Eric Idle Returns
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Hi, my name is Eric Heidel. And I feel horny about being cornered. I only laugh because I don't want to cry. You're always cornering me at some party, grinding up against me, in front of your wife. That's the closest she gets to sex. Fall is here, here they come.

Hey there, welcome to Conor O'Brien Needs a Friend.

We're laughing already. And you know, when we can laugh, it means we're alive and life is good, isn't it? Yeah. Yes. Would you like to talk about what we were laughing about? No. Absolutely not. Some things are meant for off mic. Yeah. Some things are meant for not even off mic. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

Listen, I'm happy to be here with you guys. Just had a lovely interaction with your family. Oh yeah. Mr. Gourley. My daughter was here. Your beautiful wife, your daughter. She's how old now? She's three. She's three. She just turned three. She's never to come here again. I understand. Without my permission. I understand.

No, she was, kids love it here because we have this nice office building. Yeah. And it has lots of candy and treats. And, um. Yeah. I mean, Glenn came with a Minnie Mouse on a noose. Right. And there's a story behind that. Yeah. That was a little disturbing. She had Minnie Mouse and Minnie Mouse looked like Minnie Mouse was in bondage. Your beautiful daughter. Yes.

And some of it was kind of around the neck and it looked like frontier justice for Minnie Mouse. There's an explanation. The Salem witch trial. Yeah. Minnie committed manslaughter. Oh, I see. Okay. Then Minnie had to pay. No, we had to get her to go on our bike. We had to tie Minnie onto the bike so that once Minnie was on there, Glenn would go on the bike.

We don't tie Glenn to the bike. She has a seat. Right. But if she holds Minnie, Minnie will fall somewhere. So we had to tie Minnie to the bike seat. Okay. And we did it by hanging her by the neck till she be dead. Yeah. It was disturbing. It was. Because Minnie was lifeless and your daughter didn't seem to care. Shout out to the Disney company. Yeah.

Does Disney have any control over how they're... Once they've sold the doll, they have no say over it. I don't think so. You can do whatever you want to. Oh, wow. Normally, Glenn wears a black hood. Oh. What? What? No, just take it out for drinks. Oh, no. I wasn't saying anything like that. I was saying you could, like, stab it or light it on fire. Oh, so you're both... You... Where did you go? Drinks! What's wrong with taking Goofy out for...

a drink and watch the game. Just you and Goofy, stuffed Goofy sitting in a bar. I would like to do that and see if anyone came over and said anything. They would. Probably not. Yeah. Wait, do you treat him Goofy like he's an actual person? Sure. Okay. Someone walks by and I'm like, hey, Goofy, you know. Well,

What? What? Yeah, what? I don't know what I'm doing anymore. So Goofy just sits there with a full drink and then do you try to surreptitiously drink it to seem like Goofy's drinking or what? Yes, every now and then I drain a little bit of Goofy's drink. Oh my God. So that it looks like, and then I say, excuse me, hello, Goofy's. Goofy's running a little low here. And if there's a game playing, do you make him high five you? I go to high five him, but he just falls off limply. He just falls off the couch. Oh my God.

And then I go like, someone's had too much over here. Do you see Goofy back up to his room or does he come to yours? All right. Now we're not getting into that. Now you took it too far. I did? You did. That was you. This is a classy podcast, sir. I do want to bring up, this is reminding me that one of my sisters, I forget, was not me. It was not me. I want to say that. But we were really little. Well, it's clearly you now. Yeah.

Someone went in and I forget which sister it was, but someone went in there, cut off all the hair on like three of their dolls and then wrote, carved their name backwards onto the skull, which is so on the forehead. Your sister's name or the name of the doll? I think it was the name of my sister backwards. And are you kidding me? Yeah. And and I remember that being I don't remember who did it.

It was not me. I swear it was not me. But I remembered seeing the results and thinking, this is like, we're all really young at this point. And whoever did it just wrote the name backwards. Was the name Nanok? No, it was not Nanok. But I just remember that being like a chilling, like, oh, this is a grisly crime scene. But it was dolls. But the backwards thing is what's getting me. That feels very devil-like. No, but I think it was because they were trying to spell their sister's name, Neil. And, uh...

and wrote it backwards because they were very young. Wait, so it was someone writing someone else's name like a frame job? This was you. No, I didn't do this. I did lots of terrible things. Yeah. I did terrible, terrible things. Uh-huh. Mostly to Justin. Aw. Apologies, Justin. Aw.

I've told you this, right? I would play very complicated games. He just wanted to play cops and robbers and I would immediately get lawyers involved. I would say, well, now we have to go see a lawyer because you drew your gun. He'd be like, I didn't even fire my gun. I went, you drew it. And in Massachusetts County, you know, like in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and I would make him fill out papers. Inseparable. He was so bad. Awful person. The absence of fun. No, and there was a big gap between us. So he was a very young kid and I was in my late 40s. Yeah.

But he's fine now. They just released him. I get it. People do weird things with dolls. I used to do weird things. But yeah, it's a time of life when dolls, it can be a crime scene and it's acting things out in a safe way. Yeah. Okay. I guess. That's weird though. Your brother was a bully a little bit to you? Yeah. Danny used to beat me up a lot.

And I used to always think, hey, I got a chance. And I never did. No. Danny's a strong guy. I can't take Danny. No, you can't. No. He was a football player in high school. And he was huge. And he would be... Well, now you're making me feel like I should try and fight Danny. Oh.

You would lose. He would beat you up badly. What if, okay. He would badly beat you up. I could choose my moment. What if he doesn't see me coming? I come up from behind. Like a sucker punch? Oh, no. I'm holding something. I've got like a stick. What? That's still like kind of a sucker punch, but he doesn't expect it? I wouldn't use my real hand. My hands aren't very strong. Okay. So I would have like a big bat. Like a weapon. Yeah. You would probably win, but you'd be a bitch. Okay.

But I don't care about that part. Okay. You see a scenario where I could take your brother, Danny. Yeah. If he doesn't see you coming. Yeah. Suck it, Danny. Oh, take it easy. Okay. Um...

Have we accomplished anything here with this opening? No, nothing. This is awful. All we've managed to accomplish is we've killed five minutes. Okay. And so it's time to start the show. I think we start the show. I'm satisfied. Are you? Yes. Satisfied with less. The podcast rule. My guest today is a comedy legend, one of the members of the iconic comedy group Monty Python. His new book, The Spamalot Diaries, is out now. I can't even... There are no words. Okay.

To say I'm honored is just dumb because it's a word way beyond honored. I'm elevated, enervated, filled with light. So you're with us today, Eric Eidel. I could not be happier that you're here. You've been on the podcast before. You're one of my favorite human beings on Earth.

I will say that without reservation. He hates a compliment. But as you know, I've been telling you for years and years and years in my opinion, there's Python and then the rest of us are just dicking around. So I mean that. And I love, I want to say this right up top, that you have brought this book in that I adore. It's called The Spamalot Diaries. And

It's a joy, it's a real treat and it's about the process. And that's one of the things that I adore about it. But first let's talk about how much you admire me. I've allotted 40 minutes. Well, you should know how I feel about you.

I think you're... I can't even... Nothing, nothing yet. I think you're one of the funniest people on the planet. Oh, that's insanity. We're not doing that. No, it is. And that was a surprise to me because I always thought you were hilarious. But then I saw you do stand-up at the Largo and you kill me.

Oh, thank you so much. And I've forgotten that obviously you've been doing stand-up for millions of years when you weren't around. Not really. I had done... I never did classic stand-up, but if I'm in front of an audience, I'll try anything. And so...

Well, you're like me. You're shameless in front of an audience. I am. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. But you're much funnier than me. Nope. But anyway, let's make this about you. I'm cutting it off. I don't like this. This is about Eric Idle. You've just invited me to say something nice about you. Yeah, but I thought you'd take that opportunity. You guys really are horny friends. Get a room. I thought you'd take that opportunity to shit on me. And you fucked it up. I've had one of...

The best things that's happened to me in my adult life is getting to know Eric on a bunch of occasions. And then Eric, I know you've moved since then, but you would have me to your home. Your lovely wife, Tanya, would be there. Your daughter, Lily, would be there. My wife and I, Eliza, would go. And you'd put together this salon of really funny, cool musical people. But one of the things that always grabbed my attention is I'd walk in the front door and there was a poster and it was from university.

It's from 1963, I think. It is from 1963, and it's from the Edinburgh Festival. Yeah, it's from the Edinburgh Festival. It's my first public performance. And it's you as a squeaky young lad, and it's a giant photo. I think of a handsome young man with the world ahead of him, you know. Okay, squeaky might not be the right. I meant you were clean, squeaky clean. Probably, yes. But it's...

It's this poster from 1963, and it's when you're getting started. This would be easily six years before PyCast.

But you're just getting started. And I always looked at that. Every time you had me over, I would look at that poster and kind of time travel back to this other time when all of you guys were getting started and finding your way. It's before you all found each other. And it's magical. That's not quite true. You see, oddly. That's true. You had worked together. Yeah. Quite by chance. I had already met John Cleese. Mm hmm.

I'd already met Graham Chapman, who was at St. Bart's Hospital studying to become a fully qualified alcoholic.

You know, I like a person who does their, really does their work. Puts the time in. Yeah, puts the time in. And I met an Edinburgh, Terry Jones and Michael Palin who were doing the Oxford review. So in 1963, we'd all met. You'd all met. With the exception of Terry Gilliam. Right. Whom no one has yet met. You can meet him, but you still haven't met him. Yeah, I would look at that and, and,

and just think about, this is a document. This is a, you know, I'm a history buff and I'm also a comedy buff. And to look at that poster

It was always hard to lure me away from it because I just thought that's the year I was born. And I just want to I wanted to put that in just to accentuate that. But it's also the year of the Beatles. Yeah, it's the year of the Beatles in England, not the not the year of the Beatles in America. We think 64, but it was 63. Yeah, very much so. At the Edinburgh Festival was the first time.

all the guys were playing all their records and we go, what's all this about? What's all this about? So, yeah, these, these guys with this weird hair that are living from Liverpool. Absolutely. And then they came through Cambridge the year after and everybody changed. The whole world changed that we used to wear little old tweed jackets with leather pads. Yeah. Suddenly we're wearing beetle jackets and says, who's your favorite beetle? Yeah. You know, and so they, they actually did literally change the world after that. You know, it's funny. You can look at,

college yearbooks and high school yearbooks from 1963. In the United States, if you look at a high school yearbook from 1964, everyone's got buzz cuts and horn-rimmed glasses. Everybody. And they all look kind of the same. And then you look at the high school yearbook from 1965. There's still the occasional guy with a crew cut who just can't get the message. But everybody else has that hair. It changed everything. But

We'll talk about the Beatles another time. I want to talk about... The Rolling Stones. The Rolling Stones. They took the blues.

Which is deceptively simple form, and they transformed it. I have a theory, actually, that Python, which this was all rock and roll, came in just in those years. And everybody's, the band used to be in the pit, and then they came up on the stage, put on tight trousers, started to play loud music, and all the girls chased them. And the comedians had to wait in the wings for a while. Yeah.

But my theory is that Monty Python became the first mock and roll group. Yes. Because we did stadiums. We ended up playing the Hollywood Bowl. We did O2. We were the first ones. And...

And the second was, of course, Saturday Night Live. Yeah. Because they had all, they brought rock and roll into it. Yeah. So the comedians were all fighting back then. Yes. It was, it's funny you say that because, and then, yeah, I guess I'd be third in that line. Wait, what? I came along and people were like, you know, women were like, I gotta fuck that guy. No, no. They were just saying, fuck that guy. Oh, yeah. Oh, I misheard it. Yes. I misheard it. Yeah.

Now, you're right. Okay, I got to get the hearing checked. When I first did SNL, the first time I did it, my first guest was Joe Cocker, and Belushi came on and mocked him. So that was actually really mock and roll. But this is an interesting trajectory because your good, dear, departed friend, George Harrison, famously said he felt the Beatles break up

Sort of, I think, technically in 69, beginning of 1970. That's right when Python is hitting the air. And George Harrison said he really felt the spirit of the Beatles was passed on and went into Python. And I thought, did you guys ever talk about that? Did you talk about that with George? Well,

talked about almost everything because when we met we just talked all night and we just talked and talked for about two or three weeks but what was it like being in your group what was your group like what was your John like but I think the secret of it was that America your John everyone's got to have a John but what was America what happened in America was when the

when the Beatles first arrived in America, what made everybody love them was they were funny. Yes. And there was this guy called Ringo with a big nose, a funny name, the funny haircuts, and everybody knew Ringo first. That's the first name they knew. But it was their humor at the airport conference that broke them in America. I'm convinced of it. And so, in a way, they were just as funny as we were. They just were all Liverpool people.

comedians really. But they went the wrong way. They went the wrong way. They went on the dark side. They wasted their time in music when they really could have been a sketch troupe. They really could have been a sketch troupe. And it's sad when people take the wrong turn, but what are you going to do? What I really wanted to start with, because sometimes people bring their project along and I think, okay, we'll get to that.

The thing that's special about the Spamalot diaries is when you were putting Spamalot together, and this is 2004, 2003, 2004, you kept a diary of the entire process of putting it together. You then set the diary aside. And I remember going to your house when you and Tanya were packing it up to leave, to move to a different house, and you were packing everything up

In that process, you find the diary that you had forgotten. I had completely forgotten I'd written it. I completely forgot I'd kept it. And I read it and I gave it to actually Puddles, you know, Puddles, his wife, to read. And she said, this is great. And I gave it to my wife and she said, oh, this is fantastic because what's interesting about a diary is you don't know what's going to happen.

You don't know it's going to be that thing and it's going to be successful. So it's full of anxieties and arguments and rows and it's the process. Yes, this is what I love. I keep saying about it, it's a process, not a miracle. There's this misconception and maybe it's

It's appropriate. It should be this way. People love to think they're going to come in and they see something miraculous and that it just happened. And maybe that's the way an audience should look at it. But what's amazing is you read through this diary because I think, well, oh, yeah, spam a lot. Massive hit sold out forever. So, of course, it just happened. You read this and you you see how much work anxiety rewrites and the creative energy

wrestling between you and the director, Mike Nichols, the famous Mike Nichols. You have emails in here. You have notes back and forth. There's disagreements with other, you know, or sometimes friction with other pythons.

And you're just like Job. You're just going ahead trying to make this thing happen. I think that's what's interesting because – and I'd forgotten about it. I was just writing every few days what I was feeling. And so it's just kind of a direct form of honesty.

And I kept in the rows because I thought, no, no, people mustn't believe that the artistic process is just we'll have a cup of tea and we'll make this thing. There are conflicts. People need to be angry. We used to row in Python about what sort of chair it should be. That's not a funny chair. This is a funny chair. No, no, this is a funny chair. So I think those are important. And so I kept in, particularly the row,

early on with Mike because I thought it was very important for people to understand that you must maintain your vision of something if you're a writer and you're doing a play and the director doesn't have every say. Fortunately for us, we'd been friends for 15 years. You and Mike Nichols had met. Mike and I, we'd just been pals. We'd been on holidays. We'd had the best of times. Been to the theater, been to places all overseas, and we had never had a crossword before.

And then suddenly we're working together and it's a completely different relationship, obviously. Now you're the real, you're that person, he's that person.

And I thought, well, I'm going to leave that because I think it's important to know that people establish who they are and then they can move forward. I guess the part that is most fascinating to me is the statement that one of the themes that comes through in the Spamalot diaries, and this applies not just to Spamalot, but to Python and I think just to comedy and all work, is that fighting, arguing is an

an essential part of the process. Turmoil, anxiety is part of the process. And I cannot tell you how many... When someone tells me, oh, I love to write. I just love writing. I think you must be a terrible writer. Because I don't... That's not my process. And my wife is a very good writer. And she will tell me, oh, I'm just...

I hate it. It's miserable. And I'll say, right, exactly. Yes, that's what it is. That's, you know, keep going. But that's what it is. I think if you're content with what you're writing, you're not very good. And almost all great writers, you know, I think Graham Greene said he'd written one or two sentences he was quite proud of.

Sentences. I think all writing is like that because you're trying to capture flies in aspic. I mean, it's really a very difficult thing you're doing. You're putting down life in this code, 26-letter code. How does that possibly even work? And how some people have the gift of making you just read any sentence about anything and you just pick up a book and you just read them all the way through because of the way they write.

I find that fascinating. Well, it's also, I read a biography recently. There's a wonderful biography of Mike Nichols.

And you find out, I mean, his childhood and his experience fleeing Nazi Germany, coming to America, kind of remaking himself. He famously had alopecia. He lost all of his hair, having to wear a wig. Not speaking English. Not speaking English. And he completely remade himself into the coolest, smartest, most urbane guy doing comedy along with Elaine May.

the sheer, not just talent, but will to, and the amount of struggle and pain you have to go through to remake yourself as Mike Nichols into that. And then I think you, we've talked about it before in the previous podcast, and you've been very open about it. You had, you have a very difficult childhood in many ways. Yes, yes. I think that's an advantage in our hearts. I think, yeah.

But nobody had a more difficult childhood as Mike. And for me, there's a new book about the making of Virginia Woolf, which he's in. And I'm amazed. It's his first film. Yeah. And he's standing up to Harry Warner and saying, no, it's going to be in black and white. Who's afraid of Virginia Woolf? He wanted to shoot it in black and white. He's got the two biggest stars on Earth, Richard Burton and Elizabeth Taylor. And.

And he's a young punk who's never directed anything in his life. And he's telling the biggest man in show business to fuck off. And so the balls on that guy, absolutely incredible. Unbelievable. But it's based on some kind of his perception of what should be was really pure. Right. If Mike said something and it wasn't quite right, you go, oh, it's not quite right. I never had any doubt.

that sometimes he would, he was a most fabulous friend of hell. He didn't write, but he wrote with you in a sense. He'd say, well, we need somebody to say this. And then I say this. And he would encourage it out of you.

so that you wrote better, always with him. Well, there's a line in the Spamalot Diaries, you and Mike Nichols, there's a lot of correspondence back and forth between you two. And at one point, Mike Nichols writes you and he says, I've given, I've been thinking a lot about you, Eric, and your childhood. And he's talking about, he acknowledges that he had a crazy, insane childhood, but he's talking about how your childhood was so difficult. And he said this line that really stuck with me, which is,

I guess we all inoculate ourselves against our own childhood. And that really stuck with me that whatever happens to us individually, and this goes to anyone listening, it happens to you, you tend to dismiss it. Like, "Well, no, I was fine. "Oh my God, what this other person went through." You know what I mean? And when Mike Nichols says that line, he said,

Because you're so good. I don't know how much of it is being English and how much of it is your own character as Eric Idle, your own personality. But I could just see how you have a stiff upper lip. You could be very dismissive of any kind of pain in your life. I'm fine. Oh, this poor other person. But how much is that? How much of that is English? How much of that is you? And you're going to be charged for therapy when this is over. Yeah.

I don't know. I mean, I think you learn empathy. I mean, you start by being a negatistical shit by going into show business. Look at me. I'm in show business. And then you can behave very badly. And I learned from lots of very good people, like Robin Williams taught me how to be nice to fans. I would just tell them to fuck off.

and they would laugh and go away, you know. But that was good enough for them to say, oh, he told me to fuck off. I just was told to fuck off by Eric Idle. And that became a thing. And then I watched Robin and his empathy and remembering that this is somebody's moment in their life and it's a big moment in their life because they've waited, they love you, they want this moment. So if you are a shit or dismissive,

It's a nasty memory. So what I always do is I always say, well, I'm Eric, and I get their name. Yes. And then you're on a one-to-one human basis with them. Yeah. And you're not some kind of god, and they're not some abject fan. So I try and I think that works in all sorts of situations where you remind people that they're people. Yeah. And we're just here at this moment. ♪

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It's funny you mentioned Robin because I didn't realize how close you guys were. You guys were very close. And I was lucky enough to have some great interactions with Robin Williams before he passed.

One of the most memorable examples to me of his kindness is when I went through my whole Tonight Show debacle. And finally, the show is done and I don't know if I have a career anymore or what am I going to do next. You remember this part very well, Sona, because Sona was with me during all that. And I'm lying on the floor in the living room of my house and my phone rings and I pick it up.

And it's Robin Williams. I don't even know how he got my phone number. I'll never forget. He goes like, how you holding up, chief? And I said, oh, Robin, thanks so much for calling. And he said, you know, listen, you know, you're going to be fine. You're going to be great. I know you like to ride bikes because he was really into bicycling. And he said, I know you like riding bikes. Go down to this, the bike shop down in Santa Monica. I want you to go down there and I've set up a bike for you. And...

I said, "What?" And he said, "No, no, no, just head on down there and ride around, you'll feel better." And I went down and it was a Colgana, which is a very nice bike.

And he said, I told him to paint it in all these crazy Irish colors. And I get down there and it's the most, it's the ugliest. I mean, it was just, you know, greens and shamrocks and everything. And I couldn't believe. And he was like, oh, you're going to like that bike, chief. Don't worry about it. And I just thought I thanked him many, many times. I just couldn't.

believe that he was thinking about me. You know how we are in life. You think about someone, oh, that's too bad what happened to him. Oh, whatever. Anyway, I'm going to go get a sandwich. No, no. He reached out. He thought what might please you. He went and got to the shop and chose. I mean, he would put a lot of effort into making you feel better, which I thought that's very, very Robin. That's fantastically typical Robin.

And that generosity and kindness is something combined with the wit on the man is not a common combination. Yeah. You know, I don't think Dr. Johnson was busy sending people. Maybe I don't know. But I think. He had Boswell do it. He had Boswell. Boswell, send that fucker a bike.

There's so much in the book that I wanna make sure I weave in because you hit on so many themes I love as you're approaching the premiere. Of course, now we all know how the story turns out, but when you're reading through the book,

it is very much what you say. You're reading these texts, these messages, these diary entries day by day. You don't know what's going to happen. And you can feel the anxiety. You can feel the self-loathing. You can feel the gloom. And at one point you say, I think the English, there's an English tendency to prefer failure. And I thought that is so fantastic because in a strange way, I understand how failure can feel more comfortable and a big hit is,

It's the tall poppy syndrome, which is very Irish. It's very United Kingdom. It's what do you do with a big hit? And everywhere you went, people were congratulating you and you you're uneasy with it. I wasn't used to it, but also I didn't.

quite expect it and it's it takes a while to know what to do with that right because you're still trying to understand how we fixed it is it did it really work and mike would always keep on making it better and better he cut little bits and and keep improving it but but i think there is a thing in england that um that that uh failure is a is a noble and a wonderful thing and if you look at

like Dunkirk and some of their great victories, the English ran away quite a lot. Which is often a wise choice. Maybe a good choice. If the English don't run away in 1940, they are not there to fight Hitler in 1942. So, yeah.

No, I mean, I think there are many reasons for it. But also, I think the tall poppy, which is what the Australians also call it, is also that. When you're on a small island, people are envious of people's success. And so people try and either play it down a bit or, oh, yeah, I did happen to climb Everest last week, but I'm also working on some Latin thesis, you know. I mean, people tend to try and diminish. Yes. It's not a...

America's great because they say, "Let's all try and be successful." That's the starting point. And it's fine. In England, if you've been successful and you've got a car, people will scrape the car with their knives. They go, "Bye, you bastard." Whereas in America, the reaction would be, "One day I'll have one of those." And I think it's a completely different attitude. This is something Bono said

Bono said that, you know, in America, if you see a house on a hill and you walk by and you see a mansion on a hill, you think,

someday I'm going to have that mansion. He said, in Ireland, if you see a big mansion on a hill, you think, I'm going to burn that fucker down. Yeah, I understand that. I don't want it for myself. I just don't want that asshole to have it. It's funny because this leads into my next question, which is that, yeah,

you bring up that you had this realization at one point that the Holy Grail, which is spam a lot, that it's really about Python and the members of Python. This resonated with me right now because

All you do, you just said it right now, is, you know, there's this tendency to want to run away all throughout Holy Grail. One of the reasons Sir Robin is able to, his only strategy is to run away. Run away, run away. And I've, you know, always. King Arthur says run away. It's a command. It's a command. Yes, yes. Robin does. You're quite happy. Right.

Robin denies he's running away. He's pissing off and buggering off. No, no, no. Braves to Robin. Yeah, yeah. But you talk about and you go through and you talk about the different members of Python and how they kind of fit their role in the Holy Grail, whether it was intentional or not.

Because I had to bring... I mean, there were 98 characters in The Holy Grail. Yeah. So I put that on stage. So what I did was I collapsed as many as I could of the characters played by Michael Palin into one character or aspects of that character. And the same with me and the same with Lancelot, John Cleese, you know. So that...

So that then when you do that, you do find more of Michael, who's always like, you know, he really wants a bit of temptation, but he better hadn't. No, no, I got to go. I got to go. No, yeah. What am I being rescued from all the girls who are horny? Oh, yeah.

And you could tell he's, yeah, it's so lovely. He made two films about that, too, of his own, which that's basically the same theme. He's perhaps not. I think it's very significant about Michael. It's so funny because I relate to both your character. I relate to running away and...

you know, no, there's some temptation. Oh, well, I should probably go watch my cholesterol. I'll just be over here, but I'm going to think about it a lot and I'm going to hate myself a little bit. But yeah, you go through, it's very convincing that whether it was intentional or not. I think that often writing reveals

I mean, I think good writing is definitely all about yourself in some really bizarre way. And when you're adapting something, a piece of work, it's very nice to come across themes that are just in there. There's one scene when Michael is being led away from Castle Anthrax, you know, and Cleese is getting him out. Come on, let's go. He says, no, couldn't I have a bit of temptation? No, no, no.

Don't worry. No temptation at all. And just as they leave frame, you hear Michael say, oh, I bet you're gay.

And we use that for a whole scene where Lancelot's whole rage and anger is explained by the fact he's repressing, you know, he really is. He's repressing something, yeah. He's repressing it all and out he comes. And he dances to the song, his name is Lancelot, he likes to dance a lot. There's a huge Peter Allen number. I find that that's really the most exciting thing about adapting music

work is finding little things in there which will make it work on stage because because mike and and uh casey there there was a whole scene we we kept trying to write the spanking song and you know because the girls say oh spanking spanking tonight and we keep writing a spanking spanking that's going to be us and they said no no and they would not have it so the way out was this

Just this hint in the script, which I improvised, and it was just, it was fabulous to find. Because it makes Lancelot's character very much more, he's not just angry, he's angry because he had an angry father. And he stands up for Herbert saying, this man is your son. And he comes up with the most,

Wonderful. Like it could be Arthur Miller. Yeah. And stands up for him. And it's a very nice dramatic twist in Act Two, which I like. You said in Python there were disagreements. I know in my comedy career, I just be

became with all my different collaborators and creative partners, arguments and fights. You'd come down to if someone else was listening to it, they'd think you were insane. You talked about how you'd all argue in Python about, is this the right chair? No, this isn't the right chair. No, the dead parrot should look like this. It shouldn't look like that because that's not funny, but this is. I remembered Robert Smigel, one of the genius people I've been fortunate to work with over the years.

I remember once us going back and forth, arguing about something forever. And this is maybe 30 years ago. And I said, no, but it got a big laugh. And he went, yes, but that's not the kind of laugh we want at that point. And I was thinking, it's a goddamn laugh!

What do you mean it's not the laugh we want at that point? But I also understand what he's saying, you know? And so, but anyone else listening outside the door would think these two idiots, what is their problem? But I think that is the common thread

Just in this process, I think if you're trying to do it right, which is… I think it's a fascinating process. And I always had some very good mentors. We used to write for jokes for David Frost. I had Barry Crine, Dick Voss, people who taught me how to be, you know, what to do and how the ropes. And then you become, you find your own compartment.

companions who then become argumentative. It really was very argumentative. I mean, sometimes rows, huge blazing rows would break out. But again, I think that's because if you don't care, it's not important. And I think I was not very good at standing up because

because I was a solo writer in that group. And I remember, and then that's why I think I got on with George. He was a solo between two big forces of Lennon and McCartney. Right. And I was between, you know, Mike and Terry wrote and John and Graham wrote. And I remember when George came out to the filming of The Life of Brian, he paid for it. He said, how's it going? I said, well, it's all right. It's hard to get on screen, you know, with Michael Palin and

John Cleese. He said, imagine how I was trying to get into the studio with Lennon and McCartney. Mic drop. Okay, you got it. I got it. You think you have problems. Yeah, exactly. Cry me a river.

This is, and we don't have to talk about this, but it's something that as a lifelong, someone who's been so influenced and odd by Python, I think of it as sort of Santa Claus, like a child. I just want to believe that everyone's getting along. And you and Cleese famously lately have...

had your disagreements and that have come out in public. And I know I'll think, oh, I don't want mommy and daddy to fight. But that's childlike of me because, you know,

You're human beings that disagree and you've known each other a long time. We don't disagree about comedy. This is only about money. This is only about business. And there's no reason. I mean, a fool and his money are easy parted, you know, six of us, you know, much more quickly. I think there's no right or wrong way to deal with business.

And if somebody has one view of it and somebody doesn't and somebody has another, those can lead to very bad arguments. And unfortunately, we don't see each other enough. I haven't seen them in 10 years. It's been 10 years since you saw John? Nine since John, 10 since Mike. If you don't sit across the table and know that person and what decade they're in, I think there's a lot of room for disagreement. Yeah.

You know, we're just old. And it's like we never disagreed on the very important things on what was funny, really. But that was a while ago. You know, there's also a misconception that anyone could have, which is, wait a minute, Monty Python, the most, in my opinion...

influential show of all time. And then that led to these movies, which are, in my opinion, flawless and beautiful and fantastic. And that you've all gone on to these things. And then, of course, Spamalot, a huge hit. And you talk about how there's this perception that, well, everyone in Python must be driving around in Bentleys.

with cash, you know, in convertibles with cash just flying out. And that, uh, you say, you know, we're all touring to keep, you know, at this age to keep it going. And that's, I think that's a misconception that people can have. I think so because, uh,

You know, it sort of depends what sort of deals you have. And nowadays, residuals are becoming a thing of the past. You know, they've got all the music residuals. You know, you've got Spotify and YouTube. Everything takes everything. You know, I mean, I think it's very difficult. I don't mind it because I quite like doing what I do. I quite like going out there and making people laugh, see if I can still make them laugh.

Because I think that's a sort of little joy that we get. I think it's a secret little joy. We're all comedy junkies, laugh junkies. And so I'm about to go and do a tour of Australia and New Zealand, and I've got some really wonderful surprises.

I like surprising people. I like making my shows about something. So there's like a through line. I was with Professor Brian Cox last week and he said, he's doing a show. And I said, what's yours about? And I said, mine's about the meaning of life.

And he said, well, so is mine. I said, yeah, but mine will be deep. You introduced me. You introduced me to him at a part. I mean, again, this is one of the gifts of getting to go to Eric Idle's home is you said, oh, here's Brian Cox. And we chatted and he's this brilliant mind. And the next thing you know, he's I become somewhat

you know, friendly with him. And I think this is, you have salons, you have, it's nice what you do. You get really smart. It's not just funny people. It's music people. It's people from science. It's people from astrology. It's people who are historians.

And I can just see that you have this endless joy for trying to figure it all out. I like putting people together. I like conversation. But love at the end of the evening is a ding-dong. We have a play. And so I love musicians. And so I've always got musicians.

Anybody, like Brian Cox, if he's going to tell you about Quantum, that's very nice over dinner, you know. Yeah. And he also plays the piano. So we have gigs. His son George plays guitar. Wow. And I've been playing with this group

who have been playing with the Monkees, and they're really great. We just sit around and play hit after hit. That's when I'm happiest. After dinner, out come the guitars. We'll just sing for hours. It's funny you say this because, what is it about? I love playing guitar. I could never make a dime off of it, but it's my hobby, and I really love doing it, and I got to do the...

Newport Folk Festival a month or two ago, and there's footage of it, and I'm up there playing with all these amazing people, and Jack White came. But the comment that shows up every time I'm

I'm up there is Conan seems this is the most joyous I've ever seen Conan. He seems so much happier doing this than I thought. I love comedy, but they're not wrong. No, I love that. Me too. I'm just playing and gigging with people and having fun and listening because it's a different part of your brain. You're not thinking, you're not obsessive. And where's the next laugh? You

you know, you're just feeling the next chord. I love that. And I'm doing a show now, which is really a one-man musical. Yeah. And I do a couple of songs. One's a tribute to George Harrison I wrote, which I really like because I miss him a lot.

and one's for Robin, which I wrote for his memorial. And it's a very sweet song. And I put up pictures of them. And it's kind of a nice way of recognizing that people have moved on and gone and say, well, this isn't all like,

you know, it isn't all maudlin. I mean, there's a lot of, there's some good jokes, but. Well, you've written, first of all, it's the, it's the most requested song at funerals. I think in, certainly in the UK, maybe in the world. And what's the second? Yeah.

That's a really good question. Actually, it was my way it replaced. Which is really a terrible song for when you're dying, isn't it? I did it my way. I smoked, I smoked and smoked. They said I shouldn't, but I did. I ate fatty foods. They said I shouldn't, but I did. The, um...

You wrote "Always Look On The Bright Side of Life" and it's such a great song. I mean, it's an amazing scene in life of Brian. And at the time I remember it extremely controversial because people are being, they're dying, they're on a crucifix and they're singing "Always Look On The Bright Side of Life." And I think it's everything, it is the perspective

that I completely 100% agree with, which is this is terrible and ridiculous and silly at the same time. That is sometimes the only way we can go, we can move on. And it's got my, one of my life's got a funny plot. You're here and then you're not. Like it's, that's all there is to it, I think. Yeah.

Yes. I mean, what's really funny about always looking on the bright side of life is you are being crucified. There's very little to look forward to at that point. Let's face it. If there's any point in life... Eric, I think you're being overly negative. Yeah, you're giving it a bad rap. You're getting a good stretch of...

in the low back oh god where you are oh man between the l4 and l5 you get gravity is giving you a little pull but it is an ironic song and i think it's a war song and i think it comes from my father my their generation their songs was like oh always look on the bright the blue sky blue skies and you know bluebirds over the bright they were always about future optimism

because they're in a war. So I think that's what that sort of song is. It's just like a war song. And it was played in the Falklands when HMS Sheffield was hit by an Exocet and

And they had to wait for rescue for three hours. They sang that for three hours. And so I think there is something recognizing that it is a ridiculous thing. And teams, you know, seeing it when they're losing at football. I mean, they move on the bright side. You know, there's nothing to look forward to at that point. Right, right. We're down. It's over. There's not enough time left.

I have to ask you this because I know that you've talked about playing guitar with these iconic musicians. You played for hours and probably thousands of hours with George Harrison. You also stayed up all night once in Rome playing with Keith Richards. And I'm just curious.

how you can don't you leave your body at some point and say that's keith richards i'm playing guitar with or that's george harris i'm playing guitar how do you get over that oh i i think pretty quickly because you're playing along you know so you're in the moment if you're playing with somebody and i luckily i had a pretty good back i had a jazz guitar background so i i knew better chords than they did often right but but with keith you know i mean keith is like

the most extraordinary he's like Noel Coward you know he behaves oh dear boy do come up and have a what can I get you I mean he's like wearing you know dressing gowns and very calm you know he's not he wears the lunatic you know that's hilarious oh come in please please do come in and he's wearing like a

He's wearing a caftan? Not a caftan, dressing gown. Dressing gown. And a little, you know, smooching. Oh, dear boy, can I get you a glass of brandy? What would you like? How can you take? You know, I mean, quite a different world than you'd expect. And we did sing all night that night. And, you know, it was in Rome.

And went in Rome. Went in Rome. So then the next, I turn up at the set and Chevy, I hadn't got any words left. It was my last scene. Yeah. And then Chevy comes up to me and says, I've written this big new scene for us. Oh, is this for European vacation? Yeah. And I went, I've got to go.

I'm so fucked. So you had to lose a scene in European Vacation because you were up all night playing and singing with Keith Richards. I'm sorry, yes. Well, that's probably as good an excuse as anybody. I think it's worth it. Yeah, I'm going to miss the next podcast. I'm sorry.

I was singing all night with Keith Richards. No, no, no. He's in London. What are you talking about? You're in the Pacific Palisades. You were with Richard Keiths. Yeah. We got on this very dark topic of death and everything. You have one of the funniest ideas ever I've heard for an inscription on your tombstone, which I really like.

I'll tell you what it is because you've clearly forgotten. Eric Idle, see Google. I'm glad to know that still stands up. Why? Why not? I mean, what are we getting into here? Exactly. The rest is nonsense. Yeah. Well, I want to thank you, Eric,

It's a great day for me when I get to spend any time with you. You're one of my all-time heroes, and you've changed my life in so many ways with your work when I was a young lad. And you guys completely, I think, reordered the universe and showed us all what could be done. And I still think you're far ahead of everyone else.

My love to your family, Tanya, and of course, Lily, who I adore. The book is The Spamalot Diaries, and it is a joyous read. It's a little harrowing at times, but it's great. And it's a great book for anyone to read who's in the process of trying to make something happen.

It could be a Broadway play. It could be anything you're trying to do. It's very inspirational. Yes. Thank you. And so you've given people a real gift here. That's very kind. I like that. I'm glad that that's so because I do think it's a process, not a miracle. Yeah. And let's end with just explaining our shirts. Sure.

Indeed. You want to explain these? Well, these shirts are to raise money for a statue for Terry Jones. And they're going to build a statue for him on the promenade in Wales.

where he comes from, Colwyn Bay, and they're raising money on a go-for-fun-me basis, and so we're here promoting. I think there should be a statue to Terry Jones. I think this is a lovely idea. We're hoping it will be the nude organist, but we're not sure. LAUGHTER

And you said it was a GoFundMe, is that correct? It's a GoFundMe. It's a GoFundMe. Yes, it is. So people can just, well, they can see Google. Yeah. Very nicely done, sir. Eric Idle, go forth and do good works. Thank you. Yes. Always a joy to talk to you. Thank you.

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On an episode not too long ago, we talked about your grandma Maude. Maude, right? Yeah, Maude. Yes, this would be my mother's mother, Ruth Reardon. And yet, for reasons we didn't know when we were kids, everyone, we all called her Maude.

And then I asked her once, why do we call you Madi? And she said that there was a cartoon strip back, maybe even before the turn of the century or at the turn of the century. I believe she was born in 1890 and she was on a boat.

and some kids were harassing her, you know, teasing her. And so she kicked at them and they started calling her Maudie, Maudie, because there was a well-known cartoon at the time about a, I don't know if it's a mule or a horse that kicked people. Oh my God. Here it is. And this is the mule or the horse kicking someone right there. And her name was Maud. And her name was Maud. This is it. Oh my God. I'm trying to see.

what the date is on this. That would be cool to know. I can't see. I can't make out the date. I thought it said 1904 somewhere. Would that be too late? No, I don't think so. You can still kick people when you're 14. This is really cool. This is... Her classmates sound like dicks. Well,

Well, don't they? I mean, kids don't change. I know, but they were bugging her so much that she needed to kick them. And then they started calling her a kicking mule. Well, yeah, but it's not like the name stuck and her grandchildren ended up using it. Oh, no, this is so cool. This is a good there's a guy who gets kicked by a mule. He's

He's angry, so he takes the mule. He says, I'll fix this pesky critter. He ties the mule up. The mule kicks some more people. It's kicking automobiles. It's kicking everybody. And then the people realize...

that the owner's the one that caused all this problem. So they go and they kick him. Mm-hmm. And the mule then gets to laugh at the owner who just got kicked. Mm. Hee-haw. Oh, and by the way, you can see this. Just go to at Team Coco Podcasts on Instagram. My question is, did they do the same bit every week? I don't know. How many of these cartoon strips...

did they do? At least this is a cartoon strip that's acceptable today. If you look at a lot of cartoon strips from the turn of the century, they would not pass muster anymore. They're incredibly despicable. No, but wait until you find out that Mule's politics.

Wow. This is an America first mule. This is a closed border mule. This is so cool to see this, to think that my grandmother would have seen this. It does say to be continued next Sunday. Yep. So I bet there's a whole story. Yeah, I think this, my guess is this mule just keeps on kicking people. Yeah.

I have a little info about it. And Her Name Was Maude is the name of the strip. It's a comic strip by Frederick Burr Opper. It first appeared in the Hearst newspapers on July 24th, 1904. That's it. The rest is stuff. Wait, you... Can I just say, Adam, you approached the mic like, I've just got some news. The Hindenburg has exploded at Lakehurst, New Jersey. All souls have been lost. Even you seem surprised by your own lack of information. This is less interesting than I thought it would be. Yes.

Her name is Maude in 1904. Newspapers. Yeah. Although Hearst Papers, though, it probably does have some politics. Yeah. Well, this is, I don't know. I love that kind of connection to just, I mean, first of all, this is, as I've spoken about before, I love my grandmother. And after my grandfather passed, she lived with us for a while. And she, yeah, she was this amazing link to us.

The late 19th, early 20th century. And I remembered her telling me it was once a New Year's Day. And she told me she had a very clear memory of New York City because she was staying with relatives in New York City in 1900 on New Year's Day. And she was describing it. She was describing the carriages going by, how cold it was, the snow. She said, I can see it right now.

like perfectly. And I thought, I'm always fascinated by time travel, that concept that you can have a human connection to somebody. I don't know if you had this with, because I know, Sona, you lived with your grandparents. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They both lived into their 90s. Into their 90s. Yeah. And they came from... They came from Istanbul. Yep. And I mean, my grandpa started, he was a butcher when he was 12. Like...

They just put him to work really early. Right. So it's like the idea that you are trusting a 12 year old with slaughtering animals is just feels like a completely different world. But also just the fact that then they come to this country and they're living with you and it's it's.

you're going out to in and out to grab a burger and whatever else you're up to. It's just this amazing clash of cultures. I find that stuff fascinating. Well, my great grandma also lived with us and she was old as shit. She was really old. You don't say old as shit. She was really, really old. And I remember she was this old wrinkly lady and I was really young. I was maybe like 10 and my mom's like, she's going to sleep in your room. And I, that,

From then on, I was terrified of the dark because I thought she was like an old witch lady. And she was just like... Wait, when you say she was... What did you say? Old as shit? Yeah. How old is old as shit? She was... I mean, when I was 10, she was like 95. Because there are young comedians out there that now see me and go, you're old as shit. Yeah.

It's all relative. That's right. I was 10 and she was 60. No, no. Seriously. How old do you think she was? She was 95. Yeah. But she was like an old wrinkly lady. And I was young and I was like, why is this old person in my room? And I got terrified at the dark. You sound like an awful grandchild. I was really bad. I love this. Like old and wrinkled. Why is that in my room? I have.

We did something else. I don't want to. Well, we got it now. This is really bad. So she had a son who passed away that no one told her passed away. And then my uncle, who is still in Istanbul, and we'd hold up two fingers and be like, Medzi, you know, touch one of them. And we would she would touch him and be like, oh, that's, you know, Bejo Day Day, who was my uncle. And she just instantly start crying. And we thought it was.

So funny. Because we kept reminding her of these people she hadn't seen in a long time. And we'd instantly make her cry. And Danny and I were like, let's go make Menzi cry.

Oh my God, you're a monster. You're a sociopath. How is that? We were just fascinated with her instant sadness. I thought you were the true sociopath, but it's you. No, it really was messed up. What a twist. No, no, no. To be fair, I did it to my grandmother, Maudie, too. I used to go, remember that loved one that perished?

It was fun. We used to call it, it was the old fun, we called it the parish game. Hey, let's go play parish. And we'd go into Monty's room. Remember the one you loved who perished? Ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh.

Look at them waterworks. You're an awful, awful person. No, no joke. That was really bad. Yeah, you're a bad person. It was bad. We wouldn't make her laugh just for fun. All right, well, listen, let's have some good come from this. You don't need to clarify no joke. We would make her cry just for fun because we were terrible people. Let's have some good come out of this. If you're listening right now and you're tempted to go mock a very, very old relative by reminding them of someone they lost long ago, think twice. Yeah.

That's a little word from Conan O'Brien needs a friend. Conan O'Brien needs a friend with Conan O'Brien, Sonam of Session and Matt Gourley produced by me, Matt Gourley executive produced by Adam Sachs, Jeff Ross and Nick Leo theme song by the white stripes incidental music by Jimmy Vivino. Take it away, Jimmy.

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