she wanted a divorce and she wants to move back to Canada with her daughters. This was even before Brad Cooper arrived at the party. She recalls Nancy saying, I hate you, Brad Cooper. I hate you. I hate you. I hate you. Then Duncan said she clenched her fists and spat the words out like...

Really hates him. She really hates him. She's mad. When Brad arrived at the party, the host recalled seeing the couple huddled off to the side in what looked to be a heated confrontation. Yeah. During this. Now, during the party as well, Brad makes plans to play tennis the following morning with a guy named Mike Hiller. They hadn't had the opportunity to play in a while. Brad had canceled on Mike in the past due to Nancy not being home to watch the children and them fighting, basically. Yeah.

So Mike even took the added measure of asking Nancy, is Brad available tomorrow to play tennis just to make sure. Yeah. So she said, fine. So Brad and Mike agreed on a time of nine o'clock the next morning. They also made plans with that couple, Mike Hiller and his wife, Laura to get together the following evening to play sequence. So they're going to play tennis that morning and then they're going to have a dinner. Yeah. They've been friends with them for years here. So,

Brad leaves with the two daughters about 8 p.m. from the barbecue. So he's only there about an hour and a half. He's probably tired from chasing fucking toddlers around. Nancy stays late to mainly complain about Brad.

Any of the neighbors that stay behind. It's just a circle with her talking about Brad. And she's loosening up a lot as the party goes on. Talking a lot more shit. Her friend said Nancy ate ribs, pita chips, and dip that night. And had four or five glasses of wine and some beer. That's a lot.

She's not a big woman. She's not a big woman. So she's this is her party night. She's getting down here. She said that Nancy stayed till after midnight at the house over there. They said, you know, they said goodbye and she left to walk across the street. And the barbecue host said that all the lights were off at the Cooper house when she was going across the street. Like, yeah, yeah. Everybody's asleep over there.

So when she got home, she looked in on Brad and the girls. He fell asleep in their room. And I guess they would take turns sleeping with the girls there. So Brad, I guess, had told someone that he saw her silhouette look in the room and then he fell back asleep. He said he was awakened by Katie crying at 4 a.m. So he took her downstairs so she wouldn't wake the older daughter. That's how that goes. This is the 12th. Now, he says that Nancy left about 7 a.m. to go jogging.

Yeah. Wearing a white T-shirt with a sports bra underneath it. Okay. She was scheduled. Nancy was supposed to paint a dining room for her friend Jessica Adam later that morning, but she never showed up. This is like she was going to jog and then like eight o'clock she was going to go over and paint.

Now, she tried this. Jessica Adam tried to call Nancy on her cell phone and then at her home, too. Now, Brad answered the house phone and told Jessica that she went running with a friend that morning. I don't know where the hell she is. So Jessica calls 911, which seems a bit strange.

I would say it's a, it's a, it's a leap. Sure. It's a little bit of a leap here. She calls. Um, and they said to, and they were recording, she's like breathless in a panic on the phone. Not just like, you know, this is weird. I don't know. Just maybe keep an eye out for it. She's like, Oh my God. Oh my God. She's freaking out. She said, Nancy was supposed to be at her house at 8am and hadn't shown up. And they're like,

OK. OK. She's an adult. So your friend didn't show up to paint your dining room. What about when she when when you asked her to help you move? Was she just going to say, God forbid, if she doesn't show up to help you move, you're really wow. They must be fucking dead somewhere. So, you know, that's and she said, well, it's not like Nancy to miss plans.

So she called the house at 930 is when she had called the house and talked to Brad and Brad said she wasn't home. Hannah called a short time later and Brad told her the same. Not home. Don't know. She went out jogging. She doesn't tell me everything she does. I have no idea what she's doing. Yeah. So when she is.

Jessica's on the phone with 911. The operator requested details about Nancy. And this is what she says, rather than give all the details that she's asked. She says, quote, she was expected here no later than nine o'clock to help me with a project. And then she also has another appointment with a friend. Her name is Hannah, who just called me on the other line, hysterical, because she's also now having the same thought that I am about her husband. If he's done something, and I don't know, I mean, God forbid, but...

Then she says, I don't know what I should do. Her husband and her are living together, but they're in the middle of divorce and he is. And then she just keeps humming and doesn't know what to do.

So the operator, 911 operator, tells Jessica to give it some time. We're talking about an adult. If this was a four-year-old, we'd get right on it. But this is an adult woman who's 45 minutes late to your house. Let's fucking take a chill pill there, Jess. Who just happens to be going through a divorce. Yes, and just might need a drive or just, you know, whatever, clear her head. So she said, call back in an hour if, you know, nothing happens here.

But as soon as that call ended, Jessica immediately calls her friend Mary Anderson to drive her to the Cooper home because she was too distraught to drive. She can't even drive. She's so distraught.

We have no idea. She's literally 45 minutes late and she can't even drive. She's so distraught. Has she ever planned a dinner party or anything? That's what I need. Oh, they're late. Oh, God. Jesus. Call the every fucking time she has a party. Every cop's called 17 times. What are they with the Donner party? Oh, my God. Somebody's eating all of them. Oh, no. The Johnson's aren't here. Oh, Jesus. Help us.

So they didn't go on the routes where Nancy would typically run to look for her. They went to the house here. Now, yeah, a Cary police officer arrives. She tells him that Nancy was expected at her house to paint. And now the neighbors and friends start gathering around the house, too, because they see cops out there. Jessica now...

Is in the middle of their front yard with cops and half the neighborhood around out of breath, losing her mind, begin screaming, quote, I know Brad did this. Made her 45 minutes late. Yes. So, I mean, Jesus, this is a lot, man. Yeah. They call her parents who were at a funeral in Edmonton. Oh, my God.

And the father ignored the calls because there's at a funeral and the calls kept coming so incessantly that he had to pick it up. And it was their daughter, Krista, telling them that she got a call from Jessica saying that Nancy's missing. As they left the church, Gary said to his wife, Donna, the story is not going to have a happy ending. No shit. So Jessica's on the warpath. Okay.

She now gets in two huge arguments with the Cooper's friends over this because they're all going, hey, calm down a minute. And she's like, no, you don't understand. I can't calm down till I see your face. So she had gotten an argument with Mike Morwick when she instructed him on how to handle children during a crisis.

Mike's wife, Clea was caring for the Cooper children while Brad deals with the cops and talks to them and tries to figure out where his wife is. So she is then telling this woman how to deal with the kids. Right? Well, you can watch them then if you want to. So Mike, the husband in the situation was annoyed with her and told her to shut the fuck up. Basically said, stop trying to take control of the kids. We're watching the kids. Don't worry about it. Worry about yourself. So Jessica had another heated discussion now with Mike Hiller, the guy who was supposed to play tennis with Brad and,

So by that time, she told everyone that she could possibly think of that she had contacts for in her goddamn phone that Nancy was expected at her house that morning to paint. But Mike told Jessica that didn't make any sense because I had plans to play tennis with Brad. And I talked to Nancy last fucking night and said, Brad's going to be available at 9 a.m., right? And she said, yes, no problem. So I don't think you I think you mixed your plans with Nancy up, basically. Had to.

Yes. So he even said he even said she confirmed to my face that she'd be watching the children tomorrow while he played tennis. She never mentioned she had painting plans or anything like that. So Jessica burst out and said, I know he fucking did it. Start screaming about it in this guy's face.

She then told Mike not to talk to the police and that she would be the point person on this whole thing since she was the one who called the cops. So just you stay out of this. You don't go tell the cops that Brad didn't kill her. I'll tell Brad that she's dead. I'll tell the cops Brad killed her and she's dead. Thank you.

So he's now she's accusing Brad of killing her and harming her, hiding her or something. She also made more statements during another 911 call. She referenced that Nancy would run with Carrie, but then it sounded like she said used to run with her on the recording. She used to run with her, meaning she's not around anymore, which is very weird. Very bizarre. Yeah.

She mentioned that it was odd that Brad would call and ask for Carrie's number as well. I don't know why that would be odd. Yeah. She said, do you have this? He said, do you have this person's number who my wife is supposed to be running with? Which makes all this. That's what anybody would do, I would think. Yeah.

So Jessica also said that it was odd that Nancy didn't tell her about any plans to run. But that didn't make sense because they hadn't they don't really run together a lot. Those two. It's Nancy runs on her own. She runs on her own. So it's like, you know, and the cops go, yeah, none of this is a red flag for us, basically.

All the shit you're telling us just sounds like an adult woman is doing something for two hours. This is all very normal. And you're out of your fucking mind, basically. Like, calm down, Jessica. Karens do Karen things. You're being a real Jessica right now. Yeah. You're doing way too much Jessica shit right now. Calm down. You're having a full Jess out at the moment. You need to calm the fuck down. You're really Jessing it up. You're Jessing out hard right now.

So Brad tells police, you know, she left shortly after seven to go jogging. And that's what happened. And he said, okay. Now this immediately gets into the press. She's 34 years old, blonde, attractive, affluent, and missing. Mom. And a mom. Fucking...

As you know, that'll blow right up in the sky, especially in Cary, North Carolina. That is tabloid fodder right there. That's fantastic. No shit. So the town tries to calm everybody down. There's a statement. The general public is not concerned about whether a drug dealer kills another drug dealer. People are concerned about the

things that happen in their neighborhood or to people who are in the same station in life or the same socioeconomic position. This is the assistant district attorney said this. We don't give a shit about people who aren't just like us is what he just said. That's who gets that's what gets their attention. He said there's a lot of people that jog and carry and all over the country. And, you know, everybody who goes out jogging is thinking, what happened to this woman? This man says she went out for a run.

Then the chief here, Chief Bazemore, publicly states that this is an isolated incident and that joggers are safe and don't worry about it. Don't worry about a thing. All good, basically. Then there is a rumor here. During one of the press conferences with this Chief Bazemore, a reporter asks if she could confirm a rumor that Brad had purchased bleach at 4 o'clock in the morning the day Nancy disappeared.

Whose rumor is that? I wonder. This has Jessica's fucking fingerprints all over it. No, I have no idea. I'm just kidding. Chief responded that she couldn't confirm or deny the report, even though it wasn't true. She said, I can't confirm or deny anything. So now she already knew that that wasn't true. He did purchase some kind of, as we'll talk about, he purchased Tide laundry detergent that morning, but not bleach. Okay.

So and it wasn't at 4 a.m. It was between 6 and 7. So a lot of people will always believe that Brad purchased bleach because that was what was out first. Yeah. And people never forget that shit. Now they talk to Duncan's the Duncan's the barbecue hosts here.

And the Diana Duncan said that she first heard Nancy was missing by a crowd gathering outside their house after this woman had gone. She went to get her eyebrows waxed, nails done, and a trip to the farmer's market. Holy shit, how suburban fucking lady are you? What a nice morning to have.

Oh, my God. With a wide brim hat and a vanilla latte. Oh, just pulling on up with a big bag of fucking asparagus just ready to go. This is fresh. Brad, Duncan, the woman here, she pulls in, and now she can really see because her eyebrows have been waxed. She's got nothing in her way here. She said that Brad was acting odd. She said his reactions looked false. They looked acted.

At some point during the day, Brad asked Duncan, the neighbor across the street, to come over to the Cooper house and look for the dress that Nancy had on in the cookout the day before. Now, Duncan said she and Brad searched the house for a black dress, and police officers wanted to let the search dogs sniff the dress before they started the hunt for Nancy. Okay.

But before Nancy, Nancy had the problem is she didn't wear a black dress. Remember, she wore a green dress with black pattern on it. Right. And it's different. And she had a sports bra under a white shirt. Yes. Before. Right. That morning when she went out running. Right. Yeah. So this Duncan lady said she thought Brad was intentionally misleading her about the dress.

She said she couldn't recall what Nancy was wearing that night, even seeing later on, seeing the dress she had on the teal green dress. She said she still wasn't certain what she had on that night. Now, now there's Bella. OK, remember Cleo Morwick? She is the one of the targets of Jessica's rage as not not tending to the children properly during the situation.

She was watching the two children on the afternoon of July 12th while this was going on. And at some point, Bella, who's four and a half at the time, she's the older one, told Clea that she saw her mother that morning and she was wearing black shorts and a white T-shirt.

Okay. She said, I saw mommy this morning. That's what she had on. Police didn't interview Bella, though, at that time. They just figured she's four and a half. She's a little dummy. Oh, yeah. Yeah. She doesn't know shit. She doesn't know shit. So, yeah, nothing. And, you know, a kid's going to lose their memory pretty quick of shit. So she said this was around. She said it around five o'clock p.m. She told the lady. And then the lady went and got a cop and was like, she just told me this just so you know.

So that was Detective Dismukes wrote that down. Clea, she said, quote, Clea told me around 5 p.m. today she spoke with the oldest daughter, Bella, and asked her if she saw her mommy today. Clea told me she asked Bella what her mommy was wearing when she saw her today. Clea reported Bella told her mommy told her that mommy was wearing black shorts and a white T-shirt. That's from the actual incident report of the police report. Her husband, an elder child, saw her leaving for her run Saturday morning.

Also on there. Now, the cops never spoke directly to Bella or if they did, it's not in any of the reports anywhere, which is very strange, I would say here. But anyway, NBC News now now this is getting national. Now, I don't even know where she is. They say now there's this is a quote from NBC News, quote, In fact, police have yet to confirm that she actually left her home that morning at 7 a.m., as her husband stated that.

Oh, we don't even know if she did. NBC News is saying they think Brad might have killed her, basically. We don't even know if she left the house. They're throwing some shit out there willy-nilly. Oh, yeah. Said, where are the witnesses independent of her husband who saw her leave or enter another car or simply walk down the street that Saturday morning?

Now, they said, and then NBC News continued, now unconfirmed reports are circulating that Brad may have purchased bleach as early as 4 a.m. the day Nancy was reported missing. Lester Holt, take it easy. Fucking calm down. Now, here's another little discrepancy that comes around. I'm going to show you a picture of a bed. See that bed? Yeah. Okay. That looks, what, slept in, I would say? Both sides, yeah. Both sides, okay. Just check him because- The whole bed.

Detective Daniels wrote in his report that the bed did not appear to have been slept in. What the fuck kind of shithole does he live in? I don't understand. What are you, sleeping on top of newspapers or something? The covers, and I'll put it on social media, but the covers are all pulled back. People just threw the covers off and then got out. The pillows are askew and mashed in, and the sheets are ruffled. It looks...

That was brand new and fresh made? Weird. Detective Daniels wrote this on this day referring to the bed that the bed did not look slept in. When asked, he testified later that it looked as if someone had sat in it. And when they asked the detective who first got there or wrote the note about it, he said he sat on the bed.

Why would you sit on the bed, you fucking idiot? Yeah, why would you touch anything? And didn't document that he sat in it. Didn't come out until later. Then he took a photo of the bed. And the bedding would later be sent to the Bureau of Investigation for bodily fluid and fiber analysis. And this guy didn't bother to tell anybody that he contaminated it by sitting on it. And it's the marital bed, so there's going to be some... There's going to be some stains. Yeah. There's going to be some kind of stains.

So now she doesn't come home the rest of the 12th. Gone. Not there. For days, the friends searched for a couple days. They go through the woods and lakes and all the routes that they might have jogged on and everything else. I mean, between her and her friend's subdivision, which is six miles away. Basically, they cover everything in between there. They put flyers up as well.

Here. Missing flyers, as we'll talk about a lot of those. And we're going to talk about also what Brad's what Brad's story is. And we'll get to that because I know I purposely haven't said that yet. He he has a detailed blow by blow of what happened that morning.

So we'll talk about that. Now, missing flyers go up. They're posted throughout the town, handed out during coordinated search efforts on Sunday and Monday, July 13th and 14th. Police began receiving calls from people immediately who believed they saw Nancy. Oh.

That so that's interesting. Sixteen people reported seeing a jogger resembling Nancy Cooper. Some were 150 percent positive it was Nancy, they said, because they knew Nancy. So they knew she was 50 percent positive, 150 percent. Some of the people said, I don't know if it was Nancy. It was a woman in a white T-shirt. It's a gal. Yeah. But the other people said, I've seen I've seen I know Nancy. Yeah.

Some people say they waved to Nancy and she waved back. Oh, Nancy. Hi, so and so. So that's Nancy. That seems like Nancy. Details from witnesses, including clothing descriptions, build hair colors, specific locations, times and even exchange greetings.

Four people also provided information about a white and maroon van that was going around the area. This is starting to sound familiar. Jogging vans. Missing women. Did she happen to have a golden retriever with her? I was going to say, she had a golden retriever, and if she's nine months pregnant, we are looking for Scott Peterson here. Or there's a serial killer who does the same thing every night. Same shit. It's like, oh, good idea. Yeah.

This is right around, you know, that happened 10 years before this. Yeah. So Rosemary Zednick lived in the same neighborhood as the Coopers. She didn't know Nancy, but she was certain she saw her that morning. She described how she was walking her dog and came face to face with Nancy as she jogged by. Rosemary said hello to Nancy and Nancy said hi and continued jogging.

When Rosemary saw the flyer, she became very concerned. In fact, she was so positive she saw Nancy, she called police several times and no one ever followed up with her. She had to keep calling and calling. Another similarity. Now, Rosemary contacted later on attorneys here to give them the information because the cops didn't talk to her. They met with her and discussed the details. Okay.

this is, there's a lot of people like this. Okay. Um, here is a Ms. White advised that she was running on Carrie Parkway around Oh, 800 hours when she saw a slight woman wearing a white hat, light blue top and gray shorts behind her and gaining Ms. White advised that she turned on to lock me or, and was heading home. She did not see the other runner behind her and assume she went straight toward Holly Springs road. That doesn't exactly jive with the description of what she was wearing. Um,

The another person, Mike Pashby, said that he saw a female runner with the same build of Ms. Cooper running south on the northbound lanes of Kildare Farm Road Bridge. She was just south of the bridge when he saw her. This is around 915 to 930. Could not provide clothing description. Now, there's a lot of joggers, by the way. That's the other thing.

Another one, Diane Costello. She said around 935, she was traveling north on Kildare Farm Road when she saw a jogger she thought to be Ms. Cooper jogging against traffic on Kildare Farm Road at the bridge under construction. She said the jogger was wearing a white T-shirt. Valerie Wentzel called and stated she was jogging at approximately 810.

Southbound on Kildare near the Wendy's. She said,

Um, another one, Eddie Wong said that he was walking. She was walking. Her dog, Edie Wong was walking her dog on the trail and hemlock blocks bluffs nature preserve. When she saw someone that looked like Ms. Cooper, she thinks the subject was wearing a white t-shirt with pink trim and that her hair was pulled back.

Keith Roberts walking his dog, saw someone matching Ms. Cooper's description, called and left a message, called back again and told dispatch he thinks he saw the missing person on LeVar Road east from Kildare Farm Road. She told him that he had a cute dog and she passed. So Nancy said, hey, cute dog. She also he also stated that he did not want anyone else to call him back. Don't leave me alone, by the way. I gave you all my info. That's all I've got. Don't call back.

Jesus Christ. Another woman here said, or a guy, Mr. Thompson, stated that he and his friend were fishing at Lake Lockmere on Saturday when they were loading their fishing boat onto the trailer at the boat ramp when they saw a female jogger on Lockmere Drive. The female was about the same height as the missing Nancy Cooper. The female was wearing a white baseball cap and white tank top. The female was running on Lockmere Drive toward Cary Parkway, and she was running alone.

A Sylvia Hink said between 7 and 8 o'clock she was sitting on her front porch reading her newspaper when she noticed two white female joggers. She stated they were not jogging together. The jogger in front was wearing light blue shorts, but she couldn't remember what the second jogger was wearing except something light.

So there's that. Curtis Hodges said he called the cops to report that he may have seen a missing person, which is Nancy. He stated he saw a female running on Kildare Farm Road. Some woman was running on Kildare Farm Road. There was certainly a jogger. For sure. 100% there's a jogger. Heading outbound and was near the golf course. He stated he saw a picture of the woman posted and is positive it was her. He stated that she was wearing a white tank top and black shorts. Okay.

Another person said that they were driving through Regency Parkway, 7.55 a.m., and stated while traveling there, observed a white female with dirty blonde hair wearing a baseball cap with her ponytail coming out the back, wearing white shorts with maybe a tight sleeveless shirt.

She advised that after seeing Nancy's twin sister on television, she remembered seeing the female jogger because she said, holy shit, that lady looks like that. Yeah. Did she look like this lady? That's better than a photograph. If you have a best door, if they're going to like door to door with a picture, just send the twin with them. Have you seen another one of these exact just exact replica of this? Put her in the same clothes and have her jog by and be like, look like that. That's exactly the greatest shit. Yes, I would do that with twins on everything if it was possible here.

Um, another Beth Fenton was certain she saw Nancy on the morning of July 12th, but the time the detective finally spoke with her was months, months later. And, uh, yeah, she said that a white female wearing a white t-shirt with black stripes going down the side. She stated the female was wearing black shorts, a white sun visor and light colored tennis shoes. She said that she was about five, seven, 120 pounds. Um, interesting. Now, um, one, uh,

One of the police officers here that was one of the first to arrive at the home the day Nancy disappeared was Daniel Hayes. He reported he saw a woman who looked like Nancy. Oh, even the police see it. Jogging in the bike lane at 7 a.m. while he was on his patrol. This was the same location where Rosemary, the one woman, reported seeing Nancy as well.

Officer Hayes wrote about this in a report after seeing a photo of Nancy in the Cooper home. That's when he saw a photo. He's like, oh, that's that lady I saw this morning. I saw her. Oh, shit. So that's very interesting. Although two and a half years later when it comes up in court, he never mentions that. No? No.

He said, finally, I also remembered, this is from his report, that when I first started my shift, I was traveling east on Lockmere Drive at about 7 a.m. I had just passed the first lake off Lockmere when I noticed a white female runner was heading west toward Lockmere Drive, running in the bicycle lane, wearing a light blue tank top, matching shorts, light brown hair, ponytail. At the time, I thought nothing of it except wondering why is she running in the bike lane and not on the sidewalk. So there's a lot of people who said they saw her.

Now let's start with much like Lacey Peterson. Let's start with the van sightings. Lots of van sightings. Okay. By the evening of July 11th, which is the night before, there were already independent reports. This is before she went missing while they were at the barbecue. People are calling the cops saying there was different for independent reports about suspicious vans in the area. Really? Yeah.

Okay. Oh, okay.

He stated about two months ago, Nancy had told him someone in a van tried to kidnap a jogger. And he stated that she had not been involved in this and had only heard about it secondhand, which I mean, Christ almighty, she could have read that on fucking Facebook. You know what I mean? Nancy also mentioned something about a red van to Diana Duncan and some other friends. This is right out of Nancy's mouth. So it was interesting. There were email warnings between them to be careful when jogging alone.

So they asked Nancy, did she ever tell you she heard someone in a red van tried to abduct a female jogger? And she said, yeah, it rings a bell when you say it, but I didn't remember it before you asked.

Following are the witness descriptions here. Jan Boyer, 8.45 p.m. Friday night, the 11th, barbecue night. While walking her dog, she saw what she described as a white truck heading toward the cul-de-sac where later on toward a cul-de-sac, the van had no headlights. She noticed and thought that was odd because there was nothing back where the van was driving and it was dark and the headlights were off. So that seemed odd.

Nothing good going on there. Dale Kurbritz said just past midnight on that night, Friday night, the 11th, so into the morning of the 12th, Dale awoke to the sound of his doorbell, which would ring when his outer storm door was open. So he had like one of those. He went to see who was there and saw a white van behind some bushes, then noticed someone speeding away in the van down the street at a high speed with the lights off.

Who just opened my fucking storm door? Tried to just see if the door was open, apparently. Oh, boy. He called police and requested patrols of the neighborhood. The police were called at 12.17 a.m. So this is three and a half hours after the last sighting. Curtis Hodges at 7.10 a.m. the morning Nancy went missing. Ten minutes after Brad said she left. Yeah. He noticed a woman jogger near Lockmere Golf Course, then saw a van driving toward him. As it got close to the woman, it did a U-turn.

When he checked his rearview mirror, there was no sign of the van, so it continued in that direction. It did not appear to be traveling in his same direction, which would have been expected in a U-turn. Later, he saw the missing flyer of Nancy Cooper and was positive she was the woman that he saw. By the time the detectives talked to him a couple months later, though, he said he was 90% sure. He described the van as an older model, reddish and white, maroon and white, with two Hispanic men in the van.

And then Sylvia Hink said about 9 a.m. the next day, day after Nancy went missing, the 13th, she was walking in her neighborhood when she noticed a maroon van parked at the intersection of Belmont Forest and Fielding Drive. Two Hispanic men were leaning against it. She found it odd because it was a Sunday and there was no work going on. And obviously, she said, obviously, these two Mexicans in a van don't live in my neighborhood, so...

I didn't see anything to paint for them. They should be in church today. Yeah. I said, trabajo. And they said they gave me a fucking shoulder shrug. OK, so psychic here comes in. All right.

The morning of the 13th. This is about 24 hours after it said she walked out of the house. There's already a psychic involved. That's how big this thing blew up. The psychics don't come in until after the news has blown it up so they can make a name for themselves. Or until after the crime scene investigators are already thoroughly exhausted. Yeah, one of those. But she's in there immediately. Detective Daniel sent three officers to the Lockmere golf course on a tip they received from the psychic.

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One of Nancy's friends, Desiree, gave the detectives the contact information for the psychic Brenda Shoulders, and this prompted a police search for a body or Nancy or something at the Lockmere Golf Course in the culverts. It occurred at a time when they had already received calls from multiple people talking about they saw her jogging. So they were following the tip from a psychic, though.

Now, July 14th, William Boyer's walking his dog on Fielding Drive at approximately 7 o'clock in the evening as he approached the cul-de-sac of an undeveloped area. It's a new construction area, so there's really just nothing there. Construction sites, basically.

He heard squawking and saw buzzards in the trees and vultures swarming around. So he assumed there was a deer carcass nearby, as I would too in my woods. So he continued walking and noticed what he thought was a deer, but then he came closer and realized it was a human body visible from the street and

He ran away to find his phone to call 911, and first responders arrive at the scene. And this is the same location, by the way, where this guy's wife, Jan Boyer, reported seeing the suspicious white work truck heading into this cul-de-sac with its lights off the night before Nancy disappeared. Right. Same exact cul-de-sac that it was going to. Oh, boy. Now, um...

And so they he calls 911 and the 911 operator said, do you think she's beyond any help? And the guy said, I think she's dead. I mean, there's fucking vultures around. It turns out that it is Nancy that they find her body is face down with the upper body in a drainage pond. Really?

Body had no clothing except for her sports bra that had been rolled up kind of under. So it came up under her armpits like she'd been dragged and rolled. Detective Dismukes and Daniels went to the Cooper home to tell Brad that a body had been discovered and they think it's Nancy.

Now, like we said, searches were coordinated all over the place before that. There was already a website set up by Brett Adam and Diana Duncan to communicate with the volunteers. Like this was a coordinated effort. They didn't just go out willy-nilly. Brett was Jessica, Jessica Adam, the one who called 911. Brett Adam is Jessica's husband. The last phone call received by Nancy the night before her disappearance was from Brett Adam's cell phone at 1235 p.m.

That was then. Now, at 12.35 p.m. on July 14th, Brett posted on the website, this is before the body's found, I just got finished updating the search map we're maintaining on Google. It shows the area that has been covered by volunteers reporting into both the Java, Jive, and Lifetime Fitness search coordination points. If you've independently searched any area, please let us know via the contact forums below so we can keep focus on new areas that have zero coverage.

OK, now that's interesting. Now, so think about that. Now, Brett's post also said, of course, the police will tell you searching twice or more is standard practice. So it's certainly not a waste of effort to look again, especially relevant given the heavily wooded areas and many small gullies involved in much of the search area, which is exactly where they found her. Yeah, yeah, gully.

Perform an autopsy. She's been strangled. Nancy, that's the cause of death. So hard, the bone in her neck broke. The hyoid bone broke. She only wore the tangled sports bra and one diamond earring. No signs of sexual assault.

Oh, OK. Now, Dr. John Butts performs the autopsy. Sure. Of course he does. You know which part of the body he goes for first. First. Yeah. He described the death as a homicide caused by asphyxiation from strangulation. He said there's a faint linear mark across the central neck in the area of the thyroid prominence, approximately one point three inches in length. And the trachea contains a small amount of fluid and debris.

This indicates that she was strangled by an object such as a thin rope causing a linear mark, though he said that there's no ligature mark. It's just a linear mark. Now, the debris found in the trachea can indicate that she was face down while gasping for air and breathed in dirt or water. That's possible. Another section of the report describes dirt caked on her knees and parts of her legs.

Later, an SBI chemist examined the fingernail scrapings and also found debris under the nails. But wait till we tell you about the chemist. Holy shit. Oh, no, that's a different thing. Never mind. All of these things pointed to her having been killed outside, either at the location where found or any location where dirt was present. A lot of dirt on her. Outdoors.

But if she was dragged, it would make the bra go up and put dirt all over her also. Yeah. Also, the house that was left in disarray is a fucking pigsty too. There could be dirt in there. There could be dirt anywhere. Exactly. So they're thinking about all of that. They said they didn't analyze and collect the debris found in the trachea for some reason. I don't know why. But there were a lot of things going on here. Now,

The Wake County Raleigh City County Bureau of Identification began investigating the crime scene. They diagrammed the location and position of the body and also drew the freshest tracks that led up to the body, marked the position of other items found near the body. Two were electrical wires and a cigarette butt. Okay. They also measured the wheelbase of tire tracks found near there by obviously checking that out.

Now, none of the wheelbases match either Brad or Nancy's vehicles. Okay. And all the footprints found around her are all too small. Brad wears a 13. That's a big shoe. That's the one I wear. You notice that footprint. So they're all smaller, all the tracks around her that they can find. They never take casts of any of the tire tracks or the footprints around her, by the way. Why? Don't understand that. Never plaster cast at all. Also, no detailed close-up photos were taken.

Okay. And that's interesting. So they also scoured the whole construction site where she was found hunting for anything. Maybe she was taken into a, you know, behind a bunch of debris and attacked and then thrown here. Who knows? So the police say they have no suspects. They also say that her death was not random.

And that Carrie's residents have nothing to fear. We don't know who did it, but we're sure it was someone that really was pissed off at her. So keep on jogging. Incredibly targeted. So don't worry. Maintain your half marathon training. Keep doing it. Chief Pat Bazemore said, I'm extremely confident that we'll bring this case to justice.

Really? Okay. Interesting. And the family's all there with the chief and everything like that. Jeff, who is Nancy's brother, said, we cannot possibly relay our thanks to volunteers who were tireless and tenacious in their efforts. Now, Brad wasn't doing the searches because he has the kids.

So, right. Yeah. He wasn't doing the searches. But he also didn't come to the news conference either. The press conference. You can't bring the kids around that shit. The police chief expected that he would be there. I think she could probably drop him off with a neighbor or something. Yeah. I got to do the press conference for my murdered wife. If you could just happens to be your mother, you know, you know, if you could just watch him for a minute.

So police spent the day with Brad at home and Brad gave them their permission to search the family's home and cars. Later on, reporters questioned the police chief about Brad Cooper, asking her whether Nancy Cooper had asked him to move out and whether the couple had separated their finances and whether he bought bleach or.

All this shit. Can you give us the crime file and we can just read all that? And we'd like to read everything now. Everybody tell you what, can we just have a trial? Like literally in the media, can we do it right now? Just at this press conference, there are people at home that want to know everything. So Baysmore said, we know that they were having marital difficulties and that remains part of our investigation. And yeah, one of the friends here, Morwick, the,

One who watched the kids said, at this point, we do not want to jeopardize the investigation in any way, nor do we want the hurtful images and stories to be propagated in a way that exacerbates an already incredibly difficult situation for those of us who are close to Nancy. Police say that Bradley was devastated when he learned his wife was dead. And friends said they wrestled with how to tell their own children that Nancy's gone because...

They all loved her. All the friends. They knew her. You could just tell her she moved back to Canada and nobody would. You know how she said A all the time at the end of everything she said? That means she's Canadian. And she went back there. Loves Wayne Gretzky. You don't know who that is either? No shit. So Brad is certainly a suspect. Yeah. They told him on July 14th after his wife was found about this. And they told him a body was found. He was sitting at his dining room table.

He rubbed his forehead with his right hand and held his head with his left hand. And he told detectives that Nancy usually wore a red and black sports bra when she went out for runs. Because that was before they knew it was her. And the detectives had not told him that the woman found near the drainage ditch had nothing more than a sports bra. So they said he held his hair and he moaned. The detective said, I did not see him cry. The groaning seemed a little strange and a little forced.

They also talked, the detectives talked about photographs he took in the Cooper home the day that Nancy was reported missing. He said the day she was reported missing, he recalled the TV in the den was turned to a golf match that afternoon. That struck me as odd.

A lot of people just put TV on in the background for noise and it helps them. So like I always, whether I'm watching it or not, I'm working with TVs on in the background. I'm not even watching it. I've gone through. Yeah. I've gone through 10 seasons of family guide. I've only seen a couple of. Yeah. That's what I mean. They're just sits on. Yeah. And also they found it odd that when police came to the house, they found Brad Cooper was cleaning in the middle of that when they got there. Oh,

Cooper told detectives he'd been scrubbing the house while waiting for his wife to return from her run. He said that she came home from vacation with her family about a week before and she was fucking pissed to find the house is dirty. So I'm trying to fucking be better. He told the cops. I'm trying to answer guys. Yeah, I got actual bugs in here and shit. I need to set up traps. This is bad. So friends and family said they found it unlikely that he would clean up the house just to make Nancy happy. Really? Yeah.

Now investigators also noticed that Cooper had been cleaning the bathroom attached to the bedroom where his wife had allegedly been sleeping. An officer said he saw a dried stain on the bed sheet in that bedroom. Again, that's two adults live there. Don't look, don't, don't sniff anything. That could be literally anything. We have no idea. Um, so he did also numerous loads of laundry in between the two days between the time his wife was reported missing and she was found. Um,

Now, at the same time, I'm going to say, yeah, that's weird because it looks covering up. But at the same time, he's used to working a corporate job every day and he has nothing to do. So he might just be like busy work. Staying busy. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Or he's covering something up. We don't know. So there he washed the teal green sundress that she had worn to the neighbor's cookout. That's what the police say said. He said he noticed a barbecue sauce stain on it. So we washed it.

But later on, it comes out at trial. I don't think he did wash it. No? Because it had deodorant stains on the armpit and it still had a grease stain on it. Now, the grease stain might stay, but the deodorant stains will go away with the washing. They should, yeah. Unless they're with that yellow shit. You know what I mean? Something. Yeah, this is just, you know, she's slapping some degree on. That shit's going to go away with the washing. So...

The investigators go from room to room looking for clues. They take photos. The photos portrayed a cluttered house with scattered toys, boxes and clothes in many rooms.

Jessica Adam, the neighbor who called the cops and went crazy, being a real Jessica, she told investigators she noticed several things in the photos were different from the last time she'd been in the Cooper house. Oh, really? She said a duck collection is missing from the table in the foyer. Duck collection? Fake ducks. She's got fake ducks there. They're all there. And bamboo was missing from a large red vase. There was bamboo sticks coming out of it. Okay.

Lots of clothes were hanging over the banister that had not been there the day before also. Well, they might be drying if he's doing laundry and he might have some things that he doesn't want to shrink. As someone who's tall, there's stuff you don't want to shrink because then you can't wear it anymore. The duck collection, by the way, they make a huge deal out of this. The ducks were later found in a box somewhere. Just because Jessica hadn't been there that week to see every design update that they've made on their house. Jessica's a pain in my ass right now.

I get that she's worried about her friend, but you got to stop Jessica-ing so hard right now. And some people, oh, God, some people put things up for like a week and then change their decoration. Yeah. Yeah. Or it's seasonal, too. I mean, what are we in? What is this? Fall. Fall.

Fall, yeah. So, I mean, no, it's July. It's the middle of summer. Oh, there. I thought you were talking about us. No, no, no. It's July. It's the middle of summer. So maybe they were up for the fourth. I don't know. Maybe those were up for spring. They could have been spring ducks. Once the fourth hits, you go, we're definitely in the summer now. We're past spring ducks now. And especially if it's like a mother duck and a bunch of little ducks. Yeah. That's a spring direct decoration. They're all grown up. That's it. That's it.

They're flying on their own now. A photo of the inside of the BMW SUV that Nancy usually drove showed a purse on the floor and cash and a child's clothes on a seat. Jessica said she had seen a cell phone in the vehicle earlier that day, but Brad Cooper retrieved the phone from a drawer in the house for the cops.

A receipt from a kangaroo convenience store was on the seat of the BMW sedan that Brad usually drove. A floor mat was on the driveway between the two BMWs. That's weird. Yeah. Yes. So Brad's story. Here it is. Okay. 4 a.m. He said that he's awakened by the two-year-old, like we said. He went downstairs to try to calm her down, but they were out of milk. All out of milk. Yeah.

Now, according to Brad, Nancy showed up right in the kitchen with him. She's an early riser, too. And they took turns dealing with the daughter while also getting some laundry done. They're both always up. She's up to go running. He usually starts working. It's normal. So eventually they realized that, look, we need to get milk. So Brad ends up going to the Harris Teeter store. And there's video of him in there shortly after 6 a.m. to get some milk.

Soon after he returns, Nancy said, shit, we're out of detergent too. I wanted to do another load.

So he goes back to Harris Teeter to get the detergent. Again, with more footage of him in there. He said that, yeah, while en route to the store, Nancy called him and asked him also to grab some Naked Green Juice. Naked brand, Green Machine, I believe it's called, that one. Not my favorite one. I like the citrus. The vitamin C one is good. Look at you. Love that shit. It's good shit. So get a Naked Juice for Bella. She likes the older daughter, likes it.

She's giving nakeds to four-year-olds? That's like a $4.59 drink. I'm not giving a four-year-old that. Fuck that. I feel like a four-year-old's kind of making their own vitamins enough, right? You can have a cup of Tropicana. I'm not buying you $7, $8, $12. No. I'm an adult. I'm depleted. Yeah, I have shit to do. You're full of vitamins. There's vitamins falling on you at all times.

So Brad enjoyed the drink, and soon Bella started asking for it, too, because she asked for sips of it. Just what kids like, dark green liquids to drink. That's what all the little kids love. Now, he said that he later on, he returned home, took Katie upstairs, the younger daughter, to his office to finish her bottle. He heard Nancy yell up and asked if he'd seen her shirt and then quickly said, never mind.

Have you seen my shirt? Oh, never mind. Like I found it. So after that, he said he heard the door open and close at about 7 a.m. He said, that's when she went jogging. She said she was going to go jogging.

When she didn't return by 1230, he said that's when he started getting worried. Jessica's bullshit was he didn't care about. But 1230 is like, OK, no one runs for five and a half hours. So that's when he started driving around and looking for her, he said. And he said his wife was often gone for long stretches of time, but not that long in a running running game. So he he told police he'd recently cleaned the trunk of his BMW because he had spilled gas in it.

So detectives found no odor of gas or cleaning solution in the trunk, but said it appeared to have been vacuumed. The passenger compartment did not appear to have been recently vacuumed and was littered with paper.

So nothing was put in there. In the house, the cops found Nancy Cooper's cell phone, a key ring with her car and house keys on it. That's interesting. You usually leave with your keys. The affidavit later noted that people who knew her well said Nancy Cooper kept her keys and cell phone with her at all times because she didn't want her husband going into her car where she kept her passport and divorce and custody papers. She had like a little roaming office there.

So police said that Nancy wrote about her husband's actions and those documents may have been in the car. They also noted that when she was running, Nancy made a habit of clutching her keys between her fingers as every fucking woman on earth does. And if you don't, you fucking better.

If you don't, you better, or you're a bad bitch, and that's cool, too. Good for you. I don't know if you're some fucking professional Christy Martin or something out there. No one wants to jump her while she's jogging. She'll beat the living shit out of you in the street, or our friend Mandy Maloon or something. She'll kick you right in the face.

She doesn't need her keys, but a lot of people do. So they said that's what she would use. So for her to leave her keys at home wouldn't be normal. A detective observed that Brad Cooper had small red marks or scratches on his neck. And he said he did. They said he didn't explain the marks. If you have a problem with that is.

If they're small red marks and you have a two-year-old, they're always, you're holding them, they're always scratching on you and grabbing you. Even when you pick them up, they grab you around the neck. You always have marks on you from that. If it's an adult fighting for their life, I would expect more than light. Those are going to draw blood, yeah. Yeah, light scratches. So they said, is your marriage okay? And he said, no, it's pretty fucked up, actually. He said, I had an affair with one of my wife's best friends. That pissed her off good. Yeah.

Let me tell you, that's not a good idea. Take it from me, buddy. So that drove him to marriage counseling, he said, but he eventually decided that their foundation was beyond repair. So that spring they decided they'd separate, share custody.

Of the daughters and all that kind of thing. Sharon custody and they both hired lawyers and nitpicked over furniture and visitation schedules and all that kind of thing. He said they slept in separate rooms. Their finances were strange, strange. So he had to put her on an allowance, one that she routinely routinely blew through by buying things she couldn't afford. He said he said, quote, status was an important thing to Nancy and I indulged her too much.

That's what he said, which doesn't sound great at all. Now, Nancy Cooper's friend said that Brad was so tight with money that she was selling her clothes and painting homes to buy groceries. She said the Coopers during the spring, the Coopers water was shut off in the home because the payment was late. Nancy couldn't get it turned back on as he'd taken her name off of all the accounts.

So that's annoying. Nancy's close friends described her. I assume Jessica's involved in this, described her him as a self-absorbed, awkward man that they barely saw.

And Michael Morwick said, Brad was never a family man. His priorities were always first, be it training. His priorities were always first, be it training for an Ironman event, his higher education pursuits or unexplained absences. Brad took care of himself first. So none of these people are saying like the guy works 65 hours a week or something. That's not this isn't about work. This is about extracurriculars. And an incredibly selfish man.

Very selfish. So after Brad, because they take Brad down to identify the body officially at the medical examiner's office, they said they brought him back and he was sitting at his dining room table again. And they asked if he would consent to a search of his home, like a thorough search at this time. And he said no.

Really? Don't think so. He said the police and fucking NBC News and everybody else has singled me out as a suspect already, and I'm not going to fucking help you, and I think I should talk to an attorney before I let you do anything in my fucking house. Okay. Now, they said, oh, shit, okay, that's a new wrinkle to this. Brad, by the way, because the investigators planned to obtain warrants to search the home and vehicles, Brad called Heather Mitor's husband, the woman he had an affair with,

to come pick him up that day. Will you come grab me? So police followed in an undercover car. Cooper spent a short time in his home, and later that night, he went... I guess this guy dropped... This is fucking wild. He spent a short time with Heather, and then ended up going with the husband for a while, too. So...

July 16th. This is all within four days of her going missing. Yeah. July 16th. There's an emergency custody hearing where a judge awards emergency custody of the two young daughters to Nancy's parents and sister. He hasn't even been charged. Wow. He hasn't even been charged. Yeah. That is wild. This is mainly the father and the twin sister are the main litigants here. They're fighting to do that. A judge granted them emergency custody. Brad said, what the fuck?

He said he's involved and an engaged father who Nancy Cooper called super dad. That's what he said. I don't think so. I think the truth is in the middle there, Chief.

More than a dozen of her friends insist that he's distant, selfish and absent all the time. The day a judge signed this transferring order giving the grandparents and aunt the fucking kids, Bradley had already arranged to meet with them at Bullwinkle's, a children's arcade and restaurant, so they could visit the girls. Instead, he showed up and the cops were there to tell him that you're not getting your kids.

It's a way to do it. No, you're not getting your kids. We're taking your kids. Yeah. And we're giving them to them. They said that Bella lost it and they had to pull her off of her father, basically, because her mom is gone. Yeah. And now you're saying no more dad either. And while she may love her grandparents, they live in Canada. She doesn't see them all the time. Her father is probably a little more close. Now, the kids don't know anything about the legal aspects of this at all.

They have a memorial and 300 people are there. And this is in Edmonton. So they have a big memorial in Edmonton and, you know, all that sort of thing. And they said they said that she they asked about the kids and they said Katie is young. So it's a little bit overhead. But Bella's starting to figure it out. She knows mom's not coming back. Yeah. They start to get.

understanding of time and space when they're around five. Yeah. That's because that's why that's when you send them to school because they know what's going on. But two and a half, they have no idea if mom, if you told them mom is on Mars fighting aliens, they'd go, oh, good. I hope she wins. Like they have no fucking idea. So yeah. What weapons she takes. Jesus.

Oh, shit. Now, they want to search Brad's office at Cisco, his home, both his cars a little more thoroughly, his computers, his phones, everything. They want to search all this shit. They're looking for financial inquiries, withdrawals, or other transactions, and files related to instructions, methods, or means of committing the crime of homicide or of disposing a human body. They seize a number of items, including clothing, car seat covers, and bed linens.

And the police secure a warrant for his DNA, sees his computers, telling a judge they need to search for this evidence. They find on here, this is the big deal. Okay. Through all of this, they find zero evidence of anything. Really? They have a theory that possibly...

She was in the entryway of the home where the ducks usually are. Yeah. And he strangled her in the entryway. And that's why the ducks were gone because they got broken in the struggle. That was the theory. Later on, the ducks are in a box unharmed. So that didn't happen. It's interesting. But they seize his computers. Police find Google Maps searches of the area where the body was found on his computer. Yeah.

Search is not not tied. No fucking things of right where your wife's body's found. Not things like Scott Peter less than Scott Peterson. By far, they found here. This was deep inside a laptop that Brad Cooper used at work were files that when pieced together showed a satellite image of the remote site where Nancy's body was found.

That's what they say. Now, in the documents, they describe his uncharacteristic cleaning of the house while his wife was missing, unexplained scratches on his neck, and the discovery of Nancy's keys and cell phone in the house when people said she always kept them with her. Now you get to all of this shit, picture Google map and all this type of thing, and they're going, hmm, I don't know about this. So much so that they even think that he faked a call from his home phone to his cell phone

To make it look like Nancy was still alive to ask him to get green juice. Okay. Well, to find out why in a minute, though, they say that he did this on purpose because that's a time when they knew his image would be captured on grocery store surveillance cameras. So he was setting up his alibi and his cover up here. Fascinating. So who gets involved in this? Nancy Grace and Mark Furman, of course. Of course they do. Of course. The two of the biggest assholes that we have to offer as a human species. Number

Never mind. Yeah. Fucking Jesus. These two loudmouths. So they're talking about it on TV. And Nancy Grace said, you know, this woman, Nancy Cooper, was a real star. The script said that she was excellent at ice sports in Canada. She said, yes. Can you imagine the envy, the jealousy that must have stirred up on his part? Oh, she was. Yeah. Yeah.

And that's why with intimate homicides, we look at family members often because it's in the context of attachment that envy, rage, and the wish to be like the other gets stirred up. And she was a star. Maybe he felt he wasn't. That is a crazy, insane fucking theory. Well, that's just a Nancy wishing she was a different Nancy. Wow.

Holy shit. She's an athlete and I'm a fucking loudmouth asshole on TV. Shit. How many NFL players would be murdered in bed by their wives then? You know what I'm saying? Like, what the fuck are you talking about? Wow. That's ridiculous. Yeah. But everything she says is ridiculous because she's a fucking silly person, a not serious. Not serious woman. Absolutely. Not a serious person. July 18th, 2008, there's a press conference. Brad's lawyers hold a press conference now. Oh, boy.

Okay.

Yes, they also said that there's no new developments. And they said, had there been substantial credible evidence pointing to Brad, I assume he'd be in custody right now. Certainly, yeah. The police chief, though...

cautioned into cautioned about reading too much into the court documents that have come out. They said when the details of a search warrant become public, everyone must remember the investigations are as much about ruling things out as ruling things in. And if the evidence that comes from a search warrant, not the warrant itself, that makes a difference in the case, just because there is a warrant. The DA in responding to the Brad's press conference here said that they don't see a man in mourning because

At all. They see what they've seen many times before in domestic homicide cases. They note that...

Brad had never called the police and wasn't checking for updates about the case. His reactions seem muted and dull. This guy said, I've been doing it for 25 years and I've seen, unfortunately, a lot of middle to upper class husbands kill their wives. And it's classic the way they act. Right. That's it. Yeah. He said he knew in domestic homicides there was nearly always a divorce pending, sometimes a girlfriend. The husband was usually a man who couldn't strike, who could strike people as a bit strange, who seemed to have a secret side others didn't often see.

This is very generalization here. Sure is. And they really don't like him at all. No. He goes on to say, and they often tend to be volatile and in public in their criticism of the spouses. That part of this is sort of classic psychological domestic abuse, you know, because you get to talk shit about the person and they can't say anything back. Mm-hmm.

So Nancy Cooper's friends are asked to turn over documents that they have about their troubled marriage. Anything that text messages, letters, anything. Show me all their dirt. Yep. So according to the records, attorneys for Bradley Cooper have ordered his wife's friends to turn these over. They subpoenaed them. Diaries, appointment books, phone records, pictures, anything that might prove backup statements made in affidavits filing after the death. Friends claim that Cooper was emotionally unstable, unfaithful, and had been controlling and demeaning.

But more than a dozen of her friends challenged the subpoena ordering them to turn over the information. So Brad's friend, the tennis guy, the guy who's supposed to play tennis with, said he was pressured by others to file affidavits pointing the finger at Brad for the murder. He also said that Nancy Cooper had a tendency to exaggerate problems in her marriage.

Okay. Well, he said laying in a gully man. So now, well, they're saying though, he didn't, you know, that doesn't mean he did it. So he, this guy says one example of the exaggeration is the story of how Nancy was trapped because she did not have a car. He said, Nancy was only without a car for a short period of time. Nancy told me it was her own decision for weight to weight.

Now, friends say that police, another friend says police pressured him. Yeah.

Here, that's Mike Hiller, same guy. He says the police tried to coerce him into admitting that he repeatedly called Nancy Cooper's cell phone to help her husband explain his whereabouts. Hiller said that police began questioning him with a conversation about the morning of the disappearance, but the mood and tone of the conversation quickly changed when a big, nice detective entered the room and put him in the hot seat by accusing him of using Nancy Cooper's cell phone. Basically, what they're saying is he called...

Using the cell phone. Yes. To set it up. A detective told Hiller that a witness saw him using her cell phone and Hiller said, I don't know where they were getting that. I didn't use her cell phone. I didn't help Brad and I didn't hurt anybody.

Okay. I think they believed me that I was being truthful. It contradicted everything that I had been talking about up to that point. I was like, I don't understand it. He said he was shaken up after this incident and didn't understand what the fuck the cops were doing. He said police told him they had to investigate Bradley Cooper because if they arrested someone else for the slaying without investigating her husband, a defense attorney would accuse them of doing poor police work, obviously. Right.

Hiller said the cops have interviewed him three times, most recently about a few weeks after the murder. He said that he accused the police of doing good cop, bad cop tactics while trying to coerce me to admit that I made calls on Nancy's cell phone to help Brad establish an alibi. He said they're doing a good job with the information they have. Personally, I wish they could put everyone who was in carry that day under that kind of pressure if it gets to the bottom of this.

Said, I'll deal with it because, I mean, this is what you have to do. They pressured me. I didn't have anything to do with it, so I don't care. But somebody that did it, maybe they'd crack. Yeah, exactly. Hiller said he and his wife were there with the Coopers at the barbecue, and he said, I specifically asked Nancy Friday night if Brad could play tennis with me at 930 the next day. And Nancy told me, yeah, that's fine.

Hiller said that Brad called him about 9.15 a.m. and said Nancy had not yet returned from her jog. And then Bradley called him three more times that morning. Finally, at 10.04, they rescheduled the tennis match, obviously. So also, Cary Police here had they this is the biggest fuck up of all. OK, they get Nancy's phone. Yeah, they rolled around in their bed and they're going to fuck up harder than that. They way harder than that. OK, they had Nancy's phone. OK, OK.

They put it in a drawer for two weeks. Yeah. Then a detective calls AT&T to get a tech person to tell him how to download all the data off of it. Okay. This cop hears this, doesn't do it as he's on the phone, does it later at another time and erases the entire phone.

He erased every bit of information off the fucking phone. They have none of her social media. He pressed the wrong button and then confirmed it? Yep, none of her social media, none of her texts, none of her email, none of her all of the shit that would say exactly if she was talking to someone else, if anyone else could have been there. All of this, gone. Poof, gone.

Imagine how stupid that guy feels. He's got to feel like a complete idiot. But later on, I don't think he does feel too stupid. I had to go buy a phone recently, and you can do it at home. They send you the phone, and you can switch it off. I took it right the fuck to the store. I'm like, I'm not doing this. It's a pain in the ass. They looked at you like you were 75 when you walked in there. Here we go. Another person can't figure out how to start their phone.

Here's a guy that can't transfer information. Here he comes. I will delete everything I own. You do it. I will ruin my next booked flights if you don't do this.

Oh, so the theory is they think that either Brad might have come home early from the party, got the kids secured in the room. Then when Nancy went to sleep, he grabbed her from behind and choked her out, dumped her body at the spot already chosen, cleaned the house, washed the clothes, used his telephone skills to fake a phone call to make it appear as if she was still alive. Yeah, that's a lot.

They theorized that Brad strangled Nancy when he returned home from the party after midnight, that he removed her dress, dressed her only in a sports bra to make it appear as though she was assaulted while driving, then transported her body to Fielding Drive. They speculated that since Brad was a voiceover IP expert, he must have automated a phone call to make it appear as if Nancy called while he was on his way to the store. Okay. That is crazy. All right. Um,

Everything would have had to work out perfect for that shit. Sure would, yeah. I mean, there's a lot of things here. He's got two kids to deal with while that happens. And they're going to be alive and awake and all that. The murder plan would have consisted of Brad pulling his car into the garage in the middle of the night to place the body in the trunk, hoping it wouldn't leave a trace of evidence or wake the neighbors or his daughters with any of this noise. Also include leaving his daughter's home alone three times, first to get rid of the body, then two more times with the trips to the store and to set up an alibi. Right.

There would also be the risk that they would wake up, become terrified of being alone, and more risk that they would possibly inform someone that they were alone, which would fuck up his entire thing as well. There's a lot of risks to be taken here. Not to mention tracking dirt from the dump location. He could get pulled over. He could get an ax. There's a lot of different things here. So October 2nd, 2008, there's a custody deposition. Again, no one's been arrested.

So the reason he shouldn't be able to have his kids. Nope. So the prosecutor said that he saw exactly what he expected from Brad Cooper, a man still angry at his wife and taking the opportunity to further demean her. Brad spoke repeatedly about how she spent too much money, drank too much and was never happy with anything he did.

The prosecutor said, she's the mother of your kids. You can't, you say you didn't do this. Well, how about shedding a few tears and saying what a great woman she was and how much everybody's going to miss her? Well, you're in the middle of a divorce, so you don't feel that way about her. She's kind of an asshole to me.

Yeah. To me, if he said that, that would seem disingenuous because you'd be going, you were divorcing her. You don't think that about her. You don't love her at all. You've been fighting like crazy. And this guy says, but they can't do that because they've never been positive toward them, even when they were alive. That could be true, too. That's the thing. You could go either way here.

Um, so they said during this, in the deposition, Brad Cooper swore he'd never been to the spot where Nancy's body was, was found and didn't know anything about it except when he'd seen it on the news that contradicted the evidence of the FBI investigators who had forensic computer evidence that he said that said he did a Google map search of the area, zooming in on the exact spot where her body was found. The prosecutor said that was like kind of enough is enough. Let's charge him.

So the judge awards custody of the kids to the Nancy's family. And on October 22nd, 2008, they charge him with first degree murder. And they said, this has never been a case of a jogger randomly attacked. It was a case of domestic abuse of the worst kind. So yeah, it's a lot. Now, immediately there is a free Brad Cooper movement.

Oh, yeah. There's a whole blog going on out there of justiceforbradcooper.wordpress.com. Look at that. They love blogs. This is a 100% Scott Peterson sister-in-law situation going on here.

So, oh, yeah, people are weighing in on the forums and there's because now it's the Internet. So, I mean, it's people are, you know, talking about what they think they are. It's fucking crazy. There's an episode of Dateline about the murder. A book comes out called Love Lies, a true story of marriage and the murder and murder in the suburbs. Yeah, it's a lot. It's a but a biologist whose husband worked at Cisco was so convinced of his innocence that.

Brad's innocent. She started a free Brad Cooper website and blog in his defense and later will write a book. Yes, this is crazy. At one point, there were T-shirts being sold with pictures of other suspects in the murder, including Nancy's family. Yes, Nancy's family and friends tried to ignore the shit. Nancy's younger sister, Jill, went on vacation in Hawaii when she saw a young man wearing a free Brad shirt.

She approached him. He told her that he got it at a thrift store and he doesn't know what the fuck it even is. I just needed a shirt. It was in good shape and it's 50 cents. I don't know what to tell you. It hides my nipples. So yes, now 2010, there's a scandal that,

An independent audit of the North Carolina SBI revealed that a crime lab analysts or many of them were routinely withholding more sensitive blood tests that were exculpatory to defendants. There were over 200 reported cases of this.

The Cooper investigation happened in 2008, which is right in the middle of when this was all going on, which we've had that happen in other states, too. In New York, there was a guy in Virginia, I want to say. 2011 in March is the trial. OK, here we go. Ten women and two men on the jury. That doesn't bode well. Now, they tried to get it moved somewhere else, but they didn't. It didn't work. This trial lasts two months, 36 days of testimony. Yikes.

Wow, that is amazing. The prosecutor said in his opening, you'll be convinced that Nancy Rents Cooper never went for a run on July 12th, 2008, and that Bradley Graham Cooper killed his wife and is guilty of first degree murder. He said that there is no physical evidence, blood, hair, fingerprints, witnesses, anything. The one piece of evidence they have is a Google map search and a search and the zoom in.

And then the zooming of that same, it's the same one piece of evidence. That's the only piece of evidence they have.

Literally enough. Nothing else, which is tough if you're a prosecutor to put that. Now, the defense said this is his their lawyer. The husband must have done it because we don't have another suspect. They had a theory and their theory was that it was Brad Cooper. That's it. That's why he's sitting here. They got nothing else. They also said the defense team contends the medical examiner's report will show her stomach was empty, but there were traces of caffeine in her body.

They say that shows that the likelihood that she woke up and had some coffee in the morning before her run, which is exactly what he said. She got up and made coffee.

So they talk about the extramarital affair, and they also said, well, she had an affair, too. And years after that, she had an affair with a guy from Florida. Then she had another affair in 2005 that we'll talk about here. Defense attorneys questioned basically everything. They questioned all the neighbors. Nancy Cooper told her sister that the husband across the street, Craig Duncan, her friend's husband, made advances toward her one night, and it disturbed her and made her uncomfortable.

Her sister said she was creeped out. So the defense is saying he she literally rebuffed this guy's fucking sexual advances and they live across the street. What if she told this guy's wife? Maybe he had motive to kill her. That's what they're saying. So the whole fucking trial basically is and also in the opening statement, they just skewered the police for erasing Nancy's phone data.

That's fun. Fuck. They talk about this whole thing is just a big, juicy. It's just affairs and fights and behind closed doors. And it's real fucking juicy here. They said you will hear from a click in and around Carrie. The defense attorney said they are pretty. They are popular. They are affluent. They are highly successful. And they're all going to say that they hate Brad.

They said, also, you're going to hear a lot about money, whether it was Brad's $135,000 salary, his wife's $24,000 American Express credit card debt, or, oh, shit, that compounds with interest, too. Holy fuck. Or the Amex. You don't want to fuck with Amex. No. No, no, no, no. Don't ruin your fucking life. They will destroy you. Your house will be an Amex center sometime soon. Call a senator.

So now affairs. Here we go. At one point, the jurors hear that Bradley Cooper said he'd had sex with Heather Mitor in the master bedroom like we talked about. In another, they heard of Nancy's rendezvous with a man she brought home from a Halloween party who washed the makeup from his costume before they ended up naked on a couch together. Nice.

John Pearson is his name. He told the jury he was too drunk to remember the extent of their involvement. Oh, you dummy. Blackout drunk. So here we go. They find out that their second child was born eight months and 24 days after they were together.

Yeah. Oh, the youngest. Yeah. And they never did a paternity test to find out. So eight months and 24 days is after Halloween. Oh, that's brutal, man.

So he said that he and Nancy discussed the timing of the pregnancy and she told him he's not the father. Well, of course, it'd be a lot easier to just say, yeah, you're not the father. Don't worry about it. Don't worry. I'm married. I'll convince him. He said we both agreed that we didn't remember the intercourse. So it didn't happen. Okay, that's all right. Blackout, drunk, naked people never fuck, right? Is that a rule? No.

I guess that's what you gotta do. Heather Mitor also comes up on the stand and said that Brad Cooper had an affair with him and, um, or with her and everything like that and everything. Um, Cooper admitted to having an affair with her and she was also the subject of an alienation of affection lawsuit brought by Pearson's ex-wife. Apparently, yeah, Pearson's ex-wife was suing him and included Nancy in it because they fucked. So,

Wow. He said he recalled they were both naked on the couch, but didn't remember much more. He said he had limited contact with Nancy after the incident and that they didn't speak much. But the defense produced phone records showing more than 10 phone calls made between Pearson and Nancy between early May in the middle of June 2008, which is when she was killed. And the phone records show that a series of phone calls between the two also happened in May 2007. He talks to her all the time.

Pearson said the phone calls in 2008 were of limited substance. He said the ones in 2007 came after Nancy confirmed that Brad had the affair with Heather Mitor. He also said that besides the 2008 meeting and bumping into her at a grocery store in June, he didn't. Besides the 10 times we talked and the one time I saw her in person the month before she was killed, I hadn't seen her at all.

But he also says he has an alibi for the night he was murdered. Do you know where he was? Or the night she was murdered. Do you know where he was? In bed with his wife. At his apartment with Heather Mitor. Holy shit. Heather. Goddamn woman. Good for you, Heather. Heather's getting it. Who doesn't she sleep with in this town? My word, Heather. It's crazy.

So then they bring in a colleague of Brad's at Cisco, talked about a phone account set up in Paris. Through that account, according to testimony, Brad could, if he wanted to, route calls to and through Paris to other phones. So because they alleged that he was having different shit routed.

So, yeah, they say that they think that he called a Cisco voicemail system in Ireland and sent a three second message to his office phone and Research Triangle Park. A colleague of Cooper's at Cisco spent the time on the witness stand talking about how Internet phone systems in a murder trial, you know, how this all happens. They said that Brad Cooper, within 16 minutes of on Saturday morning when his wife was reported missing, Brad Cooper made four checks of his voicemail on two phones.

Which would make sense to see if she called and left a voicemail. Sure, sure. But it also could be bad. It could go either way. They said they received the voicemail message that Cooper forwarded through a Cisco system in Galway, Ireland to his Research Triangle Park office. That was a message that Cooper had not received. It said test one, test two, three. Why is he doing that?

I don't know. Who knows for work? Who the fuck knows what they do over there? He told police that he made two trips to a Harris Teeter that morning before she left for a run and all that shit. So that's what they're doing here. So prosecutors say with his professional expertise in technology, he's capable of making a fake phone call from his home to his cell phone that morning to make it look like his wife was alive. Okay.

That's it. Now, quick trial break, by the way. The neighbors who were forced to reveal all sorts of trysts and affair and affairs during this trial are not happy. The trial revealed secrets that are now known to everybody around there. One carry woman, Angie Barfield, watch out, watch hours of testimony that unwound the lives of the most sociable people in her neighborhood. She said, I would never dream up half the things they got themselves into.

She only lives a few hundred yards away from the Cooper's home. She said she'd seen them and their friends touring the neighborhood with wine glasses in hand the year before Nancy Cooper died. She moved in before it exploded in price. She's like, these fucking yuppies.

And she said, we dress the same. We drive the same cars. So like I know these people, I feel like. So she said, but she realized she didn't know her neighbors when she heard everything from the trial. Doing terrible things like this. Yeah. She said, I can sit and watch what you did. Look inside your homes to see that you can have that much of your life on parade is sobering.

Also, they talk about no signs of sexual assault. The defense tries to say that this is July in North Carolina and that it could be too degraded to identify sperm in the same way that it happened otherwise. Nancy's friend, Teresa, says that Nancy told her she slept in jeans in her pocket. They brought her on. Another runner spent several minutes on the stand talking about how they put on a sports bra.

Literally. She explained that the sports bras often bunch up under the arms when women first put them on, but it would be uncomfortable to go out for a run without pulling the sides down. Yeah, if you watch a woman put on a sports bra, they put their hands in and pull it down. Yeah, that looks like a nightmare. Yeah.

Yeah, it's a lot here. Also, the Google map shit, they bring in that and they the defense team raised questions about the validity, the validity of the timestamps on the laptop files. They're saying those searches came after the body was found.

Oh. That's what they're trying to say. Okay. So he was looking for where. Yeah. Where they say they found her. Okay. And the judge ruled against the defense's attempt to classify two witnesses as forensic experts to raise questions about the computer evidence. And they weren't allowed to do anything with the computer evidence. Wow.

Yes. A psychologist testifying for him said he was behaving normally under the circumstances. Several strangers who swore they saw Nancy the morning he said she was jogging. The verdict comes in here. Now, what do you do? The circumstantial, the just kind of inference evidence is huge. He seems real guilty.

Does he? Well, I mean, just the fact that she wants money from him and all that kind of thing. He's got a certain alibi. Evidence-wise, yeah, motive-wise is huge, but evidence-wise, all they have is Google Maps. They did not find one drop of a sign of a struggle in that house, nothing. They find him guilty of first-degree murder. First-degree murder.

First, which if you think Scott Peterson, they didn't have enough evidence to convict him. They had a hundred times more evidence to convict him than they had. They had a hair. They had DNA. They had him searching title pools a month before he bought a fucking boat for Christ's sake. He's missing four anchors and her body's missing four limbs. Yeah. Telling his girlfriend that he's like in Paris for New Year. Like he's...

Jesus. So the parents are all decent Canadians, by the way. Nancy's parents walked across the courtroom to shake hands with his parents and said, I'm sorry for your loss. You're losing a kid, too. Yeah. And they all hugged and fucking because they're Canadians and they're nice people. If this was just Americans, they would have been beating each other up. They'd have to separate them with fucking bailiffs for Christ's sake.

So the jurors get thanked for their shit here. And the judge says, I have reason to believe the issue will be the subject of a television documentary and a book. So sentencing comes in. OK, you, sir, may fuck off life in prison for Brad. Yeah. All right. The district attorney said, I think the jury has spoken. The only thing that was dishonest about this was the defendant's defense. The jury was not swayed by those shenanigans.

Shenanigans. He called shenanigans. The defense attorney said, we're disappointed in the jury's verdict. We believe the case for Brad's innocence was strong. We felt that the jury had been permitted to hear the testimony of our computer experts. The verdict would have been much different. And they say, but looks like we have a lot of shit to appeal on, basically. And Nancy's twin said she hopes to hear from Brad someday. Really?

She said that, yep, she said that was the safe guy, the guy that wouldn't cheat on her, the guy that wouldn't hurt her. And he says that she says, I want him to talk to me because I want to know why. Well, I mean, I don't. Yeah, I mean, I don't think he's going to tell you.

The town manager said, with today's verdict and despite the very public and hurtful allegations to the contrary, it's clear that they are exemplary and Carrie is served by the best, meaning the police force. You erased a murder victim's cell phone data. You're not the best. Best cops ever. You're definitely not the best. We know that. You might not be corrupt or awful, but you're certainly not the best. You're inept. You're inept at best. They work tirelessly, professionally, and with unimpeachable integrity against their own current that they created. Now,

He appeals. A three-judge appellate panel issued a unanimous ruling. State Attorney General Roy Cooper, no relation to Brad, sought review of the decision by the state's highest court. Brad's attorney in return asked the state attorney general's appeal for review be dismissed. That's because...

The evidence in the case was largely circumstantial. Jurors said afterwards the prosecutors won with the computer evidence that the defense never got a chance to try to argue. The defense argued that the police investigation was completely inept. And who's to say why would their computer shit be any better than the rest of them? Right.

They questioned the timestamps of the files. The judge ruled against us bringing in our own experts. The panel of judges here says the appeals court panel added whether the error was constitutional or not. Failure to let Brad Cooper use his experts at trial was a key error that warrants a new trial. OK, so they said there's reasonable possibility that had the error in question not been committed, a different result would have been reached at trial, which is exactly what this appeal is for. So he's granted a new trial.

Not so fast. He takes a plea. What? He takes a plea to second degree murder. Okay. As part of the plea, they ask him, did you do all this? And he just has to say yes, but he doesn't have to describe anything. Okay. Now, during this plea here, this is obviously a big difference. They said, did you in fact kill Nancy Cooper and dump her body on Fielding Drive? He said yes.

That didn't elaborate on anything else. No apologies. Part of this plea bargain was he gives up the rights to his children who are being raised in British Columbia. He did it? He did. Well, the judge says he found it repulsive that Brad would bargain away his rights as a parent to spend less time behind bars.

But the in-laws agreed to the agreement. So you, sir, may fuck off 12 to 15 years in prison, which is nothing like life. No. He has to spend 12 years in prison, but he'll get credit for 2156 days served already, which is already a shitload more than five years. Yeah.

He could be released seven years from then. And the Rents has said that his granddaughters would be teenagers by then, and they could decide for themselves if they want to have a relationship with their father. What the fuck? Yes. So Gary Rents said, when we started this process years ago, one of the first things I said was that I wish the person who was responsible for this crime would come forward and acknowledge their guilt and own up to their behavior. That's happened today, meaning when he said yes when he pled. Yeah.

Meanwhile, on the Internet, everything went on. People are it's conspiracies. And he took the plea just for the shorter sentence. Justice for Brad is there. The Justice for Brad blog, Lynn Blanchard writes extremely lengthy posts. I have another 10 pages of her shit that we don't have time to read at all. But she talks about all this shit. Have you know, he's.

It's fucking crazy. By the way, Jill, the sister, started a program in Edmonton for abused women, a domestic abuse program. Yeah.

He had to do it, right? I don't know who the fuck else could have done it. You don't take that plea if you didn't do it. Well, you do because it's that or life. It's that or you're going to go back to trial with the same evidence and they could convict you. If my attorney's telling me, listen, you did five, you're going to get out in seven if you just shut the fuck up and say yes, or you might be going for life without. Yeah. You want seven more and then just be done and you can go see your kids or what?

So, I mean, whether you did it or not, it makes sense, honestly. I suppose. A lot of people that didn't do it, they'll take a plea because they think they're going to get convicted. And they're already in anyway, so what's the difference? 2020, Brad is released from prison. Already out.

He's out, baby. Yep, he's out. But the U.S. authorities said the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement would take him into custody immediately upon release and begin the process of deporting him to Canada. Okay.

She said the family doesn't want revenge. They've never wanted revenge. The only thing they've wanted was to protect Katie and Bella, and they've done that. The silver lining, I think, is that when he pleaded guilty to second-degree murder and admitted that he killed her, those children were protected, and from my standpoint, justice was done in family court. Now, the book is called Framed, an Examination of the Nancy Cooper Murder Case by Lynn Blanchard. That's what it is, and she explains in great detail

Fucking detail about shoes. There's a lot of shoe discrepancy. The cop saying her shoes was gone. There's missing shoes, but they're not actually missing. They're there. A lot of shit about shoes. The bleach thing they talk about and the computer thing. There is pages and pages and pages of how they thought of why they believe they fucked up the computer evidence based on their experts, based on the defense experts telling of it. So, yeah.

It is a lot. Basically, I think he fucking did it and did it in a way where he left no fucking evidence and did a very good job of doing it. Yeah, sounds like it. Jesus. That's what he did. He had a very good dismount, but I think he did it. You had to because there's no other suspect. The only person mad at her is you. I mean, it could have been a random person picking her up off the street because she was found with just a fucking sports bra pulled up. It's...

I mean, I don't know. Most people wouldn't want their... Even if they're divorcing, they wouldn't want their wife exposed like that to everybody. You know what I'm saying? So I don't know. I mean, I'm 75% sure that he did it in my own brain. Yeah. 75%, 80% sure. Yeah.

I don't think there's any evidence. I don't take a plea unless I did it, to be honest. Especially if it comes to my kids, man. I'm screaming. I get it. I'm screaming forever. There's a lot of people that are – when you think about that, if you're 35 years old and they go, would you like to get out when you're 42 or never? Yeah. That sounds like – and you've already done five? Yeah.

I'd take that deal whether I did it or not, honestly. Because if you didn't do it, you sat through a whole trial where you got convicted of something you didn't do. So you have got to be leery of a trial system because you know you didn't do it the first time and they still convicted you. So I'm taking the deal personally just because the world sucks.

Either way, I think he did it. Anyway, there you go. That is Cary, North Carolina. It's a crazy case. You see why we went to a little bit bigger town. But it's very small town-y. I mean, there's nothing city about that shit. It's all jogging around the cul-de-sac. A woman jogged around. Yeah.

It's as small town as it gets. So if you like that, tell the world about it. Get on whatever app you're on and give us five stars. It means the world to us. So please do that. Also, head over to shutupandgivememurder.com. Tickets for live shows. If you're listening early, Austin. If you're not listening early, Boston and Tarrytown, New York. Few tickets left for those. Get your tickets for those right now. Also, follow us on social media at Small Town Murder on Instagram, at Small Town Pod on Facebook. You can also get Patreon. We highly recommend.

Yeah. You should also listen to our other two shows, Crime in Sports and Your Stupid Opinions. Those are great. But definitely get Patreon. Patreon.com slash Crime in Sports is where you're going to get all the bonus material. Anybody over $5 a month or over $5.

Over $5 a month or above, I was just going to say. You get everything. There's a back catalog of hundreds of bonus episodes you've never heard. New ones every other week. One crime in sports. One small-town murder. This week we're going to cover, for crime in sports, one of the worst people who's ever been involved in baseball, Marge Schott.

She owned the Reds and was just a terrible nightmare, awful person. And then for small town murder, we're going to switch up what we were going to do. And we're going to talk about the Sarah Boone murder trial, which has been completed. And I watched every fucking minute of it. So I have to talk about it because she testified, dude. It was crazy. I can't wait. She brought her face and put it on the stand. That's crazy. She went down and demonstrated how she zipped the suitcase. Yeah.

That is like a murderer taking a fucking knife in their hand and demonstrating how they stand. And then going, I didn't kill him, though. Not

Not me. Crazy. So we'll talk about that. That is Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. And you get a shout out at the end of the show, which is right fucking now. Jimmy, hit me with the names of the most wonderful fucking people in the world who would never, ever put us in a suitcase, dump us nude in a golf course or any of the above. Hit me with them right now. This week's executive producer, Andy Fritch and his wife, they're celebrating their 30th anniversary. Happy anniversary. That's a lot of them. Congrats.

Not bad. Other executive producers this week, Indigo Clark. Thank you, Indigo. Thank you. She is fantastic. She has a sister that listens also. She lives in Arizona somewhere. They're great guys. Thank you so much, Indigo. You're terrific. Other producers this week, Peyton Meadows, Gary Howard, Janice Hill, Georgia Lip Tech, Centeno Kennels in Canada, Carly Plimes, I think, Leslie Maxwell.

Maxwell? Who says it like that? Annie Riffino? Maxwell! Erfino. Erfino. Erfino. All right. Patricia. Is this a man? Patricia Lawhorn. May Corwin. Kiara with no last name. Jen with no last name. Brie Rosen. Whiskey Chick. Katie...

Yep, that is correct. I want to get that name correct because she spent many years in school for that. Drescher.

that. Brent Lieb, Wendy Stanton. The doctor part, not the dresser part. Yeah, that's true. Adam9750. That is part of an email address because they put Chinese letters in there that I'll never be able to pronounce. Wendy Stanton. I said that. Jenny Mullen, Kurt Fowler, Devin with no last name, Connor Robinson, Lacey with no last name, Grace Gertin, Jacob. Chinese letters, not characters. Why would they do that? Are they letters? Characters.

Whatever they are. Who gives a shit? That's what I love. Letters. Chinese letters. What is that? A Chinese H? I don't know what that is. These are all English characters, right? Nicholas Tilly? That's a whole bunch of... Jacob Heater, I said that. Morgan, yes? I don't think that's right. I think they just...

auto-corrected. Morgan, no. I think it auto-corrected her name. I'm sorry. Morgan, maybe. Susan G., Katie Hayes, Michelle Hendricks, Miro, Kelsey Natatovich, Laura O'Malley,

Nicholas Dew, Jared Wilson, Morgan VB, Randy Rogue, Rochelle Trendley, I believe, Jamie G, Nathan Springer, Michelle Collison, Rowan8436, Angela Peterson, Zach Rieselman.

Madeline Gadder, Sonia Alexander, Lacey Parker, Gilbert Quintero, Jacob Sions, Olivia Alcorta, Storybook Farm, Colette Ormandi, Sarah Sari, Carly Miller, Kennedy Johnson, Travis Tatroat, LC, Tiffany Organdy, Little Oregon Big D, William... Little Oregon Big D. Ha ha ha!

That was so not on purpose, and you did not even notice you said that, which is hilarious. William Quimby, Andrea Nunley, Eric J. Reimers, Ghost, Akuma EX, Hope Luther, Misty Belcher, John Alstott, Taylor with no last name, Alicia Summers, Katie Kapler, Dee Pacheco, Zach Leopold, Wade Fleischacker, Emily Garish, Randy Glissman, Lindy Lindsey, Lindsay Behan.

Oh, like the sheriff of fucking Tombstone. Sheriff of Tombstone. Ashley Brady, Noah Jackson, Alicia DeBattista. Was he sheriff? He was sheriff, wasn't he? And president of the anti-Chinese party. The anti-Chinese League. Nonpartisan. Nonpartisan anti-Chinese League. We all hate him. Ashley Brady, Noah Jackson, Alicia DeBattista. Not us, people in Tombstone. No, no.

They all hate them because they're nonpartisan. Pasha Stinson, Blake with no last name, Matt Locke. Is that right? Matt Locke. Your parents named you Matt when Matt Locke existed?

That's crazy. Kerry with no last name. Michelle Hubbard. Kushal Kesta. Kush. He's terrific. He's a big Ravens fan. Great guy. Him and his dad. I love them both. Amanda Koester. Maybe Keister. Brandy Wilson. Liam Parker. Tevin Johnson. Marina Lindland. Sherry Combs. Declan Swans. Mark Jones. I don't know what that is. Wow. Samantha Redmond. Elvis Costello's real name? Possibly. It's...

Is that Declan Swanson? I think Declan is his real... I think Declan's his... I don't know his last name. I thought that was his real first name. Hunter Pogue, Allison Rodenberg, Lynn Weir, Robin Grenz, Etta Mead, Erica Labarier... Labarier? What? Labarier? Labarier?

Yeah. Don't look at me. Holly would know last name. Patricia Troutman, Daniel Toner, Ryan would know last name. Isaac Allen, Lee Buckner, Carolyn Doughton, Doughton maybe, Akira Schwartz, Kevin McCarthy. Fucking wow. Jimmy would know last name. Benjamin would know last name. Derp, Derp, Callie Mertens, Allison Legger, J.R. Okuna.

Megan Mast, Jay Hutchins. Terrific. Holly. Nope. That's Molly. Molly Miller, Leslie Camargo, Logan Pawalski, Pawski, Lena Polish, something. I've been watching a lot of family, something Polish. That's night shift. I've been watching a lot of family guy and he is just, God damn. If, if that show is not one of the best things that's ever been created, he,

It is so good. And I'd sit and write all this shit and watch the show at the same time, not really watching, just writing. And then I hear something and I just have to stop for a while because it's just amazing. It's so good. Lena Patricia, Ryan Quick, Tracy Adkin, Adolph what? Oliver Titt? I hope not. Lauren. Where are you? Adolph. Oh, Adolph, Oliver Titt. All right.

You're a real dickhead for that one. Wow. Really. Something. I'm not proud of you. No. No. You shouldn't be proud either, sir.

Or ma'am. We don't know. It's a man. You know that to, sir. That was a joke. Yeah, obviously. He's a real dick. Yeah. Lauren with no last name. Isabeau Blue. Heather Hachor. Hayden Young. Jenny with no last name. Lori with no last name. Bee Doe. Daryl Roussel. Mary Morgan. Holly Heldreth. Rosie Parkour. Austin Hurley. Tony Yates. Colleen Shirley. Michelle Sassuala. Becca Arnott.

Otto, Black Ice 23, Christopher Barker, Daisy Machado, Dan M., Milana Kobik, Evelyn Lankoin, I think. Evelyn, I don't know. Joanne Carlin, Jenny Grubba, Austin August, August B., Stacy Roy, Rhett Hone, Dulce Hall, Olivia Rodriguez. Nope, that's Olivia Gonzalez. What? What? Why are you like...

My daughter and her bullshit music. Amanda Davis. Karen would know last name. Stephanie Roening. Ryan Walls. Morgan Little. Sky. SGB. Austin Green. And every one of our patrons. You guys are the best. Thank you. Thank you, everybody, so much for all that you do for us. Honestly, you're fucking superstars and we can't do this shit without you. So thank you for what you do for us. Thank you for keeping continuing to do that.

Tell your friends. Keep hanging out. You want to follow us on social media, head over to shutupandgivememurder.com. There's a drop-down menu. You can find us all on there and find everything you can need and keep coming back when you're done with that. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

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