Vince Vaughn
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Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts. Or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Shepard and I'm joined by...

The lovely Monica Lilly Padman. Hi. Hi. We just had some debate. I didn't know whether I should look directly at the camera or not. I know. I guess we can play with it. Yeah, we're going to have to dance around a little bit. Yeah. This guest has been one of the few I have reached out to many times over the years because he was kind of a dreamy, like a Letterman-esque guest. He's a big fish. Figuratively and literally. What a big boy. Yeah.

Yeah. Vince Vaughn. Tall guy. Oh, so tall. Tall guy, cool guy. Sexy man. Wedding crashers, dodgeball. All of it. Was it weird to see me look so teensy?

You held your own. Okay. Yeah. Okay, thank you. Yeah, you did pretty good. Well, Vince is here today, of course, to talk about Bad Monkey, which is out right now on Apple Plus. I just caught up last night. It's very, very good. It's noir-ish. It's hysterical. It's a vibe. It's a vibe. Thank you for saying that. So please enjoy Vince Vaughn.

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Do you have a second place? We're building a place in Nashville on the lake. Yeah, it's smart. Is it?

I think it is. I think it is. Well, you would know, like, you're actually someone I... Thank you so much. If I were... Do I need headphones? You don't have to. What do you guys do? I like it. I like it. I'll follow the proof. Now we're very intimate. It dials you in, and it excludes all the ancillary distractions. It feels more... It's kind of bedroom talk. Yeah, it's bedroom talk. It's intimate. Let's use the word intimate. Pillow talk. Pillow talk.

Okay, wait. So you're someone that I should, and I wonder if you're good or bad at this. I'm terrible at availing myself to people for advice. I should have gotten mentors a bunch of times and they were right in front of me and I thought I would be inconveniencing them. So I never asked anyone for advice. But there's so many folks that are like,

They're ahead of me and they've done the thing that's happening to me. And obviously I should call them and be like, hey, what if this isn't really what I think it is? What are the pitfalls? What's substantive and what's bullshit? You know, does that make any sense? It does. Do you think that's cultural? Because I was similar. I would study people, even if they weren't in our field, like what worked, what didn't work, but I would never...

- Yeah. - You never ask. - I don't know what it says about how we feel about ourselves, but you wouldn't wanna burden somebody. - Right, like I've never called someone who there was a job opportunity and I could call them. But you're right, ego has to be in the mix. It's not like I'm just a saint. - Oh, no, yeah. - Right? I'm not like a great person. - No, you're a great person, but we all have our stuff, it's fair to say. It's a compliment that you would have that consciousness,

But then you have to go through that maze and not deny something that might be good for both people ultimately. Well, as you've gotten older, have you mentored anyone? Like I've actually had some dudes who kind of reached out to me and I enjoy it so much. I'm getting way more out of it than I'm sure the wisdom I'm passing on that they're getting. And only in having that experience, I was like, oh, actually, those people would have enjoyed helping me. I thought it would be a big inconvenience.

Slash, I was always trying to pretend like I knew what I was doing. Do you have that at all? Like, I was trying to act like I'd been there a lot in life. Yeah, some of that's okay. You want to be competent when you're doing something. You don't want to be a burden again. And there's a balance. And it depends on the environment of our age. If you asked a question, you would be singled out and humiliated for doing so. Right, right, right. Don't you think? Yes, yes. It wasn't like, hey, there's no bad questions here.

Go ahead and ask the question twice. That would stop the day you would be isolated. And so we weren't really in an environment that encouraged questions. Like it would always be, let me get through this. And if you still have something, tilt it in a way of like only an idiot would still have something. Yes, right, right, right. Then come to me.

The answer's in this denial of answering the question. I don't know how much time you spent in Detroit, but certainly I've been in Chicago a lot. Very similar. Grew up, I used to go all the time. I had cousins in Kalamazoo. Oh, you did? K-Zoo. K-Zoo, yeah. Home of Dan Severin. Close. Coldwater. Remember that? Dan Severin I know from the UFC, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And he was a gold medal wrestler. Always Midwestern quiet. And then all of a sudden, they're Matt Hughes from Illinois. And then super problematic in the rain, right? I think there is something cultural because of our age.

and the lack of accessibility to the industry that for us, there was something very magical and very far away about anything entertainment related. There was something about where we grew up, the good and the bad, which was who could even possibly think that you could be a part of that? I'm sure when you left town, it wasn't like everyone was excited and happy and thinking you had this in the back. No, it was so arrogant. But they were also sort of like...

trying to say why you wouldn't do well, and there's no way you'd make it because that was easier than realizing that maybe they could try to do something they were interested in. It was easier to say, like, Dax is crazy. And they were right for a long period of time, just to give them credit. You know, I had a long stretch out here, eight years before I got employed. They were ultimately wrong, though, that your pursuit of that would somehow have anything to do with their life choices. And so that's interesting because you were willing to...

make a move and commit to something that's not an easy layup, but then you wouldn't allow yourself...

to get any help. No, of course not. Isn't that interesting? It sure is. So you take the big risk, throw everything to the wind, but then you want to do it in a way that's isolated. That's interesting. Have you reflected on that? Oh, tons. And what do you think that was? Well, again, I think it's this combination of I don't want to seem opportunistic. For some reason, people who are opportunistic, I don't know, my family, whatever, it's not a good look. It stinks. Neediness, not a great

Look, desperation, ugh. - You could be taking advantage of it. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - That's icky. - And I did have some commitment to like loyalty of friendships. I didn't wanna ever abuse friendships. I didn't take that as something sacred, friendships. But ego, right? I can't admit I'm ill-prepared. I can't admit I'm terrified and I don't really know how to do any of this.

But I got to act like I got it all figured out because it would be too humiliating for me to be openly vulnerable and scared and worried and all these things. You equate it to weakness. Weakness. And so now we're getting under the very core thing for me.

And a lot of projection going to come your way. But I've been doing this for years with you. Sure. Vulnerability would be so dangerous. Weakness would be so dangerous. It would be identified very quickly and you would be fighting every single day in my school. It's not an option. So I think incompetence or not knowing something is in a weird way a situation.

A sign of a weakness that I could be then exploited or harmed or hurt. And I don't know why, but from the first time I saw you and stuff and as I followed you, I mean, you're going to get real uncomfortable. Really uncomfortable. For me, it's Letterman, Bill Murray. That's it. The Mount Rushmore for me as a kid. Next wave for me is you.

You're it. You're my new Bill Murray. So I was so interested in you and followed the whole thing. And I think I made up a lot of stories about you in my mind. But then I come to know you a little bit and I think I'm not too far off track on some shit. So did you have a fear of appearing weak or potentially vulnerable? Did you feel like you were in a sitch where that could be problematic?

or more similar in some ways, maybe than you recognize. And I don't know in exploring this that all of those ways of approaching this stuff is wrong. It's almost like a boy named Sue. Like I think ultimately I was better served by having a very similar value system to you. If I spent my day trying to become undeniable at the craft level,

that I'm doing. In our case, it was acting, but it could be any craft. I could be cooking or making cabinets. Ultimately, when you weigh it all out, there's a big push now, especially for younger people about networking. But I always thought networking isn't getting better at what I'm doing. There was an acting coach that said to me when I was younger to the class, not to me specific, he says, a lot of people come out here wanting to contribute.

creatively, whether that's music or acting or writing. There's a calling inside of us for whatever that journey is to create. But they end up meeting people and they become these cool bar hanger-on.

And then that somehow satisfies their need because they've become friends with people that are participating and creating. And they kind of energetically slip into that. So I'm going to the right parties or the right hangouts, but you're not doing it. And in a way it was dangerous because...

you were giving yourself some ability to feel like I'm a part of this when you really weren't. And so I was like, I don't need to meet those people unless I'm working with them. I would avoid putting myself and making it like we're all great. And I think people could misread me sometimes. It wasn't feeling better than...

Did people think you were aloof? Maybe I was aloof or that I wasn't interested. And they're right. I was more interested in my best efforts at what I was doing. I recognized that doing my best was success because I couldn't control anything.

getting the part or what happened, but I knew that if I did what I could do, I could feel good about that. I had to learn that. And I realized that even if something went well, if I didn't take the right approach, it bothered me. As we look at this, maybe we were right on some level in that I should inspire to be competent and

I need not to be vulnerable in a way where I can be taken advantage of or exploited. And I think with that journey, and I only know from our time talking, I think younger stuff from childhood experiences we were in might be somewhat similar. And so I think the quest to get competent is important. Yeah. Yeah.

Was I more comfortable in conflict or someone being unkind to me? Sickly, yes. Yes. I knew what that was. If someone was warm and believed in me, that's when I was uncomfortable. So that's not good. But the ability to say, I'm going to be value-added, I'm not going to be a burden, and maybe some of those struggles led us to look what you're doing with this show and writing and look at the directing that you've done and performances. I don't know that someone...

that didn't have those high standards on themselves is going to do those things. It's a bit of a paradox because you're right. I like where I landed. So how could I be critical of the roadmap that got me here? So in many ways, a thousand percent. But also, I think I suffered in some areas where I didn't really need to. And I also think...

I learned some lessons the hard way that I probably could have availed myself to a little guidance and I probably could have made the ride easier for me. Again, I don't even know that I want the easier ride. But the most fascinating thing I think you said in that was when someone was warm and believed in you, you didn't really know what to do with that. When someone was confrontational, you know exactly what to do with that. That I relate to deeply. Didn't you ever have that feeling like you go over to a friend's house and their parents were cutting off the crust?

of their sandwich and were real encouraging to them. And you were like, what's going on? Yeah, these aliens. Where the fuck am I? Like, oh, really? This is an option? Oh, and they're telling them they're great? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, oh God, this is weird. Uh-huh. But you know, as a way, I think in feeling this way a little bit as an outsider or not the first picked-

then you have to find your own self-love and belief and provide it for yourself, which is more sustainable. And I'm curious if you fell into this. You know, I love my parents and I have a good thing with my parents. Just a product of the time, two parents working their own lives. Hard workers who came from nothing. They both came from single homes and they were just not going to accept a reality where they weren't able to improve the quality of life for their kids. And it's you and your sister, right? Two sisters. Two sisters. Okay.

But I think life is hard. Things are going to be hard until they're not. Learning to give a speech, there's no easy ride for it. You can have the grooviest teacher who tries to give you the right meaning for what it means to get on stage, but you're still going to have to figure out how to deal with that

feeling, someone isn't going to like your speech. Like you're not going to skip those things. So the question then to me becomes, what's the best version of facing those fears and addressing those and getting those skills? And there's more than one way to the waterfall.

But usually someone has to really go through the stuff that's not fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And face the pain and the rejection and move forward. But that's why when you say competence, it's kind of taking control. It's like you cannot like me, but you can't take away that.

That belongs to me, how good I am. Yeah, and I also think it's feeling competent with how you treat yourself and others. The foundation of any quality relationship is there has to be a level of politeness and consideration there.

and all the interaction has to be voluntary. You can control a situation, but you lose or be controlled and everyone loses. As you get older, and you strike me as having this too, and I don't know where I got it from. Maybe I felt in some ways, like all kids did, hurting in places or alone.

But I was super kind and super put a wing over someone who couldn't handle themselves to a fault. And even with friends in town, let them stay with me, go out of my way. And as I investigated it younger, I was like, in my mind, I wish there was someone to do that for me. No one ever did it for me. Yeah.

So I was like, I'm being the person that I thought that I needed. But then I realized they're not as motivated. It means something to them, but not like me. They're not as psychotically focused on changing their lives. And then you realize there's an ego in that. I'm not that powerful. As much as I'd want it for someone, I really am limited.

versus maybe saying a word of advice, there's not a 20th way I can say it to get them to connect to it. Fair? Incredible. And in fact, you just saved us. I was going to lay about 32 breadcrumbs to get to the point you just hit, which is when I look at who you're friends with, weirdly, when we've had overlap, they're the same friends. Yeah, it's true. We love Panay.

Love. One of a kind. Oh, I love him so much. He'll dazzle. Our little Greek prince. And funny. Yes, I love him. So he produced Wedding Crashers, and then I did a few movies with him. We love Dan Liebenthal, don't we? Yes. We want to take care of Dan, right? He's great. He's genuine and loving. Yes.

And so when I look at the people that you're drawn to and I'm drawn to, there's a very interesting pattern. And I think all these guys, D'Onofrio, we both love, right? They're shining so much love at me that I trust them. And I have a very hard time trusting people. But the amount of laser focus love that these people send...

I can trust. One of the nicest nights of my life was a guy tried to fight Andrew in Connecticut and I was not on my watch, my friend. Right. Someone would have to have a real problem to want to engage Panay. I know. You can imagine when he said he came up with a classic. He walked up to Panay and said, do they sell men's clothes where you bought them? Dixie cup line. Not even original. No. We're dealing with an obtuse bowling. Okay.

Get in line. My breadcrumbs were going to be like, when you were a kid, did you love my bodyguard? Love. Love, right? Love. And I loved it for him. I loved it for him and the boy. I loved it for the giant. Yeah, but for the giant, I loved it more. Such a symbiotic relationship. Totally. And I want to be both people in that story. Yeah, we are, aren't we?

Don't you think? I do. Yeah. My bodyguard's generally been women in my life. They're that role. So I have a story about us and I can't imagine it's the same as yours. But as I am owning such a fan, I watched Wedding Crashers in Santa Monica AMC 7 on

the promenade. And I remember loving what was happening. And about midway through, I literally thought, I'm not going to try to do this anymore. This guy is doing every single thing I would ever want to do. And he's doing it perfectly. And it's been done. I don't know what I'm going to do now. It was that level of liking what you're doing that it made me want to quit. So as I got to be around you a bit, I was quite excited, but you're very fucking alpha and I'm very alpha. And this is potentially dangerous. Even though I love you, it's still dangerous. And

And you guys did couples retreat and I was there just hanging for like the whole six weeks. We were friendly to each other. But in my mind, we took a flight during the press tour and you and I were the only people that didn't fall asleep. We were flying to like Australia. I remember it. And we're chatting, chatting, chatting. That's fine. We're both awake. And then at some point I talk about being in the learning disabled room. And I feel like I saw a whole new version of you come online and

And you and I just really got into what it was like to get called out of the classroom and go down to that room. My favorite movie, as I saw as a kid, because I thought that was me, was One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Oh, sure, sure, sure. Did you love that movie? Yeah, loved. I was funny. I got along with people. Kids really followed me. I wasn't going in the most popular crowd, although I got along really well with them too, but I'm going to play Dungeons and Dragons. I'm going to wrestle. And I got along with people.

But when I went to that class, I had a, well, they labeled this stuff. It's a longer conversation. I'm not in agreeance with the journey that the government and everyone's taken with how we handle it. Because I think everyone just learns differently and no one's going to line up right next to each other. You could probably label and distinct how we learn so differently. I had an interesting journey later in life with that.

But as it pertained to my childhood experience, when you're younger, they want to have you tested. So you go to a psychiatrist when you're five. And I remember thinking they're going to take me from my family. That's what I think is at stake. I'm like, oh, I get it. If I get these questions wrong, you're going to juvie. I don't know where I'm going, but maybe I was in

first grade, so I was six at the oldest. But I remember thinking like, this is really some high stakes 'cause if I don't know the answers or I mess this up, I'm going away, like I'm leaving my parents behind. And my parents never explained it. They said, "Yeah, everything's fine. "The school wants to run some tests "for how you act in class." I'm like, all right. So I remember, maybe this pertains to what we're talking about.

So I'm a fucking six year old answering questions as if it was the law, as if I wrote the book on it. Where does paper come from? And my point of view would be, well, we all know trees. The trees is where paper comes from and that's what they do with that. So I wasn't just answering it. I was answering it like I was fooling them that that was the right answer. And they go, is that it? Then says the trees. I go in the machines, then they do the machines.

And the guy had polio who was interviewing me. His hand was like this. Well, when I was four, I put my hand in an electric can opener. I was watching my mom. I put my finger in. I pull it down, and it's just blood everywhere. And so I have a split in my nail on my right hand that I still have, which is just dead skin. It didn't grow back, right? Hold on a second. Are you guys doing a matchy?

Do you see how that's splitting right there? Yeah. That varies in how split it goes down. See, mine's a beautiful, like, dead split. Yeah, yours is hardcore. Yeah, mine's hardcore, right? So when you're young, kids will go, oh, now that's going to be a problem with me because that's not happening to me, right? So anyway, that was a gift for me as my life went on at the time. I hated it, but it really gave me a lot of empathy for that feeling of being attacked or persecuted for having something different that's not a choice. Yeah.

So I remember connecting with this guy where I'm staring at his hand and I go to him, don't feel bad about your hand. I have this too. And I reached out and I showed him my finger and he looked at me. And you were sick?

I was like six because they were driving me from the suburbs, Buffalo Grove, to the city to see this guy. And at the time, they were just saying, like, is he hyperactive? I guess I was borderline hyperactive for whatever that meant for a six-year-old in class who was fucking living on sugar. Pop-tarts. Pop-tarts, Frosted Franks for breakfast. I guess I had a hard time resisting a joke and sitting still. But anyway...

Were you also way too big? No, I was kind of tall younger, and then I evened out, and then I got bigger. But I just remember at that point, that was what launched it, where at first they said maybe he would be good to take a Ritalin. My parents, thankfully, I think I did one, and I didn't react well. But my dad, and I think my mom said it too, they're like, my kid's not going through life doped up, which is a great thing because you have to learn how to process stuff. And so the answer became I would go to...

A class, but not like these other kids. I didn't live in the class. I was in general pop. Right, right, right, right. Regular school. Yeah. But I would get one period a week to go. I had a speech therapist and then I'd have to go to this class. So when I go to this class, I figured it out. It was really good for me because as I got older, then I would be like in fourth grade and there's a bunch of kids playing Candyland.

I'm like, what the fuck is everyone playing Candyland for? Like, that's a game you play at five. Game's a joke. And I first was kind of harsh on these kids because I was distancing myself. I'm like, I'm not one of these fucking kids. But there was a girl that was super tall. She didn't talk. But it reminded me of, like, Chief.

Yes. And cuckoo's nest. I figured out as a kid, I was like, well, no wonder she's not talking. She stands out so much. Yes. She's so tall. She's got bad posture that she just didn't want to stick out anymore. There was nothing wrong with her. She just wasn't comfortable.

And then there was the kid who was more rural than all of us, but his family was like agriculture. So he had flannels and work boots and shit. So I started to figure out a lot of these kids could have been emotional or just social cues weren't there, but they were great kids. If you had a friendship with those kids, like it meant something. So I became super protective and I started including them like in recess games. And I was so confident.

And so, okay, getting in a fight or verbally getting in stuff. I was like, no, fucking Megan's playing kickball. She's on my team. Here we go. And so I started to have that. So it was a gift because I knew that feeling. The difference was if you have some level of confidence or self-belief, despite the obvious information, you really can go super far in.

and really accomplish a lot because you have to be really resilient and work really hard. But the poor kids that don't have support from a parent or don't have any belief can get absolutely devastated. Oh, ruined. I would imagine through different interviews and even the notion that you had loved the Stephen King book you loved as a kid. Rage. Yeah, I saw kids get literally destroyed. There's no going past what happened to them in junior high and high school.

through bullying and the horror that can be. I just saw kids get fucking ground up and destroyed and had so much sympathy for them. It broke my heart. It was all around. We also had someone who

spoke faith over us, where some of these kids, like they'll go to the parents and say, well, I think we all know Larry has a hard time focusing. If they're wearing a name tag that says expert and you're dealing with parents, especially back then where there's not a lot of information. Yeah, and they're scared. Then they're going to go along with these recommendations. I still see it today where there's parents who go along with recommendations that are terrible recommendations.

just because they're the popular idea of the time. And that kid then is sort of believed to have not skills, but it's always that way. That could be athletics. That could be music. Usually what you find is the person that has some sort of obstacle that's going to, for whatever reason, be resilient and come up with a psychotic program is the one that kind of can break through and have better mastery and self-awareness

Because you have to earn that, I think, by overcoming that. Sometimes when it's real easy, they're not forced to do that. And so when that finally happens in life, they don't necessarily have those resources because they just haven't been in that position.

That's a tremendous amount of empathy for a six-year-old. Most kids looked around and they were like, yikes, that's bad, but I have to protect myself. At that age, we're all just trying to survive elementary school and middle school, trying to get through it. And so to bring people in is very rare. I was raised with that. My mom would be like, hey, someone's new in school. It would be pretty neat if

If you brought him to the lunch table. It was just in the water in my house that way. I just was part of who I was. But I also think you hit it on the head earlier, which is you were giving people what you wanted. Was there an inciting incident other than that experience, which is profound? I kind of belong there. I couldn't read. I didn't learn to read at all.

Fifth grade, right? I have dyslexia. And those hieroglyphics, it's really nuts what that looks like to me. I got over it. It's fine. And I agree. I'm glad I had the whole journey. And then figuring out I was good at some things was like what a gust of wind in the sails. Oh my God, I'm good at math. Oh my God, I'm not fucking stupid. I thought I wasn't stupid.

When I'm talking to dudes on the playground, I'm verbally advanced. Why is it I'm so stupid here? That's a terrible feeling. Yet I'm out on the playground. I'm so confused. Did you feel stupid or you knew you were bright? Well, I felt like as soon as you sat in that desk and they started writing on the chalkboard, I'm like, I'm out to sea and it's compounding daily. And now we're another step down the path. And at some point I threw in the towel.

I'm like, yeah, I'm not going to get this. I just have to act like I'm paying attention. That's similar to how I was answering those questions. Yes. You took on a survival mode. You were acting like you were overly on top of what the teacher wanted. Right, right. Isn't that crazy? And then at the same time, you really needed to say, I'm confused here. Yeah, and then...

Dax, and there was someone holding the slip, and then I'd leave the classroom, and then I'd go to that room with everyone. Did you ever have the experience where you knew there was a progress report coming home? You could hear the moment when a parent received it. You could hear their reaction of how angry they were that there was a progress report. Do you remember the sound of your parents' feet when they came in from work walking, and you knew there was an issue that was about to be addressed? I got blessed in that my mom, luckily for me, thought I was a genius.

She's like, yeah, I don't know what to say about this report card, but I know this kid's a genius. So she didn't sweat me. We were fortunate to have belief in us. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And the kids that didn't started to believe the worst of themselves. Yeah, and they get destroyed. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

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I want to talk about fighting for one second. And I'll start with my career. I had an older brother five years older your age. My whole life was spent wrestling him all day long, all day long. He wrestled me for his amusement. And then all of a sudden I started wrestling with kids my age. And I went from Oh my god, I'm so powerless to like, oh shit, I'm strong. This is great. I loved it whole time through elementary school, maybe even a bully. I hate to say loved wrestling, love getting into it a lot of shit going on at home. I

I felt empowered. I started detecting around fourth or fifth grade. I don't think these kids like me. I think these kids are afraid of me. And I was like, oh, I don't like this. And my best friend at the time, Clay, he was a bad motherfucker. And the two of us would go out and wrestle 10 kids at a time. And I was like, Clay, these kids are just afraid of us. They don't like us. That's a wrap on this for me. Fifth grade, I kind of pledged. I'm done with this. Get to sixth grade, start dating this really popular girl, this eighth grade boy. I'm lying. He's only in seventh grade. I want to be less embarrassed. Seventh grade kid.

Hates me because I'm dating this girl. Takes my bus home with me. Gets off. Tries to fight me at the bus stop. I won't fight him. I'm afraid. I avoid that somehow. He tries to wrestle me, but he can't do that. It gets broken up. You know, it's a sixth grade fight. Then I go to a buddy's house. I'm sitting on the couch at my friend's house. All of a sudden, the door opens up and like six kids walk in. I'm sitting on the couch.

Sean, he gets on top of me and starts punching me in the face and he's punching me in the face for what feels like 30 seconds. I don't know how long it really was, but I had enough time to think in

In my head, why aren't you fighting back? It didn't even hurt. It was like, why are you frozen? Why aren't you fighting back? I thought about that incident every night before bed for fucking years. I don't think anything in my life has been more painful than that event and my disappointment in myself that I didn't fight back. And I made this weird pledge to myself like in eighth grade.

I'll get any broken nose. I'll fight any man alive. I will never again lay in bed knowing I didn't fight back. It's been such a crazy driving force in my life, like embarrassingly so. And I've met a couple other people like me and I've asked them, did you ever sitch? I asked Conor McGregor. I'm like, you had to have gotten your ass beat before you take this position.

journey. And he did. He got beat up by some older kids. And I'm just wondering, did anything like that happen to you? Where does that come from? I'm not going to back down. Versions of that. My dad's culture, my dad's dad was a steel worker and had a hundred acre farm.

And I remember as a kid going to see it was like I unzipped a different universe. It was like in Brewster, Ohio. A lot of Amish families lived near there. So I remember my dad got real mad at me. We were driving a Lincoln Town car. My dad was a toy salesman and we were driving to visit his dad. Perfect salesman car, by the way. Totally. Perfect. Maroon or something. But I was learning about the pilgrims. This was still in Buffalo Grove. So I was still like first grade or second grade. It was real hilly and we were behind a horse and carriage.

and they were all dressed in black. And there was two kids sitting on the back just kind of staring at us. And I was mesmerized. And this has gone on for a while. And I had never been in this kind of environment. And I remember saying, why won't those pilgrims get out of our way? But I really, I thought they were pilgrims. I didn't understand. My dad pulled the car over and

Fucking let into me. You're not fucking better than anybody. Don't you be a spoiled kid like that. So because my dad came from such a harsh background, his dad never went to college, worked on a railroad and then had a small farm, but he had to work in the steel mill or the railroad just to keep the farm going. You know, it was a hundred acres. Wouldn't even have that now. He was real conscious that I was not going to be a kid that as he moved up into suburbs that I was going to be.

elitist. Disrespectful to people or think I was better. And he was also an interesting guy. Did real well, but hard as nails. Kind and funny, but I've seen him many times. I remember thinking sometimes as a kid, like, oh God, this guy has no idea the will that my dad has, right? And was really kind of thought with it. So I kind of had this in me culturally just with the idea of it. So I was always good at

If the lines got crossed to a point where I felt like there was no return, I was going to go all in because I was angry, I was afraid, and it just wasn't going to happen to me. I was on the wrestling team from the time I was in fifth grade. I didn't even like being in wrestling as I got older.

I think sometimes the great athletes don't wrestle because you have options. Like you can play a fun sport and you're having fun with friends. Teen-aids and not cobwebs. We're sitting on a bus. No one's talking. Everyone's miserable. They're just waiting to go fight some kid in front of the school. In a unitard. But I was always just very natural to me. So I did it in high school. And verbally, I was really quick. And then I had to learn the other lesson, both verbally and physically.

which was, was it worth it to hurt someone like that? And I don't like to hurt somebody. I really will avoid it at all costs if I can, because I don't like the outcome. I can see so clearly what you're insecure about. You have no idea how well I see it. And I'm going to do riffs on it and make up catchphrases and humiliate you in a way that will last for the rest of your own friends.

will call you this when this is over. And so when someone would start with me, I would be like, okay. And I didn't have a way to go to like a five. I'd go to a 12. It would be like the entire class is laughing. This is what people become known for. But then I had the moment you had.

when you were wrestling those kids and realized they didn't like it. And so I had that moment where I saw this person in tears, shaking, like traumatized. And they didn't stop, by the way. They were swinging at me verbally and going after it. I felt safe. The room was obroreous. Well, because you walked.

This person was so fucking devastated. That was hard for me. And I go, did it need to go that far? I know they wanted to take a shot at me, but did I have to make this person face their greatest insecurities in a way that's humiliating? And so I have never gotten this right. And I'd be curious of your opinion on this. I let a lot of things go, I think, is the right thing to do. And now to a fault.

I fucking let things go. There's times someone probably should have a consequence that sometimes I'll just go, yeah, it's not worth the investment. But if I go too far, I can't sleep. But sometimes if I don't do anything, that fucking bothers me too.

It does. I'm like, why the fuck didn't I just turn to this person and go, hey, I don't know what the fuck you're thinking, but then I don't feel good if I do that. I very seldom have ever landed in that perfect place of like, here's my boundary. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. I'm staying simple. Either of you, do you regret on either side of that, either going too far or not going far enough? We're both sheriffs.

too we are sheriffs it is hard and there's so many elements in there there's different realizations along the way there's you never teach anyone a lesson never i used to tell myself that i'm gonna teach this guy a lesson at the stoplight he'll never cut someone off again after this interaction not true he's gonna cut someone off in 10 minutes so a i'm not teaching anyone he's just gonna look for weaker people to be meaner to yeah i've probably driven him to some 90 year old lady

And he's going to cut her off and get out of the car and bring her window. Exactly. It's like, all right, I know where I'm at in this ecosystem, but I'm still going to eat. He's going to drop down to the minor leagues and crunch a couple of homers. Yeah, yeah. You eight-year-olds got something on your mind? Yes, and it's true. So there's that realization. And then there's the realization that I'm doing this because I'm scared.

That's the truth. And when I fought, the reason I didn't have a good throttle is like, I really want you to be unconscious because I don't want to get hurt. Or I want you to fully lay down and say, you're a God. I'm not coming at you. I'm not trying to hurt you. Actually. I'm trying to disable your ability to hurt me. There's actually no anger, but in a million fights, it's just, I'm scared they're going to hurt me. And the quicker I can dominate them and not get hurt. That's the goal.

And I'm doing that because I'm afraid. And I had a childhood where people tried to fucking dominate me. And then I recognized the other guy getting out of the truck. Just as sad of a story. That's why he's getting out of the truck. When both people are in pain, if you're not in pain, it can't match. But that's exactly right. If someone's hurting, then you're going to use this to solve the pain that's not really real. And as you realize that, I think you're 100%.

Right. And I don't want to further hurt a guy that's already clearly his dad kicked his ass his whole life. I don't want to fucking add to that. Right. So just ethically, I hate it. Or he's feeling powerless in some situation in his life. And this was the moment that made him snap. That's why I was wrestling kids to the ground. Like I had a violent stepdad at home. So yeah, I needed to dominate something. So yeah, I don't like any of those feelings. But you figure that out. You don't know that it's six, seven, 10, 12. You don't know that it's 35. I mean, it takes forever. Forever.

And then a really profound experience. My father was dying of cancer in 2012 and I was going back nonstop and we were hanging. We had a very challenging relationship. He left when I was three. He was around, but whatever. My father was never bested. Not on the road, not at a gas station. He had a fucking temper. He was as alpha as it gets. And I'm looking at this man laying in bed and he's dying at 62. Oh, wow. That's very young. It's very young. No, mine used a smoker and he was an addict. He died sober, but...

Regardless, I was looking at him and I couldn't help but recognize, yeah, he was never bested. And it kind of killed him. The endless rage, the cortisol dump, the adrenaline, the anger. You lose.

If that's how you go through life, even if you're dominant and you win every one of those little interactions, the toll is heavy. And I just remember thinking, I don't want to lose the big battle. And I think by winning these little ones, I'm going to lose the big battle. Well, that's exactly it. Sometimes when you win, you lose. And when you lose, you win. Yeah.

Yes. That is the spiritual truth of life. It is in true confidence, in true conviction, in true strength is I'm big enough to give this man this victory. That's like the pie in the sky what I aspire to. I'm not great at doing it often, but occasionally there's a guy flipping out in front of the house, right?

And I walk outside and all the workers are gathered and this guy's going crazy and he's yelling at other dudes walking. And so I walk out there and my first thought is I'm going to stop this from happening for all these people, right? I'm going to protect all these people. People are scared. And he's across the street. As I'm crossing, I can hear his routine. He's really freaked out because he got a parking ticket. And as I'm getting closer to him, I don't know why just on that day I chose. I said to him, I said, hey, brother, brother, brother, what's going on? And he goes, what's going on?

The fucking party, they gave out $100. And I go, that sucks. You're the $100 behind? He's like, yeah, I don't know what the fuck. And I go, if I go inside and get you $100 and I make this go away, can we calm down?

He goes, you're going to go inside and give me another. I go, I'll go inside and get you $200. Would you be okay with that? Can you hang here for a second and just don't scream at anyone? I'll go get you $200. We'll make this go away. This didn't even fucking happen. Who cares about this ticket? He waits. I go inside. I get $200 to come out. I give this guy $200. He starts breathing and I got my hand on his shoulder and I'm like, brother, I know this is a pain in the ass, but don't put yourself through this on top of it. You already got fucked. Don't put yourself through this. You got 200 bucks and let's just turn the page. That was good.

And he walked away, and Vince, I was like, oh, my God, I've had the power to do that my whole life, and I didn't. I bet you did it more than you're aware of. You're probably more aware of the times where you... I regret those. Yeah, just being around you, I've never seen you not be...

considerate to somebody. You've never been a blowhard who's pushing their own how cool I am. Well, unless I get scared, right? No. Although you scare me and it was okay. But I've always seen you be including the people. You're easygoing with people. You're both creative and fun, but you also have a background where like sometimes the creative people, they would be intimidated by you just because of your physicality or your interests.

Even with people like that, you've been forgiving and patient with them. I've seen you say that to people actually one time. You said, I'm the guy in high school you would have been friends with. I'm not the guy that was doing this to you. Instead of going like, let me deconstruct this guy's point of view in a way that's aggressive, you were cool about it. I've never seen you not that way. Well, thank you. But I just remember walking away from that experience and I was like, I feel a million times better about that than when I've neutralized the threat.

let's say, right? Right. I got there much earlier realizing people were in pain and to try to not react with it. That didn't take me forever. There were still some times where you would feel like this is not a situation that you can rectify. But you're right. Even most of those, if you come from a place of recognizing that and take your ego out of it, you can avoid those and create a good experience.

Seems like three of us are obsessed with justice in some ways. The most powerful thing I've ever done to the other person where I see them distraught is ignoring or walking away silence

is so much louder. I've seen people just freak out if there's no response. Because you're not playing the game out with them. I won't play with them. I won't be taken into the mud with them. And that makes them crazy. Maybe that's passive aggressive in some ways, but it works to not engage. Yeah, you don't engage because you're not fueling the fire. Pain needs pain to explode. That's right. Exactly.

The really fun gift of all of it, while it's completely all worth it, going to the room and everything is, I can tell within 35 seconds of meeting someone if they have that wound. And it makes me really care about them really quickly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I think you have that in spades. That's kind of like the nice...

upside of the superpower. Yeah. Sometimes you gain empathy from things that are hard or having situations where you're not feeling like you are comfortable or confident. And that's part of life. The one thing we're in charge of is ourselves. And as you get older and go through those journeys, you realize that sometimes you have to be your own best friend. If you get quiet, you know the things to say to yourself instead of draining everybody.

If I have a friend going through a breakup or something, younger, you just would sit with them forever. But then once you figured it out, because everyone goes on tilt or they're hurt, you'd be like, okay, we'll take a couple days here. We're going to look at this thing a million ways. We're going to talk about it. Like, let's cancel stuff. Here we are. But once we're past three days, we're done. There's no more talking about it. And that's what they've learned now with even kids with mental stuff is like the more you sit around and talk about a problem, it's like you're keeping it alive. Yeah.

And it's hard to get past it. Breathing life into it. Learning skills are great. What are the good skills to process things and to deal with stuff that we're hurting with? Some reflecting on it is good, but there's a balance.

Where if it goes too far and you get stuck in it and you're not moving forward, it's bad. Yes, I agree. I have one example where it was after Chips came out, I was very depressed. It was six months of me going like, oh my God, it's two years of my life and it didn't open. And I happened to have a meeting with Kevin Smith about a superhero thing. I just kind of was honest about how much pain this whole thing was. And he said, you know what you have to do is you have to imagine going back and telling 12-year-old Dax...

hey, when you grow up, you directed a movie where you rode motorcycles and did wheelies and shit and chips. Do you think 12-year-old Dax would say, how much did it make? I wouldn't take that advice. I'm not wired like that. I don't like that. I don't like that. What don't you like about it? I don't like anything about it. Nothing I like about that. You hate it? Here's where I come out on that. Okay, tell me. I don't like that. Oh, I don't like anything about that.

I'm stewing in fact. You have to have your own set of standards that's always going to be changing. Even like if I'm looking at architecture or something that you're doing here, I haven't explored it so much. But I have to take in and start for myself or how I'm wired, what do I like or not? I know enough to know I don't like columns. Like if I go in a home and there's tons of columns, that's not for me. I like the feeling of...

openness. So I know that a column for my set of standards, for the things I value, I've investigated enough to know like lots of columns in the decorative of a column is not something I like, but

But that's always evolving. The more I learn, the more I know I'm changing that kind of stuff. And so ultimately with anything that we do, do we want results? No question. But if it's our destination, you could become a liar. It's like what we were talking about. I thought I won, but I lost. I controlled the situation artificially. I outplayed everyone, but I really kind of maybe betrayed myself and I didn't really take what was in it for me. So

You first and foremost, as we go through the journey, sometimes we make the mistakes, all of us as people, where it's like, I'm valuing what people think. And then that doesn't feel good. And if you get too much rewarded for that, you don't know what you think anymore. You're only trying to guess what other people think. It's part of the problem with school. Parents will say to kids, just write what the teacher wants to know. I don't think so.

what do you believe is truthful right now? Even if you might change your mind, even if you're young, I mean, you're 12, you're 14, you're 15, at least be honest and have convictions about what you think. Don't concern yourself with what the teacher has to hear. If we're exploring what works, that should be the goal. And so the same would be in making a project. When you release it to the public...

There's so much that's out of your control. We all want it to succeed. Part of what we do, and I think even with comedy, you want people to laugh. You're wanting people to connect to it. You know, you're not making it in a way where it's like, I don't care what anyone thinks. It's like, I care first and foremost that I like it. And then hope everyone else has my same sensibility. That's exactly right.

I don't think it's okay for me to say, I guess this is more than I thought I could have done younger. To me, my process is more like, let me get quiet. How do I reflect and feel about the work?

How do I feel about the process? How do I feel about the people I work with? And now let's look at the separate thing, which is the marketing, how it got over. Was the timing right in the culture? It is true that there's things that don't quite click in a moment that later become relevant. And it's also true that sometimes things can click in a moment and it just caught the right moment, but it's not as good as other things. So it's so subjective. Yeah, yeah. So for me, the truth of the matter is how do you feel about

about your process. And I know from with you and Dan and Panay, what you guys did. Could be happier. Right. What can I do going forward? Do I get ahead of that earlier? And what's some ideas and empower people to work? Yeah, you're still trying to crack the code. You don't give up. And then also admitting to myself, my interests are emotions, childhood trauma, and horsepower. That's a weird combo. By the way...

Pretty awesome. Thank you. That could be the name of something fantastic. Maybe a new cologne for me. Maybe your book. I don't know. But I have to be honest with myself. It's like I made this movie hit and run. Super proud of it. It did great for what I made it for. But also I have to admit, it's a car chase movie with a huge relationship element going on at the same time. This couple, they're deciding whether or not they're going to really double down and commit. She's learning as a past. What's there to admit?

It was a metaphor for Kristen and I getting together. She had never dated an addict. She didn't date a dude who'd fought guys at the gas station, crack smoking. It was a lot for her to like go, wow, is this dude really going to stay on this course that I just met him on? Big leap of faith. So the movie is really a metaphor for that. So you watch the trailer and it's like, that's a pretty sweet car share. But then there's a very big emotional scene. The guy's like, oh, I don't know about this.

And the girls are like, well, I like that scene between him and her, but I don't know if I can get through all these car chases. I have to recognize that I am doing it to myself to some degree. But isn't that original in a way? Like that's also what gives it staying power and makes it cool. Yeah, yeah. And I'm happy I did it. Some of the realization is just admitting to myself. So my interest in doing both those things is a little tough to package for somebody. That's fair.

Maybe someone else might go, there's not a model. But my goodness, I mean, I think we're at a time now where it's like, if everything has to back into what's easy to pack, is we're all bored, aren't we? Oh, yes. So my point is... And then TV is the only option. Well, that's a great interest and you're better to follow that and then say, how do I...

get that to the audiences, which is getting figured out more and more. I don't think there's anything to admit other than what a cool, unique combination of things that's authentic that people can appreciate. I don't regret any of it. And by the way, it did well. Yeah, it did fine. But you're right. I'm still always going to try to figure out what's the thing. Panay and I were talking after Chip. So we're like, we know at least one of the moments. One of the moments was when we were recruiting and people came, those audiences, and

and they thought the movie was about potato chips. We knew then... It's an issue. Oh, chips. No one really knows chips. I mean, I love the cop stuff, but I was super psyched for a potato chip movie, so the table wasn't set. Where are the ruffles? Where are the Doritos? Where are the chips? You had me at a Halloween party. I thought I was going to a Fourth of July backyard barbecue or something.

So we were like, oh, there was a clue. No one recognized Chips as a TV show. We probably should have changed the title and made it a little more descriptive. Although, for us, Chips was Chips. Chips was Chips. Yeah. Okay, it's time to talk about Bad Monkey. This has been so fun. I had so many things. I want to talk about your firebird you drove for too long. Oh, yes. I want to talk about you being on 21 Jump Street. We're not going to do that. That's right.

No, I don't mind talking about it. I did do a guest spot. I know. That was one of your first things? Was Johnny Depp there? Could not have been nicer to me. I remember overhearing a conversation with the producers and he wanted to wear something. And I remember the producer saying, Johnny, you wore the turban two weeks ago. What?

You can't wear that today. And I was like, oh God, that's awesome. And he was super kind, super warm. It impacted me. And I think in how I've always then had the awareness as a young actor on set to know what it meant to me. But I remember we were doing a quick shot when we were walking out of a church in the scene, a quick thing down these stairs. Johnny said, you should stand up.

over here because the camera's on that side and it'll see you. Now, I'm not a short gentleman. I'm like a giraffe. I'm circus tall. And so, of course, when we go to walk down the stairs, there's a cut and the director comes over and was like, Johnny, I mean, this guy's huge. You've got to get on the other side of this guy. And he said, no, no, no, no, no. Vince is going to walk over here.

And he went out of his way to put me in a position where he knew the camera would see me. It just meant the world to me. And I have always really admired him and liked him. That was such a nice gesture for a young actor to have someone do that. - Yeah. - Yeah. Your Firebird, how long did you drive the Firebird? - This was a long time. - Like way too long, right? It became a thing probably where people were like, "Oh, this guy's still driving." - It was an odd color. I don't remember, was it purple or blue?

I think it's the first car that I bought for myself. I had gotten a Ford Bronco. I always drove this Ford Bronco, which I love. That's a great look for you. Those are my two cars. I had a Ford Bronco and a Firebird. The Bronco's a great look for you. And the Firebird was an exciting time as well. Yeah, a lot of leg room. I just enjoyed having the Firebird. It was a nice time. Great car. You had made plenty of money to upgrade, but you kept driving the Firebird. I didn't understand what would be a better option than a Bronco and a Firebird. I have one question. I would kill myself if I didn't ask it. In my obsession with you,

I had gotten sober at 29 in 2004. So I'd read these interviews with you and they'd be in GQ and shit. You'd be in a bar all the time. And then I know stuff, right? I know people that know you. And you're maybe the only person I know. I'm going to put D'Onofrio too in this category, which is it seems like you were drinking like a fucking pro at one point and that you got your hands around it and now you just drink socially. That is such an enigma to me because I feel like we drank similarly.

And yet you got your arms around it. And I'm fascinated by that. Have I misdiagnosed any of those on either end of that spectrum? Maybe slightly because as a kid, it became cultural that people in high school would just go drink and it was co-ed and hang out and Canadian beers, more potent, let's get that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Molson. Molson Golden, right? And so when I came out here, I wasn't someone who ever needed to drink. I really looked at it as like celebrating or part of having fun. And I really loved acting in the work.

So I was excited for my days. I had stuff that I was interested in, but we probably drank too much on occasion because I just grew up like that's what happened. But for me, it was more like I was always disciplined to the point where I would intentionally say I'm not drinking for two weeks.

two months. I would give myself almost like getting in shape for a movie or having a goal. So I would recognize that this couldn't be part of what I was doing. And it was the same with even video games. I loved video games, but I could put it away and say, I'm getting up in the morning. The first thing I'm doing is playing this Madden game. And that's not constructive. I'm not reading. That's not going to take me to where I'm trying to go. So I got to put this away and earn it back.

I remember playing those games we would play younger, the adventure games on PlayStation, and you'd sacrifice your life. You don't call your friends back. You think you're saving the world. But then the last frame is like a guy holding a trophy. Like it doesn't mean anything. And you're like, what the fuck did I just do? Like it's a guy holding a trophy. But you got so caught up in it because that's my personality. So I was always very good at recognizing this isn't helping me.

And so, yeah, I would go out and drink, but I never drank every day. I never drank in the morning unless we were like on vacation. I just had boundaries with it. It wasn't hard for me. I had other friends. Well, we were all hanging out with and I could realize it wasn't easy for them. And then I would go to them and say, this isn't fun for you. Then they'd say, who the fuck are you to talk? You were fucking drunk the other night. Right. I go, I know, but you're saying stuff to people that you don't feel good about. So there'd be a problem. The one thing for me that was hard, I never smoked going up. I chewed tobacco.

Yeah, me too. I just quit this January. So we all grew up chewing, you know. Yeah. I don't know what it was, but we were kids and this is what we did. But we were so fucking stupid. We knew cigarettes were bad. Right. But for our generation, then they started to have pictures in the school of people without a jaw. But that wasn't at first, right? But it didn't affect our win. So we were playing sports. The cigarettes didn't affect your win, right? Yeah, yeah. So I never smoked a cigarette in my life. Now I go to do a movie and I'm in my early 20s.

And as a young actor, I'm like, okay, I got to get comfortable smoking. I can't look like a guy that doesn't smoke. Right. So I'm fucking doing my moves and I'm smoking all the time. That's the greatest. And I'm buying the fucking cigarette. I'm coughing like fucking crazy. Sure. I fucking hate it. But I'm like, you know, I'm going to be a smoker that character smokes and I get fucking hooked on cigarettes. Yeah. And I don't put them down. That was the one thing for me.

that took me forever to quit. But thankfully, I quit one time. You didn't do the hypnotist, did you? No. It was a simple thing for me because just how my mind works. I realized once I got the information, I always thought it relaxed me. This is crazy. Maybe you can relate to this.

But I was like, okay, it doesn't relax you. It's a stimulant. It speeds your heart up. I was like, this isn't doing what I think I need it to do. I need to stop this. But then you go through this crazy thing for anyone who ever quit smoking, which is not something that's normally like me. But then your mind starts playing tricks like, oh, you're not cool if you don't smoke. Or you go to a movie and you'll see somebody and you're like, oh my

God, are you kidding me? I'm not that? And then once you get aware of it, you're like, definitely have to stop. So I had quit and then I had a cigarette. Thought, oh, I'm okay. I can have another one. And then boom, back on them again. So I don't smoke anymore. But that was the one thing, the nicotine, that was hard for me. But the alcohol for me was social and it never led to a lot of other harsher drugs. It just didn't slip into that. My recon then is correct on you. That was the thing that perplexed me about you. I'm like, this guy doesn't do coke. This guy's built for coke. Yeah.

It would have been bad for everybody if I did. Yes, yes. But no, I just never, I don't know why. And with alcohol, I was just always able to take that hiatus and say, I'm not doing it. You don't have a drink ever. No. Right? It'll be 20 years in September. But I can go have a glass of wine or hang out and I'm fine. And I don't feel a calling towards it. But you still have the occasional night where you go, I had too many. Like that never goes away. That's always a part of it. Holidays, birthdays. It's never a good experience when you wake up and that never feels good. No. We both were telemarketers.

Yes. What was yours? I would call in my father, who was a car salesman and sober. This is so embarrassing. I heard you talk about it on Letterman. I think yours is equally embarrassing. But I was raising money for the Hugs Not Drugs coffee table circular, and you could put an ad in. So ironic.

And I was 16 when I started doing this. I even went so far as the Elks Club was interested. Like I had dinner with my friend in the Elks Club and I lied. I told them I had had this checkered past with drinking and drugs. And had I had this Hugs Not Drugs circular, I probably wouldn't have ended up having to go down that path. And I sold a ton of ads for the Hugs Not Drugs thing. And I don't know that it ever came out. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

You were all in. I was. I was trying to make my dad proud. You know, sales is cold calling companies. It was the game. Yeah. Can I get them to buy from me? Yes. You know, mine was the Lake County Sheriff's Police Rodeo, but we were in a nondescript building in Waukegan, Illinois.

I don't think there was a rodeo as I got older and reflected on it. And we offered, it was $20 for a family package of four. Oh, I'm sorry. Are you and your family not interested in going to the rodeo? That's fine. Because for $5 you can, and this was the word we used, you can send an orphan to the rodeo.

No. Oh, yeah. For $5, you can sponsor an orphan, and the orphan will get to go to the rodeo. And then I would fucking hard sell people. And sometimes you get seniors who are like, I'm a senior.

I'm on a fixed income. And I'd be like, I understand that, but it would be great for this orphan. You know who's on no income? This orphan. Oh, my God. Orphan? What the fuck is this? It's like Daddy Warbucks or something? I don't know, but I was, like, trying to win at the board. I get the most orphan sales. It was all about, like, winning. And I was 16, too. I had a license. I wanted a job. I was pushing rodeo tickets. Ha!

And the fact that it was police, so that makes it feel authentic. Oh, yeah. And then it's an orphan. Oh, you don't care enough to help a child? That's the genius piece. This motherfucker probably picked up shop and fucking left. Oh, yeah. He was in the back room drinking fucking soup, this guy. Wow.

He was a complicated gentleman. Did you watch the telemarketing doc on Max? No. You must. It came out like a year ago. It's incredible. It's all about the police funds. You know, the whole thing's a fucking racket and it's a huge business. Yeah. Okay. Let's talk about Bad Monkey. I've watched it. I love it. Even before I watched it, I had emailed you because I was so excited because I think the trailer was so fucking brilliant. It's you and Bill Lawrence, who we also love, who we're going to have on. So we're doing a whole Bad Monkey week.

You want me to set it up or you want to set it up? Carl Hyasson is a great author. It's a book he wrote about a detective in the Keys. It's kind of in the myth. It's like the trickster who can't help but pursue what is the power behind the throne, even though it feels like it's elusive and you're not going to get to it. You can't help but pursue.

pursue it and believe that maybe you can figure this thing out. The stakes are real and the consequences, but it's comedic. The characters are odd, their personalities, and it's got comedy in it in a way that's totally really well done, which is hard to do where you're not betraying. The world is real, and then the characters get to be kind of

crazy and colorful. And I hope this isn't an insult to the author, but it's very Elmore Leonard to me. Yeah, I think they're friends. Oh, are they friends? Yeah, it's got that vibe of like you're in a paradise, but there's a seedy underbelly to the paradise. When you were growing up, I know for us, Florida was the destination. I had two grandmothers.

One lived in Cocoa Beach. Oh, perfect. And one lived in Hollywood, Florida, on a mini station wagon drive where we would land grounded because we were fighting in the backseat. Had you ever been to the Keys prior to this? No, not prior to this. It's wild, right? Very unique and very cool. I just drove down there a year and a half ago. Are you a fisherman? I'm not a fisherman. Feels like a failing of mine that I'm not. Are you? No, I fucking... Feels like a manly thing you're supposed to do. One time I teased Billingsley. We went to a friend's for a bachelor party, and we went to Florida. Yeah.

He fucking had the bright idea, Peter Billings, who you know, that we would get up and charter some fucking boat at 6 a.m. He's a fisherman, though, right? He's a fisherman. He lives in the Keys. He does the spearfishing. So everyone was up drinking, but we're up at 6 in the morning. And it's like, you go on a boat. Ugh.

And then there's a bunch of professional fishermen who are actually like setting the hooks. They're fishing. Not us are fucking fishing. We're sitting there. And then if there's a fish on the hook, there's a mad rush of energy. Someone got to go and grab it. Right? Phones come out. And the big moment is, you know, can Bob get the fish up with the help of a bunch of professionals? The Sherpas. And he was like, this is amazing. I'm like, what the fuck? I go, why don't we get up tomorrow and do a bunch of fucking house painters? Like they're fucking painting a house.

And then fucking hand me the roller on the last thing and take a photo. We'll sit around while they're working like, what the fuck are we doing? We're seasick on this fucking boat. None of us are fishing. We're just waiting for some guy to get a thing. Oh, my God. It's so crazy. If you actually go out and enjoy fishing, that sounds lovely. My childhood best friend is still my best friend. He loves fishing, and I just can't. But he's going out on his own and fishing. He's not sitting on a boat watching professional fishermen and grabbing a rock.

No, no, no. And then popping in for a photo op. Right. He's earning his meal that night. That I like. Yeah. But the Keys are fucking awesome. I was just down there like a year and a half ago. I went with a friend to Key West. It is such a strange, cool world. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

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I got to add this about you because I've been in public with you. Walking through LAX, you and I got in a debate and we're walking through the airport and it kind of struck me, your experience, which is you're so enormous. I don't think people really fucking understand how enormous you are. You're no petunia. You're a large and strapping, strong gentleman. But when people see you,

They don't go, I think that's Vince Vaughn. They go, oh, there's Vince Vaughn. He's 10 feet taller than everybody. Look at him over there. And they can see you. It's like you're Shaquille O'Neal. They're in another terminal and they can see you and I arguing about fucking healthcare or whatever the fuck we were debating. In that experience, I was dialed into the debate because I like to debate. But then I was also kind of above myself watching us walk through this airport and thinking,

Everyone who has walked through this terminal, they know Vince Vaughn was debating some guy about something. So I don't even know if you can sit on the sidewalk and do some people watching. That's my favorite thing to do. I can sometimes blend in. It just depends. You know how it is. You need a loge chair. Sometimes no one's paying attention and you can kind of get away with it, right? And then sometimes people catch on. You know, I think there's something with comedy, too, where people just assume they know us. Like, I'm out with friends who are always doing dramatic stuff and people are like, there they are.

And they won't go up to him. They're like, oh my gosh. They'll see Vincent. Trying to out-joke us or slap on the back. I get it. Don't you find it interesting as you get older having done comedies that now you're of the age where people share with you someone in their life was in a lot of pain. That's the connection that's so moving and different now where people are like, oh my...

mom was dying. Yeah. We watched this movie a lot. It rips your heart out. You're like, oh my goodness. You were in the last phase and Chris and I were talking about this not too long ago, but like, what is the juice of acting anymore? It's like when I moved here, I knew every line from stripes. I knew every line from Fletch. They were my vernaculars.

The lexicon of my generation was formed by these comedians. We were repeating all the lines nonstop. You had that. I was watching you do Hot Ones. Your eyes betrayed you, by the way. The face was like stone cold. It wasn't affecting you, but the eyes were dripping. I was enjoying the heat and I was experiencing the heat, but I wasn't going to let...

the emotion get the best of me. You couldn't have been vulnerable and been attacked by one of the cameramen. Very Midwestern. Yes, yes. But the eyes... But it wasn't until the last one. The eyes were glassy. The last one when I poured it all on there, I was like, oh, this is interesting. I could feel it was happening, but I was still able to weather it. Again, I know I'm projecting, but I did the same thing when I was on. I'm like, I'm going to do an 11th wing. Has anyone ever done an 11th wing? Same playbook. But your eyes were... Oh, yeah. But I was still going to persevere.

Anyways, he was going through catchphrases. He was kind of testing you on which of these phrases are from what movie. And I was thinking, you've got 15, 20 that any dude, you know, it was the last time that that kind of happened. I don't know how you feel about it, but I bet some part of you misses that that was such a viable, thriving domain of show business. And another part of you must feel like,

wow, I'm so glad I got in when I got in and I might have had the last hurrah. Let me just say this. You did comedies. Wedding Crash was $209 million. You did comedies that millions and millions of people saw. And now there's no comedies in the theater. Right. So I wonder, are you more focused on lamenting the fact that that has gone away? Or do you have a deep gratitude that

you rode that last big wave. No, and I think I said this publicly, get some young people and leave them alone. People have stories to tell. It's happening. In stand-up. Yeah, it's happening in stand-up or things on the internet or look what podcasting did. I mean, it's the same thing. It's a glaring revelation.

that audiences want authentic conversations that are exploring things in a way that we all go through. What you do in your podcast and what you've done in Hit and Run and the movies, when you're saying, well, I don't know how I have to admit, it's like, well, yeah, cars are awesome and this conflict is awesome, but exploring those relationships and the complexity of people is awesome too. We're talking about our split fingers and...

You know what I mean? How do we feel about this or whatever? And sometimes just funny. It's not like we're being so important to try to do something profound. We're just connecting. Yeah, we're connecting and we're growing and we're interacting and learning and sharing with each other. Beautiful. The numbers are in. There's no debate here. People like it if they feel like someone has...

something to say or a point of view. We're all exploring, whether it's through song or conversations or movies, the human condition and people. And that's fascinating and something that we're all on. So I feel like it's happening now. You see people breaking through. It's been happening for a while. And what you would love to see is...

in the medium of film, people to feel like there was the opportunity to tell stories and have a chance for those to make sense economically so that they can tell those stories. And I think it'll come back. I think the pendulum swings too far. The people are dying, aren't they? I mean, you can feel it. Yeah, yeah. The upswell in stand-up. I mean, the fact that we have a dozen arena performers right now, I've not seen that in my whole life of watching stand-up.

People still want that interaction. It's fun to explore human conditions in extreme ways. We're not suggesting it's a health video. You know what I mean? This is a playbook to live your life. But you go back to the beginning of campfire stories. The purpose of the wisdom of the stories or the myth were these cautionary tales. And so that we could kind of learn from extremes. The Bible's not a story of people making the right decisions. Right.

We're learning and we're dealing with death and consequences. And this is how these things play out. It wasn't to say everyone here's really kind and enlightened. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I just feel like people are the same now as they were from the beginning of time. I agree with that. I do want to call out one person from Bad Monkey, Meredith. I think your scenes with her are just fucking dynamite. I'm wondering, because you've been at it for 30 years, accessing fuel for the motor is

Do you feel like there are things that are just race fuel? Because I'm watching the scene with you guys in the car in front of the supermarket. And I think she's bringing something to you that Vince is like, oh, right. It's time to fucking party. Right. We got to go. We're meeting in a bar. Like, OK, this person's on fire and I've got to match him with some fire. Bill's so good at creating these dynamics. So the scene is charged, but she's fun. Meredith Hagner? Yeah.

don't know her. You do. Search Party. She was like the hot friend. She was so funny. Wyatt's wife. Oh, is this Wyatt? Yeah, Wyatt's wife. Wyatt's wife. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She's phenomenal. Oh, she's unreal. Whenever we had a chance to connect, she definitely was bringing fun points of view. And there was other actors that were phenomenal in that, but you're right. Everyone's solid. She definitely, you know this, improv is listening. Yes. And so she's throwing you so many curve balls and she's making so many unique, interesting choices that

real you is paying attention and intrigued in what she's sending. Even the part where she's whispering, you go, yeah, why are we whispering? Whether that was written or not. You gotta stay dialed the fuck in and it's just bringing out so much radical stuff. Aren't you the same? I'm really committed to that point of view and that character in that moment, knowing what my objective is. So I'll go with whatever, knowing where I'm trying to go. Yes. So that's what it is. You're really listening and doing it. She's playing it like she doesn't want to come off as snooty over how expensive the earrings are, right? Yes, it's her tent.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you guys are magic together. She's great. I wanted to ask if you think you've played yet the full version of yourself. That's witty, sarcastic, confident, playful, but then also tender and vulnerable. Have you played who Kai lives with?

This is the thing I really enjoy about being an actor. I feel like we all have thousands of sides to us. I've been referencing him a lot lately, but one of the things I love with The Breakfast Club... Yeah, you love John Hughes. ...is that you have these archetypes, because that's what the kids feel safe presenting. Going back to our childhood, it's like, I'm the jock, that's who I am. But there's no doubt the jock has an academic side. There's no doubt that he has a...

criminal side. So the fun of that movie was always you're going to see the archetype, what kids present themselves at in school. The nerd, the jock, the burnout. To realize they're all just people. There's more crossover than they realize. They're all in pain and doing their thing. It's hard for everyone. Why we love

that and why John is different than a lot of the guys that came after that made high school movies and a lot of them would come out in the press and say, oh, we were just doing like John. This is what made John spectacular among many things was in his movies, it wasn't that the nerds win and the jocks lose. Everybody wins. And no one else really did that where he saw life from all sides where in his movies at the end,

You kind of felt like when the lights went on, more comfortable, closer, safer with people that might have felt from a different click. Because he was saying as human beings, we're all trapped in this thing that we're playing and we're all more connected and there's more of a similar experience than what we're presenting or what we're allowed to be.

And so connecting to what me and you were talking about earlier and us going on an evolution of going, that person's in pain. I'm afraid, he's afraid. Let me come from a better version of myself with more wisdom and create a great moment. The great thing of being an actor is you get to bring different sides of those to the forefront in a way that you're allowed to lean into it. To indulge those, yeah. Where maybe in your own life, sometimes those are... Not a good idea. Right. So I became aware of those, that I'm both super confident...

and absolutely petrified. And whatever that alchemy that makes up how we navigate those things is still interesting to me, why people do what they do. The heartbreaking thing, like someone handles something in a way to have pride or they're being considerate to someone else, and then really it rips their heart out. It's really not the experience they wanted to have in that exchange. And it just fascinates me, just the journey for all of us. Yeah. Very last question, I promise.

I have been numerous times very grateful that I got two girls.

Because I do not want to have the conversation with my son, which is like, you're going to have to go fucking blast him in the nose. I don't know what else to tell you. You got to walk up without any warning, punch first and let it rip. I don't want to have to pass that on. I don't know what I would do with that if I had a boy. I'm not sure how the fuck I would handle that. Have you been in that situation yet? Yeah, I have both. You would be a great father to either boy or girl. And the more you have, like as much as you love your first child, your heart gets bigger.

once the next one's in your life like oh I love you too yeah yeah both my kids are great my daughter's great but Vern is super unique and he's both funny and creative this is his fourth year of tackle football he's in jujitsu okay okay okay so he's on the path you know but he's also been in plays oh yeah yeah so I kind of just throw in front of them what their own journey is but was important for me to expose him to physical conflicts and getting comfortable with

that so that it wasn't something that felt foreign to him, that there's a difference between you really hurt and that hurts a little bit and learning those lessons. I have to police myself sometimes. It's like I'm trying to pass on skills to them for a life they don't actually have. I'm passing on the skills for the life I had.

I think it's good, too. You do? Yeah. I love it. It's like a Kevin Smith thing. No, but I think it's both. No, but I do. Yeah, yeah. Or maybe some compromise. No. No. Okay. Can I say what I mean by no? Yeah. And tell me what you think? Yeah, yeah. You want to have the skills if you need them. Absolutely. Because I actually think it helps you avoid it. You never want to have a moment where...

where you're hurting or going too far ever if you can avoid it. And most times you can. But if you're competent and you have the skills, I think you kind of avoid a lot of those things. And I don't mean just physical conflicts, but I sat with my daughter at a very young age and said, there's some people out there that are going to not be kind and that are going to take advantage of someone who they think is weak. So when you walk around, I say, if you walk by someone

don't mad dog them and look at them aggressively, but don't look at them afraid. You just look at them and say in your mind, I see you. I'm paying attention. I know exactly what's happening. And then look away because you're looking for someone to take advantage of. So I think it's both. You have to be aware that sometimes in life there could be conflicts or problems. They're not going to meet only nice people. But aren't you saying the same thing, which is be ethical. Don't do that to someone else. If you're

pushing someone into something or intimidating him, that's a terrible exchange. You're not winning in that. You didn't get anything in that. Like, I don't want my kids to be competing for whatever the social status is of the school and trampling on kids because they think this is important in the moment. I want them to have real exchanges. The one advice I give to my daughter...

which is about friendships, but it's also about life and everything, is a real friend is loyal. You can trust him. But a real friend lets you be who you are. And I think because we had different interests with sports and plays and different things, if there was ever someone who would go, why do you like that? I didn't want to be around him. Yeah, yeah, right, right. But if someone goes, I like that about Dax, that he loves cars. That's cool that you find that much interest in it. And that's cool that you're enjoying that. Well, that's a real friend because they're not qualifying you for something. Aren't you having these conversations with your daughter? Oh, yeah, I live for her.

I love it. And my daughter's in jujitsu. She is? Yeah. But don't you ever tell them, like, you have to set a boundary and don't let someone take advantage of you? And then at the same time, you don't want to take advantage of anyone. So it's just part of life. I actually think it's not kind to be lacking choice or competency.

I actually think you can afford to be a lot kinder in life like you did with the guy with the parking. Right, right, right. Yeah. You're equipped. If you're confident, you make much better decisions than if you're scared. Is he a tall boy? He's above average height, yeah. Okay, okay. He's super funny. He's a very empathetic, very sweet kid. Oh, okay. I like it.

Well, Vince, I'm deeply thrilled I even know you. That's so nice to say. I love you, dude. I mean, really. I love you. Really, really, really. I'm inspired by you. It's very flattering that you give your time to me. So grateful to get a chance to come and been listening to this and enjoying what you're doing forever. And I remember we got close to doing that one movie together. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Lawyers, Guns and Money. Great script. Oh, thank you. Thank you. That was during my depression.

By the way, that's my story 20 years ago on Kauai. When you're talking about going fishing with Peter, me and my buddy from Detroit, we had booked fucking zip lines, Zodiac boat tour around the coast, all these fucking events. And we would wake up so fucking hungover and we'd go on these things and we'd just be throwing up while snorkeling. I mean, it was a fucking mess. Anyways, I love Bad Monkey. Is it set up to do more?

Yeah, it is. Great. I hope you keep doing it. It's so fucking good. It is currently on Apple TV+. It's fantastic. Everyone, it's great. It's beautifully shot. It's Bill. It's wonderful. I hope you come back again. For sure. Such a pleasure to sit with both of you and get a chance to spend the day with you. Thank you guys for having me. Stay tuned for the fact check so you can hear all the facts that were wrong. I'm testing out my pillows. You got three behind you right now. Yeah, because...

I need to be upright for my clothes. For your close-up. For my CU. God. What are our code names? Avocado. Avocado. What was the one where your face is fucked up? Your face is fucked up. And your face is fucked up, though it means your hair is fucked up? Actually, okay, well, my hair is fucked up. I didn't have time to do my hair. It looks cute, though. Which...

I got to figure out my timing. Yeah. But also, I have to be vulnerable already. Okay. Hit me with the vulnerability. Do you poop your pants? No. Not yet. Oh. I am on my period. Oh, it started. Yeah. My flies came. Congratulations. Thank you. And along with my period comes hormonal changes. Sure. Rollercoaster ride. Very sensitive to hormone changes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And my face always breaks out. My face is broken out as we are. Monica. Yes, it is. Monica. Max. Monica. I'm not seen. It's because you're not wearing your close-up glasses. No, actually, this is the only range that my eyes are actually still. Well, don't make me point it out. I mean, I'm wearing makeup, but it's still there. And, of course, I was like...

As we're starting video, this is happening. Well, additionally, we're about to go to New York to do a bunch of different press stuff and create the media package or whatever the hell we're doing. Yeah. Yeah. That's not where the stress is? Not really because I'm going to get into the dermatologist thing.

to get a little injection. Is that high risk? Like right before? No, they've got this dial. Yeah. It's not, not an injection, like a chin filler. Although I am, I did. You want to pump up a little more. This is the, this is the slippery slope. I know. Cause you like it for two weeks and then you're like, eh, maybe a little more. I can't see it anymore. But, um, when I was editing the other, the, the video, I did text Rob and say,

say I'm really grateful for my chin filler. Oh, okay. I can tell. Give it a moment of gratitude. I can tell on cam. Okay. But, okay, so no, at the dermatologist, they can inject...

Poison? Yeah, into a cystic acne explosion. And it will decrease the inflammation. How quick does it work? Is it magic? 24 hours, yeah. Really? Yeah, it's really good. Have you ever thought about like, why don't I just have this? Yes, I think about it every day. Yeah, why can't you just shoot yourself up? I think it's,

Remember I ordered, when you go to the dermatologist and they're like cauterizing things off you. It's like they're burning it. It's like electrical. For skin tags. And I ordered one off the internet and I paid a bunch and it never came. Yeah, it never came. It never came. But that's my big dream is to have that in my bathroom mounted right next to my mirror. What are you trying to cut off? Like I feel things around as I'm like,

You must do this, right? You just kind of scan your face with your fingertips and you feel a bump and you're like, oh, what's this? And then I try to scratch things off. I think you do too. Like right now I have, I guess they're called hypoplasia maybe. Hyperplasia, hypoplasia. No, hypo is not a lot. Hyper is a lot. Hyperplasia, too much skin. And they're just, they're little raised areas of my skin.

I don't see it. But you would be able to feel it. Okay, I don't think you're supposed to cut those off. Yeah, you're gonna zap them off with the electrical unit that I ordered that's still not here and I ordered it like two years ago. Yeah, I got another one over here. You know, I've had the dermatologist look at it and they're like, yeah, it's fine. It's a hypo or hyperplasia. And we'll just zap, zap, zap. I love the sound it makes too. Like it says the most gentle, and then it's gone.

So yeah, if I want that machine, if I were you, I would be even crazier about getting my hands on some syringes with this medicine. I've considered like going to dermatology school. Oh, to get certified. Getting a medical degree just so I can be qualified to do that. Also, aren't anestheticians allowed to do it? Which is not a medical degree. You mean estheticians. Yes, just like I said, estheticians.

That's what I said. They're allowed to do it, right? And that's what, a two-year degree, like a MoTeC, like a diesel mechanics type? All to say, here we are on video. Sure, sure, sure. And I'm- About to do a bunch of-

Yeah, but really I'm just – I can't – for a photo shoot or something, I can do tricks. I can go do these injections or whatever. Oh, okay. But we're going to record like every day for life and I can't control every day. Right. And I'm very self-conscious. But listen, A, I'm sorry you're self-conscious. B, I don't see any outbreaks, not to minimize your experience. Okay.

See, it's possible this will be the actual permanent cure. Yeah. Which is, it's untenable. There's no way you're going to be able to fucking worry and care every day. This might be like submersion, immersion therapy, whichever one it is, hypoplasia, hyperplasia therapy. Yeah. In three weeks, you're going to be like completely liberated. And then what if it goes away?

A, what if it goes away? B, what if you start looking insane? Like even I underestimated how much stuff you're doing to put yourself together. And then what if you just start coming with like tufts of hair we're missing, one eyebrow's gone, hair billowing out of your nose. At what point, what would it have to look like for you to say something? I don't know that that would be my position.

I mean, imagine how you would take me going like, hey, Monica, I say this as your friend. You look like shit. You really look like. Obviously, you can't say it like that. Listen, Monica, you know I love you. You know I think you're a wonderful person. You look like shit. Yeah, that's bad. I can't even hear it even when you pretend. It's a joke. Yeah. No, but remember last week you said, did you get enough sleep? Yeah.

That had nothing to do with you. I know, that was about my mood. Yes, because you were very upset about a trip you had previously been very excited about. I wasn't very excited. I was like a little, I was kind of excited. The initial pitch in the deck when you mapped out your day in Santa Monica to me, you were very excited about it. Wow. And then you were very not looking forward to it. You were grumpy. And yeah, that was too dangerous and-

And I probably, I won't ask if you had a bad night's sleep. You think I had a bad night's sleep last night? No, I don't. Like a horrible thing to say would be like something that implies you're grumpy. And I'm, like the subtext is something must be wrong. Yeah. Because you're not. You're not a grumpy person by nature. You're not a grouch. You're not Oscar the Grouch. Yeah. And so I then...

Get concerned and then I start guessing. And maybe the guessing is where we should lay off. Yeah, that's where you need to take a step back. But I guess here's how, if I looked like I was on drugs, would you say anything? You know, you and I have long had a different opinion about this. No, if you come to me and you say I'm struggling...

and I need help or I need advice, then I'm like, I'll drop everything and that's all we'll do to we've got a solution on the table. But no, I don't think it's, I don't think it works for me to go, I think you're going down the tubes or something. Also, when you're in that state, it's not going to work. Like,

Did you have a rough night's sleep? Didn't go well. And we're fine. You're not even a drug addict trying to like hang on to this thing and hide. You add all those layers. There's no way it would be received. It's a total waste of time. And then you potentially burn the...

Bridge when you do need help and you feel like you could come to me and I'm not going to be judgmental. Like we've already, I've now inflamed your defenses because I came to you before you were ready. That's so unfair though. To who? Who's the victim in this? I forget. I think it's, I think you should be rewarded for seeing me. Yeah. And saying no.

Hey, I'm noticing something feels a little off here. I'm here if you want to talk about it. Right. That's a very nice delivery of that. Okay. So let's go back to you being grumpy about Santa Monica. Okay. Ugh, because I really don't want to go to Santa Monica today. Okay.

Hey, I'm noticing you don't want to go to Santa Monica today. You previously wanted to go to Santa Monica really bad. And if there's anything going on you want to talk about, I'm here. I never wanted to go to Santa Monica. I mean, I wanted to go to Visamali, but then she's not there. Okay, you win. You're right. You're right. Okay.

See, you would just say that you weren't previously. But that's the truth. You had to, but you wouldn't have scheduled it at the time. Because here's what happened. You scheduled it at 4 p.m. And I was like, that's a bizarre time, in my opinion, to go to Santa Monica. Yeah. And you go, no, I love it. I spend the whole night there and I'll go out to eat at a favorite restaurant. And I purposely do it that way so I can have a night in Santa Monica. Okay. Okay.

I think there are some half-truths in there. Okay, which are? There are so many times I wish we could roll back the tape of our lives. Rob, put up the tape. I mean, I guess here we will be able to. Oh, my God. That would ruin everything. That's great. But...

I have to go to Santa Monica. I don't want to go to Santa Monica ever. No one does, even the people who live there. Yes, but if I do have to go for my face, which I don't want to have to do, but I have to do. Yeah.

Then I do think, how do I make the most of this situation? You want to make lemonade out of it. Yeah, and you have to plan it so specifically because otherwise it's an hour and a half back, and oh my God. So that's when I try to make lemonade. Around the corner fudge is made. And I schedule a dinner with my friend who lives there, my one friend. Molly Richardson. That's right. And she happened to be in Hawaii. Hawaii.

Yeah, but you didn't didn't you already know that? Because you were going to go to that. I was supposed to go. Well, that was also I think I was also sad I wasn't there. Okay. Okay. So there's a lot of layers to this. Everything's layered. I'm such an onion. It's shocking to me. It was shocking to you that Molly was in Hawaii when you made this plan because you yourself were going to be there.

I just really wasn't thinking that much about it. Did you get a good night's sleep the night before? That morning, had you gotten it? We never got to whether you did. I didn't. Oh, my God. This is, is this for Vince?

Yeah. This is really funny because this is a runner in the show, which is he like meets this pathologist. She works for the police department. She's a coroner or whatever pathologist. And they start working on the case together. And their first time, like out in the morning, he comes back to the table and he has brought a black coffee for himself and a coffee for her, cream two sugars.

And he goes, oh, I got it for you. I got cream two sugars. And she goes, why cream two sugars? He's like, I just, I had a feeling it was cream two sugars. And she's like, no, I like it black. And he goes, oh, okay, you like it black. I find that hard to believe, but okay, you like it black. And then as the show progresses, he keeps getting her black coffee. And finally she goes, I don't like it black. I like it with cream and two sugars. And I hated that you were right about it. And now I've been drinking, yeah.

Oh my God, Sim. Yeah, so it feels kind of maybe a little bit like that. What had happened on that night? Now that we can revisit it. I did not get a good night's sleep that night before. What had happened? What had happened was...

Were you on one of your marathons, your binges, or couldn't fall asleep or woke up with anxiety? Had a lover over late into the morning? Unfortunately, it was not the latter. Okay. I don't remember the details. Yeah. I remember when you said it. Yeah. That I thought, yes, that's true, but that's not what's going on here. Right. Right.

So I can't admit it. Yeah, yeah. But here I am. But now we are some weeks later. I slept pretty well last night. You did? Yeah. Okay, I'm struggling. The last few nights I've been waking up in the middle of the night for very long periods of time. And it is all the stuff coming up. Yeah, there's a lot of stress. And...

I guess a press tour, I haven't done one in a while. Yeah, but you like doing. I like when I get there. This is the story of my life. There's tons of things I'm like, rueing. Rue the day. Rue the day. And of course, when I'm there, it's like, I'm fine. I have fun everywhere I go. But yeah, I build it up. And again, it's the stupidest thing. It's like,

I gotta get outfits together. Yeah. And I gotta do better than I have in the past. You know there's these memes of Kristin and I, they're pretty funny, I gotta applaud the people that make them. When Kristin and I have done press tours, which we've done a bunch of them together,

You'll wake up in the morning, you're at Good Morning America at like 5.30 in the morning, then you go to The View, then you go to Rachel Ray, then you go to, and they come one, two, three, four. Like starts at 5.30 in the morning and just doesn't let up till 1 p.m. Well, I get dressed and I go. And Kristen has a change for every one of those appearances, but I'm in the same thing. And people have clocked that and they make memes and it's like, Dax, no, I'm gonna stick with this outfit. It's kind of funny, but.

But also I'm embarrassed. Does it hurt your feelings? Well, I'm just, I'm a little embarrassed because clearly she's doing it correctly and I'm probably doing it incorrectly. No, no, no, no, no. She's doing it, she's doing it

to match her style. I mean, it's annoying to have to get in all these changes, but she wants to look cute and look different and have all these looks. She actually has lots of outfits she can't wait to wear in public. Yeah, so you don't. I have like a single outfit I feel comfortable in in public, and I hope everything's on one day so I have a reason. I like that you are you.

Well, it's funny you say that because I was thinking I got to change my shirt at least between these many morning things I'm going to do. I mean, it's up to you. Hopefully people will be looking for this. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

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I'm not certain where I've landed, but luckily I do. Here's what I did think. Once I was awake, again, this is the thing with me and nighttime anxiety. In the middle of the night, I can't solve anything. I'm like an idiot. I don't have a solution. It's insurmountable. Our brains aren't working in the same way. And I'm just in a fear cycle. So it's like I can't even solve these things. Well, this morning I woke up.

Couple things. I'm like, I'm probably going to take an antidepressant for this week. That's not how they work. Well, it is. Let's remark that. Okay, okay, okay. The reason I had been prescribed it in the past was like leading up to CHIPS, I started having so much anxiety about the thing starting and I couldn't get sleep. And that's when I went on it. And it works very quickly for me. And even my psychiatrist was like, it is interesting. I've never heard anyone using it acutely. Mm-hmm.

Yet it's working for you, so I kind of sign off on this. Sound off, folks. So at any rate, I wake up this morning, I go, okay, calm down. You have two God's True Cashmere button-ups that you love. That you love. Those are suitable, right, for daytime television? Yeah, I think so. I mean, it'll be hot. Well, we're a tank underneath. We'll bring it. I'll just live in a tank top. Sure.

In a guinea tea. What if you forget to put it on and you wear your tank top? You're welcome, ladies. You're welcome, ladies of The View. Yeah. So I was like, okay. And then I have the beautiful Burberry gray sweater you bought me. Yeah, it's beautiful. And I was like, okay, that's great. That'll work on one, like maybe Drew. You're going to be so sweaty. Yeah, I know. None of this is going to work. And then now here's my other dilemma.

I only have a one suit that I have never worn on TV. And the reason I have it is the last time I was on Kimmel, I had gone in normal clothes, not a suit for the first time in a long time. And I said to him, hey, I'm sorry I'm not in a suit. I like to wear a suit when I come to your show. I'm out of them. And I'm afraid people are gonna start noticing I'm wearing the same thing over and over again.

And so he, best boy of the year award, bought me a beautiful suit and sent someone over to tailor it. So I have this gorgeous. He is. No, he's number one of all time. It's impossible. Can you see that? I can see our best boy. He's just kind of, now he's hovering above us. Yeah, yeah. Reminding us to be the best boy. But now I have this ethical dilemma because I'm doing Seth Meyers while I'm there. I'd like to wear a suit.

I don't think... Do you want to take that again? Meyers. I'm doing Seth Meyers. Let's just say what happened.

Here's what happens. I do say Seth Meyers instead of Seth Meyers. I know. And it's because I know I add S's to things being a Michigander, Kmart's, Walmart's, Ford's. I know. Cedars-Pointers. But then you're doing the opposite. Right, because I think, well, certainly there's not plural Meyers. It's got to be Seth Meyers. I know, but it's not. It is Meyers, but I'm overcorrecting. And he's a friend. He's a friend and a good boy, but I don't call him by his last name. So that part I don't feel. I've never fucked up Seth. Okay. Okay.

So I have an ethical dilemma. I see. Because clearly I should wear this suit for the first time on Jimmy Kimmel. I agree. Because he got it for me. Yeah. So then I'm like, I don't have a suit. Okay, because the thing is, if Jimmy heard this, he would say, of course wear the suit. I got it for you to wear to have a suit. Yeah. But that's exactly why you shouldn't because he's so good. And there's so little I can do in return. Yeah.

So at any rate, there's the suit debacle. All to say, I think I might.

take an antidepressant today. Wait. And I don't advise anybody to use an antidepressant the way I am going to use it. But I've already had the long conversation with my psychiatrist about it. You have? Yes. I just told you. I told him. Wait, did you have it now or you had it when you were doing chips? When I was doing chips, we went on it for the sleep thing. It worked. Then over time, I, what do they call that? They call it. Right.

Weaning off. Yeah, but there's a great name. No. Titrating. Titrating. Titrating. I have titrated off. And we're talking, you know, this is over the course. Chips was, what, eight years ago or something. Yeah, a long time ago. And in that period, I had gone off. And then occasionally, I would use it as I was having anxiety as something's approaching. And I said to him, I'm doing that. Okay. And this is the conversation I just said.

He's like, okay, I've not heard of people doing it acutely, but you're doing it. It's not damaging and it's working for you. So I don't have an objection to it. There's nothing very dangerous about what you're doing. So. Okay. I haven't said his name in case anyone disagrees with that. I'm not getting him or her in trouble. So I guess I think that's going to be my attempt. More on that later. I'll tell you how it goes. Okay. Yeah.

I don't know about it. It scares you, doesn't it? Yeah, it does. I have someone on them. Sure. But does it relieve you at all that I've done this a million times in the last eight years? Yeah. I just don't know if overall it's good for you to be on and off of them like that. Now, look, in her defense, she did say that's not how they work. They build up over time and start working. And I said, that's fine. But I'm taking them and I don't wake up.

And so we would both acknowledge the placebo effects real. So if I'm experiencing the placebo effect, but I'm getting the result I want, then who cares? And he said, that's exactly why I'm saying it's fine. Because I don't really think mechanistically they work that way. Yeah, but then you're putting hormones in. Well, not hormones. I mean, you're blocking. Yeah, exactly. You're inhibiting blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. For no reason. Submersion therapy.

Other than I don't wake up in the middle of the night. But then why don't you have them prescribe you? Sugar pills? Yeah. Well, I'll know there's sugar pills. Maybe they could listen right now and prescribe you your SSRI. Well, listen, you're saying they don't work and you don't believe in that. I mean, that's great. I do believe it. And there's no reason for me to give up that belief because it has had the result I desire, which is sleeping through the night, not waking up with anxiety. Yeah.

I know, but I'm saying the long-term effect might be bad. Well, no. Well, A, I think she or he would have pointed that out. She or he was not concerned at all. She does not care about you. They do care about me. And how dare you?

And my mom is my psychiatrist. Do I not say that? The shepherds are notorious for prescribing things and doctoring. I know this. Well. I might in my retirement go get an MD just to fuck you to everybody.

The only annoying that'll be is if I'm actually a doctor and you guys can no longer say. If you're going to do that, can you get it in dermatology so that you can do my injections? I'll get whatever one is the broadest net. I think DOs, they can maybe do more.

They're more willy-nilly. They can do more stuff. Because I admitted my sleep thing. Yeah. So I want you to, I happen to know that you were offered a stylist that you turned out. Yep. That's true. So why? Because I have, on a few different occasions, I have, and I got to be delicate about this because people are still around.

I have at times been a part of movies or shows where they did have a budget for a stylist and I used it. I am just too picky. It's not their fault they're great stylists, but I feel like I end up looking like some other guy that is a good example of it.

And it just. You don't feel like you. I don't feel like me. And so I'd rather like take the three things I've cobbled together that I love. Yeah. And I think are very me. But like new clothes that I just saw is almost, it's just antithetical. I get that. Yeah. I get that. Okay. That's fair. What did you think was the reason I said no? Well, I don't know, but I'm like you're up all night. Like I'm blue collar or something? I guess.

Yes, I mean, you're up all night worried about what to wear and there was a turnkey option for you. I'm gonna get more granular. Okay. 'Cause again, these anxieties, they're completely baseless, right? I'm not making an argument for that these are things that should be worried about. Part of the rumination is simply how I'm transporting these things there

And then I'm going to have to iron them. Now, this is all solvable, right? But I'm already panicked that I'm bringing clothes that presumably shouldn't be wrinkled. And I'm using a suitcase. And then I've been like, I'll be at three in the morning. I'm like, I got to get my hands on a garment bag. What does a garment bag do to your carry-on limit?

Can I have a backpack and a garment bag? Will I forget the garment bag? I mean, it's madness. It's just anxiety about doing stuff I haven't done in a while. Yeah. And it's... Trying to get control over it. It's landing on these objects and these things. But it's just a generalized anxiety. But it's...

It's going to be, it's great. I'm going to get to New York and be elated. I'm going to be so excited and energized and feeling spunky and spry and youthful. And I won't care about anything. Exactly. I'll be eating Emmy burger. I will be at Bubby's. Are we going to hang? Yeah, we should, we should go get some Emmy burgers together for sure. And we're working together. So yeah. Um,

You've elected to stay in opposite sides of the city wherever I'm at. No, no, no. Yeah, so that's going to compound the travel time a little bit. That's not true. But when I stay uptown, you're going to stay downtown. And then when I go to downtown, you're going to go uptown. I'm not going when you're going downtown. You're never going uptown? No, I'm not going uptown. Oh. I'm just staying downtown. Right. Because you're more of a downtown girl. I'm a downtown girl. J-Lo girl from the block. Yeah, I am. Actually, no. Jenny from the block. I love...

I stay a couple days up, up, up, up. Up, up, to Upper East Side. Yes, the upest. The real uptown. Uptown girl. We're not doing that this time. Do you know that today... Ooh. Ooh. This is going to date us. Okay. But today I posted a little clip of us testing this space. Oh, I didn't see. You got to call. Okay. A little clip. And...

And I look to see quickly. I just did a quick glance. Just a real cursory glance. Cursory glance of those comments. Just quick. They're almost, I will say, since we've been airing all of the emotional turmoil, they've gotten almost preposterously positive about it. Well, that's nice. Yeah, it's nice. It's nice. But it has tipped towards now it's like.

It's a lot of monologues about how much they love you, which you deserve. Well, that's very kind. But it was just a big swing. So I think it's very safe. Well, I think that's good for the world. We should be trying to get more kindness. To swing positive? Yeah. But no, like the first comment is that you look hot.

Oh, that's great. Yeah, so I think you should go. You should be happy. I should go read those? Actually, please don't. I don't know. You know I'm against it, but you're for it. Do you sense sometimes that I'm riding high on my ego with looks? No. Because you said don't read them.

Oh, no, I just meant don't read them because, like, I don't agree with reading comments. Oh, right. I thought you meant, like, don't get carried away reading your hot over and over again. No, I don't think that. And what will it do to you? Do you do this? I do when I'm scrolling through friends, particularly you, of course, and I'll see a post of yours. And I always glance to see, like, what causes a fervor of activity.

Interesting, okay. Do you notice that in your friends' posts? Like what has a lot of likes or whatever? And comments. Like what activates people? I don't really do that. You don't notice that. I follow Rogan. Every post of Rogan, there's like tens of thousands of comments. Is he engaging back? No, no, no, no. In fact...

I don't know this from him. I know this from Atiyah. He's almost got like a motto, and it's probably how he keeps himself sane. He's post and ghost. Yeah, like me. So he's like, say what you want to say. Yeah, post and ghost. So he's been in the post and ghost game for a while. Okay. And I think it's really healthy. I do that. So you guys have the same strategy. We do, except I've been lured back into it. I post and then read everything. I know. Yeah. I...

I know. Now, let me ask you this, because the way you, the look on your face. Yeah. Do you, is that, I feel like there's. People are mad at me that I. Well, I feel like there's judgment in it. It's not. You don't think that says something about me that I read them? No. You sure? Be honest. I'm thinking. Okay. No. I don't think it says something negative about you, but I do worry. I mean, we, God, we've talked about this so much. I know, ad nauseum. But do you think it's.

symbolizes a level of narcissism? 'Cause that would be a fair, I think that'd be a very fair concern.

I wouldn't have phrased it like that. I don't think – no, I don't think so. I think it's arrogant to think that anyone could read a bunch of stuff about themselves and not be affected. Right. Positively or negatively. Mainly negatively. So for me, I'm just very hyper aware of –

not on your page about you, but on ours, that it's going to impact in a negative way. Or not necessarily in a negative way, but in a way. And I really don't want that. So I think I can be honest about this, which is it's all the things. So one is truly a commitment to the people who like our stuff, who take their time. That is a sincere and real commitment.

obligation that I think I have and I'm happy to have, which is you take the time to share something with you. I want you to know I saw you. That's genuine. Also, I do get a dopamine hit when we do something that's good that I was proud of and I see confirmation of it. And I do use it. There's like two versions of it. There's one where it's like, I got to do this. I got to make sure everyone knows I saw.

That happens at a certain time of day. Then there's another time I use it and that's like I'm exhausted. I'm kind of depleted. And then I'm on the couch and I read it and I am very much –

regulating with it. And it's like an afternoon drink or an afternoon coffee. And I get a like 10 minutes of feeling good and I like it. And then I like somehow that gives me the energy to then get up and go on the sauna and do my cold plunge or whatever the routine is. So definitely all things are happening.

I do like reading nice things about myself. I'm guilty of that. Yeah, I mean, I get it. I'm guilty of liking when people say I look ripped. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, everyone likes that, but there's a reason. It can hit a point where it's too much. Like no one should be getting that much praise or negativity. I totally agree.

And what I do feel really good about is it's a very, very minimal part of my life. I'm really on that app by my estimation much less than most people I know. Yeah. So it didn't know. Look, I'm good at knowing when I'm addicted to things and when it's tipped and I'm leaning on this to regulate or I need it or in the absence of it, I feel bad. Like I'm acutely aware of when I'm in that cycle. Yeah. And I don't.

I don't have that, which is not to say I haven't had some low points in life where I did lean on that, but I'll just say for a very long time, I'm not in that zone at all with it. It's like, oh, that was great. That was a fun pick me up. That was like 15 minutes of my day. That made me feel good and carrying on. I don't need to go back to it a bunch of times. I'm not in bed looking at it, staying awake, you know. All right. Okay.

All right. Well, there's really not many facts. Because Vince Vaughn wasn't dropping stats on us? He was not. But he was very smart. He's very, very smart. Yeah. Very smart. I don't think you can be a great improver and not be really, really smart. Yeah. Your brain has to be working in a very specific way. Speedily.

and the references and the analogies and his unique and specific zone is the analogy. Yeah, it's almost like a rapper. Like making those connections all the time. I think he's so great. I'm so head over heels in love with him and always have been. Do you think I was debating whether I should tell him since I've admitted to it on the podcast so many times that I used to gossip about him? I was even considering making like an public amends and I thought this is gonna make him feel uncomfortable.

You were waiting for it? I would guess that most people who have been listening to this show since day one was expecting that to come out. Yes. And I owed it to him. No, I'm really glad you didn't do it. Okay, good. I just decided this would be more about me than him. He doesn't need this.

I think that's right. Is that your assessment? Yeah. Yeah. It would have been self-indulgent in a weird way. I agree. And I was happy that you had some restraint there. There was one moment. I know. There was one moment where I thought. It was coming. I thought it was coming. You probably spidey sense that it was in my mind and the debate was happening. Yeah.

I just wonder how much anxiety you were experiencing waiting for that to happen and what you predicted the outcome would have been.

It's just been very weird for him to hear that, right? It would have been weird. I mean, he would have handled it great, I'm sure. Yeah. And he probably would have said... In the dream world and where I would have convinced myself that maybe it would be productive is that he would then say, you know, I used to do that about so-and-so. Yeah. And then we would see like, oh, yeah, this is a very natural thing when you love people and, you know. Sure.

But that never felt like that was going to be the outcome of that. Yeah. Now, another one, just to go into our past. Yeah. That I had a very similar debate. Uh-huh. And it was Robert Downey Jr. Okay. Because as you recall, up to that point, I had never admitted to him I had had dreams about him every month my whole life. Yeah. And that too is a very weird thing to drop on somebody. Yeah.

And for whatever reason, I did tell him in that interview. Yeah. And we have since had lots of fun with it. He will text me like, presuming you just woke up dreaming about me, wanted to see if you wanted to have lunch or something. I think that's different because you guys are friends. So close. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of different things to be evaluating. Yeah. We also want to make sure the guest is very comfortable. Uh-huh.

And he's so tall already, that couch was... It was not comfortable. No, it wasn't comfortable. Even though we restuffed. Did we? They left the attic, the cushions, and then they came back, but they don't seem to be any more buoyant. They don't. No. Maybe I should shove some books under the bottom. No, I love it. You love it?

I love it when people sink. No, I kept watching. He was trying to adjust. He was adjusting so much. I love the way it looks when people adjust. Oh, you kind of have an adjust fetish. A thing for that. An adjust kink.

What if that was your thing and when your lover came to your apartment, you had a specific chair that was highly uncomfortable and you could adjust real time and you just love like, oh, you can't get comfortable. Oh, can I sit? No, that's your chair. The other one's broken. It is? Yes, it's all fucked up. Yes, you'll fall. This is the only chair that works. If you wanna be with me, you're gonna sit in this chair. And then Jesus, the more uncomfortable...

It kind of works into your other fantasy because then you would somehow comfort them. You'd go, why don't you come sit over here? And they'd be so relieved to be sitting on something comfortable. That's so bad. It's like I have to trick people into my love. Yeah. That's bad. Wow. We've been pointing this out from the very first time you said it. No, we've never said it like that. I mean, and I said it. You didn't just say it like that, but I'm hearing it. I said it as...

The endearing part is that you wouldn't be worthy of love unless you could comfort them. Yeah, unless they needed me. In a way that most people would be afraid to get into the mix. Yeah. Diarrhea throw up. Oh, this video feels more. Okay, we're exposing. But yeah, you're saying, I'm Jenny from the block. Like I can get down. I'm the real deal. Oh, downtown. Yeah. Yeah.

But also uptown. Yeah, it's also quite often uptown. Do you know that hotel can't hold any...

magic for me, like you go to the Carlisle and you love it. Yeah. And you're excited and it's expensive and it's a treat and indulgent. Yeah, big time. I lived there for three weeks when I worked for GM. So I would wake up at four in the morning at the Carlisle and go wash cars in a parking lot. And so I associate that hotel with work, with a $10 an hour job that I worked 100 hours a week. It was killing myself. Wow.

And so it doesn't have that shimmer that it has for you. But weirdly, the journalists were staying at the Mark, which is like two streets over. And I'd go there to pick journalists up and it's virtually the same hotel. I'd be in there and be like, wow. Ooh la la. I didn't know you stayed there for three weeks. Three weeks. Yeah. It's a nice hotel. Did you go to the bar?

Oh, I went to the bar, but I didn't go to that bar. I went to bars that you could get a Budweiser for $1.50. Yeah, not a $50 martini. You know our ninja story, Aaron and I's ninja story. Maybe. Maybe.

You hate fight stories, but here it is. Here it is. At the end of this three weeks, we had worked so hard and our employers, our client knew it and they threw a party for us. Open bar at a kind of okay, nice middle ground place. Sure. So there were whatever, 20 of us in the crew. We all go there. We get slashed. Yeah, of course. One of the dudes falls asleep and then all the thing. My mom's like, you got to get him out of here. This is the client still. Yeah. My mom long leaves.

We're still there. Thank God at this point the client has left too. So Aaron and Dean and like five of us are walking out.

And a backstory, for years as a drunk joke, we would talk about, we all dreamed if you ever got in a fight, if you could ape palm somebody. We made this up, that you would just ape palm them in the face. It was this ongoing kind of joke. What if you ape palm somebody? No one was ever gonna do this. Which just means you throw your- Just your whole hand across their face like this. Okay, okay, okay. It would be impractical in a fight, blah, blah, blah. So we're walking out and I, I'm pretty drunk. I did bump into a guy.

And I turned around and I was really nice. I go, oh my God, dude, I'm so sorry. I bumped into you. And he goes immediately, yeah, motherfucker, you want to fucking bump into me? And he started going to 10. Yeah. And everyone was watching and I just was drunk and I go,

And I fucking wound back and I swung as hard as I could with my whole body weight. I caught this guy's face just like directly across the face like I was palming a basketball. And with my weight, I just took both of us down. So it was an eight palm to the face and then slammed to the ground. And then you tripped.

Well, I just went all in on the eight palm. I threw it as hard as I could and it took my whole body with me. So I land on top of him in the eight palm and within seconds. I'm sorry, are you saying eight palm or eight? Like an ape, like you're a gorilla. Okay, okay. Yeah. And within seconds, I'm being lifted up by two bouncers.

Being taken off the top of the sky. And one of the bouncers, the third bouncer, got really physical with my friends, you know, probably trying to make sure they didn't get involved. Whatever the case, it was too physical for that friend. And now it's a fight between four of us and three bouncers. I know. You hate this story. The bouncers throw us bodily out of the bar, right? Yeah. Yeah.

We land on the sidewalk. We stand up. There's like six of us at this point. And immediately there are nine or ten guys all in matching head-to-toe Adidas tracksuits. Uh-huh. And they start, I think, coming to the aid of the bouncers beating the shit out of us. And now there are all these other strange guys. It's a melee. Oh, my God. They came out of nowhere. Yeah.

The next day, Aaron Tyrell had like two very weird bruises across his chest. We had like, we had neck pain. We had weird things. And when we woke up in the morning, we were trying to make sense of it all. I'm like, those, I think those were ninjas. Like they, we have weird bruises and pains that cannot be explained. Anywho, we came back to the Carlisle after that aftermath.

And woke up, you know, very hungover, beat up and had to go wash cars at five that morning. So it has a very specific place in my memory. Well, we talked about this during the Without a Paddle episode. We talked about... We talked about you. Like, just change. Oh, yes. You and change. Yes, yes. Evolution. Evolution. Because what I said on that episode is you're the same, which was...

Like, I liked that. I liked seeing you look... I liked that you liked it. You did? I wasn't sure what the read was, but yeah, when you said that, I was like, is that good or bad? Yeah, it was good. Yeah, I'm glad that you liked it. Like, you've always been you. Right. But then it's like, I mean, I guess...

I'm impressed. Like, you've always been you, but you have shed a lot of things that have not served you. Yeah, I was a much more extreme version of myself. Yeah. Especially when drunk. I know. You want to see it, right? I do kind of want to see it. How could you not? You wouldn't want to see it, but you want to see it. I guess there's a part of me that's, maybe if I'm being very honest, like, jealous of

Because I don't know the whole, I think I know you so well. Yes, and you do. And I do, but there's a whole scope of you that I don't know. Right. The headlines are like, if I were you, yes, the headlines are nuts. Yeah, I would have a hard time reconciling. Like if I found out you used to fight chicks all the time at the bar, it would be hard to reconcile. Yeah.

And also it wouldn't because you're also a stubborn sheriff. Yeah, I know. So in my mind, I recognize the behavior's changed a lot. But also I don't ever think I was like a bully. Like even in that situation, I had genuinely apologized to the guy. And then I was really fucking mad. I had been so nice and the guy was going to be a dick back, right? Yeah. So then I did, obviously. But-

To me, with the exception of a few situations, the ones that are very shameful and very drug-driven or whatever, they feel consistent in my memory. Like, I see how they all happened. And I also had nothing to lose for so long. I know. Yeah, like, it didn't matter if I got arrested and woke up in jail the next day. There was nothing to sue me for. When you close your eyes and you picture yourself, do you picture yourself...

Looking like the guy in Without a Paddle. Oh, God, no. And it's weird for me to watch that. Is it? Extremely. Yeah. It's even weird for me to watch Parenthood. Yeah, you look different. Yeah, it is. I think what's even weirder, and I don't know if this sounds arrogant, but I think I've looked like this.

Yeah. I have felt like I looked like this my whole life. Right. And I didn't. Yeah. And no wonder so many guys were taking runs at me because I was feeling like I'm this and I deserve this amount of respect and distance and appropriately, you know, I think, yeah. You deserve respect and distance regardless of what you look like. I mean, like man on man. I know, but I'm just saying. You have to...

You know, you have to proceed with some caution if I'm interacting with a rugby player who's 6'5". You're going to bring a different version of yourself. Whether that's right or wrong, I just think it's real. Okay, yeah. And, you know, if you're the littlest guy at the bar, you're going to take shit.

I watch it with Panay. I travel with Panay and I've been at bars at night and like guys think they can come up to Panay and just say the fucking rudest, meanest stuff because he's small, which is totally unfair. But I have always felt like you can't do that to me. Right. And I guess in my mind, I looked like this or something. Interesting. Yeah. I imagine everyone kind of goes back in time with whatever current image they have of themselves. Yeah.

That's what I'm asking, I guess, because I- How about you? You too. I'll look at pictures of you at the very beginning. I've changed a lot too. And you were like the tiniest human being on planet Earth. I have forgotten that you were the tiniest human being on planet Earth. Yeah. So what is it like for you when you see that? I still feel like that. So I think I'm not like you. I think I imagine in my head-

a more previous version. Yeah. Do you think, okay, so this is interesting. Like it's positive that I've always been who I was. And I get that by the way. I think I like that about people. I think maybe it symbolizes authenticity, right? Like you've always been this person and we like authenticity. So that part I get, I like, I'm glad you think that. And then

The body thing, so like I have dramatically changed my body. So does that trigger? Why doesn't that trigger or does it trigger like a lack of authenticity? Like you made yourself a completely different person physically. Like when I saw that and even if somehow doing that episode encouraged people to go watch that, they too are probably going like, oh my God, he looks so different. Yeah. And do they think differently?

You know, that's some signal of. Like he betrayed himself. Yeah, exactly. Like he didn't love himself. He wanted to be somebody other than he was. Well, is it true? Well, that boy wanted to be big too. Yeah. I just hadn't figured out how yet. So in that way, it feels really in keeping with who I always was. Like I would have always wanted to be 200 with muscles. That was always the goal.

But, okay, so when you looked back at it and you were like, oh, like, I look so different, but I look good. Yeah. I think I'm a, like, I look at that and I think that's totally fine. But, so you think that's totally fine. You don't think like, oh, wow, I looked good. So why'd I do all this? Oh, no, I don't think that. Okay, interesting. Yeah. I think my hair looks good in that movie. It does, yeah. I was like, in fact, I almost brought that up. Again, that's.

My hubris. Yeah. Kind of like the stylist thing. I also have a very hard time with someone just choosing what my hair will look like. Yeah. It's a big thing for me. Yeah. That might have been the last movie I let someone just completely, they were in charge. Because I didn't know what I was doing. I didn't know about hair and makeup. We didn't have an un-ponked. It would have been.

You went crazy on your first movie to say, like, don't touch my hair. Of course, of course. And then also, that's not the only time. I also allowed it in Zathura. In Idiocracy, I just had to have a really bad haircut. Right, right. But...

In general, I stopped and definitely my hair got worse and worse and worse in movies. Yeah. And like if you watch Parenthood, I was largely in charge of my hair and it's just hit or miss. Some episodes my hair looks good and sometimes it looks insane. Like people in TV shows, their hair doesn't look like my looks in a lot of things. Yeah. Yeah.

Oh, my God. It's so embarrassing and funny. Well, professionals are professionals for a reason. Yeah, professionals be professioning. Turns out. All right. Okay, let's see if I – let's see. You know, what I didn't tell him, what I wanted to tell him and didn't tell him also because I would be indulgent. Actually, that's not why. I just forgot. I probably would have told him is that I stood outside for like –

10 hours or whatever with Callie in London outside the breakup premiere. The breakup premiere. And I got his autograph. But you also just had Jack, but you did the Kung Fu premiere. That was at CAM. What was the other one? Oh, London versus CAM. No, London. Yeah, I studied abroad twice.

Okay, because you know how I have stories where you start to go like, hold on a second. You've called me out a bunch of times. Sure. Like, is it six or is it 12? You're kind of playing it fast. And for me, one of the only things for you is how many things you've stood in line for.

Okay. Because there's a bunch, right? Throw them at me. But I do remember the one now about London because you saw Jen Aniston. And Vince Vaughn. And we got, Callie and I got their autograph. We were up. Oh, you got their autograph. Yeah. And we were walking by. What have you always said? Do you remember me? So nice to see you again. Actually. It's been, fuck, it's been what? It's been so long. You're asking him. It's been like what? Like 17 years? Right? Yeah.

Oh, my God. No, but actually, I met him twice. I met him there. Okay. And yeah, we were just walking by and they were setting up the barriers and we were like, what's this for? And they said, the breakup premiere. And we were like, fuck whatever we were about to do for the rest of the day. We are standing here. Yes. So we were right up there. We got...

Autographs. It was very exciting. Yeah, yeah. But then I booked a... What was it? It was not a commercial...

But it was some sort of. Wait, was it Career Enthusiasm? No, no, no. Because he was on that. No, no. Okay. It was like a commercial, but not an industrial, but somewhere in the middle. Some promotional thing for a movie that he was in. Ann Owen Wilson, I think. Oh, The Intern? Yes.

Bingo. Wow. Good job. Thank you. Yes. And they cast some people to like sit around this big executive table and we were like executives kind of? I don't remember or something when we were – they were interns there pitching ideas and it was all improvised. Uh-huh. And it was –

I was so excited to book that, obviously. Oh, yes. So I could see him improvise in real life and I couldn't, I...

It's like said stuff. You did? Yeah. So we've worked together. Oh, my God. Well, that's more than I can say. Anyway, so we're old buddies. I just didn't want to bring any of that up. I didn't want to make it about us while you're sitting there. Knowing how much I love him. Yeah, exactly. The only fact is he said he thinks that Elmore Leonard and Kershaw

Carl, who wrote Bad Monkey, are friends. Yeah. I mean, I don't have their contact info. And there's nothing on the internet that substantiates that claim? Rob, do you want to look? If they're friends? Yeah. Say, so-and-so, so-and-so, are they friends? Or are Elmore, Leonard, and Carlisle... Carl, the Carlisle Hotel. These are both hard names to spell. Yeah, they are. Carlisle who? Carlisle.

No, Carl. Carl. Lyle. Carl Lyle. I'm not finding anything. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, we'll take his word, I guess. Wait, Elmore. Bad Monkey is a book and he and Leonard were buddies before Elmore Leonard died. That's on Reddit. Okay. Well, maybe that's Vince submitted that on Reddit. You wrote that. All right. Anyway. Love you. Love you.

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