Dave Carl
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First Person is produced in cooperation with the Far East Broadcasting Company, who rejoice in the stories of changed lives through the power of Jesus Christ. Learn more at febc.org. How can we make things of God easy enough to understand and absorb into our souls? Because that's the purpose. We're supposed to become more like Christ, not just know bigger words.

He creates storytelling programs for kids that don't require screen time, but rely on a child's imagination while teaching biblical truth. Coming up on First Person, you'll meet Dave Carl, the creator of Paws and Tails. Welcome to this week's conversation. I'm Wayne Shepherd.

Thanks for listening. These first-person interviews are for the purpose of meeting people who are serving Jesus Christ with their life, and they encourage our faith through the telling of their story. You can go back in our archive and listen to any past programs by visiting FirstPersonInterview.com or use the smartphone app available free in your app store.

Dave Carl works at Insight for Living, the radio ministry of Dr. Chuck Swindoll. But he's creating a radio for kids that is both fun and biblically based called Paws and Tails. It supports parents in introducing God's love to children in a way that makes sense to young minds. Dave joined me recently online, and I began by asking him to tell us about Paws and Tails, including how it came about in the first place. Yeah, I've been working with Insight for Living since, gosh, I think 1998, I think.

And there was a day, Chuck's eldest son, Kurt Swindoll, was COO at the time and a good friend of mine. We had done many creative projects together on the side. And Kurt came down and said, I just had a meeting with Chuck. He called his dad Chuck. And Chuck's wanting something new. And so he came down to me.

And he said, it needs to be radio. This was back in the late 90s. But he wants something new, which was rather unusual because Insight for Living was about his sermons exclusively. That's kind of a blank slate for you, isn't it? It was a little startling. And I'm not the sharpest pencil in the knife drawer, but I knew this was an opportunity. And

I pulled some guys together, and I knew just enough to know that you don't come with one idea to a meeting like that. So I had seven really terrible ideas and about two that were reasonable. Well, Chuck had written a book in the, oh, gosh, probably in the 80s.

called Papa Chuck's Big Ideas from the Bible. And it was his only children's book. And it was kind of a love letter to his grandchildren, his young grandchildren at the time. And they were characters in it. And they were all bears. So it was kind of like Chuck in a bear suit. I mean, he had his square glasses from the 80s and his hairdo was all the same, but he was a bear. Yeah.

And it was very successful in and of its own, right? And he was never going to do another one. It was just a gift kind of to his grandkids. And I thought, my goodness, if I start with Papa Chuck, that's going to turn a lot of green lights on in the company. So...

Now, I didn't want it to be Chuck, and I didn't want to have his grandchildren, because at that time they were teenagers already. So I just kind of took that seed, that Papa Chuck character, and built a world around him. And there is a group of kids in it that are not his grandkids. They're just kids in the town. And so we created a world. And the purpose of this was not just to have safe places

It's insight for living, for Pete's sake. So we work very hard to entertain kids and parents while we're teaching them, ideally in ways that they're not even aware of. It's just coming through. It's osmosis. It's part of the story. We don't stop the story and do a little research.

Bible lesson. We want to weave it throughout. So it's created really for kids, and I always say, and their parents, because I know parents are within your shot. And I don't want them to be pulling their hair out because it's so silly or so childish. So there's stuff in there for adults that the kids are probably not going to fully get the joke, but this is

We're really trying to do some heavy lifting. Yeah. Some teaching and some creating of affections for the things of God and scripture and the entertainment. The arts are magnificent tools for that purpose. And...

So that's kind of what Paws and Tails is. Yeah, and by the way, Paws is P-A-W-S, Paws. Paws, yes. And Tails, T-A-I-L-S, Paws and Tails. It's radio, so you have to spell these things out. Exactly, exactly. Thank you for doing that. And Pawpaw Chuck is P-A-W Chuck. Yes. Pawpaw Chuck. Okay. All right. It's so much fun. It really is. Why radio drama for kids, though? What have you found to be true? Well, at the time, Insight for Living –

and still is, is an audio product. That's what the ministry was built around in the late 90s. So that was kind of an unexpected, that's our wheelhouse. Also, the cost per episode of an animation is actually coming down because technology is so good these days, but it is still exponentially higher than an audio only product.

And today with podcasts as well as radio and all of the variable ways to get audio, it's cool again. So it's like the golden age of radio right now. And we've gotten letters from parents basically saying, please do not give us more screen time.

My kid is looking at that thing way too much already. Please keep this as an audio product that we can listen to at bedtime or in the car. And so it just kind of is in our DNA. And it's just an interesting genre. It uses a different part of your brain than watching. It's a little more active.

For the listener, they have to create pictures in their own head. And it's just really it's just part of the insight for living DNA. Yeah. Now, how long have you been producing Paws and Tails? The first episodes, the first two were created and I believe 1999. And we had our run. We created 69 episodes in about four or five years.

And then we just stopped production and went on to other things. It's been 18 years since we made our last episode. And this last year, Insight for Living asked me to create four new episodes. So we're relaunching. We've got these, and they'll be coming out in probably the first quarter of 2024. Okay.

And so it was so fun to get the band back together because it's been 18 years. And most of the main players were available and excited. And it was like getting the band back together. It was just a joy. So, yes, we have four new episodes coming out. And you produce these for radio. Are they available off radio?

They are. They're on Apple, iTunes and Spotify and all of the ways that you would get your audio. Okay. They're there. And pauseandtales.org is our website and you can certainly listen there. Wonderful. And we will link that, of course, in our program notes at firstpersoninterview.com.

I'm excited to hear about this relaunch. I really am. And we'll talk more about the biblical lesson that's being taught here. Tell me more about the setting that you've created, though. I think you call it Wildwood, right? The town of Wildwood, yes. When we were kind of, as you had used, a blank canvas. I mean, we could have done anything and gone any direction. And I was...

At the time, thinking of, and I mean no disrespect, but the Brady Bunch is locked in the 70s. I mean, it was purposeful. It was really cool at the time. You look at it, you watch it now, and you kind of smile, and wow, those bell bottoms are gigantic. It's kind of kitschy now. It's just so 70s. And I didn't want to do that. So I put it back in time, in a time that would not change and not look...

So, and we never really say it in the episode, but since it's just you and I talking here, it's like 1910-ish. Okay. And so the technology doesn't change. There's no devices. There's, you know, there's, Popachuk does drive an old Model T kind of truck and it breaks

Breaks down because it's – so there is some technology, but I didn't want the technology to interfere with the storytelling. I see. Okay. Now, we know Pawpaw Chuck is in this. Who are some of the other characters? Well, we have The Club. It's a group of third graders, and there's CJ, who's –

Well, there's CJ, who's a boy, grizzly cub, and Stacy, a brown bear cub. Goose, her actual name is Pinky Gone Goozler, and she's a weasel, and she's our comic relief. I don't know how you come up with all these. I really don't. And then there's Ned the Beaver, who is kind of our cynic character, and then Marsha, who is a young moose girl.

who is all legs and arms and tends to knock things over accidentally. And they constitute the club, but they cannot come together and agree on a name for this club. So it continues to simply be called the club because they can't,

They can't all agree on a better name. Well, some of our listeners right now know all these characters because they hear these on radio and they've listened on web and podcasts and so on. But for many listeners, they don't know about this group. So when we come back in a moment, I would like to sample a little bit of Paws and Tails.

And we'll get to hear a little bit just to let you know what it's like. I think that'd be okay with you, Dave. Is that right? I can't wait. Thank you. So we will get to that in just a moment. As you continue listening, our guest today is Dave Carl here on First Person.

Here's Ed Cannon on a vision for FEBC's weekly podcast. The primary purpose of Until All Have Heard, of course, is to share the experience that FEBC has because we have staff on the ground in so many oppressive places. But in addition to that, we're trying to speak to you in a way that only the kind of testimonies you'll hear from around the globe can do. Discover how the gospel is making a difference around the world.

Search for Until All Have Heard on your favorite podcast platform or hear it online at febc.org. My guest is Dave Carl. Dave is, well, what are you? Are you the executive producer? What are you of Paws and Tails, Dave? Well, around here, they just call me Kathy Carl's husband, but I'm the creator of Paws and Tails. Okay.

All right. Chief writer and director and floor sweeper and all this stuff. We'll go with that then. Whatever you say, Dave. All right. Well, I'd like to sample a little bit of what this program is about. We'll talk more about the purpose and what's being accomplished with Paws and Tails. But let's listen. First of all, you provided me a couple of clips here. This first one is called The Princess. Now, set the context for us here, if you would. Yeah. Stacy of...

is dealing with prayer. So when you're trying to talk to third graders about prayer, you can do it pretty easily in such a way that bores them to tears and makes them get up and walk out of their room. So we created an entire episode around prayer because this is confusing. There's a lot there and a lot of misconceptions. So Stacy prayed for something and it happened. And she thought, I got it. I think we can take care of most things in town now.

And then she prayed for something else, and it didn't go the way that she wanted. And so she has a dream sequence where she is going into the throne room of her father, God, her heavenly father, who's king, and she has a conversation with God. The princess, Stacey! How are you, sweetheart?

Now, what's on your mind? Tell me. Sir, King, Dad, please let Goose get an A on her spelling test. You could make the D-minus a mistake and have it changed. I told her I would talk to you about it. She would be so happy, and she'd be able to go on the camp out. Well, no, I'm not going to do that. Why? You're the king. You can do anything you want. But you see, I don't want to give Goose an A.

Don't you like Goose? Oh, yes. I love Goose more than you could ever imagine. That's why I will not give her an A. There are reasons, some of which you would understand, and many that you would not. But she won't be allowed... You must remember that I am your father. I will not allow something to happen to any of my children that is not the best for them. I will not answer your request like you've asked me to, but because you've asked...

I will answer it another way. You just need to trust me. I'm your father. I'm your father. So the premise of this is most adults walking around, going to church every Sunday, they misunderstand prayer. So one of the goals of Paws and Tails is if we can get to kids and give them, there's actually quite a bit of theology in that minute and a half. Mm-hmm.

Some of which is you can't figure out the hack to prayer. And people do try to do that. I found a little booklet in a grocery store one time. I bought it and I have it in my file somewhere. Prayers that have worked. And it was a tiny little grocery store. And I thought, oh my goodness. This is what people...

are commonly thinking about prayer as though if you stand on one foot and face the east or something, then it'll work. But more complicated and more comforting is that God is our loving Heavenly Father.

who will not be manipulated because we did it right or refuse us because we did it wrong. We actually, we have Jesus and the Holy Spirit listening to our, you know, less than ideal prayers, and they're correcting them. They're praying them to the Father.

And the things that we should have prayed for had we understood everything that we needed to. So prayer is more, much more about relationship with God than getting the Xbox that I want or the, you know, the stuff. So being able to trust that God deeply loves me is the foundation for prayer, not faith.

figuring out a hack to get what I want. And I see how you're reaching kids with that truth, but at the same time, you're kind of talking to the parent in the background and teaching them how to teach these things to their kids. That is our goal. This is a favorite episode of mine because of that very thing. It's most Christians walking around have things in their head about prayer that are just

that they picked up from a country music or some, you know, it's just wrong information. And to be able to instruct kids early with the correct theology in an entertaining and fun way that they can absorb, they don't even know that they just got a theology lesson.

But they would walk away going, oh, well, God loves me and he's going to do what's best even if it's not what I want. That's a lot of biblical theology right there. So this is a good example of what we are trying to do with Paws and Toes. We'll talk more about that in a moment, but I do want to play one more clip from a production. This clip is called Goliath, Pawpaw Chuck's Roar. You want to set this one up for us?

Yeah, this is a backstory. Papa Chuck is this delightful grandfatherly character in Wildwood and his wife Nana Cindy. And he's kind of the favorite of the club. They go to him with their troubles and perplexities. And he is the wise person in town who lets them into his shop and spends time. And he's preparing them. He's purposefully preparing them for what's ahead.

And we went into his backstory because he wasn't always the sweet, grandfatherly type. And so this is the first, there's a short series of, I believe, five episodes that complete his backstory. And this is the first of those episodes. Okay. Well, let's listen. CJ, Ned, let's go.

When I hold it in place, you slide a pin in the hinges. Bottom one first. I got it. CJ, done. Woo-hoo! All right. We just finished a fortress here. Let me hear it. Yay! This is a victory. We need to roar. Roar!

Whoa, I felt that in my bones. I've never heard anything like that in my life. So this is Popachuk's victory roar. Well, down in the valley is a little family that's heading to the port to sail back home. And they hear this roar echoing through Wildwood. And the grandfather of that little group,

was a bandit back in the early days. And he recognizes this roar as belonging to the fierce Goliath. And he was terrified by it. And in the next, the next morning, they all go to church and he sees Papa Chuck and knows that this is the, the fierce and violent Goliath from the early days. And, and,

he runs his family out of the church and they, and the kids are all standing there wondering what's happening. How could anybody be afraid of Papa Chuck? And so then he is, it is time for him as, as is true of most of us as parents and grandparents, there comes a time when we do need to tell kids more about us than we would like because it's a part of our story. And, uh,

And so there are several episodes that follow this episode of Goliath to explain all of that. Should have asked this earlier, but do you have an age bracket that you're shooting for? I met with Phil Lawler when I was beginning to write all of this because he was a ninja of storytelling in an audio world. He is. From Odyssey and other things. And he said, if you write for boys, girls will listen. If you write for girls, boys won't listen. Interesting.

So in my mind, I have always thought of a third grade boy and the kinds of things that are funny and fun. And most elementary girls, you know, like that stuff too. But I always try to say this is written for kids and parents.

Yes.

Well, I've never quite gotten over that. I keep waiting for some grown-up to show up and say, you can't be doing this anymore. But he has been just, he and Cynthia both have just supported this project and encouraged us. And it's just been remarkable, the freedom and the encouragement that they have provided for this project. So I'm just constantly aghast.

Our guest has been Dave Carl of Insight for Living, the creator and executive producer of Paws and Tails for Children. In addition to being a radio program, Paws and Tails is also available online as a podcast and we'll place a link to his website at firstpersoninterview.com. Both parents and grandparents will want to check this out for the kids in your life.

First Person also comes to you weekly as a radio program and podcast. You can listen anytime through Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or any number of podcast platforms. Just search for First Person with Wayne Shepard.

and a very special thank you to the Far East Broadcasting Company for support in bringing this program to you. Please say thank you by visiting febc.org and learning how his radio programs, spoken in the local language of each country, is reaching millions of people each day. That's febc.org. Now, with thanks to my friend and producer, Joe Carlson, I'm Wayne Shepherd. Thanks for listening to First Person. ♪