Topaz Adizes on Why Asking Better Questions Is the Key to Love EP 518
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Call 866-564-8484 to learn more about prescription Opsalura for non-segmental vitiligo. Coming up next on Passion Struck. I don't interview the people, they interview each other. I just present the questions. So I'm watching, witnessing these conversations that I'd never have be privy to otherwise, right? And what that has taught me is what you're saying is that, and this is the cliche, the power is in the question. You hear that as a cliche, but it really is the

The power is in the question. The question actually shapes the answer. Welcome to Passion Struck. Hi, I'm your host, John R. Miles. And on the show, we decipher the secrets, tips, and guidance of the world's most inspiring people and turn their wisdom into practical advice

for you and those around you. Our mission is to help you unlock the power of intentionality so that you can become the best version of yourself. If you're new to the show, I offer advice and answer listener questions on Fridays. We have long form interviews the rest of the week with guests ranging from astronauts to authors, CEOs, creators, innovators, scientists, military leaders, visionaries and athletes. Now,

Let's go out there and become passion struck. Hey, passion struck fam. Welcome back to episode 518 of the passion struck podcast. You, yes, you are the heartbeat of this community. And I am so grateful for your continued energy, passion, and commitment to living an intentional life. Week after week, you show up ready to elevate your life. And that's what makes this movement so powerful.

If this is your first time tuning in, welcome to the PassionStruck family. You've just joined a community that's all about igniting purpose and living boldly with intention. We're so excited to have you with us on this transformative journey. Before we dive into today's episode, let me give a quick shout out to an episode I did earlier this week with Maha Abu-Ellenine, where we explored her powerful insights on mastering self-reliance and building a personal brand that stands the test of time. If you haven't checked it out yet,

I highly encourage you to listen. Maha's wisdom is invaluable in today's fast-paced world. And if you're ready to dive even deeper into these topics, don't forget to sign up for my Live Intentionally newsletter. Every week, I send out exclusive content, practical exercises, and tools to help you apply what we talk about on the podcast to your own life.

head over to passionstruck.com slash newsletter and start living with more intention today. Also, if you're wondering where to begin with the podcast, we've made it super easy with our episode starter packs. With over 500 episodes, it can be overwhelming. So we've curated playlists based on themes like leadership, mental health, and personal growth. Check them out on Spotify or visit passionstruck.com slash starter packs to dive in. And if you want to view today's episode, you can catch it online.

on our YouTube channels, either at John R. Miles or our Clips channel at Passion Struck Clips. Now, let's get into today's episode because we are privileged to have an extraordinary guest whose work in storytelling and human connection has earned him global recognition, Topaz Adizes. Topaz is an Emmy Award-winning writer, director, and experienced design architect.

His groundbreaking work has been featured at Cane's, Sundance, South by Southwest, and in the New Yorker, Vanity Fair, and the New York Times. He's the creative mind behind the Emmy Award-winning documentary series, The And, and the founder of The Skin Deep. In today's conversation, we're diving deep into the

the inspiration behind The Anne and how Topaz has hosted over 1200 transformative conversations worldwide. We'll talk about the profound impact these spaces have on people and explore his new book, 12 Questions for Love: A Guide to Intimate Conversations and Deeper Relationships. Topaz will share how these 12 questions can transform relationships and offer practical advice on improving communication and handling tough conversations.

Whether you're seeking to deepen your relationships, revitalize long-term partnerships, or better navigate difficult conversations, this episode will leave you with actionable insights you can apply immediately. And if you truly love today's episode or that one with Maha, we would so appreciate it that you give it a five-star rating and review. Those reviews go such a long way in bringing more people into the PassionStruck community. Now let's dive into this fascinating conversation with Topaz. Thank you for choosing PassionStruck.com.

and choosing me to be your host and guide on your journey to creating an intentional life. Now, let that journey begin.

Cut the commute and up the convenience for your next dermatologist visit. Non-segmental vitiligo patients 12 and older can virtually discuss repigmentation with Opsalura Ruxolitinib Cream as soon as today. Get started on your pursuit for repigmentation with topical Opsalura. Visit Opsalura.com to connect with a derm to see if Opsalura is right for you. Provider availability may vary. For patients taking therapeutic biologics, other JAK inhibitors, or strong immunosuppressants such as cyclosporine, Opsalura is not recommended.

Opsalura can lower your ability to fight infections. Tell your doctor if you have or had an infection, TB, hepatitis B or C, blood clots in your legs or lungs, heart attack, stroke, cancer, high cholesterol, are a smoker, or pregnant. Opsalura may cause serious lung infections, certain cancers, immune system problems, blood clots, and low blood cell counts. Major cardiovascular events or death occurred in those 50-plus taking oral JAK inhibitors. The most common side effects were acne and itching were applied.

Call 866-564-8484 to learn more about prescription Opsalura for non-segmental vitiligo.

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I am so honored today to have Topaz Adizes on PassionStruck. Welcome, Topaz. Hey, thank you for having me so much, Sean. I like to kick these things off by giving the audience an opportunity to get to know you better. And I was hoping you could tell us a little bit about your journey. How did your early experiences and education at UC Berkeley and Oxford shape who you are today? Well, I studied philosophy. And at the time, it was like,

It's a joke because if you study philosophy, you're not going to come out with a job. But at the time, I didn't really know what I wanted to do, but I understood that the power of philosophy was viewing ideas in some sense as an object, of seeing all the different angles to an idea. And that was the practice. It was a mental practice, a mental gymnastics of seeing the pros, the cons, the different ways of approaching an idea and an argument.

And I thought that would be really helpful so that before I went off and pursued, I would first learn how to really

think, how to really critically think, how to really look at objects or ideas as objects and see them from all the different angles. I thought that would be a really powerful tool, so I did that at Oxford and UC Berkeley. And I think that was really helpful. I also, on a personal note, I just, after years of being in these classes, which I don't think I was necessarily a good philosopher, I realized, or I came to a conclusion that it was really about confidence and ability to articulate.

Because what is really true and everyone has different opinions and then ultimately it's your ability to articulate an opinion or point of view and doing it confidently. I think that's one thing I learned from that experience in those years. And obviously just being informed from different opinions and different philosophers and great thinkers is really helpful. That's great because philosophy has...

Definitely influenced my life and continues to influence it in much more deeper ways, especially as I'm trying to approach how I'm doing storytelling myself. And I'm sure it has impacted both your storytelling ability and your experience as a design architect. Absolutely. What have you find really helpful in philosophy? To me, there are a number of things. One is it helps you with critical thinking, meaning how to put yourself in

in someone else's shoes, how to look at things through a different perspective, I think is very important and how to see things rather than either or as both and and how we're trying to find harmony and connection with others.

Absolutely. It's funny because I think I've come through another, the words you just used, finding harmony, finding both and, not either or, also speaks to the project that is based. The book is on, it's the conjunction, it's not either or, it's the space between. And so maybe that is a thread that philosophy has positioned me in a place that I've then went on and explored through my work of the last 11 years, 10 years. Interesting.

Well, we're going to get into the and and your book here in a second. I wanted to ask you a couple more background questions before we do.

You asked me before we got on the show and you talked to me about condolences for my sister when we came on the show. And while I was recently at her memorial service, my first cousin was there. And Chris is married to someone from Bulgaria. And he's also fluent in Spanish in addition to English. So they're actually teaching their son how to speak three different languages, which in America is unique. I know in other parts of the world, speaking multiple languages is

is just something you typically do, but not many people speak four or more languages. How has your ability to speak four languages influenced your ability to communicate with different cultures and impacted your perspectives? Great question. Thank you. That's wow. So I have realized that speaking different languages is almost wearing a different costume. I think when I speak Spanish, I have more of a swagger to me than I do when I speak English.

I remember when I moved to New York to study filmmaking in 2000, 2001, I ended up taking an acting class. And at some point I'm reciting a monologue and the acting teacher says, Topaz, what other language do you speak? What's the language that feels closest to your heart? And I said, well, Hebrew. That's kind of early language. And so she goes, do this monologue in Hebrew. And so I did the monologue in Hebrew. My Hebrew is not that great, but I can do it. And, and

I spoke in Hebrew to the monologue and it came across more connected. And I think about that too, because I realized language is also a costume. I have more swagger when I speak Spanish, right? But how are we being is one thing, but how we're expressing that beingness comes through language and using different words is another way of articulating what feels different.

and maybe then on the flip side opens up different emotions in you because you're communicating a different way and i just found it it's not a one-for-one translation it's a different way of dressing of being when you use different languages and there's also the power of the language right they say that the greatest language for philosophy for instance is german because in german with all the words you can actually break a word down so many levels

It's almost like building blocks and that's really helpful when you're trying to break down deconstruct an idea. So they say that's one reason arguably there's so many great German philosophers, because they had the language German language to utilize in exploring and deconstructing and constructing ideas and arguments. So I just may be really aware of both how I'm being by using a certain language but also the power of the language.

right? And in Spanish, there's certain words you use that you wouldn't use in English, or you would translate or. In English, it's beautiful. You're trying to do a Sam Shepard play in Spanish, and he's very good at like beautiful, concise, quick dialogue. In Spanish, what could take three or four words in English might take eight in Spanish. So that ruins that rhythm, that movement. So it just gave me a lot of conscientiousness around the language I use, the languages I use, but also the language I use, the words I use.

I love it. And to me, one of the places I've traveled where I wish I had a better understanding of the language is throughout Asia, because their cultures and their mannerisms are so different than what we have in the Western culture that it would make it so much easier if you knew how to speak Cantonese or Japanese, et cetera. Oh, absolutely. And I too am a

just very basic in terms of Asia. I've not been there much, just a few countries. So I really don't know what I'm missing and how that would open up my perspective on things in the world. I do remember being in Hiroshima once, just arriving. I had just landed from Istanbul, Turkey. I was making a film around the world called Americana, about American identity seen around the world. So I landed in Hiroshima and the letters, the characters are so different. And it was night and I had to find food.

I didn't know where to, I couldn't find, I didn't know what restaurants for what. And I remember walking into different restaurants, trying to see if I could look at the menu, just to look at pictures. And I remember having to do, I'm looking for, because I'm a vegetarian, so I had to eat fish. So I had to do with my hand, like this hand movement of eating fish to try to

communicate. And it's yeah, different memories of different places and how we decipher codes is really relevant to the codes that we use in our everyday life. If you remove yourself from those codes, ie the language, the characters, then you're in a new world and therefore you might feel lost. But at the same time, there's a great possibility of new things being created.

Well, thank you for sharing that. And I, before I moved to Tampa, lived in Austin for many years where I love going to South by Southwest. And you mentioned earlier about your work. It's actually been recognized South by Southwest Sundance and other prestigious festivals. How has some of that success validated your path in the field that you're in? The validation has meant a lot for me before than it does now.

But I think that's because of the question that I asked myself, which I think is a great learning that I've had is just one of the questions that you ask yourself or the questions you ask of others was the question you ask of your company is very important, more so than the answer. And in my 20s and 30s, as I was building my career, the question was, do they think I'm a genius? So you go to Sundance two years in a row, and then the third year you go to Cannes, and the question I'm asking is, do they think I'm a genius?

So if that's the question I'm asking myself, how much do you think I enjoyed the actual screenings? Because I was worried if they thought I was a genius. Then as I matured, and then I had another film at Sundance and went back. These are all short films. These are not features. It's not huge. But I went back and the question wasn't that. The question now is, do they see how beautiful this is? Isn't this amazing? Isn't this film just beautiful and amazing? Isn't it such a joy to watch? And that's a much simpler question. And it's also...

doesn't put it's like a sharing of an experience versus putting their judgment of whether I'm a genius that's a very difficult question to answer and also puts me in a position of not often feeling fulfilled or not feeling enough or to core theme of yours and not feeling like I matter right I don't have to be a genius to matter and so the validation was a driving force in my life in my 20s and 30s and early for really 20s and 30s because I want I felt like I needed to prove myself ultimately to my father and

as i got older as i became a father and maybe i got enough trophies in the cabinet so maybe i don't need them anymore maybe that's it or maybe i found this work of the and where we host these conversations and i found true value i try to find true value that i know that we've

affected people's lives. I know it. I mean, we see it in the social media, direct comments, direct messaging. We see it when I meet people and maybe that's fulfilled my cup. Maybe that's enough because right now I don't have the question of do I think I'm a genius? I don't ask that. It's not a good question to ask oneself. And I don't really have another trophy that I want to get.

I don't, and I wonder, and I've been asking my friends, is this a problem? Have I lost my ambition? What's, what is it? What's going on? And maybe, and I'm wondering about that. But right now I'm in a place where I'm very content with how things are at, and I don't really need to want to achieve anything. It's more like, how can I serve more? That's the question I've been asking myself.

I love it. And just so the audience knows, and I won't go into it, but Topaz is being very humble here. In addition to the other things he mentioned, he's garnered an Emmy and two World Press Photo Awards, if I have that correct. So just one last question before we jump into the heart of this. As I was researching you, I found that you like to talk about creating spaces that

Explore our shared humanity. Can you elaborate on what this means and why that's important to you? I don't know if I like humans, but I love humanity. Sometimes something people do that pisses me off. I'm sure it pisses off your listeners. But I love humanity. Like we humans are human by design. We're not perfect and we're not flawless. We have flaws, but those flaws can make us beautiful. And the misunderstandings can make things beautiful too. And I believe that humanity...

Is not within us. It's between us. So the question is, how do we illuminate that? How do we create the space to illuminate our shared humanity? Because I think that the shared humanity is what elevates us all. Not necessarily the individual. Not always. I mean, I think even Gandhi had his faults, right? Even people that we put up on pedestals, they're not all perfect.

And so even myself, for instance, who writes a book about 12 Conversations for Love, Guide to Conversation, even I sometimes don't want to have those conversations. It's not like I'm perfect. And I don't think all of the gurus that you see these days or whatnot don't always embody at every moment the fullness of what they're offering. Because we're human. We have flaws. But in our shared connection, that's where we get a sense of what it means to be alive. It's get a sense of humanity.

One of the greatest sports I love to play is rowing crew. When I was at Oxford, I did that for one term and it was amazing. I wish I did it more. The last term I was there, you wake up in the morning, you go there, you get on the boat. And what I love about that sport is that you don't necessarily see how the rest of your teammates are doing. You can feel it on the boat if one of them catches a crab or something, but you're rowing and your back is to the right. If I was in the second front of the seat, so there was the, who was the guy rowing, driving the boat.

There was a stroke who's setting the tempo and I was right behind him and we're rowing and the six people behind, I don't know how hard they're trying. When you're competing, you don't know how hard they're trying, but you have the faith that they're all trying their best. So therefore I'm definitely going to try my best. I'm not going to let them down. And I love that because that's the sense of shared humanity, in my opinion. It's this hope and this faith that are we all trying to make the best for each other?

Okay, so maybe not the world, maybe not the nation, maybe not even your community, but your block, your family. Are you doing the best for them? Are we in a situation where we're trying to elevate the space so that we can all become better human beings? I mean, when I look at your stuff, that's what you're passionate about. At least that's what I read about what you're doing. It seems like you're passionate about similar things, right? But that's what comes up for me. And I think that these days we see less and less of it.

We're siloed off into our digital media tools that are run by these algorithms that are fed on fear and fury because they spread faster than loving kindness and shared humanity. So you get good at what you practice. What are we practicing? What are we enveloping ourselves in? How do we envelop ourselves in shared humanity?

And that's what I think the work of my team and I at the Skin Deep we've been doing for the last 11 years is creating a little bit of a digital dose of humanity.

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Well, thank you so much for sharing that. And for those who haven't read my book, I mean, one of the ultimate things I'm trying to get people to become is what I call a creative amplifier, which are really people who are concerned about being system catalyst, because it's going to take all of humanity to change the things that we desperately need to be changed, whether it's climate change or

the animosity that is growing across the world or other things to change the world to make a better place. So I think we have a shared message that we're both trying to get out there. And it's also just to lock it in on something that people, because it's a big word, humanity and charity. What does that mean? I'll give you an example, two, three examples that you can feel it. You remember before the cell phones, if you're, for those listeners who remember, when you get in that random taxi and you have this incredible conversation with the taxi driver,

that there's a shared knowledge of truth that you both discussed that you shared and you walk out you'll never see that person again and yet you felt a sense of living aliveness a sense of truth that was shared with a total stranger that reinforced your belief in being alive and being human in community right or you have a fight with your partner and you initially you don't even want to speak to them you're so disappointed

but then you talk through it and on the other side is a renewed strength of your connection of your relationship because you understand each other and you trust each other now because you've wed weathered that storm that misunderstanding that conflict and you sense i'm not alone in this that to me is that sense of humanity so when you look in the other person in the eye there's just a knowledge as an awareness that we're not alone that we're experiencing this thing called life

Right? And that we articulate it to each other such that we can reinforce our understanding that we're not alone. And that's what I mean by shared humanity. So how do we amplify that? How do we cultivate that? How do we cultivate that very real thing? That's been my work for the last 11 years. And that's, don't want to talk in big hyperbole with beautiful words. It's like, how do you create that moment of connection, real connection, which is now a bigger word ever than when I started this 10, 11 years ago.

connection vulnerability that wasn't as big as it is now now everyone's using it you've mentioned your book the 12 questions for love and we've mentioned the and which is your me award-winning project a few times

So I want to read something from the beginning of the book and maybe use this as an introduction so that you can explain to the audience if they're not familiar with the and what it is. So you write that I've been studying and watching humans of all types and in all kinds of relationships simply talk, but there's more to it. I've created the space for powerful cathartic conversations to occur. I've created the questions that spark those experiences for the participants.

And you've trained others to hold the space, write the questions, and ultimately create powerful moments for people across gender, social, economic, and cultural spectrums to connect in new and profound ways. What would you like to know about that? I wrote that. Yep. And I've done that. Yep. So using that as the backdrop, what got you started on this whole exploration of the and?

And what are you hoping people will get from this? So 11 years ago, I started this experience design studio called the Skin Deep. And the emphasis was to create space for us to explore as humans. What is the emotional experience of being alive in this day and age mean? Because it's changing. Whereas our grandparents or our parents used to write love letters to each other and lick the envelope and put it in the mail and wait for one, two, three weeks

especially if they're the military and your partner is off at sea like you were you were right maybe the navy understand you wait and you wait for that response and nowadays that response comes in one second in one minute are you getting ghosted if you're not responding in a minute on a text message or voice note right the speed the technology we're using is changing our experience of connection of being it is shifted and we humans are so good at adapting to change

that we quickly, we're so good at adapting the change that we think it's always been this way. It hasn't. We use the terms love, but I think love has changed. Writing a letter and waiting for three weeks of response is very different emotional experience than one two-minute response. You're waiting, and if they don't write to you quickly, then are you getting ghosted? It's different. We used to get into an elevator.

And it used to, let's take this example, in the plane. Everyone gets on a plane now. No one talks on the planes anymore because everyone's watching their films or watching or on their phones. There's very little interaction with humans that are physically around you so much or less so because we have these digital tools. So our emotional experience of being alive is shifting. I mean, there's a lot of great things that are happening.

In the past, you used to find your partner from physical proximity at church, at work, through friends, at a party. You'd have to physically be around them in your town, in your neighborhood to meet your wife or your partner or your husband or whatnot. Nowadays, you can find them online.

A lot of people are doing that and it's based on what not physical proximity, but maybe interests, maybe values, right? And you find them and that creates a new experience. So the emotional experience of being human is shifting and we're so good at adapting change that we always think it is, but we're not cognizant of how the tools are shifting us. So 10, 11, 11 years ago, I started the skin deep to explore that and the flagship was

An experience is called the and the and. What is that about? What is this guy talking about the and? It's the conjunction. What does that mean? Well, a relationship is not you or I, us or them. It's you and I. It's us and them. It's the and that connects us. So how do we illuminate that and? How do we illuminate that connection? So I brought two people into a room, had them face each other, had three cameras in the room. One's a wide shot and two are singles covering a close up on their faces.

and i presented them with questions to ask each other and they start asking each other questions what are your three favorite memories we share why do you cherish them what are you hesitant to ask me what are you hesitant to tell me what do you think i'm hesitant to tell you what's the pain in me you wish you could heal and why what's one experience you wish we never had and why why do you think life brought us together what's the greatest lesson you've learned from our worst fight

All these questions. Now we present it to the audience always with both where you always see both people's faces at the same time. So as they ask, we're not cutting to a single of one person responding and then cut back to the other person. We're splitting the frame by panel or triptychs. You see the wide shot, but you're always seeing both the speaker and the listener at the same time. And what that's doing is elevating that it's not just the speaker because all the content we see these days,

You're always seeing who the speaker is. You're always just seeing who's talking. You're not seeing who's listening at the same time. And the listening is just as important. So we show them both and we say, what's important here is not just the speaker. It's not just the listener. It's both. It's the connection. It's the end.

And that's how we illuminate the connection. We've been doing that for 11 years with well over 1,200 conversations. That's what we won the Emmy for. We've been building a library now. And that's what all my work is based on in the book. It's a distillation of what have I learned. And what do I want people to take away from the end is, well, two things. My team and I, we've really committed to this. And it's for two reasons. One, short term. What's the short term? Look, you're going through something. You think you're the only one experiencing this.

I have 1200 conversations, very likely some of them pertain to the thing you're experiencing. You can watch it and go, oh my, I'm not the only one who's experiencing this. And not only am I the only one, look at how they all deal with it differently. So it's a wonderful tool of reflection. It's a wonderful tool of shared humanity. Oh my, look at these people. They're sharing their experience. I'm going through the same thing. I see myself in them. They're doing this similarly or different. How can I do it differently? So that's a wonderful tool for the now.

Long term. Long term, I want my grandkids to look at this and go, what was it like in the year of the great pandemic? What was it like when people were quarantined and had to not see each other for a year? Or what was just a wonderful archive of humans conversing and sharing their relationships in the early part of the 2000s as internet was coming to birth and changing everything so people could relate to and see how humans were conversing, how they were feeling, how they were relating.

Topaz, thank you so much for that explanation. And I want to tell you a little bit about a story. I am impressed you've done 1,200 interviews because I've done about 500 myself and realize everything that goes into that, but also the wisdom that you yourself gain from hearing from the different people who you experience. And one of the people who I interviewed is a friend of mine, Mark Devine.

who's a former Navy SEAL. He's now an author, podcast host, really successful entrepreneur. But when Mark was younger, I think he, like a lot of people in Western society, was caught up in trying to

to get results where he was rewarded. And he started out by working for one of the big four consulting firms, and he was tying his identity to his work there, where as he was working there, he decided to go back and get a master's degree. And he had a time lag between the time he got off work and the time classes started. So he discovered a martial arts program

And through that, for the first time in his life as a young 20-something year old, he started to do self-introspection. And he came through this learning how to meditate. And he said to me that what I learned early on from this experience was it was the questions that I asked myself that were going to define me, not the answers I was trying to seek.

And when he started to ask himself different questions, he realized he was on the wrong career path. And what he really was inside was a warrior, which led him fairly at a more senior level than most would get into the SEALs, becoming a SEAL and going through BUDS. But it had a number, I'm saying this because it had a number of interesting points to your work, because similar to Mark, what you've seen is the questions we ask ourselves are

are far more important than the answers we seek. And every answer is shaped from the question from which it springs. Therefore, asking insightful questions can only lead us to better, more helpful answers. And I think this is what's at the center of your project, if I had to spell it down into what I think the core is all about. Absolutely. Absolutely.

How do we change, especially in the Western world, this mindset? I certainly found myself in it that I was pursuing outward success instead of asking myself the inward questions. And when I started to do so,

It's led me on this whole different pursuit in life that I'm doing today. But a lot of people, and you were asking me who are listeners of this podcast, a lot of people are stuck in that other world where they feel like they have all this stuff that they have to prove to themselves, to others. And so they're trying to get recognitions and awards and everything else. So my question to you is, how do you start giving all these interviews you've done? What have you learned

on how you cross this chasm well so one distinction is i don't interview the people they interview each other i just present the questions so my whole is watching is witnessing these conversations that i'd never have be privy to otherwise right and what that has taught me is what you're saying is that and this is the cliche the power is in the question you hear that as a cliche but it really is the power is in the question the question actually shapes the answer and if you

And there's many facets to that. I mean, if you ask your kids, you want to go to bed, they're going to say yes or no. They're going to say no. That's it. If you say, are you going to go to bed in the bed or in the couch? They're going to bed. It's not a question. It's just where is it going to be in the bed or in the couch? So you're already shaping the answer by the question you ask. If you ask yourself, why did they dump me? Why did this person dump me? You're going to get a long list of reasons why you think they dumped you. And it's not going to make you feel that good. If you change the question to, what have I learned from this last relationship that will prepare me for the next one?

then you're already shaping the answer to be an empowering one. It's not going to make you feel depressed and give you a reason of why you think they dumped you. But instead, okay, what have I learned from that relationship? And how will I carry it forward to make the next one better? Their power is in the question. And we don't often look at the question because the power is in the question. So we're offering answering other people's questions. Our fathers, our mothers, our communities, our societies, right? The name, the culture, right?

A lot of us are getting these, whatever this thing is, that you're answering a question that's actually not your own, that you've adopted as almost a societal programming or cultural mantra. So taking the time to introspect and just giving yourself a different question. It doesn't necessarily mean you'll do something different, but what it does mean is maybe you'll change your motivation by which you do it. What do I mean? Okay, maybe you have a great job and you're performing well and you're making money and you say, why am I doing this? Well, it's because...

Want to prove myself to my parents or I'm supporting my family whatever maybe you come up with a different answer as you ask yourself different questions And so maybe you change the intention the underlying source that is then you don't have to necessarily change the action But because you ask yourself questions you're finding a different source of energy that gives you why you're doing what you're doing Let me give an example. I have a brother who's a super talented artist super talented musician and for many years I

He was performing at a top level with a lot of pressure because the reason he was doing it because he wanted to prove himself to his father and his parents. He told him he was going to be great, he's going to be a genius and he had this pressure of having to be a genius. And by really exploring the question of why he was doing what he was doing, when he understood that, he said, "You know what? I'm just going to make a slight shift. I want to do this not because of the pressure of my parents to be a genius and prove myself to them and be as big as they have visions for me, but instead I'm going to do it because I have a talent.

I've put in years of practice and I know I can change people's lives with the music I make. So he's still making music, but it's coming from a different place. And that system, the place from which it's coming and how it flows through his body out into the world is one with less internal tension and confliction and pressure. And it's a healthier way to live for him, more impassioned way to live. And so...

when we ask ourselves questions it's not that the answers may change or may not but also the way in which we do them may change and that may be more helpful and i really think for whoever is listening and i agree with you at the crux of the book it's pay more attention to the questions you ask the answers you seek pay more attention to the questions you ask than the answers you seek so i think this is a good entry point to discuss the book and how it's arranged because

In it, you ask 12 questions and you say that the conversation from the book works best if you use the questions in the order that they appear in this book. And what is the reasoning for this? Jill, an editor, reached out for me and she said, "Tope has been a fan of The And for years." And I'm wondering, what have you learned? What are the 12 meat and potato questions that you know will really work to shape a question, to shape a cathartic conversation?

And so I look back through all my work, through all our team's work and all the conversations, and what I'm presenting in the book are here are 12 questions that are guaranteed to create a journey of a cathartic conversation that will amplify and give you greater appreciation and discovery of the relationships you're in. Whether it's with your partner, with your best friend, with your parent, with your child, whoever you're intimate with. Now, we have a number like 15 editions of card games to play in different relationships.

so you go to our site go to amazon you buy the decker cards and there's a bunch of beautiful questions that you can play with the people in your life friends family lovers um co-workers right and those work randomly and there's a beautiful thing to asking these well-constructed questions randomly but there's also a power to asking them in a certain sequence and that's what i've done here that's what we do when we do the productions of our videos where people come in and they sit across from each other and we film that and that's what we post across all the socials

There is a power in the architecture of the journey and filmmakers are very aware of the five act structure. So the first three questions of the first act where you call on the past, you call on the uniqueness of your relationship, the bedrock of your connection, the love, the trust. And so those questions hark out answers that really give you a sense of why you're connected and what is it about your connection that you love, that you cherish? What is the fundamental

Base layer that this relationship is built on then we go into act 2 which is the next three questions four five and six Which we're exploring conflict. What are you hesitant to ask me? What am I hesitant to tell you? So keep in mind in the end of the book I offered different questions you can replace for any of them give you the 12th, but it's a structure that's important So the second one is conflict. What do you what's our biggest challenge right now? What do you think it's teaching us? What is the sacrifice you've made that I haven't acknowledged and why do you think that is?

So those three questions deal with conflict and how we deal with them differently and we gives a room to explore that. And we built it we built based on trust now we're exploring our some conflict if you will. We built that up and now we go to question seven which would be like the climax seven and eight are the climax questions. What is the pain in me you wish you could heal and why? Eight, what is one experience you wish we never had and why?

Spend time there. Now you've built that trust up. You've gone on this journey. You're now, you know, if you got that question at first playing the card game, you may answer it in one way or not. But in this journey, because you've answered the preceding 6, 7, 8 questions, you're going to answer it differently because you've been through something together. You've already harped on things. You've already built that trust.

And then 10, 9 and 10, those two questions in act four are we are starting to land the plane, acknowledgement of each other. What are we learning from each other? What do you think you're learning from me? What do you admire most about me that I may not realize? And then we end the last two, which is something that we should really ask ourselves and not wait for life to present you with the perfect opportunity because you never know when things can end. So the number 11 is what is one thing you never want me to forget? If this were to be our last conversation,

What is one thing you never want me to forget? And number 12 is, why do you love me? And that sums up Act 5. And that's the whole 12 questions. So there is a journey here built. Now, these questions are powerful. Now, we can double-click on each question, why I've constructed them the way they are. It's not like they are constructed in a certain way because they elicit a certain possibility, an opportunity. We can talk about that. But the structure pertains to giving you

a journey to go on and so therefore when you get to why do you love me at the end and you've answered the preceding 11 and all that you've been through in that wonderful conversation it'll be that much deeper even if it's just simply looking the other person in the eye and saying i just do topaz thank you so much for sharing that and before i do any deep dives on any of these questions i wanted to go deeper into

how you ask these questions and interact around them. And one of the things I wanted to explore was the power of the space between. And I've heard you say there's a lot said in the space between. We don't have to articulate everything to feel everything. How does this idea play into the conversations facilitated by the Ant? Bottom line, you don't have to answer all the questions. It's not about answering all the questions. It's about sitting in the question.

It's about sitting in the question, feeling the question because you're sitting there opposite someone you love, someone you're intimate with, someone you care about. You ask a question. Maybe you both don't want to answer at that moment. That's okay. When we play the and the card games or do the video production, the rule is, and it's part of creating a safe space, is that you don't have to answer it if you don't want. But just the fact that you ask it, your minds, both your minds, whoever's in the conversation, you're thinking about the answer.

You're thinking about what you would answer, you're thinking about what they would answer. Then even if they give an answer, you're still wondering, "Ooh, is that surprising me? I didn't expect that, but that's exactly what I thought." Or, "Ooh, they're saying that, but there's this other elephant in the room that we're not talking about. That's fine." What I'm saying is it's about being with each other. It's not about doing with each other. It's not about the perfect answer. We're not coming to the conclusion. It's about being with each other and feeling that. And there's a lot more that's articulated other than words.

verbally. It's also how we're physically being with each other. I don't know what percentage it is, but people say that it's not about the words, it's about how you say it. So there's a lot there that's shared that's beyond just the articulation of the words. And I think that's what's key, is that are you creating this space to sit in the uncomfortable questions with the people that are most important to you? And let's just make sure we don't confound safety with comfort. You can be safe and uncomfortable.

and matter of fact that's a great place to be because you're growing you're changing you're learning if you're safe and comfortable you might not be learning you know i might not be growing so don't confuse safety with comfort safety is one thing and discomfort and comfort is another so can we be in a place where we feel safe but we also feel uncomfortable just because we're sitting in an uncomfortable question can we hold that space for each other and i think that's a great marker for healthy relationships so thank you for that and let's take this a step forward

So you have decided that you're not going to walk away from the questions if you're a person playing the game. You're now clearly outlined in the space and you're willing to explore these deep questions in a more powerful way. The next thing that comes in, because you mentioned articulation, is something that you have termed emotional articulation.

How does emotional articulation differ from what most people might have heard as emotional intelligence? Emotional articulation is the ability to put words to a feeling, to articulate the feeling. Emotional intelligence is understanding what those feelings are, maybe understanding how other people are feeling and understanding the relationship between emotions and the other person's emotions, but to actually put it into words.

and to have that feeling conveyed and felt with the other person is an articulation. So that's the difference for me. And I think what's key in this whole conversation too is look, from 1200 conversations from doing this in 10, 12 countries, what I've learned is two parts. You need to create the space, needs to be a safe space, albeit uncomfortable space, but you need to create that. We can talk about how do you do that? And the other one is you need well-constructed questions.

Those are the two pieces that then present an opportunity for you to have an incredible conversation that will forever change your relationship by augmenting it, by amplifying it, by making you feel more alive because you're sharing your life with the people that you're intimate with. And so those are the two key pieces that I've found. And a result of that is that as you do this, you're improving your skill at emotional articulation.

Not all of us are great at it. Not all of us are good at it. But just like when you were a kid, you weren't great at riding a bike. You got on and you did it a few times. You fell off a few times and you got better. Same thing. How do we practice the skill of articulating our emotions to others? We practice it. Are you practicing it? So I want to go into a couple of these questions, Topaz. Let's just start with question one. What are your three favorite memories and why do you cherish them?

And what I wanted to know about this is you write that when you answer this question, you might find that the three memories you choose to share are different from those your partner selects, or that one of you is reminded of a wonderful memory they had forgotten until the discussion that this question provoked. Why is that the case? Well, because we're all different memory banks, right? We're all different. I mean, one of the greatest gifts my parents gave me by far would be my brother. He's 15 months younger than I.

And we grew up together. And there are things that I might have forgotten about and that he can remind me of because he was there. And he holds on to a certain memory that I might have let go of, right? Or we both have the same memory, but we saw it from different perspectives. And so then it's having a second camera, a second recording at that pivotal moment. And I always thought it meant this. But when he tells me, actually, I saw this, ooh, maybe that memory can now mean something different. And I think that's a beautiful thing about sharing our lives with other people.

is that it's not just us who is having that experience. We're sharing that experience. And in the sharing, there's different perspectives, which is a gift. Sometimes it creates conflict because we might interpret the same experiences or the same thing in different ways. But actually, that difference is a gift because it reassures that we're not alone. We're not alone. We're having and we're exchanging our perspectives. And there's a beauty in that. I just saw, I just came back from a family reunion and I met my aunt that I hadn't seen in a few years.

five or six years, she's about 78, and she told my wife about how she remembered this memory of me as a kid, and I wanted to interview some Druze, some guy in a village, in a cave, and as a teenager, because I want to be a storyteller. She told my wife a story I do not remember. I don't have a memory of that. So she just unearthed this memory that I totally forgot. A treasure in the cave of my life, she just pulled out into the light and shared it with me so that I could relive it for a moment.

isn't that beautiful i think it's beautiful i think that's what we can offer each other right we can offer that to each other and i think that's part of what shared humanity is sharing the experiences and the memories together so i think one of the ways we share those experiences you express in question three which is when do you feel closest to me and why and in this chapter you talk about the story of maddie and martin

And I was hoping you might dive into their story and why it was so meaningful that you wrote about it. Well, what I love about the book is that we had this library of conversations that you can find on YouTube. And in the book, every reference that we talk about, there's a QR code so you can scan it and you can go and actually watch the conversation and feel it and see it for yourself.

So I love that about the book. It's offering you an experience in the relationships in your own life, but also you can see all these other conversations of people having that are exploring the relationships and might bring things up. I think that's a beautiful thing. And I think what comes up with me with that question is that oftentimes it could be the simplest things, right? It's that moment in bed when they had a fight and then she looks over and she knows that it's not a big deal. It's not a big deal. What's a big deal is that he's here sleeping in the bed with me every night.

it's that moment when you're sitting at a dinner party or an event with your partner and they someone says something and then you just look at each other and you share that same little secret that conspiracy that shared mutual because i have a mentor in mind ava holler who's about 90 something she's an incredible woman and i once asked her what do you love about your relationship your relationships your partner she said the shared conspiracy

That they're at a dinner event and they look at each other and they have a shared, they don't have to talk. They just look at each other and they both are thinking the same thing and they both have a shared conspiracy. I think that's beautiful. And I think when you feel closest to me, it just harks back to that in a relationship that it doesn't have to be big. It can be very small. It's the small, it's the mortar and the bricks upon you with which you build your relationship. It's the thing that keeps together. It's the smallest things. It's not always the biggest things.

and i think asking that question offers you can oftentimes i've seen the answers that's a reminder of that because also the beautiful thing about these small things that you can have them a lot of the time and it's absolutely true topaz i have to ask if you could have anyone in the world sit down and participate in the end who would it be and why that's a great question i've thought about that i always want to go back to some legendary characters but right now when i look at the world

I really would love to have our presidential candidates do the and. I would really like to have politicians who are having huge impact in our lives play the and with each other. And the reason is I will construct questions that create greater empathy and connection versus disconnection and polarization and basically aggressive fighting. These are the leaders of our world who are creating public policy, who are setting the tone. I'm not just speaking in the US, I'm speaking in the world.

And what if we presented them with questions that put them in each other's shoes, that created a certain environment of respect and acknowledgement and focused the problem, focused the solution on our ability to truly work together rather than being disconnected. And that's where I would really love to do now is I would really like to put public members in the political realm to have conversations with each other so that we can remind ourselves of what are we, why are they doing what they're doing to serve the people.

And I'm talking because there's a this year we had the greatest number of elections around the world. I think it's around 50 of them, 60, 60 of them all around the world. Countries are voting or not, depending on their governments. But imagine if you have two political rivals and the question is, what do you think? What do you appreciate most about my leadership style? What is the greatest thing you think I've done for our shared community? What is the one value that we both share?

What is the greatest misunderstanding we could both overcome? And what would be the result of that? You know, you, again, the question shapes the answer. If you're asking why am I better than you, I'll give you a long list of why I'm better than you. That's not going to create connection. It's not going to create integration, coherence. So I would love to do that. And matter of fact, yeah, and it was close when Hillary was running against Trump the first time.

There's an opportunity to put Hillary and Chelsea, I don't know if this is true, but apparently it went up two flagpoles to the top to do that. And it was decided to have Hillary do it with her daughter, Chelsea. I don't know if this is factually true, but that's what we were told. And just to give more humanity to Hillary so that you'd see the mother inside. But I don't know if that's true or not, but that would be great, right? To get a sense of these public figures and see the humanity inside them, not just the rough exterior.

Would be a nice change from the constant attacks that we see them making on each other instead of really getting down to what they really believe in and who they are as a person. So one of the things that I talk most frequently about on this podcast is something that I've learned through behavioral science. And that is if we want to have

these macro changes in our life, it all comes down to the concept of micro choices, meaning it's the micro choices we make throughout our days that determine either a tsunami of greatness or a waterfall of despair. And I've heard you say that big changes come from micro changes consistently. How do we implement this idea to make a lasting impact on our lives and our communities? The way I do it is

I look at what's the big one, what's the big micro change I want to make? Okay, what are five small micro changes I can make daily that would lead to that big micro change? And I write them out and I say, how many times do I want to make them a week or a day? And I literally quantify it. Because the great thing about quantifying something is that you can track it. If you can track it, then you can see how you're doing. So literally I have...

the macro change what is it that i want to make okay i'm not focusing on making that big change i want to focus on consistently making these five micro changes is it taking a half hour walk a day is it making sure i drink two liters of water or three liters of water is it making sure i meditate is it making sure i have time to play with my kids whatever it is micro changes and i track that i don't choose too many choose five fit on your hand and i track that every day and i write it down so i see that i'm doing it or not

and i think though you and though you do these micro changes that are let's say up river from the down river macro change does that make sense that's how i do it i really cut it down to the micro things i can do because i can't make the big thing happen what i can do is i can take the step ahead today am i doing that and then the last thing i wanted to ask you is earlier on you mentioned that you try not to think about your legacy but rather your focus is on the future

how does that perspective influence your work and your future vision for the end well where did you grab that that not focus on my legacy because it's true but is that from the book or is that from an interview

It's from another interview that I did research on. Great, great. No, thanks. No, because the legacy is how other people see me. And that's not interesting for me. What's interesting is, though sometimes it gets to me, right? What gets to me is how I told you at the beginning of this call before we started recording that I have a number of friends that are battling cancer now. They're my age and that are very close friends. And I'm not sure if we're going to see them next year. And that really brings up the thought of how do you show up in people's lives?

How do you affect other people? How are you maintaining relationships that are important to you? That's what I'm thinking about, not because I'm thinking about the legacy. I'm thinking about how am I showing up for other people? How am I helping other people? The legacy is for them to decide, not for me. And so...

I don't think about legacy. I think really about just how I can help serve other people in the and format, which I think is this beautiful, powerful format of deeper listening, of creating empathy, of showing shared humanity, illuminating it is a wonderful format. It's a wonderful tool. So how can I and my team, how can we apply it to as many conversations, as many relationships, as many experiences as possible? That's really where I put my focus and focus.

and energy in the public and the professional sphere. In the private sphere, it's all my children. How can I be a better father? How can I create the spaces and experiences so that they can flourish, be connected to themselves so that they can offer contribution and value to their community as they become adults? Those are the two things I'm focused on. Well Topaz, you've been a wonderful guest today. Thank you so much for joining us. If people want to learn more about you and the work that you're doing, where are the best places for them to go?

So all our work is at theskindeep.com and the social media channels are theskindeep. I do have my own website, topacities.com, but really all the content, all our work is at theskindeep.com. So you can look that up on social medias and that's where we're at. Thank you so much, John. It's been great to be on the show with you. The honor is mine. Thank you so much. And thank you for the goodness that you're bringing into the world.

What an incredible conversation that was with Topaz Adizes. His work in creating spaces for human connection through storytelling is absolutely transformative. The way he approaches relationships by asking the right questions and fostering open, intimate conversations has the potential to change the way we connect with each other on a deep, meaningful level.

One of the key takeaways from today's episode is the power of questions. Whether it's the 12 questions from his book, 12 Questions for Love, or just knowing how to open up tough conversations, asking the right questions is a pathway to deeper relationships as well as a more fulfilling life. So I want to leave you with this. What's one question you can start asking today to deepen your relationships?

If today's episode resonated with you, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Please take a moment to leave us a five-star rating and review. It helps us to continue bringing these powerful conversations to you. And if you know someone who could benefit from Topaz's message, share this episode with them. Sometimes a single conversation can spark profound change.

You can find links to everything we discussed today, including Topaz's book, 12 Questions for Love, in the show notes at passionstruck.com. Please use our website links if you purchase any of the books from the guests that we feature here on the show. Videos of this episode are available on YouTube, and don't forget to check out our sponsors,

and deals at passionstruck.com slash deals. Please consider supporting those who support the show. Before we close, I want to remind you that beyond hosting the podcast, I'm passionate about sharing these insights through speaking engagements. If today's conversation sparked something in you and you think my message could inspire your company, head over to johnrmiles.com slash speaking to learn more. Let's work together to create intentional change and ignite growth. Now, get ready for next week's episode where I sit down with Terry Cole to discuss her new book, Too Much.

A Guide to Breaking the Cycle of High Function and Codependency. You know, when I have Terry Cole on the show, it's going to be a powerful conversation. And this one fulfills every expectation about breaking free from codependent behaviors and reclaiming your life. Don't miss it. So we're changing our blueprints by becoming aware of why we relate in our relationships. Platonic

professional, and otherwise the way that we do. So that's really what the blueprint will do for you. You answer the questions and then you get clarity like, oh my gosh, I did not realize I was repeating my parents' relationship here or that I saw this and that's why I'm doing it or my culture.

taught me that this was the right way to be. And as always, the fee for the show is simple. If you found value in today's episode, share it with someone who could benefit from it. And remember, do your best to apply what you hear on the show so that you can live what you listen. Until next time, live life passion struck.

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