#502 - Runaway Husband - Walton, New York
01:11:06 Share

Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show and tell you a little bit more about one of our favorite things ever, Audible. Oh, audible.com or that app. The app is great, and I'm on the app constantly. Listening to Audible helps your imagination soar.

No.

There's more to imagine when you listen. And I'll tell you something that has set both Jimmy and I's imagination soaring. And that is the Lewis and Clark journals. We're both really into these right now. And as an Audible member, you can choose one title a month to keep from the entire catalog, including the latest bestsellers, the newest releases. New members can try Audible free for 30 days. Visit audible.com slash smalltownmurder or text

smalltownmurder to 500-500. That's audible.com slash smalltownmurder or text smalltownmurder to 500-500. Now back to the show. Music

Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit about Angie. Oh, Angie.com. A-N-G-I.com. Absolutely. Angie. Good stuff. Angie's List is now Angie, the nation's largest home services marketplace, and they're here to help homeowners get all their jobs done well.

Angie, yes, they've helped over 150 million homeowners care for their homes. Whenever the project, big, small, indoor, outdoor, come to Angie, you understand, we both own homes and projects are difficult. And they pile up. They pile up, and Angie makes tackling the project simple from start to finish. Get started on the app, or you can go to Angie.com. That is A-N-G-I dot com. Get your job done well with Angie today.

And now back to the show. Hey, Prime members. Have you heard? You can listen to your favorite podcasts ad-free? Good news. With Amazon Music, you have access to the largest catalog of ad-free top podcasts included with your Prime membership. To start listening, download the Amazon Music app for free or go to amazon.com slash ad-free podcast. That's amazon.com slash ad-free podcast to catch up on the latest episodes without the ads. ♪

Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yeah, choo-choo. Oh, yay indeed, Jimmy. Yay indeed. My name is James Petrogallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today. All aboard the murder train. Hop on, punch your tickets, and do all that good old-timey stuff, because we are...

Pulling away from the station with some crazy, crazy murder today. This is a real weird one we got for you. We're coming hard. We're trying to make every week be better than last week. That's what we want to do and what we've been trying to do for years. And so hopefully we're doing that. But before we get started, very quickly, shutupandgivememurder.com, the place to go for everything that involves the show, merchandise, tickets for live shows especially. Oh, most important.

That's right. You're up next. Minneapolis, September 20th. This will be our biggest show ever if you sell this out. You can beat Chicago. It's going to be great. Holy shit. We can't wait. We're so excited. Next night is Milwaukee and that's at the Pabst, which is a beautiful place. It's just about sold out. Two big shows back to back. Two tickets left there. Minneapolis, it's the State Theater and it's a

beautiful theater. My God. We're so excited for it. So get your tickets there. Shut up and give me murder.com. Also Oklahoma city, Kansas city. We added extra tickets for that. So those are available now. You got Austin, you got New York, you got Boston, get them all right now. Cause they're going fast. Thank you so much for doing that. Patreon.com slash crime and sports.

bonus material, all sorts of stuff. It's so much flowing like water. Anybody, five bucks a month or above, you get everything. The whole back catalog, hundreds of episodes and new ones every other week. This week is no different. You get one crime in sports, one small town murder, and you get it all. You get it all. This week for crime in sports, nothing to do with sports, a lot to do with death. It is industrial disasters we're going to talk about. It's crazy. Just people getting melted by molten steel. It's insane. Yeah.

Whole reason OSHA exists. It's wild. Oh, yeah. And a lot of these are from other countries where you're like, oh, my God. There's no regulations for that. And then for small town murder, we're going to talk about a very weird tale, the cannibal cop story, if you remember from about 10 years ago, a little bit more. Very weird.

Very weird. We'll delve into it. Did this guy actually want to do anything? Was he trying to do something? Was he some kind of weird fantasy writer? We'll figure it all out there. We'll talk about it. Patreon.com slash crime in sports is where you get all of that. And you get a shout out at the end of the regular show, too. So that's a lot of fun. You'll get your name mispronounced. Everybody wants that.

It's like getting your weight guessed at a carnival. Like, you know they're not going to get it right, and you know you're not going to get the name right either because names are hard. I'm telling you, they are difficult. So I sympathize with you. That said, I think it's time, everybody.

I think it's time, wherever you are, I think it's time to sit back, ignore the surroundings. I don't care where you are. Where are you? At an ear, nose, and throat doctor's waiting room? It doesn't matter. A bunch of people sniffling and snorting around you. I want you to stand up, throw your arms to the sky, and let's all shout, Shut up and give me murder. Let's do this, everybody. Okay. Let's go on a trip, shall we?

Let's do it. We are going to New York this week. Oh, fantastic. So not too far of a trip for us here. We are going to Walton, New York.

which I have never heard of. No. At first I was like, oh, Walden? No, no, Walton. It's farther. It's like kind of central New York is the best, like south central New York, kind of near the Pennsylvania border-ish in that region. We've never really done this region. It's always been the western over by Rochester and Buffalo or we've done one in the capital region, but Long Island, Hudson Valley, that sort of thing. But we're going here. It's about an hour to Binghamton.

That's where the area is. About three hours to New York City if there's no traffic. And then three hours the other way to Penfield, New York. That's our last episode. We were in New York, episode 457, The Kinky Killer. I'm proud of that. Yeah. So three hours to New York City, three hours to the Rochester area. So this is kind of right in the middle of the state here. Population 5,260.

That's a good amount of people, yeah. Yeah, and this is kind of like farmland idyllic. This is like when you drive through central Pennsylvania, this is what this looks like. It's that sort of thing where it looks like shit would grow there. Big balls of grass. Big grass fucking spools. Yeah, spools. Yeah, big spools of grass you'd call it. It looks like a big fruit roll-up, like a big grass roll-up. Yeah, big grass pinwheel. There you go. Median household income here, much lower than the national average. It's $45,250.

Average is about $70,000. Median home price, though, same thing, way low, $165,900. What is happening here? I'm telling you, this is the land time forgot in this area. It's wild. The town motto here, and this might tell you why, because it's sparse. We'll put it that way. The scarecrow capital of the world. So you know there's a lot of fields, because you don't have scarecrows without fields. So that's what it tells you.

When's the last time you saw one of those in the wild? Just like not being sarcastic, like a real one? Yeah, not being ironic. One that's actually meant to scare crows away? I don't know. I'm not on a lot of farms, I guess. I haven't seen one in a minute. It's been a bit, yeah, I've got to say. History of this town, a little bit of history of this town here. The town, I guess, people came here after the American Revolution, right?

Because people in the city were pissed off at each other about some of them were British supporters and some of them were loyalists to the king and some of the people were from colonists and they didn't like each other. So some people moved out to here to get away from people they didn't like.

essentially. Okay. Yeah. So like, yeah, like political movement here. Weird. So the town was formed in 1797 by the New York state legislature. First town meeting was held in a log church in

In 1890 or 1797, William Walton, who it's named after, was a wealthy New York City merchant who owned a lot of property in New York City. Tell me this is named after Bill Walton. Yeah. Bill Walton. He came here with his hook shot and everything. Hell yeah. Big Irish weird. And he averaged 12 rebounds a game. So we were impressed with the guy. I got to be honest with you.

This is the timely rest in peace. It got to happen. Yeah, yeah. He did die. Walton is the birthplace of William B. Ogden. Everybody from here is named William, by the way. It's one of the rules. William Ogden is the first mayor of Chicago. So there you go. So reviews of this town. Four stars. Here we go. Walton is a great neighborhood free from violence. The people here are very polite and friendly.

Well, that's not true. That's not true at all. I go to school every day and meet so many nice people that make my day a lot better. This is a child. There's such great traveling access. She can go anywhere. It takes forever to get anywhere. There's a road. There's roads out. They have roads out of this town.

I love how four stars. We have roads. Hey, look at that. You can get out. The scenery is very beautiful and relaxing. I sit in the bus every day on my way to school admiring the beautiful trees and plants and buildings in Walton.

What a fucking nerd. This person just stares out the door. They're not trying to make friends, fuck around, burn the seat with a lighter and make a smiley face. They're not doing anything that you're supposed to do on a bus. Just smoke a cigarette, bud. Yeah, you could do it in the back row with the window open. We used to smoke weed back there, for Christ's sake. The neighborhood does have some loudness when it comes to cars.

During the night, the car can be very loud, waking me up from my sleep. There's a car that goes by that wakes me up. That's what the one star taken away from. There's one person in town with a loud car. Somebody bought some Borla exhaust and it's annoying. Wow. Oh, shit. Two stars. Walton is a small country town. It has a very friendly, homey feeling. There are many active citizens who play a vital part in the community. What it needs...

though, here we go, is to upgrade to have small business growth.

there are not many job opportunities available many graduates have to leave the area to go to school and then seek a job because it's a small fucking town it's a farm town if you want to farm right and its location has like it's made it nearly impossible for the economic growth it's so far from everything yeah it's in the middle of nowhere and that's all it is is there's just where are you awesome but it sucks it's nice if you work from home you know what i mean like you

You know, if you can zoom to your job, then great. Yeah, fuck it. You can make a well-paying job. But if it's a fucking shit job, then you're stuck, man. You're kind of stuck there. Things to do. Here it is. The Porch Fest.

Yeah. Porch Fest. Porch sitting capital of the world. Well, Porch Fest concerts are held throughout North America in over 125 locations. And this year, Delaware County residents will have the opportunity to experience it right in their backyard. Oh, they got their own. A variety of musicians will perform on front porches or at other venues in the area. And visitors can walk from venue to venue to experience music, different music genres and performers.

Now, there's not a lot of different music genres. I'll put it that way. It's a lot of country. Mainly one particular music genre. But they have all of this. The Open Horse Show they have. That is not music. That's just a show. The Open Goat Show, which sounds crazy. Don't know. Crazy, man. Vesper Service is one of the bands that we'll be playing. Then they have an Open Meat Goat Show. So you got that.

Oh, meat, M-E-E-T. No, no, no, meat. Like these are goats that we kill for meat.

These are like goats you eat. These goats. There's a whole exhibition on canning tomatoes. So if you want to figure that out, we're going to talk to, or not talk to, hear from Buffalo Barfield, which is a band. There's just an illusionist in the entertainment court. Don't even tell you who he is. He's pulling shit out of hats, though. There is also a The Driftwoods, and then it says country in parentheses. We...

We inferred. Thank you. Really? Driftwoods. About rappers? No, I would expect that. The Nate Gross Band, who is blues and southern rock, will be there. Yeah, yeah. The Singing Oldies' Mary Frances Perricone will be there. God damn it. And finally, the Beatle Brothers, B-E-A-D-L-E, the Beatle Brothers, who sing Today's Country and More. Oh, yeah. And they claim to be high energy.

Also yesterday's and probably the day before that. And also tomorrow's. They're going to get your boots a-tapping, I'd say. You betcha. High energy. And also Cowboy Circus will be there, whatever the fuck that is. Clowns for the rodeo? I think it's a band.

Oh, nice. Yeah, it's a band named Cowboy Circus. Just like Rodeo Cowboys? So that said, if there's no murders at this event besides goats. There should be. There should be. I don't like meat your dinner. I don't want that. I don't like that at all. They also have meat for cows, too. So that said, let's talk about a murder. What do you say here? Let's do it. Let's do it. Here we go. Let's introduce ourselves to some people. Mm-hmm.

Howdy, folks. Here we go. Hi there, Randy Sundstrom. Step on up. Randy Sundstrom, born in 1963, Randy is. Randy is from Roscoe, which is another town around here. Yeah, up here. He's one of three children. His parents were farmers.

Charles and Florence. Florence the farmer. He joined the army in 1981 after he graduated from high school. Served two years in the army because he didn't really know what to do. One of those people who doesn't really have any interest in college at the time. And he's more into mechanical things and not a lot of jobs. So they joined the army and there was a couple years to kill to figure it out. He then came home and operated a small engine repair shop.

So that's what he was doing. Small engines? Small engines. Small engine repair shop. Yeah. Basically, it's the place where Billy Bob Thornton works in Sling Blade, I picture. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's Briggs and Stratton's. It's not like small 273. It's like lawnmowers, I feel like. I'll get that mower humming again. And then you pay him in French fried potatoes, and it's all...

It's all good. It's a good day there. 1989 here. He's got several girlfriends, Randy. Randy's not at the same time or anything, but Randy, you know, he's got a girl here, girl there. The ladies don't hate him. Put it that way. You know what I mean? Handsome guy and everything. He's got his own job. He's got his own company. He ends up going and working for other places we'll talk about. I don't think this really...

As in Sling Blade, which it didn't look like a real lucrative business going on there. It doesn't. Fixing like one lawnmower every three days. I don't know how much that you can charge for that. It looks like they bring the mower in and he says, yeah, give me a couple days with it. Then in two days he says, nope, flat broken, can't even repair it. They're like, all right, then you just hang on to that. I'll go buy a new one.

And then he hangs it on the wall. He has a storage room full of old lawnmowers and he lets... Irreparable shit. He lets mentally challenged murderers sleep in it.

Which makes a lot of sense. That he uses them to make weapons. If you've never seen Sling Blade, we just described it. That's it. But it's a great movie. That's the crazy part. It's fantastic. It's a great movie. So watch it if you haven't seen it. You're looking for something good. So 1989, he's got this girlfriend and he knocks her up. Yes. Gets her pregnant and fathers a child with her. This is in...

89-ish. So it's a daughter. Her name's Mindy. And he ends up just taking off when she's about a year old. He's done. He's done. Well, not just to run away from the child, but for another woman. He meets a woman that he likes, and he moves like 30 miles away, but never talks to or sees that kid ever again. 30 miles down the road and never sees her. Well, she'll tell you exactly how, but basically that she...

She like didn't even she got like a couple of birthday cards here and there. Send her a gift card for high school graduation.

That's pretty much it. Like nothing else. Like a necklace for a birthday one time. But not like never picked her up or gave her a ring or nothing. Oh, my God. So that's rough, man. Yeah, no ice cream, just those two things. Oh, no, no. Not even a pick up and we'll stop on the way and get you a necklace and get some ice cream. It just came in the mail. She was like, oh, I guess that's from Dad. Wow. The woman that he left for is named Deborah Ryman.

And R-I-E-M-A-N is her last name. She's a couple years younger, but same ballpark. She's also from the area around here. Her parents are William and Sandra. And she has three siblings, two sisters and a brother. And she graduated from high school. And she grows up in Walton. So this is like her main hometown and graduates from high school in Walton in 1984. Wow.

And so Randy takes off. OK, Walton is about 30 miles away from Livingston Manor, which is where his girlfriend and his baby are. So the daughter here said, quote, I didn't really know him. He wasn't around till I was about two. That's when he met Deborah and moved to Walton. And I didn't see him again.

Rambling man. That's it. He sent a piece of rolling stone. He sent a few birthday cards, a necklace for Christmas one year, and a gift card when I graduated from high school. That was it. That's the sum total of his parental involvement in her life. That's her relationship with her dad. Wow. That is rough, man. I hope she's getting some therapy there or she's going to end up with an asshole. Yeah. She said, from our belief, from everybody's belief, it was Debra that kept him away from me.

So that's what everybody says. Deborah did not want him having anything to do with that daughter. And he and Deborah don't have any kids either. So I don't know if she just isn't interested in kids and doesn't want kids around. It's not even that he's too busy with a bunch of other kids. Like we have three kids or I want you to pay attention to my kids or whatever it was. It's not like that. So these two end up buying a house. They end up buying a farmhouse, an old little farmhouse built in 1900.

on a half-acre lot, and it's a little tiny place, a little two-bedroom place, not a big place, but they fix it up all nice how they like it. It's at 1884 South River Road in Walton, and later on. I'll give you the Zillow stats on that at the end. Oh, yeah. Because I know everyone's, our people are like, let me look that up. I'm worth it. Yeah. So Deborah gets a job working with the Delaware County Social Welfare Agency. She works there for years and years.

Randy, for a long time, commuted to Oneonta, which is a good distance away. He worked in the warehouse for Drogon's Home Furnishings, which I've never heard of. Drogon's? That's a beautiful couch. What is that? Oh, it's a Drogon.

I got it from Drogans. Ew, what? Yeah, it sounds disgusting. Right? Sounds like there's like jizz in it. I don't want that, Gouch. Sounds like everything is ugly. Everything's ugly. Everything's green. Drogans, we specialize in the hideous. Drogans for shitty motel furniture. That's what they make. Motel furniture where bodily fluid stains won't show up.

Everything's cedar. Yeah, they have a special lab with like they put together patterns that don't show anything. They're like, we finally did it. This doesn't show blood, mud, semen, anything. It's amazing.

Making the most unsellable furniture. It's disgusting. Then he ended up getting a job at Scott Machine Corp, which is an engraving place. They do a lot of engraving. That's in Walton, so he didn't have to commute anymore. The place things remembered sends all their shit. Essentially, yeah, that. Because, yeah, the guy at the mall doesn't fucking do it. He doesn't do that. When you go up there, there's a 21-year-old chick selling you a Zippo.

She's not going to go in the back and engrave a message to your grandfather in there. It's not going to happen. Oh, we're going to throw this to FedEx. They're going to take it to Scott's in New York. They're going to take it to some hillbilly and he's going to carve it in it. That's how this is going to work. So by the late 90s, this couple gets into some weird shit, man.

Now, normally on this show, when I say they get into some weird shit, it's like the occult or, you know, they're having orgies or they're having like, you know, meth sex parties in a barn or something that are like sponsored by a local soda company or some weird shit. We get all sorts of weird shit. Bloodletting. Yeah. They're doing something even stranger, in my opinion. They begin an obsession with growing giant pumpkins.

Didn't expect that, did you? Yeah. Trying to figure out how big they can get this pumpkin. If you want to know where giant pumpkins come from, here is where they come from. This area is big in the giant vegetable fruit growing world. Really? Absolutely. They grow giant watermelons, but like competition level. Yeah. Shit for just weight and stuff like that.

This became their whole life. Like they want the best, biggest. Yeah. Remember when we had the guy in the box there that got found in the box of 40 feet away from the trailer, that lady, and they got real into that, like, uh, that shooting thing, like the target speed target shooting where they dressed up Western period. Yeah. That's what these people do except with pumpkins.

So it's very strange here. Randy was the founder and president of the New York State Giant Pumpkin Growers Association, the NYSGPGA.

That's a lot of letters on your shirt, sir. Randy, you should have picked a better acronym there, I think. That's not an acronym that you want to have there. Yeah, that's what they do. In 2004, he ended up telling the Daily Star newspaper that he found pumpkin growing habit-forming.

Because you get obsessed with growing the next one and the next one. And he said their goal, they said in 1999, they set a goal to break the state record for pumpkins. That's what they're going to do. They're going to be pumpkin champions. Oh, we'll go over all the pumpkin stuff. Don't worry. First of all, you need a pumpkin mentor. Yeah. Who's the big pump? Yeah. You can't just fly blind in this pumpkin fucking world, can you? No. No.

They have Bill Bobier. That's their pumpkin mentor. That's him. Well, he also owns a chimney cleaning business in the area as well. So that's what he does for his job. He's doing a Disney job as head gourd? He owns the business. I don't know if he gets all dusty and does fucking dances in the street with street urchins. I'm not sure if that happens or not. It could. Don't get me wrong. I'm not putting it past him.

With the shitty umbrellas. With the shitty umbrellas and just covered in soot. But he met them, and when Randy called him and said, listen, man, you don't know me, but I could really use some pumpkin guidance, and maybe you could hook me up. And the guy was like, no problem. And he became their pumpkin mentor and close friend. Unreal. He's the pumpkin whisperer, this guy. He's going to do it.

They would have barbecues at each other's homes and spend many days together at pumpkin way offs. That was everybody's weekend consists of getting trailers, loading your giant fucking pumpkins onto them and then trucking them to a way off and hanging out. That's their social life. They do it every weekend. Oh,

Yep. Every Christmas, Randy bought two collectible jackknives with pumpkin motifs. He would give the same one, identical knives, and he would give one to Bill and then keep one for himself. So every year they had one of those little heart necklaces. He put them together and it says Bill and Randy forever. It's really cute. Oh, my God.

That's really cute, isn't it? And adorable. Jackknives. Well, wow. Matching blades. Matching blades. Let's do it. Bill described Debra as always happy and smiling and as randy as a really great guy.

Just a terrific guy. Bill said, we never saw issues, so to speak, like between the couple. The couple was always getting along. He said, they always just seem perfect for each other. They were both into gardening, do-it-yourself. They were homebodies, homesteading type of things. It seemed like they really enjoyed doing stuff together, growing together, canning together, cooking together.

It's their whole life. They don't have any other activities that they do. He said, Randy was the type of guy that didn't burden anyone with his problems. He was outgoing with his friends, but he kept any problems to himself.

He's a gentleman. Yeah, he's the type of guy. That's a guy that people like generally. He's a good friend. Oh, yeah. Keep your personal shit out of this. We're having a beer. He's one of these guys. Good guy. Real funny. Good time. Wouldn't say shit if he had a mouthful. That's what some old redneck would say about him. Yeah.

That's exactly what they like. So their religion here, let's talk about. Okay. Not only do they have pumpkins, but dozens of tomato plants and other vegetables as well. They grow blueberries and grapes everywhere.

Yeah. This is not a half acre. This isn't a lot of land to be growing all this shit. Yeah. Are they praying to a sun god? I don't know. They didn't hang out at bars, didn't go to church, didn't go to, you know, social events other than that. Didn't go out to like dinner, just pumpkins and pumpkin related things. Their friend Bill said they gardened. That was their religion.

Gardening. Gardening. That's a religion I can get behind. Shit grows. Yeah. You're getting something. Things happen. There's a definite result. Giant pumpkin. For sure. Yeah. Giant pumpkin. That's something. I got a pie. That's amazing. 2007, they participate in the PBS, I believe it was on PBS, on the documentary Lords of the Gord. Oh, yeah. Yeah. This is one of those extreme, extreme pumpkinning, man.

So they say in this, lords of the gourd, viewers encounter offbeat and endearing growers who tend, pamper, and coddle their plants as if they are children, coaxing them to grow to unnatural size. Creeps. One pumpkin person said, I can't go anyplace. Someone will ask me, how's your pumpkin doing? He's a pumpkin celebrity. He's like, I can't even walk down the street. People just come up to me with pumpkin questions.

They said you have to test the soil frequently. You have to nourish it, water, fertilizer, and everything has to be measured very precisely when you're pumpkin growing. They said that the hefty squash turned gingerly and supported carefully when you're moving it. Yeah, you got to roll it. You got to do that. Some devoted disciples tuck their pumpkins in with blankets every night and greet them enthusiastically with a tape measure every morning. Wow.

What? Let's see how big you are, little pumpkin. It sounds like a comic book villain, like growing something that's going to eat the city. And it's like, oh, there you are, my darling. Look at you, getting hungry. You're going to eat everybody. Seymour didn't even measure. This is the first thing I thought of. It was Rick Moranis doing that, too. He's not out there checking it. Nope. There are rumors of creative techniques used by determined growers. They're on the juice, man. They're riding.

This is crazy. That's not natural. Look at all the pimples on it. Look at that fucking pumpkin. It looks like Barry Bond's head. What are we talking about here? A lot of bumps on that gourd. Oh, that's not right. People who'll go to any lengths to raise a winner, spraying the fruit with milk. Not milk. Oh, God. Now that's uncalled for.

Or injecting it directly into the flesh, cradling the pumpkin in its own hammock, talking to it. How's that illegal? That should be the standard. What's the problem? Surrounding the pumpkin patch with end-to-end mousetraps. Oh, to keep things from eating it, yeah. There'd be a lot of scared crows here, I bet.

Oh, you bet. A ton of them. Lord of the Gourd follows Joe Puccos and fellow competitors Bill Bobier. That's their guy. Bernie Potter, Deb and Randy Sundstrom. There they are. And Matt Verschneider. And through the final harrowing days of harvest. And then on the long journey cross state with the bulging behemoth strapped into the backs of their pickups.

Yeah, you got to be careful with it then. You don't want to hit a bump and crack that thing. No, fuck it all up. They have all these blankets under it. Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you about one of the safest sponsors you could ever see, SimpliSafe. SimpliSafe.com. S-I-M-P-L-I-S-A-F-E.com. Totally. And if you're anything like us, you think a lot about the security of...

Your self, your things, your family, the people you love is a big deal. And especially safety first, especially like I know for me personally, after we had the house we were selling got broken into and everything got messed up and the plumbing and all this stuff was like, oh, my thank you.

thankfully we weren't there and nobody got hurt or anything like that. But I knew at that point, got to get some security because the world is crazy and especially doing our shows, we understand that. And luckily for us, when this happened, we were already doing a podcast and I knew about SimpliSafe and

We happen to have the best security there is. SimpliSafe is the best, and we've trusted SimpliSafe to protect our home and our studios and everything else for years. And you know us. We're weird with research. I've researched. They are the best, by the way. Yeah. Protect your home this summer with 20% off any new SimpliSafe system when you sign up for Fast Protect Monitoring.

Just visit simplisafe.com slash small. That's simplisafe, S-I-M-P-L-I, safe.com slash small. There's no safe like SimpliSafe. Now back to the show.

Hey, everybody. Just going to take a quick break from the show to tell you a little bit more about one of our favorites, Quince. Oh, quince.com. Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com. That's right. And it's busy seasons. We're all going around. We're going everywhere in the summer. We're traveling. Your wardrobe's getting beat up a little bit. Let's be realistic here. We're not going to do, neither Jimmy or myself, we're not going to do total wardrobe overhauls here. This isn't like some sort of reality show. But you get...

a few things here to replace some stuff and that's what we're doing replacing some worn out stuff with some high quality essentials at a very affordable price from quince and that's what we've done and they have all the seasonal must-haves we got some cool stuff jimmy those linen pants oh they're so comfortable oh they are you

You went for the outer. I got some undershirts, which I like because you need a comfortable undershirt. And these are really comfortable and soft. And I got some sunglasses. You can do it, too. Upgrade your wardrobe with pieces made to last with Quince. Go to quince.com slash smalltownmurder for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. That's

Now back to the show. Pucos is a contender for the top prize until last-minute rumors circulate that another grower has a pumpkin that will break the world record.

At the Cooperstown way off, the massive gourds are hoisted one by one onto the scales and the moment of truth arrives. This is Ver Schneider says, you go to enough competitions and you can't help it. You're addicted. You do anything you can to hopefully come back with a larger one next year.

This is my penis I'm talking about. Now, pumpkins is a whole different thing. Right. So in 2008, the Sundstroms grew a pumpkin that weighed, how much do you think it weighed? I didn't know anything about this. I'd guess three, 400 pounds. 1,459 pounds.

That's what they grew. A 1,500. How do you fucking move that? That's what I mean. You need like a crane. Yeah, you got to have a hoist. A hoist and everything else. That was 10th in the United States that year, by the way. There were nine bigger. Nine bigger. I have a list of biggest pumpkins ever here. Oh, I can't wait. Quick sidetrack. In 1900, the biggest pumpkin was 400 pounds.

Yeah, that's it. That's right. It quickly grew. By 1990, the biggest pumpkin was 816 pounds. Double. It took 90 years to get to that. But then it's going to double from that real quick. It doesn't take 90 years. Then by 1999, 1,331 pounds. By 2000 and beyond, now 2006, 1,502 pounds.

Fuck. By 2014, 2,323 pounds. Who the hell grew that? Well, I'll tell you right now. Benny Meyer from Switzerland grew that. Nobody knows him. Nope. And then finally, Travis Geiger from Minnesota in 2023 grew a 2,749 pound pumpkin. That is the current world record.

Nobody knows him. Nobody's heard of him. Beating out Stefano Cutruppi from Italy, who has a 2,703 pounder. And he is furious. He is fucking, oh. I kick out some kind of a, I kick out some fire, son of a bitch. He's fucking screaming. Throwing things. Throwing shit. That is so big. That's so much. Calls the pumpkin a disgratsiad. Disgratsiad, ah, oh.

kicking holes in it son of a bitch all this time for nothing for nothing travis geiger says that uh he grows pumpkins he named the giant pumpkin before it you know set the record he named it michael jordan for its perfectly round shape like a big basketball and it looks great and it looks great he said the greatest basketball player of all time is now the greatest pumpkin of all time

What the fuck are you talking about? I don't know.

He said, I thought it was going to be a basketball round, but it's not. It grew into this. So there you go. He beat it. So that was his third time. He hauled a pumpkin all the way from Minnesota to one of the pumpkin weigh-offs in Half Moon Bay, which is south of San Francisco. He drove a pumpkin 2,000 miles. It's fucking insane. It was south of –

The grand prize he won, though, $30,000. Okay. That's worth it. How long does that take? A long time. And you have to have a day job. He operates a gas fire table business. What the fuck is that? Oh, he makes propane tanks in it. Yeah, for your patio. Those are pretty good. Yeah.

They are. Let's be honest. Our two opinions are clashing. Fucking douchey. Get the hell out of here with those things. It's nice to have a little table out front. I like it. Oh, there's a... It's always like douchey restaurants that have that on their patios. Yeah.

It's useless. Bad hotels. Yeah, you're not putting marshmallows on it. No. It doesn't warm. It doesn't do anything. It just sits outside of a home two suites while you fucking walk through the door. While you burn propane. He did say 30,000 isn't even the biggest deal. It's that they gave me a jacket. It's like for the masters, but probably more important. He's got his own.

It's got to be an orange jacket, right? It has to be bright orange. It fucking better be. It has to be. It has to be. So anyway, that's what's going on here. That's what they're doing. That's 2007.

2009, they're growing this crazy pumpkin. It should culminate in like a giant carving of that thing for Halloween, right? With Michael Jordan's face in it, absolutely. Fuck yeah. You could put some sick designs in that. Yeah, do the Jumpman logo. There you go. That's amazing. That's what it should be. So you think everything's going great for them. In 2009, they're 1,400-pound pumpkins. It's incredible, yeah. It's going great.

2010 comes around. You'd imagine this couple is just cooking along, man. Everything's the pies they have pumpkin pies coming out of their ass. Just all over the place. You just sell that thing to Costco, right? To make their pies. Just boom. All of it. That's all your pies. There you go. There you go. 3000 pounds. Get after it. Now, February 19th, 2010, Randy takes off.

He's done here, too? No, he's gone. Takes off. Yeah. Randy's a bounder, boy. When he's done, he's done, apparently. Yeah. And she tells all the friends, all the whole pumpkin people, Randy left me. Yeah. She's upset. She comes up. People are hugging her. They feel terrible. And she said to one friend, quote, he ran off with another woman. Believe me, you don't know the real Randy. Good riddance. Again.

Done. Done with him. Yeah, he's a scumbag and he's running away and he made me think that he was interested in pumpkins and he's really not. So, he's out.

She told everybody, coworkers, neighbors, friends, his job, because they called the house. And he goes, he didn't show up there either? Well, yeah, he left me because he's a dirtbag and he took off. Yeah. Yeah, even she'll have a boyfriend. She even tells the story to the boyfriend's mom and all this, his whole family. Really? I had this husband. We were one of the lords of the gourd. Yeah. And he took off on me. She then tells everybody, too, that she found out that his new girlfriend is pregnant. Yeah.

As well. So that's kids after all. Yeah. He knocked somebody else off, took off. And then also on top of that, he said she said, I'm happy he's gone because he used to beat me.

Andy was aggressive? He would beat me. Andy took off now. So good riddance. Fuck him. You know what I mean? Yeah. And Bill was like, what are we talking about here? My pumpkin jackknife brother? There's no way. Yeah, he's my guy. My pumpkin brother, yeah. He said that she pretty much told us that Randy had met someone else. She got pregnant, and he'd just taken off to start a new life. We thought maybe he was embarrassed or whatever. I always felt that when it was time for him to get in touch, he would. Yeah.

It's hard to tell your friends I accidentally left one in somebody. Well, yeah, especially to the pumpkin friends because those are like both of their friends. Those aren't like his friends. That's like their social group. So you might just run from everyone if that happens. For sure. So Bill said he saw Debra a few times after that on a visit.

once and at a pumpkin way off in Cooperstown. He tried to stay in contact, but she just kind of would change her phone number all the time and just didn't really, didn't stay in touch with any of the pumpkin people. Just kind of drifted off on her own. Bill said that, you know, it just didn't seem like the same her, that she was very

upset and very bitter with randy she was bitter and she was always smiling before that now he said she seemed you know wrathful is the way he put it and the fact that he can't be around him too you yeah i can't be around him it's shameful a man just left me that yeah that's the other thing so embarrassing and if you had go hang out with randy now now if you were a couple and you hung out with them now your wife's pissed at you what are you doing hanging out with them so it's tough

And he said, this is Bill, he said, quote, she said, you don't know the real Randy. And she told my wife a story about him coming home late one night. She had the door locked, so he tried to break into the house. She said he hit her and she hit back on the arm with a bat is what she said. And that was the final blow up. And then he left. He was like, fuck you. I'm out of here.

Now, he takes off. Randy's got no family, by the way. Really? So that's what I mean. It's not even like you could call his mom and be like, where the fuck's Randy? I need to get a bill to him or something. His parents are both dead.

He's got two siblings, but he doesn't keep in contact with them. He hasn't talked to either one of them in years. He doesn't talk to anybody except for Deborah and the pumpkin people. Doesn't even talk to his own daughter. His daughter, his brothers, nothing. And they both live out of state, too. So him not contacting them isn't anything new. And his few close friends are their close friends. So they know of Deborah, but he took off and he hasn't talked to them either. Now, one neighbor of theirs, a guy named Al Boudin...

And he's a neighbor who runs the Walton Pistol Club, which is a gun club in his barn in his yard. That's where the club is. So a few weeks ago, we had a guy that ran a gun shop out of his garage. Yeah. Gary's guns and stuff. And then now we got this guy who runs a pistol club out of the barn.

That doesn't seem dangerous. You know what I mean? No, it's fine. That's what I'm saying. This is, it's odd. I don't care how safe you, you, you preach it. Yeah. That seems small. It can't be that big, right? Big of a fucking barn. Can it be honestly? I mean, honestly, how big of a barn can it be? Are we firing guns off or is it just a bunch of tables where guys come and sit and talk about guns and get away from the, get away from their wives for a while. Yeah.

Are we firing guns indoors? I sincerely hope we're not firing guns in a barn. I really hope not. Close range. How many people are a member, too? Like, what is there, 50 people firing guns off in a barn? That's insane. This is soon going to be a deaf society. It is. Yeah, it's exactly what's going to go down right now. They're all going to shoot each other in a mess. And lose their hearing over it. It's just too close. It's too close.

That's all. It's fine to go to a gun club and shoot things. It's too close. Is this a BB gun? A paintball? Oh, no, no. This is real weapons. Al Boudin, this guy, he says that, quote, I don't believe in spreading rumors. Oh. Now, what's he going to do right now? Tell you some rumors. Yeah. He said, but this is not rumor. I know it because I saw it.

Oh, OK. He said that Deborah twice ran across the street to his house seeking refuge after she was, quote, beat to hell by her husband. Oh, yeah. He said that he couldn't recall the dates, but he knows that one of the incidents was reported to local law enforcement. I tried to find any record of that. I couldn't. But I don't have all the police files. So that's a separate thing.

So he's gone. Debra doesn't know what to do. She kind of stops growing her pumpkins. She stops all that stuff and she gets a new job. You know, she's she starts working at a grocery store as a cashier at the Big M supermarket and.

That's where she's working. The owner, Jim Groff, said that she was a hard worker and a favorite of all the customers. Her line was the longest because people liked talking to her and all that kind of thing. Spring of 2012, she moves on and finds a new boyfriend because, fuck, it's been a year. He's gone. He's probably bouncing a baby on his knee by now. Well, he has to be. So she meets Dominic Bosco.

Yeah. Just like the chocolate shit there. B-O-S. C-O. C-O. And he goes by Nick. Nick Bosco over here. Nicky Bosco. Good to see you. Yeah, yeah. Nicky Bosco sounds like a nickname that someone in the mob gives you. You know what I mean? Hey, it's Nicky Bosco over here. Yeah, because he likes black chicks. Nicky Bosco. You know what I mean? That's a mob name they would give you.

So he's about 50 years old. He's a couple of years older, but still in the ballpark. He graduated. He's from Long Island, this guy. He doesn't even live in this town. His family has a house here and he comes here all the time to stay there because he likes it. So he graduated from Bellport High School in Long Island and he would always come out to Walton as much as possible, his brother said. His brother said he loved the outdoors. We grew up in a farm-like atmosphere on Long Island. Our father raised cows. It was very rural back then.

We're talking in the 50s and 60s before Long Island became all the suburbs. It was farmland and then they slowly knocked that farmland down and put houses there instead. Put cul-de-sacs and shit. So he said that he began dating Debra and he

He was pretty happy. He lived in Long Island, but Walton is like a second home for the whole family because when they were a teenager, the father, John, he bought a house there. He bought a property up there on John Lockwood Road.

up off of the East River Road, and it's a couple miles from Walton Village. It's kind of out there on its own little area. It's not a heavy populated area. So they built a house out there because they bought the land and they built a house out there. And over the years, they would come out there as a family all the time, and they bought 200 acres altogether. Wow.

They kept buying more parcels and more parcels. Oh, yeah. They build up 200 acres around this nice little house that they built up there where they could all come and spend some time in nature. Okay. So Dominic worked for a tree service on Long Island. This fucking guy loves trees. Loves them. He wants to be among them. He wants to trim them. He loves them. Yeah. When work would slow down in the winter, because in New York in the winter, there's no tree people. They're just dead anyway. So they'll be back in the spring. Yeah.

So he would spend more time at the Walton house and that's how that would go. His, his, um, I guess his brother Patrick had got the house from the parents and he, there, the one friend said Nick was always up there helping Patrick out around the house. And that one of the visits he came up was when he met Deborah and they got along and they started going out. So then he was spending even more time up there.

So now the brother, this is Nick's brother, John Bosco, John Bosco Jr., he told his mother that my mom had a conversation with Deborah at some point. She said she'd been in an abusive relationship, that her ex-husband used to hit her, and that she said her ticket out was when he fell for someone else and took off.

So they felt bad for her. They were like, oh, well, we're glad you found Nicky Bosco here. He'll be great for you. There's a lot of people running off, man. People are just running away from everybody. So February 2013, she loses her job at the supermarket, which seems crazy. Customer favorite. What is she losing her job for? She is accused of stealing a purse that a customer had left at the store.

She stole it. Rather than turning it into lost and found, she just took it. And we don't know why. We don't know what the deal is with this. But she did. And the person pressed charges, too. Wow. They pressed charges. And she's charged with larceny. But she fails to appear in court. She doesn't show up. Wow.

What? Doesn't show up. So they issue a bench warrant for her. So she still doesn't show up. So about a week later, this is February 19th, 2013, actually the three-year anniversary of the day Randy left.

The day Randy took off, the cops go looking for her to serve her with this bench warrant for stealing a purse. This is it's literally a larceny charge. It's a misdemeanor. It's nothing huge. So sad. She didn't like wrestle it out of an old lady's hand and then push her to the ground or anything. It was just it was left behind. She took it. So the law enforcement here, they track her to a house on a dead end road.

On the other side of Walton at 294 John Lockwood Road, where she was staying with Nicky Bosco at his family house up there. They knock on the door, and they said they expected a very routine, it's a larceny charge. Get in, let's get out of here. You're going to come in, we're going to fingerprint you, you're going to go home. There's not going to be bail, there's not going to be any of that shit. It's going to be a quick thing. Real dumb. Yeah, it's a petty theft, it's nothing. Right.

So they learned that that's where she spent time. So about 2 p.m., middle of the afternoon, you'll be back before dinner. Don't worry about it. Walton Police Chief and Investigator Carl Vox of the Delaware County Sheriff's Office, they go to serve the warrant. She answered the door. They told her, we have to arrest you.

Obviously, you know, we have that charge. You missed your court date. That's the way this works. We've got to arrest you. You know you can't trade pumpkins for, you know, favors. We're sorry. She was in her nightgown and stuff still. Like she had like a robe and nightgown. She was just lounging around. Lazy day.

Is it all right? Can you at least give me a minute to put normal clothes on so I don't have to go into town to the police station like this? And they said, yeah, sure, go ahead. The cops said, we just received information that she might be at this residence, which was a seasonal residence. She initially answered the door, but she was only dressed in a nightshirt, so she asked the cops if she could have a minute to get changed. And that's when the lieutenant says, quote, she shut the door.

And it was within a minute they heard two shots. Yeah, not expected. This is a larceny arrest. This is nothing. Two shots. So they said, what the fuck? They burst in through the door. They kick it open. They run in there.

As they're charging upstairs, the fucking house is on fire. It's a full fucking blaze. Within a minute, she set the house on fire and two shots are taken in a minute. Wow. It's a blaze. They're trying to fucking get to her upstairs. Two shots. That's rare for a suicide. Well, the first shot. Do you want to talk about being an asshole? Yeah. It's one thing to kill yourself. The first shot, she shot her dog.

What? With a 30-30 rifle. What, to make sure that it works? Like, what the fuck did she do that for? Her Australian shepherd named Shadow. Oh, God. Who, by the way, was her constant companion, always walking the dog, always, I guess she figured if I'm going, if I'm going, no one can take care of Shadow. Yeah. So then she turned the gun on herself and shot herself with the same 30-30, which takes talent because that's all you have to. It's a lot of rifle. It's a lot of rifle. You got to have a certain length of arm to be able to pull that off.

So the cops, as they're trying to get up there, the flames are too much. They can't get up there. They just see the bodies and they're like, we can't fucking do anything. They run out of the house before they're overtaken by the flames. The entire house burns to shit.

Burns to cinders, leaving only the wraparound deck, a fireplace chimney, and some cordwood near the door. Which is amazing because that's the firewood. That's what it's for. The only thing that didn't burn. She bought some shit wood. Yep. The firefighters did save a detached garage from complete ruin. So there's that.

Unbelievable over a purse. Over a fucking purse. So they said the rifle was located in the residence on Lockwood Road and that the residence was owned by a family member of Nick Bosco. That's what they when asked about the the rifle ownership. So now she's dead. The dog's dead, which I know the dog's dead. And that's horrible. We're all very sad. And Nick's family lost their fucking house. They lost their house. Where the fuck is Nick, by the way? Because Nick, where was he in this? It's his house. Where's where's he?

Most Americans think they spend about $62 per month on subscriptions. But get this, the real number is closer to $300. That is literally thousands of dollars a year, half of which you've probably forgotten about. Thankfully, Rocket Money can find a bunch of subscriptions you've forgotten all about and then help you cancel the ones you don't want anymore. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that finds and cancels your unwanted subscriptions,

monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so that you can grow your savings. Rocket Money has over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when using all of the app's features.

Stop wasting money on things you don't use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to rocketmoney.com slash wondery. That's rocketmoney.com slash wondery. rocketmoney.com slash wondery.

Looking for a way to simplify your family's back-to-school journey? Have lunch with Pack-It! Pack-It freezable lunch boxes and bags are designed with EcoFreeze technology, patented, freezable gel that is built into the walls of the bag, eliminating the need for those annoying and often lost or hard-to-find ice packs. With Pack-It solutions-oriented products, food and drinks stay cool for hours, making it easy to prepare and pack healthy lunch options.

Shop cool styles, patterns, and colors on Packet.com. Use coupon code PACKET20 for 20% off. That's P-A-C-K-I-T and the number 20 for 20% off your purchase. Make Packet the first stop on your back-to-school journey. Okay, it's time to commit. 2024 is the year for prioritizing yourself. Begin your new smile journey with Byte, and you could start seeing results in just two to three weeks.

Just order your at-home impression kit today for only $14.95 at Byte.com. Byte clear liners are doctor-directed and delivered to your door. Treatment costs thousands less than braces, plus they offer financing options, accept eligible insurance, and you can pay with your HSA, FSA.

Get 80% off your impression kit when you use code WONDERY at Byte.com. That's B-Y-T-E dot com. Start your confidence journey today with Byte. Well, he's a big guy too, Nick. Big, rugged. He's a tree guy, for Christ's sake. 225 pound, you know, sturdy cat. Well, when they clear everything off, they find his body at the bottom of the basement steps.

He's dead. He's dead. And they said this is his brother said he didn't take this while looking straight at the person who killed him. He would have been able to defend himself. That's why we think she got him while he was sleeping or with poison. Something very premeditated. They find out that he was dead up to three days before this fire was set.

What the shit? So they knocked on the door and she said, oh, fuck, it's over. They're going to find that. They said we're here to arrest you for the purse, but she's like, eventually... They're going to find the body. Yep, it's over. So she freaked out. They said, the investigators said they hadn't been able to determine the cause of death for him because of the extensive burns, but they had been able to determine it happened days before the fire. Unbelievable. They don't know exactly how many days. So...

But then the state police find out that she's married because they're looking for someone next of kin to tell somebody. You got to make a notification. So they're like, oh, shit, she has a husband. Let's find him to notify him. Yeah. So, you know, they can find Randy if no one else can. And they can't find him, though.

They're doing checks. They're doing, you know, electricity bills, everything. And they're trying to find no one can find him. And they said, well, where the fuck is he? And then they found out that, quote, it had been about since 2010 since he was last seen. So we wound up looking into Deborah Sundstrom's residence.

The cops said, initially, we weren't looking for his body. Initially, we were investigating the fire at the house, and one thing led to another. This is three days after the fire. Police trying to find him. So they bring a cadaver-sniffing dog to their house, Randy and Deb's house. Sniffing all around, and the dog notifies on a barrel behind the house. Yep. And they pull it out, and it's Randy.

What? Stuffed inside a 55 gallon barrel about 25 paces from the back door of their farmhouse. She just left him there. For three years he's been there. Neighbors have come over. Wow. All of this shit. He's right there stuffed into the fucking end of this gallon. She's just telling everybody he's a Bob Seger song. He's a. Yep. He's going. He's a fucking. Oh my. It's insane. So she said that a cop said there's no girlfriend that we know of.

And he said investigators were unaware of allegations of domestic violence between them, adding that it was not germane to the case at this point. What was she going to do? Just kill every guy forever? Yeah. I don't know what she was going to do with Nick. Put him in a barrel. Yes. I don't know. I mean, she's at his family's house. Yeah. I don't know what her deal is. She left him. I guess she just shoved him down the basement stairs. Was like, I'll put him there for now.

Is he bigger than a 55-gallon drum? Is that the problem? Did she shove his body down there, like roll him down the steps while she came in, like from the cops? Was he laying in the living room and she was like, better get him downstairs. Roll, fire, shot. Who knows? Or did she put him down there to begin with? I don't know. So it's pretty wild, though, I would say. They asked her parents, did she ever tell you about any abuse? And they would not talk to the cops at all.

They said she's dead. It doesn't matter.

It does matter. It matters to everybody. It matters to us because this is fucking weird. And I'm curious. Guys, there's two dead bodies. Let's talk. There's three at this point and shadow. Yeah. Four. Yeah. And a burned down house, man. So the cops here, this is the lieutenant again. He said that Deborah is the sole suspect in the deaths of both Nikki Bosco and her husband. He said, we haven't ruled out anybody else. But at this time, we don't have any other suspects. She doesn't know anybody else.

This is crazy. Now, this barrel was only 100 feet, not from her house. It was much closer there, but 100 feet from the entrance to the Walton Pistol Club, of which Randy used to go all the time. Yeah. So Al Boudin, the guy who runs it, said, I must have mowed past that spot 100 times. Oh, my God. He just mowed. Howdy, Randy. Oh, Jesus. As he mows around the foot. He probably weed whacked around that fucking thing. You know, he did.

You know, we did. Yeah, that thing just ate up spools as that little nylon thing hit the side of that. That goddamn tin is fucking up my weed whacker. Insane. They said, well, did you know the Sundstrom's well? And he said, I thought I did. I mean, I didn't know Randy was in a barrel, so I guess not.

He said he believes that the domestic violence was ongoing and that that was the motive for Randy's murder. He said there's only so many times you can get hit by a shovel before you get hit back. Come on. A shovel? I don't know. I think that was just a saying of his probably. She just finally snapped.

And then they said, sir, we're the Oxygen Network. Would you possibly be interested in a deal? Could you give us that title, please? We just really want that. Can you do that? It's going to be, what's it about? Say that again. Exactly this is what it's about every week. It's the same show.

See this lady? She's going to be the one who killed somebody, guaranteed. It's the same fucking show. We need a guy like you every week, too, that weed whacks around a barrel. That's right. Like, on this show, you never know who's going to be the murderer. Could be anybody. Could be the eight-year-old. We have no fucking idea. On that show, you go, well, the wife's going to kill him, so that's how this works. That's the show.

Well, she's had enough. I think she's going to get pissed off. This is Mary. She's probably had about enough. She's about to snap. Yeah. This is Mary. Mary's had enough of Randy shit. Over the next hour and 10 minutes, we're going to tell you how and why. Just hire us to do the show. It'll be much more entertaining. Much more entertaining.

So Al Boudin said he had no doubt that Debra was strong enough to kill her husband and fold his body into the barrel and wheel it behind the garage. He said she could outwork any man. She's a farmer. She grows pumpkins that are bigger than your car. So Randy's daughter, the never-seen-daughter...

She said that she was gradually drawn into the whole drama surrounding her father, and she said that she wouldn't have recognized him if she passed him on the street, but still it was fascinating that it was her father who was murdered. She said it was just a crazy conversation. She said, I want to let you know that Deborah committed suicide last night and caught the house on fire. And I was like, okay, shocked and everything.

She said that they did not know where my father was and that they were trying to find him. For the next few days, she monitored the developing story and she said, I saw on the Walton Reporter website they found a second body and I was freaking out. What if it's my father? Well, what if? Then they said it wasn't. They said it was Dominic, the second body. She said, they said, I really hate to tell you this news over the phone, but your father's dead. That's what they told her.

We'd tell you in person if you'd ever seen him. That's the thing. Any kind of actual relationship with him. You have a phone notification relationship with your dad, we're sorry to tell you. As a child who grew up without a father for 28 years, they have no idea how many times she has conjured and wished for this exact scenario. I hope that motherfucker is murdered somewhere.

She seems to have just like a real detached curiosity about it. She doesn't seem to have a real anger about it, which I don't know if she got like a stepfather who was like a father to her and she wasn't in need of that. Yeah, that's a great point because you win enough awards at school to have just your mom sitting there. You feel like a piece of shit. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It sucks, man.

So he, she, Jesus Christ, man, this is fucking crazy. But they had to tell her over the phone. They're like, listen, if your father would have came to your house, then so would we, but he won't come over. So we're not going to come over either.

Sorry, Mindy. That's just bad. Yeah. That's a shitty thing to do. Like the bastard child you are. Shitty thing to do, Randy. Just take off like that. You can take off, but fucking take care of things. Come on, man. You're 30 miles away. Yeah. She said, I still don't know how to feel about it. This is stuff I see on CSI on television. She said, then the next day they called him again.

They called her again. They called her back. She said, they told me I was the legal next of kin and I had to take care of his body. Oh, my God. No, I don't know this man. Put him back in the barrel and kick it down a hill. It's fine. There's a basement there. Put the ashes over into the other. I don't know what to tell you. Done. I don't know. I'm not paying for this.

I've got a necklace and a gift card. That's not going to cover the cost here. The gift card is much lower than the burial fees. You have to give your children more over the course of their lives than your funeral would cost or else they don't have to bury it. She said, it just, oh my God, threw me for a loop. I didn't know what to do. I could have said he wasn't there for the 23 years of my life, so why should I be there for him now? But that's just not who I am. I have a bigger heart than that.

So she instead organized a send-off for her dad, including a military burial because he was in the Army for two years during peacetime. Oh, have them pay for it. Yeah, that helps. At the Sullivan County Veterans Cemetery, she said she appreciated that a number of pumpkin growers, including Bill Bobier, attended the funeral. She said, they all told me some funny stories that lightened up the situation. They also said that he did mention me and that he really wished he was a part of my life.

You would tell her that no matter even if he never met. If you said this is the first time I knew he had a daughter, you go. He talked about you all the time. I mean, it was just Mandy, Mandy. I'm so Mindy, Mindy, Mindy, Mindy. Sorry. That's what I meant. I don't remember. Whatever. I put pumpkin seeds in the casket with the watering system. So hang tight. In a few years, you're going to have a big ass pumpkin. I have to go spread milk on my pumpkins. I'll be back later.

They should have just thrown that cord of wood inside that barrel and thrown in a match. Done deal. Yeah. Wipe your hands and walk away. That's that, like a Vegas card dealer. Done and done. There you go. She said that that put a big smile on my face. My father, in their eyes, was an awesome friend and a great man. Well, where the fuck was he when I needed that? Oh, you're telling me he treated you like a son? That's nice. Thanks a lot. Yeah.

So why wasn't he missing? They said, quote, he was never labeled as a missing person. Yeah. If no one looks for you, you'll never be missing. That's a great point. That's what it is. No one looked for him. Period. That was that. He was never called in as a missing person, the lieutenant said, and said that family members told investigators they hadn't had contact with him, quote, for many years. So they didn't think anything of it.

They said the investigation is going to continue. They're looking at mental health histories, whether there was a history of domestic violence. They're trying to figure out the cause of death, everything like that. They said everything with her right now, actually all three subjects is under investigation. We're fielding a lot of phone calls, people who know all of the people involved in this.

We know more about pumpkins. The dog didn't shoot her, so. You know what I mean? Yeah. So they got a forensic psychologist to try to figure it out, and she said it seems like she was backed into a corner and could see no way out. She can't think of another solution to this awful situation, so she snaps.

Okay. Another one. Another one. That's the husband. But what about Nikki Bosco and the dog? Because she's not tied into that situation. She doesn't even live there. She could just go to her house. She could walk anytime. This guy lives like fucking 300 miles away. Wow.

I don't understand what the snapping to him. Why'd she kill him? And why'd she kill the fucking dog? How about this? Open the door, let the dog run out, and fucking do it. The cops would have found the dog and rounded it up, I'm sure. It's better than burning it or killing it. What an asshole. I don't know what her deal is. It feels like she was just going to kill everybody that wronged her forever. Just whenever it comes up, and then hide it. So every year, about 750 intermarriage killings take place.

Yeah. Is that right? But 750 marriages go just short of divorce, let's say, with this. 750 people find out how much divorce costs and they choose the opposite. They choose the opposite. They said most of these are influenced by alcohol or sometimes drugs, too. This is in the house. They're drunk. One person kills another person. They said the rare one is Deborah here because among spousal murders, the male is the victim in only two out of every 10 cases.

Wow. Which is funny, but as far as female killers go, they kill their male partner more than they kill anybody else besides their own children. Right.

The female killers really, for the most part, when like a woman kills another woman on this show, it's fucking rare. It's always their spouse or their children or they kill the guy and the baby. Yeah, yeah. That happens too. I'll show you. If they kill a woman, it's usually to cut the baby out of them. Yeah. Without that like a baby motive, it's rare. It's rare. It's really rare. So the reactions are, this is Bill Bobier again. He said, what kills me the most?

kills me, kills me juice. Not Deborah. Yeah. Is that all this time we thought Randy was the bad guy. I don't blame myself, but in a way I should have known that Randy being one of my best friends would have tried to get ahold of me over all that time.

He's just like, I just believed he was gone and just ran away. That's stupid of me. His brother said, this is Bosco, Nicky Bosco's brother, said, we don't know how this could have happened. He said, I wish we did, but I guess there's no real closure on what this psycho did.

What was he like? Because they're talking about Nicky. He said, what was he like? He was a hard worker, a very hard worker who was dedicated to whatever he did. He was an honest man, a stand-up guy. He's a real stand-up guy. Nicky Bosco is a real stand-up guy. Let me tell you something. It was absolutely a mob name. Hilarious. He never ran from the truth. He would tell what he thought. I can't believe I'm not going to see him again. Then...

That's the, how did the pumpkin community respond to this whole mess? Well, I found on big pumpkins.com, which is not a, not a site about big tinted redheads. Shockingly enough, I expected that. God damn it. Orange nippled women.

But no, it is actually about growing big pumpkins. Unbelievable. There's a message board when all this goes down in 2013, in the week following the finding of the bodies and all that. And here are some of the messages. I'll just read them down. Just found out today that one of our fellow growers and friend has passed away. I hope she knows how much she will be missed. R.I.P. Deb.

This is before they found Randy. Oh, wow. All of these. Sorry to hear this. We'll remember her in my prayers. Sorry to hear my prayers for his family. Or for her family, sorry. R.I.P. Deb, my thoughts and prayers are with the family. Sorry for her family's loss, and we'll keep her in our thoughts today. R.I.P., Deb, and thank you. So, so sorry. Our thoughts and prayers go out to the Sundstrom family. Sorry to hear this. R.I.P., Deb.

Deb was a really good friend. By the way, this is from ExtremePumpkinStore.com is the fucking poster. Extreme. Extreme pumpkins. Deb was a really good friend and a good person. For anyone that has seen Lords of the Gord, Deb became famous for her wall of death. Huh?

They don't know that she has murdered people yet. They think she just killed herself in a fire. This is unreal. This is crazy. I hope that she's at peace now. Deb, you will be missed but not forgotten. You will be missed, Deb. Our prayers are with your family and friends. This is Joel and Mary Lou. It says from them, now that's some sad news. One of the originals. Rest easy, Deb.

R.I.P. Deb Sundstrom. So sad. Oh, my God. Deb was a very kind-hearted woman. Got to know her at Cooperstown and Oswego way offs. Had some good talks with her. I'm still shocked. Rest in peace, Deb. And may God give you all the comfort in heaven.

Then it says, why does it always seem that the truly good ones go early while the low life seem to live forever? Deb quote, mousetrap lady. That's her wall of death. It's mousetraps was a friend and former OAF sponsor as well. Then at the end of this,

A couple weeks later, someone says, quote, let me just start off by asking if you people know the circumstances surrounding the death of your wonderful, of your all wonderful, loving, clinically psychotic friend, Debra. Last time I checked, that twisted evil bitch went down as a thief and murderer.

twisted evil bitch uh she murdered my closest friend an amazing man that had a massive positive impact on the lives of those fortunate enough to meet him so again i ask you people what the fuck is wrong with you grow pumpkins man grow pumpkins you dicks deborah sunstrom fucking burn in hell i wish i could bring you back so i could kill you all over again

You're a selfish, psychotic cunt, and I hope the devil is raping your filthy soul in the lowest depths of hell. Is there a worse thing you could say to anybody, really, than a woman? Fantastic. You're a selfish, psychotic cunt, and I hope the devil is raping your filthy soul in the lowest depths of hell.

Wow. No, he's not done yet. That's not his closer. That's a mic drop. See, this person never did stand up. You have to know when to drop the mic and it's over after that. You're never going to get a bigger one than that. You're going to, you're going to top soul raping. Come on, man. The depths of hell. And he says, thanks for nothing. You people live in fantasy lands where the devil is shrouded in pretty colors and confetti. So you all can keep pretending that you're holier than thou.

Sir, I got to say, that was... I don't know if any of it's true or what, but holy shit, the emotion there is...

Wonderful. I feel what you mean, for sure. I feel you. So they pulled old Randy out of the ground here. By the way, Randy Lee is his middle name. So many guys Lee. They pulled him out of the barrel and put him into the ground. They buried him in Sullivan County Veteran Cemetery, like we said. So at least he had that. Now the house is 294 John Lockwood Road, the burned down house.

is now a two-bedroom, one-bath, 2,036-square-foot house. That's a big house for two-bedroom, one-bath. Yeah, they must have sold off the land because the Zestimate on it, it's not on the market, but the Zestimate on the whole thing is $395,800, and I don't think that can be 200 acres of land. So they must have parceled it off. Now, the 1884 South River Road, that is the pumpkin house here, two-bedroom, one-bath, 1,463 square feet.

So very small little house that is only on a half acre. That is at one hundred fifty two thousand dollars estimate at this point. And in case you're in New Jersey, don't mix this up. In New Jersey, there is a Debbie Sundstrom, exact same spelling on LinkedIn, who's a teacher of baking and pastry at Lower Cape May Regional High School. If she teaches you to make a pumpkin pie, don't freak out. She's fine.

She did not kill anyone. Her dog. She's alive for Christ's sake. She's alive and thriving and making pies and shit. So there you go, everyone. That's Walton, New York. Wow. And a wild story of you never thought it would go to pumpkins and all this murder and houses burning and everything else. I don't know what happened. I can't believe this. It's a crazy fucking story. I mean, they get crazier. You go off 500 episodes. They got to be running out of shit. No, we're not. We're not even close. We're just figuring out what's weird now.

She did it. She did it. She showed us. Fuck yeah. We were talking before the show and we were like, this show still feels new. And it always does to us. It still feels brand new. It still feels brand new. We're still feeling our way through it, getting our feet wet. So there you go. If you enjoyed that show, tell everybody about it. Tell the world about it. Get on whatever app you're on. And please leave a review. It helps a lot. Follow us on social media. We are at Small Town Murder on Instagram, Small Town Pod on Facebook, Murder Small on Twitter.

Follow all of that. You also certainly want to go to ShutUpAndGiveMeMurder.com. Merchandise is up. In addition to merchandise being up, there's also tickets to live shows. Minneapolis, September 20th. Let's go! You're on deck, baby. Our biggest show ever if you sell it out. State Theater, gorgeous place. No reason not to come. And Milwaukee the next night. Only a couple tickets left for that. So those are going to be gone soon. Kansas City, Oklahoma City, Austin, Boston, New York. Get your tickets to all of them. They're going fast. So go to...

Come see us. Shut up and give me murder.com. Patreon.com slash crime and sports. That's where you get the bonus stuff. $5 a month or above this week, which you're going to get for crime and sports and small town murder, which you'll have access to both for crime and sports. We are going to talk about industrial disasters.

Yes. Nothing to do with sports, but people, you want to hear what it's like if a molten steel thing breaks and just liquefies everybody? We'll tell you about it. Fills the boardroom? All right. Fills it all up then. That's so fucking disgusting and horrible. Is it? I don't know. It's crazy. It's going to be wild.

It's going to be wild. Then for small town murder, we're going to talk about the cannibal cop case, which was he was a cop at one point, but did he really want to be a cannibal? Was he just a creative writer or was he planning something? We'll talk all about that. That is patreon.com slash crime and sports. So get in there, do that, hang out with us, keep coming back and keep doing that and follow us on social media. Shut up and give me murder.com is where you find the links to everything like that. Keep coming back every week, everybody. And until next week.

It's been our pleasure. Bye. If you like small town murder, you can listen early and ad free now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple podcasts. Prime members can listen early and ad free on Amazon music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. Was there a crime committed?

As far as I'm concerned, there wasn't. Guilty by Design dives into the wild story of Alexander and Frank, interior designers who in the 80s landed the jackpot of all clients. We went to bed one night and the next morning we woke up as one of the most wanted people in the United States. What are they guilty of? You can listen to Guilty by Design exclusively and ad-free on Wondery+. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.