Kathryn Hahn Returns
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Wondery Plus subscribers can listen to Armchair Expert early and ad-free right now. Join Wondery Plus in the Wondery app or on Apple Podcasts, or you can listen for free wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. This is Donica. No, Danamonica. Oh. There it is. There it is.

Take two. As you'll hear in the episode, this comes up, this welcome, welcome, welcome, and our name is getting all distorted. She gave some good examples and I forgot to write it down. But we were going to nod to her and honor her because she deserves an honoring and a nodding. That's right. But we forgot. Yeah.

Maybe another one. Yeah. But anyways, in pursuit of trying to remember what she said, we did just come up with Danamonica, which sounds close to Santa Monica and really incorporates both of us. It's cool. Katherine Hahn, Emmy-nominated actor, Bad Moms, Tiny Beautiful Things, WandaVision, Mrs. Fletcher Glass-Onion.

In her new series out now on Disney+, Agatha All Along, who you fell in love with on WandaVision. It is a spinoff of her character from WandaVision. Witches. Witches. Please enjoy Katherine Hahn. Not a witch. Unless she wants to be one. She's a witch.

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Oh my god, that is so pretty!

- Oh, I'm so proud of you. - Oh, all three of you. Also the compound. - Oh yeah, there's probably nothing. - There's nothing here. - Right, just the shell of the house probably. - Yeah. - Did you already do the math? - No, I didn't. - Six years. - Six years, you guys. - Does that feel accurate to you? - Time is like this right now. - Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And increasingly so, right? Time? - Well, I just went to see Olivia Rodrigo this weekend.

Thank you. My dear. And thank you for the tea. My liquid death. There wasn't a bathroom door when you were here last time. I know. I remember. It kind of feels sad that it's there. Thank you. I kind of missed the curtain. Okay.

Catherine, I love you. I do. Oh, my God, you guys, as soon as I sat back, my jeans popped. Oh, that's fine. I'm just going to relax. Yeah, get comfortable. You know. Let the chips fall where they may. You can take them right off. There's a blanket you can swing over your lap. Swing over? I love that you guys have chosen not to wash the couch because it's kind of historic.

Yeah, what is it? King Harry? Henry. I mean... Oh, God, you messed... I always say King Henry on accident, but it's King Harry. Okay, because it's Prince. Prince Harry. Prince Harry, yes. Yeah. So it's like...

King Harry? I know. It's a mess. He's sweat there. So we can't get rid of it. Letterman peed his pants right where you're sitting. This feels really strange now. It's not really that comfortable, right? I think we just had those restuffed, didn't we? But I sat in it yesterday and it felt like it was at an angle. Do you feel like you're at a bad angle? No, I feel really tucked into this corner in a nice way. It feels very cozy. Yeah. It's like a little tuck. I like my little cozy corner. I have to presume you're going somewhere after this because...

because you look so nice. Do you want to know my clues? Because my hair is soaking wet. But you live a couple feet away, right? I hear you. What if I had taken a nice car the five steps it would have taken me to walk here? Right, so I just walked outside. Yeah. I see an SUV. Times have changed, Dax. Well, I know, but I just want to say clearly a studio has sent an SUV for you to get around today. And I thought, I don't think Catherine would have been like, yes, send it. No, it was embarrassing. I'm going 30 feet. I was

Like, you guys, I can walk there, but I'm doing the dodo. Okay, what's the dodo? I guess it's like a pet or an adoption thing where you have like a date with a rescue animal. Oh, you have a date with a dog or a cat today? Yeah, today, a dog and a cat. Okay. So anyway, my daughter's going to meet me there, which is very cute. Oh, cute. What if you also requested stretch limo, like 90s style? And what if I didn't even walk anymore? Like, what if I was like, I just need to be in a little rascal now?

from my black car. Or a sedan chair, the way they would carry people on their shoulders. That would be fun. Trying to get up the stairs, yelling at everyone. As we sit here and talk, I am trying to think if there's

ever been anything that did a 180 as much as the limousine from when you and I were younger. The dream was to be in a fucking Burt Reynolds... Stretch for prom. The longer, the better. The longer, the better. Always. You want to get in and have to crawl on your hands and knees for like six, seven minutes to get to that front seat. Yes. And now, wouldn't you be deeply humiliated to get out of a stretch limousine? I would be...

Although now I feel like it would be hilarious if someone were to roll up. It's a move. Not even in the movie, but just kind of going. Yeah. Sure, sure, sure. That's a Will Ferrell move. In a stretch white limo. Should we commit to that as like, let's bring back the stretch limo?

Is that what we're committing to today? You know, I often am perusing the classified ads for cars. Yeah. You know me. Anything that might pique my interest, I'll take a gander at. Maybe you'd be shocked. Maybe you wouldn't. You could get a stretch limousine for $1,000. You can't get rid of them.

My dad had four cars. He passed away this spring. Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, my gosh. I know, but he just had a lot of stuff. And that's an understatement. But he had four caddies and one Oldsmobile. One of the caddies, we drove out here early and I had transportation. What is it called? Like in a thing? A carrier. Shipped. Shipped.

Oh my God, between the three of us, we can't say. I think we had it shipped. I had brain fog. I keep saying that until like the day. Until someone comes and whispers in your ear what word you were looking for. Yes. Just wait patiently. I need that so badly. My kids are just so patient now. They're just like, hmm. It was a 91 Eldorado. So,

So fantastic. You could land a plane on the front of this thing. But you know the benches in the front? They had one seatbelt that went across the whole front. 60-40 split, they called that. Why? Because the driver's seat, actually, you could maneuver it, right? Oh, right. And then the other part, the 60%, was for the passenger and a middle rider. We have one of those in the Roadmaster. Me and the girls just drove up to Bob's Big Boys all in the front. Oh, man. That was so fun.

So are you driving that thing around town now? No, we had it shipped out and then we looked at the undercarriage and it is definitely a Midwest loved car. It is rusted. Swiss cheese under there. Yeah. Looks like a prehistoric creature. The rust has rusted into something else. It's like, yeah, there's nothing to do. Then you got to ship it to a junkyard. And then you're like, oh my God, what a waste of that whole endeavor. I know.

Did you have this, and maybe it's too early to talk about it for you. I'm 12 years out from my father passing. Yeah. Your parents, were they together? No. No, right. Okay. They got divorced when I was like 30. Oh, wow. I know, which was interesting. How cool. I mean. I don't think.

I mean, that was cool. In the same way that it's original to drive around in a limousine now. Like, no one's getting divorced when the kids are 30. Did it make you feel like a kid? That's exactly what it did. You really revert. Yeah, I had a similar situation. It didn't end in a divorce, but there was a very tenuous time between my parents. And I was out here totally living on my own. And I was like...

no you can't yeah actually that's not gonna work for me and i need you two to be in the same house at christmas yeah the one time i come home you must you have to my annual trip just get it together just get it together cut the shit really come on you've gone this far cut the fucking shit i know so then this applies and not to get so fucking heavy right out of the gates but my father died and then i go to where he's living and i'm just looking at all this stuff and i go like

Oh, wow. We just gather all this stuff and it means so much to us.

And then at some point, someone's going to just look at this room and go like, I don't know, just take it all away, I guess. Isn't that weird? I know. Well, my father was a real hoarder. He had a real like disorder. Let's just say that there was a company called in called Masters of Disaster. Oh, okay. Not Masters of the Universe, Masters of Disaster. It was profound to go walk through my childhood home. You couldn't go up the stairs, the attic. So it was

peeling back layers of stuff that meant nothing to us to finding stuff that was ours, that had been buried underneath. It was like layers and layers of things we didn't recognize to just like a little box that said, Catherine's Earbooks. It was deep. And compounded by the hoarderism. Yes. You're just struck with the fact that you hang on to these things, you almost define yourself with these things, they make you feel safe, and then they just get sent to the junkyard. Have you heard of the Swedish Art of Death Cleaning? No. Oh.

Swedish Art of Death Cling. Yes. Sounds like a punk band from our youth. I know it does. Earmark that. We're coming right back to it. I just want to say, six years ago, my main takeaway, the thing I'll never forget from that interview, is that we liked Fugazi and you like hung out on a bridge.

Yeah. In Cleveland. And you're like a punk girl, like Fugazi. And I'm like, soul sister. Okay, continue. Swedish masters of death. I have a fallback to that question. Okay. Olivia Rodrigo, guess who opened it? Who? The freaking Breeders. Oh, really? Yes. It made me love her. And then they played Gigantic at the end. All these kids had no idea what was going on. And my hubby and I were like sobbing.

Yeah, I bet. That would make me love her too. I already do. We do love her. She's incredible. Okay, but a Swedish death clean. Okay, so Swedish art of death cleaning. And Polar produced a show about it. It's basically like Marie Kondo. You know, the whole thing of hers is, does this bring me joy? But this is, will this bring joy to the people I love after I die? Oh my God. You have to really like look at death, understand, accept it, and then start to unburden yourself from death.

stuff. So then you can live this chapter of your life unburdened by accumulation. This is so Swedish. This might be the most Swedish thing I've ever heard. We were just there. I got assaulted in a gas station. How? By an older man who was really mad I wasn't

following the rules precisely of where to pay with your credit card. I've never heard of like a mean Swedish person. I had to take some responsibility for it when we left. I was like, I gotta imagine that was very uncharacteristic and I must have triggered him greatly. And he must have thought like this big bully, even though I'm a fighter of bullies. Yeah. I only got big to fight bullies. Which sometimes makes you a bully. I know. It's so weird. These lines are very impermanent. Yeah, they are. We're constantly on sand. Yeah.

Who am I? What do I want? Don't you like pretty things? I think I happen to know that we share a designer. Oh. Oh. Did you work with Nikki Kilo? Amy. She's working on my house. My button just fell out of my pants. Oh, my God. Just take them off. spontaneously. They don't want to be a part of this interview. Wait. Isn't she incredible? She's perfect. I know. She's...

I want to see pictures. Perfect. Her book, I would just be like, peace. And she's so cool. I know. She's like chill and low key and seemingly has no ego, even though she's perfect. I want to be her. Me too. I know we're getting off of gender stuff. We're moving on as we should and people shouldn't be in boxes, but it's incredible what those images do for you guys. Oh. And I don't know any guy. I don't know a single guy that's just like absolutely thunderstruck by interior design. Yeah.

I clearly know some. We just haven't talked about it. But we will look at the history of muscle cars and we will fucking spray. What is going on? It's so fascinating. Do you say I'll fucking spray? That's so insane. I know, I know. I'm trying to make it not as scary through my best friend Aaron and I say it a lot and we're trying to... You're trying to like put that in the... Do you miss

De-intensify it? I don't know. It just comes to mind. Pump, pump, spray, spray. I don't know. Okay, great. I know what you mean. I feel like there's some incredible male interior designers who have like

insane eyes. But for me and you and a lot of women and also a lot of guys, friends I have that are like, what? Because when something like clicks into place visually, when you walk into a room, it does give you a feeling of peace. Balance, right? It's like symmetrical in all of the ways there can be symmetry. When you're like, oh, this is relaxing. And I dig it. I guess we grew up in visual chaos. Yes. So there is something that feels like,

Catherine, back to cleaning out our father's place. Yes. And I feel like I'm almost dishonoring him by reporting this, but any big plastic jug that he had used all the contents in, he saved. Like he was going to somehow repurpose all these containers. He thought he was going to make a vase out of them. I don't think a vase. Often it's a vase. I'll throw nuts and bolts in that one and I'll throw whatever. Sure.

How could he not at some point been like, got enough plastic jugs, not enough washers and bolts and change in the world to fill up all these in a bizarre way I can relate. Like I'll finish a big thing of protein powder in a jug. I'm like, that's a big usable vessel. Cut off the thing and then just like, yeah, totally. It feels crazy to throw this away. So many Folgers cans. If you were living in the 1300s, this would be like the most prized possession someone could have. What was the weirdest thing your dad was storing in mass? I can't even. Let's just say it took from...

May till like last week for the house to be finally cleared. Outboard motors on top of outboard motors. There's a life-size version of the Peeta in the backyard and anchor the size of both of these chairs together in our front yard. He said it was for the F something Fitzgerald, which is like a

big freight ship that sank in the Lake Erie back in the 40s. The Edmunds Fitzgerald. Edmund Fitzgerald. Well, a legend lives on from the Chippewa down of the big lake they call Gitche Gumee. Stop it. What if I start crying? The lake it is never gives up her dead when the skies of November turn gloomy. Wait, you never cease to surprise me. That's the Edmunds Fitzgerald by Gordon Lightfoot. Oh,

With its load of iron ore, 26,000 tons more. I've seen how long before Monica screams. Why are you doing this to me? And the Edmonds Fitzgerald rate empty. I gave you so many verses and you're still going. Well, it's just such a good song. And it's also 13, 14 minutes long. That's the best for karaoke. Just to fucking make everyone nuts. I used to always do Grandma Got Run Over by a Reindeer just because it's so long. Is it that long? It's not short. Oh, wow. Yeah. Like this is not the season. And also...

It's like 12 minutes long and there's no real exciting high saying. Yeah, it's kind of vaguely funny, but not funny. Well, it's funny you'd say that because my party trick when I was an alcoholic was to play Edmunds Fitzgerald for karaoke, but sing the lyrics of Piano Man.

He's talking with Davey who's still in the Navy and probably will be for life. Isn't that confusing? I know. My brain just fritzed. Yeah, as did the folks at the bar. Did your pants explode again? Oh, my God. My pants were like...

Wait, I have a question about the hoarding. Was your house that you grew up in when your mom was there also like that? Yes, he had tendencies. So there's always like a trying to push it somewhere. Like if you open up the trunks of any of these cars, it was like, whoa. And my mom was definitely like, this is a funny story. When they were in counseling at some point, the therapist was like, why don't you try this?

taking one hefty bag a week, filling it with stuff, putting it on the tree lawn to throw it away. And he just didn't do it. And my mom was like, what a bag. And he was like, oh, it's a metaphor, Karen. He would not do it. No, it's literal, motherfucker. I went to find my dollhouse in there. It's a metaphor. And I opened, it was like Silence of the Lambs. I took this sheet off and my childhood dollhouse was like hoarded with other dollhouse furniture. Oh!

That was not my furniture, I know. He just kind of saw it and he's like, well, that'll pair nicely. But I think also, like, isn't there a thing about it's easier to be with inanimate objects than with people? Yeah. So I had like a sensitivity as he got older. At the beginning, I was like, what is happening? Because he kept saying it was for us, which was like, again, Swedish art of death cleaning. Instead of saving anything, he would just...

Once I started having empathy, he would say like, this is an original da-da-da. And we were like, clearly not. In his will, he just gave it all to me. To you, you're the steward of all. All of it. Your brothers are completely liberated from this. Completely liberated.

God, it's all me. Wow. So it's been a process, but I've had dear family in Cleveland. And also then it's been a real amazing exercise in truly surrendering because I'm here. They're there. I get stuff sent to me. Most of it's broken. That's another chapter of letting go. This is not mine. Do you yourself have any hoarder tendencies? Yes, you do. I have a little bit of

fashion hoarding. Yeah, me too. That's the problem. The line between collector and hoarder is... So that's an interesting thing that I have to look at. Yeah, but you look so cute. Look at your purse. It's like it's working. I mean, your pants don't work, but they do look great. No, I mean, my pants clearly need to be fast-paced. But then I'm also like so unsentimental with stuff. I will throw away things. When the kids were young, it was a little gaslighting because they'd be like, where's that...

thing of foil that I had scrunched over and I was like, oh. By the way, that's parent 101. You're like, how much of this shit can I throw away? Because 99% of it they're not going to notice. I know. Because it's just crap. But you don't know the one thing that you do is precious. That foil crumple is their baby. Yes. Yes. And then you threw away their baby. Delta's never been to a parking lot where she didn't get some souvenir rocks from it.

We would have like a gravel pit in the backyard if we weren't getting rid of these rocks at some point. What's going to be the one that they really remember? You don't know. I don't know anything about it, despite having watched maybe an episode of Hoarders. Do you know the explanation for what's going on? I wish I knew more. My gut from him, it's an addiction. There's got to be like a dopamine release once you have the object. And the idea of it becoming a part of your identity...

So the idea of letting it go feels very vulnerable. And you think you're in control. We would always talk about my dad would be one of those guys on Hoarders that would be all into it at the beginning, would be like, of course. And then he would have a freak out as he saw the dumpster. It would panic him.

Yeah. I think it becomes a part of who you are. Feels like you're being thrown away. There's a revisionist history about this. I forget which episode, but there is something about the psychology around it. I think it is they associate each item with a memory, but more than most of us, more than this generation.

concert ticket. It's like this rock means something extra. And he also had like a money situation. He always wanted to appear really wealthy. His brothers were really successful, everyone in his family, and he just couldn't quite get it together. He was infamously, we don't want to use the word cheap, but he was very frugal. He would pick up the cake at Baskin Robbins that no one wanted that had someone else's name. Happy birthday, Charles. For my mom.

And he thought it was funny. And it was funny. Yeah. But he was also being serious. So your mom's still with us. Yes. So I got to be delicate about this. But of course, you're bummed when your parents get divorced when you're 30. But at the same time, I imagine your mom was like, I'm going to

get buried under all that's a lot to live oh a hundred percent i love kristin but i would not sit in a house and get buried alive because i love her maybe i'd stay married during just move next door and go you're not allowed in here with your objects i know or give her a room that would never work i know in a weird way that gave him an allowance to just explode there's no speed bumps for his progression he doesn't have to negotiate i mean but she like just left

It probably was very, for her... Cleansing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Is her space right now very minimalist? It's not as minimalist as you would think, but it is hers completely. It's beautiful. You know, it's this cute apartment in Cleveland Heights. It's the sweetest. But our home was very normal-sized, and then there'd be this enormous brass sculpture in the corner that was like...

out of place. Uh-huh. Like this grand piano that no one could use. Were you embarrassed growing up or did you not care? No, but this has been such a process of like mourning this guy, my dad, this guy. Because I think we all just kind of made fun of each other without really taking care. That was kind of our way of

dealing with it. Like we kind of made fun of his stuff. He would like laugh about it. My mom was vicious. We all kind of gave it hard, but it was like this weird David Lynch. I don't know what the opening of Blue Velvet was. It's like this beautiful exterior and you take the rock off and it's just a little like maggot. They had this secret. Yeah.

Okay, great. Okay, great. We went hard on each other too. And I have had to really police myself to not do that to my kids. Have you had that too? So much. I have like a little shame. Same, same, same. And what's helpful, and I thank my sister for this so much as my sister's around so much, that I'm actually more able to observe her doing it

And when I observe her doing it, I realize, oh, I do it too. So one of the things is any of the kids do something that's kind of insane. My first reaction is to laugh. And it's our way of saying, I saw you fuck up. But I'm also not saying I saw you fuck up. I'm just laughing. And my daughter said, like, I hate when you laugh and Titi does too. And I'm like, oh, yeah, we do that. I gotta fucking stop laughing.

That's like my G-rated version of how I use it, but I have a very hard time shaking that. It's difficult. I still, if someone trips on something, I just immediately start laughing. Yeah, me too. Ethan, my husband's like, Jesus. Kristen too. She's like, it's not funny. She does not like it. She doesn't like it. But it's difficult. I like it though. I know. I know, me too. But also the older one gets, it starts to feel like...

What am I acting out? It's maladaptive. And also you recognize, oh, there's something under this. I'm dealing with this in a weird way. It's not good. Do you feel now that they're getting older?

that you are meeting yourself at their age, like all the time? Absolutely. The way I've been framing it is I have such a detailed story that explains why I am the way I am. And yet my children are having this completely opposite childhood. And one in particular is so much like me that I'm actually having to like completely dismantle the story. Like I blame my parents and I blame my environment for these things. And I'm like,

No, I'm genetically that way because my little girl is the same. Now, she'll create her own story probably. Yeah. But I'm really aware of that it's a big old story and probably I'm really genetically 80% of who I am. But I've had to realize they're not an extension of me at all. They're completely their own people, which is very difficult to do. At the beginning, you look at this creature and you're like,

I've known you forever. And also you're a complete stranger. Like it's the weirdest feeling. They always existed. Isn't that weird? And I'm an atheist and I don't believe in anything, but yes, my kids have always existed. But I definitely have felt the older they're getting that the way I communicate with them is,

is somehow how I wished I had been able to communicate and it's not fair on them. Because it was a completely unknown approach for you, right? It hadn't been modeled. Yeah, I didn't know how to do it. I think I overdid it at the beginning. I mean, sobbed when his umbilical cord freaking fell off. I would just like stare at him sleeping. I was like, oh my God. And my daughter too. And so it took a second.

Yes, I think the ego really, really gets a workout when you have kids. And I'm not even consciously trying. I'm trying to give them everything I think I didn't get.

And so, A, they don't even need that because they're in a completely different environment, right? So it's like I'm trying to heal some wounds they don't have. Yes. They're my wounds and I've got to go heal those and leave them the fuck out of it, which is hard. It's so hard. It's weird. My son is about to be a senior and my daughter is going to be a sophomore. And I remember thinking childhood lasted forever. Forever.

Looking at the eighth grade boys being like, oh, never get it. And now all that's behind them. It's like, done.

It was five seconds for us. That's the other lesson you learned, is that this thing, the whole foundation of my personality and all my isms were created in a very tiny amount of time. And the whole rest of my life, I'm dealing with this tiny sliver of time. I know. What a fucking crazy situation. It's the craziest. It was crazy to go to that concert, which was amazing. But to hear music from when I was their age and hear her and sit next to my daughter, time was like, whoa.

It was so crazy. Don't you find too, the experience of being the parent and becoming middle-aged, for me, it scares me. It's like, yeah, no one ever knew what they were doing.

The people ahead of me that were adults that were supposed to have wisdom, I'm them. I barely have myself figured out where I'm functional. Me too. Barely. Barely. Yes. Oh, yeah. So no one knew. I thought I had it and it started to fall the fuck apart. Guess what? Your grandparents didn't know. It's a miracle this place continues to just self-perpetuate. Everyone thinks the future is better. You know, we were better than the generation before. And we are in so many ways. But I don't know.

We're also the same. Yes. Yeah. Is that really historically accurate? What is better? Yeah, what does it even mean? It's interesting to me. What are our values? There are lots of metrics we can look at and there are objective things that are better. No, but all that is in a weird way ignoring...

What is the human experience and has that changed? Has that gotten better? Yes, less poverty, higher literacy rates. We watched the late night talk shows from the 80s that we grew up on it. And you're listening to these monologues and you're like, oh my God, this was horrendous. And I didn't even know. Calling Monica Lewinsky up. I don't even want to say it out loud.

Yeah. Yeah. The shit that you could just say on network TV. So in many ways, it's gotten better. But the internal experience of a human on planet Earth, I don't know. Interesting. I'll tell you one thing that must be better. I read a ton of historical stuff. We haven't had a president in the White House that hadn't lost several children. I mean, that was just fucking standard bits, right? Like Lincoln entered with one dead child and one died while he was in office.

Yeah, that's weird. If you or I lost a child, that's the last time you'd ever see me. Me too. So that's one way I'll go like, fuck man, life's gotten a hell of a lot better. It was standard. You'd lose one or two of your five children. I can't comprehend that. Do you think love was different back then? I do. I do. You must not have been able to live like we live now if that was happening every other day.

I guess it's this idea of being better people that we're better than the last generation. We're not as racist. We're not as sexist. We're not as homophobic. We're inching closer. Yeah, to the great sunrise. Yeah, the self-actualized human. And then the AI will come in. Oh, God. Good night. Maybe he'll show us how to do it. Maybe he'll be good. Maybe he'll be good. We won't have jobs and we'll just sit in the pool. Oh, God. That sounds. And that sounds fun. I mean, that does kind of sound awesome. I know. I was talking about that and I was like,

There's something called retirement. Okay, great topic for us. Because we're the same age. Yeah, and we look so fucking good. You both look great. You look great. I mean, as I pop my buttons seven times. Really, everyone looks great. If I'm at a hotel bar and I'm single and you stroll in...

Just watch out. Let's chat. Let's chat. Let's see what's going on. Let's have some Chex Mix. Where are you from? I like your vibe. How did you come to it? Like, oh my God, where'd you get that tattoo? Fugazi? What? Where'd you get that tattoo? It's such a funny. Where'd you find that tattoo? Where'd you get that tattoo? Not what is that tattoo, but where'd you get it? And I would go, I can't even remember. And you'd be like, ooh, how intriguing. Yeah. Yeah. He's got a past. Oh, do you have memory loss too? Yeah.

I put a bit. Do you also have short-term memory loss?

You're from Ohio. I'm from Michigan. I'm sorry, Monica. We vacationed at Cedar Point. Yeah, we did. It comes up so often. I know. I love it. I love it. Nothing comes up more than Cedar Point on this show. We did one back-to-back days where both people said the exact same thing for 10 minutes straight. It was so, so funny for me. We didn't go this year. I haven't been. I have a whole fantasy. Can I let you go on my fantasy? Please. I want to big time it there once. I never slept in one of those hotels. The Breakers. Did they have a Breakers there? The Breakers is on later.

On Lake Erie with all the porch chairs on the front, the rocking chairs. Didn't even know the name of it. Okay. We only went there a few years ago. I'll tell you something about the Breakers, and this was about seven years ago. We had a family reunion, and so we had a house on the Sandusky Strip that a lot of cousins were in, and then we stayed at the Breakers for a night, which was so fancy. Kind of smells a little always like mold from the lake. Like those covers that go right over the bed perfectly. Yeah. And they kind of are a little bit stiff. But that...

Very high-end. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

Very high end. G-G-I-F, we always go to right there. And everything. Appetizer, salad. You mean Friday's, the chain restaurant? Yes. Wow. Okay. Yes. Breakers has their own breakfast room. My kids are like, when do we go back to Student Point? Yeah, yeah. Mine haven't been, which is shameful. So we're both from there. You inherit an architecture, which is everyone that I grew up with had jobs that were really fucking hard on your body. You had to retire. The retirement didn't even have to be good. It was just the absence of this

painful, repetitive. And so it made a ton of sense because you didn't love your job to begin with. You love the folks you work with, but you didn't like assembling transmissions. And so-

That's the blueprint for me. And I wrestle with it nonstop. It didn't even occur to me as an actor that I could retire. Right. No, you just do it. Until you die on set. Until they kick you out. Yeah, exactly. Until they send you to pasture. Yeah. Hopefully you're on a show, you die on set, and you get a little episode dedicated to you. And that's the dream. You're at an in-memoriam. Yeah, maybe. Show.

Maybe. Not that I would. I don't like this combo. Yeah, no, no. No, no, no, no, no. Why did we go so dark? Because we like Fugazi. And Suzie and the Banshees. I wouldn't say the Banshees. But we went to, I was once on a plane with Kevin Bacon, who I love. We were like on the tiniest plane. And we were like, oh my God, if anything were to happen, it would be like Kevin Bacon and. And others. And others. I know. That's the scary thing about being on so much. But thank God everyone's okay.

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

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I made this joke. Colin Hanks and I were on this 15, 20 foot tall scissor lift as judges on a cooking show. Why? It was one of these come guest judge. No, but why the scissor lift? Oh, because you had to sit way up high above all the cooking stations. And look at it happening. And it was so fucking wobbly. And we were up there and it was just swaying back and forth like three feet. And I said, you know, when this motherfucker comes down, the headline's going to say, son of Tom Hanks and husband of Kristen Bell die in scissor lift. Man.

Monica's like, I don't like this at all. I'm so scared of this conversation. She's like, I don't like it. Sometimes when you say it out loud, then you can do like. Yeah, that's true. I mainly just make him knock on wood a lot. That works for me. This is almost worn out. Yeah, that area. This area. I'm like, I have no wood nearby me. I know. We need to fix that. That's on us. Okay. I did have some things written down. I knew I didn't need to because you can feel it. You know, I don't.

I know. You were one of my favorite episodes the first time we had you. We were babies. A lot's changed. A lot has changed. Monica. Yeah.

Your presence is so imperative. Thank you. That's really sweet. It's so awesome to see how that is like morphed. You guys are just the fucking best. It's really awesome. And you, Rob, over there, you guys are awesome. You have no idea. If you saw the thing he built downstairs, he's a fucking genius. Oh, he was saying it. Oh my, it's insane. It's so pretty. And I'm so excited you're doing that. Can I even say that out loud? Oh, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We need more people to say it. Experts on experts on video. Check it out.

I'm so excited. All the sexy professors and biologists. No, but those are kind of becoming like, we were talking about the sociopath, narcissism, Munchausen, that whole like chapter. OCD. We got like four babies. Those four were really rich. Oh, you heard those? Yes. Oh, wonderful. That was like my summer just driving. I didn't want them to end. I don't either. We're looking for more isms. I love how they talk to each other weirdly. Yeah. A hundred percent. There's so much overlap. That's so good. You heard the sociopath. Yeah.

Yes. There's so much follow-up for that, by the way. Yes. I came to learn she was in the Groundlings, in the Sunday Company, and she hadn't told me that.

During the interview. Weird. Or maybe she just didn't connect. Maybe she was just nervous. Oh, yeah, yeah. There's a million options. She's also a sociopath, literally. I mean, that's what I'm saying. It's so fascinating. I know. Was she in it? She 100% was because a friend of mine reached out and goes, I was in the Sunday company with Patrick. And I was like, oh, my God, I've got to like re-examine. I've never had an experience that I have played back in my mind more times because I've

The premise is I'm a sociopath. So admittedly, who knows what's coming? Endlessly fascinated by that experience. I was fascinated by her husband. Yeah. Yes. And what he's had to manage and how to have a relationship with her. Yeah.

A thousand percent. Like what he's not going to get, that he may not even get the love. Well, that was her point. He liked a woman at work. And she's like, of course you do. She has love in this version you're looking for. So interesting. Makes me doubt everything. So the only time I've seen you since that interview is we've bumped into each other at Formula One races, which has been a fun thing.

Oh my gosh. How many did you go to? I only went to the one. You only went to the one. In Miami. And you were a guest of Williams, right? Yes. And I wore every piece of paraphernalia they gave me to a degree that was embarrassing. I did this exact same thing as you in Austria as a guest of Williams. I was in like a hat and a shirt and hand, you know, jewelry. I was like a visor. I looked

like a walking, like if they had a mascot, I would be like the walking dog mascot for Williams. Chili's or whatever. Yeah, it was like embarrassing. Some guy did a double take. He's like, who's the crazy lady walking around with all Williams? Here's what he thought. He's like, okay, great. She loves Williams. She went to the souvenir counter. She bought everything. They were out of bags. So she had to wear everything so she wouldn't be carrying these individual items. They were so nice. They're the nicest. Bex. Do you remember Bex? Oh, I want to go

Hang out with them. Yeah. Delta fell head over heels in love with Bex, was hugging her the entire race. She was so rad. Leonard was speechless. This is your son? Yes. How old is he at the time? 15. So he was like deep in it. He had the bug. And we had just watched the Senna and the Schumacher documentaries back to back. I was also in. Trying to survive. Yeah.

We hadn't really gotten into it. Just sent it in Schumacher, Doc. Yeah. Oh, this is interesting. But I do want to go into that show. You haven't watched it. It's so good. That's why I like F1. Okay. I just love the drama and the wealth. The two together, because one was just go-karts, and the other came from such thoroughbred money. So it's very interesting. And you saw the accident from different points of view. They're mostly all rich, though. Yeah. I had an F1 podcast for a year, and we would do Zipf.

zaddies of F1, so the dads of the drivers. And with very few exception, they're all pretty rich. It's such an intense thing to put your kid into. I wanted very much for Lincoln to go that route because I'm like, of course, back to the healing yourself. I wanted a go-kart. I wanted to race. Couldn't afford it. I'm like,

girl, you got a turnkey. I'll get in the tour bus and we'll go to every single race. You'll have the fastest go-kart. Let's do it. Wasn't for her. I had to just move on. She ripped the bandaid off for you, at least. But we also went to that driving school, which was so rad in Arizona. I took my son and a couple of friends and I couldn't believe-

What they just did. You rode passenger with one of the pros, I imagine, and got like a hot lap. I did that. But then they were able to do like a little thing that was so fast. And I don't think they had their driver's licenses yet. I'm not going to be sure. Yeah. They had like a trainer. There was whatever guy in the thing with them. Kids are racing before they have licenses. Before they have licenses. That's true. Yeah. Max?

Verstappen entered Formula One a week after his 17th birthday. So he'd already been racing. I guess that's how you do it before the fear sets in. That kind of fear. Did you see that documentary called? I love a doc. Us too. Well, first of all, Chimp Crazy, which is out right now. No, no. Chimp Crazy. Chimp Empire people. No, the people that did King of Tiger King. Oh, Tiger King. Oh,

Oh. So it is. King of Tigers. So it's called Chimp Crazy? Yeah, I watched the first episode last night. It's on HBO and it is pretty good. Oh, I'm excited. Can't wait. Yeah. Just from the title, I'm guessing. People and chimps. Yeah, people want to own chimps and they're very dangerous. They turn. Especially if they're male. Yes. They're your children. You diaper them. And then they eat your face one day. Is it mainly women or men? Sorry to gender it. Women. Women.

Yeah, women love- No, they do this with tigers too. Yeah. It's like the baby of it. Yeah. And the need. Well- Or a husband. Is it that? There's two things I think. Oh. Because I watched Fatal Attraction, Stories of Women and Large Cats. This was on a different network. Oh.

There's all these women who own like tigers and lions. And of course they all get eaten by them. I think it's attempt to repair having lived with a very crazy dad who was dangerous and threatening. And I think there's some desire to like soothe and whisper to this clearly wild and lethal animal, like just repeating the trauma. Having control over it. They're very stern people.

Yeah. Just like, no, no, no, Tonka. Tonka. Very stern. But it's hardcore. I bet. I think it's also connected to yours. I think it's a little bit like if this animal that is meant to hurt people doesn't hurt me, then I'm lovable.

Yeah. Yes, that's a great one, Monica. And that's the thing you relate to. Yeah, I do. Yeah, because we have a dog that bites people, but he doesn't bite Monica. No, he bites me twice. Oh, Frank. Yeah, I like that. Yes. She likes that Frank bites other people. Yeah. Yeah. We have Banjo, who's kind of the similar way. Like some people freak him out. Some people don't. Half Chihuahua, half Pitbull.

pit bull. Oh, he's got the neuroses of a chihuahua jumps on your lap with full force pit bull face. Oh, that's a lot. He's got chihuahua in there. I love him so much. That sounds like a very scary combination because if I had to sum up chihuahuas, I would just go like, oh, they think they're pit bulls. They're so aggressive and they're barking so loud, but thank God they're not pit bulls. But in this case, Andy is a pit bull. Oh, but he's also

A lot of bark, no bite. He's such a dingo. Yeah, that's how ours. Like he's just got such an aggressive butthole. You know what I mean? Like the tail is always up. And you're just, ah, get out of my face. Banjo, that's a disarming name. Yes. It is.

It is. It's a goofy instrument. He is kind of a bancho. Bancho. Bancho. But he's the kind of dog that would like, as it's coming out of another dog, he'll just be like, like softy. Okay. Eating shit. Beta. Oh, he'll eat the, right, yeah. Yeah. They don't mind that. Yeah, they really don't. I'm like, you guys, that's

In fact, we seem to be the only animal that does mind it. It's really curious. What do you mean? I watched a video of an elephant. Do you think other animals don't like? Oh, they don't care about each other's shit. I saw an elephant. That's not because they're missing nutrients? That's a good question. Well, that's a good explanation. But I saw an elephant put his trunk up another elephant's butt, pull out an enormous clump of dung, and then eat it. That was a video. Maybe he was impacted.

But you don't need to then eat it. That's one thing to help a guy out. Right, right. But you don't need to eat it then. No, you don't. And then the chimps are chucking it and they're playing with it and they're eating it. This is the best conversation I've had. Dogs eat it. Everyone seems really cool. With it. Every animal, except for us, we're peculiar. Well, aren't we?

we doing fecal implants now? Yes. In fact, maybe we're paying the price for not eating each other's. But it's a very controversial. The fecal implant. Yes. Not if you have C. diff. You're putting someone else's microbes into your situation. You are. And hopefully they're the ones that are going to get rid of C. diff. Match them up. You can't just have self-serve. It's nuts, right? You're not supposed to.

To do a fecal transplant or eat a crapsule from someone who has depression. Well, that's fucking fascinating. I am really interested in that. That would be really interesting if you found someone to talk about that. The connection between gut and brain health. Well, and your stomach's making all the serotonin. We just learned this from a different expert. So yeah, if your gut's all fucked up, but your gut's the one in charge of making serotonin, that's interesting. You're right. We should have a crapsule gut biome. That would be great.

All right, put it on the list. Crapsule expert. Do you want to be here for that? Do you want to join us? I would love to be here. Because it sounds like you have a few questions right on the- I have so many questions. I have them right at the tip of my tongue.

Yeah, we'll get you in here for that. I would seriously love that. You're invited. Because I really do think it affects your mood and your brain. Also, there's some links between obesity and the gut health. Also, neurological disease. Yes. It's very fascinating. Mitochondria. Brain fog? We'll ask about that. You know, we were hot on this trail about five years ago because I'm like, can I get rid of my psoriatic arthritis through this? And we all decided we wanted our friend Amy's poop. In fact, she was the only person in the pod whose poop we thought

This doesn't seem to have any of the issues. I mean, I'm upset. You were hurt. I'm offended. But you have depression. Yeah, I would be. Don't you want people to pick your poop? You have epilepsy, though, Monica. I know. I have two problems. Two strikes. Yeah, two big strikes. But when did you get diagnosed with epilepsy? In 2020. I've only had two seizures, so it feels like a little bit of a stretch that they diagnosed it as that. Yes. But also...

Why not? They know. I'll take it. Nip it in the bud. I'll take it. Yes. So yeah, I've just been on medication since. Yeah. Because I've had some depressive really all of a sudden, and I know it has something to do with hormones. I'm just curious about all of this connection. Yeah. Not to get too personal. We're moving into menopausal zone. Yeah. Carrying. Oh, for sure. I'm curious about all of it. Have you looked into hormone replacement? Oh, that's happened. Okay, great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And was it helpful?

I'm on hormones, by the way. Yeah. It's like a moving target. I wish that's another thing that would be interesting. I'm good. Like pitching. I having someone talk about menopause would be so a lot of people want us to do that because there's a couple of women that are starting to talk about it, but it used to be so not only like career ending in a weird fucking way, which is so dumb, but also just one size fits all hormones. My mom's told me like the hormone replacement she had was from pregnant women.

Horse piss. What? And that's when all those strokes happen. Oh, my God. Isn't that ridiculous? Yeah. That's not good. Now at least there's like natural stuff. Mine's grown from a yam. I used to do the wild yam cream. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yam. Purple yams. Listen. Those are very healthy. They're very healthy. I've seen the Blue Zone. Yep. Blue Zone chart full of purple yams. Purple yams. Wow. Purple yams.

Purple yams. Have you read that Miranda July book? Yes. I was just about to ask her that. Crazy, right? I loved it. I've passed it to a bunch of friends. I loved reading something that feels somewhat radical that is also like the truth. I know. It just feels...

It just feels like... I know. I kind of love that material-wise. I feel like women haven't been able to show those feelings or those urges or desires that are like kind of off the... They feel taboo. Yes. And also I love the feeling that it was never satisfied. It was like desire, desire, desire, desire, but like she never...

Got that final chord. Yeah. I always describe it. It's like moving to me. So moving. As a coming of age story, becoming a middle age story. Well, they say that as second adolescence is like going through this change. And it's weird to be going through this at the same time as my daughter is going through hers. So it is hormone hotbox.

Oh, yeah. In our house. The boys are just like, anyway. We're going to go to a baseball game for two days. For two days. No one talks about it. I would love it because also I think it is sexy and interesting and dangerous because it happens. Yeah. And there's like a freedom to it. Yes. It's not something like a shy away from. Yeah. Think about how many...

heroes in film and television we've had that are male who are having affairs. And they're still our hero, like Tony Soprano and Mad Men. Name them. I can't, off the top of my head, think of the female protagonist who's our hero who's also having lots of affairs. It's really kind of under, it's like ignored. That's a bad woman who does that. I kind of did that in this show called I Love Dick with Kevin Spacey.

I'm Kevin Bacon. You're not canceled. Oh my God, you guys. No, you're canceled. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. My brain fogged. I'm glad we had you. It's brain fogged. My brain fogged. I shouldn't talk to

- Anybody with a microphone. - I mean Weinstein. I know, I mean, produced by, no. - Yeah, you really need crapsules, I think, to clear up the spa. - You guys. - Did you know there was a diving team? No, was it a diving team? No, it was just two. - Oh, Catherine. - In the Olympics, there was two competitors in the lineup and one's last name was Harvey and the last name was Weinstein. - Like in the lanes when it's cold. - Wait, seriously? - Yeah, it's Harvey Weinstein. - Oh my God, that's incredible. - So funny. - Okay, sorry, back to menopause.

steamy topic. Menopause. It is. But it is. I know. But it's good for men to hear because men go through it too. Isn't that like crisis? Oh God, yes. I've been in it for a decade. But I think I was hinting around this the last time I interviewed you. But of course, I am both thrilled for you and Ethan, your husband. What a victory story. You guys have been together for what? 30 years. 30 years. Yeah. That is the dream and it's awesome. And also I'm like, I am extra sympathetic to you

to dudes I know who are really young and get sober. Because like when they hit 40 and they got sober at 20, how much are you just going like, well, fuck, I was also just 20. I was crazy, period. I don't know if that was my personality. You know, and in a similar way, it just feels compounded to have been with someone for 30 years. It's great. And I'd imagine as you're reading this book...

I don't know. I feel like that's the way to do it is you have to have that at least mental imagination open door at all times because it doesn't happen that you're acting on anything, but it just keeps that awake and alive. Right. Which I think is vital. You know, I know he does too. It's just imperative. It's not to say we haven't been married and divorced like nine times within our 30 years. There's been long chunks of time where we were like, oh, yeah.

I don't know. That's helpful that you said that. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Don't you think there's this really fascinating thing on the other side of it, which is at the beginning, you're in love. There's great hormones. You're building, building, building. Then you've built all the stuff. Then there's all this stuff. Then you have the lows. Then you have, oh, what are we doing? Now we have kids. The weird new kink is almost like going, oh, wow. And we're still together. I know. That becomes its own.

momentum and intriguing aspect, right? And like, oh my God, I've known this body for this long? That beginning period, of course, it's like pheromone hot. You guys are also like 20? Like 18, 19. And you kind of also in that phase are hidden. You're showing off a different side of yourself. Then there's that next phase in which it takes a while, but when you actually are who you really are and you're changing, can I still look at you differently?

and see the person you are now? Or am I constantly, is that another story? Am I like looking at you and telling the same story, projecting who I think you are? Right. I mean, honestly, I'd like going out of town, but we like a little MDMA.

Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. But like two or three times a year. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just to be like, whose lips are these? Yeah. I remember lusting after you. This is fun. Apparently that's like a couple's therapy, you know. Prescription. I mean, it wasn't like prescribed. No, I know. Michael Pollan has said that.

Yeah, we had Michael Pollan on and we said like, what would be your dream drug schedule? Or like, what is your drug schedule? And he said, well, first of all, I'm not saying I do drugs because it's still illegal. But I would do shrooms on my birthday every year to reflect on my year and where I'm going. And then I would do MDMA once a year with my wife to rekindle our intimacy.

Yes. And I would do toad medicine when I was in my 70s. What's toad medicine? Is that where you lick the Amazonian frog? No, you take it. It's supposed to be a 15-minute straight shot. Mike Tyson talks about it. Oh. Michael Pollan did not love it. Okay. But he tried it. But he tried everything. Yeah, wow. I would love to do something like that when I was an old lady. You'd be driving your little rascal in circles.

Do you think they should leave you in your little rascal or take you out? Probably take you out. You could drive it up. I would hope that I would be under enough medical supervision that someone would have me laying in my little nest. Yeah, you'll be comfy. Yeah. You're pram. My pram! You'd be in a pram. I would love to be in a pram. Yeah, who wouldn't? It's so elevated in English. You're kind of in one right now. And I feel like I am. Last question before we talk about Agatha all along. And this is just, I want you to gossip about this person. Oh!

Because I find him very intriguing. Daniel Craig. Oh, I love him. He is so freaking funny. He is one of my favorite humans on the planet. And have you stayed in touch with him? Is he that kind of guy? Yes. We have a big text chain from Glass Onion, which we would continuously troll him and Ryan about this new cast. I feel like, how's that going? They're doing a third, I guess. Yeah, they're just wrapped. I love those movies.

I know I do too. And their new cast is awesome, but he's just the best. I'm still want to get dinner with him and Rachel, but I think you would love him. Like he's a good egg. He surrounds himself with good peeps. And he's not Bond, right? He's very far from Bond. Like a knock around guy, like a blue collar real dude. Yes. And his eyeballs are the Mediterranean sea. No.

If the Mediterranean had all the secrets of the universe lying within. Yeah, I'm very intrigued by him. He was staying at the same hotel as us when Kristen was working in England. And a friend of ours bumped into him in the gym a couple times. I almost want to spend the entire day at the gym hoping I would bump into him. I want to just watch him work out. I love his body. Him coming out of the water in those blue shorts. I'll never forget it for that Bond trailer. Yeah. What a guy. Everyone in the cast I love. Dave Bautista, one of my also. He's a sweetheart, right? All the time. Yeah. Big, softy.

- Counterintuitive, a vegan, right? Is he a vegan?

Or do you see him taking down chickens? I don't know. Okay, why would you care? That's something I would care about and not you. Mixed messages. It's true. It is, right? He has a lot of dogs. Oh, he does? Yeah, he's a real animal lover. Those two pieces of information, I feel like I could put together a whole story about them. It's good to just put stories together using pieces of information from various sources and then say, nailed it. That's why I make a terrible detective. Once I decided who was guilty, nothing could convince me otherwise. I think

Both of you would make good detectives. Ding, ding, ding. Detective. But like, why does a boy get so big? Right away, you got to ask a question. Any one of us who put in way too much time getting big. Why? I know for me, why? I think that he was maybe born with that, you know. Not that big, though. There's a lot of effort. Well, he was in the Vince Vaughn stuff. Not Vince Vaughn. Oh, my God, you guys. I shouldn't do any more podcasts.

Vince McMahon. He was a WWE. I was like, WME. William Morris Endeavor. Wrestling organization. He was with them. This is his own story. But he was in that for a while. Oh, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But any boy that ended up in the WWE, they were in that gym and they were in that gym a lot. That's interesting. That's a lot of effort. It's very interesting. Did you ever see that Andre the Giant documentary? One of my favorites of all time. Oh my. I love it so much. Do you have a favorite moment? Because I do.

Oh, and the fart. Thank you. When they talk about the fart. The fart. But it's the way... He took a fart. It's the way... He took a fart. He did.

When Andre would take a fart. It was Mean Gene, the announcer. And he said, take a fart. Meaning like when you take a dump. That's how big it was. He had to take a fart. 400 times. Wait, did you hear that weird story that he grew up in the same French town as Samuel Beckett was staying in and Samuel Beckett would take him to school? No. Yes. Come on. That's a fact check though. It could be wrong. That's a fact and check it. It's a fact.

As soon as it came out of my mouth, I was like, I'm not sure. A zillion different things. We'll revisit that. Okay. Okay. Now, in my research of you today, I didn't realize this at all happened because I've just known you the whole ride. And of course, no, I'm going to say one more thing before we get to it. Oh. Do you realize every single thing you do is based on a book? This just popped out at me. And I'm like, is that intentional? I love Dick based on a book. Mrs. Fletcher based on a book. I know this much is true based on a book.

tiny, beautiful things based on a book. And of course, the thing we worked on together, This Is Where I Leave You, based on a book. Is this intentional or is this just happening to you? It's definitely not intentional. And have you noticed that? I've noticed I've had a lot of long titles in my career. Okay, that's what you noticed.

Maybe because there is an inherent juicy arc that's already baked into it somehow that when I read it, there's a confidence in it already. So is it chicken or the egg, though? This is another way it could be. It could be that you're attracted to that. I'm almost curious, what is it about something based in literature where the producers and the directors think of you? I think you might actually really innately...

like literary character. Does that make sense? Yes, I have a take. I think it's because when you have a book, a character is fleshed out so, so well. Like it's so detailed. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're a very real person with depth and complexity. And I think that's a good pairing. I totally agree. You seem very dense with real personality aside from show business. I think that's your appeal. Oh my God. You don't know how to comment on that. I also think that a lot of...

stuff had been directed by women in that particular chapter who were interested in exploring these women.

that I just happen to be at the age of, like, we just happen to, like, match up at this weird moment. I think there's, like, a depth to you that is very much a literary character more than, what do we know about Bond? He can kill people and fuck good. And he's got cool cars. How dare you? That's not to imply Daniel Craig doesn't have a depth to him. Also, aren't those books? They are, interestingly. But anyway, when you say literary, I imagine myself really,

Ian Fleming. No, but I hear you. I don't know. There is something interesting. It is suspicious. I haven't interviewed someone where their last seven projects were based on books. I know. That is interesting. Also, you work a lot. So part of it could also just be that you work all the time. They're going to be a higher. No. But no, because it's literally the last six or seven. But not Mr. and Mrs. Smith? What are you talking about? No, but I'm not Angelina Jolie. You're not? No. I'm so sorry. Are you in the new Mr. and Mrs. Smith? No. Oh, okay. Oh, okay.

What happened? I got confused. That's okay. That's okay. It's brain fog. Wait, who was it? Oh, listen, I know this. I'm scared. I know this really well. I do this sometimes when I'm interviewing people too. And I am humiliated. I'm always confused and flatteringly so with Anna Gasteyer. We always are confused with each other. That's 100%. Is it who it is? 100%. Oh my God, amazing. Okay. I can't believe I did that. People always, she will send me like pictures of Starbucks cups that say bad moms. Oh, nice. Like I love bad moms. But I love bad moms.

I know you, so this is a bummer. No, it's not. Don't worry about it. Life is weird. I guess we have to keep it in because you're all fallible. You have to keep it in. Do you want to go in the bathroom and self-flagellate for a second? Cry. Cry. Smack yourself in the mirror. Yeah, I do. The chair is too comfy. Do it in my face. Oh.

I want to see you atone. Wow, it's definitely her. Yeah, everyone asked me if I was in SNL. Also because you're funny. I'm very flattered. We both went to Northwestern. Wow. Okay, this feels like a Sim thing. Yeah. A little bit of it. 100% Litch. All right, well, that was embarrassing. I said Vince Vaughn. No wonder you think she works so much because you're seeing everything. You work a ton. She does, but also everything you see Anna Gaskin. You're also like, wow, she's in this too. So she thinks you're in like 13 projects a year. I do.

No, between the two of us, we have a pretty healthy body of work. Yeah. People ask me how I have time for the T-Mobile commercials. They're like, Zach Shepard is in... Why haven't you ever said, I'm Def Leppard joined by Santa Monica? Oh, I can do that. I'm always in the car mixing it up for myself. You're the only person that likes it. I'm always like...

Feels like home. Santa Monica, you've never done that one. You should add that in. Okay, I'll do it. And Def Leppard. I'll do all of them. And Def Leppard, yeah. Def Shepard. Okay, but what I was going to say before I got into these literary things, which again is very suspicious and interesting. We'll both mull that over. I have mulled wine. Hopefully I gave you a kernel of something to obsess about.

It's good. I need more to ruminate over. Yeah, good. I can relate. As I was up all night last night. Me too. My brain was just on fire. We had a long-term amazing assistant who just left on Friday with a day notice because she got a great job as the writer's assistant. I love her. I'm so excited for her. But it was definitely like, fuck. Monday? This sounds like a crazy problem to have. As I'm saying it, I'm just like, aww. Because I'm leaving. All of a sudden, all this press stuff is happening. Yeah, you have press. But it's all good. I'm excited for her.

That's so weird. I have the same thing. I think it's because of where we're from. It's weird because would you feel better about lying about what your life is? Which is like you're in 55 things you film all across the country. Yes, someone's got to pick up some of the big holes. It's hilarious that I still have a file fax and I still schedule everything myself because I'm kind of a control freak. Right.

Not a control freak, but I... You want to know what's going on. I spent my whole Sunday mopping my garage and... I know. What's wrong with us? Doing all this weird stuff. I was putting molding on my Roadmaster. But you like it. Feels grounded. What I like is how I feel after I do it. It's not like I enjoy doing it, but afterwards... But again, this is my story. I'm like... Even just making you feel grounded sounds like a douchey thing to say. Well... No, it does. You can't win. I can't. I'm a horrible person. I know. We're so hard on ourselves. Why are we so hard on ourselves?

ourselves but yeah I finished the whole thing and I have a blister on my thing I pulled my nail away from the bed yesterday I was bleeding on my thumb I have blisters all over my fingers and I go okay you kind of earned all this great luck you have today and I still don't feel like I really did I

Right? I almost think I'm atoning so it doesn't get taken. So last night, it spiraled from that to my dad's stuff to like all this stuff at once. It's very hard for me to compartmentalize and show up clear. That's why meditation, I'm really trying, which is probably the opposite of what one meditates, is to try. Try your hardest. No.

I'm going to fucking meditate. And then time feels very precious. Like a year left with my son at home just feels like, ooh. I'm very scared of that. But anyway, not a lot of sleep last night either. I would not describe myself as someone who has anxiety. That's not really my thing. I have other things. Funny enough, just during the day, I don't. But at night, I have tremendous anxiety while I sleep. I think it's because I'm afraid to be vulnerable, to like shut myself down. What could happen while I'm not paying attention?

My anxiety has gotten worse. Thank God for people you trust to talk to and also like therapists, a therapist. Yeah, it's not douchey if you have an assistant, but if you have many therapists. No, I know that's what I'm going to say. Like when I said therapists, like I choose which, no, yeah, exactly. I think a lot of accumulation of being away for a lot of my kids' life is starting to build up. So I don't want to put that on them. So I'm trying to like. Move through it all. See it, observe it. Love oneself. Experience it. You're a good girl. Yeah.

You are. You are. So are you. We're good people. I saw you in Miami with your kid. You put a lot of effort in that. You went to a driving school. You're a provider. You're a... Oh, my God. The breaker. That is the key somewhere. I'm not sure if I'm right on this, but the most vulnerable thing is to love oneself. To believe, yeah, you're worthy of loving yourself. It's really hard. It's really hard. Yeah. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

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They also offer 12-hour protection against leaks, which is a game changer. Get your baby's butt into the best-fitting diaper. Huggy's Little Movers. We got you, baby. Anyway. Tell me if you figured it out. I'm telling you something probably true that is the baseline, and I'm just figuring it out. No. Like, that is, like, the thing. I think most people struggle with that. It's hard. Speaking of therapists, you did play a therapist in Mr. and Mrs. Smith, just letting you know. Oh! Yeah, that was...

That was your role? Amazing. Yeah. And I learned a lot. Yeah, you did. These characters teach us so much. They do. Some people say that and they mean it. Okay. 25 minutes ago. I feel like I've probably said that before because I didn't know what else to say. No, also, it's kind of true. Well, that's another thing, right? Sometimes I'm like, bleh. I'm like, bleh.

Because I'm like, I don't want to reveal too much. No, but also, Dax, that's you being against being earnest. And it's also okay to be earnest sometimes if that's your truth. If you learn something. We learn stuff from our job all the time. Yeah, but we have pros come in. I learn stuff about myself based on our dynamic. Life is like that. Are you allergic to earnestness? I was. Although I always had it growing up in that kind of like... It's too vulnerable. But...

because there was a rage virus for a second, which was really counter to everything that I had been putting out there. And you're right. When I see earnestness in my children, it might be the most beautiful thing I witnessed. The most beautiful thing. You're so right, Monica. And then I go like, oh yeah, you can't let yourself do that. When I look my new chimp in the eyes...

Tonka? There's nothing. Yeah. The purity. The purity. See, there I am making a joke. No, but that was funny. Yeah, it was.

Okay. 60 minutes ago, I said in my research review today, I realized something I missed, which was WandaVision. What if you started talking about the books? I did. The literary. Oh, yeah. And I was on a loop. I would totally understand and have empathy and compassion. We'll revisit the books after this point. They've been trying to make forever. I didn't know that WandaVision was so enormous. I didn't either. It was a pandemic. And then this rash of interviews I read post-WandaVision have a...

a similar theme, which is like, you're a big star now, but you've always been, people are enamored with you and you're having a moment, which is crazy to me because you were like a lead of Bad Moms, which had sequels. I mean, you were outstanding in that movie. So the notion that you were having a moment from WandaVision struck me as interesting. And I just wonder if it struck you as interesting. Well, it was interesting because it was like one of those jobs that

I didn't know. We were not going to be the first out of the gate. It was supposed to be Falcon and the Winter Soldier, I think. It felt like this weird little stepsister. And it was met with such excitement that there was something different. And also, I think it was just perfect timing. It was...

So unique. And also it was made so well. It was a pandemic when it came out. And I'm not on social media. Congrats. Well, it started out as laziness and I'm kind of like, I just can't do it. I was going to say congrats too, but she has just as many anxiety and sleep issues as me. And then I thought, well, fuck it. Maybe it's not though. No.

I just think it's like being around. Just being human. And I really loved that part. It just felt like something clicked. It just felt easy. I love those characters in the Marvel movies. And so it was just easy. I knew nothing about Agatha, this centuries-old witch. So it was just a blast. And then seeing it together, I was like, oh, God.

It's a very cool show. I mean, I did the finale. All ADR, that last episode, was in my garage. Oh, wow. Because of COVID, like, I had to put up. Sound deafening. No, I wish. It was like moving tarps. Oh, sure, sure. Fernie pads. Fernie pads. Like, screaming. Holding for lawnmowers, like, right outside. Yeah, leaf blower. That was fun, though. So it was enormous. Is that the biggest tidal wave you've been on? I guess in terms of visibility and online chatter, that has been the thing. But

I've got a teenager who tells me how it just blows over in two seconds. So it's like, you know, you can't hold on to anything. Yeah, yeah. Because I'm constantly like, it's very demure. She's already like, that's done, mom. Yeah.

No. Just heard about it. That's all I got. As soon as I learned, too, it's over. It's over. It's sad. Like, yeah. Gotta go, guys. I don't know that one. Oh, yeah. I guess it's like, yeah, damn. But it's like, yeah. And that's from TikTok? I think so. How soon into that experience were they talking spinoff and...

Agatha having her own. Jack Schaefer, who wrote it, was like, we're not done yet. And I was like, oh my God, yes. And then it wasn't until it was a year. I was actually shooting Glass Onion when I got the phone call. I freaked out. It took a while to sink in because I was like, oh my God. And you're home for it too, right? Is that here? No, it was Atlanta. Oh, it looks so much like the Disney lot. Oh, we did shoot a little bit at Warner Brothers before they tore it down. My house was...

I guess I can say that. It was the Bewitched House. Oh, that's so cool. Wasn't that awesome? I love that. You should say that. Yeah, I know. That's cool. Yeah, it was a trip. Okay, so now Agatha Harkness has her own show.

which is Agatha all along, but there was a moment it was called Coven of Chaos. I don't know why we ditched that title. That's great. I know. I kind of like the Lion Witch with a great wardrobe. Oh. That was one that was out there for a second. And I also feel like there should be one that's just called Witch, Please. Oh, that's great. That's great. Or one that's called Britney Witch. Yeah.

It's Britney, which I wouldn't be surprised. So I watched three of them last night. Yeah, of course. What I was really excited about is Ali's in it. Do you know Ali? She is partnered up with William Jackson Harper. I love Ali. She's so good.

Rad. Did you meet her on this project or did you already know her? No, I met her on this project. We got to spend a little time in Atlanta with Will. He's a peach. They're both so freaking talented. And they're so authentic and real. I know. They're real actors. I really root for them as a couple. Me too. And then Kristen was flipping out that Patti LuPone was on it. That means the world to her. To all of us. Everyone on set was like,

Pompeii. Yeah. She's incredible. Lapone. Lapone, the wolf. Talk about force of nature. Icon. I wasn't in the theater. But there's a handful of people that Kristen, there's a deity on screen. She was like exploding with Lapone. No, I know. Spraying. She was spraying all over the screen. The whole cast in this, which is not very many people, is incredible. But it's all bad bitches. Yes. Yeah, because Aubrey's awesome. I love Aubrey. She's incredible.

It's funny. I loved her on White Lotus, and it's criminal to me that you haven't been on White Lotus. Again, back to the literary thing, you seem like the perfect White Lotus lead. Putting that out there. Oh, put it out there. Would you love to do a season of that? I think it would be amazing. Yeah, okay, great. We just got you that job. Thanks, you guys. I'll give you 2.5%. I'll give you a free set visit. Oh, yeah. To whatever fancy locale.

Okay, so set it up for us. We meet you. Mind you, I was unaware of the WandaVision spinoff of it all. So I'm really putting together what's happening. Yes. But we meet you and you're a detective. And you're a very detective-y detective. Deadly serious. Yes, very true detective. And then we find out you're under a spell. I have been under a spell for a long time. And so you're living in a kind of fantasy world. Yes. And what happens? And I've been stripped of my powers. We don't like that.

No. The beginning of it, there's almost like a rattle in this universe, this bubble of this town that something has happened. She becomes kind of a detective to try to figure out what is happening in this world. She's like the ultimate performer. She kind of morphs into whatever's needed, but she still doesn't know who she is at all. Yeah, it's kind of memento, kind of Jason Bourne. Yes. Certain people start to

puncture that. Yes. Oh, fun. Then it gets classic. She's got to round up some other witches and she thinks these are bozo witches. It's all outcasts. Yeah. Come together. Low expectations. Island of broken toys. In your adversary, the antagonist is Plaza. Yeah. We have a very intense past. I can't wait to find out what it is because in that first scene, I was like, are they lovers?

Who knows? But we definitely have a long past. Okay. And that's on Disney+. That comes out September 18th. Yeah. I can't wait for people to see it. Yeah. I'm really, really proud. It was one of the like toughest and most meaningful things I've ever done in my life. What was like the emotional connection that was happening or why did it feel special? Going down the road, like the only way out is through. It's almost a weird metaphor for menopause. 100%. Like what is it?

a witch. What is at the end of the road? What can you be proud of? What are your powers? It felt very powerful. Also like that a witch contains all ages of being a woman. Witches implicitly feminist. They were powerful women that men were afraid of. And other women were threatened by. Yeah. Yeah. They were persecuted. Yeah, it's a good metaphor. But I used to meet with a witch during the making of it who was amazing. We had like a Zoom. How do you authenticate that? She's a member of Wicca. That's how she defines herself.

She was into tarot, tarot, tarot, tarot, tarot chips. No, she's into tarot.

And the moon, astrology. It was incredible to keep grounded in that and not the kind of Disney idea of it. Containing the good and bad. Like, are you a good witch or bad witch? So this felt very like digging into the... It was fun. I'm excited. I'm a witch. You so are a witch. I love witchiness. I do too. She also sees a witch for her skincare needs. Yeah. I haven't seen her in a minute.

Wait, I want to hear about your skincare witch. I think she's a witch. She would not appreciate that verbiage that I gave her because she's quite religious. So I think she probably wouldn't like it. But she put the spell on Monica's face. Yeah, I think so. I mean, it looks incredible. She'll be doing, you know, her thing and she'll just touch it here. And then I look in the mirror. I'm like, the whole face is different. So she's pretending like she's doing stuff, but really she's doing spells.

And potions. That's what I think. And potions. And elixirs. Nothing like an eye of a newt. The dark arts. Yeah, exactly. The dark farts. The dark farts. Did you say that a lot on set? Yeah, of course. You're a good person. Catherine, I adore you. Oh my God, you got me.

Always. I don't know about six years between visits. No, can we not? It seems stupid. Especially because you've had 65 projects since then. I know. I think that there was a one time. Almost. Near miss. An almost near miss. Now, do you just have repeat people that come on and just say how excited they are for you? I'm thrilled. I'm thrilled. That makes me happy. Oh, my God.

Because again, back to the Michigan thing. My first thought is people hate success. The whole thing makes me nervous. I'm very scared to even be told congratulations. I know. Isn't that fucking weird? Well, because you've got to think it's around the corner. The shoe's going to drop. Yes, exactly. And then it'll actually be on top of it all going away. It'll be humiliating because I accepted those compliments. I know. It's public. But also, it's life. I know.

I want to escape that. Like, yeah, if you can't enjoy any of the things because you're so afraid it'll be taken away and you'll look like a fool to have been enjoying it. All of a sudden you're going to have to sell it all and move to a home. Also, I don't want to do this, but you are anxious.

No, do it. You're deputized to call me. This is anxiety. This is what it is. I know in your head you think of it differently and you think you have nighttime anxiety. But I've seen what you just said. Nocturnal anxiety. I think it's a clinical term, Monica. Nocturnal anxiety. But what you just described is daytime anxiety and lifetime anxiety. So you do have it. So you think I have anxiety about how people think about me. Oh, yeah, yeah. And that the shoe will drop. Yeah, that's all.

Yeah. That's literally anxiety. It's future thinking. Future surfing, they say in AA. Oh, I love it. It's good. I love that one.

that one. That is anxiety, which you got to make friends with a little bit. I loved Inside Out too for that very reason. That's where I went on my birthday. Oh, fun. Yeah. I'm so happy for Polar. Oh my God. I'm so happy for Polar. Did you hear her on here? Yes. Of course I did. She's so good. She's so good. I love Babers. I love hearing her all of a sudden be the therapist for you guys. I know. Be honest. I would imagine you love, she can shut

me the fuck up and give it to me. Yes. Yeah. I think people like it. Don't you love it too? And I accept it from her and I enjoy it. But I do think that's very fun for people to hear. I know. She's an incredible listener. Yes. That was fun. She's digesting a lot. She's fun. That was crackly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh. I was scared. I know. I know. She's the freaking best. All right.

All right. Catherine, I love you. I love you guys. This is so awesome. Agatha all along, September 18th, Disney Plus. Watch the shit out of it. And then we'll get this awesome crew of actors back together to do more. Be well. Enjoy your dog date. Thank you. I'm very excited. You should be. My daughter's like, we're coming home with one. I was like, no, we're not. Oh, boy. But I'm very excited to find this little cutie at home, I hope. All right. Adore you. Okay. Adore you.

He is an armchair expert, but he makes mistakes all the time. Thank God Monica's here. She's got to let him have the facts. I'm going to go Jake Gyllenhaal for this until I read. Yeah, his is like halfway. Oh, this is all the way down here? No, it's like one more button. One more button. That's how he did it? And he does it? Yeah. Do you think it's how he did it or he does it? Do you think it was a one-off? It's how he did it. I think it's a one-off because he was playing a character. Right.

And he was presumed innocent. Mm-hmm. Or someone was in that story. We won't spoil. Okay, I have a really important thing to talk about. Oh, okay. I'm in the middle of a mug issue. A mug? Yeah. Boy, I got real scared for a second. Yeah. But it was a misdirect. Yeah.

Yeah. No, this is a mug issue. Okay. So this weekend I went to a new restaurant. So delicious. It's called Budenoki. Okay. I love Budenoki. Oh, I was going to text you because I figured you, it was up your alley. Yes. Isn't it so good? Yeah. We've gone half a dozen times already. So Rob, have you had any of the drinks in the mugs? No. Okay. Yeah.

So they're doing a special mug drink? Yeah. They have some drinks. Maybe it's just one drink. I don't know. It comes in a very fun animal mug. Oh. And they have different ones. And so I got this seal.

A seal? Uh-huh. Okay. That's not the drink. That's the mug shape. That's the mug. And Jess got a penguin. Oh, okay. And the girl next to us got an octopus. I didn't really like the octopus. Okay. Was the penguin a promotional tie-in for the HBO show? No. It wasn't cross-promotional like when Burger King does a Godzilla cut. No. Okay. It is a ceramic, like, nice mug. Ooh. And it says on there, fee for stealing the mug, $150. Okay.

Oh. It says that on the menu. Which is interesting because how... How do they charge if you've left? Yes. And if one of your, you know, like, okay, so presumably they go, oh, we're missing a mug, which by the way, could be missing for multiple reasons. One might be that you stole it. Yeah. Second, they go, good, we have a credit card on file because they paid, but there were more than two people at the thing. So some...

Someone's getting screwed for their Jarboni friend. Well, yeah, but that's who you're friends with. Yeah. Okay. I decided when I saw that that I needed the mug. Yeah. We asked the guy, the server. We asked our server. So if we want this mug, can we take it and pay $150 for it? Yeah, that would be my thought. Just take it. But we'll tell you now and you can go ahead and charge us. Yeah.

It's like an ethical thief. Yes. He was like, well, no, I can just give you the Instagram of the woman who makes them. She's really cool. Uh-huh. And you can buy them on her website. Yeah. And it's a little cheaper. And I was like, oh, great. But then as we're sitting there, I was like, no, I want it now.

Okay. I really want to ask. You got impatient. Yeah. Uh-huh. We asked somebody else. And he said, oh, no, we'll give you the Instagram. Like, he kind of reiterated the Instagram was the way to go. Can I just add? Mm-hmm. They must deal with this all meal, every meal. It's probably like our releases now. What do you mean? Like, I'm sure every table is like, so can we just steal this and then we pay? Do you think...

Every table is as absurd as me and is willing to pay $150 for a cute, but... How big is the mug? How many ounces? It kind of looks like this shape. Like a 12 ounce mug or 18 to 20? Like whatever this is. Okay. That's probably 16. Okay. Well, I get... Yeah, whatever. It was like... It's not a Stein. It's not like a huge ceremonial mug. No. Okay. Okay.

I would guarantee most people are not doing what I did. Sure. And they're right to not do that. That's silly, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it is a town of entitled, impatient people. That's what we are. Let's own who we are as Hollywoodians. Overpaid, impatient, entitled. I think that's a good character description of us. Yeah.

It's not a cheap restaurant either. It's not. It's not a cheap restaurant. I just look. I mean, I'm giving most people the benefit of the doubt that they're not as crazy as me. Yeah. And are not seeing something. And I'm trying to compliment you. And I think you're baseline crazy for L.A. And me, too. Yeah. You're complimenting. You've been doing some weird compliments lately.

They're not landing certainly in the way I'm intending them to. No, because you are always saying something mean in there. Well, you're saying you're worse than the average person. That's what your statement is. And I'm saying you are not any worse than any of the people. But you're saying what I am is impatient and entitled and overpaid. You said that. You said that. I didn't say I was- I said LA as a character type is impatient, entitled, and overpaid. And I'm including myself in that.

Yeah, I know. I know. We're also creative and imaginative and hardworking. Like, I think it's okay that we're, that our characters define, you know, that the people that are attracted to this place have some characteristics in common. Some of them are very good and some of them are bad. Yeah, I don't know that we can...

say that everyone in LA is impatient? Well, I think the nature of LA makes you- Or overpaid. In fact, many people are very underpaid. Yep. I think the nature of all the traffic, the nature of the congestion, the nature of being at restaurants where there's a wait list, I think the context makes us all impatient. It's hard to get everywhere. It's hard to sit down and eat. It's challenging. It's not like the town I grew up in

Or I know how long it takes to get to town. It's two miles down Commerce Road and that's going to take me three minutes, you know. And then I'll eat at the restaurant I want to because of course I can when I walk in, you know. So I think the context of this city does bring out a context of New York. It's like people are blind to someone on fire. Well, I don't think that's their fault. I don't think bad people live in New York. I think they're

overwhelmed with the stimuli. But don't you think, in fact, it kind of makes you more patient? Like, the fact that I have to... It takes me an hour and a half to get home. It actually makes me more patient because there's nothing I can do. I've just resigned to...

wasting a lot of time, knowing your life is going to take a lot of time to achieve any success. Like a lot, there's a lot of built in, you must have patience to live here. Yeah. I think for sure there's force. And I agree. If someone from the Midwest came here and they're like, I got to go to this place eight miles away and they were on minute 75 of getting there, they'd be losing their mind because they have no patience. Yeah.

It's yeah, they have no, they haven't been beat down by it, but that's my assessment. I think that people here are entitled and impatient and honk their horn and cut people off and try to cut the line. You honk your horn and cut people off. I'm traveling. I don't. You don't. Yeah. You're, you're much better than me in a car.

Many, many people in L.A. are honking all day. When I drive down the street, I'm hearing honking nonstop. When I take a walk down Los Feliz Boulevard, I'm hearing honking nonstop. So I don't hear honking in Hood River, Oregon when I go there. Sure. That's fair. Yeah. And you think that's part of the entitled piece. I think that's the entitled piece. That's not an impatient piece. Well, everyone that comes here, and let's be clear, there's...

millions of people that A, didn't come here. B, aren't in show business. I'm talking about people who moved out of their town because they thought they were special. So special they should move to this other city that rewards specialness. So I think all of us who came here in search of this elevated status and elevated specialness

is a little entitled in a way that is useful because it inflates you in a way to believe you should have that or you could achieve that. And then the bad side of the sword is like you think you're special. Oh, God, special. Special is such an interesting word. Some people just

like the job and this is where the job is just like people who go to Silicon Valley because that's where tech is because they're in tech or like tech. Yeah.

I don't know that they think they're special. I think they think like, well, that's where I have to go to even try to get this. It's D.C., like people who want to be in politics. That's where they have to go in order to have a job they like. Yes, but the conversion rate of our pursuit is infinitely lower than it is in D.C., in tech, in any of this. There's there's four thousand rungs of the ladder in tech you could you could find employment in.

You wouldn't go, yeah, I love, granted, people love the craft. No question. I grant that. It's a pure pursuit. But unless you're completely irrational, you also assess, oh, there's 4 million people that have moved there to do that. And there's 1,000 employed actors per season.

Now, I love riding dirt bikes, but when I see someone do a backflip, I go, I can't do that. I won't be the 1% who can pull off a backflip. But for whatever reason, I had the arrogance to,

And the entitlement and the I feel special enough to, I knew those odds. You know those odds. Everyone knows the odds. And you go, still going. Yeah, still trying. Which is kind of wild because you're talking about one in a 10,000 chance you'll get to do the thing you want to do and you still go for it. That to me really illuminates some baseline level of, yeah, I'm special enough to be one of those one in 10,000. Yeah.

Yes, yeah, that's an interesting way of looking at it. God, this was fun. And it all started with a mug. We're not even close to the end of the story. I know, that's my favorite kind of story. So, okay, so you talk to the second person. Yes. They turn you to Instagram. He said, he said, Instagram, great. So by the end of this, it's clear we need to go to Instagram, okay? Uh-huh.

And what we did on our way out, when we looked at the shelf of their mugs. Okay. And we decided the best ones were a black bear. Hmm.

And mainly the black bear. I also really did like Jess's penguin. And they had a bunch of cute. They're all so cute. Yeah. And then I went in the car. I started Googling. First thing I see, limited edition section. Amazing. Oh, you found the right Instagram page. Okay. And those were Halloween. So she has some Halloween ones. I decided I didn't need to put my money there.

But then I went to the others and where all the animals were. Yeah, yeah. And the black bear is sold out. You have a good eye. I know, but now I'm in a huge pickle. Okay. Okay, so the black bear is sold out. Also, there was a badger that I wanted that was so cute. Sure. Sold out. No penguin. Good gift for Daniel Ricciardo.

Yeah. I mixed Danny and Daniel just now. Daniel, Daniel. Daniel. Daniel Riccardo. And no penguin. Okay. Autoprint. Exactly. Discontinued. So, hmm, how does this filter? Oh, I just spit. I'm cutting that. How does this? You should just leave it in. No. Ew. Gross. Nothing came out. I know how to fake spit. You do? Yeah.

I definitely saw some spit come out. Yes, I did see some spittle. I mean, the amount you have when you're talking. Yeah. Yeah. Try again. You gotta fake clear your throat, too. This isn't a real throat clear. Okay. You'd know when I cleared my throat. I do not. You'd fucking throw up your pretty little lunch, Diane. I think you should leave. We just showed the kids that Delta can do the whole thing now. Oh, my God. Anywho. Okay, so it's a fake throat clear. Okay.

Wow, that was good. I didn't see any spittle that time. Oh, wow. No, that's the last one. That's good. Did you have to do that in a movie? No, as a kid, you do that. Oh, my God. At least in Axford Acres, where I grew up. Not in entitled Los Angeles. No, this is before I became entitled. This is back when I was blue collar and a man of the people. So this is circling back because you're going to have thoughts on what I did next.

And you're going to say it's probably because I'm entitled or I feel special. Okay. But it's not. It's because I go after what I want. You go get her. Yes. Yeah. And so I DM'd her. Okay, great. And I said, hi, I was looking at your website. I love your mugs. I'm wondering if you're ever going to, if you're going to bring back some of the sold out mugs because I'm really interested in a couple of them. Yeah.

And she responded. Okay. You're going to read it? Okay, great. Because it's so well written, you don't want to... I don't want to mess it up. Oh, that would be a good one. I burp and then I spit. Oh. That's so gross. Yeah, I don't like that. It's like, what? Something came up when you burped? No. Gross. Gross. Gross. Actually...

I have to say, well, there are grosser things, but one, I guess maybe it's a pet peeve. I really don't like when people spit on the street. You don't? At all. Okay. All right. But one of my friends does it a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I've done a good job of not saying it, but it's- You hate it. I hate it.

I think it's so foul. Sure. Let me ask. And it is entitled. A mild distinction. Yeah. Does it anger you when he spits on the sidewalk or in the street where the cars go? I didn't say the gender of this person, but. Okay. But I, not a lot of women are fucking hacking loogies. Sorry to genderize this, but I'm not seeing too many broads clear their throat. Actually, if it was that, I would.

I think I would feel less grossed out. You'd think it was punk rock. Well, I would just be like, God, they really have a situation. They're not just like. For their amusement or a tic. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Okay, now what did you ask me about this non-gendered person? Okay, does this dude spit in the street or on the sidewalk? Would that have a different outcome of outrage for you?

Because I do, you know, I have a lot of well-documented, I have a lot of issues. Yeah. And sometimes I have to spit, but I spit in the street because no one's walking in the street. Like I get it. You spit on the sidewalk. A, someone would step on it. Gross. B, you see it. That's fucking gross. I acknowledge it's gross. That's why I want it out of my mouth.

Because it's fucking gross. You think you don't want it on a sidewalk? I don't want it in my mouth. It's yours. I don't want it. Well, I don't want it either, but I swallow it all day long. Oh, my God. Don't give the beat-off people something to play over and over again. I will find a bush...

Because if you're running around in a bush on the sidewalk and you run into my spit, that's on you. So I'll try to find some foliage. Also, I think they appreciate it. It's probably nutritional and medicinal. No, that is so, talk about entitled. No, that's, talk about, that's arrogance. I think my spit is so healthy for plants. Yeah, that's right. I'll spit, first I'll try to find a foliage, like dirt around a tree planter. And by the way, I'm like, I'm a sharpshooter.

I'm not like first day, like, you know, like where'd it go? I could hit, as you know, I won the cherry seed spitting contest up in Traverse City. So I can put it exactly where I want. I make sure no one's looking. I got moves. I do like, I just really get it out quick and get rid of it. And then I'll do it second to that in the street. And I'll even step out in the street, act like I'm going around. So out the side of my, so no one sees it.

And never on the side. Everyone sees it. This is what you're learning about this behavior of mine. Just now. I know you've seen it. Yeah. Okay. Am I your friend in this story? You're not. I have this friend, whatever they are, very short.

They do the most annoying thing. Don't be mean because I wasn't talking about you. Oh, you're so mean to me these days. No, I'm so nice to you. My God. Okay, so. Okay, so anyway, this person also mainly spits in the foliage area.

The greenery, like anything green or they don't spit in the street. I mean, in the sidewalk. Okay. That's, that's pretty. Yeah, but it's still. It's still gross. It's so gross. Yeah. It is gross. Yeah. Sputum. Sputum.

It's full of bacteria. Yeah, it's gross. That's why you want to eat your own bacteria is fine to swallow. Okay. I'm not, I don't need, I shouldn't be exposed to anyone else's bacterias. Okay. Okay. Stay tuned for more armchair expert. If you dare. Canva presents your work horoscope for this week.

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Back to the mug. Yeah, you're about to read her response. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God, it's 11-11. Oh! Okay, let me think. Oh, yeah, me too. Without flipping them into negatives. Please, God, grant us this blessing. It's not God who does it. Father. Father.

Father, what is it? Father, uh. Father time, I guess. Father God, Father God. Oh my God. Father God. It's 1111, Father God. Can you tell I'm coming out of my bad mood? Why were you in a bad mood? I was just grumpy for a couple of days. I was really exhausted. I don't know why. I think it was from the previous week and shooting the commercial and all the other stuff. But it kind of hit me like I couldn't work out. You saw me yesterday. I was asleep on a chaise lounge. Yeah, that was weird. When have you ever stumbled upon me and I was asleep outside? Well, it just looked like you were getting some sun. Some sun? Yeah. Yeah.

I was getting some Zs. Oh, you didn't seem grumpy. The dinner made me, I was recognizing this morning while I was journaling, like how much of an extrovert I am. Like the power, the fuel source that is for me. Because I was very exhausted. I slept on a chaise lounge. I was grumpy. I didn't want to go.

Of course, I was nice to you because you're my friend. But I didn't want to go. And then we got there and I started chatting with new people. And I had a really good time. And then I was like, it clicked me out of my bad mood. I'm like, God, I am such an extrovert. That's so interesting. If you believe the paradigm where you're given energy by those as opposed to drained of energy. Yeah. Okay, what'd she say? I said, hi, I have a question. Are any of the sold out mugs returning? She said, love to answer any questions. Which ones are you looking at?

I said, I was looking at the black bear and the badger. I was looking at the black bear and the badger! Exclamation point. Oh, oh. And I said, and you don't have a pig by chance, do you?

And she said, unfortunately, all those designs have been discontinued. It seems you love the forest animals. Is that what you're drawn to? Oh, my God. So this is kind of like a spiritual experience. And I said, oh, that's so sad. Not necessarily drawn to forest animals specifically. Those were just extremely cute. Then she said, so glad you like them. We're announcing an addition to our forest friends lineup this week. We really hope you're drawn to it. Desert devils.

Sidewinder snake. I should check right now. Scorpion. See if it's been updated. Oh, wow. Since your interaction. Oh, there's a new one. It's a fox. It's cute. And we've assigned you fox in the past. Shit. Should I get it? Of course. Go crazy.

You should get the fox, bring it to that restaurant, put a sign on it that says, if I leave this behind, you owe me $150. If I forget this here, you owe me $150. That's a phone. Wow, that would really work. Do you think I should get two and then leave one at the restaurant and take the black bear? No, it's discontinued. They don't know that. What?

Well, it's like they knew the most about this in your learning. No, I think this is maybe a good hack because I'm giving them one. Uh-huh. Maybe you should give them two and take the bear. So order three, keep one, give them two and take one. Okay.

Okay, I'm adding Dakar. Adding Dakar. I also want a unicorn. There's a unicorn that's really cute. Okay. I don't like a unicorn. Really? Yeah. Why? I was going to give an explanation that was way deeper than is real. Well, what was it? I am curious. I don't like...

I don't like deception. I don't like the Easter bunny. I don't like fake. I like real stuff. I don't like to be fooled. I don't want someone to think I think there's really a unicorn. There's no such thing. Okay. Do you know that? Can I say something? Yeah. You use the phrase unicorn more than most people I've ever met. I do like describing humans as unicorns. Yeah. But I guess you're right. I'm saying they're fake.

If I'm standing by what I just said, so I do have to rescind everything I just said. Okay. All right. Get a unicorn one. That sounds fun. Add it to my list. Playful. Okay. I just don't think, let me say this. Okay.

And I think she's onto something with her spiritual talk. When you get the bear or the whatever, right? It's like woodsy. Yeah. It's like, I'm going to have a mead or I'm going to have this woods beverage. Yeah. And it adds something to it. A unicorn mug is like, what's inside? Confetti? Cotton candy? How fun is that? Bubblegum flavor? Yeah.

Not for a warm, you know, I guess maybe if you only drank hot cocoa out of it with rainbow marshmallows. Hell yeah. Then that's fine. Get it. Yeah. But just that's just for hot cocoa with rainbow marshmallows. You only. So you're drawn to forest friend. Okay. So out of these. Yeah, I would get the bear and I'd pour chili in it. We all want the bear. Okay. It's discontinued. I'd fill it with bison chili and drink my chili out of it because it's hearty and woodsy. Do you want river otter?

Oh, that's really cute. I kind of want that for Delta.

Well, she's also a unicorn. She's the ultimate unicorn. I know. See? And I'm taking my little unicorn on a bike vacation. That's so fun. I'm so glad you guys are doing that. I'm very excited. That'll be so cute. Okay. Now tell me what you're drawn to, okay, of these headings. Uh-huh. Forest friends. Yeah. Underwater friends. Mythical friends. No way, Pat. Merlin. The wizard. Yeah.

lord of the rings stop you're insulting so many people you don't like this dragon i guess i should because did we find out i'm here that no i'm here the tiger oh yeah give me a jungle cat and who are what who was i you're the rabbit still i think oh okay there's a sasquatch and a yeti too i think that's so fun conspiracy theories you're just flagging yourself as a dope

Oh, my God. Okay, so. I'm trying to, today's goal is to alienate every single person. Including me. Yeah, yeah. Underwater friends, forest friends, mythical friends, farm friends. Oh, I'd like farm friends. Safari friends. So you have to pick one. The forest creatures. Followed by safari. Yeah. Then third. Farm. Farm. Then underwater, then mythical. Yep.

Wow. Yeah. Huh. What's your order? On face value? Without seeing. Thin slice. Okay. Without seeing, if I just hear the headings, it's mythical first. Why? God, man. That's so fun. Like, I love mermaids and stuff.

Oh, because you played a mermaid? Yeah, basically. No, mermaids are cool. They're sirens and they... What could be worse than neither being a fish or a human? So you can't walk, which is the whole goal of being a human. You love the water. I know, but I'd want to be a full-on dolphin. I wouldn't want to be a human fucking top and a dolphin bottom. Why? You love talking so much. Oh.

You have a really strong counter. That was a really good point because I could swim super fast in the... Exactly. And I could go, look at me, I'm entitled. I'm special. That's why I moved to the ocean. Hong, Hong, Hong, get out of my way. I should be there quicker than everyone. All right. So anyway, all to say... You got them all. I'm going to get them... How big is your cabinet at your new house? Because you're, you're, the things you collect...

Mainly mugs. Mainly mugs. Yeah, I love mugs. You have all the Starbys mugs. You need a considerable amount of linear square footage or linear footage. Will you put any of your mugs behind your little head there with your mouse and your sorting hat? I guess I could if there's overflow. I'd like to spray it with some kind of sound dampening thing, but if you're cool with that. What if Starbucks made us our own mug? It said armchair is the city. The city is the attic. Oh. But really...

I still have to figure out a way to get the black bear. I got to applaud this woman's integrity. Okay. So that's really what I want to talk about because I wondered. It's weird to me to discontinue, although that's crazy for us to say because we have several sweaters that have been discontinued. True. So we're not on a firm footing here to be critical. But it seems crazy to me that she has one that everyone loved and she's like done making it. I know.

I agree. But our sweatshirts are different. The sweatshirt's more like a concert T-shirt. Yes. It's a year. It's of the moment. It's of the moment and it's a timestamp. Yes, exactly. Do you think Somewhere in the Bear mug is embedded 2024? Oh. Because that would be, she'd be very legitimate. I'd really, really want it then. Yeah. Oh, my God.

Yeah, but I mean, I have to say, I also applaud her integrity. And I did think for maybe a minute. You could sway her. She'd make me one. Of course. Part of. My specialness. My entitlement. Yeah. No, it's going after what I want. Great. And she did not budge or sway. Yeah. And I've had to make peace. Yeah, she has boundaries and I appreciate that. Yeah. And I have had to make peace. And I'm going to get the fox. Yeah.

I'd like to try to understand. Yeah. This is sincerely. Oh. We got to do some comps. Okay. Like you're craving for this mug. Yeah. Out of 10. I don't even want to do it out of 10. What I want to do is I'm going to ask you to compare it to when you have craved for a romantic somebody.

Like when you have longed for another human, a male human, how did those two longings compare? Because I don't relate to this, you know, in a fun way. I mean, I might have it a little bit with cars, but luckily the barrier of entry to cars is so ginormous that I can talk myself out of it very easily. And so I'm trying to, I want to anchor it into a similar longing. Yeah.

Is it the most longing you feel in life is for these little things? No, it's not. But it is connected, I think. Romantic connection is not available at my fingertips. Right. And I can't have it easily. Yeah. And so when there are things in life I want that I can have easily, I...

I feel satiated. Yeah. There are so many things in life I can't have. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That if there's something I can, I'll get it. This is such a ding, ding, ding. I can't believe we did this. This is for Katherine Hahn. And we talk about hoarders. Oh, yeah. And there's something here about that as well.

Except also, I did find the transcript of the episode, Malcolm's episode, Malcolm Gladwell's episode of Revisionist History. It's called Dragon Psychology 101. It was in 2020. It's such a good episode. He talks about like art. It's a lot about art. But then they talk about hoarders. And okay, well, now I scroll to the top. I don't have to find it again. Okay.

Okay. While you're looking for that, I'm going to express this thought I had. So I was journaling this morning. I was recognizing I was in a better mood. And then I was kind of taking an inventory of when I'm in a bad mood. I guess I project it. I start ruminating on other people's character defects when I'm grumpy and grouchy and tired. And I start like obsessing about, okay, this person is in this continual pattern of

And they're not going to do anything to adjust this pattern. I realize that my own discomfort really makes me start getting critical of other people around me. That's a good thing to know about yourself. To the point where I'm like, I'm going to bring this up to this person.

And I guess because I'm getting older, I did have the willpower to resist, but it took a lot of my willpower. And I kind of was going like, let's just wait a while. This is in a pause when agitated, right? But it was so concrete and real for the last few days. And then this morning I was in a good mood and I was like,

Oh, yeah, I don't care that that person has that pattern. And I accept that they are that way. Yeah. And it's all me. But it's so misleading. I guess I say all this to say I had this enormous blast of gratitude that in general, I'm not living in great discomfort.

I don't have chronic long lasting depression. I don't have a lot of things that a lot of people deal with. Yeah. And they're grumpy and they're assholes. And I just experienced it. It's like, yeah, you almost can't,

be any other way. If you're grumpy and agitated, then everything around you is agitating and the people in your life are. And you become misanthropic, but it's not really all your fault. It's just like you're trapped in this discomfort. But it's knowing that that's what's happening. Knowing that it's you actually is very helpful to pull you out. But all it can do with the awareness is

is, is, is hold my tongue, which is advisable. It is the right thing to do, but it doesn't, you can't change how you feel like a, you can't change. You can't go on. Well, now I feel like I'm in a good mood because I decided. Sure. And if you're in a cranky, terrible mood, all you can really do is just keep your mouth shut. You can't change that opinion. You have the people you're assessing and judging. I can't, I can't turn that off.

That's just how I feel. That's how the world looks to me. Right. And all I can do is shut up. But I was thinking, you know, I'm so lucky in that I've got to weather that for like three days. Interesting. And some people are weathering that, you know, half the year, the whole year, year on year, year over year.

And yeah, it's got to be rough. Yeah. And you can only be so benevolent when you're in great discomfort. But also it's on you to learn how to feel good.

Yeah. But I'm acknowledging like I do have a program that will result in me feeling good. And it involves, you know, a reasonable amount of work and the right amount of sleep and the right amount of exercise and diet. Yeah. And then for some people, probably many, many people, they could have that recipe I have and it wouldn't result in the right amount of serotonin.

Yeah, so there might be a medication that needs to be put in place. It's on you to fix your life. I mean, I really believe that. It just made me really sympathetic to people who are really stuck in depression and stuck in –

and misfortune and unemployment. And yeah, it's really hard to be generous and loving. Yeah, it's very hard. It's almost impossible. I'm really sympathetic to it. I just think the best you can do is like not cause wreckage in those periods. I think that's a really lovely thing and like way of looking at it. I'm thinking of someone very specific that cannot find the light. This person cannot find

do it. And for a long time, I had a lot of sympathy and I run out. This person,

has a million options to get out of this. Yeah. But it's on them. Yeah. And I've had depression. Like, I've had big chunks of time where I, like, am in the mud and it feels like I'll never be able to get out or I can't. But I'm open to people's advice and people...

you know, telling me maybe you should try this or maybe this. And then I do. And it helps. Like you have to avail yourself. Yeah. The way I always phrase that is I have a lot of patience for anyone engaged in the fight. Yeah, totally. But if you're not engaged in the fight, I can't be with you and I can't be your friend. I remember that was one of like the very early conflicts Kristen and I had like really early into dating. And there was a certain period

And she has depression, admittedly. Yeah. And there's a period of like in bed and, you know, all this stuff. And at some point I had to say to her, I will be with you forever if you're engaged in the fight. But I won't sit by your side while you do nothing and hope that you get better. I can't. I can't. Yeah. Do that with you. Yeah. But even that's a little bit of a probably privileged point of view. Like there's I probably have not been at the depths where being engaged in the fight was not even possible. There is a level of mental illness that is cannot be realized.

rationed with or exactly. Yeah. But that's not really who I think we're talking about. No, we're talking about people who have to really make a decision. And it is, it's just self-awareness. It's knowing like, God, I've been angry at people for a year, every day. All I think about is how mad I am at this person or this person or this person or how bad things are for me. And I'm

Every time I talk about someone else, it's in a negative light. Like that should be like, everyone should do some kind of inventory. Reflection. When I'm talking about people, is it generally to point out something shitty I heard about somebody? Right. That's not a great signal. Yeah. Or just assessing how you feel throughout the day. Like am I, when's the last time I felt happy or good? Yeah. If it's been a really long time. Yeah.

And then, you know, it just requires active thinking and reflection and like, okay, I think I might need to do something. I need to get in therapy. I need to get on a medication probably. I need to X, Y, and Z. And that is where privilege because all those things cost money. Yeah, totally. So I do that. And even maybe imply a friendship circle with some awareness and some, you know, yeah, there's a lot to it.

I've never been, I've only had one suicidal thought in my life. I've talked about it was when I was at towards the end of drinking and stuff. And I was in Santa Monica, whatever. I had one moment where I wanted to jump in front of a bus, but other than that, and this is not a suicidal thought, but when I have the feeling of like, I want to go, I want to take a nap.

And I don't want to wake up for like a year. Yeah. I don't want to die. Yeah. But I really want to take a nap that lasts about a year. And I want to wake up feeling fucking...

Yeah. You know? Yeah, I have that. That to me is like a, that's a huge red flag. Yeah. The desire to just sleep through maybe the next few days or months or years. I just want to be in this bed. I want to feel cozy for a few months. Yeah, one time, I think when we had Conan on, he said this, and I relate and I come in and out of this feeling of, I just want to like- Oh.

Sometimes I just want to like get injured enough or sick enough that I have to go to the hospital and like live at the hospital for a couple months. Yes. This was the great joke in Bad Moms. I don't remember that. That was Kristen's total fantasy is that she would get in a car accident and be in the hospital bed and watch TV and the kids would just come in and say hi to her and then they would leave. Oh, that's funny.

Yeah. Like sometimes I'm just like life is too much right now. And I wish I could just like go to the hospital and I, yeah, I don't want to die, but I want to remove myself. Well, I think there's even more to the specific hospital fantasy because I can relate to that one greatly. And I think that's, that's also symptomatic of you need a valid enough excuse to

to hit pause and take some time for yourself, but you're so, you're just so weighted by this drive to accomplish and be productive. Yeah, exactly. And the only thing that would justify a break from productivity would be something that took me to the hospital. Yes, exactly. That's exactly right. Cause like just laying in bed is not the thing. No, you'd hate yourself. Yeah. You're like, well, I gotta be here. It has to be like,

There's literally nothing else I can do but be here. I bet a lot of people in this Western productivity. Fucking entitled. Anyway, we got really off. I like it.

Okay. Now back to hoarding. Yeah. Hoarding. There is, there's an element that's like, I might need it. Like what are these items, right? Like one element is I might need it someday. And then the other is emotional. And that's the emotional connection with another person, event, or something. It says the second of those ideas, the emotional one describes as the Proust effect, remembrance of things past.

He's eating this cookie and all of a sudden it brings him back to his childhood when his aunt used to make these cookies for him. And he remembers the way it felt a little bit like other phenomena is. It's like hearing a song from your childhood. What started to dawn on me was that with people with this problem, these objects form that kind of experience in a much more intense way than everybody else. So somehow these objects are keys to these visceral memories that get produced. Hmm.

So finding something, anything, some token, some memento, anything that from your past triggers a much more vivid recollection than in the rest of us. What's interesting is that ties into the expert we had yesterday, which was going to talk about tribalism. Yeah, exactly. And that one of the three main components is this compulsion to know and honor the past. Yeah. Which is fascinating because that's related.

Yeah, it is. It's all connected. Well, okay. And then they talked about this one woman who couldn't throw away a Disney blanket that her daughter loved as a child because she felt like if she threw it away, she'd be throwing away all the memories associated and she'd lose that piece of history and her personal history. So it's more like it's so connected to human emotion. Like these objects are so connected to memory, even though like all the, you know, things are connected to memory, but for me,

non-hoarders we can also we can also still have the memory with without the object and they can too but they're too fearful well i was gonna say like to me that feels like some underlying it's almost like ocd the real one we discovered yeah where you're not a molester but you're obsessed with the notion that you might be yes and to me this reeks of like

For no reason, you're convinced you will forget your daughter and the love you feel towards her if this object doesn't exist. And that's not true. But the obsession that that could happen is very real and true. Yeah. But also, I think it's true—

Oh, you know, we don't know. I think it's true that people feel things at different intensities. So I do think with hoarders that the level of intensity when they see something is different. It is, but I'd argue because it's the abatement of the deep fear that

It's hard to know chicken or the egg. Right. But to me, it's like when you look at addiction, when I became incredibly compassionate to addiction, which I never really was, even though I had it and I was open about it, I didn't get compassionate to it until Aaron got sober four and a half years ago. Yes. Wow. There's a very specific moment where it all clicked for me. And I've talked about it, which is

I realized Aaron was huffing gas in eighth grade. Yeah. And it's terrible. It's a terrible high fault by a headache. It's so bad. Yeah. And I realized, God, that was an improvement for Aaron. Exactly. And that's really what addicts are. They're just looking for some fucking relief. So.

Yeah, it's a heightened feeling for the hoarder to hold the blanket. But it's not because they... I don't think they genetically have a more response to tactile. It's that the fear is so uncomfortable and destructive that when it goes away for the minute you're holding the blanket...

It feels great. Yeah. So yes, their feeling is stronger than ours, but it's not because I don't think they physiologically have something more going on. It's that their fear is so big that the relief of the fear is almost euphoric. You don't think addicts have something a little bit different physiologically going on? I do. You think even beyond that, there's something in the reward circuit? Yes, I do. Yeah, I think that's going on too. Because I think obviously there's this super asymmetric relationship

history of

trauma and ACE scores. And I do think those rewire your arousal system. So yeah, I think, but again, that just goes back to my opinion. That's why the status quo is so uncomfortable that the relief is necessary. But I think that's where, you know, that's the whole genetic. Is it nature or nurture? Genetic slows the gun and trauma pulls the trigger. And I have a ton of compassion for addicts. And at this point, that's all I have towards them. I really don't think there's a choice.

At all. Right, right, right. And again, there's like, then there's responsibility after. Are you engaged in the fight? Exactly. Ding, ding, ding. But no, like I think there is something physiologically happening that is not happening in my brain. Right. And so that's nothing for me to judge. Like I can't. It's like when we talk about pedophilia. Yeah. Pedophiles. Well, that's. I'm not fighting an urge. Wired that way. I know. Thank God.

Yeah. I know. That is how I feel. I'm just like, thank God. Thank God I didn't get that. Yes. So, you know, whatever. Okay. We have like four minutes. Okay. Dave Bautista is not vegan.

But he added that someday he plans to go, or he says he plans to go vegan. Are you sure? I typically do an almond butter and a banana or a vegan gluten-free grilled cheese is my favorite go-to. But it says someday he plans, he says he plans to go vegan. Oh. He lost 75 pounds. Yeah, 75 pounds. He is not saying that he- Is vegan. Is vegan.

I mean, it seems like he's eating more vegan stuff, but he says, I eat fish, eggs. Oh. Yeah. That's not vegan. No. Well, we don't really have time to go through most popular karaoke songs. Okay. But number one. Actually, it's not even most popular. Is it Let's Go Girls? It's not even most popular, which is annoying. It's 100 Greatest. Oh, yeah. That's someone's opinion. Yeah. It's an opinion. They're all opinions. It's not a metric. But let me... Number one...

On this list, this is billboard is. Let's go girls. Is that your guess? That's it. No. Yeah. Oh, I feel so good. That's cool. That was cool. I'll buy you a fox mug for that. Oh, I want a bear. Fuck. Now you gotta get two bears.

Number two, I want it that way, Backstreet Boys. Yeah, that sounds right. Then I will survive number three. Yep. Okay, cool. We won't keep going. Okay.

Okay, toad medicine, toad venom. Toad venom. It's a traditional Chinese medicine that has shown therapeutic efficacies in clinical, mainly in China, and has been widely used for the treatment of cancer, cardiovascular diseases, pain, and inflammation slash inflammatory disease. Okay. Yeah, so Samuel, when Andre the Giant was 12. Yeah. And he had acromegaly, so he couldn't take the school bus. Yeah.

I know. Well, especially when you take a fart on the school bus. Can you imagine?

All the kids would be so mean. How fucking weird that when he was in like fourth grade, he would come in the classroom and he was bigger than his teacher. I know. He couldn't even ride a school bus. Oh my God. That's so sad. But Samuel Beckett, the playwright, did drive him to school. What? Yeah. I don't know this part. Yeah, she said it. And then I'm checking it that it's correct. And it is. He played cards with his dad.

In France? And he said they mostly talked about cricket. Oh, okay. Yeah. I just saw a graph on Instagram yesterday and it was most money per capita by country. Uh-huh. This is kind of fun. What do you think number one is? Wait, most money... Per capita. Number one is France? Switzerland. Oh, okay.

Yeah. Number two is the USA. Really? It's a powerful graph to look at because I think our number was virtually roughly like $586,000 of wealth per person in America. And we have a lot of fucking people. Switzerland's got a very few people. Yeah. 15% of Switzerland's population is millionaires.

Whoa. 15%. That's crazy. You go down the list, and I was expecting the UK to be in the top five. Yeah. UK was in the teens, below France, and 300, like almost half of what Americans have. Well...

I think that's more indicative of wealth disparity than it is. That's definitely a part of it. Yeah. It's definitely part of it. But I was a little shocked that France had more than England. It was just, it was, there's some counterintuitive stuff in there and there wasn't like, I would have expected maybe Saudi Arabia to be number one. It wasn't. Yeah. Again, because I think the, they have some very rich people and then a lot of very poor people, like same with India, there's billionaires and then there's a ton of poor people. Yeah.

And same with fear. The only thing is there's so few people. Like in Qatar, there's so few people. Anyways, it was a fascinating list to look at. So I just looked up countries, most billionaires. Most billionaires. Yeah. The United States is number one. Yeah. We have 813 billionaires. But that's gross. I do wonder per capita. No, this is per capita. Oh, it's per capita. Oh, wait, no, no, no. You're right. You're right. We're 11 per capita. 11th. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. We just have so many people.

Who's number one per capita? Number one per capita is... I kind of want to guess. Okay, guess. Billionaires. Probably Saudi Arabia. Monaco. Oh, duh. Of course. Tax-free. They have three billionaires.

Yeah, but they've only got like 20 people. Exactly. They have three. We have 813. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we have the most. China has 406, but their per capita is 53. India is 200, and their per capita is 58. Who's number two? Okay, number two is per capita...

I would think Singapore would be up there. No. Oh, my God. Uh-oh. Lechtenstein. Oh, sure. Banking. They have won. Okay. In a population of 60 people. Yeah. And then number three is St. Kitts and Napa.

These are all like offshore. Yeah. And Lichtenstein's a bank haven. They also have one. Yeah. Okay. But the fact that we're 11 per capita, which is pretty high. Yeah. Considering the game. And we have a big population. Yeah, we have like the fifth biggest population. And we have numerically the most. It's very interesting. Yeah. Anyway. Okay. Well, we have to go. We do. We have to do Armchair Anonymous. We don't have to. We're lucky enough to do Armchair Anonymous. Yeah, that's right. Yesterday, I would have said we have to. Today, I feel like we're lucky to. Oh.

Wow. All right. Well,

Well. I love Katherine Hahn. Oh, my God. Fuck do I love her. Love her. Yeah. What a catch. She's the best. Also, we were supposed to talk about Chimp Crazy. We had been really, we'd been pushing and pushing until this episode. Because she introduced us. Introduced us. And yet we are out of time. That's okay. And we also have the fun dinner we went to. So we have lots of fodder, a lot of content coming. And I'll let everybody know about the mugs. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Keep everyone posted. Love you. Love you.

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