Jim and Tammy Faye Bakker | Holy War | 3
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Wondery Plus subscribers can binge new seasons of American Scandal early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. It's April 17th, 1987, in a hotel conference room in West Palm Beach, Florida. Jerry Falwell is seated at the end of a long conference table, watching as members of PTL's board of directors sit down around him. Much like Falwell himself, the men have graying hair and sour expressions.

None of them want to be here right now. But Falwell has called them in today to help with an unpleasant but necessary task, cleaning up another man's mess. Last month, the Charlotte Observer revealed that PTL president Jim Baker cheated on his wife with a church secretary named Jessica Hahn. Hahn claimed that Baker sexually assaulted her. And to keep her from going public, members of PTL's leadership arranged for Hahn to receive a six-figure hush money payout.

When Falwell first heard the news, he was sickened. But what happened next was truly surprising. Baker and his executive vice president, Richard Dortch, reached out to him begging for help. They said that Baker would need to resign from PTL until the scandal blew over, and they asked Falwell to step in as acting president.

Falwell agreed, confident he'd be up to the task. Falwell is one of the nation's most respected televangelists, host of the long-running Old Time Gospel Hour. Surely he could redeem PTL in the eyes of the public, but he quickly learned it would not be so easy.

Once installed as PTL's new president, Falwell reviewed the company books and saw that the ministry is not just in a moral crisis but a financial one too. The figures just don't add up. Jim Baker's salary was outrageous. The PTL's lifetime partnership program was a disaster and possibly illegal. Falwell came in believing PTL was a ship that drifted from its righteous course, but now it's clear the boat is sinking.

That's why Falwell scheduled today's meeting. He recently appointed an entirely new board, with the exception of Dortch. And he needs everyone to know that things must change at PTL. As Falwell watches as Dortch enters the conference room and closes the door behind him, he's the last board member to arrive. Falwell then waits for Dortch to take his seat, and then begins. All right, gentlemen, we need to have a serious talk about the future. I must tell you, I'm

Shocked and disappointed by some of the things I've discovered about PTL. Over the last several years, tens of millions of dollars that should have gone into building Heritage USA hotels went to paying other bills instead. That is, when it wasn't going into Jim Baker's pocket. Also, the lifetime partnerships have been oversold. We might be violating securities law. All of this has got to stop.

Richard Dortch leans forward. Well, with all due respect, Reverend Falwell, the Lifetime Partnerships bring in a lot of money. PTL needs that money to survive right now. We asked our lawyers about the partnerships a long time ago. They okayed everything. Well, my lawyers disagree, so the Lifetime Partnerships are out, Richard. We could go bankrupt. That is the least of our worries. Jim could wind up in jail for all of this.

and I have no intention of winding up there next to him. So no more of these shenanigans now that I'm president, understood? Reverend, you're acting president. The plan is for Jim to return. Well, yes, that is the plan, but plans change, don't they?

And another thing, this Forgiven PR campaign that you and Jim launched with Forgiven lapel pins, baseball, Forgiven written out in flowers outside the PTL Welcome Center? Yes, what about it? It's canceled. And now I call for a vote to certify the recommendations I've made here today. So, all in favor of ending the Lifetime Partnerships Program and the Forgiven campaign, say aye. The vote is taken and Falwell prevails. He adjourns the meeting and follows the other board members out of the conference room.

Falwell clenches his jaw as he makes his way toward the hotel's exit. It's clearer than ever that Baker was enabled by people like Dorch for far too long. It will take a lot of work to clean PTL up, and Falwell is just getting started.

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Help Dell make a difference and shop AI-ready PCs powered by Snapdragon X-series processors at dell.com slash deals. That's dell.com slash deals. From Wondery, I'm Lindsey Graham, and this is American Scandal. In 1987, the empire that Jim and Tammy Faye Baker had spent their lives building was beginning to fall apart. Following media exposure of Jessica Hahn's sexual assault allegations, Jim faced a very public reckoning.

Suddenly, his lifestyle and business decisions were being questioned by everyone, from evangelical leaders and the press to the federal government. But Baker didn't have any answers. So he abandoned his ministry and fled to the desert of Southern California, where he believed he could wait out the controversy before returning to PTL as its rightful leader. This is Episode 3, Holy War. It's March 27, 1987, in the mountains northwest of Palm Springs, California.

Jim Baker sits behind the wheel of his Mercedes-Benz, parked at a scenic turnout overlooking Big Bear Lake. It's a beautiful, sunny day, and the water below looks cool and calm. But Baker isn't interested in the view. His gaze is fixed on the car's cassette player, as is the gaze of the man sitting in the passenger seat next to him, Baker's head of security, Don Hardister.

They're listening to a recording of a sermon that Richard Dorch recently delivered to PTL's congregation, and it's not good. Instead of lifting people up with songs and praise, Dorch is rambling on about PTL's business affairs, including the lifetime partnerships and the hush money accusations. It's all embarrassing and uncomfortable, and there's nothing Baker can do about it.

For the last month, he's been living in a self-imposed exile, waiting until the world loses interest in the controversy around him. He's been the subject of headlines and punchlines all over the world. So Baker has been trying to remind himself this too shall pass, and he'll be able to return to his normal life when it does. When Dortch's long sermon finally ends, Artister leans forward and hits the eject button on the tape deck.

Well, that's it. What do you think? I think he made himself look good at my expense. Like I was the only one who said we should keep selling Lifetime Partnerships, or I was the only one okay paying Jessica Hahn. Well, I wasn't the only one. In fact, Richard was more involved in handling all of this than I ever was. Well, I don't know. I think he was trying to help. How could he possibly think any of this would be of help to me? Well, that's the message he asked me to pass along, sir.

He told me that with this sermon, he's opened the door for you to come back as wide as he can open it. I can't come back now, and Richard knows it. They're still making Jessica Hahn jokes on The Tonight Show. I know, but...

Can I be honest, sir? Please. I think you have to go back right away. Why? Well, Falwell, he held a board meeting just about a week ago. And from what Richard told me, I wouldn't be surprised if Jerry tries to kick him off the board at the next meeting. Kick Richard off the board? No, Falwell wouldn't dare. That would go against everything we agreed on.

I know, but Falwell's really unhappy with the finances and other stuff. Says everything's badly mismanaged and there could be legal trouble. Well, I'm not worried about any of that. God will see to it. He always does. And he will also tell me when I should return home. Well, I hope he tells you soon, sir, because the way I see it, if you're not back at PTL headquarters for the next board meeting, there may not be a home for you to return to.

Baker narrows his eyes and starts the car. And as he pulls onto the road and heads back toward Palm Springs, he thinks over everything Hardister just said. He knows Hardister has good reason to be concerned. And if anyone else were in this situation, Baker would probably be concerned for them too. But in his heart, Baker has always felt that he was guided by God. That guidance has never led him astray. So when the time is right to return to Heritage USA and retake PTL, God will let him know.

While Jim Baker does his best to lie low in California, the bad publicity surrounding him continues to mount. The Charlotte Observer uncovers more evidence of deception and financial impropriety among PTL's leadership. And then, in late 1987, a bombshell hits the press. A former PTL associate and minister named John Ankerberg appears on two national news programs and accuses Baker of homosexual activity.

Ankerberg offers no evidence to back up his accusations, but homosexuality is a grave offense in the evangelical community and the fallout is immediate. PTL's acting president, Jerry Falwell, finds himself even further into damage control mode. He tries desperately to distance himself from Baker and tells the press that it sounds like he's having some severe emotional problems. But there's one person who sees an upside to all this controversy. PTL's executive vice president, Richard Dortch.

Ever since Falwell took over at PTL, Dort has felt like his job is in jeopardy. As one of the people who approved Baker's astronomical bonus checks and irresponsible business practices, his continued presence is increasingly treated like another of the company's many problems.

But with this latest accusation against Baker, Dortch starts to wonder if all the controversy is becoming too much for Falwell, who's begun hinting to the press that in the very near future he's going to announce whether he plans to stay at PTL or not. So as the next board meeting approaches, Dortch feels hopeful that Falwell is going to use the occasion to announce his resignation. Because with Falwell gone, Baker will have a clear path to return. And Dortch's own position will once again be secure.

But Dortch's confidence is badly shaken on the morning of the board meeting, when yet another major story breaks, and this time it's about him. Dortch has always denied involvement in the attempted cover-up of Jessica Hahn's allegations of sexual assault. But on April 28th, the Charlotte Observer reveals that it was Dortch himself who orchestrated the $265,000 hush money payment.

So when Dortch arrives at the PTL board meeting, he expects Falwell to grill him about it. So he begins to plan how to talk his way out of any blame for it. His reputation and future employment at PTL depend on it. But when Dortch sits down at the conference room table, he realizes he's seated across from PTL lawyer Roy Grutman, who recently counseled Baker during his resignation. Grutman isn't on the PTL's board, so Dortch isn't sure why he's here this morning.

Then Falwell calls the meeting to order. He immediately turns to Dorch with his arms crossed and his eyes narrowed. The other six board members, all appointed by Falwell, look just as grim. Then Falwell asks Dorch if he has anything he'd like to say. Dorch shrugs. Falwell clarifies that he thought Dorch might want to take this opportunity to ask forgiveness for trying to use PTL money to cover up the stench of Baker's sin.

Dortch says that he knows where Falwell is going with this, and before they continue, he wants the board to know there's no truth to the claim in the recent Charlotte Observer article. He did not arrange a hush money payment for Hahn. He did, on occasion, speak to Hahn, but only because she seemed like a young, confused woman in distress, and he was encouraging her to get help.

Falwell just shakes his head and then says he'd hoped they'd be able to do this the easy way. Then he gestures toward Grutman, still sitting directly across from Dortch. Grutman opens a tan file folder in front of him, pulls out a document and holds it up for Dortch to see. It's a copy of an invoice for the $265,000 that was paid to Hahn. It says the money was requested per Richard Dortch.

Dortch stutters. He tries to explain that this is all a big misunderstanding. Yes, he oversaw the Hahn payment, but he didn't do anything wrong. He was trying to protect PTL. He thought the money would help Hahn get on the right track in life, even though Baker was innocent of the accusation she made against him.

Falwell quietly says he's heard enough. The damage Dorch and Baker have done to the PTL might be irreversible, but someone has to try and fix it, and that's why Falwell has decided to remain at PTL as president permanently. Falwell declares that Baker must never be allowed to return, and that Dorch should now take the opportunity to resign. Dorch feels like a trap door just opened beneath his seat.

Sweat beads on his forehead. He reiterates that he did nothing wrong and he will not resign. Falwell just shakes his head and says if that's the case, it's time for another vote. They will now go around the table and each board member will state if he would like Dorch to remain on the board or be expelled from it. Dorch wipes his brow, shuts his eyes, and begins to pray. Later that day in Palm Springs, Jim Baker is standing in the living room of a home that belongs to two of his loyal supporters.

He came here because he didn't know where else to go. Tammy was at home, and he didn't want to be alone. But now that he's here, his friends are asking what's going on, and Baker can't bring himself to speak. He stares blankly out a window, catatonic with grief as he mentally replays the news broadcast he watched just 30 minutes ago.

There on the TV screen, a reporter said there was a major breaking story out of South Carolina. PTL's board of directors have fired Richard Dortch, and acting president Jerry Falwell has announced he's staying with the company as its permanent president and has already made a declaration. Jim Baker will never be allowed to return. Staring out the window of his followers' home, Jim Baker's knees begin to wobble. He starts to sink to the floor, but then a firm grip on his elbow keeps him upright.

Baker turns and sees that his security chief, Don Hardister, has his arm. Hardister leads Baker over to the living room couch, helps him sit down, and then gently pats his shoulder. He says that Baker doesn't have to be strong anymore. Baker nods before bursting into tears. Hardister explains the situation to their hosts. One of them walks over to a nearby stereo system and presses a button on the tape player, telling Baker that this might help him feel better.

The living room is suddenly filled with the sound of Tammy Faye Baker's singing voice. Jim realizes he's listening to a song from one of their albums called The Sun Will Shine Again, but Baker only sobs harder as his supporters sing along to the music and Hardester tells him that everything will be okay.

Baker is crying too hard to answer. But if he could, he'd tell Hardister that he doesn't agree. That he's fallen hard. He's flat on his back. In a coffin that's being lowered into the earth. And if Jim Baker doesn't do something soon, he's going to be buried alive.

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Throughout the spring of 1987, Jerry Falwell continues his public campaign against Jim Baker. He leads reporters on a tour of Baker's ostentatious presidential suite inside the Heritage Grand Hotel and releases a highly unfavorable audit of PTL executive salaries and expense accounts under Baker's management. And in late May, Falwell shows reporters a list written by the Bakers outlining their exorbitant severance package requests.

Among other things, this wish list includes maid and phone service for a year and an annual $300 lifetime salary for Jim. Holding up this list during a televised news conference, Falwell says, "'I don't see any repentance here. I see the avarice that brought them down.'" Jim Baker knows he's losing the public relations battle. He's been defrocked by the Assemblies of God Church, and without PTL, he has no platform to respond to Falwell's attacks.

So when Nightline host Ted Koppel invites the Bakers onto the show for a televised interview, they jump at the opportunity to tell their side of the story. The interview is set to be conducted remotely, with Koppel in his studio in Washington and the Bakers at home in Palm Springs. And on May 27, 1987, the Bakers welcome a TV crew into their house before settling on the couch to await Koppel's questions.

After a brief introduction, Koppel begins his interview. He says he's curious to know why the Bakers agreed to appear on Nightline after weeks of public silence. Jim nods and then explains that he and Tammy have been quiet recently because they've been so devastated by what they've been going through. Jim then reaches for a Bible and reads a passage from Psalms about how his enemies are plotting to kill him, but that God will protect him.

"Come and protect me, put an end to their arrogance, those who gloat when I am cast down." And it's important, I believe, to wait upon the Lord. The Bible says that they wait upon the Lord will renew their strength. But Koppel isn't buying it. Is it going to be possible to get through an interview with both of you without you wrapping yourselves in the Bible? Tammy attempts to respond. Well, the Bible is a protection. It's a very real protection.

It's a comfort. That's, I think, the biggest reason we wrap ourselves in the Bible. It's so comforting. Jim smiles at Tammy. Despite Koppel's tough demeanor, he feels like this interview is going well. Because finally, he and Tammy are getting a chance to show the entire world that they will get through their troubles by presenting a united front backed by the Lord.

As Koppel continues his questioning, Jim deflects blame for PTL's missteps. He admits that he should have taken a lower salary, but didn't because his board of directors always approved a much higher one. He also accuses Jerry Falwell of bearing false witness against him and says Falwell executed a hostile takeover of PTL.

Pressing Jim once again, Ted Koppel notes that Falwell has echoed allegations that had already been made public regarding Jim's sexual orientation and conduct with Jessica Hahn. But Koppel points out that Jim could sue Falwell and win if the accusations truly are as false as Jim claims they are.

Both bakers smile and shake their heads. Jim apologizes for evoking the Bible once again, but replies that according to Scripture, one is not to return evil for evil. Yes, Falwell is wrong, but there will be no lawsuit. For the remainder of the interview, Jim continues to deny all wrongdoing, quoting Scripture to support his arguments. And after about 30 more minutes, Koppel wraps up the interview.

As Jim unclips his microphone, he feels certain that he and his wife have just secured a major public relations victory. And the next day, Jim Baker finds out that his instincts were correct. More than 20 million people watched his and Tammy's appearance on Nightline, making it the show's highest-rated episode ever. And the initial response seems to be mostly positive.

But the good publicity doesn't last. Over the next year and a half, Jim and Tammy Faye continue to weather a series of public humiliations and legal challenges. And then, in December 1988, both Jim Baker and Richard Dortch are indicted by a federal grand jury in North Carolina.

Baker faces charges of mail fraud, wire fraud, and conspiring to defraud the public through the sale of PTL's Lifetime Partnerships. His trial is scheduled to begin in August 1989, and if convicted, he could be facing up to 120 years in prison and $6 million in fines. But as Jim prepares to go to court, it seems to Tammy that her husband isn't taking the situation as seriously as he should.

The couple has recently relocated to Florida, where they've been working hard to build themselves back up, starting with reestablishing themselves on the airwaves. But Tammy knows that if Jim goes to prison, all of that work could go away in an instant. And yet, when Jim's lawyer, Harold Bender, comes over to discuss legal strategy, Jim just seems to sit there like he's already given up.

During these meetings, Tammy usually tries to keep herself busy while staying within earshot. But one afternoon in the spring of 1989, Tammy loses her patience. That day, she's standing in the kitchen, unpacking a box of teacups, when she hears Bender telling Jim what they're up against.

Bender says that back in Charlotte, where the trial will be held, people are not too fond of the Bakers right now. Years of negative reporting by the Charlotte Observer have had a tangible impact on public sentiment. Bender wants the trial moved, but it doesn't look like the federal government will allow it. Tammy briefly turns to look into the living room, where she sees Bender standing in a crisp suit. Jim, on the other hand, is curled into a fetal position on the couch, wearing a stained t-shirt and gray sweatpants.

Tammy quickly turns away. She can't bear the sight. And then she hears Bender say that there's more bad news. A famously tough judge named Robert Potter will be presiding. People call him Maximum Bob because he's known for handing down sentences one and a half times longer than the national average.

Bender says he knows Jim doesn't want to plead guilty to anything, but it might be wise of him to admit some wrongdoing before the case goes to trial. Doing so would enable Jim to cut a deal with federal prosecutors, which could result in a greatly reduced prison sentence. Hearing all this, Tammy understands what Bender's getting at. He's asking if Jim would be willing to take a plea deal, but Jim just doesn't respond.

Tammy turns around again and sees that Jim hasn't even moved. He's still just lying there, blinking as he stares off into the distance. Tammy's hands curl into fists. She feels her face getting hot as she thinks about the fact that it's Jim who got them into this miserable situation and now he's doing nothing to get them out of it.

Suddenly, though, Jim lifts his head toward Tammy. But rather than make a decision, or ask questions, or do anything constructive, Jim just asks if Tammy heard everything Bender said. Tammy's eye twitches. Her throat feels tight. She heard it all, and she's reached her limit. Not just with Jim, but with Bender, too. Every time he comes here, he brings more bad news.

Something inside Tammy snaps. She thrusts her hand into the nearest box, pulls out a porcelain teacup, and hurls it into the living room. It streaks through the air like a fastball before shattering on the wall behind Bender's head, who stares at Tammy in shock. But all Jim does is sigh and then lays his head back down on the couch. Tammy turns back to the sink and starts furiously scrubbing dishes, one after the other, as she wonders how much longer this marriage can last.

As Jim Baker's trial date rapidly approaches, he and Tammy Faye watch anxiously as his former colleagues and friends try and fail to exonerate themselves. First, Baker's former assistant, David Taggart, is convicted of tax evasion and sentenced to 18 years in prison. Then his former right-hand man, Richard Dortch, pleads guilty to wire fraud and mail fraud. He's sentenced to eight years in prison and $200,000 in fines.

So when Baker's trial begins on August 28th, 1989, his legal team knows they're facing an uphill battle. The evidence against Baker is strong, and the prosecution's witnesses are compelling. So as the days tick by, defense attorney Harold Bender feels like Baker's odds of acquittal are getting smaller and smaller. But Bender is still determined to give his client a fighting chance. So when the prosecution calls a witness with skeletons in his closet, Bender decides to hit him hard.

The witness is PTL's former telethon coordinator and VP of World Outreach, Steve Nelson. During direct examination, Nelson testifies that he first discovered that Lifetime Partnerships were being oversold in October 1985, and that when he tried to alert Baker, Baker dismissed him and continued to hawk the partnerships during the telethon. It's all very compelling testimony. But when the prosecution yields and it's time for cross-examination, Bender readies himself to undermine every word of it,

He pushes his chair back forcefully and approaches the witness stand with a scowl. Well, Mr. Nelson, you've said a lot today about Mr. Baker's alleged crimes, but let's be honest. You never liked Mr. Baker very much in the first place, did you? And that's the real reason you're testifying against him today. No, that's not true. You don't have any personal problems with Jim Baker? None at all? I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at. Well, allow me to clarify.

I've spoken to some people about you over the past several weeks. I was told that at one point, while at PTL, you described some of the Heritage Village church services as stupid. Is that true? Well, yes, I did say that once, but the context there... Moving on, is it true that you once called Norm Baker, Jim's brother, the, quote, assistant to the village idiot? Um, you're a religious man, sir. Do not forget you sworn on the Bible to tell the truth. Nelson tugs at his collar.

Okay, I said it. I probably shouldn't have. And did you once swear under oath that you received a $10,000 bonus from PTL when in fact the actual amount was closer to twice that? I'm having trouble remembering. Maybe you'll remember this. You also accepted a $30,000 loan that Richard Dortch told you you'd never have to pay back because it would just be converted into another bonus. And Mr. Nelson, if you can't remember, we have receipts that might jog your memory.

Nelson coughs and Bender stifles a grin. He can tell that this cross-examination is chipping away at Nelson's credibility. Bender steals a glance at the jury to gauge their reaction. And as he does, several jurors start to lean forward, their eyes wide. Then one juror points at the witness stand. Bender whips back toward Nelson and is shocked to see him clutching his chest, his face turning a muddy yellow color. It looks like he's having a heart attack.

Judge Robert Potter slams his gavel as Nelson slumps over in his seat. One of the jurors, a nurse, rushes forward to offer medical assistance. The courtroom erupts into chaos. Bender takes a step back, his hand over his mouth. He wonders if Nelson went into cardiac arrest because Bender questioned him too harshly.

The bailiff pulls Nelson from the witness stand and lays him on his back on the floor of the courtroom. And among the swarm of people who rush to Nelson's side, one voice rises above all the others. It's Jim Baker, and he's praying to God to save Steve Nelson's life.

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Stop wasting money on things you don't use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to rocketmoney.com slash wondery. That's rocketmoney.com slash wondery. rocketmoney.com slash wondery. In the late summer of 1989, the trial of Jim Baker captures the nation's attention, especially when a key witness for the prosecution, former PTL executive Steve Nelson, collapses in the courtroom from an apparent heart attack.

To the relief of all, it turns out that Nelson was suffering from flu-related dehydration, not a heart attack. Nelson survives, but the incident pushes Jim Baker over the edge. He suffers a mental breakdown. That night in lawyer Harold Bender's office, Baker attempts to hide under the couch, claiming that gigantic bugs are attacking him.

The next morning, August 31st, 1989, Bender goes to court and describes Baker's state, but Judge Robert Potter is unsympathetic. He rules that if Baker needs help, he can go to the psychiatric hospital within North Carolina's Butner Federal Prison. So federal marshals take Baker there, where a prison psychiatrist determines that Baker is not going crazy, he's just having a panic attack. And after a week in custody, Baker is released to resume trial.

And as it nears its conclusion, it becomes clear that Baker will need to testify in his own defense if there's any chance of him winning an acquittal. So on September 29th, 1989, Jim Baker takes the stand. He testifies that he never misled anyone about the availability of Lifetime Partnerships. He claims that if he had not resigned and all the lodging he planned had been built, there would now be over 200,000 rooms or campsites available, more than enough for everyone who made Lifetime Partnership donations.

Finally, the defense concludes their questioning and yields the witness to federal prosecutor Deborah Smith. She approaches the witness stand.

Good morning, Mr. Baker. Good morning, Ms. Smith. Let's talk about the Heritage Grand Hotel. Ah, yes, the Heritage Grand. I am very proud of that facility. I'm far from a draftsman, but I sensed in my heart what God wanted that hotel to be. I remember I would draw up rough drafts of designs and then hand those to my architects, telling them to work with what God had already put there in nature. That's very nice, Mr. Baker. But do you also remember lying to your supporters about the Heritage Grand?

PTL took out a $10 million loan to complete it, but you publicly stated that the grant had been constructed debt-free. Yes, and I absolutely believe that. Okay, but you are familiar with the definition of the word debt? Of course. Let's move to something else then. During this trial, several former PTL employees have testified that you ordered them not to audit any invoices for construction work at Heritage USA. Why would you do something like that?

Don't believe I did. I always kept everything open at the ministry. You weren't trying to hide the fact that PTL's expenses were outpacing its income? No, there was nothing to hide because that's not true. Our expenses never exceeded our income. Mr. Baker, please. During this trial, we have displayed memos and statements that directly contradict what you just said. Oh, well, you see, I had to speak faith because that's what I am.

a minister of the gospel. When we don't have something, we say by faith, God is going to supply that which we need. That's what you tell the people who send you money, even when it conflicts with the truth of their financial reality?

Baker scratches his head but doesn't respond. Mr. Baker, in 1984, as PTL continued to accrue debt, did you accept a bonus of $390,000? I don't remember. Do you recall that in 1986, you ordered that a loan made to your assistant, David Taggart, in the amount of $75,000, be converted to a bonus?

I don't remember that either. You know, so many of these figures you bring up, I'm hearing for the first time during this trial. And what about when you exceeded an initial limit of 25,000 lifetime partnerships, but concealed that fact from potential donors? No, I'm pretty sure I told them. Can you give me a date when you told them? No, there's so many episodes at the PTL Club, I couldn't. Honestly, I don't know what day I did anything. No further questions. Thank you, Dr. Gattman.

Attorney Deborah Smith walks slowly back to the prosecution table, and the judge calls for a recess. Baker then leaves the witness stand. He glances over at the jurors and sees one of them rolling her eyes, another shaking his head. As Baker approaches the defense table, his lawyers avoid making eye contact. Baker sighs. It appears that some were unimpressed by his performance today.

And that's unfortunate. But Baker isn't concerned. The only one he truly needs to impress is the Almighty. And Baker is certain that God will ensure that he is acquitted. A few days later, on October 5th, 1989, Jim Baker is found guilty on all 23 counts of wire fraud and mail fraud, plus one count of conspiracy.

Baker is stunned, but his fate is yet to be determined. Sentencing is to take place later that month on October 24th, and on that day, Baker returns to court accompanied by his lawyers and his 19-year-old daughter, Tammy Sue. Tammy Faye has stayed in Florida to manage her emotional strain and maintain the new ministry that the Bakers have established there.

So as Jim Baker and his daughter enter the courtroom, he thinks back to when he first set foot in Charlotte's federal courthouse. That day, he told reporters his faith was in God. And that's still true even now, because in many ways, his upcoming sentencing is more significant than the verdict itself. In Baker's opinion, God is now in a position to perform an even greater miracle than before by influencing Judge Robert Potter to deliver a light sentence, despite his reputation as Maximum Bob.

Baker tells himself he can handle a short amount of prison time if necessary. Then he'll return home, and with Tammy Faye by his side, they'll build their new ministry into something bigger and more successful than PTL ever was. But first, he needs to get the lenient sentence he's prayed for. Baker sits up straight as Judge Potter announces that court is in session. Potter orders Baker to rise. He does, along with his legal team.

Then Baker takes a deep breath, trying to stay confident as Judge Potter says he will now read Baker's sentence. Speaking quickly, Potter lists the counts against Baker. He lists them in batches, and after each batch, he says, "I sentence you to five years." He says it so many times that Baker loses count. And when Potter finally stops speaking, a chorus of voices rises from the spectator gallery. Baker turns to his lawyer Harold Bender and asks, "What just happened?"

Bender's voice is flat as he explains that Judge Potter has sentenced Baker to 45 years in federal prison. But before Baker can truly process this, Judge Potter bangs his gavel and says he's not done. He says that the sentence is merited because Jim Baker gave no thought to his victims. Potter is a devout Catholic and also expresses frustration that money-grubbing preachers like Baker make their followers look like saps. Then he orders Baker to report to prison immediately.

Baker hears a shriek behind him and turns to see his daughter sobbing as she's hugged by other family members. Bender looks at the floor and says he's sorry. Then he steps aside, allowing the federal marshals to handcuff Baker and take him away. As he leaves the courtroom, Baker slowly lifts his head and stares into the blinding white fluorescent lights in the ceiling. He wants to look past them into the sky above and ask why God has forsaken him.

Jim Baker began serving his 45-year sentence in October 1989. But just after a year and a half, an appeals court voided the sentence, ruling that Judge Robert Potter's statement referring to money-grubbing preachers reflected a personal bias against Baker. Baker's sentence was reduced to eight years. He ended up serving less than five and was released in July 1994.

Former PTL Executive Vice President Richard Dorch began serving an eight-year prison sentence in 1990, but after he cooperated with prosecutors, his sentence was reduced to two and a half years. Dorch was released in 1991 and died in 2011.

After going public with her allegations against Jim Baker in 1987, Jessica Hahn became a minor celebrity. She posed for Playboy multiple times and became a frequent guest on The Howard Stern Show. In 2017, at age 58, Hahn participated in a new interview with The Charlotte Observer, in which she reflected on her past, stating that some of her choices turned her into a, quote, cartoon character.

Tammy Faye Baker divorced Jim in 1992 while he was still in prison. The next year, she married Roe Messner, the PTL building contractor who fronted Han's hush money payment. In a letter explaining her decision to leave Jim, Tammy wrote, "...for years I have been pretending that everything is all right, when in fact I hurt all the time. I cannot pretend anymore."

Tammy Faye Messner went on to flourish in the entertainment industry. In the mid-1990s, she co-hosted a successful talk show with Jim J. Bullock, an openly gay actor. Tammy had long been celebrated in the gay community for being one of the first famous people to openly support gay men in the early years of the AIDS epidemic.

Tammy continued to co-host her talk show with Bullock until March 1996, when she was diagnosed with colon cancer. She died in 2007 at the age of 65. When asked how she wanted to be remembered, Tammy replied, "'My eyelashes' and "'My walk with the Lord.'"

Jerry Falwell and his associates left PTL in 1987 after filing for bankruptcy. At a press conference explaining the decision, Falwell publicly described Baker and PTL as probably the greatest scab and cancer on the face of Christianity in 2,000 years of church history. After being released from prison in 1994, Jim Baker remarried in 1998, then returned to televangelism, but with a new religious philosophy.

Around this time, Baker wrote, "...the era of prosperity is over. Perilous times are upon us. The end of the age is at hand." Baker established this new ministry in Missouri and called it Morningside. Its headquarters resembled a smaller Heritage USA, complete with a TV studio, spa, general store, and movie theater. There, Baker sells survival gear and freeze-dried food, reminding followers that all must prepare for the coming apocalypse.

But his new ministry has had its own legal troubles. In 2021, Baker agreed to pay more than $150,000 for falsely claiming that a solution he sold could cure COVID-19. Now 84 years old, Baker continues to broadcast from Morningside. And during one of his episodes, he proclaimed the PTL Club was lost, but now it's found. From Wondery, this is Episode 3 of Jim and Tammy Faye Baker for American Scandal.

In our next episode, I speak to journalist Charles Shepard about his extensive reporting on Jim Baker and PTL, including his book, Forgiven.

Wondery Plus subscribers can binge American Scandal early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. If you enjoy American Scandal, be sure to give us a five-star rating and leave a review. I read every one of them. I also have two other Wondery podcasts you might like, American History Tellers and Business Movers. Follow American Scandal on the Wondery app, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. You

You can binge all episodes of American Scandal early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. And before you go, tell us about yourself by completing a short survey at wondery.com slash survey. And to find out more about me, including my other podcasts, go to notthatlindseygram.com. That's notthatlindseygram.com.

If you'd like to learn more about Jim and Tammy Faye Baker, we recommend Shepard's book, Forgiven, plus PTL by John Wigger and I Was Wrong by Jim Baker. This episode contains reenactments and dramatized details. And while in most cases we can't know exactly what was said, all our dramatizations are based on historical research.

American Scandal is hosted, edited, and executive produced by me, Lindsey Graham, for Airship. Audio editing by Trishan Paraga. Sound design by Gabriel Gould. Music by Lindsey Graham. This episode is written by Hannibal Diaz. Edited by Emma Cortland. Fact-checking by Alyssa Jung-Perry. Produced by John Reed. Managing producer, Olivia Fonte. Senior producer, Andy Herman. Development by Stephanie Jens. Executive producers are Jenny Lauer-Beckman, Marshall Louis, and Erin O'Flaherty for Wondery.

It's 1978 in Miami, and the infamous Mutiny Club is the hottest spot in town and the epicenter of the cocaine trade. But behind the glamorous parties and opulent lifestyles, a violent drug war to own the booming industry is raging.

Business Wars is a podcast about the biggest rivalries of all time, and our new three-part series, Drug Cartels, dives into the war between the top two cartels in Colombia, combining the complex business acumen of a corporation with the calculated violence of the mafia.

The Cali and Medellin cartels ignited a ruthless fight to extinguish the other and dominate the growing cocaine trade in the U.S., which in 1984 was estimated to be over 70 tons of cocaine each year. Follow Business Wars on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Business Wars drug cartels exclusively and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus and binge the new TV series that inspired this season, Hotel Cocaine, right now only on MGM Plus.