S20 E11: (Finale Part 1) She's a Loose Cannon
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Something Was Wrong is intended for mature audiences and may be distressing for some listeners. For a full trigger warning for each episode and for a list of resources for survivors and their loved ones, please see the episode notes. Pseudonyms are given to all minors and some survivors in these stories for their privacy and protection. Testimony shared by guests of the show is their own and does not necessarily reflect the views of myself, Broken Cycle Media, or

or Wondery. This podcast and any linked materials should not be construed as medical advice, nor is the information a substitute for professional medical expertise or treatment. In response to the allegations against Jessica Pauly, she responded with no comment. Thank you so much for listening.

Dr. Robert D. Hare is considered one of the world's foremost experts on psychopathy. He's a professor and the developer of one of the most widely used tools for assessing psychopathy, the Psychopath Checklist, and the author of over a hundred scientific articles and several books. He's received numerous awards for his distinguished contributions to psychology and criminology. The following excerpts are from his book, Without Conscience.

The disturbing world of psychopaths among us.

Given their personality, it comes as no surprise that psychopaths make good imposters. They have no hesitation in forging and brazenly using impressive credentials to adopt chameleon-like professional roles that give them prestige and power. When things begin to fall apart, as they usually do, they simply pack up and move on. Psychopaths have what it takes to defraud and bilk others. They're fast-talking, charming, self-assured, at ease in social situations,

cool under pressure, unfazed by the possibility of being found out, and totally ruthless. And even when exposed, they can carry on as if nothing happened, often leaving their accusers bewildered and uncertain about their own positions. One question runs like a refrain through the stories told by the victims of psychopaths. How could I be so stupid? How could I have fallen for that incredible line of baloney? And when victims aren't asking themselves,

somebody else is sure to pose the question, how on earth could you have been taken in to that extent? The characteristic answer, you had to be there. It seemed reasonable and plausible at the time. The clear and largely valid implication is that had we been there, we too might've been sucked in. Some people are simply too trusting and gullible for their own good, ready targets for any smooth talker who comes along. But what about the rest of us?

The sad fact is that we're all vulnerable. Few people are such sophisticated and perceptive judges of human nature that they cannot be taken in by the machinations of a skilled and determined psychopath. Even those who study them are not immune. As I've indicated in previous chapters, my students and I are sometimes conned, even when aware that we're dealing with a probable psychopath.

Of course, pathological lying and manipulation are not restricted to psychopaths. What makes psychopaths different from all others is the remarkable ease with which they lie, the pervasiveness of their deception, and the callousness with which they carry it out. They are capable of controlling their behavior, and they are aware of the potential consequences of their acts.

Their problem is that this knowledge frequently fails to deter them from antisocial behavior. I'm Tiffany Reese, and this is Something Was Wrong. You think you know me, you don't know me. You think you know me, you don't know me. We're not alone. We're not alone.

...the Charlotte Division of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Please be advised that this call may be recorded. FBI Charlotte.

Hi, my name is Tiffany Reese. I'm making an audio documentary and the victims that I'm working with on this case are located in North Carolina. They've had some experience and attempts at prosecution with their local police department in Pender County. But as I've been working on this case, I've found that there's victims across many state lines.

So she's literally in person stalking the victim. So it's like romance scams or confidence scams. Yes, but she's pretending to be these women's best friend for three, four, five years and is not only like...

sexually abusing them she's terrorizing them she's threatening them under the pretense of they're like in some sort of relationship kind of and that she's this fake person that she's created this identity for using these other men's photos they're really hard to summarize no I hear you and it sounds like as you said you've gathered a lot of information and kind of laid things out and and

in a very methodical way that would be helpful. But I mean, the best way to report this would be to go to our National Threat Assessment Center because they're the ones that would, first of all, they're trained professionally to ask the right questions and get the right information. Unlike me, I'm just a public information officer, so that's why I'm asking these kinds of questions that I'm asking.

So there's two things. There's tips.fbi.gov and there's something that you can fill out there. You can also upload material. So if you were talking about the document of the timeline or whatever, you could upload that. But you could also speak to a person if you did the 1-800-CALL-FBI, which is the 225-5324.

Great. But they have kind of like, you know, a specific thing that they go through sort of with, you know, with all callers and then they're able to kind of gather from there like other questions they should ask and kind of how they should move forward and then which field offices, you know, kind of would get, you know, the lead on this tip. And it sounds like, you know, at this point it might even be wherever she is in Florida. So I wouldn't want to try to direct

you to somebody if it wouldn't end up being in our office. I wouldn't want to send you to a bunch of different places, if that makes sense. No, I appreciate that. Okay, great. Well, thank you so much. This is super helpful. Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you. I appreciate everything you're doing. Thank you. All right. Take care. Bye-bye. Hello. Thank you for calling the FBI. In a few moments, you will be connected to an operator. This call will be recorded for quality assurance, investigative, or other purposes.

Some states have passed red flag laws that restrict individuals from having firearms based on the belief they are a danger to themselves or others. Your local law enforcement agency may have more information on these laws. Your call is very important to us and will be answered in the order it was received. Music

Thank you for calling the SBI. Can I get the spelling of your last name? Sure. It's R-E-E-S-E, Reese. And what crime are you calling to report to the SBI today? I am calling to report on behalf of a group of victims. It is a case that I am working on as a documentarian and survivor advocate that involves a group

Potentially 30 victims. I called the Charlotte, North Carolina FBI field office, and they recommended that I call here to the threat assessment center to provide some more insight. Okay. And so then has any of these victims reported this to their local law enforcement? Yes. And so what happened was the North Carolina victims, and there are victims in many states, but with the group of North Carolina victims,

So we have a criminal timeline I've put together based off of all the interviews we've been conducting and the information we found. So I don't know if there's somebody I could send it to or if I could send it directly to you to include with this report or whatnot. We also have like our digital box folders where we're organizing and cataloging all of the evidence. So unfortunately, there's no place for you to go ahead and send this information. What I do recommend, though, is going ahead and keeping or holding on to it.

Okay. In case someone does need to reach out to you, you have reached, as the previous individual told you, the National Threat Operations Center for the FBI. We are an intake facility and I'm not part of any investigative team or process, so I can't say what will happen with the information you provided me other than it has been documented here within our system. But definitely keep a hold of that evidence that you have in case someone does need to reach out to you regarding what you've reported today. Okay, fantastic.

And then I do also recommend just continue having the victims report to local police and make them aware of the situation. And then if new information does arise, you are more than welcome to call the FBI back to provide that additional information. But definitely continue.

continue to have them report to their local law enforcement as they will be their first responders. All right. Well, I do, as I stated earlier, have this information here documented. Definitely hold on to that information regarding the timeline that you previously reported to me. And again, you can also have the victims report the cyber stalking and the Internet impersonation to the FBI's Internet Crimes Complaint Center.

At IC3.gov, it is a subdivision of the FBI that investigates cyber-related activity. Perfect. And so if they wanted to report that there as well, that would be a good place to also start regarding that cyber-stalking, like that online impersonation.

Awesome. I have actually worked with another victim who had great success using that platform. So I appreciate the reminder and I thank you for your time. Of course. I want to thank you for calling us in today and I hope you have a great day, ma'am. You too. Bye-bye.

field office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

Thank you for calling the FBI. Can I have your first and last name? All right. And what are you calling to report today? So I already called the national line and spoke with someone there to report, in general, the predator that I'll be referencing today. But just to give you a little bit of background information.

And so the group ended up finding 12 through their own investigation. They came to me. I make audio documentaries, essentially in the podcast format. We're also looking into making an on-screen documentary about it as well. But essentially we've now, like I said, got 18 confirmed victims. So where Tampa comes in is the real Brody, his name is ****,

He has been living in Tampa for quite some time. So the real Brody, I'm connected with him. He's also going to be a part of the documentary. Okay. Yeah, I will definitely get all this information documented for you, and I'm going to make a report out of this, okay? Okay. Thank you so, so much. Of course. You have a good day, Tiffany. You too. Bye-bye. Bye. Holy fucking shit. The FBI from Florida just called me. I'm about to call her back. I'm going to send you the voicemail. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.

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In January 2022, local woman Karen Reed was implicated in the mysterious death of her boyfriend, Boston police officer John O'Keefe. It was alleged that after an innocent night out for drinks with friends, Karen and John got into a lover's quarrel en route to the next location. What happens next depends on who you ask.

Was it a crime of passion? If you believe the prosecution, it's because the evidence was so compelling. This was clearly an intentional act. And his cause of death was blunt force trauma with hypothermia. Or a corrupt police cover-up. If you believe the defense theory, however, this was all a cover-up to prevent one of their own from going down. Everyone had an opinion.

And after the 10-week trial, the jury could not come to a unanimous decision. To end in a mistrial, it's just a confirmation of just how complicated this case is. Law and Crime presents the most in-depth analysis to date of the sensational case in Karen. You can listen to Karen exclusively with Wondery Plus. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app, Apple Podcasts, or Spotify.

Hi, this message is for Tiffany. My name is Loretta. I am a special agent with the FBI out of the office down in Florida. When you get a chance, could you please give me a call back? This is a good contact phone number for me. Again, my name is Loretta with the FBI.

So fast forward, I speak to the FBI and then they reach out to you. What can you tell us about how that went? And were you nervous? You have no idea. I was so, so nervous. You know, it was very cordial. I went in on my own regard, like I didn't do anything wrong, but still like I was so nervous. I was like, it's the fucking FBI, you

You know, I got such encouraging messages from you, from Bree, from Lauren. I was like, I got this. So me and my one of my good friends, we drove down there because I didn't want to go alone. I didn't even go inside the actual office. Like it was just like a waiting room. And it had the pictures of all the major politicians and the president. And then there was like two interview rooms. So one, I think JP comes out.

And then he's like, we're waiting for one more person, but nice to meet you, blah, blah, blah. I mean, this guy's, oh, it was just funny. Was he super young? Yeah, I was like, this guy's an FBI agent. I was like, there's no way. His business card was a scrap of paper. No, literally, he gave me a scrap of paper with his name, phone number, and email. I know it's like a satellite branch. Hopefully he'll be scrappy, right? To crack a case. Exactly. Exactly.

Then I believe it was Loretta who I met with and she was, you can tell she's been around the block. She knows what she's doing. I basically talked to her most of the time, but JP was, he was great. Like, I mean, he asked a lot of questions. He

He was writing everything down, taking notes. But it was kind of disheartening a little bit because they were like, honestly, when we see these kind of cases, like a lot of the time, it's something violent. But with this situation, it's just different because we see a lot of smoke and usually there's fire with that. But she was like, all we see right now is smoke. There's not really much we can do. But she was like, we have a prosecutor that's very interested in this case. And for you, at least...

We want to try to get justice. So we're going to try to find a statue that we can get her on. And in my head, I'm like, just bring her in and have her take a polygraph. Like search your devices. In my email back to them, I was like, please find her confession in writing her confession on video. And I was like, hopefully this is enough to get a search warrant. And she's in Florida. And we already started hearing from people she's going to live with her dad. Where does he live? In Iowa. Oh, my God.

It's terrifying to think about now that this girl who caused so much pain and anguish to all these people and being either obsessed with me or obsessed of destroying these young women's lives. What's stopping her for coming after the person and just killing me?

If she can find all these pictures and she can somehow get photos from my camera roll, what's stopping her from finding out where I live? So that's the number one thing I'm scared about because I don't know if she's watching me, if she's around me somehow. Like, I don't know. God forbid I run into her. She's starting to realize that things are spying out of control and that's when people are most dangerous. It's because she knows that everything is catching up to her. It's not going to be long until it's all over for her.

So I feel like she's going to try her best, whatever that may be, to take out as many people as she can on her way out. Whether that's with violence or starting to catfish more and more and more and more and more. I don't know. She's a loose cannon. I told the FBI one thing at the end. I said, if you ever get her on anything and you want to arrest her, I want to be there. I want you to bring me with you.

They're like, well, we can try to arrange that. It is Thursday, May 23rd. Just a quick update.

very successful week. The season 20 survivors, well, Lauren and Bree met with the ADA, Jerry Hannett today, another attorney and an officer who works specifically in sex crimes. They reviewed all of the evidence. They have access to box. They have access to the timeline and screenshots, all of that good stuff. They took notes. They said they seem very motivated and

They were listening, they were taking them seriously. They seemed to much better grasp the circumstances versus when they first met the ADA and had five minutes to explain to him what was going on before he would decide if Jess would receive charges or not. They talked to them about all the things that I put on the list and they felt strongly on a few charges it sounded like. That would be nice if we could figure a few of them out.

Anyways, just get them charges, baby girl. I'm so excited. Hopefully their notes, they'll be able to share them with us too. But oh my God. How do you see Lauren today? How do you feel she's doing today?

I think she feels so much stronger. I feel like she's very proud of herself for moving on. She said, "Mom, it's so great. I have friends who want me to have other friends. It's awesome. It's so nice to go out and just have fun and not feel like you can't go out or not feel like you're going to get in trouble for going out or can't have other friends." She's so happy. She's really flourished and got her strength back and got her confidence back. Makes me so happy.

I'm curious what your thoughts were when Lauren told you about the podcast and them speaking publicly and using their real names as her mom. I was so excited because I kept saying, you need to get this story out there. And I even said, you know, I don't know if I said podcast or TV shows or whatever. I said, this would make the best movie because there's so many twists and turns. It constantly keeps you on the edge of your seat. And

And so when Lauren told me that you guys were thinking about doing podcasts, I'm like, oh my gosh, that is so awesome. And I'm so thankful that it was y'all that chose them because I feel like that you're really, you care about the story. You know, you're not just doing it to have a story. You really, really care about what all these girls have been through and what Jess has done and you want to try to get help for them. And Lauren told me how you said maybe all the information that y'all have gathered that

Maybe they can take that to the DA and get this thing going with the felony charge. I think it's just awesome.

It's just awesome to get them to know them as individuals and stuff too. And all of their really close loved ones. It's such a privilege to be able to like have a front row seat to not only them trusting me with the really hard parts, but the privilege to like get to meet you and Megan and Emily and the other people who love them and have been there for them. Because I think that deserves celebrating as well, right? The people who show up for you.

The realest people in your life are the people who show up for you at your darkest times and also celebrate you when you're on the opposite side at your highest times. So I can't thank you enough. Oh, thank you. Laura was saying that she said, Tiffany is just awesome. She comes on to the group chats and she's always on there. She's so into this. She's so into this story and she really cares. I just love that. I really hope that

Anyone out there that if they're going through this, don't be embarrassed. Just open your eyes and see the red flags and respect yourself and have confidence. You deserve so much better than this. Get out of that situation. Don't let it get to the point where it has with these girls and years going by and hurting your health and your mental state and everything. And if you haven't had that happen, be more aware when you are talking to new people about

Here's Lauren's cousin.

I've noticed a huge difference and I've even had family members of mine say that she's started acting back to herself again. Whenever she was with Jess and living with Jess and

She had just gotten so cut off from anyone besides Jess and her family and a couple friends, but she was just depleted. And I feel like she's definitely got her mojo back now that Jess isn't in her life because she's going out, she's making friends, she's meeting guys. You can definitely tell the difference. My mom has even mentioned the last time that Lauren came up to see us, like, wow, Lauren seems back to herself.

which is crazy that even my mom can see that. Yeah, that's beautiful. Here's Bree's mom.

I know people that are listening to this, and I know this is going to be the number one thing on so many people is like, why would you do this? Why would you not meet somebody? How could you not know? All questions that a million times I've asked myself. I mean, Brie, you are a smart girl. But I believe that there isn't one person on the planet that could tell

take, say, this is my best friend. This is my ride or die. This is my person. And then find out that that person was not who they thought they were, that this person who they trusted with their whole self could do something like this to this level for so long.

Nobody believes that that person in their life could do this. And that's why it's so hard.

Because Jess was, in Brie's mind, her best friend. Jess always helped Brie. When Brie was sad, Jess was there. When Brie's car was getting fixed, Jess was there. I think that's super important that people understand that we all had that question over and over. I feel like we asked the questions. I feel like we did the things.

We just never thought to look across the room and consider that this person could hurt us to this degree and at this level.

In my first interview I did with Dani, when she described the sound that Brie made, when they asked her over the phone, did you ever meet him in real life? And she had that realization confirmed. Obviously, by that point, she's highly suspect. But when they asked her that question, and to me, that really speaks volumes. That was her reality, whether or not it was for other people, it absolutely was real to her.

Yeah. Yeah. I remember having a conversation with Bree when we found this out, fresh finding this out. I said, the only thing that you did wrong was trust the wrong person. That's all you did. You trusted the wrong person. And I told her, this is fixable. There's no good in shaming. Let's start healing now. You know, easier said than done because it didn't happen to me.

She like physically ill for days. And I'm sure she had horrible thoughts. I'm sure she did. As I think probably most people would be like, how could I, you know, I'm an idiot. We're all really good at self-sabotage and beating ourselves up. So,

Let's move forward and make this kind of bullshit known that this is what people are capable of. People do this. They do it for thrills. This whole situation needs to be brought out. It's horrendous and it leaves a mark. I mean, it's always going to be there. I mean, it'll scar and it'll be covered up, but it's always going to be there. How do you build your trust back up after something like this? How do you?

That is a lot. And how do you start believing in yourself and realizing that you are a good person, you do have value and get your confidence back? She has done some damage to them with their mental health. She's been an expert at this for so many years. And for God's sake, I mean, Jess is in her 30s. Who acts like this?

If you know someone that is demonstrating things like Jess or has tendencies like that, be mindful of it. Don't ignore it because it just gets bigger and it grows and it doesn't grow into good things. And she's on TikTok acting like this didn't happen right now. She's healing and in a better place and doesn't do that anymore. Really? You just...

you just quit after 20 years. You just decided that now would be a good time to heal. Enjoy that beach bitch. Cause it's going away. It's funny too. Like her sister's Facebook account, because I am who I am. I go out and then I also look at her dad's Facebook account and I'm watching what they're posting. Her sister has like, now it's all church. Everything's gone.

and everything's church. Pictures and videos of her husband at church. And I'm like, "Hmm, okay. All right. I see where we're going with this." And her dad posting things about some people just need drama. He had posted this on October 11th of 2023.

there's a picture it's morgan freeman says dear parents if you always defend your children's mistakes one day you will hire a lawyer to defend their crime discipline is not child abuse i'm like that's interesting oh now this was yesterday's i'll say it again unhappy people start drama for no reason i'm like keep that same energy when the episodes leak

I'm Dan Taberski. In 2011, something strange began to happen at the high school in Leroy, New York. I was like at my locker and she came up to me and she was like stuttering super bad. I'm like, stop f***ing around. She's like, I can't. A mystery illness, bizarre symptoms, and spreading fast. It's like doubling and tripling and it's all these girls. With a diagnosis, the state tried to keep on the down low. Everybody thought I was holding something back. Well, you were holding something back intentionally. Yeah, yeah, well, yeah.

No, it's hysteria. It's all in your head. It's not physical. Oh my gosh, you're exaggerating. Is this the largest mass hysteria since The Witches of Salem? Or is it something else entirely? Something's wrong here. Something's not right. Leroy was the new dateline and everyone was trying to solve the murder. A new limited series from Wondery and Pineapple Street Studios. Hysterical.

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Scammers are best known for living the high life until they're forced to trade it all in for handcuffs and an orange jumpsuit once they're finally caught. I'm Sachi Cole. And I'm Sarah Hagee. And we're the host of Scamfluencers, a weekly podcast from Wondery that takes you along the twists and turns of some of the most infamous scams of all time, the impact on victims, and what's left once the facade falls away.

We've covered stories like a Shark Tank certified entrepreneur who left the show with an investment but soon faced mounting bills, an active lawsuit filed by Larry King, and no real product to push. He then began to prey on vulnerable women instead, selling the idea of a future together while stealing from them behind their backs.

To the infamous scams of Real Housewives stars like Teresa Giudice, what should have proven to be a major downfall only seemed to solidify her place in the Real Housewives Hall of Fame. Follow Scamfluencers on the Wondery app or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to Scamfluencers early and ad-free right now on Wondery+.

I'm wondering, lastly, if you could talk a little bit about who Brie is today and if you see some of that sparkle coming back for her. Yes, I would love to talk about who Brie is today. Brie today, this is still new. This is not even a year ago. This is still relatively new and fresh. And we're still finding out stuff that's going on.

She has taken big steps forward and yes, her sparkle, it is coming back. She has made changes in how she communicates with people and she's being smart about things. She's finding her voice. She's finding her confidence. She's finding the strengths that I know she has. Like I said, she's compassionate. She's kind to a fault. She's trusting. She's all of those things times 10.

And I'm the opposite. But she's got some of me in her. I know she does. And I know that she's going to use that. She's going to step forward. She is going to use this to teach others. And like we've talked about, if we help one person, everything has been worth it.

This is a horrible thing that's happened to her and I wish it on absolutely no one. The pain, the damage. I mean, it's just, it's overwhelming to even talk about. But she's using that energy to do new things. She's changing lives and making people happy and making people happy makes her happy. And it's just so great. I do believe that she has learned an incredible lesson. It's not ever going to happen to her again. I know that.

Well, thank you so, so much. I cannot thank you enough for your willingness and all of your time. I know it's emotionally a lot to walk through. So, you know, hopefully you can do something nice for yourself this evening or sometime soon. I want to say to you too, I mean, just thank you for doing this. I don't know you, but I am going to listen to your episode because Brianna shared with me your episode. I want to listen to that.

But just for being the voice, because not everybody finds theirs. I know that is your mission is to make sure that people know about this, what to do, how to do it, where to go, what are your resources and also be the resource. If somebody pulls this crap, you're not going to sit quietly. You're that woman. You're that strong woman that broke the cycle and you're going to help the

the other people break whatever cycle they need to break so that they can just be the best humans that they possibly can. Thank you. That means a lot. Thank you very much. It's an honor.

Are you okay? No. Yeah. I just get, I don't, I get choked up when people thank me. It's like odd. Cause I'm like, I feel like the lucky one, you know? Yeah. I mean that right there. You're a, you're a, you're a fantastic human except the thanks because game recognize game, right? Exactly. Exactly. I mean, it's super easy to say, yeah, no, I'm not that great, but, and it's hard to take a compliment and what you're doing is huge. It's huge. So I thank you. Thank you. Here's Bree's friend, Emily.

I just think everyone just needs to take a step back before throwing out the immediate judgment or throwing out the immediate first thought of how could it go on for so long?

I just think as humans, we all do that comfort thing, especially in stressful situations or new moving situations where we kind of feel like something's wrong, but something's kind of going right over here. So I'll ignore the kind of wrong feeling that I have to get these friends or get comfortability in the place that I am. And I just genuinely think that letting a person in like that, like Jess and letting them emotionally control you, I think is a lot easier where

where us women almost tend to think it comes from relationships or, you know, don't let a man control you or don't let yourself fall into a relationship that's toxic. And I just genuinely don't think of friends that way. It's a scary trap, especially with the internet and everything and how realistic everyone can make it. I just think that it can honestly happen to anyone as scary as it sounds. And I just don't think it should be a snap judgment thing.

Jess has been doing this for a really long time and to have her family rally around her and cover her and protect her is so telling. Everyone should be wary of it. I genuinely just hope that going forward, there's a safer way to find people.

Honestly, because I'm single right now and having Brie go through this, the thought of even online dating or meeting a person sounds absolutely terrifying to me. And I just wish that there were just more safeguards in place. Thank you so, so much, Emily. I greatly appreciate all of your insights and the thoughts that you added. Absolutely. I appreciate it. You're great. Here's Monica's friend, Erica.

What makes the situation with Jess even more disgusting than a normal catfish, in my opinion, is the fact that she inserted herself into their lives as herself. So she pretended to be their friend and essentially used that to continue to suck them in to this

And when it's just a catfish, that's still wrong. But you don't know this person in real life. You can kind of hide behind the screen and say whatever lie you need to tell yourself to sleep at night. But Jess knew them in person. She hung out with them in person. Monica helped her move. She stayed at Monica's house. She helped with Jess's son. She was there. She was a friend to her. And this is what she got in repayment.

She literally tortured her for years of her life and continued to try to sabotage her healthy and happy relationships and continued to try to regain control over her when she realized Monica has friends that are friends with her, not with any ulterior motive because she is worthy of having friends who care about her. And then that makes us bitches.

It's sad and sick that she needed that control over them so much that she was willing to go to the lengths that she went to. And I'm glad that Monica got away from her and put the distance between them. And hopefully getting this message out in the podcast world will stop her from continuing to do this to future victims.

I hope that people who listen to this realize this is not just a story for entertainment. This is people's real lives. There were real tears shed over this person. There were true breakdowns. It ruined people's lives. I know it's easy to sit on your couch or sit in your car and listen to this and say, oh, I would never fall for that. Or how could they be so stupid or whatever you're thinking.

It's like any cycle of abuse. They tell you everything that you want to hear. They make you feel so loved, so wanted, like you're the only person and that's how they hook you. It makes it easy to believe the lies and it makes it hard to see that anyone who cared that much about you would do this to you. Then you add the extra layer of Jess, a real life person that says, I've met Brody.

I know him. I've seen him in person validating that he is a real person and you trust her as a friend and a person. It's easy to say you wouldn't fall for it, but anyone can fall for this. Anyone who is at an emotionally vulnerable point in their life, it's not hard to see how these women, smart, intelligent, beautiful women who could have had any man in real life fell for this man. And it's because he, well, Jess, was...

charming and smart and knew how to say the right things to trap them into this relationship. So I just hope people who listen to this realize that this is very harmful. It's not a joke. It's not a prank. It's not just for entertainment. And it truly can happen to anyone. It's easy to sit there and cast judgment or blame on the victim's

Don't sit there and blame victims who are being emotionally abused in, quote unquote, a fake relationship. Here's Monica's friend, Mick.

I think she definitely has more walls up now than she did previously. She went through a lot with all of that. And she's still one of the kindest, sweetest, most giving people I've ever met. And she will give her relationships her all. And I don't think that will ever change. But most...

Monica, she, love her, she struggles with anxiety. That affects her day to day and I don't know if that is trauma induced. I didn't know Monica prior to this whole situation, but I could definitely see where what she went through could have made her anxiety worse. What do you hope that listeners will keep in mind as they hear the survivors' stories this season?

I hope that they can put themselves in the victim's shoes and understand that there were so many players that Jess had made up in order to make Brody's story feel so real.

They had a human connection to Jess and to Brody through Jess. Jess was actively befriending these girls in order to make them believe that Brody was real.

It's hard to know that it went on for as long as it did, but it's understandable when the person who's playing these parts is in your life and using your life experiences to manipulate you into believing her story.

I am proud of her for having the guts to put her story out there. I know that it cannot be easy, especially having to relive through all of the events that happened in order to be able to get her story out there. I'm surprised.

So proud of her for being able to lay it all out there and get her story out there because there's not enough protections for people who are in this situation. And hopefully them being able to share their story will maybe light a fire into making sure we can protect our people from situations like this happening in the future. Here's Dani's boyfriend, Caden.

I think it felt really real when you eventually reached out because I'm like, "Oh my God, we got a platform to like talk about this." I just kept thinking, "I can't believe we're going to get to share. I can't believe that people are going to hear us." Justice felt like it was a lost cause. I wanted to see somebody partake in the consequences of their actions, if you will. I was really, really hoping that we could get this known and that more girls can be spared.

I hope that the court systems will take a different look at this. I hope that somehow we can spark something like that for this because you shouldn't be able to solicit sexual images of somebody as a catfish and have it just be unpunished. Thank you so much for listening. Until next time, stay safe, friends.

Something Was Wrong is a Broken Cycle Media production created and hosted by me, Tiffany Reese. This season, our theme song, You Think You, by Gladrags, is covered by Palehound. For music and tour dates, go to palehound.com.

If you'd like to support the show further, you can share episodes with your loved ones, leave a positive review, or follow Something Was Wrong on Instagram at somethingwaswrongpodcast. As always, thank you so much for listening. You know me, you don't know me well.

You think you know me, you don't know me. Oh. You think you know me, you don't know me.

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