S1 E9: Corruption
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Philadelphia, a mystery along the Cooper River after police pulled two cars out of the water and that's not all that they found this afternoon. Good evening. Pensauken police confirmed today that a third vehicle was recovered from the Cooper River in South Jersey. Now on the ground we see crime scene investigators sifting through the mud.

the debris and presumably now evidence. A corpse was found inside one of those cars. The identity of that person is pending DNA testing. The FBI is assisting in that investigation. I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is There and Gone South Street, Episode 9, Corruption. All that I know is I see you in my dreams. Reach out in the dark.

Just to note that the views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals participating. This podcast also contains subject matter which may not be suitable for everyone. Discretion is advised.

On an early Saturday morning in May 2024, my phone started blowing up. First came text messages from friends saying, did you see this? It was a link to an article about three cars being pulled from a river in Pensauken, New Jersey. Then came a flurry of other messages saying one of the vehicles pulled from the water was reported to contain a body. That morning, my colleague Ben picked me up and we headed to Jersey.

- Pensauken is absolutely within like the radius. It's 20 minutes from Danielle's apartment. It's just outside of Philadelphia, just over the Ben Franklin Bridge. - Ben and I were headed to the Cooper River, which flows into the Delaware River. If geography isn't your thing, the Delaware River actually divides New Jersey from Pennsylvania. And the river sits about four blocks from the bar where Danielle and Richard were last seen leaving. - It's just crazy that there's one body found in the car.

According to the article, the police were set up near a driving range near the Cooper River. "It's not secluded." "It's not secluded." By the time we arrived, TV news crews were on site along with a helicopter hovering overhead. At first glance, the spot wasn't exactly where I would imagine someone would dump a car. While crews pulled vehicles out of the river, there were people 100 feet away working on their golf swings.

Ben was on the phone with FBI agent Vito Rosselli, and I walked around the area. By that time, the search and rescue teams had parked their vehicles as a sort of shield, so we couldn't really see what was going on. When I got back to the car, I could tell from Ben's face that we hit another dead end. If I hear anything, if I get any updates from my buddy, I'll get you out. Sounds good. Appreciate it. And sure enough, none of the three vehicles pulled from the water belonged to Richard.

According to NBC News, the body found in one of those cars was later identified as a Jersey woman who had been missing since 2010. Don't get me wrong. We're both relieved for the family of that missing New Jersey woman, but it's a roller coaster of emotion. This whole experience was a reminder that on any given day, a discovery could be made that would turn this case on its head.

Anytime a car is found, Danielle and Richard's names will come up. It's all just a mindfuck. I can't even imagine how many times the families had to go through something like this. If you're listening and you're not in their shoes, you should feel grateful. That's journalist Steve Volk. He wrote about Danielle and Richard's disappearance. I would love some kind of peace for those families. To put to bed the what-ifs. The what-ifs in this case are endless.

What if they were in the wrong place at the wrong time? What if it was murder for hire? What if the car was crushed? What if the car was in the water? What if it was crushed then put in the water? There's no luck that created this. I don't see it. You have to have resources and connections to make a truck disappear. This was done seemingly professionally, but

And we don't know who, but there is at least one person out there who knows. Here's FBI agent Beto Rosselli. It's not going to get solved by forensics. This will get solved by somebody coming forward that had information, had certain keys that could tie this whole thing together. At least one person and quite possibly many, many other people know something.

Logic would indicate it's at least two people that are confronting the victims. And then you're going to have at least a third person controlling the two people. And then to dispose of Richard's 3,000-pound Dodge Dakota pickup? Generally, that would take two people, too. One person to drive the truck up there, another person to have a forklift to soft-crush the vehicle, right, and then put it somewhere where it's not going to be seen.

So that's going to be at least a couple of people just to get the truck crushed. If you start adding up the potential number of people involved in disposing the vehicle from start to finish, that's another two to four people minimum. And without any physical evidence, the only way Vito and the FBI are going to solve it is for someone to come forward and talk. I don't know how many people have direct knowledge, but these types of crimes are normally hard to keep quiet.

Several folks out there are going to know directly from the horse's mouth what happened. And also, there are a lot of people dead in this case that I wish I could go talk to. Vito never said who those people were, but I can think of two names right off the bat. Rob LaFleur and Robert Carey. LaFleur owned the junkyard believed to be where Richard's truck was crushed. And Robert Carey was the rumored hitman.

LaFleur died of an overdose in 2012. Carey took his own life in jail in 2010.

Journalist Steve Volk wrote extensively about Robert Carey in a 2014 article in Philadelphia Magazine. The police questioned him directly. You know, they didn't get anything from him is my understanding. Back in 2010, the Philadelphia Daily News had already named Robert Carey as the alleged hitman in Danielle and Richard's disappearance. I remember hearing about Robert Carey as somebody that would have been potentially available for hire.

He had a reputation for potentially being a hitman. It wasn't that big a deal to him to do this sort of work. So if somebody asked him for a favor or whatever, he'd be potentially available. If you remember, Robert Carey was accused of beating someone up so badly that he knocked out the victim's left eye. He was the roughest customer in one of the roughest neighborhoods, if not the roughest neighborhood in Philly. The neighborhood Steve's talking about is Fishtown.

Fishtown is a working class, blue collar part of Philly. The name comes from its early settlers who were mainly fishermen that lived in this tiny neighborhood along the Delaware River. Although it's gentrified quite a bit since 2005, it's always maintained a rough around the edges reputation. From my point of view, Fishtown was a rough, violent place. There's a long history of organized crime operating out of there.

Fishtown had families in it that would end you. Robert Carey actually owned property in Fishtown, and people in that neighborhood used to look at him almost like the godfather, where he was equally respected and feared. There's a segment of people who knew him who were perversely proud of what a fucking tough guy he was. And according to Steve's sources, Carey was the hitman who killed Danielle and Richard. In Fishtown, that case is closed. It's just taken as a given that he did it.

I remember that being like a real hope of investigators that like, so you're dealing with underworld types who take some kind of money for hire gig. And at some point, one of them is going to talk, maybe even to Bragg because guys like that end up in and out of jail. And there was some rewards being offered. At one point, that reward was $100,000. One of the most like sort of unlikely crazy things about this is that nobody's fucking talked to Bragg.

Nobody's bragged. Nobody's spoken about it. And here's the thing about Fishtown. There's a sort of unwritten rule about a code of silence. You've got families who've known each other for generations. They have formed these relationships and there's a lot of loyalties there. But like, Carrie's dead.

Six months after Robert Carey took his own life in jail, the police arrested 20 of Carey's associates. According to the Pennsylvania Attorney General, many of those arrested were allegedly involved in Robert Carey's prescription drug operation and lived in Fishtown. - Those people haven't even talked. - It's pretty clear why Vito said there were times in this investigation he wanted to beat his head against the wall. Robert Carey's been dead nearly 15 years and no one is talking.

We learned that lesson as well. The one person who would talk to us on the record about Robert Carey asked to remain anonymous. No one else would go on the record. Steve said he even got pushback when he was doing research for his article. I had asked around about him and I got some kind of email like warning me away. Like, don't ask around about him.

This is fucking Fishtown. We love that guy. He's dead. We don't speak ill of the fucking dead. So don't come around here with that.

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In the year leading up to his estranged wife's disappearance, Joe cheated on Danielle and left her for that other woman. As their marriage headed towards a divorce, Danielle started dating Richard Patron. Joe found out and didn't like it. He wanted to reconcile with Danielle. But Danielle wasn't ready to forgive and forget Joe's Super Bowl affair in 2004, and that he left Danielle to raise their 20-month-old by herself when he moved to Georgia.

In 2005, Joe told the Philadelphia Daily News that he even called Richard and told him to, quote, back off and, quote, get out of the picture until after their divorce. Shortly after the new year in 2005, Danielle ended things with Richard. Weeks passed, including the Valentine's Day holiday. And then Richard called Danielle and asked her to meet up on Saturday, February 19th, 2005. As you know, Danielle ultimately agreed, and they both vanished that night.

Law enforcement has never charged Joe. They've also never publicly cleared him. And that's what makes things so frustrating, even for Joe. One place where I sympathized with Joe is that he knows everybody's looking at him the whole time.

With so little information, journalist Steve Volk said law enforcement was forced to examine and re-examine what few facts they had. Whenever you're dealing with a case where you don't know in the end, so many different pieces of evidence could be turned over different ways and look either evidence for or against. And depending on how you view them, that's where things could look either good or bad for Joe. ♪

I mean, just look at the night Danielle and Richard vanished. His alibi was framed by the Patrons as alarmingly convenient that he happened to be with his stepdad police officer that night. That night, Joe was with his relatives, two who happened to be in law enforcement. And he stayed overnight in Toms River, New Jersey. Toms River is just about an hour drive from Danielle's condo.

So I could see why you could question Joe's alibi. And let's not forget, Joe admitted to listening to Danielle's voicemails. If you are going to put your Joe Imbo had nothing to do with his hat on and think in those terms, wow, is he fucked by the circumstances surrounding this.

Think about that. Imagine you're in the following scenario. Your wife vanished. And you have this mountain of circumstantial evidence that can be flipped to look either for or against you. Like Steve said in the last episode. God, that would be its own circle of fucking hell. And according to Joe, it was. When he was just 37 years old. He had a heart attack. He connected the heart attack to just the stress. And according to Steve's article.

All of it left Joe, quote, a bitter, bitter man. I don't think he hid from the idea that this whole thing had taken a toll on him. We had questions. We tried to sit with Joe. I spoke with him twice by phone, but he didn't want to be interviewed. Ben spoke to him a number of times and ultimately met with him face-to-face in South Carolina. In June 2024, the two had an off-the-record conversation at a small coffee shop outside of Charleston.

A few minutes after their meeting, Ben called me. Ben said he and Joe talked for around an hour and that his physical appearance reminded him of Kyle Chandler. Salt-and-pepper hair, the little bit of facial hair.

But outside of that, he felt like Joe was just an ordinary 52-year-old guy. The feeling is, you know, he is another person who lost someone in all of this and is still grieving and still wanting answers like the families do, right? Ben said talking with Joe was just like talking with most other people we've talked to for this podcast. So how do you feel about it? I'm struggling with the fact that he won't go on the record and talk with me.

Do you think he did this? Or was responsible for this? Ben took a deep sigh and took a long pause. You know, you're hopeful you're able to read them or get some sort of tell or indication that, oh, there's the smoking gun. But I'm not coming back to you with that moment, Trey.

You spend a lot of time reading about someone and about their life and about things that they've done. I think you can build both expectations and perceptions in your head. But sitting in front of him, he's just an ordinary guy.

Honestly, we weren't expecting to hear from Joe again. But on a Saturday afternoon in August 2024, almost two months after Joe and Ben met for coffee, Ben got a text message from Joe. I'll let Ben read it. Ben, this is the only thing I would like to contribute. If you choose to use it, please use it in its entirety and not edited portions of it. I would like to thank you and your team at iHeart for keeping the disappearance of Danielle and Richard in the news.

Hopefully someone in your listening audience will know something and come forward. The only thing I am guilty of is being a shitty husband and making some poor decisions. I live with the guilt of knowing I am the one who put Danielle in the position where she was out with Richard Patron that night. I've spent the last 20 years raising our son to become someone I know Danielle would be proud of. The last phone call I had with Danielle was the afternoon she disappeared. She asked me to go to the circus with her and our son.

Do you think I could wake up every morning and look at my son if I did anything to his mother? People who don't know me will have their doubts, and I can't change that. The only thing that matters to me is that Danielle's family knows I had nothing to do with this. At the beginning of this series, you heard how Danielle's brother John got a tip. Some psychic called my mother-in-law and said Danielle was dying in a boxcar.

under the Walt Whitman Bridge. So here I am scaling this fence at midnight with a flashlight looking in boxcars. That unsolicited lead from a psychic never led John to Danielle. But it did give me an idea. Like Steve said, we've turned over every scenario of possibilities in our head. I felt like Vito banging my head against a wall. I just wanted direction. I thought, what is there to lose? So...

I reached out to a medium. And I must preface this by saying, skeptic inside me debated whether we should even share this. But if this idea turned out to be a total waste of time, I would not be spending one second on what I'm about to share with you. I got in touch with Jonathan Mark, who isn't just your ordinary medium. Jonathan has been helping law enforcement like the NYPD and FBI for a few years now. I'm their last option and I'm never their first.

Jonathan's resume includes some high-profile cases, including the Long Island serial killer case. That's when the lead task force agent called me and he was like, you have 15 minutes, let me see what you got. Then from there, I got inundated with so many different law enforcement agencies to do these cases, like over a thousand cases from all over the world. People, I think, know me more from the Gabby Petito case.

Gabby Petito went missing while on a cross-country trip with her boyfriend in 2021. Her boyfriend later admitted to killing Petito. Although Jonathan worked with law enforcement on the case, he said he didn't necessarily solve anything. I just helped them go into a certain direction and they did their amazing law enforcement work and they put the pieces together. He even got tapped in to help with the case of the four Idaho students who were murdered, but was admittedly too freaked out by it all. So he turned it down.

Today, his waitlist contains roughly 10,000 names. You can hear more about that on his podcast called Connect with Jonathan Mark. Jonathan knew I wanted to meet about a project I was working on, but was given no other information. To his credit, he invited me and Ben to his home in New York. I should note, this was two months before the show launched, and I don't even think he knew where we were from.

I always tell people it's a blessing and a gift that I can do this and help people and use it in different avenues. It's a curse because you can't turn it off. You're talking about death and not just death. You're dealing with people's emotions that these don't have answers for. So it's really difficult and tough. I didn't know what to expect, but I didn't expect a warm and friendly lacrosse bro sporting a backwards hat and workout clothes. A normal guy from your average Long Island family.

except for his ability to speak to those who have crossed over. I was nervous. Ben was nervous. Jonathan was nervous. He mentioned that he typically reads family members and was unsure if we could reach anyone other than our loved ones. But then he jumped right in. So you're cool with like the intensity of stuff, right? Like that's what, okay. So you have two people that are coming through. Wow, this is kind of nuts.

They're showing my uncle. My uncle's name is Richard, but it's an R name. They're showing me my brother, and my brother's name is Daniel, but the female has a D-A name. I see they both had families, it seems. Like, by families, I mean, like, children with different partners. Jonathan stared at a blank wall that was to the right of us. He said he typically does this so he can focus and not see our reactions. Ben and I sat in complete silence and let him continue.

This has to be like a two decade or almost a two decade case because what's coming through to me is there's little to no movement. And by that, that doesn't mean that law enforcement's not doing their thing. There's just little to no evidence that continue. But what I am seeing is that there has been some shifts like recently, like in the last like six months, there's been some like shifts. Another thing too, there's a key component to their case that's linked to a car that's like gone too.

whether it's a car or a minivan or a truck or something. Like I said, I didn't know what to expect, but I definitely didn't expect Jonathan to be spot on. They're showing me the color black in a car. That's a key component of like an evidence, whether it's the color black or just like a car, but they're also showing me too that there's a body of water that is like a huge key factor in

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In May of 2024, we reached out to Jonathan Mark, a medium who has helped the FBI and NYPD. And he graciously agreed to talk with us. Just a minute or two into our session, Ben and I were speechless. Prior to this, Jonathan had never met me or my colleague Ben. In fact, he didn't know anything about the case or where we were from. And right off the bat, Jonathan had clearly identified Richard and Danielle. And then came someone else.

There's like a third person and they're putting music notes and stuff and they're just enjoying like reuniting and things like that. Who was a musician in their family? That was the first moment I got chills. We told Jonathan about Danielle's father and how he was a doo-wop singer. I didn't really know what to make of it all, but the idea of Danielle reuniting with her dad made me happy.

And then also to someone else, another family member, they keep pointing at me. My name's Jonathan, but it's John or something like the J-O name. They're pointing at me. I was assuming John, Danielle's brother. Who is Marge or Margaret? Marge, Margaret? We told him that Marge is Richard's mother. She's pretty ruthless with this. So like I give her a lot of credit and she's a freaking warrior from what I see.

The last time they were seen, from my perspective, is at a, whether it's a restaurant, a bar, a concert, something where drinking was involved. He's smiling, saying he had a few in his stomach, so he was happy. The he is Richard. It seems like before they passed, they knew of each other, because what they're showing to me is they feel complete and whole at this moment together, because they're saying it was a separation to come together. But she keeps saying there's a jealousy factor with someone.

Separation to come together again. It was a phrase Jonathan mentioned a few times. So can I ask you guys just like one question?

Ben shared that there was no physical evidence. It's kind of like you wipe your hands clean and there's no crumbs of where you ate anything.

And what they're also kind of sharing with me too with this is that there's a body of water that is like a huge key factor to this. So there's a body of water that's not too far away and

It's like a river or some type of stream or a large body of water, but it's not an ocean. It's 100% not an ocean. It's like you can swim in it, but it's probably not preferred to swim in it type of thing. Because what he keeps saying is, he's making a joke to me. He's saying it's like, now you see me and now you don't. It seems like they did look at a body of water, whether it's a river, a lake, a stream, a

They're in the wrong spot. Like they're searching in the wrong area, but it's not too far away from it. If that makes sense. It's kind of like if you're looking like upstream, but then there's a whole downstream that emerges into like a lake kind of, it's going to be very difficult to find from what he's saying. It's like pretty close to like a state line where it's 20, 30 minutes. That's not far from where this happened. You ever hear of a hit man or someone that's like a paid employee,

I guess is the best way. From what I see with this, when someone puts pen and paper in front of me, it typically means an orchestrated type of passing. There is a suspect that I think that they have. Is the suspect like in jail already for something? Or did they have like a rap sheet? Do you know? We weren't sure what to say. The person that came to my mind was Robert Carey, but we didn't share that with Jonathan.

like an orchestrated group of people that are not fantastic citizens of society that come together. That's what I see because I see it happened. And you can correct me if I'm wrong, like outside a bar, whether it's a bar, restaurant or something, they're making a joke. It's like wrong place, wrong time type of thing. It's like when you reconnect and you're just going to have dinner or drinks or something. And they're saying that like,

There's another R name that's associated with his passing or associated around him that seems fairly intense to me or like knows something a little bit more than anything. Everything that these horrible people did to them with their plan was executed pretty perfectly because they had eyes and ears everywhere. It's like the stars align for these really shitty people. Because it also seems like there was a friend or a couple that was with them or should have been with them that didn't come

Because they're circulating saying like, thank God no one else was like with them at that time. It's not like what I normally would see, I would say, because there's a lot of moving parts with these people. They had help from outside conglomerates as like a group to make sure each corner was covered and that the case was shoved, pushed down away for many, many, many years. Shining light on this case is going to be the best thing because it's going to expose not only the person who did it,

in the group who did it, but people that were involved in it that should be held accountable, but also shouldn't have positions that they're in or positions that they were in. My heart breaks for them. Like my heart breaks for them just because when you're battling up against very powerful, corrupt people, it's tough. What Richard is trying to explain to me is like any help is good help. And he's saying that

Anytime someone gets close, someone's hand gets like chopped, cut, like handcuffed, whatever, he's smiling saying like, F that, like let's go in all different corners. Like let's hit different spots that people weren't even originally thinking. It's the corruption side that is like the most important to them. The corruption will lead to the answer to their passing.

It's kind of like this person has this person's back who has this person's back. He's saying like there's dots that connect, but it always circles back to like a circle. And it's like everyone's kind of like protecting their circle is what he keeps saying. But I think anyone that's like investigating this case is up against. It's like a lot of times people don't want to turn on their own people. Like that's what I've learned. Like people don't want to turn on their own people. And he's saying like that's what will have to happen.

What I find so interesting is that he kept saying corruption. You tackle the corruption, everything else comes together. So for the skeptics out there who are like, you know, Jonathan did his diligence. It's never been reported on. It's something that's been coming up in our investigation.

This is not a part of the story that he would have come across on a Google search about this case to compile information to share with us. Right. And we hadn't even talked about everything that you had been independently researching and investigating until that very morning on the way to him. I think I had conducted three interviews leading into our trip on Friday up to Jonathan that first indicated

uncovered this idea that there was a larger corruption story that could be tied to Richard and Danielle's story. And just meeting with him validated a direction that we had already wanted to go in. I think we know where we need to spend our time. That's next time on There and Gone South Street.

If you have any information about the disappearance of Danielle Limbaugh and Richard Patron, please call the Citizens Crime Commission tip line at 215-546-8477. Or contact the There and Gone team at thereandgonepod at gmail.com. That's thereandgonepod at gmail.com.

We're grateful for your support. One way to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. And don't forget to rate and review There and Gone. Five-star reviews go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners. There and Gone is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts.

The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Ben Fetterman. It's hosted and written by me, Andrea Gunning, with additional reporting and writing by Ben Fetterman. The series is also written and produced by Todd Gans. Our associate producer is Kristen Melchiorri. Research by Mason Klinder, Anna Hamilton, and Bella Ricci. Our iHeart team is Allie Perry and Jessica Kreincheck. Audio editing and mixing by Matt Dalvecchio. Additional editing support from Nico Arruca and Tanner Robbins.

Therein Gone's theme and original compositions were composed by Oliver Baines and Dari McCauley of Noiser. Music library provided by Myb Music. And a special thanks to both the Patron and Etobre families. Your strength and willingness to share your stories have been invaluable to the making of this podcast. Thank you for allowing us to honor the memories of your loved ones and to help keep their stories alive.

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