Barbara Burns
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Go to 80dayobsession.com. That's 80dayobsession.com. Barbara Byrne spent most of her life caring for her younger sister, Debbie. Debbie suffered a bunch of brain damage and neurological damage. Barbara not only was the caretaker for her sister, she also became the breadwinner of the family. Then a surprising inheritance changes everything.

She thought, oh, we're rich. We got all the money in the world. They had kind of a fantasy type life. All of a sudden, they're traveling to California, and then they're traveling to Australia and taking a tour all around. ♪

But dreams die hard when the money runs out. A terrifying discovery reveals a dark secret. There were all kinds of air fresheners. There was bowls and potpourri. Just anything you could think of to try to mask the smell of a decomposing body.

What happens when a kind heart turns hateful? Sometimes circumstances create a devil. And a confession so haunting, even the accused can't believe it. They told me that I killed my sister.

And I don't know what happened until this day. I still can't remember. May 4th, 2005, St. Petersburg, Florida. St. Petersburg is a beautiful city. It's on the water. There's many types of people from different areas that live here. They come from all over the country to live in our beautiful city. It's kind of a sleepy little town for retirees.

In the last 10 to 15 years, downtown has exploded with a bunch of new buildings. It's become a lot more residential. At 10.30 a.m., independent contractor Jason McCain and his son have been sent to a residence on Yellow Pine Drive in a mobile home community on the north side of town.

The residence had been purchased and had fell into foreclosure. The finance company had hired a cleaning company to go in, clean it all out. When they got there, the neighbor who lived to the right-hand side, to the south side, said, no one's been in that home in like eight, nine months. Upon entering, the cleaning crew is met with a foul odor. They assumed that the bad odor was rotting food from the refrigerator.

There was a Christmas tree half undecorated in the hall and there were calendars and pieces of life left strewn about. It didn't look like anything had been disturbed for months. Out on the screened-in front porch, there was a foosball table, there was a pinball machine, and then there was Star War memorabilia, which again, more indicative of a child being there.

They just started going through the trailer. It was kind of odd because it looked like someone had just picked up and left. They began just going through their business. They photographed and started boxing things up. They saw all over the room, there's little cardboard air fresheners for cars. There were stand-up dial air fresheners all over the counters and closets and the dressers and stuff. As the cleaners make their way through the trailer, the smell intensifies as they approach one of the bedrooms.

They noticed an awful odor in one bedroom, so they decided to do that bedroom last. They started to clean out the entire residence, loading it onto a couple of utility trailers out in the front yard. They did almost probably three-fourths of the house before they got to the last bedroom, which the door was shut. They went into the bedroom, and that's when they came across the mattress with several blankets on top of the mattress. They start trying to gather up the sheets on the blankets, and the guy can't lift it.

They realize that there's something in the blankets, something like wrapped up in the blankets.

So they pick it up, and it sticks to the mattress. He actually said that it felt like Velcro coming apart. And the whole time, they're, like, trying not to throw up because it smells so horrible in there. What the men find next is unlike anything they've encountered before. They pulled the bag up and tossed it to the floor so that they could haul the mattresses out. And when the bag landed on the floor, it tore, revealing a human leg and foot. ♪

was found inside a plastic bag. It had been wrapped in towels and sheets. - 111, what is your emergency? - Over here in St. Pete on clean out foreclosure and I've got a dead body in the house. - Suspicious, sir? What's going on there? - It's wrapped in sheet and it's got five toes. - Alrighty, sir, what I want you to do is back out of the residence right away. I do have units en route at this time.

When St. Petersburg police arrive, they begin with trying to identify the body. Our deputies, they observed the foot coming out of the bag, and they knew that the person was deceased. The body was so decomposed, we could not tell if it was male or female. You could not tell the race. Police pretty quickly knew it had been months, that it was so badly decomposed that it had not just been a few days or weeks.

We are able to check the county records, the tax records for that residence, and that confirms that Barbara Burns and Deborah Burns did own that residence. Two people with the same last name, we suspect that they're sisters, live at that residence. At this point in the investigation, all we have is a deceased body. The sisters were missing, and we have no idea their location or their status.

Barbara Burns was born on June 4th, 1951 in Maryland to a blue-collar family. While she was the third of five children, she was the first girl. She grew up outside of Washington, D.C. Barbara's father worked nights. He was a printer. Mr. and Mrs. Burns had four children within five years. She enjoyed certain movies. She was very likable, very jolly, has a wonderful personality.

The Burns family would spend every summer at Virginia Beach. These were the best times of Barbara's life, swimming in the Atlantic Ocean, running on the beach. In 1964, when Barbara was 13 years old, her youngest sister Debbie was born. And while the family welcomed the addition, Debbie had a rough start to life. When Debbie was two years of age, she contracted scarlet fever.

She suffered a bunch of brain damage and neurological damage and became learning disabled to the point that she never really matured beyond a six-year-old. Barbara's father died shortly after, and Mrs. Burns then became the breadwinner for the family. It was at that time that Barbara was asked to leave school, to leave high school, and help take care of Debbie.

At the age of 15, Barbara's life stopped and her sole focus was to care for Debbie. Little Barbara became her nursemaid, a babysitter person, as well as her sister. That's where everything changed. It's really hard to imagine what it must have been like to be a high school student one day and then a mother the next. I can't imagine that responsibility.

By 1981, the older siblings left the nest, and Margaret Burns and her two youngest daughters moved from Maryland to a small apartment near St. Petersburg, Florida. To make ends meet, Barbara found a minimum wage job at a local restaurant. Barbara was a hard worker. She was always on time, always did what you asked her to do, anything extra. She was a very good employee.

Soon after their move, Barbara was put under even more pressure. Barbara's mother had arthritis and was eventually unable to work. Barbara not only was the caretaker for her sister, she also became the breadwinner of the family. Over the next decade, Barbara continued to be the only source of income and care for the trio, and her personal life was non-existent. She kept to herself. She didn't really talk about herself or anything.

home life. She worked from sunup until the dinner shift came in and then she would go home and make dinner for her sister and her mom. She also worked at a Bell's Outlet, which is kind of like a Florida discount, you know, dress slash department store.

After 19 years of living with her mother and sister, 35-year-old Barbara had to make the difficult decision to put her mother in a nursing home due to advanced Alzheimer's. Sadly, she passed away in November of 2000. But the Burns family would suffer another tragedy soon after. Not so long after the mother passed away, their brother John died.

Though they had been apart, John never forgot his sisters and decided to help them with a large inheritance. Barbara could finally breathe a sigh of relief from the constant financial stress she endured.

When John died, he left $350,000 for the care of Debbie, which sort of absolved Barbara from the financial burden because she'd been bearing that as well, you know, working minimum wage jobs, trying to support both of them. At that point, the two sisters had more money than they'd ever dreamed of. Barbara quit her job and they began taking lavish trips. All of a sudden, they're traveling to California and then they're traveling to Australia and taking a tour all around.

The sisters' biggest purchase was a new mobile home. After spending their lives struggling to get by, Barbara and Debbie wanted a place to call their own. One of the things they did with that money was put a deposit down on an $80,000 mobile home and were paying a mortgage on it.

But tragedy seems to have followed the Byrne sisters once again, as detectives are examining a badly decomposed body and are unsure if they are looking at one of the sisters. There was no way you'd be able to identify the person. Decomposition was too far advanced. No one's reported anyone missing from this address.

Inside the residence, the Pinellas County medical examiner starts by cutting through the plastic encasing. It is wrapped in towels and sheets, which are removed layer by layer and piece by piece. The body is basically mummified. We cannot observe any signs of a struggle or any defensive marks. Despite the extensive decomposition, authorities discover a crucial piece of evidence.

We learned at the crime scene with the medical examiner that there was a single gunshot wound to the forehead. We knew that there was not an exit wound. Once it was a bullet hole in the forehead, they knew it was a homicide. They just didn't know who or why or how or when.

Coming up, as police dig deeper into the sisters' lives, they uncover a troubled relationship. Debbie began hitting Barbara and actually picked up Barbara's beard and dumped it over. And once the victim is identified, a shocking suspect is revealed. She's got some explaining to do as far as why she's cashing her sister's checks in Virginia Beach.

In May of 2005, investigators in St. Petersburg, Florida, find human remains inside the foreclosed home of sisters Barbara and Debbie Burns. At this time, we don't even know that it is one of the sisters. Could the sisters have left and someone else had lived at the residence, like a renter, that wouldn't show up on records? We don't know. We have to get that body identified. That would give us a starting point.

Police believe they're dealing with a homicide, but this clearly was not the result of a robbery. There were no items in the crime scene to suggest that this was a home invasion or a burglary, as items were left behind, the television, cameras. I looked at the crime scene with no forced entry and, you know, nothing really being disturbed. We assumed it was somebody that was let into the house or someone that was actually residing in the residence. ♪

Authorities reasoned that the assailant was trying to cover up what had happened in the home. They were all kinds of air fresheners, you know, everything you could buy over at the counter and plug in and the dial pop-up things and the car automotive ones that you hang on the cardboard. There was boxes of baking soda open throughout the house. There was bowls and potpourri, just anything you could think of to, you know, try to mask the smell of a decomposing body.

The evidence just said that this body has been in this house and someone's been trying to cover it up for a long, long time. Detectives' first priority is to determine the identity of their victim. While they wait for the autopsy results, they start by trying to locate Barbara and Debbie Burns. There's no vehicles belonging to Barbara or Deborah at the scene. After doing a records check, we did find out that Barbara did have a van registered to her, and at this time it was missing from the scene.

We were able to track that car back to the dealership. We made contact with the owner of the dealership. We learned that Barbara and Deborah Burns used to come into the dealership to pay weekly on that vehicle. The office manager remembers the sisters all too well. While they'd been prompt with their payments for months, recently the payments had stopped altogether. ♪

They would come in and make their monthly payments. They even would bring cupcakes into her. A few months later, they were no longer making payments on the van. They attempted to repo the vehicle at the residence. However, the vehicle was no longer there. Then in January, the vehicle was located at the Greyhound bus station down in St. Petersburg. The dealership went and repossessed the vehicle and since then had resold it.

With the van apparently a dead end, investigators hope that the residents of the community might be able to generate a lead. But neighbors explain that the sisters kept to themselves. Most of the neighbors said they'd seen them, you know, coming and going. They were there, they were home a lot, but nobody really knew them. They'd wave to them and maybe say hi to them and talk about the weather, but it was very limited on any type of conversation they had with the owners of the house. They'd been numerous months away

Since the last time we saw Debbie, Barbara Burns, according to the neighbor. While neighbors didn't know much about the Burns sisters, they did offer some crucial information that could help identify the victim. The neighbor said that Debbie only had three teeth and also had scoliosis and walked with a distinct limp. Investigators passed this information along to the Pinellas County Medical Examiner.

In observation of the body, we learned that the subject only had three teeth and a twisted spine. At autopsy, they're going to take bone tissue for mitochondrial DNA testing. After reviewing the DNA results, police are now able to ID the body as 40-year-old Debbie Burns, the youngest Burns' sister. And what's more, they determine the bullet that struck her is a .38 caliber.

Once we ever identified as Deborah Burns, now we want to know, where's Barbara Burns? What's her status? Is she alive? Where is she located at? And she would go to the top of the list as being a person that we need to speak to about this murder. In order to track down Barbara, detectives seek assistance from her former employer.

During our investigation, we were able to identify coworkers at the various places of employment that Barbara Burns had. One of those was Linda Ware that worked with Barbara at a clothing department store. The investigator called me and asked me if I knew a Barbara Burns, and I proceeded to tell him she was an ex-employee. Linda Ware was Barbara's boss at a retail store called Beals Outlets several years earlier.

He asked me if I knew Debbie, and I said, "Yes, I did." And he proceeded to tell me that they had found Debbie dead and asked me to come in for questioning. Linda Ware tells us Barbara Burns worked, and then she took care of her special needs sister. She basically didn't have a life, a social life, outside of the relationship she had with her sister. They were together 24/7 whenever she wasn't at work.

Linda tells investigators that when it came to Debbie's care, Barbara had made incredible sacrifices. Debbie needed to be constantly supervised and was not able to live independently.

Linda explained to us that Debra did not treat Barbara very well at all. Debra was very demanding, very disrespectful, very rude to Barbara. She was bossy to Barbara and mean to Barbara. I seen the mean side when we all went out. I think it was our Christmas party. And while we were out, Debbie wanted to go home. She didn't want to stay any longer. And Barbara was having a good time and wanted to stay a little bit longer.

And Debbie began hitting Barbara and actually picked up Barbara's beard and dumped it over. And so Barbara left before anybody else because Debbie wanted to go home. She was like a child. I don't think Debbie understood things in life. She couldn't understand that she couldn't have what she wanted. She couldn't understand that it wasn't all about Debbie.

Coming up, tensions boil over when the money runs out. Within three years, they blew through $350,000. And is one sister's first shot at love too good to be true? Debbie had a relationship with somebody that she thought was going to marry her. Barbara was concerned that she may have been being taken advantage of.

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24 hours after the remains of Debbie Burns are discovered in her home, Pinellas County investigators are learning about the relationship between Debbie and her sister Barbara. Barbara's former boss explains that the trouble began in 2001 when Debbie and Barbara's brother died and left the sisters a large inheritance. That's when Barbara quit working for me. She came in and told me that her sister inherits quite a bit of money

and that they were going to travel and that she would have to give me a two-week notice. Linda Ware explains that Barbara didn't know how to say no to Debbie. And when Debbie wanted something, Barbara gave it to her to keep her pacified. This was exacerbated by the fact that now the sisters had a large amount of money. Debbie didn't have the impulse control you would expect from someone that age. She wanted it

All, and she wanted it now. Eventually, Debbie demanded her own credit card. And with the boom of online shopping, Debbie was like a kid in a candy store. I went to Barbara's trailer a few months after she had quit the store, and it was filled with toys. It was filled with Star Wars characters, Star Wars games, Star Wars pinball machines. I mean...

more than a collector. I believe that they spent their money on whatever Debbie wanted, whatever she insisted on having. They'd never had money before. They bought that house on Yellow Pine Street, and Debbie was spending the money just daily, buying trinkets and stuff. I told her that she should put the money in a trust and have someone take care of it for them and maybe give them a monthly sum. But she never did.

Linda says in 2003, Debbie started venturing into online chat rooms where she met a man from Miami. Debbie would get online and meet men. And I guess she had a relationship with somebody that she thought was going to marry her. Deborah had met a man online. He was living in Miami. Deborah was mailing expensive gifts down to him in Miami. Barbara was concerned that she may have been being taken advantage of.

Barbara had told me that Debbie had intended on this gentleman coming to their house and meeting her and then getting married. Linda says the internet romance was just a fantasy and that Debbie's Miami connection seemed to be going nowhere as the money continued to run out. They conversed back and forth. She said she had a lot of money and he saw a cash cow. And then when the money was gone, he never talked to her again.

The stories Linda tells police raise red flags. Digging into Barbara and Debbie's financial statements for clues, investigators make a startling discovery. Within three years, they blew through $350,000. By 2004, the inheritance was gone. While the bank records show that Debbie received monthly Social Security checks, it was not enough to keep the sisters' bills paid, so their home went into foreclosure.

Investigators discover that even though Debbie is deceased, someone has been withdrawing cash from her account on a regular basis. During our investigation of her bank records, we learned that Deborah's Social Security disability checks were being sent to a bank in Virginia Beach, Virginia. I think it was $651 a month. Once learning that the money was being taken out at an ATM surveillance video, it was obtained immediately.

And detectives finally locate their star suspect. The person cashing that check each month was identified as Barbara Burns. So now we know Barbara Burns is alive and well, living in another state, cashing her sister's checks.

Bank records also show that Barbara's been depositing checks into the same account from a 7-Eleven. We made contact with the 7-Eleven corporation and found out that Barbara was indeed employed at the 7-Eleven in Virginia Beach and had recently gave her two-week notice. She's got some explaining to do as far as why she's cashing 7-Eleven.

her sister's checks in Virginia Beach. Why would her sister's corpse be left for so many months, you know, in a residence that she used to own? We decided that we want to speak to her, we want to interview her as soon as possible. My partner and I then fly up to Virginia Beach. We drove to the 7-Eleven and conducted a surveillance until we observed her behind the counter working. We knew that she got off at 7:00 in the morning, so we waited for her to make contact with her at the end of her shift.

After finding such a violent scene at her home, detectives aren't sure what to expect when they are finally face-to-face with Barbara Burns. I was just about getting ready to go home, and these two officers was outside waiting for me. And they go, "Are you Barbara Burns?" And I say, "Yes, I am."

We introduced ourselves to her. We explained to her that if she was willing to, we'd like to bring her back to the Virginia Beach Police Department so we could talk to her in a room. I went with them. No arguing or nothing like that. And I did exactly what they wanted.

Barbara did not seem to be concerned by us approaching her. She did not appear to be worried. She voluntarily said she would be glad to come back with us, at which time we put her in her vehicle and we drove back to the PD.

Judy with the Penalty County Sheriff's Office. Present with me is Detective Misty Manning and Barbara Burns. Miss Burns, will you just say your name and your date of birth? It's Barbara A. Burns, June 4th, 1951. Okay. And what state were you born in? Washington, D.C. And where are you currently living at? I'm living in a shelter on Virginia Beach.

While Barbara is forthcoming about her financial struggles, it's not long before investigators are met with deception. Do you have any relatives? No. No relatives at all? No. None at all. Okay. We asked her about the residence that she owned on Yellow Pine Street, and then she said, I never owned a residence on Yellow Pine Street. We were shocked that she took us down a road that we never thought we were even going to cross.

We realized that Barbara knew why we were there, and she was going to try to probably start to try to deceive us. We gotta figure out how somebody would buy this house and have it in your name. Yeah, really. I don't know. I don't understand that. Do you know a Deborah Burns? I don't know a Deborah Burns.

Coming up, police are met with a complicated web of lies. Do you have any siblings? No. No siblings? But would the truth be too hard to handle? They said, is Debbie okay? And then they said, no, Debbie's dead. And they said, you killed her. Detectives investigating the murder of 40-year-old Debbie Burns have located her sister Barbara, who bizarrely claims that she has no siblings at all.

You don't know a Deborah Burns. How about I show you a picture of Debbie Burns? Nice girl, but I don't remember her, honestly. That's your sister. That's the person that you loved. Barbara, at this residence on Yellow Pine, we found a body. A body? Yes.

As detectives continue to press Barbara about her murdered sister, she eventually breaks down. Barbara was becoming emotional and she began to tear up, at which time she finally told us that she did have a sister. I said, is Debbie okay? And then they said, no, Debbie's dead. And they said, you killed her. And I said, I killed her? And I told them, no, I didn't. Debbie and I had a great relationship.

Barbara Burns was saying, well, when I left the residence, I waved goodbye to my sister. And my partner was saying, well, you couldn't have waved goodbye to your sister because she was deceased. Then the interview started to change. This is when she started to show emotional response. That's when they got me on tape saying that I killed her.

this is your chance you want to hear your side of the story okay okay so what happened honestly i can't she just kept me sleeping that's all i've got enough with enough oh you couldn't take it anymore

According to Barbara, after their brother left Debbie $350,000 in his will, their lives were supposed to get easier. But the good times didn't last long. One day I woke up and the money's gone. And I asked Debbie what happened. And then Debbie says she bought a lot of things online. Debbie and I always argue about money. My brother, he left the money for Debbie.

So that left Debbie to be the boss of the money. Debbie didn't understand how the money could be gone because she thought, oh, we're rich. You know, we got all the money in the world. They were not even able to make the payment on the double-wide trailer that they lived in. They had gone from having, basically having it all to having nothing. Barbara realized she had to go back to work, back to making minimum wage. The sisters' codependent relationship fell back into a familiar pattern.

Debbie wanted more money. I told Debbie, you get Social Security once a month. And Debbie said, I want more money every time. It was very hard because Debbie was more controlling then. Debbie and I had never got a break. You know, I need a break from Debbie. Barbara brings investigators back to August 14th, Debbie's 40th birthday.

Barbara had taken her to a restaurant, and while at the restaurant, Debra became upset because Barbara was talking about their financial problems once again. And what did you argue about? Oh, everything. Every little thing. Everything. She needed money all night, and I didn't have the money, and she started yelling. She started yelling? Yeah.

Upon returning home, Barbara says their argument went from bad to worse. So Debbie and I had a very, very bad fight. Fist fighting. That might be a fight so bad, I just couldn't take it anymore. Honestly.

Okay, so you guys are fighting. She finally decides to go to bed. Right. Could you go to bed? I was afraid she'd go wake up and start yelling again. So I decided to just go stay in the living room for a little bit. And then I decided to go to bed. You guys share everything back there? Yeah. Okay. Why did you share the bedroom with her? Because she couldn't stay in the living room. So you didn't have any break from her then? No. Their heads were almost touching when they slept at night, and they fell asleep listening to each other breathe.

After she went to bed, what did you do? I just tried to calm down. Tried to calm down? But it didn't work. Barbara explained to us that when she went to bed that night, laying in bed listening to her sister snore, she knew that once her sister woke up that morning, it was going to start all over again. And Barbara explained to us that she just was not ready to go through that again. She had had it. She went to the dresser where they had a gun that she had bought for protection of her and Debbie.

She went and placed the gun by Debbie's head. And that's when Barbara reveals to investigators the shocking truth. Where did you shoot her? How many times did you shoot her? What do you remember by pulling the trigger? I don't know. I really don't know. But I didn't mean to do it. And you're sorry? Oh, definitely.

If I could do it all over, I would never have shot her. Never. Did you say anything before you shot her? I'm sorry. Despite her recorded confession to police, Barbara Burns now claims she can't explain what transpired that night. It hurts. It hurts really bad. I'm still hurting, you know? I don't know what happened. I don't know. To this day, I still don't know. I still can't remember.

It appeared that Barbara had just been pushed one step too far, and she just could no longer handle being the sole caretaker for Deborah and could not handle taking care of a person that was not respectful or thankful for everything that she was doing. And then I wrapped her up in the plastic. Where's the gun now? In the dresser. I didn't know what to do.

Barbara had taken her minivan to a Greyhound bus station and boarded a bus and gone to Virginia Beach, the last and only place that Barbara had fond memories of growing up.

Coming up, Barbara Burns' tragic confession continues. I've been a reporter for 20-something years. I've never heard of anybody living with a corpse for that long. But would a jury see her side of the story? He said, Barbara, you're looking at death row. On May 9th, 2005, Barbara Burns confesses on tape to killing her sister Debbie.

While clearly traumatized by her own actions, detectives press Barbara to understand the lengths she went to to cover up the crime. The air freshener said weeks, if not months, of someone trying to mask a terrible smell. They were everywhere, everywhere, everywhere in the room where the body was found, and they were also in another bedroom and bathroom where apparently someone else had been sleeping afterwards.

Based on when Barbara began cashing Debbie's checks, investigators believe she left in the beginning of October. If Debbie died on August 14th, Barbara continued to live in the same house as her dead sister for six weeks.

I've been a reporter for 20-something years. I've never heard of anybody living with a corpse for that long. I mean, was she in denial that Debbie was just in there asleep and everything was going to go on as normal? Was she trying to hide it or cover it up? When did you decide it was time to leave? I had a feeling that somebody was going to come and take the house away.

On May 9, 2005, Barbara Burns is charged with murder and extradited back to Florida. As she sits behind bars, detectives look to corroborate her confession.

She was very apologetic about the gun. She told us that she hid it. She unloaded all the bullets and she hid the bullet that she used in the middle of the case of the 50 rounds. And she put that in one of the drawers and she put the gun in another drawer, in the dresser. A detective that was back at our evidence and property room looked in the dresser and found the gun exactly where she said it was at.

My lawyer said, Barbara, you're looking at death row. He said, they're saying that you shot Debbie. And I told him, no, I didn't. I know I didn't because I feel it down deep inside. And then he said, well, I'm going to talk to the judge and see if we can't lower it.

We approached the state attorney's office to see if we could reach a plea agreement. We were able to show that Barbara Burns was not a risk to the public. We were able to show that Barbara Burns, after 40 years of being the sole caretaker of her sister 24/7 for decades, had just snapped.

The state offers Barbara a deal, a 15-year sentence if she pleads guilty to manslaughter. I said, yeah, I'll take it. And we went right to court right then and there. The newspaper people were all over the place, and they were taking pictures and all that. And then the judge said, well, this is your lucky day.

I can understand, you know, you have to worry about the jury hearing all the facts and circumstances and coming to the conclusion that Barbara was this sweet lady who just snapped and deserves a second chance. So I see that side of it. But again, this is cold-blooded murder. After Barbara pled guilty, she was sent to prison. By all accounts, she managed well in prison. She did not get in trouble. For the first time,

time in her life someone else cooked for Barbara. She was free from the responsibilities that were hers and hers alone for 40 years. I'll remember this case forever as the epitome of a good person that did a very, very bad thing. Sometimes circumstances create a devil. They create the breaking point

I don't think Barbara did it because she wanted anything from Debbie. I think she did it because she was pushed to the limits. With time off for good behavior, Barbara is released after 12 years. And in 2018, she moves back to St. Petersburg. But her return is met with mixed reactions. It was hard at first because people started asking me questions and

and I couldn't answer that because I didn't know how to explain it. They told me that I killed my sister and I didn't want to get in an argument with them or anything like that, so I just left it alone. I miss Debbie a lot and I wish she was still alive. I really do. I loved her and I miss her and I wish this never happened to her. Every day when I wake up, I just wanted to see her face. That's what I miss the most.

Barbara now lives in a halfway house. To this day, she maintains that she cannot remember the murder of her sister. Hot shot Australian attorney Nicola Gaba was born into legal royalty. Her specialty? Representing some of the city's most infamous gangland criminals.

However, while Nicola held the underworld's darkest secrets, the most dangerous secret was her own. She's going to all the major groups within Melbourne's underworld, and she's informing on them all. I'm Marsha Clark, host of the new podcast, Informants Lawyer X. In my long career in criminal justice as a prosecutor and defence attorney, I've seen some crazy cases, and this one belongs right at the top of the list. She was addicted to the game she had created.

She just didn't know how to stop. Now, through dramatic interviews and access, I'll reveal the truth behind one of the world's most shocking legal scandals. Listen to Informant's Lawyer X exclusively on Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And listen to more Exhibit C true crime shows early and ad-free right now.