You Make Too Much Money To Be This Broke!
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work, and make a difference.

that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, PhD in counseling. He's my co-host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225. The call is free, and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. Joe is in Dayton, Ohio. Hi, Joe. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hi, thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So I'm calling because we had filed bankruptcy back in 2019. Things happened. We thought we were ready to buy a house. And now we are back in debt again for a sum of about $118,000, not including my mortgage. So I know that there's an issue. I admit that.

I don't know where to go from here because there's a lot of things that I've done that my husband's not aware of. And I just want to get out of this cycle because I'm done. Wow. That's got to be kind of scary. It's very scary. Yeah. So what is it you've done your husband doesn't know about?

I've opened my credit cards. I have a total of like 18 credit cards. I have a total of... What are you doing with them? If I can be completely honest and vulnerable, when we bought this house...

I felt that I needed new things. We are the poster child of trying to impress people and wanting to have nice things and do nice things. And we put on this front like we have all of this money. Would it be okay to say that that's you, not we? Yeah, that's a you.

um it's i will say it's both of us he just doesn't know he thinks because i make a lot of money that we just so he's not involved in the finances at all not he doesn't even have access so the reason he doesn't know about it is just because of his lack of involvement not because you've actively deceived him fair yes that's exactly it okay what do you make

I make $125,000 a year by myself. What does he make? He makes $35,000 a year and I make an additional $15,000 with my side hustle. Okay. And what's your home worth? My home is worth about $225,000. And what's all this debt on? Credit cards?

I have, so I have on the, I owe $1,300 to the IRS. I have $9,500 of pay over times like paying for is like PayPal and Corona. I have $16,000 in like online loans like prosper. Um, we have a $40,000 car loan and then 45,500 is credit card. Okay.

All right. And you guys are 55? I'm 40. I'll be actually, my birthday's in a couple weeks. I'll be 43 and he'll be 45. Okay, cool. Well, the first thing I would tell you, and John can elaborate, is that you're not going to be free or heal by yourself. This idea that you're going to carry all the weight of this financial family and make all the decisions is

is unwise and it's not working. Agreed? That's correct. And so we need two things relationally. One, as you go to him and say, honey, we're in a mess again because I didn't say no and you weren't involved. So I've got to have you and me working together from this point forward for the rest of our lives where both of us know every single thing every single month.

Period. We're going to do a budget together, and we're going to take this $175,000 income, and we're going to clean up this new mess that we've made since bankruptcy. Okay? Because basically, you filed bankruptcy and didn't change a single habit. No, not at all. And your need to impress other people with money you don't have that you don't even really like continued. That is correct. And so we relapsed.

That's what it amounts to. So that's got to stop, this need for affirmation from others. One of the things we find with wealthy people is that one of the keys to them becoming wealthy is they reach a point they don't give a crap what anybody thinks. And you give way too many craps what people think. I do. You said that. It comes from my childhood. Oh, it comes from all of our childhood. We all need affirmation. We all need a pat on the head.

Right. But you're too dadgum old and rich income wise to act like a 14 year old girl that needs affirmation. Time to be a grown woman and stuff.

And can I ask one more question with that? Because I know that this is wrong. My husband has worked at the same job for like 22 years. He's not leaving. He's made it very clear, but he only makes 1675 an hour. And so part of me, again, I know this is wrong. I get angry with him and angry.

I sometimes tend to blame things on him, like, what's your fault? You're not doing your part. So I feel like I do this because I do what I have to do. How can I get over that? I know that that is not right. And it's a separate issue. Yeah, you're looking to you're looking to blame. Don't do that.

You've lost respect for him a long time ago. And if you lost respect over him over a dollar amount, that's something you got to mind your soul over. And y'all need to get into, y'all need to go get into a marriage counselor because that's a mess. Okay. I want to double click on what Dave said.

Anytime you have a behavior that you need to change that's resulting from something out there that you're afraid of, you're afraid of what people are going to think. The only way to heal is straight through it. I had a season when I drove a used Corolla. Dave has a great story about the, it is a used car after bankruptcy. I want you to start selling stuff. Yeah, this car's got to go. The car's got to go. Everything's got to go. And I want you to practice that.

Not having nice stuff and have people see you. And you're going to find out you're not going to die. And this is the path towards not giving a crap. This is the path to freedom. But you've got to practice it and go right through it. Sell everything. Everything not tied down. So the two of you are going to do a budget every month with every dollar you've

On paper, we both look at it. We both understand it. We both agree what the money's going to go before it goes for the rest of your life. That's your antidote. And what comes with that is cleanliness, meaning you have to sit down and start with, oh, crap, here we are. So you're going to say, hey, here's what's going on. And you cannot bring up his income as part of this conversation. His income is not the reason you bought crap for the spare bedroom.

Right. Okay. For God's sakes. Yeah.

I'm here to tell anybody who does that, that is the worst thing to do. I'm the poster child of you think that you have enough money and you need to make the payments until you can. So you live on beans and rice. You don't go out to eat. You cancel any vacations. And the two of you roll up your sleeves and sell everything in sight. And you have $175,000 of your income to clean up $100,000 in debt. It's going to take you 18 months of scorched earth living.

where your broke friends are going to think you joined a cult. And that's just fine. You need some radical, dramatic, traumatic changes to swing the pendulum all the way to the other side for a while. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Rachel is in Eugene, Oregon. Hi, Rachel. How are you?

Hey, good. Thank you for taking my call. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? So my husband, he's a business owner, and frankly, the business is tanking. And he's racked up a lot of debt on both personal cards and business cards. And between that and his truck and trailer, we got a little over $90K in debt that we're looking at.

Um, we have a home that we own. We owe about 175 still on it and it's, and we have about a 4% interest rate. Um, or estimates are saying that our home is worth about 250 if we tried to sell it. So I was just going to see if you would advise us selling a home and going into a smaller place or hanging on to it. What do you make? Nothing. I'm a stay at home mom. What's he going to do?

He's looking at just getting a local job here, possibly electrician apprenticeship. But, I mean, we'd be making hardly anything, and he's not gotten a paycheck from work in probably three months. How are you eating? We had a stocked pantry that we've been working our way through, and there's a food pantry locally that we've been going through in Wick. Are you paying the light bill?

Um, we had a last month, but I don't know if we're going to this month. Okay. Yeah. I've got about $25 in your checking account. Yeah. So why would he take a half buck job making nothing? Um, our area is just, there's not a lot we've looked. Um, he's very skilled. He's works in construction, but even with that, he'd be lucky to get a $30 an hour job. Um,

Why? Eugene, Oregon is not like not doing construction. There's construction all over the place around you. There is, yes. And he can maybe try and get on two crews, but just hours for that. You know, most crews are on the same hour. You know, they would both be day 10, 10. Yeah, but an apprentice electrician is not going to make anything. You said that. So why would he even consider that? Go get on three different crews and work like a maniac. You have $25 and your wife's scared out of her mind.

You're about to not have electricity. There's a Walmart in Eugene, isn't there? Yes. Can you go throw boxes on the night shift? Like you got two guys here who've got wives and kids and I can't fathom.

the situation you're in right now. Not doing anything is not an option. Right. And I'm going to invest in my future by becoming an apprentice and starve to death? No, thank you. No. Okay. We need money. Yeah, he was just trying to think of a new career to start. Not now. I need money. Y'all are drowning. That's like trying to think of a new boat when yours is sinking. Like the first job is to get to shore. Sure. Okay. So I want him to go get three jobs in construction and Walmart box slinging.

Okay. Today. I want him starting right now. Okay. The truck and the trailer, bull crap construction stuff right there. What in the world? What is that stuff worth? The truck he owes about 14 still. And I looked on Kelly Blue Book. It's probably worth about six. If we're lucky, he's kind of run it to the ground with working it. Yeah. What's the trailer worth?

I haven't looked at what it's worth. We bought it for $17,000, and it's a 2024, so it was brand new. But I don't know what it would go for now. Okay. Let's get rid of that.

And it doesn't sound like you're stuck in the truck for right now. Let's get six jobs, and here's what I want you to do. I'm going to put you on hold. Team is going to pick up, and we're going to put you with one of our financial coaches. Okay. Now, he has to go get three jobs this week.

Okay. Now. Can I ask you about that? Yeah. Something about that, though? Yeah. With his business, he has a couple open jobs that he hasn't finished. We'll finish them on the weekend. Okay. That's what he's talked about doing. Okay. We got $25. Yeah. Rachel, how many kids do you have at home? Three with a fourth on the way. I thought so. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So, honestly, I don't want him to let those other customers down.

But I'm more concerned that he doesn't let his pregnant wife down. Yeah. Okay. Where you are is terrifying. Yeah. My wife, Sharon, will tell you that when she was in the exact same position, she felt like she was driving down the interstate and hit a patch of ice and the car was spinning and she was getting ready to hit the crud out of something. She just didn't know what it was. You know that kind of terror where you open your mouth to scream and nothing comes out? Yep. That's where you're sitting, kiddo.

Yeah. And so you guys, and the only answer to it is extreme activity on his part. So I'm going to work on three things and he can, he can put off working weekends until he, uh, at the new jobs until he gets these jobs wrapped up, but he needs to get them wrapped up and wrapped up now.

And I want him to see how much money he can make. Well, I don't want to overwork. I might burn out. You're not going to burn out. Right before you die, you will pass out. He's been working 60 to 80-hour weeks the last three months. But making no money. Right. Yeah. See, that's the issue. So we need some money, short-term. This is survival. Now, once we get you with a coach and a counselor, here's what we're going to do. The first money that comes in, let me tell you what you buy with it. You ready? Yeah.

Yep. Food. Okay. Period. Not eating out food. Grocery store food. You're at home with kids. You cook. Yep. Fresh vegetables. Fresh meat. Homemade everything. You cook. Yep. Okay. Food. Lights and water second. Okay. Keep your utilities on. You own the house. Pay your mortgage third. Okay. Pay the truck payment fourth. Okay. And I don't care about anybody else.

Until your family is warm and housed and fed. Okay. He can make that much money by the end of next week. Okay, yeah. You follow me? So we'll get the wolf away from the door and the terror and the panic, and then we can start to think about long-distant future. But right now, we've got to take care of our own household first. Okay. That's biblical. Yes, for sure. Take care of your own household first.

Yes, and the idea of possibly selling the home to gain the equity. You may have to do that later, but I don't think you do. I don't think you have a home problem or even a trailer or a truck problem. I think you've had an income problem for some time, and it's compounded and fell in on itself. If we reverse that trend and create a huge income with a ridiculous number of well-paid hours, then we can flip this thing on its head pretty quick. I don't think you're going to have to sell it, but it all depends on how much money he can go make.

Okay. Is that okay? Thank you. Yes. Listen, we're not charging you for this coach. We're going to pay for it. I've been right where you are. I remember what it feels like to be so scared you can't breathe. Yeah. Okay. And kiddo, listen, last thing is this. Your husband is a good guy. He's a good dad and he's a hardworking dude. His business just failed. That doesn't mean he's a bad guy.

And he doesn't feel real studly right now. No, he doesn't. When his business is failing. It takes away some of your manhood. You follow me? Yeah. So you remind him you married him for him, not for his truck and trailer. Absolutely. Okay. And he married you. You married him because you knew he was going to take care of you. And he is. He'll go do it. He'll go do exactly what I told him to do. This guy's not a bad dude. Yeah. How old is he? 26?

24. Yeah. Okay. Almost like I've done this before. Yeah. Honey, you're going to be okay. We're going to walk with you, okay? Okay. All right. You hang on. They'll pick up and get you set up. Dave, what is the, what's, what is the, this is a world I don't know that you've lived in. What's the moment when, especially in this case, a man with a dream calls it? Because I can't imagine working 60, 80 hours a week and my wife's going to a food kitchen. We always call it too late. Yeah. Yeah.

because we always hang on that much longer. Yeah. And then, and sometimes it's too late to turn it or salvage anything. So he should have been out of business six months ago. Right. Because it wasn't working then. We know that because the debt he's racked up, not...

earning money. So we know he's been supporting this habit called a small business. So this dream, but your dream becomes a nightmare. And those of us that are entrepreneurs, we hang on five months, four months, three months, too long, almost always. And then you get a scared wife saying about to cut the lights off. Yeah. Sharon would have left, but she didn't have a car. That's exactly. This is the Ramsey show.

Welcome back. This is the Ramsey Show. And on the debt-free stage, we have Tanya and Ariel. Where are you guys coming here from? We are coming from Huachula, Florida. Is that outside of Tampa? Yeah, it's about an hour and a half south. Ish? All right. And how much have you paid off? So we paid off our house $189,000. Whoa! Weird people. Yes, sir. Looking at weird people. Yes, sir.

No debt. What's the house worth? I think last I checked was $287,000. How old are you two? We're 34. You're going to pay for a house? Yes, sir. You know that's weird. It is, yes. In such a good way. You're awesome. And how much is in your 401ks in your retirement?

I think right now, last I checked, it was around, I think, $70,000, something like that. Okay. So you're approaching a half-million-dollar net worth on your way to being millionaires, and you're only 34 years old. Yes. Look at you. Well done. That's a beautiful house. Thank you. That's stunning. Well done, guys. It is nice. And $189,000, how long did it take?

It took us 34 months. 34 months. And your range of income during that time? So I started out at my local hospital around $120,000 and then we took a travel job and I think last year it was around $350,000. You're a nurse? Yes, sir. Okay. Wow. Travel nursing. Here we go. So whole family go on the adventure or are you just out of town? No. So we're fortunate enough my wife stays home and she homeschools our boys so I'll

I was basically gone at work all the time. Okay. And she was home staying, taking care of the kids. Yeah. But we all traveled with him. We all traveled together. Okay. Okay. So you're not gone from the family all the time? No. Okay. Are you going to keep doing that or are you going to go back and land at home? No, we plan to go home. Okay. All right. Yeah.

Good for you. Well, I mean, you got that nice house. Yes. Living in a dadgum hotel. I mean, wow. Okay. Good for you, man. You paid a price to win is what you're saying. Yes, sir. We did. Wow. Was it worth it? Oh, yeah. Did people think you're weird? Somebody, did anybody criticize you? You know, life's too short to work so hard. You just work all the time. People say stuff like that? We heard it, but.

We're used to being different, so. Yeah, we've been on the Dave Ramsey Financial Peace University since 2012. Oh, wow. And we got married super young, and we needed a way to find how to manage our money, and your Financial Peace University came into our lives. So we've been weird since 2012. Okay. So is that your church or what? Yes, sir. Oh, which church?

At that time it was a celebration church. Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Very cool guys. Congratulations. How fun. How does it feel to have no payments in the world? Like just weight off my shoulders. Yeah. So what, uh, you know, you guys, you go out of town, you're, you're really working a lot. Like you said, I work all the time and you knock your house out at 34 years old and

What drives that? What was your motivation? What was your why? Why push so hard? At that point, like we had said, we had been debt-free up until our house. So we went from having no debt to the $189,000. And it was just a mortgage, but it still felt like a weight on my shoulders. Because it is. Yeah. And so I was always thinking about paying. We were both thinking about paying it off early. And I always thought, I guess, the morbid side of me from being a nurse, what happens if I die or if I get sick and I can't work?

then it's on my wife so i wanted to pay it off and it just be something we don't have to worry about when did you start traveling during covid yes sir march of 2022 okay oh after coven okay

But still, there's a lot of travel nursing going on. Oh, yes, sir. Because there's a shortage. Yeah. Wow. All right, Mom. So husband comes and says, I'm going to hit the road. I'm going to double, almost triple my salary. Yes. And you're going with me. But you're going to be on your own. Right. Well, the good thing about...

is that we've always had a strong communication. So we were kind of thinking about it together. He didn't just come to me and was like, this is what I'm going to do. He was coming to me and he was telling me like, this is something, you know, painting a picture of our future for us. So,

He wanted to make sure that I was on board with him first before he went and made that decision and took the steps for it. And of course I was because I think for me, the most important thing was to have him home with our children more than what he was because he was working just as much, just getting paid like regular nursing pay. So, so.

I was like, it'll be worth it in the end. So just a few short years, we're going to hammer this thing out and then you can be home forever. And that was what I had in mind, in my mind the whole time because it did get hard sometimes. Live like no one else so later you can live and give like no one else. So,

I have a, this is a personal, I have a bad habit of having this kind of conversation. Are you in? I'm in, we're going to do this. And then it's going to be amazing. And my wife and I, we, we, we cross hands and we cheered. It's like, ah, and then like 30 days later, I'm like, this is the worst I'm out. Right. So how did y'all keep going? Because there, there's a point when this is, this leaves a cool idea and a neat moment to, this is miserable day after day after day. Um,

Honestly, it was seeing the progress that we would make, every paycheck that he would get. So about every two weeks, I was done and ready to go home. And then the paycheck would hit and we were like, okay, we can do this. This is why we're doing this. I can do it for two more weeks. I'll just put $15,000 on the mortgage. I can do it for two more weeks. Yes, sir. Yes, that really was something that kept me going for sure with the kids. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is?

It's been budgeting, being on the same page like Tonya said, budgeting and sticking to that plan and I think living below your means, not comparing yourself to what you do or don't have. Yeah, that's very nice. Good for you guys. Very, very, very proud of you. Excellent job. So talk to the person who's out there considering, I don't know, I don't know about working all those hours for a couple years, but I'll be free. I don't know, it sounds tough. It is hard, right? Oh, yes. Is it worth it? Talk to them.

I think it is. You just have to decide in your mind that the end goes better than what's going on. I would rather take a couple years of pain than a lifetime of misery.

Yes. Yeah. The ability to delay pleasure is a sign of emotional and spiritual maturity. That's what it comes down to. How did you decide that this mortgage was painful? Because most people get a mortgage and they're so happy that they quote unquote qualified. They feel like it's they feel like they won something by getting to get underneath this squat bar. That is their mortgage. What in your life said, no, this is a burden. This isn't something I should be happy about.

I think when we moved into the house after the butterflies left of owning our own home, looking around at how beautiful it is, and then just thinking about the mortgage payments coming up this month, and we weren't making much ground on it on the monthly payments. And I was like, we got to get rid of this.

I didn't like the feeling. I like it. Good for you guys. All right. And you brought the kiddos in. What are their names and ages? We have Noah, who's nine, and Jude, our baby, he's three. He was actually like one years old when he started the journey. You want to bring them up and have them in the debt-free scream or not? Yes, definitely. Come on up, guys. Come on, guys. Come on.

There you go. Very fun. Good-looking young men. Well done. Have they been practicing their debt-free screen? They sure have. Yes, sir, we have. All right. All right. Because mom and dad are heroes. They changed your whole family tree, boys. It's pretty incredible. You guys are amazing. I'm so proud of you. Thank you. Very, very, very well done.

All right. It is Noah or Tanya and Ariel. I'm sorry. Noah and Jude paid off $189,000 house and everything in 34 months at 34 years old, making $120,000 up to $350,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! Wow! Wow. So one of our...

Folks visiting the lobby just reminded me I had forgotten anything about it. 1988, September 23rd, which is today for those of you listening live, was the day I filed bankruptcy and started this whole thing so that those people could be standing there right now. Thank you, God. This is the Ramsey Show.

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All right, we're going on a cruise. At least some of us are. You may not be if you don't get your cabin reserved soon. We're going to be there March 22nd through the 29th. Next spring, the Live Like No One Else cruise. The entire ship is Ramsey. Holland America, very high-end cruise.

Very nice. It'll be all the Ramsey personalities, including me and Sharon, the entire week. Manit Chauhan from the Food Channel, Stephen Curtis Chapman. Man, the lineup is unbelievable. And, of course, it's all-inclusive. The restaurants are top of the line. We've got all kinds of Ramsey experiences and talks we'll be doing on the cruise stage. Oh, by the way, yeah, it's premium Caribbean, Turks and Caicos, Puerto Rico.

St. Thomas, the Bahamas, it's all there.

We've got the spa. Ken Coleman's going to be conducting a pickleball clinic on how not to play pickleball. George Campbell will be doing a cannonball contest in the pool that he'll lead. Yeah, that's it. Like per square inch of body mass. Exactly. You have to measure it differently. Dave, I've never been on a cruise. You haven't? No, this is my first one. But explain this to me. There's different levels of cruise ship. I guess that makes sense, but there's...

Definitely. Way different levels. This is the fancy one. This is the fancy one. It's not the fanciest, but it's up in the top echelon. There are some that are pretty much Walmart on the seas. Yes, this is not that. This is not Walmart on the seas. This is Target. I'm just kidding. No, this is not even Target. This is Nordstrom on the seas. It's much better than that. All right, excellent. It's not a private shopping experience, but it is Nordstrom. There you go. So good stuff, yeah.

Yeah, some of the other ones I'll pass on. I'm getting old. But this is one of the ways they talked me into doing this is we're going to do it right. So...

All right. Hey, ramseysolutions.com slash cruise. There are a handful of cabins left. You can reserve one for $600, and that puts you in line, by the way, to upgrade. If you wanted to upgrade to something even bigger and nicer on the ship, you pretty much need to already be on the ship to do that. So jump in there. I mean, we're like 90-something percent sold out, so you've just got a minute, a hot minute. Tabitha is in Savannah, Georgia. Hi, Tabitha. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hey, Dave. Hey, John. I am calling. My husband and I are in Baby Step 4, and he is having issues getting qualified for life insurance due to some medical issues. Why? He's...

PTSD, sleep apnea, that is not treatable. He is a disabled veteran, total and permanent, 100%. So we've been battling that for about five years, and we just keep getting turned down because of his medical path. With the PTSD, he is in therapy, doing what he needs to do, taking his medication, doing all that, but we still are coming up against being turned down. Is he also overweight?

I mean, slightly. I mean, he could maybe lose 30 pounds. Okay. All right. All right. Does he smoke? He does not. Okay. Well, PTSD is enough to make you, depending on the intensity of the diagnosis or whatever, is enough to make you uninsurable. So what you've got is an extra, how old is he? 33. How old are your kiddos?

None. Okay. All right. So what we're trying to do with life insurance is make sure you're okay if something happens to him. Yes. Okay? Now, when you can't get traditional life insurance, you're uninsurable, there are things called guaranteed issue policies. They are more expensive. Okay.

but they're guaranteed issue there's no medical they just write it you write them a check they do it and the biggest one you can get is call your mortgage company and they will sell you a mortgage life insurance policy they would love to sell you one it's about 5x of what you pay for the same amount of term if he didn't have these diagnosis but you can still get it okay so at least the mortgage would be paid off if something happened and i would do that

Okay. The other guaranteed issues are usually kind of gimmicky, small policies like $10,000 with your checking account or two times his salary with his work.

And they do it through a group policy and it's a guaranteed issue. Or if he's in an association of something or a hobby in something, sometimes they'll let you buy a $10,000 or $20,000 guaranteed issue. Again, per thousand, they're expensive. But if you bought four or five of those and you got mortgage life, then, you know, you got to check for 50%.

50 grand and your house was paid off, that's better than nothing. And it's not so expensive that it just breaks the bank. It's not an efficient way for the rest of you out there to buy life insurance. But when it's your only option, it's your only option. And Dave, there's the other side of this teeter-totter, which is, Tabitha, you guys have to be hyper and intentional about not having anything on the you owe something ledger.

Yeah, you get out of debt and stay out of debt. So if something was to happen to him, the only bills you would need to pay if you have mortgage insurance is you've got to come up with food and electricity and water, right? Yes. And I work, so the biggest worry is the house. Like if something were to happen to him, a car accident or whatnot, I just want to make sure I can pay off the house so I'm not having to figure out, like, grief him and then figure out where to go after that. That's right. The mortgage life, again, they love selling it because it's –

So it's five times what it ought to be. And it's really profitable for them. So they'll sell you one. Believe me, I'm sure they have. I'm sure they have one in their back pocket that they'll just whip that thing right out and hand it to you. So, yeah. So that's your biggest one. Mortgage life insurance for the rest of you do not buy mortgage life insurance. It's five times more expensive by the same amount of term insurance. Pay off your house with that.

For one time, the expense. I mean, just don't get ripped off by your work life insurance if you're insurable. And I will tell you, I brought this up to her because she said sleep apnea is what made me think about it. There's a correlation between that and being overweight typically. Not completely, but typically. So the biggest things that keep people out of the life insurance market are smoking,

When you smoke, your life insurance doubles instantly. And there's a reason. You're going to spend more time in the hospital and you're going to die earlier.

It's a statistical fact. Okay. So there's a lot of reasons to talk about. That's a habit. I got a kick. It's super expensive. And I'm not talking about the cost of the cigarettes. I'm talking about the cost of the medical care because you're two, three X on your medical care cost and your intent, your likelihood of dying and your two X on your life insurance cost. So we're talking, those cigarettes are costing you somewhere around 15, 20 bucks a piece, right?

Something like that, if you're out there in the market, between all the things that add up that that's costing you. And right behind that is being overweight. And so these are two things that people can adjust. It's not easy to quit smoking. It's not easy to lose weight. But it's worth it. There's some serious financial benefits, not to mention everything else. Not to mention the health benefits, that's right. Yeah, and so, you know, these are things you need to –

a dress i was playing coffee with this doctor who was slightly overweight and he said he goes you know most of my patients are overweight i go yeah well me too you too and he goes yeah me too and he goes it's ridiculous he goes it's crazy it's america right we're all we're all carrying a few extra and he goes this lady came in and she said i think i have a glandular problem he said no ma'am

You don't. There are no fat people in concentration camps. Good God, Dave. What a brutal old doctor. I thought, well, there it is. It's caloric intake, Dave. Stay away from the donuts, Dave. No!

You brutal old doctor with your belly sticking out telling this story. It's great. I loved it. No, it's hard nowadays. I think we're running out of, with all the new medications, we're running out of excuses to not say, okay, I can have some sort of control over this thing. Well, you can. I mean, there are obviously a few people who have medical situations. Yeah, but I mean, there's so many options now. But the...

Oh, man. But these are two things that most people can gain control over, and they will affect your finances. Will they deny your life insurance over obesity? Oh, definitely. Had no idea. Oh, absolutely. Depending on the level of it. But yeah, definitely. And you can't get premium for sure. But BMI, I mean, they're looking at that for premium pricing for sure. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John Deloney. Ramsey, personality, number one best-selling author, host of the Dr. John Deloney Show, Ph.D. in counseling. He's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Anthony's in Springfield. Hi, Anthony. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hey, Dave. I didn't realize how easy it was to get a hold of you. Just dial the old phone, brother. Yeah, that's awesome. What's up? I first heard about you when I was in high school. That was six years ago, seven years ago. So it's cool to be able to talk to you over the phone like this. Well, honored to have you, sir. How can we help you today?

Um, so I have had for the past, um, two and a half, three years, I was diagnosed with, um, bipolar, um, disorder and I was really sick. I was misdiagnosed for a while. Um, so my, my symptoms got really bad. Um, I could hardly get out of bed. Um, I had also just moved out of my parents' house and I was really, um,

it was really hard for me to, to work, make any sort of income. And as time went on, it got worse and worse. Um, eventually I found, um, some medicine that works for me. Um, and now I'm trying to, I just wanted to hear what you had to say about how I could maybe go about finding a job that is good for me. Um, even though I have maybe a little bit,

more of a difficult time with my condition. How long have you been on these meds that are working? Only about five months. Okay. So my experience walking alongside folks with bipolar one or two over the years has been after several difficult episodes of either being really up or really down,

And then you find some meds that work. The hardest thing is to reestablish trust in you. Yeah. Cause you're always waiting for this. You're always waiting for this other shoe to drop. Is that ring a bell? Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

The two things that I've seen folks over the years stumble with bipolar disorder is, number one, never fully taking that next step after they have, and I hate to use this word, but I'm just going to use it. You know what I'm talking about, just between us. But stabilize. Once you're leveled out, it's a fear of taking that next step. And the other thing that I've seen is this feeling after six months, eight months, I'm quote-unquote okay, and I quit taking my meds.

So yeah, I've been, my mom's a nurse and she's a really, really kind of knocked that into me. Okay. So if you're there, the next thing I want you to do is trust yourself as much as Dave and I are going to trust your next step. Okay.

Every single person you come into contact with in your whatever job you take is going to be fighting their own battles. Their mom's going to be sick. They're going to be struggling with depression. They're going to have credit card debt. They're going to have a dad who's struggling. Everybody's fighting something. So I want you to focus on taking the next right thing, which you got to go get a job and you're going to slowly establish trust again in you.

Yeah. Right. And you'll have ups and downs and that's okay, but you're going to keep going. You're going to keep going. You're going to keep going. I'm proud of you, man. And by the way, it's logical to trust the current version of you. It would be illogical to trust the one year old version of you when it comes to work. Agreed. One year ago was not a good thing. Agreed.

Yeah, but that's not the pattern we're dealing with today today. We've got some we've stabilized We've got some meds that cut this thing leveled off and so there's reason logically to trust In your ability to hold the job. What do you want to do man? I have no clue and i've never known Okay, well i'm gonna hook you up We're gonna hook you up with ken coleman's get clear assessment and maybe give yourself a picture But what brings you joy what lights you up? Um

I really like talking with people. I'm kind of a people person. I enjoy hearing people's stories and getting closer and stuff like that. I don't know. I love going to church. Well, a 24-year-old that can play well with others has got a lot of possibilities. What's that? I said a 24-year-old that can play well with others has a lot of possibilities. Yeah.

You might be an amazing salesman. You might be an amazing restauranteur. I mean, if you like talking with people and listening to their stories, so much of our world is so obsessed with people talking about themselves. If you like hearing somebody else's story, you could do anything. Yeah, you're the opposite of selfie. Yeah. That's cool. I'm proud of you, man. Way to go, Anthony. Way to go. Now it's just about reestablishing trust in you, my brother.

Coleman's book is Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It has the Get Clear Assessment as part of it. We're going to give that to you as our gift. As soon as you get it, Anthony, take the assessment and then start looking and see if it doesn't spark some ideas because it'll give you answers instantly.

of the direction you should go. Also, let's send them proximity principle, and that's going to give, Anthony is going to give you some tips on meeting people in your current area that might be doing the thing that you're like, oh, okay, I might try that. It's going to walk you through step-by-step how to go meet those folks and begin to ask the right questions so you can take your next step. Yeah, and don't put pressure on yourself that says, I have to select the thing I'm going to do for the next 40 years. You have to select the thing you're going to do for the next one year.

Yeah. The thing I'm doing right now didn't exist 10 years ago, 15 years ago. No such thing as YouTube or podcast didn't exist. And here we are. Right. Or tick tick tock, which Dave is a huge fan of. Yeah, that I was going to say something smart. I like, but I'll just leave it at that. You know,

I saw the guys reach for the dump button, and then they just pulled back slowly. They were afraid I was going to try to air something that's un-airable. We'll get fined by the FCC. There we go. Open phones here at 888-825-5225. John, we've got one minute going into the break. I have dealt with, in the financial world, bipolar so much.

because when they're manic, they spend like maniacs, no pun intended, and then they're shamed and depressed. They go underwater and they can't work. Back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. It affects income, affects spending, both. And that doesn't bother me. I can help you with those things. What bothers me is there's too many people in the mental health field, and I've used up all the time, that act like this is not normal.

that you can't get better. And people get better all the time. Yeah, they act like this is...

This is, you're the worst thing that's ever, you've ever been labeled. And so you just go over in the corner because you can't do anything. It's just not true. You and I both know people who work really hard. They take their medication. They start taking care of their bodies and their minds. And man, they can go on to do great things. Yeah, they're very functional. Yeah. And they can be some of the most amazing thinkers and doers out there. It's astounding. And Anthony, he's got the world wide open in front of him right now. Absolutely. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Today's question of the day is brought to you by Y Refi. Politicians make a lot of promises, and sometimes they might keep one of them, or maybe two.

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dot com slash Ramsey might not be in all states. All right, today's question comes from Savannah in Michigan. Savannah writes, I've been following your plan for three years and I've done well for myself as a single parent. I'm debt free, I have a healthy emergency fund and will likely pay off my house in three years. I've had to make many sacrifices and I've worked hard. However, some of my friends and family are struggling. There's a constant stream of complaints at family and church gatherings about the cost of groceries, increased rent and house prices being unaffordable.

This is usually followed by snide comments about the haves and have-nots, which occasionally descends into assumptions that those who own their home and have investments are rich, greedy people who benefited at the expense of others less fortunate. How do I, as someone who has worked so hard to better my situation, deal with the hurt I feel when I'm called greedy and selfish?

How do I not feel angry and resentful towards those people when I've made so many sacrifices to get where I am? They're the ones who choose to complain about their situation rather than do something to get out of it. What do I do? That's tough. You need some new friends. I was going to say. Man, as Jay-Z once said, you dust your shoulders off and you head out the door, man. Yeah. Shake the dust off your sandals and keep moving. Whew.

Yeah, you do. You've got to. Here's the thing. One guy calls those people energy vampires, and they're sucking the blood out of your soul is what you're saying, because that's what negative people do that are victims and complain and blame everyone else. They're the opposite of people who provide hope, who provide encouragement, which refreshes people's souls instead of drains them. Right.

And so you have to say, all right, the people that I spend time with that are negative is going to be limited to the amount of energy I have to try to help them not be negative. But just to hang and sit for two hours while somebody bitches and moans and no, I'm not doing that. I don't do that.

If I have someone enter my life that's going to act that way, they get limited access to my brain. Yeah. And I can't stand it. That's been a really positive thing for me. That's been a hard thing for me. And it's it's I'm realizing to choose to spend time around those people is to choose to have less of time left, less of an impactful, meaningful time with my kids, with my wife, with my coworkers, with my other friends. It's finite. That's right. It gives you the flu. That's right.

It's contagious. Yeah. And I spend time, it gets on me. I get in my car and I'm like, well, what did you do? It's hard not to become the air you breathe. And so, Dave, how do you, whatever you have. If everyone in your church is acting that way, you need to change churches. It's time. That's right. But Dave, how do you begin to, that sounds weird, make new friends?

You got to go make new friends. You got to go be weird and make new friends. We were just talking off air about a mutual friend of ours that's sober. He's been sober about two years. He's not doing cocaine anymore. He's not drinking anymore. You know what he's got? New friends. He's got new friends. That's exactly right. Because he wanted a new life. Yeah. You can't keep hanging out with people snorting cocaine if you want to quit cocaine. Hello. You got to get new friends. And this is mental cocaine. Yeah. It's mental leukemia.

you know, and you're going to catch it. If you hang around with it, you become who you hang around with. You talk like them, you think like them, God help you. You vote like them. Right. And so, you know, read books change and you don't have to be mean about it. But I mean, think about it. If all your buddies are your drinking buddies and you have an alcohol problem, you have also got a friend problem and you have to change friends. You do not have a choice. If you want to stop your alcohol problem, our buddy doesn't have a choice. Yep. He

He can't run with the other crowd he used to run with and be anything but a drunk and a coke head. And real friends will say, hey, we're going to love you and support you on this new adventure. And either we're going to stop or, man, we're going to honor you and not do this around you. Yeah. I mean, if you've got buddies that are your drinking buddies and, you know, they say, hey, come over the party, but we're not going to force it on you and we're not all going to be laying on the floor throwing up, you know.

You know what I'm saying? Sure, yeah. I mean, it's not, you know, what are you, a bunch of college students? I mean, what is this? And so, you know, people that are 50 years old still act that way. I know it's shocking, but they do. And so, you know, you've got to –

Yeah, you got to get new friends. We yelled this a lot on the show and we celebrate being weird. But the truth is being weird sometimes comes at a cost. People don't want to be around you. You take their, you know, that kid in math class that always has got hundreds and everyone's kind of annoyed by him. You become that for their life. Dave, we first thing this morning, the staff meeting for a thousand people, we had a guest come in and we've been doing a documentary with her.

She's one of those amazing women that's a single mom who takes away every single excuse. Rural America, tons of different identities. And she just said, enough is enough is enough. And we keep running into these people over and over and over. I remember the teacher in New York City when there was 100% lockdown and she figured out a way to pay off six figures. There's just these folks that continue to say,

Nobody's coming for me. I'm going to go out there and make this thing happen. I'm not going to sleep. I'm just going to go and go. I'm going to stop blaming because blaming doesn't feed my family. Complaining doesn't help solve anything. And they just go do it. But that comes at a social cost when everyone wants to just complain.

You know, we built a house a few years ago that was a little bit ridiculous, truthfully. It was a lot of fun. It was a really nice place. And we lived there for about 14 years. But we had a friend at that time, about the time we moved in, came with some other friends. We weren't there. And it got back to us that she said, well, they're just out of control. That's ostentatious. They should be ashamed of themselves. You know what? I helped her with that.

She never had to visit there again. It was not a problem for her. She did not have to endure my problem anymore. So I assisted her with not being offended anymore. She never ate dinner there. So there you go. It's like, you know, it's okay. I can help you with that. Well, and your best friends are the ones you call, and when you have those moments, they celebrate with you. Yeah. They laugh at you and give you a hard time. I want some brag moments. But they cheer you on, man. Yeah. They cheer you on. A group of guys I get with once a month, and one of our rules is,

cone of silence in the room. Now, tell me something good that's going on. Tell me something you can brag about in here because there's nobody else you can brag to. And I'm your friend. I'm proud of you. I guarantee you everybody walks out of that room standing a little taller, a little more inspired. Shoulders back, head up, baby. A little more like, oh, I'm going to go get mine then. Oh. Yes, that's so cool, man. Yeah, baby, howl at the moon. I'm saying, you know, that's it. That's it. Versus like, well, you know the little man can't get ahead.

We're all stuck. I sure hope we can elect a president who will fix my miserable life because I won't get off my assumptions and do it myself. I've never heard get off my assumptions. That's fantastic, Dave. Eeyore is your spirit animal. Come on. Seriously. So that's what she's dealing with. I feel for you, darling, because, I mean, we've all got the reason we're going off on is we've all got people like that. But here's the thing.

15 years from today, your income will be within 10 to 15% of the average of your 10 closest friends income. And I bet, you know what? I've never read this study, but I bet your emotional health will be too. I bet your marriage will be too. Yep. I bet the books you read. I bet just the joy you walk through life with. Maybe the fact that you even read a book. Ooh, there's a thought. Yeah. Wow. Do you hang out with people that read or that knows everything on Netflix? Yeah.

Yeah. And by the way, groceries have gotten expensive. Houses and rent have gotten expensive. They have. Yeah. So we can make snide comments or we can get about it. It just is. Here's the thing. We were talking about this this morning. We don't have people on the debt-free stage screaming, complaining about inflation. No. You notice that? Yeah. None of them are griping about interest rates. Yeah. They're not talking about the cost of eggs. They're not talking about Bidenomics. They took control of their life. Interesting. This is The Ramsey Show.

Hey guys, Dave Ramsey here, and I got a big announcement. I'm coming to a city near you live on the Money and Relationships Tour with Dr. John Deloney. This is the most interactive event we've ever done. You get to decide what we talk about. You do not want to miss this. We'll be coming to Louisville, Durham, Atlanta.

Phoenix, Fort Worth, and Kansas City in April and May of 2025. Get your tickets and more information at ramseysolutions.com slash tour.

Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the Debt Free Stage. Corey and Corrine are with us. Hi, guys. How are you? Doing well, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. Welcome. Where do y'all live? We live just outside of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, about 45 minutes northwest. City of brotherly love. I love it. Welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you two paid off? $274,000, Dave.

How long did this take? Six and a half years. Wow, good for you. And your range of income? We started out at $117,283 and went up to $145,731. Cool. What do you all do for a living? Are you an actuary? I...

to the dollar no no but i am a nerd so um i am an hvac service technician love it okay cool and i work at the ymca um i'm a call center uh registrar amazing so 274 000 over six and a half years i'm guessing that might be the house

Well, Dave, we paid off a loan from a 401k and then we bought property in the mountains and we paid that off. And then, yes, we did pay off our primary residence as well. Looking at weird people. Very good. What's this house worth? Well, it's going to sound kind of funny. The one in the mountains is we built a house on it. It's 143 acres. That one's about

800,000 and the one that we currently live in is about 279. Okay I'll go with that. Yeah. I like it I like it very fun very fun. So you're millionaires and how old are you?

I'm 50 and she looks a lot younger. I'm 52. Proud. I like it. I'm going with that. Wait, wait, wait, wait. You can't be a millionaire and have two properties if you work in HVAC and at a call center at the Y. That's humanly impossible. Haven't you heard about the price of eggs? It is impossible. It is impossible if you don't follow the Ramsey plan. Whoa. Sign him up. Sign him up.

Yeah, there we go. So what do you tell people? I mean, this is pretty impressive. You pulled off a deal here. Now, let me guess, too. The way you did the mountain property, you don't have anywhere near 800 in it. No, no, no, no. We bought just bare land, and then I...

pretty much built the house with family. Yeah. Okay. We just paid as we go. Yeah. That's what we did. And that, that, but so you got little to nothing in it compared to the value. Yeah. Yeah. But, but you still end up with a fabulous property and then your home, your day home, your, your through the weak place. Right. Yeah. I like it. Congratulations. What's it like being one of those kind of guys that can fix stuff and build stuff? I,

Honestly, if I had to pay somebody to do everything, that would be a big problem. It's a lot cheaper to do it yourself. He's also tight. Yeah. Absolutely. And the nice thing was you taught me how to do everything too. So in case he's not around, I can fix a kitchen sink too. Whoa. Just kick me while I'm down. Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate you. Jeez. Yeah.

John, John, I don't know what this means about you, but we'll deal with that later. I think we all know what this means about me. We'll deal with that later. This is not your moment. This is theirs. Okay, so what happened? What happened six years ago and you just said, forget it. Let's just be millionaires and pay it all off as we go. Okay, so we never really had a lot of credit card debt, but the one or two months that we did carry a balance over, I got upset with her for not being able to pay it off when I was the one spending on it.

And that was completely unfair of me. And I didn't know that until Dave smacked me upside the head with a two by four.

Metaphorically. Metaphorically, of course, yes. And so I found you guys. I'm so tech unsavvy, it's crazy. A friend of mine set me up with iHeartRadio, and as a part of the setup, it asks what you're interested in, and I said finance and talk radio.

Well, ding, ding. You came up. I guess I did. As soon as I heard your message and that you pulled your teaching from the Bible, God's never lied to me. So...

I figured, go ahead and follow that plan. That works for me. And we had four and a half hour drives up to the mountains on more of a regular basis. So then that's how he got me into it too. So we listened as we would travel. And then I got really excited about it. And he surprised me with the girls and I came home. I'm a type A personality.

And there was this just obnoxious chain, just the big chain link all the way around my kitchen. And for every link, it was $1,000 left on our debt. And so I was motivated to get rid of that chain. Worked that out of my kitchen. Just for aesthetic purposes. Yep, exactly. Yeah, double payments to, you know, slip it away. Amazing. Mm-hmm.

Well, congratulations, you two. How's it feel? Great. Great, yeah. Really does. Any suggestions you have to somebody listening? Yes. Follow the plan exactly. Like I said, I service heating and air conditioning, and there is what we call a sequence of operation. If you want to know what's wrong with the piece of equipment, you have to know where it stops in the sequence of operation. And if you want to know what's wrong with your finances...

figure out where you've stopped in the sequence of operation is what I call your baby steps. And respect each other and respect the program, respect the budget. Meaning stick to it. Well, I like the way you said that because that's different than like,

Stick to it. Yeah, like there's something about respect me and I'm going to respect you and we're going to respect this thing. That's a level of dignity and we both promised, right? Absolutely. We gave our word on this deal. That's cool. He's my hero. So are you. He's my hero. He's my partner. Yeah.

You guys are incredible. I'm so proud of you. You're both heroes. Way to go. You're sitting here 50 years old. You got a paid for mountain property, paid for home. Everything's paid for. You're millionaires as a result. And you did that working as a heat and air tech and working in the call center at the Y. It's very impressive. Thank you.

Don't tell me you can't win. They just took away all your excuses, boys and girls. Yeah, very well done. Corey and Corinne, Philadelphia, 274,000 paid off in six and a half years, making 117 to 145. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free. Yeah. Yeah. There we go.

There we go. I think the universe is trying to tell me something, Dave. This is the fourth or fifth person I've met personally today that is a curve buster, is an excuse stealer. You can't make any excuses. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's it. It has to take away. It's one of the reasons we do this. It's called hope. Right. Once you see someone and you go, I can do that.

That's hope. That's hope. I can do that. It's a light in the darkness. I can do that. I can do that. Look at that. I can do that. I got smart, but I'm smart. I can do that. That's right. I can do that. He worked hard, but I work hard. I can do that. And that's called hope. And that's why we put these stories that are true out there and have for so many years. We kind of backed into this debt-free scream thing. We didn't invent it. A lady just called up and started screaming one day.

I'm debt-free, I'm debt-free, I'm debt-free, I paid off everything, Dave! And she hung up. And that was the first debt-free scream, you know? It's like, so, yeah, but hey, you need to celebrate when you freaking win. We were just talking about that with the other thing a minute ago. You need some people you can brag to, and we're the people you can brag to. We'll brag with you, we'll brag on you, we're proud of you. You're heroes when you take control of your life while standing neck-deep in a bunch of victims. Mm-hmm.

Everybody's standing around barking and carrying on and acting like they're stuck in the richest country the world has ever known with more freedom and technology at your fingertips than at any time in human freaking history. You got no excuses. You are free. You live in America. Shut up and go suck it up, buttercup. Go do it.

There's no excuse. Corey and Corinne just head to the mountains and say, we'll go to our other house. Peace out. See you later. Peace out. My $800,000 weekend property. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Go to fpu.com, lead, and get your first class set up, or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or on podcast. John is in Tucson. Hi, John. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? I'm...

I've owned a home in California for the last, well, 50 years ago is when we purchased it. We've rented it for the last 20 to the same renters, a young couple, and I'd like to see about how we can go about selling that house to them, and I carry the paper. Why would you want to carry the paper? Because I don't think they can afford to go get a loan for the amount of money that would be needed to purchase the home. So if they can't afford a loan...

Why would you want to be their bank? They're nice kids. They've never mistreated the house. We're getting up there in age, and so I don't need a serious amount of money for any particular reason. We live comfortably. We've been debt-free for, I don't know, 45 years. What's the house worth?

About $425,000 to $500,000. Okay, so if you sell it to them for $450,000 and you carry the paper, they're going to have payments to you, correct? Correct. And if they get a bank loan, they're going to have payments to the bank, correct? Correct. And the payments are going to be almost the same? Well, no, because I wouldn't charge them near as much. Banks aren't charging much interest now. You can get a 5% loan now.

Okay. If you charge them 2%, there's no difference in the payments. Not much anyway. Okay. Not much. I mean, they're going to have about the same payment in it either way, and if they can't afford to pay the bank payment, they're not going to pay you. How much are you renting it to them for? $900 a month. Okay. $900 a month won't support this house if you sell it to them.

No, but I could financially do it for $1,300 a month plus property tax. They'd have to cover property tax and insurance. Which covers about $160,000. And it doubles the monthly payment. If you put the monthly payment out there, let's say they put down nothing and you put a monthly payment on $450,000, you know that's not $1,300, right? I know that's not $1,300. I'm not that silly. I know, but I'm not calling you silly. I'm just saying...

You can't sell unless you sell them this house for 160,000. They're not going to have a $1,300 payment. Okay. So that's how that would work is I would sell it for less. Yeah. If you want to give them, if you want to give them half of the value of the house for free because they're a nice young couple, then carry the paper also. But, um, I think you giving them half the house for free because they're a nice young couple is probably enough of a gift. I think they go get their own mortgage.

Okay. Here's my problem, okay? They're used to paying for a long, long time way below market rent. Would you agree with that? Oh, yes. Yeah. And you're afraid they can't afford any more than that.

Well, I don't know if I'm afraid or if I've just not asked that question. Okay. All right. I guess I would find out their incomes and let's figure out how we can assist them. I'm okay with the idea of you giving them a deal on the house. I just don't want you...

putting them into something they can't do, and you turn a perfectly good situation, it's not perfectly good because it's way under-rented, but a perfectly good young couple, and we put a pinch on them while we were trying to do something good. You were trying to do something nice, but if you put them in a payment that strangles them, the net result is not nice. Agreed? Agreed. Yeah, so I really want to get into this and figure out how we can do this. So having said all of that, let's pretend...

that you find out that they can afford a payment on a price that you're willing to take for the house. What would you be willing to sell them the house for, price-wise? $350,000. Okay. All right. So you can sell them the house for $350,000, and they have a $3,000 a month payment, and you can either carry back the paper or you can ask them to get a bank loan. Assuming their credit is good enough that they could get that bank loan...

I would much rather you have the cash because otherwise you have a payment with someone who's used to paying $900, and now we've got them on $3,000 a month and three times as much. And then if it goes sideways, you have to try to foreclose on someone in California, which is dead come near impossible. Yeah. It's the worst state in the United States for a foreclosure.

So, Ed, your advice is for them to meet a set of priorities. Don't carry the paper. Don't carry the paper. Just get out of the business. If you want to give them a bargain, give them a bargain as you walk away. If you want to be a blessing to them and help them, and you do. You love them. You think they've been with you 20 years. You like them. They're a nice young couple. You don't need the money. So we're going to sell them a $450,000 house for $350,000. That's a deal. You're a generous, kind man, John.

I'm a thanks. And walk away. You better walk away. Okay. Yeah. Don't, don't, don't get, don't get yourself in a place where you end up having to be the bad guy after you were the good guy. Cause you won't be able to be the bad guy. You'll just get no money and they'll get, keep staying in the house. Yeah. It'll be squatterville. Yeah. I mean, cause California foreclosure laws are, yeah, it's, I mean, New York and California, you don't want to have to, you don't want to try to foreclose there. Yeah.

Very, very difficult. What about the other side of that? What if you sat and said, hey, I'm going to stay with this way, way, way under market rent? The renter, if they're in California, they're in a $450,000 house paying $900 a month. Mm-hmm.

At some point, if they're able to sock away the overage every month that they would be paying. So if they were able to put away. Yeah, you could help them. Just talk them into saving the other $2,100. Yeah, it seems to me that they get way ahead of. $24,000 a year. Yeah, they could do all right with that over time. $50,000 over two years. $100,000 over four. You put it down a good payment. And, you know, I'd give you an option to buy it from me later. There you go. And save up the money. There you go. But, um.

Something like that's fine. So in general, folks, if you have a paid-for piece of property, keep it and rent it or sell it. Because if you're renting it and it goes up in value, you're the landlord, you get the benefit of it going up in value, and you can raise the rents as the market goes up.

If you sell it to someone, you've locked in all you're going to get for it. The total price is locked in. It's not going to go up. They're going to get the appreciation and the monthly payment is locked in. It's not going to go up. So you're, if you're going to collect payments from someone on a piece of real estate, you're better off being the landlord than by being, than being the bank. So the chances of me owner financing something are zero.

I'll be the owner if I'm going to owner finance. Or if I want to get rid of it, I would rather take a little less and get the cash and be done. A clean break. Be over. Done. Finale. Over. Done. You know, it's just these things come back and bite you in the butt five years later, and you go, ugh.

And I'm afraid that's where he's going to end up. And part of that's just because he's just the nicest guy on the planet. And a great soul. That's right. Yeah. And that'll, yeah. I'm not trying to say you have to be mean, but he's just really nice.

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