You’ll Never Be Able to Outearn Your Own Stupidity
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with my good friend and bestselling author, Jade Warshaw, and we'll be answering your questions, so give us a call at 888-825-5225, and

And we'll be talking about your life, your money, your career, your relationships, anything and everything. We are here for you. So first up, we have Geli in Greensboro, North Carolina. Hey, Geli, welcome to the show. Hello, Rachel. Thank you for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help?

Yes. Well, we have a 35-year-old son who he just struggles with managing his family's finances. And now he's currently in like a mental health crisis. So he's not getting a check right now until short-term disability kicks in, which we're not sure when that will be. So my husband and I are prepared to step in and help support.

the family with whatever they need, but also financially. But we, what we want to know is how do we best support him with the finances? Because it has been, you know, years of poor financial decisions. We wonder if, you know, can we provide help they need, but also say, Hey, once this is over, you know,

We want you guys to be set up to sustain yourselves if there's ever another issue like this. Sure. So what was the issue? Can I ask what the mental health crisis is? Was he diagnosed with

a mental health disorder or well yeah he's he's adhd so that's been since childhood but he's going through depression and anxiety right now it's crippling so it started about a month ago when it was really bad diagnosed and now it's just kind of uh it's gotten better but it's still it's still not good um okay and so we're working with my daughter-in-law okay so he's married do they have kids

Yes, they have four children. Oh, wow. Okay. Young? Their ages are 7 to 14. Okay. So has she been staying home with the kids or does she work as well?

No, she works. She works a part time job. So she is the main breadwinner. She works part time. They have three or four children. Three are also diagnosed ADHD. So there's a lot of doctor's appointments and things like that. And this job affords her to be able to take off whenever she needs. Yeah. So what's their current financial situation? Because you said that it wasn't great. There have been some mistakes. So where are they financially? Yeah.

Yes. Well, right now they are about $600 short a month to make their bills. And that's all the bills, but they have, you know, like credit cards. They have a high, their rent is very high. So, you know, even when he is making his full check, they're still short, maybe a hundred or $2 a month. So when I say six, I'm talking about all the other things that are not needed.

Um, like the credit cards and things like that in the high phone, high cell phone bills, stuff like that. Okay. Okay. So what are you, when you talk to the wife, when you talk to the wife, what are you guys talking about? Like what, in your mind, what does help look like?

Well, in our mind, we're looking at the four walls just to keep them in their home, utilities. They have to have internet so children can do homework, things like that. And they're $200 away from four walls is what you're saying? Yes, yes. And that's when his short-term disability kicks in. It won't even be his full check. I think it's like 80%. And, you know, like I said, I don't know how long that's going to be, but...

Okay. There's usually an elimination period and he should be able to look into what that is before it begins. So that's the terminology that you want to look for to find out when that's going to start to pay out. And so after he does start to get half of his pay, will they be fined financially or do you still sniff out that there could be issues? No, there'll still be issues. Yeah, they won't be able to

sustain themselves. Right. And we're willing to help them. I mean, my husband are financially, you know, debt free, things like that. Thanks to the Dave's program. Um, but I guess for us, it's, we're,

you know, we need them to communicate more about their finances. My son's very, he's a spender and she's very quiet and humble, but doesn't tell him no when it comes to the overspending. Can I, can I, can I butt in for a second? Sure. What I want to ask is, did they come to you for help?

And what do you and what do you think they would be doing if you weren't kind of inserting yourself into this? How do you think that they would handle this? Because there's part of this where I'm going, OK, you're a mom like you're you're trying to do what's best for these, you know, kids in quotes. You know, obviously they're fully grown. But then there's part of me that's going, did they ask for help? Are they asking you to step in? And do they have a plan? And.

And they have to want to help themselves, too. Like you said, I think that their rent is too high. So regardless, and I don't want this to sound insensitive, regardless if you have depression or not, math is math. So whether he gets a job where he makes more to sustain the rent, that's one thing. But it's not sounding like that's going to be probably in the cards for them recently. So they have to have some grown-up conversations within themselves. And I think, you know...

I mean, I guess it's okay if you help facilitate some of that or ask some questions, I guess. But there does have to be a point that this can be an endless cycle for you continuing to come in and rescue and rescue and rescue. And so I would want them, again, I think to Jade's point, I think the ideal solution whenever a parent comes down and helps an adult child is

is that the adult child is very, acknowledges and is aware of the reality of what is going on. And they say, okay, you know, for six months, there's a timeline. Like there's some things in place, some boundaries that make all of this, like make this a gift where it's all a blessing and it doesn't end up being a spiraling curse anymore.

but it sounds like she's in the clouds. Yes. He's sick. You're looking at the outside wanting to come in and be like, I don't want you guys to be behind on rent, which is understandable. But there is a point that I think if you're going to go down this road to help them financially,

I think it would be your responsibility then to at least communicate out loud some boundaries and can communicate what you're seeing too, because you're not going to be able to help them forever. They do have to make some decisions in their life, right? And one of those decisions could be the wife having to pick up full-time work.

because because he's operating at a deficit. You if they don't have savings, if they're dependent on, you know, credit cards like it sounds like they are. This is going to make a bad situation worse very quickly. And I think you know that. But that would be a big piece of advice, not you trying to fill the gaps for them.

Oh, yeah, that's absolutely right. And we've been watching this for years, to be honest. It's just this is the first time that we've ever really done anything financially. We have not in the past because we've had conversations before. But I think, you know, there's some neurodiversity things going on. Like she's not diagnosed autistic, but.

She is supposed to be going to get tested for that because there's no pushback. There's no conversation. He goes off the handle. She doesn't know how to handle conflict. How long have they been married? Yeah, 15 years. It's been 15 years. So I feel like there's more that needs to be done because we've talked to them. And they've lived in government housing before, so they pull themselves out.

So they have done it in the past. Yeah. Yeah. And I think, you know, when there is a diagnosis, you know, something, you know, whether it's a mental sickness, a physical sickness, right? I think that, you know, having someone alongside you is such a gift. And I don't push that away necessarily. But then there is a point that they have to be able to see the reality too for themselves of what's going on. It sounds like they're not there yet post this diagnosis. Yeah.

or after. So, so yeah, that's a hard, a hard line to draw for sure. But thanks for the call.

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All right, up next we have Scott in Albuquerque. Hey, Scott, welcome to the show. Hi, thank you for taking my phone call. Absolutely. My wife and I are both expecting in April, May time next year. Oh my gosh, congratulations.

Yeah, and we just have a question regarding whether or not to pay off our mortgage early. So, I'll give you guys a little bit of background. We're both 30. We have a take home of a little bit over $10,000 a month after 25% put into the 401k, health insurance and all that stuff.

So we have three pots of high-yield savings accounts. The first one is a year's worth of emergency fund. And I'll give you some more background on why we did a year. And that's about $65,000. We saved $12,000 on the second pot for like a new baby fund kind of thing. And then we also, the last one is about $110,000 sitting in cash. Very good. Mortgage. Very good. Yeah.

And we have also maxed out our Roth IRAs for the year as well. What do you owe on the mortgage? What's left?

Yeah, it's 200K at 3.25%. So the question we have is what would you all advise on paying off that 110 into our mortgage? And then we would obviously continue to do that in 18 months and we would probably pay off everything or invest given that our mortgage rates are so low. And then the second question is what does Dave and his team say about

paying off mortgage early with a newborn coming. I mean, technically, we would say if you had debt, if you were in baby step two or even baby step three, we would say, hey, pause like all the paying of the debt and just stack up money for the baby. Right. But you don't have debt and you've already saved up twelve thousand for the baby, which I'm guessing is a deductible. Or how did you arrive at twelve thousand? That's probably deductible and just like

starting up a baby room, you know, birthing funds, all that kind of stuff. Yeah. All that stuff for the first couple months. I think because you have that money there, you've got over a year, like you've got a year's worth of emergency fund. I would not push pause on what you're doing. I'd keep doing what you're doing. And in this case, it sounded like, if I understood you correctly, you're already investing more than 15%. I think you said 25%.

And so technically where you're at right now, the focus should be the mortgage. I'd probably back the 25% down to 15%. And I'd put all of that extra margin or whatever you and your wife determine is a reasonable amount of extra payments on the mortgage. And yeah, if you have 110 in cash that you've earmarked for paying off the mortgage, I would 100% do that. Yeah. And throw it at the principal of the mortgage. I mean, I would do that. I would do that today. I mean, yeah.

Because I could see you guys get down to $90,000. And then Jade's point, if you guys even take 10% more of your income from that 25% to 15%, that's more cash going in. And then you guys are savers, so you probably won't do this. But I would even take that $65,000 down. I don't think you need $65,000. You could take that down to even $40,000 if you wanted to throw an extra $25,000 at the mortgage. Because what's crazy, Scott, is if you think about how much is your mortgage payment a month?

It's about $1,700. And the reason why we have a year's worth of emergency fund is earlier in the year, we experienced a miscarriage. So going into this pregnancy, we're both, you know, scared to death and we're, you know, knock on wood, don't want to have any complications or anything like that. But the reason why we have, you know, that big cushion is in the event that something happens, you know, we have

the money to cover herself. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Which is very understandable. So yeah, so that's, um, yeah, that's great. If you want to do that, I just, um, the point of paying the mortgage off early, cause there's a lot of, you know, people have a lot of opinions about this cause you can put it in the market and make more than because if you have a low interest rate on the mortgage, I mean, we hear all these, you know, kind of, uh, pushbacks against this, but the, but

but the wild thing is when you don't have a mortgage payment and you literally owe no one anything, I mean, you think about that 1700 instead of going to the bank, you just invested that every month, right? I mean, you can actually start to play out and see mathematically how this fast forwards you so quickly. So, so yeah, I would definitely take the 110 and,

I'd put it towards the mortgage. And then from there, if you guys want to keep the 65, you can do that for sure. But let me throw this at you because if your thought is, hey, we're going to have a year's worth of expenses because God forbid something happens and maybe we want to take...

X amount of months off for mental health, right? If your mortgage is paid off, you don't have payments anyway. And that eliminates one of your biggest line items out of your budget. And so even if you were to take a lot of time off, your cost of living would be so much lower because of it. So there's some math to be done, you know, to really think through that because I'd hate to have that money just sitting there when you could have a paid off mortgage. Excellent. Thank you. Yep. Absolutely. Scott, thanks for the call.

Up next, we have Lloyd in Raleigh. Hey, Lloyd, welcome to the show. Hello. Hello. Thanks for calling in. How can we help? I'm 65 years old. I'll be 66 in four months. I'm retired. And right now I'm living off of my 401k. And I wonder would I be better off to go ahead and start drawing Social Security and let the 401k, you know, gain value.

Yeah, how much would you be getting a month from Social Security right now? Approximately $2,000. $2,000. And how much is in your 401k? About $2,200,000. Okay. Okay.

Yeah, I mean, I would, I would go ahead and I would go ahead and pull it because I mean, the longer you, you know, don't pull on the Social Security, the more you will get. But at that point in life, if you've taken it early, and you're able to, you know, live off of that and not touch the 401k, that's just going to continue to grow. How much is your expenses a month?

Uh, bare bones, $1,600, $1,700 a month. Okay. Yeah. I just want to make sure I understood you. Did you say your 401k is $22,000? What's in the 401k? $20,000. $20,000? $220,000. $220,000. Okay. You were cutting up. It was breaking up. I was like, I was missing that very important first two. Okay. Okay. Okay.

So good. So yes, Lloyd, I mean, I would. I would start drawing on that now and use it to your benefit because, I mean, it's there. And again, some people argue, well, just if you keep it in there longer, you'll get more later. But I would rather be using that money than pulling from my 401k. Are you able just to pull from the growth of your 401k, Lloyd, or are you touching the principal part of it? Using the principal. Okay. Then definitely what Rachel said. Yeah, I would definitely pull that Social Security and live off that. And well done, Lloyd. Mm-hmm.

I mean, that's a significant, yeah. But you, I mean, you've gotten to a point of what most people dream of, of having, you know, $220,000 in your 401k and you're retired and doing it. Do you have any debt? Maybe $3,000 in credit card debt. Okay. That's it. And your house is paid off?

Oh, yes. Excellent. Well done, Lloyd. That's great. Wonderful. Well, thanks for the call. Yep, that's what I would do. And enjoy that retirement. You worked hard for it, Lloyd. Thanks for the call. This is The Ramsey Show.

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at timothyplan.com. Read carefully before investing. Mutual funds distributed by Timothy Partners LTD and ETFs distributed by Foresight Fund Services LLC. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I am Rachel Cruz hosting this hour with Jade Warshaw. So give us a call at 888-825-5225. And we're here to answer your questions. Up next, we have Sarah in Atlanta. Hey, Sarah, welcome to the show. Hi, how are you? Thank you for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help?

Oh, I pretty much don't even know where to really start. So, um, I've been married for less than three years. Um, and, uh, I've worked for everything that I have and nothing was given to me. And, um, when I got married, I, uh, was my net worth was a little over a million. And, uh, but that did, uh,

consists of most money in retirement and equity and a few rental properties. Um, my fiance at the time, now a husband, uh, did not have as much as I did, which was fine. Um, and, uh,

So we had decided to get a prenup and whatever he came in with, I matched. And then anything else in excess of that was to go to our children. What'd he come in with? He came in with $160,000. So you were at a million net worth and he was at $160,000 net worth? Yeah. Whose idea was the prenup? Mine. Okay. Keep going. So fast forward, yeah.

Fast forward, I'm making a great income. He's making a great income. I've always been a saver, just naturally, always lived below my means. And things just begun like just not making any sense. And my husband owns his own business. And I just started seeing our accounts getting lower and lower and lower.

when I believe our account should have been getting higher and higher. So I said, Hey, you know, like what's going on? And, um, his response was, uh, you know, um, I just haven't done, uh, the paperwork, you know, for taxes and that, that he filed the tax extension. So, um,

You know, so it's taking money out of his savings until he goes through his paperwork so he can know what he has to pay exactly. I said, OK. Several months went by and I still notice these things going down and things just don't make sense to me. Something in particular happened and I said, I pretty much said, are you sure everything's OK? He said, yeah. I asked him to stop.

please let me see his account, his business account where he said all the money was. And that's when he admitted to me that he has, that he is, he has been stealing from, his words were from us, from me, and it's a fraud. And needless to say,

He dove into everything, and he has completely wiped us out. Oh, my gosh. Our savings, everything. We now only have two months of emergency fund. We have two very small children, two under two. Uh-huh. When you say he wiped out your savings, how much did you have saved? And he was just funneling it to keep his business afloat? Is that what you're saying? Yeah.

We had over $100,000 in savings. He also took from me personally $286,000. Out of where? Just various accounts that I had that were deemed as premarital that weren't supposed to be touched. And what did he use that money for?

So I just went through everything, and there is no addictions. There's no other woman. There's nothing like that. So then when I dove into things, so it turns out that he actually, the lies began when we were dating, and he actually lied on his prenup. And the $160,000 that he even came in with were tied to loans.

and lines of credit from his business so he just said that this is how much credit i have it's not real it's not real net worth i didn't know that but that's what he just admitted to you though recently so yeah so really he came in with zero and he lied and he lied on a he actually came in with legal document so he lied on a legal document too yeah yeah um yeah when did all this happen sarah how long ago

About two months ago. Okay. And I have to say, I'm still in shock. Sure. Sure. How's the business doing? Is it going into the business and his business is tanking or does he, when you look at his business, is there profit and he's just not bringing that back into the personal side?

No, no. His business is not doing anywhere near as well as it used to or as it was. And he has been lying about how well it's doing. And, you know,

You know, and just, you know, like I'm a budgeter, you know, like you tell me, hey, you know, only this much money is coming in. I'll just, you know, pull out a spreadsheet and say, hey, let's start budgeting. But that's not what happened. And said, you know, we're going on vacation. Yeah. And said, we're, you know, doing things like that, that we shouldn't be doing if you have debt. So he's also racked up about $130,000 now in personal debt.

Can I ask you a question? Because he's not here, so I can't question him in the same way. Yeah. What was the inside of you that made you go, I need to sign a prenup with this guy? Was there a red flag already? No, it was. No, there wasn't. It was just the fact that our networks were so vastly different. Yeah. Sarah, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. So are you separating from him? No.

Um, no, I feel, um, we have two very small children. And again, I'm still very much in shock, but we have two very small children. And I know the statistics with, uh, growing home, going in a home is, you know, growing up in a home with a broken household. And I don't want that for my children either. Yeah. Are you in counseling? They're just so young. Are you guys in counseling? Will he go? No. Uh,

He said he would go, but to be quite frank, it's not something that we could afford right now. Well, if you're going to make this...

the marriage part works, Sarah, you're married to a liar and not just a liar, like here and there. Like, I mean, this is like a, this is, yeah, this is like, there's, there's something, there's something wrong, deeply, deeply, deeply wrong, um, with him. And in the process he's hurting his family. And so for you to draw boundaries for yourself does not make you a bad mom. Uh, I just want to, I just want to give you freedom to do what's best for Sarah in this moment. And, and,

For this to be a healthy longevity level of a marriage, there is a lot of broken, broken, broken pieces. And without a professional, I really believe, to be in the mix of this and for him to show deep remorse and a pattern of change until you have trust. I'm separating everything today, Sarah, financially. You need to protect yourself.

You need to your income Now goes into a different account with his name Nowhere near it I would contact a lawyer Just on the basis Of lying about a prenup I would just get some more information to protect Yourself and your kids because I have already done Most of that and I'm in the midst of a post up Which he has agreed to Where you go back and Have like basically a prenup in the middle of the marriage Is that what that is?

Changing the prenup to make it correct to where you guys currently are? No, no, no. Post-nup, just reiterating that his debt is his debt.

And even if I decided to, let's say, help him get out of his debt, that I would not be, you know, I'm expecting to get reimbursed at some point. It's not just my responsibility. I hear you. Yeah. Well, what we find so much often, Sarah, with these, I mean, that this, I mean, the level of financial infidelity that you've experienced is the level of an affair. I mean, you know, you can put anything in place, but...

You start to question yourself. I mean, there's so much in that when you are so deeply lied to from the person that you're supposed to be in a marriage with. So I would do what I could. I would have my own therapist. I would have him go to therapy if you're going to make this work. But I would also protect yourself until a pattern is proven that he's proven back his trust with finances. But for now, I would keep it separate and you have your stuff protected.

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That's betterhelp.com slash Deloney. Welcome back to the Ramsey show. So coming off that last call, Jade, that there, you know, that was a severe case of financial infidelity. I mean, that was many layers of being basically a pathological lawyer to his wife and the situation, which is just so sad. And we hear this stuff more and more, right?

And, you know, I can hear some of the naysayers like, well, this is why we say separate accounts and, you know, all of that. But the truth is, if you're lying about your money, that's an indication of your character and who you are. And that is going to bleed over into other areas of your life. And so if you can't trust them with your money, then you're not going to be able to trust them as a person.

And there's got to be Some deep boundary sets Yes In that way And so I don't want that To negate And scare people off With the idea That working together With your money Is one of the most Beautiful things That you can do In your marriage That you're on The same team You're doing this together But you can't

Be a team financially or otherwise in a marriage when another spouse is lying. And so that's the point that we draw a line and say, OK, now that doesn't work. So we're separating everything and you have to protect yourself in that situation. And and it's really difficult. But again, the financial infidelity can go from that extreme, from debt, other accounts, lying about income.

to even just hiding big purchases. And we're seeing this a lot. There was an article, Jade, in the Wall Street Journal. It says, The Rise of Stealth Shopping, How Americans Are Hiding Big Purchases from Their Partners. So I've been seeing a lot of this. I saw this Wall Street Journal article. Then even the Today Show did a whole segment on it. And it's basically, they did a survey of 1,000 Americans, and they found out that nearly two-thirds of people who live with their spouse or significant other are hiding purchases. Wow.

Okay, so two-thirds of them hid purchases over the past year. And a quarter of them started out with small things like clothing purchases, right? But they said... The joke of like the Target bag. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like it's like, yeah. But they said that one in 10 manipulated even their financial records to like show that, no, I didn't spend it. So you're actually going in there and doctoring credit card statements or, you know, that sort of thing. And so to your point, this is crazy. So...

I'll just read a little piece of what people are doing. So they said that they perfected a strategy for sneaking in new clothing, handbags and shoes. She enters through the back door and shoves her packages in the coat closet behind an armoire or in the laundry basket. At night when her husband and three sons are asleep, she puts away her like everything she got. Then there's another guy who

I'm not going to read it on here. I read it earlier, but there's another guy who anytime he buys new clothing, he immediately takes it to the dry cleaners. And then when he picks it up from the dry cleaner, it's like in the bag and it looks, it looks used. It looks like it's been there. So when he walks in, his wife is none the wiser. And she's like, Oh, you just picked up your dry clean. Like that is sneaky on a whole nother level for sure. And here's the thing you guys like,

I talked to a lady one time at an event and she was like all, you know, been out of shape. She's like, my husband went to Chick-fil-A four times last week and didn't tell me. You know, she's all in tears. I'm like, okay, you need to chill. Like there's a level of forgetfulness and mistakes and you know, whatever, fill in the blank. And then there's purposeful, intentional hiding.

And that's where I would start asking questions. And always my first question is why? What is the need for that? Yeah, why are you hiding? Is it because you and your spouse don't have the money for it? Is it because they would get mad at you if they would get mad at you? Why are they getting mad at you? Is that their problem or are you overspending? You start to kind of peel back the layers to understand. And that's where people miss...

So many opportunities, especially in a relationship like this. I think so too. You're not only hiding and being deceitful about it, but also there's something going on and why you're hiding it. And then that's a part of growth. Absolutely. Digging into that and facing that, that just allows you to grow as a human. And I feel like we just...

push that type of growth away so often. Absolutely. And I mean, that's kind of what the author of the article says. She says, quote, what can seem like harmless white lies can lead to mistrust that undermines the relationship. Your partner will say, if you lie about buying shoes, what else are you lying about? Sure. Which is 100%. I mean, it makes me think of that scripture that's, if you're faithful with a little, you're entrusted with more, right? And so it's like, if you can't be faithful with

the little truths, right? If you can't just tell the truth, then your spouse will not give you more trust, right? That's right. So you've got to start with being able to say, listen, why can't I tell the truth about something very small? Yep. I think it's actually John Zaloni talks about how secrets...

are a poison in a relationship. I mean, yeah, the secrecy, it is, it does no one any favors. And if anything, it's, it's, it's so harmful. So, well, let's talk about money and marriage because I know that that's coming up in October. Yeah. And I know I'm talking about lies. Yeah.

That's right. On the money and marriage events. Yes. Yeah. Our October event, it was sold out. It got, you know, it sold out really quickly for the fall. We're actually going to do one evening in October. Just kind of a one night event. But then our other next big event is on Valentine's weekend, February 13th through the 15th.

which will do a very similar event that we're doing here in the fall. But yeah, you're speaking at it. Yeah. And you're talking about lies. Yeah. In that way. Because this is a thing, like it really does start to unravel. And to your point, Rachel, the bigger question is why? Why am I doing this? And so I'll go through like the reasons that I believe are the why behind it. But stay tuned. You got to be at the event. That's part of the talk. Yeah. Oh my gosh. The teas are there. Yeah. Yeah. So instead, what we recommend couples doing is you do a budget together. Mm-hmm. Every...

Every spouse, every family, we do family members, has a line item with a certain amount of money. And within that money, you go and spend. And if 18 packages from Amazon show up, Winston just grins and says, well, Rachel, that's out of your category because I'm spending. But there's a point that you say, okay, I still want my, you know, be an individual and I still have things that I enjoy. And I don't feel like I have to ask permission for every little thing.

You know, like I bought fashion tape on Monday for my clothes. And I'm like, I don't need to text Winston. Can I spend $6 on Amazon? No, that's out of the budget. It's fine. So it's not this overly controlling thing when people hear, oh my gosh, you know, you have to share accounts and your spouse, you know, you have to agree on it. Yeah, it's just the agreement. But then you get to go and enjoy your money. So for these people, I'm like, golly, just put a freaking clothing budget in the budget and then a line item in the budget and then go and spend.

spend and enjoy like that's what it's for here's the thing so there was another i told you the today show also talked about this yeah and they said um so of the people they surveyed 43 percent did say yes i lie about purchases but they're lying about purchases that total 435 dollars or more

Oh, it's so expensive. That's pretty significant. But that just goes to show there's also... It's like I think some of it could be solved with a line item, but there's probably some of it that's like, hey, let's be mature about what's a reasonable amount. And for some people's budgets, yeah, fine, $435. But...

There is that line of reasonableness where it's like, okay, if we have a budget, if we're divvying out fund money, make sure it's a reasonable amount for your spouse, for your income. And it's not just like you get a $50 allowance, you know, that kind of thing. Right, right, right. But these are big purchases and probably going on credit cards. 100%. Yeah. Well, one of the girls in the article says, so the thing that she does to be, quote, stealthy is so her husband has an American Express card, which pings him anytime she uses the card.

the card the card and she's like i don't want him to be pinged where she has a credit card that he doesn't get pinged and the only statement he gets he doesn't get an itemized statement it's just a full like it's you know two thousand dollars or whatever yeah and so she if he says man that it seems a little bit high this time she'll just say oh well life insurance came out and so she can lie about that what was on the what made it high yes

And that's what's exhausting. It's exhausting. And just if you're going to be living that life that way, then just say, well, yeah, I bought some shoes and I put it on the credit card. Man up. Yeah. Just yeah. To say it. To say it. Oh, man. This is it's a big topic. The money and marriage conversation, you guys. And it's so hard because money, usually the money fights in the money conflict. Kind of what we're talking about here is.

It's never about that. Like, you know, it's never about the shoes. It's about the lying about the shoes. And why do we have to lie? And so if you're out there and you you do have a significant other, you are married, you know, be thinking about this and that feeling of, oh, God, I'm embarrassed to tell my spouse about this purchase or I don't want to tell them about this purchase anymore.

Start asking some questions to yourself of why, what's really going on there? Because again, my encouragement and my challenge always is to push into that. Because again, those are moments that people say, all right, I'm out, separate accounts. Let's just do our own thing because that's too painful to go down there. But that is where health of a marriage and relationship really starts when you start to feel that like, okay, I'm actually going to face something that's uncomfortable. So

It's really difficult. But if you guys want to check out the Money in Marriage event, make sure to go to ramsaysolutions.com slash events. We would love to see you there. Valentine's Day weekend couples. It's a great, great event, Jade. We'll be there as well. Well, thanks to all the guys in the booth. Thank you, America. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I am Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with my friend and bestselling author, Jade Warshaw. And we are answering your questions at 888-825-5225. So give us a call. We'll be talking about your life, your money, your careers, your relationships, anything and everything. So give us a call.

Up first, we have Rebecca in Rochester, New York. Hey, Rebecca. Welcome to the show. Hi, guys. Thank you so much for taking my call. Absolutely.

So my husband and I, we're going to be relocating to Florida in November. We are on baby steps six and seven, and we're kind of struggling with deciding if we should purchase a home or rent. Only reason being is if we're going to rent, it's going to cost us about anywhere from $2,100 to $2,500 a month. And just running numbers on a mortgage, ooh.

who would be paying about the same thing for a mortgage. So we're just kind of struggling with deciding with our financial situation, what would be best or the smart way to do that. What's causing you guys to move? You're just moving for work?

Yeah, we've always wanted to move there and we both have jobs lined up. So better opportunities for the both of us. I mean, I could definitely understand the idea of if you own a home now, like you see the value in that. So wanting to go to Florida and also buy a home. But there's a big part of that where when you make these big moves cross country or even just, you know, to another county, if you don't know the area, it's really hard to make a wise decision because you don't even know what part of the city that you want to live in. So it's...

In many ways, I would just say get there, get settled, rent for a while until you can learn which areas of town you like and which areas of town have the best schools and all of those things that really do go into making a good home buying decision. Yeah, because buying a home. We've done a lot of research on that too. Oh, sorry. No, go ahead. Go ahead. You're good.

We've been down there a lot the past six months just for the process for my husband transferring his job from here to there. So we do have a pretty good idea of where we want to be. I guess it's just the struggle of, you know, if we should jump into it. Obviously, we don't know if it's going to work out. Obviously, the goal is for it to work out and not have to move back home. And then also, you know, we're going to be spending $30,000 a year. Wow.

What's the part about it not working out and you having to go back home? What do you mean by that? I guess if we just end up not liking it, which I don't see that happening, honestly. Interesting. Yeah, yeah. I mean, if I were you, Rebecca, I mean, honestly, I would probably just go and I'd probably just rent even for six months. Like, go do a half a year rent somewhere. Put yourself in a storage unit if you need to and just, like, really feel it out. Let him get...

you know cycled into a new job I mean there's just a lot of change that happens and there's just something about not having the burden of home ownership during all of that and then just like Jade saying then you're able to like look at houses while you're there you can set up appointments with an agent I mean you can really do it well instead of doing it from a distance and I know you know it's just a crazy world I know so many people even in my own neighborhood they go sight unseen like they're moving from California and they don't even see the house right because it's because things are getting you know bought up so quickly so I think

So I don't know if the area of Florida you're in, if it's a really competitive part from the real estate perspective. But I still think it's just wise to kind of slow down because your house –

It is the largest purchase that majority of people make in their lifetime. And I just want you guys to be extra, extra sure that, yep, this is the area we want. We had multiple houses that we were able to look at. We had good options. We picked the right spot and just feel really good about it. So yeah, if I were you, I'd probably rent for six months to a year for that process personally, even though the money's the same. And I get it feels like you're throwing money out the window, but you're not. You're buying time.

which is wise. And then you're able to see. So that's usually what we tell people if they are moving to a new city or a new state. We say that even your first year of marriage, don't get into a home if you don't have to, right? Rent for just a little bit and kind of get your feet under you. So these big life changes, I think it just helps to slow down.

Yeah. And the plan is to sell our house here. I'm in real estate here and we'll be doing that down there. Okay. So the market's definitely much different. There's more of a buyer's market than here. But the goal would be to sell our house. And then what we met to put that into a high yield savings account until we decided to buy, because we would probably put that as a down payment. Would it be smart to put that full amount down payment? I mean, I know. I mean, my whole goal would be to put as much down as possible when the time comes. Do you guys have consumer debt?

We have no debt. No debt, yeah. And a good emergency fund, a good fund even for moving expenses and everything to be able to cash flow that? Yeah, so we currently have $50,000 in our checking and savings account. And then my husband will also be getting a $20,000 relocation bonus. So the goal is much more than what we're netting on the house down on the new house. Yeah, that's fantastic. Mortgage, when we're doing the numbers on that, we're like, oh my God, we're going to be paying more.

more than like what a mortgage would be sure yeah and it's temporary though yeah it's not forever it's just a buy time and again could save you in essence tens of thousands of dollars versus getting into a home that you know you don't like or or a situation that you got to get out of and then you actually end up losing money because you have to you know make a different decision a year a year from now right versus if you're not attached to a home you're able to slow down

Right. Okay. Well, I hope that helps, Rebecca. Thanks. Thanks for the call. I know this is always a, it's always a tricky, a tricky, a tricky part of life, especially if you're moving. Absolutely. And I mean, she, you know, she mentioned, and I think a lot of people feel this, well, we've been there before. Like we spent time during the interview process, but I'm like, how much time really? Like the equivalent of what, 14 days or it's really not enough time to get a full sense of the area. And it's, I mean, it's,

even if you say, oh, we really like this area because you spent the most of your time there, there could still be other areas that you don't even know about yet. That could be better for you, maybe even less expensive. Like you just, it's hard to know until you really get to a place. Plus, once you get to a place

when you get you know into your job you get into your community then other people you start saying oh well they live over there like I like that area and so knowing people also kind of helps you do your research on another level so yeah no for sure and I even know within Nashville right all the different so many neighborhoods yeah so many pockets and and then you know and I don't know if they have kids or not but you know you get into to schools and you get into that whole conversation with different counties and everything and so

Yep, Rebecca, I appreciate the call because again, this is one that we get a lot, you guys. And just remember, renters don't go to hell. Like, you're gonna be okay. You're gonna be okay if you rent. And- Buys you time. People just feel like, oh my gosh, this is so unwise because I'm just throwing money down the drain. I know it can feel like that. Again, I get that because it's not going towards equity. It's not going towards anything.

But it's giving you time and patience. And for a short period of time, that is one of the best moves that you can make. And the truth is they still have to sell their current residence. Like that's a big piece of the puzzle for them to buy the next house, especially if you're talking about, you know, using that money for a down payment. So yeah, take your time is the...

Yes. That's the advice. Yes. Because when you guys moved here, what did you, because you guys moved from Florida. We moved from Florida, but I'd lived here before. That's right. That's right. That's a long time. So I knew the area. So we did buy pretty much immediately. But I forgot you had. Yes. But I know I've lived here. So yes, that's right. That's right. I forgot. I forgot about that.

No, it is. It's a big decision, you guys. So the housing situation, slow down. Yes. Make sure, again, that you have a good down payment if you're a first-time homebuyer. 5% you can at least have. But even up to 20 to avoid PMI. Yeah. Making sure it's not a big part of your paycheck, you know, 25%. We love a 15-year mortgage around here. And so just making sure that all of those elements are lined up. And then that way your home is a blessing, not a curse. This is The Ramsey Show. ♪

I've been doing this show for over 30 years and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible, are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills? How am I going to pay my bills?

I'm going to eat next week. Yeah, in the middle of all that grief. Like it's just, it is, it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here.

You've got to say it out loud, and you've got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of a stinking pizza. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282, or go to zander.com. Today's question of the day is brought to you by...

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R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey may not be available in all states. All right. Today's question comes from Layla in Pennsylvania. She says, I finally got my husband on board with the baby steps and we have done well communicating and holding each other accountable in pursuit of our goal. The one thing that both of us consistently overspend on is our kids.

Daycare is an expense we budget for, but beyond that we struggle. My husband buys them toys and takes them to the movies, and I find myself gravitating towards extracurricular activities to make up for lost time due to my busy work schedule. How do we determine how to budget for our children and their activities and what is or isn't necessary for the kids in this phase of our life?

I mean, for me, this, I go back to what you said, we're making each other accountable in pursuit of our goal. And so I don't, you know, you don't mention anything about debt or anything like that. So I don't know what baby step you're in. And did I miss it? Nope. You don't say what baby step you're in. So I'll kind of phase it in a couple of different ways. If you're in debt, then the number one goal should be to get out of debt. Right. And so if that's the case, then

I would say, okay, daycare, yeah, that's expensive. It's necessary. And so that stays on the budget. But there's some things that are not going to be necessary. And I'm all for, you know, with kids maybe having a little line item for entertainment because kids are kids and they do want to do, you know, things. But you also don't tell me how old the kids are. And I'm like, if you have like really under two years old. Yeah. They...

they don't know like i was the first person to say when your child turns like one and a half years old you could literally or like one years old you could literally wrap up an old toy and put it under the christmas tree and they would never even know like so there's a layer to this where it depends on what baby step you're in it depends on how old your kids are and it also depends on your scope of like some people would say to go ten dollars over budget is like wow like we

Like we've just gone crazy. And other people have the margin where it's like, okay, I went 10 over. I can be flexible in another area. And so there's a lot of nuance to this that we don't get in the question. But I think just by kind of spreading it out and thinking through it like that, Rachel, she should be able to find herself in one of those categories to see, okay, have we gone totally crazy? Are we reasonable? Is it something that we just need to just add to the budget? Yeah.

Yep. Because, you know, we're in baby step four, five and six. So that's really the way you need to think through this. That's great. All right. Let's go to the phones. We have Rick in Tampa. Hey, Rick. Welcome to the show. Hi, ladies. Thank you for taking my call. Absolutely. How can we help?

So I just came across Steve Ramsey's videos yesterday. Oh, wow. So I have been listening and listening and listening. And I'm 55. I'm married. I have two young children, preteens. And both my wife and I work.

And we're about, I'm taking a guess about $125,000 in debt. Our income combined income that we bring home, um, or growth should I say is roughly about 145,000. So I don't have any student loan. My wife doesn't have student loans.

What kind of debt is the 125? Can you itemize it? It's mainly, we rent. We live in Florida. We rent. So my rent is like two grand. Okay, but that's not debt. Okay. I know. But we have two cars and I have two motorcycles. How much do you owe on all those? $80,000.

Can you go through like the first car? What do you owe? So the first car I, so a lot of this is during COVID when we bought, um, because COVID really screwed us up financially. Um, so the first car is about 30 grand. The value, um,

is 11. Okay. Yikes. Is what they're saying. What about the next car? And then the next car I had to get after I had a car accident, my car got totaled. I went lower just to try and find a car for work. So I think I owed like 26. I think the value is like 15. How'd that happen? If your car was totaled and then they gave you a payout for you to go and get another car...

The guy that, no, because the car that I had was upside down. And the guy that hit me, no license, no registration, no insurance. Got you. Oh my gosh. Okay. What about the motorcycles? So the motorcycles, I have a friend of mine. He took both of them. He's making the payments on them. So they're kind of out of sight, out of mind. But they're in your name? They're in my name. How much do you owe on those? $40. What are they worth? $2.

probably 30. okay oh my goodness so what we're learning like what I want people to learn who are listening is vehicles are depreciating assets they go down in value and we're seeing this in real time with four different vehicles things with motors and them go down in value um and you're feeling this in a really hard way what other debt do you have

So we have credit card debt. It's not that much, maybe, you know, six, seven thousand. I have hospital bills because of the accident. Okay. How much are those? Probably three grand. Okay. How are you doing now after the accident? Are you still working? Everything's good? I'm forcing myself to work. I don't have a choice. And you're in pain?

Uh, my level is like a 10 every day. My wife has to help me up out of bed to get to work. Oh, Rick, I'm so sorry. Yeah. What kind of job, what kind of, what kind of, uh, career are you in? I drive a truck. I do flatbed work. Are you, um, is there a, is there a plan for you in the near future to maybe exit that type of career and do something that's less physical?

I want to and I can. The problem is that I have guaranteed pay. So I have 40 hours plus 10 hours of guaranteed overtime. And once I take a 40-hour job, automatically I'm going to lose about $1,900 a month just in overtime pay. So of the $145,000 income, what portion of that is your income? About $90,000. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Well, for the short term, Rick, and you said, yeah, the car's worth $11,000. That's what they said. Who is they? Okay. Okay. So you did. Okay. That's great. Because a private sale, you're always going to get more than going to a dealership. Right. So, yeah, for you guys, you are definitely way over the suggested amount when it comes to

having things with, you know, we say wheels, motors. We want that to be half of your annual income. And you guys, from my calculations with the motorcycles, which I know you're not counting in your head because the friend has them, but it's still under your name. It's around $116,000. So you guys are way over, way over in car. And so if I were you, I mean, this is where I would really, and it's going to hurt you

because there is a point that some of these, I think there's one, maybe one, maybe your car I may keep.

And try to pay off But the others I mean honestly The $30,000 And the motorcycles Rick I mean I would Sell them to your friends If he wants them I'm trying to Okay good He wants them So I'm trying to sell them to him Okay that's great Yep and you're just Going to have to take out a loan For the difference On some of these But I'd rather have A $10,000 loan on a car Versus a $26,000 loan And you guys are going to Have to Yeah scrape down $10,000

scrape up some money and really, you know, replace that car for you, I think is going to be one of the biggest things. And then you and your wife, I want you to sit down and do a budget, Rick. Stay on the line. Kelly's going to pick up. We're going to give you every dollar premium because I want you guys to sit down and know where exactly every single dollar of your paycheck's going. That's going to help you on this debt payoff.

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Hi, thank you so much. It's really a pleasure to be on the show. Thank you for taking my call. So I do apologize if I'm hyperverbal. It's the excitement and the coffee couple together. You're good, Wanda. You're great. How can we help?

So I recently got a divorce and I owe my husband $50,000 and I'm not quite sure where to take the money from or borrow the money from for the first $50,000. I don't have any money in my savings. I owe $25,000 on my car, $12,000 to my 401k and my other expenses.

is my home and my mortgage is $24.70 a month. I looked into refinancing and I really don't want to refinance my house because my interest rate on my house is $2.25. And so I've been looking at other like HELOC personal loans. Personal loan is like 12%. The HELOC is 10%. And I just don't know

okay. So Wanda, the $50,000, is it because of the house? Like, are you supposed to give him the equity? Yes, I'm supposed to give him the equity out of the house. Originally, I was supposed to give him $150,000, but he knows that he didn't put any money into the house or anything like that. So he settled and said, I'll take $50,000. So I'm just trying to figure out the best course to give him the $50,000. I did take on a second

job. I've been working the second job now for about three months. I haven't received any monies for it because I just haven't turned in the invoices because... What's the time frame that you owe the $50,000?

Um, it's supposed to be third cause we went back to court. So it's 30 days after the, um, court ruling. And so the, and I got the court ruling in the mail two weeks ago. So I have, yeah. Yeah. So into basically in two to three weeks it's due. Yes. Okay. Um, so let me kind of set the stage for this right quick. Is his name on the mortgage?

Like, is he on the deed or the title of the house? It is. So typically, typically what would happen if you're divorced, you would do a refinance to get his name off of it. And you would do a cash out refinance so that you could also pull the 50K out, give him his money. And now you're free and clear from that. But I see why you don't want to do that because of the interest rate. But I now double check this because I,

I'm not sure, but I feel like you can, when you refinance, you don't necessarily have to refinance the entire, the entire mortgage. Yeah. But just the amount that you're a portion of it. Yes. Yeah. And so a portion of it would be at the old interest rate and a portion of it would be at the new interest rates. Yeah. Have you talked to, have you talked to your lawyer, Wanda about different options when it, because considering it's because of the house, um,

And his name is on it. So you are going to have to get his name off the home. Yeah, right. So what I was advised was I actually talked to the accountant. And so what I was advised to do was to do a quick deed to take his name off the title. And if he agrees to stay on the loan, let his name stay on the loan. Because if I ask them to take his name off the loan, they may make me refinance anything.

anyways, and then I lose the two and a quarter. And so he said he was agreeable with his name being on the loan, and he would just quick deed the home into my name. Yeah, yeah, a quick deed is definitely a great option when it comes to this situation. Yeah, I mean, we never tell people to go and take on debt, but there is a point that you're

You're going to be owed this from a legal standpoint. And so you have to give that money. And Wanda, you don't have it right now. And so I don't want to see you take equity out of your home and get into that mess of a HELOC or anything like that. So it may just have to be a personal loan. Okay. Even though the interest rate for the personal loans is just through the roof.

Well, my, I mean, from the court of law, you have to give this money. So either Wanda, you, you sell your home and you know what I mean? Take the, take the equity and pay him what he's due. And you have to go find a new situation. Are you able to sustain the home that you're in? Oh, most definitely. Most definitely. Definitely. Yeah. The house is now worth almost 700,000. When we purchased the house, it was at 391. And so, um, I'm very, how much do you owe on it? How much do you owe on it?

360. Okay. And in California, I can't buy another house at 391 and not in the area that I live in anyway. Sure, sure. How much do you make? How much are you making? I make $188,000 a year. Good for you, Wanda. And you're bringing... How much are you bringing home after taxes and insurance and everything per month? What's your take-home pay? A little over $6,000. Okay. Yeah, I mean, and your mortgage payment's $2,000. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so you're in...

But, and that's the reason why I got a second job too, because whatever I do, I want to chop it down with the second job. Cause I don't know which way to go with that yet. A hundred percent. Yeah. I mean, I mean,

I mean, you're kind of stuck between, you know, a hard place. I don't want you to make a bad decision with your home. I think that would be unwise. So it's not this idea that like, you know, and it's one thing if you couldn't afford the payment on your income, but you're able to sustain that, which is wonderful and great. But yeah, I would, I would, yeah, do the, yeah, do the quick deed. I would, again, ask, ask the accountant again, wrap back around and just ask what Jade was talking about. And if there's a way to take a portion of it,

where you're able to pay him out of it. And the entire loan is not then subject to the new interest rates because that would not be smart. And it's a blessing that he dropped from $150,000 to $50,000.

like that's that's a big blessing yeah so so wanda i mean i'm looking at this so let's just say you have you you have fifty thousand dollars in debt because of the divorce you got a twenty five thousand dollar car and you got a twelve thousand dollar 401k debts uh seven eight i mean that's yeah that's eighty seven thousand dollars you make a hundred and eighty eight thousand i want you to pay this off in 18 months wanda

That's why I got a second job. Yeah, which I'm so proud of you. Seriously. Put all the money to it. Yeah, and that's the thing is, you know, that when you look at this high income, I'm like, man, this is, and I know you're in Southern California, so it doesn't go as far as it would in Kansas City or something. I get it. But man, you have a lot on your side, Wanda. But from this point forward, I want you to draw that line in the sand and say no more. I'm not doing car payments. We're not doing credit cards. We're not, you know, borrowing our 401k. I'm living on what I make.

I'm going to be, you know, funding retirement. I mean, why? It's because, I mean, how old are you, Wanda? 55. 55, yeah. I'm 55 this year. Great. So, yeah, here in five to 10 years, wanting to retire, you know, and do something with your life. And you're going to be able to make a lot of progress really quickly, which I'm so excited for you. So, congratulations. I'm so sorry that, you know, with the divorce and everything that's kind of brought you to this point, that's always...

heartbreaking and grief in and of itself. That's so hard. But you have a lot of great change ahead and a lot of things that you can do and make a big impact. Thank goodness that he was a good guy and was like, I know I didn't put any money into this house. It could have been $150,000. I think that's the really difficult part about one of the many difficult parts about divorces. There's all these assets and it's like somebody gets to keep the house, but

if you've been living in that house together, there's also a portion of it that goes to the other spouse. And so how do they get their money? And so that's one of the frustrating things. And I know like during these times where interest rates, it's like, if I had it at 2.3%, you don't want to refinance in order to, with these rates. And so I think that's,

very painful. Yes, for sure. Yep. And again, it's one of these things that to tackle the debt snowball method and even looking at the car, I mean, she's still she can pay off her car in 18, 12 to 18 months. One hundred percent. You know, buffer so she can keep the car, pay it off. It's not an outrageous, you know, different amount considering her income. But she never needs to borrow from her 401k. No. Ever again. No. Wanda, you hear me. Thanks for calling in. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. So one of the parts of winning with money is being intentional. That's right. And the way to be intentional and really specific and detailed with your money is to do a budget. And we tell people regardless of where you are financially, a budget is there to help you win. So whether you are drowning in debt, you need a budget. Whether you're completely debt-free and you're doing great, you need a budget.

you still need a budget. So you're just being intentional with your money. And you, Jade, you talk about this a lot, especially on your social media. And people have been submitting budgets

to you yeah and you've been talking about you know walking through line items and all of it I did a call out I was like listen if you want help with your budget send me your numbers and I'll plug them in and I'll feature you on social media and so I got tons and tons of submissions and so one of the women that called in she was like listen here's you know I'm

I live in Atlanta, Georgia. I'm divorced. I make $95,000 a year. Help me out. And so I thought it would be actually really fun. Her name is Ariel. If we brought Ariel on and I can go over her budget with her live on the show, because I've already looked at it and I kind of started thinking like coming up with some ideas because she told me her biggest goal is to get out of debt. Okay. And so I think we should bring Ariel on and kind of get into it with her. Wonderful. Ariel, are you there?

Yes, I am. Hi. Hey, thanks for calling in and letting us do this because I think a really tactical budget walkthrough I think is so, so helpful. And those of you listening either on radio or podcast, you may not be able to see the visuals of this, but those of you on YouTube will be able to bring some stuff up for sure. So Ariel, I'll just kind of give a quick

overview of the numbers and you tell me if I'm wrong about anything or if anything sounds weird but I have that you make $95,000 a year but after taxes investing in insurance you bring home about $6,200 a month yes okay and so on your budget I broke that into do you get paid twice a month

So I don't get paid. I get paid once a month. Oh, wow. But I also have some little side hustles. Yes, I'm used to it. It's 17 years I've been getting paid. Okay. Well, when I did your budget, I just... Because I didn't know that. I broke it into two checks just because I figured most people get paid like that. But if you... I know you can't see it, but I...

did not see any side hustles. And I was thinking if her biggest thing is to get out of debt, she needs a side hustle. So if you're watching on YouTube, you can see that I wrote in the line item of side hustle for you just as an idea. The side hustles I have are like, they're not consistent. So I didn't know how to put it into my budget. Okay. What would you, what do you think like monthly you put in? Just to guess. Uh,

If I were to guess, maybe about $600 extra from the side hustle. That's amazing. So I'm just going to plug that in live here to see how it changes your budget. Because before your margin, like after all of your expenses, your margin was like $241. But adding that side hustle is huge. Now your margin is like $885, which is a big deal. Before cutting anything, before anything. Yeah. Yeah.

So then you told me that you have an emergency fund and that emergency fund is like $2,200. Yes, I'm rebuilding it for the third time because it's always an emergency. Well, I built it back up. Well, one of the things, you know, you told me that your biggest goal was to get out of debt and then save up, you know, three to six months of emergencies. So for us, baby steps,

one is getting a thousand dollars saved and you're above that uh with this 2200 and it looks like you're still planning to put 300 a month towards it so if i were in your shoes i would cut that down to zero like today and that adds back if you see like your margin so scared now your margin is 1185 dollars to put towards debt okay and for anybody we haven't scrolled down to the debt this is per month yeah per month which is great

We haven't scrolled down to your debt yet, but I'm just going to like spoiler alert and let the people know that you're paying out $1,700 in payments. Yeah, it's a lot in debt. So having that kind of margin to paid off is good. So let's keep going through. I'm just going to call out like everything going on that I see. So your mortgage is 1800 bucks a month, which is fine with what you bring home. You have a great income. Um, the typical things, cell phones. Um, you know, I love that. I love that. Everything looks pretty reasonable. Um,

cell phones felt a little high but i know you have kids so i'm guessing that one of your kids has a phone okay two of two of them have phones oh okay then that's a good number gas at 350 um and what do you do for a living by the way i am a teacher in elementary school okay wow you have a great salary i love that now yes i've been doing it for 17 years okay there we go right now here's where i'm really proud of you groceries five hundred dollars

Yeah, so this is something I actually started last year after I read a book about budget mom. So I actually take out $500 a month and I do $125 a week in cash. And once the cash is gone, we're done with buying groceries that week and we eat whatever's in the house. And it's working for a year now. I love that. That's amazing. And I love that your restaurant budget is zero. It can be done. Yeah, I'm like...

So I gave myself an entertainment budget. It's like, well, there's something over here, guys. But my kids know we eat at home. We eat at home. I love that. So you set the precedent. They already know. So going down into your personal items, the things that I would cut because I see like you and your daughter get your hair done. It sounds like you spend $300. How necessary is that? Because listen, when I was a kid, somebody had to do my hair. We just get our hair braided. And in Atlanta, it's just...

I know. Actually, $300 for the two of us to get braids is actually pretty cheap. I know that it is. But that's like my only luxury item. Okay. So then if you keep the hair braiding, because listen, I know the way I grew up, I wished somebody could braid my hair. If you keep that on there, then I would say that you need to cut this $60 for the kid's allowance because...

There will be a time for that, but the time is when you're out of debt. And if you keep the hair, then I'd also take off the $75 for nails.

What would you, Rachel? Yeah, the nails is not that important. Yep. Got to get out of here. It hurts a little bit. Now, you also have on here $150 for child care, but you told me that this is the last month for that. So we can take that off. May was the last month. My son is now in middle school. So no more child care. I love it. I did the happy dance. Yeah, for sure. And I know you're on the phone and you can't see this, but your margin, just making those changes, you started at $241 of margin and now you have $1,470 of margin.

Okay. That's awesome. So, and this is just guys, this is just Rachel us plugging the numbers in every dollar being intentional and then going through and going, okay, what's necessary. What's not necessary. And what, and that side hustle has helped too. So that extra job, but yeah. So when you go down to the debt, Jade, I mean, quick math, but for her to be able to throw at her, at her lowest, um,

Oh, there it is. Yeah. I actually paid off the two lowest credit cards. I love it. You did? You paid them off? Yes. Great job. Okay. I love that. So if I click into here, because the balance was $84 on one and you were paying 40 bucks a month. That one's gone. And then that's gone. Oh my God.

my gosh i'm just gonna delete them yeah and the third one is almost gone i only have 37 which is this month wow i'm paying that this month but you're and with the margin we we just found two i think that you'll be able to knock out credit card two three four and then what was right below that the social security she should be able to knock out everything what security eq like security equity what was that april um

The Vivid security For my house Oh okay So like that probably Will be able to be This month And then you look At next month Credit card five Which is almost A thousand dollars That will be done And then a little bit Of credit card seven Yeah And then the next month And you keep going down You know you keep

going and seeing like, oh my gosh, it really is. And all those minimum payments will be going to the next step because you're using the debt snowball method. And I think the way your debts are is really a great teaching point to show people how the debt snowball works. Because

to Rachel's point you pay one off that money goes back into your margin and so I kind of played that out on paper for you and if you keep going the way you're going here's the thing when I played it out I didn't know that you had a side hustle so I played it out without a side hustle and just cutting those few areas in the budget and it was going to take 20 months for you to pay off the debt but now with that side hustle I bet that bought back several months yeah oh yeah yeah

Ariel, are you there? Yeah. Okay. Yes. Oh, and also, I cut up all my credit cards last year, so I'm not amassing any new debt. We are. Slow clap. This is how it's done, guys. That's so wonderful. Oh, my gosh. Ariel, well done. See, and it's just changing these habits. It's cutting up the credit card. It's saying...

Okay, I'm going to take on a side hustle. I'm going to eat for $500 a month. Did y'all hear that? Her and two teenagers eating for $500 a month. No restaurants. I mean, she's doing it. So yeah, Jade, I mean, I think within, yeah, I mean, 18 months. 18 months. Easy. 16 months. Amazing. Ariel, thanks for doing that. And what a great teaching point. And make sure you guys go to everydollar.com and check it out. You can build your own budget for free.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Rachel Cruz, hosting this hour with my friend and bestselling author, Jade Warshaw. And we are here again to help you out, America. You can give us a call at 888-825-5225. And we'll answer your questions about money, about life, relationships, about

relationships career give us a call up first we have john in houston hey john welcome to the show hello welcome thanks for having me i guess absolutely yes for sure how can we help well i uh i filed for divorce from my wife um about a month ago lots of transpired since we're kind of trying to maybe make it work going to marriage counseling um

In the interim of all this, we kind of split our finances about two or three months ago due to her spending and daughter. That's a long story. So fast forward to this last week. I got a bonus from work, a $30,000 bonus. By the time it was put into, I think it was about $24,000. I currently owe...

$11,000 on a credit card. Most of that is for the divorce attorney. And then the other issue I have is I have, during COVID, we had two credit cards with Chase that we quit paying because we lost our jobs and obviously employed now. But there's a lawsuit pending against me, and those are about $26,000 each. Okay.

So I don't know what to do with this bonus money. One, I don't know if I should tell the wife or not because we're not divorced. We're trying to work. That's part of it. But the other part is, do I keep the cash and try to settle with Chase? Do I pay off the current credit card that I have so I can get me back to debt free? Sort of-ish, other than my home. Just not real sure. Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Any other money saved?

um i have just a couple thousand dollars in the bank nothing nothing major okay okay by a couple like six or like two like two okay yes so the bonus is three thousand yes no no the bonus is twenty four thousand twenty four thousand my hearing is off today okay so what do you think you can settle these chase cars for have you kind of floated it out there to them i

I talked to the debt attorney that filed the lawsuits. He said there may be a 25,000 or a 25% reduction. Yeah. So he's thinking they could probably settle for about 20,000 each. Each. That'd be a total of 40. Okay. So there are two separate cases. So I don't, one's coming up the 1st of September and the other one I don't have a date on yet. Okay. So the one coming up the 1st of September, if you can settle it, I think there's part of this since it's already like gone to court, like it's already settled.

you know it's progressed to the point where you're going to have to pay something i do think there's a smart part that would hold on to that money and not put it on the other eleven thousand dollar debt because you know this is coming and you know you're going to be on the hook for paying whether it's the full sum or you know a reduced amount okay so yeah and then i guess just

Well, I was going to say yes. So and anything obviously you get in that lawsuit have in writing. And I would tell them, hey, I have $24,000. Well, I guess there are separate lawsuits you were saying. Correct. Okay. Yep. So I think getting them down as much as possible obviously would be the goal.

and ideally not going into collections and all of that, that you kind of just take care of it. Absolutely. And if that's the case, then yeah, you have $4,000. When does the other lawsuit hit? This one's September. Do you know when the other one will be? I don't know. I don't know. I mean, they've already kind of hit. This is obviously progressive. So now it's like going to the trial thing and all this other stuff where I'm going to have to pay Chase. It's already been on my credit. All that stuff's already kind of happened. How long is this? Oh, sorry. Was it all under your name or is your ex, or I guess she's not your ex, but is your wife's

name attached to this as well no they were all mine they were cards that i had prior to our marriage and we've always done good and then we spent a bunch of money and then we tried to get out of debt and then we were doing okay and then covid hit we both literally lost our jobs in a week and it was pay mortgage and feed our children or pay this credit card well we chose a home and children as you should yeah how much are you making a year john

I bring in my base salaries, $104,000, and my bonuses are in the $60,000 to $80,000 range annually. Okay. And with her, what does she make? It varies. We own a small business, a food truck business, so she brings in roughly, I would say, $7,000.

$60,000 a year. Okay. And considering you guys are somewhat separated, I don't know if it's through legal means or not, have you guys separated your finances?

Yes, we did that about two or three months prior, and that was kind of her final straw for us. But her spending was really the issue for me. So these three accounts, are these the only debts that you're on the hook for? Is there a car? Is there anything else? There is a Cadillac that we purchased together. That's her car, not my car. So in the divorce, she would get the car. I have a truck. It's paid for.

Other than if we were divorced today, the only debt I would have would be the two chase and the $11,000 credit card. Okay. But you're making, you know, on a good year, 180 plus a year. Yeah. Correct. So, I mean, when I look at these debts and knowing that one of them is going to be settled, you should have this knocked out like lickety split. What's your living situation?

uh currently living is she moved out uh thursday so literally just two days ago she moved out she's living with a friend and her two kids and i'm living in my house with my two kids and what was the second second marriage then for both of you yeah yes okay and are you able to cover the mortgage in a way that it's no more than 25 percent of your take home without her income added to it mortgage is three thousand dollars a month so that's not a problem

That's great. Yep. So, yeah. So to answer your question of why you called in for sure, I would take the one that had the lawsuit attached to it, go ahead and knock that out. And then like Jade's saying, I mean, I would cut back on everything until you get this mess cleaned up. And then I think you do have this kind of fresh start. But I also, I'm cheering on for you guys, you know, that possibly I heard a little bit of hope there at the beginning of the call. Yeah. That you guys can, yeah, I think, you know,

You do do some work, do some counseling therapy, and I pray that it is reconciled. I think that's always the best hope for for this. We never want to see, you know, marriages torn apart. And he said part of it was because of her spending. But we do see money issues happening.

play into that. But always, you guys remember that those money issues usually is an indicator of something else going on underneath. And that's why having, you know, professionals on your side to really dig in to know why. I mean, we are complex people and the way we, whether it's Medicaid or whatever it may be, our habits come out sideways. And

And when you can get to the root of that, of who you are as a person, that's really a beautiful thing. So, John, we're cheering you guys on. I really do hope that there's reconciliation. But just from the money standpoint on your side,

I think you can have a lot of this cleaned up really quickly. So I'm thankful you got back on your feet job-wise since COVID because I know that was a pain point for a lot of people. Absolutely. No, I feel like today, Rachel, we saw a big theme of divorce, which is tough and it's so difficult, but I think it just...

drives home the point even more. Like I've heard Dave say it, marriages need maintenance. Like you need that regular, the same way you bring your car in for a checkup, you go to the doctor for a physical every year. Like you need a regular rhythm of let's go see a doctor

counselor like let's just make sure everything's good and let's make sure you know premarital counseling all those things that are checks and balances to make sure that you're operating at an optimal safe level in your marriage and we have Dr. John Deloney here on our team you guys so check out his content and books because it's kind of in this whole realm of life this is The Ramsey Show

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So I always hear someone will kind of ask something or be like, hey, there's a situation. Like, it's not me. It's my friend. Right. It's kind of that I'm asking for a friend because you never want to admit it's you. And it's whether because the situation's terrible and you're like, I'm so embarrassed by it. And or you feel like it's a stupid question. You're like, I should know this better.

But asking for a friend. And so you came up with this like whole idea, Jay, which I love. Yeah. Asking for a friend. And so like, I feel like Rachel with money, there's all these things.

terms or like lingo or jargon out there and it's like should I know that like at this stage in my life and so gross versus net pay I feel like that's what's the difference I'm asking for a friend asking for a friend and there's a couple of ways that we could explain that but honestly Rachel I think this video explains it best take a look at this

So basically all it is, have you ever been to a restaurant and you get a drink and you're like, yeah, I'll have a Coke and they, it's filled with ice. Right. And you're like, there's hardly any Coke in here. And when they take the ice cube out, you see how much drink is actually left. It's basically not a lot. Less than half, less than half in that example. Very disappointing. Yeah. It's a great example of gross versus net and gross is the cup that looks like, Oh, it's full. It's great. It's,

Yes. And then the net is what you take home and you're saying, oh yeah, after taxes. Yeah. The ice is the taxes. The ice is the taxes. That's right. That's right. And so when you look at your paycheck, you know, you might, you'll probably see like the different numbers. Like this is your gross pay. This is your net pay. A lot of times when you, I mean, most of the time when you go for a job interview and you're negotiating pay, what you're really talking about is gross salary, right? It's like, you're going to make $50,000.

A year you're going to make you know a hundred thousand dollars a year that is gross and it would behoove all of us to look and go okay what does that mean for me after taxes with my budget does it work because I know there's so many people who when they finally get their check they're like wait a minute.

Oh, yeah. I was planning for. I think we all had that. Our first jobs, right? You go, you know, mine was at the mall. I had a job at the mall. You know, it's that first big job and you're like, okay. And you get that paycheck and you think, what? Yes. I thought it was going to make, you know, you calculate your head. You're like, oh, no, no, no. Taxes. Yeah. So gross pay is a total you earn before any deductions or taxes are taken out of your check. And.

and the net is what you have left. So for example, if you have a salary of $50,000, that's your gross pay for the year, and your yearly salary is divided by the number of pay periods you have, such as if you're paid weekly or semi-monthly or monthly, that's the gross amount that you get to see on the check. If you're paid semi-monthly, which is twice a month, you would have 24 pay periods in the year. So the $50,000 divided by 24 would be about $2,083 gross

per check but nobody cares about the gross amount we want to know about the net amount the way I always learned it or like remembered it in my head is that if you go fishing you get to take home what's in your net yes I thought that or mine the gross I always look in my way is this the gross oh gross gross I don't want to see that number because I'm gonna be disappointed that's what I think I was like gross gross number gross number but I don't like that gross nasty don't don't show me that number inside the minds of Rachel and Jade I know I know I know

I love that. So here's the thing. Again, if you own a business, maybe you're self-employed, your gross income is usually like, this is like the total revenue that I'm bringing in. This is before like payroll and all the business expenses, right? So that's kind of the way to think of it. So net pay is your total profit

pay minus taxes or deduction taken out of your check. We could also call it take home pay, right? That's right. Yeah. Which is when people call on the show all the time, they'll say, I make $80,000 a year. And we're like, okay, yeah. What's your take home pay? What do you see every single month? And so, you know, we don't always do that, Jade. And that's some of our negative Nancy's in the comments. They're always like, y'all just use that number. And you know, but you forget about taxes. We don't forget about taxes. Yeah.

But we don't forget. They're just the fact of the matter is it there's a different differential there depending on what state you live in. And so sometimes it's hard for us to guess. And so we usually try to ask. But the deductions that take place between gross and net, we're talking about federal income tax, state income tax, which is the biggest differential, Social Security and Medicare taxes. If you have any like wage garnishments that we don't know about.

health insurance premiums. A lot of times if your job will give you a health insurance that's coming out of your check. And so I wouldn't call that a tax per se, but it is something that will lower your take-home pay. And then of course, if you have retirement or 401k coming out of your check,

Again, it's not a FICA, you know. That's right. It's not something that's coming out in that way, but it is something that is lowering your take-home pay. So all of those things you really have to think of when you're planning your budget and making sure that you're looking at your pay stub every day.

Single time. So, so important. But yes, whether you're an employee or a business owner, working with the tax pro can help you make accurate withholdings. So you know exactly what's coming out of your paychecks. You know, you want to make sure like those withholdings are correct because...

A lot of times withholdings are too much or not enough. And that is determining your tax return, whether you have this big hefty tax return or not. You owe a big tax bill or you're getting a big tax return. Yeah. Either way, you want kind of more that middle ground. So looking at your...

Looking at that part is huge. Yes. So again, gross versus net gross is the gross amount. You don't want to get too stuck on it because that's not the amount that you keep. Gross. Nasty. Don't look at that one. It's yucky. What you get to keep is what you take in your net and take home. That's right. See? We're so helpful. No, but it's like one of those simple concepts that, again, it's that jargon that everyone's like, golly, I wish, you know, some people are like,

like, I wish I learned this in school. Like if I did, I didn't have to Google or ask Jade and Rachel. And so honestly, learning this stuff as early as possible, I think is such a gift. And we talk about this a lot at Ramsey Solutions that if you have kids, you guys, it is your responsibility to teach them these things. But also when schools get involved or churches or places in the community, that is just a bonus. And we are seeing a lot of states are actually mandating financial literacy now for high school, which is

great and and hopefully you know they have a great curriculum and ramsey we actually have a curriculum that is in high schools all across america called foundations and personal finance and i think we actually have a video um from them because it's such a great such a great resource

How do people make money investing in the stock market? I'm not sure. I don't even know what a stock market is. Yeah, I don't know what that is. It's like gambling in Vegas. How do you know when you are able to retire? Don't you have to be like old? I feel like for most jobs they give you a retirement plan and insurance and all that. Tell us what you know about how taxes work. I haven't been taught a whole lot about that. I just know you get them.

Every year, I think. Yeah, I ain't going to lie, I have no idea about that one, so. What types of insurance do you need to have? Phone bills. Does the dentist have insurance? I think that's when you get older, though. Life insurance. Yeah, I mean, I don't think, unless you're worried about dying. What is a good credit score? I learned about this. I did. Not that late. Around like $700. Yeah, $700. $700.

So good. Okay. So that was something our team did where they just interviewed a bunch of high school students on some, some of the basics about adulting. We'll call it just adulting. Cause that's everything from insurance to taxes and investing. And again, when you can have this knowledge, uh,

early on, then you're able to really change your mindset around money, the way you're doing your habits around money, and the earlier, the better. So if you guys wanna check out Foundations, it really is an incredible resource. You can go to ramseysolutions.com/foundations. And thanks to all the teachers and the school districts across America. I mean, we graduated, what was it like, how many students? Was it over 10, I mean, 10 million or something? I mean, it's crazy. It's grown so much over the past couple of years.

And we really want good education, the right education into our schools. We don't want credit card companies, obviously educating our kids who have alternative motives. We want them to learn the common sense way when it comes to money, but also educating them on some of these more complex issues like investing and that kind of thing. But man, the earlier you can learn that, the better off you're going to be. So again, you can go to ramseysolutions.com slash foundations and check that out.

I didn't know about any of this stuff when I was in school. I remember the first person to mention anything about investing was a professor that I had in college. And it was just like offhanded. He said, you know, like if you invested a dollar a day for this many days, you'd have, and I,

whatever the number he said, I just remember being intrigued by that being like, wait, what do you mean? And like, I had questions after the class about that, not like music history or whatever we were learning. I'm like, what was that investing thing that you were talking about? Like, what is the stock market? Like I just had never totally heard of it. Well, if no one's, yeah, if no one's talking about or teaching it. So yeah, Barron's out there.

Talk to your kids. You know, one thing mom and dad did so well is that they did not force us into like a mutual fund summit or something on the weekends. Like it was nothing legalistic, but it was just in the ebb and flow of life. Just be like, hey, did you know this? Or hey, let me talk to you about this. It's such a gift. It's such a gift to give the youth, the kids of today. This is The Ramsey Show.

My friend John Maxwell says your leadership ability, for better or worse, always determines your effectiveness. And he's right. Your small business will never grow past your ability to lead, which is why it's so important for business owners like you to take intentional steps to become better leaders.

With the Entrez Leadership System, you'll use practical rhythms to make yourself a better small business leader. So go to ramseysolutions.com slash better leader to download our free getting started guide today. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Up next, we have Chris in Charlotte. Hey, Chris, welcome to the show. Hey, how are you doing? Thanks for having me. Absolutely. How can we help?

All right. So a little bit about myself. I'm 27, married with two kids. My wife and I wrote a check to pay off our $58,000 graduate student loans, and we're officially debt-free. Nice. Amazing, Chris. Well done. Thank you. Thank you. I have a unique situation where I'm a pro athlete, and I build a cupboard by each team I play off.

After saving up for the next two years since we're debt-free, should our focus be on buying a house with cash and buying a car with cash? That's a great question. So how are you guys doing currently with your cars? Because you mentioned paying a car with cash. But you're debt-free. You don't have any loans on your current cars, but you're just looking to upgrade. Is that what you're thinking?

No, no. So we don't have cars. So when we go overseas, they provide us with a car. So when we come home, we usually just rent a car for the two months that we're here. But we don't want to do that no more. We want to actually go ahead and start owning cars. Oh, I hear you. Okay. So you guys don't currently own a home in the States because you're traveling, I guess, to Europe or where are you going to play? Yes. Yes. Okay. And then where are you going? Turkey.

Turkey. Okay. Nice. And then when you come home, you're now saying, gosh, I mean, we have no debt. We have probably, you know, you're making, I'm sure, great money. So you're thinking we want to have a house in the States that we can really start, you know, having some money. So the first thing, yeah, I, with your income, can I ask what your income is? Or you don't have to say if you don't want to. Yes.

Yes, yes. So next year, so this year coming up, I actually leave tomorrow. I'll be making $400,000 for the next 10 months. And then the next year after that, it'll increase to $450,000. Okay. And then you have two months where you're not making anything or do you have other deals that kind of fill in those gaps for the other two months of the year?

Two months, not really making anything. I run a camp, but it's nothing substantial. Okay. So the first thing that I would want to make sure is, I mean, you guys are debt free. I'd want to make sure you guys have stacked up three to six months of expenses as quickly as possible. Do you have that in liquid? Yes, I do. Okay. And then the next thing is, are you regularly investing at 15% of what you earn?

No. Okay. That's the first before that's the first rhythm I'd want to start is like, okay, we're investing because I don't have to tell you like in sports, you know, you're on top and then something happens and you're injured and you're like, oh crap. Right. So I want to make sure that that rhythm starts as quickly as possible. And then after that, you know, the way we teach home buying is you're saving up in your case, I'd save up, you know, no less than 20%. And then, you know,

Of the down payment. Right. And then after that, you don't want the payment to be any more than 25 percent of your take home pay. Now, if you're like, hey, I just want to pay cash for a house like that's also an option. If you're like, I just want to save up the income and pay cash. You have that option as well.

Okay. Yeah. And I, and I think too, Chris, you know, there's, um, a reality to your situation that, you know, you guys will just be in the States for two months at a time. Um, are you looking to retire and come back full time soon? Or, or, you know, are you going to play this out as long as possible? Yeah. So, uh, my timeframe, I'm 27 now, so I think I would play for another good six to seven years. Um, my income might not be as high as it is right now, but, um,

I was thinking projected around the $200,000 to $300,000 range. Okay, going forward. For sure. So since you're only going to be in this house for two months out of the year, you guys...

it'd be tempting to get something crazy and be like, you know, big and flashy. But I wouldn't. I would go really conservative on the first home. I would put as much down as possible, even pay cash for it. And again, you guys will just be back two months at a time. And that's going to grow so much in your home value over the next few years that by the time you come back,

you know, full time, even if it's in five years, there's a good chance you could sell that, take some of this cash that you've been accumulating over the past and then go get a great home that you guys will be in year round. So I think it's a really smart idea. Yes, I would go cash forward if you can. Again, it can be something, you know, really conservative, but paying cash for it would be a great. But if not, you know, you can just put down

maybe 50% or 75% down would be great and pay cash for a car. But start that investment, Chris. You can check out our SmartVestor Pros if you go to RamseySolutions.com and sit down with an investment professional and really work through some of these numbers with them too because you guys have some great opportunities to do some amazing things. And you already have, Chris. Well done. I applaud you for the decisions you guys have made. All right, up next we have Savannah in Houston. Hey, Savannah. Welcome to the show.

Hey, thanks for having me. Absolutely. How can we help? So I reached out because I had a fraudulent loan pulled out my name. It was one of those classic, you know, text message scams. And I had just fell right into it. This happened back in February or March, I believe. Yeah, so back in March. And I've just been dealing with it ever since.

Since it happened, I've reached out to Navy Federal multiple times to get help. They've since told me after multiple encounters

Three times that I was responsible after me appealing responsible for this said that and have also taken my paycheck for my direct deposit automatically have also whenever they were investigating the incident, they gave me I forget what they called it, but it was about $1,000.

$2,000 while they sorted out the investigation. And then they later pulled that money back and different deposits that have gone to my account, they've automatically taken out. Okay. So they have access to your checking account. Yes. Yes. Navy federal does. That's who I had my bank with.

Okay, so they're garnishing your wages on a loan that is not yours. So I would immediately close your account. You need to open up a new one. They don't need to have any access to your account. And then, I mean, if they're not doing anything, then I would pursue legal action. I mean, this is a classic case of identity theft and someone taking your identity. Absolutely.

Have you talked to any legal counsel? Yes. So I've done a lot that I haven't mentioned yet, but I mean, I've really taken just about every action that I have access to or can afford. So I...

went to my JAG office. I'm active duty, so we have a JAG office. Okay, okay. I went to talk to them and basically they are military related. There's nothing that they can do for me in this section of law. But he advised me to report to the government that I'm at risk for identity theft.

identity theft, did that, um, take out all of my money and move it to a different bank account. She did that, um, and report to a bureau called one moment. It's a credit bureau that is over Navy federal, basically report a complaint to them that maybe federal isn't taking my issue seriously. Um, I did that and, um,

Haven't really heard anything back from them. How long has it been? Well, I filed a complaint with Consumer Financial Protection Bureau two months ago. I got a package back from them, but it was kind of just documentation that I filed the complaint. There's no new information.

On that. Okay. I mean, my, yeah, honestly, Savannah, my, my next step would probably be to contact an actual lawyer and have them get involved because they're going to be able to, you know, do more legal action than you just as like a citizen and hopefully have some level of intimidation to some of them, right? To say, oh my gosh, this is not, yeah, it's obviously not correct. Yeah.

and you're not liable for any of that. You are not liable. Someone forged your signature, they took your identity, and they took money out in your name. So yeah, so obviously you've done a great job, Savannah, at this point, keeping all the documentation. I would keep a very, very close record of everything. But if you don't hear anything back in the next 30 days, again, from them after contacting them a third, fourth time,

I would probably contact, yeah. Yeah. Get a lawyer. I'd be turning the tables and be like, well, maybe I'll come after you. Yeah, that's right. I mean, absolutely. But I'm glad that, yeah, you've moved your accounts over. Yeah. For sure. So they can't garnish your wages. So I'm so sorry, Savannah. So sorry. This is The Ramsey Show.

Our scripture of the day is 1 Peter 3, 15. But in your hearts, revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect. You can't knock on opportunity's door and not be ready. Bruno Mars. Well said, Bruno. Well said. Love it.

All right, let's go to Taylor in Dallas, Texas. Hey, Taylor, welcome to the show. Hello. Hi, thanks for calling in. How can we help? I lost my son in a car accident a couple of months ago. Oh, Taylor. And he had a big life insurance policy that we didn't know about. He wasn't married and no children.

And I would like to share the money with my other children, but right now I'm just overwhelmed. We're not sure how to go about doing that. One is very responsible financially. The other one is not. And I'm just not sure exactly what we should do. I'm so sorry. Taylor, what was his name?

I'd rather not say. Okay, that's fine. That's fine. Oh, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I can't imagine. How old was he? 24. I'm so sorry. Yeah, grief is, I mean, that's the hell on earth, that no parent, that phone call that no one wants. So our hearts are with you. I'm so sorry. So what I honestly would do, Taylor, is nothing right now.

um you guys are grieving um there's no urgency there's not a you know there's not kids in the picture his you know he doesn't have children or a spouse um so there's not immediate urgent need right now and honestly what we always recommend to people that have gone through something really traumatic or really um difficult whether it's a death or a divorce is just to

Slow down and, you know, wait a year, wait a year before you make any major financial decisions. And so giving his life insurance away, I think is a really beautiful way to honor his legacy. But I would consider that a major financial decision.

So I would honestly just open up a high yield savings account and I would put that money in and I would just sit and cry and grieve as a mom and just kind of let some of this settle. Yeah. And then I think you may have more of kind of a clear mind to make some of these decisions in regards to your other two kids. How old are they? Yeah.

30 and 34. 30 and 34. Okay, so they're older. Yeah. Do they have, are they married with kids? One, yes. One married, no kids. Okay. Which one was the, you said one was really responsible, one is not. Is the one that is married and kids? No. No children. Okay. They're very responsible. Okay. Okay.

Yeah, I agree with Rachel. You probably have some thoughts in your mind right now that maybe you would do with this money, but there's a lot that can change in a year. You might find the one that's, you know, quote, irresponsible now might start turning things around or you might see other patterns that start to develop that change kind of what you're viewing. But the biggest point of this is

nothing's clear right now. Like grief is such a, it's such a cloud, right? And, and I agree with Rachel a year, like even if it's longer, the thing with this money is there's not a high sense of urgency on it. Generally life insurance is to replace, you know, income that was depended on by somebody and no one was dependent on that income. And so you do have the piece to kind of just sit on this and,

like Rachel said, you put it in a savings account, it's still going to grow. And you have the time to kind of wait until that right point where you go, okay, I know what to do with this. I know what he would have wanted me to do with this. And you can feel confident in the decisions that you're making. And so I'm right with Rachel on that. I just, my heart goes out to you. Taylor, did he have, absolutely. Did he have a will in place on what he wanted to do with this money? No. No. Okay. Okay.

And as, yeah, so there's, I'm just thinking through any logistics on this side of it. Do you, where are you and your husband financially? Can I ask that? Oh, yes. We're everyday millionaires. Okay. Wow. Wonderful. Yeah. We've been doing this since I think about 2015. Okay. Very good. Yeah.

Yeah, I think we don't need it. But, you know, I don't I don't want to be irresponsible with it. And you won't be. No, you won't. And I think and I think even what you can do is, you know, and again, this is a year down the road and I think you can kind of make this but different.

People that have sums of money that give to their children, you know, some people do it in the form of assets that they help with a big down payment on a home or they help put towards paying off a mortgage. Yeah. So it's not just free cash. It's actually going towards something.

So even the one that's irresponsible, you know, that could be something you kind of think through that you're not just handing him cash. But if there is a way in his life that you're able to kind of help set him up better, if that's what you choose to do, that doesn't, you know, it's not magnifying an issue that he has, you know, is a great thing or, you know, even, you know,

with the son that has a family, you know, even talking through with them, you know, giving them, I think the, the freedom to say, Hey, here's, here's some money and maybe they get help their kids with it. You know, but I do, I do think the legacy piece is honoring to your son. And so I do love that thought of kind of passing that on to, to the rest of your family. Cause what, I mean, that is a, that's a beautiful way to honor his legacy. Yeah.

We've set aside 10% to give to different charities that we thought he would like. That's beautiful. I think that's a great plan. Taylor, are you seeing anyone, a counselor, or do you have a good church family around you?

We do have a good church family. We haven't found a counselor that we're comfortable with. Okay. We've been led to a grief share group that starts next month. Good. Okay, that's good.

Yeah, that's great. Yeah. We all need that. Oh, for sure. Yeah. And I think, you know, those intense emotions, you know, ones of grief and that kind of thing. I mean, having somebody in your corner that can walk you through this. I mean, it's just painful. It's, it's, it physically is just, it's torture. It's absolutely torture. But I think you're doing a wise thing to take care of you and your marriage. Because I do think as well, you know, some marriages, you know,

they don't survive traumatic experiences like this, like a death of a child. And so this is the time to lean into that with all of your might, whatever strength you have, lean into your marriage. Yeah. And I have a good point. I'm grateful for that. Yes. I'm so, I'm so, so glad. Well, Taylor, I hope, I hope that helps. And again, I'm so, so incredibly sorry, but for any of you listening, you know, just make it a point that,

And there's usually not a lot of rush. And, you know, we talk to even widows, you know, of a wife who has lost her husband or a husband who's lost their wife. And they want to take, you know, they get life insurance and they want to take it and pay off the house. They want to do all these things really quickly. And we even that. Just got to wait. Even that we just say slow down.

And this is the time to grieve. You don't need to make major decisions. If you're in a dire situation and something needs to happen, you can use that money for that. But if you are in a position where nothing...

no action has to be taken. I wouldn't. And sometimes even Jade, which is terrible, but there are people that even take advantage of those in grief. Of course. And they set them up in a bad plan and a bad financial product or whatever it is. And that's, you know, and emotions are so high at that time.

that some people are really, they fall to that so quickly. That's right. You're not thinking clearly. You're not reasoning the same way you would. Yep. That's right. That's right. So Taylor, our hearts and prayers are with you and your family. I'm so, so incredibly sorry. Well, that puts this hour of the show in the books. Thanks to everyone in the booth, all the guys and Kelly. Jade, thanks for a great show. You too, Rachel. Love hosting with you. Thank you, America, for listening. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you.

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