You Should Be Furious at Your Debt!
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us.

We're glad you're here. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, host of the Ken Coleman Show on the Ramsey Network. He's going to help us talk about work and careers and making money while we walk on all sides of your life.

and he's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. John in Dallas starts this hour. Hey, John, what's up? Hey, how's it going? Hey, how can we help? Hey, so a negative in a car loan that I would like to get out of, the loan is about $50,000 right now, and the

Quotes I've been getting are somewhere around 43 to 44. And the quotes you got were from who? One was from Jeep. I think the other was from CarMax. Okay. All right. So what kind of car is it, Jeep? Yeah, it's a Jeep. Okay, cool. What is the exact payoff? Have you called and gotten that? Yeah, it's $50,460-something. Cool. All right.

Well, there are three numbers when you get ready to sell a car that you can look at.

What you were given was a wholesale number or trade-in value. So if Jeep or CarMax buys that car for $43,000, that tells me that they can sell that car for more than that, and that's why they're buying it. They're adding inventory to their lot, and obviously their goal is to make a profit when they sell a car off of their lot. So if they buy it for $43,000, they're going to put it on the market over there around $47,000 or $48,000, whatever, something like that. Does that make sense?

Yes. Second number is a private sale number, which is an individual selling to another individual. That would be the number you need. And you can get that at kellybluebookkbb.com or go to Edmund's Car Guide. Either one of them will help you get that number. Matter of fact, you ought to look at both of them and compare them and see what you think you should put it on the market for at trader.com or Craigslist or Facebook Marketplace or wherever it is you want to sell your car to another individual. Okay.

The third number is a retail number, which is what the Jeep dealership is going to put the car on the lot for because they are a retail establishment. You don't have that option because you don't have a car lot. It's not illegal for you to get that much money for it. It's just unlikely you're going to get that much money for it. So I think your car is probably worth $47,000. I might be wrong, but when you look it up, you're probably going to find it to be about something like that. Who do you owe the $50,000 to?

It's Chrysler Financial. The issue that I have seen, though, is right now it seems like the same Jeeps on the lot brand new are going for 46 or 47. You got something wrong because they would not have offered you 43 for it because your Jeep is used. Yeah, I got a warranty with it. I don't know if that –

That's great. You did a, it's horrible, but it's great news for this situation. So when you pay off the Jeep and sell it early, they will give you a partial refund for that upfront purchase on that warranty. That's probably worth a couple of grand, but listen to me carefully. Okay. The chance that Jeep, the Jeep dealer will pay 43 for a used Jeep that they have to sell for 43 is zero. Okay.

And if they're selling the exact same Jeep for 48, one of your numbers is wrong because it doesn't add up. I mean, if the actual exact same Jeep selling for 48, it would make sense a used one like yours is selling for less. Agreed?

Agreed.

Um, mid 600s. I filed for bankruptcy maybe like four years ago, right? When the pandemic started. Yeah. So your credit sucks. Okay. Yeah. Um, so what you've got to do is you have to find the difference. Let's pretend that you can sell the car for 47. Like I'm saying, then you need the $3,000 difference, $3,400 difference. You've got to come up with that money either in cash or you got to borrow it. That's why I was asking about your credit.

And if you go borrow $5,000, buy you a $2,000 car and write a check for the difference on this when someone else buys the car, then you're out of it and you're free. But that's what you're going to have to do because this thing's strangling you with an $850 payment. It's beating the snot out of you. And if you're like me, John, when I've done stuff like this, every time I write that check, I feel dumber.

Every time. Just the very act of doing it can. Yeah. And I would say there needs to be some intensity on this. Intensity on everything that Dave laid out, your three options. Intensity to sell something, go make some extra money, attack this thing so that when you sell it, whatever gap you have there, you're able to get a beater or something else and put this thing behind you. But this has got to be handled with intensity. It really does. If you're still sitting around paying an $850 payment six months from now because you haven't taken action,

Then you just keep hitting yourself. You're just beating the snot out of yourself every day. And so the faster you get out of this, the less damage it's going to do. Because let me tell you, 100% of the time, Jeeps go down in value. So the longer you hold it, the wider the gap is going to be.

Right now, the gap is the least it's ever going to be. That's exactly right. So Ken is smart. He's telling you the truth. You got to get out of this thing. You got to get fired up about this and go like, my hair is on fire. This matters. I got to do this. I got to get after it and borrow the difference, sell something, take six jobs, come up with the difference in cash, whatever it is. Because the quicker he gets out of this, the quicker he gets a $10,000 raise.

It's that simple. $815 a month, that's right about, you know, just shy of $10,000. That's a lot of money. Yeah. $833 a month is $10,000 a year. Yeah. You get a $10,000 raise. That would motivate me. Motivate me to never take out the payment in the first place. That's exactly right. There's that, right? So, guys, cars, all of us in America...

you know, as a culture, we are stupid about cars. It's the largest thing we buy that goes down in value. And so you take a $50,000 car and you drive it for three years, you know, you're going to lose 60 to 70% of that money. It's going down in value like a rock. That's where Chevy gets that like a rock. Okay.

And so, you know, they go down in value. And so there's nothing evil about having a nice car. What's bad is when your nice car has you and it has you when you bought a car you couldn't afford. It's going down in value. You've got too much tied up in a depreciating asset. And worse than that, you financed it worse than that. You fleeced it.

Oh, you're getting fleeced. That's a bad idea. Don't do that. That was my sheep impression to go with the fleece joke. Y'all got it? Okay. So yeah, really seriously. And I'm like you, I like a nice car. I drove a nice car today, but I can afford to take the losses as a percentage of my net worth percentage of my income. And, but most people, man, cars are killing you. They're killing you. This is the Ramsey show.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. This is the season for Halloween. It's October, we're wearing costumes and we're wearing masks. So if you haven't started planning your costume yet, get on it. And while you're thinking about it, I want you to be honest. A lot of us hide ourselves. We hide our true selves behind costumes and masks all the time. We do this at work, we do this around our friends, we do this around our families.

We even do this when we look at ourselves in the mirror. I know because I've been there multiple times in my life and it's the worst. If you feel like you're stuck hiding behind masks and costumes all the time, if you find yourself hiding from your true self, I want you to consider talking with a therapist. Therapy is a place where you can be honest, where you can talk to somebody else and reflect and learn and you can accept all the parts of yourself over time and start living an authentic life.

Masks and costumes should be for Halloween parties, not for our emotions and our true selves. And if you're considering therapy, try calling my friends at BetterHelp. BetterHelp is 100% online therapy. You can talk with your therapist anywhere so it's convenient for you and your schedule.

Just fill out a short online survey and you'll be matched with a licensed therapist. Plus, you can switch therapist at any time for no additional cost. Take off the costumes and take off the mask with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Deloney to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp.com slash Deloney. What would it be like to have no debt, a million dollars in your 401k? That'd be pretty cool.

You know, we've studied people that have done that, tens of thousands of them since we started doing this 30-something years ago. None of them accidentally did that. They didn't wake up and go, whoa, look what happened. They're not shocked. It was a series of steady habits and behaviors. Ken, we see habits and behaviors change everything in every area of our life, right?

And the habit and the behavior that causes people to be intentional with their money to hit the goal of some level of financial peace, a pile of money in your retirement and zero debt house and everything paid off that that happens only with a plan. You have to plan to do it. And then you have to incrementally. How do you eat an elephant? A bite at a time.

But you need a plan to eat the elephant. You need to do a little blueprint, a little diagram on the elephant and go, okay, I'm going to start right there. And then I'm going to go over there and then I'm going to go over there. And that's called a budget where you give every dollar of your money an assignment. Don't do a ready, fire, aim. Do ready, aim, fire.

Every dollar has given direction exactly what to do. And that's why we named the world's best budgeting app Every Dollar. Tens of millions of people are using it. You can get it for free, and it'll get you on your journey, baby. Go to the App Store, go to Google Play, download Every Dollar for free. So Ken helped me, and a few of the rest of our team helped me put together the questions that I would ask people

President Donald Trump, once we were given the opportunity to sit down with him, we reached out to Vice President Harris's camp, if you haven't heard, and to President Donald Trump's camp and offered to do a long-form interview for the Ramsey podcast, Ramsey Show YouTube channel. And we were able to go up there last week and do that. And we posted it yesterday, Wednesday, October the 2nd.

on our podcast channel and on our YouTube channel so that people can watch it. And, Ken, it broke all records around Ramsey anyway. And we've got some huge numbers around Ramsey, but these numbers are even bigger. Nine hours and 11 minutes after it was posted, the first million people had watched it.

The completion, meaning the people that turn it on and watch it all the way through, is almost 100%. No one's turning it off. They're watching the interview all the way through, which also tells me that our team did a great job putting that together. And some of those questions that you helped me formulate must have been stuff people wanted to know about. Yeah, imagine that. We got probably the most covered, the most –

unpredictable presidential election of our lifetime. It's been a crazy last three months. People are paying attention. We're just about 30 days out. I think it was timely because I think people wanted to know what you were going to ask. I think you've got, obviously, a very trusted audience. My question for you is, because people can watch it from a content standpoint, I'm just curious. You had a very full day. There was a massive press conference right there in the lobby of Trump Tower moments after you wrapped the interview. I'm just curious what

What was his state of mind? Was he present? Was he distracted? What was going on? I'm just curious what that was like in the moments before the conversation.

100% zoomed in. Really? Completely. Not distracted at all. Interesting. I don't think you can survive in the environment that a presidential candidate, either party, is in. Right. Because it's from one thing to the next to the next to the next to the next to the next to the next. I mean, you're all day long. You're flying from, you know, they flew in from North Carolina. They'd just been down there speaking. And then they had this and they had that. They had this. And they came in. They go, hey, we're actually running a little bit early. Can you start early? And we're like, yeah, let's go.

But if you can't concentrate in the moment in the middle of that kind of frenetic thing, I think the process would eat you alive and you would collapse. And your image, what you're trying to portray would collapse. If you're thinking about the next thing rather than the moment being present, I don't think you could do it. It'd be like doing this show and I'm thinking about something else. That's exactly right. You have to have a level of focus. The other question I think people would love to know is –

We have an image of somebody like him who's been covered probably more than any person in the history of media.

So his, you know, his ID rating around the world is 100, right? In those moments before the interview, moments after where only you and the people in the room saw that, how does he come across? What's the, what's personality like? Because we know him as rally Trump and, you know, when he's had to be presidential. Yeah. Well, and making fun of people on Twitter or whatever and all that and caustic bombastic. Yeah. That's what, that's kind of what you think of when you think of Donald Trump. Right. He's quite the opposite.

Really? Just completely chill. Just came in, sat down, goes, hey, can we move that light over? It's making my hair glow. And, um,

And we said, yes, Mr. President, we can move the light. Is there anything else you need, sir? So really focus on details. I mean, we do that with anybody, obviously. We're not going to treat anyone with respect that's sitting there. We're not going to, no, we can't move the light. Of course we can. But he's like, yeah, this thing, it gets kind of crazy, Dave. That's funny. That's funny. He was telling me a story. I was hearing it from Donald Jr. that

They were joking around the family, and some of the kids didn't think it was funny after he got a shot in the ear. And one of the kids, I won't say which one, looked at him and said, yeah, but how's the hair? Right. Is the hair okay? Yeah. Yeah. Ear's bad, hair's great. Right. It didn't hurt the hair. Yeah. And so they got a sense of humor. And so, yeah, it was really disarming how chill. Yeah.

You know, cause you kind of get amped up because you're going to meet, you got to meet the energy, right? Right. It'll be energy with energy and, and, uh, otherwise it's going to look weird and be weird. But it was just like, I wanted it to be down. I wanted to not have stump, you know, bombastic, crazy Trump. I wanted to meet the guy and I wanted our audience to meet the guy. And we 90%, we got that. The other thing I was going to ask you that I think is interesting, um,

is, again, we have this perception of him. He's got a business, obviously owns so many different types of businesses within his empire. What was the interaction like in the tower with the team? Because I think that, you know, if people come to Ramsey Solutions, you come to one of our live events, what they will experience is what you require, which is high touch,

high efficient service, the way we try to treat our fans. I've been around you a decade, been an employee, well, been around you for two decades, work with you and for you for a decade. You require that, and thus it's a system. We have created a way, a standard that you have required in how we treat people, and people comment on it all the time. I'm curious, being in his world for those moments, what's

What did you notice about the professionalism? Did you see any culture things? Because you really talk a lot about that with Entree Leadership.

You know, you and I, we teach a lot on leadership and we've got the Entree Leadership brand. We speak to these small business guys and we end up in discussions with teams about leadership and helping people run their business and leadership issues. And, you know, you can tell by the way the team is acting, you know, are they looking around like fear? You

You can see fear in their eyes or fear. Zero fear. Zero fear.

and they were cutting up, they were having a good time. They weren't sloppy. They were very professional. Sure. The excellence. And they were very complimentary of our team of how excellent our team was to interact with and how we, you know, trains run on time. We got stuff done. We're supposed to all that. So there was this mutual respect and, you know, we're just standing around for 20 minutes or 30 minutes talking and cut, you know, talking to secret service guys and the home, the Homeland security guys and the other secret service guys and the other secret service guys and the other secret service guy. And, uh,

But his social media team, you know, they're the ones that put this whole thing together because obviously this falls in that bucket. And they...

are really good at what they do and he just lets them do it yeah there's no fear yeah they're they're running their lane they're running their lane fully delegated fully delegated you get the feeling he actually knows exactly what they're doing but is not giving any instruction whatsoever interesting except about the lighting yeah there you go that's right well that involves the hair that's there it's a different standard there we go this is the ramsey show

I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible, are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly, and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills...

I'm going to eat next week. Yeah, in the middle of all that grief. Like it's just, it is, it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here.

You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com. Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Number one bestselling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose.

Abigail is with us in Minneapolis. Hi, Abigail. How are you? I'm doing good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up in your world? Not much. So I guess my question today is, I've been quite a bit of student loan debt, and I have a job that I love and a career path that I love.

I think I love. But the amount of debt that I'm in and the amount of money that I'm making, I just don't see how it's practical to do that. What are those two numbers? How much do you make and how much debt do you have? So I'm in about $160,000 debt. It's all student loan debt. I don't have any other debt. Mm-hmm.

I make currently $65,000 at my salary job as a judicial law clerk, and then I work another job as an event manager, and I probably bring in about $1,000 a month on that. Okay, a judicial law clerk. Yes. Is that what you said? Yes. Okay. And your degree is in what? Yes, so I have a BA, and then I have my law degree as well. Okay. So have you passed the bar?

Yes, I just took the February, or I mean the July bar. So why would you not be a lawyer instead of a clerk? Just in case I didn't pass, I got this job that I am kind of stuck in for like about a year. Yeah, but I mean, now that you've passed the bar, you double your income as a lawyer, right?

Yes, if I wanted to go in private, but I feel like my heart and my prayers have been leading me more into the public sector and working for the government. Yeah, you're $160,000 in debt. You don't take a government job. I'll help you with that.

I'll let Ken, the expert, tell you the same thing. Wait a minute. Yeah, yeah. I wonder what I'm going to say here. Well, Abigail, I love what you're saying, but I would agree with Dave that temporarily we pivot to the private sector, juice that income, knock the debt out. You can always return back to working for the government and that type of specific work that you want to do. It's not going away. What is the appeal here?

Of the government deal. Yeah. I just feel like there's a lot of need. There's a lot of what? Need in the criminal justice system. A lot of need. Okay. And why can someone in the private world not supply someone's needs? Why is it the government the place you go to get your needs supplied? I guess morally...

I want to work in the criminal justice system because I feel like there's a lot of issues there, but I don't think I could be a private defense attorney. Right. So, yeah, you're talking about the prosecutorial. That's all the government. So that's the answer to Dave's question. If you want to put the bad guys away, in your mind, I want to be on this side of it. I don't want to go to the private sector. Yeah. Yeah.

So again, I don't have a problem with that, but the reality is you're not stuck. But you did say something that's interesting. Why are you, are you under some kind of contract? Because you said to Dave a moment ago that I'm stuck in this for a year. What does that mean? Yeah, so when I started the job, it's about a one-year commitment that you do as a law clerk.

And so you have no way around that. We've got ourselves on paper. We've got to follow that to the nth degree on that, correct? Mm-hmm. Yeah, but I have probably like half a year left. Okay. Did you not think you were going to pass the bar? Well, I just wanted to make sure I had a job just in case I didn't. Yeah, but I mean, you signed a contract to stay knowing that you were going to go take the bar. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, that is what it is right now. So as an event planner, you've caught them up with an additional $12,000. But right now, you're going to have to slash everything that you can slash to

And make as much extra income as you can. That's how you get out of this right now until the six months is up. But I'd begin this process today, as soon as you hang up with us, mapping out what the path is to the private sector for the sole purpose of making as much dough as we possibly can to knock this out. Because at that income, you can knock that out and get that out of your life. Yeah. Yeah.

So then I guess in the interim, while I'm still paying on my loans, right now I pay probably about $200 over what is the minimum on them just because I'm trying to pay them off. Should I keep doing that or should I wait? Pay whatever you can pay right now. The more you pay, the less you'll owe. And as fast as you can, let's move into a higher paying system.

Okay, here's what I'm troubled about, and I'm not positive I'm hearing this, but I'm going to throw it out there because I want to make sure I address it because I don't feel like I've been kind to you unless I do. Sometimes I run into folks who feel like, not in your world, not in the law world, but just in general, that, okay, I can...

I can do this thing that I do, this skill that I have. And if I work for a nonprofit ministry doing my thing, making 70% of what the marketplace pays for my thing,

then I'm doing holy work. I'm doing good work. I'm doing God's work. I'm helping people work. But if I go into the private sector, by definition, it's greedy capitalism and I'm a horrible person and that the only people over there are horrible people. And I kind of think I'm hearing a little bit of that out of you. Like the holy work is at the prosecutorial level and no one in the private sector is as holy. And I just don't believe that.

I don't think that's true. I just have prayed a lot about what I want to use my career as and where I feel like I can help. Yeah, and what you're discovering is that what Jesus said was true. The borrower is slave to the lender, $160,000 worth of debt, and it's really hard to serve two masters.

The master of the answer in your prayer life is to serve a certain way, but it's a way in which you can't pay your bills, and you're stuck mathematically because you have two masters. You have a student loan master, and you have God tapping you on the shoulder in your prayer life telling you to do this other thing. And so it's very hard to serve two masters. And so I...

I want to propose a third option for everyone out there, and that is that you do not have to work for less money to be holy, that you can serve with excellence in the marketplace, kindness, compassion, do good work, and help hurting people from a private sector position, anything you're doing. And that's as much a ministry as a nonprofit, because nonprofits are not in the Bible, right?

Nonprofit is a designation by the IRS, not by God. And all nonprofits are profitable. If they're not, they go out of business. They close down. They take in more than they pay out. They're profitable. It's an accounting entry that allows them to stay under the IRS as a nonprofit. It is not a holiness issue.

And so you can enter the private sector, folks, and do holy, godly work and be at the top of your game income-wise. I agree. I would say in this situation, I don't think she was necessarily going that route as much as in the private sector, you're limited in the type of work you're going to do that's going to put the bad guys in jail. So I would equate her situation to someone who really wants to teach, if

If you've got a master's degree and you want to teach, I would use that master's degree to go get a six-figure job, get rid of the debt, get your life in a situation where you live below your means like the teachers we have in our millionaire study, third largest group of net worth millionaires. I agree with you too, though, Dave, that right now she needs to be going after the debt. But I do think that if you get your life in order— My point is you don't have to sell your soul to do that. I agree with you.

But I also say, if she wants to put bad guys away, you see that as honorable, right? I do, but she said there was a need in the market. The need is putting bad guys away? Well, I can't speak to what, you know. I want to help. I want to help people. I guess you're going to help the victim by putting the bad guy in jail. Yeah. I'll go with that. Law enforcement. I think there's a need there. I love law and order. I like the idea. Yeah, it's interesting. But I agree with you that now she needs more money. Yeah.

And I just, I don't want, I'm not sure if she's there, but I know a certain portion of our audience. I agree. Struggles with the idea that they equate being broke with holy.

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That's Fairwinds, F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Ken, I spent a little time with my friend Ben Shapiro the other day, and we were talking about

our mutual friend, Rabbi Daniel Lappin. And Rabbi talks about the Hebrew word in the Jewish, obviously, in the Jewish tradition, Jewish language, Rabbi's teachings for work is virtually the same word as the word we use for worship. And those of us that have a New Testament, those guys play only in what I call the Old Testament. They call it the Bible, the Talmud.

and great friends of ours, by the way. We have great discussions. And that word work and worship are the same word. So in their mindset, to do your work well with excellence and service of others is an act of worship. And that's what I was trying to say before that break, is I think that a plumber that loves God

and does excellent work at a fair price, treats people with kindness, shows up on time, cleans up his mess, does the work, and people that he's doing his work, what we would call in the New Testament, as unto the Lord in 2 Corinthians, right?

Or if we're going to have Trump, we can say two Corinthians, right? But second Corinthians, right? And that'll come back to haunt me right there. But I'll hear about that by nightfall. But anyway, yeah, do your work as unto the Lord. Your work matters. It matters. And you talk about this all the time. And so functioning in your gifts as an act of worship is

does not require that you do it from a government position or a nonprofit position. That's right. It just means you have to do it. It's a matter of the attitude and the altitude of the heart, not the actual location of the paycheck. That's exactly right. It's not holier depending on who is writing, who's signing your check, rather. It's the actual work, the actual result itself. And to that end, you don't have to just choose, right?

one lane to do the work in. And I think it's really important that people see that, that there's missional results in multiple lanes of work. And when you can figure that out, you go, wait a second, if I can use my talent over here, it's just as worthy, to your point, as it is over here. It's all work that is honorable creates a good result. Talk about honorable work. Now there's parts of any profession you can do

that you could question the honor of it. No question. Not only from your intention, but also the type of people. You know, you don't want to be a guy getting people who are,

criminals that really did do the thing. I wouldn't want to spend my life getting them off. I don't think that's holy work in her, in her situation. So, um, you know, do all defense attorneys do that? No, they don't. There are defense attorneys that function with, uh, with integrity before God. And,

And so, but, and there are some that are scummy, you know, but that's just about true of accountants. It's about true of people that own gas stations. It's true of people on a hotel. I mean, you can find either, you can find the good and the bad people in almost any profession. Yeah, there's no question about it. And it's all about what are you, what result are you creating and why are you creating it? And, you know, you could have someone who's selling faulty goods, right?

Yeah. That's wrong. Yep. That is evil. A dishonest scale. That's exactly right. So the act of selling something's not wrong, but if you're selling a faulty product intentionally, now all of a sudden it's dishonorable. Yeah, exactly. Philip is with us. Philip is in Pittsburgh. Hi, Philip. How are you? Good, Dave. How are you? Better than we deserve. What's up?

Um, so if you excuse me, I'm kind of nervous, but, um, so my question is, is should I buy a business or grow what I have now organically? And feel free to ask questions to dig. What business are you in? So it's a tax preparation and consulting business. Cool. And you have the opportunity to buy someone's practice. Yeah, I do. Okay. Um, do you have the cash to buy it?

Excuse me. So no, it would be a seller finance deal. Okay. Well, it's all about a mathematical thing, and then we've got to structure the financing where I'm not about to throw up about it. So I'll help you with that too. But the question is, what are you talking about paying for it? So we talked about 225 right now, and the yearly billings are about $1,000.

between 175 and 180. Okay, so on $150,000, what's your net profit? $150,000, so what she had, it's probably around like 75. So 50 cents, you got a 50% margin on this. Yeah. Because it's largely service-based, it's got to do with your hours, right? Do you have the capacity to take that on?

I do. I do. What are you generating in your business? What's your revenues picture? So right now, organically, I started at the beginning of the year. It's about 30 so far. And that's like a side hustle as well. I work full time as well. Yeah. What's your day job? Basically the same thing. I do tax planning and consulting. I don't do preparation as much, but I do that all the time. How much do you make? What do you make in your day job? 90. 90.

And how much of the 30 on this side accounting hustle are you keeping? What's your profit margin on that 30? So on that, I actually have only taken maybe like $5,000. I put a lot of it back into it to grow it. How much you got in savings of the side hustle? On the side hustle, like $5,000.

What are you thinking is the benefit? You called us. I'm curious, before you got on the phone with us, what were you thinking the benefit would be of buying this other agency? I think the benefit for me would have been just to be able to work for myself. So my whole family is entrepreneurs, and I have always wanted to do this. And the lady who approached me is older, and I just wanted to work for myself. Does that make sense? Yeah, of course. Yeah.

and i feel like i've always like i said i've always wanted to do it and um this is kind of falling in my lap my line of questioning is trying to get you to reconcile what the true benefit is because i'm i'm pretty proud of the fact that you've launched something on the side in the same you've got a good day job and a good salary and you've managed to put money back into the side hustle you got a little bit saved and retain earnings is what we call it in entre leadership so

I'm sitting there going, if I'm you, I'd probably go the more patient route because I don't see a huge windfall to even take on this financing. I don't think it's enough of a benefit to take on the debt. It doesn't make sense to me. Yeah, and that's actually the line of thinking I came across like a week ago. Like we were supposed to move slow with this, and then that's kind of what I thought like a week ago, and that's kind of why I'm calling as well. I wouldn't do it. Yeah. Here's the thing.

We need to separate. You don't want to buy a job. Yeah. You want to buy a business. That's good. And so if I were going to buy this business, I'm not going to do the tax prep. I'm going to hire someone to do the tax prep. Now, if I buy the business and I can generate 150 out, if I keep enough of her clients from 200, I can keep three quarters of them. That'd be pretty good keep. I got 150. I'm going to have a

gross profit of 75 on that, and then I've got to pay someone to do that work, and I'm probably going to have to pay them 50 grand to do that work. Agreed? Yeah. And that means that as a business owner, I'm making $25,000 net profit on a purchase of 225. Not a chance it's worth that. Yeah.

Yeah, and part of the reason why I had paused was her billings are very low on a per return basis. So if I would increase them, I don't know how many of them would actually stay. Yeah, you're going to lose people just because it's not her, and then you're going to lose more if you raise prices. Super quick idea, Dave. I would pitch her on a finder's fee.

If she lets him take care of her customers, they got to go somewhere. Yeah. And I'll share revenue with you for a period of 12 months or something. But it's not worth two and a quarter, dude. That's overpriced. It's probably worth a hundred. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, host of the Ken Coleman Show, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Daniel is in Houston. Hi, Daniel. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can I help? I have a question about budget. I want to know if my wife and I are going to overkill. So my wife and I, we recently moved in together. We're relatively recent college graduates. Household income is about $200,000, take-home is about $145,000. That's post-401K, life insurance, health insurance, and HSA deductions. We have a six-month emergency fund. We have zero debt.

And now the goal is for her to become a stay-at-home mother one day. But up until that day, the discussed goal was to invest my income and live off hers. In other words, of that $145,000 that is take-home, $85,000 is mine, and $60,000 is hers. So invest 60% of her take-home income. Is that over, Carol? Your home is paid for? We do not have a home. We moved into an apartment together. Okay. And you're married? Yes, sir. Okay.

Um, you said that, but I was just double checking the way, because usually it's kind of like automatic. You moved again together once you're married. So I just making sure I got this right. Okay. Um, the, um, okay. So, so the way I would look at this, the way I look at things is based on the data that I have of the studies that we've done and the people that we have worked with over the last 30 years that have built wealth. What did they do? Um,

and what is different about what they did and what you're talking about doing and that's how I'm going to answer the question okay so in other words as we studied 10,000 millionaires how many of them did what you did lived in an apartment did not buy a house watch their rent go up every single year which you can 100% count on rent going up your entire life as long as you rent every year

until you buy a house and then it doesn't go up anymore. So the house goes up, but the rent doesn't go up. Very, very few people that we have studied or that we know of and have tracked with that became wealthy used that plan. Instead, what they have done is they bought and then paid off a home by investing a little less and using the difference to save towards buying that home because the largest line item

in the math in your budget every month is the largest item is cost of housing. And when the largest line item is rent and it goes up every single year, your largest item is out of your control.

And it's going up every year. When you fix it by buying and then you pay that house off, what we find is that we find 15 years from today, 14, 12 years from today for you, you have a net worth of a million and a half, five or 600 of that is a paid off house. And six or 700 of that is in your 401ks and your Roth IRAs.

And so I'm going to lead you that direction rather than this intense saving. Obviously, let me tell you what you are doing very, very well. You're actually paying attention. You're planning. You're thinking. You're scheming about how we can win this money thing. Most people just ride through life with their head stuck up their assumptions, and they don't know what's going on.

And then they wake up broke. You're quite the opposite. You're on the very other end. You're very, very intense. You're on fire. And so we've just got to point you in a way that's going to be the most efficient for you to actually hit your end goal, which is a good stable life with a pile of wealth, right? That's our end goal.

Yes, sir. Yeah. So, no, I would not do what you're doing. I would save, I would start saving a maximum of 15% of my household income into retirement, and I would stop the HSA program,

I would build an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses, and then I'd see how fast I can build up a fat, juicy down payment. And I'd buy a house in Texas, which is a wonderful market to own a piece of real estate in. And I'd watch that house just go zoom, zoom over the next 15 years. I mean, look back and think about the neighborhood that you might buy in and what you could have bought that house for 15 years ago. That just kind of makes you a little smiley.

Wow. 15 years ago, I could have bought this house for, oh, that's what it's going to be 15 years from now. And so, yeah, that's what you want to do. Yeah. And I would just encourage you, Daniel, there's zero, zero chance that the guy we're talking to right now is going to not be able to live below your means. You're going to win. So when she becomes a stay-at-home mama, I promise you this, Dave will tell you, I'm right. You're going to win. She's going to want a house.

So Dave's advice is absolutely right. When babies, she don't want to stay in an apartment. So let's go ahead and just remove the fear factor of, will I have enough? You're going to, you know, that's a really right now as to get that house payment ready. Those are two good observations. And I didn't, you really keyed in on something there. Cause I forget cause I've gotten old and it's, I've been doing this so long, but guys, especially young dudes that are just got married, uh,

Guys can live under a bridge. 100%. Yeah. You know, if we were married, we would not be inside. Right. I mean, it's like, and ladies, you know, they come along and they go, no, no, it's warm in here. It's cool in here. We can control the atmosphere inside a property, you know, and look, we can cook in here and, you know, we've got storage for our stuff. And yeah, it's like the domestication of the male beast. Yeah.

But, yeah. But you're right. It's – he really – they just got married and moved in together. Right. And, you know, so he can live anywhere. Sure. And, yeah, you're right. Even if she's going along with it right now because she's in love. Yeah. But she's going to wake up and go – Oh, yeah. I don't love this apartment. No. That's what's going to happen. You're exactly right. And she will be right, by the way. Wonderful.

that 100 right so we're trying to help you out on this one and the way you're living my friend daniel you're going to be able to do what dave says you're going to have a fat down payment i think i think daniel i really if i could get uh two drops of your blood and you know insert inserted in some of these people that are sitting on their butts right you're way on your way you're going to be great oh yeah you're not going to be a broke guy because you're actually paying attention you're willing to do stuff you're willing to go extreme

And you're going to win. You're going to win. He's going to call in several years from now in a millionaire themed hour. Oh, yeah. Definitely. Baby Steps Millionaire. Baby Steps Millionaire. He's that guy. Hang on, Daniel. I'm going to send you a copy of the book, The Baby Steps Millionaires. It's got the white paper of the study, the piece of research that I'm talking about in the back. And you will enjoy reading about these millionaires. And you'll see these correlating behaviors that they have with what I'm talking about in the data. Yeah.

And then you'll go, okay, I can adjust to that. It'll be real helpful to you. You'll really enjoy this book. It's a bestseller, and I'll send it to you as my gift. My wedding gift, since you got married and moved in together. This is The Ramsey Show. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts, and you'll get ten different answers. Economic growth or a recession? Business taxes will go up or...

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dot com slash Ramsey might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Derek in South Carolina. I recently got promoted to private client banker for a national banking chain. This will probably be as high up the ladder as I can climb without being a financial advisor, branch manager, or business banking specialist.

My position is a sales role where I bring home about $100,000 a year. I really love the finance world, but the more I listen to your show, it's getting harder for me to push loans, credit cards, and various investment products that I don't believe in like I once did.

I don't want to hit the restart button because I love the finance world. I have my SIE and my Series 6 licenses through my employer, and they will pay for my education if I do not want to go to college. Excuse me, if I do want to go to college for a degree. What field in finance would you suggest I pursue? I love the idea of financial planning, but I don't want to push products or make the same amount of money that I'm making now.

Well, again, I just, when I read this, I go, good for you. You're not a bad person. So I understand. I love the values that are coming across in this question, but you're not a bad person. So take the guilt jacket off for the moment and go, all right, I do have clear values that are going to guide me. And you can absolutely help people, um,

win in their finances without pitching products that you disagree with. And I think of, you know, investment professionals and things like that that have such a huge role in the people's lives that we've been coaching for years. And I think that's a great field. If you want to stay in finance, then get in that space and help people with their long-term investments and just refuse to, you know, get involved with a firm or the kind of products that you're worried about. But I don't think you have to switch gears at all. But Dave, I'm curious, you know,

this is more your world and you have a greater understanding of that what's your take on this question oh your your answer is exactly right i mean just the smart vestor pros that we have that are

There are people in the Ramsey Trusted Network that we send our listener to. They have the heart of a teacher. They're not pushing any products that are bad products. They're simply helping somebody get their Roth IRA started or get their kid's college fund started or roll over their 401K. And they teach you what you should do. And then once you understand and decide that that's what you want to do, then they help you do it. They actually make the transaction for you.

And that's what a good smart investor pro does. And, and those guys, you know, and gals that, uh, after a period of time in the business that develop a book of business, a group of clients, they make a lot more than a hundred K and they should. Um, and I'm fine with that. And, but you don't have to be a, um, you don't have to lose your integrity to be in the financial world. There are plenty of ways to do it. Right.

Um, but I think there's more ways to do it wrong, which is what you're observing. That's exactly right. And, um, so you just have to get with someone where you say, gosh, if I don't, if I don't feel right about that, I'm not going to do it. And they go, Oh no, you have to do it. Well, that's not where you want to be. Right. Exactly. Right. So yeah, I would, I would just,

What I might do is just click on some of the smart investors on our website, see if you can get to sit down and talk to one of them about joining their firm or if not, at least tell them. Maybe one of them will let you buy them a cup of coffee and they'll tell you how the business works. That's my great advice is just to sit there with somebody and go, hey, I want to get in this space. Give me the good, the bad, the ugly. What do I need to do? Is there an opportunity for you? And I think his litmus test on this is,

I need to be in the world of finance where I'm helping people achieve freedom, not in the area of finance where I'm saddling people with debt. And I think that's the simple litmus test for him. And it comes from a good place. Yeah, it's great. But I mean, you're not going to be working for a bank. That's correct. 100% of the time, a bank employee is going to be forced to sell debt products. It's where banks make their money. It's what they do. And, you know,

You know, there's no, I mean, it's like asking a dog if it's hungry. You know, of course it's hungry. Of course a banker sells debt. It's what they do. Of course they think home equity loans and credit cards and car loans and lines of credit and da-da-da-da-da-da are that they think, oh, that's the cat's meow. And obviously you've come to the conclusion that we have that that's not a good plan. Kelsey's with us in Portland, Oregon. Hi, Kelsey. How are you?

Hi, Dave. It's so great to be on your show. Thanks so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up? All right. So my question for you today is, is it okay for us to spend 28% of our take-home pay on our mortgage payment?

It's okay to do whatever you want to do. You're an adult. I mean, it's not like you're breaking a law or something. We teach, apparently you realize, to keep your house payment around 25%, but 28% is kind of like 25%. It's not the end of the world. The reason we teach that is that people go out and take 50% of their take-home pay, and then they call me up broke. Right. And they're house poor. Mm-hmm.

you know, 3%, you know, you know, that's like saying, okay, I'm not going to do Dave's 25%. I'm going to do 22% because that's going to guarantee I'm a millionaire in a year. No, it's only 3%. It doesn't do it. And 3% is not going to, the other way is not going to, not going to condemn you to death and, and, and hell and flames. Okay. None of the 3% is not that big a deal. As long as you get the concept. Now, is this a 15 year?

No, it's not. Not in Portland, Oregon. Not going to be able to get a car. Honey, they have 15-year mortgages in Portland, Oregon, all over the place. They do. That's true. They don't own the house you want to buy. Yeah, exactly. So, no, I would not do that. Yeah. Absolutely not going into debt for 30 years and using Portland, Oregon as my excuse. That's bull crap. No. No, you're going to be in debt your whole life, girl, and that's not what we're signing you up for here. We want you to be wealthy. Yeah.

Yeah, I don't want to be in debt my whole life either. Oh, you're signing up for it. It's just struggling with a three-year-old and a one-year-old and the house we're living in now. Don't blame your children for your wants. Yeah, that's true. That's true. You want a house. You got house fever. Take a cold shower. A bigger place to live. Yeah. You want a nicer house than 98% of the world's population lives in. It's true. Yeah. It's okay. I want you to get a house. I don't want your house to get you.

Yeah. That's all it is. Oh, by the way, let me ask you this. When you say take-home pay, what all's coming out of that check? What all's coming out of that check? So, well, that's just after taxes. Okay, that's all I wanted. All right. So it's not like you took a bunch of other stuff out that we could add back to help you with this formula. But, listen, you can do whatever you want, like we started the call with. You're like a grown adult and stuff. You're allowed to. It's not against the law. But I'm going to challenge your...

your decision-making paradigm or framework that you're using, that you can't do this in Portland, Oregon, and that it's for the children. Neither one of those are true statements. This is a house you want, and you're not an evil person for wanting a nice house. That's not the point either. But we have to push the child that lives inside of us out of the cereal aisle and say, no, we can't live on Lucky Charms. We have to live on meat and taters.

That's the way it works, you know. And so that's what we've all got to do. And that's hard, Kelsey. It's hard for me. It's hard for everybody else. I do want you to get a house, but I do not want your house to slow down your family's progress to cause instability rather than stability because you stretch and stretch and stretch and justify and rationalize.

Yeah. And just to encourage you, Kelsey, I think everybody listening understands this desire to have a little bit bigger space. But the one in the three year old, I think is what you said. You just got to remind yourself sometimes. Dave's right. You got house fever. We've all been through that before. These kids don't need more space.

The average American family has way more space and way more stuff in that space than they actually need. And so this is about the long-term play. Where do you want to be 20, 30 years from now? And what decisions that you're making right now are going to hamper or hold that vision back? And this is one of them when you got too much house. This is the Ramsey show.

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Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Thanks for joining us, America. We're so glad you are here. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Kevin and Kelly are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Good. How are you? Better than we deserve. Where do you guys live? Grapeville, Mississippi, just a little north of Tupelo. Yeah? Well, welcome up to Nashville. Good to have you. And how much debt have you two paid off?

$116,000. All right. And how long did that take, sir? A year and 10 months. Wow. Look at you. Great job. And your range of income during that almost two years? We started out around $82,000 and ended at $107,000. Cool. What do y'all do for a living? I'm a certified nurse's assistant. And I'm a land surveyor, do construction layout. Through this process, I actually got my surveying license during the

pay an off process. Ah, that helped the old income. Yes, it did. Good for you. Great career, both of them. Excellent job. What kind of debt was the $116,000? It was the house. You paid off your house? Looking at weirdos. You guys are weird.

You have a paid-for house. How old are you two weirdos? I'm 35. And I'm 37. And you have a paid-for house. Way to go, guys. Oh, we're seeing a picture of it pop up on YouTube here. Nice place. What's that place worth? Around $290 now. Excellent. Way to go, you guys. That's awesome. Thank you. Look at those smiles. Oh, yeah. I love it, man. My house is paid for. Whoop, whoop, whoop, whoop. Yeah.

Two houses worth 300 grand. How much is in your nest egg, your retirement savings? Oh, around 40 in mine and probably about the same in hers, I would say. Okay, so you're approaching the first half million on your way to being a millionaire by the time you're 40, probably. Way to go, guys. Thank you. Proud of you. Very cool. So what in the world caused all this? What happened? How'd you get connected to this Ramsey stuff?

Well, we've got some friends that live in North Carolina, Jim and Julie Sly. And she texted me on my 33rd birthday, and we just got to talking about kids. She had kids that were in college age. And she said, let me give you some advice on you need to be saving for college right now. And I told Kelly, I said, how can we save while we're this much deep in house debt? So we got to researching it, come across you. I kind of got on board with it.

And then she got on board with it. And then I couldn't get off board. Yeah, too late, right? Too late. Like, I was going to do most of it. But the credit card deal, I didn't have issues with credit cards, so I thought. Yeah, I said, if we're going to do it, we need to do it right. So we got debit cards. We cut up our credit cards, got debit cards. And you would be surprised. And you're still alive. Yes. It makes a big difference when that money goes the minute you spend it. Yeah.

Yeah, you do spend it differently, don't you? You do. Yeah. Way to go, you guys. So proud of you. How does it feel to not have a payment in the world? We still don't really know. Yeah, it's unbelievable. Kevin, I'm curious for the broader audience, how much did it cost you and how much time did it take you

to level up during this debt-free journey, if that's when you did it. And then that gave you some additional income. Give us the data on that. As far as like the... Yeah, how long did it take you? To get your license. How much did it cost you to get that additional income? Oh, it's a three-part test, and you have to pass each part before you get to the next, obviously. And so I started applying probably before December of 23, I guess it was. And I passed in October of...

Well, it would have been December of 22 past in October of 23. So that long of a process to get through all three tests and get my income up. How much did it cost to actually do that? The cost of it probably no more than a thousand to 1500 with test applications and the test fees. Yeah. That's interesting. Cool. And it bumped your income a lot more than that. It did. Yes. It was something I've been putting off for years and should have just went and done it. And

When she gave me that wake-up call, it really just kind of boosted our enthusiasm to do something. It's like I woke up when I turned 33 is what I tell people. And when Kelly cut up your credit card, you had to go to work, buddy. That's right. Yeah, definitely. I love it. Way to go, you two. Who was cheering you on? Who was your good cheerleaders? Probably his parents most. Yeah, my parents helped out a lot with...

discount daycare is what I call it. And then my boss, Andy, he was a big proponent. He was pushing your plan. And he told me, he said, just do it. Just stick with it and do it. And really, I've got so many people in our church that I can't even begin to name. One of my cousins, Jason, he's a great influence in my life and still he is.

And, I mean, just so many, I can't even name all of them. You want to try to? Anybody tell you you were crazy? Oh, yeah. Oh, you had those two? Oh, yeah. So you had both sides of the equation, right? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Yeah, okay. That's all right. That's good. If broke people are making fun of your financial plan, you're right on track, man. I like it. Good for you guys. Well done. Well done. All right, now you're the other side of it. You got a paid for $300,000 house. Mm-hmm.

What do you tell people the key to doing that is? What's the key to getting out of debt? You've got to stick together and stick with the budget and live by your means. Yeah, you really got to just get to the point where you don't care what people think of you. Yeah, there it is. There was something else I was going to bring out through this process. We started really getting serious, cut up the credit cards around October of 22, is that right? And by December of 22...

She started eating right, exercising. I wasn't into that. So she told me, she said, you've got to start doing better because you're making it hard on me.

So that got me in gear. And through this whole process, I shed off 65 pounds. Wow. Yeah, I've lost about 70. And you lost 70? Yes. Wow. Good. I mean, between the two of you, you lost a backstreet boy. Wow. I lost 26% of my body weight. Goodness. Yes.

You know, discipline begets discipline. It does. When I find out I can control something, then I find out I can control something else that has to do with the mirror, you know? Way to go, you two. Dave, you've told people for a long time, rice and beans, beans and rice, but you guys went a different direction. We're like, we want to get healthy and debt-free. That's extraordinary. When you look at it as though...

you have bitten off more than you can chew yeah financially and physically it applies both ways you have to give it i like what you did there that that'll preach right there i saw that i saw that move that was a good move nice dance move yeah mad respect on that that was well done uh excellent you two wow that's amazing and in both cases you'll never go back

I sure hope not. Physically or financially. No. Sir. Fiscally or physically. Either way. Yeah, that's right. Way to go, y'all. That's so impressive. Yeah, really impressive. Very neat. Very neat. So you tell people the key to getting out of debt is what again?

Consistency. Consistency, yeah. And both of us being on the same page because I would have bailed ship a long time before the end if she hadn't bailed ship. Well, like you said, you got her started and then she wouldn't let you quit. Yeah. That's it. I got that. That was good. Very good job, you guys. And you got how many kiddos? Got three. Three. Are they all with you or just this one? They are all three. Oh, okay. Let's get them up here and let's get their names and ages, please. This is Cason. He is three. Mm-hmm.

And Kaylee, she's two. And Kyla is seven. All right. I got to tell you what, you changed their family tree. They don't know it yet because they're too young that their mom and dad just completely changed everything for them. Not only health-wise, but financial health as well.

Way to go. All right, Kevin and Kelly, Tupelo, Mississippi area, 116,000 paid off house and everything, 140 pounds lost. Did all this in one year and 10 months, making 82 to 107. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free. Oh, my goodness. That's amazing, Ken.

Really extraordinary, the parallels between getting their financial life and their physical life under control. Really amazing. Same problem, guy in my mirror. Same solution, guy in my mirror. This is The Ramsey Show. ♪♪♪

Folks, changing your family tree takes more than rice and beans and side hustles. It's also about transferring the big financial risks off your family by having the right kinds of coverage in place. That's why my team created the Coverage Act.

checkup quiz. It only takes about five minutes to find out what types of insurance you need and don't need to protect your finances. Make this quiz one of your regular checkups starting right now at ramseysolutions.com slash checkup. That's ramseysolutions.com slash checkup. Music

Guys, time is running out to book your cabin on our Live Like No One Else cruise, setting sail March 22nd through the 29th. More than 95% of the cabins are full. There's just a handful left. We can still get you on, though. This isn't your average cruise. It's a premium Caribbean cruise with destinations like Turks and Caicos.

Puerto Rico, St. Thomas, and the Bahamas. Holland America's incredible ship. I'll be there the entire week, Sharon, my wife. All of the Ramsey personalities will be with us the whole week. Of course, we've got the pools, the hot tubs. Ken's going to be holding court literally at the Picket Ball Courts.

We got the Greenhouse Spa and Salon. We'll all be doing events and talks on the ship, along with our wonderful stops that we're doing and our wonderful guests that we're having, like Stephen Curtis Chapman, comedian Trey Kennedy, Dina Carter, world-class chef Manit Chauhan, and more. RamseySolutions.com slash cruise. That's how you do it.

Folks, this is the last segment of the show that will be on the podcast and YouTube. If you want the next segment of the show, jump over to the Ramsey Network app. It is free. It's also where you'll find the Donald Trump interview one day early. Lots of stuff happens on the network app that make it worth signing up for. It's completely free. Download Ramsey Network app from Google Play or from the Apple Store.

And you can click on the show notes, watch the rest of the show of the app. Everything's there. It's good for you. Abby's in Boston. Hi, Abby. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I'm wondering if it would be worthwhile to pursue a paid leave of absence from my job or just to walk away altogether. Okay.

Okay, give us your current pros and cons for walking away altogether. Cons, it's an hour commute, and my father is sick, but that's another con, being far away if something were to happen with him. So the reason you want to do this is you want to be able to go be near him. Yes.

In either case. Okay. But if you walk away, okay, go ahead. What are the pros to walking away and we're walking away from that income? I don't always get along with one of my bosses. Neither does Ken. He's sitting here. That's awesome. Yeah, it's not a good reason.

So, so what are you walking to? I understand the, your father, and that's a, that's a legit personal reason to try to figure out if I should make a change in my life with the, with the job being an hour away, et cetera, et cetera. But what are you walking to if you were to walk away? And I'm talking about income. You have another job lined up or some prospects ideas. Yeah.

I don't have a job lined up. However, I know I could get another position in the industry. Listen, I love your confidence, but I'm not going to walk away from a full-time income, especially when I need it, and I presume that you need it. You can't have an interruption in pay. I'm not going to leave one place to be closer to my dad and all these changes you need to make without having something already lined up. Why don't you just go get the other job? Yeah.

I'm afraid that if I were to start a new job, it would start off on a bad foot already because I'm going to have to take time off, not just because of my father, but because I was diagnosed with something as well. Okay, this is new information. So you have some health concerns. Yeah, it's a new occurrence. Okay. And you know for a fact your current company is offering you the paid leave option to try to get healthy?

No, no, they're not. Okay. Well then, but you presented that as a, should I take paid leave or should I walk away completely? But paid leave is not an option.

I'm under the impression that it's not up to the employer. It would be up to the state. Okay. But we have some, okay, that's fair. You got me there, but I'm saying we have certainty. I don't feel that we have certainty right now. Phil, you're like, I'm under the impression that the state would give me. I need some certainty on that before I would take that option. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I think, I think you're confused. I don't think the state of Massachusetts requires an employer to give you paid leave. Yeah, that's,

The federal government has, we're required to give you time off unpaid and hold the position for you. That's a federal law for a family situation or for a health situation. Family Leave Act. The Family Leave Act is a federal law, but it doesn't require paid. Yes, I understand. And I don't think Massachusetts requires paid. Okay. Massachusetts is a...

That's a made-up location. I didn't want it to be my real location. I don't think any state requires paid leave. Oh, even if you were to apply and you were qualified? Apply with who? Do you work for the state? No. No, I don't. Okay. So just for example, my father...

He has cancer. Right. And we applied for temporary disability insurance through the state that we live in. Right. That's not paid leave. That's disability insurance. Oh, okay. Okay. And if you don't get disability insurance for him, unless you can prove you are disabled, then you might get some disability insurance. Are you disabled?

No, I understand. Yeah, no, it's kind of two separate things. My diagnosis came after my father's situation. And when my father got diagnosed, I took a lot of time off of work. And then my situation came up after. So it just kind of piled on. Yeah, I got you. So I'm just wondering. Is your diagnosis going to cause you to be declared disabled?

Um, maybe, I don't know. It's breast cancer, so I don't know. I'm sorry, hon. Boy, you guys got, you got a lot going on. Cancer, cancer with both of you. Oh my gosh. I'm so sorry. Yeah. So, um, and you're an hour and a half away from work. Your dad is, and is your dad's prognosis, uh, I mean, what are they saying about him? Is this terminal or what?

Yes, he's currently on hospice. Oh, my gosh. So how much longer do you think he has on? A couple months, if I'm lucky. Okay. I'm so sorry. Thank you. I think I'm just being stubborn and trying to fight the principle, I guess.

But maybe it's not worth it, but that's how I felt. I don't know what's not worth it. It's worth it to get to spend some time with your dad, and it's worth it to take care of your health. I don't have any problem with any of that. And if that means you walk away from this job, if you've got a way to eat over the next two months while you get some care and you provide some care to your dad in his last time here, I think that's a wonderful move. Do you have a way to eat?

I do, yes. Okay, so you've got some money coming in or a place to get some money or whatever. If you can do all of that and then just get you another job after a year from now, your cancer has been treated and your dad's thing has run its course and you're resetting your life a year from now and you get a new job and you move on, I've got no issue with that at all. I just want to be sure you're okay in the middle of this, okay? Okay.

You know, I play house, as you would call it. You're living with someone? Is that what you're saying? Yeah. So he's supporting you financially? Yes. Okay. Well, then you're okay. Yeah. I don't see any reason that you have to stay in this position.

If they want to give you paid leave and that's something they offer as an employee benefit, that would be awesomeness. But I think you're out of there and you've got to take care of your daddy and take care of you is what it sounds to me like, kiddo. I'm so sorry. What a tough, tough situation. This is The Ramsey Show. You're still here?

What are you doing? You do know that the rest of today's show is playing right now over on the Ramsey Network app, right? All you got to do to finish the episode is search Ramsey Network in the App Store, Google Play Store, or just click the link in the show notes to download the app for free. Yep, you heard me right, for free. Then right there on the home screen, you can watch the rest of today's show. Bada bing, bada boom. All right, I'm getting out of here. Enjoy. We'll see you on the app.