#492 - Murder Moves In - Summerville, South Carolina
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No.

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Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Small Town Murder Express. Yay! Choo-choo! Ho-ho! Yay, indeed, Jimmy. Yay, indeed. My name is James Petrigallo. I'm here with my co-host. I'm Jimmy Wissman. Thank you, folks, so much for joining us today on another wild edition of Small Town Murder Express. You know the Express episodes, the regular episodes, too. That's just a crazier story because there's more time for it. Just one more time, yeah. But this, we still pack...

way more than an hour's worth of crazy into an hour. So we're going to do that this week quickly before we get started. Definitely had to shut up and give me murder.com. What's there, Jimmy?

I'll tell you what's there. Live shows, live show tickets, merch. Live shows, that's right, and merch and all sorts of cool stuff there. So get yourself to shutupandgivememurder.com. May 31st, Durham, North Carolina. You bet. That is our next stop. The next night in Nashville sold out, but still a few tickets left for Durham. So get them while they're there. Come see us. We're going to have a party and have some pulled pork with some thin vinegary barbecue sauce like they have down there.

We're going to be all full of pork when we get out on stage. It's going to be excellent. All porked up. All porked up. So do that. Definitely patreon.com slash crime in sports. You definitely want that. That is good stuff. All the bonus materials there. Anybody, $5 a month or above. You're going to get everything we have, hundreds of back episodes of bonus stuff you've never heard, new stuff every other week, one crime in sports, one small town murder, and you get all of it. You get it all.

All of it, baby. This week, what you're going to get for crime and sports, theme park disasters are back again. Oh, my goodness. Every few months we have to revisit that. More crazy stuff. People falling out of roller coasters and kids drowning in pools and all sorts of craziness. Right. And then for small town murder, we're going to talk about the craziest execution methods in history.

So that is a lot of fun. People had imaginations and they really came up with some weird stuff. So we'll talk all about that. Patreon.com slash Crime and Sports. And you get a shout out at the end of the regular show where we will acknowledge the...

amazing wonderfulness that you have bestowed upon us. So thank you for doing that. And also listen to our other two shows, Crime in Sports and Your Stupid Opinions. Oh, boy. Which is, I'm telling you, the best, funniest hour in podcasting. So get in there, do that. That said, I think it's time. What do you say? I think it's time. We've got to clear the lungs. We've got to really get it going and let's all arms to the sky and let's all shout. Ta-da!

Give me murder. Let's do this, everybody. What do you say? You ready, my friend? Let's go on a trip, shall we? Okay. We are going down south this week. Oh, boy. We are heading over to South Carolina, to Somerville, South Carolina. Like the season, or is it with an O? Like the season. No, not somer. Yeah, it's like summer, just a vill of all summer. Oh.

Oh, yeah. That's where it is. South Eastern. All year round, baby. This is South Eastern South Carolina, so we go down in the coastal area. But not quite. It's about 30 minutes to Charleston. 30 minutes more inland than Charleston. About two hours to Soccasty, which was our last stop.

South Carolina episode. That was episode 445, Bed Chains and Dark Deeds. Jesus. That was a dark episode, man. That was crazy stuff. It's area code 843. About 50,000 people here at this point. Good amount, yeah. And it has blown up in the last 10 years.

Before that, there was nobody there for centuries. Try living in Charleston. It's so hard now. It's so expensive. And there's a beach, so that's why. And the burbs have gotten just as bad. If you can get there half hour outside of it, that's the burbs. That's going to be tough. Median household income here is $64,507 a year, so it's right around the national average. Median home price also around the average, $355,200. Wow.

Is that the... That's the median. It's tough. It has two mottos here, this town. Number one, the flower town in the pines. They always call it the flower town here. Really? And then the other one is at the heart of it all.

Is it? Not really. Most of it's that way. Most of it's down that way, some, if you go near the beach. There's a beach down there. That's where the heart's going to be. That's all right there. We're not in all. We're all adjacent is where we are in this town. If you mean like removed from everywhere, like the heart is like.

Kind of a distance from the good stuff, right? I guess so, yeah. Maybe. I don't know, man. So that makes more sense than what they got going on. Yeah. History of this town. It's located on, this is right from the town's website, located on a pine-forested ridge. Somerville was first inhabited in the late 1700s.

and this was people coming from the low country closer to the water, and they wanted refuge from summer heat. Or, I'm sorry, farther away from the water. This was to get refuge from summer heat, less mosquitoes, less disease. Up high, yeah. That's what they're doing. So plantation families from May to September during the summer...

They would head for higher elevations to live temporarily here to, you know, cool off a little bit. Snowbird kind of people. Exactly. The last decade of the 1800s.

though, this stuff, you know, normally the towns burn down. Right. That happened here. They definitely burned down, destroyed the whole downtown area. Most buildings destroyed. But there was also a huge earthquake in 1886, which... Really? You don't think of South Carolina as big earthquake country. No. But apparently a big earthquake fucked everything up. They rebuilt it and then it all burned to the ground. So... That's perfect. Yeah.

Shook itself to the ground, then burned itself. Oh, boy. Give up. Especially down here. They're pretty religious. I'd say this is some biblical shit, right? God doesn't want us here, apparently. And then every August, they get crazy hurricane-level storms. Oh, yeah. It's a lot. I don't know how they deal with it. Why would you want to stay there? The whole thing changed, and the town's fortunes changed when the Congress of Physicians in Paris...

declared Somerville one of the world's two best places for treating lung disorders for some reason. Where's the other one? I don't know. Probably Tucson or some other terrible place. Yeah, low deserts. That's where they all used to go. I mean, people that have tuberculosis, they'd send them to the desert. So it was a bedroom community here, and that's all it remained. It didn't reach 6,000 people until the late 1970s.

And now there's 50,000. So, yeah, it doubled in the 80s and then really the last 20 years it's blown up. Reviews of this town, just a few here. Here is five stars. Somerville is a charming and quaint town. Would love to see historic areas preserved. It's getting a little overcrowded, so improving roads would be beneficial. That's everybody's complaint is...

It wasn't built for this many people, and now there's way more traffic than they anticipated ever having. Well, when it's U-Haul truck after U-Haul truck, it's hard to plan for what's happening. Totally. Too fast. Overwhelming. Yeah. Infrastructure isn't made for that, to double in population in 10 years. That's not normal. Right. Three stars here. It's so boring here.

There is not much to do unless you have a job. Well, yeah. Pretty much everywhere. That's what I was going to say. What are you going to do without a job anyway? You don't have any fucking money. Where are you going to go? What are you going to do? And a job is kind of something to do also. So maybe if you had a job, you'd feel more fulfilled. I like the way this person thinks, though. Right? Not much to do unless you have a job. I mean, Jesus Christ. People spend time at the parking garage for fun.

Do they? Sounds like a lot of fun. Apparently that's where they hang out. The schools are decent, better than other districts around. Yeah. I feel like this is a kid.

That's a teenager. It sounds like it. Teenagers hang out in parking lots. I don't think there's adults hanging out in parking garages, I hope. And 14-year-olds can't get a job, therefore they're really pissed that they can't do anything without a job. Unless you can get a job. Two stars. We were very disappointed in the town. We were considering moving there, but we were looking for a historic, pleasant town, and instead it had a lot of traffic noise, bad roads, and strip malls that reminded me of some of the poor areas of Florida beach towns.

Oh, my God. Where the poors live, you know, down over there. The poor areas. Fucking Tampa. You don't want to be by the poor areas. Felt like Fort Myers. Trashy Daytona Beach people. You don't want that. We prefer communities that have a more community feel, so we will keep looking. Too bad, really. Okay. Things to do.

Everything here is based on flowers or sweet tea. And I'm not shitting you. All the activities. Well, that's South Carolina with the sweet tea. They're flower festivals and everything else. What flowers? Magnolias, I imagine. All sorts of flowers down there. Everything. It's the Magnolia state, so probably. Just flowers? Flowers, yeah. But the thing is, the sweet tea, they have the Sweet Tea Trail.

They call it. Oh. And they describe it, sweet tea, a symbol of Southern hospitality, has a rich history rooted in Somerville, the birthplace of sweet tea. They claim to be the birthplace of sweet tea. Who the fuck knows? I don't know. They were the first ones to put sugar in that bitter shit? I don't believe that. You know what? If I just made this real sweet, I better be easier to drink. I don't think you're probably not.

Summersville celebrates its sweet tea heritage with the Guinness Book of World Records winning largest sweet iced tea container. Mason, it's called. It's a big mason jar. At the annual Sweet Tea Festival they have there. Okay. The Sweet Tea Festival we'll talk about is a celebration of the birthplace of sweet tea.

Here, our historic downtown is transformed into a massive open house street fair with different food trucks, entertainment, artisanal vendors, and of course, plenty of sweet tea so you can help select the tea of the year by sampling and voting for your favorite.

They are taking it far too serious. If you showed up in this town and they were like, sweet tea, and you're like, no thanks, that's all right, they'd be like, huh? Get out. Sweet tea? And they'd just like hand it. No, I don't want any. Y'all are going to have to leave now. I'm sorry.

It's probably like when you go anywhere and they're about to take your order and they just start filling water cups for your table. They probably do that with sweet tea. They do. No, sweet tea comes on the table. Like in Nashville, there's a lot of barbecue restaurants. They put down water and sweet tea. They go, you want anything else? And you're like, yes, you can take the sweet tea back and bring me a soda. I don't need the sweet tea. There's also the Hold My Tea Bar Crawl and Sweet Tea Cocktail Contest.

What is that? Want to have a headache tomorrow? Mix your drink with sweet tea. Jesus Christ. That was the vodka in it. Wow. Ten bars are competing in the Somerville Sweet Tea Cocktail Contest. You get to explore various venues and indulge in the entries of Somerville's most talented bartenders.

Get shit-faced and have sweet tea on your breath. What do you want to bet? It's very lemon-centered. It's got to be. I would hope that a good one would be, yeah. Are there lemon, lime? There's some sort of citrus. You're going to have to balance it out with some acid there because it's a lot of sugar. That's tough. That said, there's a bunch of bands, too, here. The Southern Songwriter Festival is mixed in with the Sweet Tea Festival. I mean, song is loose, but all right.

It's a lot of people I've never heard of. You're right. Exactly. The Rinkins.

Stephanie Potter Damn Riley. I don't know who that is. Potter Damn Riley? Potter Damn Riley. And then Ben Somewhere. Somewhere, but not here. Have you? Let's talk about a murder. Yeah. Fuck that. Let's talk about some murder, shall we? Yeah. Okay. Let's do this. Let's talk about a woman first. Let's start out with Carmi Josette Nelson. Carmi. Carmi. C-A-R-M-I-E. Carmi.

That's like her real legal name, Carmi. Yeah, it's a nice name, Carmi. It sounds happy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, seems like a sweet gal. Yeah, well, she's not at all. Already out the gate. No, she's not at all sweet. Carmi is a, it's like those animals that look nice or like a flower, like a Venus flytrap. It smells nice and it's going to clamp you in its jaws, really. Yeah.

That's what's Carmi is to her. She was in, she's born in 1967. Carmi, she's an army nurse and she marries another army member in 2001.

Carmi went into the Army and then married somebody from the Army. Yeah, Carmi was in the Army and then married another Army person. Feels like... Army Carmi over here. Army Carmi's looking at privates. She had a stripper gig all set right there. Just Army Carmi could have been a real... Big hit, yeah. She could have been the headliner every time, so...

She marries a guy named Daniel Nelson, and that's how the Nelson came in. So Carmi Nelson she becomes. This is in 2001 she marries him. He is 13 years younger than her. Is that right? He's born in 1980, so he is not even 21 yet, and she is...

33 at the time. And she's been, so she's been in the army a long time. She's been, yeah, she's a nurse in the army. So that's a kind of a career retirement career. Yeah. She's doing that as a career. And I think she does do 20 years and he's also in the army as well. So they get together. He's born in 1980, Daniel Joseph Nelson. He is, um, a lot of the times here, they often live separately, even though they're married because, um,

Her job after she gets out of the army is as a traveling nurse. So if you know what those traveling nurses, they kind of go from stay for a couple of weeks in each place. And that's how they do it. They're busy. So they end up living. They end up having separate residences a lot. These two because she'll be off somewhere. He'll be somewhere else. Damn good way to make it work. Somehow they make it work. You know what else binds people together, though? Besides that?

Besides, you know, the longing of the heart from making a drawing fonder from distance is meth also does that pretty well.

Is that what they're into? Meth works as a glue, really, that we don't really give it enough credit for. Yes, it'll fuck your life up, destroy your body, but it also works as a glue. It's more of a chemical weld is what it is. It's really what it is. You don't see meth head couples break up often. It's very rare. Usually prison keeps them apart, but other than that, you can't really keep them apart. They're together. If you've ever seen Dope Sick Love, you'll understand exactly what I'm talking about.

Carmi has a few issues here and a couple minor ones that I found. She hasn't expired. She gets pulled over and arrested for not having a license. In 2012, I think there's a child with no seatbelt on in her car. She gets a ticket for that. In 2012? She's running around seatbelt with...

She's a traveling fucking woman. I don't think she cares very much. Just get in the car. Yeah. Then in 2014, she is arrested on May 12th or May 2014. She's arrested for criminal domestic violence.

On Daniel. Oh, really? Now, these two will trade arrests back and forth, basically, because he's going to get arrested a bunch of times for this as well. These two drink like- For domestic violence? Yeah, for domestic violence. They drink like fish. They take a bunch of tons of different pills, and they also smoke meth and crack. And then they fight. And then they fight. And then people call the cops. So-

There's a problem, obviously, with these two. Holy shit. They're living this life in 2012? 2012, 2013. They're living it until 2017, as we'll talk about. Oh, my God. They got a wild life, man. Wow. Traveling from place to place. She stays in motels, and he stays in homeless camps half the time, and at shelters and shit for some reason. It's like, what are you doing?

And they have children. They do not have children, these two. Whose children are in the car? Who the hell? Somebody else's kids? Yeah, she was probably selling them or something. Who knows? She was probably selling the child for meth. What the fuck? Just a kid she grabbed at the park and she's going to bring it to the dealer and go, can I get like three hits for this? I mean, what? I found a blonde girl. Can you sell her to somebody? Probably.

It's disturbing. I feel so bad. I feel gross. It's really bad, man. 2015, they're living in Charleston. Daniel is convicted of criminal domestic violence for attacking Carmi with a knife. Okay. Now it's escalating. Now we have knives involved. Now we've got weapons, yeah. So she's taken an arrest. Now he takes an arrest, too. He receives probation, and they continue to live together at various motels.

I mean, yeah, the government can't tell you who you can live with, right? That's the fucking problem. Once it's over and if they make up now, now she doesn't even help with the case anymore and they end up back together. And it's like we can disagree on a million things, right? Yeah.

The one thing I think we should all agree on is in a relationship, if weaponry is ever involved, never be together. Weapons? Never, ever. For sure. Anything, really. The line's further back, obviously. It's further back. But one, I mean, maybe it's different in meth country, though. If we're talking about a meth couple, maybe the line is knives. Because after that, maybe they don't even know what they're doing when they're meth-ing.

I don't all up on meth and fucking I don't I have a no clue. But this is that kind of weaponry, though. I mean, I could have killed her. Yeah. If there's any if there's any motion, if there's any violence before the cops finally get there. Yeah. Somebody's really hurt. They could be dead. It's horrible. So in addition to living in various motels together, they end up going and moving into a friend's home in Alabama.

So somebody in Alabama lets them stay with them for some reason. They take a ride four states over? Who the hell would take these people in? Oh, God. Oh, no. Stay at my house, really. Oh, Jesus. This is great. We haven't had the cops here in a while. You guys stay here. I really...

Haven't gotten to know my local police force yet. Yeah, that's a far trip too. Yeah, that's a long car ride. The closest accommodations they could find were Alabama. That tells you a lot. You got to go through Georgia and... Georgia, I think it's Mississippi then. We went through this earlier in the week. I think it's with the Michigan debacle. I'm not positive here, but I think it goes Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana. East to west.

Yeah, because Florida's panhandle is super long. You're right. Yeah, and that's got Georgia, South Carolina and Georgia are above it. I think I could be completely. And Florida. It's above Florida because there's Floribama, they say. So they're connected. So boom. There we go. I think we got this right, Jimmy. All right. I think it's just two states that they had to go through. But that's a long fucking way. That's a lot of states. And it's hot there. So it's more states. Oh, Jesus. There was a fight on the way. You think their air conditioning works well in their car? You think it was their car? I think it was their car.

Whatever fucking car they took. Yeah, there's definitely fighting, too. I think you're right there. 2016, they return to Charleston together. But then they separate. Okay. They separate. Carmi's living in a motel that Daniel pays for with his army benefits, which is the weird thing, too. He gets his money, gives it to her. She stays at a motel. He stays at a homeless camp on Rivers Avenue. So...

I don't know what that is. That's what I'm saying. Maybe he's trying to make up for attacking her with a knife. Yeah, sorry about the knife thing. I'm not living in a homeless camp paying for someone else's motel. We're saying that motel together. For somebody else to have a roof? Fuck that. And I'm under an easy up? Fuck, no way. They maintained a relationship somehow. Like I said, she used his VA benefits to pay for her motel rooms. Yeah.

2017 in January, Daniel's arrested for criminal domestic violence again against Carmi. So this is not good. This is a very volatile cocktail involving gasoline and lit matches and all sorts of shit. There's certainly an open flame. There's an open flame. It's a torch, but it's an open flame. Yeah.

While he was in jail, Carmi gets kicked out of her motel because he stopped paying for it because he's in jail. Yeah. And he can't do it. That is the bummer about relying on somebody else to pay your bills. That's tough. So she gets kicked out of that. She ends up going into a detox center, the Palmetto Behavioral Health Facility, which is a detox slash mental health facility that you apparently don't have to have any money to go to. Yeah.

If she was in the army, she should have some kind of benefit, I would think, that would cover this. I'm not sure how this works. A palmetto is a palm tree. And do you know that palmetto bugs are cockroaches? Did you know that's what they're called?

Isn't that vile? They look like cockroaches. Yeah. That's what they are. Palmetto bugs are cockroaches. It just sounds more charming. Yeah. Because they live in a palm tree. It sounds regional. It's a cockroach on vacation. Yeah. It sounds regional and like a classy cockroach. Oh, no, no. He came in from the shore. He's good. It's a cockroach that drinks Corona. I was going to say, he's got like a little cockroach with a little captain's hat on.

A little captain's hat, cigarette holder, and a Corona. That's his fucking... With a buddy that cuts limes. And another buddy who's got a boat that he lets him borrow, which is nice. You know what I mean? That's a palmetto bug. That's a palmetto bug. We just figured it out.

That's fucking beautiful. So while she's in rehab, detox, whatever the fuck, he is living at a homeless camp behind a Walmart. Now it's fine. It was on like... Rivers Avenue. It was great, right? Yeah, it was nice. Now it's...

Now he's moved into the one behind the Walmart. Oh, boy. Sounds like that's going to get broken up any day, number one. Number two. When they catch him digging through the trash can. Yeah. And also, I would assume, asking people for shit in the parking lot, too. And eating the bologna in the trash can. On your stupid opinions, one of the Walmart reviews we did that one time, the main complaint from everybody was you can't get to your car without having eight people come up to you and ask you for shit.

They're like, you have to throw your shit in your trunk so fast because swarms of people come up. They're like palmetto bugs. They come to you and say, oh, Jesus. I broke my big screen throwing it in my fucking envoy. Yeah. I don't care if it's 85 inches. Get it in there. Hurry up. They're coming. Fucking crap. Slam the trunk on it. I don't care. We got to get out of here. He's lighting a meth pipe as he's walking up to me.

Because Daniel, as we know, homeless people, fine. But Daniel's like smoking meth behind the Walmart. He's a different kind of homeless. He's a dangerous homeless because he's desperate now. Exactly. So she's in there. Now, at the Palmetto Behavioral Health Institute, Carmi meets another woman here. Not in a romantic way, just as a friend. Just a pal. Named Jordan Brooke Lum here. That's not how she's born. Her birth name is Patricia Ann Hill.

So I don't know where she got Jordan Brook Lum from, but that's what it is here. She was born in Pima County, Arizona, actually. Is that right? She's two years older than Carly. A gal named Trish from Southern Arizona? Say it ain't so. Trish Ann Hill from Southern Arizona. That's her.

Trish Hand from fucking Florence, Arizona. Yep. That's where she's from, Pima County. Her parents are Carl Hill, who is a U.S. Air Force veteran. He's a big veteran here. And his mom is Ingrid, and she was from South Carolina. So that's how she kind of went back and forth. She apparently...

Patricia Ann Hill had gotten married and then following her divorce, I don't know if this was like a getaway from her ex-husband thing or whatever it was, but she changed her entire name after her divorce. She changed it to Jordan Brooke Lum. It's gotta be to escape him, right? Forever. So this is basically the Julia Roberts movie where she was the one Julia Roberts movie where she had like a boyfriend who was real mean to her and he had a mustache, which in the early nineties meant he was mean. So,

And then he would beat her up. All I remember about the movie is she had to have the labels facing out on everything or else he would freak out and beat the shit out of her if there was a soup can with a fucking crooked label in the cabinet. Looking at the back of the Hunt's tomato paste. Doesn't want to see the ingredients. I don't even know what it is. I need to peruse it.

So all I remember is that. And then she ran away to some small Southern town where she was like, you know, whatever. And then he found her and was like stalking her around the town. Fried green tomatoes. It's certainly not fried green tomatoes. No. Is it sleeping with the enemy? I think it's sleeping with the enemy is the name of it.

Is that what it is? I'm pretty sure that's what it is. I thought you were being sarcastic. It was a big movie. It was a giant hit movie, actually. Like a huge, giant hit movie. And she had to have the labels turned down, huh? Yeah, that's what I remember. She knew he was stalking her when she went into her cabinets and all her labels were turned forward. She was like, oh my God, and freaked out. And he was in the house and I don't know.

I think she killed him or something. Sounds like a Rebecca De Mornay movie. Was she busy? I think she was probably rocking the cradle at that point. She was the hand rocking the cradle and then this happened. I love that lady. She's so rad.

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Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash smalltownmurder to get free shipping and 365-day returns. quince.com slash smalltownmurder. Now back to the show. So here's Jordan, Brooke Love. February of 2017, they're both in rehab. That's how they meet. Jordan's in rehab and so is Carmi. And she invites, Jordan invites Carmi and Carmi's pets as well. She's got dogs and shit like that.

invites her to move in with her to her house and live there rent-free. You can just live with me. You and all your pets. You and all your pets. I looked up the house. It's at 199 Angora Way in Somerville. Three bedroom, two bath, 2,058 square foot. Nice house. Jesus. It's a very nice house. And this lady was living there all by herself. And she said, you and your pets, please. By all means. So they hit it off, these two. As roommates, they're like Laverne and Shirley. They're having a good time.

But it doesn't take long for Carmi to not be so high on Jordan. Oh, really? Yeah. Not the other way around, you would imagine. How? Get the fuck out of my house with your meth pipe. We were just in rehab. Yeah.

No, actually, it's the other way around. In the first month of living together, they started fighting all the time. They drank was the problem, too. They got out of rehab. They started drinking. They would both drink and then they'd fight with each other and have big arguments. It's such a big mistake for any sort of substance abuse. Oh, Christ. Go to another one. You know what I mean? That's just what they do.

A lot of them. Carmi will basically seems to be, we'll do whatever's around. So if there's booze, she'll drink booze. If there's pills, she'll do pills. If she can get some crack and meth, great. We'll do that too. And that's a woman who's licensed to be a traveling nurse. That's frightening. That's what she was doing for a living. I don't know if her license is active at this very moment in time. Can't be, right? But I would hope...

Is there a meth test involved there? Just want to make sure you're not on meth. Nothing else. Everything else is fine, but just make sure you're not smoking meth. That's a little much, we feel like. Dabbling in crack. Make sure you're not doing either of those. Yeah, either one. Either or. Two of the baselines. Or probably pills, because you'll have more access to them than other people. Any sort of heroin-based something. Let's not have you on that. So, Carmi, by the way, still always talking to Daniel and hanging out with Daniel. They're still...

She can't quit him. She got out of jail for beating her up again. She would text him. Carmi would text Daniel referring to Jordan as a psychotic bitch. And she's an awful fucking bitch. I can't live with her. She's terrible. Blah, blah, blah. You're living there for free. You're staying there for free. You're living there for free. You should probably just try to make it good. You know what I mean? You're allowed to leave. Carmi didn't like to clean. She wasn't a big cleaner. She wasn't big on housework. Yeah.

And she said that Jordan would ask her to clean and it pissed her off. Well, you're living there rent free with your dogs. Probably do some chores. Yeah. You're not a 13 year old kid or something. This is your adult. Pick up a mop for fuck's sake. She said that Jordan treated her like a maid. She said, she treats me like a, like a maid.

You're living there for free, man. That's the thing, yeah. You gotta clean wherever you live. Wherever you live, you gotta clean. And if someone's paying all your bills, you should probably clean a little extra. A little extra. A little extra oomph there. Emphasis. Wipe the rim of the toilet every day. Yeah, give her one of those. Clean up your dog's shit in the yard. Things like that. So Jordan would also listen to, she would complain anyway, I don't know if this is true or just meth paranoia, but Carmi would complain that Jordan would listen to her phone calls every

And like, oh, she's listening, which is a meth thing that, you know, paranoia is big. Everybody's out to get me. And she was, Carmi said she's suspicious of her for listening to my phone calls. Jordan, by the way, in addition to letting Carmi stay there for free with her fucking dogs and everything else, also would loan Carmi money all the time.

Okay. Yeah. Loan her money. And then Carmi would keep asking for money repeatedly. And then Jordan eventually said no. Jordan's got to have some kind of income stream because she lives in a nice house that's apparently hers. It sold in early 2014. So that's when I think that's her house. She bought it then. And so I don't understand here. Like she's got to have some kind of money. She can afford to loan her money. She can pay her bills. Yeah. Doesn't make a lot of sense. So.

Carmi gets very pissed off that she won't loan her money anymore. She's like, listen...

Fun is fun, but, you know, Carmi got to get some fucking crack here. Carmi needs her crack fix. So she wants to stay in your house for free with her pets, not clean a goddamn thing, and also give me money, please. She wants to be a teenager, basically. Yeah, she wants to be a teenager or a sugar baby. Yeah. And she's 50 years old, so it's like... Oh, my God. Come on now. This ship has certainly sailed. So then Jordan started getting phone calls...

from, you know, people that wouldn't identify themselves demanding that she give them money. Give us money. Who are you? I won't tell you. Give us money. Goodbye. Okay. Um, later on, it's found out that those phone calls are from Carmi and Daniel. Right. Yeah. Trying to get her to give them money. So,

Jordan also thought, and rightfully so because it was true, that Carmi was sneaking Daniel into the home. Daniel wasn't allowed to come in. That was part of the deal. Yeah, because we've been to rehab together. I know who you did meth with. Yeah, not only that. And you guys fight.

That's what it is, is he just got arrested in January for beating the shit out of her. And he's like, she's like, Jordan doesn't want, you know, violence in her home, which is perfectly reasonable. It's a very reasonable thing. I've heard nothing psychotic bitch about her yet. Not yet. No, she seems pretty fucking reasonable. So actually pretty nice and accommodating, honestly, like a real nice person.

Pretty amazing friend, to be honest. Yeah. Keeping Carmi from living in the street, living behind the Walmart with her fucking husband. I wouldn't let somebody that's done meth stay in my home. Fuck no. Just recovering from a problem of it. I'm going to bring in my meth addict husband who beats the shit out of me, too. Is that cool? And your dogs? And my dogs, yeah. They have a lot of skin conditions and stuff. Yeah.

Like I would wipe down surfaces that they sit on and things like that. The other one, his asshole leaks also. So that you're going to find. And he likes to just put it on everything. He really likes to rub it. So you got to get in there. Now, Carmi here, they're fighting a lot now, Carmi and Jordan. And Jordan got angry that Daniel was coming over and said, you got to get out. No more. This is crazy. I'm trying to recover and have a life here. And, you know, you're not helping. Yeah.

So Carmi said, no, please, please, come on. She said, I'll be better, Carmi said. Don't kick me out. I'll do stuff. She said, I'll even tell you what. I'll take the car. I'll go by. I'll do the grocery shopping for you so you don't have to right now. I'm going to start right now with my car.

With my chores. Starting now. Do all the grocery shopping. Carmi didn't come back for hours and hours and hours. Way longer than it takes to grocery shop. She just left. Didn't come back until tonight. She just left and Jordan didn't know where the fuck she was. So Jordan called the police.

Stolen car. Yeah, this lady just took my car and fucking left, and God knows where she took it. She's probably taking it to the homeless camp to get him and then over to get meth. Check behind the Walmart first. Yeah, there's going to be jizz all over it by the time she gets it back. Yeah, it's going to be gross. Because those couples that fight with each other and do smoke meth together and all that, they also are very horny for each other. Well, they have to. That way they can make terrible kids they can't take care of.

We're high on meth. Let's fucking recreate procreate, please recreate. No, that's not the word I'm looking for. So at that point, also, Carmi started asking Daniel, you why don't we you should beat the shit out of Jordan. You clearly have no problem beating up women. So, yeah, if you could beat her up, that would be great. Now, what we should do is you should come over, beat the living shit out of her. Then we'll take her designer clothes and sell them.

Is this the methiest plan ever? Yeah, this is not good. You're going to get caught for this, you think? And you're going to get $28. What are you going to get for designer clothes? You're going to go to Buffalo Exchange. They're going to give you 10% of what they're going to sell it for. And that 10% is in credit to the store. To the store. You're getting other clothes for these clothes. Which then you're going to have to sell your credit for meth at half the rate of price of that. So now you've broken it down even further. All right. You've stepped on these things.

You stepped on the profits so much. So much. You're getting $11. You've watered it way down. So that was one plan that they came up with, but that never really happened. Good. The Daniel come over, beat her up, take the clothes. So then-

They've lived together for like a month, for Christ's sake. And this is all happening in the period of a month, a month and a half. Wow. Imagine pissing someone off that much that fast. That fucking fast. There was no honeymoon period where like Carmi would do stuff and be fine. And then she stopped doing stuff little by little. She just was like, hi, I'm here with all my shit. I'm not doing anything. My crackhead abusive husband's coming over at eight. So if you could clear out of the living room, thanks. Dropped her bags on the horse and put those away. Put those away.

We're going to fuck on your couch. And also, my dog's got skin conditions, so I told you that. Watch out for that. So late March 2017, Jordan calls the cops on Carmi for some reason. So this is now two times she's had to call the cops on her already. In a month. That's a lot here. Then this really pissed Carmi off.

obviously so she wrote tons of text messages to Jordan just telling her what a bitch she is and how horrible she is and shit and also put up Matt all sorts of Facebook posts about what a bitch her roommate was which is right I love how in 2017 by that you can you wasn't just she told her friend on the phone it's fucking everybody on the Facebook everybody she's known since the seventh grade she told

So April 2nd, 2017, I guess Carmi's truck was at a hotel that she was at at one point. It had been sitting there. So it was Daniel's job to pick up the truck from the motel and drive it. What am I saying? Hotel. It's motel. For sure. And go to Jordan's house with the truck to give it to Carmi. Yeah. So I have a car.

So on the morning of April 2nd, 2017, text messages show that they were fighting with each other. Carmi was mad at Jordan for calling the police and that, you know, they're going back and forth. She's a bitch. She's that. And so she said, get my truck and come here, and that way you can help me fight with Jordan, basically. Yeah. That'll help. Bring over another asshole who's not even invited to help. Yeah.

However, though, on the way there, because before the drive, Daniel smoked meth, crack, and drank a bunch. Hell yeah. So he's really fucking knee deep into this night. Yeah, he's ready to go. So he crashed the truck on the way there because he's all fucked up on three different things.

None of which make you a better driver, by the way. That's crack or booze. He was trying to balance it, like make it perfect. No, he fucked up. And he hit a tree with it. Yeah. So he crashed and all that kind of shit and finally shows up in the afternoon from the morning. I'll be there in a little bit. And he finally shows up in the afternoon. Somehow he didn't get arrested.

Yeah. How's he there? Must've crashed in a rural enough area that nobody noticed is all I can imagine here. So by the time he gets to the house, Jordan is dead.

What? She's like, okay, now we got a different problem. Yeah. Carmi's like, I wanted to. Yeah. A lot of stuff happened in the meantime. Okay, let me fill you in. First off, you missed everything. And she shows him Jordan's body. Oh, boy. And she has, as we'll find out more specifically later on, 113 sharp and blunt force wounds. 113. Wow.

That's so much energy. Sustained attack. With multiple weapons. Oh, my. As well. This is to her head, neck, torso, arms, you name it. Just a whole body. Knives, a hammer, and a screwdriver were all used in this. Different knives, too. She was picking up shit, whatever she could find, and plunging it into this person, apparently. So over the next two days...

car me and Daniel spend in the house with the dead body with Jordan's dead body, drinking, taking pills, smoking meth and fucking trying to figure out how to clean this up. Basically while a woman is decomposing to the earth in there, that's a garage. That's the woman whose house you're at by the way, who owns this motherfucker. So,

This is wild. And they figure the best way to concoct a plan is to get real high on meth and booze first and then do it and take a bunch of pills. You can't even drive a car that way. He couldn't even make it across town. No shit.

So April 4th, 2017, a couple days later, they're in the house. Now, they've been in the house getting fucked up together for two days. What do you think's happening? They're fighting now. Oh, it's getting so bad. They've been up for two fucking days with a dead body and all this anxiety and all this stress and all this type of shit. So many bad ideas have been...

Oh, God, what I would not pay to be there listening to all of these bad ideas. I want footage. I would love surveillance video of them. It's 2017. How did they not tape this? Oh, my God. Of them in the... Oh, there's recordings. Don't worry. Don't worry. There'll be recordings, Jimmy. But I want the full video of them in the living room trying to figure it out, arguing with each other about ideas. No, that's a bad idea. You're dumb. And then, no, but you're an idiot. Amazing. Who?

Whose best idea was what? So by April 4th, she starts turning her vitriol on her husband here and making threats against him that I'm going to blame you for this. And he better tread lightly because he can clearly see what she's capable of. That's what I mean. So as a result, what he does is...

He makes a couple recordings and then slips out and calls 911. He's like, I got to cover my ass. Hey, wait. I was not here. I'm fine. Yeah. You know how I wasn't here when you killed that girl, right? Say it, right? It wasn't I? You say it out loud. Just say it, please.

If you could just... Remember when you killed that girl when I wasn't in the house? Remember that?

I just showed up and she was better. Remember when I was fucked up crashing your truck and you was murdering people? Remember that? This guy just pictured Kenny Powers for some reason from fucking eastbound and down. Just like, remember that? Remember when I was doing that? Remember that? I wasn't even here. I wasn't even here for that, right? He records two conversations. The first was Carmi talking about how he had wrecked her truck and complaining. And he was trying to get her to that. And she's like, and your fucking dumb ass is wrecking my fucking truck.

And the second one was her admitting to murdering Jordan by herself. Perfect. Perfect. So he made the recording. Soon as he was done making him, he packed up his shit and was like, I'll be back in a minute. And then went and called 911 instead. I'm going to go get us some meth and then I'll eat your pussy for seven hours. It's going to be amazing.

Wait till you hear how she got him to come over to help with this. That's even better. Oh, my God. So 911, hello, 911, and he said, there's been a murder. That's the first thing he said. There's been a murder. That's got to be it. Oh, God. Number one. It's so good. Yeah. His wife, he said his wife asked him to help clean up because she was going away for rehab, and he knew something was wrong when he got there. He said, quote, I smelled something.

She said, that's just old garbage. Decomposing body is never mistaken for old garbage. And by the way, you wouldn't smell something a few hours after somebody died. Probably. Maybe only smell blood. Maybe. Yes. You'd smell something, but not like, oh, what is that? Right. Smell. And that quote. Yeah, that's just the old garbage. Then she's like, oh, by the way, we got to dispose of this body. He said this to the 911 operator. This is a transcript from 911. Awesome. Yeah.

Quote, she showed me the body. It's in the garage. It's in a crate wrapped up in blankets. She said that she bludgeoned her in the head with a hammer a few times. Then she sliced her neck. Then she stabbed her a bunch.

He said a bunch. A bunch, yeah. How Southern, yeah. She was drinking heavily. She was yelling, cussing, and fussing, he said. He said cussing and fussing. She's just in there cussing and fussing, boy, I tell you what. Oh, God. Cussing and fussing. They said, where is she now? And she said, she's all drunk and she's cussing and fussing. She's drunk as a skunk, cussing and fussing. Cussing and fussing. She's harking and jerking and all kinds of different things.

Hooting and hollering. Hooting, hollering, man. Mussing and tossing. He said he didn't mean to help her try to cover the crime, but I guess I did. He said, quote, I didn't realize what I was cleaning up until it was too late. Are you kidding me? Idiot.

A throat was cut. There was a fucking massive pool of blood. What did you say? I got my period late? Somebody was stabbed with screwdrivers and hit with hammers. You know what blood is. It's a blood spatter on the wall. It's blood pooled on the floor. Where the fuck did all this blood come from? I spilled some fucking Hawaiian punch? What are we talking about? My tampon fell down and I stepped on it. That's not what happened. Boom, it exploded everywhere. It was like a grape.

So he said, I didn't realize what I was cleaning up until it was too late. I was polishing some chairs and tables and stuff. The lady who lived there was a real pigsty. This lady who lived there was a real pigsty. A person being described as a pigsty I've never heard before. I guess you can call someone a train wreck, so why not a pigsty? They can be an event. They can be a place, too. Yeah.

He then says, but what I'm wondering is, am I getting in trouble now too? Yes. That's a fun wonder. Short answer, yes.

He said, I'm not sure who's going to be in trouble. The dispatcher said, I'm not sure who's going to be in trouble. I just take phone calls. Yeah. So the police arrive when they arrive. Carmi is she's cussing and fussing. All right. She's shit face drunk, ranting and raving, holding a large kitchen knife to her own throat, threatening to kill herself.

If you don't get the fuck out of here, I'm going to kill myself. So policeman tries to persuade her to drop the weapon, but she just got more agitated, just pissed her off more. She's all, you're not going to reason with her at this point. What'd they hit her with? Well, they ended up kicking in the door and disarming her.

So I think she tried. They kicked in the door. I think she tried to run down the hall or something. And they tackled her and got the knife out of her hand type of deal. But they should have tased her, I feel like, in this. That would have been awesome. This is the ultimate. If she was just suicidal, it would be one thing. You don't want to tase her. But if she just killed someone and she's like, get out of my fucking house. Fuck you. Tase you. Here you go. Hit her with it. Rub a bullet. It's fucking anything. Yeah, whatever. So that's what happened. The policeman then asks her, where's Jordan?

Where's your roommate? And she said, oh, she's away at a detox facility in California. She won't be here for a couple weeks. Oh, she doesn't know. She won't be back is what she says for a while here. Yeah. She's completely unaware what he's done. Yes. I have no idea. She has no clue. Daniel told me she was in a rehab. I don't know what's going on.

But the police then obviously, it's been days now, so they smell Jordan pretty good. And they go out in the garage and they find, also Daniel told them she's in the garage. They go out in the garage and they find her decomposing body wrapped in a blanket, put in a wooden crate, just like Daniel said. They also find a bloody knife nearby. That's helpful. That's real helpful. They could determine the body had been decomposing for a couple days based on the smell and the bloat and the smell.

All of that. And the fucking condition of that body. Jesus. Now, shockingly, Carmi and Daniel have very different versions of what happened. Is that right? It's weird, right? Strange. Uh, here's Daniel. Daniel said here that after his, his truck wreck one on, during one of several phone calls with Carmi after the wreck, she casually mentioned on the phone call quote, Oh, by the way, we got to dispose of this body. Yeah. Like,

Like, what are we doing tonight? I don't know. We'll probably get pizza. That's cool. Yeah, well, you want to stop there? That's all right. Maybe Dairy Queen. But we got to dispose of this body, too, on the way. Oh, all right. Yeah, we'll pencil that in. First things first. Figure out dinner. Second thing, dispose of the body. Third thing, get the dinner. Get the dinner. Yeah. Well, water it first, then kill. Then dispose. Then pick it up when it's ready. That'll take the time. Looking for a way to simplify your family's back-to-school journey?

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That's cvs.com slash stories. CVS, making healthier happen together. We get support from Dove. Hey y'all, it's your girl Kiki Palmer, host of the Wondery Podcast. Baby, this is Kiki Palmer. Let me cut to the chase. Did you know that in many states across the U.S., it's still not illegal to discriminate against people based on the way their hair grows out of their head? To deny black folks from jobs and opportunities because they have braids, locks, twists, or bantu knots? That's messed

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But because Carmi said, if you come over and help me, I got four things I'll do for you. Oh, here we go. The first thing. Well, no, that's coming up later. The first thing is I'll drop those charges against you from January. Best blowjob ever. I'll drop the charges. Then offered him, and he quotes, she said just like this, pills, alcohol, and sex. Okay. We got pills, booze, and I'll fuck you. He's like...

See, a man can't resist that. Drop charges, booze, pills, and sex. We will dispose of a body for that. That's how pathetic we are. We're like, all right, sounds good. You going to let me do that thing I like to do? All right, fine. He said that's why he went there. He said that Carmi told him that Jordan hit her. That's why. Jordan had hit her, and then she said, well, I hit her back over the head with a hammer while she was sleeping.

And then stabbed her in the neck and body because she was still moving after being bashed in the fucking head with a hammer. And she did this because Jordan hit her. And her dog. She said that she was. Waiting until she fell asleep? She was holding her. She said that Jordan was holding Carmi hostage, which is the opposite. She wanted Carmi to leave. And she said she was hitting Carmi's dog all the time. Just beating her dog senseless. So I had to kill her.

Daniel said over the next couple days, Carmi cleaned up the house, drank, took pills, discussed what to do with the body. They both helped. He helped her throw Jordan in a crate in the garage. And Carmi then two days after the death, this is on the 4th, Carmi drove Jordan's car home.

To a grocery store and a liquor store to buy more cleaning supplies and, of course, more beer and liquor. Because, you know, according to Daniel, when she returned, quote, things went downhill quick.

When she got drunk. Weird, right? Because they were frequently fighting. That's when he said he decided to record the conversations they were having on his phone to protect himself from being blamed for murder. Cause she's like, I'll just say you did it. You beat me up. They'll just, they'll believe you. I'll believe it. Yeah. So the body, like we said, autopsy of Jordan here, um,

She had 113 wounds to her head, neck, chest, and upper extremities. Dr. Batalis is the doctor here. He will testify later on that blood force trauma wounds to her head were consistent with her being struck by a hammer and were fatal, as were the sharp force injuries to her neck. She had holes in her skull. She had 19 stab wounds to her chest.

which were knife wounds. There was no surviving any of these three attacks. This was just a messed up lunatic in a frenzy attack. Everything she hit her with was fatal. That is crazy. Cut her throat, stabbed her, bashed her head in with a hammer.

They also said the cause of death was a combination of blunt and sharp force wounds. And so there's that. Now, Carmi's got a much different version of what happened, surprisingly enough. Yeah. She said that Daniel arrived at the home.

And once Daniel arrived at the home, they were going to go out together. She and Daniel. Oh, no. She was going to go out with Jordan because she didn't want to go out with Daniel because she was mad at him because he wrecked her truck. Yeah. He crashed my truck. Yeah. No, bad guy. So she said she got in the shower, Carmi did, to prepare to go out for the night with Jordan. They're going to go hang out somewhere. Yeah.

She said that she heard while in the shower, you know, in the shower, you can hear only if it's very loud. You're muffled shit. Yeah. And you don't care anything about it because you're in the shower. Fuck. So put on my face. I'm in the shower. I don't give a fuck. Don't care. Don't give a shit what you're doing out there. So behind my balls, I don't give a shit about what's going on. I'm going to get it out of my ass and then I'm going to go see what's wrong.

So she said that she's in the shower. She could hear Jordan screaming, but she didn't think anything of it because this is great. Jordan often yelled at the neighbors or at her cat. She's yelling. Full-throated yelling at your cat that someone could hear in the shower. What the fuck could a cat do to cause that? So she said when, Carmi said when she got left the bathroom, Jordan was dead.

Then Carmi said that Daniel took her cell phone, disconnected all the landlines in the house, and held Carmi hostage for multiple days by threatening her pets. If you run out of here, I'll kill your pets the second you leave. Kill them all. He knows how much those mean to her. She admitted, yes, I did go to the supermarket and the grocery store, but...

I only did it because of Daniel's request, and I couldn't just leave and go to the cops because he threatened to harm my pets if I called the police. So, you know, the cops are going to be banging on the door while he's just stabbing pets all around the house. Come back here, you little son of a bitch. Trying to get a cat out from under the bed. Yeah. If it's a cat, they were safe. Good luck. They never...

You scare a cat, you won't see it for two days. Yeah, you won't know where the hell it is. It'll be hiding like in a wall somewhere somehow. How did it get in there? So yeah, that's what she claimed. After Daniel called 911 and directed the police to the house, they kicked in the door. Obviously, they indict her for murder. They're going to indict him as accessory after the fact because he has all these text messages of basically her saying,

Very things that mean I killed this lady and you need to help me out. He did nothing about it. And he wasn't even there. So they know that already. So, but they know that he went over there with the, under the auspice of getting a blow job and doing drugs. Yeah, exactly. Fucking weird. If you know, there's a body there. That's accessory after the fact. And they said, that's a criminal act at that point. Absolutely. Can't just clean up blood and get a blow job and think you're fucking skating on shit. Now,

So during the trial, Carmi goes to trial, and during the defense's opening, the defense says, look, she's dead. Carmi was around. We understand this. She was definitely in the house. But the only thing that we're saying here is that

It was Daniel that did it, not Carmi. So we're not saying Carmi's an angel. We're not saying she didn't clean up and all that. But she did it for Daniel because Daniel threatened her. She said, quote, this is the opening. We agree that the victim was brutally murdered. We agree that she had at least 90 wounds to her body. 113 to be exact. We agree with the prosecutor about her cause of death. Well, there's really no disagreeing about that. That's science. That's amazing.

That's science. Yeah. Are you a doctor? Probably not. Then shut the fuck up. You don't know what you're talking about. You know, I'm not a doctor and I know that there is nothing that causes all those wounds. No, other than what happened naturally. No. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. This lawyer is like not a doctor at all. So he said, we agree about where she was killed. We agree in general what the murder weapon was. And we agree that on April 4th, Daniel Nelson called police and reported a murder. We disagree about one thing.

Who killed her. Yeah, that's it. Daniel testifies, obviously he's the star witness because they make it, they make a deal with him. Yeah. And, uh, she said that he, on the stand, he said, Carmi had asked him to harass and assault Jordan, even to go as far as to start planning Jordan's murder.

And Daniel said he never agreed to help kill Jordan, but he admitted that she might have believed he agreed to do so. I might have said it to get her to shut the fuck up is what he basically said. Because if she's going to be persistent. Yeah. Tell me a million times that you didn't lie to a woman for sex. Yeah. Yeah.

No shit. So Daniel admitted to that. He admitted that he had been charged with an accessory after the murder, after the fact of the murder. He also said, because on cross-examination you have charges here for domestic violence against Carmi that's coming up, unlawful use of 911, and filing a false report. So that's all of his charges that are pending.

And he also said that he had provided law enforcement with multiple versions of his involvement in the murder and his attempt to make himself look less guilty, he said. That's what it was. I didn't want to look as bad. He said, including telling 911 and the police that he did not know Carmi had killed the victim when she asked him to come help clean the house. And he said that when he said he didn't know what he was cleaning up when in reality he knew it was blood. He knew exactly what he was doing.

She told him, come over here and clean this fucking body up with him. And he said, okay. And he ran over there and did blood. Now the photos here, they put in, the state calls the medical examiner who performed the autopsy. And they put out these photos for evidence. And they end up letting in some very graphic photos, the judge does. Especially exhibits 75 and 76 are close-up photos of Jordan's body.

quote, gruesome head and neck wounds, and they show partial decomposition of the body. These aren't just...

A whole thing. These are close-ups. These are photos from... Oh, good Lord. State Exhibit 77 depicts the victim lying on her stomach, showing stab wounds on her back and her swollen head, but does not display the partial decomposition or her more gruesome wounds. The doctor testified the photos show fatal blunt force wounds on the head where the, quote, skull had been shattered away. Oh, boy. He said, you can actually see to the brain there.

That's from the hammer. Also, the photo showed several sharp force wounds on Jordan's neck, namely that her throat had been cut and

They noted that the photo showed some green discoloration on her head where she was decomposing. They had a diagram of the victim's injuries that they made, and they could testify about everything here. So this is a pretty graphic testimony, obviously. They objected to all the autopsy photos, noting that they were extra gruesome and would inflame the passions of the jury, which is the legal language you have to use in this situation. Sure.

but that they could testify using a diagram. But the state asserted the photos were probative to the victim's cause of death and would aid in the description of the wounds to show them. The trial court admitted all the photos based on the doctor's testimony and the fact that he says it would help him show the jury the cause of death. Okay.

Prosecution in closing, she testifies as well, saying how terrible Daniel was and made her do all this stuff. He's a monster. He's a monster. The prosecution says it was Carmi Nelson who had motive, opportunity, and the temper and a desire to kill Jordan Lum. Yeah. It's her. Daniel had nothing with the fuck here, so...

Verdict comes in. She is found guilty of murder. Yes. During sentencing, Carmi's daughter spoke on her behalf. She's got a kid. Oh, boy. She's got a kid from before. She was 33 when she met him. She said, I want you to know she's a good person. She's a giving person. Please be strong.

That's what she said. Then Carmi said back to her daughter, please be strong. God will take care of everything. Oh, boy. And maybe she's right because the judge says you, ma'am, may fuck off life in prison. So there you go. All taken care of.

We are now safe. We're all safe. The prosecutor afterwards said the jury saw right through Carmi Nelson's lies and attempts to blame her husband for this heinous crime. Her recorded statements two days after the murder and her text messages in the days leading up to the murder clearly show her hatred and vitriol towards Jordan Lum and left no doubt as to who was responsible for her brutal murder.

So, yeah. Saying she's going to spend the rest of her life behind bars. Daniel, on the other hand, he'll be in a homeless camp in no time. How long does he get? Well, he pleads guilty to accessory after the fact, and he receives, you, sir, may fuck off five years.

He's already out. Oh, well out. Yeah. Cause that includes time served while he's waiting to testify and all that. He was out in time for fucking COVID. Oh yeah. Yeah. No, he was. Jesus. Carmi had a quick, a quick appeal that was in the conviction was upheld on appeal in 2020. A, uh, there's a show called fear of thy roommate, which only had eight episodes. I don't think it worked real well. And it's a show about people murdering their roommates, which I mean, that's a pretty specific niche to get into for murder. Yeah.

You might want to open it up. Imagine if we only did one very specific kind of murder. It'd be really weird. Roommate murder. Fuck, man. Just roommate murder. We'd be done by now. Yeah, we would have been done fucking Jesus within six months. So August 2023 comes around. Recent. Carmi appeals to the state Supreme Court based on the admission of extra gruesome photographs.

And the Supreme Court says that the admission of these excessively gruesome photos unnecessarily created the potential for the jury to convict Carmi of the murder based on inflamed emotions in a case where the jury was provided with undisputed evidence as to how the victim died, as well as ample evidence that she had been killed with malice, whether by Carmi or Daniel. The potential for a verdict based on emotion was amplified by the fact that the jury was informed that Daniel had also been charged with

in connection with the case, but only faced an accessory after the fact of murder. They say,

Also saying that the prosecutors had established the malice element in other ways, including the car me's disparaging texts about Jordan Lum days before she was killed. Testimony that Carmi Nelson had asked her husband to harass and assault Lum and a recording that Daniel took of his wife saying she attacked the victim while she was on the couch and kept beating her after she fell to the ground, then stabbed her 90 times. Hmm.

So they said the fact that the medical examiner testified that he believed the autopsy pictures would better help the jury understand the injuries wasn't enough. They found they said, we believe the average juror could understand just from the doctor's testimony that the victim had died as a result of being bludgeoned in the head with a hammer, having her throat cut and being stabbed multiple times in the chest.

We note these photos provide no insight into as to who killed the victim. In this instance where the photos were not needed to prove an issue in the case, the state should have heeded our warning in another case to resist pushing the envelope on a misability to gain victory, which was likely already assured reversed.

What? Not only sentence conviction, thrown the fuck out. Just because of the, wow, they have to do it all over again? They have to retry her if they want. And this is rough because you also have a crackhead guy with domestic violence things. And she can say, oh, I was scared of him. That's a big deal. So they're worried about it. Then she makes a deal finally to avoid a retrial.

And that is in March of 2024. So very recently. My God. Yesterday. She pleads guilty this time and is sentenced to an agreement here with the state. And the judge honors the agreement. You, ma'am, may fuck off 30 years. Oh, boy. But she will have to serve 30 years before she's up for any count. She's 80. She's getting out after, yeah, in her 80s. Because now she's, I think, she'll be like 85, I think. Oh.

Oh, no. She gets credit for the few years she's already served. So she'll be 80. She'll be 80, yeah. She'll be 80 when she gets out. Yeah, if she makes it that long. She ain't going to

No. Now, Jordan Brooke Hill, here, Hill's her original name, she is buried at the North Charleston County, South Carolina, the Carolina Memorial Park in North Charleston. So she's there. Now, the house at 199 Angora, where all this horror happened, sold in 2018. It sold the next year.

What the shit? They didn't knock it down. They just fucking repainted it. What'd they sell it for? It was sold in 2018 for $277,500. $300,000 for a murder house? For a murder house. Oh my God. The population was booming, so people were like, fuck it, we'll repaint. We can get a deal, 20 grand off a murder house. Yeah, Chick was murdered there, but that's fine, right? We need a bargain. We need a bargain.

So right now it's currently worth like 400 something thousand to this house. And there's also and this confused if you're looking up this case. Yeah. Look out for Carmi Nelson, who is Carmi Shiano Nelson, who is a ballet dancer and apparently a really good like soloist ballet dancer. Yeah.

Who at the age of 12 was accepted to the Kirov Academy of Ballet and attended the year round boarding school there. She graduated high school early and continued her training with the Boston Ballet and has attended summer programs everywhere on the face of the fucking earth.

Dances professionally with the Festival Ballet Providence, Richmond Ballet, American Contemporary Ballet as a soloist, and the Columbia City Ballet for 10 seasons. She's amazing. The complete opposite of the other Carmi Nelson. Like a driven, successful, I assume not high on meth and booze,

Her husband probably doesn't live in a homeless camp behind Walmart. Yeah, she probably pays her own rent. Probably pays her own rent with all that. I don't know what kind of... How lucrative ballet is, but she probably... At least enough to pay the rent, I would think. Yeah, yeah. So there you go, everybody. That's Somerville. Holy shit. South Carolina and quite the tale of...

Just craziness. Imagine being in that house. I'd rather have an infestation of palmetto bugs than an infestation of carmies. Of a carmie? Yeah. An army of carmies? Jesus. A carmie of one? I don't even want a carmie of one. No.

It's a bad woman. And Daniel's not great either. Two terrible people got together and were even more terrible. They're awful. So if you like that show, tell the world about it. Get on whatever app you're listening on and give us a review. It does help tremendously. I can't tell you how much. I don't know why, but it does. It's their weird algorithm and

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you

I'm Dan Taberski. In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York. I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad. I'm like, stop f***ing around. She's like...

I can't. A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast. It's like doubling and tripling, and it's all these girls. With a diagnosis the state tried to keep on the down low. Everybody thought I was holding something back. Well, you were holding something back intentionally. Yeah, well, yeah.

No, it's hysteria. It's all in your head. It's not physical. Oh my gosh, you're exaggerating. Is this the largest mass hysteria since The Witches of Salem? Or is it something else entirely? Something's wrong here. Something's not right. Leroy was the new dateline and everyone was trying to solve the murder. A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios. Hysterical.

Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery+.