#537 - The Ballad Of Bambi - Nixonville, South Carolina
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This week, in Nixonville, South Carolina, when a brutal double-killing happens inside of a nice home to nice people, everyone thinks it's a local serial killer, but then they eventually find the real killers. At least that's what they think. Welcome to Small Town Murder. ♪♪♪

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder. Yay! Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you so much for joining us today on another wild, crazy, insane downhill adventure that we know as Small Town Murder. We have a really wild story for you today.

Don't turn it off if you think the story's done, because there is a twist coming that is a punch right in the face. It's wild stuff today. We'll get into that. First of all, though, head over to shutupandgivememurder.com. Get your tickets for the virtual live show.

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This week, what you're going to get for crime and sports, we're going to talk about that Vince McMahon documentary. Yeah. And especially some crazy things that happened in that documentary. Specific things that are just blowing my mind still. I can't get them out of my head. Then for Small Town Murder, we are going to do part two of Ted Bundy's psychological assessment from 1976 because...

One part wasn't enough. He's still got a lot of pictures to go through, and those pictures were the most interesting thing in the world, hearing his picture interpretations. Crazy stuff. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports is where you get all of that. Now, disclaimer time. It's a comedy show, everybody. It is. We are comedians.

murder is going to happen. It's right there in the title. So if we didn't give you murder, you'd be really upset listening to the show. What am I listening to? Yeah. But the thing is, you say, how do you make murder and comedy go together real easily? You just don't be a dick about it. And it comes out real easy. That's all. There's nothing funny about an actual murder, but the stuff around it is so crazy that it's kind of funny. Sometimes when a murderer says, I think I can get away with this. If I just do a, B and C. Nope. Nope. You're dumb. You're too dumb to get away with it. So,

That's what I'm talking about right there. What we don't do, what we go out of our way not to do, we don't make fun of the victims or the victim's family. Why, James? Because we're assholes. But? But we're not scumbags. See how that works? It's super simple. You just don't be a dick and it's super easy. That said, I think it's time everybody to sit back. Let's all clear the lungs. What do you say here? And let's all shout. Shut up and give me murder.

Let's do this, everybody. Okay. Let's go on a trip, shall we? Let's go. We are going to South Carolina. Okay. We're going to Nixonville, South Carolina. Where is that? It's in like kind of eastern South Carolina down by Myrtle Beach there. Oh, yeah, yeah. It is not exactly a town in itself. It's an area. It's one of those things. It's an area. It's Nixonville, but the stats for it are from other places. It's very complicated. So it is about 20 minutes to Myrtle Beach. So it's right there.

Two hours and 15 minutes to Somerville, which was our last South Carolina episode, which was Murder Moves In, which that was crazy. That was when the two women met in rehab. And then the one moved in and it turned into a mess here. Now it's in Horry County, R-O-H-H-Y, like Robert Horry, the famous NBA sixth man. R-O-H-H-Y. Yeah. I'm sorry. R-O-H-H-Y.

H-O-R-R-Y. I went dyslexic on everybody for a minute there. Yeah, that was fascinating. Wow. Area code is 843. The motto here, much like the Raiders, committed to excellence. You bet they are. Yes, they are. Hopefully this town turns out better than the Raiders have for the last 40 years or so. Yeah, it's not bad.

It hasn't been great. A little bit of history of this town here, a little bit. It was originally, it's very isolated. There's rivers and swamps all around it, and then the ocean on the far east side of it. So it's essentially surrounded by water. So back in the day when there wasn't

bridges and things like that. Basically, these people had to survive in here on their own. You know what I mean? It was it. So no outside world help. And they actually used to call the county the Independent Republic of Ori. Like the people used to call it that. It's like an island? No, it's in the middle of some swampland, but there's so much shit around it. Swamps and rivers and water, basically. So the county is named after the revolutionary war hero, Peter Ori.

who was born here in 1743. And they put a big bronze statue up of him in 2012. Because you could have put a statue up of anybody. No one knows what that guy looks like. You know what Peter Ori looks like from 1743? No. Imagine a little bit off of Robert Ori. That's it. Robert Ori with a powdered wig on. That's what I picture at this point. So shooting threes. Shooting clutch threes in a conference championship game.

So they put up this big thing, this big bronze statue here. It's got a stone base. It cost the town $16,200 to do this, which I assume is probably pricey for a small town. I guess everything else there was already done. It's all perfect. What do we do? The population has increased more than fourfold since 1970.

So it's going up a lot because Myrtle Beach got more popular. South Carolina as a state got more popular. It's become a real destination for, like, retired people and second-home people. You know what I mean? Because it's in the middle of nowhere and it's quiet, but you can drive 20 minutes to Myrtle Beach. So it's a lot of resorts and stuff there. Famous people from here, only one. Vanna White is from Horry County. Yeah.

Is that right? Yeah, that little accent that comes through, that's where it's from. From time to time, yeah. From time to time. So reviews of this town. By the way, remember when she tried to act? That was funny. Just turn the letters. It didn't work. You're the best there is. You're the top of your game there. Acting not so much.

Just do it. It's job security. That job's not going anywhere for 40 fucking years. No, she had it forever. Yeah, it's not exactly like Whitney Houston acting, you know, like where she was like a giant hit. It was better for her. Just rock out those letters and be...

Enjoy your house. Count your money. You're doing great. I'll trade jobs with you in a heartbeat. For sure. Who wouldn't? She doesn't even have to turn them anymore. She touches them now, for Christ's sake. She was in video games. She was in everything. So reviews of this town. Here's five stars. I really like my community. I have been here all my life. The only downside is it takes people time to get used to outsiders.

Any town where they refer to other people as outsiders, I'm a little worried. It's a little worrisome, you know? Yeah. Outsiders. What are you talking about? I also hate the amount of shooting that goes on. Because it's secluded, people shoot. It's very close to the beach, which is a plus. It's very close to the beach. Let a few rounds on it. I was going to say, you just...

You wear your swim trunks and your tactical vest outside when you go out there. Here's four stars. I've lived in Horry County for several years, and it's been an overall good experience since I've lived here. Horry County has many good public schools and also has very affordable housing developments and as well as amazing tourist attractions. Oh, they went with the and also and as well together. And and as well. Also a two.

Three stars. Yeah. What if you don't want to do any of those things, though? What if you're not 12?

What if you're not 12 or 75? What about if you're anywhere in between there? Do it anyway. There are shows like the Alabama Theater and Medieval Times Dinner Theater and many more. Oh, yeah. What's the art and culture scene around there? Well, we got a Medieval Times. Oh, okay. That says a lot. However, these things are so expensive to use. The Medieval Times costs $36.95 performing children 12 and under. So apparently...

$36.95 for children 12 and under? That seems a bit steep. It's a business, though, and we don't get to decide what the business charges. No. Yeah. I don't think. No. We have to do that for your stupid opinions, by the way. Medieval times in this area and figure out this deal. Yeah, find out what's happening there. The cost of attractions in Horry County makes it difficult for families to enjoy with reasonable expectations. Mm-hmm.

Okay, and here is three stars. I've lived in Horry County for 18 years, and it's a great community, but all things have their drawbacks. Horrible traffic in the summer. Gee, by the beach, it's shocking. Can you imagine? Yeah. I expected the beach to be quiet in the summer. No one comes here. What a drag. Too many home developments, and government positions are held by friends.

Which if you've seen the Murdoch murders, any stuff on there, absolutely. That's how shit works there. It's who you know and who's your friend. That's how people get jobs in Horry County. Say in a job interview, one person has a four year degree and a great amount of experience. And the other person is your friend with no degree and no experience. We get it. We get what you're saying. I don't know if you know how nepotism works, Jim. Let me explain it to you.

Say you're in a job interview. And they go on. They really push it across the finish line and say, in Horry County, the friend would be hired. We, I think so. That's surprising. I expected the guy with the degree to get it. I don't know. And then it says, explain not just that it exists, but how it works. The nuts and bolts of it, really. Got to break down the nuts and bolts of this shit, man.

That's the greatest thing I've ever heard. That is incredible. Holy shit. And then in all caps, completely unfair. Yeah. Yeah. This person did not get the county job they were looking for. Two stars. We've always loved Myrtle Beach, but Horry County is letting the hoodlums take over the grandstand. Damn it. Not the hoodlums in the grandstand. With their loud jacked up trucks racing their engines all night long and blowing their air horns. It's a shame.

And I can't even do anything about it because they're dad's best friends with the cops. And see what happens is in a job interview. It's his county commissioner. I don't know if you know this, but in this town, since his father knows the guy. God, Jesus Christ. One star here. Horry County is a good old boy county. There you go. Crime ridden. Nothing but bars and strip joints. No family oriented at all.

No, no family oriented at all. That's not a good way. No, not at all. If you want to party, I guess you might like it, but still I would not recommend it if

If you want to party, I guess. Oh, if you want to go to strip clubs and bars. Yeah. Well, yeah, because it's a tourist summer beach destination. I have lived many places all over the country. Husband was military. And South Carolina, more specifically Horry County, is the one state I have not, in all caps, not one good thing I can say, I can think of to say about it.

Nobody ever told her if you can't think of anything nice to say. You did say there are strip clubs. There are strip clubs. That's not bad. Population in this little area, from best I could tell, because a lot of these population estimates were like including other towns and Myrtle Beach, and it's like, okay. But the best I can tell is about almost 1,200 people in this area, 1,167. So it's more rural, fewer.

Few more females than males. Median age here is a little bit higher because you're going to get some retirees here. So it's almost 48 years old. It's about 10 years past the national average. The married rate is a little bit lower. Divorce rate is a little bit lower. So people just aren't getting married. So that's good for them. They figured out what they're going to do with themselves. Only 6% of the people here are single parents, which is beneath the –

thing which I think old people and families you're not going to get a lot of single parents there I have here the percentage of households with and without children I found here 75% of households are without children here no children 75% of the households not bad what a dream that's why there's strip clubs and bars everywhere nobody has kids they have time for this shit yeah

Uh, race of this town, about 85% white, 6.6% Hispanic, 3.7% black, 4.2% Asian. So it's spread around a little bit here. Uh, median household income is just above the national average, $73,997. So not bad. Um, the median home prices here too are low. Uh,

Yeah, the regular average home price, median home price is $318,879. Here it's $229,925. Not bad. It's not bad. Higher income, lower housing cost. It's not bad. So some people might be like, well, how do I get here? How do you do it? I don't live 20 minutes from the beach. Well, for you folks, we have for you the Nixonville, South Carolina Real Estate Report. Real Estate Report

Found here, there's a four-bedroom, five-bath. So, T-Bowl, for all your b-holes here. Not bad. 2,225 square feet. Four-bedroom, 2,200 square feet. That's nice. Family house. It's a weird-looking house. The windows are really small, which is just real strange. And it is inside. You've got to completely redo the inside. Okay. All right. It has no kitchen. Okay.

Like, there's a room where a kitchen could be housed, but there is nothing in it that would resemble a kitchen or give away that a kitchen once lived here. And it's just a weird place. It's very outdated. There's fucked up carpet in all the rooms. It's, like, all half torn up and dirty. Gut job. Gut job here. It's a mess. $195,000 for that, though. Worth it. Not bad. Yeah, it's not bad at all. It's a great price for that house. Here is a four-bedroom, three-bath, 2,390-square-foot house. Good.

This is a nice house. It's like that other house except finished. It's done. Done and everything's nice inside. Not too bad at all. It says it's set on nearly a half acre.

And it says the listing says it's priced in all caps far below market value, offering tremendous potential for the savvy buyer willing to invest in some updates. OK, I guess some updates that aren't cosmetic tells me there's like wiring problems or plumbing issues or something like that. You're going to have to do a roof that's fucked up.

And then finally, four-bedroom, four-bath. How much was that? Oh, I'm sorry. That is $265,000. Okay. Still not terrible. That's pretty high. That's beneath the average here. And then a four-bedroom, four-bath, T-bowl for each and every B-hole, 4,592 square feet.

Big house on 1.43 acres. Now you're talking. The house itself is pretty hideous from the outside. It looks like, you know how all the apartment complexes have buildings? It looks like a building from an East Coast apartment complex.

Oh. Like it houses like eight apartment units in it. That's what it looks like. It's really ugly. No charm. No charm. There's 34 pictures and not one of the inside. So what the hell does that tell you? 34? 34, nothing from the inside. Didn't even be

Break the threshold. People don't care about what's inside. What are they looking at? And it's an ugly house, so it's 34 different angles of an ugly house. $890,000 for that, though. Yeah, fucked. No, thank you. Hideous. No way. Things to do here. There's a few. First of all, the world-famous Blue Crab Festival, which sounds delicious. I love a blue crab. That is good shit. This happens on the historic Little River waterfront.

And it's one of the largest festivals held along the Grand Strand every year. Maybe that's what the guy was trying to say. Grand Strand. The hoodlums were taking over. What started as a small gathering along the banks of the intercoastal waterway is now a premier festival that's projected to draw over 50,000 attendees to the area in May. God damn. Shit. The festival features live music, but

That's so good. We won't tell you about any of it. 50,000 people are coming to see shit. You're not going to tell us what it is? They're not even going to hire Nelly. He plays everything. Ludacris isn't going to be here. It's a damn secret.

He's at every county fair there is, for Christ's sake. Yeah, yeah. 50,000 people. There's a kid's zone, 200 arts, crafts, and specialty food and business vendors. Also, you can enjoy amazing local seafood from one of the restaurants. And they have a soft shell crab sandwich that they're pushing as their thing, which sounds goddamn delicious. I'll eat that all the time. So that takes place. It's like a weekend event.

event, two-day weekend event. Also, the Einor, Einor, Einor, A-Y-N-O-R, Einor, Einor, I don't know, Harvest Hoedown. Hell yeah. Let's head to the hoedown, Jimmy. Let's do this. Actual hoedown. That's how it's advertised. They said, we invite you to the most exciting festival that is organized on the third Saturday in every September.

Which is a terrible sentence. That says, of all the festivals organized on the third Saturday in September, this is the best. By far.

At the festivals, you can participate in various events, including arts and crafts, a parade, and of course, quote, entertainment. Doesn't say what it is. Might be a ventriloquist. Might be smash mouth. We have no idea. Something will take your attention. Don't worry. Something will do this here. And then finally, the Beach and Chili Fest. Okay. I like both of those things. But I don't want them together. Okay.

No? I don't want chili at the beach at all. I don't mind. I don't. I just don't want sand in my chili. Also, it's hot. What am I eating? Hot chili in the heat? What the hell? Is this going on in the summertime? I mean, it's at the beach, so I assume so. It will feature two full days of entertainment of sandy chili that you're going to eat.

Two days of chili. Two days of chili. Imagine those porta potties after two days of chili. It's going to be. That's insane. It's going to be apocalyptic in there, including a car show, live music, family fun, chili tastings and special guests. And they talk about it's the world's best chili. Hundreds of flavors and recipes. It's the they have there the 57th annual World Championship Cook Off presented by Bush's Beans.

Oh, Bush is a sponsor. Oh, yeah. It's the centerpiece of the Beach and Chili Fest. That's fascinating that a bean company is sponsoring it, and there is probably an overwhelming amount of people that do not want beans in it. I think they have their own opinion on it, and it's probably pro-chili bean, I would say.

I prefer a chili without beans, personally. But if they're in there, I'll eat that, too. I don't give a shit. I don't care. I don't give a shit, really. The spice is what matters. And if it's there, that's good. If it's a chili dog on a hot dog, get those fucking beans out of there, though. Is that right? That I want no part of. No beans on a hot dog. That's just where they fall off and shit. It's awkward. Yeah. It's a pain in the dick. So they said there's close to 300 professional chili teams.

Teams. Teams, 300 of them that will battle it out for the coveted title and their share of a $75,000 prize purse.

Chili pays, man. Shit. They'll also have a chance. Attendees will have a chance to influence the competition by voting for the People's Choice winner as well. And the festival wraps up Sunday with what's called a Spirited Battle of the Bands competition featuring local school bands. So it's not... You're going to hear 1800 Sousa songs over and over again. Yeah.

Are there 300 different flavors of chili? I don't think there is. I don't think so. I think it's going to be that one tastes a little different than that one. That one tastes exactly like about 60% of these. You couldn't taste 300 chilies, and by 130, you would have no idea which one is which. You wouldn't even know anymore. Your mouth would be so screwed here. So the winning band could receive up to $2,000.

Just make some chili. You make more money. That's what I mean. Get those kids into chili making. Get them going when it's young here. And happy hour is where attendees get a free chili dog between 4.30 and 5.30 p.m. Fuck yeah. I'll take that. But they start out, they have a DJ and music performances, the Kind Keepers Dog Fashion Show. Got to have that. Star performer Stilt Walker will be there. Uh-huh.

some guy walking on stilts, a Chili Awards ceremony, obviously, Myrtle Beach Pelican Splash, whatever the fuck that is. I don't know what that is. The Battle of the Bands is from 12 to 2, and then there's a car show, and then finally a band will be playing Miracle Max and the Pet Monsters. Yep. I don't know what that is. Okay.

Crime rate in this town here, what we're interested in. They don't have the normal crime rates in here, but I found some other shit here. They have an A grade of crime on this one website. That means the rate of assault is much lower than the U.S. average city.

Nixonville is in the 91st percentile for safety, meaning 9% of cities are safer and 91% of cities are more dangerous. Wow. Incredibly safe. Yeah. The rate of assault here, very low. It's 1.297 per 1,000 residents.

And it's very safe here. You have a very low chance of all of these crimes. The A grade means that the rate of murder is much lower than the U.S. average city. Nixonville is in the 86th percentile for safety, meaning 86% of cities are more murdery than them. So there you go. That's the murder, rape, robbery, and assault about Rushmore. You get chili involved, and it's very inviting. When your butthole's burning, boy, anything can happen. Let's put it that way. You've eaten 300 different kinds of chili.

Something in there has got some spices that don't agree with you. Too sore to fight. Too sore to fight. So that said, let's talk about some murder. What do you say here? Okay. Let's start out with some people, shall we? All right. Let's talk about Gloria Diane Mills. That's her name. She'll be Gloria Diane Parker later on. But for now, she's Mills. She's born in 1950. Her first name's Gloria, but she goes by Diane, which is her middle name. But her friends and close family call her Sugar. Okay.

Oh, I was going to say GD. Sugar? GD Mills, goddammit. Sugar. Hey, Sugar. She's born in Spartanburg, South Carolina. Two parents, James and Shirley. She has two brothers and three sisters. So, Jesus, four girls and two boys. That's a...

That's a hell of a house. That's a tough go in there. Now, Diane is going to get married pretty young. She's going to get married when she's about 20 years old to a guy named David Livingston. Now, they're going to have one child together, a daughter named Bambi. That is her real name. Her name is Bambi. They called her that. Bambi Livingston. Later on, she'll be Bambi Bennett, double B.

Is that right? Oh, yeah. We're going to be Bennett for the rest of the time. But for now, she's Livingston. She's born in 1971. Now, somewhere in the 70s, Diane and David get a divorce. OK, they get a divorce here in the late 70s, like early 80s. And they're still working their divorce out when Diane meets a new man at church. Oh, yeah. She's she's big in the Tilly Swamp Baptist Church.

The what? The Tilly Swamp Baptist Church. I got an idea, everybody. Don't put the word swamp in the name of anything you'd like people to go to. How's that? Nope. Not exactly. The Tilly Swamp. Tilly might be the greatest church in the world, but it sounds like it's

Literally, you have to wade through a swamp to get there, which doesn't sound attractive to me. And a ghillie suit is that thing that you put on to simulate being in the swamp, isn't it? I don't know. This is Tilly. T-I-L-L-Y. Tilly, like Stairway to Stardom lady. Sounds too close. Sounds a little close, yeah. The Tilly Swamp Baptist Church, where she meets a man named Charlie Parker.

Yes, Charlie Parker is his name. Charles Edward Parker here. He's born same year as her, 1950. He is born in Conway, which is very nearby here. We've done an episode about Conway before, actually, back in the day. Yeah, it's pretty close to Nixonville. Like a lot of the statistical things will include Conway and Myrtle Beach and Nixonville altogether. So it's in Horry County. And so he's lived in this general area his entire life.

And he likes to hunt and fish and do outdoor stuff. How does Charles feel about being a stepdad? Well, we'll find out about all that here. He's a member and a past master of the Ori Masonic Lodge.

So he's in a little society there. And he's also a member of the Tilly Swamp Baptist Church, deeply religious guy and very, very, very into the religious congregation. And any event that goes on at the church, he is front and center boy right there. Mr. Mr. Religious. And so is she, too. The two of them together are very, very devout people.

We'll say. And from what everybody says, they're devout in the right way where they just treat everybody really nice. They're really nice to everybody and they can't wait to help people. So that's very nice. Now, he also owns Charlie. Charlie owns and operates Mirror Tech, which is a business that he has.

And makes pretty good money off of that. What do they do? I don't know. I assume shit with mirrors or something. Generally, businesses in the South are right on the nose. They literally have like an Inateck or some shit where you don't know what the fuck they make. They're going to tell you what they're doing here. So yeah, MirrorTech. And the way they do it too, like he has a house and the business is sort of on his property. It's about 150 yards from the house.

Yeah. So he's got a bunch of employees that work in there. So he walks to work every day, obviously, just across the yard. And they do well. I mean, he's doing great. We'll talk about her. She'll be working at a school, doing her thing. Now, they get married here, and they have a son named Charlie Parker Jr. Yeah. So we'll have that. Now, everybody likes them. He's a good stepdad, by the way. Doesn't mind Bambi at all. Everything's fine. For now, that is. Yeah.

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And everybody here loves them. They are the type of people that they say, all the townspeople say, they command respect from people because they're- Exemplary. Upstanding people that have no skeletons in their closets or any shit. The people's what they are. They can be judgy because they're good, basically. But they don't judge. They're nice people. Now, 1983, remember Diane's first husband, David Livingston? He dies in 1983. Oh, no.

Dies at a very young age. Yeah, absolutely. Now, Bambi at this point is 12 years old. Her father's dead. That's not good for a 12-year-old. But she inherits about 100 acres and a house from her dad at 12 years old. See you around, Ma. I own no property at 12 whatsoever. I got a place to be. See you around. That's wild.

because not only had her father died, David's father died as well. So Bambi's grandpa died. So all of their – the grandfather died and went to David, and then David died right after that and it all went to Bambi. So she's getting all of that. Diane, at this point, is working as a school secretary with the Horry County School District, and her main hobbies are yard sales and antiquing.

Okay. And crafty shit. She likes crafty stuff, too. Yeah. That's the lady's safe version of gold panning. Yes, it is. You know what I mean? Yeah. Sometimes you'll walk into an antique shop and be like, don't say shit, but that thing's $9.95. It's worth so much more. I could sell that for $30. Yeah. I could sell it on eBay. No, it's, yeah, that is kind of what it is. It's either that or like a casino type of deal. Yeah. Almost. Yeah. Like a penny slot. Yeah.

But you got to purchase it and go home and then start looking, researching it to find out what you really made on this. You have to know ahead of time here. So during the 1980s, now Bambi's dad is dead, so all she's got is her mom and her stepdad at this point. And 100 acres. And 100 acres to spread out. Mom, I'm going to my acreage. Fuck you. And there's a house there, too. It's not even like she'd have to pitch a tent. I'm going to my property. You take out the trash. I got a house. I have my own trash to take out on my property.

So Diane and Bambi are pretty close, though, over the 80s, as you'd expect here. Tuesday B.B., who is one of Bambi's cousins, Tuesday B.B. is her name. Tuesday's her first name? Her first name is Tuesday. Tuesday B.B. I've seen Wednesday, like Adams. I've never seen anyone named Tuesday before. Actually, I think I have. No, I've never heard of it. I think I have one other person I've heard of Tuesday. So she was the maid of honor at Bambi's first wedding.

Bambi will have plenty of weddings, don't you worry. Is that right? Oh, yeah. Bambi is a bit of a mess here. She likes to get married. Bambi's a bit of a bumbler when it comes to the vows. So she's, like I said, the maid of honor at the first wedding, and she said that Bambi and her mother were almost inseparable at that point. She said about the mom, she wouldn't leave her side. The whole family are very well respected, she said. So very nice.

So 1990 comes around and Bambi's going through a divorce. I believe this is her second husband, possibly maybe her first. Not sure. So she at this point going through a divorce and owning 100 acres in a house is a problem.

Because she doesn't want this guy to get any of her inheritance. Right. Her shit. Her shit. So rather than having to sell it or something, she's trying to keep the land away from her husband. So Bambi deeds the property, including the house, to her mother in 1990. Brilliant. And by the way, this is where the family's going to live in this house on this acreage. Really? Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's where they're going to live, set up their business. There's, hey, Bambi, we're going to use your shit, which is.

That's a weird power dynamic between parent and child if the child owns the home. If the child's net worth is more than their parent? Yeah, that has to be real weird. It's my house, goddammit. I'll do what I want. You're 13. Don't talk to me like that. Well, you don't talk to me like that in my own house. I'll call the constable and have you removed. Yeah, that's so fucking crazy.

So she's going to do that. Bennett here, Bambi said later on that Diane persuaded her to deed the property before she divorced her husband. Bennett said she agreed, Bambi does, but thinking it would keep her husband from claiming half the property in the divorce. So Bambi also said her mother refused to return the property to her when asked to.

Because after the divorce was fine, she said, okay, deed the property back to me. And she said, well, can't really do that right now. What'd she do? She said, why can't you do that right now? She mortgaged it. It's got some mortgage on it right now. You bastard. You mortgaged my inheritance. Thank you. What the fuck? Shit.

So she also said her mother sold a few acres of different parcels of acreage of the property as well without her knowledge. What the hell? She wasn't real happy about that. And yeah, county records show that Diane had sold several parcels of the property since 1990. So whenever she needs a little money, she'll sell off a parcel. It started out as 100 acres. It's now about 67 acres.

So she sold off a third of the shit off. And there's an outstanding mortgage on that 67 acres. So now there's less land and it's not really yours anymore. Good news, bad news. Less land to pay taxes on. Good news, bad news. You also got to pay homeowners insurance. There's also a mortgage now. Now, Bambi...

After the 90s, she will have been married three times and has four children, two from one marriage, two from another. And one of the marriages produced nobody. So seems like in the around the turn of the century here, 1999, 2000, she seems to only have about two kids living with her.

That was her sons that were born in 91 and 93 after she got remarried. So young fellows. Yeah, young kids here. Diane at one point in 1999 tried to get Bambi's kids from her. What? Yes, she went to court.

To try to get the kids from her daughter. Her grandkids. So she sought custody of the two grandsons. Not the other two kids. From her daughter here. And yeah. This was. And her. By the way. Bambi's third husband. Who's the father of these daughter. Of the grandsons. His name is Charlie also. How's he doing? He's evidently not so great either. Not so great either here. The family court though allowed Bambi to keep her children.

To take children away from a mother, especially if you're not the father, is very difficult. They have to really be, it has to be abusive. They have to have no food. Like, it has to be. Yeah, you got to make a really strong case of neglect to be able to look at them. Oh, God. Like, they're in danger. So, in court documents, Diane said the boys lived with her at the time, and she cared for them for three years before she sought custody. Okay.

So she said for her, it's just a matter of they're with me anyway. I need to be able to do things and have power. They're with me. I'd like the tax benefits. The tax benefits. Not only that, but also I think the doctor rights and all of those things. I mean, there's decisions that you have to be have custody to make, even if you want to travel with them or something. You know what I mean? Stuff like that. So she said in an affidavit, I am very concerned for the safety of my grandsons.

That's not good. She said, I consulted an attorney about getting legal custody of my grandsons because I was afraid that Bambi's behavior was becoming more erratic. Oh, no. Yeah. She said that she had to quit her job at Conway Middle School to take care of the children full time as well. She's like, I'm doing this. I should also get custody. And then in a separate affidavit filed by Charlie Parker Sr., Bambi's stepdad, he said that Bambi had a serious drug problem.

And that he and his wife had tried to get Bambi help, and she's been admitted to two drug programs in the past, and they don't take. How about that? So she's erratic, she's unstable, and she's on drugs, and we can't get her to stop, so we'd like to take care of the kids. Which is actually... Yeah, I would think so. Yeah, probably. That would be the only thing that would be our heroine. I mean, one of those two. It has to be one of the big ones. Yeah. Yeah. So she's... I mean, this...

It sounds like the grandparents give a shit about the kids. Sure do. And want to take care of them and make sure that they're okay. A lot of grandparents would be like, I don't know, that's her fucking problem. We're living our golden years. Leave me alone. But they're not into that at all. He said in the affidavit that when Bambi used drugs, her behavior becomes very erratic. She screams and curses with no thought that the children are right there and hearing everything that comes out of her mouth.

Okay. Again, the drugs are a thing, but you're allowed to curse around your kids. That's not a... Yeah, you don't get to tell freedom of speech and stuff. Well, I mean, yeah, they're your kids. Outside of hitting them or molesting them, you can pretty much do whatever you want with them. As long as you feed them and give them a house to live in, I think it's fine. In some places, encourage that hitting part. Yeah, yeah. So in her response, Bambi says that she's not hooked on prescription drugs, as her mother said.

Oh, her mom said she's been hooked on painkillers, I guess. She said, I was diagnosed with fibromyalgia syndrome in 1994 and I'm only on prescription medications that are doctor prescribed. What does it mean that you're not whacked out on painkillers all the time? I mean, that's,

Most painkillers are doctor prescribed. So a lot, a lot of pill addicts say that they're prescribed. You're taking a shitload of them. Yeah. But the doctor said I can't said I can't. I did go to seven different doctors to get a bunch of different prescriptions. The doctors all said I should take the, they all told me to take two. So I listened to all of them. I took 14.

Yeah. So she denied the children live with her mother for three years. She said her mother offered to help her with the boys because she was alone at the time and they moved freely between her home and her mother's home. The boys did anyway. Bambi said that because her mother was helping her, she had the child support check sent directly to her mother as a thanks for helping me with my children, not because they were living with her.

So she helps so much that you'd send the child support checks directly to her. That sounds like more than just. Yeah, it's a lot of help. That sounds like a shitload of help there, I would say. So Bennett here accused her mother of only caring about her sons, meaning Bambi's sons, but not about Bambi's daughters. Don't give a shit about them. Only the boys. Aren't they on their own?

Who? The girls, the daughters. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She doesn't have to. I mean, she gives a shit about him, but she doesn't. She's not focused on them because the boys need help. I think. But she's saying that, like, the girls are in the same boat, but she gives a shit about the boys. So that's all there is here. So that's that's fucking like a paycheck or some shit. I.

I guess that's what she's... I don't know what she's saying. Either way, I don't know how that would matter in court, whether she cares more about the sons. That doesn't make any sense at all. The fact is she's trying to care for them. So somehow, through all of this, Bambi and Diane keep kind of coming back to each other, though. They fought in court multiple times, but they end up always kind of... When Bambi is down on her luck or she comes back and needs to live with them for a while, they are always okay with it. So...

Yeah, that's a thing. That's part of it. So, yeah, I mean, you have to help, I guess, and especially them. That's what families do for each other generally, I guess. And if you're going to be Mr. Fucking Christian, then back it up. Yeah, yeah. You know, fucking tend to your flock, motherfucker. What do you want? Yeah, I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, that's true. So 2005 here, Bambi is still married to Charlie Bennett, even though they haven't been together for years. Okay. It's been like five, six years, but they're still technically married.

So we go to Alabama. Yeah, that's tough. So that's her third husband, Charlie, like we said. And she, though, has moved on from Charlie and has a new boyfriend she lives with. Nice. And this name is a name we've heard before. It came up in our shout outs. And it also is a very popular murderer name for some reason. Several murderers have this name. Richard Gagnon.

Is that right? G-A-G-N-O-N. Dickie Gagginon. Gagnon, Dick. That's what we got here. Dickie Gags here. 1973 he's born. He's two years younger than Bambi. And they've been dating for about two years now.

She loves him. Anytime you want to push that paperwork through on the divorce, it'd probably be great. Probably pull that trigger pretty quick here. But no. Yeah, they've been dating. Their relationship started after he got a job working for her parents at MirrorTech. Oh, I see. So that's how they meet. You meet a girl who lives on the property of your job. That's pretty easy to do.

This town really is into the nepotism up to including pussy. Now, if you work here, one of the perks is you do get to fuck my daughter. See, if there's a job interview, you got to fuck the boss's daughter. You got to fuck the boss's daughter. You do a good job, she'll date you and you get the job. You're hired. That's how it works. Otherwise, she's going to find somebody else to hire.

So she's probably going to fuck her dad's friend. Yeah. So at this point now, he ends up kind of moving in with them. So we have Charlie and Diane, the parents. We have Bambi and Dickie Gags. Right. And two of her kids at some point. The boys. Yes. Not the girls. No, no. The boys are gone now. Now we have the girls, by the way. Now we have the girls back. The boys are now with her husband from her second marriage in Texas. Right.

Holy. And her daughters are here with Charlie and Diane and whatever. She gives a shit about the daughters now. I guess the Socastee area, I can't remember how you say that. We did an episode about it. But that area is where Charlie Bennett, the ex-husband, lives or soon-to-be ex-husband lives. That's where the daughters are. So sons are in Texas. Daughters live with their father close by. Close by. Essentially.

Now, have Bambi or Dickie Gags ever been in trouble? Yes. Let's find out. Well, actually, Bennett has no criminal record somehow. Is that right? Somehow Bambi Bennett's managed to float through life having some questionable decisions and... Functioning pill addict. Not getting arrested at least. She's not driving. She's doing whatever. So that's in South Carolina where she's born and raised.

Dickie Gags, though, he's got several convictions from other places we'll talk about here. Petty larceny in 1991. I think he was 17 at the time, too. So, I mean, I'll give him that. He went to Florida at some point here. He was charged with driving under the influence in Florida in 1994. But that's just how you get...

hammered. That's just how you get Florida citizenship though. Yeah. They don't let you DUI there. You are hammered. Absolutely. I feel like you can't get on the voting roll or anything like you can't like, you know, get on any of the local things without at least one thing blowing this. Yeah. You're going to do a few more drinks for your deal. You're a little low son. That's

The breathalyzers in the cars there, they only start if you blow a .07. You got to blow a .07. That's how they know that you're comfortable driving. So they want you to...

So, yeah, he drove out under the influence in 94. Then he is charged with and this is a lot more serious in 1999 in Pennsylvania. So that's going, by the way, all over the fucking place. New York, Florida, Pennsylvania, South Carolina. And 1999, he is arrested and charged and convicted of aggravated assault on a police officer in 1999. Aggravated. That's a that's a charge right there. Yeah.

That is big time. And he is sentenced in that case to, you sir may fuck off, two to four years in prison. So apparently though, that was in 99. He's out by 2003 because that's when he meets Bambi and they start hooking up. So that's the history of them. Now Bambi and Dickie Gags, by 2005...

There's been problems with the parents that we'll talk about. Sure. So they said, fuck this. We're not living in this house with you people. Yeah. Bambi and Dickie Gags and the kids when they come over live in a tent in the woods. A tent in the woods. That's the option. That's the option. They are homeless people on their own property, essentially. So a tent. They live in a fucking tent. That says a lot right there.

In the woods. So Bambi lives in the woods. That's pretty fun. Yep. And there's problems here. One guy, George Carrick, he works for the Parkers at Mirror Tech. He said that Dick and Dickie Gags and Bambi lived with the Parkers but were kicked out of the house.

And living in the tent behind the home for a couple months here. So they only visit the house to shower and eat when the parents are away. So if they go somewhere, they come in and shower and get some food and then scurry back out into the woods. We're leaving. Clean yourselves up. We'll be back, so make it fast. I'm surprised they don't just hang a hose from a hook outside and they're like, there you go. There's your shower. That's what it seems like is going on here.

So apparently this Carrick guy, the employee, said that Charlie Parker Sr. and Bambi Bennett had spats back and forth sometimes, most of the time over the acreage. This I should own this part and you should own that. This is mine. This is yours. It's been 15 years and they're still fighting about land. Yeah.

Which is interesting here. They have there's troubles also, obviously, with child custody fights that'll leave a little acrimony in your relationship. And so, you know, it's all that kind of thing. January of 2005, Dickie Gagnon is fired from his job at Mirror Tech.

By her father. By her father. So to fire a man who lives literally at the fucking office. Lives in the woods outside the office who is dating your stepdaughter. You got to be a real fuck up. He's certainly fucked up. Nepotism wouldn't even help this guy. I mean, good Lord.

Good old Murtaugh style fucking nepotism won't even help him. That is wild. So now April 2005, the entire region is on pins and needles on edge because there's a guy named Stephen Stanko on the loose. Oh, I believe we've talked about Stephen Stanko before. He is the subject of a nationwide manhunt for

And is being sought for a sexual assault and a killing in Muriel's inlet and a killing in Conway. So double murder, rapist. Close by. Very close by. Yeah, one's right here and one's on the other side of it. So that's right there. He is charged with the murder and the deaths of Laura Ling and Henry Lee Turner. And with the rape and assault and an attack on a 15-year-old girl before he slit her throat.

Good guy. He attacked and raped a 15-year-old and slit her throat. He's a very, very dangerous person out here. Absolutely. And there's no rhyme or reason to it. He's like the Night Stalker. He's like Richard Ramirez. He'll kill a couple. He'll kill a 15-year-old. If an 80-year-old is there, he'll kill her. He doesn't care. They weren't even related. No, no. This was separate incidents. One was in Conway. One was in another town. So they were in different goddamn towns.

So that's everybody is like doors locked, information on the news coming up. Did they catch this guy yet? Because everybody's terrified. If you have a teenage girl, she is locked up in the house. Crazy time. So April 12th, 2005, it's about 7 a.m. And man, Charlie Parker must go to work early because by 7 a.m., he's so late that his employees are coming to the house to look for him.

7 a.m.? 7 a.m. He's so late that they're coming over. What the fuck time does he get there? So he comes to the house. It's George Carrick, the employee, and Charlie Parker Jr. who works there as well.

They go to the house. They walk across the yard, basically, to the house there. And they are trying to figure out what's going on. So Carrick said that they went into the house, and right away they looked down the hallway. And in the entrance to the bedroom, Carrick said he saw Diane Parker on the floor at the entrance to the bedroom.

And Charlie Parker was on the bathroom floor when they went to check closer to the mother to see if she would to Diane to see if she was alive or OK. They saw Charlie in the bathroom laying on the floor and there's blood everywhere. Of course.

They have holes in them. It's not great. It's disturbing. So Carrick says, quote, Little Charlie was going nuts with his dad, so I told him to get out. It was too late. Yeah, his boy found him. He found him, and he said he was trying to, like, revive him, and it was not. It wasn't. We were well beyond the point of reviving. Shit. He said, it's too late, man. You're just, you know, don't come in here anymore. Go outside. So he called 911 on his cell when they went outside.

As they're leaving, they noted broken glass in the door from the kitchen leading into the kitchen from outside. The whole glass door is shattered. So Carrick, though, the employee said, at the time, I assume Charlie, meaning old man Charlie...

Must have locked himself out and had to break the window to get in at some point. So he was like, oh, that must be what happened here. But it's not. So they call. Tyler Canes comes. He shows up. The Horry County police officer, which sounds like a South Carolina police officer, Tyler Canes. He was called to the home at eight fifty three a.m. Or at least that's when he got there.

So that's a lot of time to go by. He secured this crime scene, waited for investigators. Now they found Diane, like we said, shot in the entryway to the bedroom, to the master bedroom. Charlie Parker Sr. in a nearby bathroom. Diane was shot twice in the chest, once in the left arm.

Gunshots. And left there. Yes. She also had a fractured collarbone and bruises all over her, by the way. Beat up. So she got beat to shit. Probably show me where it is, show me where it is, is what the cops are thinking. And she maybe wouldn't, and so he shot her or whatever, however it was. She's found lying on her back there. Charles Parker Sr. shot twice in the abdomen and once in the face.

So somebody really gets the job done. They do three shots for each person. He was found in the bathroom. There were eight gunshots total fired inside the home based on the nine millimeter shell casings and bullet holes found. So eight shots, six of them connected, which is a pretty good ratio here. Police find no cash inside the home.

And no evidence that the Parkers fired any guns back at the intruder. Seems to be all from the same 9mm. All the shells, all the casings on the ground are all from the same gun. We're taking rounds. We're not returning fire. Not returning fire. Yeah, this seems like an early morning surprise here. They also, they figure that the broken glass is how the intruders came in the house because it shattered. There is a keepsake box on a dresser.

inside the master bedroom that was clearly rummaged through and also there were papers inside a woman's boot found on the bed

As well. So they were originally inside a boot and the boots nearby and the papers are spread out on the bed as well. So maybe like somebody was going looking for cash and they said maybe they hide them in their boots. Oh, there's something and pulled it out and it was paper and they were like, fuck this and threw it down. Something like that. Police find, though, Diane's purse and Charlie's wallet on the bed with this paperwork.

Yeah. So sitting right there, which is odd. They're both 54 years old, both dead. They say they're trying to figure it out sometime between 830 between the evening of April 11th and 730 a.m. The next morning they were killed. They're not trying to figure that out.

So now Carrick, the employee for Mirror Tech, said he spoke briefly with Bambi Bennett when she and Dickie Gags arrived a few hours later, he said. Sure, sure. And Carrick said he was trying to console Bambi, telling her that her mom did not suffer. So she didn't suffer. She was killed right away. It was very quick, probably, and whatever. So the killings immediately followed.

It's Stanko. Oh, this is nuts. Everybody goes, holy shit. I mean, lock it down even harder. He's here now. Absolutely. I mean, fear radiates throughout this community immediately. He got another one here. And so that was crazy. But that same day of April 12th, where the bodies are found, Stanko is found in Georgia. Oh, wow.

And evidence says that he probably wasn't in South Carolina earlier today. Okay. So they don't think it's him, which is a problem because they were really like, we got it. It's this guy. Fuck him. And then they found him like, he's pretty far away. He could have got there though. But then they found some evidence that he wasn't. And they're like, well, shit, that doesn't work. So now sometime before the funeral. Now this is between the deaths of Charlie and Diane and their funerals.

Bambi makes attempts to sell about 100 acres of property at this point. They're not even in the ground yet. But I guess everything goes to her. She had inherited it, needed it to her mother. And he said, I guess she contacted a real estate broker indicating an interest in selling the property quickly.

I want to unload it right now. So, um, also, uh, Dickie gags here called his mother after the murders to ask her advice of who do you think, maybe you probably know more about this than me, mom. Who do you think is going to get control of the property now that they're dead? Bambi will have control, right? Like he's working it out like that. Um, and then, uh,

The funny thing is Bambi, they asked Bambi about it. Bambi said, well, she only called the real estate agent to share news about the deaths. She wasn't trying to sell anything. Meanwhile, the real estate agent was like, do you want to sell 100 acres quick? I tell a lot of people all about my business. Everybody. Everybody.

So Bambi ends up getting all of it, everything. Really? Yep. Jennifer Parker, who is Diane's sister-in-law, said that Bambi received all the property owned by her mother and stepfather after their debts. I don't know why none of that went to... Junior doesn't get shit. Didn't get ugots, which is crazy, right? It's all Bambi. She said that Bambi received a total of about $700,000 from a trust fund as well, in addition to the property.

Bambi got paid. Bambi got paid. Now she's got 100 acres, a house, a business, and $700,000. She's doing great. I mean, you retire there, right? That's done. Shit, let the business do its thing. That's that. So Jennifer Parker there, the sister-in-law of Diane, said Bambi got it all. And Parker, I guess, was in control. Jennifer Parker was in control of the estate up until this point. They had her manage shit. So then she said she had to give it all over to Bambi.

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Credit Karma, your partner in building a brighter financial future. Credit Builder Plan is serviced by Credit Karma Credit Builder and requires a line of credit and savings account provided by Cross River Bank member FDIC. So Jennifer also says that there was a lot of anger between Bambi and her parents prior to the deaths.

Because the cops are talking to everybody. And she says, I mean, Bambi and her mom were fighting for the last 15 years, essentially. And she got everything? And she gets everything. So the police interview several people who place Bambi and Richard at the Parker's home the night before the bodies were found. Several people said they went to the house the night before. And they might have been killed the night before.

So they said that it's very interesting. They said forensic evidence was found at the Parker's home that would provide reason to believe that they, Bambi and Richard, were present at the time the Parkers were shot as well. Oh. Then they find four fresh blood droplets collected from the home where the murders occurred. From these droplets here, they send that off to develop a DNA profile. The profile doesn't match either of the victim's.

Or Dickie Gagnon. Uh-oh. But they are able to determine this particular blood. All four of these drops belong to one person. So they enter the profile of the unknown individual into the database in case it comes up. She'll be a hit. So people say...

Here that Richard was mad at the Parkers. That's what all the cops are getting from everybody. Gagnon is mad. Gagnon is pissed off here. Yes. One of the people here said that Dick was asked to leave the Parkers home a few weeks before they were killed and go live in the woods. And Jennifer Parker, the sister-in-law, said, I think they were afraid of him.

And they did say Jennifer Parker did say that Gagnon doesn't receive anything from the estate, which I don't know why he would. Who who will shit to their daughter's boyfriend? Some dipshit. Some dipshit who just got out of prison and we fired. Yeah. So one guy employed by Coastal Glass named James Moore, he said that Richard Gagnon was, quote, real angry at the Parkers because of ongoing issues involving land and child custody.

Now, MirrorTech was a subcontractor for Coastal Glass at the time. It's definitely glass. And this guy said about Dickie Gagnon, he was just real shaky. He was really, really angry.

So this is in the weeks leading up. It's none of his business. None of this shit matters. You're not married to anybody here. You're not married here. You have no say or title or claim to any of this shit. You have no kids with anybody here. And apparently, unless they let you live here, you live in a fucking tent. That's the best you can provide for yourself. So, Jesus Christ. He said at one point here, Eric Sides...

of Coastal Glass said that Dick Gagnon told him and other coworkers details of the murders of the Parkers, including details of how they were shot and how nothing was missing from the home. This is in the last couple of days following the shooting.

So the employee said, I don't know why he told me. I wish he wouldn't have. Yeah. Don't tell me any of this. So Richard said he only told them because he learned the details of the crime scene from George and Charlie Parker Jr. who found the bodies. He said, I heard from them. They were in there. And they told me. And now I told these people. I don't know. I don't know anything more than anyone else. Just tell me what they –

My girlfriend's family said. Yeah, absolutely. Now, gunshot residue. They test everybody for gunshot residue. Really? They find none on Dickie Gagnon's hands.

None on Bambi's hands. They do find gunshot residue on Charlie Parker Jr.'s hands. Really? Yes, but he has no motive for this because he gets nothing. So it makes no sense. Well, CP2 has got no interest in this. No interest in this. So after all of this here, after all of their going around, they can't get past the fact that

And we'll talk about there's another reason here. They find a spot of blood on the bottom of one of Dick Gagnon shoes that matches Charlie Parker scene on the sole of his ship. So they are very suspicious from that. They don't like that. Richard has been telling people about the crime scene. They think that's odd. They think that Bambi has all the motivation in the world here because she gets everything and doesn't have to live in a fucking tent anymore.

So about a week after the murders, Bambi and Richard are going to be arrested for murder. Yes. Which it seems real like they don't have enough at this point to me. That's just because you've got somebody's blood. I mean, granted.

I don't, I spend a lot of time with you and I like you a lot, but my blood's probably, probably not on your shoes. I doubt it. No, I don't think I got any blood anywhere near. No, nowhere near you. So that's, I mean, I guess if you lived with someone, you'd have more blood. But you know, that might be your fault because you're hoarding it all. You keep it all locked away. I'm hardly any ever letting any of it. So, I mean, what do we want really?

Keeping it all stuffed in my body like a little bitch. So they're both arrested. They're booked into the detention center. And there we go. So now the charges, it's about two weeks after the murder. They're going to charge them with murder and burglary as well.

For breaking the glass and going in. They really believe this. Oh, yeah. They released the arrest warrants and first degree burglary, two counts each of murder. And let's do this shit. So. OK. Now, the reactions. People are shocked by this. This is the perfect family. Yeah. Yeah. Diane Parker of Georgetown, who is the sister in law of Diane Parker of Georgetown.

Yeah. Said the hardest part is that it is a family member. It's heartbreaking. We keep hoping that this isn't true, meaning that Bambi didn't kill her mother.

Be one thing if a serial killer broke in and killed everybody. We can understand that. Yeah. Yeah. That seems more plausible. It seems more plausible than a chick named Bambi did it. You know what I mean? Yeah. So Diane said she had not seen this. Diane had said she'd not seen Bambi for years before hearing about the arrest. But she said she knew from other people that Bambi had become distant with the family.

Now, a neighbor here, Bill Haynes, he lives up the road and knew Diane Parker for 30 years, said that the arrest will bring some closure in a time of fear here because of the stanko thing. Everybody's been shitting their pants, you know, on baited breath and everything else. So she this guy said, I thought maybe a murderer was on the loose out here. I don't like sleeping with a gun under my bed, but I think a lot of people were.

Two people were murdered. Yeah, there was a murderer. There was a murderer there. I thought maybe a murderer was on. Yeah, someone is a murderer. That we know for sure.

Jesus Christ. So then they're still talking about, though, the blood that they found. The four droplets don't match either Richard or Bambi or Charlie Parker Jr. Oh, boy. So we have one with blood on his shoe, one with a motive, and then the other guy with gunshot residue. But the blood on the ground matches no three of these people. Missing everybody. This is...

Dude, if you're a cop, wouldn't you be really confused here? I'd be mad because you can't. This ain't slam dunk for anything. No. One has motive. One has this. One has that. But none of it goes together. So it makes no sense. So the blood here, the testimony they find in a hearing here, the SLED, which is the State Law Enforcement Division agent, indicated blood found on a pair of sneakers at Gagnon's home because they had moved to Myrtle Beach right after this.

matched that of Charles Parker Sr. And a DNA expert said that the blood was found on the sole of the shoe. Now they asked Dick, how'd you get his blood on your shoes? He said he got the blood on his shoes when he went to close the blinds

To keep Bambi from seeing the blood on the floor in the bathroom where Charlie Parker Sr. was found. Oh, I was wearing these that day that I was in the house. I went in the house to get Bambi's keys and her cell phone, he said. Okay. A cell phone that was in there. So he said, I went in there and I closed the blinds and there was blood everywhere. He said, quote, I tried to step around it as best I could. Okay. But apparently not good enough.

That's his story, though. I went in there later on that day. What do you want? It's not a bad story. I mean, it's plausible. So they're in jail here for six months. Okay. Wow. Before awaiting trial and they can't make bond and there is no bond. It's a no bond situation. Right.

So they do want a bond, though. And there's a judge who's expecting to consider bond for the second time here. Bambi and Richard have been jailed nearly six months. And so they say either move on with this or let us out, basically. So one of Bambi's relatives pleads to the judge for the bond to be rejected.

and says he and other family members would fear for their lives if Bambi's put out on the street. She's going to come after us. So the prosecutors also said possible motives on Bennett's part included conflict over all this shit, and you're going to inherit everything. So Bennett's lawyers said child custody was not an issue between Bennett and her mother anymore. That was over. Yeah, we buried the hatchet, we sorted it out. Yeah, so let them out on bond. The judge rejects bonds for both of them.

Here he cited Bambi's relatives fears and the fact that the prosecutors are awaiting additional test results on forensic evidence in the killings. And so, you know, until it's all sorted out, you're staying in jail. Charlie Parker here, Jr. He said that's all we wanted was to keep them in jail.

Okay. Well, why do you have gunshot residue on your hands too? What guns are you firing? Were you out shooting that morning or something? Who knows? That's weird. And by the way, I did that review. We did the review about the shooting in the beginning to show you that gunshots are common in this area, so nobody really even notices them.

So they said the they spell out the whole crime. The prosecutors do. Then Tim Johnson, who is Bambi's uncle and the family's the chosen family spokesperson. I'm going to tell my family right now. There's ever a tragedy that we have to speak to the media about. I'm not your spokesperson. Pick somebody else.

Those fuckers would try to make me do it. I know it. Well, you're used to talking on shit. You know how to do that. No, I'm not family spokesperson. Not doing it. I don't want to put our shit out there. Not speaking for you people. Not happening. So he said that pleaded with the judge to reject the bond saying, quote, if she could kill her mother, she will kill anyone. It's a great point. That's a good point. That's a real good point. And Johnson said he and other family members would fear for their safety and

which, I mean, I don't blame them. The bond is denied. Bambi's lawyer afterwards said, I'm appalled. Eventually she will get bond.

Based on what? A lot of times, two counts of first-degree murder usually don't get Bond. It's tough to get out of there on one count of first-degree murder. They won't even let Puff Daddy out, for Christ's sake, on Bond. You know what I mean? I know he did bad shit, but there's not two dead people out of it. That we know of. I mean, there's Biggie and Tupac, but we're not sure if that's him or not.

So Dickie Gagnon's lawyer said, I think the judge erred on the side of caution for all parties. Yeah. He does say he thinks that Dick will be exonerated when all the evidence is available. Yeah.

That's what's going to happen. The prosecutor said he was very happy the bonds were denied, and he considers both Bennett and Gagnon both flight risks as well because they have really nothing to lose here. He said there is real, genuine fear and concern in that family about what might happen to them if she is released. I mean, you think she's going to get out like a drooling maniac, like, I'm going to go kill my whole family now? Yeah, maybe. But if you were...

got out on bond for murder, that would probably not be the best course of action to go kill more people. Yeah. Especially if you're claiming innocent. If you're saying not guilty and then you're going to go out and murder a bunch of people, I think they're going to get you on all of it. And they've already told a judge that they're afraid she'll murder them. She's the only suspect at that point. She's in deep shit. If you're her and you're out on bond, you want to hire a bodyguard for these people, make sure nothing happens to them because...

Otherwise, they're going to blame you. I don't even get blamed. Yeah. So after about a month after the DNA or the bond is denied, they let Bar Bambi out of jail. They dropped the charges against her. Really? They just drop them. They say there's a lack of DNA evidence, and the only evidence they have is that she

She's with Dick. But they don't have any physical evidence on her. And they have no... They don't show enough cause to hold her. So they have to drop the charges. Judge said basically either drop the fucking charges or we're going to do a low bond and whatever. But you don't have evidence. They kept telling the judge we're waiting on physical evidence results. Hold them, hold them. When they came in and there was nothing linking Bambi to it, they said... I mean...

What are we doing here? Yeah. Let her out. So the prosecutor, Greg Hembree, drops the charges. He said the decision was hinged on a substance found on one of Bennett's boots that after testing did not produce a DNA sample. So they said they thought they had blood on her boots, but no, they couldn't extract any DNA from it. They might have been blood, but they couldn't get anything out of it.

Like it had been cleaned and they found it. So the prosecutor said he can reinstate the charges when more evidence materializes. So don't worry, Bambi, you hang on here.

Now, Dickie Gags is going to go to trial here on this. He says he's innocent. He claims 100% innocence. He says, you fucking people are crazy. Sure, I have blood on my shoe. Sure, my girlfriend has all the motivation in the world, and I'm assault police officers, and I'm kind of a scumbag, and I live in the woods. Doesn't make me a murderer. None of that makes me a murderer, pal.

So in a pretrial hearing, the defense lawyers for Dickie Gagnon asked that items taken from Gagnon's home and his vehicle not be allowed at trial. He's trying to get evidence thrown out. So they described him as clean-shaven, shackled, and wearing a brown jumpsuit. Very fashionable. So during the hearing, a detective of the Horry County Police Department testifies that

A co-worker of Gagnon's told him that harm should be done to the Parkers. That's what Gagnon said. Really? Harm should be done because they were interfering in Bambi's child custody and property issues. Okay. This guy also testifies. By the way, this detective's name is Livingston. That's why I didn't say it because that would just be confusing. Not related at all. Not related to David or Bambi or any of these people. Wow. It's just they all have the same name for some reason.

So Livingston testified, damn it, this cop testifies, there's quite a bit of blood found in the home, including the hallways, bedroom, and bathroom. The defense attorney said search warrants obtained by police to search Gagnon's home and vehicle were vague and obtained information, and things they obtained were not in the police reports. So they said, one guy told a man, said a man told police that a white vehicle was driving around the Parker home the night of the killings.

Which is what he drives, Gagnon. That was why they got to search the vehicle was because of that. But later on, because he drives a Chevy Blazer, a white Chevy Blazer, Gagnon. Later on in the interview, though, the man changed his mind and said, no, no, it was a van, not a Chevy Blazer. I'm pretty sure, thinking about it now, I think it was a van.

So we have a white vehicle that's not a car, but van or blazer is. A white enclosed vehicle that can hold extra shit. That can hold extra people and shit. All of this information will be allowed at trial, the judge rules. So they're allowing all of it in, and he's, shit, he's been in jail since it fucking happened here. So it's been a while. Now the trial comes up. Bambi will not testify.

Not because she refuses, because the prosecutors decided early on not to call her to the stand because she had different versions of different stories, quote unquote, the prosecutor said. So this is amazing. There's no evidence against her and she has no consistent story. So not only can they not charge her, they're not going to even make her testify. No, because that's not good. That's bad for them. She just like...

dumbed her way out of this somehow. Good for her. Wild. Good for you, Bambi. Yeah, nice work. In the openings here, the prosecutor said that Gagnon's knowledge of the crime scene was far superior to law enforcement and led police to believe he was involved.

And they also that's what led them to believe that. And the prosecutor also said that Richard made threatening statements to coworkers about the park, about the Parkers. He was so angry he was shaking thing. And also the prosecutor says that Dick and Bambi's poor and deplorable living conditions. That's why they did this. So they could kill them to gain their estate, which is really Bambi's anyway. So the defense said, listen.

My guy here, Dickie Gags. All right, I get his name's funny. We all laughed at it when we saw it. Telling you, he called me. I said, get the fuck out of here. That's not your real name. It took a while to convince me. You know what I mean? He said, sure. He's a loudmouth braggart that nobody liked. I mean, sure, he's a... I don't even like him. He's an asshole, this fucking guy. Nobody likes him. Nobody likes him. It's what he said. Sure, he's a loudmouth and an asshole that nobody liked, but that doesn't mean he killed his girlfriend's mother and stepfather.

Makes a good point. He said that, you know, it's crazy. He said there's been a rush to judgment here. He said the blood found at the scene doesn't match my clients or his girlfriend. So what the fuck? He's the defense attorney said no one knows who know whose it is. And Richard is on trial because of his mouth because he ran his mouth at work, basically. So now Gagnon's own mother testifies against him. Yeah, that's crazy.

That's wild to get your mom to testify against me, against you. I don't know. My mom goes to church now. If I fuck up, I got a feeling I'm going to have to see her. Oh, my God. My mother would lie fucking with a smile on her face on the stand for me.

He was at home. Yep. Here's what I made him for food, she'd say. Get the fuck out of here. I could have killed someone on her front lawn and she'd be like, he was inside the whole time.

That's funny. So she testifies here. Ava Mae Offerman is her name. She said that her son called her about 530 p.m. on April 12th, the day of the murders, to tell her that Diane and Charles Parker Sr. were killed, but nothing was stolen from their home. She said, quote, I thought it was in very poor taste. It angered me. I hung up.

I don't know why that would be in poor taste. The fact that he's talking about the things like possessions, material things that didn't happen. I guess like it's more important, but nothing was stolen. They're dead. Don't worry. Nobody stole nothing. Yeah. I don't know what's going on. She also said that Richard asked her in April 2005 who was in charge. And she said she believed that meant to be who was in charge of the Parker's estate and

which included a lot of money and land. Now, during cross-examination, Offerman told the defense attorney her son could have met who was in charge of the funeral arrangements. And she also testified that, to her knowledge, Richard did not own a gun. And I believe he's a felon, so he probably isn't allowed to own a gun at this point. He punched a police officer. That takes you out of the running for a gun. So she said, quote, he's a hothead, but give him 15 seconds and he knows what's right from wrong.

He'll get all pissed off, but you let him cool down. He'll be fine. As long as he counts shit. Yeah. As long as he actually takes 15 seconds. Yeah. Now, testimony about the blood is that they found blood on his shoe. And there you go. The cross examination on the blood guy. They asked this guy if he was aware that Richard Gagnon had returned to the Parker's home to retrieve clothing in the days after the deaths.

And the blood guy said, why would I know that? They give me a sample and I test it. I have no idea what the fuck anybody's doing before that. It also revealed that none of the blood found in the Parker's home matched Richard's. This guy also testified that fingerprints found at the crime scene were not compared to Richard's because he used to live at the home and there was a couple of days before and he was there a couple of days before the shootings at the latest. So we expect to find fingerprints of him.

Yeah, he's been in the house. And they don't run any of the prints, too, because they have foreign blood already. Already they have blood they can't explain. What if there's prints they can't explain, too? Then what happens? Nightmare. Then you're fucked. So they don't even bother testing at all. They go, I'm sure they're in there, but that's fine. Now a cellmate testifies. Okay. From the J. Reuben Long Detention Center. And this guy testifies. His name is Robert Lee Mullins.

He says that Richard originally denied killing the Parkers when he first got to jail. Mullins said, he told me he didn't do it. I believed him at first. It changed later on. This guy testifies that Richard told him things about the shootings and crime scene that only the killer would know. So this guy wrote a letter to alert the prosecutors about this. Mullins said he pressed Richard on the slayings and Richard later said, quote, well, I did it.

I went into a rage. I just went into a rage and I did it. Well, you want to know the truth? I did it. Mullen said that Gagnon was concerned about gunpowder residue on his hands and asked because this was before the test came back and asked, do you think it can go through gloves?

So he's saying he had gloves on during this. He also said a window was broken to make it look like a burglary. He said, yeah, we broke this window in the beginning in the kitchen there, glass door, to make it look like a burglary. And, you know, do you think gunpowder residue can go through fucking gloves? That's his thing. That's a big fat no. That's a probably not, I would say, yeah. Those are some shit gloves if they do. Those are not going to keep your hands warm at all. So now Richard testifies.

On his own behalf, he spends two hours on the witness stand one day explaining his actions. He rebutted the testimony from other witnesses that he was angry with the Parkers about land and child custody bullshit.

They ask him, what about crime scene info that you know that only the killer could have known? He said that he was discombobulated upon. That's the word he used to discombobulated upon learning of the Parker's deaths. He said it was such a mind blowing situation going on, which isn't an answer to why do you know everything about the crime scene?

What do you think he meant when he said discombobulated? He didn't mean that, right? Well, yeah. Did he? He said it's such a mind-blowing situation. It's kind of like getting the wind knocked out of you. My concern was Bambi. Yes, he does mean that. He said, I don't know how I knew all the intimate crime scene details. I was too confused to know where I got it from, basically. I was too discombobulated to understand. Somebody told me, I guess. I don't know. They must have. Yeah, who knows?

Then they said, what about the shoes? And he said he reentered the Parker's home on the evening of April 12th, which it should have still been locked down. I don't even know if it would be released by then. I think, right? To get Diane Parker's car keys and cellular phone for Bambi. She wanted her mom's stuff.

He said that he stepped in blood on the floor, which was later found on his shoes. He said that he went to the bathroom to put the blinds down. Like we said, he testifies to that, though. Now he's under oath. It's different. So he said, yeah, Bambi, who was in the courtroom during most of his testimony, left before he was done. She might have to go pick the kids up or something. We have no idea. She could have been a lot of things. She could have been overwhelmed. Who knows? Discombobulated. She's all discombobulated. Discombobulated.

The discombobulation of Dickie Gagnon, this episode should be called. So now Richard testifies that Bambi never told him to kill these people either. He said, well, did Bambi tell you? No. He told a deputy that he loved and was devoted to Bambi, but that she, quote, wasn't very popular with her family at the time of her death of the deaths.

Richard also testifies that when he asked his mother who's in charge, he was referring to funeral arrangements, not who is in charge of the estate as well. Then after all this, they ask him a very direct fucking question. Did you kill these fucking people or not? He said, I didn't kill anybody.

Hmm. Which is a, that's, you know, language wise, that's the right way to say it. Because if you're innocent, you want to get that info out as quick as possible. I didn't kill anybody. And not only did I not kill them, I didn't kill anybody. Anybody. I was watching that Ted Bundy documentary, the one where it's like a multi-parter where they're talking about his recordings in jail and all that.

And there's one point where he gets to Colorado when before he escapes from Colorado the second time. And he is they're interviewing him about all of these murders. And they're saying, you know, they're saying you kidnapped this girl and they're saying you killed people here. You're being charged in Colorado. They're also talking about Washington. And they're like, is any of this true? And he goes on about a three paragraph rant without saying, I didn't kill anybody. Yeah.

He's like, well, I mean, that's a vague question. It's a very large question. All those people. I mean, I don't even know what I'm being accused of at this point. But no, I mean, I am an innocent man of the blah, blah, blah, blah. He never says I didn't fucking kill it. Holy shit. Get me out of here. I escaped because they're saying I killed all these people and I didn't. And it's terrifying because I didn't fucking kill him. And they say they didn't. Doesn't say any of that. So then Gagnon looks to the jury and says, I just want you to know I didn't do this.

I was an arrogant person. I was foolish. I said a lot of ugly things. I've never disrespected Diane and Charlie. And they said, what about your cellmate? And he said, I didn't say any of that to that guy. And I don't know shit about it. Making it up.

So the closing arguments, the prosecutor here said that, you know, he had information far superior to that of law enforcement. It's child custody. He said that Bambi and he had nothing. And Diane and Charlie had everything. So everything. Defense attorney Bill Grammer told the jury, please look through the smoke and around the mirrors.

He told the jury that the prosecution didn't deliver details of an extensive investigation that were promised during opening arguments. He said the puzzle piece doesn't fit. Okay. Then you must acquit, right? That's how it works. If it doesn't fit, you must acquit. So the jurors deliberate for about seven hours. So they're talking about it, and they find him guilty on everything. Is that right? Guilty of everything. Blood on the shoe. Told people they deserved it. That's good enough, apparently. Okay.

No gun. They have no murder weapon. Nothing like that. So sentencing comes around and Diane's sister gets up there and she says, she was just like my heart. She said, I couldn't do anything without her. And the defense attorney says, well,

Please be okay to my guy here. We think this is a verdict based on passion, not based on evidence. Like, the jury's upset that two upstanding, nice people were murdered, and they want to blame somebody, and this guy is the guy. They need to, yeah. They're putting this guy out there, so they're blaming him. He's not the right guy. Now, Richard says to the judge this. Now, number one thing the judge wants is accept responsibility, show remorse. That's what they're looking for. Sure. He says, I maintain my innocence. Uh-oh.

He said, I don't understand a lot of what went on here. In trial? What are you talking about? We did a... He's discombobulated about trial procedures now? When is this guy not confused, is what I'd like to know. We gave you your constitutional right. What the fuck? Does he have brain damage or something? Have you ever seen an episode of Law & Order? What the fuck are you talking about? I can't...

Anybody nowadays, no one can say, I don't know what the hell goes on in a trial. We've all seen it in every TV show. We've all seen it. So he says, I don't understand a lot of what went on here. I'm at a loss. I don't understand. He doesn't understand a lot. And then he says, there's a killer still out there. Oh, is there? Yeah, he pulls, he does an OJ there. So the judge says, well, that may be, but you, sir.

may fuck off life in prison without parole. How about it? Life without. And the prosecutor afterwards said that the investigation is not over because blood was found at the scene that didn't match anyone connected to the family. So they said there's still another defendant we're looking for.

Richard's defense lawyers say, yeah, we think that's the guy who did it is what we're doing here. Like, what the fuck, basically. When you find that person, you're going to release my guy and a whole bunch of money in the lawsuit. Oh, it's going to be fucking big time at this point. It's going to be crazy. He's going to be fucking all sorts of dough here. So 2007 now, this is right after that. The Charlotte Observer does a big giant article on Bambi.

Big old article on Bambi, and it says, in the time since her parents were fatally shot, Bennett says she's seen her reputation suffer. You know, because she was accused of murder and all. Right. And her boyfriend was convicted of it. Convicted, yeah. Her son's taken away from her and her health beginning to fade, but that she's ready to fight the scrutiny that has engulfed her for two years.

She said, I was portrayed as a monster to the public. It's sad that innocent until proven guilty. That's the saying, but it's not that way. People condemned me and tried to convict me from day one. Yeah. And it gets probably worse once your boyfriend is convicted. Yeah. With no motive whatsoever, you know? Right.

So she said the charges, once they were dropped, she's trying to return to some normalcy in her life. Uh, she said that she picks her two daughters up from school and clears weeds up each weekend from her parents' grave sites. She goes and hangs out there. She said, how many, how many weeds grow from week to week in this grave site? Probably two. Yeah. Two little plink, plink fucking dandelion or something. Um, Springs. She says she suffers mentally and physically though a lot. She,

She says she hasn't spoken to either one of her school age or high school age sons for more than a year and a half as well since she was arrested. Her sons won't talk to her. Now, I don't know if that is because their father says your mom might be a murderer and I'm not letting you talk to her. Maybe. She said there are things that were taken from me that I can never get back.

Yeah, six months. She said, I've lost two years. Police and prosecutors were doing their job. It's their job to thoroughly investigate anyone. That was their job. And I would expect nothing less. But, you know, she says me, on the other hand, I didn't do anything. She compared then she likened her case to that of the Duke lacrosse team.

Oh, is that right? We did a bonus episode on this. Bring you up to speed quick if you don't know. The Duke lacrosse team one night had a big party at a frat house, and they hired a few young ladies to dance for them and be strippers. And the whole thing got really out of control with them fighting with them, and there was racial slurs thrown around. And at the end of the night, the ladies ended up leaving, and everybody was –

Everybody was none the better for this experience. The guys were pissed. They were worse. Matter of fact. Yeah. And then one of them said that they raped her. They basically essentially gang raped her and held her down in the bathroom and had a very intricate story where people were arrested for it and shit like that. And then it came out that none of it was true.

She lied about everything. Not about the fighting out there, but lied about anything sexual assault-wise was all made up. And several years later, she knifed somebody to death. And then she ended up killing somebody, too. So she was a little tad bit unstable, but that's who she's comparing herself to. They go on in the article to say the burden of proof is what played a role in the length of her legal battle. That's what the prosecutor said.

Prosecutor says this, quote, I think it's important to understand that there are two legal standards. Law enforcement is looking at probable cause for an arrest. Sure. Our standard to offer proof beyond a reasonable doubt in court. That's the highest standard of the law. He goes on to basically say if law enforcement, if it's 51 percent, they think you did it, you're getting arrested. But we have to be much more sure than that to take it to court.

As that. So if you look to a lot of that is the way statistics work for crime reporting. If a police department makes an arrest for a case, it's technically the murder is cleared now. Oh, so they have all of them have the boards with red names or open cases, black names or closed cases. That changes a red name to a black name. If you make an arrest, you release the guy the next day. That name is still black. It doesn't go back to red. OK.

So arrests are great for police statistics. They can say we have a 70 percent homicide solve rate, even if they let half of those people go that they arrested in a day. They can claim better stats that way. So that's a little because we arrested somebody because you arrested somebody. So technically, two names were cleared on this. Yeah.

So anyway, Bennett, though, she still denies any role in the murders. She wouldn't discuss details of the events surrounding the incident, but she says she was at her Myrtle Beach home on the night her parents were killed and didn't know about their deaths until after she took Richard to work the next day or that day and the bodies were found. She said, how can I wake up and find out about my mommy and daddy like everybody else? And yet I go to jail for six months. How old is she? Thirty four.

My mommy and daddy. That's a Southern thing, by the way. Which it's less creepy when women do it. Is it? Yeah. When I see a guy who's got a beard like you talking about my daddy, I'm like, listen, dude, give me a fucking break, bro. I don't like the daddy. I don't like either of them because the mommy implies I can't take care of myself.

Yeah, it implies you need your butt to be scrubbed by somebody. Yeah. Your ass is going to poop on it. I would enjoy it, but I don't need it. It's not necessary, really. So, yeah, she said, and they talked to Dick Gagnon here, and he said, I tried to help her and her parents get along. He's like, I didn't kill anybody. I just tried to help everybody get along. Next thing you know, we already fucking am here. So Bennett's lawyer says that she has passed two polygraph tests performed by an outside agency as well.

So he's saying, stop accusing her of shit. She didn't do it. She passed polygraphs, which they're independent ones. Just like a police one, you can pretty much...

you know, polygraph tests can come out how you want it to come out. So depending on how they phrase the questions. But yeah, she said that she regained guardianship over her two girls, but lost custody of her two boys. And she now suffers three ulcers and undergoes regular counseling as well. Her mental and physical state have been deteriorating. She said, she said she's considered moving from the grand strand where she has lived her entire life because of the scrutiny she has faced.

She said, I don't want to be here anymore. This is not my home anymore. You learn who cares about you and who doesn't. It's sad that it's that way, but I will not leave until I get my sons back. I will not give up on that. Apparently after the killings, her sons were taken to Texas by their father. But the boy's father has since moved to Pennsylvania and left the two boys with Charlie Parker Jr. So now they're with neither of their parents.

Yeah, they're just with their uncle here. So that's interesting. They're half uncle. So she says that she hasn't spoken to either of the boys since October 2005 when she was released from jail. She wants custody and worries that members of the Parker family with whom she hasn't been close to for some time have turned the boys against her. So by now they're saying what a piece of shit I am.

Which is a fair thing. I mean, yeah, your boyfriend's convicted of this and you're free. So he wouldn't just do that. He didn't get anything. Yeah. All the whole family thinks the same thing. They all think that they did this shit together. Bambi got lucky and didn't have any evidence against her and he didn't turn on her. And that's just the way it is. Yeah. So she says that family has never accepted me. Meaning stepdad's part of the family, which I mean, they met her when she was a teenager. So that'd be hard to say.

So 2018, she is trying to get the babies back is what she's doing. I need my babies. So they need their mommy. So boys have not been living with her forever, and she's trying to get them back, trying to rebuild shit here. Her son's father, Alexander Young, appeared in court to ask to be removed from consideration for custody. He doesn't want it. Okay. Can you believe that shit? Imagine going to court and going, take me off the list of people that want these kids because I don't.

Yeah. Wow. They said that it'll likely be several months before a hearing is scheduled. They said they're in the discovery process. The bench trial could be six months away. The boys who are at this point, 15 and 17, it's going to be a moot point pretty soon if you don't make a decision soon. Especially one of them. I mean, the other one's got a couple more years, but one of them's almost done. One's going to be married with three kids until they decide, when they decide where the fuck he has to live. He's going to be like, I already have a house with my wife. This is crazy. Yeah.

I've got a mortgage. I've got a mortgage right now. So that's how that's going on. And 2009 comes around now. Okay. 2009. And there's a little oh shit moment here. A DNA match comes in on the four blood drops. Four blood drops, yeah. And it has led police to a second suspect in more than a four year fucking ordeal this is. Yeah.

The DNA belongs to a 24-year-old man. Who's he? Named Bruce Antoine Hill. What'd he do? Well, they found out that his DNA matches because he's currently, at this moment in time when this is going on, serving a sentence at the Northeast Correctional Complex in Mountain City, Tennessee.

He's serving a sentence for a home invasion in Tennessee. That sounds familiar here. Not only that, in that incident, he's charged with assault and battery with intent to kill, armed robbery, and first-degree burglary.

Now, they are also investigating a home invasion at 301 Sun Colony Boulevard in Longs, where on October 17th, 2006, they found a rubber glove and extracted DNA from it. And that is also matched to Bruce Antoine Hill. What is going on?

Let's see. They they notified the state notified Horry County detectives that the DNA from that homicide and DNA from the home invasion were a match. And then they had they took his DNA sample when he was jailed, matched it up and then matched it up to the Parker's murder as well.

So they're going to charge him with two counts of murder and one count of first degree burglary because there's a blood match. I mean, right. Why the fuck you bleeding, dude? You know, like without bleeding somebody else's house. Yeah, I've never been in there. My blood is in very few houses. It really is. Especially strangers. Yes. Strangers. There's very few strangers with my blood in their house. Now he has convictions in South Carolina that include common law robbery, which I have no idea what that is.

Common law robbery. Stealing shit from your live-in girlfriend that you've been together a long time. I don't know. If you stay in this house too long, unmarried, you steal from it.

Then he stepped it up to strong arm robbery. Okay. Yeah. With threats, uh, drug possession, uh, also domestic violence, two different counts of that. A first offense, criminal domestic violence and a second offense, criminal domestic violence. So he's a piece of shit. He's a charmer. This one boy, he's only 24. He's already done all this. And he's 10 years younger than Richard. What's your like? How does he know Richard?

What's up with that? So he is from Tabor or Tabor City, North Carolina, and he's in the middle of serving a seven-year prison sentence after he pleaded guilty to robbery and conspiracy to commit aggravated robbery. So they're saying how he will be tried once his sentence there is up. He'll be tried in South Carolina.

Big question. How are this guy and Richard connected? How do they know each other? That's the big deal. Now, at this point, they were prosecutors refused to describe any association between Richard and Hill before the crime. But they say that Hill's charges will have no effect on Richard's conviction. OK, they say we're saving all that for court. The prosecutors said Hill's charges and trial won't impact shit.

They asked Hill, okay, how do you know this guy? What'd you do? How'd it happen? And Hill said, I don't fucking know that guy. Never seen him. And he said, the first time I saw that guy is when you showed me his picture. I don't fucking know that guy. Don't know him from Adam. Never met him before. Don't know him. So they're like, that's impossible. Two people don't kill someone together who don't know each other, basically. Good point. So in Hill's trial here later on, they're going to talk about that he was... The way he got caught was...

Or before, he got pulled over at one point in Myrtle Beach in April of 2005, which is when this all happened. He's in the area. He got pulled over at a traffic stop on Ocean Boulevard along with a man in the car named Khalil Moore, who is later identified as a former employee of Charlie Parker's Mirror Tech business. So that's the connection they have is this guy knows both of those guys.

Right. So that's their connection here. This episode is brought to you by Huggies Little Movers. Huggies knows that babies come in all shapes and sizes, and their tushies do too. Huggies has more curves and outstanding active fit. Parents know that there's nothing worse than an ill-fitting diaper.

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Canva presents the killer of productivity. It was an ordinary workday until... Oh no, this meeting. It could have been an email. Run. Canva had a creative solve.

Get email. I'll just put the info the team needs in a Canva doc, and I'll make it visual with images, charts, and graphics. Bring productivity killers to justice with creativity. Love your work at Canva.com. They said that Moore is the only known person to link Bruce Hill to Richard Gagnon. So they're trying to work on all that for court.

Now, 2011, Hill is ordered to supply more DNA samples. They want more because they just need more DNA.

More area to test. Yeah. It'll certainly fix things up if we've got a lot of it. When you test stuff, it goes away. So you have to – yeah. We need a supply. They have to put like liquids and different like shit in it. So these samples will be compared to these other blood samples to make sure it's him. The judge said – ruled that they could take more blood. So there's more than sufficient probable cause. Hill's attorney, Ron Hazard – that's what you want your attorney's name to be –

A guy named Hazard, as in Dukes of, objected to the samples being collected because samples already had been provided. And apparently the paperwork regarding those samples was lost, so they needed more samples. Oh, okay. Like, you fucker, you can't even keep shit in a filing cabinet. You're not going to stick my client again. And they said, oh, yeah, we are. We're going to definitely stick him. Just give us more of your blood.

We're going to take a whole bunch. The defense attorney said they have not met the standards necessary. And the judge said, yes, they fucking have. Go ahead. Stick them up. So the trial comes around. The jury, and this includes alternates, 12 men and two women. There are 12 women and two men. Sorry. Including the two alternates was selected. One of the women was dismissed after she told the judge she knew about the case. And so they replaced her with an alternate. Prosecution in the openings here. Okay. Okay.

Prosecutor said, it's clear it is two murders. It's clear it was burglary. The only thing left is who did these things. That young man over there is the one who did these ghastly deeds. Ghastly. That sounds fucking downright demonic. He's doing ghastly is like, you know, oh my God, he'd like removed all their organs and hung them from the ceiling or something. So the defense here, he said that this guy doesn't know this couple and never been to their house.

Couldn't have been him. Don't know how his blood's there, but, you know, he told the jurors during opening statements that nothing of value was taken from the home, even though there were valuable items in the home. And he's like, my guy's a burglar. He knows how to steal. He takes shit. He will take shit. He told the jurors that nothing of value is taken and evidence is expected to show. He said, I'm going to show you that Hill has never been to this home, didn't know the Parkers, and the papers were rummaged through inside the house as if someone was looking for paperwork, which why would a stranger look for paperwork?

Also good points. Strangers look for cash and jewels. But I thought possibly someone went in the boot looking for cash because people might keep cash in their boots. You know what I mean? Just a thought. I don't know.

Well, it's a common thing for people to put money in their shoe in the closet. That's what I mean. So that's been done for years and years and years. And like a tall boot might be harder to get in there. So, yeah, who knows? Now, the defense attorney said the truth is always consistent in every respect. It's my hope that you have the courage to follow that oath no matter where the information leads you, because the truth is always consistent.

So don't be dishonest, please, is what he's telling us. The truth doesn't lie. Yep. He said, and he also says that the prosecutor offered him a deal with a sentence recommendation of 35 years in prison even, not even life without parole. And he said, my guy took a deal in another case. He'll take deals, he says, but not if he didn't do anything. He said he has always and still to this day rejects their offer.

Okay. Rejects it. So the trial is going to focus on the blood drops, obviously. That's really the only information they have. No one saw him there. One of the police officers said the blood that was here was out of place. And it occurred in the same time frame as when these people were shot. The defense does not present any witnesses or evidence to the jury. They go, I don't think they made their case, which is a thing.

A lot of defense people will do this sometimes as like a statement, like, well, they didn't make their case. I don't even have to present one. Yeah, yeah. My case will be closing arguments, basically. Take my coat off and flex and walk out of here. I just... Do you think that's... Like, there's a certain psychological thing to it where you'd go, yeah, I mean, well, if he's going to depend at all on that, then, you know, sure, I'm sure it's fine. You know, but something about that also...

psychologically, if you're a juror and you saw one person or one side for a week present all this stuff and put witnesses up and question them and show evidence and introduce exhibits and all this shit, and the other side goes, I'm good. I don't know. Nothing.

Doesn't that seem like it seems it's overly confident and it's very short sighted. As the as a juror, I'm going, really? Yeah, that makes you weigh the evidence a little more. But as like if I was the defendant, I'd be like, say something, motherfucker.

Yeah, do something for me. Call somebody. He's sitting back there going, we're going to show that they didn't even make their case. They didn't fucking present their case. I just think that's a... You can't do that if there's blood evidence on here. If there's DNA, you better... DNA, you better talk. You better fucking explain that. You better bring an expert up there to say how that could be messed up. You better do something. If it's all circumstantial, you can go, all they proved was that my client knew these people or whatever, but they didn't prove he killed them. That's another story, but...

This is different. So in the clothing or in the closings here, the prosecutor said, there's no question, no doubt it was Bruce Hill's blood in that house. Bruce Hill was in that house at the time the Parkers were burglarized and killed. He wasn't the focus of the investigation at the time. We know we have a guy. We didn't know who he is. And that's why he kept or that's why they kept running the blood sample in the national database. He told the jurors it was unclear what caused Hill to bleed inside the Parker's home.

Because we didn't see him for four years, so it's not like we could see wounds on him. But he said he was in a vehicle stop later on, and that's when the man who works for the Parkers was in there. So they said, it is Bruce Hill's blood that tries out the truth. It is the bodies of Charlie and Diane Parker that cries out for justice. So there you go. The defense said, hey, don't jump to conclusions. Come on.

Just based on DNA, don't jump to conclusions here. He said that, you know, about the case because the 11th hour connection of a former worker to this Richard Gagnon guy. This is crazy. What are we talking about here? He said no one else mentions him. There's no documentation. But suddenly he's a close personal friend of the family.

OK, he didn't come up till now. They're saying now that's the end right there. But it's very logical that maybe that guy said, hey, these people, I know their house because I worked there and their house is on the same property as the fucking business. So I've seen they have nice shit in their house. We should rob past the house on my way to my job.

Yes. That's what I mean. So that would make sense that he would might tell Hill that, look, if you're looking for a good place to rob, I know of a place. It's rural. It's, you know, all this shit. So that's how that's how that goes. He also the defense attorney tells the jurors that the blood samples taken from the Parker's home were not put into R.E. County police evidence until seven days after the slayings.

So he's saying that there's a chain of custody problem, much like in the O.J. trial. They made a very big deal of the fact that Van Adder brought the brought O.J. shoes home with him. Right. For the night. And then he then brought them to the station the next day. So seven days is a very long time to take to enter blood. Yeah. The problem is it doesn't.

No matter what, even if it sits out in the sun, if a fox licks it, it doesn't turn green.

someone else's blood into your blood. That's the difference though. So, but it does look like it may be as a sloppy investigation. And it, what it also looks like is he could have taken that and gotten somebody else's gotten his blood. You know what I mean? Yeah. If there's blood. So if there's a sample of his somewhere, if it's not at the police station and entered in, he could have been somewhere searching for it. That's totally. And this guy makes a great point though. He says, look,

They fucked up on the paperwork. We had to give them more samples. Then before that, he said it took seven days for them to enter the scene samples into the database. He says the samples were incorrectly catalog catalog was being from the scene because this is blood from somewhere else from another crime scene. And they said that they have it mixed up. It's not my guy was not there. This is fucking crazy. He also said to remember a medical examiner's testimony that no hair was

from an African-American person was found on the Parkers during the autopsy because Bruce Hill is black. Yeah. And he's got long dreads and shit. Oh. So they're like, they didn't find any black guy hairs. Fuck yeah. It's being ripped out of your head. I would assume so. And he said that the look at it, he then pointed to the, his client and said, look at him. He's got long dreadlocks down halfway down his back. He said he probably hasn't had a haircut since childhood. Yeah.

Which is a funny line. He said, look at him. I must take forever to grow that with them curly little hairs y'all got. Look at how those things kink together like a sheep that ain't had been shorn in a while. Jesus, look at it. You can just tell. He said, I don't know about you, he said, but I'm going to have a handful of hair if I'm fighting for my life. Because he said Diane had...

Bruises all over. Like she's been beaten. Why wouldn't she? Because he said these dreads go all the way down halfway down his back. They're swinging all around. You would grab on to one of those. You'd at least have a dreadlock in your hand when the cops found you. But he said that I'm fighting for my life. He said nothing like that found here. What's up with that?

So this goes to the jury and two hours of deliberation go by and he is found guilty of two counts of murder and first degree burglary. Now, I find it to me. The weird part is.

To have both these guys convicted of the same crime and have literally never... Get time together, man. You've never put them in a room together. Yeah, right. Other than this room. Which is like people who don't know each other generally don't commit...

enormous grand scale crimes together. Yeah. And they don't murder together because they don't know each other and they don't know to trust each other. Yeah. The guy, what was it? Who's going to say that once he stopped as done killing them, he's not going to turn and kill you too. And there's that too. You don't know this person. It's not like it's your buddy or some shit. So the sentencing comes in. You sir may fuck off life without parole again. So they got two,

Life without parole. Then 30 years in prison for the burglary charge as well. And those sentences run concurrently. So life without, essentially. Now, the prosecutor said this during his closing argument. And this is something he said later on, too. The truth is a very stubborn thing. It is a good thing the truth is a stubborn thing because sometimes it takes time for the truth. In this case, it took four years for the truth to break out of its shell.

He said that he thanked all the DNA people. He said this case would not have been solved without the DNA technology and the national database and all that. He said it's rewarding to get the second part of the Parker case concluded. Both of those responsible have been held accountable. So a lot of people go, does this mean the other guy is innocent now?

That's the main question in town. They're like, what's going on? And the prosecutor said, no, no, no, no. Au contraire, the opposite. He said this conviction makes the case against Richard stronger. Oh, wow.

Because he had told a jail cellmate that another person was with him at the time of the murders and that that person left blood in the house. Yeah. So down at my beach house this week. Peace out. Deuces, bitches. I'm out. See you around, guys. I win. He said, if anything, it supports the conviction. Oh, Richard Gagnon's lawyers have a different view of it, though. They say we need a new trial here. Motherfuckers, if that's going to be a part of this shit. Yeah.

He's asking for a new trial based on evidence linked to another man also convicted. His attorneys say there was too little physical evidence and prosecutors relied on the testimony of jailhouse snitches, which we found out are very unreliable on this show. Yeah, it depends on what they need. That's the thing. They always get something for testifying.

So if you're in jail and you want to get your shit lowered and you just hear somebody talking, or you want to make some shit up, you have no motivation not to. Yeah. Jailer. I need somebody to talk to because that guy just said some shit that can help me. Yeah. Other than not wanting to be thought of as a snitch. But if you're looking to get out of jail, you don't give a fuck what those people think about you in there. So they said that...

Obviously, the blood was a big deal, but they said it was from the keys. What the fuck? Then 2013 comes around. Okay. Robert Bob Dudek here, Richard's appellate attorney, files a post-conviction motion here for a new trial presenting a former inmate and preacher at the Murrells Inlet Community Church named Robert Troy Taylor.

Now, Robert Troy Taylor is a link between Richard Gagnon and the cellmate who testified against him. He's the guy in the middle that knows both of them here. This Taylor, Robert Troy Taylor, claimed that he met Mullins, the testifying cellmate, in the prison chapel of the Evans Correctional Institution, and that Mullins told him that he had fabricated his testimony in Richard's hearing. Taylor and Richard...

were in a Bible study group in prison in 2012 and frequently played cards together. This is the guy who just came forward now and Richard. During one such card session, Richard recounted how the guy that testified against him, his testimony, played the whole role in his conviction. I mean, without that, all they have is a spot of blood on a shoe that's easily explained. And so Taylor said he was able to piece together what happened from that. So

It turns out here, Taylor, who, by the way, is also serving a life sentence in South Carolina, life without. So, yeah, at least he's got no motivations, maybe a better food or something.

He said he was in the same jail as Mullins and that Mullins told him at least four times between 2006 and 2007 that he lied and that Richard was wrongfully imprisoned because of it. And he felt bad. That's why he was telling. Oh, he was like felt repentant. And he said he wanted to come forward. Taylor, this guy who comes forward, said he wanted to come forward with this info sooner because it's 2013. He was told this in 2007, but he didn't want to be labeled a snitch. He said.

Okay. They don't want to be labeled a snitch. So that's, that's a big deal. Taylor said that he had put the whole thing out of his mind. He didn't know Richard at the time when Mullins was telling him that he made this whole thing up and send a guy to prison. So this Richard was just this fictional, not fictional, but theoretical guy. I don't know this fucking guy. What do I care? Then he said he put the story completely out of his mind until 2012 when he met Richard at the Lee Correctional Institute and

And talked to him and figured out that this is the guy that this guy was fucking talking about based on what Richard was telling him. I'm in jail because this guy testified against me. I didn't say any of that shit. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he goes, Mullins. Oh, fuck. That's the guy. Oh, yeah.

So he said after a while, Taylor said he couldn't stand to see an innocent man stay in prison if he could do something about it. His conscience finally got to him. You don't belong here. I do. But I can't have you doing what I'm doing. I did bad shit to be here. Yeah, I deserve this shit. So William Grammer, Gagnon's attorney, also said in a statement that he and other defense lawyers would have handled the cases very differently had they known about this new evidence. Like this would have helped out a lot.

They ruled that a judge rules that Taylor's testimony, meaning this new guy,

is new evidence and meets the criteria for a new trial. Oh, he said, that's huge evidence that if that was known about in the appeal, right, then this would have been a totally different appeal. His first appeal would have been completely different if we knew about this shit. So they said that actually meets the everything. He said, Mr. Taylor's testimony was discovered after trial and could not have been discovered before trial in the exercise of due diligence because of the dates that Taylor was imprisoned with Mullins and Gagnon.

So, yeah, it was impossible. He couldn't have been there for trial because he didn't even know Richard yet. So the court finds the testimony to be material because it squarely attacks the credibility of a major piece of evidence in the case's state or the state's case used against Richard. And because it's the only testimony of this type existing, it's not merely cumulative and impeaching. So he will get a new trial. Judge Stephen John gives him a new trial here.

They give credit to Gagnon's appellant attorney. They're like, man, nice job there. One of the attorneys said Bob Dudak, who represented Mr. Gagnon in the court of appeals, did, in my opinion, a brilliant job of bringing evidence to light that did not come out in trial. And it was the type of evidence that made it clear that he was not the one that committed the crime. Now, the prosecutor.

said here that the standard for police to arrest someone is lower than that. And the jury should have, if he's innocent, the jury would find it. He's basically saying these are the, we have these, you know, fail safes in our system of the police can arrest you, but then the jury, the prosecutor needs more evidence to take you to court. And then the jury needs even more than that to convict you. So it should be fine.

He says his office isn't going to do anything that isn't on the up and up and doesn't plan to never will jerk people around just to jerk them around. We don't put people in prison just to put them in prison, he says. So Bambi says she hopes this hearing will bring out the truth about who killed her parents. She thought Richard did this the whole time. Right. Even though he still might. We don't know.

So Bambi said it was like a nightmare. It's like you're dreaming and you're going, please let me wake up. I just couldn't believe it was happening. Something was really wrong. There are no words. It was horrible. So the convictions here in 2013, so new trial is granted, and the conviction is going to be vacated as well. Now, February 2013, Richard, with a retrial pending, because they're going to try him again, they said,

He they say that he can be released on fifty thousand dollars bond. They tell him, OK, pending a trial. Yes. So they asked that the prosecutors and Gagnon's appeals attorney here. I guess they want him to. They agree on a person or law enforcement agency that Gagnon will check in with. So the prosecutor says if he makes bail.

We got to figure out some way for him to check in. Yeah. How are we going to keep track of him? He said, I want someone to lay eyes on him. That's my concern. I don't want him to just disappear. So, yeah, when questioned here, they said that the case wouldn't be called for at least eight months and it would be about three months before he would decide if the case would move forward for the prosecution. So it's going to be a while here. Yeah.

They said that the judge told the prosecutor she wanted an update in April if Gagnon will be retried and when, if he is. And if Gagnon has not posted bond at that time, she will reduce his bail to a personal recognizance bond. Like, you don't start the retrial. We're not going to keep this guy locked up if you don't have anything, basically, which is nice.

So the defense attorney had submitted two affidavits from people who offered to house Gagnon and help him obtain employment if he's released on bond. Those people who live in a beach town in Horry County and Pennsylvania, but they're not identified during the hearing. The Dudek, the appeals attorney, said, I've done this for 23 years. Richard Gagnon is one of only two clients I thought were truly innocent.

Is that right? Wow. That says a lot about your... Yeah. You got a lot of faith in the... Wow. A lot of people. So basically, your job for all this time has been to try to get people out of jail who you thought were guilty? Yeah. That's a shit job. That sucks. And putting a lot of faith in the people that put that person there. Yes, absolutely. The whole judicial system. Yeah.

That's fucking crazy, though, to be like, yeah, two, two. So you couldn't you couldn't do that job if you only defended people you thought were innocent, because there'd be two in 23 years. You'd have two clients.

He'd make more money just working at Dairy Queen until then. Every 12 years you have one guy that's innocent. That's nuts. That's crazy, man. But this lawyer said that he's been jailed for eight years. Yeah. He said, I really think that's a travesty of justice. Gagnon told the judge that he could adjust to being outside of prison again if given the opportunity.

He said in eight years, I've had no write ups. I've had no issues where I had to be restrained. My mind is sound. I'm just ready to please go home. Please get me the fuck out of here. This sucks. Diane's sister, though, Carolyn Chapman, who testified against him at the sentencing hearing, said that told the judge she's concerned that if released on bail, Richard's going to flee. She said, I know with everything in me, he's guilty.

And then her brother, Diane, lady's brother, said that it would be difficult for authorities to keep track of Gagnon if he's allowed to go all the way to Pennsylvania. He said, we just think he should stay here at the beach until the new trial starts, which sounds lovely. It does, yeah. That sounds like you don't hate him at all. Sounds like you really like him. Imagine if someone said to you, you got this bad thing coming up. I really just think he should stay at the beach until that happens. Yeah.

I'd love you to just stay at the beach till all the stressful shit flows over. So 2014, Hill, Antoine Bruce Hill here, he is going to appeal his conviction. And part of it is, did the circuit court err when it prohibited any mention of the prior conviction of Richard Gagnon? Because none of that shit was allowed.

These cases were tried totally separately on totally different theories of the crime, basically. Sure.

You couldn't try these people together. So he wasn't allowed to mention that another person's been convicted, which seems like a big point for the defense. Well, you think my client did it, but you all have already convicted a person my client's never met before. So how does that work? They think somebody did this alone, and they've already done that. They've already convicted the man. He's serving life without. I'll show you the court docs where they talk about him being alone the whole time when he's in there. What the fuck?

So they say the appellant contends that the circuit court erred in holding that evidence of Gagnon's convictions was irrelevant. Appellant argues that he should have been allowed to present testimony or evidence regarding Gagnon's involvement in and conviction of the same crimes. He contends that he was prejudiced because he was denied the opportunity to show the state's inability to connect him to Gagnon. The appeals court says they disagree.

They said the admission of evidence is within the discretion of the trial court and will not be reversed absent a prejudicial abuse of discretion. So unless they let evidence in on purpose just to fuck him, you can't do it. It was all a judge's sound decision at the time.

They said the appellant misconstrued the circuit court's ruling and as a result failed to present any evidence of Gagnon's third party guilt. Appellant misconstrued the circuit court's ruling and as a result failed to present any evidence of Gagnon's third party guilt. Consequently, he's unable to show prejudice from the court suppression of Gagnon's convictions is what he says.

The ruling regarding the admissibility of the conviction was, I will allow you to examine the witnesses about whether somebody else is present, there's somebody else involved in the matter, what the evidence shows. But I will not allow you to bring up that some other person has been convicted because that would, in the court's estimation, lessen the jury's obligation and lessen in their minds their responsibility to treat this matter separate.

Basically, he's saying that, you know, if they hear another person's been convicted, then they're going to go, well, I mean, someone's in jail for it. If it's not a slam dunk, fuck it. This guy can go. Someone's serving time anyway. Yeah, but I mean, if I don't see a jury thinking of it like that, you got to you got to say they were both there then.

That's the thing to me, if I'm the judge, I mean, I get that. It's the legalities of it, of you can you can show that A and B are both guilty, even though A and B weren't in the same room. If you try A and B separately and that's somehow legally standing, which it shouldn't be, you should have to show logic, you know.

There's no logic in that decision whatsoever. It doesn't make any sense. So they said the court's ruling permitted evidence that Gagnon had been involved in the crimes, but not that he had been convicted of the crime. So they could have said there was another guy with blood on his shoe. Yeah. A guy who I don't know had blood on his shoe, but he can't say that he's been tried and convicted already. Right.

But he but I guess they said that he didn't didn't do they didn't. They said the court didn't prevent the appellant from presenting the evidence that Gagnon committed the crimes or evidence that both law enforcement and the solicitor had investigated and arrested and tried Gagnon. You just couldn't say convicted. They're saying that their legal team misconstrued the ruling to mean that you can't mention him at all. And they didn't.

Oh, so it's their fault, not ours. Yeah, he's saying it's your defense attorney that fucked this up, not us here. So that was 2013. 2014, Bruce Hill appeals his sentence again, but he is denied again on this count. Okay. That's tough. So April 23, 2015, Richard's charges are finally dropped. Really?

Finally, his case is dismissed April 23rd, 2015, though it can be presented before a judge anytime in the future under a new docketing system in place. Yeah.

They said the prosecutor said he decided to dismiss the charges with the option to file them again on Richard. He said, I dismissed it without prejudice and we can always bring it back if we need to. I met with the victim's family and they understand. We promised them we will keep working on it. We will always we can always recharge if need be. From our standpoint, it's a bookkeeping thing. We can always recharge. Who gives a shit?

Yeah. Under a new docketing system, he said old cases can be taken before a judge who can dismiss them. If that happens, the cases are dead. But Richardson says his move prevents that. So he's blocking him from having it dismissed by a judge. He said if more evidence comes to light, the charges against him can be restored here and that'll happen. And they said they can bring back charges against Bambi if they want.

So Richardson explained that when the case is older, it can be brought before a judge to review and the judge can dismiss it. But he wasn't comfortable with the evidence at the moment to retry Richard. And he's trying to find more evidence. They they they said, quote, the prosecutor said he's worked with us, meaning Gagnon and his attorney. He's met with us several times. We've tried to get to the bottom of it. I'm not comfortable with the evidence to retry him. It's no fault of the defense or the state.

Yeah. But he met with him several times that he keeps denying it. And they're like, well, if you're just going to keep denying it, then we can't work on anything. He then said certain stuff has got to come through. I don't like when a prosecutor uses the word stuff when talking about life without parole. Might as well say shit to me in that certain shit has got to come through. I trust that more than stuff.

No word sounds more like an 11-year-old is saying it than stuff. I don't know why. Certain stuff. Stuff. Legally speaking, stuff. You know, from a statutory standpoint, stuff has got to come through. We don't control the timing of it, so I don't think it's a misrepresentation that it's going to take it off the stove. We'll keep an eye on it, this metaphorical pot that's boiling. Yeah.

But it won't be on any of the burners right now. Yeah, he's got a whole metaphorical stove popping off now. He's, wow. Turn up the heat. He turned that up. I'll put it to a simmer for a bit now. Put it on a warmer. He said, I've got my files. We're not doing away with any of the evidence or anything like that. So under the current situation, neither man can get his charges expunged or have his file destroyed. And the prosecutor said, we wouldn't agree to anything like that.

So they said the charges, to be clear, have not been expunged. But Richard is a free man with no requirement to report to a bail bondsman or anything like that. He can do whatever he wants because technically he's free. So they say he maintains a real low profile. And Richard's lawyer said his words to me were, I feel blessed. And maybe it's that simple for him.

Richard, in prison, found religion and got into it big time. All good for him. He could use it. This guy is... He needs it. You know what I mean? And, yeah. So he said he's doing much better. He goes to church and all this shit. And please leave him alone, basically. 2017, Bruce Hill appeals again. He asks for a new attorney in his application. That's what he wants. But they said, get the fuck out of here. Yeah, your attorney's an idiot, but...

There's a lot of dumb attorneys. Your blood's on the floor. Fuck off. Yeah, your blood's at the house, man. I don't know what to tell you about that shit. He is presently, or was in the late 2010s, incarcerated at Broad River Correctional Institution in Columbia, South Carolina. Now, 2021, as per a report, Richard had settled in on the Carolina coast, and he got married and has children of his own now. Oh, boy. Richard fucking got out and started a family. Yeah.

Wow. Reason to keep him out of trouble. Holy shit. Now, Bambi. Yeah. Okay. Bambi's on Instagram, everybody. Yeah.

and she thinks that she definitely thinks that she can communicate with ghosts oh boy yeah bambi's a ghost whisperer is what she's a party oh yeah on her instagram it says her name and then says wife mama nana paranormal investigator she's a nana a nana which i mean christ she had kids in

Yeah, the kids are in their 30s, so that makes sense. Was she born in the 50s? She was born in 71. 71. So she's 53 years old at this point. Makes sense. How old?

53 if it's 71? Yeah, you're right. Yeah, 53. So, yeah, she has 934 followers, though, so not a ton of people are buying her shit. She's doing all right. She has almost as many posts as followers. Okay, that's not good. 891 posts, 934 followers. That's not great. Oh, Bambi. That's a lot. Now, Diane is...

and both she and Charlie are buried at the Hillcrest Cemetery in Conway there. I think they're buried together. They are. I've seen their stone buried together. Now, here's the part I'm glad we have time for because I wanted to get to this. The other Richard Gagnon's

That are murderers. This is crazy. There's like multiple guys. If your name is Richard Gagnon, you might kill somebody. Murder is going to be it's going to touch your life. I don't know. It's because everybody picked on you. I guess your entire life. How does someone how do you have dick and gag in your name and have no one pick on you? Like it's going to happen. Yeah, it's impossible to sidestep that. Now, there's a guy in Vermont, a murderer up there who I thought we talked about him.

That's how the Gagnon name popped into my head. I think we talked about the Vermont guy. He killed people at a co-op thing. Anyway, there's another guy in Texas named Richard Gagnon who in November of 2013, as all of this shit was going on and bubbling, if you search Richard Gagnon, it pops up everywhere for murder, all different murders.

In November of 2013, he killed Brent Ryder with a 12-gauge shotgun to the chest. My Christ. In the affidavit, Gagnon claimed that he shot this guy to protect himself and his mother. He's in his early 20s. He said when the guy started walking toward him, he closed his eyes and pulled the trigger.

However, the sheriff's office obtained the arrest warrant said that Gagnon did not see this guy ever hit his mother, only heard it from the bedroom. What difference does it make? Beating's a beating. I don't care if I see it or not. It's a witness, right? The affidavit stated that the woman didn't have any visible injuries other than a small abrasion under her right eye. You know, an injury. He only punched her once in the face. She didn't have any injuries except for that injury.

It's a dumb thing to say. You could say she had one injury. In addition, the affidavit stated that Ryder lived at the residence and there was no previous history of Ryder assaulting this guy's mother. Conversely, there is a history of this guy, Gagnon, assaulting his mother. There's been multiple police interactions for him assaulting his mother, not this guy assaulting his mother. Oh, my God.

So in the opening statement in court, the prosecutor told the jury that this Brett Ryder guy moved in with Gagnon's mother after Gagnon's father died. He said at some point Deborah Gagnon told this Ryder guy that she did not want him doing drugs while her son Richard was at the house.

Just don't smoke crack in the living room while my son's here, please. Please don't do that. The prosecutor told the jurors that an argument resulted and Richard Gagnon claimed he saw this man hit his mother and that's when Richard shot the guy. Martin, the prosecutor, continued and said that Gagnon's story changed each time he talked with a different detective. He would completely have a new story to tell. Oh, I'll try this one out on you.

He said when Detective Ricky Childress got on the scene, Gagnon said he went in the room to tell Ryder to stop and his mom said, shoot, so I shot. He continued and said in a third statement, Gagnon said there was an argument and it was an accident.

And then in a fourth statement, Gagnon once again changed his statement to something else. Yeah, whichever one benefits me best, that's what happened. What do you guys think? You've heard all four. What do you guys think is best for me to say? It's the best draft. Which one was most believable to you guys? Let's put it that way. He told the jury that they will see evidence that shows Gagnon shot Ryder at close range through the upper chest with a 12-gauge.

He said it's important to make sure the story lines up with the physical evidence. I don't think the statements made by Richard Gagnon are true. The defense attorney said that just because Richard Gagnon had done some bad stuff in the past doesn't mean he committed a crime in this particular instance. But prior bad acts are literally how they – that's kind of part of it. Kind of part of it. His defense attorney claimed it was self-defense.

He said he knew Ryder was a bad guy. He knew Ryder was dangerous on drugs. And that day he was on drugs. Add all that together and you have a bad situation. He was in defense of his mother. Sure. One detective here said that he first met Richard Gagnon when he was brought in for a burglary charge in August of 2013. Separate, totally separate thing. Yeah.

This cop said he asked me if I could help him. I said I could help. I said I could if he could help us on some cases. So this guy said that he knew Richard Gagnon didn't like Ryder when he moved in. The cop said he was concerned when this guy was around. All his mom did was drink and get drunk. He didn't like that. He thought he might be on parole and was not checking in with his officer. So he was saying that Ryder, it's your mom's business if she wants to drink with this guy, though. You're an adult. Move out of the house.

So they said that it took time for Richard Gagnon to get a full ID on him. He said that he couldn't not get him until he knew for sure that he had a warrant, the cop said, meaning the guy. I guess Richard was finally able to get a pay stub. The cop said he ran that stuff and was able to confirm it was him. And I told Richard that we would get him. So Richard told the cop, this guy's on parole doing drugs at my fucking house. Right. And the cop said, cool, we'll arrest him.

We'll come get him. Okay. He said that he told the cops that he told Richard Gagnon that when Ryder came home for lunch for him and his mom to make an excuse to leave the house so they would not be there when detectives showed up to kick the door down and get him because they'd have to they'd have to put them on the ground, too.

So this cop said, Gagnon texted me that him and his mom, that his mom and Ryder were arguing. At the time, we had a call for a felony theft, so I had to go there. While on scene, meaning another place. Yeah. While on scene, I got a call from Gagnon, but I couldn't understand him. A few minutes later, we got a radio call about a shooting in the Indian Springs area, and that's when I put the two and two together. So there was a cop that was going to come to the house and take this guy out in cuffs that day. Yeah.

Unless this guy was literally trying to murder his mother, there's no reason to shoot him, really. What the fuck is happening? What is up with this name? It's this fucking name. This cop said that Richard Gagnon told him his mom was scared because Ryder claimed to have ties to the Aryan Brotherhood and that she was scared he would get someone to hurt them for turning him in.

Well, now you can't go to prison. Unless you're in prison, don't worry about it. Well, I don't know. You just killed an AB. You don't want to be a part of that in prison. Oh, boy. That's the only place where those guys have fucking power is prison. Yeah, but if you shot one and you're going to go to prison about it, you're in a lot of trouble. You're in a lot of shit. No, absolutely. But he's saying that...

It's weird that he said he would get someone for to hurt him where from prison or when he gets out and then he goes back. That's what it have to be. So they said that the lawyer asked the cop if it was true that he told Richard Gagnon that writer would be in jail by the next day and he would be gone for good. And the cop said, yes, I absolutely told him that. I'll make sure he never comes back there again. What the fuck?

So the cop agreed that the plan did evolve over time for how they were going to get him. Then the cop recalled the phone call and told Brown, the lawyer, that he was not sure that Richard Gagnon's what the call was about because the call was distorted. Deborah Gagnon had told had told the the judge or the judge that her son began using drugs mainly after his father died from cancer.

She said she recalled meeting Ryder, that guy, in August of 2013, and she said they took a trip to Houston and met some friends. Debra said, it seems suspicious, but when I got back to Livingston, I found out we went to Houston to a bar for a drug buy. He took her for like an interstate drug buy, but didn't let her know that that's what they were doing. Debra said she was strongly against drugs and felt ashamed that she had done drugs with Ryder one time. I felt ashamed that I...

One time. Oh, I brought shame upon my home. One time. Really? Once he did it? Deborah also said that after Ryder was kicked out of where he was staying, she allowed him to come stay with her. She said it was myself, him, my brother and my son living there.

Interesting crew. Deborah said she believed Richard Gagnon just wanted her to be happy and that she didn't know if there was any reason for her son to not like Ryder. So she's saying, not like he beat me all the time and my son had had it. Deborah said that the beginning she was happy. She also said Richard and Ryder were good to each other. She said the things we did together as a group was go swimming, but things with them were drug use. Ryder started seeking a relationship with Richard because he knew Richard would be able to get him drugs.

So Deborah told the court that Richard was interested. This is the best line. Told the court that Richard was interested in meth and synthetic marijuana. Interested in it. It's got a passing fancy, a hobby. Tell me everything you know about these.

interested in it is very funny you're interested in like you know 18th century art or fishing or something like that it's a weird thing to be interested in yeah or the evolution of the uh c10 because i want to buy one but yeah whatever the fuck it is so deborah said that the relationship between her son and rider turned sour once rider started using drugs on a regular basis

So they asked Debra about the purchase of a shotgun, and she said, I bought it sometime in October. So she bought the shotgun. She said it was a 12-gauge, but she doesn't remember if it was a pump. She said, BJ, that's Ryder, the victim, talked me into buying the gun. He said our home was at risk of the Aryan Brotherhood, and we could be shot up at any time. We're going to need a 12-gauge around here. We're going to need a 12-gauge. So he basically forced her to buy his murder weapon that he's killed with.

Please buy me something that will kill me. Jesus. Deborah said she bought the gun in her name with her money because Richard wasn't supposed to have a gun because he was on deferred adjudication. Oh, my God. Jesus Christ.

Deborah continued that she never saw Richard with the gun in an argument and that, yeah, that asked Deborah to go through November 6th in her head, the murder day. She said, I went to work early that day. I left early because I was sick. Richard called me and told me Ryder had a blue warrant and was considered armed and dangerous. He asked me not to come home. She said she got home anyway at about 3 p.m. that day. She didn't listen.

She said that when she got home, Ryder was in the driveway with his boss from work. And Debra said, when I got out of the car, he tried to argue with me. I said I was sick and needed to lay down. I went inside and he followed me. He started to argue with me in the bedroom and he threw an ashtray at me, threw an ashtray at me.

Which is a lot. Is that where the eye injury came from? I probably, I don't know. She didn't say it hit her, but I must have. She said he threw an ashtray at me. He eventually settled down and I took a shower. She said that her other son came over to get a table and after he left, the argument continued. She said he came outside and started yelling at me and said he was angry the relationship was over. He kept getting more and more angry and picked up a radio to hit me, but he didn't. He'll just pick up anything and use it as a weapon.

A radio is a terrible weapon, but he's going to use it. Anything that's hard near me. Hard plastic, metal, I don't care. Getting her with a fucking computer mouse over and over again. But he didn't hit me. After he put it down, I took it and went inside with it to put it up. He came inside and got in my face like nose to nose. He gets really close to my face and starts talking ugly. He started talking about my dead husband and how would I feel having my brother executed in my bed.

What? I told him that he has to go. He's threatening to kill her family. No more talking or arguing was going to change that and that he had to go immediately. Debra said he got angry and started kicking boxes of stuff across the room.

I stood up and said he wasn't going to intimidate him or me. I told him I was going to call the cops. Then I thought twice and said, I'm just going to leave. He grabbed my hand and started hitting me with his other hand. Everything happened really fast. I don't know which hand. I don't know what he had in his hand. She said she couldn't remember whether he was hitting her with an open hand, an open hand or a fist.

She said, next I could hear my son say, stop hitting my mom. He yelled it loudly. And that she told the court here that she probably left that out of her statement to begin with because she was shocked and traumatized. But now she's saying something that's very helpful to her son in a murder beef. She never said that before, but at trial she's like, stop. He just wanted the guy to stop hitting his mom.

So anyway, he's convicted of that killing. He's not self-defense because he definitely did it. And he's got all sorts of other problems. So that's what I'm saying. And now he's in trouble with DAB in prison probably. I wouldn't imagine he couldn't be. Yeah, he probably is. Nothing else just for a stupid name. Right. So there you go, everybody. That is the tale of two Richard Gagnons. Yeah. Had to squeeze that in at the end because –

That fucker was haunting me every time I was looking shit up about the other Gagnon. I'm like, which one is this? Because it's 2013. Things are all happening at once. Right.

Our exonerated Richard Gagnon, by the way, they're talking about I don't know if it ever got resolved, but they were talking about how he would be compensated from the state. Oh, because he was held because he wants to basically sue for wrongful conviction. Sure. Yeah. They were saying we could refile the charges at any time. That's to hold off from him being able to sue.

Yeah, so at the end of it all, it was just a random guy that killed people, huh? Random guy? He was attached by the business, but it's still a random guy that just did a random thing. Random guy, never knew anybody, never knew them. All he probably heard was from that one guy, and they never charged the other guy, too. So I don't even know if this is true, but they probably heard from that one guy, I work at this place, they have shit in their house. They make good money. I bet they have stuff to steal. That's all. Holy shit.

In the end, it's only one guy. It's Bruce Antoine Hill. I feel bad for Bambi, honestly, in the end of all this. Yeah, that poor lady's life is fucked. Dude, sure, her fucking mom and her stepdad died. Yeah.

And she got blamed for it. A lot of people think she was still involved in it, even though Gagnon even has been cleared. A lot of people still blame her for this shit. And now she thinks she can talk to ghosts. And it's driven her so fucking crazy that she's trying to talk to ghosts on Instagram. That's Christ. That's how far Bennett. And now it's something else, too. She's got a different what the fuck is. I'll find it. But it's been it's something else now. You don't go looking. Just leave her alone.

Oh, no, don't. Leave her alone. She's been through enough. Like I said, her level of wacky, if I talk to ghosts, fine, great. But you know what? What you've been through, if that makes you feel better, terrific. You've been through a lot. And Richard, too...

Turns out he might be a dick and everything back in the day, but I don't think he had anything to fucking do with this. He didn't have shit to do with it. He's just some poor bastard who went to jail for 10 fucking years for nothing. That is shitty, dude. That's so bad. That's so fucked. So there you go, everyone. A major plot twist to this story. And God, some of these articles, too, are just...

Just vicious. Yeah. To Richard and Bambi, like, these horrible people, and she's an ungrateful twat. And it was like, oh, my God. People were fucking livid. So if you like that story, you should tell everyone about it. You can do that very easily. First of all, tell people you know. Yeah. Tell your friends. Post on social media. Do shit like that. That's a good way to do it. And if you still want to help us out even more...

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Take 30 seconds, drop a fucking these guys are funny and five stars. That would be terrific. It really would help us out a lot, honestly. So it's a good thing to do. Do that. Also, you can follow us on social media. We are at Small Town Murder on Instagram. We are at Murder Small on Twitter and at Small Town Pod on Facebook. Find us there and get all the updates on everything. You definitely want to go to shutupandgivememurder.com, my friends.

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Take it in good health. So this week, which you're going to get for Crime and Sports, we are going to talk about the Vince McMahon documentary. I almost forgot there. The Vince McMahon documentary we're going to talk about. And there's some very specific things in there. It won't be a lot about wrestling at all. Don't worry if you're not a sports fan. It'll be a lot about...

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But there's some more pictures and shit. Let's see what Ted thinks of a bunny rabbit skipping through a field. Let's see what dark spin he can put on that shit. So check all of that out and more at patreon.com slash crime in sports. And you get a shout out at the end of the show, which happens right goddamn now. Jimmy, hit me with the names of the most wonderful fucking people in the world who get awesome Patreon content every other week. Hit me with them right now.

This week's executive producer, Jordan Bennett and Gary Howard. Thank you both so much. Hey, thank you, Jordan and Gary. We appreciate you guys. You guys are the best. Other producers this week are Peyton Meadows, Janice Hill, Cody Leversey, Stephen Fitzsimmons. I think it's just Steve Fitzsimmons. P-I-A-P-T-K. I'm not sure what that stands for. I'm sure it's an acronym for something. Kelsey Insaner. It's got to be Insaner. I'm Insaner than you.

Kelsey is insane. No, I'm insane. I don't believe you. She got a birth certificate for it. Crystal Metcholtz, Courtney Hoffman, Lena, Lena, Lena, maybe Mills, Jeff Adamski, Adamski, Paula Reynolds, Linda with no last name, Lacey Wells, Brandon Lyons, Amanda Labreck.

Yeah. William with no last name. Eric Olson. Ada Sopko. Steven Peril. Aaron Jensen. Britt with no last name. Renee with no last name. Elizabeth Aquino. Kat with no last name. Richard Gagnon. Gagnon? I don't know. Gaggonon? Yeah, that name always fucks me up. It's fucked. It's so brutal. As comedians, we just want to say Gaggonon it, and that's not how we're... And his name is Richard. It's probably not his real name. I doubt it's Dick Gaggon. I'm sure it's not that.

Gwendolyn Chambers, Chelsea Headley, Lauren Thorpe, Brian Stoneburner, Rachel Kibbe, Donna Straley, Veronica Mendoza, Amber would know the last name, Boobray, Megan Icarino, Mary would know the last name, Linda DuPois, Lauren

Lauren with no last name. Amanda with no last name. Jamie Thomas, probably. It might be Tomes. Alexandra Awada. Bethany Marantos. Courtney Acevedo. Sphinx with no last name. Russell Moore.

I think that's Minnesota. Okay.

Uh, not going to work here anymore. Shible. Not going to work here. Victor Cole, a TJ ask. Ren Liz would know last name. Becca Bolin, Joey Rediger, Rediger, Rediger, uh, Tara Brock, Jolene, Willie, uh,

Wiley, maybe wild. Perhaps Eli would know last name. Wheezy lamb, Laura, Laura Moore, Pamela Marsh, uh, Danielle Corker on, uh, Michelle Wilson. Leslie would know last name. Tasha, Arthur, Anthony Nielsen, Carrie Mullins, and Fenster Mocker. Uh, Lori, Lori Sheldstad, Sheldstad, uh,

Riley Filner, Aaron Thornton, Bad Taste. I know that one. Jill Perry, Don D. Joe Perry, Aerosmith guitarist. Joe Perry's giving us money now? Jill Perry, his wife or daughter possibly. Earl's daughter, Jenny Schaub. Give me some of that Janie's got a gun money. Let's go.

I'll go crazy. Constance Ellen, uh, Carmen Rusnak, Rusnak, Rusnak, uh, Josh Chastain, Lauren Davies, Ashley Garo, uh, Grox, perhaps it's probably Jero, uh, Sophie, Sophia Smith, Janelle R, Douglas Heckert, uh, Clara, uh, Ali, perhaps, uh,

Drew McCarson, perhaps. Big Jer. It's a tough day today. Jesus Parada. Erica with no last name. Susan Walker. Archna? Arachna. Arachna.

Renee Dominguez. Rachel with no last name. Tyler Espinosa. Michael Watts. Dennis Falk. Dane Thompson. Stephanie Tools. Lyra Smith. Cassandra Kaufman-Rapini. Katie Rustman. Roostman. Taylor with no last name. Leia. This person's real name is Leia. I'm likely named after the princess. Somebody had a fan. Right? Someone's dad was a...

Yeah. At the theater. Big fan. Mr. Seth Shakin, Saf Shakin, Saf Shakanon, or Bishop. One of those two people loves Princess Leia. Tyler Baxey, Megan Bell, Namowski, Hot Vapor, Melanie McGarva, Kevin Ives,

Adam Smiley, Jeffrey Pope, Amanda Kunkel, Kunkel probably, Vanessa Shado, Shadow perhaps, Kayla Sasser, Kara and Jeff, Full Metal Lack 15? Metal Lack.

I don't know. I don't know what we're doing there. I don't know what the whole point of that is. I don't know where we are right now. All right. Julie Putney, Heather White, Wine. Oh, Heather Wine, Christina Sanfilippo. No name. Oh, no name. No first or last name at all, James. Not even first. Kelly would know last name, though. Liz would know last name. Mandy Amendinger, Amanda.

Amanda Armendinger. That's it. Elvira Irwin. Ryan Mantle. Hanzo Beefton. Probably not. Kevin Hozier. Like the singer that we used to know them. Taylor Christensen. Chelsea Slack. Brandon with no last name. Joseph Jarrell. Christopher Mountcastle. Andrea Ranka. Jarvis Rinkle.

Addison Teague, you. That's who it is. Kevin Colfer, Ramona Algerian, you, Algerian. Jessica, you. Stephen Clark, or Cook, rather, you. Erica Piniella, Jesse Bruner, and Crystal. She's not a stripper, although there's nothing wrong with that. Thank you all so much, and all of our patrons. You guys are the best.

Thank you so much, everybody. You magnificent, wonderful sons of bitches. We love you so much. Thank you. Jordan Bennett and Simon's anniversary. They've been married for 20 years. That's what you wanted me to say. Happy anniversary. I'm a piece of shit. Sorry about that, Jordan. Happy anniversary, you two. They come from different continents, and they're still together, and they love it. They're a fun couple. We like them a lot. So happy, happy, happy to Simon and Jordan. There you go. Thank you so much, everybody. If you want to follow us, head over to shutupandgivememurder.com.

Drop down menus will lead you anywhere you need to be. And until next week, it's been our pleasure. Bye.

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