Tasya: Raw Interview
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Hey, it's Britt. If you haven't listened to the full season, you're going to want to start at chapter one. There's some spoilers coming up in this episode. We're busy working on season two of You Probably Think This Story's About You. Over the next few weeks, we're going to share some of the raw interviews from season one. I got into some really deep conversations in these interviews, and there's stuff that we wanted in the show, and we just couldn't fit it in. I'm so excited that you're going to get to hear all of the things that I know.

While you're listening to the bonus episodes, I'm trying to get to your messages as fast as possible. I've heard from so many people that have related to different parts of my story. I'm working really hard to respond to all of your DMs on Instagram, your comments on Spotify, and the messages through my website. Be patient with me. I'm trying to respond thoughtfully to each one, and it's taking a little time.

If you haven't heard back from me, hang tight. If you haven't shared your story yet, you can do so at my website or on Instagram at brittany.ard. Before we jump in, I wanted to address something that keeps getting brought up. Why is my podcast in the true crime category? I've thought a lot about this question and over the last few weeks, my answer has changed. Today, my answer is that true crime doesn't always have a resolution.

The sensationalized stories and other podcasts that pick a case that they can recap from incident to resolution are phenomenal, but not very typical to what happens in daily life. Most relationships don't get closure. The majority of violent crime cases go unprosecuted, and grief is something that never ends. My story is about how I've moved forward in life when I haven't been able to get closure. I needed to share my story.

And I hope that it has given you the courage to share yours. This week, you'll hear the rest of Tasha's story. We meet her in Chapter 6. Tasha and I met in the dating support group about a year after Kanan and I broke up. Tasha was one of the first people Kanan had met when he moved here, and she confirmed he had been in the area for two years longer than I thought. You might hear one of my producers, Corrine, chiming in. She had the lovely task of keeping us on track. Huge shout out to her. It was a rough job.

Here's the full conversation. My name's Tasha and I dated, I know people call him, but he told me his name was, so I called him and I dated him from probably 2019 to kind of middle of 2020, but then it was kind of off and on through 2021. So just a couple of basic questions before we get into the fun parts. Fire away. How long have you lived in Seattle? I moved back in 2019 in August. Okay.

When you came back, did you like start dating apps right away or? Not really. I mean, honestly, I never got off of them. I was in Portland, which is a horrible place to date to. So, I mean. I think it's across the country. It is. I think dating in general is just terrible right now.

But I got up here and then it's kind of like get settled. I had changed jobs and that was kind of a big thing. I was finally back around my family again. So a lot of family time. And then kind of from there was like, all right, let's kind of start dating and get on the apps again, see what's out there. And well, that was one of the first ones. So it worked out really well. Which app did you guys match on? Yeah.

Was it Hinge? It was Hinge for me. And he was his name in his profile on there. Yeah. Mm-hmm.

What initially attracted you when you matched? Well, he's hot. I mean, we can all— We can all agree on that. Yeah, we can all agree on that. He's a gorgeous man, unfortunately. But I think it was more like he was smiling in most of his pictures. He liked to travel. He had a dog, so, you know, like animal lovers. I have cats, so I was like, that's a plus. And he just—

I don't know, sucked you in. Good looking and seems like relaxed. And the dimple. The dimple got me. And the green eyes. Yeah. I mean, you're just screwed. Yeah. Yeah. Very charismatic and makes you feel like made me feel so comfortable so quickly. A hundred percent. I just I didn't even realize.

There was no awkwardness. Like you have first dates and they're, you know, lulls or they're awkward or you're trying to get to know somebody. But never once did I feel awkward with him. Yeah. We went to Ikea for our first date. Yeah. So tell me about your first date because he had just moved here. In our conversation, I was talking about like he was saying I need to furnish my house and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, where have you gone? Yeah.

He didn't really know. And I said, you live out there and you haven't gone to Ikea? Like, that's literally where you should, like, who doesn't go to Ikea to furnish an apartment, right? And he was like, oh, my God, I've never been to Ikea. Mm-hmm. Great. Yeah, sure you haven't. But so I was like, oh, my God, it's my most favorite place. I could, like, live there, whatever. So he was like, would you be willing to go with me? Sure. Let's go. That sounds fun. Yeah. Yeah. And so we go. We walk throughout the entire Ikea. We, like, get some stuff. Yeah.

get some bookshelves and like a dresser and all this stuff. Right. And he, I, he's like, how am I going to get this home? And I like tell him about the shipping like option. He's like, what? And I'm like, yeah. And you can like, if you can't fit it all, you can ship it to your house. And, and I had told him that like my favorite pizza was cheese with like a ton of pineapple on it. It was just like, that's just, you know, I'm a weirdo like that. And so we get back to his house and he had ordered my favorite pizza and

And I'm thinking, my God, that's so sweet. He listened to me. Yeah, he remembered. Like, that's such a random thing to remember, blah, blah, blah. And we put together a bookshelf, by we, I mean me, and opened a bottle of wine and, you know, blah, blah, blah. One thing led to another. And the next morning, he gives me the garage door open or the gate opener for his gated community and says, I really want you to, like, be able to come whenever you want.

And I'm thinking like, no, I'm OK. I don't really need that. He's like, no, no, no. I want you to have it. OK. And what ended up happening with you using the gate opener? Because wasn't there a time? Oh, the first time I was like, hey, I'm getting my hair done in Bonnie Lake.

I'm going to head over afterwards because I'm like in your area. It's like I live in Seattle. You live way freaking hell out here. But I'm down here. So I might as well like come stop by. And he's like, oh, I'm not home yet. And I said, oh, no big deal. I have the gate opener. And he was like, oh, you know, well, the door isn't unlocked. And, you know, like excuse after excuse. And I was like, OK, bro, whatever. Like, I'm just going to go home then. And I ended up just going home because he was busy and wasn't going to be home.

And the next time I saw him, I was like, here's your key. I'm like, I'm not, I don't need this. Yeah. And you had felt guarded sort of in, was that where you were at in life or just, did you feel like there was something off with him? I'm an ever, you know, I'm a recovering pessimist, I guess you could say. So I assume if it's too good to be true, it is.

which serves me well sometimes, not all the time. But little things that he did kind of just like, I don't know if it put me on edge or just I think it was subconsciously. I was like, that's not real. You know what I mean? And the more and more we hung out or the more like things happened, like he would say, oh, I'm going to be in Seattle area. Like I'm going to come by your house at this time. Great. I'll be home from work. And then just would like never show.

And I would call him or text him and he just like wouldn't answer. Right. And so for me, it's like, OK, that's not normal. Yeah. And we're all on dating apps. And, you know, I had tried to have the conversation with him of like, what are we doing here? And he gave me some I mean, I can read you the text where it makes like no sense. He's like, I want a partner where like are basically said I want a partner where our lives don't intersect and nothing like in our lives intersect each other.

But we like enjoy our time together. And my response was, what does that even mean? He was like, well, you just don't understand. Well, you don't understand either, bro, because like you're not making sense. But OK. And so my response at those points were just like, OK, OK. And I think he could tell that I was like not buying the bullshit. So he kind of like started backing away a little bit and dropping carrots of like, oh, I'm in your city. You know, I haven't talked to him in three weeks. And he's like, I'm in your city. I'm going to stop by. And you're going to hold your breath. Yeah.

And every time he wouldn't stop by. I think there was one time he was like, I'm on my way to your house. And I was like, oh, I'm not there. Sorry.

Because I'm like, I'm not going to sit around and wait for you to not show up, which you've done multiple times. So like, you know, if I'm home, I'm home. Great. If not, then so sorry, bro. He so many times would be like, oh, have you heard of they have a restaurant that they have in the middle of the stadium? You know, in the off season, you can like go and whatever. Yeah. And then any experience. Yeah. And he would bring it up and be like, it's so cool. We should definitely go and do it. And then.

Never do it. Never hear about like, and there's 50 different things that he would be like, oh my gosh, did you hear that? You know, this is happening or we should go to a Seahawks game and then just. Do you know why he does that? Because he wants you to plan it and you to pay for it and you to do all the things. And if you do that. He'll go. He'll go. Yeah. But if you don't do any of that, it's just like a not a thing. Yeah. So you're like, okay, bruh. Yeah. Like.

I asked him once, you know, we haven't, we've never like gone out to dinner. We've never had like a proper date in reality. And he's like, well, that's not really important, is it? I'm like, I mean, it is. Like hanging out in my living room watching Dateline with me or like me coming to your house is, are we doing friends with benefits? Like, what are we doing? He's like, no, I don't do that. Okay. Yeah.

Well, you're doing it. Yeah. Well, I think he had all the benefits, but not the friends, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was talking to one of the other women, and we realized it when we were talking. I was like, I think he's who started COVID. Like, he had to have, like, spread COVID. I mean, Washington was the first case in the state in the West. Because, like, everyone's supposed to be quarantined, and it was a revolving door at this man's house. Yeah.

And I'm sure you told everybody that no one's come over and blah, blah, blah. I was the second woman that ever was at his house. Oh, according to him? Yeah. Oh. For sure. And I think everyone has been the second woman to ever be at his house. So I was the lucky first? Apparently. Oh, thank God for me.

Well, and when you first, when we first connected and I saw your name, it was interesting because he told me that his brother and sister-in-law lived in Texas and like had these kids or whatever. But...

Her name was Tasha. And he had her Hulu account, right? Yeah. And at one point, did you kick him off? Yeah. Yeah. So at one point when we were dating, he was like, yeah, my brother and sister-in-law kicked me off of Hulu. And it's ridiculous. And like had this whole big, like dramatic story and was all butthurt that, you know, his brother had kicked him off of Hulu. And so when I first saw your name, because that's how he spelled it, I was like,

And no one spells it like that. This motherfucker. No one spells it like that. Yeah. Like. And, you know, more of the pieces just sort of fell in. Yeah. What. So as we've talked about, there are many different stories about his wife. What did he tell you about her? He told me that he was in Atlanta in the military.

Or in like the Atlanta area. And she had gotten in a car crash and died in Hawaii. And his son was in Hawaii alone, basically. Like grandparents were there, I think, but his son was basically alone. So he had to get honorably discharged from the military and move back to Hawaii to take care of his son until he graduated. Isn't that the sweetest thing? Thank God for him. Or what would his kid do, right? You know, I'm so glad his wife was resurrected because, I mean, that's just good for the kid. Well, it,

Yeah, at least in your version, she wasn't, you know, a drug addict and all sorts of other issues. I believe that he came from San Diego to Honolulu, not Atlanta. Oh. As well. Just as far as some of the some of the timelines that we have.

Sorted it out. And he was medically discharged from the military. Oh. Oh. So. Mental illness is a real thing. They recognized it, I'm sure. And what do you know about his children? I know he has a son.

that plays football because he kept telling me, I really want you to come to one of his games because I have a lot of friends that, you know, played professionally or now train and like all that stuff. Right. So we talk about football all the time. I'm a huge football fan. He'd be like, oh, yeah, I would love for you to come to one of my son's games like, you know, blah, blah, blah. And then every time his son would have a home game, I'd be like, I'm down to go. Oh, not this game, not this game.

Okay, whatever. And then I just stopped asking, I think, after the second or third time. And I think he said he had a daughter that he doesn't really have a relationship with. Oh, he does have a daughter that he doesn't have a relationship with. But I think other than the previous girlfriend in Hawaii, you're the only one that he has told that to. And I believe it's because it was when he was just settling in Seattle. Like he was still sort of

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from the military that lives in Ballard or somewhere close by. Oh. Because he used to tell me, oh, I'm going to party at my old, like, you know, military friend's house, blah, blah, blah. I'm going to try and come over, but, you know, he likes to, like,

go down memory lane and drink hard and blah, blah, blah. And I'd be like, okay, well, just let me know. And now I'm thinking... It was not. I don't know of any... I'm sure it was a friend. Yeah, yeah. But I don't think it was your military guy friend that you go down memory lane with. Yeah, I think all of the guys that he was really close with in the Marines are still in San Diego. When we were dating, he had a military friend that lived in Shoreline. Oh. And so I'm pretty sure that that's code. Mm-hmm. So...

Yeah. Checks out. Did he talk to you about his time in the military? Not really. I didn't really ask, to be super fair. Like, I just didn't care. I think at that point, again, it was very, like, I think looking back, I subconsciously knew something was, like, up. But—

He's just so dang good looking and charismatic that you kind of are just like, oh, whatever. So I don't feel like I asked enough questions or like dug deep enough. I think I just was kind of like, yeah, whatever. Yeah, whatever. Yeah, whatever. After a while. And then I got to the point where I was like, I'm not going to like beg you to come over. I'm not going to beg you to talk to me. I'm not going to let you like get mad at me for weird random things to like start a fight, quote unquote, and then be able to like not talk to me for a while.

So I think like I really started to shut down and just be like, I've been through this before. I can't do this anymore. I would tell him, hey, I don't think it's fair that I'm continuously coming down to see you and you haven't come up to see me. Like it's been three trips down and no trips up.

And he would say, you don't understand. I'm so busy with my kid and blah, blah, blah. And in my head, I'm thinking, your kid lives in—bro, what are you busy doing? Like, stop it. And I would tell him that. And he's like, you don't understand what it's like to have kids. And if this is how you're going to be, then maybe we need to take a break. You know? And then he wouldn't talk to me for like a week. And then something would pop up or he'd say like, oh my gosh, I saw a Dateline episode. It reminded me of you. And I'm like, bro—

I watch Dateline, like, for a living every day. Every episode will probably remind you of me. Like, stop it. So just little things like that. Or, like, I would ask him, what are we doing? Like, what is this? And he'd be like, you keep questioning this and just let things happen. And I'm like, okay. Or, you know, I would say, hey, like, I really want to go out to dinner. And he's like, you're always pushing this whole we need to go out to dinner thing. Why is it so important?

well, why is it so hard to do? Like, I'm not understanding like where the issue is here. So just like weird things like that where you're like, you're starting a fight out of nowhere. And like, I just don't care enough to fight with you. So my response started to just be, okay, period. Okay, period. And then that would make him mad. Okay, you don't care. Like,

What do you want me to do? Yeah, the gaslighting and, you know, trying to sort of run you up. Yeah. Is just... And I think he started to get really mad when I just wouldn't give him a reaction anymore. Yeah. I would just say, okay. And he'd be like, you don't care. And I just like wouldn't respond. Because there's no winning in that situation. You don't care about this relationship that you don't even know what it is. You know, I mean... I've asked you six times what we're doing here. You can't tell me, but now I don't care. Right. Like...

Figure it out, dude. Yeah. Also, you're not busy. Yeah. Well, and we know that so many of the things at his place, like, decorated his bathroom. And this was his—did he move houses when you guys dated? So it was after. Yeah. If he moved, I didn't know. So he moved to Tacoma. Yeah.

And sort of same thing, like she went and helped decorate that house. And like every time I went into that main bathroom on like the guest bath, I was like, a woman did this. Like it's so obvious. Yeah. Like you're not, I've seen your apartment before you decorate, bro. You're not good at this. Yeah. At all. Let's see. Yeah.

Tell us about the New Year's Eve that you guys spent together. That's the first New Year's Eve I have like spent with. Like the first New Year's Eve kiss I've had with someone I'm dating. Like ever. And I told him that. I was like, this is kind of a big deal. Like my best friend and her husband are going to come over. It's going to be a low-key New Year's Eve because I'm not like a big New Year's Eve person. I just don't care that much. I'm not in my 20s anymore. So I can't like party and, you know, pay the $20 cover to go somewhere that's free 364 days of the year. So, yeah.

I had told him multiple times, like, this is a big deal to me. Like, this means something to me. Right. And he kept being kind of wishy-washy in the beginning of like, I think I'm going to make it. I think I'm going to make it. I'm like, if you don't think you're going to make it, just let me know. Because like I told you, this is like something really important to me. It means a lot to me that you're going to come and like spend this time with me. And so he was like, I'll be there. I'll be there. I'll be there. And he went somewhere else first and then came over.

And he went to his military friend's house first. So I'm thinking he went somewhere else now, right? And he came over about like 9.30 or 10. And my best friend and her husband had never met him before. You know, he was so great with them and, you know, told them how great I was and how he just didn't know how he was so lucky to meet someone like me, you know, just moving to Seattle and blah, blah, blah. And

Even my best friend, who has a pretty good radar for like bullshit, was like, I think I really like this guy. I was like, yeah, I do, too. And, you know, we cheers at midnight on my balcony because I overlook South Lake Union. And, you know, we kissed and he ended up spending the night and it was, you know, whatever. And then the next morning we like I made breakfast and then he was like, OK, I got I got a jet. I'm like, OK. And it was probably like nine thirty or ten.

And I was like, I'm hung over as hell. Like, I don't know how you're just like up and about it. And he was like, yeah, I just got to get home. And mind you, he didn't have his dog at the time. So there was nothing for him to need to go home to. And I was just like, oh, okay. So he kind of like gathered up his stuff and rushed out. And that was, that was like the end of it. And even like after midnight,

I mean, we were hammered, right? And I was like, I'm so tired. I'm going to bed. So I went to bed before the rest of them. And he sat out there and talked to my best friend and her husband for probably another hour. And she's telling him, hey, be careful with her. You know, she doesn't open up. She doesn't trust people that much. She's been hurt before. She's been single for basically like 11 years because she just doesn't, it just doesn't happen for me for some reason. I'm sure it's probably a lot of me. But anyways, and he was crying.

you know, reassuring her, no, I've, you know, I've never felt this way about someone and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And she's telling me this the next day. And I'm like, oh, wow. And this is still early in us like dating. Right. And so I'm like, wow, this guy might have potential. Maybe I'll like, you know, really give it a chance and blah, blah. And then the whole like not showing up when he says he's going to, you know, gaslighting when I say why we can't go to dinner happened like yesterday.

literally at the end started happening at the end of January and I'm thinking you went from I've never felt this way about anybody to I can't even take you out to dinner okay like okay bruh I'm picking up what you're putting down right yeah so um

So we connected later than I have with some of the other women. What ran through your mind when you saw his picture? I laughed. Yeah. I instantly laughed. And I actually screenshotted it and sent it to our group chat of my best friend that was there on New Year's Eve and my other best friend. And I said, about time this dude showed up. Like laughing, right? Laughing with them. And I hadn't read any of the comments yet.

And, of course, so my other friend who—one of the other best friends, not the married one, is in that group, too, right? And so she jumps on and she looks. She goes, have you read the comments? I'm like, oh, no, not yet. So I start reading through, and I'm like, okay, I wasn't crazy. This dude is a piece of shit. Like, all the things that I thought were real, basically, like—

It was like reaffirming and like, okay, it wasn't me in that relationship. It wasn't me. I'm not the reason that it didn't work. Like, I feel almost vindicated, right? And like all the things that I'm like, you know, he said he really was into me and all of a sudden he's not. Like, what did I do? What could I have done different? I thought I was being supportive. Maybe I should have been more and all this stuff. And like reading that, I'm like, oh, okay. It was a lose-lose situation from the beginning and I should have just like

kept my mindset what it was in the very beginning of like, you're fun, you're okay in bed, like, whatever, we'll just do this. I think getting to talk to the other women, that's been the biggest thing for all of us is like,

Oh, we're not. It's not us. We're not crazy. Yeah, it's not us. Yeah, we're not making things up like he says we are. Right. Like, you're just making me be the bad guy. Yeah. No, you are the bad guy. Yeah. When I broke up with him after I found out that he had been sleeping with somebody else, before I found out any of this other stuff, he was like, you're just listening to your friends. You know, you're trying to blow this up. I'm going to love you no matter what, forever, you know, and all of this stuff. And I'm like, no.

No, you know, but it I mean, the gaslighting was. Oh, yeah. So he's almost charismatic in his gaslighting. And so you're just like, oh, you know, he doesn't do it. He's not yelling at you. No, you know, it's and he's really good at using your words against you. Yeah.

Yeah, it's interesting because he was the best and worst boyfriend all at the same time. Like he made you feel so special and stuff, but you didn't go out and like he didn't plan things. And there isn't some of that other stuff that you not expect, but should be a part of that process. Even getting to know people with me.

He talked a lot about his stuff. And I want to say like four months in, he said, we were sitting on his couch talking about something. It was probably related to his son. And he asked me a question and I was like, well, you don't really know me. Because, and in that moment I was like, you don't really ask questions about me or you don't really know what I do for a living. And so all of the future planning and all of the love bombing and all of that stuff was his stuff.

experience in the relationship and what he was getting out of it. Oh, yeah. So, and I don't know if you cook, but apparently all of us routinely, like if I made a lasagna or whatever, I'd make an extra one and drop it off because he was so busy and he just didn't have time. You know, I don't cook. I barely cook for myself. So, yeah.

But I would like order food for us. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. There was one time where he had a conference call with the coaches.

at his son's thing. And so I had come down to Tacoma and he was like, oh, I have to step on this conference call. Like you got to give me an hour. And in hindsight, I'm positive somebody was there. He was trying to get out the door, but I had stopped at Matador to, you know, I was like, okay, I'm gonna stop and eat and get a glass of wine. And kind of on purpose, I

You know, I was like, I got my food and I ate there. And then he was like, I'm done. Went over and he was like, you didn't bring me anything. And I was like, well, A, you didn't ask. And B, no. Like, if you'd like to go get some food, you're more than welcome to. But those were some of those times where same thing. It was recognizing and trying to sort of see. But also at the same time, like, I'm not going to drop $50 on a taco for you.

You know, because you just made me wait for an hour, you know, because you're busy. Yeah, he always was so busy. So busy. Do you know what about his work? Like, did he talk about his work? I know he talked about that a lot and how he came in and basically like fixed the program because it was just in shambles and like people were not able to do their job and all that. Like he's the hero of the day and, you know, blah, blah, blah. Yeah.

Which, of course, in the moment, I'm like, oh, yeah, oh, good for you. Like, you know, he's like, they recruited me. They wanted me there. They needed me there. And I'm like, yeah, great. Now, from what I hear, he was the problem in the workplace, not the solution. So that was when he, before his current job, that was when he first moved here. That's what he was doing. And then now his current job, we've, you know, spoken to a co-worker and it's,

It's very much the opposite story at his current job and I'm assuming at his old one. Former job, yeah. I mean, he always had issues with coworkers. Yeah. He would tell me about. Yeah. You know, they don't like me because, you know, I put my foot down and I stand up in meetings and, you know, looking back, I'm like, I'm sure you were just a dick. Yeah. You know, or you probably hit on all the women. Right. And made them either feel uncomfortable or feel really special and then do what you've done to every single one of us.

So, of course, I'm going to hate your guts if I have to work with you. Right. Right? Like, come on, man. Yeah, it seems like regardless of whether it's like a personal relationship or a work relationship, like he does this to everyone. I am so curious to know how his relationship really is with his son. I don't think it's good. You know, because I think that he came back when his son started taking off in football. And I think that's huge for him. But...

In a sense of, you know. He's living through his son. For sure. Even more so than most. Because he couldn't make it. Right. In the NFL. He didn't even make D1. Right. We talked about it all the time. He's like, oh, I was injured. I'm like, so was I. I was a D1 athlete. Did he tell you he was a preemie? No. No. Okay. Yeah.

There's it's sort of like hit or miss. It's sort of 50 50. But when if he did tell you he was a preemie, he brings it up all the time. Like this is why I can't make my own lasagna because I'm a preemie. And in the moment, it's cute. Like in the moment, you're like, oh, you know, here. Yeah. And then in hindsight, it's it's I'd be curious to see.

hear what his or to see slash understand what his relationship with his mom and dad were growing up yeah because the way the way he is so good at love bombing and so good at the minute he meets you it's like he can trigger he can pinpoint exactly what you need to hear like he can have a two-minute conversation and be like that she needs to hear this this and this and she's in

And it's, you know, sad to say, but like that is a talent used in the correct way. You're running the world. Right. But used to manipulate and just have a, you know, a herd of women or I can't think of the word. Harem, yeah. Harem of women. Like, bro, first of all, you're wasting your talents. Yeah. Second of all, every one of these relationships is going to be a dead end. Like you're never going to achieve what you want.

And you're constantly going to be going in a circle and doing the same thing and same thing. And there's going to be many women like this doing podcasts about you because you can't figure it out. Like, use your powers for good. It's amazing how painful hindsight is sometimes. Because when you're in it, it's just so easy to get caught up in all of the

All the good feelings that even if you are aware or you're smart enough to sort of see the signs or you've gone through it before, you're like, oh, not this time, like not this person. Or this is my trauma that's thinking this, you know, this person would never make me, you know, would never lie to me or. Well, and narcissists are so good at starting small. And it's just like, I'm slowly going to do this to you.

Because I'm going to emotionally and mentally manipulate you. And I'm going to slowly plant seeds so that in the future, I won't even have to say anything. If something goes wrong, you're automatically thinking it's you. Because I've already conditioned you to think, well, it can't be her or it can't be him. It's definitely me. I'm doing it again. Right. And so to get out of that, you know, you hear that for 5, 6, 7, 10, 11, 12 years. Right.

How would you not change, right? I mean, my brother's reading a book where they talk about how being in a relationship with a narcissist actually changes your brain chemistry. And it's nearly impossible to change it back. I mean, it takes like years of work. And hard work to change it back. And so then in your next relationship or interaction with other people, you're constantly fighting almost that

comfort in that same behavior and or trying to fight against being okay with that same behavior. And it's exhausting. Well, yeah. And, you know, how do you explain to your next partner, like, hey, I'm trying not to bring in my, like, past trauma and baggage, but, like, it's going to be there. And you're going to have to deal with it if you want to, like, be with me, but also, like, I'm sorry, but also I'm not sorry. But, like... I'm currently... We were just talking about it. Started dating somebody and...

And I was like, no, I it's not that I don't trust that you aren't sleeping with other people. I don't trust when you say I have a brother that lives in Colorado. Like you say that and I'm like, sure you do. Yeah. What's her name? You know, and it's ridiculous. But also, like, I want to not be that way. But same time, I'm like, am I just setting myself up?

to have this all happen again. And so then it's this, you know, loop circle. And I've told him, like, you're going to have to be very patient. If you, if you want to pursue this, you are going to have to be patient. And I think people don't understand what that patience actually looks like. Right. Because, you know, everybody's like, oh, you're so awesome. Of course, I'll be patient. You know, and then like the second, third week of you being like,

Mm hmm. Yeah. Like, OK, nothing I say you believe. And you're like, it's not that. I'm sorry. It is that. But it's it's not you. Yeah. It might be you. You might be the problem. I don't know yet. Right. And who's to say like you don't do it to me, too. And then I'm like, well, dang, double double whammy. And now what? Yeah. You know, it's just like continuously, you know, building blocks. So it's to the point where they ruin people. I mean, ruin people. Yeah.

And to no fault of the people. You know, they ruin people with good hearts, open hearts. Yeah, people that care more than most people. That have greater empathy. And, you know, I think we all know narcissists don't feel empathy. Right. You know, it's one of the building blocks of being the best narcissist possible. Like, you cannot care about the feelings. You cannot feel that.

So it's really sad to see the wake they leave. And they just walk among us. And you'll never, ever get them to see what they've done. It wouldn't matter if you literally had a video of him lying about everything multiple times. He'd be like, I didn't say that. We're going to try and get him to come in. We're going to give him some audio and I'm going to see if he wants to have a conversation. Tell his side.

of the story. I pray. I pray that he does. I know. Yeah. I mean, the litany of excuses. I could run you down exactly what he's going to say now. Maybe we should do like a game show and try and know what we'll say. There you go. I'll take I never said that for 200. That's not what I meant. Yeah. Okay. Is there anything else that... I want to know how it ended with you.

It was kind of one of those, we just kind of slowly ghosted each other. I stopped putting in the effort. And part of that was because I wanted to see. So I just kind of like took steps back and I wouldn't text him, you know, good morning, or I wouldn't text him for a week. And it slowly rolled into, he would text me every like, you know, couple weeks of, hey, he texts me and said, oh, did you change your Hulu password? And I said, yes. You know, like little things like that. And then it just kind of eventually like,

I think, to be honest, I drunk texted him one night and kind of went off on him is what I remember. And then he just never really responded. And I just deleted my whole conversation with him and everything. And I blocked him and I was like, I'm done. Like, I don't need this in my life anymore. But it was very much a slow ghosting, I think, on both sides. Me trying to see, like, is he really interested? And him probably being like, whew.

I went off the roster. I can give some more time to, you know, three, four, and five over here, right? So it didn't end bad or good. It just kind of ended. Do you ever think about him aside from not liking him? Like, do you find that you have feelings from time to time? No, I don't even think I don't like him. I think he just doesn't exist to me anymore. He'll pop up on, like, my time hop, like, random things like that, and I'll laugh.

because it'll be like a picture he sent to me and now looking at it I'm like how many people did you send that to or like when was this picture even taken it was just like one of your stock you know selfies that you're like when someone's like oh what am I what are you doing you're like hey yeah so just like laughing about or laughing at like my time hop will pop up like screenshots of the text conversations I've had with him and I just read it and I'm like

I was such an idiot. You know, like, come on. I gave them my text messages, our whole entire relationship in text message. And when I was rereading it, I was like, I'm so disgusted in myself. You don't, yeah. But in the moment, it was amazing. I mean, I was having this amazing relationship. And he was very, with me, he's very, like,

we're going to get married. And I mean, it was, we had a whole future planned. And I had told him, yeah, I had just been divorced. And I was like, I'm not ready to get married. And he was like, you know, the timeline of that doesn't matter, but we will, you know, one day we'll be married. And which is really hard to do when you're

Already married, currently. Did go for one of the games and conveniently did not meet his son. His son had to go off after the game. So, like, we drove all the way out there, and then I never met his son. And so, I'm sure his son didn't know I was there. You know, I— Oh, 100%. My question on that is, like— What?

What happens when you get to the point of like, OK, maybe you do stick around for a couple of years because he keeps promising you marriage and a future. Like, how do you get out of that? At what point do you like hard left out of that? Well, and I think that's what he does is just.

And so, like, he had a girlfriend for three years before he moved to Seattle. They were living together. They were looking at buying houses together. And there had been issues of him cheating, but they'd sort of, same thing, gaslit her.

And then she said, and then one day he picked a fight and moved to Washington. He already had a job and a place to live. Like he had been... Unbeknownst to her. Yeah. He had been planning this whole thing. Yeah. They were together for three years. She only knew about the daughter. How do you, how, how do you hide him? Isn't that... I'm telling you, use your powers for good, man. This dude, if he wasn't such a narcissistic piece of, you know what, like...

That is baffling to me. Yeah, it's a little impressive. I'm surprised there's not a Netflix series on him yet. Yet? That's what I'm saying. Working on it. I know. All I'm saying is this is, I just feel like the pool is just going to go like this. And it's going to be, I mean, I will watch that series. I'm just waiting for the day where he gets involved with the wrong woman. And she's either crazy or...

and kills him because I don't think that that wouldn't happen. You know what I mean? You're messing with so many women mentally.

And women are going and you're love bombing them and you're getting them into a vulnerable position where they're thinking, this man loves me. This is my future. This is the rest of my life. I'm putting everything into you, my money, my future, my house, my everything. And he does a hard left on them. Like you're either going to end up on a date line or a snapped like that's going to happen. And and I don't want to say I'll feel sorry for him because I don't think I will. But I'll feel sorry for the woman.

Because we all know that in reality, that's his fault. Yeah. You've driven that woman to the breaking point.

Well, and rewired her brain. A hundred percent. I mean, you could take a totally normal person. We just had my dad in here before this, and he was talking about like the way I reacted after we split is unlike any way I've ever been after. I've been divorced twice, and it's like, oh—

That was awful. Yeah. Now let's keep going. But the months after we broke up, my brain was just fried. Totally fried. It's emotionally exhausting. You question yourself on everything. Everything. Everything.

And then how do you get back to quote unquote normal? Well, what is normal anymore? And then once I started learning more, I was like, every conversation was a lie. Or was it a lie? Like which parts? And there's no way for me to ever know. Which is the worst part. Baffling six months. Well, one of the things, one of the greatest things that I've gotten out of this is

getting to meet all of the other women. He has excellent taste in women. I mean, give him a point for that, right? I mean, everybody has just been like so strong and intelligent and beautiful. And we all fell for it. Well, I'd rather be a good person falling for it than a, you know. Yeah.

Even my pessimism didn't keep me out of it. So no one's safe. Like I said in the beginning, I think I was one of the lucky ones because I was one of the first Seattle ones. So I kind of saw the shift subconsciously. So I think I got out a lot earlier than most did, which I feel terrible about for everyone else. But, you know, selfishly, I'm like, man, dodged a bullet. Because good Lord. So praise these women for standing up and just saying,

you know, fuck you. You're not taking my dignity and my pride. So, you know, sooner or later, like I said, he'll meet the wrong one and all of us will go, mm-hmm.

I think the good thing about this day and age is that not only are women, you know, not afraid to stand up and speak out about this kind of things, but we're so much more supportive of other women going through it. And I think, you know, 10, 15 years ago, a lot of women would have just said, I'm not talking about it. Let's move on. And I think, you know, we have to give ourselves credit for that of being like, you know, one tribe, one mind and just saying like,

It is not you. It is him. And allowing us to like have that voice and say, this is not okay. You know? Well, and I hope this gives people something they can relate to or they see that in their own dating experiences and gives them the tools to sort of, oh, that's a red flag. I should turn around and walk away instead of walk around it. Yeah.

which is what I did over and over and over again. And not feel guilty for calling it out. If it's a red flag to you, it's a red flag to you. If it's not to the next person, then whatever. But be okay saying, that's a red flag for me, and I'm not going to allow that, instead of saying, I don't want him to not like me because I'm calling him out. Well, and if there is a red flag and you express that and they come back at you,

that's the bigger red flag. Now we're just adding to the poll, right? Yeah, because if it is somebody that understands or cares why that's a red flag to you, they're going to want to talk to you about it. They're going to be like, that wasn't, you know. Yeah, let's work on it. They're not going to make you confused. They're going to make you comfortable. The joys of dating.

You probably think the stories about you is a production of large media. That's L-A-R-J media. Our executive producer is Brittany Ard. Our showrunner is Sid Gladue. Creative direction by Tina Knoll. Our associate producer is Kareem Kiltow. Sound engineering by Chris Young and Sean Simmons. Graphic design by Najella Shama. Opening theme by Youth Star and Miscellaneous. If you want to know more about Britt, follow her on social media. You can find her at Brittany.com.

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