S21 E13: (1/4) [Annie + Lauren + Rachael] Deny, Deny, Deny
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something was wrong is intended fermata audiences as a， discusses topics that can be upsetting, such as emotional, physical and sexual violence, rape and murder content warnings for each episode, and confidential resources for survivors can be found in the episode notes. Some survivor names have been changed for anonymity purposes. Sudan's are given to minors in these stories for their privacy and protection. Testimony shared by gas of the show is their own and does not necessarily reflect the views of myself, broken cycle media or wondering the podcast in any linked materials should not be construed as medical advice, nor is the information of substitute for professional medical expertise or treatment. Thank you so much for listening.

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Hi, i'm Rachel. I ve listened to something was wrong since twenty twenty. Never did I think that I would be submitting a story to the podcast until one day everything blew up with one of my friends and josh, we went to the same middle school.

We went to the same high school for just one year. I changed high schools. I knew who he was vegan in middle and high school.

We weren't friends at that point. And then in college, I ended up reconnecting with a number of people from my first high school, which was lancing high school. And that was a group of friends that josh was a large part of two.

So that is how we originally met. I was closer with some of his guy friends, and I took a bit for us, actually become friends. He always poses to himself as the goofy one, the clown always making jokes, a lot of the jokes he would make, very, very self decorating.

He played off as though he didn't have very much confidence in himself most of the time. There was a period in college where I had but his sister a number of times, he seemed really lovely, but I had never met his parents. I know that his guy friends had known them for a long time.

Obviously, when your friends was someone, since you were a small child, you get another parents fairly well. He did talk a lot about his parents he was often bringing up. There was a classic story that he was always talking about, which was that his mom dragged his dad believe the show was vicki Lawrence, a old talk show, and he was crowned as america's biggest couch potato around the time he was considering moving to chicago.

I had been living here for a number of years already, and his mom had a pretty serious health diagnosis all of the sudden, but SHE would talk about all the time. He seemed like he cared so much about her, loved her so much, was very worried about her. He would do so in things like sign up for those races they have for certain diagnosis.

He would be wearing the live, strong bans. But IT was for her diagnosis. IT was a big part of his life.

At some point, he even got attack to for her diagnoses as well. He often love to show that had to, particularly to women and myself. A lot of my friends, when I started spending time with his friends, gotto know him Better.

IT was always very much of friendship, very platoon's. He positioned himself as the one guy who can just be friends with the girls in the group. He often buddied up to them.

He liked to gossip a as well. He came off as my mom did everything for me. I love my sister.

I was definitely, I was raised by strong women. I always have women backs at the end of the day, a few years into college. That's when I spent a lot of time with his close guy friends.

And we got fairly close in the year or two leading up to me moving to chicago. He was often times around, I lived in a color house with a bunch of girls. We were always having parties, and he was always there that when we really became close, he was always very playful, very fun, pretty much up for anything.

He wasn't in college. We all were. He was working as a butcher in the meat department at a grocery store.

He would have a bit of a different schedule, and he would often times party all night hanging out with us and then wake up really early in the morning to go into the meet apart. He will come to my family's tailgates. He love to try and body up to my mom as well.

That was always one of his goals. Now fucking back on and and he would always brag to that. Mum loved him so much.

We definitely maintained a friendship. He would come visit some of his friends that lived here regularly, and I would go back there. Lauren, I went to the same grade goal, but we were in different programs.

I was in the masters of social work program. He was in the clinical mental health counseling program. However, we put up in turning at the same place our second year of grad school became pretty quick. Friends, we were somewhat similar. She's absolutely, as he had ended a relationship a bit before I met her and started dating, getting out there more.

One night in the summer, I had plans to do something with Laura and a few of our other friends from our internship, and some of my guy friends from, including josh, were in town hanging out with some of the same group of guy friends that lived in chicago. Josh called me and he was like, what are you doing? Blood hanging out.

I said, okay, me to at this far, this is where we're going. He showed up maybe fifteen minutes after we got to the bar. IT was great fun.

I mean, I always love mixing groups of friends too. That's always been one of my things learn. And judge seemed to really hit IT off when I was still in college.

He would always talk about how he had these crushes on girls, how he wanted to date them so badly, and how he was in love with them, and nothing ever came to fruition at all. He always said, oh, it's because my guy friends will all make fun of me if I bring a girl back. Whether that's sure not, i'm not sure at this point.

So when he met, learn, and they really hit IT off, I was like, oh my gosh, they should hang out. Judge came back to my place that night after the bar, he was really trying to maintain his image of the nice guy. He was like, my guy friends are going to get a neuber and go home, but i'll walk you home. And I said, it's really not a video. I live half block away from the bar, a very safe.

He insisted.

He ended up spending the night on my couch. But we were talking before I went to bed about Laura and and he was like, i'm in love with her. Give me her number.

So I gave him her number. And then they started tex team, and they literally never stopped after that. They're both so fun and so funny. This would be a great match.

My name is laun. I'm thirty and from chicago. I am in the manohla fields. I work in a non profit mano half agency at chicago. I'm licensed as an L C P C, so a licensed clinical professional counsellor I don't practice.

I'm not actively providing counselling in the therapy out of people, but I currently run an outpatient manual health clinic, so I supervise their a piece. For the first five and a half years of my career, I was specializing in assessing and diagnosis of mental health conditions and substance use disorders. I just think that that is really ironic when you think that you know all that that can happen, you really don't.

Rachel is also in the mental health field. We met doing our internship together at an outpatient mental health clinic. That interview is a rough one.

It's basically a full time unpaid internship. And they just throw you and and you just start doing therapy. It's pretty wild.

There were like ten or twelve in turns, and there were four tasks. The windows were taped together. You just kind of go through the ship together.

And I think that's why Rachel and I, and there were others, two in our cohorts, IT really quickly. Rachel and I were still friends after the end of our internship, which is a year along. One night we were out at a bar in the labor that Rachel lived in.

She's like, hay, a couple of my friends are in town. They're gonna meet us at the bar. And I was like, Rachel's amazing so i'm sure her friends are amazing to they were all of them.

That's how I met john. I started talking and he said something about tailor swift, which is instantly a Green flag for me. So we kind of like bonded over that, I think, and just hit IT off.

I realized though, that he lived several hours away because he was just visiting. And so in my head I was like, well, this won't be anything. He lives four hours from here, but we ended up exchanging numbers and talks constantly.

sense. I was twenty four. He was twenty nine, his year classic charming guy.

You could put him in a room with anyone, and he could talk to them for hours. He is very extroverted. I'm that way as well.

That was really appealing to me, someone who feels confident in themselves, and I don't have to like babies, that if we are a family function. Also, what attracted me to him is that he came from a family that was very similar to mine, very much working class. They had a tiny house.

There were times throughout his childhood where they weren't financially save. And so like things I could relate to, he was a butcher. That was his job.

He told me that he went to college and that college wasn't for him. And he decided that he wanted to go into a trade. And I felt like he was very down to earth at the time.

I don't want to minimize because I definitely had feelings for him that were very real. But also, I was a saud time in my life where I was willing to tolerate settling for someone who would treat me poorly. The bar was real low.

I talk about this with my fair face quite a bit because IT is really upsetting to think about. I genuinely thought no one's going. I want to be with me. That time of my life was really difficult.

I look back at IT now, and I don't recognize any version of myself that I was just they able to pick up on that I was going through a lot at that time like I had just lost my grandma, who was one of my primary caregivers my whole life. I also gained like eighty pounds in grad school myself. Seen was underneath the ground that makes me so sad now, because I didn't think that anyone would ever love me because of what I looked like.

I thought when I met him, this is someone who's like, on my level, we were both equally mediocre r looking people. To this day, I would trust Rachel with my life. He had nothing but great things to say about him.

He was pumped about us talking and hitting IT off. I don't blame her in any way for how things turned out. I think one of the first things I asked her was like a, tell me what's up? Like what's wrong with him? Does he hate puppies or women or something? And he was like, no, like, he an awesome dude. I would be so thrilled for this to work out. And so that enorme ment was really important to me.

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My relationship with josh IT was quick. This is something that is not unusual for me, I guess, because I just don't really have the patients to like fuck around and what those would call a serial data. I used to be ashamed about that.

I think now that i'm older, I don't necessarily think that it's a bad thing. I just have A, A lot of love to give other people. We texted primarily.

There were some face times in calls in there. Head drove up here to chicago for day, which was a prety awesome date on a huge comb fan. So we ended up going to a cubs game that was a great time.

Like no notes, he drove four hours for our first state. And I didn't see anything weird about IT know if I were talking to my Younger self, a friend, and they told me that i'd like we sure that that is a good choice for us to be making. But how I was feeling at the time was we were clicking so well, and none of IT felt weird.

Not at all. IT was pretty early on that we met each other, other's families. My sister is my closest family member, and I very different and very similar.

Arn, a lot of ways SHE really liked him, and I think he knew that her opinion of him was very important, not the most important. So head went above and beyond to impress her and IT works. SHE really had nothing book good things to say about him.

At first I wasn't in a whole lot of contact with my parents at that time. My parents had separated right before I met him. And so things were real hostel up in my family environment.

My mom said, like, he was fine, he thought he was funny and he was always so. But my dad called her. And so they were divorce at this time and said hard, no, on that guy.

That's not the one I found that out for recently after he died. And I was like, okay, thanks for the heads up which someone would have told me that he sucked. IT was just strange to hear that after the fact, and I wouldn't have expected them to tell me because we don't have that type of relationship.

Nothing sticks out to me about meeting his family specifically other than his sister was pretty intimidating, but he was very sweet, like once I got to know her and his mom and dad, they were super lovely. From the very beginning, josh painted this picture of my friends are not just my friends. They're like my family.

I thought IT was great. His friends were nothing but awesome, genuinely good people. Rachel was included in that.

He always just spoke so highly of them. And I was so nervous to meet them because I knew how important they were. I got along with all of them, great.

I was invited to all of their weddings, and I would go to the weddings with him. And I was like, we weren't celebrities because everyone's mom would be like, oh my god, josh found this lovely girl. She's so outgoing and and you gotta hold on the that one. Those are really validating things to hear. Here's Rachel .

IT seemed as though they were pretty serious relatively quickly at that point. Josh had never had a girlfriend, so a lot of us were excited for him. And loans, obviously wonderful.

I still spent a good amount of time with him. At that point. He was coming to chicago a lot.

He would come to landing sometimes, sometimes the three of us would hang out. We would hang out in a larger group. There was maybe one or two tailgates that he brought laun to as well. If I was around, I definitely would spend a decent amount of time with them. Initially they seemed like they were both really into one another and happy.

Here's lawn.

July of twenty seventeen is when we met at the bar. We were dating within a few months. We did long distance for about a year. He moved in with a friend and then we found him an apartment in february of twenty nineteen. So that would have been over a year since we officially started dating, reflecting now our relationship was quite Normal and healthy at first.

But IT was when he got comfortable and when he gained my trust that things went south, when he moved to chicago, the red flags really started popping A I imagine that there were some based flags before then. Two, during that time when we were a long distance, because we would drive, like every weekend or every other weekend, to see each other, I remember thinking, this is kind of ideal because, you know, I get to spend time with him and then I get to go away. We have our own time in the back of my mind.

I knew from very early on that he was not the one for me when he took the leap to move here. I'd had any opportunity to say, don't do IT. But I went with IT because I thought this is my best shot, finding a person who actually would ever want with me.

There was a pit in my stomach that whole time, knowing that the sky is coming here. There is the always this conversation with friends and family. Like, yeah, he's coming here because I live here.

But also, like, he has lots of friends here and he was eventually gona move to chicago anyway, when we were a long distance, I didn't really see who he was as a person because you're only seeing the weekend version of them. He was living in a house with a remain in machin at that time, and I would spend the we can there with them. And I really loved going to see him.

I love michigan is beautiful there. IT was really nice to get out of the city when he moved to chicago. I could see things more clearly. He's very mature and very manipulative, and all those things are coming out.

I think that he kind of waited until he moved here because he knew how guilty I would feel if I broke up with him after he moved all the way here. For me, IT was tumultuous and stressful. I was realizing that we were incompatible in many ways.

We weren't very mashed, but we would fight constantly. I was working a new job. He worked to weird hours. He shift would sometimes started at like four in the morning, so he would need to go to bed at like seven.

Our hours were off, which I think, honestly, is another reason why IT less in as long as I did. Because if we were spending more time together, IT would be a nightmare. He was working a law, and he would use work to get out of things, kind of acted like he was a matter with having to go to work.

Oh god, I got an early shift tomorrow. And it's just like, dude, we all love to go to work. It's lasting to be around. He's an energy vampires. He had a drinking problem when I dated him.

Before we even officially started dating, I was like, listen, i'm a very empathic person and very communicate but there is one thing that I can't handle. I'm not a tolerate and it's drunk fighting like if you get drunk and your an asho forget IT i'm not dealing with IT i've dealt with drunk ashes my whole life. Of course, he was saying how understanding he was about that, but I quickly learned that he was the exact definition of a drunk.

All I to keep giving like ultimate ly because IT so trigger ing and I was just miserable. We're in our twenty years and we're in chicago drinking and going out. That was what our social scene was.

So a lot of our social of involved drinking, and he just manage IT. He would black out. He would actually throw like temper tantrums.

A friend of mine who I had a very small, like a romantic relationship with before I met josh, he just constantly bring him up and be so obligingly drunk that you couldn't reason with him. And there was no logic that could bring him back to reality. That friend who I referred to IT was just easier for me to stop talking to him.

I am ashamed to admit that I had to tell his friend it's easier if we just don't stay in touch, because year of the number one source of my fights with my boyfriend and my friend was very understanding he wasn't trying to make waves. And we have since become friends again in our close again. But it's just so strange to think that I would even stop talking to a friend because of the jealousy of josh IT was my sister's birthday.

IT was actually like ride after he and I met so pretty early to even be breaking him around, but I did and he got so drunk and he started accusing me of looking at other guys, which, to be clear, my sister is marry to a woman. And most of the people at that party were gay and significantly older than me. He started making a scene that night.

He is going to stay with me at my apartment. And he refused to get out of the uber and started walking around my neighborhood. IT wasn't the best area that I was living in at that time either.

And what an answer the phone, I would just be off worried sick online about him. I was just these repeated behaviors of getting drunk, accusing me of cheating on him, accusing me of looking at other guys or not caring about him enough. IT was just a lot of pressure to be with him and just so much work.

This type of thing still bother me. When people get blacked out drunk and behaving away and then they don't remember at the next day, we have to live with the memory of what happened and how you acted, but you just get a pass on because you don't remember IT IT. Is this a way to avoid taking responsibility? And he certainly took advantage of that countless times. He would treat me like should, and then not be able to remember anything that happened. I eventually started documenting our nights out because our fighting would get so bad that I would start taking notes on my phone with time stamps of what he would say and what I would say and what would go on, because I knew that the next day he would claim to not remember, or he would twist IT and make me think that I misremembered .

here's Rachel .

one night learn. And I went out with other friends, somehow learn. And I ended up in an uber together, just the two of us talking.

And he had disclosed to me how he had been acting when he was very drunk, and that he was being really, really mean to her, which was interesting to hear for me, because part of me thought he doesn't act like that IT wasn't that I didn't believe learn. I completely believed her a hundred percent, just I hadn't seen that side of josh. As I started thinking about IT more.

I was thinking, well, yeah, he does get very, very intoxicated times. And I did remember, yeah, there were a few times early on when I first met him that he would say, some mean. Things when he was strong, I must have just completely forgotten this, that he may be cry at a party ones, because he won't stop bugging me about this one topic over and over and again, to the point where I was actually cry.

Looking back on IT now, I believe he was drinking a lot, and more than maybe some of us were where he was lorn was saying that he would not allow him to treat her this way. And I fully supported her in that I thought I was willing, appropriate how he treated her. If he was able to cut back on the drinking and not do this again, everything would be fine. I just kind of followed what SHE saying, that how he .

felt about IT.

He did talk to me about IT a little bit. However, how he was talking about IT was more along the lines of, we were both drunk and we got in an argument. There was no accountants.

There was no acknowledged what soever of the severity of the situation. He also would talk about IT and seem very sad. He had this ability to put up this front where he would seem very sad and very soin.

He would talk about things like this. I saw that is potentially shame. I also wondered if he was just so drunk that he didn't necessarily remember what he had even sadder done.

Was that pretty different than how you Normally saw him?

Yes, then, of how I generally saw him.

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Before they broke up, when he had been living here for a while, he would never want to do anything. I would taxed him and invite him to go do things with me, because lawing would be busy hear something like that, and he would decline. We would often times go to a bar to watch a michigan state basketball game or football game.

And he had turned those invitations down. When I would hang out with him, I would only ever be with lord. And I was still hanging out with Laura without him, but I was never spending time with him because he would decline every invitation.

I thought I was very bizarre. IT didn't seem like him at all. He usually would be up for doing things a majority of the time.

And he also seemed more withdrawn when I would spend time with him. Member, there was one michigan state, best of all, game, I believe we went to a bar to watch him learn. And I, and he seemed very reserved, which was out of character for him.

I personally been a therapy is interpreted IT as maybe he's depressed. He seemed not himself. He's seeing much more withdrawn, quiet, not why to do things.

His mom is pretty sick. He is away from her. He really doesn't have that many friends here. And his relationship with laun at that point, this was when things are starting to get kind of bumpy.

IT was more learn, and I socializing, and I felt as though josh was a bystander a little bit. IT was pretty fine overall. IT was just different.

And he wasn't the person that I had seen him to be in the past. He was always. So here's laun.

Those last six .

to eight months I was with him. The old me was starting to emerge again. I was gaining myself confidence back, and he didn't like that.

I am truly incapable of not calling someone out on their ship. My emotions are out there. I'm not a person who can easily press their feelings. I would just constantly be like the way that you talk to me is fucked up and not okay and you need fucked and do something about IT because i'm not going to sit here listening to talk to me like that.

That's kind of when he would really start to use like manipulation, and would often use having depression as an excuse if I would try to confront him about something that was constantly like, well, you are constantly nagging me. You're trying to make you feel bad. You know, i'm depressed and then I would end up apologizing.

He knew that as a therapies, I am extra aware of those things. And of course, I want to to be a support to him. Maybe he was having depression, but I don't think that that was a good excuse for his behavior.

There was another time we went to dinner, and then we went up with friends and we were walking to the uber. And there is a group of four men who said something to me, but I couldn't make out what they were saying. But I was, like, clear that they said something not great.

Josh turns mean his like, should I fight them? I said, why? What do they say? He says, what? nothing.

It's fine. IT doesn't matter. I said, just telling what they said, no, doesn't matter. Just forget IT. This is me being harrassed by four men and then josh instigates a conversation about IT and then won't tell me what they're saying.

And so I was, like you just said, those guys talk shit and you ask me if you should fight them and he goes, what IT and then he goes, i'm just onna, get in a cab and go home and then he gets in a cab, throws all of the food and bottles of water out of the cave, onto the street. And then he gets out of the caves are screaming at me. And then he goes with, what are we fighting about? It's like he googled how to gas late someone.

He was straight up pretending that he had like amnesia. IT worked so often because he would be like, we, why are you met again? What are we talking about? And i'd be like, do you have a head injury? Like, I don't understand.

He would do IT to confuse me and to throw me off. IT was just constant stuff like that. What really pisses me off even more is there are people with mental illness and horrible life experiences who know how to behave appropriate.

It's just so clear that he does things intentionally IT was just even so apparent to me at that time when I was so Young and not experience with these things, he was trying to isolated me and he was trying to control me. He would get really angry if I didn't tex him where I was or who I was with, if I didn't respond in a timely fashion. And like pig fights about that, we used to go to trivia with some of my friends from work.

Earlier that day, my friend from work invited me and josh to her birthday party, which was, like, in a couple of weeks at the trivia night, he was just trying to be friendly and make conversation. SHE was like, josh to learn, tell you about my birthday, like where you guys going to come. And he got so mad.

IT was instantly so uncomfortable, the tone just shifted. We all felt IT. Suddenly, IT was like, god, let's get to the end of this game so we can all go home. Because I was uncomfortable, and so I was like him.

And what was that about? Is everything okay? Are you good use? Like, no, yeah, it's fine and this is a repeated thing.

He would do be like, i'm fine and i'd be like, okay, but you're clearly not. Your whole body language has changed, like your tones of voices change. You haven't made eye contact with me.

You've been short. You haven't spoken to anyone. You've been on your phone the whole time. Clear things that we all can pick up on the social cues that someone is not having a good time or someone is upset. Hours would go by and he feel like i'm fine.

And then I would start thinking, like, why do I always think that he's map what is wrong with me, thinking that he is constantly upset in my projecting something, the gas lying at work, I would be like, I need to is up or i'm over reacting. And then suddenly, as soon as I would feel like that he unravel and I would just be like resentment coming out and IT would be like, you didn't tell me about this party. You never invite me and never want to include me and things.

And i'm like, what this was me telling you about the party. I found out about the party forty five minutes prior to us meeting at the bar, things like that, which would eventually lead to those feelings of, like walking, eg. shells.

I started to learn what types of things would piss him off. And so I would just avoid those things because I was easier. What was so frustrating as him just being so blatantly upset. And then if you ask why, then it's deny, deny, deny.

And then suddenly it's like everything you've been mad about for the last however many hours as weeks, months come up and there's a no ability to communicate effectively about IT or problems solve, just so fucked up. An ongoing theme of our relationship that I think is relevant and important. Josh had some hydro issues, was very immature.

If you SAT anything like, hey, do you want to clean your sink before I come over? Like, complete lack, you couldn't ever, ever say anything about that. His car specifically was a point of contention for us through our whole relationship, and it's ultimately one of the biggest reasons why we broke up.

So his car was a complete disaster. Food closed, rappers IT was almost like a horse situation. I eventually got frustrated because I would end up driving us everywhere, because the car was such a mass that I literally like couldn't go in IT, because the seats were just piled to the ceiling of shit.

Or he would be too embarrassed me to go in IT and see if that way. Initially I was really empathetic about IT. I kind of attributed to maybe he's depressed writer.

He just moved here at lots of big life changes and stressors. And I know that my hy gene and my life kind of gets out of sorts, staring hard time, so I would offer to help him clean IT out. He would get super defensive and make me feel bad about embarrassing him or shaming him.

And so then I would back off about IT. This would continue for months with no change in with me, just driving us everywhere. Eventually, I staring IT up more and regulatory.

I offered to just clean IT myself as a gift, or to pay to get a detail or something. He would eventually get so mad when I brought IT up that he would be furious, completely shut down, making feel badly about nagging him about IT. And then the same time he would say, OK, i'll clean IT I told I would do.

He never cleaned IT. Spoiler, I always knew about his lying IT was one of those things where I rationalized myself why he was doing, or maybe he wasn't epic of a deal. He would lie constantly about stupid stuff and then about important stuff.

He would lie about everything, not even a good liar. Ultimately, why I broke up with him is because I woke up from like, April to november twenty, twenty. We were on and off, technically broken up, and I was totally responsible for this too.

I would sometimes reached back out to him, or we would consider a movie trying again. And he would beg me to give him opportunities to prove that he was wanting to fix things this period of time. I have a disappointment.

No one loves the dentist, but I, more than the average person, have a really hard time at the dentist, like I require volume. Panic attacks the all. I was getting a procedure done, and I took the day off work.

I was like, a week, day, afternoon. And the procedure I was only done required laughing gas. I never had IT before, and I had an allergic reaction to IT.

And I ended up getting really sick, rolling up everywhere, all over myself, all over the staff, all over the water. IT was so humiliating. IT was so bad.

One of the worst experiences have never had. I'm like, also coming off of the nitrous and also on a shit on a volume. And so the chef, super nicee like, girl, who can you call? Become help you out.

I lived in walking distance, so I walked there. And my plan was because they told me I would be OK to walk home. But I was a no physical shape to come at that point because of the time of week.

My romain was at work like an our way. SHE didn't have a car. My sister was an hour away.

I called josh. He was ten minutes away. I knew his work schedule. He had just got off work, so I call him like him and feeling to help me out. I'm at the Dennis, and I really needed to write home and some clothes.

Can you please do that? And he's like, some sort of war hero comes walking in with these cloth and the staffer like, what a sweet guy and he's loving IT and i'm covered in my own vomit. We leave and i'm like, so relieved to get out of there because I just need to go home.

We go to leave and i'm like our wear as your car. He's like, oh, my cars in the shop. I had a uber here.

I instantly knew he was lying is like that doesn't make sense. How did you get to work? How did you get at home for work to IT? He's like someone is wrong with IT.

He's kind of guiding me to walk down the opposite side of the street that wouldn't make sense for me to go. And I and I see his car down the story. He has a very specific license plate.

He has one of those customized ones. Definitely his car there's no arguing about IT. I like josh, is that your car? And he's like, no, it's not. I'm like, okay, but i'm looking at a right now.

Don't tell me that that's not your car and then went ballistic on me, screaming at me in the end of the street and I was like, is this because you're still and cleaned out your car? It's been like over a year, he is just going batshit crazy, accusing me of nagging him how he didn't have to come and get me how he was doing favor. He's exhausted and then he wouldn't drive me home.

And I was like, are you fucking kidding me? Like, this is exactly why this isn't going to work because, like, I can't rely on you the laughing again, thankfully, wore off pretty shortly after. But I was doctor on volume, and I was in horrible pain.

I was covered in bit and blood and sobbing. Just had one of the worst experiences of my life. And this man wouldn't even drive me four blocks to my apartment.

He did that another time, too. I was in the hospital once, and he told me in my romance that he would drive me home. I specifically told my mom and sister, like they didn't need to come up because josh would come out after work and drive me home.

I wasn't in for anything serious. I just had like a really bad case of the flu and I needed fluids. He did the same thing.

He showed up and we're walking out and he's waving to the staff as if he's just saved my life. And i'm like, where's your car? And he's like, it's not here.

I ub red here. I just blew my mind. If I were him, I would have left work into the hospital, brought him gid taking off work the next day, gotten him up to his apartment.

I had a call in uber for myself, and I almost passed out on the series walking up to my apartment because he refused to do IT. It's so embarrassing for me to even tell that story because I stayed with him. After that, he tried to get me to feel that he was so embarrass.

He had a car that was unusable, like I couldn't get into IT. He didn't want me to say anything about IT because he'd knew that he would have to acknowledge, like, yeah, sudden get IT cleaned. At that point, I had one hundred and three fever.

I was fully on another planet. I would have gotten into any one's car and gone home. I just needed so badly till I get to my bed.

And IT was some sort of like pride thing and feeling inadequate. He didn't like when he wasn't the center of attention. And that was really a problem for him.

He was constantly in these types of moments with the dentist in the hospital. I was like, what I have to work so early? I know you have to work early, but i'm also unwell and need you who is just wild.

Fortunately, I had a lot of other friends and supports to in my life. At that time, I didn't really want to put Rachel in the middle of IT, but there were certainly times where he would start fights in front of other people and say, really sharing weird things in front of other people. And I would find myself reach out like apologizing to Rachel tube, like, it's okay, don't worry.

But we never really got into IT keep roke me honestly. I was so exhausted to fight with him because we would just go in circles and circles. I got to the point where I was just like, well, I don't have the energy to defend myself or like, fight with you anymore.

And so I just kind of stop caring as we were dating for longer and longer. And people would ask, like all you guys going to move in together and he would bring up marriage. The thought of those things made me want to die inside.

I had a little bit of a reality check, as when I get to a point where I was actually envisioning a future with him, because he was older than me and he was feeling a lot of pressure to get married, he was the only one out of his friends who hadn't been married. So he was kind of placing that pressure on me to the thought of living with this man or spending one more moment with him was too much IT was way too much. And so eventually I had to cut IT off.

November of twenty nineteen is when I officially cut IT off. When we broke up, I taxi, Rachel, that we broke up and that I didn't want her to feel like he was in a world position that I told and her said that he would continue to hang out with, just like via support to him. And I wanted her to, because I was very, very worried about his well being when we broke up.

I don't think he ever explicit told me that he was thinking about suicide or that he was unwell or not be able to take care of himself, but I had that feeling very strongly, like I was very concerned also because he doesn't have a lot of supports here. So he was one of his only friends that he had here in the moment. I probably thought that I was a genuine threat. Now looking back, it's so clear to me now that that was a manipulation tactic.

Here's Rachel .

IT was in that time where I was really trying to still be a friend to both of them and not take a however, I think that when I started to wonder what's going on here exactly, and I guess I started to think, wow, he really thought this one up. Why get your act together? IT was a tough spot to be in during that period in which lorn and josh were very on and off.

Josh was also actively on the dating apps and going on dates with other women, which read me incredibly uncomfortable. He was maybe going on a day once every few weeks, once every week. He would tell me about the woman he was going on dates with because I would ask, because i'm interested.

And he felt like he could talk about these things with me again. It's that budding up to women think he, if I talk about my dates and everything, I can kind of be like one of the girls. So we do often times to have conversations about the dates he was going on.

And there were a few brief stance with, I think, two women, or he went on maybe a handful of dates with each of them. I have tried to find these women, and I have not been successful. I'm so curious what their perspective was and all of this, but learn was very respectful.

SHE has other runs in chicago. In all honesty, at that point, I was really one of his two friends he had in the city, so I think he wanted to have him spend time with me because he didn't really have anybody else. I had gotten learns perspective on IT, and I fully supported her.

Seemed like I was the best decision for her I could tell. He still cared about him. He, on the other hand, seem very sad and very depressed.

And so I did try reach out more, kind of nudge humor, push him into doing more social things. I did get to see him a little bit more at that point, because at this time I was really the only person he had in chicago. So if he wanted to be social, he kind of had to hang out with me.

I was always very much a friend vibe between us. That's all IT ever was. I just felt very, almost responsible for him.

Am a caring, an empathic person. And I saw him going through what appear to be a really rough break up for him. And he started going to therapy.

And he said he was starting to do things like exercise, trying to do a bunch of things to Better himself, essentially, honestly, activity. Don't even know if he actually went to therapy. Y, i'm somewhat suspicious of that.

He was dating a mental health professional, and his only friend in chicago is a mental health professional. So what can he do to present himself in a Better like to them? Go to therapy.

Here's laun. I don't know if .

I would do anything differently looking back, but he was always pretty clear like that he was more serious about our relationship than I was. Objectively, we weren't that far part in age, but that developed mental. I think where we were like twenty four versus thirty was a really big difference.

I'm thirty now, and who I was and I was twenty four, is totally different. I met my current Fiona pretty. Shortly after chat, I broke up really enough.

He was in a relationship to that had ended, like around the time that mining josh's relationship ended. And so when we met each other, we were fully in denial, like doing everything in our power, not make our relationship serious. We didn't actually get together until march of the following year.

Have a friend specifically who I met right after I met josh. After he and I broke up. He said this years later that I was like, he didn't actually know me until john.

I broke up. I was a totally different person that was super validating because I felt like he was basically saying that I was a very weird version of me when I was with him. And that's exactly how I felt.

I really am almost like associated from IT because I like, can't even recognize who I was at that time. I think, john, other predators out there, they can smell that shit from a my way. My life got instantly so much Better when josh was out of, I got my sense of self back.

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