#543 - Baby Faced Killer - Menoken, North Dakota
02:48:04 Share

Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about one of my favorite things in the world, Audible. Oh, audible.com or that app. Oh, I give that app a workout. Let me tell you something. Listening on Audible helps your imagination soar. You can listen to anything. There's so many genres on there. There's more to imagine when you listen. And let me tell you something that makes my imagination soar in a terrible way. I've been listening to Secrets in the Cellar. Oh, boy.

Which is by John Glatt, and it's about Joseph Fritzl and locking his daughter in the basement for decades. And it is... You want to talk about imagination of who's the devil in a human skin? That's the guy. So check that out, or a whole bunch of them. As an Audible member, you can choose one title a month to keep from the entire catalog, including the latest bestsellers and new releases.

Audible's the best. Let's be honest here. New members can try Audible free for 30 days. Visit audible.com slash smalltownmurder or text smalltownmurder to 500-500. That's audible.com slash smalltownmurder or text smalltownmurder to 500-500. Now back to the show. Etsy knows these aren't the sounds of holiday gifting. Oh, or, oh, okay. Okay.

Thank you. Well, they're not the sounds you're hoping for. You want squeals of delight, like this. Ooh!

Ooh, and spontaneously written songs of joy. I am so happy. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. To get those, make everyone on your list feel heard with gifts like personalized jewelry, custom artwork, vintage pieces, and home decor. For original gifts that say, I get you, Etsy has it.

You know that feeling when you're at Ross and you find the best gifts for way less? Like brand name sweaters, the coolest kids toys, and plush dog beds? Get that feeling with every gift and save 20 to 60% off other retailers' prices. At Ross, yes for less.

This week, in Menachin, North Dakota, a brutal and bloody scene awaits detectives when they find several people slaughtered in their own home, but the biggest surprise is who the killer turns out to be and the wild nationwide manhunt that follows. Welcome to Small Town Murder. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay!

Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you folks so much for joining us today on another absolutely insane edition of Small Town Murder. And we're going to North Dakota today. We haven't done that many North Dakota episodes, so when you get some of these states we haven't done a lot, say Alaska, North Dakota, you know they're bonkers because that's why we're doing it. So otherwise, there's just not enough people to have enough murders, but

We'll get to all of that. Head over to shutupandgivememurder.com. Get your tickets for live shows. Austin, Texas, you are up next. It's almost sold out, but there's still a few tickets left. Get in there right now. Phoenix is sold out the next night. Boston's almost sold out. And New York, we released our last tickets. I don't know if they're sold or not yet. They're pretty close. Pretty close. Get on in there and get those. Also, get your tickets. You can still get them if it's before November 13th. You can still get them.

for the virtual live show that we did on October 30th. It's a wild case, hilarious story, everything's crazy, and our costumes, I gotta say, are phenomenal. So...

It's so much fun. Get your tickets right now and get in there. You can watch it as many times as you want. Pretend like it's happening live. You don't know the difference. Who cares? Get in there. Shut up and give me murder.com. Patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all your bonus material. Anybody, $5 a month or above. It's that cup of coffee.

Literally a mere cup of coffee. You can either have a cup of coffee that might not even be that good or hundreds of back episodes of bonus stuff you've never heard immediately upon subscription. New ones every other week. One crime in sports, one small town murder, and you get all of it. I think that's a better bargain for five bucks. That said, this week what we have for crime and sports, we're going to talk about pedestrianism, it's called. It was the most popular sport in the 1800s.

Wow. And filled with scandal and fighting and it's insane, dude. It's wild. We'll talk all about it. It was like crazy times in the 1800s. Can't wait. Then for small town murder, we're going to talk about the documentary The Devil on Trial, which is about the first person who's tried to use demonic possession as a defense in court.

And also we'll talk about other exorcism type things and all that and kind of the history of that and how that goes there. That is patreon.com slash crime in sports. And you get a shout out at the end of the regular show. By the way, speaking of shows, you should listen to our other two shows as well. Crime in sports and small to this is small time murder and your stupid opinions. There you go. Listen to that. So that's a disclaimer time here.

Here we go. Hey, everybody. It's a comedy show. It is. We're comedians. We are. Now, that doesn't say that the cases aren't real. That's the sad part is everything in here is as real as possibly can be. Incredibly accurate. We try to do better research than, you know, Dateline and be funny. So we're trying. It's tough to do. But we think we can pull it off here. We've been doing it for 500-something episodes, so we think we can do it. So if you think that true crime and comedy should never go together, I mean, you might not be for us. But...

Listen, what we do here is we don't make fun of the victims or the victim's family. Why, James? Because we're assholes. But? But we're not scumbags. See how that goes? See, that's real easy here. So if you think that's all right with you, you're ready for a crazy story, we got one for you. Here we go. I think it's time that we all sit back, clear the lungs, arms to the sky. Let's all shout. Shut up and give me.

murder let's do this everybody let's go on a trip shall we let's do it let's do it we are going to North Dakota yeah which most that's not said a lot in this world come on everybody we're going to North Dakota

Don't hear that often. This is Monacan, North Dakota. And I heard a farmer. I watched a guy talk about farming for like 12 minutes on a video before he finally said the word Monacan. And he had like a hardcore North Dakota accent.

Love him. This guy had like corn stalks growing out of him. So he's like a sentient corn stalk, basically. So I believe the man here. This is in central North Dakota, kind of right in the middle. It's about 20 minutes to Bismarck on the old I-94, I believe. It's about an hour and 50 minutes to Valley City, North Dakota. Our last episode, which this is episode 543 right now. That was episode 467. So it's been a while. And that was Abnormal Acts of Brutality. That one was called.

And it was abnormal. When shit happens up here, it really goes down. Let's just say that. This is in Burley County. B-U-R-L-E-I-G-H County. Whoa. Yeah. Burley. Didn't expect that, did you? No. That's why I spelled it.

That hits you out of nowhere, doesn't it? Yeah. The town namer loves a vanilla latte. Loves it. This is area code 701. History of this town. Started out, wasn't Menachem to begin with. No? No, no. Started out different with tons of different names. In 1873, it had its first name, which was 17th Siding.

What is it? That's the name of the, that's what they named the town. 17th. 17th and spelled out too. Not the letter, not the numbers. 17th siding, like on your house siding. Okay. It was soon, it was soon renamed because they realized that was the worst name for any place that anyone's ever come up with. So they went, let's rename this. So they named Blaine.

B-L-A-I-N-E for James G. Blaine. Obviously for David Blaine. They knew it was going to happen. And then he disappeared. James G. Blaine, a U.S. Senator from Maine. That makes sense. Blaine from Maine? Let's name our town on the plains after Blaine from Maine. What do you say? Because it rains mostly on the plains. On the plains, exactly.

So then they were like, no, that's stupid. People are really rhyming and everyone's making fun of us. So the post office opened in 1880 and the town was renamed Clark's Farm after C.J. Clark, who was a local farmer.

So then finally...

Oh, so the station is in Monaco, but it's not called Monaco. It's called Burley Farm Burley Station after the county. So the siding on the station still carries the name to this day.

Hilarious. Which is crazy. It is. Let's see here. It's in the it's kind of southeast of Bismarck. This task, like I said, 20 minutes outside of Bismarck. That'll play a play a role in what we got going on here. Also, the Menachem Indian village site known as the Menachem site here is an archaeological site. And it is a it's that of a fortified village occupied in 1300 in that era. Oh, around then.

And is important to the prehistory of this whole area here. It's one of the only sites that predate sites that are more clearly associated with the Indians of the area. The Hadatsa, the Mandan, and the Arikara. Arikara? Arikara. Yeah, that's how you say it. It was declared a National Historic Landmark in 1964. So there's that. Now reviews of this town.

How do they love it? No reviews of this town proper because when I tell you how many people are in it, you're going to go, oh, well, that makes sense. But these are for the county. So same shit. Here we go. Five stars. So on campus, if you're a student or just someone looking for a job, there's a pretty good chance you'll be able to get one.

Well, that's positive. That's positive. We all want that. The job area complete in the city is pretty good. The job area complete in the city is pretty good. I don't know what that sentence means. I guess they mean compete, competition? I have no idea what that means. I mean, if you just walk down the street, you'll see a sign saying that job is looking for someone to hire. Would you like job? We have job. Fill out application. Yeah.

We live in a state where the oil boom is happening. So if you're into the welding and other stuff like that, you'll get a job for sure. Sure. There's all the fracking and all that shit up there too. Four stars. Yes, I plan on living here for a while. It's a really good community to be in.

That's it. Whole review. I plan on being here. If you want a job, come get one. Come get one. I like being here. And then four stars. I like the four seasons in our area. Of course, summer could be longer and winter shorter. Well, you could also not live in North Dakota. Yeah.

is part of that stem near Canada man the word north is right there in there you should have figured it out like nobody thinks North Dakota's warm no I would hope not if they do they don't really know how maps and things work or climates and then finally three stars there are a variety of restaurants going from a steakhouse to Mexican restaurants oh they must be spectacular

The Mexican food in central North Dakota must be just fucking wonderful. That bison asada? Oh, God. The Mexican food in New York sucks, so I'm assuming it's going to be really bad there. You know what I mean? And to Chinese restaurants, which again, I'm sure. Yeah, I'm sure. They spelled Chinese C-H-I-N-E-A-S, by the way. The last one. Chinese. Yes.

I know of two bars that people like going to, and they said they're pretty good. They have good music. A lot of people go so you can meet someone new, and the drinks are good. You know, a bar where there's people. You'll get fucked up, and then you can go get Shania's food at night. It's wild, yeah. That's terrific. Yeah, you can get a fucking Buffalo Asada later on. It's going to be great.

I wouldn't know if there really is. Kung Pao Buffalo. Yeah. That's big out there. You don't even know. Yeah. I wouldn't know if there really is favorites in restaurants. Every restaurant we went to, it's been packed. I just don't think there's a lot of stuff there. Yeah. People in this town, 72.

Nah. Not 772 or 172. Not 7,200. 72. 72. 72 people. You could throw a rock from your house and hit more than 72 people with it. Like, just in...

Around your house. Let's see. There is more females than males, but again, 72 people. The stats are skewed. The median age here is 47.8. Judging by the math of the age groups, there is one 18 to 20-year-old person in this town. One sad, lonely, bored 19-year-old sitting there going, God damn it.

This is so boring. Fuck this place.

Jesus, family here, 57% married, very low divorce rate. It's 6.6%, which is like crazy, insanely low. No kidding. But a lot of this is farming. So it's like we can't get a divorce because we have crops to take in. So it doesn't matter if we don't like each other. Yeah, who's going to feed the hogs? You do the sorghum and I'll do the fucking corn. How about that? We're going to separate that way. That's a separation in North Dakota, by the way, legal separation. It's just you do different farm work.

It's about only 4.3 people, 4.3% of people are single with children. 4.3%. Yeah. So this is less than 4.3 people. This is a different deal, man. Race in this town, 96.3% white and 3.8% two or more races. That's.

That's it. Okay. 0.0% everything else. Religion, a lot of that, though, 66.1% religious, which is well above the national average. And surprisingly, the most of them here are Catholic, actually, which is Catholics and Lutherans, like really fighting it out for the top spot. Fascinating. Unemployment rate is low, 4%, which is about the same as the rest of the country at this point.

Median household income here is high, though. Rest of the country, it's about 69%. Here it is $86,250 a year. So much better. Wow, Jesus. Yeah, they're doing great. Cost of living here, $100 is regular average. Here it is $95.2. Housing is a 71 out of 100. That's terrific, too. Not bad. So if we've convinced you, damn it, you've had it with action and...

Good Mexican food and things of that nature. You got to try the Chinese of North Dakota. The Chinese food that has like chicken and pork in it and you want to go to more experimental fricking free range plains animals. We have for you the Monacan, North Dakota real estate report.

The average two-bedroom rental here, which I don't know if that exists in Menachem, honestly. It can't, right? They're not going to be an apartment building. There'll be more than 72 people.

Yeah. It's a two-bedroom, single, stand-alone home. Yeah. It's a $910 for that. Now, here, there's only one house that's in Menachem proper. Really? There's not for sale, though. Yeah. Here is a four-bedroom, two-bath. This is not there. It's technically Bismarck where this is, but it's kind of out by itself. 2,496-square-foot house, built in 1918. It's a two-bedroom, single, stand-alone home.

It's a nice little house. The outside looks a little dingy. Like it might could use like a fresh up on the paint maybe or something like that. But the inside looks way nicer than the outside.

They put all their money keeping the inside nice. And that's good, though. It's nice. I like an old car that's been the interior has been fixed up, but the outside looks like shit. So I'm into this. That's the weirdest thing ever, by the way. I've never seen that before. Really? I've seen houses like that. But cars, people start with the body usually. And then the last thing they do is I'll put these new seats in. It's like a thing people do now where they like soup up the inside, put a new motor in it.

Yeah. I have a classic car. That's the last thing I would deal with. My interior is all original, as a matter of fact. They're putting all new shit in these things and then leaving the outside a rust bucket. Okay, that's a waste of money. It's a fascinating choice. That's making it for you, not everyone else is what it is. Why not both? When I walk up to my car...

And it's, you know, not a shitty rust bucket. I feel good about it at that point. You know?

This house, $239,000 for this house. Okay. This is the only one in Menachem coming up here. Four bedroom, four bath, T-Bowl for each and every B-Hole. Holy shit. 2,400 square feet on 1.62 acres. It is just an average house. It's a little bigger than your average house, but nothing special here. There's an above ground pool that looks like it's about to collapse. There's that. Doesn't look wonderful. It's on 1.62 acres, $495,000 for that.

That is insane. Pricey. Yeah. Yeah. And then here's a six bedroom, six bath, 8,603 square feet, huge monster house, uh, 2.15 acres built in 1953, enormous circular driveway, uh,

It is, they say it's built, it was built by the renowned Harold Schaefer. Oh, I love his work. Oh, we all know Schaefer. I like his beer. I like his houses. They're all great. The property combines historical charm with classic luxury, making it a true masterpiece.

The bar has like old carved, really cool wood in it. It's really nice. $2.6 million though. A little pricey. I mean, it's 8,000 square feet. It's 8,000 square feet, but you're also in North Dakota. So you know what I mean? It shouldn't be anything over a million. Nope, absolutely not. You would move there unless you really want to farm. You'd move there because it's cheap.

Yeah. I would imagine. $2 million is not cheap. That's not cheap, no. Things to do here. Uh-huh. The Apple Fest. Woo-hoo. We got an Apple Fest going on here. It seems to be popular. They got a bake sale, tours of historic Buckstop Junction. Well then. Yeah, yeah. We've all wanted to go to Buckstop Junction our whole lives. Buckstop, yeah. Buckstop Junction. A silent auction. Food galore. Fermented orchard beer slash wine gardens. Yeah.

What? Fermented orchard beer? What the fuck is that? Apple beer? Fermented apple cider? What is that, fucking hard cider? I think that's like a hard cider. Hay rides.

Yeah, sure. I don't know why that's fun, but people seem to like hay rides. I'm not even allergic to hay, and it fucks me up. It's weird. I just, I'm not a, I don't, it's not a barn. I don't want to live, I don't want to be hanging out around hay very often, usually. It's a fascinating choice. People like hay, why not, I guess. And then live music. Oh, baby. Oh, here we go. In a town of 78 people. We're going to have live music. 74? How many? 72. 72 people. Oh, someone just died. 71. 71.

What are we going to do? R.I.P. fucking Fred. He's gone. So this music starts at 10 a.m., by the way. Of course it does. When all the bands are at their best at 10 a.m. When musicians do their best work. There's a lot of tea being made. Wow. 10 o'clock a.m. Backstage Pass will be there. That's the band? That's the band. Then at 11.15, Double Barrel will be there. Hell yeah. Playing a 35-minute set.

From 12 to 1, To Be Determined. Or no, it's not. It's TDB. It's not even To Be Determined, so it might be a band called TDB. TDB? TDB. To Determined Be. To Determined Be. Yes. Okay, all right. I don't know. 1 to 2.30, That 60s Band.

Yeah. Which one? We don't know. It doesn't matter. They're in demand. 2.30, Double Barrel will be back on stage for another half hour. They split their set into two, which is always quality. And then from 3 to 5, this is two hours now, the biggest set of the day. Church of Cash with Cat Perkins. Church of Cash with Cat Perkins will be there. Terrific. All right. Well, Cat Perkins.

Great. Cat Perkins will be there. Thank fuck for that. I knew that. I imagine that's going to be some funk. Yeah. Beats the shit out of me. Then they have at the church, they have a whole different entertainment lineup. They have brassy entertainment from 10 to 12. I assume brass instruments. Sure. Peyton Lilly will be there at 1215. And then the legacy jazz choirs will be there. There's also Kitty Yoko will be performing.

Like a child Yoko Ono? Kitty Yoko. Kitty Ko is basically what it is. And it's Chris Kitko is the guy who does that. Sure. Children's music and entertainment. Then at 2 o'clock at the hotel, Miss Sparkles will be there. Yeah. No, Miss Sparkles. We go, all right, that sounds good. No, Miss Sparkles does children's story time and book reading. Oh, damn it.

So not what we're looking for. There's also a mac and cheese fest if you can't stand that many apples. That's fantastic. Is there a Miss Sparkles that will sit on my lap while I eat mac and cheese? I mean, she'll tell you a children's story. She's going to read you Little Miss Muffet while she does it. But I'd like to see your tough it, darling. Yeah. Now, mac and cheese fest.

The vendors brought the big cheese is what it says. Yeah. The big cheese. New and improved vendors for Mac and Cheese Fest presented by Dakota Community Bank and Trust. None of that shit Mac and Cheese we had last year.

From Wells Fargo. The best way to try them all is to purchase the VIP Mac Daddy ticket. M-A-C Daddy. Oh, boy. With the most mac and cheese. Oh, my God. It says, please be aware that our cheese paradise may not be a haven for the gluten-free or lactose intolerant. Keep your eyes peeled on the official menu for any vendors offering gluten-free or dairy-free options.

Just don't eat mac and cheese if you're gluten and dairy free. All it is is a pile of gluten and dairy. Just pick something else. It's the worst two things to eat if you have those allergies. The absolute worst thing you could fucking get. They also said they'll have dishes including meaty delights such as bacon, brisket and more.

Oh. So you're going to have that here. Pork belly gouda mac someone is offering, which is gouda and cheddar mac with candied pork belly, toasted sesame, and fresh chives. That's good. There's going to be the golden noodle for the best mac and cheese and a people's choice award for the mac and cheese also. For someone who got screwed out of the golden noodle, obviously. Noodle.

gotta have the golden noodle and uh selected as the lil mac judge's golden noodle is one utterly amazing treats and eats they're advertising that it's the fucking stupidest sounds you've ever said dude it's there's all puns it's just all mac and cheese puns cow puns deep fried cheese curd a mini corn dog and mac and cheese bite cheese utter 2.0 they

They call that Hensley's Tasty Truck. They have also, which will have Flamin' Hot Piggy Mac. Ew, is that? Oh, no. You know what that is? White cheddar mac and cheese, which I love, by the way. I love a white cheddar mac and cheese with caramelized onions, braised pork, Flamin' Hot Cheetos dust. Yeah, ruin it with garbage, please. Take your nice meal you've prepared. Put some flammable dust on top. Put some industrial garbage on it. Thanks. Yeah.

Throw the fucking insulation from an attic on there. And then put roasted poblano lime crema on top. All this fancy ingredients to put flaming hot Cheeto dust on it. God damn it, we're not a serious people. And also getting sauce to barbecue and catering.

This is the bio for this is just a guy who loves to barbecue and wanted to share with others. Dustin loves working out of the food truck and his menu item is not your mama's mac and cheese. Not your mama's. Yeah, we're getting we're getting sauced, getting sauced.

A blend of six different cheeses, seasonings, and the perfect noodles and smoky bacon to finish it off. You will know about this mac and cheese and you'll know it definitely did not come from a box. I'm sure not. Generally doesn't come with flaming hot Cheeto dust on it either. So...

Crime rate in this town, what we're interested in here. Here we go. Property crime, less than one-third the national average. That's terrific. Very low. And then violent crime, murder, rape, robbery, and, of course, assault. The Mount Rushmore of crime is about one-quarter of the national average. Yep, yep. But, I mean, it's farms. You'd have to walk all the way to someone else's farm to commit a crime. It's a lot. The fact that they're not doing it is terrific. It's 72 really kind folks. Well, not even 72 because –

There's some people that are still criminals. Some people aren't so kind. That said, let's talk about some murder that happened in this town. I can tell you about someone who's not very kind, at least. Yeah. So let's start out with Ronald Neugebauer.

And that is how it's said, I found out. It's a tough name. N-E-U-G-E-B-A-U-E-R. So that's a lot. When I saw that, I said, oh, boy, is that Nugebauer? Nugebauer is how you say it.

Now, we'll talk about Ronald, first of all, here. And we will start out with he's born in about, what, 1948 here. So he is 44 years old come 1992 when we're going to talk about the family in 91, 92 here. So he was born and raised on the farm he lives in as an adult. Oh.

Three generations were brought up on this farm. My word. So, I mean, and basically when someone grows up, they just put a trailer somewhere on the farm and live there. On the property, yeah. Yeah, so there's multiple trailers of people that live, and then his parents live in the house. And then when they die, the kid moves into the house, and we start to cycle over. Somebody else gets a new trailer, yeah. New trailer time, baby. Yeah. So...

Ron grows up here. He works the land around the buildings that his family and other families in the area owned. He's a farmer, and he also serves on the local school board as well. Is that right? An elected member of the local school board as well. Very nice. So he's known in town. People know him. I mean, if you've been here for three generations and there are 72 people...

You're aware. Everyone knows you. You know what I mean? You've met everybody. You've met their parents. It's crazy. So he meets a young lady here at some point because she grows up just around him in the farm, like on the farm area. She is Maureen Sherman is who he meets. She's about four years younger than he is, but she's the daughter of Ivan and Gladys Sherman, and they live on a farm right up the street. So-

This is all a couple of local farm kids getting together. She becomes Maureen Neugebauer, which is you have to really love someone. Sherman is very easy. You know? Very, very easy here. I'll take that name. I'll take it. Go ahead. So she works as a secretary at the University of Mary in Bismarck.

Okay. Which I'd never heard of that college, but sure, it's a small college. So they have a family here. They've been having kids. They have a 16-year-old daughter. So they started having kids in the 70s. In 76, she would have been born in. Now, in 1991-92, Michelle is her name, the 16-year-old, the oldest kid. She's a junior at Century High School where she's a member of the prep choir.

Sure. So there you go. She's doing great. Then they have a son who was born the next year. They really piled him up. His name is Michael, middle name David. Michael is 15 years old. He's a sophomore at Bismarck High School. I don't know why they go to different high schools, but they do.

And then they have Ryan, who's three years younger than Michael. He is 12 years old in 91, 92. And he's a seventh grader at Monacan Grade School. So that's the family. Three kids, family. Adorable family, yeah. The Nuga Bowers. The Nuga Bowers. They live on the family homestead. They live, they're like the kids, you know, Ronald's parents live right next door, you know, on the property. The family lives in a trailer, though, on the property. Sure, yeah.

So you got five people in a trailer, which is tough going right there. But it's not just like a regular trailer. It looks like there's parts stuck onto it or something. Like they put additions on it. Double wide and customized. There's additions put on it, which I've never seen before.

on a trailer, but that's what it looks like. Maybe Xzibit got a hold of it and there's a fish tank and a popcorn machine. Fucking some 15s in there somewhere pumping the bass out. 15s underneath the toilet. Yo, man, put 15s behind your vanity mirror, son. Wake your ass up in the morning, you know what I'm saying? Thanks, Xzibit. Appreciate that. Yo, remember how you had a bathtub? Shit's a fish tank now. What's up? Oh, thanks, Xzibit.

You know how you got aspirations of being a dog groomer? I put a dog grooming station right in your mom's room. I mean, we talked about grooming dogs, but we don't have a business plan. We all got to groom now. You know what I'm saying? It's set up. Make it worth it, dog. Okay. Thanks, exhibit.

Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about the most safe sponsor there is. Simply Safe. SimplySafe.com. S-I-M-P-L-I-S-A-F-E.com. That is correct, Jimmy. Let's get these people safe. If you've ever worried about the safety of your home and family, there's no better time to act.

Right now, you can get, this is amazing, 60% off a new SimpliSafe security system. It's their best deal of the year. SimpliSafe is the home security that we trust. We've been using it for years. Seven, eight years now, I think we've been using it almost eight years. And I love it.

We love SimpliSafe. It's so easy to install. Honestly, it's the best and the price of it. It's fantastic. You need it. Trust us here. SimpliSafe is offering our listeners exclusive early access to their Black Friday sale. This week only, you can get 60% off any new system with a select professional monitoring plan. This is their best offer of the year.

Head to simplisafe.com slash small. That's simplisafe.com slash small. S-I-M-P-L-I safe.com slash small. There's no safe like SimpliSafe. Now back to the show. All right, everybody. Today, we're talking about Dr. Squatch. Now, you might know this brand from their natural cold processed bar soaps, which are all great. They're amazing. If you haven't done it, check those out. But...

But now they've got the same real soap formula available in body wash form, and it is good, I'm telling you right now. They're made with natural ingredients derived from coconuts and plants to provide all-day skin hydration. Available in four unique and manly scents, coconut castaway, pine tar, wood barrel bourbon, and fresh falls. Dermatologists tested and clinically proven to provide 24-hour moisturization so you can still smell tough while taking care of your skin.

Maybe your soft side. You know what I mean? Dr. Squatch products are made for men, but we're telling you these soaps, no matter what and in what form, are loved by all. So you really can't go wrong here, everybody. My favorite, by the way, is the Fresh Falls. I tried that and I dig it. So what are you waiting for? Go pick one up at your favorite store or at drsquatch.com today. Dr. Squatch Body Wash for men who prefer natural.

Thanks for doing all of this now. Thanks. I mean, you went out of your way, it feels like. Yo, your trailer wasn't mobile. Now this shit's mobile. I put 20s on that motherfucker. You took our... Okay, well, now it looks like a trailer. Thanks. We welded a cab and put a V10 in this motherfucker.

Thanks, Exhibit. There's a gumball machine in the oven. Messed my whole house up, right? That's right. You never thought of that shit, did you? Careful when you eat that shit up, dog. Exhibit thinks of that shit, son. Gumball machine in the oven.

So the neighbors here, Jay Opdahl, and Ronald works his land, by the way, as a farmer here. Jay said they're very nice people. The nicest neighbors you could have. Sure. Said Ryan, the 12-year-old, the nicest kid I've ever known. Happy personality. Always happy. Loves baseball and basketball. The whole family went scuba diving down south last year.

Down what's down south, South Dakota, Kansas. Went on down to Kansas for their famous fucking scuba diving scene they have down there in Nebraska. Everybody knows about that. Yeah. So his wife. Now, this is the guy's wife said, but they were there. They're very private. This family, too. Also private. Keep to themselves. And the guy said, yeah. But he said, once you get to know them, there's not anything they wouldn't do for you. They're great kids.

They're great people and the kids are nice. Everybody's good. So, uh, they said, everybody said, Michael's a good kid. The middle child, the 15 year old. Um, they said that, uh, his one grandmother said he helped his family bring in the crops and even worked another job at a vegetable truck on a vest vegetable truck farm South of Menachem. Uh, his grandma, this is his, uh,

Maureen's mother said he's always been a good kid. We used to sit down. We used to sit down when his parents would take a vacation and talk about anything, not sit down, sit down. He was just a little man. I never had to call him to go to school. He got up and took care of the cattle, ate breakfast and went to school. He was very responsible. Just a super kid.

So, Michael, great kid. Wow, that's a long day before you even get to school, man. Sure the fuck is. Got up and took care of the cattle. I'm done for the day. After you sat down and talked to Grandma for a bit. I'm not going to do math after that. I've already done some work. Now, there are some...

ripples of possible abuse in this family. Ronald apparently has a super bad temper. Iron fist. Well, a temper because he'll even have Maureen will take off for a while and get her own apartment here in 1991. Yeah. Like he, his temper is a lot worse.

He Michael had a thin white scar on his hand and he was saying that this is it was the skin was split open between two of his fingers. He said he and his siblings were hiding under the table because their father was angry that the dishes hadn't been done one time and his father threw a glass on the floor and it shattered and one of the pieces went into his hand because they were hiding under the table, which turned out to be not a good place to hide.

So, yeah, generally, Michael will have a girlfriend that he tells a lot of this abuse to. And even she said that Michael's father even scared her and threatened her before and shit and did more than that. As we'll talk about, she said the father abused Michael often. Ronald did threatened her, the girlfriend with a hammer.

Threatened a 16 year old, threatened a sophomore with a hammer, which is crazy. Then at one point, and she said it was on purpose to Ronald ran her dog over, killed it, fucking ran it down in the street. Apparently on purpose, killed it, then made Michael clean it up.

That's fucked up. That's kind of fucked up. Now, this girlfriend says she even tried to report this to the authorities that Michael was being abused. Her boyfriend was being abused by his father, but she said that no one would help ever.

Yeah, she said she went out of her way to report the abuse, but nothing happened. And the father found out and then threatened her more. So she was like, well, I'm done with that. What's he so mad about? A lot. She said at one point his dad was standing there with a hammer saying, I will kill you if you have anything to do with my family. And that's crazy. Yeah. To a child, to a 16-year-old girl is a little odd. Yeah.

Just for being involved with the family? Yes, because they didn't like her. So rather than tell your son to stay away from her, you threaten a girl with a hammer. You threaten somebody's daughter with a hammer. That certainly will solve the problem, won't it? Wow. Nope. Didn't do anything, actually. Because teenage kids, you can threaten them with a hammer. They don't care. They're still going to do what they're going to do. You have to convince them that they don't want to do that or else they're going to do it.

So, yeah, she said he actually ran my dog over and made Mike clean it up. This was after the hammer incident. So Jackie convinced that his girlfriend's name, by the way, Jackie, I will talk about her in a minute here. She convinced Michael to get help at a Bismarck domestic abuse shelter.

Okay. She said, your dad is threatening you with how, like, this is crazy. You gotta, you gotta get help. So they ended up calling Ronald up when he was there. Oh, they called Ronald up, I guess to say, you know, what's up. And they basically said, this is from Jackie. She said, quote, they called his dad and said, we understand you're abusing your son, which made it worse. And then it was a domino effect. Spark plugs being taken out wheels off of his car. Cause then when he got home, he,

Michael, somehow, by the way, in North Dakota, there's different laws because of the farm thing. I think you can get a driver's license at a younger age. A lot of farm states have that. Is that right? Yeah, you don't need to be 16. Some of them, you could be 14. I think it's Idaho, you can be 14. It's like a farm license. In Arizona, you can get a younger license if you are a farm worker. I know that. It's not a driver's license. It's a farm operating license. But you can drive. Yeah. You can still drive. They just give you one earlier because you have to do it for farm shit.

So prove it. I don't know. I apparently you've got to show up at least a bale of hay under your arm. Right. Like something.

Some dirty knees and elbows or something. Yeah, dragging a bison behind you. Go, I'm going to sell this to the Chianese restaurant there, but I got to get my license first. I got to drive to them. You got to drive there. So he had a 72 Monte Carlo, which is a fucking pretty dope-ass ride. And I guess they started taking the car away, including taking the spark plugs out, taking the wheels off of it. So...

She said all trying to get him help did was cause more abuse, which wasn't great. Now, Michael, otherwise, pretty normal kid, everybody says here. He's an outdoor enthusiast, as I think everyone in this area was, especially pre-internet. It's either that or stare at the wall. It's a farm in the middle of nowhere. He went hunting a lot with his friend from school, a kid named Don Peterson. People said it was not unusual to see Michael carrying a rifle around

going down to Apple Creek and, you know, going to trap and hunt and all that kind of shit, which is extremely normal for a rural area like this. Uh, he did play football in school too, in ninth grade. Yeah. Not this year, but the year before ninth grade at, uh, Simmel junior high school in Bismarck, he played. And, um, a family acquaintance said that she'd heard from, I believe Maureen, that the family, the Nuga Bowers were having a hard time quote with the boy. Uh,

meaning Michael, not Ryan, because he'd gotten into the wrong crowd at school is the way they described it. And they described his girlfriend as kind of the wrong crowd, the wrong crowd, which is his girlfriend is Jackie Hieb, H-I-E-B, Hieb. It's probably not he, but I would think we'll go with Hieb. I got two options here. The alternative sucks. Hi, Jackie Hieb. Thought about this long and hard all night. Jackie Hieb.

16 years old she is. She's a junior, so a year older than him. Now, Michael apparently wanted to sell his 72 Monte Carlo, and that was a gift he got when he got his driver's license, and that was a part of it too. He goes, fine, if you're not going to let me have it, let me sell it. And they wouldn't let him sell it.

So there's all that. That car's only 20 years old. Not even. This was like 91. This was half. Yeah. That's like giving your kid a 90 or a 2000 right now. A 2005 Corolla is what you gave your kid.

You're like, here's your piece. That's amazing. Because, yeah, in the early, early 90s, those classic cars were considered old cars at that point. They weren't quite classic cars yet. You know what I mean? There were some that were. I mean, old Chevelles and Lakutas and shit like that. Sure, sure. I mean, that was muscle cars. Yeah. But I was dazed and confused. The movie, I was reading about that.

And Richard Linklater, the director, was saying how all the cars they used in that movie, and they're all hot shit early 70s muscle cars. They have the fucking Judge there, the badass cars. They were all for sale to be bought. When they got them? The Judge model there, the purple one, $6,000 he bought that for.

In 1993 when they filmed the movie, $6,000. So that car was worth nothing. And that thing was in mint fucking condition too. And it was $6,000 fucking dollars back then. Whereas now that's a $200,000 car. Well, yeah. I mean, you can... $150,000, definitely. Easy buck 50 for that thing. Yeah, it's crazy. That's crazy. I don't get into the expensive classic cars. No, no, no. I mean, there was a Camaro and a...

That Chevelle that was all primer, you'd probably get that for two grand today. Probably not, though. That's the thing. They're all expensive. No, that's still a $15,000 car. It's crazy. At least. And if it's a real SS, you'll get 30 grand for these things. Oh, at least. It's unbelievable. At the very least. So by late 1991, family is between all this shit with Michael. There's also problems with Maureen and Ronald as well. Ronald seems to be a big source of issue here.

Maureen borrowed $2,500 from her parents not to buy a classic car but instead to get an apartment in Bismarck

In late 91, she had gone and rented an apartment closer to her job. And the rumor and everybody said was she moved out because of Ronald's temper. That was the thing that made her move out. Now, she spent about half the money. She ended up moving back into the home at some point. So there's a reconciliation. She spent about half the money getting an apartment and all that kind of thing and kept the rest of it on her person forever.

Or in cash, so she didn't have to declare. She didn't want to put it in the bank because she didn't want to declare it as income, which she could have just anything under $10,000 as a gift. So she could have just done that. I think that was the same. Back then it was probably more. Who knows? I think it's been the same for decades, the $10,000 thing. I'm pretty sure. So she had this, and apparently money was very tight for them.

Her mother, Maureen's mother, said the family didn't have much money. So this was a lot of money to them to have that in there. So the move was not only so Maureen could be closer to her job at the University of Mary, and she took Michelle with her, the daughter, so she could attend century high school. So that's why they went to different schools.

schools the son and the daughter because they lived in different places different places yeah and the whole family that was back living together though by Christmas of 1991 that was fast yeah so late 91 this all happened within a couple months by Christmas everybody's reunited which sounds sweet that sounds great

Yeah, it's certainly family time. That's wonderful. Yeah, that's nice. And that's what you'd want. If your family's falling apart, you'd want, hey, we're all back together again by Christmas. Reconciliation for Christmas. I'll be home for Christmas. Well, that's shit. You can hear it playing.

It's fucking enough already. So good for them. Now, by January, shit's a disaster again. Already? Already, yeah. Within a month, things are not going well again. And it's a lot to do with Ronald and Michael fighting. There's only so much peace the newborn king can bring, James. That's the only thing, yeah. It's very true. You know what I mean? You can sing Ava Marie all you want, but it's not going to...

It's not going to help if fucking Santa Claus isn't coming to town. You know what I mean? Sometimes Santa Claus is drunk and pissed. Sometimes he's pissed and he runs over your grandma. You never know. With a reindeer. So Michael, in mid-January 92, attempts to run away.

He and Jackie try to run away together. Oh, shit. Yeah. Where do they go? Not far. That's the problem. They had like fucking I think we're alone now and a loop in their head. Yeah. We're going to do this. We're going to really do it. There we go. So they probably just had to watch Romeo and Juliet in English class. And they were like, they got ideas from it. They didn't see it as a cautionary tale. It's like 10th grade. They might wake you watch that shit. Right.

Did you watch the end of that? I didn't watch the end of that. That's all right. Let's go. Yeah, fuck. I don't know. I was absent that day. They broke it up over three days of class. I don't know. Didn't see the last part. I just heard forbidden love run away together. Let's do it. It looked like things were going to turn out well for them. Most movies like this, I feel like they're going to end up together. You know what I mean? I foresee a lot of kissing. A lot of kissing. It's going to have a happy ending.

So apparently the Neugebauer family was alerted to this fact when Michael didn't come home one night and was absent from school the next day. That'll do it. That's a good sign. Yeah. So Maureen asked her daughter, you know, Michael's older sister, and her friend, an 18-year-old or a senior in school, a boy, last name of Wilson, to help find him. Well, you go out and find your brother, basically. Yeah, of course.

So with a bunch of, it's not hard in a town of 72 people to find someone. You just ask a few people. Have you seen him? Yeah, he's over there. They literally asked around, figured out where he was. He and Jackie were at Prairie Public Bingo. He was playing. What 15-year-old runs away to play bingo, first of all? That's the weirdest shit I've ever heard. Sounds genius to me then.

No, because they found him. Yeah. It's not like he can hide there. Just because somebody saw him. But if they said, where do you think he is? The last thing they're going to say is check bingo. I think there's only like five things to check, though. So it's like they get to bingo eventually. You got to get the fuck out of here if you're going to run away. It's probably just laughs. He's sitting there. They won't notice me among all of the 90 year olds.

Shit. He's got a big fat marker in his hand. So he tried to take off from them, but this Wilson guy grabbed him and tackled him and held him against the pavement until police arrived. Oh my God. Like he's a fucking criminal. Yeah. Which is crazy. Now they said that they thought maybe he was headed. They were headed South for Texas where Jackie's father lived. That's all they could think. Yeah. Maybe. And, uh, that's, that's the only possibility. Uh,

So they try to straighten out their son. They transfer him to a very different school here. It's the one where his sister goes to, Century. But they said he threw a fit, didn't want to be there. So his parents relented and let him go back to Bismarck High School. And things get better for about a week.

Well, the problem is they get better because Michael just locks himself in his bedroom for a while and won't talk to anybody. When they drag his ass home, he won't come out of his room. He just locks himself in his room. He was grounded from using his car here and all of that. And they said the car was a big deal. The grandmother said he had that car too early. That's one thing. Too early? They gave him too nice a car too early. It's too much too soon. He couldn't handle it. You know what I mean?

thing's got a 400 in it what's in one of those it's gotta be like it's got is it the who knows I don't know what the fuck they would put in Monte Carlo it might be the same motor that goes in the Pontiac probably in the Firebird the 400 same fucking body basically yeah different lights it's gotta be a Camaro motor yeah you never know GM it's all the same shit they just it was just put in different places but now we're gonna call it this okay it's the same car what the fuck are you talking about

So Gladys Sherman, who is grandma to the kids and Maureen's mom, she characterized Michael as a good kid. He helped bring in the crops, like we said. She said he was always good. We used to sit down and talk and all that kind of thing. And she just said he's just such a nice kid. I don't understand what all the trouble's about here. So around January 20th or so, 22nd-ish, somewhere around there. Sure, sure, sure.

Michael spends time with a police youth counselor at the request of his father. His father was attempting to control his son's behavior. So he was basically sending him to talk to people who might be able to crack through the shell of Michael is what they were trying to do. So talks to him doesn't seem to help much, though, as we all talk about here. So then Sunday, January 26th, 1992 comes up here.

Michael goes over to his dad's parents' house who live in the main farmhouse there. And his grandmother is home and goes, I think his grandfather's dead. So it's just the grandmother's home at this point. And this is, like I said, Sunday night, January 26th, Sunday afternoon. He takes a rifle and some ammunition from her attic. He told her he's going to go shoot some birds.

So that's normal for guns, I guess. It's not what she doesn't even know, but it's normal for him to shoot birds and shoot hunt and stuff like that. So now the next morning, Monday morning, there's some Michael goes over to his parents to the grandparents house here. Hilda Nugabower, by the way, this is grandma Hilda Nugabower Hilda Nugabower hot hot.

A lot of porn stars call themselves Hilda Nugabower. Doesn't it just stiffen you right up, Jimmy? Rock hard right now. Tumescent. Hilda. Hilda Nugabower. So, um...

He went to this house next door in the morning and got another gun, a 35 caliber Remington automatic rifle. She describes as belonging to hit to Michael's great grandfather. So like, wow, that's an old rifle, old rifle. Yeah. And he didn't say anything. He just came in, grabbed the rifle and then left. She saw him get in the family car, which is an 81 Pontiac and fucking take off. So that's what she saw.

Now, where does he go? Well, he went to school. He went to Bismarck High School. Not to go to school, though. No? He went there to pick up his girlfriend.

Yep. But he's seen about 7 a.m. Monday morning in the Bismarck High School Breakfast Commons area where he talked with a few students and showed around a wad of money as well. What? Apparently had a wad of cash. And so he's carrying this with him. He picks up Jackie there while he's there. That's what he was doing was waiting for Jackie. He went to her locker and said, let's go. And she was like, all right.

all right, shit, school hasn't started yet. I guess fuck it. Right. Sure. Um, so he's driving a, a 1981 Pontiac with license plate BMR one, one six, uh,

And Jackie is where when she leaves here is seen wearing a ski jacket with blue and red and yellow squares, faded blue jeans, white high top sneakers. And Michael's wearing a black jacket with fluorescent green stripes. OK, 940 comes around. This is a couple hours after he's at the school.

And the Burley County Sheriff's Department is called at 940. Several units are dispatched to this farm. It's a cattle and grain farm they live on, by the way. Love it. They go and they find Hilda there. She's fine.

Doing fine. Yeah. But they've been called to the address. Now, her son, this is one of Ronald's brothers. Brothers. Merle Sherman. Or I'm sorry, that was a that's the different. That's the other mother. Sorry. That's her. They live there, too. Yeah, they live near here, too. So it's weird. Merle was the one that called authorities because Hilda had called Merle.

They're not related in-laws, but still had called Merle and said that something's wrong because Ryan hadn't gone to school today. What's going on? So, yeah. So Merle came over to the house, drove over there to the farm and went up to the trailer to see what was going on. And the door is locked and no one's answering.

But she hasn't seen the family come out. She's only seen Michael leave. So she's like, there's definitely people home. Ryan didn't go to school. So, yeah. And he said that this is what Merle said. Hilda said she heard noises and that's all we got out of her. She's just so worked up. She went bananas like I did. OK, now they talked to her and she said, well, last night I heard, quote, several gunshots and the sound of screaming.

Coming from the trailer. Yes. Now, she called the trailer, and Michael had answered the phone. This was late at night, 11 o'clock at night. Michael answered the phone, and she said he sounded nervous, and he told her that he had to shoot a dog is why. A wild dog got in the property, and he had to shoot a dog, and his sister was screaming because, you know, whatever. Because there's a dog. There's a dog, and it was trying to bite people, and it was a whole deal. So...

She said she looked out of her bathroom window. She saw someone walk from the trailer to the 1981 Pontiac Grand Prix that belonged to Michael's mother. So Michael took off. That's about 1130 at night. He took off. And then by the morning, he's back again saying he's going to go saying grabbing that other rifle and just taking off without saying anything and going to school and going to school. Exactly right.

So the police need to look in this trailer, obviously. But they don't have to go too far because when they go around back of the trailer to check the back door of the trailer, they find Maureen right there. She is face down in the snow covered in blood.

Oh, fuck. Outside. Face down in the snow. A throw rug, by the way, when they open the back door, there's a throw rug on top of bloodstained carpet near the door. So a rug has been placed over this bloodstain. And it's fresh bloodstains. Like, they're not old bloodstains. Brand new. Brand new. So they obviously are very careful going into this house because they don't know what the fuck is in this house now. They found a dead woman outside. She's got gunshot wounds in her.

Sure. So they find more bodies in here. They find the entire family, Ronald, Ryan, and Michelle, all in the house, all shot at least twice.

With a lever action rifle. Talking about eight, what is that, eight rounds? Well, they said about 11 rounds had been fired off in the house. 10 rounds are spoken for when they do it. And each body has two each in them. And grandma heard all that and then was like, yeah, dog. A dog. Yeah, we would do that. I mean, she is 81. So, I mean, she might be not all that with it or whatever, but. Yeah, yeah.

still screaming. I mean, come on, but I mean, she called and they, she said, Oh yeah, I had to shoot a dog. Sorry about that. Grandma didn't mean to fucking wake you guys up or whatever. So, you know, she was like, okay, so this is, this is a lot. Uh, they said that apparently Ronald was shot in the, in the neck, back and thigh. So he was shot three times, which counts for the extra bullets. Michelle was shot twice in the back, apparently while kneeling over her father. Uh,

So Ronald was shot first. Michelle went over to help her dad and was shot twice in the back. That's fucking Bruce. He's a 16 year old girl. Like why are you shooting her in the back twice? And, um, they, Maureen, they said it looked like she was, her body was moved by the way. And Ryan was also found in his room shot as well. Twice. Uh,

Now, are all the phones were ripped off the wall and unplugged is the other thing in the house. Yes. After that, which probably he didn't realize that till grandma called and went, oh shit, rip these fucking phones out of here. So,

It's wild. So the autopsy shows that Michelle lived after being shot, and then she was shot again outside the home. Oh, she was crawling out. She was trying to get out, and he went after her. But it's unclear, they said, whether she's leaving or arriving, but we know she was leaving. She was trying to get out. Yeah, because she had just slept all night at home. She was shot once in the body and once in the back of the head outside. Mm.

Wow. Mr. Neubauer was shot. Nuka Bauer was shot in the back of the head. And so was Ryan twice in the back of the head for a 12 year old. That's brutal. 11 shells recovered. The bullets were found in the bodies or in the mobile home's interior. So he only missed once.

Or twice, probably, out of that. It's probably not so hard with a rifle indoors. In a trailer. There's not a lot of room to spread out. Plus, he shoots birds. He's a good shot, probably. You know what I mean? So they discover this, and this is about 10 a.m. on January 27th.

So they said the bodies removed from where they were shot. Some of them were shot at point blank range. At least the second shot was point blank. Put them down, walked over, finished them off. Golly. You know, like a mob hit. Yeah. Like fucking Chris and Snoop taught Mike to do on the fucking wire. You know what I'm saying? That, man. That is brutal. All had multiple wounds. Missing from the house is the family car, the Pontiac, a .35 caliber Remington automatic rifle from...

Ronald's collection and twelve hundred dollars from Maureen's purse and cash. Twelve hundred bucks. Twelve hundred, which is a lot of cash to be flashing around a breakfast commons area at a high school. Yes, it is. Now, officers also found in Michael's room letters from Jackie to Michael that revealed an ongoing plan to leave the state with cash and a car.

How fucking far? Bonnie and Clyde, natural born killers. We're going now on twelve hundred dollars. Twelve hundred. But when you're when you're fucking fifteen, twelve hundred dollars seems like the world because you could live on that for a week. So you think that's forever.

There's no future when you're 15. Yeah. It's all present. That'll get us to Sunday. Dude, 15 is the age of present. That's what it is, dude. There is no future. Yeah. I mean, fuck. One of the neighbors who, when the cops showed up, was, quote, loading silage. What is that? Putting shit in a silo, maybe. I have no idea. With his son said that, quote, we didn't hear anything. Didn't hear a thing. They're close by neighbor. They didn't hear shit. Yeah.

Now, they said the weapon used in the murders is believed to be a high-powered .32 caliber rifle that's missing from Ronald's extensive gun collection.

Hey everybody, just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit about Chime. Oh, Chime.com! Absolutely, and this is the thing, we've all got to get serious about something, and finances are the thing you should definitely be serious about. It's time to make some money moves. At some point in your adult life, you go, I've got to get serious about this.

this, you can and you can take control of your finances by using a Chime checking account with features like no maintenance fees, fee-free overdraft up to $200. We've all been there where we've overdrafted and went, oh my God.

Now, not only did I do now, now that I not only have the money to pay for that, now I owe more money with this fees now. And now they got me a penalty. None of that stuff here. You can do that or you can get paid up to two days early with direct deposit as well. They got you covered and you can learn more at chime.com slash smalltownmurder.com.

We've been there. Chime helps you make progress with the fee-free overdraft up to $200. Your next deposit is applied to your balance. So very easy stuff. Make your fall finances a little greener by working toward your financial goals with Chime. Open your account in two minutes at Chime.com slash SmallTownMurder. That's Chime.com slash SmallTownMurder. Chime feels like progress.

I would like to tell you guys a story here that's going to save you some money. You know what I mean? I'm telling you, I had been paying for a subscription for approximately four and a half years.

which is way too long to pay for something I forgot I even had and did not want or need anymore. My fault. Me. I didn't pay attention and I didn't know what to do about it because I didn't even know it was there. Then I got Rocket Money. Oh. Oh. All fixed. I'm telling you right now. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that funds

fines and cancels your unwanted subscriptions. They did that for me. They monitor your spending and helps you lower your bills so that you can grow your savings. They'll even try to negotiate lower bills for you by up to 20%, which is, no one wants to wait on hold and argue with a customer service representative over your bill. All you have to do is submit a picture of your bill, rocket money, they'll deal with all that.

for you. Take care of it. Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when using all of the app's features. Stop wasting money on things you don't use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to rocketmoney.com slash smalltownmurder. That's rocketmoney.com slash smalltownmurder. rocketmoney.com slash smalltownmurder. Now back to the show.

Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about Quince. Fall is here. Winter's almost here. Time to flip that wardrobe over. You know what I'm saying? You're going to trade in the flip-flops. You're going to need some sweaters now. Time to get some flannel. Get some jacket, get some flannel, some long pants, and I'm excited about that anyway. I love it. So we're going to upgrade to some nice stuff like a cozy cashmere sweater, maybe a leather jacket. That's actually what I bought.

from Quince. I found a very cool like distressed leather jacket that's really cool. It looks like it's like old school-y kind of but like new design. I really like it a lot. It's awesome. And you're going to like Quince too. Quince offers affordable high quality essentials for any wardrobe that includes seasonal must-haves like a Mongolian cashmere sweater from $60. That's a bargain.

Comfortable pants for any occasion, like Jimmy's linen pants that he loves here. Yes. Upgrade your wardrobe with pieces made to last with Quince. Go to quince.com slash smalltownmurder for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. That's q-u-i-n-c-e dot com slash smalltownmurder to get free shipping and 365-day returns. quince.com slash smalltownmurder. Now back to the show.

Because he's been collecting guns and hand-me-down guns. Guns are like kind of heirlooms to these people, too. They hunt their farm people. Yeah. You know. It's a common thing. Yeah. So they say, Michael, they're definitely looking for him here because he's not among the bodies. Right. He is 5'8", 130 pounds, a little tiny, skinny shit. No kidding. I mean, that's a tiny little 15-year-old. He has blue eyes, blonde hair, thought to be driving the 81 Pontiac Grand Prix two-door V8.

The state's attorney is already involved and said her office is pursuing several leads searching across the state and that an APB was put out over several states. And she said, I don't know where he is or who he may or may not be with. Now, grandma definitely says he's armed because he came over and got the 35 caliber rifle that used to belong to, you know, great grandpa there.

She said that Michael has not contacted the family, but she speculates. They said, do you know anywhere they could possibly be going? Right. And Grandma says that he and his girlfriend are probably headed south for Texas where her father Orville lives down there. He said, I know they are. He always talked about going to someplace like Cancun. That's Mexico. He saw like Spring Break on MTV and was like, all right.

I'm going to live there forever and just wait until Pauly Shore shows up every fucking year. Pauly Shore and Dan Cortez make their appearance. I'll be here.

Yeah. What's her name? What's her name? Daisy Fuentes pops up. And downtown Judy Brown. Julie? Yeah, Julie. Judy, right? Julie Brown? Julie, yeah. Downtown Julie Brown. And if he ever had a lot of money, he was going to live there because he took a lot of money. $1,200 is not enough to relocate to another country. No. For two people.

She said, I don't know what happened at home because they were getting along good. He wanted to get away, and I don't know why. Something happened, something like that. He was a good kid. He was smart, good in school. They said, do you know, I have any idea why he might have slaughtered his whole family? And she said, yeah.

Got me. T-Tops Grand Prix is pretty fucking rad. 81 Grand Prix is not a good car. No. That's a bad car. It's an ugly car. Why didn't he take the fucking, why didn't he take the Monte Carlo? He'd have to put the wheels back on it. Oh, that's right. Get it off the cinder blocks. It's a lot going on.

Now, they're warning, by the way, the state's attorney, Patricia Burke, is warning that he's very dangerous and to look out for him. Yeah. She said there's every indication that this individual is very dangerous and may not hesitate to kill again. There are aspects of the autopsy and physical evidence evidence that indicate that we're not dealing with the average flash in the pan murder. This is a cold and calculated act.

She said he was familiar with the back roads and could elude a nationwide police search that law enforcement were doing at this point. She warned the public to not approach Nuga Bauer, but immediately go to police. She described him as armed and dangerous. They said, do you think he's dangerous? And she said, if you've possibly killed four people, what's one more?

When you've probably killed four people. Possibly. They also think Jackie might be a hostage, is what they're saying. Yeah. He might have taken her as a hostage rather than a partner in crime Bonnie and Clyde situation. So they said that she had called, apparently, the day after, because they're looking the next day, she called a friend of hers.

saying she just learned about the killings and was scared to death. Oh, boy. She said she didn't know about it. Her mother said, I'm sorry, this is a friend of her mother, said Jackie called a girlfriend Tuesday and said they were in Bismarck. She couldn't talk and she was scared to death and that she had to hang up. That's all they knew.

Now, we don't know if that's just a plant. She called someone to say we're in Bismarck when we're not in Bismarck just so they look for them in Bismarck or if she's really in Bismarck and scared. We have no idea. No fucking idea. So they said again, the prosecutor said we're dealing with a young man who we allege has murdered four members of his family. So anything's possible here. They said Jackie does not face charges. So she needs there's no evidence that she can.

help, you know, did any of the murdering. So they just want to talk. They just want to get her back. They said they found letters from them going back and forth. And so they had an ongoing plan to obtain money and take a vehicle and leave the state.

So they're given two different things. She's a hostage and a victim, but at the same time, they have plenty of proof that they've been planning something along these lines. Maybe without the murder. There's no mention of killing anyone to get the money. Sure. It's just get money. Now, in a Wisconsin motel room, Jackie says she didn't know about the murders until they reached a motel room in Wisconsin. Oh, is that right? Which is the opposite direction of Bismarck, so that makes me think she called her friend to plan a false lead. Okay. Yeah.

And she said that he told her he pinned her to the bed and she said, am I and I'm next. And he said, yes, he was going to kill her, too. So that's where they're at on the run. OK, now a school friend of his here said that, quote, he was angry, but he never made any threats. He never said anything violent or about doing anything like shooting or anything like that.

So this is his hunting buddy, Don Peterson, said he never led me to suspect he was unhappy at home. He'd share other things, but he didn't say he didn't say anything about this. No, I talked to him yesterday around 2 p.m. That would be the Sunday that he actually did the killings that night and everything was fine. He didn't sound agitated. And one of the neighbors, the Salters, is the name of farmers named the Salters really is a ironic name.

Nothing will grow, everybody. Having a tough season. Tough season. Damn it. They live about a quarter mile south of the Neugebauer family. They said, but we weren't really close to Ron, though real close to his folks. They're good people. I know that. So that means these people are 80 that they talk to. So there are sightings of him, though.

Sightings of both of them at a Kmart store in Billings, Montana, about 4 p.m. the Wednesday after the murders. Getting a such puppy. Obviously. Got to go get those old... Remember those old sandwiches they had? Those...

cellophane wrapped fucking sandwiches. Getting one of those. Oh, yeah. That's some trash shit, but I love that sandwich, man. That was awesome. That sandwich was so good. They used to have the snack bar and then the jewelry counter, and the line of people for the snack bar would wrap around the jewelry counter. That poor bastard working at the jewelry counter had nobody buying anything. These people can't buy cheap shit jewelry. Come on. But they'd have that. I'm looking for just...

They'd have that like in the back, like the little cafe thing. But then they'd have like a fucking, the slushy stand would be like in the middle of the store with like popcorn and slushies and shit. That was, they really had it going on there. 80s Kmart was the shit. That was good stuff. Right next to the fitting rooms with steel underwear. Steel everything.

So then somebody reported them heading west on Interstate 90. Montana law enforcement agencies also had unconfirmed reports that he was seen in Billings at a thrift store trying to cash and also trying to cash a check at a gas station near the interstate. Oh.

But then the Great Falls Montana Tribune reported that a boy and a girl matching their descriptions were seen Tuesday afternoon in a Great Falls thrift store, and their behavior was described as guarded. Oh. I don't know what that even means. Suspicious? I guess. Guarded. Not wanting to talk to you, probably. Likely, yeah. I probably seem guarded, too, in a lot of places where I don't want to talk to the people.

So the one of the cops here, the sheriff said we did through the night receive about four other calls at the 911 center about possible sightings. And again, those calls were checked out and again were unfounded.

So they said it's not unusual or undesirable to get reports. So please, if you see if you think you see him call up, it doesn't it doesn't derail the whole investigation to send one guy out to a fucking gas station, ask a question. So go ahead and do it. They said there have been unverified sightings, but there's really no substance that we can verify. Now, there's a memorial service for his family. Obviously, I would assume the whole town would show up.

Probably. There's only 72 people. You should probably be able to draw that, I would hope. I just said draw that like they're comics. Jesus Christ. But true. If you can't draw that. What are you drawing? What are you drawing at your funeral? That's not the right terminology, I don't think. Is it not? For us it is because we're asshole comedians. But for the rest of the people, they're going, draw? That's how we talk.

So they said tons of people showed up, dozens of schoolmates from the children. They held the services in Bismarck because I don't know where there is to hold them in fucking Monacan. So they had four closed caskets. Jesus, that's a lot of caskets, man. And photographs and all that kind of thing. They had a handwritten note.

The note from the child, from this kid to a classmate to Ryan, describes Ryan as a good friend and said the two hardest things to do will be to go on and to say goodbye. The note gives Ryan a sports medal. It's attached to the note because they had apparently played on the same sports team and Ryan had lost his medal from the team. Couldn't find it. So this guy was giving him his medal to be buried with. So, yeah.

Now the families are trying to get the teens to turn themselves in because it's days are going by. Yeah. It's like the end of the week now. Like, where could the fuck these two kids be? Twelve hundred dollars is going to run out quick. Yeah. They're driving a car that we know the license plate of. Like, how are we not finding these fucking people? They're driving a shit car that we know. It's going to break down.

Yes, and he looks like a kid. He doesn't look like a 20. He looks like, hey, why is that child driving that car? He's 5'8", 130 pounds, blonde, mullet like a motherfucker, by the way. Oh, boy. Mullet, not long hair, short on top, shaved on sides, fucking mullet popping, Joe Dirt style. He is hardcore. So...

Anyway, the family publishes a letter to them. It's an appeal from both families, from Jackie's family and from the Nuga Bauer clan here. Just begging them. To gave it to the Associated Press to distribute. And it says, quote, Please stop.

Whatever happened in your home in Monacan, whatever you've done, please stop now. Don't make it any worse. Don't bring any more tragedy into the lives of people who love you. No one knows what terrible pressures you may have been under, but your life is not over. Jackie's life is not over. Things change with time. People change. We want to help and we can. Don't try to drive home.

For yours and everyone else's safety, stop now and talk to a police officer. Call any of us or this newspaper. Please, Michael. And then it said the Nugabower family, Ivan and Gladys Sherman, Eileen Heinel and Larry Heinel, who are Jackie's mother and stepfather. So they said that they start to get affidavits from people now.

they're trying to figure out, piece together what happened. So they have different affidavits of people talking about the family. And they said that they had a few different people said that Michael had quote previously commented to individuals that he should kill his father and or his family. What the fuck, Mike? So,

February 8th, 1992. It's been a while. It sure has. The 27th he took off. He made it stretch, man. That is wild. They are at the Rhodes Motel, R-O-A, R-H-O-A-D-S, Rhodes Motel, in Sarasota, Florida. Wow. Let's go there. They got all the way down there. Now, they received, the FBI received information that they...

might be in central Florida somewhere. So they have police forces looking for their car specifically in central Florida. They give like a, all the police forces in central Florida get an alert to look for this car. So, um, they get as few tips that they're, that they were headed East and possibly headed to Florida. So Robert Smith, who's a Sarasota police Sergeant, not the guy who, uh, from the band, different guy, uh,

Robert Smith. He spotted a 1981 white Pontiac with North Dakota license plates, which probably sticks out like a sore thumb in fucking Sarasota, Florida. Really? North Dakota plate sticks out no matter where you are. Even in North Dakota, you're like, wow, there's other people here? Holy shit. I thought I was alone. You got one too? I was wondering why my license plate said three on it.

It must have been somebody else here. Look at you with a six. Holy shit, there's more of us. Thank you. Let's go find them together. This police sergeant spots the car at the Rhodes Motel at about 1.30 a.m., okay? Yeah.

middle of the night. So after police spotted the car, they called the manager of the motel. This guy's my favorite person in this whole story. His last name is Radousakis. R-O-D-O-U-S-S-A-K-I-S. Two S's? It's Greek, obviously. We had trouble with a Greek name earlier this week with Crime and Sports. We're going to

So they called him and they said, look, there's a car outside. Do you see that car? He said, yes. They said, can you give us the description of the people who... Gave him the car. Yeah. So basically, did they register? And he said, yes, the people in the car registered. So they said, okay. Gave them the descriptions. Two blonde kids. Yep. The SWAT team is sent at this point. Oh, shit. Now, this motel manager who I fucking love because he's just hilarious...

He's so like, this is none of my business. I'm just an observer. Like he's like he's watching it on TV and it's hilarious. OK, he said he met Jackie the day before Rodoska, Rodasakis late Friday afternoon when she came into the motel's office and they were they were in the Pontiac before that.

This guy said that Jackie's hair was wet and she was shivering, even though it was over 70 degrees outside. Huh? She told him the manager that she and her little brother, uh,

who've been traveling together from North Dakota, had been at the beach earlier that day. So they were just wet and cold. Freezing. Freezing. So it's the Gulf Coast in central Florida here. And the motel is about seven miles from the ocean. So it's inland a little bit here. So this guy, Manny Rodasakis here, he said that she signed for the room. She said that Nuga Bauer, the blonde kid, was her brother.

She used a correct address filling out the registration card. Really? But didn't use her correct name. She signed her name off by Deb Priste, P-R-I-S-T-E, which is probably somebody from school or something. Deb. Deb. Hi, I'm Deb. Yeah. The room was $32.75, and she paid for it with a $50 bill. Yeah. And she told him that they wanted a double bed. Oh, damn. Which is fun as shit.

She said, quote, he's my brother. We sleep together all the time. Okay. Which he goes, fucking North Dakota. And he's shaking his head. Goddamn weirdos up there. So he said he believed her because they looked alike. They're both blonde. I mean, it's just you would look at them. Yeah, they could be brother and sister. Why not? And also because she said it. And she said it. You don't know these fucking people. And he said that he normally asks for identification from young people trying to check in. But he thought she was about 19 or 20.

And she gave me cash. Yeah. And he said, I feel kind of strange because nine out of 10 people are, I'll check their IDs, but she just seems so wholesome. Her and her little brother were on the road together and, you know, just trying to help the kids out. She said, yeah, he signed it. Uh, so she signed the form there. He said she was a sweet kid. I gave her one of the better rooms because I liked her right away.

Her and her brother. He said, they just look like two normal kids. I had no reason to doubt anything they said. Wow. Which is why you ask for ID to begin with because, you know, you never know. After checking in, Michael and Jackie went swimming at the outdoor pool. Oh, that's nice. That's nice. They're going to get that all in there. He said they play. This is the manager said they played around in the water just like kids. They look like just a couple of blonde kids from the Midwest.

They later asked him where they should go to eat around here, and they returned to the motel shortly afterward. They ended up getting McDonald's because a receipt found later was for two hamburgers and a cheeseburger. They found a McDonald's bag, two empty Coca-Cola cans, and an empty pack of Marlboro Lights are also in there. Oh, they're smoking, too. Of course they are smoking. He's got a mullet, Jimmy. The Marlboro Lights come with that haircut.

When they shave up those sides, they give you a pack of Marlboro Lights and send you on your way. That's how it works. Get on out there and do something. Holy shit. So he said that he saw Nuga Bauer come out of the room at about 9.30 p.m. to get some ice. And he said, and that's the last I saw of him. He did a walking tour of the motel a half hour later, and the room was dark. He figured they went to sleep. He said that...

This manager said he's seen death and dealt with it a lot while he served in Vietnam for multiple tours. Oh, my God. He said, but kids, for Christ's sake, blonde, blue-eyed, beautiful kids, it freaked me out. It just doesn't make any sense. The world is on its axis, man. This is off its axis. It's all fucked up. Yeah, I can see some Vietnamese children, but not blonde hair, blue eyes. They're just wholesome. It's one thing to burn down a village, but these kids are blonde. I don't get it.

So the raid comes up here. The SWAT team shows up and the manager said they said the boy may or may not have been involved in a murder. And that's all they told me.

Now, this guy was woken up when the police called and wanted to see the room registration for this. And this guy was at another location. He had to arrive to the motel. The motel consists of three separate buildings, and police evacuated six people from the building where Jackie and Michael were staying. That building has eight rooms. The police also block off all the streets around it. They make a big deal out of this.

And the manager puts it this way. This is amazing. In the meantime, a big truck pulls up and all these ninja guys get out. Fucking ninja guys are in. This guy is awesome. Yeah. I want to hear him describe everything.

ninja guys that said SWAT on their chest they were the SWAT ninja guys get out throwing fucking stars at the door I was like hey flashbangs and stars and smoke oh man but they're wearing hoods carrying you know their fucking rifles and laser sights and all that kind of shit he this guy estimated there was 30 police officers heading up to the room oh they weren't kidding

SWAT team officers hide behind bushes, position themselves all around the door to the room. FBI agents surround the motel from the other sides. They have an ambulance parked nearby in case there's a shootout. So they discuss how they're going to do this. And this is the fucking funniest part. There's 30 plus armed like federal fucking and state people here, including like the SWAT team, like a tactical assault team. Yeah. And they're like, what do we do?

They said, well, maybe we'll try to break down the door or maybe we'll do this. Because, by the way, these rooms are so wonderful, they don't even have a phone in the room. There's no phone. Okay. So they said, maybe we'll do this. Maybe we'll fucking throw a rock through the window and throw a cell phone into the room and we can talk to him that way.

Then finally someone said, why don't we just knock and see what happens? Good idea. Let's just try that. Let's take a chance. Let's just knock. They might just open the door and let us in. We might be doing all this for nothing. Throw a rock through the window. Throw a cell phone in. What if they don't have any? What if that scares the shit out of them? That's what I mean. They don't want to pick up. Well, I guess then they would, yeah, call. I don't know. What the fuck? And I think that's what somebody said. Goes, what?

And then also, if you kick down a door, if someone has a gun, that's the time to use it. When someone kicks your fucking door in. Yeah. You know? That's when you would be reaching for it. So they're probably... It's like on the wire. Again, the wire reference. But when they go to bust...

fucking Avon at the one point when he's at like his kind of home, like his base with all the guns when they were getting ready for war. And the guy's got a battering ram and McNulty's like, whoa, they're warring with a drug crew. You batter the fucking door and they're going to open fire on us all. Why don't we try knocking? Let's knock. They knocked and opened the door and that was that much easier. So anyway, they knock on the door. They said they knocked on the door. They, the police saw the curtains move inside, but no one answered the door. They tried to peek out of the curtains. Like maybe it's nothing.

So the police go to the door and they knock and they this the manager heard Jackie yell, what's going on? We didn't do anything. What do you want? And they're the whole time. They're saying, Michael, new Nuga Bauer, get out here. We know you're in there, all that kind of shit. So the manager of the motel said they knew the kid had a gun. They didn't know whether he was going to come out shooting. He said, I heard a boom. And then Nuga Bauer, we know you're in there. Come out.

That's what Jackie said. She heard from inside. The manager said the girl was yelling. What do you want? What's going on? And police were at that point. While this is going on in the front door, the FBI agents out back noticed someone trying to jump out of the back window of the place.

Who's that? It's Michael trying to escape. And the manager said he heard them, quote, yell at him. Don't even think about it. Yeah. Because he had his gun on him, too. So he dropped the gun.

I suppose. Or no, he didn't drop the gun because he didn't have a gun. We find out. Oh, OK. At that point, the motel room's door came open and Michael walked back in through the motel room, walked out the front door. Police took him to the ground, handcuffed him. The manager said the girl was yelling, don't hurt him. What have we done? That kind of thing. I feel sorry for her. I believed her. This guy's just a sucker. We know for a fact now. And he's still like, I believe her. I don't know what it is. I still believe her. I think he just liked her.

I think he thought she was a piece of ass or something. I don't know what it was. Maybe he's an older guy reminded him of his daughter. I don't fucking know. But the manager said that, by the way, the kids were taken away in separate vehicles. The manager said he found a receipt in the room for a deck of playing cards they bought Friday night. And he said, I just can't imagine if I'd done murder on my family. Like I'm playing cards. This is crazy.

But he said the police, though, he was very impressed with the whole operation. He said this guy just ate popcorn watching this movie.

Just getting his Kmart icy. You did it. This is wild. Yeah. So he said that they were, quote, very efficient and very nice to Nuga Bauger and Jackie once they were captured. So they were very professional. Police searched the room, and the couple's clothes were taken as well as one of the bed sheets. A police spokesman said no weapons were found in the room. Okay.

All right. The car was impounded, obviously. They're going to search the car looking for a 22 caliber handgun, 32 caliber rifle, a 31 caliber rifle and a 12 gauge shotgun, which are all missing from the house. They said they also seek documents, including travel, indicating travel routes, motel receipts, restaurant receipts, ammunition, clothing and many items belonging to the murder victims. The search did not find any of that stuff, by the way. No, nothing. Where the hell is it?

They did find an envelope with the name Michelle written on it. They also found a broken scissor handle, a Wisconsin road map, and a tan lockbox containing jewelry belonging to his mother and sister. So he took that to sell along the way here.

So Michael is going to be taken to a juvenile facility here for now. He's not made any statements to police right away. He's arrested with a federal warrant for unlawful flight to avoid prosecution for murder. Jackie, on the other hand, is at the YMCA shelter in Sarasota. They send her to her mother. Eileen said that Jackie was homesick and wanted to come home soon. This woman, her mom said, but we know she's OK.

And she said that she Jackie said she was healthy and, you know, everything was fine. So Jackie legally was classified as a runaway. Oh, not a fucking fugitive from the from the law. So she's classified as a runaway and is being held on that basis. There's no criminal charges pending against Jackie. She's considered a witness at this point at this point now.

Jackie's mom said she expects her daughter to be home late Monday. This is like a Saturday. They're talking about this, but didn't know how she would be returned. And she said the mother said it's more than likely that her daughter didn't know anything about these murders, obviously. Right.

She said friends and family know that she would not have gotten in that car with Nuga Bauer if she had known she had nothing along. She was it was just a normal day for Jackie. That was not planned. And he did. He just showed up at school and was like, let's go.

Let's get out. Let's get out. Now, Larry, who is Jackie's stepfather, told the Tampa Tribune that Jackie had stayed overnight with a friend the Sunday night the murders took place. He said that she had been at the friend's home all night and that he's confident that she had no role in the killings. So and then this is Michael's grandmother told the same paper that her grandson always wanted to go to the Cayman Islands in the Caribbean.

And that he went where he said he was going to go, and considering that his capture was in Florida, quote, he was just one step away. That's a pretty big step, though, entering a foreign country is a much different step. He thought he was going to get there with 1,200. Sure, you might get there, but then what? Then what are you going to do? You're 15. You look like a child. Yeah. So, yeah.

Wow, that is fucking insanity. Hilda, by the way, here is living with a family in Bismarck and will get an apartment this month. She wants off the farm. She doesn't want to be there where her son and his family were killed next door. She was the last person to see Michael, obviously. His other grandmother told the Bismarck Tribune that Michael had been intrigued by Cancun as well.

And she said, I don't know. We don't know why this happened. He was a real good kid, a smart boy who worked hard on the farm. That's what hurt me. He's only 15. This is such a terrible waste. Now, Jackie said when they talked to Jackie, she said his dad was abusing his brother fighting all day. Because they're like, why did he do this? Because he's not talking at this moment. So they said, did he tell you why? Jackie said, I tried calling ring, ring, ring. At that moment, I knew something wasn't right.

So she tried calling Michael apparently and nobody answered. She said he wasn't thinking. He didn't realize what he was doing. Anything moving, he was not thinking. He snapped. He just shot whatever was moving. The phones had been ripped off the wall. And Jackie said she had no idea what had happened. She said the first night I didn't sleep at all. I didn't sleep all night. I could feel it.

you know, something was going on. Uh, they said, what if you had gone there? You know, what if you, cause they said, she said, what if she had gone to the farm and intervene? Cause she knew something was wrong. And they asked her, what if you had gone there? And she said, I probably wouldn't be here right now. He probably would have killed me too. So, um, she says, she says the look in his eyes, uh, we'll never forget it. There was nothing there when he said, let's go, let's get out of here. Just was like real weird here. So, um,

That day here, apparently the day following the murders, we'll talk about that. Michael drove around in his mother's car because the murders happened at 1130 at night. He came back early morning to get the rifle, get the money and take off. He drove around his mother's car and his mother's car all night from midnight on, just all night till the morning. Wow. That's when he went to Bismarck and he went and found Jackie. He said he walked up to my locker and said, we're running away. And I said, OK, fine.

Didn't take much to prompt her here. She said, I was never scared of him. So she just got in the car. She said, I knew something had happened. He was beat up. A typical night, always chaos. So she just figured his dad beat him up again.

She didn't even ask what's wrong with your eye or anything like that. She thought they were running away. And she said once they got to a motel room, it changed in Wisconsin. She said, we got up to the hotel and he is frantic. And he said he killed his family and he threw me on the bed and got on top of me. And I asked, am I next? And he said, you read my mind. She said, in fact, after he killed his family, he went to my house because he was going to kill me, too.

Is that right? But then by 7 a.m. he changed his mind and said, no, I need somebody to run away with. Come with me. But he was going to go, why would he kill Jackie? Because his dad beats him up. That doesn't make any sense at all whatsoever. But I guess he was just wiping out everybody he knew. He didn't even think to kill grandma, though.

Or he's just just joshing, you know? Yes. Who the fuck knows? So or maybe he's trying to scare her so she doesn't try to call the cops possibly or run away. Yeah. She said after everything that happened, it was all such a whirlwind. I was thrown into the psych ward for months, then a group home and then foster care. Jackie ended up. She said she's going to try to move on from the whole thing, she said, though. But there were a couple of times where I contemplated taking my life.

I felt like I had this icky secret, the abuse all the time. Knowing the truth of what happened and wishing I could have fixed it, I had a lot of blame on myself, a lot of different emotions. Every day that I battled, not a day I don't wake up. Every day that I battled, not a day I don't wake up and think about the family. Listen, you're 16. There's only so much you can do.

You can't stop that from happening. You can try to tell the correct people, which is what you did, and then you have to hope that the adults take over responsibly and do the thing you need them to do because you're 16. You don't have any recourse in this. So that's fucking horrible. She doesn't need to feel guilty for that, though. It's not her fault at all. She's the only fucking one who tried. Right. She's the only person in this whole story who shouldn't feel guilty about that anyway. So...

Why? What the fuck happened? What's going on? Apparently, Michael had an argument with his father that night about chores. And Michael tried to leave and his father wouldn't let him leave. So he said he got a gun from his grandmother's house and shot his father in the living room. That's how it went. Wouldn't let him leave. Well, he said, quote, I was tired of it. He was just tired of it all. He said the argument with his father was about whether Michael was doing his work around the house and on the farm.

And he just didn't want to deal with his dad anymore because he knew it was going to escalate to abuse. He said that he does not remember shooting his mother, sister or brother. So I remember the first shot with my dad. That was on purpose. I fucking meant that shit. I don't remember anything else. I don't even remember the other two shots into my dad. Never mind everybody else.

He said that he was deathly afraid from getting another beating from his father. And he said after that first shot, his memory is like if you're blackout drunk, basically. It's just a flash here, a flash there, but nothing of the killing. Stills. Yep.

So it ended apparently. Yeah, that's it was a fight. His grandmother's house was only 50 yards away. So he walked 50 yards, got the rifle, got the ammunition, came back to the mobile home and was in the living room when his father came out of the bedroom. I guess Ronald asked him, said, what the hell is going on? Because he was in the living room with a rifle. And that's when he shot his father.

And the prosecutor said basically he indicated it was a snap thing. It took 10 minutes or so just to go get the gun, though. So they're like, it's not a snap thing if you had to go get the gun 50 yards there, 50 yards back. It's time to cool off is what she's saying, basically. So is there already...

you know, trying to get the charges up. So, um, Ryan and Michelle were in their bedrooms at the time. Michelle was killed in the hallway to the master bedroom. Ryan was killed in his own bedroom where he was cowering and hiding, hiding gunshots. I heard the noise. Yeah. Maureen had been outside, um, and was killed outside too. Um,

So, fuck, man. I guess he then got the other gun from his grandmother's house, got some of his personal belongings from his room. When he came home with the gun from his grandmother's house to shoot everybody, first he went to his room to get some shit. So he was planning on, he was going to leave right then. He had that. And so his father said, he said, what the hell is going on here? And his father said, if you got a gun, I'm going to get one too, is what he said.

He said, that's why he shot him. We're going to draw down. He said, I just wanted out. I couldn't get out. He turned and I shot. He said his father fell straight down, just right to the ground. He said, and everything was, quote, like looking into a tunnel instantly. He said that his sister appeared and he shot her almost on reflex. So that he remembers. It was like a reflex. He just was like, boom. Oh, shit. You're here, too.

His mother grabbed him and he said the gun went off again. When his mother grabbed him, he chased his mother outside and shot her, then came back in the house. Then he reloaded the gun and shot his brother twice. So he had time to stop and reload. He did not have to shoot his brother at all. He could have just taken the fuck off.

Everybody knows you did it, bro. It's not like you're killing the witnesses. Leave your 12-year-old brother alone. He has nothing to do with this. I mean, that way we'll get you the death penalty right there. That's pretty meditative as it gets. You put the bullet in. It's fucking hard. It's reloaded, man. So he then packs some clothes and left in his mother's car.

And that's fucking wild. So the family does not want Michael to inherit his father's estate. No, he can't. Because they're saying at this point he's in line to do that. So he's the only one left. So they said they are using the 1978 Josephson family murder in Hazen, North Dakota, as legal precedent to have Michael barred from the family's inheritance. Okay.

In that case, which sounds familiar, I don't know if we covered this or not, Russell and Robin Josephson were shot to death in their beds by their 13-year-old adoptive son, Michael. I think we did do this. A Michael also? A Michael again. He served – that was just the most common name in the 70s though. It was very common. He served two years at the State Industrial School after being adjudicated as a delinquent in the shootings. They tried him as a juvenile. Unbelievable.

Two years later, the North Dakota Supreme Court ruled that the younger Josephson had committed a felony and was not entitled to an inheritance from his parents' estate. Okay.

So they start the same thing here. The probate action was started naming Bob Nugent Bauer, Nuga Bauer of Menachem, who is one of Ronald's brothers, as his personal representatives. And in the petition there to the court, they're asking to be named personal representative. This guy is Nuga Bauer says he has reason to believe Michael Nuga Bauer may not be entitled to inherit anything from the decedents. Right.

So the one lawyer says that if he's found guilty of the killings, he should be disinherited, just as the Josephson boy was. State probate laws say anyone who has feloniously caused the death of another may not share in any inheritance, which makes all the sense in the world. Yeah. That way you can't kill someone for money. Right. Exactly. Exactly.

I mean, you'd be sitting in prison, but you'd still have the best commissary going. You know, like, that's crazy. In the Josephson case, an attorney for Michaels said that because he had not been since he had been adjudicated in juvenile court, he had not technically been convicted of a felony. And the Supreme Court disagrees with that. So that's what they're trying to fight. Meanwhile, the prosecutor doesn't know if anyone will collect the two thousand dollar cash reward for the tip that led to Michaels capture.

There are. Let's give it to that fellow down there at the. There's let's just give it to Manny, the motel manager, just because he's fun. He's fun. Yeah. But he killed four people. Then possibly they didn't know. They thought then possibly kidnapped a 16 year old girl is holding her hostage around the country. And they went, what, two grand you think is enough? Probably just two grand. Let's not go crazy.

We started with $150 and nobody said nothing, so we upped it to $2,000. I don't know. We'll see what happens. Like, that's not really all hands on deck with $2,000. The prosecutor said, I'm not aware of anyone putting in a claim for it. Now, the big question is, will he be tried as an adult or a kid? And those are extremely different outcomes. Yeah. Extremely different. Yeah. I am always of the opinion that...

Personally, a 15-year-old is a 15-year-old. Yeah. There's a reason we don't let them vote or drive unless you're in a farm or fucking buy tobacco or gamble or join the army or work or do anything that requires any sort of decision-making or maturity because they don't have it yet. Or be treated as an adult. Yeah. Yeah.

They're basically a bag of hormones with a hard dick at this point. So it's a different thing. They can't be in the workplace. They are an HR nightmare. No. It's amazing, though. If you went on a job interview and said you were 15, they're like, well, we can't hire you. You're a child. Then you went outside and murdered everybody. You can come back in and go, I'm an adult now, according to the state. Yeah.

So, like, I get that we, especially in the 90s, that shit wasn't playing at all because that was like, these kids are the worst thing ever. And they were talking about, you know, super predator children who were walking around at 12 who were, you know, had drug empires and were murdering everybody. And, like, there was so much...

Fucking media just scaring on that. Everybody thought about it. So, well, they didn't treat them. So here's an editorial in the local newspaper. Oh, boy. Did Michael Neugebauer really kill his entire family as the first line? If this teenage boy's defense attorneys convince the North Dakota Supreme Court to leave the question in the hands of the juvenile authorities, the public will never know the answer.

Yeah.

These considerations on teenage crime happen all the time, but Nugabower's is no common case. He was 15 at the time of the January 26th murder of his parents, his brother, his sister, at their Monacan farm home. The murders and Nugabower's subsequent escape to Florida were national news. Presuming he was to plead innocent, he would have a courtroom trial in which anybody could walk in and watch. The proceedings would be public information every day.

If his case is tried in juvenile court, the proceedings and record are closed to the public under North Dakota law. Okay, but that's, who cares? That's...

After reviewing the results of the psychiatric evaluation at the state hospital in Jamestown, South Central District Judge Dennis Schneider on April 16th is talking about whether he will stand trial as an adult. But defense attorneys Rodney Felder and William Schmidt appealed to the judge saying that he would probably be rehabilitated through juvenile programs.

You can't don't throw them away yet is what they're saying. The briefs contain references to how well Nuga Bauer has behaved during his few months of incarceration at the state industrial school in Mandan and that defense attorneys argued that he had been volunteering for extra chores. And it says in the article goes on to say now that now that ought to comfort us all.

and used as other supporting quote evidence some statements from juvenile authorities who saw potential for his quote rehabilitation as they're written the appeals briefs assume guilt

They concentrate almost exclusively on the fitness of the state to meet out counseling, but they don't offer evidence that he didn't commit the crime. Yet investigations after the murder alleged a family crisis, marital problems, some hotheadedness, disputes over Michael's relationship with his girlfriend. In fact, the appeal brief contains ominous reference to allegations of recent unruly behavior about the boy made by his father just days before the murders.

So it's not about the father's been abusing him. He's been abusing the family and the father. This has been a bad kid. Just a bad seed, man. Yeah, it bubbled over.

How can anyone how can anybody know what really happened that night? Why should anyone automatically presume Michael Nugabower coldly killed his entire family? Was anyone else involved? And do we presume from the tone of the appeals brief he told juvenile authorities that he committed the crime? More questions come to mind. If Michael Nugabower did in fact kill his family and he stays at under the state under juvenile authority, can the community comfortably sleep at night after his release in two to four years?

Are they secure enough to prevent his escape or to prevent violence by him or against him? And is, quote, peer group rehabilitation rather than punishment by criminal incarceration appropriate for someone used accused of committing a multiple murder? Juvenile authorities are trained to straighten out wayward kids, and we've no doubt they would try their best.

But the argument for adult court is that the checks and balances of public scrutiny help ensure justice is served and understood by the community at large, not just by a few specialists entrusted with that power. The dramatic case of Michael Neugebauer is too big for the juvenile system. We shouldn't wring our hands over whether he belongs in adult prison until we answer the central question in adult court with the whole world watching. Did Michael Neugebauer kill his family? Even though he says, absolutely, I did. Yeah, he did. Yeah.

But that's interesting. They're saying he should be tried in adult court. Not for us because we want to punish him, but for him, but for the freedom of open court.

Not because we want to try a 15-year-old as an adult. That's crazy. So they said, if the teenage boy's defense attorneys convince the North Dakota Supreme Court to leave the question in the hands of the juvenile authorities, the public will never know the answer. Such a decision for closure wouldn't be good for him. So, yeah, big deal. Anyway...

Is there going to be a trial or what's going on here? Well, we got to know. Prosecutors are saying that it doesn't matter if he remembered what he had done, claiming that he told several versions of what happened that night to different people. So whether he did it doesn't matter. Fact is, he did it. So that's all they're saying. Now he's going to plead guilty.

For his dad's murder. By the way, the judge rules it is adult court, not juvenile court. Is that right? He's an adult at 15. Yeah. So head on out to the titty bar, Mike. You got this. Apparently you're allowed in.

It's just magically we can... And I'm not... Obviously, I don't want teenage killers to get away with shit. I'm just... It's weird that we can just adjudicate someone older than they are. That's just crazy. I adjudicate your brain be more developed than it actually is. It's a weird fucking thing. It's too severe of a crime, so I have to be able to treat it with what it deserves. Yes. Like, you have to be an adult to come up with that or some shit, which is not mutually exclusive. I mean, you can't just... Yeah, you can't just...

change facts in the case to make it fit. In that case, if somebody rapes somebody, well, then just charge them with murder, too, and that way we can kill them. Yeah, that's what I mean. What are we talking about? It's just changing shit. Yeah. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit about Loomy. Everyone's had times where you're unsure of your smell. You're like, what's going on? I don't know about this. You know what I mean? When you're walking around and you're just like, did I...

Did I? Thank goodness I have this sweater on. Yeah, am I? Hopefully this is holding this in, whatever I think I have here. So that's why we're very thankful for Lume Whole Body Deodorant so none of us, you, us, everybody has to worry about BO ever again. And unlike certain other...

deodorants out there. Loomy's powered by mandelic acid to control odor in a new way. Loomy delivers an outrageous 72-hour odor control everywhere from pits to privates and beyond. Whole body. Whole body. That's everything. They include it all. Loomy's starter pack is perfect for new customers. It comes with a solid stick deodorant, cream tube deodorant, two free products of your choice like a mini body wash and deodorant wipes, and free shipping. Yeah.

As a special offer for listeners, new customers get 15% off all Lume products with exclusive code here. And if you combine the 15% off with the already discounted starter pack, that equals over 40% off their starter pack. Use the code SMALLTOWNMURDER for 15% off your first purchase at LumeDeodorant.com.

That's code smalltownmurder at l-u-m-e-d-e-o-d-o-r-a-n-t dot com. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. Also, Lume's men's brand, Mando, is perfect for the holidays. Yeah? It is. Give the man in your life the gift of aluminum-free, whole-body deodorant with cologne-quality scents.

Just like Lumi, it's safe to use anywhere. Check out Mando at shopmando.com and get 15% off with code SMALLTOWNMURDER. Smell fresher, stay drier, and boost your confidence from head to toe with Lumi. Now back to the show.

Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about the most safe sponsor there is. Simply Safe. SimplySafe.com. S-I-M-P-L-I-S-A-F-E.com. That is correct, Jimmy. Let's get these people safe. If you've ever worried about the safety of your home and family, there's no better time to act.

Right now, you can get, this is amazing, 60% off a new SimpliSafe security system. It's their best deal of the year. SimpliSafe is the home security that we trust. We've been using it for years. Seven, eight years now, I think we've been using it almost eight years. And I love it.

We love SimpliSafe. It's so easy to install. Honestly, it's the best and the price of it. It's fantastic. You need it. Trust us here. SimpliSafe is offering our listeners exclusive early access to their Black Friday sale. This week only, you can get 60% off any new system with a select professional monitoring plan. This is their best offer of the year.

Head to simplisafe.com slash small. That's simplisafe.com slash small. S-A-M-P-L-I safe.com slash small. There's no safe like SimpliSafe. Now back to the show. Wow. So he's going to plead guilty for the murder of his father in adult court. Okay. There's been, I guess the prosecutor said the change of plea came as a result of negotiations.

Between her office and his attorneys. The negotiations have been ongoing for months, she said as well. It's been a long time, which is weird. So she said just after lunch, the defense attorney called her office and said that Neugebauer was interested in, quote, one of the previous offers. Remember that? Yeah. Remember that shit we talked about a few days ago? He's into one of those. Which one? Well, I don't know. Let me go through my notes and figure it out. Yeah.

That's weird. So Burke, who's the assistant state's attorney, met with the defense attorneys and then the defense attorneys talked to Nugabower again. And then the three of them called the judge to the office, said, you know, we'd like to meet in your office. The judge was in a trial, so they left a message asking him to call the prosecutor's office on his next break. Hollowing in a busy.

Hit me up. So they do. The judge call returns the call and he told them to come upstairs to an empty courtroom right away. He recessed the other trial for 45 minutes to take care of this real quick.

We have 45. Come on in. Let's fucking wrap this bitch up right here. Holy. So the prosecutor said that the three remaining murder charges are stayed until an evaluation of Nuga Bauer at the state hospital because he's saying he doesn't remember those officially. So.

That's how that goes. She said she doesn't expect to she does not expect to dismiss those charges and that there would be and that there would be no trial but would not say how she expects them to be disposed of. She doesn't know how long the evaluation will take. So she's apparently saying there's a plea deal on the table for those as well. So they're not going to be dismissed. But she doesn't expect to go to trial on the charges.

She said the facts are not at issue. It's a given that the murders occurred and that he did them. And there's no question he intended to kill his father. There's still a question about his intent and the state of mind on the other victims, she said, and that's why the evaluation will be done. Interesting. He said he's already taken other evaluations at the state hospital, but the prosecutor said those were for other specific reasons unrelated to this new evaluation that will center on his intent and lack of memory of the other three deaths.

Now, he may serve the first year or more of his sentence at the State Industrial School, which is a juvenile facility. That'll be worked out between the officials, but then he'll be in adult prison after that, is how this works. So he was scheduled to go on trial for four Class AA murders. Wow, you did a double-A murder there.

Class AA. Class AA. North Dakota, you got some funny shit happening. Call that shit Major League Murders, if at least. Sounds like AA murders. Like they're not that important. Weak-ass AA. AA-ass murders. That's the most severe crime in North Dakota. So the maximum penalty for Class AA murder is life in prison, which would make you uneligible for parole for 30 years. But you could shave off good time.

Sure. It's interesting. Five days per month. Good time. He could be eligible for parole in 24 years. So he can shave off six years of that shit. That's what it's 20 percent of your time. Basically, you can shave off. So asked if she knew why Michael and his lawyer decided to plead guilty instead of go to trial. She said that you'll have to ask them. Perhaps it was he felt it was time or that he could be found guilty or he's not just come or he's just coming to grips with what he's done.

So he ends up taking an Alford plea for the rest of these. Yes, they give him an Alford plea for the rest of this shit. And if you don't know what that is, we've talked about it before. But that is where you plead essentially that it's not a guilty plea, but it's a plea that says that the defendant believes that the prosecution has enough evidence to convict them. So they will plea to this even though. So there's no allocution. Right. And not not claiming guilt.

Not claiming guilt. And then he doesn't have to do an allocution here because he says he can't remember. That's how that works. They're getting him on his dad for 30 years, but he's going to serve 24. And he's getting unbelievable. So now they're going to do an Alford plea. That's a deal. He's getting six years per. Well, we'll see here. He said he was pleading guilty to avoid the possibility of four consecutive life sentences because that's what he could have got. That's what the deal is for. That would be terrible. To put it all into one, basically. Yeah.

So that was one of the possibilities. So they said that he was asked if he was persisting. The judge asked him if he was persisting in his earlier declaration that he had no memory of the other three shootings. And he said, yes. The judge then asked him if he was sure that he could be convicted. And he said, no, I'm not. Which is why you take an Alford plea. So the judge says, you're not satisfied. And he Michael shook his head. No.

So the boy and the judge then discussed whether he could get a fair trial with Michael shaking his head that he doesn't believe he could get a fair trial. Not North Dakota where everyone's heard about this. It's the biggest thing that's happened. There's 72 people. One of them hasn't even heard. It's the biggest thing that's happened since they found a new strain of corn. Like it's wild shit since the fucking wheat fields have been plowed.

So Neugebauer and his attorney conferred, and then the attorney told the judge there was a very strong possibility that the jury would convict his client. That's what we're going on. He's like, listen, dude, I get what we're doing here, Michael, but it's legal shit. You just have to say this. We're going to get you, man. Yeah. So the judge asked for the factual basis of the case, and the prosecutors described their evidence. After the description, the judge turned to Michael and asked if he believed the state had a strong case against him, and Michael said yes.

So then he pleads guilty using an Alfred Flea, Alfred Flea, an Alfred Flea, an Alfred Flea. You know, that's a flea gets in trouble for killing somebody and doesn't want to fucking go to prison forever. We'll do an Alfred Flea. The judge then says, basically told him you could spend your time in prison continuing to blame others or you could decide to make something of yourself even behind bars. And you're super young, like.

Yeah. Even if you did 30 years, you're going to be in your forties when you get out. Like you have a lot of time left in this world. That's unbelievable. You're going to spend, that's weird, man. So he said that other prisoners sentenced to life have done useful things, even though they're imprisoned. But if he does not make something of himself in prison, he's not likely to be paroled. He's like, if you want to get, so he's giving him advice.

The judge said he was referring to the fact that Nugent Bauer would be eligible to seek parole in after 25 to 30 years. If you count good time, he said, if you persist in an attitude that none of this is your fault, you may very well spend your entire life in prison. Then he said, I guess the other thing that concerns me, I've never seen one ounce of remorse.

That's something good. No, he said, that's something you better think about until that remorse sets in. You're going to have a tough time. You young man may fuck off for life sentences concurrent. Oh shit. So he gets a life for each one of them, but to run concurrently, but still for life. So he got life for all of me. Just didn't get consecutive life, which is why I planned now. Now the prosecutor here, um,

is pissed off at Michael for saying he doesn't remember the other three murders. Oh? All pissed off, yeah. Yeah? Said that this was the subject of the third psychological evaluation at a state hospital, and the prosecutor said, the doctor came to the conclusion that he had been deceptive. I find it real difficult to believe. Oh.

He said it's not like and then they asked him, hey, you let this guy plea and now he's getting off with this easy sentence. Yeah. And he's like, he said, quote, it's not like he's walking on out the other walking out on the other three. He said he's got life with parole convicted. It's a life sentence. He said it's pretty good sentence. I don't know what you're talking about.

You got someone to plea while saving the taxpayers hundreds of thousands of dollars. Like, what do you want? And we gave a teenager the opportunity to change his ways. Yeah. You want to pay a shitload of money to get him in jail for a few extra years just to say, yeah. It's like most of the people saying that will be dead by the time he even gets out of jail. Shut the fuck up and mind your business. How's that? So Michael's aunt here, Helen.

She said after the court hearing that she believed that he should have gone to trial. How would you go to trial? She's out of her mind. They're not going to believe that he didn't remember. And even if he didn't remember, they're still going to say he's guilty and didn't. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, there's no way to do that. She believes he was motivated by, and this is when a lot of shit comes out here. This is far from over. She believes that the murders were motivated by physical and sexual abuse he suffered over the years. Oh, come on.

Yes, this aunt waged a months-long campaign to be allowed to visit Michael in the Burley County Detention Center. She said she's hoping he gets counseling in prison. She said he's got to figure out how to take responsibility for the killings and still realize the abuse wasn't his fault.

Those are two separate, big, huge, giant things that people spend their whole lives trying to work one of those out. You know what I mean? Honestly. Yeah, and that sex abuse thing is real fucked. That's what I mean. It takes a whole life to realize that's not your fault sometimes. Never mind, you killed four people too. So she said that he has shown remorse to him, to her, and cried about the deaths of his brother and mother in particular. Sister and father can go fuck themselves, but brother and mother, awful. Yeah.

Sherman and her husband, she's Merle's wife, by the way, the guy who went over there to call the cops here. She said they still want to help him, too. She said, what the judge said about him doing something with his life, we're going to support him and try to give him the moral support we can. Okay, now he sent...

It's a prison now. And this was in early 1994. He does an interview later on. Well, it's not really an interview. It's kind of because the judge ruled he wasn't allowed to do any interviews for a while. So he had like he wrote letters. This is pieced together from letters he wrote, correspondence with people. He says this, quote, I was abused physically and sexually for years and I just never said anything about it to anybody.

He said it was the abuse that drove him to kill his father. His father's physical abuse was horrible. And his sister's sexual abuse. So the interesting part is the sister, who authorities charged with crimes for incidents outside the Neugebauer family. So sister did something. I don't know what's going on here because...

From what I understand, the high school she went to is a high school for bad kids also. Yeah. So I'm not sure what's going on, but he says that his father beat him up and his sister sexually abused him also. That's what's going on here, which means that someone was sexually abusing her. Yeah. Like, you know, girl children don't come up with that shit on their own. That's tough, yeah. So that's what he said. Was she for sure a...

Is that for sure? We don't. That's what he says. I can't. I have no idea. I'm trying to speak ill of the dead here, but that's what he says. And apparently there were charges for crimes. We don't know what crimes, but outside of the family. So I'm not sure if she did something to somebody else or what. We don't know.

Michael said, after that anyway, it would have been better if I had been killed. I wouldn't have to go through all the shit I went through in the last two or three years. A lot easier, I think. Yeah, yeah. Today, the prison won't allow interviews with him, but he sent this to Jackie. By the way, Jackie's still around. She's still... Whoa, what the fuck? Oh, we'll see Jackie is ride or fucking die for a little while anyway. Yeah? Even though she has a kid here at some point. That's to be expected. Well, that's not his, is it? Fuck no, no. No.

This is what he wrote, quote, I hate what I did and how it hurt so many people. I think what my family missed out on in life because I took it away. I think of what my family missed out on in life because I took it away. I put the oven there. He forgot it. I am the one responsible and me alone. I picked up the gun to help me get away from the hell I was going through and living in. I did not intend to kill anyone. If I saw how things ended, I would have never done it.

Really? Interesting. Yeah. So if you thought about this, the consequences, you know, it's weird. It's almost like 15-year-olds don't think shit through. Yeah, like they don't understand consequences. Yeah, it's almost like they don't understand long-term consequences because they're children. It's almost like they should be older before they're adults maybe.

They don't understand how long life really is. Yes, they don't. When I was 15, I never thought. Holy shit. 50, 60, 70. I never even thought about that shit. I thought I'd be long dead by now. Never mind.

I just thought, I mean, you live forever. I saw George Burns on TV. I'm going to live that long? Fuck, that's so far away. I'll either be dead by 23 or be 112, one or the other. There's no in between is what you think when you're a teenager. I'll either be dead like in a James Dean fiery car accident or something.

Some cool way. Or be Burgess Meredith. Or, yeah, you can wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first. You can do that. One or the other. Want to take a ride on my Filoni? I love when he says, well, if he craps out two dimes and a nickel, that's when you know you got problems. Because he ate a quarter of the baby. If he craps out two dimes and a nickel. And for lunch, I have a bacon sandwich.

And I usually drink my dinner. For breakfast, I have a big pile of bacon. When he's flirting with the old lady in the bloopers, it's the greatest thing. Oh, that's great. That's so great. That's so funny. Why'd you cut that out, guys? That's so funny. Yeah, leave that in the movie. It's so funny. That's hilarious.

If you've not seen Grumpy Old Men, if you're younger or something, you're like, I don't want to watch a 30-year-old movie about old men. Yes, you fucking do. It's hilarious. Grumpy Old Men is the better one because he does despicable things. I can't tell you the difference between except one is Sophia Loren and one's Andy Dickinson. That's the only way I know. The second one's Sophia. Yeah.

I know that, but like all the jokes can't tell you which one is which. It's like the same, which is good. I mean, the sequels were like equally good. Both movies. They just went together. This is terrific. The old man basically threatening to rape an older lady. An older lady. While he's like hunched over and shaken. Let's fuck. What do you say?

So, Jackie says this, quote, Mike is responsible for pulling the trigger, but it's a domino effect. If he would have been taken out of that home when he should have been, his dad got help. I know they would have been alive. And this is what I live with every single day of my life. Yeah. What more could you do but call the people and get it? What more could a 16-year-old do? You couldn't go over there.

The father threatened you with a hammer and ran over your dog just for hanging out with the guy. Like, it's not like you could have went over there and said, come on, Michael, I'm taking you away from all this. He made Mike clean up Benji on the road. You can't do this. Fucked, man. You couldn't have done anything. So the prosecutor, through all this, writes a letter to the newspaper. It's not good enough that he got a life sentence. The prosecutor also doesn't want anyone to feel bad for him as well. He needs public. Public shame and humiliation.

Which, again, shouldn't have shot your mother, shouldn't have shot your brother, definitely shouldn't have shot your sister, and probably shouldn't even have shot your father. Just don't shoot people. There's other explanations for this. But if what he said is true, I get the father thing. Yes, for sure. And I even get the sister thing if his sister was sexually abusing him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But not, I'm not condoning it, but I understand it. But the brother and the mother, no fucking. No reason.

Because if he did that, he could have said, I was protecting them. I was protecting him from my sister and my mom from my father. But when you kill everybody, then you're just a piece of shit who killed everybody. And you're killing a little boy that's cowering in his room. That's what I mean. Who probably worships you, by the way, as an older brother. Yeah. Yeah.

Three years younger, older brother probably worships his ass. Probably thinks you're the coolest. Follows him around, does all the shit he does. Fucking pathetic. So prosecutor writes a letter here. And she said, as the person who prosecuted the case, I would like to clear up misconceptions. Oh. And then has like Sarah Boone bullet points, like when Sarah Boone writes the judge about everything.

There is apparently misinformation and rumor that Michael Neugebauer was the victim of child abuse by his father in some way. Extensive investigation came up with not one bit of evidence that such is the case. By the way, put that in there that they're saying this now because they changed their tune bafflingly.

Big time about this shit later on. Yeah. There are no official records that Michael Neugebauer or anyone else ever reported any sort of abuse. Friends and relatives that were talked to told law enforcement they'd never seen any indication of any form of abuse. By the way, they were very private people, too.

And usually abusive families are very private for that reason. Right. They don't want people knowing what's going on inside the house. In addition, Neugebauer was evaluated on at least four occasions by psychiatrists or psychologists. His lawyers in our office agreed that nothing he said in those evaluations would be used against him. He did not mention any instances of abuse.

There appears to be a misconception as to what sentence was imposed and what the practical result of the sentence is. Neugebauer was sentenced to life imprisonment on four counts of murder. These sentences will run concurrently or together. Neugebauer will be eligible for parole once he's served 30 years minus any accrued good time. This means he'll be eligible for parole in 23 to 25 years if he's been able to amass all available good time.

Being eligible for parole does not mean he's going to be released, but rather that his status will be reviewed for the first time. The parole board will consider all pertinent information regarding him, including the circumstances of the offense, his conduct and progress while in prison, and the input of family members, the prosecutor told the judge. The prosecutor and the judge, I'm sorry. Finally, the writer criticized the plea bargain in this case. From the standpoint of the prosecution, there were several compelling reasons to enter into the agreement.

The first is that there's never any guarantee of a guilty verdict when a case is presented to a jury, regardless of how strong the case is. One only needs to recall the Bobbitt and Menendez cases to see that a seemingly airtight case may not result in a favorable verdict. Sure. Second is the cost involved. While the cost of prosecution is never determinative of our office's decisions, it certainly must be a consideration, especially given the tremendous costs already incurred in this case.

Because all that shit, it all gets charged to North Dakota. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All the stuff that happened. You got to pay for it. They said, thirdly, there's no guarantee that Judge Glazer would have imposed consecutive sentences had we gone to trial and gotten four guilty verdicts. He might have given them the exact same. We spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and he got the exact same fucking deal. And now he's going to appeal it 30 times too because he can. Which will cost us more. Which will cost us more hundreds of thousands of dollars that you fucking people don't want to pay. And you'll complain about later even though this is what you want. Yeah.

Frustrating. So he said, as stated above, the parole board must in 30 years or so find that Nuga Bauer is suitable to return to society. If not, he will remain in prison for the rest of his life. This will not, of course, bring back the four victims, but it's the best we can do. This is all we've got. That's fair. That's fair. 1997.

There is an interview with Michael, and guess who's there? Who's there? Jackie. She's still there. This is five fucking years later. She's still sitting by his side. Not in prison. She's free. The article here says, three times a week, Jackie Heib walks through the maze of steel-barred prison hallways to the visiting room. There, for two hours, she and Michael Neugebauer think of places they have been and the places they would rather be. Florida.

Cancun, Cayman Islands, Iowa, Iowa, fucking Nevada, anywhere else but here.

Nugabower speaks first. His eyes never leave Jackie's as they sit together. We're just good friends, he says. Who dot dot dot. And then her words overtake him. I'm still in love with him with all my heart, she says over the noise. But it's kind of hard now. Makes it a bit difficult. This kid must be a fucking stud when he was 15. She's still on him. Yeah. Did they fuck? Man.

Fuck yeah, they slept in the same bed the most. Yes. After you butcher your family and go on the run, you are fucking mad. Probably the best sex he'll ever have in his entire life. But he got all three. He got all three. Exactly. We've seen from Gypsy Rose. After a murder, it's all three. Every time. Pretty much all three. Pretty much all three.

Jesus, Nick, go to John fucking interrogation. If you really just want to be baffled and laugh and sad, watch truly sad, sad, baffled and also hilarious at the same time. It's really weird. Saddened by a kid that got taken advantage of. So weird.

So while Nugabower faced murder charges, Jackie was labeled a runaway. She was hustled from psychiatric ward in Bismarck to a group home in Fargo to her father's home in Texas. Finally, she returned to Bismarck and to Nugabower. She said, I've tried to go on with my life, but in a way, our lives stopped back then. In a way. In a way. His life is definitely stopped for sure. Hard breaks. Hard, hard stop right there.

Full stop. He stood on them on the freeway. Yours was paused for a while here. Then she says, running away with Michael was probably one of the biggest things that's ever happened in my life. I would assume the fucking very biggest at this point, right? What else have you done? You are 22 at this point? 21 at this point, yeah. Now, his aunt says, this is Michael's aunt, they've been through so much together, I feel like they, I think they feel bonded.

I know that Mike doesn't think he's in love with her anymore, but there's still something between them. It's a trauma bond. Yeah. And they're, they're fucked up kids. They were both fucked up. Kids were fucked up kids together. Then the article goes on to say that they asked Jackie, had she gone with him of her own free will? Did she even know what he was suspected of doing? She insists now that she knew nothing about the killings when she agreed to run away. Like we said, it wasn't until they stopped at the motel room the first night that he told her he'd killed his father.

She said, I didn't believe him. How are you supposed to react? Like, yeah, right. And Michael said, I don't blame her. That's kind of a shock to hear. So I didn't blame her for being like, yeah, bullshit. You didn't kill your father. So she said she never thought about turning him in ever. Never even considered it. Never. Never even thought about it. Nope. She said we were in it together from then on. She's badass.

Fuck, man. He says he still doesn't remember killing his mother, sister or brother. He says, quote, I hope I never remember. He said, I remember the first shot and that's about it.

Okay. Okay. Now, the prosecutor here, Patricia Burke, says, horseshit. She doesn't buy a fucking word of it. He remembers every bit of it. He remembers it. He fucking remembers it. That's one thing. Don't say you don't remember it, dude. Say, I did it because I shouldn't have done fucking A and B, but I meant fucking C and D. And it was super fucked up watching my brother die. I was just going to say, be a man, but he was 15, so never mind. Be a child. Be a stand-up child. Stand up, man.

So she says she notes that Neugebauer told several different versions after his arrest, including one in which he said he killed his father because his father had killed the rest of the family. He told several stories. One of the ones was I came in and Dad had killed everybody and I had to shoot him. I had to put him down. I was just packing at the moment. Yeah, but then they were like, how did you get the gun away from him to shoot him with the same gun he shot everybody else with? How would you do that? And he was like, fuck. Okay, never mind. Back to one. Back to one, everybody. Yeah.

That's fucking crazy. She also says Michael Neugebauer can deal with what he did the way he sees fit. If he wants to say he doesn't remember, that's fine with me. All I know is he killed four people. And she also says that she could never substantiate, even three years after we just talked about it before, from 94, couldn't substantiate the claims of abuse. She said, let's assume he was abused, which I don't believe he was. Uh-huh.

But let's assume it anyway. Why would he kill his little brother? He murdered four people and then he went and played on the beach in Florida. I think he deserves to be where he's at. That's hard to argue. Yeah, that's a good point. It's hard to argue. Did he go to the beach?

I remember they came to the hotel from the beach. God, that's right. She was so... From Sarasota. They were eating cheeseburgers and frolicking and fucking. Oh, my God. They played in the pool, for Christ's sake. I bet they had a floaty going on. They were tickling each other. Fuck, yes. The warden here, Tim Schulze, said that Nuga Bauer, and this isn't going to last long, but said he's been a model prisoner. Oh, yeah.

Although recently he was disciplined for threatening a woman prisoner. I don't know why they were together, but an offense that Michael describes as a mere misunderstanding. He's like, that was just a misunderstanding. They say he spends most of his time working out. And he said that he is not asking Jackie to wait for him, by the way. He said, I wouldn't want anyone to put their life on hold for me. Well, she's got a kid, so I don't know how much on hold she's...

She's getting a regular dish. She might not be married to anybody, but she's definitely fucking moving on with her life here. So by 1999, Michael is in lockdown when they go to talk to him here. And they said that he created a hiding space in his cell by removing door paneling.

I don't know what the advantages of that are, but they suspect that he created the space to hide tools he planned to use for an escape. So it was a storage area, not for him to hide. And the warden said he's an individual with nothing to lose, and he's proven that time and time again. Oh, shit. He's got nothing to lose, which he kind of does. But, you know, 2004, now he's in deep shit again. He's in the hole now when they go talk to him.

Yeah. Yeah.

New Gabour and four others may face new escape charges after they allegedly stole a bolt cutter earlier this month in another earlier this year in another apparent attempt to break out of prison. Oh, my God. Has been trying to break out of prison constantly. Apparently, why is he doing that from 99 on? He just got like, I don't know if he gave up and just said, fuck it. I got to get out of here. But he's trying to break out of prison, which we're going to live a new life. Exactly.

So they said that he was transferred and the plans are to do the other federal people were transferred in Nuga Bauer. They're going to transfer him to. So now from now on, he's going to get transferred to prisons all over the country. He's an escape. He's an escape risk. So they keep putting him in all these like high security prisons that he can't get comfortable in. So he can't. Yeah. Yeah. So and also federal facilities that are more secure. They said he is classified as a high escape risk and move to maximum security lockdown. Yeah.

Okay.

Apparently here. So would they go and talk to him? And that's that's where he is. He's like in the full maximum shit here. And he says he has full. He has few visitors. Hardly anybody comes and sees him anymore. Of course. And he's unable to speak with those who do come in the normal visiting room because he's being punished for this suspected escape attempt here. So there's a skate plot here.

So they said in that room, inmates don't wear handcuffs and there's couches to sit on. It's like a decent place to visit people. This is through the glass, you know, pick up the phone and talk through the glass shit here. So he said, though, since he is being punished, he can't go anywhere without handcuffs now either. He's got to be cuffed the whole time. Yeah.

The punishment known as the hole to him and other inmates, this article says, obviously we know the hole, a few months when he is confined to his cell all day. Every 15 days he gets to spend some time out of his cell. Every 15 days he gets to come out of his cell. It's not 23 and 1. No, no, no. 15 days and he earns an hour. Yes, it's 30 and 2 is what it is, meaning days. Yeah.

So that's wild. Otherwise, he gets out once a day to take a 15 minute shower. That's it. No exercise. Nothing. He tries to sleep as much as he can, he says, which what else would you do? He says he's innocent, at least of the escape plot. So, look, I didn't do that. Yeah.

He said, and if it weren't for my reputation, people wouldn't think that. You know what I mean? And the newspaper said that if you didn't know who he was, his smooth voice and piercing eyes could probably convince anybody that he's telling the truth, too. Yeah.

They said inmate number 16730 hardly seems like the monocan teenager who pleaded guilty to killing his family, shooting his father, mother, sister and brother in their farmhouse in 1992. But today, more than 10 years after his sentencing, Neugebauer is not denying what happened that day.

Right.

Although he recalls more today than he did a decade ago, he still can't give a chronology of what happened that day. He still finds the whole thing hard to believe. Really? He said, quote, it's still hard for me to think that I even did it. I mean, how could I? The fuck was I thinking? He said, fuck was I thinking, man?

Which I would hope that a lot of murderers think that when they're. Yeah. Fuck was I thinking? Why did I do that? What the fuck is wrong with me? What the hell am I doing here? He says that he knows what he did, but he's unable to tell it to anyone back then. He says he did not tell anyone at the time.

He said, I pretty much know I did it. I remember it happened with him first, my father. So I know it had to have happened with the rest of them. What else could have happened? Someone else came in and took the gun and shot them. He said, what happened is something he thinks of every day. He said, I take responsibility for it, all of it. He says, you aren't going to put it out of your mind, not ever. It's not just something you forget about. You think about it every day, but you try not to. Mm-hmm.

So he says that he doesn't understand. He said he knows he hated his father as a result of the abuse, but he doesn't know what he did with everybody else. He's not quite sure what he was doing. I can't fathom that. Yeah. He said that he said, you, you want to use that as an excuse. It is an excuse. But what I'm trying to say is that I don't lay it on. I don't lay it all on that. So I'm not trying to blame anything. He says it's so much different when you're a kid. You feel like you have no way out.

Which at 15, you really, you feel, and that's the thing we've talked about so many fucking times. Like Columbine, for instance. Yeah. Those kids were seniors. Right. They were a month from graduating. In a month and a half, they would have never, ever had to see any of those fucking people ever again. They could have sat around, drawn pictures on their faces at the yearbook and remember that asshole while they went to their fucking jobs. Yeah. Yeah.

That made no sense to me. None. Because there was a way out. Wait a month and you're out. Not even. It was April 20th. Yeah, it was a month. It was four weeks. Literally four weeks shy of graduating. Fucking crazy. When you're 15 and it's your parents, it might be different. You know what I mean? I could see that feeling like there's no way out of this trailer in this small town. Where am I going to go? 72 people.

Picture the globe. Picture your little dot on the globe. How do you get out of that if you're 15? Murder isn't the answer, obviously, but, you know. He said it's so much different, though. He said, I really don't feel like I've grown up at all at times. He said, I feel like life stopped 13 years ago, and this has all been a bad dream. It's only been 13 years, too. That's it, man.

They said, but he's a convicted killer now, and instead of fishing, he's inside of his cell, a six-foot-wide room with no window, no carpet, no comfort. His bed is made of metal, his mattress thin. Before he goes to sleep, he folds his pillow over twice and tries to put his memories out of his mind. He concentrates instead on what the backs of his eyelids look like. It's never totally dark in his room. In prison, there are nightlights in each cell. It's never totally quiet because people talk all night, or as Neugebauer writes, they yell just to be heard.

Is that right? Oh, people scream and yell all night in fucking prison. It's a thing. Oh, my God. They want to disrupt shit. People in prison, a lot of them aren't good with societal shit, like, hey, don't do that. You disturb others. They want to disturb people. That's the point. Oh, dude.

To get a good night's sleep would be nuts. Fuck, man. And then you wonder why people get stabbed. Maybe everyone that got stabbed is just keeping people up too late. And why people are smuggling in sedatives. Exactly. Look, man, I can't sleep in here. At least they can drug me through this shit. Fuck. But he said, I try to see...

Nothing but the backs of my eyelids. If I think about the things I want or used to, it makes for a long night. He tries to think about the outside. Prosecutors say they were never able to substantiate the claims of abuse. He says they never fucking tried to substantiate the claims of abuse. That's why. He said, I'm not normally a violent person. I'm not a cold-hearted person. I get upset. I've been upset many times. I have feelings just like everyone else. You can't always show your emotions, but that doesn't mean you don't have them.

The prosecutor who prosecuted him, Patricia Burke, says she has no regrets about what happened. The prosecution, she says, I certainly have regrets that four people were brutally murdered and that their families suffered horribly. But I don't have any regrets about prosecuting Michael Neugebauer. She then said, I think he got off fairly easy. Is that right? That's 10 years after she was in the paper going, hey, we fucking pinned his ass to the wall. Now it's easy.

his aunt, Helen, remember the one who's been supporting him? She says she thinks Michael was treated unfairly by prosecutors, law enforcement, and the media who failed to see him as a human being. Instead, he was treated and continues to be treated like an animal. I will say, if you... He definitely didn't say he might be a troubled kid. It was like, kid on the loose, he'll kill you all. Watch out. He's bloodthirsty, which it would look like that after you shot four people. Sure, sure.

She said, they say it's a good justice system. They say it's the best in the world and that we should be happy with that because that's all we have. But it just isn't good enough.

Now, Michael talks about how he learned how to shave in prison. Yeah. He's a blonde kid. He probably didn't shave till he was 18. He was like fully blonde. Oh, shit. He probably didn't shave till he was 25. He was like, let me get that little mustache off me. He got his GED in prison. He started reading recreationally in prison. He likes mystery novels. I guess that would maybe take you away from the. Yeah, I would think you'd want because I don't like fiction. But if I was in prison, I might like fiction.

Maybe. I might like to be taken away from here and go into my imagination rather than reality, which is what I normally like. He's learned to like the St. Louis Cardinals since he came to prison. That's nice. Hey, Cardinals, you got a new fan. Aren't you proud? Oh, that guy who killed four people likes us now. Terrific. Yeah. He said he watches his team on TV during baseball season. He also learned how to bake pies and cakes in the bakery. Isn't that nice? What?

I don't know why he's a pastry chef now, but that's what's happening. He's developed large biceps since working out is the only way to spend one of the only ways to spend time here. He's also learned in prison that he will never have a normal life. Even if he gets out, he'll be eligible for parole in 2023 unless he's convicted of perpetrating the escape plot. Oh, right. Yeah. He said, you can't be looking down the road thinking about when you might get out. It's nice to think about, but it eats you up inside if you keep thinking about it. Yeah. Yeah.

One day at a time is how they do that shit. That's the only way to do it. Like a drug addict. Yep. No, it's like a drug addict. What do they say? Yeah. Only do two days in this motherfucker. The day you come in, the day you walk out. That's it. That's the prisoner mantra. So everything else, you just got to like separate your body from it, I guess. He says he misses his family dearly.

And says that thinking about them eats him up inside. He said there's days when he wonders why he keeps on living. But he says he gets hope again in the end. He said, I don't really know. Sometimes if it's worth it, but I want it to be worth it. Really? Yeah. So they decide no escape charges for him or the four other inmates that tried to escape, even though they were trying to escape. That is interesting. Yeah. Yeah.

The what is this? The prison guy here on the state's attorney said there wasn't even remotely enough evidence to prove that.

These people were plotting to escape, even though it was obvious they were plotting to escape. There's no, no, they need, they need like, yeah, they need evidence. It was initially determined that five inmates helped move the bolt cutter from the shop in the prison's rough rider industries located outside the rough rider in prison. Really like that. Jesus Christ, man. You're inviting fucking man on man, fucking sexual violence here.

located outside the main confinement area. Three days after the tool's disappearance, it was found in the food service area where Neugebauer worked. So you can't prove that he told them to put it there, but he told them to put it. He's a guy who was always trying to escape. So, I mean, you know, we get an idea.

They said there was insufficient evidence to prove who took the bolt cutter, how it ended up in the food service area, who helped move it there, or what it was to be used for. Probably not preparing lunch, I would assume. No, no. The bolt cutter. He met with prison officials Wednesday at the Burley County... It's tough meat around here. Yeah, I'm going to... This fucking... Jesus Christ, these fucking ends of skirt they send us. Good Lord. Got to cut these things with bolt cutters for Christ's sake. This chicken is tough.

Man, this soy meat is tough. That's mainly what they use there. Among those at the meeting was Pat Branson, deputy state prison warden. Prison officials in the state's attorney's office mutually agreed not to pursue charges because the extra prison time wouldn't justify the cost of prosecution. Said we're going to have these big trials that we're going to have to have to try to get these guys two extra years.

Like they all have. Yeah. Yeah. They all have life life sentences. Makes no sense. Yeah. They said that conspiracy to escape from prison charges are class C felonies that carry a maximum sentence of five years in prison. Yeah. Not worth it. No. So Michael 2016 here. He's been in several states because he keeps being returned for escapist attempts before in 2016. He's finally returned to the penitentiary in Bismarck. So he's finally home here.

They moved him back to Bismarck? Eventually back to Bismarck by 2016. 2017, there's a new law. Okay. The 2017 statute states a court may reduce a sentence for someone convicted as an adult for a crime committed as a juvenile if they have served at least 20 years for the offense. Oh. Basically, 20 is enough if you did this shit when you were young. Yeah. Which, I mean, yeah, that's...

If you're in prison for longer than you've been alive. Good point. I kind of get it. So they filed his lawyers filed a motion for sentence reduction and determined that they said, please, they wanted the court to determine that the defendant is not a danger to anyone's safety. So he can be eligible for this.

2019, a statement to the court while this is all going on, because it takes years to then get an appeal on this. He wrote, I don't make my abuse an excuse for what happened, but it's the reason why it happened. I was a child trying to get out of a terrible situation. I didn't know the right way to get there. I just wanted out. That's what he was right, because he had to write that in a letter to a judge. 2020, he files a motion for sentence reduction hearing, which was denied.

Huh? Even though the letter of the law includes him in that perfectly. They didn't want to hear it. Nope. He appealed to the state Supreme Court, arguing the lower court was wrong to deny his motion without a hearing. They didn't even give him a fucking hearing. They just denied it. Not listening to your shit. Not listening to your shit. So 2022 is when he's finally heard on this shit. Really? Yeah, it's fucking wild, man. So in a brief file with the court opposing Nuga Bauer's request for a sentence reduction, the Burley County State's attorney wrote, the state does not dispute Nuga

The state does not dispute that Nuga Bauer was a victim of abuse as a child at the hands of his father and sister. We don't dispute it? For fucking 30 years, you have called him a fucking liar about that. Yeah. And now you go, well, we get that that happened, but still.

Well, you don't get to play it both ways, man. What the shit? I mean, I'm not saying that. Like I said, I'm not saying that that's an excuse to kill the fucking whole family. But when you say you deny that he was abused forever and you wonder why he's doing in his own juices and trying to escape.

Whatever. Anyway, so at the father or sister, while the state recognizes such abuse can and does have an effect on the mental well-being of children, you think so? A little bit. Nugabower's reaction to that abuse was disproportional to a disturbing degree. Absolutely right. I agree with that. The brief continued, therefore, while the fact of Nugabower's history of abuse would weigh in favor of a sentence reduction, because that gives him a reason why he did this shit, though

The weight is negated in this matter by the gross disproportionality of Neuberger's new Nuga Bauer's actions in response to that abuse. OK, Michael, at a motion hearing, spoke to the court of the circumstances of his home before the crime. Verbal, physical, sexual abuse at the hands of his father and sister. He said, usually I would end up on the ground and my dad would be the one kicking or hitting. And then he said his anger was taken out on my mom after that.

And I heard the audio of this. He's crying horribly. Really? He's like really, really digging deep and doing that shit. So it probably happened. He said it was never meant to go. Why would you tell your girlfriend that your father and sister are abusing you unless your father and sister were abusing you? Yeah. You want to look cool to your girlfriend. Yeah.

And even that's not a cool thing. Like, yeah, man, my sister comes in and sits on my face in the night. Like when I was eight. Like that's not my dad comes around, beats the shit out of me for no reason. That's not shit. That's cool. As a 15 year old, you'd be bragging. You wouldn't be bragging about that to a girlfriend. So I feel like that's probably true if he told her. He said it was never meant to go over and kill anybody. It was meant to be my protection. I never thought it through.

So he said he had tunnel vision after he shot his father without knowing what he was doing. And he says he didn't plan any of this. That's important, the planning. A psychologist here, Dr. Shannon Weiss, said it's more intellectual. It's more instinctual motions at that point than rational thought.

A psychologist expert witness for the defense testified this and said that at age 15, a person is not fully developed and there's a lack of personality red flags in Nugent Bauer presently. Like he's not displaying any personality.

anything red flags as far as that he's going to do it again. The state's attorney then asked if Nugabower actually suffered from PTSD or dissociation in 1992. And the psychologist said, I can't emphatically say yes, you know, because it's 30 years ago. She said, I guess she said, I guess it would be based on his self report. So, yeah, I can't.

glean how he felt 30 years ago now, but he's reporting that that's how he felt. And he's saying he won't do it again because the people that he wants to hurt are already gone. Yeah, unless anybody does that shit again to him, which probably won't happen when he's a 45-year-old ex-convict, I doubt. The state's expert psychologist says that he doesn't even have PTSD.

Which, if you got abused by two members of your family, which the state agrees with now, and then shot them all, you'd have PTSD. Unless you were a fucking psychopath. You'd have to be Ted Bundy level psychopath to not have PTSD from that. Certainly, yeah, you've got to be a mess. Like a hardcore fucking psychopath for that shit. So, Judge Bobby Wheeler raised questions on how mental development of a 15-year-old differs from adults.

Apparently never been around a 15 year old before. She asked both parties to make arguments on whether Nuga Bauer should have his sentence reduced at a later date. His aunt, Helen, still got his back, by the way. Dude, this Helen lady is a down bitch, man. Like if you're if you're Michael, this is the only person who stuck with you this whole time is Helen. And she's not even related to him by blood. Yeah, she is. Her former husband was his uncle, his mom's brother. And that dude died.

She's still hanging out. She's still hanging out. She said here that Neugebauer has a good heart and says she did feel a judge should grant him a sentence reduction, although she acknowledged that not all of his relatives may feel the same way.

Helen said that she kept in communication with Nuga Bauer over his decades-long incarceration and speaks with him by phone on a weekly basis. Jesus Christ, what a nice lady. She described him as a smart, hardworking guy and says that she has forgiven him for the crimes he committed. She said you can forgive the person without forgiving the sin.

Now, while she does not believe that's that's some Christian shit to say, though, if you're going to be a Christian, act like that. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, that's yeah. You can't be like all about vengeance and then be like, but Jesus is my. No, look, I've never saw vengeance once in there. Yeah, not once. He never talks about it. Rarely comes up with a lot of forgiveness, though. That comes up a lot. For sure. For sure. So she does believe that he should be granted a sentence reduction, although she has concerns about him adjusting to life outside of prison.

Because he's been in there his whole life. He has no idea how to be an adult on the outside. She said his whole life's been in there. She said that he would face challenges upon release and hopes there would be resources available for him on the outside, such as job assistance, should a judge grant this. His attorney also submitted a brief to the court saying Michael has served sufficient incarceration to both punish and rehabilitate him. Whichever one you want, he's got it, you know.

The brief request is sentenced to be reduced to time served with a period of supervised release of about five for at least five years. So let him out. Have him come to a parole officer three times a fucking week. Put a bracelet on him. Do whatever you want. Put an anklet on him. Have him go to the parole officer. Yeah, it's going to be weird when he hacksaws through his front door every day. He's trying to get out.

He hacksaws out his bedroom window, bolt cuts it out to fucking climb out. People are like, what is wrong with you? Why does he keep breaking his steering column in his own car? Keeps doing it. 2023. Yeah. This appeal, the decision comes down. The North Dakota Supreme Court rejects the sentence reduction request by Neubarger.

Yep. They said that he requested it based on the 2017 law. And the high court says since he was sentenced in 1994, the law became active in 2017. He would have to wait till 2037 to request a sentence reduction. Yeah, wait a little bit.

The 20 years then that they say you served has to be after the law came into play. It's not a retroactive law like most laws are. So... That's a poor bastard. That is ridiculous. That is fucking asinine. I'm sorry. So they said that by ruling... This ruling agrees with the state court, with the state's court here, or district court that originally did this, and he's fucked. So now, and because of his...

I'm not sure about good time or anything like that. From what I understand, he is eligible for parole in 2027. Okay. So it was originally 2023, but if he got all his good time, but I think tons of escape attempts work as good time. Yeah. And a lot of states have done away with good time too. So that might also be part of it. Also, they might've done away with it where what would have ended when it ended and that would have been that. So 2027, he might get parole. So that, yeah.

That is Monocan, North Dakota. Monocan? Monocan? Monocan. North Dakota. And holy shit, what a wild fucking story that is. My God. I mean. Buy him a bunch of hacksaws for getting in and out of his house. Fuck, man. He's about to be out, man.

It's like, you're going to get him some keys? He's like, I just got a ring of hacksaws. He's got a ring of little hacksaws he uses. It's fine. He's up for parole at that time or he's definitely getting out? No, he's up for parole. Oh, who knows? I can't imagine them not letting him. Got to let him. He's been there since he was 15. Yeah. Yeah.

15 and 92, so that would be 35 years. He'd be 50. Fucking wow. To say to a person you're the same guy at 50 that you were at 15 is kind of crazy. You know what I mean? That's nuts. I don't remember a lot of what happened when I was 15. Even if he did remember it, that shit's going to be fading by the time he's 50. Like, dude, I don't even remember banging my girlfriend afterwards. I don't remember any of this shit.

It's wild. Yeah. So anyway, that is Menaka, North Dakota. What a place. Fucking wild. Hell of a goddamn farm story. Imagine how big of a story this was in a town of 70 people. Forget it. Holy shit. Anybody that's still alive 35 years later remembers every second of it.

Was there anything else talked about down at the feed store for the next five years, probably? Holy shit. If you like the show, please tell the world about it. It helps so much. We can't express to you how much it helps. Get on whatever app you're listening on. They all have ways to review. Log in. It probably takes 10 seconds to log in and give us a review. It helps

Fucking remarkably. Tremendous. You know what you do? Put whatever you want in there. It doesn't matter. Just five stars. Write something nice. It doesn't even have to be that nice. Just say what your favorite Plains Chinese dish would be. There it is. What Plains animal would you like to see cooked Kung Pao style? Let's find out. General Tso's bison meat. I want to see.

Orange skunk. What do you want to be served with broccoli? Yeah. Find out. Tell us that. Also, head over to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com. You bet. Tickets for live shows. The live shows, honestly, they're almost sold out here. So if you want to get tickets to anything for the rest of the year, get them now. Austin, a few tickets left for you. Phoenix sold out the first day they went on sale last December. Yeah.

No tickets there. So if you find anybody selling them, whatever, try to get them. But otherwise, they can't get them. Those are gone. Boston almost sold out, too. And that's a big theater. That's going to be fun. And then New York, Tarrytown. Can't wait for that. It's going to be amazing. The beautiful music hall. And we just released the rest of them. I think they're almost gone. That's it. That's it. You can still get tickets, though, for the virtual live show that we did on October 30th. It'll be available, I think, until November 13th or something.

You can get that. You can watch it 20 times, do whatever you want, just like a regular live show. If you want to see a live show, can't get to one, or you want to see more live shows, it is the same setup. The table, the screen, us, pictures, story, jokes. Costumes.

You said that and I was digging in my head for when we had cartoons. When did we do cartoons? I was going to go, yeah, and then I'm like, what the fuck did we do? What the fuck is he talking about? Cartoons? Are you fucking high, Jimmy? I'm the one who smoked a joint before the show, not you. They fucking kind of...

We did car costumes and they're amazing. So check those out. Shut up and give me murder.com. As a matter of fact, also, you certainly want to do Patreon or actually follow us on social media first at small town murder on Instagram, small town pod on Facebook. Check us out there and follow us and hang out with us and get all the updates for everything. And then as well as that, you certainly want Patreon. Oh, yeah.

You like the show, you'll love Patreon. I'm telling you right now. Patreon.com slash crime in sports. Not crime on sports, not crime on sports. Crime in sports. And it's Patreon, P-A-T-R-E-O-N. Patreon.com slash crime in sports. That is the place we'll get you. You're going to be so happy when you do this. Anybody $5 a month or above, you get...

Oh, yeah.

Which was one of the most popular sports that existed in the 1800s. I can't wait to hear it. We'll talk about what it is, but there's fighting and drugs and fucking... It's insane how these people did this shit. We'll talk about it. I love the old-timey stuff for sports. Then for Small Town Murder, we're going to talk about, in general, exorcisms. And specifically the Devil on Trial documentary, which is about using satanic possession or demonic possession, to be more exact, as a weapon.

Alibi for murder, which is wild or, you know, an excuse for a crime. So we'll talk all about that. That is Patreon dot com slash crime and sports. And you get a shout out at the end of the show, which is right fucking now. Jimmy, hit me with the names of the most wonderful goddamn people who would never, ever, ever, ever, ever either molest us, abuse us or kill us in our entire families. Hit me with them right now.

This week's executive producer, Gary Howard, Angie Williams, Simone Stratton, Janice Hill, Faith Steveson, maybe? Probably Steveson. Steveson? No, it's Steveson, right? I don't know. Philip Bayer. I don't know, Papa Georgopopolis. I'm not sure. Georgopolis. Georgopolis. Georgopolis. Don't ask me. Georgopolis.

And also Immortal Masks for helping out tremendously. Oh, that's great. Getting me a mask for the virtual live show on short notice. You guys are the fucking best. Thank you. It was great. It worked out terrifically. Other producers this week are Liz Vasquez, Peyton Meadows, Allie B. Knits. She knits, James. That's what she does. Allie B. Knit, motherfucker.

That's right. And also Tiffany Gonzalez. You guys are so good to us. Thank you so much. Harrison Evans, Mark, Mark, Ty, Laura, Lauren, go, go, go downs. Oh, Lauren, Lauren, Ryan guns, goons. Maybe it's probably guns. She's a great gal. Yeah. Everybody loves her. Very popular. Big, big fan. Uh,

Kola with no last name. Zero Stars, Clay Goen, Shannon Marie McGovern, Emily with no last name, Ashley Birch, Melissa Personius, Jacqueline Nurkiewicz.

Dalton Sutton, Mimi Moe, Maria Schoen, Allison with no last name, Luke Arthur Ahern, Steve, nope, that's Steph, Monroe, Noah Huffman, Courtney Penn, Kelsey Murphy, Kelly Bauer, Barb Irwin, Madison Miller, Kyle Crocker, Layla Peterson, Nick Myers, Sean Stiber, Cheryl Odorizzi.

Aaron with no last name. Sarah Bennett. Jacob Dockery. Brett Gregory. Tobin Edmonds. M. Willard.

Yep. M, just the letter M. That's their first name. Willard. Yep. JP Edwards, Roxanna Rodriguez, Abigail Cook, Erica with no last name. Dad with no last name. That may be a typo. Tracy Farian, Jodi Collette, M with no last name. Cover block, Stephanie Spivey. Oh, Keely, I think. A? K?

K-I-E-L-E? Is that Keeley? Or Kylie? Kylie, I think. Maybe Keeley. I don't know. Vicky Waters. I keep... As many times as I say it over and over and over again, it's still going to be wrong. Rythe666. SomeRadDame. S-L-E-R. Lolo with no last name. Sheena Bridges. Cole with no last name. Shakira Hendricks. Joel with no last name. Lauren Hunt might be my...

I don't know. I think I know her. Gina would know last name. Shannon would know last name. Amy Bullock. Crystal would know last name. Heidi Farrell. Brenda Morrison. Linda P. Tiffany Sloan. Nanya. Nanya Business. James Zach would know last name. James Murdoch. Selena Marjishin. Marjikin. Uh,

Selena. Thank you. So Sapphire McIntosh, Nancy Rusk, Brandy Devere, Eric Colvard, Shonda with no last name, Tom Christos, Richard Booth, YLP, uh, Christian Hill, Jennifer T. Oh, to Viton, Riffman, uh, destiny Morris free. Just a whole bunch of ease. Bobby Pressimore, uh,

Kate Bashford, Bashford, Money Mad Right, Shelby Russo, Katie with no last name, Tabitha Dabrowski, Chris Wilmes, Nathan Garland, Jeff Pede, Jimmy D, Will Langdon, Brittany, Brittany Beresky, Kimberly Morrison, Andrew R, Brooke Burge, I think, Jennifer Starr, Andrea Orgel, Orgel,

Mary Gibbs, Crystal Terry, Carrie Jo Moto, Sylvia C., Janelle, Janelle Stevens. Fascinating way of spelling Janelle. Sophia, Sophia, J-O-N-E-L. Wow. That's Janelle, right? Or Jonnell. It's got to be. It's got to be Janelle. Janelle, Jonnell. Jonnell? I don't know. I've never heard of that as a name, but I don't fucking know. That's a terrible name.

Thank you for your money, Jonnell, but you... Jonnell. Please have people call you Janelle, because that Jonnell is fucking us all up. It doesn't matter what the gender is. It doesn't matter. Janelle is what you got to go by. You're going by Janelle, Holmes. I'm sorry. It's happening. It's happening.

Kelsey Weston. Bree with no last name. Presley with no last name. Victoria Manny. Deanna Snyder. Mike Dustman. Stephanie. Holy what? La Junesse? Yeah. La Junesse? L-A-G-L-A-J-E-U-N-E-S-S-E. What is that? Wow. La Junesse, right? I don't know. Maybe it's Portuguese because we don't. La Junesse. We can't figure it out. Oh, it's probably sexy. Julie Gere. Gary Prokop. Yeah.

I want, if that's not the rapper, oh, fuck.

Tony Arrington, Jennifer Thompson, Sarah Tremazzo, Tracy McDonald, Elizabeth McManus, B.R. Kelly, Nancy with no last name, Katie Holly, or Hale, Stephen, Stephen Cooley, Hannah Juergens, Tammy Stetson, Kenji Johnson, Kathy Garcia, Barbara Johnson, Cammie and Alan, Sam Struthers, Adrian Jensen, both of them. Cammie and Alan? I've heard of getting Cammie on your side, and I've heard when you get Alan on your side, but not both of them.

Great people. Jesus. Dom McCoy, Andrea Johnson, Kim Sansoni, Alicia Cromer, Agenda, Glenda. Hey. Glenda. There's an L. There you go. Jackie Ayers, Sherry would know last name, Sierra Smith. Oh, you. Oh,

Thomas Goer, Americanized Canadian. All right, good for you. Jodster or Jodster. Elizabeth Edwards. Donna Schenkel. Fanny McPhee. Madison Orr. Susan Grokner. Claire N. Gary Prokop. I said that. Danielle Traylor. Craig, did he get two? He must have. Hey, either way. Craig McAvana. You're an angel, Gary. We love you, Gary. Thank you so much. You're the best. Gary Prolaps. We like you. Suzanne Grokner. I think I said that. Yeah.

Craig McCavana, Mackenzie Bell, Catherine Matamoros, TJ Anderson, Jessica Wagner, or maybe just Wagner, Kelsey Gibbs-Fera. Maybe she's a composer and we don't know. Yeah.

Maybe she's Hitler's favorite composer. We're not sure. She's a contractor for fucking the Kremlin. Daniel Childs, Chrissy Shukra, C-Z-U-C-H-R-A, what? I see a C-Z and I'm immediately gone. Shukra.

I don't know what to do. Martha with no last name. Jason Mullen. Sarah Moffitt. Jules with no last name. Sue Ann Cronenbold. Travis with no last name. Nauftee. Anna Ross. Emily Palmer. Allison Hertzler. Chelsea Gonzalez. Stephen Grant. It's just Steve Grant. I don't know why I got so formal with it. I probably was Steve. Mr. Stephen Grant.

Sierra Cruz. Megan with no last name. Ryan with no last name. Michelle Cazaglio. Savannah Harris. Heather Murray. Heather Irvine also. Jesus, two Heathers back to back. Brian Alexander. Hannah with no last name. Bea Waller. Bea Waller. Amber Green from Israel. Thank you, Amber. Erica Disque. Disque.

Erica, you're the best. Samuel Harshbarger, Faux Show, Jackson Whitney, Stephanie, oh boy, Skak, Sklak, Shlak, Shia Katano, Princess D, Sydney Yeager, Tara R, Angelique Toonley-Robinson, Jada Powell-Thompson, Elizabeth Jones, That's Jada Powell-Smith to you, Jimmy. Sorry.

I like to keep her name out of my mind. Yeah, yeah. That's the point. Faith Nowlin, Stacey Salois, Gerardo with no last name, Brennan Miller, and Oliver. Rico Suave himself? Hold on. You skipped over very quickly that Rico Suave is giving us money. Okay.

Thank you, Rico. Sorry. Great. Sweetheart. But you guys are the best, and we can't do this without you. The list grows every week, and you exhaust me, and I appreciate it.

Thank you, everybody, so much for what you do for us and what you've done for us and what you will continue to do for us if you feel like it. Thank you for everything. We appreciate the fuck out of everything you do. You want to follow us on social media, shut up and give me murder.com has a drop-down menu with links to all that shit. Keep coming back every week. And until next week, everybody, it's been our pleasure. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

If you like Small Town Murder, you can listen early and ad-free now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen early and ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.

Dracula, the ancient vampire who terrorizes Victorian London. Blood and garlic, bats and crucifixes. Even if you haven't read the book, you think you know the story. One of the incredible things about Dracula is that not only is it this weird,

wonderful snapshot of the 19th century, but it also has so much resonance today. The vampire doesn't cast a reflection in a mirror. So when we look in the mirror, the only thing we see is our own monstrous abilities. From the host and producer of American History Tellers and History Daily comes the new podcast, The Real History of Dracula.

We'll reveal how author Bram Stoker raided ancient folklore, exploited Victorian fears around sex, science, and religion, and how even today we remain enthralled to his strange creatures of the night. You can binge all episodes of The Real History of Dracula exclusively with Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus and The Wondery App, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.