Episode IX: Olympic Icon Greg Louganis
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Well, Bowen, I think this may just be the luckiest day of our lives and our listeners' lives because we have a true legend. And when does that happen? Certainly not when it's just us talking. Not when it's just us talking. I feel like I'm about to...

dive off the three meter springboard into iconography with this guest. We manifested this, didn't we? We sure did. And the puns are already flying. Our producer made one before we got on. Bowen just made one. Before we make a third and embarrass ourselves already, let's introduce

I mean, just one of the all-time greats. He's already up and at him this morning. He's got a school event. He's fitting us in. The schedule is jam-packed. Everyone, please welcome four-time Olympic gold medalist Greg Louganis, everybody! Hey! Hi!

Hi. How are you doing? We're good. We're not as active as you are today. What's the school event you're going to? Okay, so in Oxnard, the school district in Oxnard, they're doing an Olympic day. So they invited some Olympians and Paralympians, and we've been going to schools and chatting with the kids in the morning, and then we play games in the afternoon. Wow. Yesterday we were dancing. We were learning a dance, hip-hop.

Yeah, it's been fun. It's been a lot of fun. How are you with a hip hop combo? Can you tear it up? Yeah, I do pretty good. I can hold my own. I mean, even at 64, you know? Yeah, the kids were like, you're what? You're 64? I was like, oh my gosh.

You're keeping it tight, sir. Yeah. I do my best. I try hard. Listen, not everyone can say that Mario Lopez played them in a movie. Oh, I know, right? Oh, my God. I mean, I should be so lucky. I told him, I said, yeah, I should look so good. I don't know. We were talking about this the other episode because you've come up multiple times and we were like, breaking the surface of the film, I feel like...

I feel like you'd rather have a somewhat like a Greg Louganis be in that role, you know? Just in terms of wattage and attraction, star factor, all of it. Well, I did the diving. Oh, you did? Yeah, so I have bragging rights to say that I was Mario Lopez's body double. That's something. That's a huge thing.

So, I mean, the Olympics are they're here. I just want to pick your brain a little bit for Olympic Games. You were participating in. I qualified for four Olympic Games, but I only participated in three because we had a boycott. Right. Right. So exactly. So, I mean, just in the course of your career, there were four Olympics happened.

So in terms of the memories that you have, when you think back, like how clear are you? Were you able to soak all that in at the time? And if you could have a favorite moment or a favorite like era of the Olympics that you did, could you speak to that? Well, the only opening ceremonies that I went to was my first one, Montreal. Mm hmm.

because it's like my first Olympics. I mean, you got to do that. But diving generally is at the end. When I was competing, it's at the end of the Olympics. So my concern, I didn't participate in the opening ceremonies in 84 because I knew that

I would probably go to the opening ceremonies, get all hyped up, have an incredible week of workouts. And then the second week when I had to compete, I probably would have been flat.

So I was really protective of my energy, you know, because there were so many expectations that people had of me. And then 88, pretty much the same thing. We were towards the end of the schedule. And so I didn't go to the opening ceremonies. And then the closing ceremonies, I got carded to do a drug test and I was trying to pee in a cup.

So I missed the bus to go to the closing ceremonies because I was trying to pee in a cup. - You know, little things you gotta check off the list, and that peeing in a cup. How many times do you think you've peed in a cup in your life? - Oh my God, oh my God. Too many to really count. Yeah. I mean, I've been drug tested since I was 16. I mean, that was my first Olympics, I was 16. - Wow.

Gosh, I talk about this idea. This is this is what I find really remarkable about you is that, um,

this idea of like separating whatever accomplishment is in those things from the medals and like giving the medals away, like talk about giving the medals away, auctioning them off. Like I find that incredible because I mean, don't you want to keep that trophy around in some mental space? Yeah. You know, I, okay. So getting through the 88 Olympics after I hit my head on the board, I'm not a fighter, you know? And so, um,

who I thought of was Ryan White. Ryan White is a young boy who was a hemophiliac, he contracted HIV through his clotting factor, and he was a fighter. He fought for the right for kids to go to school, kids that were HIV positive. And so he was a fighter. So he was my inspiration. And so that's the reason why I gave that medal to Jeannie White.

His mother. Because Ryan was my inspiration. And then that was, it's at the Children's Museum in Indianapolis because they took his room and made it into a museum. And then in 84, when I broke 700 on 10 meter platform, it was a dream come true competition for me because it was like,

My coach, Ron O'Brien, and I, it was just like a dance. I mean, we were just having fun, playing, you know, joking around, banter. And it was just an incredible experience. And then I broke 700. And so I gave that medal to Ron because it was just a culmination of all the work and love and trust that we had in each other that we did that together.

You know, I'm a firm believer you don't achieve greatness on your own. And so somebody is always there, you know, whether it's a supportive parent or a coach or friend or somebody, you know, somebody is always in your corner. Totally.

So, yeah, I mean, the metals, they didn't sell, you know, because there was a, you know, they had to go for, you know, so much. But the hopes was to provide funding for Damien House because they outgrew the facility that they're in and they provide services to the HIV community in Indianapolis. And so they do incredible work.

So, you know, they're, you know, they need to, you know, they're building out to be able to service more people. So, yeah, I was trying to help them out, but that didn't quite work out. But, you know, I do what I can, you know, to try and help them out. Yeah, but just the concept of that, of, I guess, for lack of a better word, like externalizing your accomplishment, which I know, which we know where you're not taking sole credit for, but that's still pretty incredible. Yeah.

Yeah, but the medals are, it's funny because a lot of people say, oh, put the medals on. And I don't generally put the medals on to get my picture taken because I want to remember what it was when they put it on the first time. When I was on the podium, they put it on. And that's the memory that I want to have. And so I try and stay pretty true to that. And also the medals are just things. Yeah.

The memories and the symbol is what it really is about. Yeah, yeah. I mean, and if they can give pleasure and joy to somebody for whatever reason, you know, Ryan being my inspiration, Ron O'Brien being my coach who was with me by my side through so much, to be able to share that, that brings me joy. Yeah.

Absolutely. I mean, just to hear you even speak about Ryan White, it just kind of just snaps you into the reality that this was such a different world that we were living in. I mean, cellularly on a basic level, like we did not have anywhere near the information, understanding or compassion for people that were HIV positive or experiencing what it means to go through AIDS at that time. Yeah.

To hear yourself characterize yourself as not a fighter, I just want to go back to that for a second because you said you're not a fighter. I think, sir, you are the definition of a fighter and a true legend, not only in sports, but in awareness. And then, you know, like even today, you're up and you're out to change things.

and improve lives and morale and just, you know, the Olympic spirit so lives in you. I want to know why you don't characterize yourself as a fighter. Is it because you think about people at the time and you don't want to take that mantle because that's for people that really suffered or maybe are no longer with us? What is that?

Well, I've always been a performer, you know, because I started doing dance and acrobatics when I was a year and a half and I was performing on stage when I was three. And so I've always been a performer.

I feel, and this is my feeling, I will help somebody beat me. I will tell them how to beat me because the better they do, the better I'm gonna do. And it's all about elevating each other. And that's the way that I see it. We're all being our best selves. If you're helping somebody else to be their best self,

then we're elevating each other where it's not a competition. Right. I don't see it as a competition. I see it as really elevating humanity. So I wonder, does that you say you've always been a performer? Did you throughout your Olympic career think of it as performance and more as more than a competition? Because that's a way I haven't heard an Olympic athlete characterize performance.

their Olympic performance. - You know, it's interesting because like I've talked to quite a few Olympians and you know, medalists, gold medalists and all that. And there are some athletes that are performers. - Yes, yes. - Their focus is on their own performance and that is what spurs them on. There are other athletes that are pure competitors. - Right.

Michael Johnson, I was talking with him, he said, "Yeah, I want the fastest person right next to me so I can kick their butt." And I was like, okay, so that's what drives him. But for me, I always felt that if I look at somebody as my competition, then what I'm doing is I'm limiting the potential that I potentially have. Because chances are, if they miss a dive,

then I'm going to miss that. Yeah. Because I'm using them as a benchmark as my competition.

And so if they are off a little bit, then chances are I'll let up. And I don't want to do that. I want to give the absolute best performance that I can give. I mean, it's like, you know, because my background is in theater and that's what, you know, the directors are always telling you every night there's opening night, you know, because it's new to that audience. Right.

- And you're only as good as your, let's say weakest co-star. - Well, yeah, but, and the thing is, okay, so people would say, well, what was your favorite dive? I didn't have a favorite dive. They all had to be my favorite dive. So in the same vein, you're only as great as your weakest dive, your weakest link in the chain, right?

And so you what you want to do is you want to strengthen that chain, you know, that that you want to strengthen that weak link so that you don't have a weak link. Yeah. I mean, you saying you don't have a favorite dive. I was going to ask, are all your Olympic achievements created equally? But I was thinking about it and like you coming from theater and being a performer, honestly, I

I understand that 88 was a lot of drama because of the head, because of, you know, the moment. So in a way, that has to be your favorite, right? Because you, a performer, you really brought the drama in 88. I mean, you had all of the world being on the edge of their seat like you were Meryl Streep on stage, King.

- You know what, it's so interesting that you brought up 88 and that whole situation. Looking at the big picture, yeah, it was pretty incredible. But I went back because when I was diagnosed six months prior to the Olympic Games, and I went to Anthony Fauci and he wanted to treat me very aggressively, so he made AZT available to me, so I was on AZT right away.

And so I didn't have anybody to talk to about my medications and the side effects and all that stuff. I was literally crawling from my bed in the morning to the bathroom, pouring myself the hottest bath that I could stand, get in there, soak for 20 minutes before I could touch my toes and be able to function. Wow. I thought I was overtraining.

But now looking back, one of the side effects of the AZT was low testosterone. So basically my body was eating itself up because it didn't have the hormones to replenish and rebuild.

And so I watched recently the 88 Olympic games, my performance in the 88 Olympic games, and I could see it, you know, I wasn't jumping as high. I wasn't spinning as fast. And so, yeah, I mean, that was, it was pretty drastic, you know, looking at it through a different lens and with new information. And so, yeah, I mean, I was just,

very very lucky fortunate and um and and and in some ways you know it was ignorance is bliss right i didn't know i didn't know any better so i was just pushing myself and to be you know the best i could be at that moment in time yeah um but man i mean looking at it now it's just like i i

That was crazy. Sure. It was crazy to think that I won two Olympic gold medals on AZT. Yeah. That's insane. While you were in this brain fog. Yeah. I mean, that kind of makes the achievement of it all the more remarkable. Yeah. Before we let you go, we want to ask you, you seem like someone who's always...

looking for the next big challenge in life. What is the next big thing for Greg? - Oh gosh, next big thing for me, well I also train dogs. - Yes. - So I've got a little Hungarian Pumi who's very talented and so my hopes for him is to make world team. - Yes. - So we're in training for that. So that's probably the next big thing. And also, you know,

Family. I'm adopted. And so both my parents who raised me are no longer on this plane anymore.

But my biological father, I've struck up a relationship with that. And so learning family, relearning what family means to me. - Wow. - So it's really, really fascinating. I've got a brother and two sisters in Hawaii. And so, yeah.

more discovery about family. Beautiful. That's incredible. It's just such an honor to talk to you for even a short amount of time. We could do it for four more hours, but I know you got some lucky students to go talk to. So,

Thank you so much, Greg. I mean, if we might say you are definitely a fighter and I mean, just to see you out there still inspiring is inspiring in its own right. So thank you so much for giving us your time today. Hopefully we can connect and face to face. I hope so. Yeah. Where are you guys? Where are you?

So I'm in Los Angeles. Bowen famously is in New York. I'm in New York. But yes. Oh, OK. We go back and forth. OK. Well, yeah, we'll connect. We'll connect. Definitely. Must. Stay in touch. Absolutely. Sure. Thanks so much, Greg. My pleasure. Well, Matt, that was just delightful. What a real honor to talk to him. Even through Zoom, it kind of just...

It exudes. It comes through. Like, technology is nothing. It's like it transcends all. It really, I mean, talk about the star quality. I mean, it's really, and it also seems like we're going to be hanging out with him at some point. So I just know he jams out in person. Absolutely. What an incredible human being. Someone who I think probably has like the right mindset about the Olympic Games throughout the entire season.

like sort of span of it, like leading up to his games, his three Olympics, doing the actual thing. And then, um,

In the sort of like post Olympics life that a lot of these Olympians lead, I feel like he set such a wonderful example. Absolutely. I mean, and he has accomplished so much since then and lived so much life since then. There was a few things I wanted to talk to him about, which I didn't get to, such as having an iconic Greek last name, but not being Greek yourself. Because Louganis, that's not just a Greek last name. That is a very Greek last name and adopted.

So, I mean, just the amount of people who probably come up to him and say, Yosses, he probably gets probably a lot of emotional overwhelm. Sure, sure. And worst of all, olive-toned skin. And so, of course, people just like even visually just kind of identify that with him. You couldn't have told me he wasn't Greek. Right. But now I'm telling you he's not. He's not. And, you know, the thing that inspired him to...

put his medals up for auction was Marie Kondo. So...

Another W for Marie kind of influencing the original influencer. Not the original, but you know what I mean. I mean, talking about OG influencers, you know, famous COVID influencer Fauci, Anthony Fauci coming into the mix in the late 80s. Giving him AZT. One of the first people to get AZT. The fact that he was literally suffering through those 88 games and he still wins gold.

pretty incredible. And to not call himself a fighter or not identify as one that I'll tell you what that really is right there. That's true humility. You can tell he's really feels in service, not only to the people watching, but to the people alongside him. And that was really inspiring to to hear him talk about how it's only worth winning if you're going up against the best.

which I've always agreed with. But, you know, you watch the traitors now and it's like they want to knock the good people out so they can get to the end. That's not Olympics. No, Greg Louganis would be terrible on the traitors. He would not be good at the traitors at all. He'd be a terrible traitor. He's too kind. He's too sweet.

And we just saw that firsthand. You guys, the Olympics are underway. You can listen to our episodes, which are flying freely, coming at you. Two Guys Five brings us the podcast. We thank you so much for listening, as always. Isn't that right, bro? I'm so thankful. And thank you for speaking on my behalf. And thank God.

It was the truth. Follow the show on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Music, or your favorite podcast platform, and watch and listen to every moment of the 2024 Paris Olympic Games, July 26th through August 11th, on NBC and Peacock, and for the first time ever on the iHeartRadio app. Do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-