Colman Domingo
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Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dax Shepard and I'm joined by Lily Padman. Hello. Hello. I think this actor is one of the most beautiful actors alive. I would imagine a lot of people like myself probably discovered Coleman on Euphoria where he was, what's her name on Euphoria? Rue. Rue. Rue.

Rue's like kind of sponsor in AA. Yeah, he's incredible. Oh, they had the most beautiful scenes in the diner. Which we talk about. Yeah, he stole my heart in that. And then he's just continued. Every time he pops up, I'm just blown away by him. He is an Academy Award nominated actor. He's a playwright and a director. And you've seen him in The Color Purple, Fear of the Walking Dead, Zola, Euphoria, Ruslan. And now he has a new movie called Sing Sing, which is really, really, really good.

really special. It's such a cool movie. And as you'll learn, many of the casts are people that are really involved in the true story behind this movie, Sing Sing. It's just outstanding. And he's so wonderful and sparkly and kind and lovely. Please enjoy Coleman Domingo. Oh,

And before we get into the episode, we have a fun opportunity. If you would like to go see Sing Sing, this is a rare occurrence where 824 offered us anyone that listened to the episode and got intrigued that would want to go see the movie for free. You can because you're an armchair. So we're going to do a story. And in the story, there'll be a link that you can follow if you want to go get free tickets to see Sing Sing. Do it. Or in our show description. He's an armchair expert. He's an armchair expert.

What? Hey, how you doing? What an entrance. Hi. How you doing, man? I've been practicing. How are you, man? Please come up. How are you doing? How are you? Welcome. How you doing? Great to meet you. Good to meet you, too. Yeah. What a special dude you are. Oh, thanks, man. Yeah, yeah. I don't know that I've been so moved by an actor in a long, long time. Thank you. Hi, man.

Hi, Monty. Hi. What a dazzling outfit you're in. Oh, thanks. You know, I almost wore some short shorts myself, and now I'm kind of regretting. We could have really bonded. I was in jeans, and I was like, you know what? I'm going to drop down to shorts. I'm going to drop down to shorts. I'm sitting in an attic with two lovely people. It's hot as fuck. I'm going to be chill. Exactly. Show some leg today. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Are those just your legs or are we working on them? Because I destroy mine to get them to look almost as good as yours. I got a bad hunch yours just look like that. Dude, I have terrible legs. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm seeing a lot of striation on the quadriceps. Monty, are those good or bad legs? They're great legs. Are they really? Yeah. They're like these long, you know, listen, in my DNA, I have some Nigerian blood. So I think it's Nigerian. That's what it is. So you need some of that, Dax.

I don't know what percentage you would make. I was very disappointed in my 23 and me. I got nothing from Africa. What did you get? Oh, man. A bunch of fucking British and some... He has no dark colors. I know. Not even like... Nothing. Exactly. I don't even have...

- You don't have any Mediterranean? - You have none of the Mediterranean? - No. - You're like white white. - No melanin, none. - None, okay, cool. - No, it's not cool. I grew up in Detroit. It looked good. I felt left out. I mean, sincerely, there was this thing, the Bobolo Boat. You ever heard of Bobolo Island in Detroit? - No. - We had this weird little theme park on an island in between Canada and Detroit, and you had to take a boat there. And it was one of the rare situations where all the black and white people were together.

because everyone goes to Bobo Island. And I remember as a kid watching, I was like, all the black folks are dancing on the morning ride there. There was like music. I never saw white people dance unless they were fucking hammered.

And shit face people dancing. It don't look as good. It's not as sexy. No, it's not life-affirming. Right, right, right. There's a history of people of color and dance and why we dance and to find life, you know, so I think it's all there, which is why I'm always good for a good dance. Yeah, yeah. Well, I, too, grew up and loved to dance like crazy, but I just remember thinking, like, there's something there that I want that we don't seem to have, and it's this living out loud, fun. It's just very attractive to me. Yeah.

Yeah, that's like cultural, right? I feel like it's the way we're raised. You know, I grew up in inner city, West Philadelphia. Talk about expressive people. They walk down the street with bravado and style and everything is external, but we come from very modest backgrounds. Sure. So it's like the way you find your way in the world and like the way you amplify is through the way you walk, the way you dance, the way you dress. So I feel like all of that, I'm not showing any of that today. I am showing leg, but I'm not giving you- The full Monty. The full Monty of it all. The shorts are short.

I could give you the whole monster. We'll let you see how this goes. Maybe you'll spread out a little bit and we'll see what's cracking down there. I'm going to add a layer to it. Now, this is the part I bond deeply with folks from Detroit, which is I think also in a world where there's a lot of trauma and a lot of low lows, when the sun's out and a little bit of joy peaks in, you fucking tackle it.

I think that's like part of the cycle. It is for me. It's this kind of swinging pendulum of like, oh God, police are here. People are leaving. People are bleeding. Fuck, it's sunny. We're swimming. Let's go. When it comes, you need it and you grab it and you go all the way with it. I think that's also in the mix. That's also in the mix of, like you're saying places like Detroit. I also say Philly, Baltimore, D.C. I feel like it's filled with people who are the underdogs. No one's checking for these people from these places.

But I think we thrive and survive by being the underdog. Like, oh, don't count me out. Because I'm like, I'm a warrior. Yeah. Because you're not thinking about me. And I'm going to keep rising and keep rising. Like Detroit. Detroit has been rising for years, but also has a stigma on it. I love going to Detroit. Detroit is one of my favorite places. Well, it's definitely had all kinds of phases. I was living down there in 93 when every building was condemned. Now it's just down there, there's fucking farmer's markets. There's Whole Foods. Yes.

I did not think that was coming. Right. I was one of the people who were like, I don't know, guys. I think that's a wrap on Detroit. Page one re-wrap on Detroit. Yeah, we need a page one. Throw up everything you've written so far. Yeah.

You're one of four and you're the third? Yeah, oh yeah. So who's above you? My older brother, Rick, he's Derek Domingo, and then Avery Domingo is my sister. And then my younger brother, who's Philip Bowles, who is my mother and my stepfather. Okay, so an older brother, an older sister, a younger brother. What was your older brother like? What was his vibe?

- And how much older? - He's got me by nine years. - Significant. - So yeah, he was cool. He and my sister, they were the coolest kids on the block. They looked good, they were athletic. - Tough? - Not tough, very popular. My older brother in particular was very much like, how can I say this? He wore, I'm thinking of him in like in the 70s. - He's born in 60. - Yeah, exactly. So I'm thinking of him wearing like gabardine trousers and being sexy.

and a ladies' man. Everybody loved him. He did gymnastics. He was a painter. Rick was very popular. Perfect name, too, for that guy, Rick. Cool guy. Everybody loved him. It's like Rick. My sister was the toughest one, actually, because she was a tomboy. She was the only girl in the family. She was tough. I would actually get her to, like,

beat up dudes for me. Yes, because I know from your story and just reading about you, you're shy. You have a lisp. You're in Philly. Yeah, I was messed up. I'm worried about you. Listen, I was worried about me. I was the bookish kid. I wasn't a cool kid. I was very shy. I stayed in the library. I did everything

that led to you possibly getting beat up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I love books and reading, and I was a teacher's pet because I did my homework, and I loved my teachers because they were the smartest people in the world. They were nice to you. They were very nice to me, but then I felt kids would look at me like I was a target. To be honest, all through even up until high school, I was always known as being very shy and very quiet. And people were like, oh, did you know you were extroverted and an actor? Not at all. People knew me as I was in the library. I was also in the school newspaper. I didn't do plays.

I wasn't with the cool kids because also I felt like I went to a school, I actually went to school with Will Smith. No kidding. In similar age? Yeah, he's one year above. But we went to high school together. And do you remember him? Yeah, I do. He dated a friend of mine, Gina Cooper, when he was in school. Was she hot as blazing? She was totally hot. She was unbelievable. Good. He's always been crushing, comforting. Exactly. So there were the cool kids that went to the Wynn Ballroom and saw Jazzy Jeff and Will Smith perform and all. This is in high school. Wow.

They were actually starting to do things. They were middle-class families, upper middle class. And I was one of the kids that caught the bus. Well, hold on. You got about nine strikes against you at this point. I told you I was messed up. Everything about this man sitting across from you is survival. And it started, really, it's just like how to negotiate and navigate. Were you trying to be invisible? Yeah. There's a picture of me in my Overbrook High School yearbook.

When I look at it and I go through yearbook, people are looking through like, "Oh my gosh." And they see me, I have a big sweater on, my shoulders are hunched and I have glasses on. I look like I'm trying to fade away. - You're a CIA operative trying to blend in. - Yeah, but I was an observer. I realize now that that was part of my superpower.

I watched everything. And I watched human behavior and I watched how cool kids operated. I watched how the nerds operated. Yeah, you're never blinded by being on the inside of it. You're actually constantly on the outside, objectively looking at the math of it and how this works. And that person says this and they respond this way. You're looking at all these things outside of your own experience because you're like,

I wish I had some of these qualities. So then I had more to build on. By the time I got to college at Temple University, I became more extroverted. It was an opportunity to become a different person. And I started to work out because I was always super thin. No kind of body. Again, another strike. This is a very sad story, isn't it, Dax? Yeah. Yeah, like if you're Will Smith...

It's like, let me get this straight. You came out the gates, you crushed it. You never took the foot off the gas. Crushed it. He was from a middle class family. He had his own challenges, of course, as he says. Yeah, I think his family life was a little rough. Was it obvious, though, even back then? Oh, he's a star. Oh, he was. I didn't know he was going to be an actor. I knew him as a rapper. He and Jazzy Jeff, they were like the cool kids. And all the cool kids went and followed them to the wind ball room and they performed. I wasn't invited because I was not a cool kid. And I couldn't even afford it.

Hall & Oates are also from Philadelphia. Daryl Hall's also went in singing contests around this era. Do you have any awareness of Daryl Hall at that time? Awareness, yeah, because he was the coolest. They called them Blue-Eyed Soul. Absolutely. There's so much soul that comes from Philly. Philadelphia International Records, and you had American Bandstand that started there.

Yeah, and you're not far off that. You're my brother's age. You're 69, right? November 69. I was going to say, I'm not 69 years old. We're doing your research, Zach. By the way, that's happened a few times lately. Because bad news, you and I are approaching our birth year as ages. I mean, that ain't

That's kind of wild. Wait, how old are you? I was born in '75, I'm 49. Okay, cool. You have a ways to go. I do, but we were just interviewing someone and I said my birth year and they were like, "You're not 75." But even the notion that that would get cloudy, which is what just happened. I said, "You're 69, meaning you're born in '69." But let me tell you something, has anybody told you about how good it's gonna feel when you're 50?

How's that happen? I read someone's account of kind of the storms of past. That's all I've heard. Do you love Fifi? Listen, I want to just educate me. When I was a kid and probably that awkward kid that was trying not to get beat up, I always thought I'd be my best when I was about 40.

I was really turned on by older people. That sounds weird. I didn't mean turned on. No, no, I got you. But I thought that I'd be better when I was 40. I was so awkward and I was looking and I thought older people had all the things figured out. Then I got to 40 and I'm like, 40 is cool. But then I got to 50 and now I'm at 54 and nobody tells you the 50. You feel like I'm rocking this shit.

50 feels good. It feels like you know some shit. It feels like you can say no to some shit. You really do know yourself. You know this operating system now. You're actually clearer about your choices, about your time, about your body and what you need, what you don't need. Some woman I did this tour of a plantation with last year. She told me the most fascinating thing. And I think that I've approached this earlier than she has.

She said, I would. She said, so how old are you? I said, I'm 50, whatever, 53 at the time. She said, oh, you're in your storytelling season. She said, for a long time, you're telling stories. She said, when you get to my age, about 60, you move into your truth-telling season. And I was like, oh, what's that? She says, if someone says, hey, do you want to do that? You just say no.

And I said, with no qualifiers? With no but? She said, no. No people pleasing? That's it. You stop the people pleasing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's more being very clear. And she didn't say it in this callous way. Like, you can't be concerned with other people's feelings. But you're like, that's basically it. Last night, Monica and I had a debate for 35 minutes. It's hypothetical. Like, what if David Letterman called me and said, I want you to come over for dinner. I worship him. We want you to come over for dinner. I'm going to dress up.

She's like, will you dress up? And I said, absolutely not. I don't like to dress up. That's just truth telling season. Yeah, I'm not comfortable in a suit. I want to enjoy myself at his house in a suit. And she said, well, what if he's offended? And I was like, I mean, that's on him. That's on him? Dude, I'm with Monica, all right? So I'm going to have to co-sign that. Yeah. So why do you think he has to dress up? Okay, okay. Oh, God. Let's unpack this, Monica. Okay, let's unpack it. But she's 36. 36.

You're still in your storytelling season. I'm sorry, she was born in 36. Well, okay. It's a longer premise. It got thwarted by the clothes. But what I was actually trying to ask, similarly, because Dax has a very specific food regimen, because he has arthritis. He can't eat gluten and can't eat garlic. There's a lot of things. And I said, what if Letterman invites you to dinner and he cooks?

There's gluten in it? Yeah. Well, the whole thing's a mess. It's a garlic gluten. It's a garlic bread party. Okay. What do you do? Yeah. I was like, do you just eat some? Because he made it and he invited you over and he put all this thought and time and energy in.

what do you do? And he said he won't eat it. And I was shocked. Well, no, listen, Monica, I think you have to tell him because you have so many dietary restrictions, you have to set up the room. Absolutely. I go, God, I see you've worked so hard on this meal. It looks delicious. And I would love to eat it, but I'm allergic to garlic and I'm allergic to this. And tomorrow my wrists won't work. And I'll be like, fuck you, get out. Eat this dinner and get the fuck out of my house. I spent 18 hours on this garlic. You're going to be allergic to this dick. Exactly. No.

You're supposed to be allergic to my foot, you ass. How about that? How about that? How's that sound? Young man. Exactly. How about I eat that shit and get the fuck out? Basically, yeah. How do you got to set it up, though? Well, exactly. So it's...

It took him a minute to get to that speech. Originally, it was just, no, I would never. I wouldn't do that. I'm not going to hurt him. Well, my point was, no, I will not harm myself to make someone else happy. I'm not going to, like, give myself swollen joints. Which I get. Now, let me get back to clothing, though. So, you're already not going to eat the man's food. Yeah, exactly. Okay. And you're going to just show up in, like, a t-shirt and some booty shorts? What are you doing? Thank you. I think you're moving over to my side is what it sounds like. You added booty shorts. Okay.

I've got to evaluate his comfort level with seeing me in booty shorts. Ha, ha, ha, ha.

What if he's like, "I need you to arrive in booty shorts." No problem! I got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, great. Like, you can objectify me. Just don't make me uncomfortable. Don't make me unwell. I told Monica, I get somewhere with a suit, I'm like, "I'm wearing a jacket." No one would go somewhere to eat and keep their fucking coat on, but that is what a suit is. You already have a shirt on, but now you're also wearing a coat and there's a button. Do I have it on? Do I sling it over my fucking chair? No one else is doing that. So wait, you don't fuck with suits?

I have to occasionally. I got to go to premieres occasionally. I got to go to events that require them for sure. I was just wondering your disdain for suits, like on a level. I'll wear them when I have to, but not socially as a requirement of our friendship. As a requirement of my job and my profession, yeah. I actually don't think that dinners, unless they say, please dress with a certain attire. Oh, that was part of it. Well, sort of. He says, in this invented hypothetical, he says, I'm going to dress up.

Everyone's going to dress up. No pressure. He's being nice about it. Great. No pressure. Well, the moment they said no pressure, that's the qualifier, though. But if everyone's doing it. Yeah, he said no pressure.

That's where it gets into the actual real stuff between Monica and I, which is Monica grew up other in Georgia. I did not. I don't mind sticking out. I think that is something because she and I. People are looking to say you don't belong there. Abso-fucking-lutely. You have to actually show them clothing. And I talk about this all the time. Style. People make lots of comments on the way I dress. And it's all very conscious behavior.

because I know I'm being watched even more so. So I need to be more meticulous in the storytelling that I'm doing with clothes. And it's cool if you love clothes. Like Monica loves clothes. She loves shopping. She loves style. She reads the stuff. That's awesome. My thing's cars. You're never going to see me show up in a fucking car that's not stylish. You'll always see me get out of something with 700 horsepower, period. I ain't getting out of anything with less power. Right, right. So that's just my thing. Yeah. Wait, let's get into this. But let's go really quick back. Yes, being excluded...

People are standing in line to exclude you two. Yeah. They weren't standing in line to exclude me. I have my own story that I was white trash and I'm excluded from high society and people with money. And so weirdly now the tattoos and now I wear t-shirts and I'm checking in on the Four Seasons. I love it. It's kind of a fuck you. Oh, guess what? I am here because I have this credit card in my hand. Tough shit. So I've gone...

Even a step, and I get my own perverse joy out of like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm here because guess what's sad news? I have this credit card. You know what's wild though? I feel like it works differently here in the States than it does abroad. I just came from a long trip abroad.

Where I did notice that the way I dress, I mean, they're still very old school in their thinking. But as a black man walking into any five-star institution, they have a whole idea about you. And here, you can walk in with tattoos, whatever way. And people are like, no, you got money. You stay here. Money's the thing. Money's the thing. Yeah. Because that's America. But you go to Europe and they're judging you. So I had to dress up so they can understand.

understand the story walking in. And that's the actual kernel of why I reject the whole thing, 'cause I do think the entire thing is based, its origin story is we're noble,

We don't work. You work. How do you know I'm noble and you have to work? Well, because I have these clothes. Fuck that. And the clothes don't really mean anything. It's just drag. The origin premise of it, I object to. Yeah, I get it. But it don't need to be that deep either. I can also step back and go like, I don't need to have that many issues about all this. Mostly, I just am comfortable in this. And I think if I'm going to be a guest at your place, you would want me to be. I want

you to be comfortable. You want to fucking wear a Speedo at dinner? Come over. It's funny. I have different levels when I have dinner parties. If I'm cooking dinner for like six hours and it's a beautiful French meal and I'm like, you know what? Actually, I'm going to say, I would love for you to dress up tonight. See? I would say that. Yeah. And I think that's fine.

fine to ask. Because people come over to my house in sweats and shit. I'm like, I've been in the kitchen for six hours. You can put on some fucking pants. That's how I sort of feel because also I cook a lot too. I do a lot of dinner parties. So I think on the other side of it, I mean, Dax cooks really good spaghetti and he does throw spaghetti parties sometimes. And you can eat it in the nude. I don't give a fuck. Loin claw. I'm down. I'm coming. However you want to eat it. But as someone who cooks a lot and it's

hard and sort of annoying, but great and fun. And it's a lot of like love you put into it for someone to come and then not eat it. I was saying that would hurt my feelings. To be honest, I do side eye people. If I've made a meal, I think I make amazing meals and there's lots of veggies and things like that. And for some reason, a lot of people still don't eat a lot of veggies, which annoys me. But anyway, I'll put a lot of veggies. It could be a simple fish. It could be a simple chicken or something, but pretty simple because I'm cooking dinner for like 10 people.

When I look over and see a plate that's like halfway eaten, I'm like, fuck's your problem. I know I am. I can't even help myself. You could try it. Right. You know, or like they're pushing all the tomatoes off to the side and everything. Because, you know, honestly, listen, me and my husband just came from Europe. We don't eat a lot of cheese. We don't eat a lot of sugar or stuff like that. But like you go to France, you're like, you know, we have cream. You're like, I'll take it. I'm not going to bitch. You don't have oat milk. You don't have almond milk. No, you have what they're serving.

And then your stomach is fucked up. And you're miserable. And you're farting all day long. You're not making love for the next two days. But diarrhea abroad is not bad, though, because you do drop a good five pounds. Yeah, well, that's true. You've got to get those things moving. Okay, but I do think this is sort of because we have had to

say, okay, I'm just going to suck this up a lot in life. Things that feel wrong or bad. It's just like, well, this is just the way it is. So I'm going to have to deal with it. You're very wise. So I want to loop you into something that's going on because it has to do with fashion, what we just talked about. So people are very mad at me right now. Well,

What'd you do? On the comments because I was talking to basically about luxury fashion. I was talking about Hermes. Sorry. And I talk about the row and I talk about the clothes I pick, which is the exact same as the car or tracking into the four seasons. It's I can have this now. And so I'm going to.

And I didn't tap it. What's the comments? I'm unrelatable now because I talk about this type of thing. Dax's bus is more relatable. Don't you stay at a Motel 6 to be like relatable? I don't know.

No, but it's a change they've seen. What did it used to be? I want to know what the story used to be. To them, I guess I didn't talk about it. I can sum it up really quick. Monica started as a babysitter seven, eight years ago, and she's building that big house across the street from us. Fuck yes. Right? So it's great. Congratulations. Now, what is relevant is, yeah, I have stuff. I choose not to talk about a lot of the stuff I have. That's pretty crazy. No, you do, though. Literally, most of that episode was talking about your bus. What's getting called out is my conversation about things.

What did you say about the bag? Oh, because I just learned about it. I listen to this podcast. It's very interesting. And yeah, I want one. $15,000 bag. It's insane. And why do you want the bag? I want the bag because you have to be invited to have it. And I was never the person invited to have the bag. So you want to have the bag as a status symbol or do you want the bag because you like the architecture of the bag? Well, I do think the craftsmanship is incredible. Okay, cool. I don't think it's a status symbol as much as a...

Why do I feel like a therapist right here? I'm just like, so why do you want the therapist? I know. We love it. Generally, we're trying to do the same thing to the guests, but this is a nice reversal. Well, it's nice to get your take on this. Because my guess, I don't know, is that you could maybe relate in the same way you can relate to walking into a place where originally you would have been fully side-eyed. I'm like, why are you here? And I still feel that when I walk into places. Like, what's this little girl doing here? And then when I take...

the bag off the shelf and I say, "I'm gonna buy this," that feels powerful. - I totally understand.

The thing that I really understand as I've downloaded what you're saying, there's two things. One is now that I can afford certain things, I actually don't want it anymore. Sure. Which is wild. I used to walk by this place and wish I could buy things in here. And I walk in, I'm like, it's not my vibe anymore. It's funny. I've become a bit more simple in what I need. Actually, I think the other stuff that I thought I needed was because I didn't have access or agency. And I felt like it would make me feel like I made it or I did something. Yes.

or I'm making money, but now I'm wearing just simple Converse. We're both in Converse, I want to point out. A little simple Fruit of the Loom t-shirt. I don't know. But before I was like, oh, now I really need that $300 t-shirt. Now I don't. But I have been known to do this. If I'll go into a place that feels like that they're almost questioning that I'm there, I've actually bought things

Out of spite. That's how I, exactly. You know what, no, I'll take that bag. Like, I don't even make a big decision. I'm like, oh, you know, I like that bag. I'll take that. And they're like so surprised it's happening that quickly too. And I'm like, yeah, do you have espresso? Do you have champagne? I'll take all of it. I won't go up. I won't go down. Box that up. Exactly. I'm going to sit down and have you run around. 100%. Because I'm paying for the whole experience. Maybe there's something that I think I need to do, not only for myself, but also for other people that look like me. So we're seen differently, I think. Mm-hmm.

I'm gonna join the chat, which is, yes, you were previously looking for external things to confirm that you were worthy and valuable, but then you gave that to yourself through your work. Yes.

And so that hole got filled by something substantive. And so the other stuff's just not as shiny. - It really isn't. - It's fine. I have a very similar thing. I coveted everything. I grew up broke. And for the last couple of years, I've kind of stopped buying stuff. I don't really care. I don't want anything for Christmas. - I like experiences. I'll spend a lot of money on a great experience.

And so I'm that person, I'll sit here and talk about Amman hotels until you're blue in the face. Until you throw up. You know what I mean? And people are like, wow, you'll spend that much money on a hotel? I'm like, abso-fucking-lutely. Yes. Because I feel like that's taking care of myself, and I've worked hard for that. I support you saying, I mean, if there's something that you desire now, isn't this America where you're supposed to want to aspire? That's what I thought. There's a paradox afoot, but they are everywhere, and that is reality, which is, yes, we are a country that the American dream is you can make anything out of yourself and accomplish great things.

We also hate rich people. - That's true. The moment you become a billionaire, suddenly you're like evil. - Yes, exactly. You're a monster. While I use your product, I'm grateful you invented it. I'm also mad at you. You made money from doing it. It's all confusing. - Isn't it wild? - It is, but it is the paradox that is the reality.

And you just decide whether you want to be conscious of it or not. If you don't care, then you live with the outcome of that. And if you do care, then you adjust. I think it's important. I naturally do it. And maybe it's my relationship to social media. I don't read a lot of the comments.

I may post something, put something out, a point of view, a slice of life, and I don't read the comments. It's almost not your business. It isn't. Of course, we all do it. Every so often, I'll scroll down Twitter, and one person can say something, and you're like, why are they being mean to me? You go to their whole thing, and they got like 25 followers, and they're mean to everybody because they want to make noise, and I feel like they're upset with their own lives, too. How can you find joy for someone else? I'm just not someone who's going to post something mean about somebody, especially somebody that

I don't know. - I'm not either, but I was. Your story is 3X mine, but what felt to me like an eternity, I was here for nine years before I successfully got one of the auditions I went on, right? I couldn't do it. And in that nine years, if you would've bumped into me, I would've talked shit on everyone. I would've told you all these actors that are working, that they don't deserve it, that that guy's not a good actor, and this person's not funny.

And yeah, I was attacking people and I was insecure and I was fearful I wasn't going to make it. And guess what? My personality reflected that at times. I'm not proud of who I was. But then as I got fulfilled, guess what? I couldn't list 10 actors I think are bad anymore. I just don't even notice. I notice great actors. I'll probably talk about that. But I'm not looking for who I think doesn't deserve to be here anymore because I'm

I got here and so I'm good. And if anyone else gets here, even if it's by accident, good for them. Like it ain't taken away from me. So I have the luxury and the privilege to be kind of nice. Yeah.

Because my life worked out pretty good. Now that brings me to another topic, kindness. I've always believed, and I think it's something that my family gave me. If they've given me nothing else, it's a gift of understanding kindness. How to be kind to people and how to look after people. How to speak well of people. So maybe it's a part of a culture that I just don't understand.

Because I've never been that way as an actor, even when I was not successful. Even if I felt like I was on the outside, I was like, you know, well, someday that'll be me. But also I want to support people on the inside and who are doing things. And when you lost roles to certain people and you saw their performance, you weren't overly critical of it? Never. But it's funny because honestly, I get dudes left and right who are just like, you know, I was up for that role. I can sit in a room with someone who I know that role was given to you because it was offered to me, but I didn't. But they will never know that.

Because they don't need to know that. But I feel like I get a lot of dudes. It's more them than me. I never felt like I'm in competition with anybody. I'm in competition with myself. Yeah. I've lost the role to a couple different people where I ended up having the privilege of meeting them and going like, oh my God, I saw it. Thank God they hired you. You're so much better than I was capable of being in it. At the time, I was like, are you fucking kidding? You're hiring that guy? And I was like, yeah, good job, guys. You did the right. Okay, but I want to go through your story. That was a fun, fun detour.

You go to Temple, journalism. I'm just going to throw this out. I think this is really weird. Ding, ding, ding. So yesterday we interviewed Marion Jones, remember? Yeah. Belize mother went to school for journalism. You got a Belize father and you went to Temple for journalism. How wild is that? Back-to-back days. Something in the chair. Belize is in the air. Central American is in the chair. Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

Okay, so obviously you're not going to Temple to act. You're going there to be a journalist. Yeah. You take as an elective an acting class. And is it an immediate spark? No. My mom told me to take it because I was taking matriculating classes and everything that had to do with journalism. She said, but also you got to take something for fun. I remember...

When I was a kid, I went to this summer program and I had a couple acting classes. I remember I had a great time with that. And I thought, well, maybe I'll do that because it'll help get me out of my shell. Again, I was very shy in high school. So I was like, I need a class. Maybe this will be fun. And I took it.

It felt so good. It felt so connected. I love the research of it all. I love the study of it. I love imagining and what it would do to my imagination. And then towards the end of the semester, my teacher, Chris, he pulled me and this other young woman aside. I wish I knew her name because we would rock it in class. He said, hey, have you two ever thought about a career as an actor?

And we both looked, she was like, no. She smiled. I think she was like, oh, I thought about it. And I was like, no. Like, I didn't know what that was. A career as an actor. I don't know how people did that. There was a rapper in my high school. Yeah. Exactly. But being an actor, I was like, I don't know. He said, I think you're very talented. He actually used the word, I think you're gifted. And he said, I'd be very curious if you followed the path.

What's so sweet is I've heard you talk about this. The power of someone telling you you're gifted. Especially a young person, those words in particular stayed with me to the point that I was taking classes off campus at the Walnut Street Theater School because I didn't want anybody to like steal my joy, to be honest. I was like, oh, I want to take some more classes. And so I would take them at night and

After I was at Temple University, I'm taking a couple classes. Invisibly, I had this secret. I wanted to be an actor, but everything about me wasn't set up to be an actor. I thought I wasn't cool. I didn't think I was much to look at. So I thought, I don't want anybody to say I can't do it. And then I moved to California soon after to San Francisco because I wanted to start a theater.

which is what I did. Really quick though, can we add in moving to San Francisco from Philly instead of moving to New York to pursue theater? It was all a life choice. One of my closest buddies, Guy Talley, he moved to San Francisco. He was like, oh my God, you're going to love it. You should come out here. I had another year to go in school, but I was struggling because my parents just moved. I was working two jobs. My college was being paid for by me and grants and stuff. And I couldn't maintain. So I was going to take a semester off. I said, well, I'll come out to San Francisco for a while. So there were three guys living in a studio apartment in the Tenderloin district.

And you're like, wow, this can be a city? Dude, yeah. So I moved to San Francisco and I thought really maybe just for like a semester, a year, and then go back to school. And I fell in love. It wasn't particularly because I was gay, but I was like, I need to move away from home to become this other thing. Gay can also represent people are going there to live out loud who they are for the first time. Forget the sexual component. People are going there to finally be who they are. I think that's exactly it. Everything about San Francisco, especially in the early 90s, it percolated with people

politics and becoming a part of something and its history of radical fairies and queer culture and Angela Davis. I'm like, yeah, I want to go there. There felt like infinite possibility to transform and become something else. I started to plant the seeds of the person that's sitting across from me. I became less shy. I became more in my body. I was doing holistic retreats. I was running around naked at Harbin Hot Springs. I was doing massage. I grew my hair out. I was skinny. I started to believe I was hot.

What a summer. Because before I was wearing baggy clothes and trying to hide. Next thing you know, I'm like, no, this is actually good. I look back now, I'm like, I had a nice little twink body. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Highly marketable. I was pretty hot back then. I didn't know it though. Isn't it funny? Because we never know when we look back, we go, oh, that wasn't so bad. I know. I was like, oh, I got a terrible body. Were you thin? Yeah, I was thin.

I want to be bigger. I thought I had a gut. I see pictures. I didn't have a gut. The same thing. I look back. I'm like, this guy's great. He's 6'2". You're like, he was fine. He was a good looking kid. Right? Do you do the same thing? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes it's still like, eww. But we all have that. Those pictures of me too. I do see some that reconfirm what I thought. Yeah. I have pictures from yesterday. Yeah, exactly. Of course, currently it always sucks. Yeah. Yeah.

It is good to cling on to that, though. Maybe if you don't like something now, in 10 years, I'm probably going to look back and think it looks great. Yeah. So just deal with it. Well, it's funny because I don't know why I'm talking about this, but when people are changing their bodies so quickly when they're young, I'm like, give yourself a chance to grow into that nose. It could be your superpower. Oh, no, totally. I kind of had a breakthrough experience.

I was on a TV show, Parenthood, for six years, and my father on the show is Craig T. Nelson. You know Craig T. Nelson? Yeah, I do. I'm like watching myself when the show airs. I'm like, my God, I can't believe they let me on TV. I should not be dating that girl on this show. This is a mix-up. But then at one point, I'm looking at Craig T. Nelson, and I decide to look at him objectively the way I look at myself. And I'm like, yeah, he's got a big nose. Yeah, his chin is this. He's balding. And I'm like, oh, yeah, I don't see that. I see Craig T. Nelson.

This man is a fucking aura. He's a spirit. He's a thing. He's specific. And I like it. And I am not looking at anything other than him in his totality. And I'm very attracted to it. And I was like, yeah, man, you got to get there. You're just this thing and you're uniquely the thing and you're projecting the thing. I bet Craig T. Nelson grew into that.

Yeah, we're all human. I'm sure he didn't. Just look at him here and go, yeah, I'm the dude from Poltergeist when he was 15.

When do you move to New York from San Francisco? Because I could see you making a whole life there and never leaving. I moved from Philadelphia to San Francisco. I was in San Francisco for 10 years. 10 years. You did like Nash Bridges and you were working a little bit. I played every idiot on Nash Bridges. That was the only game in town. You played multiple roles. I did. I came back every season with a different role. Oh, that's great. And I was some dumb criminal doing something stupid. Kidnapping Don Johnson's daughter or something. I was working out in a Coogee sweater. You got to watch the episode. Oh, yeah.

Oh, my God. The costume design is fantastic. But I was doing lots of regional theater. And then I did everything I needed to do in San Francisco. And it gave me a lot of really great gifts. But I thought, you know when you open up like the Samuel French plays and they show you the first cast? And usually they're done at the public theater or the vineyard or something like that in New York. I'm like, I want to be there. I want to do the first one. Here I am in San Francisco doing the third, fourth production. I want to be literally in the room where it happens. Originating it. The room where it happens. I know, right? Yeah.

A little Miranda in there, a little Hamilton. And so I moved to New York, and I moved to New York at 35, something like that. And were you having any stress about, I should have already been a lead of something at this age? Were you having age stress? I think I had age stress around 40-something, a good 10 years ago. It's not one of those stories of lore, but it's true. I was actually going to really leave the business because I thought I did everything I was supposed to do. And now I was in my mid-40s, and I thought, this doesn't make any sense anymore. I'm still living like...

I was 25. Doing job to job, I was succeeding too. I was actually doing Broadway shows and being nominated for Tonys and going to the West End. And I would always come back and felt like I was starting at zero. And then I would pick up bartending shifts. And I just thought, it's not practical. It doesn't make sense because I have friends who are attorneys and business people.

They have vacation homes. Yeah, I'm still, you know, in my rent-stabilized apartment in Hell's Kitchen hustling. And I start to look at the future. This was about 43, 44, and I thought, I don't know if I can keep doing this. I remember it was a terrible couple weeks of constantly auditioning and auditioning and not getting anywhere. And it just felt like I wasn't useful or anybody wanted what I was selling. And I was like, you know what?

I think I'm good. I literally had a breakdown at a gym. I don't know the real medical of a nervous breakdown, but I felt like that's what I had. Or a panic attack or something, but it felt like a life attack of me making a breakthrough and a change. And so I remember I went home and I was so distraught. And I asked my husband, I said, are you okay if I...

took a swing and did something else. Because I used to have this photography business on the side where I would do everyone's headshots. I would do yours. Yeah, I would appreciate that. If headshots usually cost 800 bucks, I'd charge you 400. I was undercutting and making a lot of money. You know, I was killing it. So anyway, so I really thought I would keep doing that and eventually have a portrait studio, all that stuff. That was my plan. I had an exit plan because I thought like this makes sense and I have to depend on myself.

New York, I was there for 16 years. And as you say, you were in some hit musicals. Huge. You were on Broadway. Yeah, it wasn't like I wasn't successful. You're in a Spike Lee movie. This is after I was in Lincoln with Spielberg. This is after all of that. If I were you, I was thinking like, yeah.

I got the shot. And it's not turning into a sustainable life. Yeah. I start to stack up working with all these people, Soderbergh, Spielberg, Ava DuVernay, you name it, Lee Daniels, and I was still making scale. I still had to keep a bartending job somewhere. Yeah, you're worrying about your insurance. Am I going to make my SAG insurance minimums and shit? I'm starting to worry about being a grown-up. This part of the life as an artist is really challenging for

me. And I just felt like I need to make another decision. I know people keep going with that and that's fine too. But for me, I was like, I don't know if my heart can take it. I felt like I was starting to become hardened in this industry. And I thought I would rather not. I started to become that person. And I was, they're not going to ever pay me. They're not going to give me that role. And that's the truth because that's the way it was. And so I had to dismantle all of it.

And then suddenly, through a series of events of changing managers, changing agents, pretty quickly, everything changed. But also, I don't even think it was just my team. I think it was me. I changed. I would say, no, I'm not available for that audition because I've got to go do this that's important for my life.

Oh, they want you to drop everything and fly to LA and test for this. I'm not available. I can do it on Thursday, but I have something that's important to my life on Wednesday. So I stopped doing that, running around, dropping everything. And so I think there is an extraordinary power in no.

Let's just say, I think universally, desperation's not attractive. No, it's not sexy at all. No one likes it. And it's hard to shake. You are desperate. The reality is, I'm in a one-bedroom apartment in Santa Monica. I'm walking into auditions. I'm fucked. This Miller Lite commercial is going to make it or break it for the year for me. And they feel it. And you can't even hide it. It's all over your body. Yeah, it's your pheromones are leaking.

This desperation. And then it's a mental trick and you go, I don't need it anymore. And all of a sudden you enter the room differently. You enter the room differently because you enter the room only with your work and the way you value yourself and they see it. But also, don't you think you have to at some point divorce yourself from the way, how can I say this? Because you just had me thinking about some people that I would walk in the room with, they were not as welcoming or supportive or nurturing as

They sort of treated you like shit or treated you just like another person or you're sitting in the lobby of an audition and you literally hear the assistant calling in everybody else for the role that you're auditioning for. You can hear them. Making the same choice you're about to make. Yeah. And also you're like, I remember walking into one network and I literally saw everyone's

headshot. It was a horrible thing. Headshot at everyone who's testing. And you're sitting there and you're like, why would they do this to me? So it was so psychologically undermining. And literally, I started to say to my agent that I used to have, I said, you know, I'm cool with not going in there anymore. If they want me, I'll do a self-tape. I started to put in some boundaries where I had some self-respect left. I don't want to walk in already feeling like shit and be confirmed that I'm not shit and then not get the fucking role. I'll tell you this because it's a terrible story.

But after an audition and this one casting director was not kind or warm and I literally looked her in the eye, started heading out. I took the sides, crumpled them up, threw them in the trash and walked out. And I said, I don't ever have to go into that office again. I deserve to be treated better. If I'm going to give my heart and be vulnerable and give my work, work that I've prepared for maybe eight hours for no fee. Yeah. Yeah.

And I come in and I deliver and you can't even be kind. I don't need to be here. So I started to make those decisions. That's when I knew I need to be out of this business. It just reminded me when you were saying that Octavia Spencer has a great thing where she says, thank him, honey. Will you come back? No, but thank him, honey. Hers is thank him, honey. I try to lock that in. That's it. It's that simple. We label one of these projects as the breakthrough.

Is it fear of walking dead? Can I tell you my experience with you? What's your experience with me breaking through a dead? Yes. I've been in AA for 20 years. So I watch Euphoria with a specific eye. Love it. Can't believe how good the show is. And then you arrive and I'm like...

I know this dude from The Rooms. This dude's in the program. You're so stunning in that role. Thank you. Truly, I'm like, get the fuck out this guy who just showed up. I haven't met him yet. You know, everyone's established. You're in a diner with her. And I'm like, please talk for three more hours, new character. I want to hear everything you got to say. The way you're dealing with her...

I think there's this tendency to play all sobriety storylines as really saccharine and fucking lofty and emotional. And it's not that. It's bare bones. Cut the shit. This is how it is. I'm this way too. Fuck it. We're going to laugh at this. It was spot on. There was something that Sam Levinson, my show and a writer director, gave me. He would place

people who were actually in the program around me. Whether it was Marsha in that diner scene, she's got this one little scene where we talk to her. I'm like, "Miss Marsha," and she'd turn around. She's someone who'd been in recovery for, I believe, 17 years.

Marsha and I, we became friends. She would tell me the wildest stories. We got good stories. Wild stories. Wild. I'm like, wild. Yeah, you want some stories? And she would tell them in such a sobering manner. And she said, listen to the way she tells stories. Watch her. Her life experience. I'd never been in recovery. I'm sure I'm addicted to something because we all are. It's all relative. Sam had written it with such...

and clarity and it's just very natural. I'm going to that one diner episode, which was really just Zendaya and I talking. Yeah. Because I put myself through my own rehearsal for it because I understood when I got the text. Oh, you're talking for an hour. This is something where it just has to be in my bones and it has to be listening and responding. There's no real performative nature to this.

In the reality of who you're playing, this will have been the 13,000th time you've told this to somebody. Because you're working with people daily. They all have the same problems. And you know it. And you've got to look and just be honest. There's no saccharine attached to it. No. In that episode in particular, which is why it was so potent, was at the end of...

It was the first job back to work. And so even all the protocols and everything, we're just so nervous and we're just so glad to be there. And so I feel like all of that went into the episode. You're probably taking your mask off right before action. Literally, I'm taking my mask off. And now two humans get to talk, which is rare. We had that value attached to it. Like, my God, I can talk to somebody.

I feel like we're doing the work that we wanted the world to do. After our summer of racial reckoning, can we just sit and be honest with each other and not blow the fuck up? Can we just bare our souls to each other and just hold that for each other? It's one of the most beautiful episodes. Oh. Also at the core, that's Sam Levinson and his questions about the world. And you had done his movie prior. I did Assassination Nation, yeah.

When I interview actors, I think there's a lot of tells in when they have repeat business with people. Like you did three Spike Lee things. Sam has you on a movie, then he brings you in for this thing. I think that says more than any words could. I think you're right. You're good to work with. You proved I can count on you. And all I'm trying to do is figure out what problem I may go away with.

when I'm directing, so great. I got Coleman here, that's done. - There's a list of directors that I know. All you gotta do is call. I don't even need to know what the role is. It doesn't fucking matter, just call me. I wanna be in your mind, I wanna play on your sets. - I've told a couple directors I worked with, like, "You do a pizza commercial, I'm in." - Those residuals, too. - Yeah, I'm fucking in.

You want to do an industrial about fucking air conditioner units? I'm there if you're there. Really, the industrial? I'm going to elevate you a bit more. Not the industrial. If my judge does an industrial, I'll go back. I promise. If Avro does an industrial, I'll do it. God, did you start out doing industrials? I haven't done an industrial since the 90s. Do they even exist anymore?

Do they? I didn't want it for Kaiser Permanente and stuff like that. Like when I'm playing a doctor. I did one. It was the lowest point of my career. It was like as AM PM commercial. Do you know AM PM? It's a gas station. Absolutely. They're like wawas. Yeah, yeah. It's not a commercial that's going to be on TV. It's going to play in AM PMs and the TV in the corner. And the director's walking me.

He's like, "Oh great, now you're gonna make yourself a Slurpee." Great, they're filming. "I'm making a Slurpee." Great, you take a sip of it. Oh, you love it. It's a great Slurpee. "All right, now we're at the hot dog machine. You make the hot dog, go and put some ketchup, mustard on it. Great, you can't wait to eat it." But then you think, "You know what? I'm gonna play this hot dog like a harmonica." Coleman, this is reality. I look up and I go, "So I make the hot dog and I think I'm gonna play this hot dog like a harmonica?" And he goes, "Yeah, it's gonna be great."

And I was like, here we go. One, I start playing a goddamn hot dog like a harmonica and my soul caught on fire.

And who was the director? The director was Spike Jonze. No, don't get me wrong. The heck was in Ritu? So yeah, I see you in that. Now I notice you everywhere, right? Then I'm watching Beale Street and I go like, oh fuck, that's my dude. I've been like squirrely for years. And nobody could put together that it was actually me, which is kind of cool. It's a real testament to you too. And then weirdly enough for me still, having seen Euphoria, having seen Beale, having seen We Had and some people for The Color Purple.

Even in that interview, I said you were my favorite part of that movie. And I'm like, oh, my God. Again, that's the dude. And then learning about who you are personally today, enormous departure. What are you talking about? A skinny kid, shy, list, gay, all these things. You're literally a chameleon. Like, you can be anything. None of the you was seeping through. But I then got curious. So I watched Sing Sing two nights ago. Oh, wow.

Fucking loved it. Thank you. You do something that's just so rare and special. I mean, really, man, what a beautiful dude you are. It's overwhelming. So in Sing Sing, you're playing a convict. You're a convict who's also working in this program, this RTD program.

And you're a playwright and you're an actor and you're compassionate and you're leading with love and you're breaking through to these dudes. And I was thinking, ironically, this is probably the character that might most touch who you are. I think you might be right. There's a little sleight of hand that's happening because I think the character that I was conscious of building that is based on someone who was wrongfully convicted of a crime, that could be me.

who had aspirations when he was a kid of being a dancer, but has sort of gotten beaten out of him because he had to fight in tough streets. On the inside, he really did educate himself in such an extraordinary way. He pretty much can be an attorney. And he's a real dude. A real dude. John Divine G. Whitfield. And he's with us still. Oh yeah, he's with us. He's actually in the film. He plays the guy who comes up with the book.

And he literally says, hey, I've been a fan of yours. No way. That's a little cameo there. I got to know him, and he's just a cool dude. He's a sweet guy. And I felt like the idea of creating someone, a character that still has sweetness in there, and to try to protect that, and then be the leader of a program that is about healing. Wow, I'm getting emotional thinking about this. But the idea...

that in this dark space that is not really set up for your rehabilitation, you are being a revolutionary by coming together with these men. Vulnerability is weirdly the bravest thing that can be done. It's an act of disobedience. It's insanity to try to expose your vulnerabilities to people who are potentially going to prey on you. And so when you know that about a character, you know how to play it and you have to bring something a little closer to you and

and that vulnerability to shine through. I was shooting that movie in between The Color Purple and Rustin, actually. Oh, really? I was doing Color Purple when we were like, oh, we're trying to find dates to do it. And I'm like, I have 18 days before I go back to pick up shots for Rustin. They're like, we'll take them. I'm like, no, we can't do it then. But then I thought, if

felt right. And I was already in a state coming off of Color Purple. By the time I went to Sing Sing, I was, I think, in a bit more of a raw state that I think was required. I couldn't even do my work in my prep work the way I'm used to doing it, of knowing everything and detailing and all that. But I had to be in this other

- Yeah, you're used to control. You like control. - I do. I'm a research fiend. And I feel like when I know a lot, then I can liberate myself. - But guess what happens when you go to prison? All your control is out the window. - Yes. - So it's ideal. Sometimes life intervenes in these ways with roles. - I think that's exactly it. And the gift of a role or an experience as a creative

I think a lot of times if you really look at it, it's brought to you when you really need it. I know, and I don't believe in anything yet. I can't deny that that happens constantly. I needed this experience at this time. I had to be in a movie with a guy, and we play arch nemesis in the movie, and he auditioned, and I straight up hated him. Again, back to the rich thing. I knew he was a rich kid. He wanted to be off some great thing he was a part of. He seemed entitled. I didn't like him. Told the director, I'm like, I don't want to spend two months with that dude.

sat on it for a day. I'm like, I also don't ever want to be a part of someone not getting something. So I got to take that back minimally for that. Cut to day two. I fall in love with the duty becomes one of my best friends, but I've had that. This is good though, because literally I had a meeting with someone recently and this person, everything about him was privileged and everything about him was like, I don't like

this dude. And it turned me into the guy that I know I can be sometimes where I'm like, oh, you think you're smart? So you're a little shit. So I flopped up. You know what I mean? I was like, I fucking hate this dude. But his work was actually really beautiful. And I was like, how did you make this work but you're also a privileged little dick? By the way...

On the other- I'm mad at you, but I'm down with your work. Then I'm mad at myself. Yeah, I keep watching this thing you did. I hate your fucking guts, but God, you're good at it. Well, it's life, dude. So I hated rich people growing up. Well, lo and behold, I'm a rich person. I have kids that are growing up rich.

And what's crazy now is now I think I'm actually more impressed with rich kids who end up doing good work in a movie. They didn't have to. That's true. I was hungry. I wanted all the shit. I was driven. So weirdly, I'm now on the other side where it's like, I'll meet someone who grew up in Platt. His dad is Mark Platt. He owned Wicked. This dude should be a lazy motherfucker. He's out on Broadway ripping his chest open. He's got talent like a motherfucker. Yes, but in Drive and

And so I weirdly go like, I'm not triggered that that kid grew up on a private plane. I'm actually blown away. I am. I'm totally kidding. I'm making room for all of it. I love David. He's lovely. Yes, but you know, I actually now...

I find that more impressive. He didn't have to do shit. So I don't know. Every time you get to hop into anyone's shoes, you start just seeing a little different. So what was the outcome, though, of you with the privileged dude whose work you couldn't deny? I don't know yet. You'll probably fall in love with him. I recommend going to Starbucks as soon as you get there. That could be a real breakthrough. That's what happened for us. Everything you're saying was triggering to me. I don't know why, but it just felt that he was so removed from certain experiences. I have very wealthy friends, but I feel that there's some commonality. They show me their heart and their passion.

pain in some way, but I felt like this person was looking at everything as an anthropological study. Yeah, so how did you do that? And you're like, fucking work my ass off. How do you think anything happened? So that was me. I felt like a dick when we were having this meal together. I was like, why am I being a dick? Because he's wearing his wealth in such a way. And I'm like, I've got money now too. Right. Let me talk about my money.

My money. My turn, my turn, my turn. Could you imagine? I'm just back from a very long trip to Europe with my husband. It is interesting what gets us, though. Yeah. It's telling. You know, I have some billionaire friends. The first thing I always try to do is like, I'm buying lunch. I'm buying dinner. I'm going to let you know that your money means nothing to me. I'm not here for that. Yet I will take a week at your home with a butler. Sorry.

I'll take that. But I'm buying dinner. Yeah. When we land and you're playing, we're stopping at McDonald's and that's on me. That's on me. Don't you try to put out your credit card at Mickey D's. Let's balance the power here. Exactly. The true statement now is that in that audition with that guy, I don't know what he thought he was. At that time, I was like, he thinks he's better than everyone. He's entitled. He's blah, blah, blah. The truth is,

His presence made me feel less than. I felt less than.

Which is my problem. Yeah. I don't now feel less than. And it's not because I got money. I don't feel less than anymore. So those people, magically, they don't trigger me anymore. I wonder why this guy triggered me. Let's have dinner tonight and we'll figure it out. Also, some people are annoying. Yeah, there are apples. I didn't feel less than. I just felt like I didn't like the way he was. There was something, I don't know. Let me be more specific. I don't even know that I felt less than in that moment. But it reminded me of a time when I definitely felt less than, which is growing up. He made me feel like I was an other.

Yeah. And I think that's the thing. Yeah. Because he felt removed from my experience in some way. I don't walk through the world that way. I feel like I have common language with anybody. Yeah, you can relate to anyone. I think so because also it's about being curious about people. A myriad of people can be sitting in this room. It's my job to find out what connects us. Yeah.

Yeah. If you're looking at someone and be like, oh, so you're tall, white, tattooed. What's that like? What's that like? Did you grow up in a single white trailer? Yes, I did. Exactly. Almost like he's studying you or something. It felt weird. It felt awkward. That's it. But again, like total benefit of the doubt, God knows what he felt. Like you might represent authenticity and he might be feeling fraudulent. So people have different levels of social skills. That's what I try to notice now. I'm like, maybe.

they're just not good at that. You're very good at it. You're very good at connecting. Personable. You're very personable. You're easy to talk to. I think you take that for granted because that's just who you are and that's the way you go through life. But a lot of people are not. A lot of people are rough around the edges. Yeah, and are hard and they struggle with how to communicate and be social. Maybe that's it. Maybe you just couldn't

you just couldn't do it. Yeah, I'm walking in there, big Hollywood star. Yeah. Tall, gorgeous. Long legs. Loaded. Booty shorts on. I mean, it was intimidating. Maybe that was me. Yeah, it could have been you. I love the way we reinterpret it now. Like, it was all me. I think you're the dick. I think we decided you're the dick. I'm the dick actually at the table. I was the dick at lunch. It's important to know who's the dick.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's hard to know. One breakthrough moment I had is I was directing a movie. My mom was doing craft service. It was very low budget, family affair. And there was a PA on the thing. And he was objectively had a terrible personality. And we would come home every night and my mom would just unload about how condescending this kid was to her all day long. So condescending. And I just had this moment where I thought, oh, you know, it's funny is I had title of director. It's been established. I am the boss there.

I'm number one. So when that kid was being condescending to me, it was easy for me to see he's got a terrible personality. He certainly doesn't think he's above me. We all know I'm at the top of this pyramid. And I was like, oh, wow, that's kind of a breakthrough. Same personality. But if I weren't director, yeah, it would driven me crazy like it drove my mom crazy because she thought, oh, this kid thinks he's above me. I'm craft service, blah, blah, blah, which is all our own story.

But just the dumb title of director made me just see, oh, this guy just has a bad personality. It's not fun at parties, probably don't have a lot of friends. No one wants to date him. That's where it ended. Right. Because I was director. And I was like, you got to walk through life and just convince yourself you're director and everyone's thing is just their thing. That's a great way to put it. But also that's a very generous way to put it as well, too. It's just like, no, you just have a shit personality. Yeah. And I'm more evolved. It's not personal. You're going to act this way to everybody, not just me. Yeah.

What's the real history of the Sing Sing story? There's an RTA program that started at Sing Sing. I'm just ballparking like 10 years ago. But it really is a rehabilitation through the arts program. This guy Brent Buell and a lot of members founded it. But they started at Sing Sing of like putting on plays.

And I think the intention was not only put on plays, but eventually what the idea of the practice of this does. Research, teamwork, putting your feet in someone else's shoes, expressing emotion. It became a tool for rehabilitation. By the way, I have all these sides of myself. I would never show anyone because that's too dangerous, but I get to do it as a character. So I'm safe. I have distance. You can explore all of it. And so they found that it's been a really great program. And actually, there's a less than 3% reincarceration rate amongst people who go through that program. Wow.

Versus, I think the number of recidivism, hard word, is in the 60s or 70s. It's high. Very high. This program works. How did it come to you? It came to me by the director Greg Kwidar and Clint Bentley. They did the movie Jockey a few years ago. It was a beautiful film. I saw that, but also my agents were like, "Oh, I think you would really like these two guys." They said they wanted to meet with you at some point. They had this idea that they'd been wrestling with for years.

but they haven't figured it out. And I was like, can we set up a meeting? I'm like, cool, let's set up a meeting. Why not? So we had a Zoom. Honestly, they seemed like almost too nice. I was like, nobody's that nice. Boy, the body. That kind. Surely not in Hollywood. So I was like, okay, but I was suspicious. They were like talking about what they wanted to do and why this program was important and all that. And I was like, okay, two lovely white guys. Let's see what you're going to do.

And then they even talked about the model that they wanted to build this film off of, of like making sure it's a community-based model. We wanted to involve some members of the RTA that was formerly incarcerated in here as actors, as co-writers, and also make sure they also participate in success when it comes to building the equity and everything. So the whole model was really like, hmm, really? You're going to be that generous? You're actually putting your money where your mouth is. And thoughtful and kind about all of it, truly in practice. And they've never failed so far.

All the way through. Well, one of the coolest parts of the movie, the movie on itself is fantastic. I would say there's two really predominant reasons. But then you get to the end, you're seeing footage of the real plays, which is so heartwarming. And then you're going through the credits and we find out virtually everyone in the movie...

save a few of you, are the dudes from RTA. Yeah, that's so cool. And you're seeing them as himself, as himself, as himself. And then the cherry on the cake is like, fuck yeah, these dudes got to be in a movie after all this. A lot of them are producers on it. It's really cool. So the two things that are overwhelming about it are your performance. And then who's your co-star? Clarence Divine Eye Macklin.

What a name. My goodness. Tell me about him. So really quick, the premise, we meet you, you're kind of the leader of this group. You write, you help direct, you really connect with people. Side note, Monica, you'll love this. Just watching them do the dumb acting exercises you used to do when you were a kid. Everyone get up.

and move your body, we're walking in a circle. Now you're walking like a zombie. To watch grown men doing this is actually really a treat. It really brought me back to those exercises and I was like, yeah, this pursuit is cool. You gotta get up and embarrass yourself and make yourself vulnerable. But also, to make yourself vulnerable in a maximum security process is kind of wild. And then you meet Clarence Devineye Macklin, his character, based on a version of himself.

Who was a shit starter? He's there fucking dudes up. He's thriving in that was his there They wanted to get some new members for a play and they thought oh this guy is a performer He's got all these attributes. It's kind of cool. And then you don't even know that this dude actually a quote Shakespeare He's actually really smart So we invite him to join the group he comes and checks it out and becomes a bit of a superstar but then he also has to fold himself into a

this group and sort of the ethos of the group and how do we protect it and make sure that this is a safe space to do this work. He's having a real hard time taking the armor off. Yes. And Coleman's character penetrates him in this most beautiful way. You guys have a dust up and he calls you the N word at the end. You've been taking it on the chin, taking it on the chin. You've been acquiescent. You're trying to cool him down and deescalate. And he says that. And then you go, hey, we don't use that in here. It's beloved.

they don't use the N-word. They're like, we call each other beloved. What an awesome thing to call. The idea of calling another man beloved. In that place. I mean, that's a revolution. That one sentence of the movie, I was like, oh, God.

To call someone beloved. So wait, that actor. Oh, he's fantastic, isn't he? He's outrageous. Has he been in a lot of stuff? No, this is his first film. He was really in. Yeah, he was in Sing Sing. He went through the system and he's been out for years and doing incredible work with youth where he lives in Connecticut. When Greg said, we have an idea of someone who could be your co-star, he went through the program. We met and immediately...

It was fire. We were like, oh, we can create many things from this. And so we thought about the themes of brotherhood. I'm like, no, these two should be at odds and they should build to realize they need each other. I cannot believe that's his first movie because I was watching it at first. He's so authentically a bad motherfucker. His swagger, the way he walks around. I feel like he's been ready for this for a long time. He always says that he's so glad that he found this.

because it really has been sort of a life preserver, especially finding himself as an actor. He needed this outlet. He's like...

If I had this outlet before I went in, I would have never been in. Oprah said in an interview, everything that has built me as Oprah Winfrey, in some way I'm paraphrasing, is the same stuff where I could have been an incredible criminal. It's the same mindset because you're so smart and you know how to work systems in many ways. So it is that gift he's been given. Obviously, this is the intention of the movie, but you can't help but see it and think, oh yeah, we've got 2 million people sitting in cement boxes in the country.

And look, a lot of them need to be there. It's not safe for them to not be there and to hurt other people. Given that, do we need to make it hell for them there? Do we need to be punitive? Do we need to remove them to keep people safe? Or are we there to make them suffer and be punitive and get revenge? Because I think we all know enough that

There's a lot of predictable events in people's life that put them there. So they already have the shit end of the stick in childhood, which has landed them there. And now they're there. And should we just keep ratcheting the fucking screws on all these people? Or should we attempt to help them find some humanity in this impossible situation? It does feel like it's available to those who are ready for it and say, no.

Help me be better. And I need tools. I think that's what RTA provides. They look at it as something sacred. You can't just easily get into RTA. Clarence will tell you he had to not have any infractions for a solid year before he can get in there. He had to do the work. Yeah. I'm ready to be there because I need this. I'm going to respect it and value it because it's something I want to change my life. Yeah. Yeah.

Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. I guess a better way for me to say it is when you see these people get to experience this little sliver of humanity and compassion and connection and vulnerability, you know,

What you can't deny is, all right, they actually need it more than anybody. Absolutely. Yeah, it's very moving. It's fantastic. Thank you. You've written a lot of stuff, too. You're a playwright. You've had a lot of stuff produced. Very impressive. You're going to do Nat King Cole? Eventually, yes. That'll happen hopefully in another year or so. I think that that's been pushed back a little, just so we can build it the right way. And you're playing Joe Jackson? Yeah. And Michael? Yeah. Antoine? Antoine Foucault. Yeah.

When's that start? We wrapped that. Oh, you already did it. Oh, I did it. That was Joe Jackson and everything. Oh, wow. Can't wait to see your Joe Jackson. You want to see what I look like? Yes. I'll give you a sneak peek here. Yes, yes. You've been so busy. You've been thing after thing after thing. It's been a real auspicious time. You had great frustration, but now on the other side, do you feel gratitude it happened later for you? The things were always going to happen when they were supposed to happen. I was just attached to being a working actor, to be honest.

There was no way I could predict the success or even dream about it. I don't know what that says about me. Did I have a limited imagination? But I just thought, I want to be a working actor and work on things that were important to me. Whoa. I mean, dude.

I'm not sure I would know it was you. Definitely not. Oh, my God. Isn't it wild? What do you feel like when you would look in the mirror in your trailer? Wow. Does that look do all the work for you right now? You have prosthetics. Can I say something, Dicey? You look a lot lighter in that. Well, he is lighter. He is, right? So you would have full, lighter skin. The makeup team and the prosthetics team, they did killer jobs. I can't.

overact that. I just have to let that happen. You know what I mean? You're like, no, I need to dial it back a little bit because that is, that's a lot. The look is doing a lot of the lifting for you. Did he make you box? Box? Isn't that Antoine's thing? He makes the actors box? No, he didn't make me box. I'm sure he boxes. I mean, his body's ripped. Yeah, yeah. I think he's had many of the actors in the past box. Well, now I'm jealous.

Yeah, if I were you, I might have a chip on my shoulder. I'm going to call him and be like, why didn't I box? Why wasn't I good enough to box? What do you think about? What's your stereotype about me? Also, I'm rich, motherfucker. I'm rich, too.

I'm on my way to eat a very pricey meal. I'm on my way to Air One. I was going to $100 on a drink. Exactly. Well, shit, Coleman, I'm so delighted that I got to meet you in person. I'm such an enormous fan, and I'm so excited that you're going to get to do all this stuff now. Thanks, man.

And you're going to just stick around because you're so fucking great. This has been really lovely just like kicking it with you guys. Oh, good. You're wonderful. You live in New York? No, I live here. Oh, you do? Yeah. You know, I still give off New York. I think that's what it is. How long have you lived here? Nine years. Really? Do you miss New York? No.

No. You got a yard and stuff? I served my time. I have a house in Southeast LA and I just bought a house in Malibu. So I like a peaceful existence. I was plugged into the New York life for many years. It's like being on coke for a decade. That's exactly it. Being on speed, actually. I literally lived at 43rd and 9th Avenue. Yeah, you're plugged in. You walk out of your house and you're like... Well, yeah. I always tell people, yeah, I walked out of my building and something had happened. Yeah. I don't like that anymore. Yeah. I'm 54. I want to control my environment. Yeah.

I wake up early and go for walks. I'm that dude. Fucking weather's nice. You don't have to wear 10 layers. Dinner parties. Short shorts half the year. Yeah, I got an invitation to go have a dinner at a farm. You don't get that in New York. I was like, oh, it's a farm. How lovely. Oh, hi. Why not? You know what I mean? It's that life now.

Oh, I love that for you. No. Well, shit. If you're in L.A., I can't wait to bump into you. I'm going to be on high alert now. Yeah, man. Well, Coleman, great meeting you. Everyone sees Sing Sing, and then everyone's seen Michael. I think everyone will have the joy I did. It was like once you fall in love with you, you're like, oh, right, that was him. There he is, too. Look over here. So enjoy that ride. Be welcome back. Thank you. I appreciate you, Zax. Thank you, Monica.

I sure hope there weren't any mistakes in that episode, but we'll find out when my mom, Mrs. Monica, comes in and tells us what was wrong.

Okay, so we're going to start this fact check with some updates for you guys. Yes. We're going to loop you in. I see in the comments people have some curiosities about our new deal at Wondery. Of course. And so nothing's changing. That's the big headline. Wherever you listen to our show and however you listen to it, you will continue to listen to it just as you prefer to listen to it.

So that's the most important thing. For armchair expert. For armchair expert, yes. We are making some changes, which we will also talk about right now. Yeah. But yes, for armchair expert, you can listen absolutely anywhere you currently listen. Yeah.

But you're getting three really rad new offerings. One is, of course, which we've already talked about, video. So we'll have video fact checks. Yes. And then we will have video experts. And that brings us to the next change, which is instead of having to wait two days between Monday and experts, now it'll be Wednesday. So now you can go every other day. So Monday celebrity, Wednesday expert, Friday we party hard, blow it out with Armchair Anonymous. Yes.

And then third, and this one excites me truly the most, you can now listen to the show starting September 1st. You can join Wondery Plus and you can listen to the show completely ad-free. Yeah.

And a week early. So these are all just, I think, fun, wonderful add-ons that are going to just make Armchair... Elevate it. That much better. Yes, I agree. Yeah, you have the option for ad-free if you pay for Wondery Plus. You get the episodes a week early. That's awesome. There'll be a period of time where you can try this all out for free as well, which is exciting. Yep, yep. And for the other shows, we are making some changes. Yes.

Because of the move, our other umbrella shows will not be on this feed, which means it won't be naturally placed into your pocket, basically. Right. So you're going to have to go and subscribe to Synced independently and subscribe to Flightless independently. Exactly. If you want to remain with those shows. And you can start that. When can they start that?

By the following week. I mean, we'll have it up before September 1st. It's not going to be up by Monday. I got you. I got you. I got you. Okay. By the 26th. Before they leave the Armchair Universe, we will have new feeds up. So I really strongly, strongly urge you to

Go ahead and search out Synced and Flightless and subscribe to those and they'll come through independently to you. There is going to be some changes with Flightless Bird. If you want to hear about those, you'll go listen to Flightless Bird. You'll hear about those.

Synced is going to move to Thursdays. Great. We'll take that spot. Yeah. In case you guys do like having something every day. You'll have. You'll have something every day. So yeah, just go, just type it in. You just type in synced. S-Y-N-C-E-D. Synced.

You'll continue to get that. You'll subscribe there. I type synced to you often. You spell it wrong every time. Do I? Yeah. Which worries me a little bit, which is why we should... It's S-Y-N-C-E-D. You add an H. I do. That's not how it's spelled, huh? No. No H. Wow. Why do I add an H? And why does it...

Yeah, that would be cinched. No, that's C-I-N-C-H-E. Weirdly know how to spell cinched, I think. I think a few other people have spelled it wrong too. So it's not just you. But even getting to the first two letters are always a struggle for me. I always want it to, I think synced is spelled P-S-Y, like psychology. I have to strongly fight the urge to type P-S-Y. And often I start by typing P-S-Y.

That's interesting. Weird, right? Synced sounds psychological. And it is. Well, it is. And it is. And it is. And reminder, we do fun stuff over there. We chit chat, Liz and I, Liz Plank and I. It's a party. It's really fun. We answer fun questions.

from listeners, which is great. I'm occasionally a guest. Yeah, you'll pop your opinions in there. Yeah, I bowl through like a loud entitled mail and drop some opinions and then I'll leave. Yeah, you've done that. Always by invitation. Always by invitation. That is absolutely correct. And you're always invited. But anyway, yeah, so those are our updates and now we'll sort of get into our regular fact check. Yeah, nothing to fear. Only bonus stuff coming in this new phase. Yeah.

Okay, so now we're gonna move into our regular- Programming? Programming. Our housekeeping is now concluded. Okay, great. We just had a very exciting first impression. First look. First look of the new video recording space. It looks really good. Rob put it together and it looks incredible. And there's lots of treats and pop-outs. Very Rob with the thoughtful gifts. So we each have our own corner of the new space. Yes.

And you have your own corner and inside of it is a cute little cartoon of Taylor writing a sandwich. Well, that's a celebrities on sandwiches account. I love that like artist. He sent us a ton. I ordered the Dax one.

Yeah, because there's one of you. There's one of Kristen. Okay. I didn't even know I was one. Like, that wasn't done just for us. That's an existing bit of art they did. Oh, I have Donald Glover on a sandwich in my kitchen right now. Oh, my gosh. Had for years. I feel anointed that I was included. You should be. It's a big honor. An honor, yeah. And you're in a chili dog, I think.

Yeah, they try to make it to the sandwich that the person loves. Yeah, I mean, there's debate on whether a hot dog's a sandwich. We won't get caught up on that. Sure, sure, sure, sure. Wow, wow, wow. There's a new painting. Mm-hmm. We should save that. Okay, that's an Easter egg. There's a few.

And some people really, because Lincoln had entered with her drawing of the Ted Seegers, people really were mad I didn't post it. Well, guess what? That's now on display. It is. Behind me. Yeah. In my corner. Yeah. And you have a corner and I have a corner. It was really cool. It's cool. Yeah.

It's going to be... And you're scared. We're scared. We're scared. I'm scared, but I'm in acceptance mode. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes you just got to accept the life you have. That's right. And be grateful for it. Be so grateful for it. But also, I do think sometimes... Sometimes I... I mean, I do have so much gratitude, but sometimes I bucket that a tiny bit because I think... I'm trying to be delicate. Okay, be delicate. Okay.

- Take your time. - I think sometimes. - Take your socks off. - It's hot. - Yeah, take it, there we go. I was teasing, but you really did need to take those off. - Yeah, 'cause it did feel hot. - Somehow I knew intuitively that you needed to get rid of those. They're also a one inch sock for the listener. So it's not like it was a wool sock up to the knees.

It was a one-inch sock. Their Bomba is no longer a sponsor, but would love for them to return because I do love that sock. We're still with them, even though they've deserted us. Exactly. We're still loyal. It's a nice, thick sock, though. It's a great walking sock. Yeah, and that's what I did. I walked. Yes. So I needed a thick sock.

Anyway, I think sometimes we can shortchange our feelings a little bit, our actual feelings, because we're just like, well, I should just, I should be grateful. I need to have gratitude. Just forget it. Right. And that's not really, I think it's,

evolved and cool but I actually don't think it's effective because your feelings are still there they stick around yeah and then they just keep bubbling and bubbling so you really have to have real peace and acceptance I think before you can have gratitude well you have to well as I've been told you have to invite them in observe them experience them and then move on yeah yeah

Exactly. Yeah. Is that what you already were saying? Do you feel like I... No, I think that it's sort of similar. You're just supposed to observe your feelings. You're not supposed to ignore them. Yeah. And you're not supposed to indulge them. You're just supposed to observe them. Yeah. Yeah, I feel this way. Yeah. And I won't feel this way forever. And... And I think for me, it's good to know, like, why I feel it. And that's it. Okay. Well, long story short, when we were down there, we did a little test fire of all the cameras. Yes.

And then we almost got into a fact check. Yeah, we had to stop ourselves. And so we already earmarked some stuff before this even started. And one of them is delayed gratification. I was asked to remind you and now I'm doing that. Okay. All right. So a couple nights ago, I stayed up until 3 a.m. Okay, naughty girl. Yeah. Uh-oh. Well, first of all, I couldn't sleep. And then I thought, what should I do about this? I'm going to take matters into my own hands. I'm going to watch TV a little bit. Sure. Sure.

Which is what they say not to do, you know? Well, I've heard different things. The one I'm in favor of is like fighting it makes it worse. Yeah. Enjoy it. Okay, I'm up. Let's watch TV or read something fun. Exactly. And stop thinking about the fact that you're supposed to be sleeping and that'll generally lead to sleep. Yeah, I think reading would be better. The best. Yeah, I don't think they think light is good for sleep. They love blue light for sleep.

They like red light. Yeah, I know, I know. They hate- Dude, they like red light, right? That's like a thing. They hate blue light. Yeah, yeah. Which your TV primarily is, I guess. Or your device. My device. It was a computer. Oh, you were watching- Why would you watch on your computer? So this is where we're heading. Okay. Now, I'm actually reluctant to even say this because I feel hurt, personally offended that none of these people have been on the show.

So I don't want to shout it out, but I can't not. I love Only Murders in the Building so much. Yes, yes. And I always have. But they're also a sponsor, so you can shout them out. Yeah, we read an ad for it, so that's good. This is also just, I love it. I just love it. And the fourth season's coming out. And I got sent screeners. The screenies.

And I told myself I wasn't going to watch them because I love it so much and I want to watch it real time. It comes out at the end of August, I think. So soon. But then when I was killing time at midnight, I was like, maybe I should just put on an episode. Okay. I can see the slippery slope. Yeah. I want to add one thing too while we're talking about it because we had been watching The Boys ahead of schedule.

one of our favorite shows on Amazon, we had screeners. And then we had started one on that streaming device where you can watch things early. And all of a sudden I was like, oh, I actually think it's out now. Like, I think it's actually now out and I think all of them are out. So we went over to, I'm like, let's go over to the real feed on Amazon and

And the quality is infinitely better because you're always getting a non-color corrected, not fully sound mixed. Yeah. And it's fine because you love the show. But there's a huge leap up once it goes to broadcast. Yes. Especially that show on screeners I've watched where they don't even have special effects yet. So there was that like peenish where she goes inside it. Yeah. That was just like what it looked like on set.

Oh, interesting. That's kind of cool. That's like BTS. Anyway, so I started it. Okay. And I watched it all. Oh. I watched the whole thing. I went to bed at like 3.15. You watched it all in one sitting? Yeah. Whoa, congrats. Except two things. That's like, I just want to say to parallel it with drugs, that's like, that's a frack smoking night. It felt like it. That's like not just snorting, we're going to.

We're going to dance with the devil tonight. It felt like it. Yeah. And then at like 1.30 in the middle of my binge, I went and I ate a bunch of pretzels. Oh, wow. I don't even like pretzels. Yeah. I was, I was, it was like a midlife crisis. Okay. Your parents had just left or they were about to leave? They. They left that day?

They left that morning. Yeah, interesting. So maybe I felt like I'm a kid again. I'm a naughty kid on my own now. Get out of here, parents. I'll watch TV till 5 a.m. I'll eat ice cream at...

I'm gonna reclaim myself as my own person. Maybe that is why. Probably not. Well, the timing's interesting. They left and then you couldn't go to sleep. Maybe, well, I have not, I've not been sleeping well at all. So it's not new, but also I think I was sad that they left. Okay, great.

I mean, not great, but yes, also great. Yeah, I do feel like... Better than being happy they left. Yeah. When they left, I felt like, oh, that was really nice and grounding, actually. Yeah. So then they left, and so maybe that did play a part in it. I don't know. Yeah. Anyway, I watched all the screeners, but they did me dirty. Do you know about Did Me Dirty? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

It's hard to know. But yes, I do know what being done dirty is. Okay. Well, I'm just trying to figure out where we separate. Yeah, that's smart. For the most part, unfortunately, we don't separate that much. Yeah. Unfortunately for me. Well, I was going to say in an even meaner, probably more accurate critique would be like, I'm a little better than my age. Oh, no. And you're a little worse than you're. Dad, why are you doing this? I didn't know. I mean, I think that's the actual facts.

I think I'm a little more dialed in than most 49-year-olds. Yeah. I just... Maybe. Probably because we interview young people and I have young kids, whatever the case. Sure. And then you might be like... You might be more like testing at like 39 for your awareness of cool new acronyms. I'm at 37. You're not? In a week and a half. In a week. Okay. But right now you're 36. But 37 is...

Like old to know the vernacular. That's fair. I think I'm doing better than. Oh, you think you're doing better than your average 37-year-old? Yeah. Okay. I do, I do. All right, great. Okay, anyway, they did me dirty. Yeah. I think they left the last episode off. They sent seven episodes. Oh, yeah, there's probably no way it's seven. The way it's unraveling, I think there's one more. Yeah, okay. So now I've fucked myself over two times.

One is now I have nothing to look forward to, which I already was like excited to have some weekly show to look forward to. And now I have to wait so long. Well, although that could be a great excuse to rewatch, which would be nice. I will. Because that's what I did to myself with Fallout. I got some screeners to do the interview and then we were out. Yeah. And I had just had to wait.

And that was rough. There's 10 episodes of season four coming. Whoa, good. God, I have three more. That's better. That's better. Much better. Okay. You're only halfway through the season in a way.

I'm gonna rewatch them tonight. I mean, you're 70% through the season, but... I'm gonna rewatch them all tonight. Sick. Okay. Do they drop those weekly? Yeah. Uh-huh. Okay. It's so good. I love that show so much. Is the season great, this season? The season's great. They're always great. They just put me in such a good mood. I thought Martin Short was coming on. What happened? I know. He's not. We're friendly, Martin Short. Can you text him? I don't have his number. I guess we're not that friendly. Oh, boy. Oh, boy.

I guess that would... That's a good indicator. It is a great indicator that we're not really friends. Well, I'm friendly with Selena Gomez too in that way. Because you're on DM or just how? Oh, I just like her a lot. No, no, no. And I bought rare beauty products. Okay. I have hung out with him. I did spend a week in the summer with him one time in Canada.

And then I have seen, you know. Selena and I have mutual friends. You do? Who? I can't say. Why? Because it's a secret. I think that mutual friend would be flattered. No, it's a secret. Or you're nervous the mutual friend shouldn't have told anyone they were friends. Okay. Liz? No. No, no, no. But I love her. We love her. We love her doc. Yes. I love her makeup. Oh.

And I love. We're all in. Yeah, we're all in. What, how was the next day? So that was Wednesday night. So then what did you wake up at? I was so tired. Yeah. And I had, I had a meeting at 10. Oh, oh.

Or 9.30 I had a meeting. Okay. It's all a blur. Go on. I had a bunch of meetings and I had to look alive. Yeah. And you were struggling. Yeah, I was struggling a little bit, but it was worth it. Then I started to do it last night again, but I didn't. I stopped myself. What were you going to do last night? I started that presumed innocent. Sure. Jakey G. Jake G. JG. JG. Jagers. Jagers.

He's great in that show. Of course. He's great in everything. Did you notice his sunglass thing in the first couple episodes? He, like, wears them, like, around his... No, I know. I did notice that. I thought it was going to be a callback later, but it doesn't. It was just a weird choice that he made. Yeah, he wears them and his button down, like, mid. Cool. Maybe that could be a new Gen Z thing we don't know about. He probably saw a guy who he was modeling his character after who did that. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, exactly. That's probably what happened. And no one knows except for that original guy why it's like that. Just like I only know the friend of a friend. That's right. It's cool to know things only you know. But I want to say he's on, I just want to applaud that, like, I think Roadhouse is like the biggest, most streamed movie. Awesome. Enormous hit. Yeah. On streaming. And then that thing is constantly number two on Apple. I think that thing has done extremely well as well.

As well, as well, as well. Well, I started it. That's going to be the new catchphrase, by the way. As well, as well, as well. Oh. Hello, hello, hello. Oh, God. It's Bob Durst calling. Yeah. What do we need to sell? He says that? Yeah, he's trying, he's going to like, you know, he's got to mount a...

A legal defense after he gets incarcerated at post the show. Yeah. There's all this footage of him in the jail cell talking to his wife. And he's like, what's happening in the Hamptons? Do we have that house still? She's like, yeah. And he's like, what is the market good? And she's like, Bob, yeah, it's like three X. It's probably worth like 30 or $40 million. She's like, oh, okay. Okay.

He has no idea if he has a house that's worth 40. Who's his wife? Oh, wow. All I can say, and are you familiar enough with the song, You Had to Be a Big Shot, Didn't You Had to? The Billy Joel song? Yeah, I do. She is the woman in that song. She's like a scene-ster in Manhattan, and she has made it through. I applaud her. She's a survivor. Okay. And she is like...

Been weirdly married to Bob Durst and managing his life on the sidelines, but not with him. It's very interesting. This is so interesting. Tell me. This is like the, this is the women who own tigers. Yeah. It's the same mentality. Or Giselle.

Whoever was with Epstein. Yeah, exactly. There's something very. Now, let's be clear. I'm not comparing Bob Durst's wife to Ghislaine. She was a criminal. And she aided in all of this. Yeah, so I just want to be clear about that. But yeah, these people who can dance with like a real dark character.

and get what they want. - I know, I find it very fascinating. And like, what have they told themselves? That's really what I wanna know. What have they told themselves to justify all this and to fulfill them? - Yeah.

Well, to me, of course, it's easy to be judgmental on the outside of New York, but clearly LA is the same way and it has its own crazy heightened culture. Oh, yeah. And status is so on display. Yeah. But definitely when I'm watching the Dursing and I'm watching the wife and it's a real estate family worth billions, old New York stuff. Yeah.

There is a whole tier of people who are just like, they're socialite. They're actually socialites. Like they've found a way to be wealthy and they just go to restaurants and they go to different things and art showings. And they just try to get in the paper at some once in a while. It's so fascinating to me. Yeah, like they hope that page six will be whispering about them or something. But then why would she, if she's in that group, why would she attach herself to...

Robert Durst. I mean, she's got it. Does she already have it? I don't think she came with her own money. Oh, I see. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Again, maybe she'll sue me. Maybe she is. But no, I mean. No, this is all alleged. This is what I think. Yeah, these are just our thoughts. Yeah. We don't know anything factual. But one would, let's put it another way. I have a very hard time coming up with an explanation for why one would be linked to a convicted murderer and someone who did something.

was acquitted of a murder but admitted to a murder. Yeah. If you stick with someone who's murdered multiple people and financial gain's not part of the motivation, I'm even more confused about you then. So this is maybe even my most generous guess at what the motivation is. Yeah, you want a tangible answer that's not just like psychologically it's interesting. Like that's a little creepy but probably might be more accurate.

Yeah. Okay, that just reminded me that we had a really interesting question on Synced a few episodes ago. I forget when. That I wonder what your opinion is on this. It's just very thought-provoking. Okay, great. Someone wrote in that they have been dating someone for a little while and they really, really like this person. It feels like a really healthy relationship, really good, very respectful, all these things.

And then her friends came to her and they said that they found out that he was on the sex offender registry. Okay. So she confronted him about it and he told her. Hold on one second, though. Mm-hmm.

I'm already intrigued by like, have you ever had friends that went to look at it? No, this is odd. That's already really, there's so much already there. I know, which is part of it. Does she have a crazy history that her friends feel that protective of her? Or they got a vibe from him. It's just already quite interesting that they on their own went and searched the sex registry for the new boyfriend. Or maybe like.

He had a vibe or something? Either he had a vibe or they... Even if someone had a vibe, do you think your next move would be like, I'm going to go to the... People, I will say, especially nowadays because of social media, people do...

intense deep dives. They frequent those sites. Yeah. Okay. Or I don't know about those sites. Have you ever searched to find out? No. No, me neither. But I also don't, I'm not as, like, I could maybe. Okay. So she confronted him about it and he told her that he did finger a 15-year-old. Okay. When he was

I forget the age, and it seems important. It does. 60? Let me see if I can find that specific one. That was from like two lists ago, right? I think two, two or three. Okay, so when he was 20, he fingered a 15-year-old he met through Facebook. Okay, yeah. So when he was 20, and he went to jail. Oh, my God. Right? Right.

Isn't that what it says on there? Yeah, he went to jail for three months and did six months of group therapy and then four years of individual therapy. So the question was basically, can I still date him? Yeah. And my answer was yes. Yeah, same. Okay. I wondered if you... Because you have some sensitivities around that. Well, there's a few things like going on. And I'm, of course, giving the greatest benefit of the doubt. But I can at least...

crafted narrative where it's like, okay, it's not like you met her coming out of her ninth grade class, right? So like, first of all, sure, you're like, you see someone, in the age gap, 20 to 15, it's not like people look that different, right? But he knew, it says, he knew. He knew. Yeah, he knowingly did.

Do it. Yeah. He said that to her. The reason I said it was okay is because of the way he's handling it. Yeah, I agree. Like, he did the time. He did the therapy. He's honest about it and not lying. And not being defensive. He's just telling her. I mean, Liz was a little bit like he should have told her. But I was like, how is he going to –

I mean, I think he should have told her, but I don't know about the timeline. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. You want to probably be given a fair shake. I think so, too. I'm not like probably on a first date telling a girl, I tried to rub 7-Eleven and I drove drunk seven nights a week and I had X amount of sexual partners. That's all to come.

Yeah, that's like a slow burn. Yeah, I'm not leading with the laundry list of terrible things I've done. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, I just thought, I wondered if you were going to have a different take. Yeah, I guess if I'm being dead honest, what I'm probably trying to assess in that situation is like, do I think this person's a pedophile?

Because do I think pedophilia is easily treated with a few months in jail? I don't. No. And if it's a 30-year-old and a 12-year-old, like to me it's just like very black and white. Okay, this is like you're attracted to young people. When you're 15 and 20, I would be hesitant to label that pedophilia. Right. I would not advise someone to date a pedophile.

pedophile. No, no, no. It's still a thing. It's still bad. Like, I'm not saying what... The question is not what he did was bad or not bad, right? Correct. That is bad. And illegal. Which is why he went to jail. But I think for me...

I think people can redeem themselves. Yeah. But you're right. I mean, if there's like a pattern... It doesn't seem like a pathology to me. 15 and 20 is a really bad decision and he shouldn't have. Yeah. But it doesn't sound like a sexual...

Yeah. A pattern. Yeah. That's what I said. I said, proceed forward with a little, you have more information and knowledge. So now if you go on his Instagram and he's 30 and he's following a bunch of 18 year olds, then I'm like, yeah, we got it. This might be an issue. Yeah.

Well, I had an incredible couple days. And I got invited to go to the Kelly Slater Surf Ranch. Cool. Which is in the middle of the state. It's not on the ocean. Oh. And it was, I think, originally like one of these water ski parks where they do competitive water ski jumps and shit in the middle of the fucking desert. Yeah. So they took over that facility. And they still have like a little wakeboarding mini lake. Yeah.

But then next to that is this huge basin and it's 700 yards long. So it's seven football fields long. Whoa. And this huge train car basically moves down a track being pulled by a cable and it creates a wave. Wow.

And you can set it at different waves. Yeah. So it can be a perfect competition six-foot wave with the barrel at this zone and then the notes can barrel over there. It's really fascinating. Then there's an intermediate wave if you're learning. Did he invent it? He did. Did he patent it? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow, that's so cool. And it took years. Like this was a huge... He's been...

On this for like 20 years, I think. They've now been, there's more. There's one in Dubai. They're building one in Texas and maybe somewhere else. And then there's now competing groups that make these things. But I've never served ever. Were you scared? I mean, I went into it like really owning up to everybody around. I don't know what I'm doing. I was like really, because my goal was to be able to accept people

direction and advice and coaching. And so I have a bad pattern of acting like I know how to do everything before I do it. And then can fake a lot of that stuff. I can pick stuff up kind of quickly. And then I've passed some chasm where now I can't ask for advice 'cause I was already posing as someone that knew what they were doing.

So I went into it completely like, I've never done this and now I'll likely suck and let's go. And I did good. The first wave I got up, the intermediate wave and I rode it for a while. And then it progressed on day two, I started riding the CT waves they call it. So like the six foot tall waves. And I mean, mostly I have to say there is this dude there, a Tahitian dude who's like a very famous big wave surfer and kind of lifestyle surfer.

The most like... Attractive... Beam...

Like Tahitian, big, strong, friendly. And this dude would be on a surfboard lying down and he would time it perfectly. So right as I'm entering the wave and trying to stand up, he would reach out and hold my surfboard while it was wiggly so I could stand. And a couple of times, Monica, I was falling off. I fell off. Yeah. And he grabbed me in the air and stuck me back on the surfboard. Oh my God, how cool. It was...

Oh my God. Yeah, it was incredible. This guy is incredible. I fell in love with him. And so the first two days, I was definitely getting a lot of help too from Mana. But then the last day yesterday, I did a session in the morning. It was just me and I did, I surfed a bunch. And it was really fun. It was really fun. It's such a special place you're in. Like I had my own little Airstream.

Oh, fun. Yeah, for like lodging, you're in the Airstream. The food was really delicious. It was a really special, lucky...

I couldn't believe I got to be there. It was, yeah. I think people really dream of going to this place like surfers. What's cool about is when they can have a competition there and then every surfer gets the same wave. So when you're trying to judge these surfers out in the ocean, you're judging them on different waves. So it's very cool in that way. It kind of standardizes the competition.

But I was humiliated with how fatigued my shoulders and triceps got. I couldn't do the last session, which was really hard for me to admit. I had done the morning one and my arms hurt so bad when I got out that I had to like go to my Airstream and eat a leave of

But I was like, I was moaning as I went. Like I felt like I'd been in a motorcycle accident. That's how like fucking fatigued. Well, you don't use those muscles in that way. At all. Yeah. And then it's not even just the paddling. It's that you're laying on this board and you have your head pulled up. So you're like doing a crab kind of. So you're paddling as hard as you can, but your head's up. And yeah, it's really intense. Yeah. So I felt really bad.

and weak and should be discarded by society because I ran out of endurance by the end. Got it. Are you going to surf here now ever?

It's interesting. I was like, this is like the greatest privilege and gift to have gotten this experience and probably ruins me wanting to surf because if I go surf now, like I liked it for sure. It's a very cool feeling. If I go out to Malibu, there's going to be 20 people in the wave. You're competing for the wave. I don't know how to read the ocean. Like I don't know which one I should attempt. You're paddling. If I was fatigued on this wave, you know, you're like paddling out to the break.

It's so much more intense. It's not saying I won't do it. It's just I'm aware of the fact that it was a very dreamy version I got to do. Yeah. And so I'm not sure. I'll tell you this. If I ever get invited back there, I will be there in two shakes of a lamb's tail. It was just fun and novel, and it was something completely new.

I knew that I've never tried. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah. Did anyone drown? No one drowned. I have videos of me and I am so stiff. At the end of the night, they would put together like highlights of the day and everyone gathers around and you're eating dinner and it's fun. And they're cutting to people and people look awesome surfing. And when you look at me every single time, I look stiff as a two before.

I'm up and I'm doing it, but I am so stiff. And I'm like, I have got to get loose. Because I know the key to motorcycle riding is like you got to be loosey-goosey. Like you're like a spaghetti noodle on that thing. You can't be tight anywhere. And I'm like, I got to loosen up. But anyways. Cool. Well, that's fun. I'm glad you got to do that. Okay. So this is for Coleman. Coleman Domingo. Reminder to people that...

If you want to see this movie for free. Oh, yes. Yes, yes, yes. You can. One of the many fringe benefits of listening to Armchair Expert. Yes. Bless your heart. Thank you. May you rest in heaven with our one and true love. Knock on wood, please. Our Lord and Savior. You join him and walk hand in hand. Again. Um...

Okay, so you can see Sing Sing for free if you are an arm cherry. There'll be a dedicated link.

And we'll put it on stories, but we'll also put it in the show notes. And you can enter your email and location and you can redeem a free ticket and see Sing Sing at a theater. Look at this. So awesome. This is our first giveaway. We're moving more into the zone of Oprah and Ellen now. We're finally giving stuff away. It's not our stuff, but it wasn't their stuff. Let's be honest. That's true. Yeah. So I feel fine. Yeah, I'm fine. I'm fine about it. I'll try to give some more stuff away soon, too.

If people give us stuff to give you. Yes, but check that out. Yeah. And check Coleman out. And fun fact, Easter egg. On Thursday, we have another person who's involved in Sing Sing. So we got a whole Sing Sing wink, wink. Yeah, it's kind of an incarceration week. Yeah, it is. Oh, also, I want to throw this out here just because it's a very kind of landmark-y thing. So tomorrow...

is August 20th. And that is the 20 year anniversary of Without a Paddle. Separate to that, I've been in a weird sim phase where a lot of people lately have been bringing up Without a Paddle to me. Like I hadn't heard about it in a while from people.

And then like just back to back to back, I've ran into people that brought up Without a Paddle. So anyways, yes, tomorrow's a 20 year anniversary. It's a very important anniversary for me. That really starts the beginning of, you know, incredible fun life and movies and TV. Yeah. And so I am planning something special. If you're a Without a Paddle super fan, I'm trying to put together something special to commemorate this.

And what's probably happening for people who loved Without a Pedal is it always made me feel old because, as you know, I would run into people. Because it was always young people who loved it. And then they would tell me when they were a kid they liked it. And I was an old person already. But now these people, it's kind of a fuck you back to them to go like, that was 20 years ago, guys. So I'm kind of getting even, too, which is always good. Yeah, but they weren't babies. They weren't newborns. They weren't. They were like 12. But now they have to admit that they're 32. Yeah, yeah.

Age. It'll get you. It gets all of us. It'll get you good. I've been thinking about my age lately. Insofar as, do you remember when we would see like posts that's like, reminder, Brad Pitt's 50 now. I'll never forget when Macaulay Culkin posted like,

Hey guys, I'm 40 today, sorry. Sorry. Or like something, or hey, do you wanna feel old? I turned 40 today. Oh, okay, okay. Which is pretty good. Yeah, so I just, it's always Brad Pitt whenever he enters a new decade and I certainly, and mind you, he's only 10 years older than I am or maybe a little more or less, whatever.

And all those numbers seemed pretty big to me when Brad was hitting those. Like, oh my God, Brad's 50? Yeah. Now he's 60? Yeah. And I was like, oh, wow. Yeah. It's a thing, whether you want it to be or not. I know. I feel that way too. I mean, my birthday is coming up. Yeah. I've been thinking a lot about it. Have you? Good or bad things? Bad things. Bad.

Bad things. It's not even bad things. There was a meme I saw that said... Monica Padman, you're getting old. No, it just said, if you have a friend who's a Virgo, check in on them. It's their birthday month and they're probably very anxious, which is good. And yeah, to me...

it's weird because when we all think about age, we fear that what it will do is make us think about what we haven't accomplished yet. Yeah. But that's not really the feeling I feel. I feel very proud and happy with what I've accomplished. Where you're at in life. Uh-huh, where I'm at in life. And I also feel very optimistic about my future as well. Yeah. But it's just closer to death.

Okay, that's what it is for you. There is a limited time here. Yeah, it's finite. Yeah, and it's obviously- And it gets shorter and shorter. It's important for us to forget that day to day, but as a birthday approaches, you do start realizing, oh, wow, like I'm 37 years in now. I'm edging closer. Ever closer to the finish line. Yeah. Now, see, I don't have that because I feel-

really quite youthful. Like even trying to surf this week, I wasn't like, oh, I would have picked this up better when I was 25. I don't think that. I'm like, yeah, I'm in it. So my day-to-day experiential version of my age is like nothing. I'm never feeling old. I'm never feeling lazy or lethargic or disinterested or any of those things.

It's really just me stepping outside of what I think the perception of me is as I get older. Oh, yeah. Yours is how people see you. Yeah, I'm probably more distracted by that aspect of it. Well, in some ways, the beginning of what you said is the same thing I'm saying. Like, I feel 25. Like, I feel young. Yeah. And I feel that I look young. It's nothing like that. It's just I feel this way, but the reality is

I'm getting closer to the halfway point. Surely. I like being here. I'd like to be here for a long time. And that makes me a little upset. Yeah. Once you know that you will, there'll be less ahead of you than is behind you, which is definitely where I'm at. No. Well, okay. Greatest case scenario, I'm hitting 100, but that's a really great case scenario. I think it could happen.

happen so even at that this year i'd go okay well there's more behind me than in front of me no halfway but on the day one of my birthday i'll have tipped it well maybe you can live to be 101 okay tell me more we don't know what's gonna happen with medicine we don't we don't so um okay

We talked about dinner parties and that was a fun conversation. And he was saying something about making veggies, that he makes a lot of veggies. And that made me wonder how many people like veggies. Sure. So according to a 2021 survey, this is by People.

People Magazine. Yeah. Okay. 75% of Americans consider themselves reformed vegetable lovers and say they enjoy eating vegetables more now than when they were children. Well, not...

The survey also found that 68% of respondents say vegetables are being used in more innovative ways. And 52% say that this has made them vegetable fanatics. Oh, my God. More than half of people are vegetable fanatics. Yeah. I'm not seeing that, if I can just be honest. As I travel through the world, I'm at restaurants. Really?

That's not what I see. And are we counting French fries as a vegetable? No. No, right? No, well, we're not. Right, that's crazy. Okay, but there's a new, on another thing, a dot com, a poll reveals Americans' favorite and most hated vegetables. Okay? Okay.

Oh, no. Potato's got to be number one, right? Okay, I'm going to be candid that this is from Fox News. Okay. Okay. A new survey asked 2,000 U.S. residents to identify their favorite vegetable, and the new king of veggies is... Potato. Nope. But you're kind of on the right track-ish. Quinoa? No, that's a grain. Oh. What is it? Corn. Oh, sure. I know, and like, I don't really count.

Right. Yeah. Okay. Well, by the way, whether it's your favorite vegetable or not, everyone's eating more corn than they're eating anything else because it's so subsidized and it's in everything. Cracking the top three along with corn, which is 91.4% of survey respondents said they were among vegetables that they liked were potatoes. It's the best one. Barely missing out on the number one spot with 91.2% approval.

Okay. It's not the best one. I love loaded baked potato more than anyone. Potatoes au gratin. I love potatoes. Scalloped potatoes. But I would never include it

As a vegetable. To me, that is not a vegetable. Of course, in your like nice cooked meal at home where you invite friends over. Yeah. But French fries are the best thing in the world, we would agree. Actually. What? I prefer a loaded baked potato over French fries. What about the crisscross French fry at Emmy Square? That thing is like an explosion. I don't even remember it. Wow.

And I remember the broccoli salad. This is a sad day. That is great. Why is it a sad day? Yeah, that's so great. Oh, it's delicious. It's a waffle fry, right? That you're talking about? It's a waffle fry. Oh, yeah. I like them, but I don't. I want a loaded baked potato, a scalloped potato. I also love, I love a potato chip. But french fries aren't my favorite. Wow.

I mean, I love a French, who doesn't love a French fry? McDonald's French fries. Yes, I agree that if any, I'm picking that. Yeah. Okay. Carrots and tomatoes are tied for third at 89%. That makes sense. Except tomatoes are a fruit. I know, but we're going to say they're a vegetable. No, because I can't in good conscience. All right. I mean, they are counting it, but, oh, another one I'm like, eh, onions. Sure. Sure.

But not to eat, more just as a flavoring. You almost have to have onion in things for them to taste like anything. For sure. Yeah. But no one's eating that on its own. Except for in Walla Walla, Washington, where they have the Walla Walla Onion Festival and you eat them like apples. Walla Walla Sweet Onions. Sweet Onions. Never done it, but I've always been intrigued by it. Okay. What if people hook up at the Walla Walla Sweet Onion Festival? It seems a little dicey. But if they're all...

If you're all eating it, that's fine. Okay, onions and green beans, both at 87%. Where's broccoli on this list? Okay, this, exactly. Beets. Oh, here's the, we're gonna hear from the- Oh, wait, wait, wait, sorry. According to the results, our most hated veggie is the turnip. Sure, it's terrible. That's why it's got a T and an R. It's terrible.

They were trying to make it sound as close to terrible as they could. It's kind of an onomatopoeia. It is. Okay. Beets is 26%. Radishes, 23%. These are least liked. Yeah. Beets. Well, as everyone knows, I don't like beets. Yeah. Period. Yeah. Even though

And you don't have to sound off in the comments because we already heard from everyone. We already heard. We know that people are upset about it. And they can know that I'm forcing them down. Yeah. Because I know they're healthy. Radishes, Brussels sprouts. So this is all negative, which is we love Brussels sprouts. I would argue those people just haven't had a really well-prepared Brussels sprout. Well, that's what the beet people said about me. Yes, that's true. Okay. But Brussels sprouts can be made way better than beet.

I agree. That's my favorite vegetable. Yeah. It's a good one. Broccoli's my fave. Broccoli's up there for me too. What's yours? I like broccoli. I love tomatoes. No, we're not. I love potatoes. What? I don't want to count tomatoes. Okay. Okay. I love tomatoes too. If I were really counting them, I would pick that. I love iceberg lettuce.

Are you counting that as a vegetable? Barely. I just had a wedge last night again. Oh, yum. There's nothing better than a wedge, in my opinion. It's so good. I would love it if it wasn't blue cheese. I know you don't love blue cheese, and I do. But if it's a ranch dressing?

- With blue cheese crumbles? No, you want cheddar 'cause I just ordered you-- - Or feta, I could do feta. - Feta's a nice option. - Okay, so you love iceberg. - Love iceberg, love tomatoes, potatoes. - Tomato, you just wanna keep saying. - Yeah, I'm gonna keep it in there 'cause that was on the list. And Brussels sprout done correctly or as we in the LeBeau household always said, mussel brats. - Right. - I like 'em, yeah. - What about peas? I love peas.

I'm ambivalent about them. Okay. You know what I like is when they're dotting something else. Like I get, there's an Indian rice mix that will often, they'll add peas to the yellow rice. Yes. Love it. Pop, pop, little pop. Yeah. I love a pea pop in a salad. Yeah, that's fun. Yeah. That's, I agree. Okay. Okay.

This was brought to you by vegetables. We are supported by vegetables. Hello, hello, hello. Time to eat your veggies. Okay. America's favorite. Now I'm at the list. I was reading and now I'm at the list. I'm just going to go through quickly. Okay. All right. Favorite. America's favorite vegetables. 2019. In order. Corn, potatoes, carrots, tomatoes, onions.

Onion, green beans, cucumbers, broccoli, cabbage, peas. Hello, peas. Okay, least favorite in order, turnip, beets, radish, brussel sprouts, artichoke. That's a problem. I understand it. Again, if you don't do an artichoke well, they're terrible. But if you do them good, they're the best. Are these people thinking about the canned ones? Yes.

Who knows? Or the leaves and they didn't learn to eat the meat. They thought you were supposed to swallow that whole leaf. Who knows? Just eat a yucca. They thought eat a yucca, basically. Okay. I love artichokes. Okay. Eggplant. Yeah. Agreed. Gross. No, I love eggplant. I like a good cooked eggplant. Yes. I just bought one from a farmer's market. I'm so excited to cook. Mush city. It's so mushy. You're mush city. The only good thing about the eggplant is the emoji that came out of it.

Have you ever had a good eggplant parmesan, like a good, good eggplant parmesan? I don't like it. I've tried it many times, especially when I was vegan. I'm like, okay, I guess I'm switching to eggplant parmesan. Yeah, but you have to roast. I was like, no, I'm just doing no parmesan now. You have to roast the shit out of them. Most people don't. Allison taught me that, Allison Roman. Yeah. You got to turn it into a goo.

I fucking love it. Actually, she put an eggplant pasta up recently. That was so good. I'm making it tonight now that we're talking about this. Okay. Okay.

Butternut squash. I've had it good. I've had it good. We went through a period of time where we would order a salad from a specific place that I do love. I love this salad. And it had beets and it had butternut squash. And so I would say no beets. And the butternut squash, I would say sure, of course. And I would pick around the butternut squash every time. Every time. Yeah. Okay. Zucchini. I love zucchini. Well, but.

When are you ever eating zucchini unless it's deep fried? No, no. I cook with it all the time. Or pickled. I've never had pickled zucchini. But I've had fried zucchini and I like, but I like every single thing I've ever had that was fried. Okay. Then mushrooms, which I love. I love them, but I know they're polarizing. They are polarizing. And I agree. The texture is dicey. It's like what you would imagine biting into a brain is like. People are really obsessed with texture. I'm one of them. Oh. Yeah. Yeah.

And then if we had video, people could have seen my face. They will start seeing your face and your eye rolls. I'm going to get them under control. They'll see all the daggers you shoot my way. And they'll see why. Maybe. Yeah.

Okay. I'm still going to probably cover my face when I do impressions, even for the audience. That feels right. I think it's too much for them too. Okay. Asparagus is the last one. I also love asparagus. I do too. It's great. Okay. But it does have, I understand it. The pea smell. Whatever. Yeah. I like that because it's like, I know it worked. I know it made its way through. That is fun. Yeah. You get that direct connection. Same with when beets make your pee and poop pink. Yeah.

I have been scared by beets. I think a lot of people have. You think you have internal bleeding because your shit is blood red. You're like, oh my God, did I eat a sharp object? And you're like, no, I had beets. I wonder how many people have gone to the hospital because they ate beets. 16,000 a year.

Okay, I found no evidence that Antoine Fuqua, the director, esteemed director, he brought up the boxing thing. And I think, because he's done, he did like Southpaw. So he probably made them box like that. But he also made the Tank movie with Brad Pitt and Pena. And I think those guys had to play.

Pitt was excluded, I think, from the boxing book. Oh, interesting. Well, maybe he wanted a certain body type or something. He does like boxing. This director does. But I didn't find anything that said he makes all his actors box. Okay.

And that's it. That was everything. Not very many facts for Coleman. Beautiful guy. Great episode. I really loved his energy. I was smitten with him. Yeah, me too. As I am with his work as an actor. All right. Love you. I love you. I love you. I love you. Love you. Bye.