Hour 1: Leeman's Dad's Fish Slap
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- What's up? It's me, Don Toliver. If I could describe the open-air bud, I would describe it as very seamless. It's like you clip it onto your ear and then sometimes you can forget it's there, but it's not going anywhere 'cause it's like clipped. It's kind of crazy.

If I could bring my music with me wherever I go, it would just make life easier and seamless without interruption. To be able to have the music on hand like that without any interruptions would be great. Check out Bose.com for more. This is the Dan Levitar Show with the Stugatz Podcast.

Would you guys say that the way that the Dallas Cowboys game went on Sunday in terms of providing content is the best possible way any of that can go, where it's not merely a loss at home? And I gave you this stat yesterday from the illustrious Babe Laufenberg. The Cowboys have now been down 20-plus in five straight games at home. That's never happened in the history of the sport. Jerry Jones is all in.

Five straight games down 20 plus at home. That's good enough just for your content machine. But let's add some things to it. Receiver loses the ball in the sun.

Micah Parsons can't stop podcasting. Just can't stop. It is such a wonderful thing. I have no idea how it is, Stugatz. This part is super interesting to me about how athletes of this generation are going to be impacted by just things that happen to athletes that are different now than they were 30 years ago, but temptation and danger is everywhere. I don't know why Sauce Gardner is bad now.

Why is Sauce Gardner bad now? The Jets. No idea why Sauce Gardner is bad now. Just told you. But Micah Parsons is maybe the only real star that team has. Like, if you want to make an argument for Dak and CeeDee Lamb, maybe, okay. But I think in terms of creating a name, voice, platform for himself, and everyone regards him as excellent as well, consensus on excellence, the biggest star they got. And he's a podcast problem.

Because he really likes his podcast. And he's not going to give away his personality to others for free. He's going to monetize it for himself. And then you've got Rex Ryan. Let's get to this sound here because Rex Ryan really took out Micah Parsons for, and you know how this is among the coaches. They do not like seeing their other coaches taken out, even though a week ago he was calling Mike McDaniel McGenius on the air. Now he's really going after Micah Parsons because Micah Parsons is

has questioned how much, how hard basically his coaching staff is working is what it feels like. McCarthy particularly. Mike McCarthy, okay, he doesn't deserve this damn comment. He doesn't. No coach does.

Look, there's some horrible coaches out there, but none of them deserve this. The kind of work that they put in as coaches, like, I'm just telling you, you're giving up family time, you're giving up all kinds of stuff in your life, and you're going to get some ass. I don't care how talented he is. That is absolutely BS.

And if you would work half as freaking hard as a damn coach does, maybe you'd be able to play every damn game. Maybe your team wouldn't just be a bunch of punks and lay it down every damn week like you're doing. How about being a damn football team? You're going to sell your damn coach out? It's a crock of, you know what.

Emotional. He said it, like half of it, right? What was the context of Micah Parsons saying Mike can leave and go wherever he wants? We have that clip here that we'll play. I took it more. He's talking about Zach. He's doing it through the prism of Zach Martin. Like these coaches can go anywhere. I feel bad for the players that might be retiring after this year. That's why I think it was kind of taken out of context with the headlines because he does say Mike McCarthy's name. But here's the full context of Micah Parsons.

You know, that's a problem I pay great about if Mike is coaching again next year. But, you know, all coaching aside, coaching, you know, Mike can leave and go wherever he wants, but guys, you know, I kind of feel bad for guys like Zach Martin and guys who might be on their last year on their way out, you know, because that's who I wanted to hold the trophy for. You know, you want to win games and do great things with those type of legends who put in more time and work than Mike McCarthy ever did. So those are the kind of guys that

I have so much sympathy and hurt for him. That can't be what Rex Ryan is reacting to. Rex Ryan can't be reacting that emotionally to those comments. There have to be other comments. It can't be that. No, I mean, those are the comments. He did go back on his podcast and kind of just reiterate what he said, but those are the original comments that Rex was speaking about. Okay, because Rex Ryan was pretty emotional there defending the coaching profession and

and went after Micah Parsons so emotionally that logic ended up going out the window because he didn't really realize the excellence of the player he's criticizing. So he had to go after him. Maybe if you cared as much as McCarthy, you wouldn't be injured. Yeah, but Micah is saying McCarthy is not, and the coaching staff is not putting the work in. And Rex is like, no.

I know what goes into being a head coach of an NFL team. What are you talking about? Why are you saying that? Micah Parsons has three sacks this year. He's played in five games. He's been injured. I don't care. I don't want to hear from him. I mean... It just feels very much like he read the headline. Never watch the video. That's... Because that was like my... When I saw the little headline on

on first take or whatever. I was like, oh my God, I can't believe he said that. Now watching that video, that's not what he said. Like, I just genuinely think he didn't watch it. I did not hear that as a criticism of Mike McCarthy in any form. Also, he's, like, whether or not he's hurt or not having, like, the all-star season you want him to have, like, he's, Micah Parsons is, like, the star of this Dallas Cowboys team. Is he? I mean, I'm not certain. Like, I think Dak probably is. I think Jerry thinks the Cowboys are the star of the team. The star in the helmet is the star of the team.

Jerry might think Jerry is the star of the team. But all this, to answer Dan's original question, all of this is good for Jerry. Because I'm not certain Jerry cares as much about winning than he does about the value of his franchise and everyone talking about his franchise, even during a bad season. And we're sitting here talking about the Cowboys today, and Jerry loves that. The difference is that Micah doesn't feel a need to impress Mike McCarthy. He's just worried about what Jerry feels like.

I feel like in most organizations, even though every team has an owner, you're trying to keep in good graces with the head coach. Where on this organization, unlike any other team, it just feels like he knows, I can kind of say whatever I want about McCarthy as long as I'm good with Jerry. Well, that's because Jerry doesn't take the coach seriously. So if Jerry's not going to take the coach seriously, then Micah's going to say whatever he wants about the coach. I think if you took a poll of players, GMs, coaches, Micah Parsons by far the most respected player, athlete ability on that team. I think everybody else falls...

pretty far short and if anybody can criticize the coach my guess is it would be him but i'm with you greg i didn't hear that at all i think that one of the things that we do and stugatz just did it and rex ryan just did it and i do find it consistently maddening in the way that sports analysis is delivered

you disagree with someone or the behavior, and then you immediately diminish their excellence. And it's like, no, man, just criticize what the person said. Don't say, is Micah Parsons a star? I don't know. I mean, what are you doing? I'm giving you my opinion. Okay, but you're not. Your opinion isn't based on the facts or his excellence. It's just based on you disagree with something he did. I mean, he's never had more than 14 sacks in a season. I mean...

I'm not certain. He's such a big star. I mean, Micah Parsons and CeeDee Lamb are the two biggest stars on that team, along with Dak, only because he's a quarterback. But I do think there's an unwritten rule in the NFL that if you're injured, if you're not playing, you sort of shut up a little bit. Nobody wants to hear...

And that wasn't being mouthy. Don't get me wrong. And he played Sunday. And he played well. He did. That's true. But he had missed like five games before that and very hurtful games for the Cowboys. Okay, but he was hurt. I understand that. But if a player gets hurt and then they don't participate in the team or have thoughts or comments about the team or feel like they're part of the team, they get criticized for that too. So how much do you want an injured player to be part of your team? Like if you have an injured player who's out several weeks, that

player is never made available to the media, just as a small example. Okay, look, you are obviously entitled to say whatever it is that you want to say about this. What I'm not going to do is say that Micah Parsons isn't more excellent at what he does for the Cowboys than anyone else is in their facility over the last 10 years of Cowboys football. I don't think there has been anyone...

more excellent at what they do than what Micah Parsons is being asked to do for the Cowboys. And I give that kind of excellence a bit of a wide berth on opinion-having, whether it is playing in the last five games because it is injured or not. Like, I just...

What kind of excellence do I have to present? So Tom Brady's the only one who's allowed to say whatever he wants? Yep, him and Michael Jordan. Can we just rip on Rex Ryan? Because you said it yourself, as Chris just pointed out. He called McDaniel McGenius and is cool just ripping on him. But don't say anything about the Dallas Cowboys, Coach. That was weird. Last week he's fine criticizing McDaniel, making name-calling. But this week it's like, hey, don't talk about the coaches. It's Coach on Coach Crime, though. This is Player on Coach Crime. Can you guys look something up for me, though? Because I thought...

what it is that got Rex Ryan angry and the emotion in what it is that he was saying was based on some sort of conclusion he was drawing on Mike McCarthy, not working hard or not caring enough. Like I thought what Rex Ryan was doing there was in defense of how hard coaches work and how much coaches care. And I didn't hear anything in Micah Parsons commentary there that questioned or criticized that. Can I have a,

make a potentially spicy take. I don't really care what Rex Ryan thinks about the Dallas Cowboys. Hmm.

No, but at the end of that Micah clip that we played, he does say he's working way more than Mike McCarthy. He says him by name. I think he means by that players work harder than coaches, but he says Mike McCarthy's name so it can be taken as a shot at Mike McCarthy, even though I still stand by he was just building up like the veteran players. He was saying McCarthy, if he does get fired, he can go anywhere. The guys he feel bad for, Zach Martin, who's been here forever, who

Puts in all the work, unlike Mike McCarthy is essentially what he's saying. Look, this part, though, OK, so if I may go and turn this into another story, which is the San Francisco story that Kyle Shanahan, who has been ravaged by Key West, says has now been squashed. There is no problem with Debo Samuel and the long snapper and the kicker. That's what Kyle Shanahan says. But I think what's happening here in both this instance and throughout football all over the place is,

is the guys who give their body to the cause do think they're giving more than anyone else to the cause because they are like whatever whatever mike mccarthy feels in terms of hurt hurt on mondays is emotional it's not physical mccarthy's in there at 4 a.m though yeah it is but he's not in there with his body collapsing for reasons other than you know he had a

breakfast burrito. That is the disconnect, though. The coaches are like, I'm in here 4 a.m. till 9 p.m. working these long hours, and the players are like, I got a concussion last week. He's 61. His body probably hurts more than the players, to be perfectly honest with you. Just getting out of bed. NFL head coaches are clogging toilets before the players are even waking up. There you go. Spicy. Put it on the poll at Levitard Show. I don't think it was that spicy a take to not care what rec. I took some Tums. A little bite to it. She said potentially spicy. She did.

In their defense. At Levitard Show. Depends how your spice tolerance is. Whose body hurts more? Whose body hurts more? 61-year-old coach getting out of bed in the morning? Football player waking up on Monday morning?

Let's examine this for a second because... I think the coach. Well, Stugatz has been doing a lot of flying lately. He's always complaining every day about his shoulder hurting and his back hurting. Or third option, my friend who got slapped in the face with a fish. That is amazing. Like, I...

You said this was Lehman's father? Lehman's father did it to Lehman's friend and then Lehman was the best man at his wedding. How cute is that? They forgave him. Jessica, that is one of the most alpha moves I've ever heard. Hitting someone in the face with a fish. I didn't think it happened in real life. I have a video. How big was the fish? You're not enough of a fisherman for my liking. You have insulted my entire boating community and my outdoor sensibilities. How

about a slimy fish across your face. A challenge of a duel. I have rarely heard a disrespect larger than hitting someone in the face with a fish that you're still holding.

You don't even throw it at him. Which is more insulting? Put this on the poll as well, Juju, at Levitard Show. More insulting, slapping someone across the face with your hand or slapping someone across the face with a flounder? Let's just state the obvious. If Lehman's dad did this to me, he would not be making it home from the fishing trip. I mean, I don't think he would do it to you. I think I could accuse. I'm a real alpha. I could arrest him for assault.

And he would run the prison being in there as someone who slapped a friend of a son with a fish in the face. What was it in International Waters? Maritime law. Anything goes. Assault life. You have the prisoners in jail saying, hey, did you hear about this guy? How he got in here? Oh.

I have Lehman's father running the entire yard because the rumor has circulated that guy's in here for taking out his son's friend by hitting him in the face with a wet fish. Do you know how unpleasant that is for someone who doesn't want to bait a hook? Well, you also have to be careful which fish, right? Because some of the fish are like, yeah, a scalium can cut you. That will cut you.

terrible i've been hit with a fish yeah accidentally not slapped with one but like a fish has flown off um out of the water and and hit me on a boat it's not pleasant greg did you make a spatchcock chicken yesterday i did how did that come out wonderful it was perfect it was the perfect size for my air fryer wait a minute

Yeah. Izzy. Thank you. Izzy. Thank you. I mean, Izzy. You can't turn the conversation that was that recently with Greg on a boat being hit in the face by a fish. Fish to chicken. It's a natural transition. A fish that jumped out of the water. That wasn't true. He was stuck in midair. I think it was a barracuda, but a very small one. You were not hit in the face by a barracuda. It was like a needlefish or something. Oh, the needlefish. You were not hit in the face.

the face by a flying barracuda. It might have been a black shark, but very, very small. I don't mean to over-dramatize it.

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Don Levitard. I heard that as a woman faking pain. I didn't think that sounded real. I really didn't. You know, it was not fake. It was in no way fake. You can spot a woman faking it. Stugatz. Yes, I can, Jess. Expert. I've been married 40 years. This is the Don Levitard Show with the Stugatz.

That's right. It's time for Against the Sprats.

And it's brought to you by our friends at DraftKings. Stay tuned because you'll hear about all that DraftKings has to offer throughout the show. DraftKings, the crown is yours. Lucy, kick us off. All right, this weekend I am taking Oregon minus 14.5 against Wisconsin. I know that Dan Lanning likes to do funky stuff when he's playing teams that aren't necessarily the best teams you've ever seen.

Wisconsin's a bad football team. Iowa scored 40 points on Wisconsin. Iowa scored 40 points on Wisconsin. That's impossible. I know. It feels wrong. It happened. So I feel very confident in Oregon. Minus 14 and a half this week. Against the spread. Izzy, what do you got?

I am super excited about my Against the Spread. Last time I did it Against the Spread, it was back when the Indiana Fever were still in the playoffs. It was the Fever plus six and a half, and I got that right. They only lost by six. And this one, Dan, the NBA Cup is back tonight, baby. We got the Mavericks and Warriors out in Golden State. That's Clay's return game. They're all going to be wearing little captain's hats because he's Captain Clay. Did you know that? Nobody knew that, really. That's weird. But I'm going to go with Heat Pistons, right? The Heat and Pistons in their first NBA Cup game. The Heat.

I'm gonna pick...

The Buffalo Bills minus two and a half at the Kansas City Chiefs. Or no, hosting the Kansas City Chiefs. A lot of people are saying, hey, the Chiefs are undefeated. They've been blowing everybody out. No, they haven't. It turns out last game, they almost lost on a field goal by the Broncos. And then the Chiefs in the last minute blocked it. So I think that there's going to be an upset here, even though they're favored. I'm going to take the Bills minus two and a half over the Kansas City Chiefs. Putting to an end.

the undefeated season, and Mercury Morrison Co. can celebrate that they will still have the only undefeated season in the NFL against the spread. Your timing was impeccable there with everybody working with the group to make music and punctuation on that segment as only you can, Billy. That was my fault? I mean, if I'm the lead singer, the band has to be playing to my tune. Mm-hmm.

I'm okay. So I would be arguing that they were not keeping up with my pace. Also, Mercury Morris no longer with us. That's fine. You can celebrate in heaven. Who made you the lead singer? Well, I mean, okay. We could bring him back like Bobby Knight. Perfectville. Population one. That's what Mercury always used to say. And they eventually made a sign out of it. Like a, you know, welcomed up.

Perfectville sign. Population one. Brilliant. A guy also got a tattoo that said undefeated, unforgotten on his belly. Really? Yeah. It was a whole thing. Picture. Big belly he had. A lot of letters.

Never take that away from them. Yeah. Who's trying? I love it when athletes say, they can never take that away from me. People aren't trying to take that away from you. Any athlete who's ever said that, you're paranoid. Yeah. They can't take that away from us. You can have it. Yeah. Right. I mean, Stu Gatz has taken two championships from Kevin Durant. They're probably referring to Stu Gatz in his personal record book, which I can't wait to get my hands on. Well, thank you, Greg. StuGatzBook.com right now if you want a pre-order. Uh,

I think it comes out in about 15 days. The books are doing very well around here. I have a couple of funny stories for you guys from Greg Cody earlier in the show. Right before the show started, as is his want, he was complaining about an assortment of things. I asked him how the book was doing. He said it was doing very, very well. And then he looks at me and he says, and I'm sure you're getting a substantive cut.

And I look at him and I'm like, I don't think I've not gotten a dollar. I don't expect to get a dollar from the sales of your book. And he's like, no, you've got a big deal with Mango Publishing. And I'm like, oh, okay. Let me call my COO now and ask him.

And so I asked him, and of course he says, no, not one single dollar. And then your father complains. He's like, tell him to pay me. Where's my check? And so I say, Bimmel, where is Greg Cody's check? And Bimmel asks the question that is a real neutralizer. Has he invoiced me?

And then the answer is, of course, no. So Greg Cody's expecting to be paid for something he hasn't asked to be paid for and is complaining about not being paid when he hasn't told anybody that he hasn't been paid. What is this, 1965? Who does invoices? Right. When I had a conversation with Bimmel, I'm like, cut me four checks a year. Pay me quarterly. Mm.

I'm not invoicing. Oh, I was in Monday and Tuesday this week. Let me invoice that. Where's my mimeograph paper so I can invoice something and send it to Bimble? It's a trick because he knows you're not going to invoice him. Right. Because who does that? Who does that? So it's like kicking the can down the road. I'm not even certain the invoice would help. I mean...

I don't know how to invoice. Where do you buy a piece of paper that says invoice on it? I hate to defend this, Greg, but it is standard practice for contractors and media to send invoices. Is that right? With a 30-day deadline for payment. Better get on that. You just make it in Google Docs and you write invoice on the top in big font and then in little font.

You put your name and your address, and then you say pay to, and then you put Metal Ark's address underneath that, and then you put the amount and the rate and then the total and then the date and then an invoice. I don't do all that.

It's really easy. I can help you. And he knows you won't. I have not filed for mileage at the Miami Herald in 40 years because it's not worth it to me to do all that paperwork and cut through all that red tape so that I can get a check for 30 bucks. You'd pay for all your flights? No, he said mileage, driving mileage. Driving mileage. You know, theoretically, when I go to a dolphin game, I could put in for mileage. Who cares?

That's a lot of money, actually. Yes. But it's not worth my time to do an invoice. He oozes privilege in ways he just doesn't even understand. Like, he speaks that so effortlessly. I should get money because you guys should pay me and I shouldn't.

by any of whatever the rules are to what payment is. I don't need your money in any way. I just want to complain about not getting money. But why should Greg have to add up the miles? Just trust him. He's Greg Cody. When he tells you the amount of miles and how much gas and how much money he's owed, just trust him. Because you exist. That's why. Listen, I didn't even know we had mileage. We could do that? Yes, you can. And I can show you how to do it. Oh, really? I do it every single week. All right. Greg, what would be the amount that you'd be like, okay, this is worth my time?

Well, if I were flying somewhere. No, with your mileage and driving the amount. My guess is that you have no idea how much money you're leaving on the table. I'm guessing if we added up what your mileage could have been for the last 40 years, you will be shocked by what that number is. Let's keep the Herald in business, though. Let's not start filing for mileage now. But Greg doesn't see it that way. He sees it as $22 at a time, and it's a lot of work for $22. That's all he's saying.

I should ask for a retroactive mileage and put in an invoice for about $19,000. I'm about to do it. You should bankrupt McClatchy. It wouldn't be a big reach. By just sending your mileage for the last 40 years. You should have an attorney. One invoice. Just one itemized.

invoice for the last 40 years that finishes off McClatchy. I imagine the budget meetings and McClatchy's like, why do we have this surplus? And they look, wow, Greg Cody doing us an amazing favor, never put in mileage once. I know. Believe me, if they ever threaten to fire me, I'm going to say, do you realize how much money I've saved this company over the last 40 years? It's going to get you nowhere. Zero. Yeah.

They don't give a shit. Are you their longest standing employee? Do you know? Currently I am, I'm sure. Wow. He's sitting. I mean, I'm not sure, but I'm guessing. I haven't really stopped to figure it out. There may be somebody who...

Isn't a writer who works background who may be there longer than me? I don't know. Do we still have press rooms? Somebody putting the paper to bed? That kind of guy? Or woman? I don't even know. Wouldn't you have the answers? You would have the answers to these questions.

He really is just ruminating. He's just talking it out. How does my newspaper get put out? I don't know. The industry is failing. I'm just floating around on a sea of garbage for the rest of my life as journalism dies. So you cooked the chicken yesterday. It was wonderful. Thank you. And I wouldn't brag about it. I would be honest. If it were terrible, I would say so. I was worried that the skin wasn't going to get crisped up.

because it was marinated in like a lemon rosemary sauce. But your oven's broken, right? That's why you had to go with the air fryer. You were nervous about that. I went with the air fryer, and I was prepared to crisp it up in one of these old-timey Ron Popeil rotisserie mini ovens, which I have and haven't used for like 40 years. I assume it still works. But the air fryer did the trick.

Okay, I've only been using an air fryer the last couple of years. It's the best thing that's ever happened. It's a pretty great invention. Yeah, it's wonderful.

I love that you just sort of discovered it here, though, recently, right? Within the past couple of years. And you're hard to get to learn anything, to change, to grow. You know what you know. You're comfortable in what you know. You don't need to know anything else. So you embarking on an air fryer is a big step for you, is it not? You probably fought the urge to learn for a long time there. You're learning allergic. Right.

No, that's probably a fair comment. You know, I adopt new things cautiously. Reluctantly, reluctantly. Okay, but when I approve of something new, it has the gold seal.

You know what I mean? Another example is I've just recently purchased a digital scale. Really? You gold-chilled it? I no longer have to look at a needle, you know, go between numbers. Now it tells me down to the two-tenths of an inch. So I know whether I weigh 191.4 ounces. Of a pound, yeah. Yeah, whatever. And...

But shouldn't they make it down to the one-tenth? Well, it sounds like you got a good one. Mine's just a one-tenth. Two-tenths, that's incredible. Depends what you need to measure and weigh. Yeah.

You don't like to get on that scale when you're me, I'll tell you that. Oh, yeah. Not after a rotisserie chicken. But the scale itself is great. Right. Golden seal. Spatchcock chicken. Yeah, as is the spatchcock chicken in an air fryer. Does your scale have the thing where it's like programmed person one, person two, so you can keep track? Because I always forget. Am I person one or person two? Yeah, not to my knowledge. And then I go and I'm like, I gained 87 pounds. That's insane. Yeah.

Wasn't me. That's above my pay grade. I use the scale to, like, I had a propane tank filled the other day for my griddle. And I wanted to weigh my two propane tanks to see which was the lighter because to the hand, they both felt exactly the same. So I weighed them both on my digital scale.

They were exactly the same. They both weighed 23.2 ounces. Wow. What a payoff to the story. Amazing. The Fireworks Show concludes with the punctuation you were expecting. The golden seal. Amazing. The golden seal.

The Dan Levitard Show with Stu Gatz is sponsored by BetterHelp. From the bottom of my heart, thank all the faithful listeners day in and day out of the Levitard Show. Some of you have stuck around with us for 20 years. Some of you have just gotten here and starting to get into the tent. We appreciate every single one of you listeners because you make this happen every day. Whether it's been 20 years or a few months, thank you. And this month is all about gratitude. And along with the group, I just shouted out there, there's another person we don't get to thank enough. Ourselves.

It's sometimes hard to remind ourselves that we're trying our best to make sense of everything in this crazy world. That isn't easy. Here's a reminder to send some thanks to the people in your life, including yourself. If you're thinking of starting therapy, give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suited to your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire and you'll be ready to start.

to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists at any time for no additional charge. Let the gratitude flow with BetterHelp. Visit betterhelp.com slash DLB today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash DLB. Thanks, guys. Did you know Nationwide is so much more than a great insurance company? They're one of America's largest financial services companies. Like how I'm more than just quarterback Peyton Manning, I'm also Meditate Manning.

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Don Levitard. Quiet man. Yes. You know, I'm a married man. I don't cheat on my wife, despite that gratuitous line back in my day. Stugatz. I wish you were here, my wife. I really miss her. No, I don't. That's the thing about being married. You know, you're not allowed to say, I don't miss my wife. I've been gone two days. I haven't been gone long enough to miss my wife. I'm sorry. I call her.

I'm on the phone with her for 30 seconds. You know, what am I? Hello. All right. All right. We'll see you. All right. And then, you know, I'm going to see her in two days. I was jumping Charlie. Good. This is the Don Labrador show with the Stugats.

Cody, it's taken us weeks to get to this subject matter with Ron McGill. I have failed. So go ahead and set up the question that we've had for him for weeks to get an answer that I'm not contaminating the jury pool on. Go ahead and just tell Ron McGill what your theory is, and let's see if we can get an answer from him that agrees with you. Yeah, Ron, I don't know that this is quantifiable or can be proven or disproven, but I have a supposition that

When horses are riding in a horse trailer on a highway going 60 miles an hour, that they enjoy the ride, that they not only tolerate it and it doesn't stress them, but that they enjoy it. My anecdotal evidence is sometimes the horse trailer allows you to see the head of the horse, and I always see a relaxed animal in there. I never sense any stress, any agitation. What's your thought on that?

Oh, it depends on the horse. I mean, it's just like people. Some people, you know, are afraid to go on roller coasters. Some people love going on roller coasters. Horses generally that are used to being trailered know it's safe. And like a dog putting his face in the breeze with the air blowing through and, you know, being kind of enriched by the surrounding environment, the changing environment, it's somewhat safe.

positively stimulating for certainly for some horses they tend to enjoy it but i think other horses um you know would get panicked with it i mean it's again as individual as people it's just the ability of a person to help train their horse to trust the trailer and understand there's no no threat there yeah i'll take that as a win thank you ron by a percentage uh majority minority of horses uh

if you had to argue on one behalf or the other, which Aston answered. Aston answered is what you just said to me? The majority of horses enjoy that or don't enjoy that? Well, I would say that if you went out

a herd of horses and tried to trailer them that had never been trailered before, the majority overwhelmingly would not like it. That being said, if you've got a horse that you have trained and you've gotten to trust a trailer, a horse that is moving all the time from show to show or whatever, those horses can enjoy such a thing. Again, it's all the individual organizations

all the type of training the animal's been given. Generally speaking, the horses you see on trailers that are calm, looking out the slats of the trailer, are pretty much enjoying or just very relaxed in the trailer. If a horse is not relaxed, you would know it. So when you see a horse relaxed that way, it's doing pretty well. Ron, it sounds kind of like this is like humans that are afraid of flying, right? Like they're afraid of it because they've never done it before. But the more they fly, the more they get comfortable, the more they almost enjoy it. So it's almost like we should be putting all

horses in trailers and driving them around and then they'll all enjoy it theoretically correct well no theoretically because my wife's been flying for 50 years and she still hates it and can't stand it and still very uncomfortable flying a horse to water you know

Yeah, exactly. It's all about the individual. There are certainly some horses that will never like to be in a trailer. And there are others that really do like it. You know, when you train your dog, for instance, you'll use a sky kennel in your home to kind of house train your dog, right? The dog learns that, okay, this is my house kennel. This is where I find my security. There are dogs that actually love to sleep in their kennels.

as opposed to having the whole run of the house. That's where they find their security. You can do the same thing with a trailer with a horse, making the horse understand, listen, this is your safe space. You're going to be good in here and enjoy the scenery as we ride. Enjoy the breeze in your face. There are other horses that are going to say, I don't believe you. I'm never going to believe you. I'm going to be totally panicked the whole way. And those are horses that don't go in trailers.

uh Ron there's this a very popular guy on YouTube who uh does like manicures and pedicures for cows and horses like with their hooves I'm wondering if you've seen those videos and if that is a sort of thing that is is common that there's just people that for a living they they treat wounded uh cow hooves and like spray them with salicylic acid and wrap them up all the time well hoof stock

hoof training and trimming and cleansing. That is very important, very popular. It's very important for their health. We do that here at the zoo with everything from giraffes to elephants. They get

pedicures, manicures, whatever you want to call them. So that hoof care is very, very important. Horses, you know, that's a profession. Being a good farrier, you have good farriers and you have bad farriers. If you don't treat those feet the right way, that can lead to a type of ailment that actually can create the animal to be lame and eventually actually lead to its death. So hoof care is very, very important. Now, this guy may be dressing up for YouTube, you know, put a little polish on there, making it look a little foo-foo and this and that. But the core of the care is very important.

Ron, I've seen a thing called freeze branding as opposed to regular branding for horses and cattle and stuff like that. Is that new? And also, is that more humane than regular branding?

Listen, branding, whether it's freezing or heat, it's a painful process. But having said that, you know, so is tattooing. And some people love that. So I don't know what to say in that matter. I mean, when people get tattoos, it's their choice. I think when you're branding an animal, it's certainly not its choice. And it doesn't understand what the branding's for. I'm not a big fan of branding. More than that, I prefer, you know, maybe an ear tag, which is quick and boom and there. But branding...

And I understand the reason for it. I understand out in big herds, out in big plains and stuff, it's much easier to identify property that way. I'm just not a fan of it. I've seen it happen. I've seen it done. And it's not pleasant by any stretch of the imagination. Ron, one of the things about animal care that fascinates me is, and isn't talked about much, is animal dentistry. How big a part of your animal care is that at your zoo?

Huge. It's absolutely huge. People who don't think dentistry is important for their dogs and their cats, you could be cutting, shaving years off the life of your animal.

Dental care is absolutely critical to the overall general health of an animal, any animal. Whenever we immobilize everything from tigers to zebras here, the zebras will float their teeth much like you'll float. Literally, it's like a file to float their teeth to make sure they're meeting properly so the animal can masticate its food properly. Tigers and carnivores, we're constantly removing the tartar from them and primates, things like that, because the same types of infections can take place in the mouths of these animals as can take place in people.

And you know what happens to people who don't take care of their teeth? Dental care. That can lead to all kinds of secondary issues that can become really critical. Do you believe that the horses enjoy horse racing? That's a tough question. I do believe that horses will instinctively run against each other. You know, I used to not race my horse, but I would ride my horse. And when I had friends of mine with their horses and we'd go out on a big airstrip, man, when those horses start running, I didn't have to go...

I mean, I just let him go. And once the other one, they raced each other. And there seemed to be a challenge that way. Having said that, horse racing in and of itself, you know, it's

What goes beyond the closed doors of the barn and what they do with these horses, I'm just not a fan. I'm not a fan. I just think that the horse— We didn't ask if you're a fan. We asked whether or not the horse is a joy or not. Not personal opinion here. Yeah, exactly right. Sounds like some do. Don't need your politics involved. Wow. What was your horse's name? Ha ha ha!

My horse's name was Tampico. Tampico. I like it. That was my horse's name. Let's have Greg ask that question, okay, and see if he gets a different response from Ron, because I believe he might. How do you spell that horse's name? What does that horse's name mean? Tampico is a little town in Mexico where his parents were born. Okay. Okay.

T-A-M-P-I-C-O. Ron, I was making... You may not even know, I'm a fractional owner of a racehorse named Comley, and

There are good trainers and bad trainers. There are mistreated horses out there for sure. My racing syndicate, I think, has really high marks for horse care. I was making the argument that if you're a thoroughbred racehorse. A racing syndicate. When I just think of a racing syndicate, I don't think of great care. Once you throw in the phrase syndicate, I just don't think of care. And the way you said it is if you've had a lot of experience with other syndicates. You went to one syndicate.

You've seen one syndicate. Well, I get an insider's bulletin twice a week. Email, they don't put all the bad stuff they do. That details all of the progress they're making in animal care and the way that they're at the head of the industry on that, believe it or don't. But my question to Ron is, I think a thoroughbred racehorse...

is well taken care of. I think these are some of the most cared for animals around. I don't think, you know, they're mistreated. And I'm wondering if you agree with that or don't.

I don't think they're mistreated. Unfortunately, like you say, there are some areas where they can be. My big concern with thoroughbred horses is when they're no longer winning races and they can no longer race, what happens to them? And that's something that I think a lot of the people who have investigated this have found things that have been not so...

happy, let's say. My sister's horse, his name was Titan. He was a racing horse. And if my sister had not gotten that horse, he was on his way to the glue factory. That's something that bothered me. At the end of the day, Greg, I think the problem is, as it is with so many things, money.

You know, if this horse is making you money and he's producing for you, boy, you're not going to hold back on investing to keep that money flowing. But as soon as that stops, what happens to that horse? Now, again, I went to school at UF up in Gainesville. I was in Ocala quite a bit. That's horse country here in Florida. I saw people caring for retired horses there in incredible ways. Some of those Ocala ranches and farms are phenomenal what they invest in their horses. So I don't want to paint with a...

with a broad brush here. But I just think when you start getting into the amount of money that's involved in these racehorses, I just, I would like to see that amount of money invested in them throughout their lives and not just when they can produce for you. That's fair.

Ron, we've talked about live mascots before, but I'm wondering if you saw what happened this past week. Oh, that LSU shit. I cannot... Oh, sorry. I cannot believe it. Don't be sorry. Go ahead. No, please. It made me very angry and sad also. So what was your reaction? It's just I couldn't believe they did that again. I mean, this is like...

God bless America. They had stopped doing that because they finally listened to people saying, listen, you should not be putting a tiger in a cage in the middle of a football field with tens of thousands of people on it. It's just a horrific thought to do that. And they do this again. And I'm...

Listen, I was sickened by it. To be honest with you, I was really ticked off, really ticked off to see that happen again. And I'm sure they're getting such a rash of crap right now that they won't do it again. Can you explain to us, for those who do not understand how it is that you might humanize a tiger, how disorienting that particular environment would be to something as finicky as, you know, the feline kingdom?

This is a solitary animal that depends on elusiveness, on being able to stalk, being able to kind of be invisible. And now all of a sudden you're putting it in a cage where it has no escape to get away from anything. A tiny little cage surrounded by tens of thousands of people with all these bright lights and flashes and music and screaming and all that stuff. Look, let me just put this in perspective. Why don't you take a child?

take a child and isolate that child, never having exposed them to this type of thing, and put them in a cage and have all these screaming people, all these lights and stuff going on, and think of what would happen. Think of what would happen. It's just not natural. It's the wrong thing to do, man. You know, this urge we have to always set the bar for more likes and more clicks and more social media reaction is at the detriment of living things, and that shouldn't be. You know, to me,

I know this is going to rile some people, but social media to me is the toilet bowl of the internet. For whatever good it does, I can find 20 things that are worse than it does. And it saddens me. It really saddens me to see something like as majestic, as beautiful as a tiger subjected to that kind of exposure, that exploitation for the sake of wiles at a football game.

I don't think that social media is responsible for putting that tiger on the field. And I'm with Chris Cody, who's been arguing all week that we should take Brian Kelly and just put him in the Serengeti and see how that goes. In a cage. In a cage, of course. Maybe not. Maybe not in a cage. He'd feel safer in a cage than not in a cage. I'd put him in a cage.

and not a cage and let him just wander around out there. I don't think people necessarily understand how skittish the tiger is though, Ron. Like when you're talking about the lights and the music, uh, the tiger, I think we assign strengths to the tiger that don't really understand its personality very well. Exactly. You're exactly right. Uh,

You know, this tiger is stressed. I guarantee you he's stressed just because he's not, you know, flailing against the bars and screaming. This is an internalized stress. I can promise you that tiger felt stress going out there and experiencing all of those, you know, stimulations around it.

That's just not natural for an animal like that. And to me, it's inhumane. I got to tell you, though, Ron, I'm shocked that your tiger take is what it is. But horses, no problem. Eighty five miles an hour down the highway. Just flying down the highway. That's the way I heard it. I mean, you're talking about a domestic animal that has been born and raised and acclimated to a certain situation for transport. OK, great.

You're not exploiting that animal. You're transporting it safely because you have trained it properly to go from point A to point B. You're not taking an animal against its will and putting it into a cage and exposing it to all kinds of stimulation that is nothing but stressful to that animal.

I can guarantee you that if the horse was bucking and going crazy in the trailer, they would not have put it in the trailer and moved it out because it would end up killing itself. Okay. So these horses that you see trailed have been trained. There's a big distinction between a domestic animal and a wild animal. Okay. When you put your dog in the car, a horse is a domestic animal. It's an animal that's been domesticated over hundreds, if not thousands of years. This is not the same as a tiger.

A beautiful horse blanket. That's the thing about that. The horses travel with beautiful blankets on their back. Am I wrong, Ron? They do. I don't know if that makes it any better for them traveling. Oh, a blanket makes everything better. Of course, you cuddle up with a blanket. Yeah, Ron, what kind of fool are you? How do you not understand that a blanket makes everything better? See you later, Ron. Good talking to you. Fool. You fool. Slice of heaven, guys. Slice of heaven, guys. Have a good week.

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