Ep 512 - White Prisoner's Dilemma (feat. Jared Klickstein)
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We're live. Jared Clickstein, what the fuck's up, dude? Thank you for having me. Total honor. Dude, thanks for coming to do this. Yeah, of course. I was hyping your book up on the Patreon, too. I know, I know. I never really talked about it on the regular one, I don't think. No, I appreciate it. What a book. It changed everything. Yeah. Dude, that shit was unbelievable. Thank you. Glad you're alive. You sent me the thing, and I'm like, alright. I read a sample chapter, and I'm like, oh, this is fucking... I've always wanted... For people who don't know, you've...

You basically lived for a period on Skid Row. Yeah. And that's not... The whole story is like, you know, how you got there, how you started off, blah, blah, blah. But Jesus Christ, what a... For my, like, perverted voyeuristic brain, I was like, I can actually, like, get some boots on the ground account of that. Because you just drive by it and you're like, Jesus Christ. So that for me was very satisfying, which, you know, I'm sure it's like, thanks, dickhead. But it's like...

I really was always curious what that was like. Well, everyone's curious. I mean, everyone sees Skid Row. Everyone sees these homeless junkies. And like one finally made it out and is like can read words and write words and stuff. That's a big one. That's a big one. So, yeah, so I wrote it. And I try to make it funny because a lot of people write these like drug memoirs. And they're really, you know, like Hunter Biden's memoir is probably not funny. No. No.

Unless you're against the Bidens. Well, of course. Actually, he does a good job at swaying people. I'm like, yeah, Joe Biden is a good fucking... Maybe he is. I don't fucking know. Maybe he is. But it wasn't funny. Oh, you read it? Yeah, I read Hunters. I'm on a big autobiography kick, man. I read them all. Although I feel like, and forgive me, but I think there could have been aspects, could have been aspects of his that might have been politically pressured to kind of like...

paint a certain light. Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure he didn't write it either. That's another big one. Yeah. So I wrote it. Although he was pretty productive, man. He was blasting. He was just ripping crack. He could have just. He could have. Yeah. What's crazy is I was just in Boston and I like went through all my personal stuff and I found all my dad's shit because my dad was a crackhead and they, I got taken away when I was 12 and then he just went like full Hunter Biden. He got these camcorders and I have like 20 hours of footage. No.

No dicks or anything. Not yet. I've only watched like two hours. What's his footage? So it's non-sex tapes. It's just him? It's like him and my mom smoking crack and being paranoid and him doing drug deals and setting up the camera on his little Ford Taurus. Because he's paranoid. True. And it's like him filming his closet and he's like, the CIA has like...

Summoned a demon to live in my closet. It's like really crazy. How many hours of this footage you have? I have like 20 tapes. Yeah. Damn. So that'll probably be the subject of like the next book or like a documentary. Yeah, I was about to say that would be a wild doc. Damn, maybe he was just reviewing the tapes trying to get better at drug dealing. Be like, ah, I could have been a little more careful right there in that parking lot. Well, I think he was just really paranoid and was filming everything. And I think crack does make you voicemail.

Or it makes you start filming for some reason. I don't know. Really? Yeah, but this is like 2001, like with a camcorder. I could see that. If you wake up, you're like, damn, last night was a movie. Dude, I got to record the next one. And he's like learning how to edit. It was like editing on the camera, like doing swipes and stuff. So it's like him smoking crack. And then there's just like a swipe of a picture of a crack pipe. He's like doing like iMovie shit from 2001. Yeah.

So you're going to go through all that footage. I'm going to go through all. Yeah, I went through like two hours of it already. Damn. What was that like? That must have been kind of charged. I mean, I know I'm laughing and I know this is a comedy podcast, you know, but yeah, it's dark. Yeah. It's fucking dark. Yeah, man. Oh my God. Yeah. That would. Yeah. Yeah. All right. You submit for America is funny. Some videos. Yeah.

And your dad passed recently? My dad passed, yeah, yeah. Not from crack. He cleaned up. But thank you. RIP.

So this is a weird way to be introduced to my dad, but... Yeah. And I hope there's no dicks or any, like... I'm just praying that there's no, like, sexual stuff, but... Yeah, you can blur him. He wasn't like that. You can blur him for the doc. Yeah. That would be... That would be pretty rugged, dude. Yeah. It's also a... I don't know. There is something heart... It's your parents, you know? It's your dad. So there's something, like, heartwarming about watching it, but it is... Yeah. It's utterly twisted. Well, what's really fucked up is, like, I remember them on drugs. Yeah. So seeing them on drugs is, like, heartwarming. Yeah.

Yeah, that makes sense. Which is fucked up. Yeah, it's really fucked up. But, you know, it's good footage. That is. That would be a pretty stellar doc. Yeah, HBO, if you're listening, you know. And if there's any part of you that's like, is it right? It's like, dude, I always say, yes. Yeah. They owe it to you. Yeah. He recorded the crack footage. Don't waste it.

like should i really put them out there like that i would say yes not in a bad way but it's like it's your story to tell yeah exactly if i was doing that my kids had all that footage i'd be like yeah dude fuck yeah you can do anything with this please no and it shows them in like a pretty good light i mean they're good they were good people you know so like they're like having conversations and talking about cool shit and and like you know dragons living in the closet and all that so it is funny it is dark but uh

You know, unfortunately that's all the footage I have of them. Really? Yeah. Damn. Yeah. I mean, most, to be fair, most people don't have any, I have no videos really of my parents. So,

I know you don't really think about that. So fortunately they were crackheads and got really into camcorders. That's pretty sick, dude. I might hire a camera crew, a full-time camera crew. My parents now catch the final. Yeah. Just catch their remaining years, turn their whole life into a reality show against their will. Yeah. No, I, I filmed my dad Reese like right before he died. He like told a story cause he, he did yo-yo ma's kitchen and like all his finished carpentry or like finished cabinetry and all that. And,

he was like stealing Oxycontin from Yo-Yo Ma. - Who's Yo-Yo Ma? - He was a cellist, celloist. - Yeah, yeah. - Who was on oxys?

I think he like is a legitimate guy that got like a back surgery or something. Yeah, I believe that. But my dad did not, you know, he was just stealing it. Doing his kitchen. Yeah. So he told the story. It was pretty funny. That's really funny actually. How'd the kitchen turn out? Really good. My dad was a great carpenter. He did John Kerry's desk and office and John Kerry tried to not pay him. What? Yeah. Senator John Kerry? Senator John Kerry has it. Yeah. Apparently he had an issue with paying people. What? Yeah. They wrote about it in the Boston Globe.

Yeah. Damn. I never heard you heard it here first, dude. I never heard it here second, dude. That's great. Yeah. So he tried to stiff. How much did you try to stiff your dad for? Oh, I don't know how much, but, uh, but my dad went, went, you know, he was like a Senator in Boston. And then, and then I guess he went to DC at some point and my dad went down to DC and like did his office down there. Gotcha. Yeah. And he was like, thanks dickhead. That's brutal, dude. Yeah. Yeah.

That sucks. So that was like your whole start was just you grew up just it was pretty it was kind of nuts or like I remember you described it as like it was nuts. But as a little kid, you would just watch your parents just kind of off the rails and be like, no, they're just a little stressed. Like you eventually learned there's a funny part of that book was like I thought they were smoking weed. I was like, yeah, shit, dude. Well, that's what's cool about the like the tapes that I have, because my dad would make his own crack pipes and he would and they look like little like bongs, you know.

So I would just find these bongs and I just thought my parents were smoking weed. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, because I saw Half Baked came out and I was like, oh, my parents are just, you know, they just weigh 90 pounds and they smoke weed. They must not be getting the munchies enough. Yeah, that is pretty... There was parts of that book, literally, I would just start crying. I brought it to Denver with me. I read it, like, I started reading it on the plane. I'm like, Jesus Christ, it's so engrossing. You get so engrossed in it. And then I'd like, I'll get back from shows and just...

read it for like hours and I ripped through it in like pretty much a weekend yeah well thank you man I mean I'm not like obviously I have like have holes in my brain and I've like killed a lot of brain cells so it's an easy read you know I'm not like I'm not Shakespeare or anything but yeah but I appreciate no old English in there at all no old English we're leaving yeah but I appreciate I'm sure you get hit up by a lot of people with like here's a picture

picture I drew or whatever. Here's a book I wrote. Thank you for reading it. Dude, it was awesome. Thank you. It was genuinely really... And then it's... So, and you've been on Fox, I think, a couple times or maybe... What else? You've been on the news. Yeah. And you're, like, giving, like, the takes on, like, homelessness, which I thought that was kind of cool, too. I didn't know. Yeah. Because you came out of that. I'm sure people would love to have you, like, see, we need more funds. And you're, like, actually...

Well, Fox loves me because if any opportunity to shit on California, like they'll take you on. So they took me on like immediately. And I'm like pretty apolitical. But and everyone was like, don't go on Fox. Like it's going to fuck your life up. Fuck Fox and all that. And.

And I was like, no, I'm going to go on Fox. And I did it and it got me a book deal. And it actually reunited me with my aunt and uncle. That's pretty cool. They thought I was just still a crackhead. Well, you know, so they saw me on the news. I saw you on the winner's network. Yeah. He's fucking winning right now. Yeah. Well, they don't actually, they're kind of like, they don't like Fox, but like a relative was like, yo, Jared's on Fox.

and they saw me, and they're like, oh, shit, he's probably not smoking crack. Yeah, they have to watch it and be like, huh. Yeah. This is pretty good. Yeah, I mean, it is a – that was a cool thing you did in the book where it's like, you know, here's my story, and then it's like, by the way, and I think you did this pretty good where it wasn't like – because you could have, like, went full court press, like, here's my takes on policy, blah, blah, blah. It would just get, like –

tossed in peppered in you'd be like yeah that's a fair point yeah and correct me if i'm wrong your your whole idea is that like definitely we should help homeless people but like let's kind of build accountability in there if you're just kind of like putting people up for free or just like showering people and resources and not dealing with the inner issue yeah you're killing them because they're just going to keep getting high and die

Yeah. It's like a house is burning down and like, instead of spraying it with water, you're like, here's like medicine to like deal with your burns. You know, like we have to kind of address the key, like the foundational issue of addiction. And listen, there's a lot of homeless people that aren't addicted. Obviously, you know, some of them are just mentally ill permanently. A lot of those people that are mentally ill, like I was mentally ill. Like I was screaming in like a McDonald's dining area. Like, you know, I was like yelling at people and throwing shit. That feel good. Yeah.

Yeah. I've always wanted to get up. It kind of does because when you're home, it's crazy because when you become homeless, you're like, I'm not, I'm like jaywalking. It like starts with jaywalking. And then you're like, I'm going to like deliberately walk in front of cars. Dude, I always wondered about that. So you start being like, fuck these cars. I'm going. And then you're like, I'm going to litter. And then you're like, I'm going to like knock over a trash can. And it just like escalates. And it's like, I'm going to throw shit at people in a McDonald's. And then it's like, I'm going to rob people. Yeah. Yeah.

I might as well put all this energy to good use. And then, yeah, it does escalate. Cause, cause going to jail is like, it's basically like a sleepover. It's like, Oh shit. I get to like chill for like three days. So going to jail is like not a punishment. It's like, Oh shit, I'm going to get a pillow and like a shower. Yeah. So you're like, I out throw shit at people. Yeah. That makes sense. I'm going to fuck this lady up. Yeah. Yeah. I saw a guy recently, um,

Which one do you want to call it? Jesus Christ, I'm blanking on where I was. This is bad. I was in Portland, Oregon, and they have a lot of homeless people there. Oh, yeah, yeah. This weekend, and there was this guy. Me and Nate Marshall were walking, and this guy, he was kind of drunk. He was like, oh, what are you guys, homies? And I was like...

Yeah, actually we are. And I was like, maybe he's just being friendly. I couldn't really tell. And then I come back and he was just getting in homeless people's faces and being like, what's up, dude? And like shoulder bumping him. I'm like, dude, you're going to get fucking stabbed, dude. I was waiting for it. I'm like, please fucking bash this guy's head in with it. That was, because that was the thing too. Like the, I didn't realize how hard everyone was rumbling in this. I mean, obviously I knew there was like bad stuff going on, but you're saying like you'd sleep with like a pipe between your legs. People would come in your setup and you got to just fucking,

Yeah. That was that shit. I was like, I mean, it makes sense obviously, but I was always like, ah, I think people are maybe just chilling a little, a little more peaceful. No, people are pretty angry because you have nothing to lose when you have nothing to lose. You're willing to lose your life because your life isn't worth that much. So, and I'm like, you know, I'm like not big. I'm like a white guy. I, I like look, you know, I look the way I look, but, uh, you know, I, I looked like I was like 16 until I was like 30.

Yeah. You know, so I look like a kid. Same. And then I looked like I was 75 very fast. I skipped like three, three decades of aging. And now I went from like looking like I was like 27 to looking like I was like 55. Yeah. Well, I look forward to hitting that relatively soon, but yeah. Yeah. So like, I looked like a bitch basically. I mean, I'm not hard, you know? So, um,

Yeah, people tried to fuck with me. And like, you know, being white on Skid Row is unlike everything else in life. It's a detriment. Yeah, it's true. So, you know, it wasn't that cool. But people were almost like flabbergasted. They're like, what is this like suburban white boy thing?

They were like kind of respected it. Yeah. They're like, holy fuck, man. This like clean cut white kid is, is like doing it on Skid Row. So. And it was probably came in handy. Like you're, I was reading that, like, that's kind of nice when you're able to like use your kind of appearance to, it just helped you. Yeah. Like I went to college, I can talk. So like people were like, oh shit, we could keep this kid around. And like,

talk to the police for us or whatever. And I was really good at stealing because of it. Yeah. You know, if you're like a Mexican guy with tattoos all over your face, it's, it's not easy to like go steal shit. Yeah. Trying to lift toothpaste is not easy. Yeah. Yeah. At least 10 years ago. True. Yeah. Now it's all locked up, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. So that kind of fucked everything up. Like I was doing it back in the day when they weren't locking everything up and I was like pretty good. I had like a pretty good system and I made more money than I do now.

like working a job yeah you were saying when you were shoplifting it was a couple thousand like a day pretty much no like a couple thousand a week on text yeah you know sweet so like the same that you would make it like a job now same it's a shame you missed the self-checkout i know i had no excuse i was of a relatively sober mind and i pillaged those things pretty hard in the beginning and it wasn't even for like a lust for stuff i was just kind of like it was more of like a game where i'd be like

is anyone here actually paying attention to this? Yeah. And it turned out, no, not really at all. No. But yeah, I've since obviously given that up. But the, yeah, remember that part of the book where you had a guy who would serve as decoy and then you would just slip into the side and just, because he was, I guess everyone was like, oh, this motherfucker is going to come in here and steal and you could just

clean out and move yeah yeah Richie I mean his real name was Ryden I'll just say it I guess but uh yeah Ryden was like known across LA County as like a top shoplifter so he'd go in first all the staff would be like fucking Ryden's here they would like you know like I

I'll huddle around riding and I'd sneak in with two Trader Joe's permanent shopping bags tucked in my pants and just dump shit into my bags. Damn, then you'd probably be looking pretty hippie when you went out there, though. I know. I looked like a good Samaritan just chopping. Wait, so you had them in your pants and you popped them out? Popped them out. And then carried? Yeah, just carried two bags. And I linked up with this...

what do you call it, like a fence. And I got him to start buying makeup. So I just like pour makeup into my bag. And he'd give me like $2.75 per little eyelash thing or whatever. And yeah, I just started making a ton of money. Damn. And still going to sleep every night with $0. Fuck. Yeah. Yeah, that's pretty wild. That was the craziest thing. So for you, it was like, you know, and again, in the book, you kind of detail, but you start out, you know, it's pretty like regular kind of stuff, but you...

In terms of the drug use, it wasn't so much of like, I'm going to try this. I'm going to try that. You just describe having this just like constant feeling of like, this is wrong. Shit's wrong. Shit's fucked up. And it was like, I need to stay drunk all the time. And it was the thing you, the thing you talk about really like, it's just how like the kind of the mental gymnastics of like, look, I'm always, here's my line.

I'm good on this side of the line. If I cross this line, then it's a problem. Then you cross the line, you're like, look, the line's over here. If I cross over here, then I'm fucked. Then eventually it's like, god damn it. Yeah, yeah. There's just constant. And obviously the end line is like, I'm going to have sex with a guy for money. That's like the last line. And fortunately I did not cross that line. I know people don't believe that. Why? Why do people not believe that? What the fuck, dude? It's just all my high school friends are like, we know you did it.

You know, and I swear I didn't. I mean, one time I let a guy tickle my feet for a hundred dollars. Who wouldn't dude? That's who wouldn't. And he, and he actually was like a kind of a camcorder guy. So like he filmed it and I, and I've hit him up on Gmail. This was like 2011. So I've recently hit him up on Gmail and I'm like,

yo, I know you've tickled a lot of feet, but like, do you remember me? Like, I'd like to see that footage. And he's like, I'll give you a hundred bucks. Yeah, exactly. And he's like, ah, he's like, what size foot were you? Like, I got to remember. And, and he's like, I don't know. I've tickled too many feet, but he like tied me up in a bed, like with those, like, you know, those like kinky tie up things that have like quick release. It's like safe play or whatever. Yeah. I could imagine. Yeah. So like, it was like kind of my wife. No, there's no safe way down. Yeah.

But he was cool. He went to UC Berkeley. He was like a small Asian man. Nice. We talked, you know, I went to UC Santa Cruz. So we had our little rivalry. We talked, you know, we talked school and then he tickled me. Was he, what was his deal? Was he kind of like. Just a sexual pervert. He was just a sexual pervert. Yeah. He was kind of otherwise just chilling, normal job. He's like, I'm going to tickle these guys. Oh yeah. I think he had like a good job.

But he was just like, I'm really into tickling. I'm really into tickling feet specifically. And I was like, well, I'm like a meth head. So my feet do not look good. You know? And I was like, can I keep socks on? And he was like, no, no, you got to take the socks off. So I took the socks off and he was like, put the socks back on. Your feet were thrashed. And then he was like tickling my feet. And he was like, and I wasn't laughing. Like eventually you stop laughing. It stops becoming ticklish. And he was like, you have to like you, that's how you get paid. Like you have to laugh. So that was weird. You had to fake it? I had to fake it. I faked it. Yeah.

So that was really like the and that was pretty innocent, honestly. So I crossed way worse lines in terms of like, you know, damage I did to other people and things like that that I don't feel good about. But generally, I had a pretty good time. You know, I started out as a heroin addict and that was pretty manageable and boring. You just kind of get sleepy.

But then I moved to methamphetamine and that's when things kind of picked up. The way you did that was kind of cool. It wasn't as bad idea, but like how you're saying you were, yeah, you were delivering heroin for a guy and they basically forced you like, bro, I know you're going to be nodding out and shit. Hit some meth. Get out there. Yeah. Yeah. I kind of worked for this guy that was like working under the cartel and, and, um, and he would pay me to deliver heroin and heroin addicts, you know, as you see outside, there's, they're sleepy, you know, they're pretty sleepy. So, uh, he was like, I can't trust that you drive and

and do heroin, you're going to crash, you're going to get arrested. So you got, you actually, as a prerequisite for the job, you have to start doing meth. And that was a line, you know, that was a line. And I was like, well, it's part of my job details. Like obviously I'm going to do that. Being responsible. Yeah. And in meth, I like fell in love with meth. I'm a company man. And yeah, I started doing meth and that, like, I went from like a homeless student. I mean, no, no, sorry. A drug addict student, like pretty manageable, had a girlfriend, all that. Like

Till like within three weeks, like screaming at people, homeless, like lost my place to live, dropped out of school, crashed my car, lost the car. Yeah, meth like really quickly took me down. That kind of sent you into orbit basically. Yeah, and I like lost my mind. And, you know, there's a lot of fun to be had like in meth psychosis and all that, but it does become pretty unmanageable. And eventually I used crack cocaine to quit meth. So I kind of fell in love with crack.

Because that got you off of meth, yeah. And I've heard vice versa. I've heard of people using meth to get off the crack. A lot of people actually do that. Yeah. So if you go to Skid Row, it's like full of like OG crackheads that switch to meth. And they're kind of like, are they tame or are they kind of out of it? Well, meth is cheaper, but I think you see meth is like, you can stay up for six days on meth and like really start doing some damage, like, you know, really thinking that you're talking to demons and all that and stuff.

you get into this like really dark psychosis, whereas crack is very simple. It's just like you think the, it's like you're just paranoid about the police. So like it actually, and it's very like short, it's like short bursts of this paranoia that's actually pretty fun. That's cool. Yeah. So like you smoke crack and you think like the FBI is after you.

Which is kind of cool. Yeah, that's better than demons. I'd rather keep it to this realm. Yeah, exactly. And open myself up to like, you know, interdimensional fucking beings and shit. And you like tell yourself, you're like, I'm going to smoke this crack. Like, obviously the CIA is not after me.

Obviously the FBI is not after me like I'm just a crap I'm a homeless crackhead and then you every single time that you smoke crack and you're like immediately hiding behind a dumpster and you're like helicopter And they're like I stole some makeup. They're fucking after I'm on like America's Most Wanted. I'm on the bulletin board Yeah that um, yeah, that is kind of terrifying it was weird too when you said you were able to like eventually with meth

Realize like with like, you know, when you're bugging out on weed, like none of this is real, but like, I guess obviously it's way deeper, but to realize like, this is just a meth delusion. And I'm, and I was at, you were able to like kind of ride that out a little bit, which sounds fucking crazy. Yeah. Well, when you first start doing it, you have a lot of auditory hallucinations. So you actually hear like your friends in the, so you're like, holy shit, my friends are in the house. Like they're in the next room. Then you start texting your friend. You know, I would text my friends and be like, you know, I, I hear you talking shit.

And they're like, I'm 100 miles away right now. And you're like, yeah, right. Yeah. Oh, fuck. But the auditory hallucinations are so – they're just so insane that eventually you are like, okay, my friends are not in the next room. My family is not in the next room. And you sort of tame the beast at that point. And then it just turns into like –

mental hallucinations which are more creative and more fun okay once you get over the paranoia you're like actually yeah let's let's explore some of these other ideas yeah yeah but it's a terrible drug i don't i don't recommend anyone you know it's pretty hard to like functionally use meth yeah and like keep your job unless you're a nazi soldier yeah or a gay guy gay guys seem to be able to i've heard that yeah yeah yeah that's pretty cool how what the hell

Yeah, I don't know. I used to like chill with these gay dudes in San Francisco and they were like flight attendants and like had jobs. Yeah. Do you think they were like microdosing or they like they're blazing? No, I think they were using meth pretty hard. Well, you know, you use meth for like a long weekend. It works really well with jobs that are like three days on, four days off. Oh, that makes sense. You just crash for like three days. And then they'd use GHB to like come down. And I like GHB, but they were like, do not pass out around us.

They were like, someone could come in. They let you know. They were like, that's on you, buddy. Yeah, true. So I'd use GHB and be like, it's time for me to go, guys. I'm out. Yeah, like this is getting too wild in here. Yeah, dude. I mean, maybe not to sound ridiculous, but I could see that. If you're like a gay guy and you're just kind of messed up, people are like, hmm, he's a little sassy today.

Yeah. It might just take your sass to the next level. Well, they were my friends, but they were like, we have other friends that like, we can't, they might come in here and who know you're passed out. Like who knows what happens, you know? So they're like looking out for me. That's fair. Yeah. Yeah. Especially if you're like, you know, partying on meth, that's like,

Yeah, if you're partying on meth with a bunch of gay guys in San Francisco, it's kind of on you if something like that happens. I would agree. I would agree. Especially if it's already like... Obviously, they're probably doing the chem sex thing and all that. Yeah, heavy into chem sex. That's basically... Can't pass out a chem sex orgy, dude. No, you cannot pass out. I would say that's on you. Traditionally, I'd be like, well, you know, people should conduct themselves in a proper manner. But if you're just like, yeah, I'm going to go to bed right now. A little sleepy. Yeah.

The HB's kicking my ass. I'm about to pass out, guys. You do you. I'm going to just sleep here on my belly. Don't bother me. I'm such a pussy with substances. I took melatonin for the first time recently because I'm trying to get my sleep, which I've had some success getting my sleep schedule under wraps with traveling and all this stuff. So I've started taking melatonin.

I'm such a pussy with substances. Like, even that, three milligrams of melatonin, I'm like, I take it, I'm just laying there reading a book. I'm like, it's not even working. So I'm just reading, reading, reading, and all of a sudden, I put my book down. I'm like...

Oh, fuck. My arms are so heavy. I was like, oh, no. I just curl up next to my wife like, help me. I don't like – yeah, I was like the opposite. Like anything – if anything goes into my body, I'm like, what's this? What's happening? But I do understand you get to the point where you go, I don't give a fuck. I do get that too. If things are going wrong and things are – you're just like, I don't give a fuck.

I need to exit. Do I? You build a tolerance to like physically, but you also build a tolerance mentally. You're like, I want to check out. Yeah. So like I was like by the end, I was shooting heroin, cocaine and Klonopin at the same time. Damn. Which is I don't even know if shooting Klonopin works, but I was shooting Klonopin. I'm sure it does. I'm sure it got into your bloodstream. I think so. Yeah. It like what do you call it? It like.

it makes the heroin acts heavier, you know, because you get such a high tolerance to heroin. And like the problem with heroin is like you get really addicted to heroin to the point where your life gets really shitty and then you want to kill yourself. But it's like a catch 22 because like

Now you've become too physically addicted that it's hard to overdose on heroin to kill yourself, you know? Oh yeah. So that, that chain obviously with fentanyl, that's different. Yeah. You can kill yourself pretty easily with fentanyl. So you got out of it before like the big shit with like the, um, it's a shit called Trank with like the big moves. Have you seen that? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I last got high in 2018 and I was, uh, right when fentanyl really started hitting, but I was in Florida at one point and, and fentanyl sort of hit Florida first. So I have shot fentanyl.

I don't like it. You know, I died, you know, I overdosed in some guy's car and he like took me to the hospital and like took everything out of my pockets and like dragged me out of his car and left me. Jerk. But they, you know, they Narcan, they like Narcan me and, uh,

They were like, yeah, man, you were doing fentanyl. And I was like, I didn't even know what fentanyl was. And they told me. So then obviously I was like, I'm never doing that again. And then like two days later, I was like, I'm going to do that again. And fentanyl is... So you died. You clinically... I died. I died for like four minutes.

I have a friend who did that. He died like three times. Yeah. It's crazy. It's crazy because you're like dead and then they Narcan you and you feel like you're underwater and someone's like pulling you up from the ocean. You're like at the bottom of the ocean. You can't breathe. You're like trying to breathe. And then they like pull you out. Then you just pop out of the ocean. And then you like you're just in a hospital and people are like looking at you.

and i heard you're pretty agitated too because it all wears off it all wears off you're pissed and they like don't want to help you because you're i'm like can i use a phone the guy took my phone they're like can you use a phone like yeah you're right on the beat you're like bro i need to talk to my boy it was me 40 bucks you're like lay down dude you're dead yes and then and they cut my shirt open so i had like a they like let me go with a gown in miami and i was just like walking around miami with a gown and like no phone and i called my dad i finally called my dad and he was like

He was just like, man, you got to go to jail. Like jail would help you right now. Yeah. You know, that's what you do. Um, I think I just called some other people and, and eventually, you know, I got picked up, but I, I just kept using fentanyl, but fentanyl is like very debilitating. Like, you know, I would do fentanyl and like, I did like a two week run on fentanyl and I'd like, you do fentanyl and you just wake up 12 hours later in like a different neighborhood. And you know, it's really fucked up. Whereas heroin, you can like, like I used to do construction on heroin. Like you can maintain it. I used to like,

heavy machinery and shit. Yeah. Whereas with fentanyl, I couldn't even make it back to my halfway house. So like the one rule at my halfway house was like, you just have to show up before midnight and you don't get kicked out. And I got kicked out. Like I couldn't even drive a car. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. I've worked with guys on heroin before that. It's not like ideal, obviously, but you know, it's not, I can get the job done.

Yeah, my dad did it for like 30 years. Yeah. You know, and, you know, he did fine until he started smoking crack. And then, you know, crack is a different beast. Yeah, that's what my, I used to, this guy, I would ride around with him all the time in his truck and he would try to literally like get me to do heroin. He'd be like, bro, you gotta. And my other friend explained it to me that it's really one of those things where when you start doing heroin, you're going to, you start to evangelize it because you want people underneath you. Exactly. So then you can start selling it out.

yeah we'd work you a little time you'd be like bro man you're like you'd be having such a fun time and i'm like it's like noon he's just sweating profusely driving around i'm like man i think i'm right he's like dude you can eat like you're not gonna lose your appetite you'll just party you'll have a day to be awesome i'm like and meanwhile i like literally picked him up from his house or like met him at his house he was actually the one driving which is funny enough but it was just like him his babes is on a mattress on the ground he also he was just like

She was active in the family business, obviously. She was like selling herself. Yeah. So all this stuff's being proposed to me. He's like, bro, I'm telling you, it's a good time. I was like, I'm good, man. I mean, it is a good time when you're on heroin. Yeah. And then you wake and then the heroin wears off and it's like the worst time. Yeah, true. And then your life becomes this.

every day it's like you do heroin and you're like, I have 12 hours until I'm having diarrhea. And like really sick from heroin. That's not far off. Exactly. But it's like this... Unless you're putting heroin on the food in the airport, Steve. I think I have the same thing. I think I might be dosing me right now.

But it's like a full-time job and it's just, it's actually kind of cool. Cause you like have this one singular goal and it's like, I just have to like steal shit and get heroin. And then it's like, I have to steal shit and get heroin again. And then the next thing, you know, like six months have passed and, you know, and, uh, but that second that the second something doesn't link up and you like, you know, you, you show up at the CVS and someone already stole all the shit and,

And you're getting dope sick and everything. Because once you get too far into dope sickness, you're too dope sick to hustle up money. And it's like this, it's a crazy like a treadmill that you have to just run every day. Yeah. That's why they say a lot of people who get clean do like very, very well in sales and all like get clean and they hit sales jobs and they just crush it.

Yeah, yeah. That's a big thing in Florida. Like get off heroin, start selling like scam vacations to Canadians or something. Yeah. Someone I know was down there getting clean in Florida and he was like, if you ever get a bill collector or anything, just be like, how's it going, man? You clean. How many days you got? How many days you got?

He's had a lot of people that call you up on like telemarketers down in Florida, like outside of rehab. I did it. Yeah. My dad got sober in Florida. So I went out to Florida and lived in a halfway house with him. And I tried doing the sales job. I left both times at like noon. Yeah. I just, I like labor. I like doing labor. Telemarketing is crazy. I've tried my hand at it as well. And it's,

I can't explain. It's just the weirdest fucking job. There's this little thing and like managers are listening in on your call. I would be intensely nervous. Like, oh, hey. I know there's a guy listening. I'm like, fuck. And they give you a script and it's like, I know how to talk. Let me just talk to this guy. And they're like, no, no, you got to read. And they're like listening on your headset and they're like, read the fucking script. I wrote the script. Just read the script. The script is so bad, dude. How do they not know that it's like the worst possible?

thing. Yeah, but there's guys that are just making like five grand a week doing it. I know. You know, it's crazy. Yeah, that is. There were the office big dogs. I did like tech cyber, I don't know what it was. It was like selling

like servers and shit yeah and there were guys that were absolutely coining it in there yeah they just had they could sit there and like hold it like out of a movie they're like hold a ball and be like let me tell you about the new Pentium 4 and I was like fuck dude yeah I prefer getting paid like nine dollars an hour and just like doing demo yeah with like no one that speaks English yeah it is nice actually yeah

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That's gone. Comedy Connection, East Providence, Rhode Island. That is September 12th to September 14th. Please go. I think that'll sell out, but let's have fun there. Cleveland, Ohio. I'll be at the Hilarities Comedy Club from October 10th to October 12th. And then Boston. I'll be at the Wilbur. 1018. One night, only two shows. Come on. That's actually poised to sell out any minute now. Any day now, really.

Uh, also Milwaukee. I'll be at the improv 1024 to 1026. And these guns are big guys. Please come to these ones. God damn it. Please. Washington DC area, Virginia. I'll be at the Capitol one hall in Tyson's Virginia on November 15th. And then the next day I'll be at the New York comedy festival town hall, New York city, the state of New York, New York city, New York.

That's 1116. Guys, please come. Then I'll have a bunch of other dates coming up. Love you. Bye. It does have a freeing effect on the mind when you're doing that. When you're just knocking down walls, carrying heavy stuff. At the end of the day, you're tired. You lay down. Yeah. That's what I did in Florida. I just did grunt manual labor with Cubans and Nicaraguans. Yeah, this one guy had a tool chest that said, work will set you free.

Which is what Auschwitz said on Auschwitz. I don't think he was aware of that. But I was like, damn, work does set you free. True. And I don't know. I recommend if you're trying to get off opiates or drugs, just go do manual labor. I mean, it really helped me. Yeah, I can see that. I don't do it anymore, but...

I mean, it just makes the clock spin. You're just trying to make the clock spin at first, you know? Yeah, to get time. Get through the time, yeah. Yeah, that was another thing, too, I found kind of striking when you were like, you would get clean, you'd be like, all right, everything's going well, then there'd be a part of your brain where you're like, I'm doing heroin. I'm definitely doing it again. It's just a matter of time and be like, all right, I'm going to make it to this city. I'm not going to stop. I'm going to stop over here. That's the weirdest part of the whole thing when it's like,

It's like a hard thing for people to wrap their head around because it's like you can have the experience of things going like as south as possible, you know, and like your immediate relationships get thrown off all this stuff. You get clean.

And the thing that sucks about addiction is that thing where you're like, I don't want to do this. But there's genuinely a part of you that's just like, fuck, whatever. Yeah, you can't control that. It's hard to explain to anybody else. And it's such a weird part of ourselves that people don't really know what to do with. Like, even like experts are like, I don't know.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, if you're following your own will and you're a drug addict, you are going to do heroin, whether it takes you two days or a week or 30 days, five years, like you're just going to, you're just going to do heroin. And, and, uh, you know, your life, you know, my life would get pretty good. I'd like buy like a $1,200 car and like get a little job and then be like, okay, I'm moving. And I drove from Florida to Oakland one time and like Scott, my apartment set up and everything. And then I was like, I'm going to fucking stay clean. And then I hit like new Orleans and I was like, I'm going to go check out, you know, what's going on. And you're like,

i wonder if like you like talk to a kid at a gas station you're like is there heroin here like just out of curiosity you know and then uh there better be heroin here but uh i mean obviously this you know i know this is a catholic podcast you know i i got spiritual you know that's good i've heard i've heard that is for real the thing that really helps man yeah yeah and people don't want to hear that but uh sorry like that's what you know that's what helped me it's not like it's a non-denominational thing but like i just like had to give it up you know and uh

- Yeah, man, I believe in God and I don't wanna get weird or anything about God or anything, but like, you know, I believe in something, you have to believe in something bigger than yourself is like watching over you and you have to kind of accept, it's actually like a humility thing. It's like when I make, when I'm in charge and I make decisions, like I end up in a bathtub in Chinatown, like missing my toe or some shit and like a needle in my arm and like that is where I literally end up. And so I can't make decisions like when, so you just kind of like try to align your will with God's will and-

listen, man, I'm sitting across the table from Matt McCusker right now. And like, I was literally a homeless guy on Skid Row, you know? So like, you know, obviously, yeah, it's right. I'll make ways. Paul's like, dude, it's so fucking cool. I've never got one of these guys. No,

No, I figure like a lot of people, you know, we see these guys, like people want to hear these guys. You know, I'm a heroin guy. Like I'm a guy like, you know, so. That is crazy if you think about it though. No, dude, if you were to sit there, you drive past Skid Row and you're like, oh, there's a fucking published author, right? You know, it's like you don't think of it at all. Yeah. It is crazy. I do think it is regrettable that that's just the taboo of our time. Religion, taboo of our time. Yeah. Back in the Victorian times, you couldn't talk about sex. You could talk about religion. Now you can be like.

You know, whatever. You can talk, you can be like, my daughter does OnlyFans. I'm very proud of her. Yeah. But you can't talk about God. I think their health teacher now in school actually shows their dick to the class. I don't know how they do it. It's like, it's so weird. And if you bring up religion, it's like. Yeah, you can't do it. I do think that, that's how AA was founded. It was, I think the guy Bill was the dude's name. Yeah, Bill. He actually met with Carl Jung back when, you know, whatever. And Carl Jung was the guy who was like, bro, if you don't come up with some sort of

spiritual connection or come up with some sort of a connection to, you know, a reality beyond yourself or whatever, a transpersonal reality. You're doomed. It's like if you hit, you know, if you're over 40, that was Carl Young's big thing. He's like, if you hit 40 and you don't come up with some...

A worldview that doesn't have you at the absolute center of the universe. If you can somehow like shift it up to where there's actually something way beyond yourself and kind of humble yourself. Yeah. He's like, the rest of your life will be way easier if you don't. It's just all going to fall apart. And here I go. Oh, shit. Yeah, that's like the key for everybody. I mean, especially in the, you know, it works for drug addicts. I think it would work for everybody. It does. I genuinely think it does. I had a similar thing.

Cause I was, I grew up Catholic and you know, it was like, you, you like, you get out and you're like, church is bullshit. It's not the real body of Christ. They figured it out. And you know, and you know, all of a sudden your life starts to fall apart and like, you know, it can be bigger or lesser ways. And you're like, same thing. You're like, I've been in charge of the program here. Results are less than spectacular. Let me try to reorient myself as you know, again, cause it reorients you more towards like service rather than like trying to self aggrandize and blah, blah, blah. And, uh,

Right now I'm doing a project where I'm just studying a bunch of autobiographies and I'm trying to figure out like if there is, I guess, I don't know what to call it. I guess it would be like circumstantial proof or whatever, just like a anecdotal of like worldviews where it's like, you know, me at the center of the world, they call it, it's like express self is like a type of value system where it's like,

I get what I want at the end of the day. At the end of the day, you know, I'm the boss. And there's a lot of people that's the value system. Then there's the sacrifice self value system, which is like, there's something greater than me. I have to live by, you know, some sort of rules that I don't necessarily set. And I'm trying to like look at all these autobiographies and try to see like, all right, who lives is like more of an express self type, who lives as the sacrifice self. And then after reading, hopefully like 50 or 100 autobiographies being like, all right, here's how these people

ended up basically and everyone probably has like a bit of a mix yeah but i i do i think that's kind of crazy how that is be a thing where it's like i don't want to get weird but i believe in god and it's like it's not that weird people have been doing it since the beginning of like human consciousness yeah so and i what you're saying people get worried too it's like oh man like uh you know i don't want to come off as like a religious nut because it is i get it people like that people can really hammer that home to the point where it's like all right but

Yeah, I'm glad for you. I think that's a good thing. And it's, you know, it's one of those things where it's like, it's hard to monetize where it's like, well, you know, it's easier to set up like, well, we got to figure out with like pills, this, that and this. It's like, well, you can also have a spiritual experience. And they're like, I don't know. I'm not saying it's like a big conspiracy, but like, well, it's an unfortunate thing of our time when it's such a simple. So, I mean, it's not a simple solution, obviously, but it's one of those things where it's like.

I don't know. I think it's regrettable that people are so like, oh, when you're, you know, you, I can say it's like one of those things that can help your life so tremendously. If you find something, you know, tailored for yourself, you don't have to like sever off your rational mind. You just have to like, you know, maybe pluck a little chunk out of it. Yeah.

Yeah. Just kind of keep the rest. And it like, you know, it gives you community. It gives you a sense of like there's a bigger thing going on than just what's in my head and like what I think this person thinks about me at the office. And like, you know, drug addicts are the most like self-obsessive, selfish people, really. I

I mean, I know that's not, you know, that's, that's not like a kind thing to say about these people that are out on the streets, but like I was out on the streets and like, all you give a fuck about is yourself. And, uh, whenever I only give a fuck about myself, I end up laying in a, in the gutter. I mean, that's just what happens. So like, and I know that's really hard to say as a guy that like, I literally wrote a book about my life. Like how self-obsessive could you get? I mean, that's as self-obsessive as you can get really, but only great men write autobiographies. So don't, don't,

Yeah. But, but you know, if you read the book, it's basically me writing about how retarded I am. So it's like, sure. It's like a, it's about me, but it's about how much of a piece of shit I am really. So hopefully that like, there's a sense of humility around it, you know? No, I think you did a great job and it really is. It's one of those things where it's like, you know, there, whether it's drug addiction or just like,

Say you're not addicted to drugs. That same line of thought is just not as pronounced because it's like if you're addicted to heroin and meth, it's like, yeah, you're crashing your car. You're going to jail. So everyone's easily like, yep, you're fucking up. But if you're running a similar – I think most people are very, very self – it's just the way we're designed. It's not like a value or like a character flaw. It's just the way we're kind of designed that I think kind of slowly erodes through a series of repeated and larger failures in life where it's like –

Say I didn't do heroin or meth or anything, but I've had definitely decisions blow up in my face that weren't like my whole family, like, God damn, that guy needs to go away for a while. But it was enough for me to be like, well, that fucking all went up in smoking. You're like, God damn it. It was that big master of the universe syndrome where you're like, I got to figure it out. When I would sell weed and all this stuff, I would be smoking weed all day, driving around with 30 pounds of weed in my trunk, like, dude, I'm the master of the fucking...

A bunch of my relationships fell apart. I was like, I'm kind of a fucking loser. I thought I was a man. Yeah. So that can happen, man, when you're just kind of like, dude, I don't have to listen to anybody. I'm going to do anything anyone says. And it's like, when you're young, it's very intoxicating to be in that. And then you're like...

oh there's this whole other part of life that has to go and like you know even if you don't want a family it's like being involved in your community blah blah blah yeah if you get kind of like self-insulated it's easy to have like the wheels come off and it is a funny thing when you're like i'm the boss here and it's just your life just dilapidates and you're like yeah and every problem you like this is a big thing like you know the guy that's like 45 that just like fucks his life up every year and it's always like someone else's fault yeah so like that's a big thing about addiction and um

where it's like you're just constantly blaming everyone. You're at the center of the universe and you're just blaming everyone around you for like all your problems. So that's another thing with spirituality is like, I don't know, it just helped me like take like almost like an overhead view of my life and just be like, hold on, you're like the common denominator of all this shit. Like potentially you are the cause of these problems. Like you are responsible for these problems. And when you kind of like-

are like, okay, well, it just goes back to like, okay, well then I'm not running the show. I'm gonna let someone else run the show. And like, you know, since I, you know, I was like a laborer on and off, either I was homeless or I was like in a halfway house doing like construction for nine bucks an hour. And, you know, the second I kind of like started changing my life and living this way and having some faith,

you know, like I have a career, I have my family back, I'm fucking doing a podcast. Like, I mean, it's just, you know, life really just starts to take off. And right when I finally admitted, like, you are the piece of shit that is causing all these problems and like, you have to have like a complete psychic change. And, you know, I don't think, you know, a lot of people that are hardcore drug addicts, like,

If they don't have that psychic change, like it's, it's not, it's not really when it's not really, if it's like, when are you going to go back to that life? Yeah. You know, you've got to change. The blame's a big one. I've noticed that with people where they're like, dude, you just fuck it. And you're like, that's your problem right now? This dude's being a dickhead to you? Like I could name 25 other things, dude. Yeah. Or like blaming the police. Like I blame, I was so pissed at the, like the police set me up. I sold drugs to an undercover cop and like, I got a felony and like I had to go to jail and.

It like kind of fucked like the next couple of years of my life up and I was so fucking pissed at the police.

And then I got sober and I like kind of changed everything. And I was like, you sold drugs to a fucking, you sold fake, you stole Tylenol from a CVS, said they were Norcos, sold them to a cop. Like you're retarded. You shouldn't have done that. Kind of bunky. I always thought if you sell fake drugs, you don't get in as much trouble. I think probably, but I'm like, I was like on hair. I was like, get me out of here. Like I'll, I'll plead anything. Like just get me out of here. And like, I had a public defender that was probably on methadone and he was like, yo, you're fucked man. Cause,

Because like a lot of people like drug addicts that have like rich family or like family that will support them, like we'll get them that lawyer and which almost just kicks the can down the road. Yeah. So like I called my dad and he was like,

you know, stay in jail. Like I was like, can I get a, can you get me a lawyer? And he was like, fuck no, I'm not getting a lawyer. And it'll be good for you to get, get like, you need to be contained. Yeah. And then actually like when I became homeless, like I was homeless, I did like a year run on Skid Row and I would like call my dad and he was like, go to fucking jail, like do whatever you can to go to jail. Like you need to go to, like my dad went to jail. That's how he like finally got sober. So I got so blessed and you know, got to fucking go to jail and

But jail did not like get me sober. Jail. Yeah. Jail like physically removed me from heroin. I never got physically addicted to heroin ever again, but I still like would relapse for like a few days here and there. And so like jail is not the ultimate solution, but it was like a kick in the ass and sort of like scared the fuck out of me. Like, you know, I was around a lot of people where I was like,

damn you're gonna like become you're gonna be like a jail guy yeah you'd be like a prison guy and like can you be a prison guy like you're not that big you're not that tough like yeah can you do it how bad does it hurt in prison of just like no babes at all that's the thing that would really fuck me up dude well i was i was on heroin it's a fair question well i was really thinking about the babes well i was on heroin for so long so when you're on heroin you have like no you're like asexual like completely and then when you come off heroin you're like

you like come in your pants like immediately if someone like blows in your direction like yeah yeah so like you're so you get like ultra horny oh which is like jail's like the worst place to be so uh i mean it's fucking weird man it's like there's like a female guard once in a while that comes in you can smell her and everyone's like smelling you know everyone's like yeah puts their nose up and like and then people get weird people start to get like really weird where they're like

It's like, you're not allowed to horseplay in there. You're not allowed to do like any gay shit or like do any gay voices or anything like that or like fuck around. But there's guys that have that like twinkle in their eye. That would kill me, bro. I'd be like, so fucking gay for you, bro. Well, that's like the white, obviously white guy humor is like, let's pretend we're gay. Yeah. And like Mexicans run the jail. So they're just like, no gay shit. So you have to be like, the white guys are like, none of that gay shit. Like in front of, like we got to impress the Mexicans, obviously. Yeah.

Like, obviously we want, we all want to like do the gay voice. Like we're in fucking jail with a bunch of guys. Like, and, and, but like the Mexicans will call us gay. Like we can't do that. Yeah. It's a trouble. Yeah. And like, obviously the black guys are like, no gay, like they're like number one, like, you know, no gay shit for sure. And, uh, so it's really sucks for white guys in there. You can't fuck around and pretend to be gay at all. You can't fuck around and you can't, you know, you know, you can't take the towel and like never speed. Yeah.

I never thought about that. It's really hard on white guys in there, man. It's so funny to have some dude discover his swastikas like, and lastly, can't fuck around about gay stuff. And then occasionally you do have your all-white meeting in the shower area where it's all white guys and it's like, you can let off some steam and pretend you're gay for like 10 seconds. Yeah.

But it is funny because like the Mexicans just run everything and the white guys are allied with the Mexicans. I've heard that, yeah. So it's like we cannot, if we lose this allyship, like we are fucked. So like we have to, so the Mexicans are like, you guys got to work out every day for an hour. So it's every day there's like white guys like half-assedly like doing jumping jacks and shit. And like making sure the Mexicans are like watching. You're like, you know, I'm doing them. Are they pumping iron pretty hard there in the jail? No, but they're like lifting each other, which is kind of gay. You know, they're like...

Yeah. If there's like a tiny Mexican guy, it's like, okay, obviously he's like for biceps, you know? And like, you have to like use weird shit. You like get under the bunk bed and you're like, you can do like bench with like a, like look at like two Mexican guys on the, on the bunk bed. And then you're like doing like, okay, throw another Mexican guy on there. And you're like, yeah, you just gotta, yeah. You gotta squat Danny Trejo. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

So you get really creative. You get like bad. Sometimes you get a trash bag. You fill it up with water. You can do like curls with them. Yeah. So is it like when the Mexican guys being bicep curled, does he have like a straight face? Like, yeah. Cause he's looking like hard as fuck. Yeah. You have to look super hard. Curled. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, there's a lot. There's a lot of like, get on my back and like, I'm going to do squats. Yeah. Yeah. Like, um,

Yeah, there's a lot for a place where you're not allowed to pretend to be gay. There's like a lot of gay shit going on. And obviously like you're jerking off in a room with like 100 guys at some point and you're not allowed to jerk off.

But it's kind of a don't, it's like don't ask, don't tell situation. - Be a gentleman about it. Don't be like, "Oh, fuck!" - Like a guy did, like a guy used to buy heroin from who I actually was in, he came into the jail and I was like, "What's up, man?" And I was like, "Do you have any heroin?" And he was like, "No, I'm in jail." But he got caught jerking off. He was like a seven-year-old black dude, super cool guy, but they rolled him up. They were like, "No jerking off."

You know, he was, he did it. He tried to be polite. He did it like 5am, but like the early birds woke up and they caught him jerking off. So fuck, that sucks. I'd rather be caught by my parents a hundred times than have, be in jail and have, he was like, you're jerking off motherfucker. No, I did it. It's like the scariest. And obviously, you know, you've jerked off before you realize like,

you know when you're a kid and like you're like you're listening for your brothers and sisters and shit and you're like so this is like scarier because if someone hears you like they could stab you you know oh my god not really i mean everyone knows like you got to do it so you just do it in the middle of the night when you wake up and like no one really you know but every night if you ever wake up you hear like the jingle of like many men quietly masturbating it's like the roar of the ocean yeah exactly and it kind of like puts yeah it helps you sleep and everything that's crazy dude

I never thought about that aspect of it. I mean, obviously, I figured, I thought you could just hang your sheets over your bed and be like, I'm about to jerk off, bro. No, because there's a man on your bunk. So unless you have an arrangement with him or something, I don't... Listen, I'm not Mr. Prison. I'm not Mr. Jail. I've been to jail. It could be different in other dorms, but like...

No, it makes sense. Like my dorm, like it was kind of like a, you can't even show your dick unless you're in the shower. Like if you got, that was like an instant boobop. Like if you, like if your dick popped out like in the dorm. Yeah, that makes sense. Or if you like talked about dicks or just like, you know, you just, but in the shower, obviously you're all naked. You're showering together looking at everyone's dicks. You can do whatever. Yeah. Yeah. No talking dicks, bro. No, no, you can't talk about dicks because. What do you do with morning wood in jail?

Oh my God. It's just like, yeah, man, it's tough. You gotta just lay there, you know? And sometimes you got to, it's like, cause I was in the school dorm where I got to go to school. So like, like, I guess I'm going to be late to school, you know? Cause I can't have someone look, see my, see my dick. Yeah. If you had a hard dick. Yeah. So bro, the fuck bro. Yeah. And, uh, and then like meth will come in sometimes, which like makes everyone horny and, and gay, to be honest. So like that, that becomes pretty tough. Cause like people are tweaked out and,

you know, damn. Yeah. Yeah. It's one of those things. It's a, that is tough. I do understand going there and getting clean, but yeah, I think you're right. There is an extra layer. And I feel like there could be, correct me if I'm wrong. I feel like there could be a more nuanced approach in jail. Once you have those guys as a captive audience, like how's the programming? Cause I know there's like TC, like therapeutic community and all that stuff. Yeah. Did you have that when you were in there? Well, there's like AA meetings that come in and we had actually had like meditation classes, but you go there and like,

half the guys like are think it's like gay they're like this is gay and then they like make noises and shit while you're trying to meditate and there's like I was like trying to do it what kind of noises do they make you know like kumbaya and like like mocking a lady came in to jail to teach a bunch of guys that like might murder her yoga and like meditation and like you're fucking being an asshole and they're like gay

Yeah. So like, I mean, listen, there's a lot of low IQ people in jail, but, uh, but yeah, like obviously there could be a better approach. I was in there probably 99% of the people I interacted with were either drug addicts or alcoholics. This is not a good system. This is not working. Like clearly this is a drug problem. Even like the violent criminals. It's like,

A lot of them were just on meth or like drunk and like beat the shit out of their wife or something. So, you know, there's like foundational issues of mostly like addiction and alcoholism. So like, yeah, we should address. And that doesn't mean like, hey, you shot a guy in the head because and you were on meth. Like, sure, we're going to put you into a therapeutic program. Like, you know, if you're violent, you got to probably do some time. But like, you know, there should be. I was really surprised because like one day they just let you out.

And it's like, what the fuck do you think I'm going to do? Yeah. I'm just out now. Like, and it's like right by Skid Row and they let you out at like 2 a.m. And, you know, of course I'm going to go do heroin and smoke crack, you know? So like it, of course there's like, there has to be a better approach, but like, you know, there was like the 2020 stuff where like the decriminalization of crime basically. And like,

That's not working. Just being like, we're just not going to send people to jail for doing violent crime. That's not really a good approach. They're walking that back pretty hard right now. We're hitting Bill Clinton here. Tough on crime Democrats are in our near future. At the DNC, they were like, Kamala was a tough prosecutor. Kamala was a tough prosecutor. I'm from Oakland, California, where she was the DA of San Francisco, and she was fucking...

too hard i mean she was like sending parents to jail for like if their kids miss school and shit damn uh yeah she was hard man but uh clearly like they're doing this like really quick 180 like this bitch will put you in jail like vote for her and like i don't think it's gonna work i mean we see what's going on like i don't you can't do that quick of a 180 on that shit but uh yeah well no she was chill she did she was hard i think then she was like i'm gonna chill yeah then she got really chill i guess but now she might flip back and be like look

Well, I don't think she has like, I don't think she has like a creed or like a, you know, she just, it was really hot at the time to like be super hard ass, you know, tough on crime. Like, you know, the nineties, uh, the Clinton, you know, the crime bill and all that. So she just was kind of going with the times and then the times change, you know, and then it goes to like, okay, I'm going to bail people out for like burning down Minneapolis. So I actually, I, you know, I know you were in Portland. I actually moved to Portland in June, 2020. Yeah.

oh god not a great month to move to portland yeah what happened because i i kept thinking that chas was in portland that's yeah that was seattle kind of fucked me up that was my whole five minutes opening coming out i was like i'm gonna make fun of these guys forget having like lesbians take control of their city for six months well no chas was like all of downtown portland and i had a black girlfriend so they set it up like that yeah and i went there with a black girlfriend not a weird month to move there with a black girlfriend to portland and her dad was like

don't i don't you can't take my daughter to port like i don't want her around all those crazy white people burning down the city it was it was a crazy time but portland's cool man portland i liked it so you went there though and it was like because people right now are like damn is it like still fucked up and i was like no no it was fine it was fine but it was like it was as intense as the jazz there in 2020 it was fucking intense it was intense like spiritually like everyone was just like i was running into people i like left because there was too many like guys that like

dressed like security guards that were like, I'm they, them, like, you got to call me they. And I was like, you look like a dude, you know, like it's really hard for me to do that. There was just a lot of like, it was just really hard like that. And like, you know, I, people were just not chill at all. And it got, it went super far. And then now there's kind of like an overcorrection thing.

And it's kind of chill now, I think. And honestly, you guys play a big role. I appreciate it. I don't want to sound insane right now, but podcasts like yours, you guys kind of like...

brought about this like spiritual awakening of like hey we just have to like we can say retarded like we can you know we can be cool you know and uh i think comedy really is like saving america this is gonna sound stupid but like i appreciate that man it's well the problem i saw with a lot of the stuff was like you're at college you're trying to get pussy exactly girls are like on this wild shit of like you know pretty much they're doing it for instagram and then it's like you know maybe they genuinely believe i shouldn't say like it's all fake but it's like

They're doing a thing to appease some other force. This is a giant force in your life. And you're like, yeah, I'm a fucking they them. And it's like, I'm trying to get some fucking pussy. I'm not trying to get frozen out or labeled as like, you're like a boomer or whatever people say. No, everything comes down to, I'm trying to get pussy. Cause I've realized that in my head, like every decision I've ever, like if there was no pussy, like I wouldn't shower. Like I would, I would shower once a week or something, you know, like there's just every decision that a man makes clearly comes down to that. So like, yeah, there was just a lot of that. And there was a lot of like, even when like, you

You know, like when you guys, I was listening to your podcast and I was like, can I even tell people that I'm listening to this shit? Like after the Shane shit. And then now it's like to get pussy, you're like, I listen to the Matt and Shane podcast. Girls are there. There's girls. The girlfriends have come and wives are coming to our shows. Girlfriends have come. Yeah. Yeah. There was a weird, that was a weird thing. I think, I don't know what it was, man. Cause everyone thought they were doing like the right thing. They're like, yeah, I'm on the right side of history now. And it's like the one thing I will give the like wild ass SJWs from, you know, they did all that stuff for a long time.

They did, you know, and you can hate this, but they did raise a lot of issues into the public consciousness. They kind of really like cracked everyone's head open with a hammer and they're like, think about this. And everyone's like, fuck you guys. I'm not thinking about this. So they did do, you know, if you look back at like the last few years, it's like people are a lot more kind of like...

the average person is way more forward thinking than they were, you know, in like the nineties and, you know, early 2000s. So they did put a lot of like, you know, things into people's heads. Like, you know, if you're black, it's like kind of weird and way different than being white and be like, shut up and get a job. You bought like, it's like that now people have, I think from all that stuff have a more kind of nuanced approach to reality with like social issues. Yeah. But they're like what they say to do about it. There are solutions are so bad.

Their solutions are really bad and really hurting the people they're trying to help. Certainly like, listen, it's really good that we're thinking about these things. And, and, uh, you know, I kind of already did cause I'd been to jail and I was noticing patterns. I was like, damn, like, you know, I went to jail for like five days when I sold that Percocet, uh, to the cop or whatever. And my friend Toning Taylor named Toning, very odd name, but I was in a midnight mission with him. He did like five years for like the same shit. And he was a black guy. And I was like, God damn, like,

And he was like, what? And he was a black Israelite dude. So he liked me because I'm half Jewish. And, you know, we'd talk. We'd have Jew talk, you know? Yeah. And I was like, damn. He really opened my eyes to some shit. I was like, god damn, man. Yeah, they get crushed. Black dudes get crushed pretty hard. Yeah. But it's harder for us once we get there because we can't do gay stuff. It's kind of the inverse of real life. Yeah. Dude, my friend was in one of those like kind of –

I don't know. I've never seen anything like this, but it wasn't... So it was technically that part of it was a halfway house. The other part were for, like, repeat offens... People who violated parole. It was just this giant warehouse in Philly, and you would just go to this warehouse and just live in these rooms of, like, 40 dudes. And it wasn't... It was technically a jail, but it wasn't any... Like, you didn't go to, like, the penitentiary. It was just, like, this holding thing specifically for parole violators if they had to do, like, six months or something. Yeah. And he said it was run... The whole place...

was just run by like there was uh there's like these black muslim ladies in charge of it and he was like dude for real i don't want to cry racism but he's like it's so hard to be white in this place he's like you just like you could just like i could bring him in clothes and stuff i could bring him in anything really cigarettes all this stuff i didn't give it to a track in a trash bag to this black muslim lady she would go through and he was like dude the drugs here are rampant because you can just stitch heroin into like the waistband of sweatpants

And they're just like, they're just running amok in here where it's like there's drugs are being filled. Everyone's just making money off this place. Yeah. But he was like, and then you just get sent here against your will. He's like, you're trying to get clean. He's like, it's just party time. Yeah. So black Muslim ladies seem to run the Philly airport. Yeah. I was at the Philly airport like a week ago. Yeah. They got a nice stronghold. No, but they were killing it. They like got me a refund on my flight and shit. So yeah, dude, they're fucking sweet. It's funny. Cause if you're like, if you're like a white dude just kicking around, I always assume like,

black muslim ladies don't like white people you just you see the gear and you're like i could see them not being a huge fan of me yeah but yeah when you get to know them they're very sweet yeah they're chill they're very cool yeah yeah another thing about the whole like awakening thing was like my felony there was some real criminal justice reform where like i i actually am not a felon anymore oh that's cool like they kind of did you know and that makes sense like that's good like hey i've behaved for seven years like

Can we get rid of the felony? Seven years is a good number too. Yeah, it's a jubilee. Yeah, exactly. It's a Jewish jubilee. Yeah, so I was like, can I get a job at Walmart finally? Can I not be a felon? So good shit like that happened. But then there was criminal justice reform went a little too far where it was like you can just bonk ladies on the head with a bat and not go to jail. That's not good. Well, no one wanted to be the guy locking people up. It wasn't politically good. Not politically good. But I guess now it is.

It's because now you can become the big hero. Because before, we had a guy. Who the fuck was he? Larry Krasner, the DA in Philly. He was like... Bad. Yeah, they called him Let Him Go Larry. And I knew... Back then, I knew dudes were selling weed and stuff. He's like, oh, Let Him Go Larry. Dude, we love Larry Krasner. It's the wrong guy. It's being like, this guy rules. But yeah, it's like...

It becomes like if you're a DA and you have political aspirations and it becomes like not politically cool to lock people up, you're like, let's just not lock people up for now. And the city completely goes into disarray because you kind of maybe want to become like a congressperson. Yeah, yeah. It's like, yeah, you can't really, you know, people out here doing that's the thing. Isn't it like in jail? It's like 90 percent of the crimes are committed by like literally like.

five percent of the population across like race and all that stuff yeah they say that yeah and shoplifting especially yeah yeah so it's like yeah snatch these people up and if they're on drugs it's like okay let's figure out a situation where we maybe mandate them to a long-term treatment center but we have to like really like look at this like hey we're not just like trying to like check boxes here like we're really trying to like change this person's life and like give them a life worth living and like we should really like

I needed purpose. I was a finished carpenter. So eventually I got out and I had a job that not only paid a decent wage, but it gave me fulfillment. And I was like, I'm building things. I'm helping people. I'm making houses beautiful and all that. We need to find what people are passionate about, what they can excel at, and really set them up for a life where it's like, hey, you can afford a one bedroom apartment right out of here. You can feel good about it. It's like,

you're not just gonna go get a job at Chipotle and wanna kill yourself. And then like, you know, so-

We just have to really – I mean this is like a spiritual problem that is plaguing America. Like if you go to any city – like I live in Oakland, California, and it's like it's totally fucked up. Yeah, I agree. And it is sad too when you take all these people in jail and it's scary. They all like tattoos and like career criminals. But I do believe at the root of it it's just like there was a – they were once a kid in a very loveless environment. And obviously like there's – that's like a continuum obviously. There's some people who like got it, but there was like other bad stuff mixed in. But then there's people who like –

Just never, ever in their life had anybody care about them at all. Yeah. And I think that's the real root issue when you're dealing with people like jail, anything really. It's like, dude, how the fuck? And you're going to try to correct that in an environment that you obviously need to take precautions for society. But it's really sad. It's one of those things that's very, very sad. And I think there is a... Hopefully we'll figure it out. Hopefully we'll figure it out. Because you can't go too kumbaya and be like...

just give him a guitar and send him out there. He just banged someone in the head with a hammer. You're like, God damn it. Yeah. But we're like, we're doing this thing where like, we're just giving people like apartments in San Francisco and then they're on fentanyl. So they just die in their apartment immediately. So it's like, we can't really do that. I understand the argument, like homeless, what's the solution home, like give them home, you know? And it's like, okay, but if you're addicted to fentanyl, you're just going to like be alone and OD on fentanyl. So,

Yeah, man, there has to be like a more comprehensive approach. And like, you know, people are like, oh, it's going to cost so much money. And it's like we're like San Francisco spends over a billion dollars a year on homelessness and it's just gotten worse and worse and worse. So it's like I don't think money is the issue. Like we have the money. We just have to like redirect it into money.

a way that is actually productive, but it's right now it's so set up to just like, you can just launder so much money if you start a nonprofit, you know, it's so easy to start a nonprofit. It's like, I hand out crack pipes, give me, you know, a $2 million contract. It's, you know, you just have to rethink all this shit. The nonprofits are, I didn't realize how, because I worked at one before when I was in social work school and I was like, this is like, and it wasn't like,

out and out like a total scam but it was kind of like dude you guys can tighten this thing up it becomes incentivized to be like just have someone show up sign a box it's like yeah but you could have like five appointments and one to make this guy's life easier like we got 200 bucks every time yeah

You dirty motherfucker. Yeah, but it's... Yeah, I don't know. I remain hopeful. I think something will happen. But it is weird. This is the most... Is this like the most homeless people we've ever had? Like... I'd imagine. Historically? Because I know there was always homeless people, but now it's like you get out of cities and you're like, dude, this is... It's like younger people just...

hit the rails, dude. And it's like, you see guys in like the thirties or twenties and you're like, bro, like what the fuck, man? Yeah. I think, I think there is something to it, man. There's that like spiritual malaise where it's like, there's no point to anything. What's the point? I'm never going to be, you know, X, Y, and Z. And like, nobody has that, um,

It's hard to find like the joy in a, like, you know, a relatively simple life. Like you were saying, like I'm doing, I can go, I can take pride in my work. I can do my thing. Now there's just, it's just like everyone's so atomized. There's not like, oh, I'm part of a nice community. I'm part of everything. It's just all fun. Like their own individual journey that, you know, typically when you're just by yourself, it just leads to like intense frustration and despair anyway. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lack of hope.

Yeah. What's this? Oh, yeah. It rose 12% from 2022 to 2023. That's pretty bad, right? That's pretty bad. That's a gigantic leap. It rose 64% in San Francisco from the year 2016 to 2022. And at the same time, spending on homelessness increased by 500%.

Yeah, it's crazy, man. Like, you know, and there's no hope. You know, it's like we live in a time when it's like you can work really hard. You can get that raise. You can get that promotion. And it's like you're still not buying a house. Like, I know that's just like you can't start a family. People aren't getting married. People aren't having kids like. Yeah, it's tough. Hopefully we come out of this. Hopefully whoever wins the presidency, either one of them just makes this shit better. Yeah. Will they do it? Probably not. Yeah, definitely. Yeah.

But we definitely, definitely. I tell everyone, buy, buy your book. Your book's awesome, dude. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The book's got a good smile. If you can't afford it, hit me up. I'll send you a copy or I'll send you like a PDF.

I am not a big reader. I know that's a surprise. I wrote a book, but I can't read. If you can't read, you're looking for the audio book. It's not here yet, but if you buy a copy of the book, it will encourage my publisher to push for the audio book, and then I'll send you a link to the audio book for free if you show me that you bought the book. So the publisher is weary about doing the audio book? They aren't weary. It's just like it's a different like –

legal setup with the contract and it's just going to take time. I don't know, but like this will, if it does good sales, they'll push for it faster. And then like, I'll send you like a limewire link to the fucking audio book or something. You know, I'll figure it out. But, uh, yeah, we're going to try, we're going to try to push that through quickly. Nice man. Yeah. Yeah. Tell him to knock it off. Tell him let's do it. Like, dude, just give me a recording time. You can record it in like 20 hours, man.

I know. I know. Yeah. Yeah. But it's like, it's just a different, you know, it's legal agent shit. You know, I don't know. Who knows? Well, dude, thank you so much for coming to this. It's an honor, man. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Yeah.