S20 E5: Evil to Her Core
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Something Was Wrong is intended for mature audiences and may be distressing for some listeners. For a full trigger warning for each episode and for a list of resources for survivors and their loved ones, please see the episode notes. Pseudonyms are given to all minors and some survivors in these stories for their privacy and protection. Testimony shared by guests of the show is their own and does not necessarily reflect the views of myself, Broken Cycle Media, or

or Wondery. This podcast and any linked materials should not be construed as medical advice, nor is the information a substitute for professional medical expertise or treatment. In response to the allegations against Jessica Pauly, she responded with no comment. Thank you so much for listening. You think you know me, you don't. Oh, you think you know me.

You don't know me well at all You're not in here, you don't need to be taught to some

I'm Megan. I'm Lauren's friend and current roommate. I met Lauren via Bumble BFF. I remember being super excited after seeing her profile that Lauren was in my area since it was sort of a small area with mostly men. We had a brief conversation and then I believe some time passed and

And we were both walking in the parking lot of our apartment complex, recognized each other, stared each other down, weren't sure totally if it was our match. And then messaged each other, laughed about it, just figured out we lived in the same apartment complex. And then talked about meeting up. It didn't happen. A few weeks passed and we were both out on the town. And I walked into a bar and Lauren recognized me. And we ended up spending that night together.

For me, I'd relocated. I'm originally from New Hampshire. I was in the Surf City area, which is where Lauren and I met, and didn't know many people besides my boyfriend at the time. And I was looking for more girlfriends. Lauren was also fairly new to the area and living with Jess, who kept her very isolated in Jess's little world and bubble. So I think Lauren also had the desire to branch out and meet people just for a different reason.

I would say Lauren is level-headed. She is a little bit quirky, has like a twinkle in her eye a little bit with the sense of humor. She's quick to laugh. And I think that's one of the reasons that we have a fun relationship is because we bounce off each other really well and she's giggly and funny. She's caring. I think she tries her best and it also comes natural to her to be sympathetic or understanding for all different types of people.

I would say she's independent, a mix of extroverted and introverted. I think maybe naturally a little more introverted, but she in a certain in the right social environment, she really can come out of her shell and be very social. She's also happy to kind of hang back and decompress and chill with her dog or watching a show or reading a book.

I'd say she's also very creative, obviously, with what she does for work, but then also just in some hobbies and the way she thinks.

Pretty early on to Lauren and I spending time together, Jess was introduced to me as Lauren's roommate. And the first few times I hung out with Lauren, Lauren opened up and really vented about not only Brody, but some struggles that she was having with her roommate as well. So I was introduced to her via conversation with Lauren before I met her physically in person. So when I met her, I...

had a warped perspective. It's not like I was going into that meeting with a blank slate. I already had opinions about her from what Lauren had shared with me. Lauren honestly wasn't even necessarily bad-mouthing Jess. It was more so, what do you think? This is something I'm dealing with. And I made my own opinions based off of what she shared with me. And none of them were nice.

I thought from very early on, from just one example Lauren shared with me, it was evident that this was not a normal roommate dynamic. It was not a normal friendship dynamic, that something was wrong. And that Jess was extremely controlling over Lauren, seemed to not be able to remain calm when there was any sort of roommate little dispute. And small things snowballed.

with her all the time. When I met her in person for the first time,

I had my guard up immediately with her. I was nervous around her, honestly, because I felt that she was unstable from the even minimal things I had heard from Lauren. And she does give off a creepy vibe. Honestly, she does. I know it's funny to say, but there is something eerie about her. I don't know if it's the way she carries herself or the way she looks at people, but there's something up.

It didn't help that she had cameras all over their apartment, which I thought was extremely odd because we lived at the time in a very safe place. And not only did she have cameras outside of their actual unit, but she had cameras inside. So I just immediately felt very unsettled in her presence.

What I can tell you about her energy is she does come across as someone who's compensating for something and is deeply insecure. She puts on a front that is, "I'm kind of ballsy and look at me, but you can see right through it." Especially with the context and the background information that I had. She had this weird little sensation about her almost.

In the moment, I wasn't really sure, but she's mischievous. Like, she's up to no good. She has an air about her. Like, I don't give a shit attitude. But at the same time, you can tell that she is insecure. A word that I would use to describe that attitude that I was trying to allude to is smug. She was smug or full of herself. And it wasn't evident to me as to why she would be, which is really fucking harsh, but it's true.

Before I had spent time with Jess, or at least much time, I remember asking Lauren questions, trying to get at understanding why Lauren was still involved in any way with Jess.

So I would ask Lauren questions like, what are Jess's redeeming qualities? Or does Jess ever act normal? Or basically trying to figure out why their relationship has remained despite all of the craziness that Jess has put Lauren through just as a roommate and a friend. And Lauren would tell me that, yeah, actually, I can have fun with Jess and Jess can be nice. Often it was we had this explosive fight or Jess says something crazy. But then later in the day or a few days later, she comes crawling back.

And says she's so sorry and that she just has a lot going on. Or comes back with all these excuses and an apology and tells Lauren that this is normal. This is what happens when you're really close to someone. This is what goes down. You fight and then you get over it.

Lauren had expressed that Jess had some, at face value at least, redeemable qualities. And then there was a period of time where I was seeing Jess more and Lauren, for a short period of time, wasn't experiencing the drama with Jess as a friend and a roommate. So during that time when Lauren wasn't venting about Jess and I was seeing Jess more,

I was living in the moment and had some of the negatives in the back of my head. And I did see, I guess you could say, some of the positives of her personality, which I now believe is all for show and not genuine. But at the time, I wasn't aware of that. So there were moments where Jess would be around and she would crack a joke or be laughing. Kind of doesn't go beyond that when I actually think about it.

I'm trying to ask myself what was enjoyable or likeable about her. And I have nothing to say other than she wasn't a total drag to be around because she would engage in conversation and smile and laugh. But that was very short-lived because then something crazy would happen. And I would remember the kind of person that she actually is. Here's Lauren.

Brody was the one that really hated Megan because he claimed that like he knew things about her. He'd heard about her. She was well known in the area and played it that way. He'd be like, I know about her. You don't know her. It's just a temporary friendship. She'll be gone soon. I kind of kept Megan and Jess apart a little bit, not on purpose, but I think I could sense that Jess didn't like Megan.

I would go out with Megan and go out with her friends. And then I did invite Jess a few times to places with Megan, but she would always say no. I think I just got the vibe because of how she has treated my other friends in the past. Megan is successful. She has a career. She has her life in check. But she just always would make her out to be like this awful person because she would party and she would drink and go out and normal things that girls do. Here's Lauren's friend, Megan.

fairly early on. I noticed that the way Jess would text and treat Lauren as a friend and a roommate was really similar to the way that Brody would text and treat Lauren. And the things that would set Brody off were also the same actions and behaviors that would set Jess off. I also had a really strange feeling because

of the way that Jess seemed to be so emotionally invested in Lauren. It was very obvious from reading their messages and from the examples that Lauren would share with me or Lauren telling me in the moment about a dispute her and Jess were having that it was not a normal friendship. It was pretty clear that Jess had some sort of

obsessive desire to have complete control over Lauren or Lauren totally to herself. It's hard to put to words, but just the manner in which Jess would communicate with Lauren was not normal in my experience for how you communicate with your girlfriends. Sending

paragraphs upon paragraphs. Jess would get mad at Lauren for speaking to guys or leaving her apartment to go meet me at a brewery. Jess was constantly mad at Lauren for literally just leaving her apartment and existing in the world. And to me, that's

That was so not normal for a friend to feel that way over another friend and to have that desire to control and be territorial almost. So that did send up red flags as to what's going on here. Why is she interacting with Lauren in this manner?

Jess would emotionally abuse Lauren or just go on a rampage and make Lauren feel so bad for whatever was going on that Lauren would then want to just sit in her room and would cancel plans, which is exactly what Jess wanted.

I remember Lauren showing me her phone at times, whether it was Brody or Jess, and it would just be this massive long message that I could scroll and it would not end. I don't communicate like that with my friends and my girlfriends don't communicate that way with their girlfriends. It was very strange level of effort.

I had a top priority of, "I want to have fun. I want to meet people. I want to make this area my home." So my goal in that period of time was, "Let me take Lauren, my buddy, and let's go out into the world and be social and meet people and expand." And I was sort of pulling Lauren along because I loved her and I saw all this potential in her if she could just get out of Jess's grip. And that caused Jess to hate me. Here's Lauren.

We were at some festival. Brody was already sending me text messages, threats the whole night because I was at this festival and he didn't want me being out and he hated that I went out. Mind you, I think I'm 24, 25 at this point. I went to this festival and I had this guy come back with me and three of my friends.

I tell him to come over to my place because I knew Jess was working and her son would be asleep. He comes over pretty shortly after. I get a text saying that Brody, he knew that I brought a guy home and he took something again and he doesn't want to wake up. Like all these threats.

Meanwhile, it was just that saw that a guy came back because I had cameras on the front door. And as soon as I started getting these texts that he had done something, I go in the living room and I'm calling all my friends. It's probably four in the morning and I'm crying, but I'm also drunk and I'm really confused about what's going on. The brother tells me that it's too late, that I should have been more focused on him and I

I shouldn't have been out with other guys. I should have known right then that someone doesn't say that when their brother's dying.

And then he'd be like, it's too late. He's gone over and over and over again. And I'm just drunkenly being like, what do you mean he's gone? What do you mean he's gone? I just remember sitting on the living room floor and crying. I have another guy that's sleeping in my bed at this point. And I call Jess. She's at work. I knew that she would be awake. And she's like, he's probably fine. Just don't worry about it. And this wasn't the first time that he had threatened to do this. So she would say that and that he would be fine.

There were so many times where I would have to wake her up because I thought something bad was going to happen to him and she would ignore it.

after all these suicide threats, he would go missing for 10 plus days and scare the shit out of us. It would make it so much more emotional. And I'm so much more emotionally driven when he did come back that I wasn't thinking clearly or logically and wasn't thinking about the hurt that he caused. I was thinking about how happy I was that he's back and that he's okay.

I don't know exactly if it was 10 days each time. I mean, there would be times where it was like two weeks, long periods of time where I wouldn't eat, where I wouldn't sleep. And I'm getting texts from Brad about updates and him being a SWAT officer and getting his police friends to get involved and look around for him. And it was a tactic throughout, but he especially did it in North Carolina. Here's Megan.

The first night that I met Lauren, I said that I was walking into a bar and Lauren was in the bar and Lauren called out my name and we laughed and said, oh my gosh, it's my Bumble BFF match, yada, yada. And we ended up hanging out the whole night. Long story short, we hung out. We had a great night. Lauren and I hit it off. I was super excited to have met her, have

have so much fun together. And then one or separate ways. And then I woke up around 6 a.m. and I saw that I had a couple missed calls from Lauren. Obviously, that was a little bit worrisome for me because I knew that there was a guy with her and it was the middle of the night. Figured something was going on that wasn't good because why else would she be reaching out to me? Then I woke up. My boyfriend called her back a couple times. She didn't answer. My boyfriend and I, we were like,

what do we do here? Do we go try to figure out what unit she lives in? Do we assume everything's okay? Ultimately, I think we went back to sleep and then a couple hours rolled by and I tried to call her again. I hadn't heard from her. I sent her a couple texts and I believe later in the day, she either called or texted me and she told me that

She had called me in the middle of the night because a guy that she had been talking to had killed himself and she didn't know what to do. And she was basically in distress and she knew that we were close by and we had just been together. She needed some support or someone to talk to that could be there for her. My boyfriend knew what was going on, heard that this person had killed himself, that Lauren had been talking to, and he...

And he said to me in a very serious voice that I need to be really careful because everything that Lauren had just laid out about the situation that she was in is extremely alarming and unsettling.

And in his words, he said something along the lines of, this sounds like a true crime documentary waiting to happen where there is someone obsessed with another person and they ultimately end up dead. So that was his perspective on it extremely early on.

I think she's actually evil to her core, but the craziness that I am talking about specifically in this period of time would be anything from smirking

small roommate inconveniences that she would lose her mind over and use as a tool to manipulate Lauren and keep Lauren in the house through belittling and blowing a small thing up so much that Lauren was upset about it and then wouldn't want to go and do something fun or social. Jess would get mad at Lauren for something that, in my opinion, every single time would be absolutely ridiculous.

and then would throw a fit, make Lauren feel really bad about it, or Lauren would feel anxious and stressed. And then as a result of that, Lauren would stay in the house or go and do things with Jess to alleviate whatever issue Jess came up with. And therefore, Lauren was missing out on other friendships and social events and normal people in her life because Jess was manipulating her, causing problems all the time, and getting what she wanted from those problems.

Here's Lauren's mom. Oh my gosh. Yeah, I'll never forget it. So she called me that one day and she wanted me to come to Hampstead and she said she needed to talk to me about something. And I was concerned because I could tell she was upset. So I went there and she wasn't saying anything about what she wanted to talk about. So I just let it go and we went out to eat and talked and came back. We were watching TV and she got real quiet. She was working on her computer and it was getting late. And I was like, well, Lauren, are you going to talk to me?

You could tell she was dreading talking to me. You could tell she was really upset. But I was like, are you okay? And she said, I've got something to tell you. I've been talking to this guy for two years. And I'm like, whoa. You know, that shocked me because, I mean, she doesn't tell me everything, but that kind of shocked me. And she started telling me how he was jealous and didn't like her going out with friends. He just didn't like that. And he would get very upset. And so the night before, he told her,

I don't know exactly how he worded it, but he was going to kill himself. He said he overdosed.

My head is spinning and I was like, who is this guy? And she told me how she met him. She met him on some dating app when she lived in Nashville. She's been talking to him ever since. She said she had not met him. And I said, have you ever talked to him? She goes, yeah, we messaged. And I said, have you ever talked to him, like heard his voice? She goes, no. And I said, Lauren, so you've never FaceTimed or talked at all? And she said, no. And I said, Lauren, those are huge red flags. You've been talking to this guy for two years and he won't talk to you on the phone?

Well, he just doesn't feel comfortable doing that. And I was like, that's huge red flag. When I'm so concerned, I was so concerned. And I was trying to be real calm because I could tell she was very upset, worrying if he was going to live or die. Her heartstrings, she really cared a lot about him. I asked her about that. She said she really had strong feelings for him. And I was like, oh, my gosh, I don't know what to do.

When she was talking about him being so jealous and not wanting her to go out with friends, all of a sudden I thought of Jess. And I said, Lauren, that sounds very much like how Jess acts. And she said, I know. And I said, do you think that's a coincidence? And she said, well, her cousin Julie thinks that it is Jess, that Brody is Jess. And I said, I do too. And I had just found all this out, but I felt like that it was Jess.

Because it just didn't make sense. Why would he not talk to her on the phone? Why would he not FaceTime with her? You know, I understand they haven't got to meet in person yet, but you can still, two years? I don't know. That was my first night of finding out. I was worried sick. I go home and I'm trying my best to investigate this guy. I can't find anything about this guy. I had asked for his last name and I'm looking and I'm researching. I'm pretty good about investigating.

I couldn't find anything about him. And I thought something is not right.

I felt like it was Jess. I really felt like it was Jess. And Lauren kept saying, Mom, it can't be Jess. There's no way it could be Jess. Because she said, Brody will be texting me and Jess is sitting right beside of me on the couch. There's no way. And how could she beat all these people at one time? How could she even keep her story straight? There's no way. She's not smart enough. And I was like, Lauren, it's got to be Jess. One night when I was there for The Bachelor, we're sitting on the couch and I turned around to Jess and I said, so Jess, what is the deal with this Brody guy? And

And she just giggled and she said, "I don't know." And I said, "Well, why will he not talk to Lauren? Why won't he speak to her on the phone or FaceTime her, let him see her?" She goes, "I don't know. He's just been through so much and he's afraid of getting hurt again." He was with this one girl that did him really wrong. He's afraid of getting hurt again and has been through a lot of trauma in his life. All of a sudden, she pulls out her phone and she starts showing me pictures of her old boyfriend, which was supposedly Brody's cousin.

So she shows me a picture of the two of the guys. I think I totally caught her off guard just for a second. And then she went into her mode. She definitely has so much experience with this and she knows her game. She knows what she's doing. She is really good at it. She's very convincing, but I still, I felt she was roadie.

I tried so many times to talk to her about it and to tell her she needed to get out of that situation, get away from that. But you know, you can tell as a mom when you need to back off. I mean, you need to say your piece, but you need to back off too and let them make their own decisions. And sometimes that's very hard when they're older because they're going to make bad choices sometimes, but you can't control their lives. But she knew that I felt

felt like it was a very unsafe environment and very unhealthy for her. Like I said, she didn't have that sparkle in her eyes anymore. She didn't have that happiness. She was not herself.

She had been beaten down so much with all this. It had really hurt her self-esteem. And she was doubting herself and doubting what she should do, what she shouldn't do, whether she should move out, what's going to happen to the son. It was so hard for her. I always tell my kids, I don't care. There's nothing you could ever do that would make me stop loving you. I don't care what you ever do in life. You're going to make mistakes. Here's Lauren.

I ended up ghosting Megan pretty much after that night because I was just trying to keep the peace with everybody. And Brody told me that I couldn't be friends with her if I wanted a future with him. And at that time, I'd only hung out with her one time. Yes, I had a great time with her, but I was also so scared of what would happen if I were to keep talking to her. And what was the reason Brody gave? She enabled me to have a guy come over to my house.

Then like two months, I think, pass and I didn't hear anything from Lauren. I had reached out to her multiple times being like, hey, you okay? Do you want to get coffee? Do you want to go for a walk on the beach? Do you want to get dinner? And then eventually I just left it alone and time passed. Lauren reached back out to me, sent me a long message basically saying, I'm so sorry that I left you hanging. Thanks for trying to support me.

I was in a really bad situation and the person I was in this terrible situation with told me that I couldn't be friends with you and I just was under a lot of pressure, didn't know what to do. So it was the easiest to basically just separate. We reconnected and hung out a few times. We started talking about that night, which led us to talking about Brody and led us to talking about what was happening in the present. And I realized that he was still in the picture.

I learned way more about the details around the situation, like how they met, the fact that they haven't actually met in person, how they would communicate, the type of relationship they had, things like that. She was very open and honest about that and shared a lot with me very early on.

Every time, basically, that Lauren and I would go out, there would be Brody and Jess shaming Lauren for doing anything. It is just disturbing to think about the camera aspect of it now. But any time Jess would know that Lauren wasn't home, and it was nighttime specifically, Brody would start incessantly blowing up her phone, guilting her, shaming her, calling her a whore, calling her a slut, saying the same thing about me, and calling her thirsty, and

and desperate, jumping to all these conclusions in order to make her feel terrible for doing something out of the house. The most disturbing part to me was the cameras in the house. It was like an entire spy operation.

One day, Lauren and I had gone to the pool, and then we decided that we were going to go hang out at Lauren's unit in the afternoon and just watch a movie or something. That was going to be the first time that I had really hung out during the day inside. We got comfortable on the couch, and we were having a good time, and I remember looking up,

and noticing that there is a camera oriented so that it could completely watch the couch. So the camera was just looking me dead in the eyes inside the house as I'm trying to get comfortable on their couch.

I asked Lauren about it and she told me that Jess set it up. And in my head in that moment, obviously all of my concerns and worries about Jess came front of mind. And I was just thinking, is Jess at work right now, zooming in on the couch and just watching my every move? After that time, I never hung out at Lauren's again because I felt so creeped out and kind of disturbed by the spy operation with cameras going on.

Obviously, that was heightened because I knew how bad of a person Jess was and the abuse that was going on. So I just did not want to be a part of that. And I didn't want her watching me, which I knew was happening. Absolutely. She was 100% watching all of us.

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Hi, I'm Dani. I moved here from Denver. I'm in Wilmington, North Carolina, and I am originally from Buffalo, New York. I have a boyfriend named Caden, who I love very much, and we have a doggie together, Bailey, who we also love very much. She turns 11 this year.

When I was moving from Denver to Wilmington, North Carolina, I was making TikToks. I'm on TikTok a little bit, nothing serious, but I was just making moving videos that, hey, I'm moving out to North Carolina. If anyone has any recommendations out there and just...

She commented on one of my videos and said, "Oh my God, girl, I'm also a respiratory therapist out here in Wilmington. We should get together." So that's kind of where it all started. Shortly after I moved here, we had a little pull day. Going there, I was super nervous, which is understandable. Like you're going to meet somebody you literally don't know. And I had no friends out here, so I really wanted to be friends with somebody.

When we first met up, she was a little shy. She had a roommate who was very closed off. I think she came out for maybe like a minute and hurried back in her room. I don't think she even said anything to me. We went out to the pool and a lot of what she talked about was how much her and her roommate weren't getting along. They were close friends and there's just so many rifts between them now. So she just wants new friends.

It seemed like normal roommate riffs, how they're just getting sick of each other. So I wasn't judging her too hard on it, but she was talking a lot about it. We talked a lot about our jobs because we both work in the same career field. She vented to me a lot about her family and troubles there. It just seemed like she came from a lot of background of abuse. At least that's what she told me. It's really hard to know what to believe.

It's hard being in that situation when you're looking back on everything someone said because deception is so scary.

She was working at another hospital and I was working at the main hospital here in Wilmington. And she wanted to work at the hospital I worked at. When I met her, she was like, oh my God, I've been wanting to work there, but they haven't called me back. So I reached out to my boss and he called her right away and he got her a job where I worked and regretfully so.

We started making friends where I worked and had a little friend group going, which it was nice. Over the course of us being friends, me and Jess, I slowly met Lauren. She would come out with us here and there.

But Jess was very much a person that didn't want her friends to intertwine. She wouldn't want me going to hang out with Lauren by myself. She made that very clear. She also had this very weird hatred for her. She was always talking about her negatively. Lauren always had friends and every single friend that Lauren had or would bring over, Jess would talk about negatively. It was just a very odd situation.

I did become closer with Lauren. Like we added each other on social media and we would reply to each other's stories and she would come out with us sometimes. But anytime she did, Jess would have something to say normally. But it was pretty typical of her to have something to say about everybody.

She also kind of made it sound like she wanted her own friends so she could take a break from Lauren. I didn't want to like overstep because if your friend has problems with somebody, you don't want to go and be that girl's friend, right? So I didn't want to reach out and be super close to her. But there was also points in time where Jess and Lauren were fine. So of course, when I was around, we would be fine. We would go get ice cream or we would go to the beach and watch the sunset.

So I couldn't be too close to Lauren, but good enough where we were fine and cordial in person.

Lauren had her own friends, and they would come around sometimes, but Jess would always have a problem with any friend that Lauren had. Jess is also a photographer, so she would make friends with the people she would take pictures of. And there was a couple of girls that would come around here and there, some of our co-workers. And then Jess's other best friend, Bree, she lived in

Charlotte at the time, she was a travel nurse. She would come down to Wilmington probably once every other month to come hang out with us. For Jess's birthday almost a year ago, her best friend Bree was supposed to come down from Charlotte. It's about three, three and a half hours away from here in Wilmington.

She was supposed to drive down here for Jess's birthday, and we were just like out paddleboarding, I think around noon, 1 p.m. But Brie had worked the night shift prior, so she obviously had to sleep. You get out of work at 7 a.m., you have to sleep. When we were paddleboarding, Jess was like, oh my God, she's late. She isn't even awake yet. Talking all this shit about her.

And I'm like, Jess, dinner's not till 6 o'clock or 7 o'clock. Calm down. She's tired. Leave her alone. She definitely had this huge sense of control. Here's Brie.

I had already came to Wilmington twice, and then I was supposed to come back three weeks later for the concert for Brody's birthday. So the plan was Jess was going to go paddleboarding. Her mom was here. Her brother and his fiance were here staying with them. They were at the dinner. And then Lauren came with, and she was at the dinner. We were at this rooftop. It was super cute. This is the first time I met Megan.

And then a group of Jess's coworkers came and this is the first time I met Dani and Kaden also. A lot of us were just meeting for the first time. So we're all at the dinner. The issue was I had worked overnight, then had to sleep, had to wake up, get ready, pack, and then drive three and a half hours to be to dinner. Jess wanted me to be there earlier in the day so I could paddleboard with everybody. Dani, Kaden, Lauren, and her family. But...

I was terrible for not being able to pull an all-nighter, drive three and a half hours to come paddleboard for her birthday. But I woke up and I came for the dinner and then I stayed for the weekend. Anyways, we go to this rooftop, meet everybody. Everyone's super nice, having a good time. Everyone seemed to be in good spirits. I don't think I said more than a hey to Lauren at that point. I mean, we weren't really vibing, basically, physically.

her and I thought we didn't like each other because Jess made us seem awful to each other. So I was talking to Danny and Caden and then April at this point. Dinner was fine. And then we went to go get drinks afterwards. And mind you, Jess was never a huge drinker. I don't know if that's so she didn't spill the beans, but she wanted to go out, grab some drinks that night. And we had gone to a local bar on the island.

Then right down the road, there was another bar that was known for like crazy young military boys and more of a party scene versus like a neighborhood bar.

And I had always wanted to go there just because it looked iconic on the island, like just an experience. You wanted to get there. I knew they had big fish bowls and like a dance floor. And I just thought it would be a fun time on a birthday. And Lauren wanted to go there. And so we're like, why not? And you could tell Jess was annoyed. We ended up going there. She was displeased at the entire situation. And this is when Megan met up with us. Here's Megan.

So this is the thing about Jess is when I talk about Jess, I'm using almost like a different scale than I would be using for a normal human being. If it was any other person, it wouldn't be minor. It would be a big deal. But my scale is so warped with Jess because she was acting crazy and inappropriate to such extremes all the time that when she would have a little thing that would set her off, it would be little for Jess, but it wouldn't be normal behavior. So...

One night we were out, it was Jess's birthday. So she had some friends visiting and her family visiting to celebrate her birthday. I didn't know anyone else. So obviously it was Lauren and I together and then the rest of the group. And you would think Jess would be okay because she has multiple family members and multiple quote unquote best friends, also a part of this little group outing. Everyone's happy. I think everyone's getting along, no issues.

And we're spending time together out at a bar with live music and dance floor, whatever. And I don't remember anything eventful happening up until it probably reached 1230 or one. It's pretty late. And we had all been together for hours at this point.

Jess decided that it was time to go home. And Lauren and I looked at each other and we're like, well, we're having fun. We're going to stay out. It's only another hour. They're all going home. They're going to sleep anyways. So what's the harm in that? And Jess got extremely sassy and for lack of a better term, bitchy. Jess

rolls her eyes, makes some sort of snotty comment, obviously showing that she disapproves and that they're going to have some sort of issue over this, and then starts questioning us, basically trying to poke holes at our plan to try to somehow make it inconvenient for us. It was obvious that she was extremely angry about it, and she stormed off and left. Immediately, via text, she was making Lauren feel absolutely terrible

because Lauren wasn't spending every waking second of Jess's birthday weekend with her. Even though Lauren had been with Jess every second of the weekend except for this one hour, and Lauren had been with her all night, here's Lauren.

Jess was mad at me because I took Megan to the bathroom. She didn't know any of Jess's family and it was all of Jess's friends and family. So who else is going to go with her? I'm not letting her go to the bathroom by herself in a random bar. It's just something so stupid that she would just get mad about little things like that. We had to wait in line and she was like, you guys were gone forever. You went to the bathroom and didn't come back.

I think that happened on a Saturday and then I believe on the following day on Sunday you had plans with her to go paddle boarding. Yeah, and she was like, don't worry about it. Like she threw a fit. Lauren and her were supposed to go paddle boarding and she left without telling Lauren she was leaving and just spiraled into, you don't make time for me. You don't want to be my friend.

I'll just stop inconveniencing you. I'll go do things on my own. Just became a huge baby, basically. Yeah, and she would always pull this card where she'd be like, this is what sisters do when they fight. We just fight like sisters. It's going to happen. And then she absolutely emotionally terrorized me.

Here's Bree. Jess was ready to go home. And Lauren's like, we're going to stay a little bit longer. And Jess gave her like a look, like, excuse me, kind of look. You could tell Jess was fuming at this point.

So we went home and Jess is just angry texting on her phone. She doesn't hide that or her face. Come to find out after everything, she'd been texting Lauren, telling her how bad of a friend she was and just all of these crazy things for wanting to stay and not leave with the group.

And she told me that she was upset that Lauren chose to stay. And I couldn't understand why she was so affected by it because in so many other conversations and circumstances, she was so sick of Lauren and she never said good things about her. Like occasionally they'd go on a trip and it would be so random to me because the week before they had been ripping each other's heads off for jest.

And then they'd go to like a concert or they'd go on a little road trip. But I never knew when they were on good terms.

I also brought it up to Jess. I was like, I feel weird because when I come and then I want to invite her and you say, no, you need your own friends. But sometimes she's invited and sometimes she's not. I would be kind of hurt if I was in that situation. And Jess was like, she always goes out with her friends like she's fine. It was so weird because I was supposed to be able to read Jess's mind when Lauren was welcome and when she wasn't. I never understood that.

why she just wasn't always welcome. Like Lauren talks about how they were best friends and she only said negative things to me and my mom. Here's Bree's mom.

Jess was so good at keeping everybody separate. She would say to Brie, well, you know, Lauren's nuts. I mean, she's out of her mind, blah, blah, blah. Jess was always so good at making sure those people were like never alone together or even become friends because Jess would make up lies about them. And then she would turn around and say, Lauren, Brie's like super high maintenance. You

She made sure there was always this division between her and Lauren. And now like what Brie says, there was always this division between Monica and Brie. Here's Monica.

I was still friends with Jess even after I was done with Brody, even after she moved. Jess as a friend was starting to get pretty toxic. I told the story about how she yelled at me for going to St. Louis one time and it was a huge ordeal. Hearing about her family drama all the time, constantly hearing about how hard it was to be roommates with Bree and how hard it was to be friends with her.

When my friends are upset, I take in those feelings. So her always being upset was draining to me when it wasn't even my problems. So yeah, her moving to North Carolina was good.

Since she was the only person I had that was in connection to Brody and me being done with Brody, also having her away a bit would make me think of him less and wonder less. She would still FaceTime me and call me. And when she would come home, she would visit. We did a photo shoot when she was here and grab dinner together.

I had plans to go to North Carolina sometime when I could. She would always talk about Bree to me and saying, oh yeah, just Princess Bree, everything has to be perfect. Tell me that Bree just doesn't care for me, so I couldn't hang out with them. Same thing with Lauren. I talked to Lauren a few times on the phone with Jess, of course. We could not be left alone to talk about anything. It was just very brief conversations.

Same thing after she moved to North Carolina and talk about how hard it is to be roommates with Lauren and having to drive her and all this stuff. And I'm like, these are some of your best friends. And all I hear you do is complain about them.

Jess started a photography business and Brie and I both did some photos with her just to help her with content and advertising for her website and whatever. She would make comments to me about, I don't know, not Brie being jealous, but like thinking that I'm better at taking photos than her. And I have always been jealous of Brie because I think she's just gorgeous and smart and

May 28th of 2023, I went boating with some of my really good friends. And one of their cousins was also there who worked at the hospital with Jess when she worked in the Des Moines area. So she knew Jess. We were boating and just kind of hanging out and drinking. And she randomly asked me about Jess and

Like, yeah. So how did you and Jess meet? I don't think I ever heard how you and Jess met. And I was like, oh, well, it's kind of a funny story. Like I was talking to a guy and that's how I met Jess. His name is Brody and he lived in Omaha. And she right away was like, oh, is that the same guy that Brie was talking to? Brie and I had talked about this too. Like we were both

had the same feelings because since we couldn't do anything at the same time, you know, I would go to Omaha with Jess. And meanwhile, Brie is at home worried that I am going to Omaha with Jess and I'm going to meet Brody and Brody's going to fall in love with me and not want Brie anymore. And it was the same for me, vice versa.

Every time Jess and Brie would go to Omaha or to Colorado or wherever, all these places that Brody was, I would be worried he's going to meet Brie, this gorgeous, smart girl, and not even give two shits about me anymore. And this is three years after I had been done with Brody. So then I also thought maybe within that three years, Brody and Brie had started talking. But I

was curious and also upset. So I messaged him after that day and was just like, oh, so you talked to Bree? And he was just like, no, I don't know what you're talking about. I never talked to Bree, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, oh, well, so-and-so said that you and Bree were talking or dating. I don't care. I'm just curious because I was never good enough or you could never give me the time of day.

basically like I gave you over a year of my life and never worth it enough to actually meet me or whatever. So yeah, he denied talking to Brie or being with Brie or dating Brie or any of the things. She struck him with her motor vehicle. She had been under the influence and then she left him there.

In January 2022, local woman Karen Reid was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O'Keefe. It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location. What happens next depends on who you ask.

Was it a crime of passion? If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling. This was clearly an intentional act. And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia. Or a corrupt police cover-up. If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover-up to prevent one of their own from going down. Everyone had an opinion.

And after the 10-week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision. To end in a mistrial, it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is. Law and Crime presents the most in-depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen. ♪

You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify. I'm Dan Taberski. In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York. I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad. I'm like, stop f***ing around. She's like, I can't hear you.

I can't. A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast. It's like doubling and tripling, and it's all these girls. With a diagnosis the state tried to keep on the down low. Everybody thought I was holding something back. Well, you were holding something back intentionally. Yeah, yeah, well, yeah.

Is this the largest mass hysteria since The Witches of Salem? Or is it something else entirely? A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios, Hysterical.

Follow Hysterical on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can binge all episodes of Hysterical early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery+. Here's Brie. Before the Parker concert, I was super excited, and it was the day after, quote, Brody's birthday. We'd been talking about it for a long time, and Jess, her real self, was really excited for this. And basically the whole friend group had gotten tickets. And I was like, oh my gosh, this is so cool.

So the day before the concert was Brody's birthday, and I had been asking him, what do you want to do? Let's do something. Let's meet up like all day. I don't remember what he brought up, but it was something not from that weekend to just be mad about and sabotage the entire day. I'm like, you're stalling, kind of like Lauren had touched on. He would just stall and backtrack, and it was mindless fighting.

Come to, it's dinner time. I'm sitting with Jess crying in a restaurant because this freaking guy is choosing to fight with me, ruin his own birthday, ruin another day for me. It was just horrible. It was just...

a terrible feeling. It's like every few days or once a week I'm trying to just get away, but it's still like deep down I wanted one good memory. I wanted something to make sense in this and I just couldn't understand why he couldn't just get over it for a day.

Here's Lauren. That was the night that I drove to Wilmington and sat in the parking lot for an hour waiting for him. It's actually funny. It's at the restaurant that I work at now in the parking lot out there. He couldn't give me an address and he said, park out here and I'll come get you. I sat out there for an hour at least. And I said, if you're not here in 10 minutes, I'm leaving. And

And he's not responding, not responding. And he texts me as soon as I'm about to leave. And he said, sorry, I was sleeping. Let me take a shower and I'll be right there. And that's when I was like, no, you're not taking a shower. Like if you don't come right now, I'm not seeing you. This is done. Then he starts manipulating me being like, come on, I just need to shower. I want to be clean when I see you. Then I go and drive to the beach and just sit on the beach. I think that at that moment, I was like, I don't think I'm ever going to see him. Here's Danny.

We all went to the same concert. We went to Parker McCollum that morning. I think Jess called me or she texted me. She was like, oh my God, Brie slept at her house and we were all supposed to go to that concert. Brie woke up and just started fighting with her boyfriend and being absolutely ridiculous. Basically reading me text messages. And I put a note in my brain like, how do you see this text messages? It's very bizarre. But she was saying that she...

immediately woke up, started fighting with this guy. And she's like, I don't get why Brie does this and why she just immediately attacks him. Jess told me they were travel nurses together and they met in Charlotte. And now he lives in Charleston is what she told me. And he was supposed to come to the concert and meet Brie. In my brain, she told me that they have met before, but I didn't know otherwise. I only...

I only knew that he was going to come to the concert tonight, but Brie started freaking out on him and then he wasn't going to come anymore or he wasn't going to come see her. That's what Jess said to me. Here's Brie again. So then the following day is the concert. I believe Brad and his wife were going to go and his cousin, Will, was supposed to go. And then myself, Jess, Danny, Lauren, Jess's other friend, we all went together.

Megan and Lauren went together, but they didn't start with us. And Jess was mad because I didn't know this was one of the plans Lauren was welcoming. I couldn't keep up. So I wasn't surprised if she went with Megan and did her own thing like that wasn't weird, but it was weird to Jess and it made Jess mad. I just could not wrap my head around it because half the time she wanted her there, half the time she didn't.

Lauren was with Megan, but then they came over. We all kind of stood together, but Jess was mad that Megan was there. Here's Lauren.

This was when the anxiety started for me because I knew that Jess was going to get mad if I rode with them. Someone made a comment saying that they thought I was going to be sitting with Megan and Jess said something like, well, that would be really messed up if she did. If I went to go sit with Megan and her friend at the front row, I ended up sacrificing the front, one of the front row pit seats because I didn't want her mad when the concert was happening.

was getting texts from him but he was already saying stuff like you're with her I know you're with her so don't bother trying to see me tonight Brody was also at this concert and I knew I wasn't going to see him at this point I just was trying to enjoy the concert also

Also, the crazy thing is Jess was high off her mind that night. She was in la-la land. And it's so weird because I didn't feel like I got that version of Brody when I was texting him. He didn't seem like he was in her mindset at all.

So he said Brad and Mel are all over each other. I said, could be us. And then he said, nah, you're too busy. And I'm just hoping not with her. LOL. I said, why? And he said, keep her away from me. I put a question mark and he said, I said what I said.

I said, you have no reason not to like her. I'm not with her right now. If you want to come say hi. And he said, you will be though after I'm sure not with me. I said, so is that a noticing me now? And then he said, I'd like to, I said, where are you? And he said in the pit, come up. And I took a picture of the security guard guy that was standing by the door. And I said, come get me. And he said, ha ha, just tell him I'm up here or I'll get you.

Which it's these little things in these little conversations where I was constantly in my head being like, this is the first time once again that we're trying to meet. Why is he not busting his ass trying to get to me? That urgency was never there.

So that really messed with me a lot. At that concert, I knew it wasn't going to happen. So I said, let me know if you want to see me. And he said, what the fuck, lol. I said, I'm not stressing it. He said, I never said I didn't want to see you. Do you want up here? And I said, just as high. She just tried to go on an adventure. Here's Brie. So at this point, I'm trying to get in touch with Brody and I'm

I was describing where I was and I believe Lauren was doing the same thing I was doing at this time. And he's like, why would I want to see you after how you treated me yesterday? Flipped the whole thing on me being upset that he bailed on me for his birthday. Just like, why would I even want to see you? I'm going to go listen to music that I like and ignore me. Wouldn't meet me. Of course, he's not real.

But in my head, I'm just like, he's this mad at me. He's willing to ruin this entire weekend, this awesome concert from an artist we both love. And I was like, what are we doing? What am I doing? What is happening? I'm like, this person can't get over anything, has a grudge over everything, is telling me they want to be with me.

So at this point, I'm bawling. I had been drinking. I wasn't drunk or anything like that, but I was bawling. I was just so upset. Felt like throwing in the towel. I didn't know what else I could do. He was going to be mad at me. He was going to ruin the concert. Everyone knew I was upset. I was visibly upset, just like everyone else.

Jess was telling them not to console me, like not to go hug me. I'm not a hugger. I don't like that kind of thing, which I'm really not. But it was definitely an appropriate time for that. And Danny was kind of like, well, screw you, Jess. And she came over and gave me a hug. Here's Danny.

It was very bizarre. We're all there listening to the concert. And then I look over and Brie is crying. And I was like, what the heck? And I assumed it was about her boyfriend situation. I looked at Jess and I said, what's going on? And she said, she's just crying about her boyfriend and rolled her eyes. I was like, oh, my God. So I hugged her and I didn't say anything. I just gave her a hug and we continued on with the night.

And nothing was ever said after that. But we always look back on that night as so pivotal that like anybody could have said anything to each other and we could have probably figured it out then. But Jess manipulated it so much where we didn't mention anything.

She would cut it so close to almost getting caught. And it was like arousal. It was fun for her and exciting to like almost get caught, but she never would. I mean, we even had a group picture together. It's so crazy to think. I laugh because it's insane, not because it's funny. It's absolutely this whole situation is just so crazy. I've never heard of it.

I look over at one point and Bree's crying while in the middle of this concert. And I just reached out and grabbed her hand because I didn't want to talk to her, ask her what was going on. But I just wanted her to know that I was there for support, not knowing that she was crying about Brody.

And Brody was texting me during that time, pissing me off, trying to tell me that he didn't want to see me tonight because I was with Megan and all this stuff. But all while we're at the concert and Jess is right there with us and we had no idea and still didn't know for several months later.

Even Lauren came over. It was one of the worst nights of my life, which sucks to say because it was such a good concert, but like everything that went with it. And she's just watching the entire time. And then she's telling Danny and Lauren how frustrated she was that I was crying and just...

being the worst human. There's no words. And Lauren, she took a picture of the flagpole or whatever we were by and sent it to him. Like she was literally doing the same thing.

And then I said, are you going out? He said, yeah, come with me. Where are you? I said, I'm going out. You can come get me. And he said, LOL. Okay. Have fun with her. I said, I said, come get me. If you have time for me, let me know. I don't want her around me. You're welcome with any of your other friends. I said, I just said, you can come and pick me up. And then he said, you didn't respond to me. You'll have to get a ride here. I didn't drive. And I said, you can Uber me there. I'm going to have a water and sober up a bit. I

I was trying to meet you at the end to walk out together so you could ride back with us, but you weren't responding and Brad didn't want to stay. And then I said, you can Uber me there. I don't know the address. Uber yourself to me and I'll go back with you. And he said, I'm not going around her. I can get you at Sundays or one of the bars wherever you want to go. He said, where are you? I think she's just wanting me to like go all over the town trying to meet up with him. And

And he said, I'm not sending one when it's easier for you to just order it from your exact location and put Oceanic in and I can walk over. But I'm falling asleep, so I'm worried about it. I said, just don't worry. I'll go home. I'm not going to risk it. And he said, I don't think you're wanting to Uber here. You're finding ways to stall and I'm getting tired. I said, send me address.

He said, I can meet you wherever you want that you're comfortable with. He says, we're doing brunch for my birthday and I'd really like you to be there. Don't come tonight. I'm falling asleep and don't want to do that to you.

On June 4th, I said, okay, Brody, if you want to know the truth, I honestly don't think I'll ever see you in my life. And I'm coming to terms with that. He said, noted. If you change your mind and want to let me know. I said, I keep trying to come and you don't go through with it. And he said, just like this morning, you ignored that. Then after the show, we waited, but you weren't responding. So we left. Lauren, I was honest after waiting and told you maybe don't come because I was sleepy. Didn't want what happened the night before. So I shouldn't have that held against me.

I just didn't want to let you down. I could have told you to come and then you would have been even more upset because I wasn't awake. I didn't go out with everyone after I showered and got in bed. I'm like, I told you I'm not coming to you again. Here's messages again about Megan. I said, you're rude and disrespectful. I've never in my life seen someone act as childish and insecure as you. And he said, you're not going to treat me how you do either about it. I don't

I don't like her and you know that. Then last night you were with her again, overcoming with us like I told you I wanted you to do. He calls her a thing. The thing you keep choosing over me. Oh my god, here it is again. I'm not talking about last night, dumbass. I clearly knew you were at the bars downtown where you are every weekend with that thing. I said I don't care if you don't like someone. Learn to treat people with respect. Even if you don't, it might get you a little farther in life.

He said, "I don't need anything to do with her and I'm not going to. That's not disrespectful." He said, "She isn't here for a long time and I'm fully aware of that. You're good for her right now until better comes along and you'll see that. I just don't want to be around her and you're not going to make me. And I'm going to have problems if you're constantly choosing to do things with her over time with me when I moved my life once again for you." Like he moved to North Carolina.

Here's Bree again. After that night, the next day when I was supposed to drive home, I started driving and all of a sudden Brody had a change of heart and wanted to be nice for five minutes. And I'm like, well, I can turn around. And he's like, you already told me you were on your way home. So I'm going fishing with Brad.

And I drove back to Jess's crying. I could not understand the person who had used to say all of these good, nice things and like how they felt about me. It had just turned into only awful, toxic fights nonstop every day. I couldn't mentally get out of it, no matter what. I knew it wasn't good. I knew it was awful. I knew what it was doing to me at this point. But it just...

It just continued on till the very end, till I knew 1000% that it was Jess. Next time on Something Was Wrong. I don't think I'll ever forget it. I remember instantly thinking to myself, wow, this is unlike anything I've ever heard before. My job was on the floor and saying to Lauren, something is really wrong. You shouldn't be getting treated like this. And it's extremely likely that Brody is not who he says he is.

I think Jess lost her mind and started being so angry right before this all was uncovered and blew up because she was losing control over Lauren.

She had sent me screenshots of Lauren explaining like, hey, so Jess is a fucking psychopath and I'm moving out immediately. She's been catfishing me as my boyfriend Brody for this many years. Jess wasn't the actual fuck. Are you him? Tell me the fucking truth. She said, I will call you. I said, tell me the fucking truth. You're a sick, sick person, Jess. You need serious help. And I honestly pity you. Enjoy your karma, you fucking psychopath.

Thank you so much for listening. Until next time, stay safe, friends. Something Was Wrong is a Broken Cycle Media production created and hosted by me, Tiffany Reese. This season, our theme song, You Think You, by Gladrags, is covered by Palehound. For music and tour dates, go to palehound.com.

If you'd like to support the show further, you can share episodes with your loved ones, leave a positive review, or follow Something Was Wrong on Instagram at somethingwaswrongpodcast. As always, thank you so much for listening. You think you know me

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If you like Something Was Wrong, you can listen early and ad-free right now by joining Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Prime members can listen ad-free on Amazon Music. Before you go, tell us about yourself by filling out a short survey at wondery.com slash survey.

Scammers are best known for living the high life until they're forced to trade it all in for handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit once they're finally caught. I'm Sachi Cole. And I'm Sarah Hagee. And we're the host of Scamfluencers, a weekly podcast from Wondery that takes you along the twists and turns of some of the most infamous scams of all time, the impact on victims, and what's left once a facade falls away.

We've covered stories like a Shark Tank certified entrepreneur who left the show with an investment but soon faced mounting bills, an active lawsuit filed by Larry King, and no real product to push. He then began to prey on vulnerable women instead, selling the idea of a future together while stealing from them behind their backs.

acts. To the infamous scams of Real Housewives stars like Teresa Giudice, what should have proven to be a major downfall only seemed to solidify her place in the Real Housewives Hall of Fame. Follow Scamfluencers on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Scamfluencers early and ad-free right now on Wondery Plus.