What Comes After the Podcast Election, Scott’s Advice to Federal Employees, and an Update on Scott's Company, Section
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Welcome to Office Hours with PropG. This is the part of the show where we answer questions about business, big tech, entrepreneurship, and whatever else is on your mind. If you'd like to submit a question, please email a voice recording to officehourswithpropgmedia.com. Question number one.

Hi, Prof G. This is Jake from Washington, D.C. I'm a big fan of all your podcasts. I think when it comes to marketing and building businesses, you're spot on. I also think you've come up with some fantastic policy ideas that make sense, and I hope more moderate members of Congress reach out to you. I've been thinking about your post-election analysis, where you discuss podcasts becoming the dominant campaign medium in the next election, potentially replacing traditional door-to-door outreach. This brings me to my question.

How do you envision monetizing the monetization of political campaigns on Podcast Evolving? Are we going to be listening to you read, this ad was paid for by friends of Candidate X, as is required for all political ads? I'm curious to hear your thoughts on how you think this emerging campaign medium will develop, and how would you maintain your authenticity and credibility with your audience? Look forward to hearing from you, and keep up the great work.

Thanks for the thoughtful question, Jake from DC. The 2024 cycle was the most expensive election in American history with political ad spending totaling over $11 billion.

However, it wasn't all disco for broadcasters. This was the first election where their share of total spending fell below 50%. Since the 2020 election, ad spending increased over $2 billion, but traditional broadcasters only saw $100 million of this growth. First off, I think it was Hearst or one of the big family-owned media companies was really smart. About 20 years ago, they went and bought all these local TV stations in swing states thinking, okay,

These are shitty businesses for about 20 months every two years. And then for four months, they're amazing businesses because they quintuple their ad rates and campaigns which think, okay, old people vote. What do old people do? They want to watch the weather and see that handsome, handsome young thing talking about the news.

and they turn on their local news. And they can trap old people and they can run ads basically saying that, you know, the other guy is a pedophile and she's addicted to diet pills and you should vote for our guy. It's really weird. Human condition, it's much easier for us to believe something negative about someone than something positive. So as Newt Gingrich convinced his party 20 odd years ago, go negative, go early.

Anyways, they bought these stations and they've been the gift that keeps on giving. They were able to scoop them up fairly inexpensively and they're just cash machines. I think that is about to come to an end for two reasons. First reason, Joe. Second, Rogan. And that is when Trump went on Rogan,

He got about 15 million downloads on audio and about 40, 45 million views on YouTube. So call it 60 million. For Vice President Harris, who, by the way, totally fucked up and should have gotten on a plane. Joe Rogan is now more important than her or was at that point to Austin and done an interview. I think Joe actually would have been kind to her. He's not about calling people out. He's pretty good that way. He

As a matter of fact, he doesn't call people out enough. Oh, mRNA vaccines alter your DNA. Really? Really? Oh, okay. You're not a fucking quack spreading misinformation that results in unnecessary death, disease, and disability. Really? Oh, that makes sense. No, it doesn't. Anyway, she should have done it, but for her to reach the same number of people, she would have had to go on CNN, MSNBC, and Fox every night for three hours for an entire week. As a matter of fact,

A woman I really respect a lot who has a, I believe it's a Sunday morning show on CNN, asked me to come on every week and do this thing like, what's on your mind, where I talk for six to 10 minutes. And I said, I've done the math. No one 25 to 54 is watching CNN. And for me to do the work I would need to do because I like you and I think you're smart, it's just not worth, the juice isn't worth the squeeze. And I would have killed to go on Anderson Cooper or Michael Smirconish or

or Stephanie Ruhle, by the way, all three friends, all wonderful people, or any of these guys. I occasionally go on Chris Cuomo because I like, I only go on with my friends. I know I'm name dropping right now, but it's just not worth it. The people I'm trying to raise, I'm trying to reach a young man. I'm trying to reach young people that want to develop economic security. And guess what? They're not watching fucking CNN. Get this, the average age, the average person watching MSNBC is a 70-year-old white woman.

Oh, but it makes sense for politicians to go there. What do you think a 70 year old white woman has made up her mind around who she's voting for? Having said that podcast, 34 year old male, 34 year old males, what do they vote on? They don't vote on issues or values. They vote on economics.

They're at a point in their life where they're trying to build economic security, and the economic issue is more dynamic. What do I mean by that? Every two or four years, it's not entirely clear which party will become the party of economic growth or become more favorable in the eyes of voters around economics. Traditionally, Republicans are the business people, low taxes, but people are starting to pay attention that under Democratic administrations the last 50 years, there's been 50 million jobs created. Under Republican administrations, there's been

1 million jobs. The markets tend to go up more during Democratic tenure. So people are kind of saying, OK, whoever can sell me is going to get my vote at the age of 34 if they're a male, whereas a 70-year-old woman. So where is everyone going to go? I think to podcasts. Now, having said that, your notion is how do they monetize it or how do we monetize it? I don't see why it would be any more difficult to run a 30-second ad saying, he fucking sucks, and then having the candidate go, I approve this ad.

I think you're going to start to see political ads. The reason I know that this fear of influence is massively shifting, and I'm not exaggerating here, I bet 50% of the candidates, mostly Democrat but also Republicans, I'm seeing as somewhat moderate, have reached out to me for quote unquote advice. When people reach out to me for advice, it's not because they care about what I think. It means they want help finding a job, they want money for their campaign, or they want to come on the podcast.

And I think that there's probably a hundred senators and congresspeople and governors who look in the mirror every morning and say the following. Hello, Mr. President, or hello, Madam President. And I've heard from most of them. And they claim they really are interested in my advice. And they say, hey, wouldn't it be a great idea for me to come on the pod and talk about it? What's interesting is the political candidates don't do well on podcasts. People would much rather hear from

I don't know, Kim Kardashian or a guy like Fareed Zakaria gets unbelievable downloads.

He does so well. Anthony Scaramucci does incredibly well. He's not a political candidate, but he's a political commentator. Ian Bremmer, these geopoliticians, Josh Brown on the markets, Aswad Damodaran, Kyla Scanlon, a young person. These people get huge downloads. Mel Robbins, I had her on. People love talking about emotions and raising their kids. When I bring senators or congresspeople on...

People just don't care. It's really interesting, but I am committed to bringing more and more politicians on, specifically moderates on the left and on the right, although I'm having trouble finding moderates on the right. I'm a moderate, but that wasn't a Nazi salute. Yeah, okay. Okay. What are your pronouns, he and Himmler? Anyway, I do think that if you get attention, you can monetize it. And if you have attention and influence, which podcasts will have,

they're going to be able to grab a disproportionate amount of that, what it'll probably be 15 or 20 billion going into the next election. So if you have influence and attention, you'll figure out a way to monetize it, whether it's ads, sponsored events, I don't know, what have you. But we're going to see, I think we're going to see for the first time these local news stations start to feel some of the same pressure that every other media company has felt over

And then we're going to see a massive transfer of influence, attention, and monetization to podcasts. In terms of conflict of interest, I read ads. I don't do crypto ads anymore because I worry it's gambling and I worry there's too many young men staring at their phone, losing money or making money on crypto.

but I have no problem advocating for products. And if it's a conflict, if I'm talking about a company, I'm an investor and I try to be transparent. I'm here because I enjoy this, but I am a close second here because I want to make money. And I don't think people mind that. So what I think they mind is when they feel like you're abusing their trust and not being upfront about your intentions or your investments. So as long as you're transparent, I think that's fine. But coming your way, I'm Joe Bob and I approve this ad.

Thanks for the question. Question number two. Hey, Prof G. Love your show. Question for you. What advice do you have for federal workers considering leaving public service? As you know, the Doge efforts are cruel and chaotic. They've created a stressful work environment that leaves me full of anxiety.

wondering if I'll be the next to lose my job. I joined the federal workforce as a military spouse five years ago. Prior to that, I spent my career in the private sector. Despite high evaluations, leadership programs, and a graduate degree, I'm still concerned I could lose my job. I live in Virginia with a high concentration of federal workers. Should I jump ship before the job market is oversaturated? Should I stay put? Am I overthinking this?

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

- Anonymous for Virginia. The first is, I'm really sorry you're stressed out. It's sort of the unknown sometimes is more stressful than the actual known. And that is a means of, I think, trying to assuage your stress. And there's the basics, spending time with loved ones, working out, meditation, breath work. I tried breath work. I tried this straw method from this guy named Dan Reeves, who I love, who's fantastic. This very soulful guy who does this 10% Happier podcast. Here's the straw method. Breathe in.

Two seconds, then breathe out four seconds. Okay. That shit does not work for me. It does not work for me. The breath work does not work. I understand that you're stressed out, but anytime there's change or chaos, there is a silver lining, and that is sometimes there's opportunity where you don't see it. What do I mean by that? What is happening at the federal government level right now, I'm of two minds about it. The first is, to be blunt and coarse, welcome to the work week.

The idea that you get a random email from someone who might be laid off and have insecurity and anxiety, people feel that across every business sector in America. In America,

At the same time, the injustice I get, but there's tons of injustice in the private sector. The thing that I find most troubling about it is not what people, most media is reporting on. It's the incompetence. It's laying off workers who oversee our nuclear stockpile and then rehiring them thinking, oh, maybe we should, in fact, look after this shit such that it doesn't, you know, such that we can ensure that nobody, the babies don't start playing with it before it becomes less radioactive in 60,000 odd years.

The way they're going about it, it just feels stupid and ineffective to me. And also the corruption.

firing people that happen to be investigating Musk's business dealings, and also just the general incompetence. Oh, we saved $8 billion. Well, actually, it's $8 million that you saved. Oh, we're saving a million and a half dollars here. No, you're not. They already spent a million and a half. There's no way to get it back. So I find the whole Keystone Cops fucking incompetence that doesn't reflect the general competence you find across most government agencies.

I think I'm sort of of that attitude of let them. I think it's just so weird that the genius of the Republican Party is its ability to convince people who are going to get hurt the most that this is a good idea for them. In general, the reddest districts are the ones that are the biggest takers. The Department of Education sends the most money per capita to these deep red states in the South. Okay, you want to eliminate the Department of Education? Fine. You want to eliminate...

Medicare or take money out of Medicare where six in 10 kids in poor households in red states get the medical treatment they need. Okay, have at it, let them. You're about to see just how incompetent you think government really is and when these cuts come home to you. So I'm sort of of the attitude of, okay, you wanted it, you broke it, you own it.

Now, coming back to your specific situation, one, until you actually get laid off, unless, it's never a bad idea to do a market check, see what's out there, start investigating, start having coffees.

do interviews if you have ideas on who you want to speak to. I don't think that's a bad idea in any situation to be kind of on a regular basis doing a market check. Having said that, I would not jump, I would certainly not quit until you have another job. And also, a couple things can happen. One, if you do get laid off, you'll probably get some sort of severance. And two, when there's change, say they lay off 10 or 20% of the people at your organization, they're pretty soon going to realize they need people to actually run the fucking organization. And the top of the pyramid is

will, quite frankly, get broader. And that is you might find that you're in a position to be promoted sooner than you thought because there's fewer people around. I've always told people when there's a transaction in the private sector, when their company gets acquired or there's layoffs, stick around because churn and chaos results in a lot of anxiety, oftentimes a lot of negative things, but oftentimes a lot of opportunity because the company is being reconfigured and you might wake up with a bigger and a better job. So in sum,

Find things and people that help manage your anxiety. Two, it's never a bad idea to do a bit of a market check and talk to people. And three, think to yourself, what could go right, right? We're always about what could go wrong. Well, what could go right? Maybe the organization, maybe people get laid off. Maybe you're good at what you do and maybe it ends up creating more avenues or arteries of opportunity for you. Appreciate the question, Anonymous from Virginia. We have one quick break before our final question. Stay with us.

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Support for PropG comes from Grammarly. Think about the most tedious part of your job. Is it writing the exact same email you've already written a hundred times? Some studies have shown that 88% of professionals spend more than half their work week on repetitive writing tasks. Well, imagine you had an assistant that could take the small stuff off your plate and help make your writing more effective and persuasive. You're in luck because you're writing the same email you've already written a hundred times.

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So you can have the peace of mind that comes from knowing that your data is completely secured. We've used Grammarly at Prop G, and as I've said before, it has made us more efficient and takes our written work and makes it just, quite frankly, more competent. Get more done with Grammarly. Download Grammarly for free at grammarly.com slash podcast. That's grammarly.com slash podcasts. Welcome back. Question number three. Hey, Prop G, this is John Ward from Los Angeles.

I took a marketing class from your company section a couple of years ago, and it was called Section 4 and really enjoyed it. Can you give us an update on the company? Has it gone as expected? What's working? What's not? Have you taken more money? Just really interested in that as an entrepreneurial journey and what's going on with that company. Thanks so much.

- John from LA, thanks for the kind words. I pride myself on being transparent. Everybody talks about their wins and people don't want to talk about their failures. Section has still got a question mark around it. And that is the initial vision was find, build this all-star team of the best professors at business schools and offer 80% of an amazing class

at every business school, there's five or six ringers that everybody has to take regardless of what they're teaching because they're so good. My thought was I'm going to aggregate all these ringers from the top 20 schools, put them online, really highly invest in marketing and graphics and production quality, and give you 80% of the valuation class from Demodaran or from Adam Alter's marketing class or, God, I forget his name, this wonderful guy from...

Kellogg, Sarah Beckman from the Haas School and give you 80% of her course for $1,000 instead of 7,000, which is what it costs to take these courses at a private university. I'm not sure that's true at the Haas School. Anyways, in sum, it wasn't working.

We were spending a lot more money and without the certification you get from an MBA, we had trouble charging even $1,000. We got this incredible sugar high of COVID and that is I put in, I raised a seed round of 7 million bucks. I put in, I think 2 million of my own money, maybe three. And it just took off during COVID 'cause everyone had a lot of time. And I knew that we were in a sugar high, but I didn't realize we were in like a speedballed meth cocaine high.

And the company went from like one to 10 million overnight. I went out and I raised another $30 million. That was a mistake. I should have kept it small. I should have been more judicious with the capital because once we had $30 million, we brought in a management team and they started spending money like fucking drunk sailors on shit that didn't work. We hired Malcolm Gladwell to speak to our audience for a hundred grand or Adam Grant, who I love and think is great. We paid him a hundred grand. They're not worth that much money to speak to a bunch of prospective students as good as they are.

So we were just wasting money. We went from 20 employees to 120. And here's the mistake I made that I continue to make in the private markets. And that is once I have access to capital, I try and grow too fast. I spend way too much fucking money, hire mediocre people, and then end up having to lay off 60 or 80 percent of them. And that is what happened here. As soon as we came out of COVID, revenues crashed. Our burn was

unsustainable and we had to lay off 60, 70% of the staff. Now the company is about 25 or 30 people. We have pivoted to AI. What do I mean by that?

We found a lot of people and companies coming to us and say, could you upskill our media department at L'Oreal on how to use different AI tools to make our department much more robust? Give us this great... L'Oreal has always had amazing media buying. That's kind of, I would argue, their core confidence is they're just fantastic media buyers. They said, how do we take the most

cutting edge tools and turn every media planner or every media buyer into a warrior and make them just much better at what they do. So we have pivoted section to basically AI upskilling for the enterprise. And this is more my ballywick. I've always done B2B businesses. I've never done B2C.

I like B2B more. It's based on individual relationships. Corporations, if you can move the value or move the shareholder needle for them, are much less price sensitive than consumers. I've just always been in B2B businesses. Anyways, we pivoted. I have really wonderful investors. General Catalyst is my lead, and they've been incredibly supportive and nice and smart. And I have a good CEO, Greg Shove, running the business now. We have some very talented people in the organization, and it is starting to grow again.

And we are now, I think, almost two-thirds subscription revenue, back towards a $10 million run rate and working with very large corporations, helping them, again, upskill certain departments within their organization around how to leverage these new AI tools. So I'm hopeful, but the last five years have been really mediocre. I have wasted a ton of time and money. Is that fair? Not wasted. Have not gotten the return I was originally hoping for.

I would bet, if I had to bet what's going to happen, there's an outside shot it does really well. I think there's a good shot we're going to get our money back. Keep in mind, we've raised $38 million, so I need to get my investors $38 million back before we start really showing any return. I'm fairly confident. Is that right? I think I'm fairly confident that'll happen. And we seem to finally have found our footing. Having said that, this is kind of the story of my life in most of these companies. I've had a couple of companies where it's just been up and to the right.

Usually I start something, it does okay, then it doesn't do okay. And the key is agility and kind of zero in on something that works. And I think we have finally done that after five years and spending $25 or $30 million. I think we finally zeroed in on something. They're signing up corporations and it's actually doing quite well and growing again.

But this is, you know, this shit is hard. This is chestnut checkers, but it's finally, it seems to me, kind of on its, found its footing again and doing really well. But again, one out of seven companies succeeds. I've started nine. I've had two do really well. I've had two or three just do okay. And I've had four just like flaming balls of shit, hit a giant wall and spray and everyone gets their face burned off.

That was a little graphic. That was a little graphic. Anyways, thanks for the question. I hope that satisfies your need to understand what is happening at Section. And it's now called Section AI. That's all for this episode. If you'd like to submit a question, please email a voice recording to officehoursatpropertymedia.com. Again, that's officehoursatpropertymedia.com.

This episode was produced by Jennifer Sanchez. Our intern is Dan Shalon. Drew Burrows is our technical director. Thank you for listening to the PropG Pod from the Vox Media Podcast Network. We will catch you on Saturday for No Mercy, No Malice, as read by George Hahn. And please follow our PropG Markets Pod wherever you get your pods for new episodes every Monday and Thursday.

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