S1 E10: Saint Anthony
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This election season, the stakes are higher than ever. I think the choice is clear in this election. Join me, Charlemagne Tha God, for We The People, an audio town hall with Vice President Kamala Harris and you, live from Detroit, Michigan, exclusively on iHeartRadio. They'll tackle the tough questions, depressing issues, and the future of our nation. We may not see eye to eye on every issue, but America, we are not going back.

Don't miss this powerful conversation with Vice President Kamala Harris. Tomorrow at 5 p.m. Eastern, 2 p.m. Pacific on the free iHeartRadio app's Hip Hop Beat Station. I'm going deep undercover. It's hard to visualize you with hair. To expose the secret world of professional shoplifting. So you can make $1,000 a day shoplifting. Yeah. And I end up outside the mansion of the shoplifting queen herself. I hear the cops.

Do you think we should go? Listen to Queen of the Con Season 6, The California Girls, on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. It's been 30 years since the horror began. 911, what's your emergency? He said he was going to kill me. In the 1990s, the tourist town of Domino Beach became the hunting ground of a monster. We thought the murders had ended. But what if we were wrong? Come back to Domino Beach. I'll be waiting for you.

Listen to The Murder Years, Season 2, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. About a week after Danielle Embo and Richard Patron vanished, Danielle's mother was at home watching Danielle's infant son. It was a Sunday when I had little Joe here, and they had set that downstairs up. It was like a big, giant playroom.

With toys scattered all over, Little Joe was playing with his two cousins. It was all therapeutic for Felice, who sat on a nearby couch, desperately trying to keep her mind occupied. But then the voices of the children went silent. That's when Felice looked over and noticed Little Joe. And he kind of like stopped in the middle of them playing. And all of a sudden, Little Joe looked up and he whispered, Mommy.

Felice believes little Joe saw his mother that day. That was unreal. Just looked up and whispered, Mommy. I'm Andrea Gunning, and this is There and Gone South Street, Episode 10, St. Anthony. All that I know is I see you in my dreams. Reach out in the dark for you to be close to me. I'll never give up, no matter how long, to find.

Just to note that the views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals participating. This podcast also contains subject matter which may not be suitable for everyone. Discretion is advised. I'm going to pull back the curtain a little bit. When a colleague of mine first pitched doing a podcast about Danielle and Richard's mysterious disappearance, I knew it would be an uphill climb.

Number one, the case has gone unsolved for nearly 20 years. With all due respect, what could two Philly podcasters possibly do that the FBI and four other law enforcement agencies couldn't? At the very least, I'm proud to say that we've put the story back out there and in the process, rattled a few cages.

Number two, people want to walk away satisfied. So a story without an ending is usually a tough sell. Number three, there are a lot of things I wish I could have reported on. There are also a lot of people I wish you could have heard from. For legal reasons and a host of other reasons, we couldn't share a lot of stuff we uncovered. I'll explain more about that later in this episode. In episode nine, you heard from Jonathan Marks.

He's the medium who has helped on some high-profile cases with the NYPD and FBI. I will say that my colleague Ben and I wrestled with how to use the information Jonathan provided. We didn't know how Danielle and Richard's families would feel about it, and we knew there would be a lot of skeptical people who'd hear it and call it bullshit. And I completely get it. Thankfully, both families have kept an open mind.

As for the rest of you, I will say this. What drove us to seek out Jonathan was similar to something Danielle's brother John said earlier in this series. It's like you're literally standing in the middle of a snow-covered field and there's not a footprint in any direction and you've got to figure out which way to go. We needed direction. And even though Ben and I walked into the session with a bit of skepticism, that all evaporated once Jonathan started. This case must be going on for like 20 years or something.

It happened outside a bar. There's a car that's like gone too, whether it's a car or a minivan or a truck or something.

Jonathan even nailed some key details about what was happening in Danielle and Richard's lives at the time. They both have two separate families, like kids and everything, with other partners. Danielle was kind of alluding to like a jealousy factor that revolves around her. He even shared some phrases we've heard from our interviews with the FBI. It's like wrong place, wrong time type of thing. You ever hear of a hitman or someone that's like a paid killer?

Then Jonathan said the one word we had never come across in this investigation. The corruption will lead to the answer to their passing. 21 times during our session, Jonathan said the word corruption. And like typically when they repeat something over and over and over again, like that's where they want these people to like dive into first. Hearing that from Jonathan gave me and Ben a new and final direction to investigate.

And that's a big reason why we decided to share that audio with you. Corruption can mean a lot of things. It was an area Ben dug into, and it started at the junkyard.

We spent a lot of time talking about Gianna Salvage. If you remember back in 2005, Gianna's was the only junkyard in Philly with an industrial crusher. It's rumored to be where Richard's truck ended up. Although Gianna's closed years ago, Ben spent a good amount of time digging into its owner, Rob LaFleur. I came across this story trying to learn more about Rob LaFleur. But what Vito shared when we interviewed him was that Rob was dealing with

two other issues around the time of his death. He was a criminal subject of a separate FBI investigation that had to deal with his strip joint, Club Oasis. The FBI investigated Rob as part of an alleged kickback scheme that involved the Philadelphia Police Department and the Philadelphia Department of Licenses and Inspections.

or as we call it locally, L&I. There was also a separate investigation. The other was a homicide that occurred outside of his bar. That homicide happened in the parking lot of Rob LaFleur's strip club back in 2009. Here's Vito again.

There was a couple of the regulars that were showing up. There was some dispute inside. Security led the people out and it kind of escalated from there outside of Club Oasis. One of the patrons winds up getting struck by the security manager and falling and hitting his head and ultimately dying.

The victim who died was Jimmy Coons. He had gone to Oasis to watch a Phillies playoff game with his friend, but was thrown out of the club and wound up dead on the pavement of the Oasis parking lot. The ensuing homicide investigation wound up charging Rob LaFleur and a couple of others. Three people, including Rob LaFleur, were initially charged with third-degree murder of Jimmy Coons.

I spoke to the mother of Jimmy's children. I spoke to his sister. And I spoke to the man that was with Jimmy that night. His sister was the only person willing to go on the record. She spoke at length about that crime. And the one thing that stuck with me around this whole topic is that the police covered Jimmy's death up, or at least attempted to. I think the implication was

Oasis, Rob, and his associates had a number to call if they had a problem. Listen to what's in the court transcripts of this case. Following the incident in the parking lot, the Oasis bouncer did not call 911. Instead, he directly called a Philly PD sergeant multiple times. That sergeant and his partner later arrived on the scene. That sergeant also dispatched two other officers, including an officer assigned to the K-9 unit.

Seems odd to send the K-9 unit to a case like this, right? Two different sets of police showed up that night. The two guys who got kicked out of Oasis also dialed 911. So another set of cops showed up on the scene. Initially, Jimmy and his friend were seen as the suspects, not as the victims. Here's what one of the cops testified.

He said Rob LaFleur was at the gym when he got a call from his employees alerting him that two patrons at Oasis were causing a disturbance. So LaFleur drove to Oasis. LaFleur told the cops that once he arrived, the two patrons tried to steal his Rolex watch and started fighting with him in the parking lot. When the police questioned LaFleur about the security cameras at Oasis, LaFleur said the cameras weren't working. That was a lie.

The police later found out someone had simply disconnected the security system's computer monitor. The victim's sister went on to explain that the only way she got justice for her brother was because eventually these tapes and hard drives and footage were recovered and played in court. Where were they recovered? Gianna's junkyard. That's the same junkyard where Richard's truck was rumored to have been crushed in 2005. You can't make this shit up.

So this is a Delco Times article from February 2010. Club owner Robert LaFleur and bouncer John Pettit are facing trial for the murder in the death of James Coons. They were among six defendants who appeared in court. The murder trial started October 15, 2012, three years after the death of James Coons.

Before he would ever see his day in court, Rob LaFleur died January 2012 of an overdose. The cause of death, overdose by heroin, was unbelievable to people close to Rob. He was not a heroin user.

However, a January 2019 Philadelphia Inquirer article stated, acquaintances said that LaFleur had struggled with substance abuse for years and recently spent time in a drug rehab in Malibu, California. The people I spoke with also spent a lot of time asking why no one ever investigated Rob LaFleur's death. That left prosecutors with John, aka Jack Pettit, the bouncer of Oasis who was the other person charged with Jimmy Coon's death.

After a mistrial and years of delays, Pettit ultimately was found guilty of third-degree murder in 2016. He got seven and a half to 15 years, but by April 2024, Pettit was released from prison. My team was able to speak with him briefly, but he declined to speak on the record. Here's where the story gets even more bizarre. Another defendant from the Oasis parking lot death was a woman named Stacey Schoenberger. ♪

She was charged with conspiracy to hinder prosecution, but a judge threw out those charges, citing a lack of evidence. And that wasn't the first time Ben and I heard the name Stacey Schoenberger. Let's go back to 2005, right after Danielle and Richard disappeared. That's when both families put up websites with news about the investigation. Richard's site also had a message board.

When we first started researching this project, one of the things I had my team do was log every post on Richard's message board. Having the names and words of those who posted at the time felt significant. And it was. The reason Ben and I heard the name Stacey Schoenberger was because Stacey's name appears among the hundreds of posts on that website with the exact spelling. Stacey with an I. Stacey.

The post was published just over a month after Richard and Danielle disappeared. It's still up on the website today. Here's what it said. It's a post from March 22nd, 2005. I am so sorry to hear about this. I pray for your families every night. I have sent this to every contact in the address book. I think she meant my address book. The post continues, keep up the faith. My prayers are with you.

Did the Patrones know who Stacey Schoenberger is? I asked the Patrone family if that was a family friend or anyone they were related to, and the answer was no. I mean, like, a lot of people wrote on this memorial page, but that feels like a really odd coincidence. You want to hear a worse coincidence? Stacey's father worked at Gianna's junkyard. James C. Schoenberger died.

His obituary says he was a supervisor with the Gianna Salvage Company. James Schoenberger died in 2013. On his Legacy.com obituary, he's even photographed wearing a jacket with the Gianna's logo on it. Ben contacted Stacey Schoenberger to verify that she posted on Richard's memorial page. But Stacey did not want to go on the record with us.

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This election season, the stakes are higher than ever. I think the choice is clear in this election. Join me, Charlemagne Tha God, for We The People, an audio town hall with Vice President Kamala Harris and you, live from Detroit, Michigan, exclusively on iHeartRadio. They'll tackle the tough questions, depressing issues, and the future of our nation. We may not see eye to eye on every issue, but America, we are not going back.

Don't miss this powerful conversation with Vice President Kamala Harris. Tomorrow at 5 p.m. Eastern, 2 p.m. Pacific on the free iHeartRadio app's Hip Hop Beat Station. It's been 30 years since the horror began. 911, what's your emergency? Someone, he said he was going to kill me. Three decades since our small beach community was terrorized by a serial killer. Maybe, my dear Courtney, we're not done after all.

In the 1990s, the tourist town of Domino Beach became the hunting ground of a monster. No one was safe. No one could stop it. Police spun their wheels. Politicians spun the truth. While fear gripped us tighter with every body that was found. We thought it was over. We thought the murders had ended. But what if we were wrong? Come back to Domino Beach, Courtney. Come home. I'll be waiting for you.

Listen to The Murder Years, Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Stacey Schoenberger refused to speak with us on the record, but she is just one person I wish you could have heard from. And of course, Danielle's estranged husband, Joe Imbo, is at the top.

Earlier in 2024, Ben met up with Joe in person, but their conversation was off the record, so we can't share what he said in that meeting. But 10 years earlier, Joe had a sit-down interview with journalist Steve Volk. I remember I got a yes when I expected a no to interview him. Back in 2014, Steve was writing an article about Danielle and Richard for Philadelphia Magazine. I don't remember having to do any or much hand-holding or talking for the fact.

He pretty readily agreed. The two met for breakfast at a cafe just outside of Charleston. I had come in, though, with my constitutionally protected First Amendment opinion, thinking it likely that he knew something because there was so much attention paid to him in particular from the Patrons. Steve had his suspicions and Joe understood.

He said he was aware that people viewed him as a sort of monster following Danielle and Richard's disappearance. Joe even shared with Steve how FBI agent Vito Rosselli said as much. According to Joe, Vito told him, "'I don't think you did this, but I think you're involved in some way.'" But Joe told Steve law enforcement was focused on the wrong person. He said, "'If you haven't ruled me out, then you're not good at your job. I'm not a mastermind. I have a conscience.'"

They were powerful words from a person Steve said he couldn't make heads or tails out of. I just don't remember there being a lot of gravitas to him. His affect was pretty flat. He wasn't necessarily emotional at the times I expected him to be emotional. There was one point when Joe did get emotional. It happened when they talked about Joe's son. There was something over little Joe that he cried about. Not having Danielle around.

Joe teared up and said his son has suffered the most because he lost a wonderful person in his life. Steve remembers how Joe grabbed a napkin to wipe away a tear that ran down his cheek. Did it seem sincere to me? I don't know. I expected just more affect or emotion in general. Like there was a certain numbness that I felt.

Steve said he asked Joe about Richard Patron. I was like, you guys got in a heated conversation. And he was like, we exchanged words. We exchanged words. That was the extent of it. I wanted something big and dramatic. Instead, I got a guy who struck me as a little milquetoast guy.

Nevertheless, Steve moved on to the reason he flew all the way to South Carolina. I asked him the point blank question, did you have any involvement in your wife's disappearance or in what happened to Danielle and Richard? There was a moment, an electric moment, when he first looked away when I thought, the fucker is giving it up. And I remember this little kind of like immediate head shake of no and then meeting my eyes and said no.

Steve recalled Joe saying, there's only one person in the world that knows I didn't do it, and it's me. You know, as I remember it, I wasn't moved necessarily one way or another. Like, this guy definitely did it or didn't. A few minutes after they went their separate ways, Steve said his phone started ringing. It was Joe. He called Steve to thank him for the opportunity to remember the good times he had with Danielle.

But Joe also shared regrets, like making Danielle quit singing in the band. I hate to keep using this word, but it was yet another mindfuck. I don't know. He wasn't the darkest guy in the world. He didn't present as this glowering villain, but he also didn't present as this, you know, super sympathetic character either. It's interesting to hear Steve's description because it lines up almost exactly with how Ben felt after his meeting with Joe nearly 10 years later.

Even though Joe didn't want to talk with us on the record, he hasn't completely dropped off the grid. Just recently, he's been calling my mother. That's Danielle's brother, John. He said he was thinking of Danielle and he brought up something and he was laughing. And I said, that was nice. Just tell him never call me. You know, like my mother knows. And I think he's pretty aware of the fact that we're never going to speak again.

We asked John's mother, Felice, about those phone calls. He had some health issues many years ago, and he called to see how I was, and he called quite a few times. It's not where I talk to him every week, hey, how are you doing? No, we don't have that relationship. We're very cordial to each other. Felice said even though Danielle is gone, she continues to respect Danielle's rules when it comes to Joe.

Danielle always, always wanted to be respectful of him. No matter how she felt about him, we were never allowed to say anything derogatory about him or their situation. She literally said, that's my son's father, and I don't ever want him to hear anything bad about him come out of anybody's mouth.

So we never did. As for John, he's had a tougher time biting his tongue. He told us he hasn't spoken to Joe in years, and he's not mad about it. My nephew's an adult, so there's really no reason to have any communication with him. A couple times a year, little Joe comes to visit John and his family. Those meetings had been coordinated through John's wife, Jodi. And let's talk about little Joe.

Little Joe, or Joe Embo III, is now all grown up. And there's nothing little about him. He's an adult in his 20s who stands over six feet tall. He reminds me so much of Danielle and his mannerisms and his appearance. But then there's times he reminds me so much of his father. And I cry for him because he never really knew what it was like to grow up in a loving home with a mother and a father.

I know if this was my mother, I would have at least liked to be asked to participate, even if the answer was ultimately no. So we made the decision to reach out to little Joe. In an April 2024 text message, little Joe thanked us for giving his mom's case exposure, but declined to speak with us on the record.

For Richard Patron's daughter, Angela, she was just 14 years old when she lost her dad. When people disappear like that, it's difficult to get into your finances too because not dead, you know, if you don't know if they're dead, a lot of things we couldn't really get into. Richard's social security benefits was something Marge tried to get for her granddaughter, Angela, but she hit a roadblock. I didn't have a death certificate. It's like, let's just add insult to injury.

These are the things and injustices you don't think about when something like this happens. For Angela, she grew up with TV reporters camped outside her house, pointing cameras and microphones in her face. Today, she's the mother of a teenage boy who was around the age Angela was when Richard went missing. And now she worries about her own son, since her father's stories posted all over the internet.

I never thought my dad would be on TikTok, but there are stories of him. Did you know that Danielle Imbo and Richard Patron Jr. disappeared after leaving a Philadelphia bar in 2005? Like when I'm scrolling TikTok or YouTube, you see those videos, but like when it's your life, it's just so surreal. Richard was born in Philadelphia and had a daughter from a previous relationship named Angela with whom he was very close. She knows it's not good for her own mental health, but said she finds herself falling down the many rabbit holes.

Sometimes I can't help myself and then I'm on YouTube for four hours just watching videos of my dad and I just think, like, I can't believe that's my dad. Like, that's my life. Let's go back to the actual night of February 15th of 2005 when this all happened. You listen to these stories and some of them have false information. Danielle was last seen traveling with Richard Petroni in his vehicle. Unfortunately on YouTube, it's a lot of people making up videos.

I want to comment on everyone and be like, that's not right. Like, that's not correct. Factual or not, she knows all of these videos exist and that one day her son will find them. Sometimes when I just think about it, I'm just like, how is this my fucking life? Like, how did that happen? Like, you know, it's just, it's crazy that still to this day, there's just no answers. I honestly don't even really want to know exactly what happened. I just...

want someone to sit in jail and rot there the same way that we have to sit here and rot and not know what the hell happened. Just to know that whoever organized this, whoever played a part in it, now also loses their family, has to suffer, has to feel the pain. That would be it for me. I don't know if we're ever gonna find the evidence that we need. That's why we need the people that know something to say something.

This election season, the stakes are higher than ever. I think the choice is clear in this election. Join me, Charlemagne Tha God, for We The People, an audio town hall with Vice President Kamala Harris and you, live from Detroit, Michigan, exclusively on iHeartRadio. They'll tackle the tough questions, depressing issues, and the future of our nation. We may not see eye to eye on every issue, but America, we are not going back.

Don't miss this powerful conversation with Vice President Kamala Harris. Tomorrow at 5 p.m. Eastern, 2 p.m. Pacific on the free iHeartRadio app's Hip Hop Beat Station. It's been 30 years since the horror began. 911, what's your emergency? Someone, he said he was going to kill me. Three decades since our small beach community was terrorized by a serial killer. Maybe, my dear Courtney, we're not done after all.

In the 1990s, the tourist town of Domino Beach became the hunting ground of a monster. No one was safe. No one could stop it. Police spun their wheels. Politicians spun the truth. While fear gripped us tighter with every body that was found. We thought it was over. We thought the murders had ended. But what if we were wrong? Come back to Domino Beach, Courtney. Come home. I'll be waiting for you.

Listen to The Murder Years, Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Yeah.

But she's just a worker bee. I actually confront the real shoplifting queen herself. Just wanted to see if you'd be interested in talking to me about charges and stuff. No, I have no comment. A mother of three orchestrating all her crimes from a secluded hilltop mansion. We're walking around the perimeter of the house now.

I hear the cops. Dude, I think we should go. Let's roll. We're running from the cops. Listen to Queen of the Con Season 6, The California Girls, on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Gosh, if I was one of those California girls, I'd be sweating. On the last day of February 2023, FBI agent Vito Rosselli wrote up what's known as Form 302. That's our official interview document that becomes part of the case file.

That form was one of many he's filled out since he took on the case in 2005. My office would kid me because I had a whole half of a storeroom with boxes of criminal records of the individuals I was coming across, you know, background checks, all that stuff.

All of those boxes and binders make up the case file about Danielle Imbo and Richard Patron. Or, if you asked Vito... I called it Operation Anthony after St. Anthony. That was my mother's suggestion. I think he's the patron saint of lost causes. Anytime I lose something, I also call on St. Anthony. It's a simple prayer that goes, St. Anthony, please come around. Something is lost and must be found. ♪

Why? Because St. Anthony is the patron saint of lost or stolen things. And that day, after Vito finished writing his 302 form, he placed it in the Operation Anthony file. Then Vito gathered his belongings, left his office at the FBI, and never returned. That was my last official act. Vito didn't quit. He retired. The terms of which apply to all FBI agents.

57 is the maximum age. Makes sense. You're carrying a gun. You're supposed to be able to make an arrest, take care of yourself, you know, be able to handle yourself. That's probably the reasoning behind it. And it is what it is. It's always been that way. Vito's birthday was circled on the calendar. There was no escaping it. But before Vito called it a day and a career at the FBI, he still had to make a pair of uncomfortable phone calls. You know, I'd be lying if I said I didn't bust out.

I was just so upset. Danielle's brother, John, knew the call from Vito was coming, but it didn't lessen the sting. He told me the reasons why, and I get it. The only reason why I think this case has been open as long as it has been is because of Vito. The family spent the last two decades relying on one man, but this wasn't the only case Vito worked on over the last 19 years. You can't spend time on one case. It's just not a luxury we have.

In this particular case, they gave me a lot of free rein to put my time in it, but not only my time, you know, all the other folks that I was pulling into the investigation over the many years.

They gave me a lot of money, a lot of resources, allowed me to do a lot of creative things with this particular case. And then there was the phone call to Richard's family. And for Marge, it was doubly tough because she also looked at Fido like he was part of her family. He said even though he retired, an agent has one case that they can't let go of. I can't let go of this. I don't care where I go or if I retire, this will always be my case.

The families not only had to deal with Vito's retirement, but also some news about the case. The case is in what we call pending inactive status, which generally means we don't have a hot lead that we're following up on. And that's why we need the public to come in and hopefully generate that hot lead for us.

Our tip line is still open, and if the office deems that it's a tip that's worthy of follow up, they'll follow it up. For Marge, she's still waiting for answers to questions she's had since 2005. I have to believe in God in heaven and he's in the hands of God, but do I know what happened to him? No, I don't. Do I know where he is? No. Am I angry? Am I frustrated that after all this time, I can't get justice?

Yes, I am. I'm 75. I want to live to see it. So it's just agony for a parent. Just agony.

For Vito, it's a different type of agony. I'm the guy who couldn't bring them closure. You think about it. I'm the guy who every time I talk to him, I'm talking about a horrible thing. And I'm the guy who has to tell him that, hey, you know, there's no arrest being made. And then when it says, hey, not only am I that guy, I'm retiring. Well, I can't really do anything about it, you know, anyway.

Yes, that really sucked and that was a tough call. A new set of eyes took over Operation Anthony following Vito's retirement. In my mind, I've come to a reasonable conclusion on what didn't happen, what potentially did happen. Vito keeps telling me knowing it and proving it are two different things.

But again, we have closed no doors. You know, everything is open to review and investigation and continued review and continued investigation. You know, hopefully they'll get that break that they need to prove it. That's all I'm praying for. Just for justice, you know. Richard deserves justice. And so did Danielle.

In 2018, a separate set of doors slammed shut. The Patron's closed their family business, Viking Pastries. It was the end of the line for the neighborhood staple after more than 60 years. A medical marijuana dispensary now operates out of that space. Today, Big Rich continues to battle a myriad of health issues, which requires round-the-clock medical attention. He's now in an assisted living facility. That, along with other reasons, forced another big change for the Patron's.

In the summer of 2024, Marge Patron moved out of the house where she raised her family. That meant she lost the closest thing she ever had to a memorial for her son. I've been with people who've lost their children, but it's not the same. I'm not saying that I should grieve more than any other mother, but it's not the same.

Her mother, meaning Danielle's mother, Felice.

But the two haven't spoken in nearly 20 years. I said what I thought happened, and she was like, absolutely not. And if you didn't agree with her, that was it. To this day, Marge continues to blame Joe for Danielle and Richard's disappearance, even though the police have never charged Joe. He's still walking the streets. My son is not. My son got deprived. My granddaughter had to live without her father.

The bad blood between the families remains as thick as it was in 2005. Here's Danielle's brother, John. A few months ago, my friends took me out for drinks. I walk in and lo and behold, who's in the booth next to me with her girlfriends? Christine. Christine, as in Christine Patron, Richard's sister and Danielle's friend. It was, without a doubt, the most uncomfortable situation ever.

That's when a thought ran through John's head. I just wanted to go up to her and give her the biggest hug and tell her I love her and I'm sorry for everything. But we're just so far past that. And if I were her, I wouldn't even want to consider an apology from me. If I learned anything from talking to Danielle and Richard's families, that bridge between both families is broken beyond repair.

I can't take back the things I've said, and I won't because I believe them. With all of my being, I'm not going to blame anyone until the FBI tells me who to blame. There's still a $15,000 reward for information leading to an arrest and conviction in this case. Earlier, I told you about a list of people I wish you were able to hear from. And on that list were friends and acquaintances of both victims, two of which spoke to the media but didn't want to go on the record with us.

And then there's another person who really disappointed me. She was with Danielle earlier in that night before Danielle disappeared. This person said she had done several interviews in the past and was upset that they never included her recollection of specific details from that night, specifically how Danielle had acted. In a lengthy conversation with this person, she told Ben how Danielle's mood shifted from light and easy to on edge. She claimed Danielle was looking over her shoulder as though she was under threat.

We offered this eyewitness the opportunity to share all those details. After months of exchanging messages, she agreed to an interview. On the day of our interview, she told Ben she was scared. There's a lot of fear that surrounds this case. Fear and loyalty. I think one of the biggest things that I related to from the medium, Jonathan Mark, was he goes... It's like everyone's protecting their circle.

It's just very clear that there are networks of people protecting their own. Whether you want to be a skeptic or not, it rings true to me that this is not just one person pulling this off or one just group of criminals that got lucky. Even when he uses the line, the star is a line for them. No, this is a sophisticated network to keep this case down and keep burying it so that it doesn't see the light of day.

That's what I imagine Vito is running into, people that are protecting their own, even if their own is responsible for murdering two innocent people. This extends past Rob LaFleur. I mean, let's talk about Robert Carey, the alleged hitman. I pounded the pavement in Fishtown. I've talked to people who feel certain that he was involved. Like Steve Volk said, in Fishtown, this case is closed. Like, this is barroom conversation.

who talks about a murder so openly like that, but this neighborhood does. But no one, except for one person, was willing to go on the record. And it wasn't necessarily because they were in fear for their life. It was they respected Robert Carey's family, and they felt if they went on the record, they would be identifiable. Someone would know me by context clues. That's how tight these neighborhoods are.

You know, one of my sources said about Robert Carey, it was like a well-known fact. Like he made known, if I get arrested, I'm calling it. It was kind of like this lore in the neighborhood. I'm never going to do a day in jail. And he didn't do time. The same day he was arrested for his prescription scheme, he did call it. As you may remember, Robert Carey was found on the floor of his jail cell in 2010 with a shoelace around his neck.

We learned that for several years, Kerry had a defense lawyer named Scott DiClaudio. In 2015, despite receiving a not recommended rating from the Bar Association, Scott DiClaudio was elected to the bench. Today, he continues to be a sitting judge in Philadelphia. Vito once told me that when investigating a crime, he never believed in coincidences. That was until he started working on this case. And I gotta tell you, there are a lot of coincidences when looking into the details.

One we recently came across. Earlier in this episode, I shared with you that Rob LaFleur and strip club bouncer John Pettit were charged with third-degree murder of Jimmy Coons.

Well, the strange circumstances around John Pettit's case is that since 2019, John Pettit has been petitioning the court for post-conviction relief, essentially to get his conviction thrown out. This has been in the courtroom for over five years now. And when we dug into those records, it got a bit more suspicious. We learned that the judge presiding over John Pettit's post-conviction relief proceedings was none other than Robert Carey's former attorney, Scott DiClaudio.

There are a lot of coincidences in this case. Where do all of these coincidences leave us? For me personally, it leaves me heartbroken for the families. I'm scared that my city can hold such deep secrets, but hopeful that someone will be brave enough to come forward and break their silence. In the meantime, the families must continue to wait. One time somebody asked my son, what would you do if your sister walked through that door?

And I remember he said, "I would hug her and never let her go." You need to just pull one little thread and the whole thing can unravel. What you think is unimportant may be the most important thing in your life. We want to know the why and the who. She has a son who deserves more than I deserve it. She has a son who deserves to know what happened to his mother.

John and Jodi's son, Dominic, doesn't remember his Aunt Danielle, but he lives in the wake her loss left behind. Growing up, Dad didn't get too emotional in front of us. So to listen to a little bit of the podcast and see him get emotional, it made me kind of realize how much he's been just throwing under the carpet for a while. And the house across the street was for sale at the time, and they were looking at that house. He means Danielle and Joe.

I just remember my mom telling me that and me really thinking about what life would be like if they lived right across the street, how often they'd come over and the difference in the relationship I'd have with my cousin. One night a few months back, I couldn't sleep. I was thinking about Danielle and Richard, the Patrons and the Ottobres, and I just couldn't shake this bigger question. What is it to be alive? I used to think it was in the big moments and milestones, but more and more, it's in the small.

Like the rubbing of your tired feet under warm blankets after a long day, bathing your two-year-old baby, trying to braid your daughter's pigtails, drinking a beer while listening to Bruce Springsteen, sweating into your microphone as you sing alongside your band on a hot summer night, placing your bets before the football game, calling your mom to ask what time to be there for Sunday dinner, icing a birthday cake, calling your brother on his way home from work. And then I thought, what is it to be missing?

Those simple moments become memories, a shadow forever following the people you touch, heavily casting down in the big moments. You become an open chair at the Christmas table, a face in a frame at the reception. Instead of walking your daughter down the aisle, you become a milestone. Five years gone, 10 years gone, 19 years gone, 20. You become a ghost, an empty guest bedroom with a gift waiting for your return.

You become a hollow ache. I want nothing more than justice for Richard and Danielle and their families. And I truly hope if someone listening knows something, please reach out. All that I know is I see you in my dreams. Reach out in the dark for you. I'll never give up no matter how hard you go. Each corner I turn.

There's another puzzle piece We follow the clue Looking for I'll never give up No matter how long To find that you're

If you have any information about the disappearance of Danielle Limbaugh and Richard Patron, please call the Citizens Crime Commission tip line at 215-546-8477. Or contact the There and Gone team at thereandgonepod at gmail.com. That's thereandgonepod at gmail.com. Be sure to follow the show on Apple Podcasts so you'll be the first to learn if there are developments on this case.

There and Gone is a production of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass and Ben Fetterman. It's hosted and written by me, Andrea Gunning, with additional reporting and writing by Ben Fetterman. The series is also written and produced by Todd Gans. Our associate producer is Kristen Melchiorri. Research by Mason Klinder, Anna Hamilton, and Bella Rickey. Our iHeart team is Allie Perry and Jessica Kreincheck.

Audio editing and mixing by Matt Dalvecchio. Additional editing support from Nico Arruca and Tanner Robbins. Theran Gunn's theme and original compositions were composed by Oliver Baines and Dari McCauley of Noiser. Music library provided by Myb Music.

And a special thanks to both the Patron and Etobre families. Your strength and willingness to share your stories have been invaluable to the making of this podcast. Thank you for allowing us to honor the memories of your loved ones and to help keep their stories alive. For more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Listen to The Murder Years, Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.