Celts-Knicks, the Sleeper Lakers, and 12 NBA Stories to Watch With Ryen Russillo
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We are now a video podcast on Spotify. So, uh, you can watch it. You can listen to it, whatever you want to do. Uh, one thing to promote Celtic city, our nine part Celtics docu series that we did for HBO and max is going to be Sunday, March 3rd. The first episode, nine straight weeks in a row. Uh,

spent four years on this obviously meant a lot to me. And, uh, I think we did an awesome job. I can't wait for everybody to see it. I'm in Boston because we did the premiere on Friday night, had a bunch of people that I got to talk to Joe Mizzou about the town. So exciting. Joe Mizzou, I'm making him come on the podcast. He was a, he was a really fun Hank, but, uh, but we had a really fun premiere of episode five, which was about, um,

a part of the eighties with the Celtics. So, you know, that's in my wheelhouse, but, uh, very excited for everybody to watch it. And we'll be talking about it a bunch over the next, um, next few weeks. So I wanted to mention FanDuel because on Tuesday on FanDuel Sportsbook, uh,

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On Sunday this year, I think it's like year seven for us. Ryan, Marcello, we're going to talk basketball and basketball and more basketball. And we're just sprinkling some goofier stuff as well. He's next. First, our friends from Pearl Jam. All right. We're taping this 415 East Coast time because I'm in Boston. Just went to the Celtics next game. It's another emotional year for us, Marcello. Sundays with Marcello. We're back. We made it.

Another basketball season to talk about, complain about, break down. Plus, we have a whole bunch of other things too. We have the NFL drafts coming up. I'm sure you have some movie and music thoughts, maybe some Oscar thoughts, maybe some White Lotus thoughts. I never know what you're up to. How are you? I'm great. A lot of reading, a lot of history, beginning of civilization. If you have any questions, we'll get to them maybe after the basketball. I'm ready. You want to talk some James Polk? I don't know where you want to go.

No, I'm on this huge Susan Wise-Bauer kick. But again, I think we should table it. Okay, we'll save it for later. I just went to Celtics-Knicks. I have just a slew of thoughts. We're watching the game. I'm sitting with my dad. And I just think the Knicks are a bad matchup for the Celtics. And we're saying that the whole time. We're like, this team can't play with us. And the Celts get up to like in the mid-20s. It's like 24-26. And then the Knicks come roaring back. They come roaring back behind Brunson and Towns.

And we're watching like, should we be scared? We should be scared. And then now it's like, it's nine, it's seven, then it's six. But we slowly realized that Tibbs has just left his starters in basically the whole game. And that's one of the reasons they're hanging around. And my dad's freaking out. I'm like, no, there's no way. Towns isn't going to play like 46 minutes. Like we're fine. And then the Celts end up finishing him off. Here's where I'll start with you.

Does tips know that the regular season, especially in the East doesn't really matter and that you just want to be one of the first four seeds and that to put miles like the miles that he put on some of his guys today is insanity. I don't get it. I just don't understand it.

He doesn't care. I mean, I'm sure he understands it. In the brief time that I had access to him, we were at ESPN together. He's so smart about basketball. I think I left the room just going, do I know anything? You made you doubt yourself. Yeah, because I mean, I've told this story before, but we were watching a game together and then it was an inbounds. It was a simple inbounds play. And I just went, what?

And they ran through like seven different things that you could do defending this inbound. And I just was like, Jesus. And look, this is what everybody says about him. We know that he's brilliant. But yeah, he doesn't care. And I think when you looked at the earlier part of this week, because New York, we know the record against the top three teams, Boston, OKC,

Cleveland. They're 0-7 now, but they played in Chicago on Thursday and it was an overtime game. And here are the minutes. Precious 46, McHale 44, Cat 43, Brunson 38, McBride played 42, and then he played three other guys 17 minutes. So they

They go into that Cleveland game fresh off of that, where Cleveland, I think, was coming off a back-to-back. And you could see within that game, you're like, they're toast. Boston had the extra rest day. New York had the rest. So, you know, that third quarter was awesome because Brunson and Cat are awesome. But, like, I couldn't believe he put Cat back in after he left with the lip. After he twisted his ankle. They were down 18. It's like, do you want to get stuck with some Tatum isos? Yeah, with two minutes to go, let's do it.

Well, he had, we're looking up and I'm looking at the thing. I'm like, I don't feel like Towns has come out. My dad's like, no, no, he's come out. And then he played 33 of the first 36 minutes of the game. Right. So he just went all in on that third quarter with his starters, basically. And they were trying to hang around. And it was, but the Celtics were playing their bench guys too. And, you know, trying to keep their guys fresh for the fourth quarter. And then that fourth quarter started and you could see it at the game. You could see like Hart, who was, I thought really good.

He's like there any stoppage you could see his chest heaving and town started to slowly die because towns was awesome, but he ran out of gas and the Celtics knew it. They started targeting him and then towns finally twisted his ankle. But I just watched stuff like that. And I, I know we've talked about this tip stuff forever about how he doesn't care about the minutes, but I think it's really reckless. This team just needs to get to the playoffs with these five guys being able to play 40 minutes a game when we get to the playoffs.

They don't need to do it now. You look at the standings. It just doesn't matter after the top four and whether they're going to be two, three or four. I don't really feel like it matters. I think it matters for them to be healthy, you know, and any Knicks fan I know is like, well, just wait till we get Mitchell back. It's like, all right, so that's going to be your big X factor in the playoffs. This guy who barely ever plays, uh,

keeping your fingers crossed on him, keeping your fingers crossed on Towns and six-foot-one Brunson and Nananobi, who always gets hurt, to just be able to roll like this for 40 minutes a game. I think it's irresponsible. I don't get it. We've spent so many years, though, talking about guys not playing with effort. Effort, culture, all that stuff came up big time.

this past week with the four nations tournament, how great that was. And I spent some time talking about just like, look, the sports are a little bit different, but I think the NBA is a much better place than, you know, when you go back five years ago, I mean, it depends on which snapshot you want to take of like, man, these guys miss a lot of games. And again, a lot of that stuff was team mandates. So I don't know that any of it,

Like, I know that actually the answer to it, none of us loved it. So I do feel guilty with what I think is Tibbs approach that, you know, when you're on his team, like, this is what we do. Like, this is what we do. This is how hard we play. And this is, this is the approach. And it seems like the players don't mind. It's just funny when they do those player surveys. It's like, which coach would you least want to play for? Tibbs is almost always the answer because they see this stuff.

Well, and then Towns is somebody that I just think, and I thought he was really good in the first, in the second and third quarter. I thought he was really good. But he's also somebody I think you have to be a little careful with. He hasn't exactly been Cal Ripken Jr. over the years, you know? But when they got back in the game, Brunson got cooking, which he does from time to time.

And the Celtics, they did the same kind of the offense slowdown. But Towns, who had Tatum and a bunch of forwards guarding him, which is Celtics' strategy. And then Towns was like, I'm going to actually use my weight and I'm going to bulldoze into dudes. And, you know, the refs were letting him do it.

And all of a sudden he went from like zero points to 20 and about, I don't know, it felt like 20 minutes of real time, not even game time. So when you watch the Knicks, when you see them, when they're all playing well, and you see the five guys and they'll have these eight minute stretches where it makes sense. I just don't think with the way he plays the minutes in the bench, uh,

I don't really take them seriously as a championship contender, which is one of the things I want to talk to you about today. I think they're one level below. I really only think it's OKC and Denver and the Celtics and Cleveland right now. And I have room for a bunch of other people that these next 30 games can climb in. But I think the Knicks are a level below those four teams right now. You're right. And it's not just today. And I thought Boston came out with like a great, like just an awesome team.

approach, just pushing the ball in transition. You know, that's when they're starting five with those five guys playing and you're going, okay, this almost looks unfair. Like there's just, and Jalen Brown was awful. I know he has points. So bad. Yeah. You just couldn't understand like what his approach to the game was today. Even though if you just box score, you'd be like, what are you guys talking about? It got better. It was a really bad first half. It got a little better as the game went along, but it was not a great game for him.

So, you know, you're down 27. I mean, we could talk minutes because you're right about the minutes part of it, but to get it from 27 to four is exhausting. Yeah, right. On top of whatever Tibbs is doing in the sub pattern. And then Boston, you know, the only blemish on the entire like two-year resume of this team is that you'll go, are you guys shooting the other team into this game right now? Like what the hell is going on? And a lot of that happened in the third quarter. But like back to your original point,

Did you have an open mind before today about the Knicks being in that one line? Right. Okay. Because let's run through the resume. It's 0-7 now against the three teams.

in Boston, Cleveland, and OKC. And it's also not close. In those seven games, they're losing by an average of 20 points. And they're down big. Yeah, they're down big in every game at some point in the game. These are blowout games, and they've allowed 125 points per game against those three teams in those seven games. So the data tells... I really enjoy them. I think they're fun. I can't wait to see what happens with them in the playoffs. But

as great as cat has been you can see against big wings and what Tatum's looking for like Tatum had a couple like end of the first half he had two switches into cat where

where he drives right on, right? Yeah. And I think one worked, one didn't. They weren't, like, one was a really tough make, the other was a decent look. And then that play at the very end when he hits the three, he knew, like, Cat was like, I don't want to run up because this guy's, like, attacking the shit out of me. Yeah. Tatum comes off the screen knowing he's pulling up because Cat is so far away from him. And that's just what they're going to do. And you're right, like, maybe Mitchell Robinson helps. Of course, he'll help if he's healthy. But solving this...

seems like a massive ask of that guy. I think the Celtics are a very bad matchup for them. With all the guys they have to throw at Brunson, with all the ways they can attack towns, with the fact that their two wings are just better than the next two wings, and those guys are really good. And, you know, I thought Josh Hart was fantastic today.

And especially just watching, you know, there's stuff you can see on TV, but then in person, just the motor that he has. And now he's just trying to catch his breath every time the game stops. You can watch him. He's just like taking these big breaths because he knows he's got to like go like a rabbit again. But I think it's a bad matchup for them. And Cleveland weirdly is, I think, even though Cleveland's been great and they have 10 losses and they're playing after we tape this, I think Cleveland's a more realistic series for them than the Celtics are.

with the size the Celts have. Now, the question with the Celtics is, Porzingis we saw today, who's moving great. Are we getting that guy in April and May? Drew, they've been really kid gloves with the whole season. They just, Chad Finn of the Boston Globe was writing that he's on the DJ plan. I thought that was great. I'm going to steal it from him. He's just on that, yo man, just be there in April, May, June.

We don't care about right now. Feel free to just, just whatever. Pick your spots today. He gave a shit when he gives a shit and poor Zingas is healthy. This team is still, in my opinion, the best team in the league. I just don't know. Is that team going to be there in April? I met. We'll see.

They were so lucky with the injuries last year and then facing a Dallas team that wasn't going to be able to exploit some of the weaknesses to the point where they didn't even really need Porzingis. So the whole design of this Celtics team, the whole reason why you move the assets you do at the time and then remember the contractual obligation to Porzingis, because even if you liked him in that Washington season where he's pretty good, you're like, man, that is a leap. That's a leap of faith, but they had to do it to get him to opt out. So...

Look, when they're right, that first quarter, you're right. I don't know what it looked like in person, so I'll defer to you here. But that first quarter was just a nice little reminder. And they've been on a really good run here, by the way, too, after that weird 500 play stretch, which basically is going to happen to anybody in today's NBA. But that first quarter, I was like, man, is this nasty? And they just do a great job. And here's the most important stat. I'll ask it. What do you think the most important stat from today's box score was in this game? What was it? Rebounds? Brunson, zero free throw attempts.

Oh, because I had a Brunson thing for you. Something important happened today. There was a moment. My dad and I agreed. I think he's become the preeminent flopper in the NBA. I actually have to put him... The reviewed play or the inbounds when he was coming right to left? It's just a whole bunch of them. He's doing it on both ends. He's doing it on defense and offense. By the way, kudos to him because it's working. But I think Harden's getting a little older, right? Maybe his best flopping day is...

Probably 2018-19 range. Trae Young was there for a second, but I think some of the rule changes have gotten his head. Brunson's top of his game. He's flopping on picks. He's flopping coming off screens. He's flopping when somebody bumps into him on a drive. He's flopping for charges. I think he's the complete package. It was some of the best flopping I've seen.

He's all first team, no question. Yeah, maybe I'm premature. I mean, he's clearly in the running for MVP. Maybe I'm vaulting him up too high. But just what I saw today, I was in awe. He didn't even get any free throws, though. I mean, this is a low free throw attempt game. I think at the end of the third quarter, there were 16 total, or I think Cornette then took a couple. They were letting them play. Especially on the Towns drives, they were letting them play. Yeah, but see, Towns...

You know, it's it's amazing how productive. I don't know if there's anything in the NBA that I dislike more from start to finish that's more productive than his drives.

And I think they're better this year than they even were at Minnesota. Because like. Slinging them up. The Minnesota tries. What are you doing? And he's been so good. This is the perfect role for him. Because there's all these other guys. You can have a McHale game. You can have an OG game. You know, Hart can go off. Brunson's still going to be the focal point. All this stuff. He's a stretch five, which I think is almost mandatory if you're trying to be a title contender. But we know their defensive numbers are not good. We know what they are against those other top teams. And, you know, today wasn't really close, man.

It wasn't. Well, they also, it's weird with Bridges and OG. I texted during the game because one of my favorite Rizzolo jokes is though, was Tobias Harris out there? Oh no, he was out there for the last hour. Like I always think of you anytime I'm watching a game and I'm like, oh, it's Mikhail Bridges. I forgot he was playing. It's exciting. And then OG, but both of those guys had these really like quarter long stretches where they might inbounds the bottom. Like, oh yeah, Bridges, there he is.

They haven't figured out the same way the Celtics...

I think with White and Holiday who can, you know, take a backseat because you have Tatum has the ball a lot. They'll run the place for Porzingis. Jalen Brown will have his first five minutes of the second quarter as my dad's just bitching in the stands the entire time about the shots. And White and Holiday have figured out how to kind of sneak in and out and get little fast break layups or get like threes in the corner. And they're always involved. And what I saw today and what I've seen on TV too is there's just games where Bridges and OG just aren't involved.

Did it feel like it was anything that was happening to them? Because Brunson got off to a really slow start, and then those guys go nuts. I mean, what was it, 38 points in the third quarter? They were throwing everything at Brunson. They were really disciplined.

Because Brunson got coronet a couple times, and then I thought there was another time where it was like the same movement where they're going to get Brunson down the left side, and they brought Tatum over as like a third defender. They just were like, fine. So I thought there was these little moments in there that kind of back up what you're saying. So go ahead. Well, you know, I was ready to almost leave the pod with Tatum.

And then he had this really terrible stretch where I was like, this is still like the last hump for him because the first half of that game, his two way game. And you saw it in the Philly game too. And there's been a, and I feel like it's getting better as year ago, his passing. It feels like he's going to be between seven and 10 assists. Almost every game now when he's locked in his rebounding and,

And his Swiss army knife stuff that he does on D where he can guard basically everyone on the other team. I do feel like he's going up a level, but there's that still that last piece where it's like,

He never has like the awesome 48 minute. Oh my God, he blew my doors off game. It's like three quarters of the four. And I think that's the last level for him. If you want to be on that SGA Jokic level, you've got to do it for the whole two and a half hours. And right now he's at about an hour 45. Does that sound too nitpicky? No, no. My thing with Tatum is been pretty consistent that as much as I loved him and I think I appreciate him that,

there was never going to be a time where like that guy's the best player in the world. Like that seems like an impossible goal to accomplish. Would you agree with that? Are you hesitating? No, because sometimes when I watch him, when he's really going well, I feel like he's got all the pieces, but I don't, at this point, I think it would have happened. I think we would have had some sort of nudge, uh,

where we would have some crazy stretch, you know, that all the greatest players have had. Like what SGA just had. Where SGA was just like, I'm just going to score 50 points a bunch of times now. And my team's just going to win every game. And it's just, that's the last. So he's like a level below. And that, you know, all the MVP ballot stuff, the MVP is basically done. It's the top two guys. But I think Tatum's, I think he's been the third best guy in the league this year. I would be surprised.

I'd put him against Giannis. I would pick Tatum. I think he's had a bigger impact on a winning team. I know his team's been a little bit better, but he's... The durability thing is the piece with him that I just think he doesn't get credit for. He fucking plays. Yeah, he's... Look, this is the most I've ever appreciated him. Me too. His passing...

The way he beasts guys, like a team the other day, we were just kind of like bullshit because Goldsberry and I had done constructing our most complimentary starting five of today's players. Right. Yeah. And I just, I put Tatum on it because I felt like he provides so much. I mean, he's basically playing point guard at this size.

Right. And I don't know that that gets talked about a lot nationally. And guarding towns on the other end like that. There's nobody in the league doing that other than him, basically. Right. Which is what he did in the NBA finals. Now, granted, the game's different. So it's not like he's down in the post against Moses Malone for 40 post ups a game. But he was he was a center on defense.

And he's playing point guard and, you know, maybe somebody else brings the ball up, but then they bring it back to him and it's this decision making. And so, you know, maybe there's some output stuff that doesn't line up with the SGA's or the nights where Ant goes fucking crazy, you know, which is just so much fun to watch. Like Ant having one of those nights is probably still my favorite thing other than just a reminiscent Curry flamethrower game. Yeah. Honestly, I'm probably, I would tell you like the certain moments with Ant that I probably still like more than any other single player in the league. But yeah,

But Tatum just has more options around him. I still would say Boston at its peak has more options offensively than even Oklahoma City does. I don't know if there would be much of an argument there. So even though you're not getting that peak output that would maybe put him in the belt conversation, I am so happy with his approach.

that it's, I'll take this. His assist ratio on the advanced stuff has never been better. You know, a lot of the advanced metrics are like peak for him, but there's also, it's not just a counting thing. It's not even the metrics. There's just an eye test thing with him where how steady he is. Like he had a baseline drive on OG where he went right into him and moved him off the spot and got the free throws. And I'm like, how many other guys 20 plus feet away would have the balls to drive at OG and look like the stronger player? So, yeah,

I've never been more in love with his game than what I've seen this season. That's how I felt today watching it. I just feel like he's maximized a lot of stuff that he's been working on the last couple years. And if you took this version of Tatum and you put this version in the 22 finals, I think they'd beat the Warriors. And he wasn't even close...

to being able to do 40% of the stuff that he can do now. I love the rebounding. I don't think he gets enough credit for that. And I love the durability and the fact, you know, JJ said something about this because he was talking about the Lakers. This was even before the Dallas game when he was, you know, cause they're way better on defense, the Lakers. I think they're like third in defensive rate in the last 20 games. And, you know, they were even playing better before the trade. And somebody asked him what was different. And he's like, you know,

The NBA is about just playing hard, just making sure your team plays hard every night. And I think that's a skill that Tatum, where if he's taken off a quarter in Charlotte, you really notice it because of the level of intensity that he has game to game, quarter to quarter, half to half. When he doesn't have, you're like, oh shit, what's wrong with Tatum?

What, what's he doing? He's just jacking up shots. Why isn't he rebounding? Like, it's really like glaring. So anyway, I think he should get probably more credit for, for that. I don't know if there's an extra half step for him. Maybe we'll find out in the playoffs. You really think, you really think it's, well, I think you've already answered that it's kind of a closed case, but.

I mean, at any point, do you think, I mean, I guess he's got a couple years to go, but is he going to surpass SGA? I don't think it's ever going to be as easy. Like that, for the Jokic stuff, that Jokic night-to-night, it's just easy for him to create shots for everybody. The best possible shots, right? Last night's a bad example, but for the most part, SGA is just like, he's just getting the 35, right?

He's just getting to 40. It doesn't matter what you're doing. He's just going to get to where his points are. And I think Luca is in that category too. I don't know if Tatum's ever going to be at that level, but I think to me, he reminds me, it's a weird one. And I, and I know I'm thinking about it probably because we just finished this nine part Celtics docuseries, but to me, he's more like a Havlicek type. He's the Swiss army knife that does all these different things for your team. He's never the best score in the league. He's never the best assist guy, but he's,

He just, he's just additive. And I think that's the level that he's gotten to. So he probably reminds me of Havlicek the most, even though he's taller and, you know, he's got size, all that stuff, but just like they could play small ball center with them if they wanted. He could also play point guard for them if he wanted.

Um, the other thing with the Celts that I think Cornette has been playing really well and Pritchard's been up and down hazards coming back, but they're getting more of a bench than I think. And then Horford being able to only play like 18, 20 minutes, their benches is back. And I think I wouldn't be surprised that they went on a little run here over the next, uh, next three, four weeks. Cause they haven't really had a run this season.

You know, we're going to talk about that after the break. Some teams that we think might make an actual run. I wouldn't be surprised if they had a streak. Like, have you been, have you felt like they've had one kick-ass three-week stretch other than like you'd have to go back to November? I just don't remember it. Yeah, but I mean, aren't they, are they 12-3, 11-4 in the last 15? I mean, I know it was 12-4. Yeah, but I'm talking about like what the stuff they were doing last year where they were just like ripping people's heads off for three straight weeks.

Yeah, they're 10-2 in their last 12. Yeah. This kind of feels like it, other than the start of their night at 2. They also had that, I don't know, what is it, seven-game stretch there in November. So the weird thing was just a couple games against lesser opponents, a Toronto game. They could have lost a New Orleans game. And the standard for them is so much higher. But that first quarter was so impressive that...

You know, I was just a nice little reminder, I think, on a national stage for everybody of like, this is what this team is capable of. And I don't know that there's anybody else. Granted, you talk about the OKC defense, which I'm sure we'll get to a little bit later today. Might be the tiebreaker for a lot of different people. But those first 12 minutes were just awesome. Let's take a break. And I want to talk about teams that can make an actual run. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. State Farm helps you score an affordable price when you choose to bundle home and auto insurance.

with the personal price plan. And bundling home and auto, it's a pro move. Just another way you can save on your insurance needs. Talk to a State Farm agent today to learn how you can bundle and save with the personal price plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state. So I want to talk about intriguing subplots with 30 games left. And some of them are easy to figure out and some of them are a little harder to figure out. But the number one subplot to me, and I can't believe I'm even saying this and it makes me mad that we're in this position, but what can you do? I think the Lakers are the number one subplot to watch over the next 30 games.

The Denver game was so interesting last night to see like the real Luke in a Lakers game and to watch, you know, their centers, whatever. They're just double teaming Jokic. They're just going to be happy with Westbrook and those like whoever fine shoot 16 for 41 from three. We don't care. We got to take out Jokic.

But the thing that I really noticed that people talked about when they made the trade was just 48 minutes of Luca and LeBron or Luca or LeBron. But you always have somebody out there who just has this crazy IQ and is a really good offensive player. And I've never wavered from thinking Luca was going to be awesome on this team. I just thought it was scary last night. And if I'm in the West...

I think there's four teams that can win the title and we can talk about a couple of wild cards. I think the Lakers are an official wild card for me. I agree. And it's the defensive numbers. Like you mentioned it. If you go back the last 15, that's the number one defense in the league. They're 12 and three is the best record over the last 15. Do you understand that? What's your explanation for that? Other than just they're playing hard. Well, I think having...

Some of the pieces... I thought Rui played his ass off last night. Both. I mean, you can look at the points, but it was what he was doing defensively. Now, granted, Vando comes in and just hacks the shit out of Jokic, but it's like they're not going to call all of these, although they tried to call all of them on Vandervoort because he didn't play a ton of minutes. But...

You know, the Cam Reddish thing seems over. The Dalton Connect minutes are limited if you start looking at these things. So I think we gave Vincent being healthy with Vando being healthy with them liking this Rui center matchup stuff because they're basically forced to figure this out because the Jackson Hayes minutes usually aren't that great. Because the longer he's out there, the longer there's going to be something that happens. And specific to last night, Bill, I loved that game. Okay.

Me too. I thought it was really impressive. Because we look at the playoff and you go bracket wise, like how far can L.A. go? I say, well, they're going to run into Denver again. So that's not going to work. And last night's one result. But I thought this coaching staff showed the difference where it's always about the roster for me. But there are little times like Kenny Atkinson this year with Cleveland, like clearly there's something better with this, with his approach to basketball. I think JJ and the staff did such a fantastic job of last night's preparation.

The possessions, when you really looked at what they were doing, there's these non-spacing lineups that Denver runs out there outside of Jokic where the Lakers are like, if this is what you're going to run out, we are not going to pay attention to Aaron Gordon. We're not going to care about Westbrook. They had a play, and I'll finish here, but LeBron was on Jokic kind of in the paint, left side. Dalton is in the dunker spot, ignoring Aaron Gordon. He's basically under the rim. The other two wing players to the right

The Lakers defenders are in the paint. So that's four players in the paint against Jokic. The only one that was providing any spacing was Michael Porter Jr. at the top of the key, and Rui was defending him, but Rui was only a foot beyond the free throw line.

And you saw possession after possession where you could see the Lakers like specifically the way they prepped that game last night. I think that's a credit to JJ and the staff going, we've got to come up with something new that's Jokic specific. And it worked in, you know, really wasn't much of a game on top of all the Lucas stuff that I know you want to get to. Well, they did the same thing that that Celtics game that we both went to in L.A.

Where they kicked the Celtics ass. And part of it was they just were really well prepared. And they used a bunch of things against the Celtics that I had kind of been...

waiting for, you know, somebody to do. It's like, uh, Oh, you're going to try to force it to present. It's great. That's going to throw your whole team out of whack. Like keep, keep giving the ball and present. Guess I had a good first quarter. Nobody else did. And then it's like, Oh, here's the top of the second quarter. This is when Jalen tries to get his office for six minutes. We're going to make it really hard for him. And it was just, you were just watching it going, Oh, this team's got their shit together last night against Denver. Uh,

you would think, well, why doesn't everybody do that against Jokic? First of all, it's hard to do it. Second of all, it's hard to commit to it. And your guys have to be really disciplined with it. But they also have smart players. Like everyone makes fun of Luka's defense, but he's still a really smart basketball player, right? LeBron, I think has been noticeably better on defense for what, a month and a half now?

I don't know what the timeline is.

So are you in? Are they your fifth team? Are they the first team outside of your tier one playoffs? Like title contenders? I wrote down... You tiered us up? No, I wrote down things I like about them. And the number one thing is just always having Luka or LeBron out there. One of the two or both. I think it's just...

It's just really hard to play them. You don't have a moment like you had with the Knicks today where Brunson has to sit down. It's like, all right, it's campaign time. Cross your fingers. Like the Lakers just never have that. Campaign was nice though. That first shift. He was, he was, he made three in a row. That's probably the best thing ever for a Knicks opponent. Be like, Hey, don't forget like tight game. Second half campaign made three in a row in the first half. So that's good for us. He's going to think he can get to 20. Uh,

The fact that the defensive numbers are like if they were ninth or 11th, the Lakers, I'd be like, okay, that's a little fluky. There's probably some when you're in the top five, when you're in top three, like that's not fluky at some point. I think JJ is a legitimately good coach. And I thought what they did last night to Joker, who is terrible because they made him terrible. But then you just look at it. It's just that at some point it's math. Last night, LeBron and Luca had 59, 19 and 12.

If you're going to get numbers that look like that from your best two guys, you're going to be heard from, from a couple of playoff rounds. So if I was a Laker fan, I'd be excited, but this is why we all went. That's what the trade happened. This is fucking crazy. You don't just get to add the fourth best guy on your team in the league to your team. Just, you know, for Anthony Davis, Max Christie, who by the way has been playing great. Yeah, he has been good. I think some of the worst anti LeBron content that I've ever seen is

was Luca's stat lines, those first three games with LeBron. Like I get it. If you hate LeBron, you hate LeBron. But come up with better evidence than that. Because I went to Luca's first game, you know, that he had played in like two months. I went to Crypto that night to watch him play against Utah. And he was so tired, like four times up and down the court. I'm like, oh man, I'm like, he's so tired. Like he doesn't even, because it's

He hasn't been complaining because he's on a new team. We haven't seen him. And it was kind of funny. Obviously, last night's the best that he's looked with the Lakers. That first half was incredible. The way he was kind of getting into his shot. Basketball's funny, man. You can be this incredible player. Here we are talking about somebody who has a chance to be the best player in the world. And it's like, I'm new here, so I'm just trying to fit in for a little bit. And if you're a coach and it's Luka, you're like, don't be trying to fit in, dude. Just...

Do what you do and then we'll figure it out around you. And just because stats were bad and then they had the weird breaks, like all that stuff was so stupid. He was great last night. It was funny, too, because he he made a play and then he cycled out of the three point line was wide open and he didn't get the ball back. And it's the first time I've seen him pissed with the Lakers. And he put his hands up like you idiots. Like, what are you what are you doing? And I'm going, this is great.

This is this is like this. That's what you want out of this dude. You want to rest that he didn't get the ball back. So I'm I'm shocked the defensive numbers are that good. The last 15. It's been a big part of this turnaround. They finally beat Denver. So I'm not ready to say that they've solved Denver. You know, there's just going to be some spacing stuff in the playoffs where if it's Westbrook or if it's Brown and I think even Michael Porter Jr. is like a coin toss game.

Gordon is a matchup specific guy, but they're going to ignore him even though he's shooting like over 40% from three. They just did a great job of loading up on all this stuff. But look, man, you're closing group in a tight playoff game. If the three perimeter dudes are LeBron, Luca and Reeves, I have a hard time believing that defense is going to be just living on stops though in the playoffs, right? Yeah, they're probably trying to outscore. Yeah, the Luca dialogue was, I feel like a lot of the sports dialogue is just getting worse.

Because it's just this quick rush to whatever judgment. You know, he could have one bad game, his first Laker game, and everyone's like, oh my God, this is why the Mavs traded him. And it's, nobody thinks of the human element of, this guy thought he was going to be the next Dirk Nowitzki in Dallas. He had no idea the trade was coming.

They trade him. He's got to move to LA. He's got to figure out where he's going to live. He's taking shit about that. He's got a drinking problem and that he eats too much and they didn't want to give the max and they're just, you know, laying into him left and right leaking stuff to make them look bad. On top of that, he's got to figure out how he fits in with this new team. He's got to play with LeBron. Who's this guy he grew up watching, right? He's got to figure out how he fits in offense, new coaching staff. He's not in shape. It's like, Oh, you think this is going to go bad for like a week?

Yeah, and he hadn't played. He hadn't played in two months. He hadn't played basketball. Like Perkins, three days, Perkins tweeted three days ago. It's going to be another two, three weeks before we see the real Luka he is to get in basketball shape, get his legs under. And then last night he tweets, like I said, give Luka time. It's like, yeah, no kidding.

We got to give Luke a time. Sure. To adjust to his new team and get back in shape. I'm pretty sure he'll be able to figure this out. He's had one of the five best offensive starts that anybody in the history of the NBA in their first seven years. I think we're going to be okay with Luke Adonchich. I'm not worried, but people were worried. It's I don't know. Who was really like, who did you respect? That is what was worried. Well, that's, but some people have platforms who this is, this is kind of what you do. You just go nuts. Yeah.

Get mad. Luka Doncic was terrible. This is why the Mavericks traded him. I would say over 50% of your tweets are about LeBron or Jordan. You should just be banned from the platform. It's fair. We can talk to Elon about it.

So you've been hanging out with him much. I haven't talked to him. Lakers have the six best odds on Fandle right now. So it's not it's not a hot take to say, oh, I think they're a title contender. I think that's where they are. I think they're in that wildcard team. I went back and I looked at I think this this needs a name. I came up with post all star late bloomer, but I think we could do better. I don't know. That sounds great. Thanks. What is it?

Well, these teams that over the course of the last 30 games at some point got their shit together and became a real contender. So the reason I thought of this was because we watched it happen with Dallas last year. Dallas was 16 and four to finish the season. They were fifth net. They just remember they had a big winning streak. Then they had a losing streak and then they started winning again. And at some point,

It felt like there might be something there in a real way, right? 2023, it happened with the Lakers. They were 16 and seven down the stretch, fourth net. They ended up making the Western finals. 2022 is when the Celtics were they 25 and 25, then went on the run. Their last 22 games, there were 17 and five first in that. Weren't they below 500 too? Like it might've been maybe 24, 25. They made the finals. I threw out the two strike, not strike the COVID years.

And then in 2019, Portland finished the last 25, 19 and six fourth net. And they made the Western finals. So this does, there is a team, there's a track record of a team. We didn't think was in the top three or top four moves up there. And for me, it's either the Lakers or golden state. And we're taping this right now as a, as golden state's playing and they're beating up on Dallas, but those would be my two picks golden state or the Lakers. And I'd probably lean Lakers cause, cause of Luca and the talent. Who would you have?

It feels like the Knicks are on the Lakers line of this though, right? That's fair. But I don't think they, would you necessarily say they would be an out of nowhere team? I guess it could conceivably happen. I, I think they're more likely to have more injuries and weird shit happen than to go on a run, but maybe I'm wrong. Okay. But,

So here's something that I like about the Lakers, because I think this is always an important thing. And because I think guys play more often now, because this could get really misleading. Sometimes you're looking at like matchups against the better teams. You're like, OK, who was there? You know, like even when I go through those next seven games, it's basically everybody played in those games for the Knicks. I think OG missed one. Yeah.

You know, there's different times where you go head to head and you're looking at it, getting ready for the playoffs. Like, how do they do against each other? You're like, oh, these guys miss these games. But again, like I said, it's been a little bit better. The Lakers are one of three teams in the West with a winning record against teams 500 or better.

So clearly OKC is 20 and nine. The Rockets are 20 and 15 and the Lakers are 15 and 12. And I think that's important. Memphis is under 500. Denver's under 500. The Clippers are under 500. Minnesota's under 500. So again, like I said, only three teams, the rest of them are all under 500. I think for me on the Lakers part of it is we're totally aligned on the Luca thing. Like, give me a break. Like this guy at this age with his track record and because he hasn't played in two months,

So you're like if you were watching these early games going, what's wrong? So this is what you think it's going to be now. You just think this is going to be like, it's going to be a mess. You know how absurd that is. So it's we're not even at peak Luca. They're putting together this performance. They have this defensive profile the last month or so. But, you know, bracket it out for five. They're playing Houston. You're probably picking the Lakers because you trust their offense more than you trust Houston's offense. Right.

Okay. Then, then guess what's waiting for him on the other line. Sadly, I sadly, I did this and it, as you know, I hate the Lakers and this made me sad. Okay. But how serious by serious, I was like, Oh my God, they're going to fucking make the Western finals. So they're beating Oklahoma city in a one four matchup. You're crazy. Oh no. I'm just saying there's a scenario with these brackets where if they're not four or five, if they can somehow avoid, okay. See to the Western finals. Right. And then you think they're going to beat Oklahoma city.

Well, so they would have to get to two or three. Okay. All right. I think it's completely, completely reasonable right now. They're 34 and 21. Memphis is 37, 19 and Denver's 37 and 20. I think they have to leapfrog. I don't think they'd want to play. Okay. See, but I also wouldn't blindly pick. Okay. See, against the, against Luca LeBron either. Would you?

I mean, I would pick them to win, but I wouldn't be like, oh, lock it in, write it in marker that OKC is 100% winning. I'd be a little nervous. Well, I want to see more of the Chet stuff, but defensively, the Chet stuff has been really good. So, you know, it's not the same as the Luka thing, but I mean, we're looking at Chet missing three months and then trying to come back. He's not taking a ton of shots. Like, I can't wait to see what

that guy looks like and what this team looks like. So there's just, like, they still have a massive issue with certain matchup bigs. And normally I would say, what are you going to do against Jokic? Like, do you really think you're going to survive seven games against like having Rui was great last night, but let's not lose our minds about who this team is. I still have Denver and OKC in the Western finals. But I think if you start thinking about series by series, game by game, this Lakers team is scary, especially with the fact that they're actually well coached.

Right. And there's, they're a matchup team. I think they're a team that could win on the road in a game seven. Right. How many teams could actually go on the road and win a game seven? It's not the longest possible list. This is a team that would not be afraid to go on the road. I think the Vincent thing is important for them too, because that's a guy who they signed who's been banged up or sucked for a year and a half. And then people forgot that he wasn't good, that people forgot that he was actually good and valuable in Miami and was in big games for them.

And kind of knows where to go and what to do. He's one of those guys. And you need a guy like that on a weird team like this. And the fact that Reeves has gone up a level and JJ loves Reeves. I mean, the best thing JJ and LeBron have done have been just pump Reeves up, pump him up, make him really think he's this gifted offensive player. And I think he's playing with so much confidence now. How many teams have a third guy who's as good of an offensive player as Reeves is? It's not a long list.

It isn't a very long list. I mean, Pat Bev really went for it last night. I think he tweeted out they have the best one through four in the NBA. And I was like, who's the fourth? It was like Rui. I'm like, all right, going. I think you're forgetting about Boston and then OKC with Chet. I think there's a lot of guys that you could pick from there that would be in the conversation. But as far as like number three guys with with Reeves, I mean, is it is it Derek White? Is it I was thinking somebody on Cleveland.

Is it like Mobley? Mobley? It's just a completely different kind of player. Like I'd rather have Mobley than Reeves, but offensively, like initiating your own stuff, it's not even a conversation. Reeves is so good at it. Right. When you're talking about good offensive players, a good litmus test is that guy scored 45 last night. Are you surprised? Right. Like if Derek White scored 45, I'd be like, what?

Did he make like 12 threes? What happened? But Reeves had that game the other day when everybody was hurt. What did he have? Like 38, 40? No, he had 45. He was 45, 26. Right. I wasn't shocked.

Yeah, but the other starters are Dorian Finney-Smith, who, by the way, like we hadn't even mentioned yet for the defensive part of what they've done. Right. You know, getting getting D'Angelo Russell away from this basketball team. You know, I try to tell you guys, Lakers fans, I know I get it. You know, he makes a couple of threes and points and you guys are super into that. But getting him away from this group has also been a big challenge.

from who they are right now. I feel bad we didn't even mention Dorian Finney-Smith at this point. I mean, he made one shot last night and he was a plus 20. That trade made me mad. Why? Because you liked Daniel Russell so much? No, because I wanted the Lakers to not be good. I said, fuck, they got Finney-Smith? Finney-Smith's good. He's an additive player. There were some guys around the trade deadline that I was wondering. I still can't believe the Lakers didn't go after Nick Claxton.

Was he available? I don't know what, what are the nets doing? I mean, playing their ass off. I know, but they traded to get their picks back for some tanking plan. And then they just can't stop beating teams.

I know. I just don't think Philly was ready for the Keon Johnson Watford two-man game to close. They had no scouting report on that. Watford was like, I gotta get this video to the scouts. I tried to turn that game off like four different times last night. Yeah, you couldn't. I hate watching the Sixers play basketball. Yeah. They are disgusting. Okay.

Okay. I can't, but I can't turn it off. And then I was like, that's close. And I'm like, look at Brooklyn. Look at this team. No, they can't stop. It's now they're ahead of them. They're ahead of them in the standings in the East. They flipped it. In that Philly game, they had a couple of moments where they blew the lead and were like, all right, value and effort. Exactly. Somebody else would hit a three. And then all of a sudden they'd be winning again. Whatever Philly is doing to Embiid is one of the weirdest subplots of not just the year, but the decade. I have no idea why he's playing.

And he looks miserable. He's falling down, I think, twice as much as he's ever fallen down. Looks like he's legitimately hurt. What's his F per 100? Do you know? I think this is the highest the last couple weeks. He's just... He had that play when he ran in to contest a play in the corner and just kind of went into the third row. He couldn't stop. It's pretty brutal. So the case for Golden State, really quick, to be the late bloomer, is just the combo of...

Jimmy, I don't know what it is about Steph. It would be the greatest feature somebody wrote, but it just seems like everybody that passes through Steph's life, they turn into Gandhi for like the first three weeks. Like the way they talk about him, it's just like this religious experience to be Steph's teammate.

And Jimmy is like, so happy. Like there was that clip of him diagramming plays in the huddle. This is a guy who was just sitting next to the water cooler the last three months of the Miami season. And now he's like, Draymond, come here. I have an idea for a high screen. And he's just so invigorated. And I think they're legitimately dangerous looking at their schedule. And they're beating Dallas today as we're taping, but they got Charlotte. Orlando's a mess at Philly.

Great at Charlotte, at Knicks, at Nets. And then they have a seven game homestand against Detroit, Portland, Sacramento, Knicks, Denver, Milwaukee, Toronto. Like it's a team that could go on like a 12 to two run and I wouldn't be surprised. So that that would be the other one I'm kind of looking at. I guess the thing that the thing to watch is whether Curry can go up a level again or not, because we haven't seen it this year from him. His life looks a lot easier having somebody like Jimmy Butler out. That's the thing.

And the shooting numbers would back it up. The three point shooting would back it up. Even watching the beginning of today's game, even though it wasn't just super aggressive, like having Butler just be somebody else that people are worried about. And of course, they ran some other play where it's like Curry's the lead block on the cut. So everybody freaks out and then Butler kind of slips a screen and then he's the second cutter behind it and he's wide open.

In a way that, you know, he's probably like, this must be, I just can't imagine playing basketball for a living and then getting the chance. Like, no wonder everybody's in a good mood. They're like, this is what happens. Like when he moves, all of this other shit happens. And then now my life is like this much easier. Although I do have to point out on a couple of broadcasts, like our memories can't be this short.

Like Butler has a nice game. He's super aggressive. I mean, he was taking 10 shots a game for Miami. It was the lowest field goal. Not going to foul line at all. Yeah, no, he was actually still was like not he's he's one of the most like

hyper free throw rate guys in the league because he pump fakes at the rim and guys just go for it all the time. So like if you played him in a series, you go, you guys are going to stay down against him. Now he's shooting a million free throws, but he's just more aggressive. Now you can tell he's taking 13 shots a game. Again, the shot count goes down because he's taking so many free throws. Right. But he, for all the stuff that he talked about in Miami, like they took my joy from me. Like he broke up with a quarterback. You're just going like,

We just saw this guy destroy his value around the league and he makes a couple cuts and hits some free throws and it's like, man, Golden State, like, you know, everybody's, Golden State's probably still scared to death of like what the long-term thing could be here. But in the short term,

And it's awesome to see, you know, some of these possessions late in games where you could just see Steph being like, I'm running around. I get the ball. I'm trapped. I throw it to somebody else. And I don't even want to take some of these shots. And then you have people being like, oh, his shooting is dipping. It's like, well, no shit. So I think his life is going to be a lot easier now. I still don't even think they're in the Lakers class, though. Do you have them in the Lakers class? I don't know. I want to watch it for a couple of weeks. Yeah.

Like Butler, he's averaging almost 10 free throws a game for Golden State. As we're taping this, they're beating Dallas by 20 and he's already six for six. He's plus 24 in the game. But watching the way he's playing with these guys, it's weird. It reminded me of when Moss got to the 07 Pats and was just like so delighted to be in a real offense with Brady. And he was just like,

skipping around, right? And just so happy and had so much space and knew that if he was going to do whatever, the ball was going to be there. And Butler watching the space that he has, but also the connection he has with Draymond, I wasn't prepared for. I wish we were watching the game right now. But the high IQ thing he has with Draymond, I think has been fun to watch where he's posting up and Draymond's at the top. They're playing this weird two-man game, but everybody's so scared of the Curry shooting.

I'm not counting this team out. It reminds me a bit of when Brian Heideck was cast as the pool guy in Melrose Place, and he was like, look, I'm just happy to be here. Who is it? Brian who? Heideck. Who's that? Brian Heideck? Yeah, he played the pool guy in Melrose Place. It just reminds me a lot of that. Pool guy in Melrose Place? I feel like you're making this up. Google it.

Right. Hi, Nick. So is there anybody else you would put on the late bloomer list? Late bloomer list? Is there any hope for a healthy Orlando? So I had them marked down. They've been so, I mean, they were six and 14 in their last 20.

So there's only a way to go. Their offense in their last month, they're the third or fourth worst offense in the NBA. And boy, when it's bad on offense for the Magic, I'm surprised it was that high, that they were only 27. So the other three I had marked down, it's not going to be Detroit, even though there's a lot of good Detroit numbers for the last 20, 25 games. How many people do you think right now know what seed Detroit is? Yeah. Not only is Detroit...

for the people listening, probably locked into the sixth seed. It's not like an easy series for the Knicks. They're going to be favored. I would pick the Knicks, but I don't know if that's like the easiest series possible for them. The other two teams I have, Minnesota, just because, who knows, 31 and 26, but maybe something happens. Is Randall playing? I'm out. Is that good or bad? If Randall's playing, you're out. Okay. And then the only other one, I mean, Dallas, I guess we have to watch, but the only other one I was thinking was the Clippers.

If there's like a long, healthy Kawhi stretch, a Bogdanovich resurgence, they're really well coached like the Lakers. And, you know, could something blossom with them in March? I wouldn't rule it out. You want to do a little Clippers profile or do you want to save it? Want to take a break?

Yeah, let's take a break.

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Well, I'm glad. I don't think we spent enough time on Minnesota because I think we did 10 seconds on it. And I know they lost in the Houston game.

That was just kind of a frustrating game. They didn't have Rudy, but sometimes is that play to their strength now when you look at some of the declining Rudy stuff? But then that also means Houston can go small because even Houston against Utah last night, they lost because Utah's size bothered Houston. And granted, Houston's kind of rotating some guys in and out, so they're not playing with the full cast of guys. So look, sometimes you're just going to lose to Utah when George decides to go

all first team NBA, but let's just say, okay, open, like open to the idea. Like I feel a little bit better about Minnesota maybe than I did because in the beginning of the year when it was frustrating, it was like this team's healthy and these other teams are hurt and they're losing to these teams. But there's just a Randall stretch here where it's like, man, this, they might just be better without this guy. And they haven't had DiVincenzo for a month either. You're going to go might for that? They are.

I just think they're unquestionably better when he's not out there for them. I don't know. I've been watching basketball my whole life. It's just, he screws up the spacing. He, he, he's might be a good player on other teams for that team. He does. He's good for 20, you know, and it's like, okay, but there's just a lot of other stuff that, that we'd need for him. So here's what I don't love with Minnesota. Okay. As you know, I'm a, I'm on the amp bandwagon. There's been a lot of really high volume field goal games for him.

Yeah. That I can't really explain. Like, even if you just go into the, in, in January and February of this year, he had a 31 shot game. He had a 29 shot game, uh, 25, 28. So just the last two weeks, 28, 25, 28, 33, 18, 32. I, I don't think they're winning three playoff rounds with that happening would be my point.

And I don't really know. I haven't watched enough Minnesota the last three weeks to understand why that's happening. But it's just a lot of three. Like he took 14 threes in a game. He took 15 threes in a game, 17 and 14. Just a lot. You know, and then I look at the free throws. Like in one game, he had 28. They went by 19. He had 28 shots and 18 free throws, 25 shots and 15 free throws.

It's just, it's a lot of ant. I don't, that's pretty easy to stop when you get to a playoff series. So I wish they had a little, but I don't know if they have a lot of other choices. No, they've done a good job. Like Terrence Shannon's been playing well. Clark, this other young players coming in, he's been good for him defensively. And, um,

Yeah, like I'm not disagreeing with any of that stuff. I just think there's certain dudes that maybe I defend because I like them, but I think I like and dislike players for very valid reasons. And for the high volume stuff with him, I think it just ends, the ball just ends up back in his hands. Right. And, you know, he's getting trapped, he's getting a ton of attention, and it's up to you to figure all that stuff out. I mean, he had a play against Houston where he split the screen and it was,

it was two defenders that came with him and he just split it in a way where I just couldn't believe and believe like it was physically possible. And then he almost throws it down from there. And so, because he's capable of doing some of that stuff, um,

I don't know that he wants to take those shots. Like some other players, like again, you just go through the list of guys I don't necessarily like. I think they're totally fine being like, cool. You did a good job on the lamello usage rate, shot rate stuff. You talked about that in your pod a couple weeks ago. Yeah. Per 100, he's taken the most shots. It was like 2006 Kobe? Yeah. Like we haven't seen somebody take that many shots per 100 possessions. That guy should be in the all-star game. He should be. Well, the other reason he got so many all-star votes is somebody pointed out to me after the fact, and they're like, do you realize like if you

Well, the voting was still open, but if you went to the voting tab, it was done by points per game. So he was like the first option when you went to the page to vote as a fan. So he's popular. They have the top Instagram handles in the NBA. Him and Lonzo have two of the top five. For most viewers. People like the balls. They're going to have plenty of lottery ones as well. Oh,

Before I switch topics, that Minnesota-Houston game when Dylan Brooks was talking shit to Ant and they got into it a couple of times and then that game just got more and more competitive and heated and kept going and kept going is in the running for my favorite game of the season.

I love that game. But I knew, like, going into it, that was one of those deals where it's like, whatever I'm doing tonight, I'm watching Minnesota and Houston. I wonder, is Dylan Brooks, does he do that again? Or is he like, all right, here's somebody I shouldn't do that to again? Or does he double down on it the next time they play? And what happens in a playoff series? Are you serious? He's definitely going to do that. Do you remember him in that Lakers series? Where people thought his career was over? This is different, though, with Ant.

I actually think he might double down because he might think Ant might punch him in a series and then he would take Ant out of the series, basically. Well, he did it to LeBron in a way, but LeBron was just not going to fall for it. But the thing that turned everybody off. Yeah, LeBron was way older and smarter. Right, and then Brooks couldn't make a shot.

And then he didn't do a media availability. And it was like, what? Yeah, I didn't like that either. Brooks is a better player now, though, than he was in that Lakers series. It was an awful Lakers. People were going, get ready to learn China, buddy, type of stuff. I mean, he was a China meme dude. And then all of a sudden he gets a huge contract from Houston. And to Houston's credit, they desperately need him. And what I liked about that game is this Amin Thompson thing.

progression is like nightly man. You have to watch him every night to see it. And you know, you and I were talking about him. We did that pod for the trade value thing. I was like, yeah, doing this at the worst possible time. Cause you're going to lose your shit about Thompson. But I feel good about, I thought we were properly careful while also respecting the moment. Where was he again? He was like 19. Okay. Um,

And I had said something and I remember I was pissed when we did it. I wasn't like mad. I wasn't like mad the next day type of mad. But I was like, you know, are you still going to run like pick and roll for him in a late possession? And you were like, well, they did on the game winner. And I was kind of like, I didn't want to get into it with you. I was like, there's four seconds left. They inbounded it to him and he uses athleticism and he hits the game winner against Boston.

The stuff he was doing against Minnesota and even some stuff that I saw last night against Utah, like the drive and kick stuff that he's showing now. And there was a, you know, like granted we know he can't shoot yet, which is the funniest thing about how much we all love watching plays. Like, you know, the joke is he's not even good yet.

And it's this much fun. Right. But he hit a shot because Utah just didn't respect him. He had a shot late last night where it was like, I'm catch and shoot three. Like, I'm not even going to dick around with this. Like, I'm getting this shot up. I'm going to make you try to come out here a little bit more. There's more and more ball handling with him where they trust him, where these there could be this amend Thompson reward of these Van Vliet, these Van Vliet minutes as as

like disrupted as they can be because clearly they need him to organize them on offense, even though they have all these clutch wins, but other clutch numbers stink, which is one of the weirdest profiles. Nobody can create a good shot. That's why with Thomas and it's like at least when he's driving to the basket,

And he kind of doesn't know where he's going or what's going to happen. But he always goes by whoever's guarding him. But he kind of does know that there were these kickouts in that Minnesota game where it was a very clear, like when he takes off, he's going, if I don't have this, I know where to kick it out. And it's also just awesome having Jabari back as the stretch option because it gives you some more flexibility with Shingun. Because I'll admit, there's some Shingun Knights out there

Where I'm like, what's up with him? Are you there at all with that? Just feels like he's, depending on the matchup, he's kind of one of those guys. Yeah. And Adams at this point is kind of like, do you know how old Steven Adams is? Isn't he like 28? It's like some crazy number. Yeah, he's 31. Right. But he's been in the league for 25 years. Yeah. I don't think he should be this bad.

So having Jabari back is really important for them. So look, I mean, none of this was... That's one of those where they could have probably flipped Steven Adams and one of the 90 picks they have to get Capella or somebody who could actually play a little bit more for them. I had them on my list for subplots for the last 30 games because they're 3-8 in their last 11, 18th in net. They've dropped to 35 and 21 for the season. And they're a 5 seed right now, but...

Like if I'm golden state and I'm five losses back from them with a bunch of time left, I feel like I can catch them. Cause I thought Houston was overachieving with some of the stuff that was happening to them the first two months. Um, the league, their conference is getting better. Clippers are better. The Lakers are better. The Warriors are better. And I, I don't know if they're going to stay in the top six. That would be my pick to drop out. What do you think?

I was looking at some of that schedule stuff in the expanded schedule where if you look at games against teams 500 or more, which we've already gone through in the record stuff, but Denver's played 26 games against teams with that, and Houston's played 35. So scheduling-wise, they've been a little unlucky. But then when you look at the remaining schedule stuff, I mean, it's the top three most difficult remaining schedules. It's Phoenix, Denver, and L.A. Houston's like down at 18. So it should, because of that number in the record I told you about, it should even out.

Like, I can't wait to see what LA does. Yeah. Torrey missed the game. So, you know, I'm not putting a ton into the Utah loss. I put way more into the Minnesota win. Because that's one of the subplots that's left is who are the 10 teams going to be? And more importantly, who are the play-in teams going to be? And then how can you avoid that eight spot where you have to play OKC in round one, which would just suck no matter who you are. You know, it does feel like Phoenix is going to drop out and we should talk to them.

We'll talk about them. They're 27 and 29. They have three more wins than your Portland trailblazers. Your favorite team. There's six of them. They're last 15. They're 19th in that. I know you talked to Goldsberry about this and you're a pot on Friday, but I sat at that game with Goldsberry and, uh, the sons were absolutely alarming in person. Give it to us. Give it to us. No other word. Body language bill. Oh my God. I mean, we were pretty close to the bench, so I could really watch it. It's, they weren't talking to each other. Um,

You know, you judge certain things like how many guys get up after a big play on the bench. What are guys doing during timeouts? What happens when a star player walks by his coach? Does he acknowledge him? Does he talk to him? Does he just kind of stop by? Does one of the star players yell at the coach? Well, KD yelled at Bud twice during that game. There was near the end.

One of my favorites is when one of the stars, there's somebody shooting free throws at the other end, and one of the stars moves to the furthest part of the court away from everybody just to go sulk in the corner. That was KD near the end because he was so mad the way they used him in that game. And the team played like crap. They were playing all the hits. And it is not a team that seemed very happy. And I don't know. I actually, we were talking and it was like, I don't think,

Bud was trying to get fired, but it was the kind of coaching where you were like, if that guy's trying to get fired, I would point back to that game where it's like, you're just leaving Grayson Allen out there for the entire crush. I didn't get killed by Darren Fox. It was, it was weird. It was a team that was not on the same page in any respect and, uh, and seemed unhappy. That was my takeaway leaving for two and a half hours, an unhappy team.

Yeah, it's not Bud's fault that people can't come over to help on cuts. And Durant had a bunch of those. Swiping late, out of position. And if you don't believe me, I think Van Gundy was on the broadcast of that one too, being like, what? It was tough. What are you doing? And Durant puts up these numbers, but I mean, there's some stuff here. And look, the worst thing Durant did was tweet that the NHL has loyalty and doesn't trade his players, which is still one of the dumbest tweets I've ever seen. Did he do that? When was that? Yeah.

Yeah, it was during the whole stretch where it's like, why don't you watch something else? And you're like, all right, dude. When you look at their whole thing here, I don't know. Rebound is usually a number where you see rebounding decline. It kind of speaks to effort and all that kind of stuff. I mean, he's under five rebounds a game in February. The crazy thing is some of the other numbers are nuts because the guy can't miss a shot right now. The shooting splits are incredible. Right.

Free throw attempts are down the last couple months. So, you know, I don't I don't know if this is hey, this is part of this little decline here with him. But he still gets his numbers because the guy is so brilliant offensively. But like, you know, it's kind of up to you, man. It's kind of up to you to be a part of the solution here. And they've tried some different things.

And they're just not very good, even when they're winning games. Well, you know what they unfortunately tried to do is they tried to trade him and didn't tell him. And I think that was the death knell. Because, you know, the way the NBA works. I don't think he's wanted to be there, man, going back to last summer. You think that this whole season you don't think he wanted to be there? No, I don't think. I think there was pretty strong indications that if he could have gotten his preference to go somewhere else this summer, he would have done it. Interesting. You don't think so? You didn't hear anything? I don't know.

Well, I never know what to believe with Durant stuff, but I had always heard that he likes Phoenix. Um, but I think it was a pretty unusual move by them to shop him around quietly with the don't tell anyone in a league where somebody is immediately going to tell somebody. And that's how they found out. I just thought that was the kind of thing you do when you're trying to burn the relationship. Well, Luke had never found out. Um,

I listen, I test wise, I've been watching three in his whole career. He's at a slightly different point in his career. Physically. You can see it. He's as amazing as he is. And we've never seen a guy with that kind of size and shooting and athleticism. He's a little bit creakier than he used to be. You can see it when you watch it. And it makes sense because he's been in the league since 2007. Like this is, this is how it goes. Um,

I just, I don't really enjoy them. Like I looked at it last year. Remember we kept waiting. Hey, I don't care about any of the stats and the fourth quarter stuff didn't make any sense. It was so bad. It had to be an anomaly. And that part of it's been fixed a little bit, but even with last year's injuries and guys missing games, they were 38 and 28 through 56. They're 27 and 29. Now after an eight and one start their bottom third and offense and defense the last month,

Katie's only missed 13. Booker's only missed three. The Beal bench thing, it doesn't matter because I don't think that dude cares at all. You know, I really, I just don't. So they're just, you know, they needed those three guys to be just top level, not to sound like a soccer analyst. And they've rarely gotten that. The Beal thing was interesting to watch in person because he was in a funk to start the game and wasn't really trying hard.

And then there was a moment where you could almost see him be like, oh shit, this is on TV and there's fans. And then he started trying harder. But you know, it's an unhappy team. I will promise you that that team does not make the playoffs. There's no solution for whatever is wrong with them. And I don't, you know, it's, it's probably the all time new owner syndrome example we're going to have other than Prokhorov, which I think is number one. Although Dallas in the running. Fair. Yeah.

Fair. I'd still think it's unbelievable. Like I've done this assignment. If you go through every ownership transition, the new owners fuck up so bad within the first 12 to 18 months, like even Cuban, when he brought it in and I never forget him being on with Dan Patrick talking about acquiring Rafe LaFrance. And I remember thinking like, what the hell is he doing? And then Cuban just so good after 10 minutes of Dan Patrick, I was like, Oh,

I guess getting Rafe LaFrance is a good idea. Well, think about it. If we bought the Pelicans, would we just keep the roster intact for a year? Or would we just be going out to dinner every night trying to figure out what our first trade was going to be? I feel like they would be the latter. I would be so determined if I owned a team to not screw up in the first 18 months. I would just be like, say no to everything. So I think Prokhorov was worse than the Luka trade. And here's why.

Because the Luka trade, as ridiculous and absurd as it was, and it's going to go down as one of the worst trades in the history of the league and maybe in the history of sports. So putting that aside, at least there was a strategy in place that I genuinely think they believed. The strategy was insane. It makes no sense. It made no sense when it happened. It's indefensible.

But they had a plan and a strategy. Prokhorov, his plan was let's spend as much money as possible and do whatever it takes. I don't care about picks. Let's keep going, going, going, going. And then it didn't work for a year. And he was like, I'm out. No more money. I'm not spending anything. He just zagged the other way. But now they had no more picks left. I just don't feel like anyone's ever going to top that.

Two strategies that one was worse than the other. And in the span of two years, and he just demolished basketball in Brooklyn for no reason. Well, the fact that he changed course so quickly after he'd already started, like, you know, it's like digging a hole for a house and going, you know, it should be over here now.

No, you can't. I mean, even then, eventually you'd have a house at the end of it. It's like digging a hole for a street. It wasn't even one house. It was like nine houses. Which way do you want these highways going? North-south? I didn't realize the sun came that way. I'm out. Let's not do this. Just sell the lots. Yeah. But the problem is there's no single piece that's as damp. I mean, I guess you could get into the Tatum and the draft picks and all that kind of stuff. But

They weren't like Tatum wasn't playing for that franchise and having everybody fall in love with them over the course of seven years. The way like the reaction, like I saw a quote the other day on the Luca trade where somebody had said we had underestimated the reaction to this. Multiple people said that. What did you think was going to happen?

And it just sucks even worse because 80 gets hurt immediately. But the other thing that I love too about this, and I'm going to make this joke throughout the rest of my career is this stupid fucking timeline people do and talk about and how married they are to the age timeline of NBA rosters. Like,

We need somebody on this timeline. It's like, so if Cooper flag, if you had like the number one pick, would he be too young to put with Kyrie and AD now? Like he's not on our timeline. Yeah. Right. Like as if every rebuilding team, everybody has to be between 18 and 22. And then any team that's like going for a championship is like, this guy's 25 and good. What the fuck are you guys doing? It's way too much of a gap with the rest of our timeline and all this stuff. So.

Also, the iconic part of the reason you're getting rid of Luca because he's not a safe enough risk physically and his devotion to the game. And then you trade for Davis who gets hurt an hour into his first game. Or when I thought you nailed it when you were tweeting out about that really good feature with the owner who's, what is he, the son-in-law? Married into the family. Patrick, is it Dumont? This is your dream. This is what I want to happen to you.

you marry into the rich family that's thinking about getting in a professional basketball this is this is it this is the path no i like i go on instagram and constantly like single daughters of nfl ownership their pictures i'm like oh killing it you know nothing creepy just really tasteful stuff be like oh it's such a great sweater you know but that party looks awesome yeah oh my god you guys that's so great that you guys reach out to the community like that

Keep doing you. He went through all of these players. Clearly, Nico had gotten to Patrick. It was basically to be on brand here. The messaging should be like, we here at the Dallas Mavericks want people that are fully committed. And clearly, look, it's no secret on the Luka thing. He wasn't committed enough. I'm not going to make the argument that he was and was misunderstood. But you can't then run through all the list of players and be like, Kobe and Shaq.

When Shaq himself would admit that I could have done a better job. And that was the whole reason of the Kobe Shaq divorce is that Kobe, you know, Phil's line to him being like, your 10 is unattainable for everybody else. Your 10 is their seven. And they don't understand that there's a higher number. That's your gift. That's what makes you, you. So holding everybody else to that standard is completely pointless. All you're going to be doing is wasting your time. So getting on Shaq's case, because he's not going to approach the off season the way you are, that's unsolvable, man. And,

And so when he went through the list of players that he admired because of their work ethic and their conditioning and all that stuff, and as much as we all love Shaq, he'd be the first to admit that he didn't take it serious enough while he played. So it was an awful quote. He wouldn't have been in my top 700 to list for that. I remember when John Walsh sat me down and told me that my 10 was everyone else's seven. What did you say? Thanks, John.

Thanks for just to relax on everybody on Greenland. Did he? Did he say that to you? No, he didn't. What did he say to you? What's the most meaningful thing that he ever said to you? Most meaningful thing John Walsh ever said to me? To care about the relationships with the people you have professionally, because those are things going to last after you do whatever you're doing professionally, which I think took me a long time to realize.

Yeah, I didn't realize that until recently. And he didn't say he recommended Game Change, the book, which I did enjoy that summer. It's a good one. It's a good book. More storylines for you.

I almost don't want to get to Philly. I feel like Philly is like, like the, the, the, uh, let me ask you then. Let me ask, let me ask you a Philly question off of what we just did. No, but I'm saying I want to almost save Philly. Philly is like the fucking huge dessert we have coming out. That's got like the table where the guy's going to do like a baked Alaska. Like that's how much excited I am. Talk about, does anyone actually make a bake? I've never even seen one. It's referenced. It's the most referenced food item that I don't even think exists.

Never seen it on a menu. I've never seen a presentation. I've never seen anybody order one. I think it's fake. I think I've had it like once in my life. Philly is 20 and 36. They have the sixth worst record in the league. They've lost seven straight. And they owe a top six picks to OKC. And now they're in the zone where it's like, should we just fucking...

Should we tank it? What do we do? And it's funny. I wrote down, could this hit mid 2010 Brooklyn proportions for them? Or I was thinking of like the, the single weakest situations we've seen in the NBA. And I think the, the bleakest they can get. And I've certainly rooted for Celtics teams that had pieces of it. Like that when the Vin Baker trade, when it was became clear that there was no way of getting out of his contract and you just start looking ahead and you're like, wow, this is, so we're going to have this for three more years. Yeah.

And we're just fucked. And that slow realization comes in. And I think it's hitting some of the Sixers fans with the George Embiid money. So you have that on top of, you might give the seventh pick in the draft to OKC. You might not even get a draft pick out of this season if you can't land the plane on this lottery. What would you do? Oh, tank. So you're shutting everybody down. Yeah, there's no point. Why is this Embiid thing going to look better this year? It's not. It's not going to look better tomorrow.

And then Paul George, he's like, yeah, my finger, I'm taking shots. It's like, well, why can't you move? Why do you seem slow half the time? But are there other injuries you have that you're not telling us about? Um, if I were a CEO of a company and I wanted to short my own stock, but I couldn't just say it outright, I would hire Paul George to run PR. What are they doing over there?

Do we feel like we went strongly enough on us being concerned from the moment they did that contract to the start of the season? Because I feel like we both of us danced around, including a combos with each other recorded where I was trying to be diplomatic. But deep down in my soul, I just felt like this was a bad fit. And it's been way worse than I thought.

See, the problem with it was is that on one hand, you have Daryl pulling a rabbit out of his hat in a way that very few GMs can, you know, whether it's having a top five player in the world when he's healthy and indeed, because that's what he was. I mean, but, you know, even if you don't like him now and I don't like him now.

Um, you have a guy who's going to make multiple all-star teams, most likely in maxi. You hit what? 21st pick. And then all these other little things and you delay the maxi extension. You figure out a way to move Harden out because you knew after that playoff series, it's like, I don't really want to extend this guy to whatever was talked about and how many different versions of that story you've heard. And then you have this cap space that almost never works out for anybody. And then you have this rare instance where the, um,

In this case, the Clippers, the incumbent team, decide they're okay losing the asset for nothing and not giving this player who's all NBA level a fourth year.

Right. Like everybody just gives him the fourth year. Like, why are you not giving him the fourth year? So you have this one team that's deciding to not give the fourth year. And it's not like they weren't going to pay him a ton of money in the three years, but they're not going to give him the fourth year. Like, who cares? Just do the fourth year. You'll figure it out later. It's better than just letting him walk. And they let him walk. So now you can use this cap space on a guy who in theory is all NBA, even if we would say that he feels like with all of his talent.

Like at the end of it, Paul George is probably going to be kind of a disappointing player for his, for his career. And now he's even worse. Like when they've needed him, when other guys have been out and you've needed him to be this alpha, he's just incapable of it. And then on top. So like, it's all of this credit on top of, to your point, like is George personality wise, the guy that fits into Philadelphia and knowing what the standard is and knowing what the expectations are. And it's been, is it more disappointing than Phoenix? Well,

I'm personally more disappointed because we had Phoenix in that big super boost, which I haven't lost all decade. So that was kind of like, like all of us were aligned on. We think Phoenix is going to be really good. I can't wait to watch this offense and they've all been healthy, which is the weird part. So, I mean, to me, that's almost more surprising. I can't say I'm, I can't say I'm surprised that Embiid broke down and that Paul George looks a little long in the tooth. What's surprising to me is how miserable everybody seems to,

And the fact that there's no outs. To go 20 and 36 is really hard. That's a bad record. Now you're on pace for... What's that? 27 and 55? There's a reason they're in the standings. Can I push back on one Paul George thing now? Yeah. Because you said ultimately you're going to remember him as kind of disappointing. I think he's exactly...

It was exactly the best version of whatever career we ever would have thought it was going to be. I don't like he, he made conference finals a couple of times. He had that one nice playoff series with the Clippers after Kawhi left. He also had a couple where he wasn't that great. I still like, I would still take him over Vince Carter and Carmelo and people like that from a success standpoint. You take him over Mello. I wouldn't take him as, as a player from like, I have Mello ranked in the top 75, but I'm just saying like his achievements are,

I think he's achieved more than Carmelo did as a player. Like, he made it further in the playoffs twice or three times. He was in the conference finals three times. And he was second team all-NBA. If Melo had been in the East, I think he probably, like, if you go through all the Melo playoff stuff, for the most part, every time he lost to a team, it was a team they were supposed to lose to.

I've heard that argument, but it doesn't explain 09 when I felt like they pretty easily could have beaten the Lakers. And I don't feel like he had a good enough series personally. That's fine. In that series. All right. You got me on the one. 2019 first team on Bay. I don't know. I think you said if you're going to compare him versus Carmelo and I was a Carmelo defender forever. But I also feel like now Carmelo has become a little overrated in retirement, which I think happens depending on if you have a podcast after retirement or not.

I don't know. We were there for the Carmelo thing. He was an incredible scorer, but the Denver years pretty much all the way through until 2009 were disappointing. Then pushing his way to the Knicks and making them basically trade all these assets that actually could help him if he stayed. I think that he gets dinged on that.

Yeah, there's nothing. He doesn't even have a moment. That used to be my Vince Carter argument was like, where's the playoff moment? Because for the longest time, and I know you'll be right down the middle on this one, people were actually trying to argue like Paul Pierce against Vince Carter before the 08 title. And you would just go, come on. There's a level to like, you've got to have some kind of playoff moment. And for Vince, for the longest time, he didn't have anything. I mean, it might have taken all the way until he hit a corner three for Dallas. So,

maybe it's just because Paul George at one point was in this conversation of like, could this guy be the best player in the league? And, you know, I guess you could do the same thing with Mello because early on, that's kind of how you looked at Mello. And then the playoff part of it, I can't sit here and defend it because it's generally really disappointing. But I think for George and some of those Pacers years, you were like, is this guy? And then it took forever for him to have like a playoff series. You felt like you could trust him.

And that was like Harden-esque, you know, for him. It was like, what is going on? And then they had lost Kawhi. They had that Utah series where Utah, I think, had that really good record in that two-year window. They kind of got Gobert stuck in the spot where he was trying to defend everybody. So he was really, really good. It was like, okay, well, that's like finally, like there's something there to kind of point to there a little bit. But he just needs to be...

I mean, we're back to the beginning of this whole thing. He is incredibly disappointed. He's so bad right now that I can't believe he's doing podcasts. You tell him to take a break? I would just be so embarrassed. Paul's going to be taking a month off? Obviously, that's not going to happen, but I would be embarrassed.

Being a dude who comes in with the four-year max and like, hey, we need you to be the guy throughout all this Embiid stuff. And Maxie's numbers aren't as good because I think Maxie was pressing and trying to go like, all right, I guess I'm going to take 25 shots and I have to raise the risk of what some of my shots are here. Is there any part of this that you would disagree with? Because even if he's older and all this different stuff, like, man, year one, this is what it looks like?

It's just so frustrating. Well, what would scare me for a Philly fan is we've seen this with other players that all of a sudden we're at a different level and you knew it right away. Like I always remember Jermaine O'Neal and Jermaine O'Neal had those two years through he was getting traded around and people were still acting like he was 24 and 10. Jermaine O'Neal just wasn't anymore. Usually when the stats drop this dramatically, they don't come back.

That's what we've learned. You can go on Basketball Reference. You can look at any of these guys. There's some sort of level, especially if it's second half of your career, when your stats go from here to here and that's just who you become. And we think it's coming back and it just never does. I'm still going to defend Paul George's 2019. I feel like that was a really good year to start to finish. Even that Phoenix series, he was...

Kind of carrying them. It was like he'd kind of reached his... The 2015 OKC year was good. And then that Clippers run. I don't know what it is for Carmelo. What is it? The 2013 Knicks season. Right, the regular season. Yeah, but you know what, dude? I'm sorry. I'm actually going to re-push back on your pushback. It's a double pushback? Yeah, right. Because if you look at the Thunder during those post-Durant seasons, OK...

Like they're getting blasted out in the first round. They lost to Portland in five games the year he was third in MVP voting. You know, and he has one of those horrible, horrible game sevens.

where you don't even notice that he's out there and like look we joke we've made this joke before you know it's a really simple test like do i forget you're out on the court paul george should never be somebody with his skills with that contract with philly's injuries this year where you forget that he's on the court in the fourth quarter and it happens all the time it would be a fun podcast just to discuss paul george's career for two hours there's a lot of ups and downs because the bubble was really bad the year after was really great you could go all over the map of it um

Couple more storylines quickly. Let me just finish this Clippers point, though. Oh, please do. Because, you know, their defensive profile is incredible.

Lawrence Frank in this front office, they deserve all the credit in the world for doing something that I just don't think a lot of teams would have done. Most teams would have given Paul George the fourth year. And to your point, like maybe that tells you something if they were so adamant of not doing it. But then again, it's like, well, it wasn't like he was going to play for free on the other three years. But I just laugh when I think about the Clippers transactions this year, because it's almost like, hey, who are all the players or Silla doesn't like? Let's bring them in.

the hardened one they need. They need his usage, the highest usage that we've seen from him in five years. But it's not just that. I mean, they have brought in Kevin Porter Jr., who they moved on from, who, you know, you want to talk about playing your own game when you're out there on top of all the other shit you can get into with him.

Bones, who couldn't make it work with Jokic. Like if there's... Hey, man, all you had to do was cut. All you had to do was cut and you would have got a second contract that would have worked out. And a ring. Mo Bamba, who is going to just forever trick teams. They brought in Kai Jones.

Okay. And then they were like, while we're at it, let's add Ben Simmons. This is an absolute anti-Rosillo heater of roster movement. And they're pretty good. I kind of like the Ben Simmons move.

Oh, do you? I didn't mind it. They paid nothing for him. He costs like five bucks. I tell you, that guy is like, all right, this Brooklyn thing's over. And then, you know, I just love that it was actually like a story of like, ooh, we're on Ben Simmons buyout watch. And it's like, of course he gets to go to LA. Of course he does. Good for him. It's a nice team for him.

Hey, Ben, just play some defense and bring the ball up for us. Can you do that? Occasionally do the thing where you drive really hard and then kick it back out to somebody. That's all we need from you. Grab some rebounds. And if you want to make all your offseason videos, make them.

I, if I'm paying Ben Simmons the minimum, I'm okay with it. If I'm paying $43 million a year for him, not as okay. This episode is brought to you by Workday. There are two kinds of people in the world, backward thinkers and forward thinkers. Forward thinkers have plans 15 minutes from now and 15 years from now.

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Is John Moran ever going to be John Moran again? Awesome question. Awesome question. Yeah, he's still young enough, but I've been worried this year. You? 34 games. He's missed 22. He's averaging 20 a game, 30% from three. Free throw attempts down to 5.9. They're 23-11 with him, 14-8 without him. And there's moments and flashes, but...

I was kind of expecting more from this season. We'll see. Maybe this is why maybe Memphis could be the late bloomer, even though they have a good record. Could he just go on a heater the next 20 games and look like Ja again? But it's not the guy from three years ago, I'll tell you that much. At least not yet. No, it isn't. And I do wonder if it's kind of like the disruptive pattern for him. Like, hey, he's back. He's not back. But I know they'll rest him sometimes in there as well. It just feels like a 25-year-old.

I'm not there yet. Be good for four weeks in a row. With you. Put up like a 28-10 for a month. So I'm watching that and it's hard to take Memphis seriously not knowing what we're getting from that dude. Even though I love Jaron Jackson. I think he's been one of the big winners of this season. I thought he went up a level. It's noticeable. He's an all-NBA guy for me right now. Jaw was really good against Orlando because Orlando never changes defense the entire time. So that was good.

Cleveland versus OKC for home court, 46 and 10 versus 45 and 10, taping it before both of their games today. But I think that's the storyline at some point because one of those teams could get a game seven and those are the only two teams left. Same thing for MVP where it's SGA versus Yorkage, although it seems like SGA is kind of got it locked up. It's minus 500. It would take a lot at this point. Next one. This is specifically for you. Can the Pistons, how frisky can we get? How much friskiness should I be prepared for?

Do I need to put on a frisky jacket to combat their friskiness? Right now. Are you suggesting a seasonal friskiness update ranking? What do you think their record is in their last 28 games? Last 28? I'll say 18 and 10. 19 and 9. Last 20 games, they're seventh in net. Cade Cunningham, your guy. You never gave up on him. You own the most amount of stock.

you were just buying other people's stock when they were down and he's averaging 25 and nine and has, if we kept track of who is the best player in that game as an award, I feel like he would have about 25 of them, 20 of them, 19 of them, 22, somewhere in there. But he's been awesome and they can rebound and they're tough. That's what I like. They're tough. It's a tough, like kind of,

It's a veteran team with some wild cards, beef stews out there. There's some elbows. Did you see that Durant dunk the other night? What was it? Just... He almost got horizontal to the ground at rim level. I don't know what was going on. Because I was watching... I forget which show I watched. Again, sports consultants available per diem. I guess we should say pro rata. But...

There was a show the other day I was watching where they were showing like something from track and field. There was a track and field meet and they were showing the high jumper and he was like jumping over

the thing where he would like, there was no Fosbury flop. He just jumped over it. Oh my God. Really? Yeah. So there was no one apparently on the set that would have been like, Hey, you realize no one would ever do a high jump this way. Yeah. And they didn't do it. And if you'd had Dern out there, he'd be like, this is how you do it. Cause it looked like he was trying to high jump the rim and,

when he hit this dunk. I'm so happy. I think scholars will look back at the Zach Cram, Cade Cunningham tablets as the turning point of his career because Zach did a piece that was like lit him up. Like, hey, this is who this dude is. An incredibly high volume, inefficient dude who may not have like one go-to thing that's all that great. And it feels like from that point on, he became the player we all thought he could be. So I think the tablets will be a turning point on his. Interesting. Maybe he'll get invited to the Hall of Fame.

the when Cade goes uh I actually was I've been sketching out all NBA every week just for as an exercise good for you getting those reps in when no one's just part of the pod process I have Cade I think I think there's a real case for him for second team all NBA right now who are your four guards well you figure Mitchell like SGA Mitchell or first team and Brunson's gonna be second team

And if you're going to go at least a little traditional and say, I want to put a guard as my fourth, you know, basically the fourth guard in second team on BA, it's between him and Edwards. And I think that's really it. What about Kyrie? Kyrie's in there and Curry's in there. If you're betting on the Curry bump. I had Kyrie and Curry and Edwards all 13. But I mean, it's all like I didn't really, I spent five minutes on it, but I was just, I was like, I wonder where Kate is.

And Cade, to me, with what he's done with Detroit, they lose Ivy and they somehow keep going. And how hard he plays every night. I'd have trouble leaving him off second team right now. It's him or Edwards. And you can talk me into Edwards because of the defense. But, you know, they have the same right. Teams have the same record. And you could say Edwards has more talent. So at least it's a good argument. So anyway, Cade I would have on there. So.

The reason I wanted to mention them though is because I think they're going to be kind of a bitch in the playoffs just for one round. I don't necessarily think they're going to beat the Knicks. I just think they're going to be really physical, super excited to be there. And they have a really good guy at the end of these games who's not afraid of whoever the best guy on the other team is. And it's an unusual six seed for a conference that I think is pretty awful once you get past the first four.

It's amazing what shooting can do when you have like a guy is going to have the ball in his hands as much as Kate. Because I've watched an Orlando game recently and we all love Paolo. I think that established. And whenever I watch him, I just think of like, there's just not enough spacing because Suggs is out. Right. This is too hard. It's like if there was ever a team that would love a prime stretch five per Zingas,

to balance out all the other stuff the guys could do. And it's not like they had this massive overhaul this offseason because all the young assets essentially are still there. Although Killian, how about his possessions and passing the other night? Was KFC wrong or just early? Some are asking. KFC still, he never gave up a stock. He's still holding on. Killian back in the league. Just the simplicity of a little bit more spacing.

You know, it's what every team, maybe there's just not enough shooting to go around, but every team should aspire to do that because it's just different. Your job is different now as his primary ball handler when there's just some people that you have to worry about. And look, last night's Denver game is a perfect example. The Lakers did not worry about any of those other guys all night. So a couple more subplots and then we'll go.

I mentioned the all NBA battles. What's weird is the top five seem like they're locked in unless a Mitchell Brunson development can happen, but I don't know how Mitchell's if Cleveland's going to have the best record in the East and maybe the best record in the league, he's probably going to be first team. Anyway, worst rookie of the year race in a while. Castles, Castles minus one 75 on FanDuel. It doesn't even start for the, I went to the game Thursday. I didn't start. Um, 10th playoff spot, Russian roulette in the East, uh,

Orlando seven, Miami eight, a game and a half back Atlanta nine at 26 and 30. And then you have three teams that legitimately don't want to even make the playing game. Chicago at 10, 22 and 34 Philly, 20 and 36 now, and then, or 35 and then Brooklyn, 20 and 35 Chicago, Philly and Brooklyn. I don't think want to be in the playoffs. Maybe Philly is just going to have to stumble into it.

You realize, though, this top, like they're they have the sixth worst record right now. Imagine if they tank and end up with the seventh pick and it goes to OKC, which is almost what happened at Dallas that year. And then Dallas ended up keeping the pick and getting lively. Remember, they are right on the edge. Yeah. And everybody lost their minds because they didn't want to be a 10 seed when it was like actually smart for one of them. Right. Yeah. Right. Right. Right.

Who gives a shit? Are you still bothered? Do you ever drive around? You're going down Sunset. You're like, I'll tell you what, though. Fucking Mavs a couple of years ago. Have you done zero times? I still stand by my foundation. You know what? I look back at my playbook and the thought process was you have Luka Dacic. You always have a chance if that guy's in your team. The next year they made the finals. Was I wrong? I think the criticism was outsized for what they actually were doing. Yeah.

I have no idea who's going to be the 10th seed. And what'll be funny is if it ends up being Chicago, which I think would be the team I would bet on out of those three. Chicago, a team that openly tried to sabotage their own team at the trade deadline and still might make the playoffs. So you have that. Then you have Tankapalooza. The Cooper flag stuff's heating up. Washington has a four...

Four win lead over everyone else. They have nine wins. New Orleans, Utah, Charlotte, Toronto, Philly is our top six. And Utah's hilarious because every once in a while, they look really good. Like I watched some of the Houston game and Houston was really trying to win and Utah's like, nah, we're going to do this and watch this and then we'll do this. And they just look really competent from time to time. And I don't know how they're going to

fuck up, but they seem pretty happy where they are. Or then they'll run a play where Keontae George in that Lakers game that I was at. I almost tweeted it out. Will you remember where you were when they came out of a timeout and Keontae George threw up a left-handed floater in the lane? I think it was actually a left-handed jumper. Maybe it wasn't out of a timeout. There was another play out of a timeout where I think they turned the ball over immediately. They have a lot of on-ball guys with confidence. I will say that about the Utah Jazz. Who do you want to have win? If you could go right now, win...

Because, I mean, if you think Scoot and Cooper flag the next 10 years over under three and a half titles. Trying to think. How many did the mid-80s Lakers win? They won five. Nine finals in 12 years. Listen, if this season, if any great thing happened through 50 games other than Dallas making the dumbest trade I've ever seen, we might be alive with Scoot. We haven't talked about this on a pod. We might be alive. We might be. It's still breathing.

There's enough there and he's young enough that I feel okay. This isn't like where I was mentally, you know, a month and a half ago with this, where it felt like a sunk cost. Now I'm, you know, he's gotten better. He's getting so big. Last thing. And Dallas got killed as we were taking this to go and stay, but they're not getting their bigs back until the first week of March. What do you, where do you have them in your head?

Because that's another subplot for the last 30 games. I'll probably like them better than the Clippers. When they have everybody? Yeah, I might even like them better than Houston. Here's the thing. I liked the healthy them. I thought they were better this year.

before all this trade stuff. Like they were always a team that I had to say, don't, don't lose sight of them with all of this Lucas stuff. Like I think Denver paid this weird Aaron Gordon price where people were looking at what they were doing or what they weren't doing. And you go, I don't really care. Like if Aaron Gordon's going to miss this many games, he's so important to what they do. Let's see what they look like when they get him back. And clearly Luke is even beyond that. And 80 is even beyond that for Aaron Gordon on that part of it. So, um,

I think you still have to keep it open for them, even though, I mean, imagine having three centers like this that you would feel so good about and none of them are playing. Well, the good news for them

It looks like they're going to keep the 10 seed no matter what happens, unless Phoenix gets their shit together, which, um, I don't think will happen. And I didn't make one be a subplot because we already know how that's going to play out. It's such a bummer. I thought San Antonio was kind of lurking as a party crasher for, uh, maybe a nine or a 10 seed, but now that one shot and they're going to sink back. Um, and the one B thing is a bummer. We don't, there's really not a lot to say about that one. Um,

So if I had to bet, so Sacramento you would have as a 10 seed, 30 games left. Is there anything you've seen from Sacramento that got you excited since all the trades? I don't think it's going to be. You think it's going to be San Antonio in the 10? No, I think San Antonio is out. I have Phoenix and San Antonio out, and I have Sacramento as the 10. I think that's how that plays out. And maybe Dallas passes them and becomes the 10 and Sacramento's not. But I think that's something. It looks something like that.

I think it's Sacramento. I mean, at least with Sacramento, I kind of know what I'm getting. You know, I know. Good to see Sabonis and Valanchunas back for you. I've loved it. Sad to see those guys. I know you watched a lot of Lithuanian Olympic tape. All right. Any other subplots before we go that you care about? No, I care about you sending me a deep dive thing that you've been just YouTube in and out like a high school kid with no friends. You want to do that really quick? I do because I have one for you because you gave me the assignment. Mine will be quick, but I know you really want to do this. So go for it. No, I asked you. I said,

We should talk at the end of the pod or near the end of the pod every Sunday about one rabbit hole we fell into over the course of the week because I think we both fall into rabbit holes, either a book rabbit hole or some sort of YouTube or somebody sends you a video and you're like, what's that? And then you're watching seven of them. I really want to talk about this Lorne Michaels book I was reading, but we don't have to do that today. So somebody sent me a Reddit thread about

The Silver Springs performance by Fleetwood Mac in 1997 in the dance. I don't know if you're familiar with this. I'm not. I mean, I'm, you know, look, who doesn't love a little Fleetwood Mac in the background, but go for it. Well, so this is why, this is why the deep dive so much fun. Um, so Stevie Nicks and Lindsey Buckingham, they're together as a band in the early seventies. And then they ended up joining Fleetwood Mac, right? Both of them together and they're dating and they're in a hot relationship and, um,

They write the first album there together. Rumors, the most famous album they made, they broke up as they're making that album. And then a couple other people in the band broke up too. Basically, everybody in the band's breaking up with somebody they're dating in the band. And that's what the album becomes. So they cut out Silver Springs, which is this song she wrote about Lindsey Buckingham.

They cut it out of rumors. It's a great song. They put it on the B side instead, and it becomes one of the biggest albums ever, but Silver Springs is the B side. She's mad about it forever because it's one of her best songs. When they do the dance, now they've broken up, Lindsay's with somebody, and they go on stage and they do this, and they rehearse it, and she's playing it the same. But then when they do it for the actual concert film and the album,

She really gets into it and starts like kind of staring him, giving some side eye stares as she's doing it. All performative. I think I've seen this. It's one of the best clips on YouTube is Stevie Nicks by the last like minute and a half of the song. And he's just playing. And now she's like turning over and walking toward him.

And she's now like, and her eyes are starting to bulge out. And she's like, you'll never forget. I forget the lyrics. Um, the, the voice of the woman that haunts you. And she's just like yelling it out. And he's just like, all right, cool. And he's just playing the guitar. Um,

Well, that must have made them want to get back together. Well, and then at the end, she's like, the lyrics in the song are, you'll never get away from the voice of the woman that loves you. And she's like, you'll never get away. You'll never get away. And she's like, and it's a thing. And it's become, ever since YouTube popped up, it's become a thing. And then there's all these theories about the performance, how much of it was performative, how much it was a stage. This Reddit thread that I got sent was about how

They're preparing to do this comeback thing and they might've gotten involved a little bit again. And because they have these different interviews where they're talking about what a good place they're in and they're, they have interviews together where they seem a little lovey dovey and maybe, maybe some sparks will fly, maybe not. But then by the time they do the dance, they're,

It's clear to her that she, that he's with somebody else, like for whatever, because here's the piece. He has a kid the next summer. So this is what the thread. That's evidence. That's usually good evidence. Yeah. With somebody else. By the time they do this performance, he probably knew they're having the kid.

And this was when it maybe died for Lindsay. So the theory was, for Stevie. So the theory was when she's singing this, it's like within a few weeks of after she found out, maybe they don't have a chance to get back together. And she's pouring it on in the thing. But it's a legendary YouTube clip. Anyway, I read, I spent an hour and a half reading everything I could read about this on the internet yesterday at 2.30 in the morning Boston time. I think that's time well spent. Thank you. That's good. Because I'll get into a band thing

whether it's new or something I want to revisit. And I'll be like, all right, I'm going to read about Dwayne Allman for an hour, you know? So I actually do kind of like this stuff. It's the seventies music stuff. Everybody's got,

A story that is at least worth an hour of your time that goes in a bunch of different directions. The other thing I found out was there's a 1977 performance of Silver Springs because people thought they never really played it that much. That's on YouTube in black and white of like an original performance of her, like right after they broke up singing it. So I watched that too.

Anyway, because I'll go through some like talking heads phases. I love them and I like them so much that, you know, again, it's I'm not going to get to experience it the way people get to experience when it first happened. But I always think

Like I'm having Les Claypool of Primus on at some point here soon, who's generally considered one of the best bass players of all time. And in the beginning with Primus, you were just like, what the fuck is this? And I'm so fascinated to think of like what it was like when Les Claypool was like, well, I want to make the bass the feature thing and I'm going to sing these songs and they're going to be a little different. My voice is probably not.

not the most traditional rock star kind of voice. But then once you kind of buy into the whole thing, you just appreciate how great the music is and how great he is. But I can't imagine how many people told him in the beginning, like, are you kidding? This isn't going to work. And when I think about the talking heads, like I just imagine was New York so cool. Cause I read that. Please kill me. Punk book about just punk. I read that city. Yeah. And I, I'm glad I read it. And I'm also like, it was so disgusting. Yeah.

that I couldn't, you know what I mean? Like, I'm going to get through this. It was so gross in so many spots and I certainly don't feel like a prude, but after a while you're like, all right, I got it. It was a weird time. Wait, can I read you Silver Springs lyrics really quick and then you go to your deep dive? Yeah, but you have to sing it. Just a couple of samplings? No, I'm not singing it. Time cast a spell on you, but you won't forget me. I know I could have loved you, but you would not let me. I know that. And then later...

I'll follow you down to the sound of my voice will haunt you. Give me just the chance. You'll never get away from the sound of the woman that loves you. This is when she kicks it up in the performance. And then the end is, was I such a fool? I'll follow you down to the sound of my voice will haunt you. Give me just the chance. You'll never get away from the sound of a woman that loves you. And then it just keeps going and going and going. Yeah.

Anyway, it all played out on stage and it's amazing. And it's one of the best YouTube clips. She screams you man whore, I think, too, in there. No? I don't remember that part. Okay. Yeah, so I referenced her, I think, at the very top. I'm reading...

uh, all three volumes of, uh, Susan Wise Bowers. The first one is the history of the ancient world. Um, and I just love it. She's a complete pragmatist about things. And I'm going through some of the early Egyptian dynasties. And so I just finished the chapters on the pyramids and I, uh,

don't understand why people love conspiracy so much. I know it was conspiracy bill. This may be offensive to you, but usually there's a very simple, the, the Occam's razor, you know, what's the simplest explanation? Be like, that's probably what it is. So there was another author, um, uh,

A Swiss author named Eric Von Dynikin, who wrote this book about how aliens essentially built the pyramids. And he wrote this book in the 60s. And it did really well. And then, you know, you always kind of wondered, like, what the hell is going on over there in Egypt? And if I had a kid and I couldn't answer that, I, you know, again, it's probably why I'm not a parent. You don't have a kid? No, but I feel like ill-equipped. If I had had a kid, it was like, what's up with the pyramids? I go, you know, shit.

He's got me. I haven't done a ton of research and I want to just go based on the Swiss authors thing from the 1960s. But Susan's explanation of it, like after you read literally two pages, Bill, about the history of like how the pyramids get started, like one small.

It's six levels up. So the next guy's like, well, mine's going to be seven. And then the next guy's like, well, I'm going to do like eight. But then that one doesn't get finished. Then another one doesn't get finished. Then there's another one called the bent pyramid where they're just kind of like moving them further away from everywhere after the previous one is built, by the way. And that's called the bent pyramid because they realize halfway through construction that their angles are off and it's going to be too steep and then it's not going to hold up. So they have to like flatten it out a little bit.

So there is physical visual evidence to this day of what would be kind of man's attempt at building these great works. And she just goes like, look, this one was small. Then they tried to build this one. It didn't really work. This one was unfinished. And then this one's like really screwed up.

And yeah, they've done a good job with the corners and it's a massive undertaking, but they just basically asked their citizens based on the Pharaoh's power of like, no, this is what we're doing, dude. Like we're building it and we're moving these stones around and it can take forever, but we're going to leave you some water and maybe like a sarong or something. And then they master like any civilization, they become better at building these things. And all it took was like a couple of pages for me to go, okay, well, that's the answer.

Like that's it. Now you're set. Yeah. So I'm going to have a kid is my point because now I can answer that question. What you just laid out reminded me of what happened in Vegas when they were building the casinos and the themes got stupider and stupider. And they were like, we're going to have a casino. It's, it's New York, New York. It's going to be like going to New York in a casino. And then somebody else would be like, Whoa, I'm going to make a casino called Aladdin.

And we just go and it's like you, it's like being in a fantasy. And then somebody else was like, I'm going to create Paris. And it's just going to be like going to Paris. Except somebody else said, I'm doing Venetian. And it's going to be like going to Italy. Some of these casinos stayed and then other ones just, you know, failed miserably. That's a really good, it's exactly, well, it's not exactly because I don't think anybody's ever accused, despite some of the weird Vegas stuff of ever being built by aliens. But like,

Not being educated on it and going, yeah, what is going on? Is it is it actually a perfect representation of all this mathematical stuff? Is it a reflection of the stars like all of these theories that I've heard over and over again? And then I never thought of like the simplest approach to it is that here's the first one. Here's the second one, third, fourth. And like by the time I think it's like the sixth or seventh one.

It's like, okay, now we've really got this thing locked in because we've been trying to build these things for years and years. And you go, oh, wow. All right. Yeah, that actually makes a ton of sense. I wonder if that's going to happen with NBA trades where the KD trade was basically your version of them completely fucking up that last pyramid before they got better at it. Or maybe the Luca trade will be the last one. And then we'll just get better at trades from that point on. Maybe that'll never happen. No.

They'll still mess up some pyramids. They'll probably still mess up some 2025. And Luca just got traded. Um, that should have been a nice last thing before we go. Yeah. Uh, it was really funny sitting next to my dad cause he's like an old married couple with the Celtics team. Cause he's been watching these guys so long. And so like the start of the second quarter, Jalen Tatum's out and it's going to be like Jalen's five minutes. Um,

where it's like that part of the concert where it's like Keith Richards has a new song for you and he's going to come out and play like his song.

And, uh, my dad's just like, watch this. Jalen's just gonna, he's just gonna try to get some shots off. Like this is, we just watch what's gonna. And, and it was like, he knows the team he's been going to the games too long. He knows like every part of it. And, uh, it was just really funny. Cause our record is like 39 and 15. We won the title last year. And it just proved to me, my 77 year old dad, you're just never going to be happy with sports.

He's complaining about Jalen, who's awesome. I think because they get older, and I'm going through this a little bit with my dad, where he'll complain about something sports-related, and I just go, what are you talking about, man? Do you not watch? Does your father not watch enough other games? Will he watch other NBA games that are non-Seltzers? No. He'll watch the TNT ABC sometime, but he watches every Celts game, which is kind of adorable because that's how he finds out sometimes about other teams.

Like guys, like you would see Wemby right before the break. And it was his first Wemby game. And it was just his scouting report really made me laugh because it was like, he's so long. He's not wrong. You think you have him and then he blocks it. I was like, yeah. Yeah, that's what it's like. I think it's a common thing with guys past a certain age is they're just so much older than

they're selfish they're incredibly selfish about what they want from their sports teams yeah i don't know if it's a counting down the years i'm not trying to be like morbid about this but it's possible it like my father can be so incredibly difficult like i went to a sporting event with him and now meanwhile the guy hasn't had to pay for a ticket because i've helped him yeah you know which i'm happy to do as a payback for all the years that he took me to all the games growing up but

Like if the Celtics get up big, he'll want the other team to make a run for his soul. Yeah. And I'll just be like, Hey, you can't, you can't fucking be doing that. All right. Like you can't, you can't be rooting on the other team for this five minute window. And he's like, I only get to a couple of these a year. It's like, well, you know what? You didn't pay for anything. The seat is awesome. And you need to not root for the calves for six minutes, just so you get not only a win, but

but a close one. Yeah. Well, I like with the older fans how cut and dry it becomes. Like my dad just wanted the Red Sox to sign Bregman. He's like, we need a right-hand hitter. He's going to be good in Fenway. He looked up no stats. None. He had no, there was no bibbip. There was no average annual salary. Home road splits. These guys don't care. No, it's like, we need a right-hand hitter.

And he's been really good in Fenway. He can't, you know, he can't lay down any of the stats of Bregman actually in Fenway, but that's just where he stands and that's the way it is. Yeah. See, that's, that's always like the funny thing with, um, you know, we're terrible because we live it, but your dad, and I don't even mean your dad or my dad, but everybody listening to this right now.

Like your dad's advanced scouting is if the guy had two doubles in like a three game series once. It's the Doc Rivers as a GM strategy of when I played Byron Mullins that time when he hit those threes. We got to get him. Was there any part of you that immediately looked up Bregman's deal and then compared it to the average annual salary of Mookie Betts?

No, I didn't do that. But I will say, I didn't think it was... I looked at his stats and noticed that he hadn't had a really awesome year since 2019, which made me nervous. But then MLB released their top 100 players and he was like 57. I was like, yeah, baby. Bregman. Kind of sucked me back a little bit. The Red Sox had four of the top 100. Well, I'm all over...

Baseball America again. I renewed my subscription at a benefit. Right. The prospect. Yeah. Big farm. I mean, that was my lunch reading for years and years. Christian Campbell, the Marcello mayor, Derek Barton, Anthony. Yeah. The Bregman thing pissed me off just because I can't think of any transaction without Mookie. I'm surprised. I would say 38 year old bill probably have seven, 7,500 words on the Mookie Luca thing.

No, you know what? I have 20 words for you right now. The Luka trade made me feel better about Mookie. It actually, it was a trade that was so much worse than the Mookie trade, which was reprehensible and awful. Cause at least we won the title with Mookie. Like they never even won the title with Luka. And then they traded them for, you know, they probably got more than the trade, but, but I, I really identified with the Mavs fans. Cause they,

What they were feeling after the trade was like Red Sox fans on steroids and HGH, how we felt with Mookie where you, but at least with the Mookie thing, we had time to prepare and it seemed, it seemed like it was headed that way for a year. It's like, oh man, they're going to fight. This is not going to end well. Luca, they had no idea. No, there was a lot of preparation on the Mookie thing. And I know it's not fair to do average annual salary because the Bregman thing can be a one year deal.

But, you know, one of the things about like these commitments for these position players that historically been so bad in baseball, with him, you figure he was going to age right. And...

You just go like, look what his deal will be in seven years, average annual salary compared to like what you're signing for now. And then what it will be is salaries keep going up. Although, you know, that's another topic that we could probably spend a lot of time on because I thought that ESPN baseball news was crazy. Like it was like, wow, you guys are actually opting out of live rights. You're going to do it. And then Manfred just...

daggers. We didn't want to be on a declining platform or whatever he said. I couldn't believe that. But, you know, he's

he's setting the table because he needs to negotiate with other people. And he's trying to make it seem like ESPN was a bad partner. And that's why our ratings were down because they didn't push the game. I get why he did it. It's just really unusual. But I think baseball is a local sport. And I think we've known that for 10 years. And you and I have personally talked about it 10 times. I don't think people want to sit there. Oh, it's Sunday night. I'm going to watch the Cincinnati Reds play the Milwaukee Brewers. Like nobody's doing that.

Not anymore. 60 years old. Do you remember when you used to do it? Because I did it religiously. It didn't matter who was playing. It was Sunday Night Baseball and I couldn't wait. Yeah. Days are over. All right. We got to go. Rossello, good to see you. We'll see you next Sunday. And next Sunday when Celtics City starts, the last segment of the pod, we're going to do some sort of topic based off of whatever the first episode was. That'd be good to get some Celtics content in the pod. Fire it up.

That's what the people wanted. They kept asking. Good to see you, Rosillo. Good to see you. All right, that's it for the podcast. Thanks to Rosillo. Thanks to Kyle and Serena and Gahal as well. Don't forget, you can watch this as a video podcast. You can also check out clips on the Bill Simmons YouTube channel. We have a new Rewatchables coming on Monday night. That is a video podcast as well on Spotify. And you can check out the Ringer Movies YouTube channel for entire videos of that as well. I'm going to see you on Tuesday. Enjoy. Bye.

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