S1 E3: Together or Not?
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Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, the host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I'm John Walczak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI.

In 2001, police say I killed my family and rigged my house to explode before escaping into the wilderness. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. Join me. I'm going down in the cave. As I track down clues. I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Hunting. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world. Robert Fisher. Do you recognize my voice? Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

Hey guys, I'm Andrea Gunning, host of There and Gone South Street. In this series, we follow the case of Richard Patron and Danielle Limbaugh, two people who went missing in Philadelphia nearly two decades ago and have never been found. Unlike most cases, there is not a single piece of physical evidence connected to this crime, but the FBI knows there was foul play.

I'm also excited to tell you that you can now get access to all episodes of There and Gone South Street 100% ad-free with an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Plus, you'll get access to other chart-topping true crime shows you love, like Betrayal, Creating a Con, The Story of BitCon, Paper Ghosts, Piked in Massacre, Mindscape,

Murder homes, unrestorable, the godmother, the girlfriends and more. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for I Heart True Crime Plus and subscribe today. He picked me and my mom up and said, I want to take you guys out to eat. We went to this little Italian restaurant in South Philly and he said, I'm being stalked. He's threatening me. He's messaging me. And it's to the point that I'm scared. And three weeks later,

Never seen my dad again. I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is There and Gone South Street, episode three, Together or Not. Just a note that the views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals participating.

This podcast also contains subject matter that may not be suitable for everyone. Discretion is advised. It's the evening of Sunday, February 20th, 2005. At this point, Danielle Imbo and Richard Patron hadn't been seen since just before 1145 the previous night. They were leaving a bar in South Philly and heading toward Richard's pickup truck, which was parked nearby.

Some 16 hours later, Danielle's brother John and his mother got together with the Patrons to try to make sense of where they may have gone. I went over to the Patron's house and everybody's in a panic. These two families were no strangers to one another. Richard's sister Christine has been good friends with Danielle since the 1980s. Christine was always at our house or Danielle was always at Christine's house. My family loved Christine.

And that friendship extended well beyond Danielle and Christine. Marge Patron and Danielle's mother were also close. Marge and my mother Felice met through the girls and they hit it off and they became really close friends as well. And, you know, the girls would go out to dinner with the mothers. It was nice. It really was. Danielle also had been casually dating Richard over the months leading up to their disappearance. And that evening, both families were focused on finding them.

Marge, Patron, and my mother were calling hospitals. Mr. Patron hopped in my truck and we just went to the city. The two drove to South Street, where Danielle and Richard were last seen leaving Abilene's bar. Then they headed to Richard's apartment in South Philly, which was just a couple miles from Abilene's. From there, they retraced every possible route from South Street to Danielle's condo, some 20 miles across the Delaware River into New Jersey.

We were up and down each bridge. The Ben Franklin, the Walt Whitman, the Betsy Ross, looking for the truck on the side of the road. Maybe they got into an accident and the truck was in a ditch or something. We just went to all the police stations in the city thinking maybe Richard was drinking and driving. And he got pulled over. Mr. Patron saying, and maybe they're in a holding cell until they see a judge on Monday. He was just coming up with all these things that could have happened. And the whole time I'm saying to myself, something's wrong.

That's not what happened. That night, there were no records of any John or Jane Does in the area hospitals. No reports of any cars ending up in the water. And there was no sign of anyone having been at Danielle's condo or Richard's apartment. I just can't even describe the feeling of a loved one being lost. There's emptiness. There's a million emotions running through.

It's like you're literally standing in the middle of a snow-covered field and there's not a footprint in any direction and you've got to figure out which way to go. Despite all the ground John and Rich covered that night, they didn't find any sign of Danielle, Richard, or Richard's truck. I mean, there's nothing. John remembers a lot of uncomfortable silence during that car ride. Listen, I think both of us knew

Something was seriously wrong. Neither one of us were comfortable saying it out loud. As the night wore on, John's thoughts and fears all bordered on worst case scenario. Did they get abducted at the vehicle? Did they get abducted at a convenience store? Did they get abducted at Richard's apartment? You try to think about it and wrap your brain around it, it just doesn't make sense. It does not make sense. It's like they literally vanished.

All of this made me think about what the FBI shared with me, that there was no activity on either of their phones or credit cards, no cameras that caught Danielle or Richard leaving South Street, or, as John told me, not a purse, a shoe, lipstick, or even a piece of hair left behind. ♪

As baffling as that was to the families and investigators, John told me one of the many burning questions in his mind was, why were Danielle and Richard together in the first place? I didn't know they were back together. Because here's the thing. A few weeks earlier, his sister and Richard decided to take a break from seeing each other.

And to make matters more complicated, Danielle's estranged husband Joe wanted her back. He didn't really start pressing her to get back together until she was finally starting to get her life together and was moving on. As we discovered in the last episode, a year before all of this happened, Joe cheated on Danielle and left her for another woman. He even moved down to Atlanta to be with her.

All of that threw Danielle into a tailspin. She wasn't that sparkling woman that I knew. You know, that person that walked into a room and lit the room up. She was just a shell of herself. Danielle went through all the stages of grief. Joe's affair was in February, and that was a dark time for her. But by the summer, she finally started to come out of her funk. Then, out of nowhere, Joe changed his mind.

Once he realized she was kind of getting over it and accepting that we're moving on, then he wanted his cake and to eat it too. The 180 was surprising. John didn't think it was so much Joe's idea as it was Joe's family. He was getting so much pressure and his family was really disappointed in what happened and in his actions. I think it was because of that he felt obligated to try to reconcile. Danielle was conflicted.

She and Joe had a son who wasn't even two years old yet. Should she prioritize herself or keep her family together for her son? All the progress she made over the summer evaporated in an instant. She would cry and be like, I'm so confused. I don't know what to do. Even the last time John spoke with his sister, Danielle, the topic of conversation was what to do about Joe.

We were on the phone my whole ride home from work. She had called me, she was crying, just so like torn and confused what to do. At that point, I told Danielle, "Look, I can't tell you what to do. I can only tell you whatever you do, I support you." And she said, "I feel like I should give him another chance for the baby's sake, but I know if I get back with him, you and mom aren't going to treat him the same." I said, "Danielle, listen, I probably will never look at him the same again, you're right, but I'll never ever make him or you feel uncomfortable."

I can promise you that I will do whatever you want and I'll do it with a smile on my face because I love you and you're my sister.

What John remembers today is that just before they ended their conversation, Danielle had a sort of "aha" moment. She had said, "I don't want to get back together with Joe. I just want to be alone. And I just want to figure it out and be a good mom." So you can imagine John's surprise when he found out that just 24 hours after Danielle said she didn't want to be with Joe, let alone anyone, she was out at a bar with Richard.

I know she told Richard, like, listen, I think we need to cool it. We need to, you know, not date or not go out. I want to be by myself. Next thing you know, he had called and they met up. That's what boggles my mind.

Obviously, this is something that goes on all the time. Two people are hanging out, they like each other, and then they need to go on a break. Maybe it's just for the night or longer. Maybe you hang out from time to time, feel it out. Relationships are complicated, not always linear. Whatever the case, it happens, right? Well, the difference with Danielle and Richard is that the same night they hang out after taking a break, they both vanish. And I'm not giving anything away here when I say...

they later would be presumed dead. So I want to spend this episode understanding why Danielle and Richard got together that night and why they were supposed to be apart because I can't help but think that that answer could begin to help me understand what happened to them that night.

Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Stories about regaining a sense of safety, a handle on reality after your entire world is flipped upside down.

From unbelievable romantic betrayals. The love that was so real for me was always just a game for him. To betrayals in your own family. When I think about my dad, oh, well, he is a sociopath. Financial betrayal. This is not even the part where he steals millions of dollars. And life or death deceptions. She's practicing how she's going to cry when the police calls her after they kill me.

Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm John Walzak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. I'm John Walzak.

In 2001, police say I killed my family. First mom, then the kids. And rigged my house to explode. In a quiet suburb. This is the Beverly Hills of the Valley. Before escaping into the wilderness. There was sleet and hail and snow coming down. They found my wife's SUV. Right on the reservation boundary. And my dog flew. All I could think of is him and the sniper me out of some tree.

But not me. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. For two years. They won't tell you anything. I've traveled the nation. I'm going down in the cave. Tracking down clues. They were thinking that I picked him up and took him somewhere. If you keep asking me this, I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Searching for Robert Fisher. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world.

Do you recognize my voice? Join an exploding house, the hunt, family annihilation today, and a disappearing act. Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

- Hey guys, I'm Andrea Gunning, host of "There and Gone South Street." In this series, we follow the case of Richard Patron and Danielle Limbaugh, two people who went missing in Philadelphia nearly two decades ago and have never been found. Unlike most cases, there is not a single piece of physical evidence connected to this crime, but the FBI knows there was foul play.

I'm also excited to tell you that you can now get access to all episodes of There and Gone South Street 100% ad-free with an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Plus, you'll get access to other chart-topping true crime shows you love, like Betrayal, Creating a Con, The Story of BitCon, Paper Ghosts, Piked in Massacre, and more.

Murder homes, unrestorable, the godmother, the girlfriends, and more. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for iHeartTrue Crime Plus, and subscribe today. Richard's mother Marge told me she couldn't remember her son ever being in a serious relationship. She said by the time she got to know any of the girls, it would fizzle out. So she stopped getting attached. So I said, don't bring them. I don't want to get to know them. No.

I get to know them and then there'll be somebody else. Don't let me meet them. I know he would laugh. Like any mother, all she wanted was for her son to meet someone, fall in love and get married. But she didn't think Richard was headed down that path. I don't know that he would have ever really settled down. I think because a couple of his friends got married and they weren't real happy and things were not working out. And he kept saying, I'm not going to do that.

Maybe it was fate or just coincidence, but once Danielle's husband left her in 2004, Danielle started spending a lot of time with the Patrons. I know through the summer, she came to my house at the shore with her son and her mother. They stayed with us a couple times, Richard there, and that's when they started dating. How did you feel about the two of them ending up together? I loved Danielle. I always did.

Danielle was a familiar face to Marge. She was the best friend of Marge's daughter, Christine. The two had been friends since high school, and I got the impression that Marge secretly hoped Richard would end up with a girl like Danielle, or maybe even Danielle herself.

Unlike some of Richard's other girlfriends, Marge felt like Danielle was different. She seemed like a keeper.

They could stay in and have a pizza and a beer, and Richard was fine with that. And so was Danielle. She concentrated on raising her son, and he always concentrated on raising Ange, so they had that in common. By that time, Richard's daughter Ange had moved in with her mother, and Marge said Danielle's infant son fit right in. She would bring him here all the time. He would call me Mama because he would hear my grandchildren call me that. So he was adorable, you know, little Joe.

And Richard, he had the truck and when it would snow, he'd put them all in the back of the truck. I have pictures of them bouncing in the back of Richard's truck. We were thrilled. It's a tired mother's dream. I wanted to, of course, get him married. Danielle and Richard started hanging out in the summer. And by the fall, Danielle was joining Richard at family parties. Here is Richard's little sister, Elisa. Danielle and Richard gave me that as a gift together for my birthday. It was like a Tiffany's keychain.

And that was November. I was from the two of them. That New Year's Day, Richard's Aunt Linda remembers Danielle talking about ringing in the New Year with him. Danielle said, I had the best New Year's Eve of my life. And I said, really? Oh, what did you guys do? And she said, we danced at 12 o'clock. And then she said with no music. And they just kept smiling at each other. That's just what I remember.

Richard's daughter, Ange, said she quickly picked up on the fact that Danielle wasn't like all of Richard's other girlfriends. He just slowly started, you know, family outings and stuff. She would come along and they bonded over music. So they were always going to concerts and stuff like that.

I could tell that he was really having feelings for her. I was like, is this like a serious thing, dad? Like, are you dating? And he told me, yeah, like, I really, I really have feelings for her. I care about her a lot. Now, when I was little, you know, five, six, seven, if he had a girlfriend, forget it. I hated them. He wasn't allowed to have girlfriends. I was against everyone he had. But no, by the time Danielle came, I was like, good for you, dad, you know? Ang said...

things between Danielle and her dad eventually got more serious. He sat me down and said, listen, I really like Danielle. You know, things are progressing. We really enjoy spending time with each other. And she's my girlfriend. And I was happy for him. She was still going through a divorce. So they didn't rush things. They took their time. But things didn't last. And then, unfortunately, Danielle

Just a few weeks before they disappeared, Danielle and Richard called it quits.

They're just both like, hey, we're still going to be in each other's lives. Let's, you know, deal with our own personal things and then meet back up and see where it goes. According to Marge, it all had to do with timing. I think she was a couple weeks away from the divorce to be final, and she didn't want to push his buttons. So she kind of like stopped because her husband, I think he moved to Georgia, but then he came back. And Richard was fine with it.

I asked Danielle's brother John about Danielle ending things with Richard. She had gone on a few dates with Richard, and it was through the holidays around Christmas time. He wanted to be with Danielle. You could tell he loved her. That's for certain. And I know his family would have loved to have seen them together.

As John talked, his wife Jodi looked like she had something to say about Richard. So I asked her to pull up a chair. So not much was ever really said about him from her. And I was just like, are you going to bring him around? She's like, I'm taking it slow because I'm just starting to get things on track with Joe and with the mediation. She's like, I don't want to mess that up.

Jodi said she only met Richard twice. Both times, he was delivering a cake. That second meeting happened a day or so before Danielle broke things off with him. She ended it with him and said, like, right now, I don't want to be with anyone.

Jodi said she wanted to be clear. It wasn't that she didn't like Richard. She said she barely knew him. Whenever you listen to the news, it's always Danielle and her boyfriend, Richard Patron. They were not boyfriend and girlfriend. Were not. They didn't date enough and go out enough to be boyfriend and girlfriend.

The Patron family likes to portray them as this loving couple that were getting ready to get married and everything was, you know, peaches and cream. But the fact is they hadn't dated for months. All right, so just to make sure we're all on the same page here, Richard's family said Danielle and Richard were a couple, but Danielle's family said they weren't. All labels aside, we do know that they started seeing each other over the summer of 2004 and called things off around the end of January, early February. ♪

Danielle had made a conscious decision to move forward and just concentrate on her son. She wasn't getting back with Joe. She wasn't going to date Richard. She was going to just concentrate on her and her son. Richard's sister, Elisa, said her brother was laid back and understood Danielle's position. If you need a break, take your break, is how I think he would have taken it. And so did Richard's friend, Frank. He was okay with that, taking a break. Because I remember saying, well, that's all right. Then you see what happens. You know what I mean?

In Philadelphia, this case is often referred to as the missing couple. And while working on this, we quickly learned this was a hot button for Danielle and Richard's families. Were they or weren't they a couple? My colleague Ben and I discussed this a lot at length. There are a few things the families don't see eye to eye on, but this may be the biggest one.

The Ottobreys are steadfast in the fact that they were not a couple. They weren't boyfriend and girlfriend. And then the Patrones feel strongly that they were in a relationship. - I think back to Danielle's conversation with her brother, John, where as it related to Joe,

She opened up and said, if I take him back, are you ever going to even look at him the same way? Oh my God, so relatable. It's totally relatable. And it's a concern that we know is on her mind that her decisions, she's keenly aware, affect how her family is going to think about her. We know that Danielle had a lot going on in her life. She was a single mom. She was...

on the other side of grieving the loss of her marriage, right? So she's a few months out of understanding the fact that like this relationship is falling apart. My husband cheated on me. She's picking herself up by her bootstraps and getting over it and finally letting her hair down and have a little fun and being open to other opportunities. Then she meets Richard and he's

She's interested, right? Like, interested enough where they're going on dates. They're seeing each other. Were they a couple? Were they not a couple? I think we're avoiding that very big part in the middle of what probably is going on, which is it was a little gray. It was muddy. It wasn't clear. I know that details are important to every investigation. Like, hyper-specific details are really important. But there is something super distracting about...

all of the noise about whether they are or they are not a couple. I think they both really cared about each other. I think they both really like spending time. I think it was a matter of timing and I think that Danielle had a lot going on. I think Richard probably was a lot more emotionally available than Danielle was just by circumstance.

Single, open, and I think he was more than willing to give her space when she asked for it. Obviously, Danielle was more intertwined with Richard's life. Yes. I don't think that necessarily means that Danielle didn't care about Richard any less. I just think that she wasn't as ready or open. She's obviously really confused. And honestly, as a woman, that makes me feel for her because she's interested in

but also feeling a little bit held back. And then she's in the mix of this intense divorce. But it just makes me realize that we have so much to talk to Christine about because I feel like she's the one, like she's Richard's sister. She's Danielle's best friend. She knew what was happening between the two of them and was with Danielle the night that Richard called and they got together. So I feel like so much of this is going to be cleared up if we ever talk to Christine. Yeah.

Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind. Stories about regaining a sense of safety, a handle on reality after your entire world is flipped upside down.

From unbelievable romantic betrayals... The love that was so real for me was always just a game for him. To betrayals in your own family... When I think about my dad, oh, well, he is a sociopath. Financial betrayal...

This is not even the part where he steals millions of dollars. And life or death deceptions. She's practicing how she's going to cry when the police calls her after they kill me. Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm John Walzak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. Come on, Paul.

In 2001, police say I killed my family. First mom, then the kids. And rigged my house to explode. In a quiet suburb. This is the Beverly Hills of the Valley. Before escaping into the wilderness. There was sleet and hail and snow coming down. They found my wife's SUV. Right on the reservation boundary. And my dog flew. All I could think of is him and the sniper me out of some trees.

But not me. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. For two years. They won't tell you anything. I've traveled the nation. I'm going down in the cave. Tracking down clues. They were thinking that I picked him up and took him somewhere. If you keep asking me this, I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Searching for Robert Fisher. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world.

Do you recognize my voice? Join an exploding house, the hunt, family annihilation today, and a disappearing act. Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

- Hey guys, I'm Andrea Gunning, host of "There and Gone South Street." In this series, we follow the case of Richard Patron and Danielle Limbaugh, two people who went missing in Philadelphia nearly two decades ago and have never been found. Unlike most cases, there is not a single piece of physical evidence connected to this crime, but the FBI knows there was foul play.

I'm also excited to tell you that you can now get access to all episodes of There and Gone South Street 100% ad-free with an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Plus, you'll get access to other chart-topping true crime shows you love, like Betrayal, Creating a Con, The Story of BitCon, Paper Ghosts, Piked in Massacre, Murder,

We've heard a lot about the days and months leading up to Danielle and Richard's disappearance. Both victims' families agree that Danielle and Richard had been casually dating, but broke things off about three weeks before they both went missing. And then on Saturday, February 19th, 2005, the two met up.

My team tracked down a handful of people who could provide more details about that night, including someone who was at Abilene's with Danielle and Richard. It was definitely a full house in Abilene's that night. That's Anthony Valentino, a longtime friend of Richard's. I feel like I should mention Anthony is a man of few words. For a heavy metal guy, he's actually very sweet and soft-spoken. A couple times during our conversation, Anthony teared up while talking about Richard. I also noticed how nervous he was.

Like, visibly shaking. I mean, I talked to Rich a couple times during the day. I was like, hey, we're going up to Abilene's. Probably didn't even fall all together till like 7 or 8 o'clock at night or something like that. Anthony said it was the first time he and his wife, Michelle, had met Danielle. He said he liked her, you know. I remember, like, they were affectionate, like, you know, arm around each other or whatnot. I think I seen them maybe give a kiss to each other.

Anthony described that night as normal and didn't remember anything else noteworthy. He said the four of them just listened to the band and hung out. Michelle and Danielle, they were sitting at the bar. They had a seat. Like, it was crowded and a loud bar, so I know my wife was like, talk to her more. Anthony and Richard did a couple shots, and just before midnight, they were ready to leave.

We were going to go to see a band at another bar, and they were just like supposedly going back to her house. Danielle's condo was about 30 minutes from Abilene's in Mount Laurel, New Jersey. That's where Anthony believes Danielle and Richard planned to drive. And then we just said goodbye. Me and Rich hugged and he left, disappeared out the door into a crowded street.

Unfortunately, Anthony didn't see what direction Danielle and Richard headed, but he remembered hearing Richard brag about how he got a good parking spot that night. Once that door closed, I never saw him again. Christine Patrone was not only Richard's sister, but one of Danielle's best friends. The two had known each other since high school. Christine was the one who drove Danielle to meet Richard back on February 19, 2005.

When we first met the Patrons for Sunday dinner, the conversation kept coming back to, where is Christine? Because Christine never showed up. Did you ever talk to Christine? We just met her just on our initial meet and greet. Why? You can't talk about it. Why do you think that is? It's too hard? No. Well, what is it? I don't know. I'll get Christine to speak to you.

She's been reluctant to talk with us, but eventually agreed to a phone call with my colleague Ben. "Hello?" "Hi, is this Christine?" "Hi, yes it is." Christine told Ben that she had done so many interviews and wasn't really interested in doing another.

After some back and forth, Christine eventually agreed to talk with us on Zoom.

It was a long conversation, so I'll only play a few things that stood out. Christine said when Danielle moved to New York, they lost touch. But they reconnected right after Danielle married Joe. Later in her pregnancy is when I got the gist that things weren't great with her and Joe.

I remember like one conversation, it was at night and he wasn't home and like he wasn't answering his phone. And I thought, you're pregnant. Like, that was weird to me. I don't know if anybody even told you this, but her baby was maybe like a month old and he wanted to go on vacation. And Danielle was so upset. Like, I'm sure you want to sometimes, but you just don't.

Christine said Danielle was devastated when Joe left her for another woman, and a lot of her friends wondered why she even considered getting back with him. "No one understood why she even entertained the thought of being with him again, but I did. I think as a mom, you're thinking of your kid, so I understood." Christine couldn't remember when exactly Danielle started dating Richard, but she said she felt like there'd always been chemistry there.

When it came time to choosing between Joe and Richard, Christine said she didn't push Danielle one way or the other because she didn't want it to seem like she was favoring her brother.

Then I think there was a time where Danielle thought, I don't want to be with either of them. I need to get myself together. I want you to hear a different point of view from one of Danielle's other friends named Jeanette. Jeanette talked with Danielle the day before she disappeared. Danielle's emotions were all over the place from day to day. That's where she was. I think she was just trying to figure things out. What went through your mind when you learned Danielle went out with Richard?

It wasn't a planned event that she was going to meet Richard that night. And I know that for a fact. So I was surprised that she went out and even more surprised when she didn't come home. Jeanette said she had plans with Danielle that Saturday, but Danielle canceled. Danielle wanted to go to dinner with her mom and Christine. And we had a phone conversation because I was planning on going over there. Did Danielle ever talk to you about her relationship with Richard?

So that's a territory that I kind of want to keep private. But I'm going to leave you with this. I never believed or was told any different that they were a couple ever. Richard Petron was a shoulder and a friend. Christine has a different take. Ultimately, Christine believes Danielle wanted to be with her brother. I think in her heart, she wanted to be with him.

But I think it was a struggle. Take out the kids and the divorce, she would have been with him. There's a reason we're spending so much time on Danielle and Richard's relationship, because it will play into what happened next.

They dated pretty steadily for a few months. I know like that fall they were dating. I know Thanksgiving was when Joe was calling Richard at work. Like, so it was a good couple months. Wait, why was Joe calling Richard at work? It was like a busy day at the bakery and he kept calling and calling and calling. According to Marge, Joe wasn't calling Richard to place a bakery order.

Joe was threatening him with a baseball bat. Ange said she also knew about the threats Joe made to Richard. I would say it was probably about three weeks before he went missing. He said, he's threatening me, he's messaging me, and it's to the point that I'm scared. FBI agent Vito Rosselli was aware of the alleged phone call and threat. We did find in our investigation there were conversations between the two.

There was at least one explicit phone call exchange. There was reference to a threat made about a baseball bat. I don't know how much to put into that because the motions were high and when motions are high embellishments are made. That could have been an embellishment. It could have been just a misinterpretation of what somebody was told. But I did hear that, yes.

And then both Richard's baby's mom, Julie, and their daughter, Angela, they did mention that Richard said, you know, if anything happened to me, it was the husband, meaning Joe Wimbo. But in June of 2005, Joe denied threatening Richard. He told the Philadelphia Daily News that Richard was the one who threatened him.

We all thought that maybe it was going to lead to a confrontational, like maybe one day he's actually going to show up to the bakery. And then a few weeks after that, he's gone. That's next time on There and Gone.

If you have any information about the disappearance of Danielle Imbo and Richard Patron, please call the Citizens Crime Commission tip line at 215-546-8477. Or you can reach out to the show and our team by email at thereandgonepod at gmail.com. That's thereandgonepod at gmail.com. Thank you so much for listening. One way for you to show support is by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts.

Don't forget to rate and review because five-star reviews go a long way. A big thank you to all of our listeners. There and Gone is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass, Ben Fetterman, and me, Andrea Gunning. It's hosted and written by me, Andrea Gunning, with additional reporting and writing by Ben Fetterman. The series is also written and produced by Todd Gans.

Our associate producer is Kristen Melchiorri. Research by Mason Klinder, Anna Hamilton, and Bella Ricci. Our iHeart team is Allie Perry and Jessica Kreincheck. Audio editing and mixing by Matt DelVecchio. Additional editing support from Nico Arruca and Tanner Robbins. There and Gone's theme and original compositions were composed by Oliver Baines and Dari McCauley of Noiser. Music library provided by Myb Music. Special thanks to both the Patron and Entobre families.

For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, it's Andrea Gunning, the host of Betrayal. I'm excited to announce that the Betrayal podcast is expanding. We are going to be releasing episodes weekly, every Thursday. Each week, you'll hear brand new stories, firsthand accounts of shocking deception, broken trust, and the trail of destruction left behind.

Listen to Betrayal Weekly on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm John Walzak, host of the new podcast Missing in Arizona. And I'm Robert Fisher, one of the most wanted men in the world. We cloned his voice using AI. Come on.

In 2001, police say I killed my family and rigged my house to explode before escaping into the wilderness. Police believe he is alive and hiding somewhere. Join me. I'm going down in the cave. As I track down clues. I'm going to call the police and have you removed. Hunting. One of the most dangerous fugitives in the world. Robert Fisher. Do you recognize my voice? Listen to Missing in Arizona every Wednesday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your favorite shows.

Hey guys, I'm Andrea Gunning, host of There and Gone South Street. In this series, we follow the case of Richard Patron and Danielle Limbaugh, two people who went missing in Philadelphia nearly two decades ago and have never been found. Unlike most cases, there is not a single piece of physical evidence connected to this crime, but the FBI knows there was foul play.

I'm also excited to tell you that you can now get access to all episodes of There and Gone South Street 100% ad-free with an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription available exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Plus, you'll get access to other chart-topping true crime shows you love, like Betrayal, Creating a Con, The Story of BitCon, Paper Ghosts, Piked in Massacre, Murder,

Murder homes, unrestorable, the godmother, the girlfriends and more. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for I Heart True Crime Plus and subscribe today.