Introducing Crimes of the Heart
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Hey, it's Britt. I'm dropping a new show into the feed this week that I think you'll really like. It's called Crimes of the Heart. This show is a love and dating podcast with a true crime twist. Sound familiar? It's different than my show, but follows the same themes. The host Rory Uphold speaks with author and unqualified...

but highly skilled secret agent, Gabriel Stone, about what to do when your husband cheats on you. They talk about potential warning signs, getting back in the dating pool after a breakup or divorce, and how you can turn the worst thing that happened to you into a best-selling book that helps other women struggling along the way.

Hey guys, I'm Rory, which means I'm not your typical host because I host a podcast called Crimes of the Heart. It's a love and dating podcast where I take crazy, crazy love and dating stories and turn them into true crime inspired reenactments. And today's episode features an all too common crime. So I had to get a guest on that has a lot of experience with this particular crime.

She amassed well over a million followers on TikTok when she wrote about this experience.

Since then, she's become a best-selling author. She's an actress. She's a writer. She's a producer. She's truly a delight. And today, she is my guest host. So please welcome Gabrielle Stone to Crimes of the Heart. Hi. Welcome to Crimes of the Heart. Thank you for having me. I feel like today's story is something that you will probably really relate to. Girl, yes. Let's dig into it. Okay. Hit it. Okay.

The names in the following episode have been changed to protect the innocent and the guilty. ♪

I mean, he literally fucked me in every way other than vaginally. I was at the lowest point of my life because I knew what was happening and I didn't want it to be true. This is Jill. We meet Jill in her late 20s, a little more than a year into her relationship with her boyfriend, Jack. So I was

I was approaching 30 and as most women approaching 30, they're thinking about is the guy that I'm dating currently gonna be the guy that I marry? And you know, all my friends around me were getting married and some of them were starting to have kids. So it just felt right.

Our story takes place in Santa Cruz, California. Jack proposes to Jill and... It was magical. The proposal was amazing. And I was just ready to spend the rest of my life with him. They get married, they buy a house, and they're planning on starting a family. Yay!

He actually had a kid, so I was automatically stepmom, but at the same time I was popping my birth control. Because I wasn't ready to have a kid, and so we talked about when a kid would enter the chat, right? A little background. Jack's best friend of 20 years is a bro-tastic party boy named Kyle. Oh, God.

He had no filter. He was just the guy that was like, you shake your head and you're like, oh my God. He's married to Renee, his wife of nine years and the mother of their two kids. However... I always just had a weird feeling about her. She was too touchy-feely towards Jack. Jack owns his own construction company, and he had been looking for a job

been looking for someone part-time to help out with admin. We are a year into Jack and Jill's marriage, and Renee has just been let go from her job. So Jack offers to hire her full-time. "This is bad. This is really bad." "Yeah, I know it's bad, okay?"

And as soon as he told me that he was hiring her, I did not like it. I also thought it was just such a waste of money because he was going to be paying her way more than what this role needed. So it was basically like a charity case, in my opinion. Like, he was just doing them a solid favor. Jack and Jill and Kyle and Renee live a mile away from each other. So every morning, Jack picks up Renee and they drive to work.

They spend eight hours a day, five days a week together, which seems like a lot of time for a job that only needed her part-time. We were always affectionate. We were pretty sexual. He would always say, I love you. I mean, everything was fine. Until one day, it wasn't.

It started off small. That's what she said. We would be laying in bed and like our feet wouldn't touch anymore. Jill knew that something wasn't right. Women have something, we have a superpower. It's called intuition. I just know. And at times it is way stronger. So my intuition kicked in and I just started having a bad feeling about her working with him. They never fought, but...

As time went on, Jack's affection started to dwindle. So that was one red flag. And then their communication started to wane. He just stopped texting me throughout the day, stopped sending me cute messages. He was just a whole different person. Anytime Jill tries to bring up these changes or her concerns about Renee, Jack dismisses her.

So she does her best to keep him happy and to get their relationship back on track. Because after all, Renee was the wife of his best friend. Fast forward one month.

Jack heads to San Francisco for an installation that will take five days. Normally, when Jack travels for work, he texts Jill all day and they... Would be talking on the phone until we went to sleep. But on this trip... We just never talked. Or we would talk a little bit during the day and he's like, all right, talk to you tomorrow. This raises serious alarm bells for Jill.

But... I was just giving him the benefit of the doubt because I was thinking there was no way that he would have brought her, the office girl who's writing invoices, on this work trip. Like, there's no way. What would she be doing there? Do you really want to know? And so I started talking myself out of it. Jill struggles through the week and tries to let go of the gnawing feeling inside of her. But she can't. So one day, while Jack is at work, she decides to look at the texts on his Apple Watch. ♪

I didn't see anything from her, but there was one message that was from a guy that he brought on the trip. The message said, yeah, we will be right down to the guy that was on the trip. And I'm like, who is he talking about? It was supposed to just be him and the guy on the trip. So then I said, all right, this is fishy. I'm going to call the hotel he was at.

Jill calls the hotel and asks for the final folio, and they email it to her. And it is two rooms. That checks out. It should have been him and his coworker. What didn't check out was one of the rooms where it was a suite. Suite. What also didn't check out is there was bottles of wine that got ordered to the room every night. Not suite. Now look, we drink wine, but we drink a couple glasses here and there.

So the fact that there was bottles ordered to a suite? Okay, something's up.

So, Jill calls Kyle and asks him if he knew that Renee had gone on the work trip with Jack. And he was like, yeah, duh. Kyle tells Jill that Jack and Renee had FaceTimed him the entire trip. And when Jill raises concerns, he tells her she's acting crazy. So, Jill calls Jack. She asks him if he took Renee on the work trip. And he tells her he did not.

You're such a liar. Jill tells him that she got the folio from the hotel and he's like, I like wine. He's like, what, now I can't drink? Jack continues to gaslight her until Jill, point blank, tells him that she knows Renee was on the trip. Then she says, I'm gonna ask you again and you're gonna come clean. Was she there? He hangs up.

Now, I have a couple options here. I can go crazy on him. You was a crazy bitch. Which I wanted to, right? Or I can try to be strategic and, like, see how much I can get out of him. I went crazy on him. Woo-hoo!

I think most of us would. She calls back and screams at him, in her words, going psycho. She calls him names and accuses him of being a liar and begs him to come clean. Instead, he kept lying and lying and denying and denying and not basically set the stage for the rest of this entire affair. This was the first of many betrayals and the beginning of...

of the worst six months of Jill's life. Jill decides she needs to catch Jack in a lie and prove that he is having an affair. So I'm a Gemini, but I lived a complete Gemini life for six months. I was trying to catch him, but at the same time, I didn't want it to be true. Deep down in my heart, I wanted to save our marriage, right? I was putting on this act where everything was fine, but at the same time,

I was like really trying to be the secret agent and catch him. Jill buys a GPS tracking device from a spy store online and attaches it to the bottom of Jack's car.

And... That began my unhealthy relationship with just me glued to my computer and my phone watching them go day drinking in the area. She watches as they have long dinners after work and tries to convince herself that this is okay and that this is helping her get closure. I was obsessed. At work, I had two screens. One screen I was working, the other screen I was tracking.

Jill continues to question Jack about the lies she catches him in and asks him if he's having an affair, but he denies it and starts to double down. He started to say, no, like, you're crazy. I think we need to look into a psychiatrist for you. You've lost your marbles. These are not facts. You are making this stuff up.

I knew I wasn't making things up, but when you're told over and over again that you're making stuff up and you're being gaslit, it really takes a toll on you. She wonders if maybe she is crazy because he always had an answer for everything. It wasn't a good one, but it was enough for me to be like, shit, that could...

that could kind of be real. Jill starts a keynote to organize her thoughts. It's filled with dates and receipts and evidence. She tells herself it's to prove to Jack that she knows he's lying. But looking back, Jill thinks she was trying to prove it to herself.

Two months go by, and Jill gets another kick in the teeth. Jack and Renee are supposed to be working when they... Stop in this shopping center. And I Google to see what's in this shopping center, and it's like a restaurant that wasn't open yet, a sporting goods store, and then a hotel. He was at the hotel. The tracker had stopped moving.

Could Jack really be having sex with Renee in the middle of the workday? I call the hotel and I say that my boss, his phone died and I can't get a hold of him and I just want to know if he checked in for the day. And they confirmed. Jill's heart drops. Her adrenaline is so high it's hard for her to think straight. Does she run to the hotel? Does she call him? What does she do? I decided to play it cool and...

and I texted him throughout the day, just random things, trying to be like, "Everything's cool, not upset, but in reality, I'm going crazy." Jill goes home and cooks dinner. But at 6:30, she gets a text from Jack that says, "Hey, I'm down in Orange County. It's gonna be a late one. Go ahead and eat without me." Jill can feel herself spiraling.

So she calls Kyle, who tells her that Renee is also working late. But when Jill tries to say, My intuition tells me that, like, something's going on between them. Kyle responds with, Ugh, here we go again. Nothing's going on. Like, you need to stop it. He would never have an affair with my wife. That just is not going to happen. Give it a rest.

But it wasn't just Kyle who thought she was crazy. Their whole friend group thought she was nuts. - Agreed? - Agreed. - She wanted to tell them the truth, but she knew that admitting to buying a tracking device would only make her seem crazier, and even worse, that if she said the quiet part out loud, her marriage would really, truly be over. So she sat and she waited and she paced and she waited, and several hours go by before Jill's phone rings.

It's Kyle. He tells her that Renee came home drunk and confessed to consoling Jack. I was like, you know that this is very concerning, right? And he's like, I'm starting to believe you. A few hours later, Jack calls to say he's spending the night at his office. And when Jill asks him why, he tells her, Me and you aren't getting along.

lately and I think I just need my space. But when Jill questions him about this, he says, I think we should just get a divorce. This isn't working. You think that I'm cheating on you and I'm obviously not. And so I think that it's best that me and you just like split up. But Jill refuses. Despite the

fact that Jill had never felt lower in her life, she was still fighting to hold on to her marriage. I wanted him to come clean so we can just like move forward and work on this. I was already early in my 30s. I didn't want to start over and I was, you know, kind of embarrassed. Looking back, she admits that societal pressure, feeling like a failure, and the

fear of starting over held her back for a long time. There's just like some shame around getting married and getting a divorce and then not working out and having someone cheat on you. Like, I just didn't want to be that story, especially when all my friends around me were having kids, living this wonderful life. So I just kind of kept it a secret and I was just going through this alone.

This cycle of deception followed by gaslighting continues for months, and so does Jill's tracking. I wanted closure. Like, I also wanted to know that I wasn't crazy, because he kept making me feel crazy. So I needed to just reassure myself. But when you have somebody gaslighting you, telling you that you are crazy... One day, Kyle gets a knock on his door.

from an employee at Jack's construction company. And he tells him, Hey man, your wife is fucking your best friend. And that was the moment that Kyle realized Jill had been telling the truth. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. She knew it.

Shortly thereafter, Jack and Renee get a lawyer and... They filed papers by the same person at the same time, served us on the same day. I was like, how romantic that you guys are doing this together.

Kyle lets go. He accepts the divorce and Renee gets what she wants. I refused and so I made it a little harder for him. Renee gets an apartment down the street from where Jack and Jill live and the two continue their affair. I was like,

the side chick. He was in a full-on relationship with her and I was just sleeping in the same bed. And yet, Jack and Renee continue to deny their relationship to their friends. He still wanted to keep a secret that he was having an affair with his best friend's wife. That is so wrong, right? Like, he's gonna lose everything once everybody finds out. So, Jack fought like hell to keep his affair in a secret and convinces

the friend group that Kyle and Jill were bitter exes. A few weeks later, Jill has to fly to Nashville for work, and it's there that she realizes it's time to let go. "There was just something about me being alone and away from the environment and me falling in love with the city, like, alone." The distance and the fresh perspective snapped Jill out of her toxic spiral.

I'm going to move here. I'm going to start over. I'm going to leave him. And my life is going to be different. This is what I need. So that's what she did. Jill came home and told Jack she would give him his divorce. Now, the divorce was ugly. You would think somebody who...

Because California is a 50-50 state, Jack left Jill to pay $100,000 IRS debt that he had accrued

crude without telling her. I knew karma had to somehow come into play. Like, there was no way that the universe was going to let me have this kind of ending where I was going to owe all this money to you. But the law is the law. It didn't matter. Jill is forced to pay off Jack's debt. Oh, come on, that sucks!

She moves to Nashville, ready to start over, but with a bitter taste in her mouth. In my mind, at the time, I'm the loser, and he's the winner. That's not how it panned out, but at the time, my tunnel vision, that's what I was seeing. Eventually, Jack and Renee go public, and their friends realize that Jill wasn't crazy after all. They distance themselves from Jack, but by the time she got her

her karma. She didn't care. And now, several years out, Jill has this to offer. I'm a different person now and I lost at that time, but I am so thankful that I went through the shit storm that I went through because I absolutely love my life right now. I thought I was happy, but now I know what happiness is and I love my life.

When asked if she'll ever marry again, Jill isn't sure, but... I will 100% get a prenup. I think everybody absolutely needs a prenup. It's insurance. We have health insurance. We have car insurance. Like, this is marriage insurance. So I wish I had a prenup, and I'm not getting married unless there is a prenup next time. But marriage isn't that important to me. I'm fine with just a life partner. Nothing but sex, sex, sex. And for those of you wondering about Jack and Renee...

So they're living their worst life. And it's funny because like, you know, they both probably wondered if the grass was greener on the other side. And like, it's not greener. They have a dirt lot as their lawn. They're living in shit. And I'm loving my life. Yeah, quite a story. Yeah. I mean, the tracking.

Would you ever do that? So my story is a little different, which I know we'll get into later. But yeah, I found out I missed my calling as a private detective. But the tracking on the car, that's like illegal and like out of a movie. Yeah, totally. But I mean, fucking go, girl. More power to you. It's hard because I want to say there's no world in which I would do it. But having been very extremely gaslit, I think like if you've ever been in a really toxic relationship and you've been gaslit like that. 100%. There's really no...

And to the lengths you'll go. Yeah. And I think when you're stuck in those kinds of relationships, you forget the clarity of like, if I have to do this, maybe there's a fucking problem. Yeah.

Like, if I have to put a tracker on his car, maybe this is not the correct relationship for me to be in. What am I fighting for? Yeah. Like, if you have to question that, there's something wrong. That's a massive red flag. Yeah, I agree. It's like vague is an answer. Yeah. Confusion is an answer. Yeah. Becoming a professional private detective is also an answer. Yes, yes. And I think when someone shows you who they are...

Believe them. So like if there's, why are there champagne bottles in the hotel room? Yeah. Like if all the signs are there and you just can't get them to admit it, like California is a no fault state. I found that out very fucking quickly. For people that don't know, what does that mean? So when you are in a marriage, a union, and you get cheated on, you can file for divorce. It's a no fault state, meaning like you can't be like, he cheated on me. This is the reason for the divorce. Pay me a bunch of money.

Got it. So it doesn't matter if you get cheated on in California. No. So like I had for my divorce, I had all this fucking proof that I, you know, private detected my way around and none of it meant shit. I mean, I had it so that when I wrote the book, I had backup to be like, I'm not lying. Right. Right. But as far as getting a divorce, it didn't mean anything. Did you...

feel any sort of similar feelings where the woman talks about societal pressure and feeling like a failure and having her marriage like part of the reason why she fought so hard was not wanting to start over and not wanting to be like a statistic did that ever cross your mind or a thousand percent so i was 28 when i found out about my husband's affair and honestly if it wasn't for him cheating and doing something so drastic i would have been out of there a lot

unfortunately, than I was. But that's honest. Yeah. I would have stayed a really long time and I would have been saying my mom had just paid for this beautiful wedding for us. We just made these vows to each other like let's go to therapy, let's work on it. And we were in therapy. Like we were already in that cycle. Right. If it wouldn't have been for the cheating, I would have probably been trapped in that relationship for a lot longer and been very unhappy

So I really relate to that. Yeah. And I think that a lot of people do. I do too. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So let's just get into what happened to you. Okay. So I found you because of TikTok. But for people that don't know you. Yeah. You met the, in quotes, love of your life. You're...

married, you're a year and a half in, or maybe we start a little sooner, like were there red flags? Walk us up to leading up to before you find out you're being cheated on. Yeah. So I was married for almost two years and we had a really interesting relationship.

Looking back on it now, I see red flags that I did not see when I was in the relationship, but there were also red flags that I did know about when I was in the relationship. So there was like two categories of red flags flying around. The ones that I did know at the time we were together, I was working as an actress. That was my dream. That was my job. That's how I was making a living. And whenever I would go on set, he would get insanely jealous.

It was like, who are you going out to dinner with? Are there guys there? If I had a kissing scene on set, forget about it. He was consistently making me cry. Like, it was just horrible. And I rationalized it saying, well, we'll go to therapy and we'll work through it. It's not the easiest job as a partner to watch your significant other go off on set and be with other people and have...

have to like act in a kissing scene. Oh it's not the sexiest. Yeah for anyone that's never been on set during like a sex or a kissing scene it's like can you move your ass to the left and like arch your back and like tilt your face this way while you're kissing and pretending to be into it. And don't breathe heavy and

And like the guys also got like garlic breath and it's just fucking it's not sexy. It's the farthest thing. But it was really tough. And it was during the point where I was starting to book some bigger things. So half of me was like, oh, my God, this is the best time of my life. And then I would go back from set and get on the phone with him and end up in this screaming, crying fight. And it was then the worst time of my life. Wow. And it really started to become this toxic podcast.

pattern of he would do something and a big fight would ensue and then he would fix it with well let's go on a trip well let's go shopping let me take you to dinner like what can I do to make it better and it was always financial interesting and obviously is that one of your love languages um yes actually so you acts of service and gifts totally

- Totally. - Right. - And that's also how I love to like give. - Yeah. - So for me, that's so interesting that you bring that up because I've always said like this was such a toxic behavior, how did I allow this? - Because it was one of your love languages. - Yeah. - Yeah. - Oh my God, how interesting. - So you read all of that as like, no, this is this person showing up. - Yeah, and like he must love me so much. Totally, oh my God, what a big, weird revelation you just gave me. - It's a question that I wanted to, because I know that money for you, I'm jumping ahead, but after this moment I know that money becomes

theme yeah some of the things in your relationships moving forward yeah and so to me it's very interesting to understand kind of where that came from yeah absolutely oh my god that's so interesting you think like after all the interviews I've done I would have put all of the pieces together but here we are so yeah after my marriage I was very like I don't want people paying for things let me do everything on my own because that was always how he kind of roped me back in after a fight

So those were the obvious red flags. And we were going to therapy. We were working through all of that. Not the craziest red flags. No. With rose colored glasses on, those are invisible. You can rationalize that shit very easily. Yeah. So the ones that weren't as apparent to me at the time, people will hear these that I'm about to list and be like, how did you not think that was a red flag? Don't judge. Here we are.

There were things that he would do that now looking back on it, I can recognize as a narcissist trying to pull me away from people in my life and the things that I loved. So that looked like if you want to keep acting, you have to pay for half the rent and your portion of the bills. But if you want to stop and be a stay-at-home wife, I'll take care of everything. Wow.

And it was like how is the person that you're in a relationship with that you are married to trying to say like hey give up on your dreams and I'll like give you the best cushy life ever. But if you want to keep working then like you gotta earn your keep. Like so fucked up and warped. He would make comments like one day if I would want to get a boob job. And I was like I am a

proud president of the Itty Bitty Titty Committee. Your boobs are not that small. No, they are. They are. They're not that small. Thank you. But I never wear bras. Absolutely. I feel like I'm familiar with your tits because of TikTok. And I'm just like...

She's got great tits. I love it. I think I have great tits too. Thank you. I would never want bigger boobs. Like even if someone like handed me $10,000 to go get a boob job, I'd be like, no, thank you. I like running on the treadmill. I like how they are. It just makes my skin crawl. And it took me a while to get there because obviously like in high school, you're like, why aren't my boobs bigger? Let me get a push-up bra. And now I'm like fucking all about it. Yeah. So things like that.

And he knew that. Oh, yeah. So he pushed on that point. Yeah. Yeah. And like, you know, you should dye your hair blonder and like very outer appearance things that he would do. Were they little moments? Yeah. Very like in passing. Like now when I'm saying them, they sound so jarring and in your face. That's why I bring it up. I have also experienced this. Yeah. And it's never the outward abuse, disrespect, toleration.

toxic behavior that we're told is bad. Right. Because I'm a smart person. Yeah. If I saw that face to face I'd walk away. Yeah. It's the slow bread crumbing the grooming over time. It's the oh wow you look really good you would look better this way. Yeah. Or like oh my god your boobs look so great because you have that push up bra on. Have you thought about. Yeah like very

Not obvious. Of course. And again, with the you should stop acting thing and I'll take care of everything. That's the beginning of someone trying to take financial control over you so that when you do want to leave, you don't have a way out. And to take you away from the things that you love, the people that are your support system. Totally. It's like that triangulation. Yeah. So those were the red flags that were happening. But again, the second batch of those weren't ones that I was very aware of when I was in the relationship. Of course. Yeah.

So were there any red flags in terms of cheating? Outside of, I mean, my mom taught me if your partner is really worried about you cheating, they're cheating. Yeah. And she taught me that at such a young age. And then weirdly, all of the dudes that cheated on me were never worried about me cheating on them. So...

You know, I got really good advice. It just didn't apply to the dudes that cheated on me. Yeah. I wouldn't say that they're... Look, I used to be the girl who was like, I'm going to go through your phone. I'm going to, you know, you're going to tell me everything. I'm going to have your passwords. We never had that with each other. I never, never questioned him to a fault, obviously. And now...

No one in his family saw it coming. None of his friends saw it coming. Like he was the last person. His dad did. Well, eventually. Yeah. He was. You've done your research. I love it. He was the very last person that anybody would be like he's going to blow up his life in this way. Look, the term narcissist gets thrown around a lot. It's such a word. Yeah. You know, it's it's a hot word right now. Narcissist, gaslighting, breadcrumbing. My ex-husband is a sociopath.

Like, it's a step above the narcissist. And that's not what people will read in the book. I didn't even want to write about the divorce and the cheating. That was such a precursor. It's the first two chapters in the book. It was like, I got divorced, I got cheated on, and then all this shit happened. Yes, yes. But...

But one of my girlfriends, when I came back from my Europe trip, was like, you have to write about that. The way you found out about that was like an episode of CSI. People are going to relate to that. You have to write about it. Please, please tell us. We had been having problems for a while. And this is all in the book, but I'll give like the little highlights of it. He was about to go on a work trip and I was putting laundry away in our house. And I took a thing of socks over to put in his drawer and I opened the drawer and there was his phone was in the drawer.

And I picked his phone up and I was like, why is your phone in the sock drawer? And as I pick it up, a little message pops up from a girl with a heart in the contact name, like we're 12. Are we going to use the name from the book? Yes, Laurel. And I turned it to him and was like, who's Laurel?

What? And he came over, snatched the phone out of my hand, walked into the bathroom, locked the door. 45 seconds later, came out, handed me his phone, which I then found out was his second phone and was like, look, my phone's fucked up. Go ahead. Look through it. Check it. Whatever. And completely trying to gaslight me. Of course. Yeah. And I was standing there going, I know what I just saw. You're not going to tell me that I did not. So you've been in the bathroom for 45 seconds.

five minutes. My guy, what were you doing? Right? Like you just had to take a pee real quick. I mean, come on. And that was kind of the start of me knowing something was obviously wrong. And he left the next morning for his work trip. I kind of was like, I think we should not talk for a little bit. Like I need some space. Yeah. He, after that fight was very like, I love you so much. I can't wait to see you again. Like,

Similar pattern to what you had experienced in different fights. Yeah. Sent me like a hundred dollar gift card to go out to dinner with the girls that night. Textbook. And a few days later I was in our office and his computer was still open. He had his big MacBook and it started to ding, ding, ding.

And I walked over to the computer and there were emails coming in for Uber receipts from where he was supposed to be in Florida to Miami. And I was like, why are you going to Miami? And that was all it took. I like went to the trash email and like literally found it.

Hotel receipts, dinners, replicas of dates that like we had gone on. That's painful. And it was, it was of course it was painful. What was most painful was matching up the dates and being like, oh, this is when I was at home sick. This is when I was winning my award that he said he couldn't come to the ceremony for. This is when I was like at the play with my mom. Like it was really intricate in that sense. So this is where the private detective skills kicked in. I, I,

saw on the receipt the name was Daniel Mader, which is why his name is Daniel in the book because all of his names were booked under Daniel. And I call the Four Seasons, which is a hotel that we had gone to and spent New Year's at that's like a mile from our house. And I call them and I'm like,

hey, we were just there a couple months ago. This is the date. My husband's in the industry, so we book under a fake name. I was wondering, I'm doing my taxes. Could you tell me what those names are? Which, by the way, if there's any Four Seasons people listening, like, that shit makes no sense. No, it doesn't. What? But keep doing it. Keep doing it. Send the folio. And she was like, yeah,

absolutely, hang on. And gave me the names that it was booked under, looked her up on Instagram. She was in Miami and a very naked 19 year old popped up in front of my face. So I know that she knew that this man was married. I believe so. I know that when we followed the trip,

Like she was very careful over the next week to not post his face in anything. Like you could see his watch and his arm at dinner. You could like hear him in the background of the videos on the plane home. They were like holding hands and there was a picture of just their hands. So I

believe that I believe that he probably was like I'm married but we're not sleeping in the same bed anymore and like it's horrible and we're like trying to get a divorce. I'm sure he manipulated and lied to her in a big big way. So my question was going to be do you blame her? Oh not at all. No not at

all. I do, since the book became successful, there's been women that have reached out to me to apologize and I feel very bad that she's trapped in something like that and very thankful that I got out when I did. Wow. But no, I don't blame her at all. Got it. I'm thankful for that because I dodged a fucking bullet. A huge bullet. A huge bullet.

I ask because, so I became best friends with my friend Alana because we were both cheated on by the same guy. Yeah. But look, he had great taste in women. I love that. And then there was a third woman who alerted us and it's a whole thing. Oh my God. But I,

I had complicated feelings. It was not the most evolved reaction. And so I ask that because we're taught to hate the other woman, that women shouldn't fuck other women's men. And it is rarely the guy's fault. And so I was just wondering, was that just your default position? Or do you think that time has helped with that? No, because I really didn't feel even in the moment hate for her.

- It's amazing. - I'm sure she was lied to. I'm sure it was like a weird fucked up situation. It's a hot topic on TikTok right now. If a woman knowingly goes and sleeps with someone's husband, boyfriend, whatever, and like it's prior knowledge and you do that intentionally, you're a shitty person, period.

Be an adult. Can't argue with that. No, it's not your job to keep that relationship protected. But like, that's gross. Does that mean it's her responsibility? No, it ultimately falls on the man because he's in the relationship. It's everybody's fault. Like if you're consenting adults and you know that that person has a relationship, it's why would you want to do that? I don't know. As somebody who's been cheated on a lot, I've never actually cheated on anyone. I know that sounds like a flex. To me, it's not a flex. You're just a good person. Yeah.

You know, I've never done it, and that's part of why I don't assume other people are going to do it. Yeah. I think if I ever cross that line, it would be hard for me to imagine that other people weren't doing it all the time. Right, right. And unfortunately, other people are doing it all the time. But I think that, like, that, too, it's like, once you open that door, how are you going into any relationship not thinking?

thinking yeah that they're cheating on you literally any moment yeah yeah and it's like why can you not just be the bigger person and decide to leave the relationship well there's that okay so you find out that your husband is is cheating on you and did you go pi because you thought okay i need to protect myself in case of this divorce or yeah at the time i was like i need to get proof for everything to take to my attorneys so that like i have anything i might need

Right. Again, didn't know at the time California is a no-fault state. Right. So it didn't matter that like I had all of this stuff. But in the long run for the book, it really – Did matter. Yeah. I saw something where you said that when you were getting the divorce, your ex-husband said, I don't want this to ruin your life. Yeah. Would love to know what was going on in your mind when he said that. The audacity. Yeah.

It's flying off the shelves these days. You know, I was sitting there. And even in that final conversation that we had, I was so careful not to say how much I knew. He showed up. That's a lot of restraint. Yeah. It's, yeah. It was all premeditated, you know. I went in, like, with a plan and stuck to it. He showed up to that conversation in Barry's boot camp shorts, which he was going to where she was training to, like, be with her. Yeah.

And I was like, I literally just saw a Snapchat of you guys together at the workout place in the shorts. And now you're here. So I didn't want him to know how much I knew. I didn't want him to know the plan that I had as far as the divorce and everything. And yeah, he was like, I think we were just too young when we got married. And I don't want this to ruin your life. I was 28. It was wild. It was just it was excuses. And I sat there.

and allowed him to spew the bullshit because I knew it was my get out of jail free card. Sure. Like I knew I was unhappy. I knew very clearly now like who this person was. And I had been unhappy for like six months. We had been in therapy. I couldn't figure out why we were so unhappy. Well, it's because you were sharing your bed. Completely. Completely. And sharing a bed to a point where like he would have sex with her, come home, have sex with me, very unprotected in the

both cases. I've fully been there. Yeah. And it's a wild, it's a wild moment when you realize, when you, when you figure out the timestamps of like, wait, I had sex with him. And then like, you realize that not only were the sheets not cleaned, he's just raw dogging everyone. It's a very violating feeling. It's incredibly violating. Like the disrespect of your body and like the fear of like, I have to go get tested right now. It's

something I don't wish on anybody. I have never felt crazier in my life. Yeah. I really thought I was losing my mind. My friends were like, you were, something is not right with you. And I knew my body wasn't right, but I was so committed to kind of proving people wrong and making it work that I tuned things out. So I don't know. I feel like in a lot of ways, the fact that you had it so black and white is like very lucky. Yeah. And I feel...

Like I was very blessed in the situation because I had been unhappy for so long. I wasn't in love with him. I was hurt and I was betrayed and I was enraged, but I was not heartbroken. That lovely feeling came after. I know. With the next man. So then two weeks later. Yes. You meet a man named Javier. Yes. Yes.

who you had known prior. We had gone on two dates like super casually before I ever met my ex-husband. Can you talk about the love bombing experience? Yeah. And this is really crazy because even when I wrote Eat Pray FML, I did not know what love bombing was. I found out what love bombing was a year ago scrolling on TikTok and was like, holy fucking shit, this is what happened to me. Poof.

Yeah. An explosion. And I will say that now, you know, we talk about love bombing on my podcast all the time and it's a hot topic now. But I will say I believe there are two different kinds of love bombing. There's love bombing from a narcissist where they are intentionally trying to shower you with gifts to get you sucked in so that they can then take you away from everybody else. Pull back and manipulate you.

Yeah. Or there's the love bombing from someone who has a serious void within themself and they meet you and they're like, oh my God, this person's making me feel so much better and that shitty feeling inside me is gone. I want more. I want more. Let's, you know, run away together and like be with me and let's see each other all the time. It's also like,

Oh, you're anxious. I'm an avoidant. This is magic. Until it's like, this is not magic. Until eventually they're going to realize that void isn't staying filled because no one can fucking fill that void unless it's the person themselves. And then they pull back at the height of the honeymoon stage. And that's literally the kind of love bombing that I experienced. And when this person decided to pull back, it was basically two days before you guys were supposed to do a month-long vacation in Italy. Yeah. So Javier and I...

He basically like slid into my DMs and was like, where have you been for six years? I was like, well, funny story. And we ended up like going to the beach to hang out. And I was really banking on this being my casual option. Like when I tell you we had gone on two dates, we danced at a club and made out. And like he's he was my hot Latin guy that I never saw again. I was like, great. This is the one person I've ever in the history of my life been able to be casual with. Awesome. Let's do it. He has a whole book about him. Yeah. Psych. Psych.

And we just fell 0 to 100. And it was really intense. We went out dancing the second night. And he was like, I want you to come to my friend's wedding. I don't want to leave you tonight. Let's go to a hotel. We went and just talked all night, didn't sleep together. And he was like, I don't know what to do. That's how you and I are different. Right.

I've had my shares. People will read in the book. And he was like, I don't know what to do. I have a month-long trip to Europe booked, and I don't know what to do now. I was like, well, I'd never tell you not to go travel. He was like, no, I want you to come with me. And I was like, you're fucking insane. Like, this is night two of us being together, but also, when are you leaving? Yeah. You're like, this is insane. Where do I sign up? And he was like, well, I'm leaving on September 4th, which would have been my two-year wedding anniversary. And that probably seems like a sign. The biggest. The biggest.

And when was he coming home? October 4th, which was my late father's birthday. So by this point, I'm like, universe, I hear you. I'm buying my ticket to Europe. Don't worry about it. We're going. So we were together for a month and a half. Everything was amazing. I met his family. His sister was like calling me sister within a week. His friends were like, we've never seen him like this. His mom was like, I can't wait to have you as a daughter-in-law. It was zero to 100. And

48 hours before we were getting on the plane, he told me he needed to go by himself. And that man broke my heart like my ex-husband never could have done if he tried. I was devastated. Do you feel like that's because there was any transference? Do you think that your husband primed you? Because personally for me, I believe in off seasons. Like I feel like if love is like an NBA game, like you're playing and then you need that off season to recover. I love that. What a good analogy.

And you like need that off season. And the times where I have not done that are the times I've gotten my ass handed to me. I have felt like I have jumped into relationships and fallen really fast because I'm in the groove, right? Like I'm like, great, swoosh, swoosh, swoosh. And then all of a sudden, I don't know, Shaq comes up and is like, no, bitch. Yeah.

Sit down. Sit down. And I'm like, okay, yeah. Do you relate to that at all? I wish. Okay. I've had that experience before. So I do feel like I know. What I'm talking about. Oh, totally. And I also know the difference. I drove away from my house with my ex-husband being like, fuck this. I am going to be single for at least a year. This is me time. I'm fucking done. Yeah. I was like, we're done. Obviously that did not happen. But like I said before, wasn't in love with my ex-husband.

when the divorce happened. Right. And then through helping Javier, who's the man after, work through a lot of his shit, I realized that I never was in love with my husband. I loved him, obviously, and this was all subconscious. I didn't go into my marriage being like, I don't, I'm not really in love with you, but let's do it. But

But I come from a really long history of trauma in my life. I lost my dad when I was six years old, walked in, found him dead on the floor from a heart attack. Lost my high school sweetheart when I was 18 in a car accident. So all the men in my life that I really loved died. And at the center of that is fear of abandonment. When I love someone, they leave. So I loved my dad and he died. I loved my high school sweetheart and he died. So I married my ex-husband who I didn't fully love because that

subconsciously felt safe. Yeah. That is wild. Yeah. I mean, this-- You just broke that down in such a succinct way. And I'm like, yeah, 100%. That makes so much sense. Yeah. But when you're in it-- No. No. You're like-- No world. Yeah, not at all. So the answer to your question of do I think this was like a transference,

I would never have jumped in head fucking first to the relationship with Javier if I felt not okay. People were like, you're weirdly okay for what you've just gone through. Was there still shit I had to work through? Did I still have like stuff come up in therapy about the betrayal of it all? Of course. But as far as like my heart being broken, like I was good. I knew that I was getting a second chance. I knew that I had just dodged a fucking bullet.

And unfortunately or fortunately for me, the person that came after was the one that really like devastated me. Yeah. I mean, your life seems pretty good. I think it worked out. You know, if you look at my life as a blueprint, you're like, of course she had to get married. Of course she had to get cheated. Of course she had to meet the guy after. Like, look what it ended up doing for her. I mean, like it changed my entire fucking career. Totally. And me as a human. Yeah.

and healing myself. Well, that's really what I want to talk to you about because I feel like there's so many people that life happens to them. And you're such an incredible example of someone that has taken things that have come your way, but you're in control. You have turned negatives into positives. And not everybody's going to write bestselling books. Not everybody is going to have millions of followers on TikTok. And that is totally OK. But everyone can take negatives and turn them into positives.

positives. Yeah. And I would just love if you could talk a little bit about like how you recovered from these. Yeah. So it was a process like it didn't happen overnight. I knew. Damn. Yeah I know. It's like everyone's like how do I heal my heart? How do I fix my shit? And like the biggest answer is time and everyone's like well how do I do it without that? Because fuck that. It's the worst. But I knew

right when I found out I was going to be taking this trip alone that I was going to write a book about it. Yeah. I didn't know why. I was not a writer in any means, but I just knew that it was something I was going to do. I bought a journal. I wrote three-fourths of the book by hand on the trip and finished the whole thing in three months, which is, I can say from writing the sequel, wildly fast. Yeah, but there's something really incredible about Ignorance.

Yeah. Like when you don't know how hard something is, you just do it. Yeah. And you do it a lot easier. Yeah. And I think when things are meant for you, it's almost like it's like being channeled. You know what I mean? And the catharsis that I found in writing and physically writing, I was feeling the emotions and it was coming out of my hand onto the paper. Whenever I would finish writing a chapter, it felt like I was completed with something.

I also recommend writing for anybody, even if you don't want to write a book. Also, you have a journal. Yes. Which we will get into all the things. But like for somebody that is going through like a breakup or a turmoil point in their life, you do have a workbook for that. But I do for me personally feel like I always recommend just write it out. Yeah. Because the process of writing out how you're feeling helps you organize thoughts. Absolutely. It does. You have to metabolize the emotion in a way that you don't if you're speaking or if you're bottling it up.

Yeah. And I want to point out something that you said. It's one of the things that I did to heal was start taking accountability. And this is such a tough one for people when they first hear it. So hold on and bear with me. Especially if you've been wronged. Yes, totally. So many of my readers and now listeners will DM me and be like, I just keep dating assholes.

I just keep getting cheated on. If there is a pattern in your life, it does not mean you deserve it, what's happening to you. But if there is a pattern in your life, there is something within you that is attracting that so that you can heal some shit. I will give you an example. Like I said, lost my dad, lost my high school sweetheart. My whole thing in me was fear of abandonment when I love someone, they die, or when I love someone, they leave. So I attracted my ex-husband who abandoned me in like the most heinous way possible. 100%.

And right after that, the universe was like, cool, are we ready to go heal this yet, Gabrielle? And I was like, no, I'm good. I'm actually going to go over here to this hot guy, Attracted Javier, who, I mean, it's ironic. Like, the universe was probably laughing. Quite literally abandoned me 48 hours before the trip we were supposed to go on. And the universe was like, okay, cool, are we ready to go heal this now? And I was like, ugh.

fuck, all right. You're like, I don't have another choice. Yeah, you're like, I mean, I fucking guess so. And until you can point the finger back at yourself and be like, okay, what in me needs to be healed so that I can attract different things in the future? I had to go heal that fear of abandonment so that I could attract a healthy, loving relationship with someone who was never going to abandon me. I know, spoiler, she is engaged. Spoiler, she ends up happy. Yeah.

That's not till book two, but you know. When I am talking to my sister or my friends or giving advice or just chatting with people about dating relationships, I try to focus in on like, what is it that you're seeking out in that other person? You have to give that to yourself. I love that. We often seek out in others that which we wish we could give to ourselves. So, you know, for women who always date successful men, it's like, well, maybe you want to be the successful

man. Right. Or people that you deem as like super hot or whatever. Maybe it's that you want to be the super hot one. I don't know. That's just a number one. But be number two, like for me personally, if I'm feeling, say, anxious about dating someone and they're not giving me the attention I want in between dates or something like that, I have to stop and go like, well, what button is this pushing on? Totally. What trigger is that? Oh, is this actually triggering my feeling of unworthiness? Yeah. I can give myself worthiness like I don't need worthiness.

Brad to give me worthiness. Yeah, fuck Brad. Fuck Brad. But I love that you say that because I think it is so true and it really is hard to, it's a hard pill to swallow. It's a very hard pill to swallow. It's a hard lesson to learn. But whenever there's patterns in your life, it's telling you this is something you need to look at because something in you, and again, this doesn't mean that you're deserving of it, but is attracting it so that you can learn that lesson.

So what was the moment for you where you went, oh, okay, I need to heal the abandonment? I am a big believer in everything happens for a reason, but not in like the toxic, everything happens for a reason, peace and love. Toxic positivity? Yeah, no. But I can literally look at even the deaths in my life and be like, I see why those happened and I see why.

What has changed in my life because of those? So in that kind of everything happens for a reason. So sometimes you can't see that until you have a little bit of perspective. I knew that the second I found out I was taking this trip alone because this was the universe's clear way of making me go face all the abandonment shit head on. By yourself. By my fucking self across the goddamn world. So I knew that whatever I was going to learn on this trip and whatever I was going to heal was going to be massive. I just didn't know what it was going to look like.

Did you have any bitterness? Towards who? Which one? All.

D, all of the above. I ask that because I think that resentment, bitterness, wanting revenge, wanting people to hurt in the same way that you hurt is so common. Yeah. And I don't see that in you. And I feel like that could be one of two reasons. One, you've had enough distance and time away from it. And also you're fucking winning. It's like really hard to be better than winning. Yeah.

So it could be that. But it also could be that you did feel it and you dealt with it. And if you did, I would love to know what your thoughts are on bitterness and working through that. First of all, thank you. That's such a nice compliment to hear. That's also a really good question. I won't say...

that while going through the divorce and the back and forth with the attorneys and the bullshit that my ex-husband pulled, that there weren't moments where I was like, fuck this fool. Because there were, and that's human. However, I don't have any hate towards him, even with the attacks he continues to do in regards to me. Sir, knock it off.

I don't have any hate towards the girl. I don't have any hate towards Javier. I feel bad for all of them in different ways. Why? How so? For my ex-husband, I feel bad for him because his whole identity has become...

revenge and hurting other people. And that's exhausting. And that is actually such an amazing answer to what I just said. You can choose to have your identity be something that is positive and moving forward, or you can choose that identity of I've been wronged and I've been hurt and this is revenge. And why would you choose the identity of revenge and being wronged when you could choose power? Forgiveness isn't for the other person.

They don't need to deserve forgiveness. You forgive people because that shit tanks your energy. If he's walking around hating me, hating that my videos are going viral, hating that I'm successful, I'm fine. I'm over here being successful and being happy and stoked. The only person that is being taken down is him and his energy. You forgive people so that you can create the life you want. That's it.

So even now when things happen with him, I stop when I have those triggers because that's human and that's natural. Of course. I stop. I go to my love place, which is usually like my dogs or my current partner or my mom. And in my mind's eye, I send him love. Wow.

And I let go. It's hard. It's something you have to practice. People are like, what? Fuck that person. I'm not going to. It's not for them. It's for you. It is. And watch how your fucking life can change and the success that you can have when you stop harboring those feelings towards other people. Oh.

No, it's because I've lived that on accident. Nobody taught me how to do that. I fell into that. I know exactly what you're talking about. And I see people in my life that aren't doing that. And I want so badly to just let them know that the things that have happened to them are awful and terrible. But they don't have to define them. And we can spend our whole lives trying to even the scoreboard. But that's not life. No.

Life isn't even or fair or anything. So focus on your line. Yeah. Because if you're so busy worrying about the other person's line and making sure that it's shorter than yours, you're not focusing on extending yours. Yeah. We might get a little off topic here, but I just had this woman on my podcast and she reads soul contracts. And-

it gave me a lot of peace because it's literally like if we're all, you know, you believe in heaven, you believe in the universe, wherever you, wherever, before we're here, wherever you think you are before we're here, everybody's up there kind of being like, okay, this is my big lesson and these are the things that I have to learn in this lifetime. Mm-hmm.

I have to learn this thing of abandonment. Like who wants to be that person for me? And other souls up there are like, I'll take one for the team. I'll do that for you. So everyone you meet in this life, they're teaching you a lesson. Every relationship that you have, they're mirroring something for you to fix and heal within yourself. Every person that crosses your path like is meant to cross your path. And so when I look back at like my marriage, which...

honestly doesn't even feel like it existed when I say both of these men now Javier took a little longer but both of these men now feel like they're characters in my story like it feels like they were from a book that I wrote yeah it really gives you a lot of peace knowing that all of that was just part of your journey yes I

Yes, yes, and yes. Did you always have this self-confidence? Were you always able to put the love that you have for yourself over the way that you feel about others? No. I went on this trip and was like, okay, the biggest thing I need to figure out is how the fuck to love myself.

And how did you do that? Oh my God, girl, the saga. Because everyone's always like, you know, you have to love yourself before you can love anyone else. Well, yes. Most important. You can't really be in a healthy relationship unless you have love for yourself. And I was like, cool, great, got it. Can anyone tell me how the fuck to do that? And nobody had an answer. So I was like, God, I hope you

I do. I was on this like mythical journey of like, how the fuck do I love myself? And so many people think it's like looking in the mirror and being like, I love you, Gabrielle. And to me, every time I did that, I felt like a fucking cuckoo. If you can do that, more power to you. But it always felt weird. And I'm like, this can't there's got to be more. This ain't it. You're like, I just don't want to have to make out with myself. Right. Right. And I was like continuously searching on this this Europe trip that I was on. And I didn't find it until I came home, which is why it's written in the epilogue of the book.

But I call it the self-love cocktail because, you know, wine. And it's really – Right. Sorry. Sorry. You're great. And you sit down and you write out a list of things that you're capable of giving your soul that you love. So for me, my list was meditating, dancing, creating, eating well, going to the gym, writing. And I put that list on my mirror and I was like, okay, I'm going to give myself at least one of these things every single day. And what?

Once I get more comfortable with that, I'm going to give myself two of these things every single day. And then before you know it, a couple weeks or months down the road, you're giving yourself lots of things on that list every day. And you're feeling so much better. And it's because you're loving yourself. And when people realize that loving yourself is as simple as giving your soul the things it loves. And also committing to the promise that you've made to yourself. Yes. Saying, I'm going to do this. Yes. And then doing it and showing up.

for yourself. 100%. Consistently for one day. Yes. 10 days, 100 days. And we always feel when we're in a relationship, any type of relationship, whether it's romantic or mother-daughter or friends, if you want that other person to feel love, you do things that makes them experience love. So when you're talking about self-love, why would we not do that for ourself? Guys, you just heard the answer.

Self-love cocktail, man. It's fucking life-changing, I promise you. Okay, we're going to run into the rapid-fire questions. Oh, here we go. I'm so bad at these. Okay, we'll try. Okay.

What's your favorite killer move? Oh, God. I swear I looked at these before, too. I was like, I'm going to I'm going to prepare answers. I didn't. My go to move is being yourself. I think so many times. Am I not supposed to give explanations? OK, I think so many times people are trying to date being like, well, what would this person like? And maybe I should not text back for an hour and like put it on him. And it's like, no, just fucking be yourself. Say what you want and be yourself. Nobody's got time to waste anymore. No, keep it moving.

We're all going to die anyway, guys. Right, right. Killer date versus date killer. I love when people are present and really engaged in conversation. That's like my winner date. Like I don't care if we're at a picnic. Like as long as we're talking and you're engaged with me and I can tell that you're like listening to what I'm saying and asking interesting questions, that's like a win. Great. Boner killer. Yeah.

There's like a few that are coming up. I'm like going through all the fucking shit dates I had when I was single. Sorry. Like I know a lot of women have problems with the paying thing. I've never had issues with that. But it's the. In that they always pay for you. No, no, no, no. Or you don't care if somebody doesn't pay. In like sometimes I can pay, sometimes you can pay. I think that's fine. But I think the problem is when they like make it a thing.

Like, oh, I forgot. Dangling money as a. Well, yeah, that or like if it's consistently a conversation instead of just like, no, I'll get it this time, you know. Yeah. As opposed to and it's like a problem and a discussion each time. Yeah. That. That's annoying. It's either like tell me you want to split it or just throw your card down or like let me do it. But like let's not like have a fucking 10 minute discussion thing. Yes. Fully. Yeah. Killer advice. What's the best dating advice you've ever been given?

Keep your heart open. I swear to God, you're coming back so we can do another episode on how to keep your heart open. On how the fuck to do that. Because I feel like that I would love to learn from you. Before I let you go, I just want to say, I hope this isn't rude. I've seen photos of you via TikTok from when you were married and now. And on a very objective, superficial way, you look happier and hotter now than you ever did back then. I still love you.

Thank you for that. There's such a difference. But it is really crazy. And I hope people go look at the difference between what she looked like when she was married to now. And the physical difference is crazy to me. Thank you for that. That's really nice to hear from an outside objective perspective. And I will credit that to happiness and really doing the work within myself and finding that healing. Well, the glow up.

is legit thank you okay if people want more of you how do they find you i am on instagram at gabrielle stone and tiktok at gabrielle underscore stone the books are exclusively on amazon eat pray fml and the sequel is the ridiculous misadventures of a single girl you can also find all of them signed by me on the website which is eat pray fml.com thank you so much you're so welcome