Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
First Person is produced in cooperation with the Far East Broadcasting Company, who rejoice in the stories of changed lives through the power of Jesus Christ. Learn more at febc.org. I thank the Lord that I was able to be impacted by somebody like Prof. Hendricks. Here's Howard, and he seemed to be okay leaning into these students and mentoring them, and better than that, they wanted him to.
You heard two voices just now because two separate guests will join us here on First Person to talk about mentoring and the legacy of Dr. Howard Hendricks. We'll hear from both author Mayna Mora and Joe Stoll as you stay with us. Welcome, I'm Wayne Shepherd. Thanks for joining us on radio, podcast, and online at FirstPersonInterview.com.
Few people have had the impact that the late Dr. Howard Hendricks had on a whole generation of Christian leaders. Prof, as he was known at Dallas Theological Seminary, mentored leaders like Tony Evans, Chip Ingram, Joe Stoll, and many others. He overcame a difficult childhood and depression himself to be used by God in amazing ways. Our first guest today, Mayna Mora, is the author of The Influential Mentor, looking at the life and ministry of Howard Hendricks through interviews with many, including Jean Getz and Mrs. Jean Hendricks.
Later, Dr. Joe Stoll will share his own reflections on the experience of being taught by Dr. Hendricks. First, journalist and author Mena Mora on what led him to write about Prof. I got to tell you, I did not walk into this project going, man, I've got to write a book, Wayne. Literally, I was on my way to the pool with my daughter. Huh.
And a guy named, who you and I both know, Dr. Gene Getz was on the phone. Man. So we were during, it was during COVID. And so, you know, back in those days, you had to have a time that you were invited to the pool here at our, in our neighborhood. And so my daughter kept going, we've got to go daddy. Cause we got to go to the pool. I had Dr. Gene Getz on the phone with me going, okay,
have you thought about writing about this book? You should write a story about Howard Hendricks. And it immediately took me back to a season of my life, Wayne, that was birthed out of brokenness, to be honest with you. And I can remember going and read some of his work during that season. And I think Gene Getz could be onto something. Mm-hmm.
And that's how it all started. Yeah. Well, when Gene encourages you to do something, very often it sounds like the voice of the Lord, doesn't it? It sounds like the voice of the Lord, Wayne. At the same time, you also know that he's coming back around to this.
Yeah, it's a matter of just when and where. Yeah, yeah, exactly. He's coming back. Exactly. Well, how did you go about, you never met Dr. Hendricks? Never met him. I only heard him preach one time. And so it was one of those things where I think oftentimes when the Lord wants us to do something, Wayne, that he gives us these crumbs along the way.
if that makes sense to get us to that moment. And that's what happened in my own personal life. I'll tell you two quick stories, Wayne, hopefully this won't be too, we'll take up too, too much time on your show. But when I decided to jump into this world of journalism, which is pretty much what I always, you know, I'd always done ministry for two decades. So when the Lord called me to this, to being a journalist, I,
For three years, it was painful, Wayne. I mean, I didn't know the field, didn't know what I was doing, still don't know to a certain degree maybe. But then I definitely didn't know. And so I took two odd jobs, Wayne. One of them was selling books, and the other one was working for Walk Through the Bible. So those were my claim to fame for three years. Sure.
And so, long story short, when I would go pick up used books, oftentimes I would go to different bookstores, man. So I walked into a bookstore. I saw Howard's first book, man. I had it here on my desk recently.
I saw his first book and I picked it up, put it on the shelf, man. And here it is right here. Say it with love. Oh, yeah. So I put it on the shelf, didn't think much of it after I read it. And then I have to go and pick up my check from walk through the Bible on Thursdays, man. And so I would go to their office and in their office.
lobby area, it's all this Howard Hendricks stuff. And so while they were getting the check, Wayne, I would go and look over the book. I couldn't afford the book. I would go and just read some of his work. And so all along the way, the Lord was
building things up to go, we're going to come back to this moment. And so whether it was working for a walk through the Bible, then working for promise keepers, and then, you know, then selling books, they were, they were all Howard Hendricks connections. And I didn't know at the time, but the Lord was using Howard to mentor me. Yeah.
And mentoring is a huge interest to you, isn't it? You've written before on other mentors. Talk about him as a mentor. Of course, he taught for how many years at Dallas Theological Seminary and influenced people like Chip Ingram and Crawford Loritz and Tony Evans and a long list of people that we admire so much today. But talk about his career.
Yeah, Wayne, I'm fascinated by the topic of mentorship. And so the Lord put that in, I would say, amongst the breadcrumbs during that season also, because mentors, you know, the Lord used mentors to get me through that. And so when the Lord brought Howard, you
you know, to my space, it was one of those things that it was the right time, right place, Wayne. Um, you know, he was this dynamic teacher at the theological seminary. It didn't start off that way. Um, the first few years that they didn't like him, um, they thought, you know, who is this guy? His teaching methods don't seem to add up. They did not think he was that deep to be honest with you. Um,
But the students loved him. And so he was mentoring these great guys from...
you know, as you just said, Tony Evans to Robert Jeffers to Andy Stanley, and the list goes on and on and they're all uniquely different. And so I was definitely drawn into the, how was he able to mentor, you know, these different people, man, who, when, when we mentioned their names in any circles, Wayne, let's just be honest, people are going to either go, we love them or we despise them. You know, I will explain in this, to this day and age,
But here's Howard, and he seemed to be okay, lean into these students and mentoring them. And better than that, they wanted him to at the same time. It was one of those things where it was a for such a time as this moment, man, I believe. God called him to DTS.
for that moment. He was known as Prof, affectionately known as Prof, and had just a tremendous ministry. But you decided to get to know him by interviewing different people, including Gene, his wife.
I did. Talk about that. I would tell anyone, Wayne, any husband, you never know who may come back to write about you. So treat your wife well. There would not be a book without Mrs. Hendricks. I just want to be very clear on that.
I guess we could have gotten through it a little bit, maybe way, but we could have gotten through this the way that we did without her. And she really was the one who was doing the real ministry in the house, to be honest with you. There's no Howard Hendricks without Mrs. Hendricks. And so it was one of those things where.
I got the privilege, Wayne, to spend time with her every week, lean into these stories, many of them that we didn't even put in the book, but finding out who he was, what he was all about. I do know, Wayne, when I get to heaven, he's probably going to call up me and his wife and go, I told you I did not want a book. But, but,
I really believe that the Lord placed her, placed her in his life, man, to do the type of ministry that he was allowed to do for God. In your conversations with her, what did she share with you that surprised you about Howard Hendricks? You know, I was surprised of just how authentic she was, Wayne. And so to me, that was the like,
ah, type moments of she loved him, but she also knew him way at the same time. And so one of the things was how he parented. Now, here's where she and I respectfully would disagree, Wayne, but she's the wife and the mother. So I take her word at this. She would say that he struggled with
to be a father. And when you look at his background, he didn't know what one looked like. I mean, both of his parents were not involved in his life at all. He overhears his mom say to a group of friends and family, I didn't want him. His grandmother was all that he had. But yet and still, when you look at
his three kids, they're all serving in ministry. And like the son leads our Hendricks center on DTS campus. So although Mrs. Hendricks would say, and she would win this argument that he struggled in that area, uh,
I love how the Lord takes our weakness, Wayne. Exactly. Strong. Yeah. I was thinking the exact same thing, my energy. He was so strong on, on, on real family relationships and family ministry and taught his students to,
not only how to do it, but how to live at home as well. So you're absolutely right about that. And the Lord used him in his students' lives, I believe, to teach them how to say no, because many of these people would end up being great pastors and great leaders. And of course, you know, this is like, Wayne, for yourself, people are asking you to do so many things throughout the day. And yet and still,
he could say no to as well, man. And so that was fascinating to me, how the Lord used that weak area for his glory. What are some of the other things that, as you learned through talking with people like Gene Getz and Mrs. Hendricks and the others that you spoke with, what are some of the other things you learned about him that influence how we live and follow Christ today?
Yeah, one of the things I'll never forget, there's so many great stories, Wayne. So it's almost like if you ask that same question tomorrow, I may have another one. Okay, all right. I just want to be clear on that because it was almost like, Wayne, asking someone, who's your favorite child? Yeah, I understand. Right, okay.
You'll have to read the book. I get it. For today, Wade, I will go with, and my wife laughs at me with this one because she goes, you're always changing that answer. And I go, no. But for today, Wade, I will go with, he was a door opener fan. You know, he could have been a household name. Andy Stanley is the one who told me that. And he's correct.
He could have been, Wayne, to be fair. But he lived out being this seminary professor, not making a whole lot of money. You know, he's in a classroom for 15 years. I mean, it's kind of one of those things where you say to yourself, OK, who would write a book about somebody like that, Wayne? And so here he was as a door opener, man. And that to me was just impressive, Wayne.
One story, the student comes to the seminary at a unique time in American history. Thankfully, things have changed.
And the seminary didn't want to let him in based on his race. And so Howard is frustrated with this. I mean, he literally goes home, Wayne, and says they've got to let him in. And this is Hendricks. When she's telling this story, it's like it's really intense. I'm leaning on the phone. And it's one of those deals where he kept at it going, we've got to let this student in like Tony deserves.
to get in. And then that Tony, by the way, is Dr. Tony Evans. And he ends up telling that story in the book of how he does not know where he would be without Howard Hendricks. And then Howard does the unthinkable. I think he's sinned here, to be honest with you. And he opened up the door for Tony to be the chaplain of the Dallas Cowboys, one of the worst teams ever. And so it's one of those things where there are pros and cons to Howard.
Well, there's much more about the life of Dr. Hendricks and the power of mentoring, which is a theme of this book as well, written by Mina Mora. And Mina, thank you for putting this together for us. There's so much more we could talk about, but it's in the book. And I urge our listeners to check it out. We'll put the information about the book in the program notes. Thank you so much, Wayne. This is fun, man. I appreciate it. And don't go anywhere. Dr. Joe Stoll will join us.
He was once a student of Dr. Howard Hendricks. He'll share his experiences. ♪
Hi, I'm Ed Cannon. And as you know, situations around the world are changing quickly. Stay current with FEBC's ministry and get a deeper understanding of people who need to find hope. Hear how you can feel the pulse of God's Spirit moving through the hearts of believers dedicated to reaching the lost. Be sure you join me for the podcast until all have heard. Discover how the gospel is making a difference around the world.
Search for Until All Have Heard on your favorite podcast platform or hear it online at febc.org. Talking about the life and legacy of Dr. Howard Hendricks today on First Person, I'm joined now by Dr. Joe Stoll. Howard Hendricks was somebody very important to you, Joe, right?
Absolutely. I'm so glad that you're doing this legacy program so well-deserved. And maybe those of us listening will just pick up a little bit of his torch and carry it into our generations because he was unique. He was compelling. He was inspiring. He was convicting in all the good ways at times. And he was a friend. You know, he was like, he was...
The way he was in the classroom, and that's where I knew him from, from Dallas Seminary. In fact, one of the reasons I went to Dallas was because it had profs like Prof Hendricks. And, you know, the way he was in the classroom is the same way he was...
On the street, when you met him, we were in his home periodically. He was just, he was the total package, which is so rare today, you know. Actually, I met him before I went to Dallas, Wayne. My dad was a pastor in New Jersey, and back in the day, Howard Hendricks was the leading Christian expert in terms of Sunday schools and Christian education and local church work.
So I was a relatively small kid, and my dad had him come and do seminars for our Sunday school teachers. I can still remember meeting him in the hallway of the education building because my dad had told me so much about him. And he was wearing his iconic bow tie, and he paid attention to me. You know, I remember we had a little chat. Oh, that means a lot to a kid, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, it does. And it says a lot about him, right? You know, he was never too big or too busy for little people. And so anyway, he taught me, Wayne, to love the Bible. I mean, I always think I like the Bible, right? I grew up in a Christian home. My dad was a pastor. I heard a lot about the Bible. I heard a lot of Bible stuff. But so I was certainly friendly toward the Bible.
But he taught me to love the Bible. He would say often in class, the greatest sin is to bore people with the Bible. And the way he taught us in class on how to study the Bible, how to draw principles out of the Bible that were preachable and applicable to our own lives. And I should say, when I think of his profile, he was very relevant.
applicationally very relevant. I mean, you wouldn't listen to him without having the Holy Spirit say, you know, get a life on this one. And so, and so he was, his highest compliment, I think, was how many of us ended up admiring him so much that we gestured like he gestured, we talked like he talked, and
you know you can tell a you know a protege of Howie Hendrix because it's kind of like a little Howie Hendrix and people would say to me sometimes you know hey Joe you remind me of Howie Hendrix and that would be like thank you yes that would be my best compliment and compliment to him that we all all so admired him that we ended up being like him I'm glad you mentioned that because I remember that I remember hearing you preach through the years and I thought well that that certainly reflects uh
mentor in his life. That's really fun to think about, Joe. I should mention that we caught you on the go. You're actually at Word of Life in Scroon, New York, right? Yeah, Scroon Lake, New York, in the beautiful Adirondack Mountains, and up here doing a conference. And Howie was up here many times. He was one of the leading favorite speakers that would come up here in the day, and
And I think we also have to recognize that his wife, Jean, played a very important role. Yes, she did. I mean, she was a wonderful person, an author in her own right, an effective speaker in her own right. But there's no doubt about the fact that Jean had a phenomenal impact on Prof and also in her own right.
The prophet always liked to tell the story of how he came to know Christ. He grew up in kind of a difficult area, and one morning, if I remember the story correctly, this probably isn't gospel truth, but it's close, that somebody came along, some guy came along, maybe it was the neighbor, invited him to Sunday school. His parents weren't Christians. They didn't go to church.
And that was the beginning. Somebody came and took him to Sunday school. And I often thought, you know, we don't know, but the little things we do, how huge an impact they have, you know, for this guy, whoever it was.
Take Howie to Sunday school and then think of the results long-term, Wayne, of the impact. Howie has impacted generation upon generation upon generation, all because one guy was faithful to this little kid sitting on his front porch wondering if he'd go to Sunday school with him.
That has reverberations of Henry Varley and D.L. Moody, doesn't it? Yeah, it does, exactly. And I think that it's an important lesson for all of us. You know, just routine faithfulness often delivers phenomenal exponential results. Yeah, yeah.
One of my memories of Dr. Hendricks was back in the Promise Keeper era when you were often a speaker at one of those events, those big stadium events, and he was often a speaker as well. And I remember being in the Kingdome in Seattle with Dr. Hendricks, and as you speakers often did, you came up to the broadcast booth and would sort of co-anchor with me as the day went on after your speaking assignment was over.
And Dr. Hendricks was with me when they called for all the pastors in attendance in the kingdom to come forward, to be encouraged and be prayed for. And I remember seeing these rivers of men streaming down the aisles of the kingdom. And I very vividly remember, and Gene was sitting there as well, Dr. Hendricks and his wife,
And I remember seeing the tears streaming down his face to see those pastors come forward to be encouraged. He loved those men. Yeah, absolutely. And that's another thing in the profile. A man with a tender heart. You know, he was never jaded or calloused. He always had a tender heart. And, you know, I just wish that...
There were more Howard Hendricks today leading the body of Christ. God knows what's best, and I'm sure there are ways. But he was so large in terms of impact and effectiveness, and it grew out of his character. As a man of character, it just showed. So I'm not surprised to hear that tear story. Isn't it interesting that God placed him in a place where he would—
impact the lives of so many who would spread out across the kingdom. Yeah, across globally, globally. And, you know, I think how he's so deeply transformed and rubbed off on all of us, and now we've rubbed off on others, and we rub off on people who then take it into their generation. Like I said a little earlier, I think the impact of Howard Hendricks is multi-generational. It'll be interesting when we get home, when the books are open, Wayne,
And the story is told of the faithfulness of Prof. Hendricks. It'll be exponentially, it'd be huge. You know, just how God used one man to
By the way, I should add that he was a very humble man. He was quiet, he was pushy. When you walked into the room, he never sucked all the air out of it. But he was just genuine and humble. I can't find enough words to explain exactly what a very special person he was. I thank the Lord that for some reason, best known to the Lord, I was able...
to be impacted by somebody like Prof. Hendricks. My thanks to Joe Stoll for joining us on First Person to talk about an important mentor in his life. And thanks to Mena Mora for leading us to the topic with his book, The Influential Mentor, The Life and Legacy of Dr. Howard Hendricks. You'll find a link to the book at firstpersoninterview.com, as well as the archived version of today's conversation to listen to again or share with others, firstpersoninterview.com.
These first-person interviews are made possible by the Far East Broadcasting Company for the purpose of celebrating lives that are lived in service for Jesus Christ and His Kingdom. FEBC is part of that story as well through its many indigenous radio and online programs around the world. Be sure to check out the podcast, Until All Have Heard, hosted by Ed Cannon, president of FEBC. It can be found at febc.org or wherever you get your podcasts.
Now, with thanks to my friend and producer, Joe Carlson, I'm Wayne Shepherd. Join us next time for First Person.