Jon Stewart
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You know what's nice in the old days if you wanted a cinematic experience? You had to go to the movie theater. Yeah. You had to get your ass to a movie theater. Not anymore. With Samsung OLED, you get a full cinematic experience without leaving your couch. There's actually a brand new Samsung OLED here in Team Cocoa Studio.

And it's tough to stay focused on podcasting when the picture quality is this good. I'm always losing track. Oh. I'm supposed to be interviewing one of the great people in history, and I start drifting away from them. I've noticed. Because I'm looking at the amazing picture on the Samsung OLED. Yeah, you drop the ball a lot. Maybe. Yeah.

Yeah. The AI-powered processor upscales your favorite content in brilliant 4K resolution. You get to experience colors on a TV as they're meant to be seen because this is the only OLED TV validated by the industry-leading color experts at Pantone. Plus, on OLED S95D, you get OLED glare-free technology so you can watch everything you love with nearly no glare. I can't stand glare. When there's glare, I can't even see the picture. Yeah. The picture. The picture. The picture.

Gamers, you're covered too. Hey, gamers, don't worry. What's that? Gamers, you're covered too. Oh, really? Yes. Motion Accelerator 144 hertz delivers ultra smooth motion and AI auto game mode tailors your game settings to its genre.

Speaking of gaming, you know, we're going to be filming another Clueless Gamer. Bly, what game are we playing this time? I like to surprise you, so I don't want to tell you. We're also narrowing the games down. So if you out there have an idea of a game you want us to play, go to Team Coco podcast on Instagram and leave us a comment and we might pick that game. Can't wait to see how great this game looks on the Samsung OLED TV. And I'm just going to add it's AI powered upscaling. That's right. Stay tuned for the next Clueless Gamer releasing late November.

Man, we were just in summer and then we're like rocketing into Halloween. I know. I'm on the beach wearing my Speedo 10 minutes ago. Oh, no. Now I'm dressed up as a guy in a Speedo on Halloween. What?

That's their costume? Yeah. It saves money and time. A lot can happen in a second. That's why ADT spends all their seconds helping protect all of yours. While you're out, the ADT Plus app gives you complete control over who has access to your home. It's great.

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When every second counts, count on ADT. Visit ADT.com today or call 1-800-ADTASAP. Google and Google Nest Doorbell are trademarks of Google LLC. My name is Jon Stewart, and I feel...

Honored, honored to be Conan O'Brien's friend. You weren't sure about the name. Well, no. Here's where I fucked up. That hurts it. It was my verb subject agreement is where I fucked up. Fall is here. Hear the back to school. Ring the bell. Brand new shoes. Walking blues. Climb the fence. Books and pens. I can tell that we are going to be friends.

I can tell that we are going to be friends. Hello, it's Conan O'Brien. We're here with Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend. It's a juggernaut.

The podcast. Yeah. It's a juggernaut. Do you know what a juggernaut is? Yes, I know what a juggernaut is. Unstoppable. Yeah, but... Unstoppable. Is it big? I don't know. Are we talking to microphones? I don't know who's listening. It's massive. I got stopped at the library the other day. Wait a minute. You were in a library? Okay. Were you looking for directions? Where's...

Where's the dispensary? Yeah. Hello? I'm looking for the dispensary. I'm sorry. I shouldn't pretend that you don't read. You read a lot, don't you? Shut up. No, you do, right? I'm Matt Gourley, by the way. You fooled everyone. I know, but I shouldn't act like you're someone that doesn't care about books. Because so many people know about our lives. They saw my kids. They were like, oh, it's Mikey and Charlie. And then at one point they're like, I can't believe I'm talking to you. Yeah. And I'm like, I...

I didn't know that like people, I know people listen. It's just, I, we're in a room with like five, not five. How many of us are six people? I don't know. It was good that you corrected from five to six. That was important. Um, no, I, I'm constantly running into people as I've said, that are listening to the podcast as they encounter me. It's a juggernaut. Yeah. Just this morning on the way into work. Um,

I was waiting at the light and a guy was like, oh, hey, I'm listening to the podcast right now and kind of pointed at his phone. I was like, oh, cool, man. How's it going? And he literally just turned and then walked away and then just stood at the

faced away from me and stood waiting to cross the street. Oh, you wanted to talk to him more? Like I was like, oh, hey, that's good. And he was like, and literally walked away from me and looked the other way. He wanted to, yeah, he didn't want to talk to you. He just wanted to go and listen to the podcast. Yeah, he would rather listen to you guys on a phone than talk to me in person. Okay, this reminds me of something that happened to me years and years ago. I got on a flight and it was some...

I don't know which airline it was, but one of those airlines that was showing... That's important to know. The late night show. You got on my case about five to six. Yeah. Please, figure out which airplane you were on. Oh, my God.

Okay. I guess I deserve. You know what? I deserve that. I deserve that. Okay. I deserve that. And I won't, you know, I won't retaliate, you know, I won't go after anything about, about you. And I, I, I apologize. I'm looking at my denim jacket. I just, it's horrible. It's corduroy. Yeah. No, no, it's awful. Anyway, you know, you could fix that refrigerator for me when you get a chance. I mean, just dress up a little bit for work. Oh, come on. But anyway, I,

I was, I got on a plane. We started flying. What was the airline? Spirit Airlines, I believe. No, and you know, the little monitors where people are watching television and the person who was sitting across the aisle and ahead of me had their monitor on and the plane takes off and they get service and they start watching my late night show. Oh.

And of course it's silent because I have headphones on and I can see it through my mannerisms that I'm coming out, I'm greeting the crowd. And then I can see through my mannerisms that I'm doing the setup to the first joke. And then I do the first joke and the guy laughs and he turns to me and he gives me a thumbs up and I'm like, oh, this is cool. And then I start to think I

I just taped this. Like, I just taped this a couple of hours ago. What's the second joke? You know, I can't try to think. I know the first one was good. I can't remember what the second joke was. And I see myself gesturing and then I deliver it. And the guy doesn't laugh and turns to me and does that. And.

And just as he did it, I remember it. Oh, right. The one about the pineapple. Oh, yeah, that wasn't good. And I'm like, shit, am I going to be getting a blow by blow critique of the show as I watch myself in silence to this guy who's wearing his headset? It was hilarious. Oh, my God. Never forgot that second show. And I was like, ah, right. The pineapple joke.

I don't remember what the joke was. But anyway, these things happen. It's very strange. But yes, Sona, you encountered some people in a library. Were you taking the kids there? Yeah. Okay. So did you get a book while you were there? I sometimes read.

Okay. I don't, I'm not an avid reader. You used to make fun of me for reading all the time. The books you read are enormous. And they're so like, how many books about Lyndon Johnson do you have to read? You have to read all the ones by Caro. And then there are other books by Lyndon Johnson. But you know, it's not just Lyndon Johnson. It's American history. I know. But then of course, you got to know your French history. You've got to know, you know, about World War I and World War II. Then you got to learn more about World War I and World War II. And then you got to learn more about World War II and World War I.

It doesn't stop. And Stalin's always up to no good, so you got to read about him. What's going to happen this week? Yeah. There's just so many. I mean, I read some books, but you just...

constantly read. Like, just give it a rest. Yeah. Give reading a rest. You know how to read. We get it. You know what would be great if you did a PSA? Hey! Hey, kids, give reading a rest. And if Sona says, give reading a rest. Turn on the TV. The more you know. Yeah, exactly. All right. My guest today is an up-and-comer. He's getting there. He's an Emmy Award-winning writer and comedian who hosts and executive produces The Daily Show on Comedy Central, 3CM.

Thrilled. He is here today. Jon Stewart, welcome. There's so much I want to talk to you about. And I, you. And I, you. Sir. It's just turning to a Senate subcommittee here. The mics are right. First of all, I will congratulate you. You're rarely out here in L.A. Almost never. Although sometimes you're here and, you know, do you reach out? No, you don't. No.

If I knew how. There were Stuart sightings. He'll be like across the street and I'll be like, John! And then he just steps back into an alley. Right. From his people, he's not in LA. When I see him, I just fade into the woodwork and go, I'm excited about being your friend.

In the future. In the future. And then I go into the hedges. He's like the way a vampire rolls backwards. That's right. That's John going back into the shadows. That's right. I want to start off by congratulating you. I don't know when this airs, but I will say you just won an Emmy the other night. This may not air for seven years. When I do something with John, I like to hold onto it for seven years because then it really- It has to age. It has to age. It's a fine wine. But I congratulate you. Thank you. I accept it.

I don't, there was some question of whether or not I would accept it. Ladies and gentlemen, I am here to say. You accept my congratulations. I accept it. And, uh,

And we can move on from that. I want to talk to you because there are many things to talk about. But one thing is I feel like we have this kinship both coming up at around the same time in very different ways. Very much so. But early 90s. And it's so hilarious to me now that at the time that was very much.

It was the present. It was the early 90s. Now, Sona, to you, it probably sounds ancient. 90s? The 90s. Oh, they had TV back then? They had just developed a television. You don't have to say it like that. That actually hurt my feelings. The 90s? That was like one of those where she's like, tuberculosis. Yeah.

Dear God, pleurisy? I didn't know that. Is that still a disease? Now, clear something up for me. Were you on a test show of mine or not? I was not. You were not on a test show because the test shows were as dysfunctional and insane as the early shows that were on air.

I can't remember who was on the test shows and who were not on the test shows. I remember Mickey Rooney being on a test show. Oh, dear God. Did he know it was a test show or did he think? I remembered him. I have a very clear memory of talking to Mickey Rooney outside.

outside that 30 Rock hallway, and I'm nobody, and he is hanging from a garment rack, his feet dangling. He's hanging on a garment rack like a chimpanzee, and he's in his white T-shirt, and he said, Conan, I used to have a full head of hair, but Harry Warner made me use this shampoo, and I lost it all. And I thought, this is an amazing job I have. This is an incredible job. He blamed his hair loss.

on Harry Warner in 1941, making him use a kind of shampoo. More impressive is a 90-year-old man with that agility to be hanging off of a... He was flipping around doing full 360s. For consistency's sake, we should have Sona go, Mickey Rooney? Mickey Rooney? Mickey Rooney?

What? When we get to a name you know, just say bingo. Okay. But until then, just deal with this. As we walk through our careers, it's going to be, you're going to see, there's going to come a moment where you're like, I remember that show. Okay. But it's going to be a while. Okay. All right, I'll wait. I just want to know if you have the same feeling that I have about this, which is that

In there was this period of time where and this might just be me, but I felt like a lobster without its shell. So young. So like Jesus Christ, this is, you know, 1993 doing this show.

so raw. It felt like it took forever to get to the point where people said, yes, now you've arrived. That felt to me like it took a thousand years. To you. To me. But hold on. But John, let me tell you something. Let me finish this. So then there's this period where finally it felt like it gelled. So it's a thousand years of feeling like I've got to get there. I've got to get there. I've got to get there. I've got to get to the point where I'm accepted. Then it starts to gel. And then before I know it, it's, you're the old guy. And...

And no, no, not in a bad way. It's nice. Like you're the elder statesman. The time moved in a manner that was shockingly. You know, Conan, it was only yesterday. I realize you're the narrator from... Once the fungus on the nail on your big toe begins to creep. But you, do you know what I'm talking about? It's so interesting to me that you thought that because

And this is not an exercise in smoke, but you were kind of legend to us already at that time because of...

because of SNL. Like, you were already, in our eyes, a made man. So it's so interesting to me that you would feel... But nobody feels that. Or I don't know. I think there are people that think... I've always heard that Eddie Murphy, when he was doing stand-up and was like 17... But that's Mozart. Yeah, I know, I know. That's a prodigy. Well...

I didn't even see. Really? I didn't even see. No, no. He's he's beyond he's he might be the most talented human being that's ever wandered out of the planet. It's different. So so but what I'm saying is I know a guy, a comedian named Ron Richards that I worked with in another lifetime in like 1985 told me that he did stand up and he did stand up when Eddie Murphy was just starting. And Eddie Murphy was like, I don't know, 16 years old or something, 17. And that it'd be nuts.

there were nights where there was nobody in the club or maybe one person. So a lot of people wouldn't even bother going on or they'd go out and just sort of phone it in. He said, Eddie would go out and do to one person would do it as if the whole room was packed. This is when no one knew him. This is pre SNL. He would do it the whole thing. And then he'd walk off stage and he'd tell people, I'm going to be one of the biggest stars in the world. Wow. And he just knew, he just knew because, and that makes sense.

then I'm contrasting that with my own experience of- How much of that is internal though? Because, you know, as an outside observer, right? You know, and I've heard you speak about this and sort of this idea of you felt a little bit

like not the cool kid or not the dirt, but for those of us who are sort of not in that stream, right? Like Harvard Lampoon or SNL or Simpsons. Well, Harvard Lampoon does not see, this is the other thing. I don't think that confers coolness. That was the one thing I wish. Oh, at that time? No, no, no, no. That was the one thing I wished I could have changed about my bio. Really? Is that what's so cool that Dave-

He comes out of the mist. He's from Ball State. That's just much better. I remember before I even went on the air, people were like, Harvard. Oh, so some intellectual is going to take over for David Letton. And I thought, well, no, I'm actually quite...

Silly and... I'm going to make Dick Cavett look like... No humor. Exactly. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to Masterpiece Theater tonight. Peter Ustinov. I have to tell you, we had a guy that did our warm-up before we knew we needed to get someone to do our warm-up. And he was the announcer on the show, Joel Goddard. Lovely man. But we just said, we don't know who does the announcing. Who does it, like, on the Tonight Show? And they said, the announcer always does it. Ed McMahon always did it for Johnny. Okay, so we asked Joel Goddard to do it. And I...

would go out and I could always tell the audience was like, I don't know about this guy. And now I think, well, that's all on me. And one night, a couple of weeks into the show, late night, 93, I'm like putting on my tie and I wander out and I hear Joel talking to the crowd and he went, and of course he went to Harvard where he wrote a thesis. Ha, ha, ha.

literary progeria on the works of Flannery O'Connor and William Faulkner. This man was born with a silver spoon in his ass. And you're going to laugh. And I thought, what the fuck? Why? Can I tell you? The angry announcer character? Maybe that is an archetype. I would hope that Johnny Gilbert does that on Jeopardy. This motherfucker. This motherfucker. Don't think

that he doesn't know the questions. He does. They're on a paper. He'll act like it's coming to him, but it's not. It's all written out. But this is, you're talking about the broader world. Like,

So for comics, right? And you probably same as me, came of age in sort of the 70s, late 70s or early 80s. National Lampoon was it. Yes. And those guys came out of... Doug Kenny, Henry Beard. Right. And they were legends in comedy and you knew that they had created a kind of...

Right. She's going to be giving lectures. Right.

You won't do a pratfall. You'll just go, and I waited three seconds and then allowed gravity to do its thing. Like the way, so coming out of that was like legend. Well, here's the thing. I guess the larger point I'm trying to- I need a sauna. Yeah, you too. You need a sauna. You can have, guess what? No. I gift you. No.

Hey, there's nothing politically incorrect about saying I gift you this woman. I think I'm on pretty solid ground. No question. Sona, I gift you. Oh, fuck. I know, it's just so fucked up. Oh, my God. Well, don't worry. This will never air. The, I guess what I was-

That it'll come out? You can. You know what's interesting? I will allow. That is my rule for my guests. But Gorley, if I fuck up, leaves it in intentionally. Yeah, he does. He leaves in all of the... So I don't get that courtesy. But I guess what I'm trying to say is that we...

finding ourselves coming. I think we came up at the same time. We're the same age. We've had these wonderful experiences, but what I'm noticing just in general, and I'm wondering if it feels the same way to you is that there was this period of,

I often feel like when you watch The Bear, that's what it felt like to me to put a late night show together. Early on, it felt like you have to live there. You're constantly living on the edge. You feel like you have to reinvent the menu every night. And then there's this brief, the period of, oh my God, people are coming to the restaurant. We got our stars. Everything's good. That felt...

Even though I doesn't feel this way to other people that felt quick. And then the eldest statesman, you better take a nap. That felt like that part lasts a lot longer. Yeah. And, and the new guys and the new gals come up real fast. And I don't know, that's how it just felt to me. And I'm not complaining. I just find it like, like a trick in time. Well, there's definitely, I feel that time jump.

related more towards, I think, the physical manifestation of erosion that I see in the morning. Like it's not, I don't feel that way about necessarily the career, but I also think we followed a slightly different path in that as a standup, like I did face,

a tremendous amount of, I guess, what my agent called failure. Yeah. And lack of success. I'm unfamiliar with this word. But having been canceled or having been, you know, done all those different things. So I think I had a different expectation of success

what making it was. And I think ultimately, and I'm sure it was a rationalization or some kind of mechanism that the success for me coming from where I came from was impulsively moving to New York with no money or prospects or anybody in my life mentioning that I might have ability and having a six week sublet and saying, fuck it.

Trenton, New Jersey ain't it. And I'm not working at the bottom half. And for the rest of my life, I'm getting that, you know, I'm putting Springsteen in there and going, it is a death trap. It is a suicide rap. And you got to get out while you're not young, but...

you know, 24, 25. I don't remember those lyrics at all. Do you know who Bruce Springsteen is? Bingo. Good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no, not Rick Springfield. Oh. Similar. Fuck. Okay. Yeah. Not Harry Styles. No. Imagine Harry Styles with a bandana. Well, different bandana placement. Harry Styles would wear it like a gondolier. Yeah, yeah.

Harry Styles would have it on here. Oh, solo mio. Taking you through the Venice Canal. Back pocket to wipe the working man's sweat off the working man brow.

Whereas Harry Styles would wear it as like, well, it's covering my pearls. I don't know what's happening. That's all it is. You have to cover the pearls. You have to cover the pearls. But it's the same idea. That's right. Harry Styles and Bruce Springsteen, it's basically the same thing. The same. That's right. That's right. If you know one, you know the other. Exactly. When I saw, I went to see Harry Styles, I took my daughter to, uh,

It wasn't Outside Lands. It was Coachella. And Harry Styles performed and I saw him and at one point he turned around and he had an H on one ass pocket and an S on the other and I thought, why didn't I think that? Can I tell you something? Yeah. I saw that and the whole time I was thinking, who's S-H? I was reading it. I was reading it.

In Hebrew. That's the problem. And so I got, and I said, Sally Hemings? What are we looking at here? You know what the problem is? Why is he doing that? And also you had your Torah stick out. What is the name for that goddamn stick? I think Torah stick. Torah stick. Goddamn Torah stick. Goddamn Torah stick. Where's my goddamn Torah stick?

But whenever I've gone to concerts with John, whenever there's any kind of reading, you know, if they put up anything on, he always takes out his tour. Where's my goddamn tour? He takes his touristic out and he goes, he goes right to left. This set list doesn't make any sense. These aren't even words. Why would he start? Yes. Why would he start with Born to Run? All true. No, no, no, no. John, that's the last song. All true.

Some trips are better in an Airbnb. It's just true. Like the trip you want to take with extended family where you want to stay close, but not all be sharing one bathroom. That's key for me. Okay, that's why Airbnb is the choice I often want to make. Or, for example, the couple's getaway where you'd rather have your own pool than share one with a bunch of strangers. Ugh. When I'm in a pool with strangers, I start shrieking. Oh.

Okay, that's weird. Or that last-minute local getaway when you just really need to get out of the city for the weekend but don't want to deal with the airport. You know, I have to say, I've used Airbnb a couple of times, and it always makes me feel like I'm at home even when I'm away. Do you have that, Herb? I do, too. I mean, you know, I have two small kids who are loud, and so when I'm in a hotel, I feel a little uncomfortable. Well, you're loud, too. Oh, yes. Okay.

Okay, yeah, we're all allowed. And then in an Airbnb, I just feel much more comfortable traveling. You're not a self-conscious. No. Yeah, and also, you're staying in someone's home. It's got that vibe of comfort, relaxation, normalcy instead of some stuffy hotel. Yeah. I don't want a mint on my pillow. Oh.

Hey, Blay, you use Airbnb, don't you? I do. I love it. And I will say, staying in someone's place really does add a lot. I'm a huge Stephen King fan, and the last Airbnb I stayed in had this book, From a Buick 8, which is one of the few Stephen King books I haven't read. So I actually started reading it in the Airbnb. It was pretty awesome. And you know what I do sometimes when I'm at an Airbnb? I often travel with a picture of myself in a frame. Oh, boy. And I take it out, and I put it up, and it feels like home. Yeah.

I travel with my own framed headshot. Do you leave it there as a gift? No! That's mine. Those things are precious. So if you're booking a trip soon, my number one tip is to check out Airbnb first to find the perfect place to stay because your accommodation really does make all the difference. Boom, boom.

You know what's nice in the old days if you wanted a cinematic experience? You had to go to the movie theater. Yeah. You had to get your ass to a movie theater. Not anymore. With Samsung OLED, you get a full cinematic experience without leaving your couch. There's actually a brand new Samsung OLED here in Team Cocoa Studio.

And it's tough to stay focused on podcasting when the picture quality is this good. I'm always losing track. Oh. I'm supposed to be interviewing one of the great people in history, and I start drifting away from them. I've noticed. Because I'm looking at the amazing picture on the Samsung OLED. Yeah, you drop the ball a lot. Maybe. Yeah.

Yeah. The AI-powered processor upscales your favorite content in brilliant 4K resolution. You get to experience colors on a TV as they're meant to be seen because this is the only OLED TV validated by the industry-leading color experts at Pantone. Plus, on OLED S95D, you get OLED glare-free technology so you can watch everything you love with nearly no glare. I can't stand glare. When there's glare, I can't even see the picture. Yeah. Game is the picture. The picture. The picture.

Gamers, you're covered too. Hey, gamers, don't worry. What's that? Gamers, you're covered too. Oh, really? Yes. Motion Accelerator 144 hertz delivers ultra smooth motion and AI auto game mode tellers your game settings to its genre.

Speaking of gaming, you know, we're going to be filming another Clueless Gamer. Bly, what game are we playing this time? I like to surprise you, so I don't want to tell you. We're also narrowing the games down. So if you out there have an idea of a game you want us to play, go to Team Coco podcast on Instagram and leave us a comment and we might pick that game. Can't wait to see how great this game looks on the Samsung OLED TV. And I'm just going to add it's AI powered upscaling. That's right. Stay tuned for the next Clueless Gamer releasing late November.

Experience TV the way it's meant to be seen with Samsung OLED. Visit samsung.com slash OLED to learn more. Upscaling utilizes AI-based algorithms. Viewing experiences may vary according to types of content and format.

You know what I love, Sona? What? Football season. Hell yeah. Football season is here. All the rituals. I get together with my buddies, my gang. Mm-hmm. My choes. Choes. I don't know what that is. Is that a word? Choes. I think it's chums and bros. You're choes. Oh, yeah, thank you. Yeah. Chums and bros are choes. Oh, okay. You heard it here first.

Anyway, when we get together, we watch the game. Friendly rivalries. I like my team. Oh, yeah? I prefer mine. That kind of talk. Football talk. But you know what's a big part of a ritual for me? Miller Lite. Miller Lite knows the passion that comes with rooting for your team. They get it. That's why Miller Lite keeps it simple. Let me explain. Please. Undebatable quality. Great taste.

Only 96 calories. That's it. That's nothing. That's nothing. That's like a Tic Tac. Only beer. It's the beer that strips away everything you don't need and holds on to what matters most. Make your game time taste like Miller time. Tastes great, less filling. Let it be both. Okay? To get Miller Lite delivered right to your door, hello, visit MillerLite.com slash Conan Ding Dong. Miller Lite here. Hey! Hey!

You can find it pretty much anywhere that sells beer. Celebrate responsibly. Miller Brewing Company, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. 96 calories per 12 ounces. Fewer cows and carbs than premium regular beer.

I don't know about you. Again, I'm just trying to, I don't often get an opportunity to talk to people who've... We did the same job. My vintage. But I guess one of the other thing that kind of fascinates me is, and again, I can't, I'm just want to compare notes. I found the early years, I'm

very happy, I'm thrilled with everything, but I found '90s and 2000s to be a time of constantly worrying, constantly fretting, constantly. - Even after the early, like it took you a while to get that flow. - It took forever, but I guess what I'm saying internally, I really like this period.

Do you know what I mean? In terms of just how I feel, I feel like- A security. Well, maybe it's, and sometimes I think, you know, I say to my wife, I think I've acquired some kind of inner wisdom because I'm much more at peace. And she says, no, no, actually testosterone levels fall. And what you're feeling is a loss of testosterone, which by the way is quite apparent in other areas of our life. It's an evolutionary trick to get you to stop striving. Yeah.

What they do is, genetically, they remove your ability. You're a neutered cat, young man. Yeah. On a windowsill. That's what I am. Licking where your balls used to be. I know. You're done. Give it up.

You're done. So there's something there. There's a scar. There's two little scars where they used to be. And if I rub them, I get some satisfaction. It's fascinating to me because again, like my observation of your track is so different than how you experience things. I remember watching your show. Like the first week I was like, Oh, these dudes, they know what, not only do they know what they're doing, but

But they're like, I remember the clutch cargo shit and like the absurdist comedy. And I was like, oh, they've like, by God, they've done it. Like I knew that there would be, you know, as you get used to productions and you're going to be sanding, people don't realize that productions are

functions of management prowess, that there's a sort of active management that you have to post-mortem. Like, you're a comedy show with a masturbating bear. Like, the bear masturbates and then afterwards you're like, so what did you guys think? Like, there's that part at the end, like, how did it go? When he was batting at his diaper, you got, no, you don't, it's gotta be in a two-shot. That's right, that's right. You know what's so funny is my favorite part of when you're doing it for a while and then

Yes, there are the years where you're taking it so seriously and everything is life. And it really does feel like The Bear. It's one of the reasons I watch The Bear. Great comedy, but I watch The Bear and I'm just... Fantastic. I watch it and sometimes I think this is too much tension and I've experienced a lot of that in my life. And I just want to watch Selling the OC. Something that doesn't have that. Well, you're watching, you know, I imagine what you liken to is a

a creative pursuit where there is a certain maniacal desire for brilliance or excellence or whatever the comedic equivalent of a Michelin star is that you hold yourself to that standard and ultimately you end up in a freezer telling your beloved you're gonna die alone and get the fuck out like that's

You know, and that's a painful thing to watch because it is analogous to that pursuit. I can remember, you know, I did a show that was more of a talk show on MTV and then we went to Paramount and we knew probably a month in, I was supposed to be the Arsenio replacement. And you can imagine people- I've always thought of you as Arsenio. Exactly. So you can imagine that people who had been, you know, sort of trained on that audience, I would pop up and they'd go, no, no.

Right. We're going to say no. So we knew, I knew like a month into it, this is fucking, we're going to go down when it happens. I don't know. And I had that same, the bear mentality of, but I'm doing a silly show. So there was one night and booking was really hard because it was syndication. So we'd appear at 3 a.m. in Atlanta, but 7 p.m. in Phoenix. Like it was just all over the place. And,

We would be there till one o'clock in the morning every night trying to squeeze every last bit of the Willy Wonka parody that we thought we were going to do. But can we really even afford the hat? If he doesn't have the hat, is he really Willy Wonka? Like that kind of shit. And in our exhaustion and in our frenetic,

and in our desire to save it and be great. One day we were all in my office, Stevie Higgins was in there, he was the head writer, and the door opens and it's the Booker. And he looks in with a look on his face of that look that maybe doctors had two weeks into the pandemic. - Right. - And he goes, "Hal Linden said no." And we all went, "What? Barney Miller's not gonna do the show?" - Right.

And it was then that I realized like, oh, I think I'm going to jump off a building because I'm my emotional well-being. Yes. Is now wrapped up into whether an actor that nobody had seen probably in a year. It was like Herschel Bernardi. He had done Circus. He was that he had done. He was the headmaster on Circus of the Stars. Right. In 1980. So he was still quite relevant. He was still quite relevant. But it was 13 years later. Yeah.

Herschel Bernardi wants to see a script and he wants to approve it. And you're like, but it was the, your whole wellbeing was tied up in these unbiased,

unbelievably trivial moments that didn't matter even five feet outside of that door. Right. But the other thing too is it was your case and was my case too where I used to live and die by what our rating was

It would come out on a Thursday. Right. And I would all day Wednesday, the tension would be rising. And then I would go home, not sleep Wednesday night. Oh, wow. And I would come in Thursday and take the elevator up. And this is back when I was on, you know, three month contracts and they're sinking. We've got a replacement ready for Conan. We just, he isn't quite ready yet, but.

We'll get rid of him soon. And I'd take the elevator up and I would come in and I would walk to my producer's office like I was going to the gas chamber. Yeah, yeah. You get these great, like, I'm telling you. And what I remember is if the number was a...

a two or above, a 2.0, it was great. If it was a 1.9, it was bad. And what I didn't realize- By the way, a 2.0 now is like a hit sitcom on a network at eight o'clock. This was at 12.35 at night. Right, an amazing number. But you know what I found out? You know what I found out was this, that was the demo. But what I remembered was

The demo, if it was a 2.0, it was like, "Hallelujah, we made it at 1.9." And then I found out much later on that the sample size, because it's a Nielsen rating for that, is literally like there's six people

If one of them has a head cold and turns in, takes some NyQuil and turns in early, you had a bat. You disappointed America that week. And if one person didn't have a head cold and watched it and all six people watched it, you were a hero.

And I always instinctively knew that I'm living and dying by this infinitesimal shit. That's called, I think, being young. You're just, you know, you're in your late 20s, 30s, you know, and then into the 40s. And then it's just... Perspective. It takes this erosion of...

I've been disappointed and scared so much that I have none of that juice left anymore. Right. I can tell you, I remember the moment that that changed for me. And it was... Was it getting this podcast? This booking? It was coming in here and reading this. I get to be in it.

and realizing that you don't consider us friends yet. No, we aren't. This is a future desire. We'll see. John, I'll let you know. I was about to read this in the past, you bastard. I was, we knew this fucking thing was dead. Like you could just see it and you could tell two weeks into it,

And I'm still thinking like- This is the Jon Stewart show? This is, yes. It was on MTV. They loved it. Right. Because it was Beavis and Butthead. It was written for seven-year-olds. So, you know, it was a huge success. By eight-year-olds for seven-year-olds. Right.

We go to Paramount and people were like, I have no idea what the fuck this is. Like two weeks into it, we do a bit. I thought it would be funny if we have David Tell, one of our writers at the time, dress up as Hitler and come out like he's a guest on the show. Like, hey, you know, everybody wonder what happened to Hitler. Oh, I think you brought a clip and it's him at Nuremberg going, I didn't fly some club.

So I don't think anything of it. I think, oh, and we're laughing our balls off because every idea you come up with is two o'clock in the morning. And you think it's hilarious because you're sleep divine in the way that Stalin would torture people like it's two in the morning.

And so they're like, what if, what if Attell was Hitler? And I'm like, love it. Let's have him come out holding a bagel with a schmear going, I don't know what I was so afraid of. These are delicious. Boom. I'm going to kill. He comes out. Ladies and gentlemen, our next guest, it's not on the docket. It's not like you have it. Like, you know, we had somebody from Beverly Hills 90210, not the lead, but like somebody who was just sitting at the peach pit. Like not even, you know, we couldn't get guests. Wait, so not, wait,

Not Joe Itada. Whatever it is. Sorry, come on. How did you remember me? Is that really a person? Joe Itada was the actor who ran the, it was the guy that ran the pizza. I even know that. Can I say something? I can't think of my son's name right now, but I know Joe Itada.

Joey Toto, we love you, man. If he's still alive, I'll eat my hat. Bingo, I know that one. That is amazing. So we don't, like, it's, you know, we've got nothing. This isn't planned. So first guest of the night, we do the monologue, do the whole thing. And at that time, it's all OJ. You know, it's all, you know, okay.

Ladies and gentlemen, first guest, very surprising. Nobody's heard from him for many, many years. We are just so honored that he chose to do this show first. Ladies and gentlemen, Adolf Hitler. Yeah. Attell walks out in full Nazi regalia. Yeah. And he's doing this and he's got the mustache and he's holding a bagel. Sure. And what I didn't realize is the crowd would rightfully boo the shit out of him. It's Hitler. Yeah. Yeah. The whole thing devolves.

I see in the control room, there's an immediate break. The stage manager comes out and goes, "They need to see you in the control room." I go to the control room. We're filming on 26th Street in New York. Paramount, our syndicator, they're watching from a lot in Los Angeles.

The phone rings. It's just one guy. And he goes, that will never see the light of day. That will never air. You will never do that again. I actually turned it into an episode when I was writing for Sanders. We turned it into an episode, Adolf Hankler, where I had on the Wu-Tang Clan and Adolf Hankler and Rip Torn had to come in and go, no, we're not doing it.

They called me immediately. I was two weeks into a show and we're already...

putting reruns on. So we knew this thing's going down, but I had your experience of like, this is my shot. Like, this is it. My name is on this. This is right. This is a manifestation of who I am as an artist, as a person. If it gets rejected, I am rejected. I wasn't sleeping. Uh, I was really miserable. I was drinking like a motherfucker, like all those different things. And one night I

In my insomnia, three o'clock in the morning, four o'clock in the morning, I just remember thinking, you're going to have had your own talk show with your name on it where you could do whatever you wanted other than dress up David Tellez Hitler. And people are going to say, did you enjoy it?

And I would have to say, I hated it. And I think it nearly destroyed me. And what a dumb fucking response. Yeah. And that morning I got up and was like, I'm going to enjoy the shit out of this. Yeah. And I don't care anymore. Yeah. And it

it was revelatory. And it was such a, I felt it physically like that relief. Now the blow of the story is they canceled their pretty school. I had the revelation and the story should have been like, and I learned to enjoy it. And the show soared and the ratings Conan. Oh, the ratings. You wouldn't believe. I was literally shitting money. It was amazing. It's like you're Scrooge. Yes. And you woke up. Boy,

Boy, what day is it? And you're shouting out the window and people are like, fuck you. We're worse than cranky old man. We liked him. What? Boy, what day is it? It's your eviction day. You're leaving. Get out. But it was the lesson of my career. And it tied into...

The sort of flip side of that was when I got Letterman a couple of years prior, which had been my sole goal for, you know, five or six years of working in the clothes. And I remember going back to my apartment and was still like a hole in the floor and it was still one room and I wasn't any taller. And so that, you know, that sort of,

that Everest that had occurred by going on Letterman, I was still the same dude. And when I got canceled, I remember thinking, but I'm not any shorter and I don't live in a smaller, and I still have the one thing that they can't take away, which is a desire to write jokes. And that's how I think I was able to, when the Daily Show came, work hard, but not make myself in the same place

Yeah. I, I think, um, I think the saving grace for me was always, I was very nervous, self-loathing, you know, uh, that's so crazy. I view you so differently. That's so crazy. All the bullshit. But when we were doing the show and Max Weinberg and the Max Weinberg seven are playing and we're doing this comedy that I

I loved in working with Smigel and working with all these great people. I loved that part. I always loved that part. I loved an audience. I loved, and I remembered thinking, uh, if this only lasts six weeks, I got to do it for six weeks. So I remember that it was the show. It was the doing of the show that saved me because the doing of it brought me joy. And also you can't do these shows unless you're in the moment of

present and taking it beat to beat,

If you're doing comedy on stage- It got you out of your head. It got me out of my head because now it's just time to go. It was all the rest of it that I found to be agonizing. But- Could anyone help you through that? Like, I imagine somebody like Lorne, who really has been through that experience of show business and ups and downs and had a longevity in that. Is that something you were able to share with him in any way? Or was that- Oh, he knew. I think the thing about Lorne and, you know, Lorne-

No one would know me if it weren't for... I think I would have made a name as a... You had already made a name. No, no, no. No, no. But I think if Lauren hadn't chosen me, you know, for that job, I think I would have probably, through various crimes, have made a name for myself. Oh, yeah. Pacific Northwest, roaming, and then eventually... Is that Conan O'Brien fighting in the Ukraine? What is he doing?

Is he on the front lines in Kharkiv? Look at that hair. But I think... So tall, what a target. They can't seem to hit him. The Wendy, a nine-foot Wendy's girl is in Kharkiv and no one seems to hit him. Amazing. But I...

You know, Lauren has an interesting thing, which is he totally put me on the map and I owe my career to him and I love him to death. But he is not and he would probably admit this, too. He he's he's a throw you in the deep end and and and watch you figure it out kind of guy. Right.

And in a way, I respect it because it works, but he's not a hand holder. He's not someone who's going to, you know, I know they tore you up, you know, and I know that you were destroyed. And, you know, I know that article came out. I mean, he used to sometimes tell me about articles that I couldn't possibly have read. He'd say like, you know, I think what the Cincinnati Post-Dispatch Register said in their supermarket handout was unfair. Right.

I think someone will eventually want to mate with you. You know? I mean, he would say, you know, and I'd be like, what?

I didn't know about, oh, no, no. But then he'd sue, he'd do that. But then he'd say, but listen, he did have an institutional knowledge. And he said, you're likable and you've got a good quality, vulnerable quality. And it'll, all I wanted to hear is your weird comedy is so cool. That's not what Lorne was saying. I think even he early on found it off-putting and fucking crazy. But he did say like, you're polite.

You're polite and your goodness comes through and that will see you through. And I'd be like, what? You're a well-mannered boy. Yeah. No, but I mean, seriously, I think... Have you thought about wearing culottes and playing into the well-mannered boy archetype? He did tell me a couple of... I think he did an interview a couple of years into the late night show and it's going really well. And he said...

I thought, well, we're we're doing such cutting edge comedy. I bet that's why Lauren, you know. And he said, no, no, no. I chose Conan because, you know, he has good manners. And I thought, fuck. But I could later on, I could see one of the points or not. It's not a point, but a mission that I've had on this podcast that was not something I set out to do. But the more and more I talk to people like yourself, the

and I'm lucky enough to get to share these experiences. I like to just be honest with people about how things feel. Sure. And I do think envy is such a big part of our culture. And we are two of the luckiest people on the face of the planet. I feel that every day. And I know I wake up every day and go, I've just had an absurd amount of luck and I give it up to luck. And I know that I've worked hard and have some ability, but I look is I give it up in 90% luck, but

I also want people who are listening, especially young people, to know that often... Be polite. Yeah, be polite. It's the only way to get a talk show. Yeah, you can be so fucking unfunny and have such an off-putting quaff on your head. But no, I do try to remind people that you can be doing worthwhile work even when you feel terrible. Sure. And that...

Everybody, we've subsequently been able to meet everybody we wanted to meet who influenced us and talk to them and talk to them at length.

And all of them have the same story. I think Eric Idle was here like yesterday or two days ago. Yeah, the seat is still very British. I can feel it. I feel a certain bloated pastiness as I sit here. Is it imperial? It feels that way. Has there been a twit sitting in my chair?

Has there been a colonizing twit in this show? So, no, but he, name anyone who you idolize, president and company excluded, they will take you through a tale of darkness, woe, and insecurity. And I just like to tell people, yeah, that's what it is. I'm sorry. If you're in comedy, you're always, I think,

potentially 20 minutes away from bombing. It's just the way it is. Always. And I always think about this when someone says, I'm doing a benefit, you can come out. And I always think, well, okay, but I got to really think about it. And they're like, no, you don't. It's a benefit. No.

People have already paid the money and they just want to know the name and that you're going to be there. And I think, I don't know, it has to be good because when it doesn't, I don't care if when I'm 90, if you go out there and it doesn't feel right and it doesn't go well, it feels worse than anything I could ever felt in my life. Where you feel like you've gone out there and they're there to cure, like we're here to prevent cancer and you're eating it. And like, they're just like, you know, it wasn't bad enough that cancer is ravaging our community. Yeah.

But now your set is, quite frankly, trite. And giving us cancer. We're finding what you're doing trite. Like bombing at a benefit. There's almost an instinct at the end of it. Like, folks, I don't have to be here, you know. We're trying to raise some money here. You can be a little less judgmental. I'm not bringing out my best stuff. Hey, you don't want a children's hospital? You don't have to have a children's hospital. Right.

It is what it is. Yeah. That grind on it is a newer phenomenon. Say that part again. The idea of grinding on it, that sort of sense of striving and kind of neuroses.

I think was a newer kind of, it was a strange new manifestation in show business that didn't like Johnny was the guy who used to do these. And he'd be like, I show up at four 30 for rehearsal. And at four 45, I'm scheduled for my first blow job. I go back. I have my first blow job. Yeah. Uh, then I play cards with Ed. We have a couple of drinks. We tape at six. And then I go home to the blow job factory that I live in. Like,

There was no, until Dave came along. A blowjob factory. Do they manufacture people there that give blowjobs? That's a great question. Or do you get the blowjobs at the blowjob factory? Conan, it's the most common question that I get about the blowjob factory. Now, first of all, I will say this. Do I go there to obtain someone who will give the blowjobs or get the blowjob on an assembly line? I don't disagree that it's somewhat confusing. I will also say this.

Globalization devastated our blowjob factories. Devastated them. And now it's all outsourced. All outsourced. They're killing us. In China, they're eating our lunch. They're eating our blowjob lunch. And eating something else. Sona, are you going to be okay? Sona, you and I have discussed at length how

How this country is bleeding blowjob factories. And you are suddenly shocked? When Biden said blowjob back better, I said...

The alliteration still works. He said, this man needs to step out of the race. Or he could have said, build back blowjob. Either way, it works. Any word can be replaced by blowjob. Build blowjob better. I don't know. Whatever it is, it is. There's a sticker being made right now. I hope so. A bumper sticker. It better be.

It probably already exists. But he really... Dave changed the nature of almost the personalities of the people that took those jobs because he worked. It's interesting because Johnny Carson, we only knew him. He goes on the air around the time we're born. Right. And then...

I don't come into consciousness, full consciousness until my 30s. But I come into, when I'm seeing Johnny, he's literally, and watching my dad laugh at Johnny, it's the earliest, Johnny's at that point, 11, 12, 13 years in, and it's set in,

So he may have had that period in the early 60s. You know what I mean? He may have had his period of, we just didn't see it. He was so established. He was the only game in town. But the pace was so different. If you watch those shows, like what we had to try and do every night is put on a circus. Like it was, you like this entertainment? How about this entertainment? How about I'll do this? His was an hour and a half, told a few lovely jokes. It was the very idea that these celebrities were,

that you had never experienced in a kind of less formal setting. Right, it's Richard Burton sitting there talking. Telling a story. Right. And it's charming in and of its own right. And by the time we got along, there's 10 of them. Yep. And everybody's got to turn that like, oh, you want to hear the record at 33? How about at 78? And everybody's running as fast as they fucking can. I've been talking about this for a while, which is...

comedy and entertainment in general keeps getting more and more and more and more compressed to the point where things get faster and faster and faster. So you can watch, just bear with me here, but you start with like Steve Allen in the fifties and then you get to Jack Parr and then you get to Johnny Carson. What you're seeing is things are speeding up and going faster and faster and faster. Then you get to Dave and that's feeling fast. But we look at those now, you look at a David Letterman from 1983 and sometimes you, you know, it's, it's,

It was at the time, as we were seeing it, revelatory and spectacular, and it still is, but now it looks, huh, this is really going kind of slowly. Then the pace picks up some more, then more, then more, then more, and to the point where I think it's, I'd notice that every time I watch something on HBO or Netflix or anything, they always, they never tell a story in a line. The story starts with...

the murder then cuts back to the beginning of the story when they're showing up, but then cuts back to the police showing up because they don't trust you to sit still. And they shouldn't. No, no, no. And trust me, they know what they're doing. It all started with Pulp Fiction. I remember when you watched Pulp Fiction, you were like, this is, the storytelling is not even linear. I don't know what's happening here. This isn't fair. Right. And now you can't watch like a cartoon on Nickelodeon that isn't like flashback. Yeah, yeah.

No, no, we did... I have... I'm shocked. When I watch most anything, and I say it's gone beyond comedy, but of course it's in comedy everywhere, is it's just...

you know, it's all in that molecular level. Think about on the internet, you know, you had, and this was years ago and it's not around now, but it's sort of informed some of it, which was vine. And vine was basically six seconds. Give me your best six seconds.

And it trained people in sort of that, the atomic nature. It's like the mate you're seeing the matrix of entertainment or comedy where it it's at its most fundamental building block. Yeah. And then there were people and you watch it and I'm always amazed now, like you'll go on an app of Tik TOK or Instagram, the level of creativity within a compressed timeframe or of, you know, an event that occurs. And then the next day,

Two hours are this explosion of neural energy and content creation that takes that. My favorite recent one was, you know, Donald Trump at the debate. You know, they're eating dogs. Yeah, they're eating people's pets. Five minutes after that, I'm on the thing. And it's that.

with pets looking scared. Yeah. And I was just like, this is the greatest. It's now at a molecular level. It's functioning in quantum comedy world. It's also one of the things, you know, the internet giveth and taketh away. Well, that's for sure. There's the pluses, there's the minuses. But,

One of the things I think has been great is it's been, it's the democratization of comedy in a way because you, me, Colbert, John Oliver, get everybody together and they're all thinking of the best idea they can possibly think of with their big teams. But the funniest person

The one who comes up with the best thing is probably in a basement in Iowa and they shoot the thing. And it's already out there. And by the way, it's out there seven seconds after the event happened. We are the insurance companies of comedy now. We are the, you know, the guys in leisure suits who are like, we're in some ways the infrastructure of show business. Like there is no more wasteful business than show business. I mean, I think we can all agree with that, which is why I think we need to save the planet.

And I vow. I would say the blowjob factory, you could argue, is the most wasteful business of all. Because we don't even know what it does. Wait, you don't know what it does? We don't know. You've got to wait till the end. What got outsourced? You've been leaving too quickly. That's the problem. No, you've got to stay with it.

Oh, I always leave very quickly. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Oh, no, no, no, no. I always... It takes minutes, boy. What? Minutes. Not for me. I'm efficient. I have a ruthless efficiency when I orgasm. I'm in or I'm out. Come on, man. What do you mean, come on, man? I don't know. You've heard the stories. You've been around.

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You know, that infrastructure and all those things and what they're showing is it's the difference between sort of entertainment is there is this legacy business and you're seeing it change now as Silicon Valley comes in. The ethos of legacy, you know, entertainment is we've created this incredibly eccentric industry.

business where like, and you need an agent and a manager and a lawyer, and they're going to take about 60% of what you pay, but without them, there's nothing you can do. And you join the studio and the studio will give you a deal and you'll sit in your room. It's the most inefficient way. Silicon Valley walked in like in the way that Elon Musk walked into Twitter and went like, how many people work here?

10,000, make it two. Right. That's so now that Apple and Amazon, they go in and they go writer's room. Wait, you've got 14 writers and they're with you from start to finish on the production. Well, it's important for the writers to be invested. And then also we're showing them how they're on the page because it's different about the

page to the screen. They've got to understand how that works and understand how we interact with the props. And they're like, they can have three weeks and it's got to be on Zoom. Yeah. And you can have four of them. Right. They're changing us from an analog business to a digital business. And I think that's the schism, the earthquake that's been going through it. I can't function like that. Like, why?

my writer. It's like, what? You know, it's not, it's, it's a, it's across the business. Many comedy writers, my vintage or younger have trouble getting work now. Right. These companies don't believe changing radically. It's changing. They don't believe in institutional knowledge. Right. That, that allows people to grow and get,

better and create more. What they believe now is the auteur system, which has always sort of existed within film and TV. And then this idea of ruthlessly efficient content factories where what matters is the real estate and not the individual creative...

I think the problem, if I had to guess, would be that you can't explain what happens in a writer's room to anybody who hasn't been in one. Imagine a coffee clutch with a lot of Holocaust jokes. But, you know, I remember... That's a writer's room. I remember on...

When I was on The Simpsons, and it was fairly early days on The Simpsons, there was a lot of excitement and a German film company came. This documentary film crew came from Germany and the director wanted to capture The Simpsons writing room in action. So I'm sitting there with Schwarzwälder and Jeff Martin

and Myers and- The legends. All these amazing people. I'm sitting in this room and they set up these cameras and the guy was there and he had like the lens around his neck and he's watching us. And what he saw was a bunch of guys saying, all right, well, we need them into the scene. And it should be, and then it would be, you know, Al Jean would be like, we really need, should probably be Marge that takes us out and be like, okay. And then there'd be this and John VD would go, what if-

No. And long silences. And you could hear the equipment. And then at one point, the guy just went, can something happen? And I'm like, this is writing. And there's a famous story of, I think it's Harry Warner or something, walked past the writers, the area on the lot, and he didn't hear typewriters going. And he was like, I better hear typewriters because those guys are getting paid. Well, no.

A lot of writing is sitting and thinking and agonizing and eating a donut. And then there's this process. People don't realize too that the idea, like you're diagramming stories, like in some ways it looks like a math problem. Like you're creating these kinds of tranches of A, B, and C storylines and drawing lines and creating arcs. And it really is a little bit of like,

beautiful mind craziness. Like you look at it and go, none of this seems to, but everybody's, you're putting the Jenga pieces together. And then in the edit later, the mistakes that you made with your original instinct can get corrected or shaved. You know, what was the biggest change for me in content creation was the invention of the Avid. When we stopped

on those in the online rooms where like if you fucked up, you had to go back to the beginning and you could start to manipulate things digitally in space. It was revelatory. Right. Because it was how more your mind works. The technology of it had not caught up with the way that you spatially kind of

see structure or plot or character or those things. When you had a tool that would allow you to work more in sync with how you think. Right. That was, because in the early days at MTV, I can remember we would do these bits, you know, these parodies and like get the little razor and cut the thing and put it through and tape it up and run it through again. Like it was. You feel like Charlie Chaplin on the set of The Gold Rush. Yeah.

Right. Yeah. It was, and we were, we saw that transition. I've always liked working with young people, A, because I'm a creep. You don't have to pay them. They're still in school. They'll work for Craig Gantt.

But no, there's like I'm very delighted by when when I see young comedic talent that really makes me laugh. Yeah, I feel better. There's this I guess there's this cliche that people in our stage are supposed to be looking at, you know, young comedians and going, I don't think that's funny. Why am I day? And I've never felt that way. I've mostly I feel like shit.

Like I, the other night at the, you know, Emmys, one of the Emmys parties, I ran into the writers that do hacks and I just stopped and said, you're doing such superb work and you started out with a great show and then the other seasons are, each one's better than the previous one. I don't know how you're doing it, but I left feeling energized and better about things because I'm always happy when young people are killing it because I think, oh, I think

civilization is going to be okay. And I'm putting that all on the writers at Hacks. It reminds me of sort of the way that they look at athletics. Like when people go, you can't compare the football players of today to the legends. And you're like, right. The football players of today, like mediocre ones, would blow their fucking doors off. Yeah. Yeah. Dick Butkus was great. These guys are running a 3-2-40. Like he wouldn't even know that they had gone past him.

And I look at that sometimes with the content now that's being created by those young comics and all that. And I'm just like, they've leveled us up. Yeah. Like they really have like, you know, people like to talk about, oh, back in the old days, we really, you know, that that comedy was great. And you're like, well, it was kind of flat footed and racist. But other than that, you're right. Right. Right. No, I'm I'm always impressed by.

and especially like in the standup world, like the level that young comics come into it. Like it's one of those things, like I see as my kids went through the college process, I was like, oh, I wouldn't be able to get into college today. Like it makes me feel that way about the comedy clubs. Like, oh, I would have to end up really being a bouncer. I am, yeah.

Oh, you'd be a great bouncer. You better leave. What are you going to do about it? Nobody expects for you to hit them. Nobody expects for you to hit them low. Nobody expects that.

You go right at the knee. I think, you know what? I would love a comedy club where you and I are the bouncers. They're different sizes and both equally ineffectual. I'll hit you high and you won't feel it. I'll hit you low and you won't feel it. Who are the bouncers? It's Ren and Stimpy. They'll take care of it.

No problem. But, you know, it's funny. I've had this experience now where, as I said, this all started out with me talking about those early years where

I often think, I honestly don't know why I did any of the things I did. I think it was all compulsion. Like I don't come from a world. Right. I came, my parents had nothing to do with show business. I don't come from a show business world. Right. I went into an environment that was supposed to be the opposite of all that. And I, like a salmon swimming upstream, I don't,

I don't understand why I did, made most of the decisions I made. There was some sort of compulsive thing that was pushing me into, I think there's this thing I'm supposed to do and I've got to get there. I've got to get there. Right. And so you go through that period and then you get, here we are all these years later. And my overwhelming feeling, and I know gratitude is a word that's thrown around a lot and it's become cliched. I'm incredibly grateful. But the other feeling I have is,

And I've had this feeling too, occasionally, you must have this, where I run into someone that graduated from college the same year I did, and I didn't know them. But they'll say, oh, you know, Conan, I graduated in 85, and I'm filled with...

with this one thought, which is, hey, we're alive. I mean, that's my overwhelming feeling is, I'm sorry I didn't get to know you on campus. I can't believe we both went for four years and didn't know each other, but that happens all the time at these schools. But the other one is just like, we're still here. There's a lot of people who aren't.

And I'm just happy about that. And I contrast that guy who I am now with the guy in 1993 who feels like someone's got a gun in his mouth. You know what I mean? But the weird thing is it may be just as you said, which is if you hadn't had felt that way, you wouldn't have pushed yourself to get to that other side of gratitude that it wouldn't have been. And I think compulsion is a really apt description of, I think for

For me, I don't know if it was compulsion as much as there was a little bit of like Richard Dreyfuss building the potato tower. No, exactly. That's what I'm talking about. And you're not sure. In E.T., yeah. Right. It wasn't E.T., it was Close Encounters. Oh, I'm sorry, Close Encounters. Yeah, yeah. No, he also does it in E.T. Oh, he does it everywhere. Every movie. In Jaws. If you remember in Jaws.

He builds the tower of mashed potatoes. Also, Mary Poppins. We're going to need a bigger plate. That's what they say. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It happens in a lot of movies, but anyway. Always Dreyfus, always potatoes, always Devil's Tower. Constantly covering for my blunders. No one knows why, but I remember. I know exactly what you're talking about. Go ahead, go ahead. This idea that I was vibrating on a frequency that didn't match

my life. It didn't match. And the first place that it began to match it is I worked at this punk club in Trenton called City Gardens. And it's sort of this legendary punk club. There's a great movie written about it called Riot on the Dance Floor. It's about the, there was a little guy who was a postmaster during the day named Randy Now, who booked all these bands like Bad Brains and Black Flag and all these tremendous bands. And I was out of college. I didn't know what the fuck to do with myself. And I found this punk club

with all the music that I loved and all these incredible artists that would never come to Trenton, New Jersey. Like they go to Philly, they go to New York and on their way, they would end up in this shithole neighborhood in Trenton and working there and feeling that creative energy. I was like, these people are vibrating on that frequency. I don't, I can't follow that road because I don't feel that energy.

but I'm going to find it. Yeah. Your version of it. My version of it. And that was moving to New York. So working at City Gardens is what propelled me to just sell my shit and move to New York in pursuit of, I didn't even really know what. Yeah. But it felt like it had to be something creative and collaborative and something. It's so funny that the, it's a great, an

analogy to the making the mashed potato mountain because in E.T. but also but also in Close Encounters Mr. Holland's Opus Thank you Mr. Holland's Opus and Dead Poets and also in Dead Poets Society but anyway When each of his students came in and tasted the mountain each one Oh Mr. Holland How I'll miss your potatoes But if I look at

Me, and again, this is... I'm just some sort of garbled... I know I have some wisdom to pass on. I just don't know that I have the eloquence to pass it on, but I... You're doing it. I didn't know...

And you didn't know, we didn't know exactly what it is we were supposed to be doing, but there was something that was making, pushing us in these different directions. Right. And I knew when I was around that energy for the first time in college and the lampoon, like, what is this? I don't know what this is, but, but, uh, and I thought maybe it's second, I got to go to second city, but, uh, I wrote them a letter and they wrote me back. Dearest improvisational actors. Dearest,

I've got an emotion for you. It's called wanderlust. Yeah. Seriously, I wrote them a letter because I thought I was writing to a bank. I think I told that to Tina Fey and they just laugh at me like, no, no, no, you go to Second City and you, oh, I wrote them a letter. Didn't seem to work out. Would you have any interest in a young Irish boy? Oh, you'll see. There's big things coming from me.

But so much of what I did, I didn't understand at the time, but I knew I had to do it. And that's where I'm in doing improv and meeting all these people who are 10 years away from being super famous. And we're just putting money in a jar. And I don't know why I'm doing this and I can't explain it to anybody, but it feels, it's like a fever. It's just a fever that you have. Yes. And then later on, you're, you're doing your thing. Uh,

And you can't force it. And not everybody does feel that in different ways. It was very clear that, you know, my friends had gone a very different route. And in some ways I felt like, especially in the early years, they were all like somewhat disappointed in me.

in that I couldn't get my shit together. I definitely like drank too much to do it. Like, cause I was just lost. Like I just, I just didn't know what to do. And also, you know, living that lifestyle at, you know, punk clubs is not, it's not like, you know, Stiv's, Bader's and the Lords of the New Church roll through. And you're like, have you tried this new green juice?

It's phenomenal. Like how's your cholesterol? Those guys are vomiting on stage. Like it just wasn't the healthy lifestyle. But the way I've tried to articulate, I think that feeling, and maybe you tell me if you think this is sort of apropos, but is that idea to trust your discomfort. Yeah. To trust your discomfort that I'm in this situation right now.

and I am uncomfortable, and I've just got to find a way to articulate for myself why it's making me uncomfortable and why I need to make a change. And hopefully the act of making change, right, is the antidote to that discomfort and anxiety. Now, do you know that that change will be successful? You have no fucking idea. But the act of doing it teaches you in some respect that you are not a prisoner of your circumstance, mindset,

mind, situation, any of those things are, your fate has not been written, boy. Well, I would say if in some alternate universe, the Jon Stewart show that you started on MTV that went to Paramount and it gets canceled, if that had turned out to be the end...

and whatever you were doing now, you would not regret a second of it. That's why it takes me back sort of to earlier in the conversation when you said, you know, what was that moment for you? And it really was the pivot point, the cleaving of the life that I was going to lead to the life that I ultimately was lucky enough to lead was one night. And I worked, there was, so I worked at this place called city gardens and I worked at this other bar called the bottom half. It was underneath the liquor store on route one, uh,

And I remember saying to them, you know what? Fuck this place. Fuck this life. I'm moving to New York. And they were like, have fun at the gay pride parade. You know, like it's like, that was the kind of bar that it was. Yeah. And that moment to me was like,

the moment. Like when they say, you know, what's, what's the best, you know, when did you know you did made it? And I was like, I knew I'd made it when I hooked that U-Haul up to the rental truck and just drove and just went up to the city. Yeah. And that was it. I always, I do always try to tell younger people, you have less to lose than you think. No question. You know, just if you think it, try it, just try it. And,

And you don't know, but you'll learn something from it. And I do end with, because I've kept you longer than most guests, just because I know you're parking. Oh, actually, I have another guest coming. I'm using this room. Go ahead. Go ahead. By the way, thank God it's in this building. When we first drove up here, I thought we were taping out of the back of the medical spa. No, no, no. I almost pulled into that parking lot.

And was like, wow. We're going to get out of the way. This is interesting. We're going to get out of the way so you can talk to Hal Linden, who's here. What? Yes, he's here. Looks like we made it.

Hey, kids, look up Hal Linden. You'll enjoy it. But I'm glad you're alive. Thank you. And I'm glad I'm alive. Yes. And congrats again on all your success. And thanks for doing this. This was really fun. My pleasure. I've wanted to do it for a while. I'm a huge fan of it. I love listening. You know, there's very little now that you can listen to that...

elevates your endorphins and your dopamine levels in a way that your podcast does with all the different guests and so much out there that's toxic to the system. And so this is a really nice salve for all of that. I've often thought of myself as a salve or a balm, which is actually the word. Always a balm, always a salve. A balm. Yes. John, go with God. What? Whichever God you want. I didn't have any of them. What now? I don't know what to do.

I'm lost. I'm talking about Jesus Christ of Nazareth. The carpenter? Yes. Oh, no. Seated at the right hand of the Father, he will come again and call it a touch, a learning and a death, and his kingdom will have no end. Who's at the last? Is it Rickles? Who is it? It's Rickles. It's Rickles and then Jesus. All right. Done. All right.

Conan O'Brien Needs a Friend, with Conan O'Brien, Sonam Ovsessian, and Matt Gourley. Produced by me, Matt Gourley. Executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross, and Nick Liao. Theme song by The White Stripes. Incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy.

Our supervising producer is Aaron Blair and our associate talent producer is Jennifer Samples. Engineering and mixing by Eduardo Perez and Brendan Burns. Additional production support by Mars Melnick. Talent booking by Paula Davis, Gina Batista and Brit Kahn. You can rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and you might find your review read on a future episode.

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