#133 John "Shrek" McPhee - The Sheriff of Baghdad
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John Shrek McPhee, welcome to the show, man. Thank you. It's been a long time coming, huh? I thought I should have been the first guest, if you ask me. I know you got hundreds of requests from people. I know. I know you had to over the years from people.

No? Yeah? Oh, yeah. We get a lot of requests. You're one of the top requests. So here you are. Makes me feel good. Here you are. Just so you know, like, probably my people were hitting you. You know what I mean? Like, why is my boy not in there? You got a lot of them. You got a lot of them. Thanks, man. But I've been hiring you up for kind of tracking you for, man, I don't know, probably...

Probably close to 10 years now. When did you get out? 11. 11? Yeah, like spring, summer, 11. Right on, yeah. I've been tracking you since you left your last job. Really? Uh-huh. What was it? Which job? I know your bosses. Oh, which ones? Ninja? Toby. Toby? You know Toby? What's his other name? Toby? Like, okay, yeah. Man, I haven't seen him in a long time. I know a lot of guys, actually. I know, I know.

Like Toby that was a contractor, now a staff? Now back to contractor. Oh, is he? Man. Beltway's rough. That guy was switched on. He's awesome. I'm sure he still is. Actually, me and him, when he was in group, he was my... We hit all the competitions. Pistols, sniper shit. We just crushed. Like, we were doing the sniper comp one time, and they're like...

The silly stage was like they had all these pictures hung at like 20 yards. So they're going to show you a picture. You had to pick it, shoot it. And then once you shot, right, the second guy had to like shoot some steel with the pistol. Kind of lame by today's standards, but it was as good as it got back then, right? And like literally the fastest time in the middle, you know, was like a minute 30. And like, so we talk about it and he's like,

He is a little slightly faster with a pistol than me, although he missed that. That wouldn't happen with me, but he missed one. But we made up the time. Anyway, yeah, they're like, they show him the picture, and he's like, fourth one from the left. I'm like, pow. He turns around. He's like, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing, bing. And then the guy's like.

12 seconds. I was like, is that good? He's like, the winner was at a minute 30. It was like, yeah, rock on. You know what I mean? And then like, yeah, we just crush these comps all the time. Great guy. Yeah, yeah. I thought he had left to...

Kind of go your route. So, yeah, he's kind of national guarding it right now, helping the guys. He's in and out of, you know, the works. Kind of trying to do it all still. Right on, man. God bless him. Yeah. Hey. Yeah, I'm at it. Well, if he's not listening to this, tell him I said hello. And if you are listening, Toby. Yeah. Hello. Yeah, what's up? What's up? Hey, what's up? I'm saying hey to the microphone like he's up there. Yeah.

Yeah. But, well, you got quite the extensive career to cover. And so we're going to hit as much of it as we possibly can.

Thank God you didn't go Air Force, huh? How different your life would be if that would have happened. Dude, I'd be a jet mechanic at the airport. You know what I mean? Maybe I'd have a nice vest on. What if I got the cone lights? You know what I mean? You don't know. I could be good at that. That's right. That's right. And then the cone lights could have spawned me dancing in the cage in gay clubs. You know what I mean? Then I'm rich. You know what I mean? Like...

It actually, that wouldn't have been bad either. Now that I think about it, that's a pretty good route. Yeah, I guess so. But quick introduction, not that you'd need one, but here we go. John Schreck-McPhee, you are a master instructor and subject matter expert, also known as the Sheriff of Baghdad or Schreck.

You are a retired U.S. Army Special Operations Sergeant Major with over 20 years of distinguished service. You've specialized in various special mission units, accumulated extensive combat experience across multiple theaters.

You are one of, if not the only one to pull off a successful solo raid in Afghanistan. Aside from the Singleton mission into Tora Bora, you've had hundreds of solo missions in Iraq and was a taxi driver in Baghdad. You also burned a lot of cars. Can't wait to get into that. My favorite pastime. If anyone's out there and got a picture of me burning cars, yo, hit me with that shit right now. Like,

Through divorces and stuff, I don't know. You know what I mean? So there's guys out there who got these picks. I want them. You are the former boss of Tim Kennedy and called one of the greatest warfighters of all time by Kennedy. Since retiring, you have been a trailblazer in video diagnostic training, analyzing shooting techniques with unparalleled precision through a specialized app. You created SOB TV,

which is the number one online platform for military law enforcement and civilians interested in leadership, gear reviews, mindset, firearms training, home defense, and military history. Your mantra is efficiency is speed and accuracy applied simultaneously with perfect technique. You realized after years in the military, you weren't the funny guy anymore and wanted to change that. So today you strive to be funny and positive again.

every day of your life. Amen. Amen. Amen. Couldn't have said it better. And you're a family man. I am. I am. Yeah. Yeah. I do a lot of things, man. Like I tell people all the time on the range, like this shooting shit is like 3% of what I could do. The other 97%, like we should talk about that. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. But I never get to showcase that because we're just on the range, you know? Well, I bet that's an eye opener for them.

I don't think I think anyone when I say that, I think most people just laugh, think I'm talking shit. But like, I'm kind of serious. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, so before we get too in the weeds and what I want to do is do a complete life story on you, starting a childhood, going through your career and into what you're doing today. But before we dive into that, we just got a couple of things to go through. One is I have a subscription account on Patreon. There are top supporters that have been with us since the beginning. It's a it's a it's just a growing, awesome community to be a part of. And one of the things that I love

give them the opportunity to do is ask each guest a question. And so... Yes! Yeah, here we go. Fan questions? I love this. Let's go. All right, so this is from Greg. Greg. What's the scariest moment you've ever been in outside of war? Scariest moment I've ever been in outside of war. Man.

I don't think that's a thing. You know what I mean? When you're a badass, you got it like that. Fear is obviously not a problem for me. I don't know. I think I was scared of a lot of stuff as a little kid. Scared of the dark, right? But I don't know if I have a fear. I have one fear, and I don't like shots.

I mean, it could be farting on a first date. I don't know what it is, you know? Shots? I don't care about that. Shots, man. Not a vaccine guy, huh? Well, I don't like anything piercing my skin, I think. I think that's the... Anything that pierces my skin and blood might come out. I'm not sure if I'm super cool with that, you know what I mean? So shots is always a big deal, you know, and...

Yeah, I've been married and, you know, like, you got to go get your shot. And I always allow somebody to administer medicine on the inside of my body. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm allowing you to do this, so let's get it. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

But shots, man, I don't f*** that at all. You know what I mean? I do. I do. Just the whole needle thing is a turn of like... And it's not painful. It's not like I'm like, oh my God, I hurt so bad. Like I do jujitsu. Grown men f***ing try to pull my head off my body every day. It's not the pain. It's the... It's the anticipation. Maybe the concept of...

you're puncturing my skin maybe and blood's coming out. I don't know, but that's, that's my, one of my, you don't like that. Roger that. Next question. This is from Alex.

Out of these 20 years of war and all the blood, sweat, and tears and heartache we all went through in this conflict, how do you feel when you found out that we were going to pull out of Afghanistan completely? Yo, if you didn't read the fine print when you went in, which said we were going to fuck this up on the way out, not shocked. No shocker. Man, we had, dude, I can't tell you how many conversations we had before we went in. This is where empires go to fuck and die.

No shock. I'm not shocked. Anybody who's shocked, check your pride a little bit and don't be more mad than your boss is when this shit goes down. Like, because the reality is, is like, I knew it was going to end poorly the day I stepped foot on that dirt. Did you really? Yeah. Who didn't?

You thought that was the first day you got there. You thought it was going to go well over there? I didn't think it was going to go well. I don't think it was going to. I mean, I'd never envisioned the withdrawal, but I will say that I am enraged at how that went down.

I mean, it's a tragedy. We'll be fighting that equipment forever. Yeah. Like that equipment just went to Iran. You know what I mean? You know the deal. We're in Iran, China, the bad actors get all our shit, one up it. And then we got to figure out how to one up them. It never ends. But the reality is, is like, this is exactly how I expected it to end my first day in combat, even though I loved every day I got rocketed and mortared. You know what I mean? Like.

I knew it would end like that. Interesting. How did you know? I mean, I'm just curious. I just felt like everyone in the team rooms knew. You know what I mean? We're getting ready to go to Afghanistan. We're training. We're waiting for somebody in the government to do something, you know, because from September to December, there's time in there to fucking get in some reading. You know what I mean? Do some training. Learn some shit. You know, read the Russian AARs. What is it? The bear over the mountain is the...

Russian book or whatever, read that shit and you'll see like we did the same as them. The only thing that we succeeded over the Russians in Afghanistan was

Cleanliness, because that's what killed the Russians. They didn't wash their hands, you know what I mean? They're out raping people, then licking their fingers. I don't know what the fuck they're doing, you know what I mean? But dirtiness, dysentery, like, that's what killed the Russians, not the Afghans. Interesting. I don't know a lot about that. But you talk a lot about military history. Maybe we should start paying attention to whatever that is.

TV show you got this. But we'll get into the weeds on that. So last thing before we get started, everybody gets a gift. Yes, I brought some for you too. Oh, I love gifts. So this is an exchange. You want me to do this first? Go ahead. Okay. Go ahead. These are the gummy... Okay, so real talk. I don't watch podcasts. All good. I have no idea what you normally talk about. I've probably caught about...

maybe 10 seconds to maybe 30 seconds a year podcast and like different clips of different people saying stuff over the years. I do know about the gummy bears. I just got one question. Is there weed in these or anything? - Do you want there to be? - No. - Well, there isn't. - Then I won't, it's candy. - It's candy. It's just candy. - Yo, so first off, this shit's gonna get crushed. Hey, hey, I got a friend. I'm not gonna name any names.

He might be with me right now. This is all he's been wanting and talking about at Machado camp. Like, man, we're going to get these gummy. Can I have some gummy bears? So I couldn't be happier with this. Thank you. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Let's see. Both of these the same? Both the same. That's it. Boom. And then there are some stickers on the bottom or something. Is there some stickers in there? Nice. Nice. Boom. Nice. Be like...

Shameless plug. You put that on your helmet. I will. I'll put it on the back of my body armor. I love it. I couldn't be happier about these gummy bears. Perfect. I was like, if there's reading, I'm like...

gummy bears with weed like I could eat the whole bag it doesn't do shit to me I don't know why so like they're worthless to me you know what I mean but candy I love candy so my inner fat kid is strong super strong okay I brung this for you there's a ton of shit in here right so have at it

So Team SOB Backpack, right? Perfect. We give these out at the members' parties and stuff. We also give out shot glasses where you can wear it around your neck so you always got it at the parties. So we give out a lot of stuff, man. Okay, so that is a cooling schmog, right? So you know schmogs, right? Wear it around your head.

I made them out of cooling material. Nice. Look, I'm on the range all the time. We talk about this, right? So it's big enough to where it'll hold enough water where if you wear it like a schmog,

I just dump like it'll hold a lot of water so it stays cool longer. You know what I mean? - Nice. - Like most cooling towels are like this big and it's like you can barely tie it around your neck and then it's like one layer and it just dries quick, right? So I just do the kind of diamond fold. I tie a small knot in it around my neck and I just dump water in the back when I'm on the range. - Perfect. - And they work great. - What else do we got in here?

Yeah, the Team SOB t-shirt. Welcome to the team. That's a good looking shirt, I gotta say. One of my favorites. Classic. Clean lines. Another one. Yeah, just in case. Well, I didn't know what size you were. Two is one and one is nine. So, yeah.

Hey, you got one where you could cut the sleeves off it, do your hero shots. You know what I mean? Cigar in your mouth. M60, like, hey, people. Oh, nice. A sling. Rifle slings, yeah. So we're on Amazon Prime now. You can get these on Prime. 100% made in America. I make this myself. I've made it myself. Basically, two-point sling, adjustable. And then I make my own QD. So you can see I have them machined.

The reason I make my own QD is the older QDs with the barrel ring, you know what I'm talking about? This crimp crimps the ball bearings in so when you pull it out, the whole thing comes out of the rifle. Once that thing's together, it'll never fail unless you break the socket or something. There's no way you can get them ball bearings out of there with our QD.

manufacturing process. Thank you. So 100% berry compliant, made in America, baby. Nice. Yeah. Made in America. You don't hear that very often anymore. Yeah. Well, I was hoping maybe one day if the army's listening, you know what I mean? It's berry compliant, guys. 100% berry compliant. Those gummy bears are made in America too, so...

Maybe the Army's listening to that. There you go, people. Get this in that MRE. Okay, so I gave you a SIG holster. I know you're a SIG guy, so that's the little SIG condom holster, also on Prime, made in America. Actually, an ex-police chief makes those for me. And then basically, look, leather. Why leather? I love leather. I love leather, right? And then we kind of started...

When I was early as a commando, we started with like leather and like items. And then somewhere we transitioned to holsters to like that nylon piece of shit. Oh, man. You know, the old, I don't know, Eagle. I don't know who made it. I'm not naming any names. Sorry, Eagle, if it wasn't you. It was. I mean, you know, it is what it is. But...

Like that holster lost more guns than any other holster because the nylon won't stay tight and the gun's too heavy and it'll just pop out. That's where the lanyards came from, right? And then...

Kydex came along and I started using Kydex. And then what would happen is I'd use the Kydex, I'd run the O course and I had this really nice Kydex EDC. I'm running the EDC, running the O course one day and it cracked and I

And this is when I knew I had a fupa. You know what I mean? Like, cause it pinched my fupa. You know what I mean? It cracked and pinched my fupa and I had to pull it off of there. You know what I'm saying? Before then, I didn't know I had a fupa. You know what I mean? I thought this was of legends and it fucking cracked. And then I was like fucking done with the kydex inside my pants, outside my pants, fucking fine. Inside my pants, I went back to leather. So I,

The Kydex holster that pinched my Fupa, I made a copy of it out of leather. And that's all I've been wearing ever since. Man, this is cool. Yeah. And we call it the condom because it's minimalist. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know anybody else that's making leather condoms.

inside the waistband. - Well, that's 'cause it's always, you'll shoot yourself in the Walmart parking lot, 'cause if you Google leather holsters, this is what all the Kydex manufacturers, propaganda, this is what they'll all tell you. The guy shot himself dry firing, waiting on his wife to go shopping in Walmart. It's like, yo,

Time the fuck out. Let's ask a real question. Why the fuck is this guy dry firing in the Walmart parking lot while he's sitting down? Can we ask that question first before we blame the fucking holster? And then if you're going to do that, what's this guy's level of fucking training? Can we ask that? Like, I got some questions before we blame the gear. You know what I mean? Yeah. What else do we got?

Oh, boot kits. So your shoelaces, you feed them through the thing and then you put the clamp. So all you got to do is pull it and go to tie your shoes. Nice. Kind of like a Solomon. Normally I put those, you know, the big Solomon quests. Yeah. The quest. Yes. The boot in the picture. That's what I use it for. Literally all this stuff is made in the USA. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Hey, I give you some pens. I made purple markers this year because I just got my purple belt. Thanks, Hickson. Congratulations. If you're watching, Coach Hickson.

I gave you a couple pens. Those pens write really nice. I figured you could use, impress your friends with a Sheriff of Baghdad pen. Some stickers. Yeah, I gave you the kind of gamut of swag. You got some super push in there. You got that prison wallet. You know what I mean? You got the stop sucking dick for beer money. They're all in there, man. Yeah, the slaughterhouse chaos is my jam. That's real talk. Nice.

Is that it? Oh, we got one more. One more. Yeah. Slaughter things. Perfect. Yes. Beanie. Slaughter things. Nice. I know. You look like you could keep your head warm just like me. You know what I mean? I don't got too much insulation just like you up there. I'm just not brave enough to do what you do yet, but I think I'm there. Just get it over with. You think so? It'll be the best decision. Well, I don't know if it'll be the best decision you've ever made, but it sure saves a hell of a lot of time in the mornings. Amen.

Yeah, I kind of do the one size top or bottom myself. Nice. I mean, I ain't got that much, but. Well, let's get into your life story. You ready for this? Let's go, yeah. Let's do it. All right, so once again, started childhood, moved through your career into what you're doing now, and thank you for all the gifts I'm lacking. Thanks, man. Yeah, well, you need anything, just hit me. You know what I mean? I'm easy. Perfect, I will. So where'd you grow up?

Shigeto or Chicano, however you want to say it. I grew up on the South Side. We lived by this as a little kid. I lived by the steel mills until the steel mill shut down. All my grandparents, my mom, like we lived in one of them row houses where it was like my aunt, my grandparents, us. They all walked to the steel mill, walked back at the end of the day. And then one day the steel mill was locked.

And like, you know, fucking South Chicago. That's all it wrote. Man. What were your, do you have any siblings? Yeah, I have an older brother. You guys tight? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He'll probably watch this. He watches, he loves this shit. Like, actually, he tells me all the time. I say the same. No matter how many years I've been telling these stories, they're always the same. That's what he tells me. He's like, I heard you on the show. I'd be like, what'd you think?

You're always the same. I'm like, thanks, man. At least I'm fucking consistent, if not any fucking thing. You know what I mean? But yeah, me and my brother are close. I talk to him all the time. What were you guys into as kids? Man, what were we into? We fucking played in the woods. We wrestled. We didn't wear helmets and rode bikes. We jumped ramps that were sketchy and wiped out. Let's see, as teenagers, we drove drunk just like everyone else. Like,

typical fucking shit, you know what I mean? Like, just boys being boys with kind of no guidance, you know what I mean? Yeah. What were you... I mean, were you into sports, a student? Um, yeah, I was, uh...

Yeah, I've always been that 70. What's the passing 70 percent? Is that where you pass? Because that's like where I like to hover. You know what I mean? Like so as a kid, like I'd come home with like one D and all C's. You know what I mean? They're buying me ice cream. You know what I mean? This kid's going to catch another beating because he got a B. You know what I mean? Like it kind of wasn't fair, but I don't know. I didn't really ever complain. What were you I mean, what was your passion as a kid? Was it sports? Was it?

Wilderness, hunting. I worked. I was a mechanic. I worked. That's all I did is I worked on trucks. No shit. Yeah. You grew up. When did you start working? I probably started working when I was like 8, 10, 11.

My stepdad was a truck driver. He owned his own truck. And I would just... I'd service it, adjust the brakes, grease it weekly. Like, I'd do the kind of weekly services or monthly services. You know, so by the time I was, like, fucking 10, I could service a semi truck. Oh, good. And then I'd pump gas in a gas station where he worked out of with his truck. And then I kind of worked my way up until, like...

I mean, I kind of did it all. And then later I got another job at another shop where I just welded. Basically what I did is

There's a lot of gravel hauling trucks where I grew up. So like these gravel hauling trucks, like the bed goes up and they're on unstable ground. They'll flip over. The truck may not always flip. It'll break the frame, crush like part of the wall of the trailer. It'd take me like two or three weeks, but I'd rebuild the truck and trailer, make it look exactly like it was. It just, that part would be clean and the rest of this fucking thing would be dirty. Wow. Yeah.

That's what I did as a kid. I mean, you started working at eight. Was that out of necessity or you just... I think my stepdad seen I was pretty handy mechanically and just started showing me stuff. You know what I mean? And then after a little bit, I could do it myself and then he kind of, that's how I got allowance. Did you like it? You still knew it? Yeah, I fucking loved it. Yeah, I love mechanical shit. What got your interest into the military?

You know, I knew everyone in my family had been in the military. I kind of didn't know to what level at that point. I knew I would join. I was just making so much money as a welder and a mechanic that like, does it make sense? Right? Because until I was an E7...

I took a pay cut to join the army. No shit. What age were you when you joined? 21. 21? Yeah, so I was a welder and mechanic. I make good money. I mean, I asked my boss one day, I was like, hey, Huck, I'm the guy that always gets these fucked up trucks and this fucking two-week, three-week rebuild process. Like, I want that easy shit. I want to be changing these tires, in and out shit. And he's like, you're the only one with the mental capacity here that could probably pull it off. And I was like...

"Well, that sucks." And he's like, "Back to work." I'm like, "Okay, boss, back to work." - I think I read something that said that you, there was a lot of fighting as a kid. - I fought, yeah. High school, I fought a lot. - Why? - I was the only white guy, so I just got, people just wanted to beat me up all the time. Every day on the bus. - Every day? - Every day. - What age did that start? - Freshman year.

Yeah, I had to ride a bus to school. I was the only white kid on the bus, only white kid in my school. Kind of like school for bad boys for fighting in other schools. So I was the only white guy. And I, you know, imagine being on a bus with 72 people who don't like you. You know what I mean? So I just got beat up every day. And at some point I realized I'm never going to win per se, right? But

I can start doing better. And then what I started doing is, if you were going to jump me today, I'm going to make sure one or two of you are going to the hospital for a couple weeks. That's two less people I'm going to deal with tomorrow. And if this goes on on a daily basis, you're going to be 10 or 12 people down super quick. Sure, you beat me up every day. Sure did. I just focus on one person. Where'd you learn how to fight?

On that fucking bus. On that fucking bus is where I learned to fight. And then eventually the school paid for a cab because every morning the cops had to pull us over broken seats, broken windows, broken arms, broken noses, broken...

And then it just got so expensive for the school. They just paid for a cab in this cab. Some rando would pick me up every night, see the cab. I'd go get in it. They'd drive me to school. Nice. Wow. Wow. Same for your brother? No, my brother was smart. He went to like smart guys school. Gotcha. So this, what was this, like a disciplinary school? Yeah. What got you in there? Fighting. Fighting.

fighting at the other school yeah what were you fighting over there uh you know stupid high school kid shit i don't even remember so you just liked fight yeah i'll fuck you up if i think you wronged me i will come fuck you up i don't talk shit or nothing i will tell you exactly what i'm gonna do don't fucking test me and i'll tell you a funny story i had a he knows he's probably listening to this there's a warrant officer one day right like

I don't know, giving me shit. Me and my team, like, whatever. We're doing whatever. He doesn't like it. He's a warrant officer. And I was like, if you don't get the fuck out of my shoot house, I'm going to kick you in the fucking ass.

And he's like, you can't touch me. I'm an officer. And I had a big like quest boot on or big scarpa boot. I fucking Muay Thai kicked that motherfucker in the ass so hard he dropped, fucking couldn't breathe. I think Timmy was there. I think Timmy watched this, you know what I mean? And like he dropped, he couldn't breathe. And I'm like, say another word, motherfucker, and I will fuck you up now. And like he never said a word.

after that. I'll bet he didn't. So, yeah, even as a kid, like, I don't talk shit. I'm telling you what's going to happen and this will happen and I'm just waiting for the start point. So you were never an instigator? No. No, I ain't going to start shit. It was all self-defense. Yeah, you fuck with me, I'm going to take it to you. You know what I mean? Like, I don't fuck around. And then,

I think I was a little less ruthless in regular high school before the bus. After the bus, like, yo, fuck you. Damn. Fuck this. I'm not in the mood. So whose decision was it to put you in that school? Was it parents or was it the school district? School, parents. They all hated me. But, you know, I mean, I had a dicey childhood to begin with. So, like, I didn't give a fuck what my parents thought. Really? Yeah. I think it...

I think both me and my brother, like by the age of like, I don't know, he was maybe 14, I was 12. I think we both knew we were more mature than my mom and my parents. Why do you say that? My parents were young people. They were young when they had us. They drank all the time. They wanted to party. You know what I mean? Like they weren't really great parents. Are you, are they still alive? No, I don't have any family. My family dies early. Really? Yeah. I don't have anybody but my brother.

So they're all dead. Do you mind if I ask what happened? Let's see. My dad died at like 50. Already outlived him of some like weird fucking shit I don't even know about. And then my mom died. She's a smoker, so she had lung cancer. Kind of died once from that. Came back to get brain cancer later to die later. You know what I mean? Damn.

So, but yeah, they were young. They were drinkers. My mom was divorced, just like most women once they get divorced. You know how some women, after they get divorced, they just stay bitter? That was my mom. But she became bitter with everybody. She argued with her sister. She argued with her parents. She hated everybody, right? And then me and my brother were like, there's got to be a better way than this.

Man, so was there, I mean, when you left home, was there any dialogue with them? Man, I left home at like, we left home at 12 and 14 and we just did crime to eat until I was older and then I worked.

What do you mean you did crime? We did crime for food. Like what? Fucking robbing shit, fucking stealing food, fuck, anything. You know what I mean? Target's opportunity. I don't know what you mean. We fucking stole shit. I mean, I can't be more clear. I mean, were you stealing food to eat or you were stealing stuff to sell? Yeah, no, yeah, yeah. Stealing stuff to sell for food or, yeah. Yeah, that's what we did. What age did that start?

Twelve. Twelve? Yeah. So you started working at eight? Yeah, I worked till about this point. Me and my brother kind of went on our own. And then later I came back to working probably when I was about, I don't know, 15. I realized I had to put myself through school. So no matter where I lived, like we lived in a brothel for a little bit. You lived in a brothel? Yeah. Why?

Not a lot of places for a 12-year-old to go. How does a 12-year-old get involved in a brothel and get a... These are the people and your neighbors in South Chicago. These are your neighbors and family, you know what I mean? Well, I want to hear about this. How did that happen? Did you get invited into the brothel to live? Yeah, this lady took care of us, the lady that ran it kind of deal. Yeah.

She was like a hooker and a junkie, and I was just a little kid. Oh, I was 12. How was that conversation? Nicest human being I ever met. She was great. I mean, what instigated that to happen, though? Yeah, you know, the beatings will continue till morale improves. Even as a 12-year-old, that's fucking, you know, why are we fighting again? So me and my brother thought we could do better on our own, and we did. Did she approach you? Who?

No, it's like a family friend. You know what I mean? Like, literally family and friends. Like, when you grow up, your parents, like, you have cousins, uncles, people that know people. That's how Chicago's a little place. How long did you live in the brothel? I don't know, man. Probably a couple years. Have you talked about this anywhere else? I've never told anyone this. Well, I guess your brother's in for a surprise now, huh? Uh-huh. Yeah.

Yeah. I'm sorry, how long did you say you lived in there? Yeah, like a year or two. I don't know. I don't even remember, but a little while. I mean, can you describe maybe a little bit about daily life? Yeah, we woke up, went to school, came back from school.

And then like there'd be ladies in the house getting ready for work. They were normally gone all night. We lived with this old guy actually owned the house. And as long as he got whatever he wanted, he didn't give a shit what they did. I don't know. I don't get it. It seemed weird. I'll never be in that situation, but I'm not judging. And then, yeah, it was just kind of regular, like no different than where I lived, except we were a little poor. Yeah.

Which we didn't have money to begin with. You know what I mean? Would you guys have a room there? Yeah, we shared a room. Customers coming in the house or is it-- No, normally they would go wherever, do business. Gotcha. Did you realize what was going on at the time or-- Oh, yeah. You did. I mean, I could have been shooting heroin, doing heroin, doing-- I could have been doing it all.

I was a kid. I just wanted to get through school, put myself through school, right? And then figured I'd do something after that. I didn't know yet. Shit. What was your relationship with your stepdad like? Was it... You know, my mom was bitter, so he was only around when I was little. And then he was gone. And then it was like boyfriend, boyfriend, boyfriend, boyfriend, fucking guys, man. Shit. So that's my childhood. Little dicey. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm sure there's a lot more to dive into there. Huh? I'll bet there's a lot to dive into there. It was a long time ago. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? So when you left, I mean, you left at 12. Yeah, lived on my own until I was like, I don't know, maybe 16. And then my mom kind of like, I don't know, kind of started to get her shit together. So I moved back with her. I lived with her. And then I lived with her until I joined the Army. How'd she get her shit together?

Um, she just stopped being so fucking mean and drinking so... I don't know if the drinking stopped, but, uh, I don't know. She was just better. I don't know what that means. I don't know what her better was. I was just a fucking kid. Like, why have I got to be the fucking adult here all the time? You know what I mean? Yeah. So, uh, yeah, I lived with her. Um, put myself through school all those years. Went to school every fucking day, no matter what. Walked myself...

fucking down the tracks in the fucking snow. You know what I mean? Like I wasn't barefoot and then I didn't have to walk uphill both ways, but like I had shoes and I walked to fucking school and miles to school every day just to make sure I went. What kind of drugs was your mother into? She was just alcohol. Alcohol, no injectables? I mean, not that I'm aware of, no. I don't think she ever did anything like that. Abusive? Yeah.

Yeah, of course. Alcohol, you know what I mean? I got a question. Yeah. There's a lot of kids that are in this situation right now today. Yeah, yeah. So what would your advice be?

to a kid that's gone through that yeah do you go to school look you're not going to go anywhere if you don't go to school go to school every day school was a break from the in my life right i didn't like school i didn't learn i still got c's i still slept you know why because this is sometimes i was tired because who knows what craziness went out of my house last night right so i'd tell you go to school conduct your life

If you see you're the fucking adult in any situation, I don't care your age, you're now the adult. Fucking act like it. You don't got a choice. You know what I mean?

So you might as well embrace the life you think you want. So I went to school. I knew I didn't want to stay in a fucked up South Chicago my whole life. When I was in the SEAL teams, I loved to dip. I spent a lot of time on operations and dipping was a ritual. So if it's a ritual for you too, I get it. If you're an adult, age 21 or older, and use nicotine or tobacco, I want to tell you about an American brand called

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Upgrade your business and get the same checkout we use with Shopify. Sign up for your $1 per month trial period at shopify.com slash Sean. That's all lowercase. Again, go to shopify.com slash Sean to upgrade your selling today. That's shopify.com slash Sean. So you get in, you go to bootcamp. How was that? Fucking easy.

Was it easy for you, all that structure from a broken home life? Easy, yeah. Did you like the structure? No, fuck no. I don't like structure. I don't like fucking, I don't like leadership. I don't like being managed. You know what I mean? Like, I don't like any of that, but basic training was easy. Wake up, do your shit. Pretty fucking simple.

You know what I mean? The garbage can's only going across the floor because it's scripted and they probably do this every fucking month. You know what I mean? And as a guy who loves talking shit and being funny at the time, like these obscenities were new to me and I thought that was great. And like they'd yell at somebody and I just, I'm over there trying to hold back my laughter and then, you know, my drills are gonna be like,

Do push-ups. I mean, like, yes, your sergeant. You know what I mean? Why? Because I'm laughing again because I think his obscenities are funny. Even when he'd yell at me, I thought it was funny. You know what I mean? So I thought basic training was great, man. I had a great fucking time. Loved every minute of it. Where'd you go from there? Rip. Back in the rip, not rasp, the rip days.

Well, airborne school, then rip. That was airborne. Joke. Yeah? You did airborne school, right? I did. It was a joke. I thought it was a joke. You thought it was a joke? I thought it was a joke. It was a fucking joke. I was just hungover all the time. And then I'd get in trouble for buying beer for people. But yeah, airborne school was just a joke. Besides getting out of the plane the first time, the rest was a joke. And then you went to Rio. Yeah. And literally, those motherfuckers showed up at your airborne...

You know how you graduate, you get that airborne beret. Yo, I got it ripped off my head. I've never seen that bitch again. You know what I mean? I would have liked to have had that now. You know what I mean? What the fuck is this? Wow.

And then literally they're like, load the fucking truck. So you throw your like two duffel bags on the truck. They don't say shit. And the truck drove away. We had to fucking run this truck down across post to the fucking rip barracks. Like what the fuck? If it wasn't for the stop signs and the traffic, like we'd have lost them. Never been able to. These motherfuckers just took off. It was like, what do we do? I was like, I think we follow our bags. And I just started like, that's everything the army gave me. I can't just let these guys drive off with it. Like,

And then we ran to the rip barracks and then those guys were fucking serious. Like the army was a joke till then. And that's when I realized like the armies might be a joke. A basic training airborne school might be a joke, but these guys ain't fucking around at all. You know what I mean? Like the first time I seen a guy run the airfield at five minute miles and I'm supposed to keep up like,

what in the fuck is this? You know what I mean? Like a dude took off so fast. I couldn't even, I just stood there and everyone's like running. I'm like, well, Oh fuck. Now I'm like waste. I'm never going to catch up now. You know what I mean? Did you, because I should make assumptions, but I would think that you didn't have a lot of respect for anybody, any adults in your childhood because of your upbringing. Yeah.

Yeah, I wouldn't say that at all. I respected people that earned respect. I didn't respect people who are just fucking, you know, fucking Karens out there doing whatever the fuck they do or whoever these days. You know what I mean? Like, I learned real quick people were who they were. And at face value, you're a fucking asshole or you're not. And I could figure that out quick.

Well, kind of the reason I'm asking is, I mean, you grew up fighting. Obviously, the home life wasn't great. And so when you get to Ranger Battalion and you see all these guys, these studs, you respect them. Oh, yeah, I knew I was home. It's the first time, like, I actually fit in somewhere in my life. You fit in. What about it made what? Guys did what they said. You know what I mean? We're running the airfield in fucking X time.

We come in at X time. Clean your fucking room. Your room's clean, no issues. You know what I mean? Like, it was the first time, like, people acted with responsibility. You know what I mean? I do. Did you feel challenged? Fuck yeah. At that point? Daily. Daily. And then I was 21. I was able to drink on the weekends. They fucking hated me for that because, like, everyone drank because I was drinking. You know what I mean? And then I'll tell you one day, this is the best thing.

I Zen rip. We get the hotel. We get the weekend off. We get the, like, we go down to the hotel next to the Chickasaw Club or whatever the fuck it was so we could just walk over there and party and go back to the hotel and crash. I fell asleep by the pool and got sunburned. Like,

bad sunburn right because I'm like I know I'm like three shades above pasty white right now but it's only because I was at my buddy's pool in Oklahoma City in his backyard you know what I mean so it doesn't you know 10 minutes in the sun and like my skin's gonna come off two days from now actually three minutes but I'm trying to be nice to myself

So I get sunburned bad, right? And then my sunburn, the skin's coming off and the cadre, what do they tell me? Like they were going to give me an Article 15 for damaging U.S. property. And I'm like thinking, oh, no, right? So...

What they do is in the morning on like the long runs, they'd make people pick me up and carry me for miles. So there'd be a guy on each ankle just rubbing my ankles raw. You know what I mean? Skin's coming off anyway. Just rubbing my ankles raw. Guy under each hip, my shoulders, rubbing my shoulders raw. So like I had to do RIP sunburned for like a week or two. And they abused me with that sunburn in every way they could. Shit. What...

How long is rep? It's three weeks back then. Three weeks? Yeah. What would you say the most challenging portion was for you? Just staying hydrated. Staying hydrated. Yeah, they didn't fucking train us. They'd be like, all right, we're going to learn map reading. Anyone got any questions? Dumbest fucking question I ever heard. Everyone outside, we're going to smoke you guys until we get a heat casualty. Ha ha ha!

That's it. And then like, you'd come back, like someone would, but you're like, yes, someone passed out. I couldn't take too much more of myself. You know, you don't want to tell anybody. So it was, so it's basically, it's just a beat down session to see who wants to be there. I'll tell you this, the old rip, that selection created guys that would not fucking quit.

You know what I mean? Now, when I got the Ranger Battalion, I didn't know shit about shit. You know what I mean? Like that map reading class was mostly pushups out in the sun until someone passed out, you know? So like, I felt like I didn't know shit when I got the Ranger Battalion. But the reality is, is like fucking smart like tractor, strong like bull, man. I got this. You know what I mean?

So when you, I mean, how was the, how was the sense of accomplishment when you completed Rip? Yeah. Fuck. Hardest thing I've ever done. Hardest thing I've ever seen done in my life. And I just finished. You know what I mean? Who'd you call? I don't think I called anybody. Didn't have anybody? No. Not your brother? Nobody? No. Yeah, I didn't call nobody. So you show up to which Ranger Battalion? First. I went to First. Where is that? Savannah. Let's talk about walking in there for the first time. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I get to my platoon, right? I don't know. It's pretty good, you know? They made fun of me. I guess I had a Chicago accent.

I didn't know there was one, but guys would make fun of me and they'd be like, oh, Adrian, you know what I mean? Like they'd make fun of the way I talked. No one really liked me. Why? I don't think I was too popular. Like who likes the new guy? Was it like that back then? There was only a couple new guys? Yeah. Like the platoon would get like two new guys and like you're on shit detail till they get another one, you know?

And then, yeah, I just, you know, like there was times where my squad leader's like, I'm going to send the head private in here to square you away. Yeah, I just knocked that fool out in my room. You know what I mean? Like walk out in the hallway. You got another private boss? Like and then like, you know, as I put in my time, you know what I mean? I became like, you know, one of the, you know, you know how it goes. You progress through the platoon, you know. Who did you gravitate towards?

I mean, you had to have somebody that kind of took you under the wing, correct? I don't gravitate to anybody. I roll alone. I stand alone no matter where I am. I don't care if I'm with 50 other guys. And that's kind of the way I always seen it. And the whole mentor thing is lost on me. Really? Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Everyone's flawed. How are you going to have a mentor? You know, there's guys that showed me shit, but like I never really- Aren't you mentoring people at SOB Tactical?

I would say no. No? I mean, I think I'm a great role model.

But I'm not like trying to convince you of anything. I want you to be the best you you could be. So I don't know. Maybe I do mentor. Maybe it's just the way I see it. But yeah, in the platoon, like, you know, and then like as I got up there, you know, as you know, I went to the sniper section. I was the company sniper forever. Like what a fucking great job that was for me. How long did it take you to get to sniper? Long time. Probably like three and a half years.

It took me like a year and a half to get to ranger school. Our platoon had so many guys on the list. You know what I mean? And then you could jump the list. Like once in a while, they'd be like, OK, random PT test. Highest score amongst the private gets the next slot. I'm not the fastest guy, even though I could probably do the most push-ups and sit-ups.

I'm not going to be the fastest guy on the run. So like some fucking little guy running that fucking, you know, 11 minute, two miles is going to fucking crush me. Yeah. So I had to wait till my time. Let's talk about, I mean, did you always want to go to sniper? Um, fuck, I didn't know. No one knew. I didn't know what that shit was back then. You know what I mean? They're like, you want to be a sniper? I'm like, yes. Why would I say no at that point? You know what I mean? I didn't really know what it entailed, but I can tell you this, like,

great at navigation. I never get lost. Like I'd lead the company like, and then, you know, like, I don't know, like just company training one, one year we're like in Eglin Air Force Base, like I'm the sniper team. So I got to recon the route for the company. Like I'd walk to the next Creek and get in and just sit in for a little cool down. I get up,

You know what I mean? And then I was like, and then I would start giving the company like where I got in the water and cooled down. I'd give that to, I was like, hey, this is where you need to move to next. You know what I mean? Like, and they get to like, he told us to move to a creek. Like, you know what I mean? I don't know if, and then like some days when it was super hot, the commander would be like creek to creek just like that. I'm like, okay. And he'd tell everyone, get in the water, cool down, keep moving. Right. But yeah.

Um, yeah, I like the autonomy of it. I'll do my job. You ain't got to worry about me. I'll get this shit done. You know what I mean? You guys just make sure you do your shit. What, what, um, did you deploy with them? Rangers? Yeah. Man, I jumped in Iraq in 91. No shit. Yeah. Fucking compound fracture. My fucking leg right here. Yeah. I jumped in. Was that pre-sniper?

Oh, I was a private. I was a private when I jumped in. Oh, man, I got to hear about this. So how long were you at Ranger Battalion before? About five years. Five years. Yeah, I wanted to stay. Like, it was my jam. It's where I thought I fit. And then, like, we had some asshole sergeant major that was like, like dudes that were like five and a half years were coming on orders to, like, Korea. I don't want to go to Korea. Like, I have nothing against Koreans. You know what I mean? Like...

Like it's cold there. Like I don't know what they do there. You know what I mean? Like no interest ever in going to the DMZ for the army. Like zero interest from this guy. Maybe that makes me a bad army guy. So fucking be it. But I was like...

How can I control where I go? So I put in for the special forces selection. Well, before we get there, let's go to the jump in Iraq. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it sounds like, so you joined the military to become a mechanic. Yeah. First, that didn't work out. So then you went airborne, ranger. I mean, did you, was combat on your mind at all?

Fuck yes, it's all you talk about as a young private and ranger battalion. The news is like, there's trouble in Haiti. You're like, let's go. Airfield jump. We mow everybody down. Like, you know what I mean? Like you're riding this roller coaster and then they're like, there's trouble in Sierra Leone. Like, let's go. We're going to jump on the, you know what I mean? So like as a young guy, fuck, that's all you thought about. You know what I mean? When is the, did you see any combat in Iraq? No.

No, it was a fucked up jump, 30 knot winds, General Grange, then Colonel Grange was the, matter of fact, I just did a water jump with him last year. I had beefed out with him. I was like, I got beef with you. You're the only motherfucker to puncture my fucking body in 20 motherfucking years, right? And then I JMP'd him in a static line shoot, and I'm just like,

snatching shit. And then my buddy Danny's like, yo, you done jerking a general around? I'm like, I feel better. We beefed it out. We're best friends now. So General Grange was the commander then, but I had a great time with him last year. He's a friend of mine, but

At the time, I'm just a private in the back of the stack, you know, static line up, my fucking shit on, combat loaded to the fucking teeth. Who knew how much I weighed? Mortar rounds in my backpack, fucking everything, the whole ranger combat fucking loadout thing, you know? And then we jump in, 30 knot winds. I landed off the airfield, my backpack down.

hooked on this like bombed building with like rebar, like hooked on a rebar and literally kind of set me down. And then this leg hit rebar. And I was kind of laying there when I landed and I'm like, okay. And then I learned this from the Brits, you know, okay, this hand seems good. This hand seems good.

This leg and foot seems good. And I lifted this one up and it was like this in the sand. So I dumped some water on it and that water got in there, burned immediately. I'm like, and then like a big J on my shin compound bone was broke. So I kind of push it in, pinch the skin in. Back then we didn't have like, I think I did a double pressure dressing. You know what I mean? Like with the dry bond rags is like really what they gave us for meds.

I did a double pressure dressing and got up, got my shit, walked through the minefield on the outside of the airfield, jumped the fence, and then walked the airfield to make link up. And then I got to link up. You know, I'm just a private. I got to link up. We had this first sergeant, coolest like Mexican guy ever, like this guy. And his name is Ivan. I don't know, but blame his parents.

And Ivan's like, hey, God damn it. You made it. You know, and I'm like, thanks for starting. He's like, put your shit down. And I'm one of the first guys to make it, too. And he's like, I was like, hey, is the medic here? And he's like, yeah, what's happening? He was like, oh, something happened. I'm like, yeah. And he's like, doc, get over here. Medic comes over, you know, cut that off. So I cut it off with scissors. They look at it.

And then the first time I was like, oh, god damn it. You know what I mean? And then the medic was like, who did the dressings? I was like, well, I did sergeant. I did a double pressure dressing, one and then another to try to close the gap because it was too big. And he was like, goes in his bag, throws me more shit, put that back on. I'm like thinking, fucking this is how this goes, you know? So...

They like had to do some road march, whatever the mission was going to be kind of petered out. They end up walking like 50 fucking miles for no reason with all this heavy shit. So all I missed was like a fucking heavy tactical road march, which I would have crushed anyway because road march is what I do. But yeah, and then I was just kind of broke.

And they were supposed to cast my leg and then my squad leader because I'm a private you're not going to see the medic. Can I see the medic? My leg hurts. You're just being a pussy. So I went through that for a while and then by the time my squad leader was gone one day I went to actually see the medic. They're like, how come you didn't come back for your cast? I'm like, I tried.

Like, I tried. Well, it's too late now. And then the Ranger doc, this guy, Doc Donovan, he's a Ranger legend, right? And he was like, he's talking to me like, I'm going to get out of the Army or be med boarded because of this. And I'm like, I'm not getting out. How do we fucking fix it so there's less pain? And he was like, what?

I'm like, yeah, I don't want to get out. I'm not here to bitch over this. I'm here to fucking figure out like how I can get back to running in the morning without so much fucking pain. And then like, I was like, it was weird. Like I didn't want to get out. You know what I mean? That's not why I was complaining about it. I was complaining because it fucking hurt, which is why I thought you go to the medics, but that's not always true. So, um, yeah, so I just fucking sucked it up for a while and eventually it got better.

Did you say you're still a private after five years? Me? No. Okay. I thought you said it took five years to get to this jump. No, this was like 91 when I was new, new in Ranger Battalion. Okay. I was a new guy. Okay. It took me five years. I did five years in Ranger Battalion, and then I went to SF. Okay. I mean, I'm curious. So how long were you at Ranger Battalion before you jumped in, Tyrock? Five.

A year, Max. A year? Yeah. So what was your, how did that brief come down? Fuck, man. The whole regiment, there's a fucking war going on. We're going to fucking war, baby. Everyone's like, yeah, who wants grenades? You're like, I do. I do. Who needs another claymore? You know what I mean? The fucking, as soon as they start throwing grenades and claymores around, you know this shit's fucking real. You know what I mean?

were you pretty pumped about it super and then it was like it was exactly like every airborne school song you know what i mean like c140 you know 64 jumpers whatever the i don't even remember those songs i'm doing this poorly right but like we got on the planes we flew to iraq we rigged up we jumped the out it was great but it was 30 knot winds and it up a ton of dudes i think there was like

Man, it had to be like, I don't know, man. It was a lot, like 80 backboards out there with dudes taped to them, you know what I mean? And then like dudes, because the winds were so high, dudes got drugs. I see like, remember the old like LBE thing that held the magazines, like three magazines and like the lid came off with like the plastic buckle on the front? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Remember those? Yeah.

that would be ground in half and you could see every bullet in the magazine still. - Holy shit. - So like when I got to the medic point, when they're like, "Hey, you're not going on the road march, you're medical, these are backboards, you guys gotta go to the hospital." Dudes raped me for my gear, like raped me. So here I am injured having to just carry all my shit in a fucking ball. I don't even have a backpack, so I took my shit.

So you come back from that. You do some sniper. You go to sniper school. Yeah. How was sniper school? U.S. Army sniper? Fucking joke. Really? Ridiculous.

Yeah, the stocks. You had to get like 30 meters from a fucking truck and you're shooting an M14 blank. You know what I mean? You know how much fucking gas? They're like, the gas probably touches the fucking truck. You know what I mean? Like, it's fucking ridiculous. I mean, I did well. I passed. You know, I shoot well, but like I thought it was a joke and they like tried to smoke us one morning. And it's like your regular army, you're fat, you're out of shape.

Like, why even add two hours of fitness in here? It only makes you look bad. Like, teach us something. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I thought... Although, it's the mark of the man. You got a pass to have your job, even though you're already a sniper, right? You got to know the basics. I thought it was...

a little unrealistic, which made it harder than it needed to be. I think it could be a little more realistic and guys would learn more and do better later instead of only thinking like, "I gotta get 30 yards on a stalk." Good point. Good point. Did you do any other deployments in Ranger Battalion? Yeah, tons. Like, I think we were in Egypt during Mogadishu. We were in Egypt at the Sinai waiting on the word.

I've done a ton of shit in Ranger Battalion. Fucking jungle school so many times in Panama. Like, I don't even want to talk about it. Like, I'm a jungle expert. I don't know how many fucking times over. It's not even funny. You know what I mean? Right. Yeah, I did a ton of shit in Ranger Battalion. Tons of shit. Well, what caught your interest in SF? I didn't want to end up in Korea. That's it. That's it.

That's all I knew. I mean, think about it. In the 90s, there was no internet. I didn't even know what a fucking ranger was, and I did that. And then these guys are going to special forces selection. What was it like? And then a buddy of mine that was like, there's nothing you can't do every day. I'm like, I think I'll try this out. And that's what I told myself the whole time. There's nothing today that I can't do. Let's take a quick break, and then we'll dive into that. Okay.

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Getting ready to go to SF selection. That came across your radar. You don't want to go to Korea. Yeah. So...

How did it come across your radar though? I'm just curious. Man, like other guys in my platoon went. So, yeah, this is an interesting thing. Like back in the 90s, no fucking internet. People these days ask me like, I want to follow your path. You know, how did you know your, there was no fucking path. Like it's a, roll the fucking dice, man. You know what I mean? You just fucking went and you tried like,

Mark of a man, you know, but guys that went to the unit disappeared forever. You never seen them in Ranger Battalion. Like gone. You're never going to see them again. Why? Unit didn't do nothing with the Rangers back then. You know what I mean?

And then those guys were just gone. So the SF guy, the guys that go to SF selection would come back and like be around a little while before they left or something. So you get to talk to them. You know what I mean? The guys that went to the unit were gone within the month. Like you never seen him again. Interesting. So like the time I went to SF selection, I figured I'm not married and I'm too young for the unit. And that's.

Kind of what guys thought back then. Gotcha. Gotcha. Mature, married guys. This is who they take. So I figured, well, I'm still just a single guy, whatever. I'll do SF or I might have been married at the time, but I figured I'd do special forces. A buddy of mine went, said it was like, it's nothing you couldn't do every day. Oh, fuck. That sounds like me right there. You know what I mean? So I went. How was it?

I was on the fucking worst team ever in the history of Special Forces selection. I'm pretty fucking sure of it. No shit. Why is that? Dude, like...

I was just on a team with a bunch of fucking pussies. You know what I mean? Fucking, let's just say it like it is. Like, you know, like the smokings are only for so many hours. You can only do so many fucking pushups. This isn't a fucking thing. This is daily shit in Ranger Battalion. You know what I mean? And my guy's like, and like, we're doing log training.

I had a nickname Zero for a while for selection and like the mandatory log day where it's like, huh, what? You know what I mean? Like you do the log or you lift it up. You know, it's like 12 people on a fucking log, right? Okay. If all 12 people actually lifted the log, the log ain't fucking heavy. But when everyone's bitched up like, it makes the heavy end a lot fucking heavier.

Right. It makes the light end a lot fucking heavier. So like we're doing a lot of PT and like my team is just fucking like, except for like one or two guys on my team, like we might as well be the fucking, you know, the retard squad out here. I don't fucking know. You know, it's fucking sad. So it's like one, you know, and they count the cadence like one, two, three, four. And then you yell the number like one. You know what I'm saying? I just started yelling zero.

fucking zero motherfuckers zero right so i yelled zero so many times one of the cadre came up to me and he was like yell zero again and you may not make it through selection i'm like roger that sarge one two three four fucking zero again motherfuckers like i yelled zero again you know what i mean

So he's like you with me. So he brings me to the front of everybody. Everyone gets a break while they're fucking with me. So anyone in my selection course, you're fucking welcome, especially you fucking pussies. You know what I mean? Anyway, so they gave me my own six foot log. The six foot log is worse than the big log. You know what I mean? But at this point, I can't be the fucking...

I can't be weak here. You know what I mean? I got myself into this position. And you know how you get out of this position? You fucking rock star that shit. I grabbed that log. One, two, three, fucking zero. One, two, three, zero. I just kept yelling zero. There's the pathway for everybody that's asking. There you go. And then so everyone called me zero in selection.

But, like, that little log was no joke. Yeah. I literally had to, like, do shit, be strong, fucking breathe. You know what I mean? Probably a lot girthier than the other logs, eh? You would know you're in the fucking Navy. You know what I mean? Yeah. So, anyway, yeah. And then, like...

You know, like you start first thing in the morning and then you got to do like your selection event or whatever the fucking craziness they throw at you during the day. And like most teams are getting done around like three o'clock with their first event. And there's a couple of nights we came in like bedtime and they just let us out there walking with these fucking whatever bullshit we're fucking doing that day. Like I was on the worst team ever. And then I thought this was interesting. The final road march for selection was,

Like literally you walk they line everybody up, you know And I think there's like a gunshot or someone yells go or air horn or something bear, you know like go Everyone takes off like a fucking bad out of hell and I'm just thinking you ever been on a fucking 20 miler or 25 mile road march like that is not the speed you start at you start slow and you taper off, you know what I'm saying? That's how you win when like all these people take off. So I'm just like I

So I just start walking, right? And then about two miles in, there's a creek you got to cross, right? And I never seen this before. Like dudes would stop and they're trying to put a garbage bag over their leg and over their sock. Bullshit. I seen tons of fucking dudes doing this. So I just walked right fucking through. This gave me a major lead on all them fucking assholes. You know what I mean? Are you serious? Yeah.

They're putting trash bags over their feet so they can get wet. Yeah. Holy shit. Wow. Wow. I never even seen that. You know, I haven't seen that. I just walked through and I think later I had to take a shit and I changed my socks because they were a little wet. I mean, but it's only because I had to take a shit.

But I just walked through and when I came in, you had to turn in like, you got to have like the star cluster, you know, the star, I don't know what you guys call them, the star cluster. And it goes, right. Yeah. You had to carry a couple of those. So if you get lost, you know, part of the procedure to find you, right. Well, you get done. There's a guy sitting there with a box and he's like, throw your, throw your shit in the box. I was like, okay. So I throw them in the box and the box isn't like empty. I was like,

in this box? And he was like, yeah. I'm like, there's nothing in it. He's like, yeah, throw them in the box. So I dropped them in the box. I was like, there's nothing in the box. How many guys are done? He was like, there's another guy just hit the showers. That's what he told me. So me and another guy finished like first. And it's not like I walked fast or hard. I just fucking walked through the water. You know what I mean? It wasn't magic. You know what I mean? I just kept a good pace the whole time. So I thought the team part

I thought special forces selection, the premise of it's fucking stupid, right? Because you're going to do all this shit all day long, all this physical shit. And then they're going to put you in the barracks at like dark and you can't sleep till 10. And then you're going to get major points if you fall asleep. Motherfucker, you walk me all day long. The only thing I'm going to do is fall asleep. You know what I mean? Uh, so I thought, uh, the premise of the SF selection was kind of flawed even then. Uh,

But I passed, so fuck everybody else. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So where did you go from there? Seventh group. Seventh group. Yeah. And your first deployment was? Well, actually, how was it showing up to seventh group?

Versus Ranger Battalion. Yeah, my team sucked. It sucked. You didn't like it? Fuck no. Like, we had no bullets. We didn't fucking shoot. We didn't do shit. You had a fucking... It was like more army than the Ranger Battalion was. No shit. What year was this? Fucking mid-90s, like 95. So what were you guys doing? Nothing. Unless we went to, like, we went to El Salvador. Yeah.

And then we did like, we trot like basic like leadership for like E5s, whatever they would call that. We did like land nab, some leadership, basic shit. But when we were at Bragg, we didn't do shit. That's why I was like, this fucking sucks. So very unimpressive for you. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Especially leaving like the brotherhood of Ranger Battalion. You know what I mean? Like we had shitty days together. A lot of us. You know what I mean? And that just builds those bonds. You know what I'm saying? I don't think SF got good till 2001. Wow. Wow.

You know what I mean? In my opinion. And then I don't think it's any good right now. The SF baby program just ruins it. In my opinion. Really? Why is that? Because there's never been one fucking outstanding SF baby as a leader that I know of. No shit. How long has that program been around?

Fuck man, it was on and off in the 90s and then they turned it off and now it's back on. For the SF Baby program, I would say this: You gotta be in the Army and you gotta know what it's like to truly suck

Because what happens is, seeing this through the war years, especially as a sergeant major, is the SF community, there's so many new guys rising through the ranks and combat super quickly, as fast as the army will let you. Right? That guy was never in the army. So he creates a parallel universe of suck that is just like the army. But he thinks he's cool, but he's doing all the same stupid shit.

guys that came from Ranger Battalion, the Army, that knows what it's like to be fucking, you know, my first First Sergeant reached in my toilet, elbow deep, pulled his hand out. What's this? I said, shit, First Sergeant. What else would be in the fucking toilet? Do fucking pushups. You know what I mean? Like not clean enough.

Like, if you ain't ever seen that shit, you're prone to that shit. You've seen that shit once and know you don't want that in your life and you're not going to be like that, right? You create this another parallel track, which is the fucking adult network of the Army. Interesting. Interesting. What were you guys doing in El Salvador? We just taught like a basic leader's course, navigation, basic leadership, everything.

PT shit like that okay nothing of any any real importance no I mean a couple of the quartels we were at had been overrun and guys had died in them you know late 80s couple years before um

You know, FLMN just kind of... That whole thing just died down, you know? But, you know, I was 18 Charlie. The 18 Charlies that I hung out with, like, were on the land nav course. I'm with, like, the guy I'm supposed to be with, my, like, counterpart or whatever. We're at this fucking rando intersection, and he's like, yo, we haloed in just over there, came to this, fucking ambushed, killed 100 dudes, like, right here, right here. And he's like, yeah. And I'm just thinking...

This guy's supposed to be learning from me? He haloed in Claymore dudes, killed hundreds. Like, what am I going to teach this guy? Yeah. You know what I mean? So we did basic leadership. It was a good time. And then I just, I did 10 months in group and I just wasn't in the rest. That's it? You were only there for 10 months and then you screened for Delta. How did that come across? Yeah, I was at a,

I was at this guy's house at like one in the morning drinking, smoking cigars. And he handed me a piece of paper, which was an old dirt track across from the prison on Bragg. And he's like, it said 6 a.m. at this field. And I'm like, the fuck is this? He's like, you're taking a PT test at 6 a.m.

I'm like, I'm fucking hammered. It's one in the morning. I'm at your house drinking cigars. I am not going to a Delta Force selection tomorrow morning at six. He's like, yeah, you are. What? Who is this? It was a Mogadishu guy. His codename's Elvis.

And he was in my Q course and like just sat next to me. So me and him were ranger buddies. But at first I thought, who the fuck is this random E7 in the Q course that is good at nothing we fucking do? You know what I mean? He's not good at the charges. He's not good at reading. He's like, who the fuck is this crazy old guy in the Q course? You know what I mean? And then, well, turns out he was a unit guy. You know what I mean? Crossing over.

So he was coming from the unit in the SF? No, he was going from 11 to 18 to get promoted in the unit. Gotcha. Back in the day, special forces guys used to get promoted a lot quicker. So the infantry guys would go to the Q course, pass, right, if they pass. Now they're a special forces guy, they go back to the unit, and then they get promoted on the special forces track instead of infantry. Okay. And back in the day, that was just quicker for guys. Interesting. Yeah.

So this guy coaxed you into taking. Yeah. So I went home. I told him fucking not only no, but fucking hell no. And then curiosity killed the cat. You know what I mean? I showed up anyway. Did you get any sleep that night? None. And he said he did tell me that I was like, I'm in no shape to take this fucking PT test. You know, and he was like, all you got to do is pass the army standard to get in.

Which, that's pretty fucking weird. What is it that you think he saw in you that he wanted you to try out to screen? Fuck, I'm squared away. I'm good at every fucking thing. And if I ain't good, I'm going to practice till I am good. You know what I mean? So, of everybody, like, why not? And then, you know, turns out later, a bunch of the guys from IQ Course ended up in the unit. You probably talked to a couple of them, I think. No kidding. I would not doubt that. But yeah, I don't know what he saw. You know, I just...

I'm a savage. When you give me a written test, it's going to be 70%. You let me put my hands on shit. I'm really good at that. Right. I was a mechanic. I can figure it out. And I'm really handy at a lot of shit. So you show up at unit selection. 6 a.m. No sleep. What's I mean, just describe that experience.

I show up, some fucking rando dude. And when I say rando, it doesn't even look like a fucking army guy rando. You know what I mean? Like, rando dude with a clipboard. Like, what's your name? All right, push-ups, go. Sit-ups, go. Right? And the run, there was two of my team leaders in Ranger Battalion at that PT test. And they're like, what the fuck are you doing here? You're not going to fucking pass. Yeah.

And then I made sure on the last lap or two, I lapped him. You know what I mean? I wasn't going to lap him, but then I was like, man, you know what I mean? I got a little gas in the tank. Hey, by the way, I'm hungover. Yeah, by the way, I haven't slept. And then, yeah, I passed. And, you know, I got my selection date, went to unit selection. How much time are we talking between the screen test and going to selection?

Month? That's it? Yeah, not even. So you just, you go back to seventh group and then hang out for a month. What was that at seventh group waiting to go? Dude, when I got orders for that Delta Force selection, you know what I mean? Like they wanted to give me scuba school. They wanted me, you know what I mean? They wanted to give me everything at that point. Why? Why did they want to give you everything if they're just going to lose you?

Well, they didn't want to lose me, so they're trying to, like, we'll give you scuba school. We'll give you, like, they're trying to keep me around. I got you. And they're like, well, we'll give you pre-scuba, and you could do that as your train up. You'll be in super good shape before selection, which would have been a true statement, but my feet would have been soft for walking all those fucking miles. You know what I mean? And that's why I didn't go. Interesting. Interesting. So you show up to...

OTC. Yeah. What does OTC stand for? Operator Training. Oh, yeah. Okay. Ain't no magic in unit acronyms. You know what I mean? So how was that showing up there? You're now at the top. Yeah. You show up. There's like fucking 10 kit bags. Everything is perfectly sized to you. Has your fucking name on it. Like, oh, you got already packed.

all you got to do is throw them on your shelves and start fucking training. Like I'd never seen that. You know what I mean? And I'll tell you another thing is like when you pass selection, which selection was great, by the way, no one fucks with you. They just let you walk for days and miles and days and no one talks to you. And like, it's fucking great. It's the best thing ever. Um,

When I put on them GSG-9 assault boots. So when you get done and you pass, you go like in the next room. And they had all this gear laid out where you got to try on your sizes. So when you show up, they got all your shit, the right size and everything. And you just start fucking training, right? So I put on them GSG-9 assault boots. Remember those? There was a day where those were like...

Like, you know what I mean? I had only seen, I might have seen one picture with a dude with those boots, but I heard they wore them and that's kind of all I knew. So fucking fuck you internet for ruining the mystique of fucking walking into something blind. You know what I mean? But I put on them boots and that's when I was like,

holy fuck, the army don't do this. You know what I mean? And then you get there and it's just like all the bags, your sizes, packed. I mean, fucking tip top, man. Top notch. Let me rewind just a minute. Back to selection. It sounds like you pretty much breezed through every tryout you've been through up to this point. How was selection? Unit selection? Yeah. Fucking loved it.

Was it challenging for you? No. Are you serious? Yeah. The first person I've ever heard say that. But I fucking loved every minute of it. This is the premise or the core of what makes me, me. Leave me the fuck alone. Point me in the right direction. So I just did that every day. Do you want to describe...

selection oh yeah so selection's kind of easy fucking process there's no real magic to it you know uh start out they teach you navigation if you fucking listen to the classes were the best fucking classes i've ever had on navigation if you just listen to what the fuck they told you you could fucking pass but guys in the map reading classes think they fucking know it all

So they don't pay attention to the detail, right? And then, so you get your map reading classes. You do a couple weeks of fucking walking around the mountains. You know what I mean? Like, little kind of warm up, whatever you call it, right? And then fucking, it hits you. You're in the field and like, you got fucking 10 maps and you're like, I'm here. One map sheet, two map sheets, three map sheets. I'm going here. And it's like, have a good one. And you're fucking off. So,

The thing that really fucking I think I liked but the Army doesn't like is no one tells you shit. There's no encouragement. There's no disencouragement, right? And then they're like, you know, they'd write on the board, 8 o'clock, be at the truck. And that's all they'd say. And guys like, well, I mean, what do you think you got to have? Like, well, they also say don't be late, light, or out of uniform. So bring your shit, make sure it weighs right, and fucking let's go. I mean...

I just thought selection was all skill level one tasks. And I had a great time walking through the mountains. I loved every fucking second, man. Well, no, there's one day I didn't love so much. But other than that, I fucking loved it. What was that day? Man, I started to get a little chafe, like my inner thighs started getting chafed. Right. And I knew I needed like Vaseline or something to walk during the day so I wouldn't get chafed.

I didn't want to go to the medic because the thing is, as you go to the medic, you're automatically out. That's what guys think. So like, I didn't want to go to the medic. So finally one night, you know, you got to put up like a poncho hooch, like knee high. You got to lay, you got to sleep under it out in the field. Right. So I'm under my poncho hooch and I was like, I'm just going to walk over to the medic thing and just ask for some Vaseline or something. Vaseline gauze, any type of lube. You know what I mean? So,

I go to the medic station. I knock on the Humvee. He opens the back of the, you know, the old medic Humvee where the stairs came down and the doors, right? So I go up in there, and it's me and him in the back of a Humvee, so we're like two feet apart. You know what I mean? And I was like, hey, my legs, inner thighs are a little chafed, kind of like bottom of my butt cheeks also. Like, could I get some Vaseline or something? He's like, drop your drawers, show me. I'm like, what? What?

We're like this fucking far away in the back of a Humvee, the medical Humvee. You know what I mean? I'm like, what? And he's like, drop your drawer, show me. And I'm like, this motherfucker right here. So literally bent over, spread my ass cheeks and made sure I got it as close to his fucking face as possible. You know what I mean? He's like, looks like you're a little chafed. Yeah.

Yo, Captain Obvious, like you're crushing it over here. Like, keep going, you know? So he's like, looks like you're a little chafed. I'm going to give you some stuff. Here's what I want you to do. Go back to your hooch.

Clean yourself off really good areas with the wet nap from the MRE. I'm like, okay, I got an MRE. He's like, you know, they give us to it. They got to feed us. I got those. And he's like, gives me this stuff, rub this on, it'll go away. Okay. Okay.

So I walk out of the Humvee. I look at what he gives me, and it's analgesic bomb. So I don't know what the fucking analgesic bomb is. You know what I mean? I don't know what that means, but I know this. A-N-A-L is the first words, and that's exactly where I'm smearing this shit. So I figured, yeah, this is something for your ass. It's analgesic bomb. Why else not?

My ass hurts, he gives me something that says anal on it. It just seems like if this is Latin or something, it seems like this feels right, you know? So I go in my, you know what fucking analgesic balm is? I don't, but I guess we're about to find out. Yeah, it's not fucking funny. I'm going to tell you that right now. This doesn't, this doesn't end up funny. So I do the wet naps. I wipe my shit. I clean my shit as best as, I'm a good soldier. Clean your shit. He said, clean your shit. I clean my shit, right?

And then analgesic balm, like, and I'm raw too. So I might as well fucking use this whole tube. You know, I want to save some for later if it works, but like I need most of it right now because I'm really chafed. So I get a good amount on my fingers and I'm rubbing my shit. You know what I mean? And at first, like the cream was like cool and cold. You know what I mean? So it went on, it was cooling. It was like analgesic balm has fucking been gay.

He had me rub fucking Bengay on raw meat on the inside of my ass, my asshole, my thighs, like Bengay on my fucking raw shit. Are you fucking sick? You know what I mean? What the fuck is wrong with this guy? This is what I'm thinking, you know? So I'm in my poncho hooch screaming in fucking pain without making a noise. Till it was fucking done burning.

When it got done burning, it didn't chafe again. Not cool. You know what I mean? And then when I got to my squadron, my troop had run selection. So I went to the selection. I went to the troop that ran my selection. That dude was my medic. My first medic. And I was like, hey, can I? And I'm a new guy on a team. Luckily, I'm

the this like mid-level guy to like next to be leadership guy on my team was in ranger battalion and we were really good friends so i'm like yo what's up with this fucking medic dude you know what i mean and he was like his nickname was ass wound another story right and he was like you mean ass wound so and so i'm like he wounded my ass he's like uh no he wounded someone else's ass i'm like

Oh, no, he wounded my ass too, right? And then I had to tell him the story. And every time I'd see the guy, I'd be like, I need whatever. Like, I got no patience for you anymore. You know, analgesic bomb. Fool me once, fuck me. You know what I mean? But yeah, he was my first medic. Let's talk about when you left selection, when you knew that you had made it into OTC. I was in group one month and I was in OTC. 30 days max. How was OTC for you?

Fucking great. I sucked at a lot of shit. I was probably... I think the first time I ran the O course, it was so fucking... I didn't know how to run an O course. Do you go over the rope or under the rope? Do you fucking... I didn't know any of this. And in Ranger Battalion, in Ranger School, you do the Darby Queen, but like...

I don't fucking remember that. You know, it wasn't a time. It's just kind of like, this is fun and they're feeding us, you know? So like I had done O courses, but like, I didn't know how to do an O course. So like my time was like, I don't even remember what my time was like the worst time in history. And my counselor's like, you know, we've never failed anybody out of the unit for the O course, but you could definitely be the first person for this for sure. I'm like,

Thank you. In my counseling. Yes, sir. Thank you. Can I have another? You know what I mean? And then through the course, if I was weak at something, I was there early in the morning. On the weekends, I got with guys that threw out the bill. I got with my cadre. I got with them to ask their buddies who were like CT Olympians, guys that like have orangutan arms that just fucking make the old course look like easy things.

I did that on weekdays after work with these guys. Show me these techniques. And then like the end of it, I came in like second or third on a rainy day where guys were busting their ass. Why? My technique was fucking tight. It could have rained. It could have anything. I'd have ran the same thing because now I knew how to do it right. So I put in the extra miles. I came in early. I did the work because I think as soon as I got to the building, I knew I didn't want to be anywhere else.

Can we talk about the shooting package a little bit? What about it? What do you want to know? Everything. You know, it starts out kind of easy.

So basic rifle marksmanship, whatever the Army calls that shit. You start shooting your rifles, your zero. They teach how to zero. Shoot some bullseye. You know, do your 100, 200, 300. And then before you even go shoot a round with a pistol, you'll do a lot of hours of fucking dry fire on a sticky before you even get one bullet with that pistol.

You know what I mean? So there's a lot of days of dry fire before you even get your first round. And then as the pistol starts, you know, you're kind of far along as the pistol starts, right? And then there's a progression to it. And really it's like, I don't know, it's a bunch of different topics that they got to put together. So, you know, one of the topics is like helicopters, riding in helicopters, rappelling, fast roping, like all that shit, like that.

That could be a module within itself. So you do like a little marksmanship, another module, back to marksmanship. You know what I mean? They break it up throughout the day? Mm-hmm. Okay. Or throughout the whole total time. But the marksmanship standards are no fucking joke. Yeah, that's what I hear. They're not fucking playing. I sucked. I fucking sucked with a pistol when I first started. And then, I don't know, I probably...

I was probably winning the shooting program for probably most of my OTC class. And then I had like one fucking day where I dropped like 10 points, like one bad string and put me in third and I couldn't recover. It's so competitive. There was no way to get back to the top. What did you find to be the most challenging portion of OTC? Of OTC? Yeah.

I would say the most challenging thing in general is not going out when your other places training in training is not going and fucking partying really yeah fuck yeah man you're gonna show up tomorrow hungover like uh when I got to OTC and I am the party guy right like I'm the good time guy I'm the fun panda I will go buy beer I'll bring my own alcohol you know um

I didn't go out. I didn't do any of that in OTC. And a lot of guys thought I was a plant. Like they wouldn't talk in front of me. They wouldn't anything. And then like guys that knew me are like, what's the deal? And it's like, this is the only place I want to be. I don't need any of that shit. You know? So I would say the, the thing that fucking trips guys up more than anything is like, let's say for example, you're out in Nashville, you know what I mean? And you could go to bed at eight o'clock and come in tomorrow and be really good at what we got to do.

Or we ended up till three in the morning out partying, you know what I mean? And like at that level, it shows. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like when you're in Ranger Battalion with 100 guys and you're at the top of the pack, I could show up hungover and still be in the top of the pack. When it's that competitive, you show up hungover, like, yo, take a last place today. You'll never recover from that. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I think the most challenging thing is...

young men being men. How about performance-wise and training? What did you find the most, the most challenging portion of the course? I don't even know, man. I didn't think it was really challenging in the sense that it's very professionally ran. So like they tell you what you need to do. And if you need help, some guy will fucking show you, you know, not like

Other places in the Army or for even Green Team at the SEALs, there's no selection, right? And then what happens is you get to a spot and we're going to train you, but we're also hazing you to weed you out at the same time.

Right. That doesn't lead to a good product. The Rangers do that. You know, the, you know, SEALs do that. I mean, it ends up being a lot of times that's how things work. Right. Is we're training here, but you're also going to get weeded out by this training also. Right. So when you get to the unit, it's if I if you're going to be the world's best trainer.

The world's best is going to show you how to be the world's best. So this is a different thing, you know? So OTC, by the time you get to OTC, they want you. They don't want to get rid of you. No, no. They want everybody. It'll never be full. You know what I mean? I don't care how big DOD is. It's not a big enough pool to keep the ranks full. So they want every person. You already walked the walk. There's no hazing.

It's first name. Like, you need help. Hey, Bob, like fucking show me that pistol thing again. Oh, shit. So it's, would you consider it a gentleman's course? Yeah. In the sense that no one's going to fuck with you. Now, if you're getting fucked with, you're fucking something up. You know what I mean? How did it feel when you graduated OTC? I was one of the first guys drafted and that felt good. What does that mean, drafted? It's a draft. The squadrons need bodies drafted.

One squadron might need more. There's a rotation. You know, you know, this squadron gets people this, you know, you got your squadrons taking people. But what if they need more? There's a rotation. They might have the priority, but these guys get more guys. So it ends up being a draft like the NFL. And then the earlier you're drafted, the more you're wanted. Are you are you there at the time of the draft? Oh, oh, yeah. They'll fucking call your name. No shit. So everybody's there.

Yeah. Wow. Yeah, and you'll know who number one is per squadron. First guy they asked for. What number were you? I don't know, two. Number two? I'm not a number one guy. Right on. I'm going to win from the bottom. Did you know where you wanted to go? What squadron? Yeah, no, I didn't want to go to fucking B squadron. That's for damn sure. Why not? Fuck those guys. Well, what is the culture in each squadron? Per?

I would say A squadron, where I was, is the older, mature brother. Like, let's not do anything stupid. Let's kind of two bulls on a hill, an old bull and a young bull. The young bull says, hey, Bob, let's run down and fuck a cow. And the old bull says, no, son, we're going to walk down and fuck them all. I felt like we were the older bull in that situation. Yeah.

B Squadron was very much like gung-ho, like a ranger squad back then. They wanted to wear their BDUs and they wanted to fucking run the old course. And we're fucking got six packs over here. You know what I mean? And we're fucking intense. Pat McNamara was a B Squadron guy. Okay. Prime example. And then C Squadron, like...

I don't know. From the A squadron perspective, C squadron was the little brother. After Mogadishu, they took hits they couldn't kind of recover from, and it kept them more junior than the other squadrons for a while. Really? Yeah. I mean, after Mogadishu's fucking squadrons, I think almost decimated, right? I don't remember how many people died or whatever, but that would decimate a squadron. And then think about this. Some of my buddies were...

You know, team leaders in four years, troops are majors in six. And like I was the first one to get promoted and take a team. And it took me like fucking six or seven years. You know what I mean? So think about that for experience between the squadrons. Right. But from my perspective in my squadron, that's kind of how we saw it. So did you know this? Did you know this prior to?

Graduating OTC? Yeah. You did? Because when you walk down the hallway to chow, if you knew a guy in B squadron, he wouldn't say hi to you if he's with other B squadron guys. But the guys I knew in A squadron were like, what's up? I hope you're doing good. Like, you know what I mean? Like regular people. Yeah. So you just kind of like see it. You know what I mean? So how does it go when you graduate OTC? You cross that hallway with all your shit. Is there a board? Do they...

Do they talk to you at all? There's a draft. There's a draft. Pack your shit, move the fuck out. No, like, sense of accomplishment, none of that. Just...

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Pretty good, man. Yeah, I mean, I was a new guy. Like for a while, my boss told me keep my mouth shut. For a while, I did. One day, he was like, why aren't you saying nothing? I was like, he's like, because I told you to keep your mouth shut. I nodded. He's like, you probably do well here. I didn't say nothing. But yeah, I don't know, man. I was received just fine. I definitely felt like I was fucking trained and ready to go.

And for the first time, I felt like I was close to being on par with these guys. You know what I mean? Instead of like, what do we do here? You know, I felt like I'm fucking ready. Let's go. Were you on par at that point? Almost. Really? I think so. Okay.

I think so. Like, look, true skill won't come later, you know, until you're a boss and you don't got time to shoot. And you're like, hey, guys, what are you doing? Like, I hate when you show up and beat us. I have more experience at this. You know what I mean? So, you know, experience is the time, is the end of the day, I think, for that experience, whatever you call it. What year is this? 96. Where were you...

When September 11th happened? Fucking trying to get jump numbers to go to free fall instructor school. I was out at Rayford jumping. Did you have any deployments with Delta prior to 9/11? Yeah. What were you guys into? All kinds of shit. Bosnia, Bosnia for one. What were you doing there? I did PSD there, amongst other shit. Tons of shit. Were you impressed?

With Bosnia? I mean, I don't know. You know what I mean? Bosnia was a fucking shit show. You know, even then, we sided with the Muslims. That wouldn't happen after 2001. We'd go to these fucking, you know, camp, Turkish army camps, you know, fucking Al-Qaeda camps. Nothing we could do about it. But the Serbs were the bad guys, right? Yeah.

Is that how the, it's kind of like how the war went. And I would say Bosnia, I fucking love Bosnia, man. I thought it was great. I had a great time. It was, it was my first taste of chaos and making my own rules as I go. You know what I mean? And then I was a new guy. I had to hang out with like,

don't know the guy who complained all the time or the guy who talked all the time like you with him and he's like why do i get the guy that never shuts up you know what i mean i'm the new guy you know what i mean so um but no matter who they paired me with i had a you know do my job and i worked fucking hard in bosnia i made everything i was asked for i achieved um i think i got one of them defense meritorious ribbons in bosnia whatever the fuck the

You know what I'm talking about? Like defense meritorious service or some shit. I got some fucking award for Bosnia. It's pretty good. Right on. Where were you when 9-11 happened? Bragg. Yeah, I was at Bragg. I was skydiving for free fall instructor. I had to have like 250 jumps, so I'd go out with the knights.

I go out with the accuracy team and them motherfuckers are jumping like 1,800 feet. The first time I got out the plane, I was like, what in the fuck is going on? Why the fuck are we doing this, right? And then, like, we're waiting to jump and then...

what the fuck? So like one guy's like, let me go in the team room. I don't know. And the planes were grounded. And then like someone crashed an airplane into the tower. You know what I mean? And like the first plane you see crash into the tower, like is that pilot fucking drunk? You know what I mean? Like, that's what I was thinking. Drunken pilots or something. You know what I mean? And then the second one and you're like, Hmm. So, uh, that day I had to go back. My squadron was deployed. The only reason I was back was to go to the free fall instructor and

And I was basically the squadron commander. Like I had a fucking man up on these BTCs. Like, you know, I'm like sitting in these meetings. I'm like, I don't know what to do. Like, well, you're the senior representative from A squadron. Like, yo, I shouldn't be in this meeting. You know what I mean? Like, we need a representative from A squadron. Like, fuck. Okay. So I'm like sitting in this meeting and like luckily the B squadron commander at the time was like,

B squadrons ready and standing by, ready to go worldwide and whatever the fuck officer shit he said. I just said the same thing as him. What about A squadron? My men are, oh, my guys were somewhere in Europe already. So I was like, my guys are, because the squadrons are always trying to out angle motherfuckers on missions. You know what I mean?

Sounds like my guys are already pre-deployed. I know all the airplanes are shut down, but my guys are pre-deployed, you know, X location and, you know what I mean? Trying to like, we're better than these motherfuckers, you know what I mean? And then, uh...

The B squadron guys at 9-11, like they were driving gun trucks around the compound. It's like, yo, we got a fence. We got guards. Like, why I got to be on guard duty too? You know what I mean? But yeah, I was the A squadron commander for a little bit. You know what I mean? And then the word that came down in those meetings was, be patient. We got to figure this out. Don't do anything rash. Don't start spinning. Let's be very methodical.

Did you have any idea what you were in for at that point? Man, I was hoping it was something good. You know what I mean? Like, I've been around this long. Like, I ain't never, we ain't never done anything. Like, hopefully, you know, because there's whole generations of guys don't even get a mission. You know, especially my day. You know, the 90s and shit. So, like, I was hoping, like...

Hopefully something good comes of this. When was the first team deployed? I don't know. I was on the ground in like November, something like that. I don't even remember. Were you the first team to deploy from that unit? I don't remember how it went down, but yeah, we were basically the first guys on the ground. In Afghanistan? Mm-hmm. And what were you doing there? Fucking killing bin Laden, Battle of Tora Bora. Let's go into that. All right.

You start. Man, me and a couple other guys controlled every fucking asset in the eastern, western hemisphere for fucking 10 days. Every fucking bomb, every pound of audience. Me and a couple other guys dropped. And we killed a lot of people. We killed so many people on my fucking first day, like I just stopped counting then and there. Like hundreds. Like it's too many to count. You know what I mean? How were you killing them?

radios took some .50 cal sniper shots shot some guys but mostly just fucking moving up bombing them moving up bombing them right because you can't get there from here and if they shoot at me from that mountain like I'll just level it you know what I mean let's go to the brief like what was the what was the mission briefing for Toro Borro what were you guys doing like what was the bin Laden's there go get him and kill him end of discussion

Wanted dead or alive. That's it. How'd you insert? Fucking Toyota trucks, man. We drove up, drop a daisy cutter. Man, I had old fucking trusty rusty. I had this red fucking Toyota truck. Like I would attract mortar fire like you read about, man. It's fucking awesome. And we just drive right up in that bitch, right into the fucking middle of

We get out of the truck on my first day. I'm with this other guy. He was like a Panama guy. He was the guy that in Panama, he shot the machine gun in the barracks and killed all the guys before they got out of bed.

So like he had been to combat before. I drive my truck to the top of the mountain past the tanks. There's fucking savages, the tanks shooting, like total fucking chaos, right? There's press. We had to fight our way through the press. We had a guy almost shoot the press. It was great. Like this is the best thing ever, right? I'm thinking. So we get to the top of the mountain and like,

We're just getting mortared like you fucking read about. And I was like, I asked that guy, I was like, is this incoming or outgoing? Like, what's going on here, right? Like, he's like, why? I'm like, this is fucking great. And then I was just standing there, right? So he kind of like walked back by the truck and just left me there, right? And then like, I don't know, 10 years later, he was like, hey, remember that day on the top of the mountain? I was like, yeah. He was like, yo, those were incoming, but you had such a fucking smile on your face. I didn't want to ruin it for you. I was like...

I asked you incoming or out. If you said they were, I thought it was like the tank fire and kicking up the, I didn't know what the fuck was going on. So like, and at the same time, like in the book, kill bin Laden, like the, the fucking savage commander guy. I don't even remember his fucking name, but he's just like, yes, those are your men. And like, you know, Dalton Fury's like,

"Yes, those are my men." You know what I mean? And he's thinking, "What the fuck are they doing?" You know what I mean? And I'm just over there like, "This is fucking great." And like the Savage Commander, like, "Your men are very brave." Like, "Your men are brave." Like, "They fucking love me." You know what I mean? But yeah, that's kind of what it was like.

Total chaos. No idea what was going on all the time. Let's just make the best thing happen right now we can. So was that your first kinetic deployment? Yeah. As an operator? Yeah. Through Ranger, through SF? Yeah. And sounds like several years over at Delta as well. Yeah. So, I mean, how did that feel to you? Fucking amazing, man. Yeah.

And then like typical team shit. I got two guys arguing who's going to be in fucking charge. One's senior by time. One's actually in charge, but he's junior by time to the senior guy. So these guys are arguing. I just leave them arguing. I'd be like, yo, call for a fire mission, linear sheath, fan them out. You know what I mean? Half air, half ground. I'm just fucking working it. And then I'd be like,

You know, be like, hey, they asked you for danger clothes. Hey, stop arguing for a minute. Hey, how far are we from the bad guys? 400 yards. They said 600.

Yeah, send it. Get behind a rock. You know what I mean? I don't think I can fucking drop it. You know what I mean? And then, yeah, so these guys argued, and I just took the time to just focus and kill as many human beings as I could. They'd fucking shoot at us. We'd fucking level it. We'd move up. They'd shoot at us. We'd level it. We'd move up. Like, pretty simple. Was that affecting you at all that, I mean, that's your first, let's talk about your first kill. You said you were on the 50. Do you remember it? Yeah. Yeah.

Fucking McMillan 50, we shot dudes like, I don't know, 2,500 meters. The problem is, is like, look, this is why I'm not fucking claiming a million of these fucking kills. Because you can't get there from here. But I'll tell you this, the motherfuckers never shot again. How do you know? So is this confirmed kills? So like, yeah, we shot people, man, with that 50. It was fucking great. 2,500 meters? Yeah. That's your first? Yeah. Shit. Shit.

First 10 days of the war. That's your first engagement with a... Yeah. Later, I'd have to go to Special Forces Sniper School because I thought I was going to be a sniper team leader in the unit because I'd been a sniper for so long in the unit. And like I'd already had kills, had a big beard. They hated me over there. You know what I mean? Like, no, that's not right. But yeah, first 10 days of the war.

And then we just killed and captured so many people. Like, I don't think guys really understand, like, you know, the lone survivor story, right? The Taliban, you know, on the Navy SEAL team. You know what I'm saying? And it didn't go well for the SEALs. Okay. Yo, bring 400 of your friend. Tell them to bring their fucking trucks. Tell them to bring their machine guns. And like, we would just kill all comers.

All comers. You know what I mean? And you'll hear other guys. There's other times we did even more of this in Iraq. We just kill everyone that shows up. So it's like the lone survivor story. Like, I don't even understand it because we would kill hundreds of people in a fucking day. Like, yeah, show up. We'll kill you too. We don't even care. Like, I didn't understand how those things really happened. You know what I mean? Compared to my experience and what I saw. You know what I mean? And then so...

Literally, man. I can't tell you how many days I got where we just killed so many people you can't even count. So, I mean, no, basically zero rules of engagement. Just kill anything that shows up. I used to call it State Department by Shrek. I'm the fucking State Department here. I make the decisions. Kill everybody. Let's go. Yeah. I love chaos. It's my jam. I gave you chaos as my jam sticker. Yep. Let's talk about some of your singleton missions.

So the first one, I had to go back into Tora Bora because I had been there. The premise of going back into Tora Bora is there was a guy who supposedly him and his sons brought bin Laden out, right? They escorted him into Pakistan.

And then the goal was the goal, find him. So I had to go out alone. I was out for days, taxis, trucks, hitchhiking, whatever you want to call it. I get to the area. I had a Kent cigarette bag.

with a fucking, you know, a Super 8 VHS. I think it was Super 8 or maybe even 6 mil at that time, but 8 or 6 mil like cassettes in the little recorder, you know what I'm talking about? In a Kent cigarette bag and like a sat phone. And I just fucking took a cab out of Jalalabad towards Tora Bora Mountains and hitchhiked all the way till I got there. All by yourself. Yeah. Holy shit. Yeah. And then... I mean, how the fuck do you blend in?

You wear Savage stuff. And that worked? Yeah. No terp, no nothing? Just shut the fuck up. You know what I mean? Just shut the fuck up. Yeah, and then I had to act retarded at a couple of the checkpoints. You know what I mean? Got the AK to the chest. And I was like, if I open my mouth, I'm dead.

So that's not an option. You know what I mean? And then I just figured I'd mongoloid voice at volume 11. So the guy's like, la, la, la, la, la, la, la, la. I'm like, ra, ra, ra, ra, ra, ra. And the guy's like, get the fuck out of here. You know what I mean? And that's how I got through the checkpoints. And that's how I got the assault force through all those checkpoints as well. I mean, your adrenaline had to be going a million miles an hour.

Yeah, I would say this is any guy who is or girl who was abused as a kid can control that really well. Right. Because, you know, you're going to get beat by dad when he comes home drunk. Right. So it's always about controlling that. I think anyone who's been abused could handle those situations just fine. You know, how did you get picked for this?

Yeah, I was in Asadabad. It's where I was stationed and we were doing like all the northern valleys, like the Korengal Valley. Like I've been in there with just two fucking guys. We didn't have no problem until I seen that Restrepo movie. You know what I mean? I was like, I didn't even know that place was dangerous. I also used to drive through Ramadi by myself all the time while people were getting hung on bridges. But yeah, I think in Afghanistan, man, I don't know.

I don't know. That's a good question. I don't know if I have any words to describe it. I mean, did you volunteer for it? I kind of, I didn't know I could say no. I didn't volunteer. So in Assadabad, basically one day we ran out of beef jerky and Pop-Tarts.

I like them Pop-Tarts, you know what I mean? Like, I eat them brown sugar Pop-Tarts. You just keep them coming. Everything will be fucking fine. So, like, we're eating, like, fucking vegetables and, like, fucking goat on the local economy in a soda bad. And I went to my boss, like, yo, we're the fucking Defo, man. You know what I mean? I know in Bagram they got more fucking beef jerky than they could ever fucking eat. They got all the pokey, like...

Let me go fly back, fill my truck and bring it back.

And my boss is like, schedule those airplanes, do whatever the fuck you want. I was like, got it. So I did all the coordinations. Next night, fucking Chinook comes in, driving it alone on my Toyota truck, flies me to Bagram. I get out at Bagram. I drive to the chow hall, do my squadron guy. And I'm like, yo, and then the cook, the squadron cook, always make that guy your best friend. I'm like, yo, fill my truck, man. We ain't got shit in a side of that. He's like, oh yeah, I got you.

And then I see Dalton Fury and the SAR Major for him. And they were like, hey, what are you doing? I'm like, stealing fucking pokey from the chow hall. What does it look like I'm doing here? Like, you know what I mean? And they're like, you want to go on a mission? I was like, have you asked my boss? And they're like, we will. And I was like, yeah, I'll go on a mission. What is it? Right. And they're like, come this way. Right. And then so they want me to go out alone.

And the reason I had to go out alone is the general at the time said, we could only hit targets if there's USIs on, but you can't leave the wire. So when I came to Bagram, technically my status was in transit. So they kept me in transit through the whole mission. And then when I got back, they showed the video, USIs on, and they launched.

Interesting. Well, that's the kind of shit we had to do to fucking make change. How long did it take you to get up to Tora Bora? Fucking 10 fucking days, seven fucking... The whole thing was like, I was out there like 10 days or two weeks. Like, you ain't getting anywhere quick, you know what I mean? Riding in fucking savage taxis and fucking Jenga trucks. I mean, could you just describe that mission in as much detail as possible?

Yeah, I left out of a cab out of the safe house. I left out of a cab in Afghanistan and the fucking cab drove to wherever the fucking cab drove. I got out with the rest of the fucking savages. There's a goat in the car. People are sitting on my dick. Like fucking people smell like shit. I want to fucking throw up. How are you communicating? How are you telling them? I don't say shit. How are you telling them where you need to go? I don't say shit. I just fucking ride.

And then I got a truck. So was the cab an asset or was it a local Afghan guy? I think the safe house. Coordinated. Coordinated for a cab that goes that way, right? And then the cab gets to a place and the dude just gets everybody out and turns around. And then you kind of wait there for another thing. You know what I mean? So was it all coordinated? No. No.

So it was legitimate. Once I got out of that cab, I was on my own. And so how did you communicate to get in? I found a jingly truck. Well, first off, all you got to do is stand out there. Someone's going to pick you up. That's how they do it. They'll just give you a fucking ride. You know, they're just fucking picking up randos out there all the time. Like, you know what I mean? So picking up people ain't a thing. So I just kind of walk and I walk with the people, just kind of hang out and fucking...

Truck would come by. We all get in that truck. And then I kind of knew my way. I knew where Tora Bora was. I had already been there. Right. So I knew, you know, which way, you know, trucks going that way. No good. Trucks going that way. Fuck it. Let's see where it goes. I could always fucking yell, make noise and fucking jump out anytime I want. But I didn't really have to do any of that. Where are you sleeping? I fucking slept in a taxi or in the fucking jingly truck.

You know what I mean? With the Savage, it was like people sitting on my lap. When I was in the fucking truck, I had to sit in the middle. Every time the guy shifted, he like fucking handed my balls. And I'm like, yep, grabbed another gear. That's fine too. You know what I mean? Holy shit. As fucking legit as it gets, man. And then the truck driver had a route and he drove the valley to the end of the valley and

He'd crash at this house at the end of the valley. And the next day, he had a logging truck. And the next day, he'd drive out of the valley. And they, like, bring trees, cut down trees, whatever, logging trucks. Anyway, so when I rode with him, we passed the target house. Literally, it's just kind of like me, him at that point. I kind of under my arm out the window and fucking—

Got that dude. Luckily, I think he was standing on the fucking front porch when I made the video. Like, it couldn't PID and the building at the same time. It was fucking... The video was great. Who was it? That dude. Fuck, I don't remember his name. You know what I mean? But he was the guy where him and his sons were supposed to bring Bin Laden out of the mountains. Right? So...

I do the recon. We get to this fucking house at the end of the thing, at the end of the like valley. And you know how it's all terraced and shit. It's a fucking riverbed. They're all terraced. So we go to this house at the end of the valley and I'm just with this driver guy and we go in this house and there's dudes and like,

They start drinking tea. They give me the black tea, which I had learned earlier in terror and count will put you to sleep for three days because that's the opium tea, right? They're all drinking clear tea. They give me black tea. I kind of knew the difference. Drank it anyway. As soon as it was bedtime, the lights were out. I took my speed so I wouldn't go to sleep. And then in the middle of the night, I dragged that truck driver into his truck at gunpoint.

and fucking pointed the other way, like, "Room, room." And he's like looking at me like, "What the fuck?" Because I think he actually thought I was crazy before then. You know what I mean? And then we got in a truck and drove away. And then at that house, I thought either they were going to kill me, they had like this little boy they were abusing or some shit. I didn't even want to know what was going on in the next room. Never seen any females.

And then as soon as I got that video, I wanted out of there. This is fucking mission success. Every second you are out there at this time, I am risking mission failure because I already reached what we needed. So I wanted to get back as soon as possible. And I'll tell you this, being out alone versus being in a troop or with other task force, 30, 60, 12, whatever, however many people, I fucking learned 100 to 1.

what the fuck to do that day. You know what I mean? Because I can only count on me. You know what I mean? So my learning curve was through the roof. And ever since then, it's changed the way I see, think, do everything I do. Did you have any type of communications with anybody back in the rear? When I got back to the safe house in Jalalabad is when I made my first radio contact.

Holy shit. So 10 days, was it a 10-day mission or was it 10 days up to Tora Bora? Yeah, probably about seven. Okay, so. A couple days, get back. Gotcha. And then the assault force came in. We went back and got the guy. There was another couple days. The whole thing, maybe two weeks. So you actually had to personally get back with that video. There was no way to send the video. Nope.

And sending video was like in its infancy then. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like if I could send the video, it would only been like, it took six hours to send a three second clip. You know how it was back then on Satcom and shit, like kind of existent, but really like not like it is now. You know what I mean? Yeah. So I had to get back with that video. Shit. So how was it when you got back? Got back to the safe house in Jalalabad, uh,

contacted the rear, talked to, you know, Commander Fury. I drew the fucking assault plan on like a napkin or fucking piece of paper. And it was like stick figure dudes to trucks, to house, to trucks, to like...

And then that one option, we just drive in, we hit the house, we drive out, right? That would take forever. Next option, drive in, helicopter out, airplane to Bagram, right? So it was like, you know, airplane, helicopter, truck, house. Later, like whatever general called me Picasso. I've seen your drawings.

And everyone made fun of me, but like, yo, Chicago public school education. You can't take your books. Can't leave the school. Like, of course I'm drawing fucking sticks figures here. You know what I mean? Like you didn't send me with a proper reporting format. I don't fucking know what to say or do. Right. So like literally the assault pan was a Trojan horse.

based off of my fucking stick figures um but what happens i get back i i rented uh i got more trucks like now i got a terp we talked to the driver like i handed the driver like this wad of cash when we got back and he was just like ah it's like fucking eight dollars you know what i mean like um and then i driver everyone got paid but uh we filled the trucks with um

Like them Savage mattresses. You know how it's not really a mattress? It's just like foam, like twin bed size. Literally knee deep in the back of the trucks for guys to hang out. And then they were doing the Trojan horse. So what I didn't know is while they were at Bagram, they built facades for the back of the trucks that look like water bottles. You know what I mean? So if you lifted a thing, it was water bottles, cases of water.

But it was a facade on a piece of plywood, so they couldn't see the assaulters. And it was like one box wide or something. So the guys flew in the Jalalabad, met me with the Jingley trucks, got off the trucks, on the Jingley trucks, five or six hours, five or six checkpoints, a couple sketchy ones to get through. Why sketchy?

What happened? I'm going to tell you what sketchy checkpoints look like in Afghanistan. They'll have that one little string in the middle of the road.

on like a two bricks on this side and two bricks on this side you seen that before yeah fuck with that string and there's a 50 cal over here that's just gonna gun everybody down you know what i mean on the top of a hill over here right so oh and when i say gun everybody down they'll gun down the other afghans because once they start shooting it ain't gonna fucking stop and they'll kill everybody and then they'll be like oh we shot akhmed um

But yeah, these checkpoints are just fucking... You can't fuck with them. You're not going to run it. You're not going to fuck with them, right? And they want something, right? So one of the checkpoints, a guy was shaking me down. I just grabbed a dirty fucking blanket kind of off the floor on the bottom of the truck. And the guy snatched it from me and like waved us through. So...

When we came back through, I bought a bunch of blankets and I just hang and hand in blankets to the guys. And everyone's like, ah, because it's a cold night, middle of the night. Everybody loved them blankets. That's how I got the assault force through. And I had already been through with my truck driver a few times. You know what I mean? So like, as a familiar face. Yeah. Yeah. So you get in. Yeah. So assault force comes in.

One of the sources, the source that gave this guy up only gave him up because he wanted to fuck one of his wives. And when we raided the house, there was a super hot one that is not the one he wanted. Anyway, he led the assault force to the house. I kind of, as the sniper, sealed the backside from the village, right? They're raiding the house. Villagers start to kind of like, a lot of villagers were coming about to overrun us, right? And...

I just fired over their heads with an AK because I had an AK. That's what you carry, right? What I didn't know is every fucking laser on the assault force is on my body. Like, yo, it was me, motherfuckers. Go back to work. You know what I mean? Like, these lasers over. AK fire, right? Everyone's like, what the fuck is that, right? It's just me. And then...

We raid the house, get the guy and his sons. Like, his kids were sleeping with a fucking water buffalo. Like, I'm trying to open this shit. We're clearing the outbuildings later. Trying to open this. It's fucking dark. Like, trying to get in, open this door. Finally, shine a fucking light. It's a water buffalo. Like, he's laying on the ground, and I'm pushing against his face. And he's just like, ah!

Holy shit. And then like little kids stand up from like behind him like, and they're sleeping with this water buffalo to stay fucking warm. Wow. So the kids slept with a fucking water buffalo. I think there was a donkey in there too. It was like fucking bizarre. Anyway, first time I seen a water buffalo. Fucking surprise, you know. Yeah, we cleared the house. And then I left the next morning. Helicopters came in. They exfiled.

Went back to Jalalabad Airport with him. That's our first snatch of the war, right? And then I had to make my way out with the trucks later. And then I got to Jalalabad Airport a couple days later. Let's take a quick break. Okay. Thank you for listening to The Sean Ryan Show. If you haven't already...

please take a minute, head over to iTunes, and leave the Sean Ryan Show a review. We read every review that comes through, and we really appreciate the support. Thank you. Let's get back to the show. All right, Shrek, we're back from the break. We just talked about the Singleton mission in Tora Bora. I want to move into you working with the Pakistani commandos. Mm-hmm.

Let's start that. Love that. Yeah. Yeah, I was a major in the Pakistani Special Forces. What's up? How'd that happen? Yeah, I got told we were crossing the border, going in to control both sides of the border, right? And we were supposed to go with the Pakistani Special Forces guys, right? And basically, me and another guy, we were like company commanders. We were in charge of a company. Yeah.

And we did other side of the border shit. Why were you secure in that border?

Yeah, because they thought bin Laden might cross at some time. You know what I mean? We all know that was bullshit, but we're securing the border, right? So I had been to other, they call it AFO, right? Advanced Force Operations, right? Back then it was like black magic. You know what I mean? Who's going to do this? First off, war requires bodies. And what everyone doesn't know is everyone's going to fucking have to do it before too long. But

At that point, you know, like AFO, like this was a new thing. And then we had the opportunity to put guys on the other side of the border also. Why the fuck not?

you know what i mean um and then yeah basically super easy job like we'd get intel we'd drive them to point x definitely not tell them anything you know what i mean uh and then uh be like go raid that compound and they'd be like major how did you know there'd be so many land mines in that compound like i never told him but like i could read the gps that's what i wanted to say but like be like i just left it a mystery you know what i mean like

But yeah, we fucking did all kinds of shit on the other side of the border. What kind of stuff? Well, you know, the fucking Pakistanis, first off, don't want bin Laden or al-Qaeda in their fucking country. And I know this might sound hard to believe, and this was hard for me to take, but like the Pakistani special forces guys are as proud as Pakistan as we are America. Yeah.

And they want what's right for fucking their country. You know what I mean? Now, it's hard for me to grasp. Like, wait, you guys are patriots of Pakistan? That kind of sounds ridiculous to me. But the reality is it's where you live. It's where you work. It's where you grew. You're a special forces guy. Of course, you're a patriot of Pakistan. You know what I mean? And these guys wanted to do, they're on the side of right. What is a mission that stands out that happened over there in Pakistan more than the rest of them?

Man, we'd run up on these Al-Qaeda compounds and like they would want to surround them and like wait them out. And like in the middle of the night, they'd come out guns a blazing and disappear into the dark. You know what I mean? He'd be like, yo, let us level the compound right now. And like they'd be like, no, we wait them out. Really not much happened on the other side of the border per se, like gunfights or

in the frontier providences so it's pretty boring in that way but we did get fucking rocketed and mortared every fucking night just like afghanistan probably worse i will tell you one of our first missions we were at hakani's house

looking for hakani and supposedly he dressed up like a girl he's one of the girls and they're like no we can't touch the girls it's like one of these girls is a fucking boy but you can't touch girls in general um that's the same place where bird doll was i raided the place that they fucking housed him how crazy oh shit yeah hakani's place across the border

What about after Pakistan? Where'd you go? I left Pakistan. I was shitting in a fucking hole in a fucking compound in fucking Pakistan. And I got the word my team had moved to Baghdad. And I was out of there that day. Literally, I got on a fucking bird, a helicopter, went to Islamabad,

Got on a civilian plane, flew to Kuwait City, got off the plane in Kuwait City. And like, I don't speak the fucking language, but there's a C-130 on the tarmac waiting for me. I'm trying to get to there. So I'm trying to tell all the fucking man dress guys in Kuwait City, I need to get to that plane. And finally, some dude walked me behind customs, everything fucking fired up some bus.

like the big ass airport buses. I'm the only one on it. Drove me to the plane. I get to the back of the plane and the dude waiting for me is like, you're fucking late. You know what I mean? It was like, motherfucker, you ever tried to tell a dude you need to get to that plane without knowing how to tell a dude? Like, come on. I did my fucking best. You know what I mean? So like I get on a plane, we combat land in the biop and then that's where my job was. I was in, I was at the VVIP for a while.

So when you get to Baghdad, at some point in time, you'd been named the sheriff of Baghdad. How did that come about? No, that didn't come till much later. Much later. Yeah, much later. Well, how did it come about? This guy, when I was a SAR major, we hired a guy who was a retired SAR major, worked for the State Department. He worked the Crisis Action Center for the embassy in Baghdad through the war years.

Got paid a ton of money to handle crises for the State Department, but you know what kind of crisis you handle while there's a war going on? None. There's a war going on. Like, he didn't do shit. Finally, one day his wife told him he had to come home. He couldn't stay gone no more, but he's killed it for money working for the State Department. So he retired out of Bragg, looking for jobs on Bragg, comes to work at JSOC.

He's like, "Hey, Sergeant Major, what size shirt you wear?" I'm like, "I'm a double, triple X. What's up?" And he's like, "I got a bunch of Sheriff of Baghdad t-shirts that when I was at the State Department, you want them?" I'm like, "Look, for PT, for jujitsu, I ruin t-shirts." I was like, "Bring them. I'll wear them." I just started wearing Sheriff of Baghdad, a ton of them. I wear Sheriff of Baghdad t-shirts everywhere. That's how it happened? That's how it happened.

That is not what I was expecting. Yeah. And then, you know, Dave Kramer works for Magpul. He was like the Arcteryx guy forever. Solomon's son too. Anyway, he's like...

I'm like only guy I knew that knew like about big business at the time. So I was like, hey, you know, I was thinking about, you know, I got to have a business name or whatever. What do you think? He was like, funniest thing I ever heard is you and that sheriff of Baghdad. If you don't just name and your business is sheriff of Baghdad, I don't know what name you should name it. And I was like, well, if he says that, I'll do it. And I did it. So tell me about Iraq. Man.

So, yeah. So I land in Iraq. I get to the VVIP. Like, my fucking desk is a marble table 60 fucking feet long. I'm in this ornate room with bath party symbols on the ceiling. It's wood. It's marble. We got like a fucking four, six head gold shower. Like, I'm like, yo, this is war that...

thing hitting me in the nuts, the gold thing that's low. Like this is how you fucking war right here. Not fucking shitting in a hole. So on one day I went from like shitting in a hole to like fucking gold showers. Loved every fucking second of it ever since then. It's fucking great.

How was the op tempo over there? Iraq is amazing, man. We do 10 hits, 20 hits. Fuck, I don't know how many a night. You know what I mean? 10 to 20 hits a night? Oh, yeah. It was awesome. How the fuck do you do 10 to 20 hits a night? Well, not only that, but during the Saddam fucking days, we might have to clear a whole village. Like, that could be 100 houses tonight. Like, door to door looking for these fucking Saddam sightings. You know what I mean? It was fucking amazing. It was amazing, man. I mean...

You know, in the unit, I think they call it like a shred fest where you do like 24, 36 hours, target after target after. As many as you could do, there's another one we could hit. Somewhere else, another one, another one, another one. That's what I rack was, shred fest. And then my squadron, you don't want to sit around the house tonight because we're going to get drunk and break shit. So...

fucking we don't care if it's Joe shit the fucking rag man let's go get that bitch tonight keep me fucking busy and I think a couple nights like guys fucked up the house and the commander from then on was like okay you guys don't get any days off and it's like that's what we've been fucking saying the whole time like you know one's dying at brag we want to go out every fucking night you know what I mean so we my squadron man

We were in the beginning, I believe, way more aggressive than other squadrons, like by far. You know what I mean? Can you talk about, I mean, let's just talk about some of the operations that you were a part of there.

Let's see. Saddam was captured nine days after I left country, and me and another guy worked the intel on Saddam the whole time. I rolled up his tailor. You ever see the video where Saddam shoots the Mauser in the air? Yeah. And he's got the fox fur hat on? I own that hat. No way. Yeah, I own that hat.

Nice. Yeah. But I rolled up his tailor. Like, I had all his clothes at one point, right? And I got this Italian sweater, and it's, like, blue and, like, a red stripe or some shit. I wear it on Christmas Eve. I look like a fat man in a little coat. Like, it's like a large, you know, my belly, my beer belly's hanging out the bottom, you know what I mean? Like, I normally wear that on Christmas Eve. I got a sweater from him, you know what I mean? Yeah.

But yeah, we rolled up his tailor, everybody that fucking washed his dick, we rolled them up. We were fucking... We were climbing it. And then nine days after I left, C-Squadron got them. And I think we already had the intel and it was already in the works. We had to go home for Christmas. So they caught them nine days after I left, but...

You know, man, we fucking one of those like kings or one of the deck of cards, you know what I mean? Like I paid no attention to it other than getting to X off the poster on the wall. But like, you know, one of those guys, we fucking low vis shotgun breach the front door. Right. Fucking held his family hostage, told his family, contact them.

Until he gives himself in. Fucking guy turned himself in like three days later in Mosul or some shit. You know what I mean? We took his family hostage just fucking in his family home. Like we got his sisters, his grandma, his mom. Like, yeah, we did a lot of weird shit for Saddam.

We captured Saddam's. Saddam had a favorite piece of ass. Really? Oh, yeah. His favorite fuck was this lady. And she was not hot, but she was married. So we figured maybe she knew where he went. So we rolled up her husband one day. I had him go to Saddam's tailor store.

I had the tailor tell them to come to the store. And then I had... We had these Mohawk guys. You know the Mohawks? Mm-mm. We had locals that helped us, and we trained them. And then they ended up becoming, later, the CT force, right? Okay. We had a couple guys we trained, we trusted, right? So I told my guys I was...

I was in a surveillance van out front, my minivan. If you ever see the picture where I'm all sweaty in the back of a van, this is me kind of watching over what's going on. So I didn't tell anybody. I didn't have time to tell my boss or anybody. And then my two guys, I was like, hey, if we can't get this guy, quick.

go start a fight on the streets to get them all out of the store. So I had my two Mohawks start fist fighting in front of the store, just like anywhere in the world, right? Everyone comes outside to see what's going on. Literally, the guy comes out to watch and like the assault team, like he's standing his back to the door they're going to snatch him with. And literally, shoot, shoot.

Gymnize. Fucking drive away. And then they're like, where'd the guy go? He disappeared in the crowd. My boss is like, he disappeared. I'm like, no, the assault team's got him. He's like, who the fuck are the guys fighting? Those are our guys. Did you tell him the fight? I was like, yeah. He was like, you should have fucking told me. You know what I mean? I'm like, yeah. This happens so quick sometimes, you know? But yeah, we captured his favorite piece of ass husband thinking that might help. It didn't. But yeah.

In capturing everyone in his inner circle, what I would tell you is they were all Christians. Were they really? If you touch Saddam, I don't care if you touch his dick or you fucking put clothes on his body. If it touches him, it was Christians. Because Christians martyr themselves, they go to hell. Muslims martyr themselves, they're fucking going to heaven.

So his inner circle, the people that fed him, clothed him, fucking washed his dick, we rolled them all up. They were all Christians. Interesting. Very interesting. And that's why there was always Christians in Iraq. And that's why Iraq was fairly Western. Because he had no beef with Christians. And he knew as human beings, less likely to kill him. That's all he wanted around him, his inner circle. Now all the military commanders or whatever, fucking sheiks, I don't know, whatever the fuck they were. They were all savages, but...

His inner circle was Christians. I'll be damned. I did not know that. And then we snatched the guy who used to give Saddam baths. I was inside the tailor's house on the roof.

I went to the tailor's house and I knew he was supposed to be coming. I was kind of early setting shit up. He showed up early. Me and another guy had to go to the roof. I called the assault force, right? As he was driving away, literally ran into the Humvee of the assault force. Snatched that guy. Yeah, we did a lot of...

The unique snatches for the Becca cards should be its fucking movie on its own. You know what I mean? We did a lot of great shit. I mean, I got to be honest. People always try to thank me for my service. I'm not the motherfucker you should be thanking. You should thank the kid that was grinding. I did whatever the fuck I wanted. And it was amazing. All the time, amazing. And it was as I learned in Afghanistan...

We need to be much fucking smarter if we wanted to win. And I also knew there's not... We can't do enough hits to win this war. We can't. There's no fucking way. You know what I mean? What did you think of Iraq? Strategically, taking out Saddam? Mm-hmm. Fucking horrible for the world. Look where we are now. Yeah. Should have left that motherfucker. I'd have pumped him full of all kinds of shit to fucking beat Iran again. You know what I mean? However...

We gave it all away. It's a fucking shit show, just like Afghanistan. But the reality is, is this is how it fucking goes. You know what I mean? Don't get upset. It's the fine print. You should have read it. Do you think we should have ever been there on the first place? I think there's no benefit to fucking taking Saddam out. I also thought there was no benefit. You know, Afghanistan, Mullah Armar came out years later and said, George Bush gave us 48 hours and invaded at hour 40.

He said if he would have gave me full 48 hours, his answer was give up bin Laden. No shit. I did not know that either. The shit the fucking media doesn't like to put out. How do you know that? Because I read. Where did you read that? Oh, man, I don't even remember. But yeah, he wanted to give up bin Laden and we attacked too soon. And then he was like, fuck him. Interesting. It's almost like we wanted the war. Imagine that.

Now, I wanted the war, too. Don't get me wrong. I was 100% for that shit. Rocket, mortars, fucking send it. Let's go. No one dies on Bragg, you know? So I was all for it. But strategically, meh. You believe in your bosses, sometimes they get it wrong. You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Did you experience loss of a teammate ever? Yeah, fuck yeah. All the time. Even in training, man, like...

Man, the guy I was partnered with in Bosnia all the time, fucking Rotorblade took the top of his head off one night, like Thursday night live fire, you know? Holy shit. Yeah. Yeah, people die. Did that affect you at all? No. It did? Fuck, if you died doing what you love, I'd fucking high five you for that. I'd high five myself for that. You know what I mean? Like, you died doing the one thing you're here for, not a better death.

How many teammates have you lost? I don't know, man. So many now. Fucking cancer. Cancer. If you'd have told me, join the Delta Force and be fighting cancer the rest of your fucking time or your buddies are going to die of cancer. I made a state in South America banging Colombian girls. You know what I mean? So lots of guys. Everybody dies. I'm going to die. I'm not going to let it ruin my day. You know? Mm-hmm. Where did you run into Tim Kennedy? Yeah. So...

I left the unit. I was kind of like in the SIF company.

We really hadn't broke down into troops yet. So I was a team sergeant, Timmy's team sergeant. Well, before that, he was just, I was in the dojos of brag for something to do at night as a single guy, just go down to the dojos of brag and just fucking roll jits with people. And then back then being a blue belt, like they're like, oh, sir, are you teaching today? Like, hell no. I just came here to choke some of you lazy fuckers. You know what I mean? Like I'm not teaching shit, you know? And they're like,

And the instructor back then was a fucking purple belt. You know what I mean? Like, so like this kid's in the dojo and literally like he's just fucking sitting on me. And I'm like thinking, this ain't a move. How the fuck do I defend that? Do I put a foot? Like, do I lock up? What the fuck? And he's just kind of like sitting on me like, come on, let's do something. Let's go. You know what I mean? I'm like, who the fuck is this kid sitting on me? So then that happens a couple of times.

And finally, I'm like, hey, who the fuck are you? Where did you learn Jets? Like, no one around here is at this level. You know what I mean? Like, where do you come from? And he said, you know, grew up in California, fighting Chocolate Dell, right? His backstory. So he tells me that. And I was like, fuck, man. I was like, you know, you're in the Q course. What group? Do you know what group you're going to or where you're going? Like, where are you at in the kind of like the pipeline or whatever they call it?

And he was like, "No, it's kind of early on in the process." So I was like, "Well, I'm in the SIF company. How would you like to come to the SIF company?" And of course, it's the most advanced company. You can't just get there as a new guy at the time. So he was like, "Yeah, I do that." So literally, I went to my SAR major, right? And I'm like, "Hey, I want to get a kid out of the Q course." And they're like, "Why?"

Out of all the people in group, you want a kid in the Q course? Why? Pick someone else. We got fucking hundreds of guys. And I'm like, hey, I think he's a black belt in jujitsu, right? This could really be great for our hand-to-hand program at a minimum. We don't even have to put him on the team. Just let him be the fucking hand-to-hand guy here. We got slots. Like,

So my SAR major was like, well, the guy who runs the Q course, my best friend, let's call him. Like, so he's on speaker, like, Hey, we want to get a kid over here out of your, out of the Q course. And he's like, why ain't got enough dudes in seventh group over there. What the fuck you want with the kids over here for like, that was the answer. Right. And they were like, well, there's, there's not a rule why you can't take him, but like, why do you want him? You know what I mean?

And then, yeah, they said I could have him and then he came right to my team. And then I thought he would help the hand-to-hand program, but kind of didn't. You know what I mean? Why? Because we were busy. But yeah, he was just fighting in the dojos at Bragg, fucking just sitting on me. Why did you leave Delta? A couple reasons. Divorce. Messy, messy, fucking divorce.

Uh, they don't, they don't like that. They don't like that at all. Why? That's, I mean, that's pretty fucking common, isn't it? Fuck if I know, you know what I mean? Like, uh, I would say this is, I don't know. Um, if your divorces get messy, they'll fucking cut you. Gotcha. If anything's messy, they'll fucking cut you. So what were, what was your position over there when you left? A team leader. A team leader. Yeah. Did you ever go back?

No. I ended up getting promoted to sergeant major. That's why I went to the J staff. I kind of went back, but I was already kind of too senior to backtrack. Gotcha. So I worked on the J staff. What is the J staff? I don't know what that is. JSOC. What were you doing there? I was the money sergeant major. Gotcha. How was it transitioning from Delta back into Special Forces? Man, it was crazy for a minute there because I joined the Army when it was the paper Army.

And I didn't exist to the Army. So here I am, a new team sergeant, but I'm getting paid from the Army, but the Army think I don't exist and I couldn't do anything until they could prove I was actually in the Army. So I had to go back to the unit, go to the personnel section, have them unfuck my records into the Army side because I was never in the Army when they crossed over digitally.

Wow. So it took three weeks. They're like, are you sure you're in the army? You think I'd fucking be here? You know what I mean? What the fuck? Yeah. And then magically, when I got the seventh group, we got orders to work under the unit in Iraq. You know what I mean? Why? The task force commander was my jujitsu partner. And then we went to Iraq and worked under the unit. How'd that go? Fucking awesome. Are you kidding me? Yeah.

Man, we got Zarqawi's number two one night. We were with B Squadron. They were all out. Commander came to me. My number two's on the grid. Can you get him? Like, don't fuck this up. I was like, I got this.

I think we got his number two or three guy one night just because everyone else is fucking busy. And then it goes back to what I already said. There ain't enough of us to hit enough targets to win this fucking war today. So they needed SF teams. They needed Rangers help. They needed... Fuck, there was times we had whole brigades tasked to a season area and just door to door that bitch, especially in the fucking Saddam days, right? So that's just kind of how it worked.

So my troop goes over, works under... We were under Blue Squadron fucking SEALs for a while. Complete fucking ass wound. Why's that? Oh, those guys are fucking horrible. Wyman and the boys. You know Wyman? I don't. Anyway, yeah, it was fucking horrible. Like, we had to work under him in Al-Asad. The compound in Al-Asad was built by the Delta Force. How do I know? Because I was part of the crew that built these...

Pre-staging bases so the unit could go anywhere en masse and fucking hit targets now and have a place for guys to sleep, helicopters of fuel. War's logistics. And they're like, can't use our gym. You know, use special forces, guys. You can't use our gym. You can't fucking use our laundry. And it's like, I built this motherfucking place. And they're like, so what? So, yeah, we worked under Blue. So what we did is...

We took all their shit targets, fucking dumped them on our lap. And I ran it just like I would have in A squadron. We fucking hit targets every night. We pulled every thread. We didn't go out and kill everybody. That's how you get intel. You'll never get anywhere going out and killing everybody. So we basically climbed the fucking ladder and like one night, fucking their number one, we worked our way up to like their number one guy.

And then like they told me no helicopters the night. So I thought there was no helicopters. They jumped on the bird and hit our target, which was their number one guy. And we worked ourselves up. So like the next day, day later, they told us they're bringing the boats and they wanted us to ride the rivers. And like I was like, boat assaults? Bucket list?

check you know what I mean so I was like I don't give a fuck boat fucking truck helicopter I gives a fuck you know what I mean we're getting some and then the task force commander came down was like he was like you know hey we captured blah blah blah and I was standing there with him and he was like the task force commander was like

He's like, we're bringing in the boats. We're going to have the SF guys in the boats. And he's like, let me get this straight. You are the premier SEALs in the world. And you're going to put your special forces guys on boats? And he was like, these guys work their way up through the bottom of your target deck to make you successful. You're going to put them on boats? He looked at me and he was like, John, you're going under B squadron in Baghdad today. I was like, OK, boss. So then we worked under B squadron.

And that was just fucking great. Just fucking great. You know what I mean? Because, you know, you don't know what target you're going to get because if they rolled on another target and another priority comes out and this might be the only time, you know what I mean? It's fucking great under B squadron, right? And then B squadron left, A squadron killed Zarqawi that day, one of those days.

And then A Squadron came in and we killed like whoever was next after fucking Zarqawi in like a month or so. I don't know. It didn't take long. But yeah, we were with B Squadron when they got Zarqawi. Nice. Yeah, we were all... So was Tim. We were all out that day. Nice. Nice. Yeah, Tim talked pretty extensively about that. Yeah, if you look at like the who killed Zarqawi picture, we're the guys in the DCUs. Nice. Nice. You know, with...

All the killing that you were a part of ever, do you feel like that ever affected you? Yeah, fuck yeah, man. Like I've had every fucking symptom of PTSD. Like all these guys, whatever their fucking symptoms are, right? Like guys cry about this shit. I've had every fucking one of them. You know what I mean? Like, and you know what I mean? The problem with the getting hung up in that is it makes you one chapter of a book.

Your book ain't over. There might be more chapters. There might be better fucking chapters. Get over yourself. Move the fuck on. And I used to always tell guys to let it go, right? And I tell you right now, say, let it go. Let it go. How do you feel? I feel great. Imagine doing that for 10 years.

This is how I got rid of all that PTSD shit. And then I found out some of my PTSD, fucking the forgetfulness. You know, guys, I'm driving. I don't know where I'm going. Like, that's a common one I heard all the time. Same here. You know, first and foremost, I went and bought a fucking TomTom. I don't need to know where I'm going. This motherfucker is going to take me. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And then I realized...

uh this is a brain cognitive function issue has nothing to do with tbi has to do with your brain getting the proper proteins mct oil fix your brain you're less forgetful now is this a symptom of ptsd or is this a fucking symptom of life

The next thing, fucking drinking. You know what I mean? Hey, what are you drinking? Two bottles, five bottles a night? Yo, five bottles a night? Like, I'm not going to tell you not to drink, but I'd tell you tonight, cut it down to two and a half. The reason you're fucking mean in the morning is you're actually hung over and used to it.

That just makes you mean. Cut it down to two and a half bottles. You know what I mean? I'm not going to tell anyone to quit or not do something. I just say, fucking use it wisely. You know what I'm saying? So I've had every symptom of PTSD, TBI, like the VA gave me a zero.

Right? And why is because I learned to let it go. And I learned that some of this shit was diet. Some of it was brain function. Some of it was fucking drinking, you know, the fucking hall pass. Okay. And this is the, you know, I did this with Timmy. This is why Timmy doesn't have PTSD or no one that's ever worked for me. Because if a guy made a kill for me today, that night we're having drinks and on the spot, I told him, this is exactly what I expect you to do. You did a great job. Fuck.

Fucking end of discussion. Now, as your boss, I'm going to cut off the shirt and we're going to look at your fucking shot placement because marksmanship is my problem, not yours. But let's go look at those shots. And I check fucking bullet holes all the time. No shit. Fuck yeah. I'm in charge of the marksmanship here. If we're fucking this up right now, this shit's fucked up. We need to fix it right now. So you would go on target, cut all the shirts off everybody that you guys had just killed? Yeah, show the guys their shots.

And I'd tell them they did a great job on the spot. And when we got back later, I'd make sure we all had a drink. And everybody came by and fucking said, thank you, and shook this guy's hand. You think you'd ever have a problem if someone did that for you? What were satisfactory shot placement for you? Everybody's shots were perfect. I never seen bullshit shots. My marksmanship works. Roger that. I've never seen any bad shots. You know what I mean? They're all kind of good center mass shots.

You know what I mean? And then doing that, what I realized is hide above boar for killing people fucking doesn't matter. It's two and a half inches. You know what I mean? Okay. If I was supposed to shoot here and I hit there,

Would anyone ever know when they cut the shirt off? Fuck no. So there's that. You know what I mean? Yeah. But yeah, guys shot good shots and I'd make sure on the spot I told them good job, man. You know, because that's the time when you're questioning this shit. But what happens is if someone doesn't do that, you're going to walk away. You're going to drown it in alcohol.

Right. We're going to celebrate with alcohol. You're going to drown it in alcohol. And then it's like a fucking hall pass. But the problem is the hall pass is fucking five years old. And now you've got to unfuck all of this to get back to that, to unfuck all of that, to make all of this good. Where did you learn that? Where did you learn? Did you come up with that ripping the shirts off? Yeah. Just something I did. Something I always did. Yeah. Yeah.

I wouldn't rip them off. I'd cut them with my shears or a knife. You know what I mean? Yeah. I'd be quick about it. And then there's sometimes you can't do that. If we could, I would. Interesting. I've never heard that before. Yeah. It fucking works. I mean, and I could tell you this, the guys that work for me, I don't think any of them have PTSD like that. That's great. But it's a...

I don't think PTSD is a war thing. I think it's a humanity thing. I think you could be a kid, see your fucking cousin get hit by a train. You can be fucked up since that day. Oh yeah. You know what I mean? So I don't, I don't think it's a war thing. I don't think it's a soldier thing. You know what I mean? I do. I know what you're saying. What are some of the differences that you saw between your time in Afghanistan and your time in Iraq? Yeah.

How would you differentiate those? Yeah. I would say this, the beginning of Afghanistan, fucking Rangers, the army, all of them just fucking sucked. Like,

first hit in iraq the rangers like fucking shot up some old people my squadron fucking sergeant major like puts me on brain detail why because i had a fucking pickup truck because i drove from the fucking vvip fucking ken block with a fucking map to meet the squadron fucking downtown on a hit that's like 16 guys that look like saddam with mustaches you know what i mean it's like

Whoever called this place in, they were right. There's 16 motherfuckers in here that look like Saddam. You know what I mean? Only because like that's a popular look.

So I drive my pickup truck, squadron raids the house, rangers shoot up the blocking positions for no reason, like fucking skipping 50 cow rounds down the Baghdad street. It was awesome. Until I was on blood and guts detail. I wasn't happy about that. Not my kill. I don't want blood. I don't want that blood. I make the kill, I'll get bloody. I don't make the kill,

Blood's yours. You know what I mean? So this kid in the turret, he's like, get him to ceasefire. What the fuck are they shooting at? So I go over there. I'm like, hey, ceasefire. Finally, the kid, I'm like, hey. And he looks down. And I'm like, come here. And he leans over. I jank him out of the turret. And I'm like, you're fucking messed. You're killed. Put him in the back of my fucking truck. And I go.

They killed old people and then the medic, you know, like these fucking old people are in pain. And I'm like, hey, the ranger medic, give him morphine, right? And he's like, I'm not allowed to give morphine to the enemy. I was like, do these old people look like enemies to you?

And he was like, I can't give morphine to the enemy. And I'm like, you're going to give these fucking people painkillers or I'm going to fuck you up in the back of this truck right fucking now. And he was like, he gave them their morphine. Right. And then they end up, you know, we got them to the cash, probably end up dying anyway. Right. But the beginning of the war, they were like just ate up later towards Iraq. Total professional force, 100 percent value added.

So I would say the beginning of Afghanistan, the army was not ready for this. And I would say we weren't either, but we were more capable to adapt than the army. And I think that initial raid in Iraq, I think they fired those kids on my squadron's recommendations. You know what I mean? And that's when we were in the beginning of Iraq. Why are we even bringing the Rangers? Fuck them. They're a fucking—they're a casually producing weapon. Yeah.

At times, we don't need casualties. Yeah. You know what I mean? And then later, it became a more professional force, like fucking just killing it later. So Iraq, I really believe, professionalized most of our special operations in a much bigger sense. Interesting. Interesting. What about just regular operations? Yeah.

What about it? What do you think the differences were? What were the differences for you working Afghanistan versus Iraq? Yeah, Afghanistan, you're always at distance, always far away. Iraq is more like real warfare. You know what I mean? I'd also say this is the big army wanted none of Afghanistan.

I didn't want to fight in the mountains. Helicopters don't fly there. You can't drive tanks there. So the big army is like, whoa, Afghanistan's for you special forces types. You know what I mean? That's really how they played Afghanistan, right? I call that bullshit card on the fucking army for that. They're just fucking pussies and didn't want to jump the fucking mountains like we were. And then Iraq comes and the army's like, whoa, this is our fucking war. Why? Because you could drive fucking tanks down the street?

Right? So the army was much more into Iraq than Afghanistan ever. Let's move into your time. You went back to Delta as a sergeant major, correct? I went to the J staff, yeah. How was that? Being a sergeant major? Mm-hmm. Fucking ass. You hated it. Fucking hated every single day. You strike me as a person that would hate that position. Fucking ass wound every fucking day of my life. I fucking hated my job. How did that happen?

You get promoted to sergeant. I mean, did you want to get promoted? No, I didn't put in a packet. I didn't do, you know how you got to take a picture, put in a packet. Like there's, you know, as an NCO, there's your professional stuff. So you get promoted in that. Yeah, I didn't do any of that shit. I didn't give a fuck. I didn't want none of it. But I made, I fucking got promoted anyway. So you hated it. Fucking hated it. Then you left. I retired as soon as I could. Yeah.

And so when did you start your training company? Started training in probably 2005. I retired in 11. So I had been doing some classes on leave and I just go to the bosses and be like, Hey, these guys want me to shoot with them for like a week. Can I take some leave days? And they'd always approve it because fuck, I never took leave.

I never wanted to leave Iraq or Afghanistan. I looked at it, I should have stayed there until the war was won or over. How's your company developed? Man, I fucking crush it. I crush this shit. I'm the undertow of the gun world. All these fancy motherfuckers have rise and fall off the top of the gun world. I'm still here, fucking doing this since 11 now.

Filling all my classes since then. You know what I mean? I'm just crushing it. How many classes do you run in a year? Man, on average, probably 60 to 70 to 100. Wow. I fill them all. That's incredible.

How many people do you take a class? 10 or less generally, but there's some ranges where the range could hold five. I do five, you know, range holds six, like smaller ranges, but never more than like 10. I think I do 12 once in a while if I have to, but never more than that. Is it just you instructing or do you? Just me, yeah. No kidding. So who is your, who's your target customer?

You're looking for people with experience? No, I don't care. You don't care? Bring it. I do the video. The video don't care. I don't care what gun you got, what fucking holster. All that gear shit is bullshit. It ain't going to fucking help you shoot better.

You know what I mean? So anybody can take my class from fucking skill level nothing to, you know, I do pro shooters. The video, only way to get that two-tenths of a second, which could be the difference between first and fucking tenth in some of the matches. You know what I mean? So like I do pro shooters. I do fucking housewives, guys' wives, couple classes, like...

You name it. What videos are you talking about? Can you describe what you're talking about? Yeah, like average day for me on the range is I videotape, I see what you do, right? I just want to see what you do, what your habits are, what the fuck, you know? And then this is point A, right? This is the whole thing in the gun world. If you're not doing videos, you never have a start point. How the fuck do we know where you're going to end up?

So first thing in the morning, I take a video, beep, shoot your three rounds.

I take a video. And then from that three rounds, I'll tell you where your bullets go, why exactly, how you get them there, how you not do that to get them all in a circle. And then no matter what my class is, average day pistol class is 43 rounds. In 43 rounds, I can get anyone in a three-inch circle. No shit. At what distance? About three, five yards. Nice. Nice.

Anybody. Nice. Bring me your lame, crippled, and crazy. I got it. Shaky motherfuckers, what do they call that? Y'all got them too. Blind, old guys don't see so good. I got you. Fucking simple. Is it all pistol? Pistol, rifle, I don't even care. I do it all. Do you do tactics?

You know, I do with like SWAT teams when they hire me, I'll show them shit like that. But the average day on the range for me is like a one day pistol, one day carbine, you know, two day class, stuff like that. Any mindset type stuff? All I teach is mindset. Because if I give you a model to get better at pistol, you could use that model to get better at anything you do. You know what I mean? So it's all kind of mindset without mindset. And the premise of everything I do is mindset.

I don't want to tell you what to think. I want to show you how to think so you can make those decisions for yourself. Very cool. Very cool. How many people do you think you've trained? Abby told me 15,000. 15,000 people. In the past, since 11 or something like that. And I think that doesn't include people we don't count like.

military guys, special forces guys, some SWAT teams. But I think she told me like 15,000. I'd have to text her, but I think that's what she said. Wow. That's a city. That's incredible. Team SOB is the undertow of the gun community. How'd you come up with Team SOB? Fuck if I know, man. Like, I don't know. Someone, um...

I think it kind of came about is I started the app, the SOB TV. Um, and then we had a Facebook group. Right. And then back in the day, like guys talked about guns and stuff on Facebook. No one cared. And then like Facebook started to band me into existence. Like Facebook fucking hates me. You know what I mean? Like Zuck, if you're listening, it's true. Like, uh,

I can't even log in. Like, you know how you go to log in and they're like, we'll send a code to your phone. That code will never come. And my phone number is correct. So I just got banned out of existence. So we kind of switched to another, you know, platform and where the guys could actually talk. And as soon as we got off Facebook,

All the fucked up behavior from the guys went away because they're not trying to piss off Zuckerberg every day because he's fucking with us. So they want to fuck with him back. Once we got in another place, like the guys were great. We just talk about guns again. And then I started building a community. So then it was like, fuck, man, we're more of a fucking really big fucking team than anything else. And then I started making the team SOB shirts and like fucking guys love it. Very cool. Very cool.

What's coming for you? Anything new? Man, I'm just mid-grinding it right now for work. Kind of summer, no real classes, so I'm kind of chilling until fall. So what I'm going to do this summer is I think I'm training for Worlds. Worlds. Jiu-jitsu. No shit. I think I'm going to go, first off, Master Worlds.

So I'm going to fight old guys my age this year. If it goes well next year, I might just fucking go for the open. Nice. Yeah. And then I told myself, I was like, you know, well,

The average like shooting thing is like I go somewhere for four days and it's like a one day class, like a two day class and a one day class or whatever, whatever the classes are. I told myself, I was like, man, I'm on the road sitting in these fucking hotels anyway. I should just hit a dojo and try to get a day of Jetson, you know? And then it started like that. And then it was like, I want to, I want to be there every day. And then, you know, here I am.

Very cool. What about your company? You got anything new coming out? Man, we're on Amazon Prime. You could get all your SOB shit on Amazon Prime. I can't tell you how happy I am about that. You kind of got to look it up right now because we're kind of new, right? But yeah.

We have a company that's supposed to do the marketing somehow. I don't know how that works. They talk to me. I have no fucking clue. So hopefully, we'll be more and more on fucking Amazon. You can get shit from us, from Amazon. Like, fuck. You know what I mean? Perfect. Well, Shrek.

I really appreciate you being here. It was an honor to interview you and all your social media and website and all that stuff will be in the description. And yeah, thanks, man. And I just wish you the best of luck. Thanks, man. Hey, you didn't even ask me any serious Timmy Kennedy questions. What's up? I didn't see this coming. Do you want me to? Yeah, you know, Timmy, you should be asking me. He talks massive shit, wrote a book.

You know, although I thought I was the best 40% of his book. Well, you know, I already interviewed him. What do you want me to ask you about Tim? I don't know. You know him. Like, ask me, I don't know anything about him. We haven't talked about that, so. Well, if you want to, well, what can I ask you about Tim? I mean, how was Tim when he showed up? He's a very confident guy. Yeah, overconfident, right? And that kind of led to the big thing in his book where, you know, I beat him up.

I would say this. He was good at a lot of things, but he lacked what the Army should have taught him. By the time he got to us, he should have had a really good appreciation for where he was, the gravity of the situation. I mean, he comes to me and then we instantly work for the Delta Force.

about that. And then he's going to have to do his rest of his career. He's seen the big show. He sees how good this shit works, how fucking well this works and all that. And then he had to progress to...

seeing some fucked up shit later with lesser people. You know what I mean? So I think he didn't understand the gravity of where he was. I know he talked about like me being a hard boss, but like, I would only say like, I knew the value of his life at a time where he didn't have a value, especially as a young kid. You know what I mean? So I may not be the perfect guy to work for, but like I run a tight ship and we're going to fucking train. Yeah.

You know what I mean? We're not just going to fucking sit in the team room and call ourselves trained. Turn this shit on. Make a radio fucking call. Can you do that? No. Well, let's figure that shit out now. These guns, can you shoot them? Yes or no? If no, let's do this better, right? So I just felt like, you know, in his book, he kind of talks about me as like, you know, I don't know, like maybe a bad boss in a little bit of light. But the reality is, is like, yo, I had already done all this shit.

I valued everybody's life. And I know the war takes bodies. And I had already seen loss. And I had already learned the solo mission stuff. You can't kill enough people to win today. You just can't. The Nazis tried it. It doesn't fucking work. Stop saying that. You know what I mean? Guys say that all the time. Stop fucking saying that. The only way to win a war is preserve life, whether it's yours or the people's lives that need to be preserved. So I think I was just in a

a much more experienced place when Tim came on. You know what I mean? And then like, he's a great friend of mine. I was just at his house in Austin the other day. Like I love his kids, his family. Uh, we're good friends, but like as a new guy, you know, in the Q course, he was probably the fucking baddest dude in the Q course. And then you come to a place where you're now bottom. That's hard for somebody with high confidence to deal with. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah.

And then I would just say, here he is as a young guy giving me shit. I should be on every mission. A helicopter got shot down today. There's one fucking helicopter left. You know what I mean? Okay. I got to cut one fucking helicopter as the boss. Don't take that personal. Your helicopter got shot down today. You're staying home today.

How you want me to, you know what I mean? How else are we going to slice this, right? So he would take that as like a personal attack. You know what I mean? Like, oh, he's making me stay back because I'm the new guy. Well, yeah, because the helicopter shot down. And instead of bringing 36, we can only bring, I don't know, fucking 24. Who the fuck knows? You know, 29. I don't know. I don't know the numbers, but.

You know what I mean? And like, I know like him having to stay back on missions sucks. I've been there. But the reality is, is like, you can't just be fucking poopy and kick rocks while we're gone. Yeah. Right. You should be prepping them trucks, loading them machine guns. What if we need help? You should be coming in guns a blazing. You know what I mean? So it's like.

I think all that is he felt as a new guy is we were trying to keep him down. But what he kind of missed because he really didn't do any army time was this is just the way it works for sometimes. You know what I mean? Yeah.

Wow.

And that's when I started to fucking get on his shit. So I know he might have hated me a little bit, but it was only to protect him. I mean, he's a decent guy. He's got great intent. He's fucking talented. He's just immature. What do you do, right? And that's when we told him, my commander's like,

He needs to go to ranger school. Maybe this will learn him a little bit. You know what I mean? And so I told him he was going to ranger school after Iraq. And like, basically he fucking cried about it a lot. Mr. Valedictorian of fucking ranger school was not fucking happy and was totally verbal about it. And like the commanders are like, if he says another fucking word, he's fucking, I get this. I got him. Like, it's cool. You know what I mean? So I was the bad guy, but

It was to protect him at the same time. You know what I mean? And then we were right. He went to ranger school. He passed. He did fucking great. He learned. Guess what he learned in ranger school about him and what he could take. You know what I mean? And then, I don't know, maybe a year ago, maybe longer, he called me and he was like,

He's actually in where he's now a team sergeant, right? Like he's where I was, right? But he's 40 and he was like, hey, now that I'm with you are, I kind of appreciate you, stuff like that. And I was like, I just want to know when I was the old man, I was 34. You're doing it at 40. Come on, who won? You know what I mean? So you did have to tune him up.

Yeah, I put them down in the dirt one day, yeah. What instigated that? Man, it's just the fucking incessant talking shit about kicking everybody's ass, you know what I mean? And then like one day I was just like, you're going to kick all of our asses. Yeah. All of our asses. Yeah. I was like, yo, meet me at the fucking dojo at midnight.

You know what I mean? And then what he didn't know is while he was all poopy, kicking rocks or mad at whatever he was mad at, all the guys are like, "Yo, I'll be at the dojo. I want a piece of this action." And I'm like, "It's easy to fill the dojo that night." And then I was just like, "Look, we're going to fight in the order of rank." Now the new guys didn't like it. And I'd say Timmy did well for, I don't know, two, three, four guys. I don't fucking know. But he couldn't beat us all. And a couple of the senior guys like me, like,

one of the senior guys was a Golden Gloves boxer. You know what I mean? He was just throwing it at him. You know what I mean? And then like I was second to last because the captain went last, right? And then generally captain, you know what I mean? Like one of my best friends ever, not a great fighter. You know what I'm saying? Kind of like puss arm a little bit. You know what I mean? And I was like, well, this is it. It's got to be on me.

And I just made sure in the time I had, I bloodied him up and I made sure he was down. And then all I did is I whispered in his ear, like, I hope we don't have to have this talk again. And I walked out. Me and the guys walked out, left him in there laying on the ground. You know what I mean? But what I tried to teach him was you can't beat us all. This is a team sport. We're a pack. You know what I mean? This is how we work.

Now, we should be a dozen lone wolves, but when those lone wolves come together as a pack, you got a dozen alpha wolves as a pack. Any one of them wolves can handle themselves. This is going to be better than one lead dog and X other dogs. Does that make sense? It does. And that's really where I was going. I'll bet you didn't have to have that talk again, huh? We did. No, never again. It's funny how that works. And then-

In Iraq, if I would have said he's fucking gone, he'd have been gone today. And there's no recovering from that because you got booted out of combat, your career is over. You know what I mean? I didn't want to ruin someone's career or I don't know if he's going to be a lifer or not. You know what I mean? We used to joke, like the guys that were...

When I was a senior guy, my senior guys, we used to call ourselves lifers. And the lifer has a different attitude about this than the guy who does one rotation. You know what I mean? So we always tried to keep him in a good place. You know what I'm saying? And then the other new guys, they've been around. They were on other teams.

They're in the same boat as him. He ain't never done shit or been anywhere. You know what I mean? And that's kind of what some of the guys thought. So I would say this is like, I just wanted to groom him. Like, why kick out a fucking good guy? Like, the war requires bodies. I needed more bodies than the army would actually give me. Every fucking day I was in war, in my opinion. So yeah, that's my...

I have my Timmy stuff, but you know, I mean, I think he's great. He's a good friend of mine. Um, but like, I don't think he really understood or knew my experience level. Cause I didn't talk about any of that. Them, the guys didn't know about my singleton missions or anything like that. They just knew when like I knew everybody, you know what I mean? In general Miller comes around, he's asked, he doesn't want to talk to my boss. He's asking for me by name. You know what I mean? Like,

That's kind of really all they knew about me. No shit. Yeah. So when I went to SF, no one knew that worked for me what I had already done. No kidding. No.

I had a fucking, I look like a Mexican general. I got so many fucking medals, bronze stars, a fucking wards, V devices. I had so much shit when I was in my, when we had to take our death photos, you know what I mean? You know, your death photo. I think there's a picture of like, even with Timmy in it is we got our class A, our dress jackets with all their ribbons on. And like, I was just like, I don't care what pants you wear. It's a fucking picture mirror up, like put your jackets on. Right. So when we took the death photo, right. Guys are like,

Wow, you got a lot of ribbons and stuff. You know what I mean? It's the first time guys are like, wow, you already got a bronze star with me? Because those guys had never even been to combat yet. No shit. Yeah, 7th Group was kind of out of the war until then. Wow. Yeah. How long did you work with them? Him? Yeah. Yeah.

I don't know. Not that long total time. Like he kind of came before we deployed. After we deployed is when I went back to the dark side and then I ended up getting promoted after that. And you guys kept in touch this entire time or reconnected at a later date? No, like we've been in touch on and off of, he like,

Like, I don't know. I think I've had the same phone number the whole time. But like he changes numbers occasionally and like, hey, I changed numbers. Like, don't give no one my new number. Like, I didn't give no one the last number. But yeah, I've been in touch this whole time. Yeah. I'm hoping to get down to Austin and train with him because he trains with the fucking biggest guys in the world right now. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Well, I'm sure he'll make that happen.

I hope so. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, as new guys go, probably the worst new guy I had, not the worst human in the world, not a bad person. I just think guys that previously were in the Army understand the things that he hadn't learned yet. You know what I mean? Doesn't make sense. Doesn't make sense.

What's your advice for new guys showing up to a team? Yeah, man. First and foremost, you get to a team, shut your fucking mouth. Just for a little bit. No one cares about you. You're fresh meat. You know what I mean? They don't care if you live or die. You haven't earned your fucking keep yet. Shut your fucking mouth. The next thing is there's only one thing you got to do. And the only thing, I would say the only thing you're given that you can't change is your name. You fuck that up, you're fucked.

Don't fuck up your name. You know what I mean? Yeah. I'd say that's damn good advice. The next thing I'd say is try to be technically proficient at anything people throw at you. As dumb as it is, read the instructions for the fucking little radio. You know what I mean? Like, so you know how to use it when the time comes.

You know what I mean? Whether that technique of proficient is shooting rifles, pistols, using a radio, fuck medic. I mean, think about this. When I went out alone, I had to be my own medic, my own commo guy, my own weapons guy, my own explosives guy. Like name all the different guys on a team. When you're out alone, you got to do all that shit. So I would say be technically proficient and it's not fucking hard. You know what I mean? Like even hungover, just pay attention.

That's all you got to do. Attention to detail, you know? Did you like the Singleton missions more than working as a team? First off, I loved having my own fucking task force in Iraq and the autonomy to do whatever the fuck I think is right. I love that. I love the Singleton missions in the sense that, like, I didn't get stuck with anybody fucking stupid. I didn't have to do anything stupid. I could do this my way. I could do this, you know.

how I wanted to do it without anybody hindering or fucking stepping over the top of me. I like that I'm not political. So when I go out and do this fucking mission, when I come back, I'm going to tell it to you like it is instead of like trying to hype myself on how great I am. Like, look, this is what I found. This is what I saw. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Well, Shrek, is there anything else you want me to ask you?

I think I'm good. I mean, if you can't think of anything, I'm good. I'm good. Well, it was an honor to interview you and wish you the best of luck. And I hope to see you again. Thanks, man. Yeah, you'll see me again for sure. Check out the podcast that inspired Taylor Sheridan's latest series.

There's a stretch of road in a real rich region of West Texas. This region of West Texas, known as the Permian Basin, is in the midst of the biggest oil boom in history. This is a story of roughnecks, billionaire wildcatters, and wannabe dreamers. My name is Christian Wallace. From Texas Monthly and Imperative Entertainment, this is Boomtown. Boomtown. Wherever you listen.