Deep Dive
Shownotes Transcript
First Person is produced in cooperation with the Far East Broadcasting Company, who rejoice in the stories of changed lives through the power of Jesus Christ. Learn more at febc.org. What you want to do in your heart is begin gravitating toward pouring into the generations before you and prepare them for a time that you cannot see. And that's kind of where I am right now, and that's what's driving Beyond Our Generation.
He has been a spiritual teacher and mentor to many through the years. You'll meet Crawford Loritz on this edition of First Person. Welcome to this week's program. I'm Wayne Shepherd.
I appreciate the time you spend listening to our interviews. We strive to introduce you to people who, after giving their life over to Christ and His kingdom, are making a difference by serving. As I often say, sometimes you'll recognize their names and sometimes you won't, but each person has a story to tell of God's faithfulness as they trust Him. You can learn more about us at FirstPersonInterview.com. As long as I've known him, Crawford Loritz has been about leaving a spiritual legacy to those who follow us in this journey of faith.
He's been a pastor, teacher for many years, served on the board of crew, pointing the next generation to their future of service to Christ. So I contacted Crawford online recently to talk about his own development as a leader and what he has to say to this generation.
As we began, I mentioned that we have been friends for a very long time. So grateful to God for you. You were part of the reason why I got involved with radio to begin with. And so thank you, my friend. I'm happy that you're pleased with that decision. I really am.
I really am. I really am. Yeah, well, it's been too long since we've spoken, so I really wanted to bring you to our first-person listeners today. And I know you stepped down from the pastorate, but it doesn't seem like your life has slowed down at all.
No, no, it hasn't. And in some regards, it's really picked up. I retired as senior pastor of Fellowship Bible Church. I pastored there for 15 years, almost 16 years, and retired on Easter Sunday. 2021 was my last Sunday. And one of the reasons why I stepped down was that I hadn't lost any vision or any passion for the church or anything like that.
But I actually felt like, A, the church needed a younger leader. And my elders tried to talk me out of that, but I felt very strongly along those lines. But then secondly, you know, there was some things in my heart that I felt God wanted me to pursue and do while I still had, you know, good health and energy and that kind of thing. And
And not the least of which, the primary thing is pouring into the next generation of leaders, being a cheerleader for them and putting wind in their sails. People did that for me, Wayne. They saw things in my life that I did not see. And so that's what I'm doing now. A lot of traveling, a lot of speaking, a lot of writing. Wonderful. You call it Beyond Our Generation. And we'll put information in our program notes there.
about that and an updated version of your book, Leadership as an Identity. All of that information will be in the program notes at firstpersoninterview.com. I want to talk to you about calling and that early calling that you had in your life. Beginning with your upbringing, I recall fondly you talking about your parents and what wonderful people they were, especially your dad and the lessons that your dad taught you. And I don't know, did you...
At the time you were being taught those lessons, did they resonate with you the way they do now? Oh, absolutely not. You're a dad. You know how that works, right? We get smarter as we get older. The kids get smarter. We get smarter as the kids get older. Yeah, I get it. Yeah, that's right. All of a sudden, we're transformed into brilliance. And I'm going, where'd that come from? No, but I was always very close to my parents, especially my dad. My father...
You know, he didn't walk on water or anything like that. I mean, you know, I tell people he wasn't the fourth member of the Trinity and very human. But, you know, he he he loved the Lord. He loved his family. He modeled the destination. He showed up one of the hardest working men I've ever met in my life, a man of impeccable integrity.
the grandson of a slave. You know, he was just an amazing person, no community leader at all, but just had this intuitive sense that, you know, what his priorities were and he just lived it out. I mean, he, we were number one. I mean, God was number one, but his family was core. And, you know, he just had this, had this thing about making sure that, you know,
that we he gave us what we needed to to fly in life and uh you know and i say yeah he didn't put it this way these are my words and you know he he provided us a floor a sturdy floor to stand on and uh you know just just love that guy to death boy that's that's quite a testimony really is do you see that in young fathers today and and uh in how children are being raised today
Oh, you know, not exactly. I think it's a tale of two extremes in our culture right now. I shouldn't say two extremes. I think that there are many solid young couples and people out there who are just...
you know, they're just knocking it out of the park. And quite frankly, I don't think they get enough attention. I think we tend to exaggerate, um, the deficits. Now, having said that, I am very, very concerned about the epidemic of fatherlessness in our culture. Uh,
Um, I am really concerned about the erosion of identity in terms of what a mother should be, what a father should be and that kind of thing. And so I think, um,
I think we're so absorbed in the moment that we're forgetting that life is, you know, the impact of my life is not measured during my moment in history. It's measured out there in a time that I cannot see. And so the decisions and choices that I make today and how I live my life today, you know, I've got to be thinking about what will my grandchildren, great-grandchildren, and great-great-grandchildren look like. You know, and just a word here, you know,
Wayne, I think my parents' generation, they were very much aware of that. Particularly as African Americans growing up, my father was born in 1914 and my mother was born, I think, 1921. And my dad remembered growing up in the South and not having certain things and
And there was this forward thinking that I want my children to have better and I want my children to be better. And so because of the legacy of slavery and those early years and Jim Crow, they they were almost forced to think about a time that they could not see. Interesting. Yeah.
But in a way, that became an extraordinary blessing. And I only use that as an illustration. It's not just the African-American community that was like that, but I think we need to rediscover that sense of longevity and purpose and mission. Well, one thing that has changed is that the culture that you and I grew up in
in roundabout terms, supported what our parents were trying to teach us, didn't it? And now it's anything goes. It seems like it's anything goes these days. So in a sense, it's tougher on parents today, don't you think? Do you understand that? Oh, yeah, it really is. Because I think the hyper individualism of our culture has sabotaged the positive nature of community education.
And there was a sense that even if you disagreed with what was taught in somebody's household, you weren't aggressive in attacking them. And so, you know, I went to public schools growing up. But I don't remember any hostility or aggressive dismantling of what you learned at home. And so you had...
You had, if they didn't affirm what you were taught, they didn't attack what you were taught. And so you had a lot of reinforcement outside of the home. Well, you don't have that these days. Yeah, yeah.
I want to get back to your dad. I think of my dad, and I'm looking at a bookshelf here in my office with his lunchbox on it. He's been gone 20 years, but I have his lunchbox. And it just reminds me of his sacrifice. He wasn't a huge intellect. He was a blue-collar guy who worked in an auto factory. And he came to faith after I did. He came to faith when I was like 16 years old.
But I just look back on that example of steadfastness that he gave me. And that's the floor you're talking about, isn't it? Yes, buddy. Yeah, yeah. You just show up every day. You show up. And what I learned from my parents, just looking in the rearview mirror and seeing the – and just like probably this is what you're referring to, your dad. You know, the remarkable consistency. Yeah. I mean, it's like, you know –
They didn't need an alarm clock to wake up. Responsibility woke them up every morning. Yeah. In his case, it was 4 a.m. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and they just they just kept doing the next right thing, the next right thing. And if they screwed up, of course, they were human. They tried to make it right. And, you know, and I just think, Wayne, you
You know, I was sharing this with some younger leaders the other day. I said, you know, the pursuit of greatness and the pursuit of making a statement is empty. That really, greatness is spelled faithfulness. And faithfulness is its own brand and its own marketing strategy. And, you know, and that's what I...
All the lessons I've learned in life about leadership, I sit on boards and all of this other kind of stuff. I kind of learned those things. And I'm not overstating this. I kind of learned those things from my dad. You know, you do what you say you're going to do. You show up.
You make sure if you ask somebody to bleed that you hemorrhage. You become a portrait of the destination. Characters, everything. You know, you have more under the counter than you put on display. All of these lessons. That's great. Yeah. That he lived. Yeah. Did you ever cross swords with your dad?
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, one memorable thing. Now, this is this is hilarious right now because you're looking at me and I don't have any hair. But.
Back in the late 60s, I was in college and I grew this humongous afro. My dad didn't care too much for that. I don't know what it was. There's a little bit of backstory here. My dad played baseball in the old Negro Leagues and I played a little baseball. In my teen years, my heart for the Lord and the heart to serve him outgrew my
you know, my passion for the game. And so there's a little perfect storm here. He wasn't upset that I was going into ministry, but I went off to this Christian college and they didn't even have a baseball. I mean, well, they had a baseball team, but it wasn't, you know, not competitive. Yeah. I wasn't doing that. And then I come home with this Afro. That's a, that's huge. And my grandkids laugh when they see pictures of it. Now they see. Okay.
you know, grow it again. And my wife says he probably couldn't grow it if he wanted to, but so, so it was just that, you know, I, I just had a little bit of a hair trigger back then in terms of my, my, uh, you know, I'm 18, 19 years old. My dad didn't want to take me to the train station to go back to the college because he said my hair, not with your hair looking like that. And it wasn't about the hair is about these other stuff. Yeah.
And I actually remember raising my voice at him, which I'm, you know, I
I'm actually shocked as I think back about it because you just didn't do that. But you lived. Yeah, yeah. But you know, that was a real important thing. I said to him, I'll never forget my tone to him. I told him, I said, I'm not going to be what you want me to be. I'm going to be what I want to be and this kind of thing. And I just stormed out the house and still not knowing how I was going to get to the train station. My uncle ended up taking me. So,
But my father, that was a rite of passage in our relationship. Now, he never called anybody. But several days after that, I called home and my mother said, your dad, your father wants to speak to you. And I said, no, this ought to be good. Oh, yeah. And he gets on the phone and he just says to me, he says, son, you can be whatever you want to be. You don't have to be anything I expect you to be.
And that was a transition moment. You're right. That was a rite of passage. It was. It was. It was. Yeah. Yeah. More life lessons from Crawford Loritz, our first person guest, coming up in just a moment.
I'm Ed Cannon. The Far East Broadcasting Company partners with First Person because we celebrate the stories of people everywhere who have given their lives to Christ and serve Him. Our broadcasters in 50 countries of the world hear stories every day of people whose lives are transformed by the gospel and who have
faithful we've been taught God's Word. In addition to First Person, I'm pleased that Wayne and I host a podcast, and we invite you to join us. Listen to Until All Have Heard at febc.org. That's febc.org. My guest is Crawford Loritz, and we're just exploring those lessons of life that come early and
Hopefully stick with us throughout life. In Crawford's case, you certainly have. He passes them on to others now. Beyond Our Generation is an organization you've started, and I want to hear about that. Crawford, what is this about? The title says it all probably, doesn't it?
Yeah, you know, it really is about my heart and desire. It goes way, way back to, you know, my dad. And at each point in my life, Wayne, God has raised up people who poured into me. And even in those early years, saw things in me that I didn't see in myself, believed in me, and opened doors for me. And I've always had this sense of...
you know, just indebtedness and wanting to do the same. And I've tried to do that throughout, throughout our ministry. You know, even at the church, we had a residence program and things like that where, and so it's all about just pouring into the next generation. I do that. And it's, it's a small, I mean, my, you know, we don't, we're not starting some huge operation here, but you know, I, I mentor some younger leaders and meet with them. Um, uh,
I'm a visiting professor at about three different seminaries where I teach on leadership and get a chance to pour into them. I'm doing more speaking and writing in that vein. I just came back from Indonesia and Malaysia where, you know,
There are some younger leaders in the cohort that read my book on leadership. I followed your trip online. It was exciting. Yeah. Yeah. So it's doing those kinds of things. Not to get too philosophical here, but I just think that there are three 20-year segments in leadership.
over the span of our lives, particularly a ministry life or career. You know, 20 to 40 is that season of learning where you're learning who you are and who you're not, and you're developing things, you know, and it can be a rough time, but God's using you. And then probably 40 to 60 is that season of leveraging. You know who you're not, you know who you are, and the exposure is beginning to drip over into wisdom, and it's really a fruitful time.
But actually, I think 62 and beyond is that season of leaving. And I don't mean leaving the ministry and I don't mean, you know, leaving an organization. But what I really mean is that you've got more of the rearview mirror than you do in front of you.
And it's that time in your life where you have learned a ton of things through success and failure and adversity and all of that. And you know the difference between a trend and a fad by then. And you know that which is noble. And so what you want to do in your heart, at least you should do this, is begin gravitating toward pouring into the generations before you.
helping them to not, you know, make certain mistakes you've made and prepare them for a time that you cannot see. And so that's kind of where I am right now. And that's what's driving Beyond Our Generation. That's wonderful. And it really displays the godly wisdom that God has entrusted to you to pass on to people today.
And that passing on in that 60-plus time of life can be through teaching like you're doing. It can also be by example. I can think of men and women in my life that were just such a tremendous example to me when they were that age. And, you know, that's the kind of example I want to be as well. Yeah.
Hey, tell me about your early calling. Was there a definite moment when you were called to the ministry, or was it just something, I mean, you mentioned those college years. What was the experience? Well, it has to go back to when I gave my heart to Jesus. I was 13 and a half years old, and it actually wasn't our home church. It was a
a church where a friend of my, my sisters went to. And, uh, um, and my sister started going in to their youth group and, you know, um, invited me to come along and, and, uh, second Sunday in January in 1964, I was 13 and a half years old. I gave my heart to Jesus. And, uh,
But that church, my parents, you know, they applauded me. In fact, they let me attend there. My pastor at that church believed in young people. He was bivocational. It was a small, tiny church on a good Sunday. I don't think he had 100 people there.
And yet, and yet did those folks love young people, especially my pastor. And he began to see things in me. I had a heart to share my faith, even as a young teenager. And, yeah.
And I remember telling him that this burning desire in me to understand God's word and to share it with other people and that I felt like I would like to preach one day. Well, you know, I'm 16 years old. And so he says, OK, if you want to do that, you're going to preach your first message in a few weeks at a prayer meeting. Oh, boy. It's so funny.
By the way, I found that message. We downsized here a few years ago. I found that message. Is that right? Wow. Let me guess. It lasted 10 minutes, right? Yeah. No, no, no. Okay. Yeah. So I stand up to pre. I thought I had like a half an hour's worth of material. I was done like in about eight or nine minutes. Yep.
Billy Graham had the same experience, didn't he? Yeah. But, you know, there was a spark in my heart. There was something there. And so from that, and then one thing led to the next. And even in my later teen years, 16, 17, 18 years, I began speaking at the churches and things like that. And
And so there was a definite call. And looking back, I never really wanted to do anything else but to share God's word and proclaim it. Wonderful.
Crawford, there may be a young person listening today who wants to be in a position to be able to follow God's call and to perhaps move into leadership, but it just doesn't seem to be happening. The doors don't seem to be opening for them. What advice would you have for them?
Well, I think, number one, don't procrastinate your fruitfulness, meaning that sometimes you think that you're not going to be content and be happy and be joyful until and really hitting your stride until you get X, Y, or Z or whatever that is. You don't miss the opportunities in front of you. Pour yourself into right now. This is where you are now.
And the other thing I would encourage you to is that, look, God doesn't have a speech impediment. And when he wants to show you what he wants you to do, he'll be clear about that.
Work on your character right now. Work on showing up. Cultivate faithfulness. Be responsive. No one's stopping you from sharing your faith and no one's stopping you from pouring into other people. And so, you know, there's a lot of things that God's doing in your life right now.
And I would say to a young person, understand this. God can do more in a flash than you can do in 20 years of planning and working and all of that stuff. So you're not wasting your life. And no, it might be, you know, that comes from the Lord as well. Continue to dream. Continue to develop relationships. I would say keep a mentor in your life.
you know, someone that you respect and listen to godly counsel.
And God will open those doors. Such great advice. Godly advice. Thank you, Crawford. Thank you, my brother. Blessings. Simple, practical advice for anyone seeking to make a difference in serving God from our first-person guest, Crawford Loritz. We'll post additional information about Crawford and his many books at FirstPersonInterview.com. You can also re-listen or share this program from that website, FirstPersonInterview.com.
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Now, with thanks to my friend and producer Joe Carlson, I'm Wayne Shepherd. Join us next time for First Person.