You Can't Outearn Your Stupidity
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. George Campbell Ramsey personality,

YouTube sensation and newly minted best-selling author is my co-host today. His brand new book, I'm proclaiming it a bestseller. It isn't technically yet, but it will be. Breaking Free from Broke, The Ultimate Guide to More Money and Less Stress. And by attacking all of the

evil villains out there in the money space. George very carefully and with great craftsmanship unpacks all of the traps that you have to avoid and the people that are out there to get you and in the process gives you hope. That's the goal and the feedback has been amazing on that. It's exactly that. People are saying you've dismantled not only the myths but all of the objections that I've had

toward a debt-free lifestyle and the things that you've heard over 30 years, Dave. And I've heard them on the show as we take calls. And so what I try to do with the book was get in their heads before they could even say it and say, I know what you're thinking right now. I pay off my card every month. I've never paid a dime in interest.

We've heard all of these things over 30 years and what I wanted to do was not just you have some kind of emotional opinion but actually give you data and research and analogies and empathy and humor to help you understand why Your plan ain't working for you so far and a different plan that could actually work well And you clearly define I mean when we talk about it on the show here a lot what normal is normal sucks and

And if you're going to be normal, you're messed up. And Romans 12 says, be not conformed to this world. Don't be normal, but instead be transformed.

How? By the renewing of your mind. And you do that by putting information like this book in, and the result is hope. Yeah. And it starts with that paradigm shift, because why would you even attempt any of this Ramsey plan if you don't believe it's possible? And so when you start to think differently, the renewing of your mind, you begin to act differently. And when you act differently, and we see this on the debt-free stage, you believe that a different life is possible.

It's amazing the relationship between those three. I'm amazed people can run through a wall when they have hope. Yeah. And, you know, they can't cut paper. They can't find their way out of a wet paper bag when they have believed that the little man can't get ahead. They believe they're trapped. They believe there's no chance of winning because there's plenty of people out there to tell you that. Oh, it's so easy. You look at the headlines and it's easy to lose hope. It's the natural state of mediocrity and of loser talk.

And busting through the loser talk and, you know, getting I'm not going to live like this. I'm not going to live like this. And then you see a path. You see, I think I could go from here to over there. I actually see what George is saying. I think it's doable. And that's called hope. When you open up that path and it's a believable path away from mediocrity, away from friends and relatives that tell you it can't be done.

Well, and I was that guy. I was cynical. Back in 2013, as the guy who fell for all the traps and followed the path society told me, $40,000 in consumer debt, I was cynical toward adulthood. And so I actually end the book with a chapter called Ignorance Was Bliss, because I believe you know too much to still stay broke after reading this book. And so I tell people...

It's easy to be cynical. You can wake up every day and decide to be cynical. What's harder is deciding to be hopeful and choosing hope and then creating the habits that get you out of that mire that you've created. And so I tell people it's not all their fault, but it's their responsibility. No one's going to come saving you.

And so you've got to drop the victim mentality for this victor mentality. And it's not easy. It's not all woo-woo. It takes real action. Yeah, and part of the action is clearly identifying that there are some people out there operating in the world that do not have your best interest at heart. Hello. Their job is not to help you. Their job is to take stuff from you. And legalized fraud, you know. We're going to, you know, legalized horrible financial products.

And, you know, everything from the stupid timeshare, which is definitely legalized fraud, to the credit card point that nobody ever redeems. To the credit score that is the gateway drug into all of the debt. Yeah, which is, you know, that's worshipping the golden calf there. You know, the great FICO is now your provider. Oh, great FICO, we bring you offerings of stupidity and interest.

What's amazing, Dave, is that debt has not been around that long in its current form. Our obsession with debt, especially American culture. And so I actually walk through the history of the credit score and the history of the credit card because it gives us some perspective to go, wait, this thing was like invented by the 90s?

That's crazy. This wasn't around on a grandparent's day. They thought debt was shameful. The old American Express thing, don't leave home without it. Turns out Daniel Boone did. I mean, who knew? It's a fairly new thing. And you're right. And unpacking all of that helps you to break free from broke. The ultimate guide to more money and less stress.

and not because money keeps you from having stress but because having a plan and a belief system that leads you towards winning that will lower your anxiety level immediately even if your situation hasn't changed

a clear path that you know works, that you can follow. And I'm now on that path. I'm going to put my right foot in front of my left foot in front of my right foot in front of my left foot. And I'm going to take a couple of steps in this direction. All of a sudden your anxiety goes down, even though your situation hadn't changed yet. Absolutely. And you've talked about this day for years, that money is a tool, but for so many money is an obstacle. It's not a tool that they can use to build wealth and give generously. Instead, it's a stress point.

Not a blessed point. So that's the point of this book right here is to help you see money in a different way, help you create the actions necessary and give you the ick to go, I need a shower after understanding how this debt system actually works. And I now believe it's possible to live without it. What are two or three of the ugliest things you found in the things that these companies are doing to people? Oh my goodness. Well, I interviewed an ex Capital One manager who spilled the tea and said straight up Capital One,

10,000 experiments a year on consumers to keep them trapped. There is a reason why they move from cash back to points and rewards to try to confuse consumers, and they can devalue your points at any time if you don't play their game perfectly. So that was one piece. And the other was a Federal Reserve study that showed exactly where credit card rewards comes from.

$15 billion is moved, a wealth transfer, from the poor uneducated to the wealthy educated through credit card rewards. So for years, people said, well, Dave, my rewards come from transaction fees. Capital One's earning report says otherwise. 75% of Capital One's credit card revenue came from interest and fees charged to people who are broke. That's how you got that free flight. That disgusted me, Dave.

Wow. So you're participating in wealth inequality. Whoa, look at that. That one was for the social folks out there who are going, well, you know, if you're going to get on your moral high horse, there's an argument that's hard to argue against. And one lady even messaged me, said, hey, I had done the Ramsey plan, but we kept the credit cards. After reading that chapter, you convinced me to finally cut them up. I needed a shower after reading that chapter. And we decided we're done with this game. It's not worth being a part of that system.

Well, these goobs are not agnostic. They're not without belief systems. They have a belief system, and their belief system says, take all your money. Well, there's a reason Capital One sponsors the Taylor Swift Tour, and we can't afford tickets to the Taylor Swift Tour.

They are winning. You can't beat the house. The house always wins. So stop playing the debt game. Be free. There we go. The new book, Breaking Free from Broke, came out this week. You can pick it up anywhere that important books are sold, like RamseySolutions.com, your bookstore, Amazon, all those kinds of things. This is The Ramsey Show.

Jade Walsh, all Ramsey personality, best-selling author, is my co-host today. Her new quick read, Money's Not a Math Problem, hit the bestseller list last week. So, big deal. That's your first one on the list, right? Yeah, I didn't even know that that was possible with a quick read, so here we are. They sometimes will sneak on there. You never know. Good job. It's exciting. It's a lot of fun. It's a great book, too. Great read. David is in San Bernardino, California. Hi, David. Welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Hey Dave, thanks for having my call. Sure. What's up? Hey, so I've been watching your show since I was like 17. It's done me pretty good. Thank God. Um, I'm about 25 years old now. I graduated in 2021. Um, I paid off all my student loans and I just got myself back into debt by buying an investment property. Um,

I have about $75,000 in savings and $15,000 in stocks, and I was wondering if I should take that $90,000 and drop it into this first investment property to pay off as much as I can of it, or if I should drop it on a down payment for a second investment property. Well, if you've been listening to me as much as you say you have, you know the answer to that question.

That's accurate. I guess my question was, if I'm in an area where I know I'll have tenants, I know you always say you can't depend on them always paying your mortgage for you. But do I take that risk if I'm living with my parents right now, I don't have my own mortgage. Is it a risk that you would think is worth taking or is it just an automatic no?

I don't borrow money because I don't think it's a risk worth taking. And I have not for 30 years told anyone ever once to go borrow money for an investment property because I don't think it's a risk worth taking. And that's probably not going to change today, David.

What do you owe on the first mortgage, the one that you have, the rental? So I just bought it two weeks ago. It's a $400,000 property and I dropped 20%. So I've got, I think, $325,000 left on that. Yeah, I would definitely take this money. I'd probably cash out the stocks. I'd take the $75,000. I'd set aside three to six months of your personal expenses, keep that aside, and then I'd throw the rest at this mortgage and pay it off as quickly as possible.

Okay, that sounds good. I mean, the $90,000 I'm talking about is aside from any emergency fund. I've got that set aside already. David, there's three rules in business. It takes twice as long as you think it's going to. It costs twice as much as you think it's going to, and you're not the exception. And so you're all bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, and you act like you can automatically get a renter, and you're in an unusual situation so that there's no risk, and you're wrong.

There is risk. It takes twice as long as you think it's going to. It's going to cost twice as much as you think it's going to. The renters are going to pay half as much as you think they're going to pay and half the time when you think they're going to pay. And you're going to discover that real estate is anything but a passive investment. It's a very active investment. You have to be very actively involved or you're going to get your butt chewed up.

And the less debt you have, the higher the likelihood that you're going to survive investing in real estate, much less thrive. I hope he can afford that mortgage payment if he doesn't have a renter. Yeah. Otherwise, he's going to be up a creek without a paddle. Yeah. Yep. That's the thing. So, guys, I don't want to pick on Dave straight out of the chute here, but...

Let me just go ahead and I'll remind some of you that are fairly new to this place. Um,

If you come on here and you say, I've been listening to you for 10 years and you know what I'm going to say, don't be shocked that I say what you think I was going to say because it's kind of been the same. You're very consistent, Dave. Yeah. I mean, my pastor said, Dave, you're a one trick pony. You only have one story. And I said, well, so do you. One sermon. That's hilarious. So true. Been preaching the same thing. Oh.

Oh, there you go. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Natalie's in Los Angeles. Hi, Natalie. How are you? Hi. Thank you for taking my call today. Sure. What's up? My question is, my husband and I have been saving for a house for almost six years. Our plan we thought would be three to five years, but then COVID happened and everything and inflation, and we still aren't in a position where we can afford a house.

And so my question is, we have money saved, and I'm not sure what we should do with it because it's just sitting in the bank. How much do you have saved? We have about $90,000, and my goal is by the end of the summer, we'll have $100,000. That's awesome. So can you just drop it in a high-yield savings account, like one of those online ones? I mean, the rates are pretty decent right now. So how long would you suggest...

The high-yield savings accounts don't have a time on them. You can just drop it in there and kind of set it, just forget about it, and when you're ready to use that money, you can pull it out. There's no stipulation on pulling the money out. Oh, okay. I'm a little curious. What's your household income?

So we have like a very unique situation. We live in LA County. My husband is a school teacher. We live just on his income, but we don't pay any housing expenses. We manage a property. So I'm a property manager. What's his household? What's your household income? Yeah. So it's 57 a month after taxes and health insurance. Okay. So he's making $80,000 a year and you've saved about $20,000 a year for five years.

Right? Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. How much house are you trying to get when the time comes? I mean, at this point, it's like I'm not very picky, like whatever we can get. Well, you've got to be a little bit more specific than that. We're talking about prices and money. So what do you think you're going to spend? I'm not quite sure. We've kind of said maybe we'll leave the state, but we just haven't made that decision yet. You live in one of the most expensive real estate counties in the world. Yeah.

Yeah. And you make, you know, seventy five, eighty thousand dollars a year. And so that's what you've got to consider. I mean, L.A., San Jose, San Francisco, right. New York City, London, Tokyo. These are super expensive markets.

San Diego is not far behind, right? And so, you know, not telling you to move, but, you know, you may reach a point that what you get paid, you can't afford to live there. I mean, you can't, here's an example, okay? You can't make $50,000 a year and live in Manhattan and own your home, own your real estate, okay? It's not mathematically possible. So there are some things that you say, I can't afford to live there.

and have a house and have the dream that I want to do. And you're probably pretty close on this one. Listen, my sister-in-law was a teacher living in Los Angeles, and they decided that they moved to – first they moved to North Carolina, and then they moved to North Florida because that's how they were going to afford the house. But I do think that if you take some time and you guys do some research, look at different areas, look at different cities and states, and really –

create a clear picture for what you want because I think that you could easily I don't feel like there's a clear target so you're not really aiming at anything clear it's just home ownership but if you make a clearer target I think that you'll be more excited about saving that money and you'll be more intentional about actually getting to the goal. Well that's exactly true that's very true and you can start to make a decision about career path and you know where do we want what part of I mean maybe

I don't know if a teacher that works in L.A. County has to technically live in L.A. County. That's true. How much of a commute can we stand, in other words? Because L.A. is not unlike most other cities that the further you get out of town in most directions, the cheaper the real estate. It's not unusual.

It's basic ring theory of urban growth. And so, you know, drop a pebble in the center. And as you go, every ring you go out, other than you hit a lake or you hit a mountain where the prices go up, other than you hit a particular neighborhood that is known for its prestige. But other than those things, as you go out the rings, generally speaking,

For most of you listening, the further out in the country you get, the cheaper the property. I mean, it's a pretty simple concept, and I think most of us walking around know that. So you've got to decide that, and then the other thing you decide is do we want to live or can we make the life we want to make with the money we make in L.A. County? And if we can't, then you'll be one of those California refugees who ends up in another state. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Jade Warshaw, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Angie's in Salt Lake City, Utah. Hi, Angie. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hi, Ramsey. Thank you so much for answering my call. I'm 33 years old. I just graduated from grad school last month. I decided to embark on this journey of school January 2022. I moved away from home, Florida, to Salt Lake City to pursue the sport of ice skating while I finished my grad school program. I had the opportunity to just go to school and train while out there. I was not working early

Early throughout the year, my father passed away and it shipped my entire world. He left some inheritance, which helped me live through and continue my journey out there and train. My lease is now up and I didn't meet the goals or finish the projects I had in mind. Now I'm stuck whether I should continue out here or move back to my parents' home and recalibrate. Did you get the degree? Did you get the degree? I did. In what?

in my master's in business administration so why don't you go you'll get a job i am i'm in the process of doing that right now it's taking some time why and people are hiring everywhere say that again people are hiring everywhere you've got an mba for god's sakes i know i'm in the process of that why is it a process you should get a job

Right now? I am interviewing, exactly. Good. I'm interviewing right now. Where are you interviewing? I do have Goldman right now, Goldman Sachs. No, I'm talking about what cities? In Salt Lake City and Florida, Miami, Florida. Okay, good. And what do those positions pay?

Right now, in Salt Lake City, the cost is a lot lower, so they're not going more than $90,000. Okay, so you're a 33-year-old full-grown woman that's going to make $90,000 a year. Why would you even consider living with your mommy?

I know. They just, they came, they were like, listen, you have $200,000 in student debt. Like, if you just want to come and recalibrate, but I just don't. I think you've recalibrated enough. Yeah, yeah. Yes, my other option is whether to continue in Utah or move back to Florida due to the job market. You go wherever the job goes. Whoever's going to pay you the most money.

Go get you some money and a life, girl. It's time. Yes. It's time. Yes. I agree. You can't bob and weave and duck anymore. You get to face the whole thing now. You can do it. I can do it. You can. You can do it. I hear someone that's more capable than she thinks she is. Thank you. It hasn't been easy the past few years. Not at all.

I'm grateful for the opportunity. Just thought that, you know, if I do stay out in Salt Lake City, I'm having the opportunity to, instead of paying rent, come back. No, it's not an opportunity. Hey, what's wrong? You're hiding. What's messing with your confidence? Because you're scared. What's messing with your confidence right now? Yeah, really.

My confidence is the fact that I haven't defined the income yet. I'm still in that process, but I know I'll get through. I wouldn't even put living with mommy on the table, hon. Not even an option. I want you to go out there and lift some things and grow your back muscles so you've got a strong back.

Okay. You can do this. You can do this. But you've had different things come at you, and I don't think, Jaden, I know the whole story. I think there's a whole bunch of stuff back there. And then the thing with your dad, and then you've been over there in Salt Lake City, and then you graduated, and you went, oh, crap, I've really got to go do this now.

Yeah. Yeah. That's what happened. Yeah. And you do really got to go do this now. And here's the thing. You really can go do this. Getting an MBA is not an easy task. You just accomplished a big goal. Make a little mark on your little self-report card that says, I just did a big thing. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. I forget most of the time due to the fact that I do. I hate loans. I hate that. So it's just like having that under my name is just like, when am I going to finally pay it off? You're going to pay it off when you get a big old job and you work like a crazy girl and you get the stuff paid off.

And let's reframe how we're viewing this debt. Like if you look at a pile of debt and all you feel is fearfulness and, oh my gosh, I did this and da, da, da, da, you've got to really refuel that and go and reframe that in your mind and say, this has got to be the fuel for the fire.

Like I've got $200,000 of debt. I can't let it paralyze me. I've got to like lean into it and go forward because if you keep having that kind of off balance and I'm scared of it feeling, you're going to just make minimum payments and find ways to put it off and put it off before you know it, you look up and it's a bigger pile. So really let...

This feeling you getting those notices, this debt is due, let that fuel it. Do you understand what I'm saying? That's fueling your job search. That's fueling you moving to wherever the best job is. That's fueling you pouring as many payments and as much money into this as possible to get it paid off quickly.

Does that make sense? That makes sense, 100%. I don't want you running home. If you're my daughter, my daughter's not a lot younger than you, I would tell you the best thing you can do is strengthen your wings by flying.

And you're capable of flying. You're capable of soaring. You've proven that by getting your MBA. Take some confidence from that. Now go get a position. Get settled. Then go get a better position. Get settled. Then go get a better position. Get settled. And when you call me back, you're making $150,000, $200,000 a year. And you paid all this off. And, you know, you're 38 years old and you've slayed this dragon. And you can do it.

You can do it. Do not try to hide anymore. It's not serving you well. Go get them. Ronald is in Naples, Florida. Hey, Ronald, what's up? Hey, how's it going? Thanks for having me on the show. Sure. How can I help?

Yeah, I just had some advice questions. I feel like I'm on the right track, but I just wanted to hear it from somebody of stature, you know, other than my dad, who's an investor. He's got the mindset. He's a business owner. But you know how hard it is for a son to hear something from their father and take it 100% to heart, especially about money and options.

business decisions. But, um, well, I recently just had, um, my son, my very first son. Um, he just turned one a couple of months ago and I'm just trying to build a, uh,

basically a package for him, you know, for when he turns my age, he's got that cushion or that pillow behind him. I don't want to necessarily turn them into like, you know, waiting around for dad to die. So I get my money, um, because that's the way I was raised. I had a cushion, but I still, you know, I work a full-time job. I work 50, 60, 70, 80 hours a week sometimes to accomplish my goals. But

I just want to see if I'm on the right direction. I think you need to teach your son just like your dad did you.

You teach him to teach him to work. He instilled a lot of good core values in me. And I've had the same conversations with my dad. I spoke to him two days ago and he said, you know, I'm, I'm proud of what you're doing and you're going in the right direction. I just want to make sure I'm not missing any steps for my son. A big old pile of money is not what a grown young man needs. They need work ethic, integrity, uh,

honor, dignity, you instill those things in them, then they won't need money. They won't need money. And if you leave them money, then they'll take that money and do wonderful things with it if they have those character qualities. That's where legacy comes from. Absolutely, yeah. And so much of that's going to be them watching you do those things.

Yeah, it's hard to show them things like that, though, because a five-year-old, eight-year-old kid's not going to understand sitting and looking at a computer. Yeah, they do. They catch everything. Kids catch and absorb everything. You would be shocked and amazed. More is caught than taught. Yeah.

Well, it is my first time. My friend's got kids, but this is my first one. Hey, I'm going to send you Rachel. Rachel and I did a book together called Smart Money, Smart Kids. How to teach kids how to handle money and how to work and how to give and how to save and how to spend. And it was a number one bestseller. I'll send you a copy as my gift. And Ronald, you're a great dad. You're going to do good. Congratulations. This is The Ramsey Show.

This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. Hey good folks, the back-to-school madness is upon us. It's hitting us right now. We got travel and work and all these forms to fill out now and sports to travel to and on and on. My family's schedule is so packed and we haven't even begun talking about things like exercise and date nights and counseling and church and home projects. And those are the things that make our life even worth living.

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Jade Warshaw, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. The Ramsey Show Question of the Day is brought to you by Neighborly, your hub for home services. In case you're a new listener, what does that mean exactly? Well, Neighborly is a family of locally operated home service providers who are dedicated to giving homeowners excellent service. So,

So start your search today at neighborly.com slash Ramsey. All right, today's question comes from Robert in Minnesota. He says, Last year, against the wishes of her mother and I, my 18-year-old daughter signed a lease with an apartment complex. She committed to one year, but she never moved into the apartment. Fast forward a year later, and now she's getting calls from a collection agency to pay back around $9,000 for unpaid rent.

She is currently going to college, has no assets and no income. My wife and I are not willing to help her pay for this, but I'm trying to help her navigate her options. Any advice? Oh my goodness. I'm wondering why she never moved into it. Number one, here's the thing. She owes the money. Like she signed a lease. She owes the money. The best you could try to do is maybe try to settle it for less.

But she's going to have to pay this money back. She signed and said that she would commit to pay a certain amount of rent. They don't know or care whether or not she moved in or not. But because she occupied on paper that space, that's $9,000 of rent that that owner lost out on. So she owes it. And if you're her mom and dad, I feel like, Dave, you can ring in on this. This is where my brain goes. She's got some options. Number one,

Man, I don't know, Dave. I don't know if I would pay it for her. No, I would not. But I mean, like, even like to help her. No. Because it's only going to get. No. It's only going to get more. She's 18. She gets a job. Get a job and pay it. $9,000. I mean, come on. You can do it. It's a lot of money. It's not a lot of money. I mean, just go. I'm just saying to not. Go Uber your little 18-year-old butt off. Seriously. Door dash yourself until you can't walk.

Come on, really? $9,000? Go clean it up, baby doll. Now, help her navigate it. That depends on how obstinate and rebellious this girl is. She obviously was obstinate and rebellious when she went against your wishes. Is that what you called it? Yeah, your wishes. Yeah, he said wishes. You and your wife said, don't do this. This is stupid. So she lined up and signed up for stupid.

And now she's got $9,000 of stupid. And now if she's like, dad, I really screwed up and she's repentant. Right. Would you help me with this? Yes, I'll help you. Here's what you're going to do. You're going to work. You're going to, um,

You're going to scoop dog poop. You're going to walk dogs. You're going to clip dog's hair. You're going to babysit kids. You're going to do door dash. You're going to work all the time. You're not going to have a social life because you signed up for stupid and you get to cover it. And you can clean this up in, oh, let's just say $1,000 a month would be nine months. $2,000 a month would be four and a half. $3,000 a month would be three months. So I think you should do it in about three months, kiddo. Oh, man. I wonder why she never moved in.

Like, did she not realize that when she signed it? She's currently going to college. And who's paying for that? That's a question. That's a question. And is this kid still in this? I don't know what the attitude of the kid. Because here's the thing. I don't help people who are continuing down the same path. I don't even coach them. True that.

OK, in there, especially because it's not an act of love. It's an act of helicoptering. Here's what I'm writing checks is an act of helicoptering. And, you know, helicopters, you know, helicopters create snowflakes. That's where they come from. That's good. But here's what I'm wondering. Here's what happened. What if she was like, mom, dad, I'm moving into an apartment and they're like, we don't want you to do that. She's 18. What if she doesn't realize like, hey, if you sign the lease like that's legally binding?

And so she was like, oh, my mom and dad don't want me to move in this apartment. What she does realize is her mom and dad love her and they're smarter than she is. Unless you're a rebellious little twit. And then you go sign the thing anyway and you get to pay the stinking $9,000. True that. Because you're a rebellious little twit. And so you get to do it. I mean, guess what? You know how I know this? Because I was her. I was the rebellious little twit. You were the rebellious twit? I've done everything stupid under the sun that can be done. So I recognize these attitudes. Ha ha ha.

The question is, for me, and what we don't have, the information we don't have here is the state, her current state of...

Yes. Repentance. Repentance meaning I realized I was wrong. I'm sorry for that. I goofed up. Would you help me? Absolutely. I'll help you. Yeah. I'm not going to pay it, but I'll absolutely coach you and show you and give you hope. And I'll even talk to the people with you and stand beside you so they don't beat up a little 18 year old kid anymore. But if she's still like, well, I, you know, I didn't know what I, you know, shut up. You get to do the whole thing on your own then. Yeah.

All right. You just get to wallow out there and you're stupid if you're going to still be a twit, right? But repentant is different. You follow me? Yes, I am. I mean, she's going to learn this lesson. If she's already learned the lesson and only has to pay the bill, that's the easy path. If she hasn't already learned the lesson, it's going to get painful before this is done. Oh, man. And man, let her experience that pain at 18. Otherwise, she's 38 years old and thinks that the world owes her a lot.

a living after she got her degree in left-handed puppetry and she's a barista listen dave you and i saw this on two different sides because you went straight to rebellious little twit which i didn't you you own that and i'm looking at this here here's what i'm looking at okay when i was 18 here's how dumb i was but you were sweet

I did all right. When I was 18, I was dumb enough to think, okay, I got student loans for school. And you know, if there's leftover, they give it back to you called a refund, right? They call it a refund. It's not really a refund. You just borrowed too much money. But I took that money and I thought that I was buying a car in cash.

and I bought a car quote in cash with my student loan that's how dumb I was that's why I'm looking at this 18 year old and I'm like it was anybody looking at you that you that loved you and said don't do that no one no because when I told them I said I saved up this money well I know I'm so but if they had realized what you were doing they probably told you not to do that I would have stopped me yeah if they told you not to do it and you went and did it anyway that's then you're set and that's where we're sitting here they said don't

Do this. Right. But she may not have known that when she signed that lease, she was locked in. Come on. Dave, think back.

60 years. No, it's, yeah. Or 50 years. 50, thank you. But yeah, it doesn't matter. A lot of decades. It doesn't matter. No, I was already running businesses by then. So no, I knew what a lease was. Dave, you're smarter than the average bear, man. I'm talking about these. But hey, mom and dad looked at you and said, don't do this. It's a dumb idea. That's enough. That's true. That's enough. That's when you do full stop. That's when you do full stop. And if you don't, then you get to eat $9,000 worth of stupid. So, yeah.

I'm not saying she's currently rebellious. I'm saying at that moment she was. I think she was. This wasn't a sweet little interaction. It was against our wishes. Both he and his wife looked at their little daughter and said, don't do this. Dumb. Don't do this. And she said, I'm doing it anyway. Oh, man. That's funny. I think she was like, okay, I won't do it. And didn't know that she had to break. Because if she was a rebellious twit, she would have moved in.

realized after two months she couldn't pay the rent and then left. But I'm like, she never moved in. This is a mystery. This is Unsolved Mysteries. I

It's so fun. You get to be the daughter and I get to be the dad. That's the funny thing. I know, I know, I know. You're going to take up for the poor little kid. I know, because my dad would have been like you. I'm just hammering her. My dad would have been like, you're on your own. Now you know how Rachel was raised, okay? I'm just saying. Listen, she turned out great. This is how you create a Rachel Cruz right here, okay? Oh, my gosh. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Yeah, the trick is...

lovingly guide grown children. And when they're 18, they can legally enter into a contract. And if they choose not to take your loving guidance, then you are under no obligation to fix their mistakes. As a matter of fact, you would be making another mistake called enabling helicoptering to go and fix their mistakes, regardless of the person's attitude. So,

Now, I will always come along someone who admits that they made an error and says, ah, but now will you help me? I've always got a lot of mercy because I've been that guy, too. True that. True that. I need grace. I need lots of grace. And so I don't mind extending grace. But I'm not going to extend grace that says, oh, that was actually very smart when it wasn't. To the extent they don't learn the lesson. Right. Because it's not helpful. I get that. They don't. They don't. You know, if you don't.

If you don't learn the lesson, you get to do it again. If you flunk the test, you get to do it again. That is true. Then you just cycle stupid. Just a dog chasing its tail named stupid. I mean, you just cycle it. I've done that too. Not as much. Most of the time I do something stupid, it's only once. And then I move on to another new stupid thing. But wow. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people

build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Walshaw, Ramsey personality, best-selling author of the book Money's Not a Math Problem. She's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Dylan is in Orlando. Hi, Dylan. How are you? Hey, Dave. Thanks so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

So I've worked really hard and I've sacrificed a lot to pay my way through school. I've got one class left in my bachelor's and I plan to go on to attain my master's degree in business. I've saved up my money really well. My girlfriend and I live together and we've been together for two years and she's in her second of eight years to become a veterinarian. That's been our lifelong dream.

It's going to put her in about a $200,000 to $250,000 hole of debt. And the average income for that degree in the state of Florida is $114,000. To me, that's a scary amount of debt. And without waiting basically, you know, 10 years to have kids, buy a house, get married, any of those things, do you have any thoughts on how to minimize this debt? Or is it even a good idea to get into? And I can provide background on each of our finances as well if needed. When are you planning to get married?

I'd like to get married in probably two and a half to three and a half years. Why so long? Well, we've had a few ups and downs in our relationship, and it's been going pretty well. But I also want her to get some school under her belt before we go –

and figure out some other financial things before jumping into that with both of you. And I kind of want to have her grow with God a little bit more. My relationship with God is a little bit stronger, and her and I are growing in the faith together. But I kind of want her to get to a good point with God and with the idea of marriage before jumping into marriage because I want her to have a chance to really succeed rather than fail like more than 50% of marriages. Okay. So, Dylan, I hear you saying that you've got a point. You want her to be somebody different. Yeah.

You want her to grow with God? No, not necessarily. A little bit. I just want her to have an opportunity to grow with God rather than, because she hasn't had a chance to really meet God, only except for when she kind of met me. Is she a Christian person? She's a Christian person? And you've been with her two years? Correct. Okay.

I just, I'm just being honest with you. This is, I don't know you. I just met you two seconds ago. Listening to you talk, you have a version of her that you want her to be. We don't know how long that's going to take. And this is a financial thing. This is a spiritual thing. It also sounds like there's some things with her job that, again, you don't think it's a good ROI for her school, which don't get me wrong. I don't want her to go into debt either. But the things that you're describing could be

red flags or could be deal breakers. You said you've had ups and downs. Listen to maybe I'm wrong. And this is people can weigh in on this. I am of the mind that when you're dating someone to marry them,

It should be the best time ever. Like it should be easy and it shouldn't be this ups and downs. And I need you to turn into this person that listen, that happens after you get married. After you get married is when you're like, I need you to be different, you know? And so if you're facing that now, for me, that's that that could be some that could give me some pause is all I'm saying.

Right. Fair enough. And then other than that, because then it's like, OK, like when when couples who are dating are in therapy, I'm like, listen, give it up. Like you shouldn't be in therapy yet. So does that make sense? I'm just a little worried about some of the things you're saying. Yeah.

Don't get me wrong. It's okay to want someone to grow, but you have a three-year trajectory of growth that you think she needs before you can marry her. And that's scary. That's a long time. That's like you're waiting on someone else to grow up or something like that. I mean, she's 14 and you're waiting until she's 17. I mean, I don't know, but I mean, that's the way, that's kind of the, that's a long time.

Anyway, back to your tactical question. How can she go to veterinarian school for less than $200,000? Well, number one, it depends on where she goes to vet school because vet schools are like all other schools. There is a vast spectrum of what they charge.

Number two, 114 is the average, but I know a lot of veterinarians that make more than docs. The pet world is a big, expensive, crazy world now. What people spend on their pets, including the Ramseys, is outrageous. And so, you know, there's a lot of opportunity in that field because, again,

Americans' budget for their pet is crazy. So, yeah, I think a veterinarian is actually an excellent field to go into. I'm with you. I would try to limit...

or do away with the $200,000 in debt while I'm doing that. I would do that first with school choice. I would do that second with talking to some local veterinarians that have big practices that might chip in some scholarship money or whatever, and in return she agrees to work there her first year out or something like that. There's even the drug business in the animal world is massive.

And if one of those pharmaceutical providers has scholarships for vets in order for the vet to look favorably on them later, that wouldn't be unusual or unethical. And so I would be poking around on all those kinds of things to try to create money to move towards paying the bill, number one, and then number two, lower the bill by where we go to school.

and so forth. But I want to play with animals, and I want to go $200,000 in debt to play with animals is not a plan. That's a childish view of actually a wonderful degree, and I'm not sure which of those she's taking. I was not accusing her of that. True. But I have met people that since I was six, I wanted to be a veterinarian. Yeah, but when you were six, you didn't understand what it cost.

True. And when you were six, you didn't understand it involved poop. Lots of poop. Honestly, you need a shadow for that career. You didn't understand it involved blood and guts and animals dying and so on. They're not puppies. They're old and crusty when they come in. So you're not six anymore. Right. And so I'm guessing she has moved past that, but I don't know.

If we're blowing up a six-year-old's dream, that's fine. If we're blowing up a 24-year-old's dream and saying define it and approach your dream as an adult so it doesn't become a nightmare, that I'm in. Yeah. And we can go that direction. And so, yeah, I would do that. Dylan, I'm going to jump on one other thing because you walked into this, brother. I'm sorry. Did you say y'all were living together? I'm all ears. Did you say you were living together? Yeah. Did you say you're living together?

Yes, for financial reasons for her, she wouldn't have basically a place to live. See, there it is. You remember that God part? Yeah. Yeah, you remember that Bible that goes with that God part? I hear you. Okay. I felt like that was coming. Well, I mean, you...

Well, I got another one coming. I don't like that he's taking care of her. I don't like that. I feel like she didn't have a place to live, so I got to give her a place to live. She doesn't know how to do this degree, so I'm going to show her how to...

I don't like this. I'm sorry, Dylan. I'm talking about you, but I don't like this relationship. I want people who are equal and they see eye to eye. I feel like you're up here and you're viewing her down here and you're big papa who's got to take care of her. I don't like that. Pretty young to be a sugar daddy. This is the Ramsey Show.

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the number one cloud financial system. NetSuite helps you improve efficiency by bringing all your major business processes into one platform. So join the more than 37,000 smart businesses like Ramsey Solutions that have done the math and graduated to NetSuite. And right now you can download NetSuite's KPI checklist absolutely free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. That's netsuite.com slash Ramsey.

Jade Warshaw, Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. Big announcement today. This is going to be exciting. You guys ready for some fun? This is fun. Today we're announcing a brand new event, the Total Money Makeover Weekend. It is happening May 10th and 11th here in Nashville at the Ramsey Event Center.

There's millions of you out there who have been listening for a while and you're still sitting on the sidelines. No more sitting around. Time to take action. In just one weekend, you're going to get a crash course on everything we teach about money. You're going to hear brand new content from the Ramsey personalities on budgeting, beating debt, investing, and even more. And no matter what baby step you're on, this event will light a fire under your butt to keep making progress on your money goals.

There's going to be lots of live Q&As all throughout the weekend, so bring your questions. And something that's different about our events, they're actually fun and funny.

And with the first 500 tickets sold, you're going to get a copy of the Total Money Makeover for its 20th anniversary edition. And we're going to sign that, and I'm going to sign that, and send it to you. Don't wait. These are going to go fast. Early bird tickets start today at $99, but for a very limited time.

We're going to raise these ticket prices very rapidly. This is going to be a sold-out weekend at the Ramsey Events Center with all the Ramsey personalities, Dr. John Deloney, Rachel Cruz, George Campbell, Ken Coleman, Jade Warshaw, me. We're all going to be speaking. It's going to be a great weekend. You're going to leave jacked up, excited, and even tired from so much coming at you in one weekend. Again, early bird tickets starting today, May 11 and 10, 10 and 11 here in Nashville on the Ramsey campus.

Early bird tickets only $99. You can get them at RamseySolutions.com. The Total Money Makeover Weekend. We named it in celebration of the 20th anniversary edition of the book, Total Money Makeover, coming out. We've got a new edition of the book coming out.

Not a big deal. There's just a little bit of changes. We caught a few things up, but time to spruce her up every so often. So we're going to dress her up a little bit, put her back out, and then we're going to do this big event, Total Money Makeover weekend here in Nashville. It's going to be great. I mean, the lineup on this and all the different subject matter that's going to be covered, it's going to be a blast. All new content. Yeah. Completely new.

Good stuff. New content around old ideas. That's right. There we go, which is what we've always done, by the way. All right, Tyler is with us in Atlanta, Georgia. Hey, Tyler, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hey, thank you guys so much for the opportunity to be able to speak with you here. You too. What's up? So I'm 34 years old. I'm about to be going through a divorce, unfortunately. I'm sorry. How long have you been married?

I've been married almost seven years. I have two little girls together. Oh, man. So my question, as direct as I can be with it, is we've been...

I have bought into the baby steps in the process and everything that we've been working towards has, has been in line with that. And now with this divorce, um, it's kind of obviously thrown a big wrench in, into those plans a little bit. So what I'm trying to figure out is I, uh,

I purchased the home that we live in before we were married, so I know the house will stay with me. What I'm trying to decide, though, is I have about $71,000 worth of debt, and I have roughly between $200,000 to $250,000 worth of equity in the house. The plan was always to pay off the debt

sell the house and then use that money to build a house outright and become completely debt free. So my question I guess is, um, what do you make? I currently make 84,000 a year, but uh, within the next six months I expect that to be between probably a hundred to 120 based off of, uh, the incentives with the new company that I'm at. What is the 70,000 in debt?

I have $18,000 in credit cards. I have $30,000 in a truck. I have $10,000 worth of student loans. And I was previously had my own construction company, so I still have about $13,000 worth of debt related to that company that I'm working on. What is she driving? She is driving a vehicle that her parents had given to her. And it's paid for?

Yes, sir. Okay. How old are your girls? Five, and one will be four tomorrow. No, I would sell my truck. I wouldn't sell my house. Okay. Because that cuts your debt almost in half. Correct. And you make $120,000 a year coming up soon. You can pay off $40,000 in debt really fast as a single guy with nobody telling you what to do. Mm-hmm.

Right. So unfortunately, the $30,000 is what I owe on the truck, but I'm upside down in it. I took out a higher interest rate loan on it than I should have known better than to do. So I'm not sure how to get out. How much upside down? Probably about $9,000. That's okay. Go borrow the $9,000. You got any money at all?

I have very little saved up the transition from when I was self-employed to now working for somebody else. I had about a two and a half month period where I had very little income and that that drained a lot. So what do you have saved?

I have about $2,000. $2,000. Good. Okay. Good. So, yeah, you're going to get a loan for $9,000. If that's truly the difference, you're guessing because you haven't really looked it up because you didn't say. So I'm going to find out from Kelly Blue Book what the private sale value on this truck is, and let's get it sold. It is the biggest item in your situation, and it moves the needle the fastest, the furthest, and it's just a stupid truck. I would hold on to the house. I think the house is going up in value. The truck's going down in value.

Um, and, um, you know, part of what happens when you're going, when someone's going through what you're going through, um, I get it. We can even hear the sadness in your voice. There's a, there's a grief. And one thing that grief always does to all of us, um, is it, it cloud, we get clouds in the brain for a little while. And so Jade and I have the benefit of sitting here looking at your numbers, um,

Correct.

No, I'm not. I promise you I have no emotional attachment to the truck. It's a tough situation. It's one I didn't see myself in. I know, I know, I know. I was not, hey, dude, I'm not making fun of you, and I was not shaming you, either one. I'm just observing that any normal human being that's been through the three or four things that have hit you in the face in the last three years will be hurting.

You would be if you're not hurting, you're a psychopath. OK, right. And so, yeah. And in the middle of that, to me, it's very you want to just make all the debt go away. So the hurt goes away and selling the house seems quick and easy. Yeah, you can do that if you want to. It's not an immoral act or an unethical act at all.

So I'm kind of thinking those little girls' bedrooms, I'd like to keep them intact for a little while. That's what I'm thinking. Not at all costs, but if I can choose a truck over that, I'll choose keeping their bedrooms there. Yeah, I'm also looking back. He said he had 13,000 from his construction business. I'm wondering if there's some things that he can sell off.

to clear that a little bit if there's something maybe or there may be some negotiation with some of those vendors of pennies on the dollar because they don't think they're going to get paid true that you've got options yeah i i think you can plow through this debt pretty quickly if you got rid of the truck um and that's that's where i would go before i would go to the house in your situation rob but it's not wrong to sell the house i just think this other route might be better when you look back five years later this is the ramsey show

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Jade Walsh, all Ramsey personality, number or bestselling author. Money's not a math problem. The book just hit the bestseller list this week. Sorry, last week, rather. So she's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Jade and I and all the Ramsey personalities want to say thank you for the number of you that share the show. Subscribe to the show. Follow. Click, follow. Click, subscribe.

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We appreciate you helping us. Share the show. Leave a nice five-star review. Review the show. Share the show. Subscribe. All that kind of stuff. Melissa is in Paducah, Kentucky. Hi, Melissa. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hello. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Well,

Well, we started doing your program several years ago, kind of got off track. Now we've got our baby steps kind of all jacked up. Your baby's walking with a limp. Pretty much. It's like bow-legged or something. Okay.

So anyways, me and my husband, we were just trying to decide. I have a 401K that was started years and years and years ago by an employer. I'm no longer with that employer. I haven't really done anything with it. It's with stocks. It has grown some, not a whole lot. We haven't been putting in it because we've been trying to work on our baby steps. So then...

We got our emergency fund. We got like $10,000 in our emergency fund, and then we have $15,000 in this 401k. Our question is, we don't have a whole lot in credit cards. I hear some people, and I'm thinking, holy crap. But we just have like $5,700 in credit cards. What's your household income?

$75,000. Are you guys, you know, we're joking around about your baby and all this stuff, but are you guys really going to do it this time? Yes. Really? Yes. Yes, I have to. I have to. I have a daughter that's getting ready to go to college within the next year. Then let's line this up and do it exactly like we teach. Right, exactly. No flinching. Is the credit card dead it? What else is there? We have a card.

Yeah. How much do you owe in the car? How much is the car? $35,000. $35,000. And your household income is what? $75,000. You told me that. I'm sorry. And you have $15,000. And how much in your emergency fund? $10,000. Okay. Go ahead. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. And then you just got the $5,700 on credit cards. That's it? Right.

And our house is $54,000. Okay, but that doesn't come until later. So why can't you reach over with this emergency fund? Why can't you reach over, pay off those credit cards, and let's look at this car and see about downgrading it? And aren't you done very quickly after you do that?

Pretty much. We just didn't know with that 401K if we should, since we kind of did the baby steps backwards, if we should pull out of that. We're not going to worry about having done them backwards before. We're going to start going forward right now. Okay? Right now, if you started and you'd never heard of us before and you called us today, we would tell you to take everything out of your emergency fund down to $1,000 and throw it at your smallest debt. How much in the emergency fund again? $1,000.

$10,000. Okay, so we paid off the credit cards. Now, have you cut up the credit cards yet?

Yes, yes. You have? Yeah. All of them? I only have one. What happened is... Is it cut up? It is. It is. What happened is we had like three or four just little ones, and then we transferred them over for 0% APR for 24 months. Yeah. But you never paid it off? Didn't work. No, the 24 months don't end until December 30th. Oh, okay. So write a check today. Okay.

And pay off the credit cards. Now, what about the car? And then you need to sell your car. Okay. The car's too expensive. I've already been doubling up on the car. The car's too expensive. It's too expensive for you. You don't need a $35,000 car when you have a $75,000 income. You shouldn't have vehicles totaling more than half your annual income, and you do because you have another car. Right. That's the only one we have, though. You have one car? One car, yes. Okay. Okay.

Well, you're right at half your annual income. If you want to keep it, you can keep it, but I probably wouldn't. I think it's too expensive.

and I'd probably get about a $10,000 car, and let's pay that off as quickly as possible, and then you're debt-free everything but the house. No, we don't cash out 401ks. Besides that, here's a technicality. You can't add to a 401k from a place you used to work. You can only add to a 401k where you currently work. So that 401k you get with a SmartVestor Pro at Ramsey Solutions, and you roll it over to an IRA. You clean out your emergency fund. You get your car stuff straightened out.

I think you sell the $35,000 car and you buy about a $5,000 car for cash. To go quickly. Now you're debt free except your house. You build your emergency fund back up, then three to six months of expenses, and then you start investing.

And you can be wealthy then. And I mean, in five years, you're going to be in a way different position than you are right now. You can make this stuff move pretty quick, but you're going to have to just start looking around going, I want peace more than I want this car. I'd sell that car simply because they need to feel something like they've been down this road. They had a boat legged baby.

This is how you start walking right is when you feel it and you've got skin in the game. You know what I'm saying? So I think that's what they need. Yeah, I would. And the thing is, it's kind of,

It stands out in the situation. 100%. It looks weird. Yeah. You know, it's the only big thing laying there, and it's a car. And it's an out-of-balance car. So there's a lot of things that say sell it. I agree. I would if I were in your shoes. And it's not to say you don't get a nicer car later, but I wouldn't have that car.

And I would get rid of those credit cards today. I would not cash out the 401k. Nope. And we're going to use that rest of that $10,000 to get rid of this car and get you a five or a $10,000 car. And you pay cash for it as quick as you can or pay it off very, very in one or two months, that kind of thing. And then you're a hundred percent debt free, except the house. Then you build your emergency fund, baby step three, three to six months of expenses. Then you start investing in your 401k step for 15% of your income going in. And if you guys are serious about this,

I'm going to have Austin pick up and put you guys into Financial Peace University and sign you up for every dollar, the every dollar premium, and we're going to give it to you free. But if you're going to do that, you have to promise Austin you're really going to do it because I don't want to give it to you and you do nothing with it. Something tells me they're a single income family. Did we ask that? Something tells me there's room for somebody to start working more. Yeah, could be. Could be. It's possible. No, we did not ask that, but it's possible. Rob's in Ann Arbor, Michigan. Hey, Rob, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hey, thank you. Thanks for having me on the show. Sure. So I have a situation I'd like to throw at you guys and get your opinion. So I have a son who is a senior at Naval Academy. They're responsible. He has no debt, about $40,000 in the bank. And one of the benefits they offer the students is a low-interest loan. Yeah, that's a horrible benefit. It gets these kids in trouble all the time. We run into it in the military all the time. Oh, it's awful. Yep.

I surely agree it could be. What he's done, though, is taken that loan and he's dropped it to a 6% CD. And what he's going to do is when the CD matures is about the time the payments are due, put it in a high-yield money market and just draw off that fund to pay it back over the term of the loan. And looking at the numbers, he'll probably put $7,000, $8,000 in his pocket once the loan is paid off. Whoopi, $7,000 does not make you rich.

He's put a lot of risk at his footsteps. Oh, this is so scary. Now, there's so there's so much that can go wrong here and so little that can go right. If he does it all perfectly, he doesn't make anything to amount to anything. And so the Rob, the way I gauge stuff like this is I think, OK, when we interviewed 10,000 millionaires, how many of them said I borrowed money at low interest and put it in a high yield savings and made the spread? And that made me a millionaire. Let me help you out of 10,000 of them. Precisely zero.

This is the Ramsey Show.

Jade Warshall, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host. Kat is in Columbia, South Carolina. Hi, Kat. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up in your world? So, I just want to give you a little bit of background. I'm a graduate student right now, and I have usually been working three jobs at the same time while getting my degree so that I didn't have to take out loans for grad school. Good for you. What are you studying? I do have some loans.

Wildlife biology. Say it again. Wildlife biology. Oh, wildlife biology. Okay, cool.

Okay. Um, so I was able to follow your methods and I was working on getting my debt as low as possible because I did have some, um, student loans from undergrad. Um, but unfortunately, uh, due to recent life, I've had to pull a lot more out of my savings than I would like. So now I have about equal amounts of debt that I have to savings. Um,

And I hopefully will graduate in May, but there's no guarantee that I will have a job straight out of school because the market says flooded in my area. So I was wondering if you had any advice on which debt to focus on first and foremost. Okay. Have you got all the bills paid from now till May so there's no debt associated with the graduation?

No. So I have about $1,000 of tuition left to pay for this semester, but I paid all of the rest of it. And you have the money to pay the $1,000? In savings, yes, I do. Okay. Because I don't want to add any debt. That's the first goal. Yeah. Graduating with no new debt. And then how much debt is there now? So I have about $3,000 of student loans, which were originally paid off, and then Biden said he was going to refund them, so now I have to pay it off a second time. Oh.

Okay. And then I have $3,000 in car loans, about $300 in credit card debt that I've whittled down from about $1,000, and $300 in medical debt. Okay. Well, you're a hardworking lady. You've been busting your butt. I can tell by the numbers and the way you're talking through this, and you're really on top of and know your numbers. So that tells me you've been very intentional and concentrating. Congratulations.

Uh, so the, the long and the short is if you can graduate with no more damage and then make enough doing something until you land the big girl graduate job, uh, that you can eat and pay your bills. I want you to tread water till you land the big job and you should land it within a month or two. And when you land the big job, then we're going to knock this out very, very quickly. Does that make sense? Yes. And you have, you're telling me you got about six or 8,000 in savings. Yes, I do. Yeah. Yeah.

I'm not going to start your total money makeover until you graduate and start your job because it's only a couple months away. And I'm just going to sit there and let's make sure you graduate with no more debt. That's the big thing. Should I focus on trying to pay down the student loan debt before I graduate so that it doesn't accrue interest? If you have extra money.

But I shouldn't spend my savings on that, is what you're saying? That's what I'm saying. I think I want your savings there as a buffer to get you out of school. I mean, you've got two little ones. I'd write a check and get rid of those two little ones today. $600 worth, three each, right? Yeah. Yeah, and then you've got $3,000 on the other two. And I'd sit on that six and let's get on out of school and pay the minimum payments. And when you come out of school, as soon as you land your job, write a check. Be debt-free.

Okay. All right. But I'm worried if we whittle this down to nothing, then you're going to call me back and say, well, I almost made it, and then I took out a student loan. Yeah, that's what I was worried about as well, is not having anything to pay the bills when I graduate and may not have a job at that point. Well, you're going to get a job doing something. It may not be in your field, but, I mean, you're working now, so you're not afraid of work. And you could start applying before graduation. Right.

for some of the jobs in your area? I've been applying since October. Okay. I haven't found anything. Good. Okay. So what is your dream job with a graduate degree in? Wildlife biology. Okay.

I'd like to work for the state. I know that that's not very common, but I changed my major when I was a freshman because my mother passed away. And I figured that, you know, if life's so short, you might as well, you know, invest in something that you're going to enjoy rather than something that's going to make you rich. So that's really my job is to work for the state in wildlife biology and really enjoy it.

Okay. All right. Well, if you don't get on in South Carolina, it may be North Carolina, Tennessee, or Georgia, right? Yeah. I've been looking at other states, too. Good. So, I mean, you're going to have to make some choices there, because I want you to get the utilization of this degree that you've worked so hard for and paid so much for. And so let's get that direction as well. But I'm fine with just knocking out the little ones. Yeah, using cash, whatever she has left over to pay those off. I'm not mad at that.

Andrea is in Fort Lauderdale. Hi, Andrea. How are you? Hello. I'm so excited to be here. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

I am calling because my husband and I, we purchased in 2021 a one bedroom, one bathroom condo for 140, which is now worth about 230. Awesome. We have our first child on the way. Yay. And we're about $86,000 in debt. So we're eventually going to need more space. So we're thinking, should we sell and use the profit from the sale to wipe out most of the debt? Or should we wait? Because once the baby comes, I'm going to be at stay at home mom for a short season.

Or should we wait until I rejoin the workforce? And then, you know, once we're really needing the space, make that move. What's your incomes? Currently combined, we bring in about 80 to 90. How much of that is yours?

About half. I'm working part-time right now because I had it rough in the first trimester. Okay. But I'm feeling better now, so starting in February, I'm going to go back to full-time. So we should be at around 100 combined. All right. So a couple of options in my mind stick out. You want to be careful in whatever analysis you do that you don't analyze it through a child that is 18 inches long.

True that. They don't take up much space. Okay? So true. They take up a lot of emotional and spiritual space, but they don't take up much space for a while. They don't even use half the stuff that you get until later on. So, you know, you could live in the condo for a little while and just pay off the debt. That is a valid option. I know it's a one-bedroom, but...

But again, they don't take up much space. So lots of people have done that in human entities history. So then the other thing you could do is you could sell the condo early in your pregnancy because you don't want to be moving late in a pregnancy. That is not fun. You're going to be really unhappy if you're doing that. And that means everybody around you is going to be unhappy. So you can sell the condo, pay off all the debt and rent.

for a little while until you can build up some money for a down payment. So maybe rent for a year or more, and you could rent something that's a two-bedroom.

Because right now our mortgage with taxes, HOA and everything is about $1,400. And rent right now currently 2-1 and 2-2 apartments are going for about $1,750 to $2,000. Listen, if I'm you in that market, Fort Lauderdale is crazy. Miami is crazy. Oh, yeah. I'm looking at like what Dave said first off, that would be mine because your condo is only going up in value.

I would, you know, I'd sit there until the baby's a year old and then I would be, and I'd knock as much of the debt out as I can. Then I'd be selling it, knocking out the rest of the debt using the balance of the money for your down payment on your next deal.

okay that's what i would do i mean i'd have a bassinet in there and just deal with it yeah that's just about what we can fit we cannot fit a regular size group but a bassinet yeah we can yeah and you know again they don't take up a lot of room for a long long time i mean there's there's lots of more luxurious situations you can be in with a new baby but that's not a bad situation in their case though their condo could appreciate faster than they are saving a down payment oh that's

That's true. You know what I'm saying? Because that market's nuts. That market is bananas. You just spoke there. Well, you moved from there, but you spoke there at your old church last weekend. I did. Church by the Glades. Yeah. Yeah. Big Dave's Church. So there we go. Not this Dave. The other one. The other one. There we go. You've worked for Dave a lot. I do. That's what I do. Collect Dave's. I love it. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people

build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Best-selling author Jade Walsh, y'all. Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Her new book, Money's Not a Math Problem, a quick read, 74 pages long. You'll be through it before you know it. Hit the bestseller list last week. So she's an official best-selling author, just like that.

The phone number here again, 888-825-5225. Carl's in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Hey, Carl, how are you? Oh, I'm doing good. How are you, Dave and Jade? Better than we deserve. What's up? I have a question or looking for advice. I am recently engaged. Oh, congratulations. When's the wedding? Well, June 1st.

21st or 14th of 2025. A year and a half. Wow. Okay. Her little brother is getting married right before us, so we took it easy on the family. I'm trying to get a realistic idea of what to spend on a wedding. It's driving me insane. I think everything is astronomical right now.

But she's also the love of my life, and I want her to have her day. Bar none, you know. You're trying to fight against your natural cheapskate tendencies. Correct. You called that, dude. So who's paying for the wedding? Our parents combined, luckily, are giving us...

$8,000 as a wedding gift, like just to pay for that. And I am responsible for the rest. She's not, she, does she have a say so as well, or is she contributing? Um, I'm sure she could, but I feel like as, as the guy provider, quote unquote, and no one's home fashioned. And old fashioned is her dad pays for the wedding is old fashioned.

I think she can help. Yeah, and he's not. They're giving you $8,000. Okay, so what do you make? Wait, let me real quick say, I just want to say, it's both your weddings. It's not her wedding. So there you go. Yeah. This is not your gift to her. That's right. This is you guys getting married. So what do you make? $110,000. What does she make? $55,000. Okay. All right. And how much debt do you two have, each of you?

I have $14,000 in credit card debt and I have $235,000 left on my mortgage. Okay. Cool. And how old are you? 30. And how old is she? She is 28. Okay, cool. Does she have any debt? She has $22,000 in a student loan. Okay. All right. So $14,000 and $22,000 are one of our targets. The other target is the wedding budget. Okay.

and laying that out, and all three of those things should be gone during this year and a half. Okay. And she should be taking care of the $22, you should be taking care of the $14, and then the two of you add to the $8 to get to the wedding budget. Has anyone discussed any numbers as to what you all think you would spend on the wedding? Well, yes. I said...

I would like to be under 20 because I think that's astronomical. I think that's insane. Mm-hmm. I don't mind your budget, but it's not astronomical or insane. The average wedding in America last year was 29,000. That was the average. So astronomical and insane would be double that. I...

I think you guys need to get tactical because it sounds like you're kind of pulling these numbers out. You both need to be on an every dollar budget and let's get tactical and find out. Okay, like Dave said, if you're paying off your debt, which was the 14,000, what would you realistically have left at the end of every month?

after you've paid that debt off to set aside for the wedding and then do the same thing for her so that you guys can actually arrive at a number. Because at the end of the day, the wedding can only cost what you can afford. Is she living at home? No, she is living in my house, soon to be our house. Okay. All right. Well, I would like for her to use her 55 and clear her debt. I would like you to use your great income to clear your debt and add to the wedding budget. And if 20 is the budget, then you need 12 more, right?

Correct. But that's not an astronomical number. It's not a bad number. It's a nice wedding. And I know people that get married for half of that, and I know people that spend 5x that. So there's not a moral construct here.

But I think if you set the wedding budget at 20, you put in the 12, which is kind of was your intent anyway in this call, and you make double what she makes, and you've got half the debt she's got. So that's okay. All of those things indicate you could fund that 12. You knock your 14 out, fund the 12, she knocks out her 22, right? Yeah.

Correct. I'm in for that. And then we do a $20,000 wedding. Okay. If $20,000 is the wedding budget, the two of you need to already start breaking that down because that is a vague number to Jade's point. Mm-hmm.

Yeah, like if you haven't called some places and you haven't sat down and talked to her and been like, hey, what are your thoughts to really see? Yeah, in other words, this is a project. Yes. And you manage it like you were building a house. You have a line item budget. Yes. We've had three big weddings at the Ramsey's.

years ago, and the best thing we ever did was we put a number and then we backed into a budget. So, okay, on a $20,000 wedding, that means the dress budget is X, whether that be $1,200 or $800, but it's somewhere around there. That means the reception, which is the most expensive thing typically, is Y, and that means the photographer is Z. Yeah.

And each of these numbers, you know, and the church or the venue is going to be, you know, A or B or whatever. And with $20,000, you're going to have to be really clear on what your priorities are. Is it the venue? Is it the food? Is it the dress? Like you have to, you're going to pick one or two top priorities and everything else is going to fall in line. I've seen people spend 20 grand on the flowers. That's right. So you're going to have to say the flower budget is $20,000.

whatever it is right and you got to set that out and and then you when you're sitting down with the caterer and they have the little tasting thing yes before you decide what the is going to be served at the reception you go uh like father of the bride we're having the cheaper chicken i know that's right when you start seeing how much it costs per head you go you'll lose your mind you'll lose your mind yeah

And tactically, just think about it like this. One last little tactical thought. Sometimes you think about, oh, okay, I'm going to spend $20,000 on a budget. And once I have $20,000, I'm just forking it over. No, you got to be thinking about what chunks of money you need to have ahead of time to put deposits and things like that. So really sit down and plan this out because you don't want to have any excuse to

to go into debt, even if it's temporary. If you do not have this line itemed out, 100% of the time you'll go over budget. That's right. Every time. Because you'll be in the heat of the moment and you go, that's the dress. The heat of the moment, I want to upgrade and do this level of videography. The heat of the moment, I love this particular little appetizer. And all of a sudden, you're spending 100. They go there in a heartbeat, man. This is the Ramsey Show.

Jade Walsh, our Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. She has one of the three new books we just put out, all of which have hit the bestseller list, or at least we think Georgia's has. We'll know next week.

Rachel's new book, I'm Glad for What I Have, a children's book about contentment. Our first ever illustrated kids book by Rachel. Perfect to help parents spark a great conversation with their kids on contentment. Breaking Free from Broke with George Camel. We launched that book this week. We'll know bestseller list and so forth next week on it. It is selling very well. Bless you. Excuse me. Thank you. Thank you. Wow.

And great data in that book. And in Jade's book, Money's Not a Math Problem. It's a 74-page quick read and hit the bestseller list last week. So all three of these new books are available along with many other wonderful things at RamseySolutions.com. Check out the store. We'll help you out. It's what we do. All right. Heather's in Nashville. Hi, Heather. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hey guys, thank you for taking my call. The question is, should we stop saving for Baby Step 3B in order to fund for my husband to make a career change to be a pilot? Interesting. So not buy a house, instead be a pilot for now? For now, yeah. How much is it going to cost for him to be a pilot?

It's what we've seen, what we've looked at. It's been about 80 to 110. Cool. How long would that take to save up that money? And what are the chunks that you need it in? The reason we're considering stopping is so we can try to get him through in about a year, year and a half. Okay. Neither answer is wrong. It really is just you guys looking at this and deciding what your priority is. What does he make now?

60, 65. Okay. That's about what he'll be making as a starting commercial pilot, too. That's after he's gotten enough hours to fly a jet commercially, which I don't know if you're going to get that many hours for 80K. Do you? For 80,000? Yeah, we thought so. Between 80,000 to 110,000, yeah.

Okay. That's a lot of hours to get commercial jet certified. I don't know. I mean, if you get there, that's fine. But you're going to spend that for him to make about what he's making now. Starting. Now, eventually, he can fly the big boys and he can make double or triple that. Sure. Right. But you don't start in those. Sure. Right. Of course. What's he do now? He's an electrician. Do you guys have kids? Yes.

No, no kids. And what we were thinking was we were trying to take advantage of the cheap rent we have right now while pushing him through school. I mean, I have limited knowledge, only what you told me, but I'm thinking to myself, okay, there's not a big press. It's not like I'm busting at the seams with my home and I need to buy a house. So there's part of me that's like, okay, maybe this is a great time to pursue this. What do you make?

I make $70,000, $85,000. Okay. And so you've got $130,000 together. He stays in his job while he's in pilot school? Correct, yeah. And you guys have how much saved towards the $80,000 or $100,000 already? We have nothing saved. We're flowing it as we put him through school. Okay. Cash flow. Okay. So you've already started then? He's been trying it, yeah. He's only done like three or four flights.

Okay. This is not, yeah, it's not a technical school. It's just him picking up hours with flight instructors. Yeah. Okay. So before you make the rest of this decision, I think you need more detail than you have. I mean, I know a tiny bit about this, enough to know that you guys have not run this all the way down.

And so what I want you to do is I want you to detail out exactly where he's going to go to school, exactly how many hours he's got, and exactly how many jobs are out there and what they're paying. I talked to a commercial pilot yesterday that was on the Millionaire Theme Hour, and he was making $300,000.

And I asked him what a junior level starting pilot was making right now, because you typically go in flying the regionals like an American Eagle or something like that. And he said they're starting at 65.

That's yesterday. So that information I know is correct. And the only other thing I know is it takes a lot of hours to be certified, not only fly jet versus prop, but also to fly jet commercially and have passengers whose lives are dependent upon you. So I want you guys to really get that dialed in exactly.

Right. My understanding is that our understanding is it takes about 1,500 hours to get to that first job. Yeah. His instructor was... And I don't know how you get 1,500 hours in one year. Listen, if you can... Year, year and a half.

I don't know how you do that. I think you really got to sit down with a school that says, here's how we're going to map that out. It's going to be this many hours this month, this many hours that month. And here's the cost exactly. And then the second piece is I'm going to get on the other side of that and I'm going to line the job up to where I know what I'm going into. And, um,

And so because most of the pilots I talk to, the people wanting to do what your husband's wanting to do, are addicted to flying. It's an addiction. And they will do almost anything to do it, including lie to themselves about what it costs and how long it takes and what they're going to make. So, like, I'll give you an example. I'll bet your husband doesn't believe he's only going to make 65. Right.

Yeah, he probably thinks he's going to make more. He probably thinks he's going to make 130, and he's not. Okay? I just talked to the guy yesterday, Heather, so I'm not making this up. He's a commercial pilot, been a commercial pilot in the big jets for 20 years, and he's a millionaire now, but he said that isn't where it starts.

And everybody talks about that's, you know, you just start there and you don't start there. You might start there or close to there if you come out of the Air Force. But going through flight school the way your husband is, no, you're not going to. I'm not riding on a plane with somebody who's only been flying one and a half years. Yeah, you have. No, don't tell me that, Dave. Oh, gosh, that's scary. You've got 1,500 hours. She's right about that. You've already done that. Oh, wow.

Uh, yeah. I need my pilot to have been in the air force. And then he turned around and decided to fly. Haven't you gotten on one of these regionals and noticed that these kids look like they're younger than your socks? Listen, I try not to do it. Oh, they're there. I'll tell you. I have. I need, I need my pilot to have some gray hair. Good luck with that. Glasses. Looks like Opie Taylor. His name is Mike. Like I need somebody who's been in it for a while. Ooh.

Not a year. Don't tell me that. It's okay. They're competent. They're fine. They're just young. And they got quick reaction skills because they're young. So that's good. You want them up front. Listen, the person. I don't know if you want the codger up there. The person driving the plane and the person delivering the baby needs to have gray hair. That's all I'm telling you, Dave. Those are two areas where you want an old guy. You don't want Doogie Howser as your OB? No, I don't want anybody who's younger than me. Okay.

Oh, my gosh. I love it. I love it. All right, Heather, more detail, and then, yes, go your plan. Run your plan out. But base your plan on facts, not wishes of someone who just loves to fly.

Okay, because there's something that is about flying, about, you know, as a friend of mine who's a pilot says, when you're landing, it's actually a controlled crash. And so he said there's something about that is just thrilling and fun and addictive, and people tend to ignore the economic realities of becoming a pilot. And so you want to really get into that and actually know exactly, talk to pilots,

major airlines and say, are you hiring? And what's the, what's the rate coming in? Learn what that is. What am I going to be entering at? And then lay the flight school out to get the 1500 hours. If that's actually what it is for the certification, I'm not positive you are, but,

But I'm not. And so get all that laid out exactly. And then, yeah, go do it. I think we're endorsing the plan. We want you to plan it in more detail so it is an actual plan and not just a dream. Yeah. And I think you're close. You got some of the stuff gathered, but I also think you haven't dug it all the way out yet. And then if you're willing to wait on your house for your husband to become a pilot, then that makes you a championship wife. Way to go. That's cool. This is The Ramsey Show.

James is with us in Miami. Hi, James. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Thank you. Thanks for having me. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hey, I've been following you guys for a year. Appreciate everything you do. I want to find you. I feel kindred to how you guys think about money and debt. I'm in a really good spot. I'm 37. I have a net worth probably about 1.3, two properties.

Um, each of those properties does have a mortgage. One's at 200, one's at 250, my primary house. The other one is rented at a pretty good profit. Um, I, my life circumstances have changed a bit. I had twins, um, you know, and thinking about, uh, yeah, I've had a couple, a couple of blessings come into my life. Um,

Ganges things, life obviously had to stop working. But right now I'm at a crossroads where I'm debating what to do. I've seen all the money we've printed and inflation and definitely a little bit, I have money invested in the stock market.

I'm pretty cash heavy at the moment and debating what to do with that cash. Do I have 3.75 rates on both my properties and 25 on one and 20 years left on the other? No, no other debts, no credit card and got rid of all my, paid off all my student loans, paid off all my cars, pay cash for pretty much everything. Now I put in solar, paid cash for that. What's the balance on the mortgages?

$200,000 on the rental property. That's cash flowing about $1,200 a month. And that's after paying the mortgage and all that. And then $250,000 on the house that I live in. So how much cash are you sitting on? Cash, so outside my IRAs, IRAs are at about $450,000. My actual cash on hand is, flush cash is about $80,000 with another $50,000 kind of just invested in the market.

So I'm debating, do I, you know, I'm thinking there might be a dip. Do I leave it there? I also have $225,000. Florida has a prepaid thing for future student loans for your kids. So I'm on a five-year plan with those. I could pay them off if I want. You know, I can pay off my property. I can start to put, I cash flow probably around 15 a month. And what do you make a year? What's your personal income?

About $350. Okay. James, you've done extremely well. Congratulations. Thank you. I mean, what a beautiful job you've done. Thank you. You know, the only point that our discussion would have with you is not to help you become a millionaire. You already did that, okay, and not to help you do that. It might be just that, you know, I'm sitting here with the buildings I'm sitting in, for instance, are –

about 600 million in value roughly. Okay. And they're paid for. And so, and that's just a portion of, I mean, that's the larger portion of our real estate portfolio, but I've got a bunch of other real estate. I love real estate. And of course we, I own Ramsey solutions as well, which has a value and so on. So I'm a few years ahead of you is all I'm saying. I'm not better. I'm just ahead of you. I'm older.

Dadgum, they're twice your age. And so you've just done extremely well. So if I were talking to you, and I really don't know exactly what you're asking, I would probably just give you a couple things I would do, and that would just be fine-tuning a –

an engine that's already running really well. Okay. This is not, the car's not about to blow up. You're not about to bankrupt. You're not doing anything stupid. You know, you're doing a whole lot of smart things. So I have found, and you listen to us for 10 minutes, you know, this, that the less debt I have, the more peace I have and the better my cash flows are.

And the lower my risk is, thus the peace is up. Less anxiety. So, you know, for instance, this building, we have a pandemic hit. I've got 1,100 team members that are on payroll. I want to make that payroll. I don't have to pay myself the rent.

because there's no mortgage on the stupid building. So I don't have any stress. So that's an extreme situation with more zeros on it, but it still outlines the idea that first thing I would do if I were in your shoes is I'd start working towards getting my home paid off without cashing out any retirement to do it. Then the next thing I'd do is I'd pay that rental off. Okay, so pay the house first, then the rental? Yes, yes. I want my personal residence where I sleep.

to have zero mortgage. There is more than just math and investing going on here. There's a spiritual element to this, a psychological and a relational element to this. Your wife will feel different. You will feel different when you lay your head on the pillow. You don't think you will, but when it is paid for, you will.

Okay. So my one, my one counter to that, and this is, I guess the next point of information is I'm debating. So my, I bought my house back in 2012, so I have it at a great interest rate and a great value. Um, the, the other thing is if I ever wanted to, now that I have twins, which I have plenty of room, I have enough room, 21 under square feet, um, four bedrooms. So there's enough room. But when family comes to visit, my parents are getting older, our parents are getting older.

People are coming to stay for longer than you maybe want. A paid-off house will sell as quick as a mortgaged house. I'm not thinking about paying it off. I'm thinking about expanding it. Okay. Pay it off and expand it with cash. You make $350,000 a year. Okay. So what's happened is you hit a plateau and you quit pinching every little nickel. And you relaxed a little bit and it's gotten a little sloppy.

Okay. It's what I'm seeing. I might be wrong, but if I were you, I'd pay off your house. I think you've been working so, so hard putting your head down and plowing forward to hit whatever the goal was. And you've gotten there, and now you just need another very clear goal to keep you motivated. And the only other thing I would do is I wouldn't do Florida prepaid college. Yeah, that's garbage. I would just do good mutual funds and a 529. Okay.

A lot more flexibility, a lot more options to do for college, and you can make a much better rate of return than prepaid college. Anytime you prepay something, James, your rate of return is the inflation rate of the item. Tuition inflation rate's been about 8% for the past two decades, and so you're making about 8% on your money. You could do better than that in a good mutual fund, and you'd have more flexibility. So I would move the prepaid stuff into a 529. Again, a minor tune-up.

Paying off your house, minor tune-up. And paying off the mortgage on the rental, minor tune-up. Somewhere in there, cash flowing the expansion if you want to expand or change that house that you're living in. Any of that's okay. But you keep going back to the mortgage interest rate. I don't give a crap what your mortgage interest rate is. Mine's zero. You can't beat my rate. And you can't beat the cash flow I've got on our properties. They cash flow like a bandit.

And I don't think about my home at all. It doesn't come up in my financial brain. It's just a really calm, safe place to go sleep. Yeah. You know? And it just changes everything. Because I've been debt-free on the house for so long that it just – my spirit doesn't even connect to that. I can't imagine how I would –

you know, how I would sleep if I had a mortgage. Yeah, I could see that. Now, because I've been doing it for so long. So that's all we would do, James. But again, you're 97% on board with what we would do. Those are just a few tune-up things and way to go, hero. I mean, you killed it. 37-year-old millionaire. Man, excellent. Well done, well done. And did it from nothing, starting from nothing. Didn't inherit it. It's not a...

Not a rock star, not an actor, not an NFL star, not to our knowledge anyway. And if he plans on buying more real estate, obviously cash for that. Yeah, pay cash after you get the other stuff paid off. And you could build a really large portfolio 10, 15 years from now of real estate if you fooled around with this and have it all paid for in the process and pay cash for it as you go. It wouldn't, you know, once you clear these two properties. So that's what we would do. You do whatever you want. You're obviously not a dumb guy. So well done. Well done, hero. Proud of you.

That's very cool. Those guys are everywhere. People that have done smart stuff with money in a culture where most people spend like they're in Congress. Oh, yeah. That's normal. Go into debt. By the way, don't miss $350,000 income, $1.7 million net worth. Yeah. 37 years old. 2,200 square foot house. Yeah. Don't miss that. He's living below his means. That...

Not 8,300, 2,200. Living on the lesson he makes. This is the Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, Psalms 145.8, the Lord is gracious and compassionate, slow to anger and rich in love. Thomas Jefferson said, if angry, count to 10 before you speak. If very angry, count to 100. Okay, Tyler is in Michigan. Hey, Tyler, welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hi, thanks for having me. Sure. What's up? So my wife and I, we came to the realization and knowledge that, hey, we don't want to be in debt anymore. And we have an obstacle that's kind of in our way hindering our get out of debt plan. So every three months we have to save up for a custody exchange where we have to travel two states away.

And that's about $400 to $500. So how do we navigate that in saving up our emergency fund as well as paying off our debt? I think it's just something that you're planning for monthly throughout your budget. Yeah, if you had a $500 electric bill, it would be the same thing, right? Yeah. Okay, so how would you do that? Well, you're going to manage your budget, meaning we're going to cut expenses all over the place, and we're going to do anything we can to get our income up.

extra jobs and overtime and or new careers. So what's your household income? Last year we made $68,000. Okay. All right. And how much debt do you guys have? Together between cars, credit cards, and personal loans, we're at $42,000. And how much of that's car? $30,000. One car? Two cars. Okay. I mean, one car that's $30,000? No, sorry. Between the two, sorry, that's

That's both up. Between two cars. So it's 30,000 and it's the breakdown of that is what? So one car is 12, nine and the other one is 11. Okay. About half and half then. Okay. All right. Yeah. If I'm you, I'm just plugging these numbers. I'm guessing this is you driving to another state. So this is gas food. Are you staying overnight one night? What is it?

My wife and I, we turn and burn. We try to cut expenses as much as possible. Like, we'll pack sandwiches and stuff. But, yeah, mostly food. We'll stay at a relative's house if we need to. That kind of stuff. Mostly gas. Okay. And car maintenance. And whose children are these? Yours or your wife's? My wife. Your wife's children. Okay. And how old are they? Oldest is 10. Youngest is 3. Okay. All right. Well...

So here's the only hope I can give you on this. Here's the light at the end of the tunnel. If you'll continue to work extra, tighten your budget, clear these debts, if you had a larger income and no debt, this would be much less of an issue, obviously. No kidding, right? But the point is that if you'll work for a couple years here and get these debts cleaned up,

and in the process of that, review your careers and say, where are we going with our careers? And you get your income up, which most people do throughout their life. That's a fairly standard living process, right? But let's pretend two years from now you've got a household income of 80 and no payments but a house payment. All of a sudden, this is a different discussion, right?

And so it's really not what's killing you. It's all the other stuff that's killing you is my point. It's highlighted because it's an emotional thing that you're doing, and it's draining to drive two states over. Yeah. Yeah, we have a plan to use our income tax this year to go right towards crushing a lot of the high-interest debts and the smaller debts. Great. Have you changed your withholding so you don't get a refund anymore?

Have not done that. You're expected to get a refund. Yeah. I would change that because having that money in your monthly cash flow every month is going to be of way more value to you. Yeah. Especially with this situation. A refund just means too much is coming out of your check, in other words. That's not something we knew about. Yeah. So what's your refund typically? Right now it's close to eight. Okay, cool. Yeah. So we're talking about 700 bucks a month.

Yeah. That's pretty substantial. No, it's not. Yeah, it's $700. Oh, yeah, it is. That's a lot of money. Yeah. That would clean up a lot of stuff right there. So, yeah, let's look at changing your withholding. If that's been your refund every year...

bring home that $700,000. And as Jade said, you'll still get the $800,000 from 23 when you file your taxes in 24. But go ahead in 24 and set it up where you don't get a refund next year. Instead, you get the money now because all it is is an interest-free loan to Washington, D.C., and then they give it back to you and act like they did you a favor. Yeah, so very cool. I think you're going to see some progress here. Hang on. I'm going to have Austin send you a copy of the book, The Total Money Makeover.

And a copy of Jade's new book, Money's Not a Math Problem. You guys read through both of those and see if it doesn't help you get some traction on these things. Christine is in El Paso, Texas. Hi, Christine. How are you? Hi, good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Thank you for taking my call. I'm calling because I'm 53, so I'm late to your method. The question is, after I finish and get to the investment stage, at the point in my age, should I be investing more than 15% into investments? Do you have a house payment still? I do, yes. No, you should put 15% because we need to get you at retirement with an ISTEG and a paid-for house.

Okay, so first I will pay off the house, I'll pour all the extra money into that. No, baby steps, okay, you're debt-free except the house. You have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. Then we do baby steps four, five, and six at the same time. Four is 15% of your income going into retirement.

five is kids college if that even applies in this situation six is we throw my extra money at the house and try to get the house paid off typically people will pay off their homes in somewhere around seven to ten years from the time they start okay which would put you at a paid for house at retirement gotcha what's your household what's your income my income 115 great are you single

Yes, I am. Cool. So if you'll drop into an investment calculator, sit down with a SmartVestor Pro, you're going to find $20,000 a year going into good mutual funds for 15 years is going to give you a really nice nest egg.

Okay. I am starting very late, so that was my huge concern is that I will never be able to retire. I want you to do it because you are starting late, but if you do it, if you put 15% of $115,000, $20,000 a year into good growth stock mutual funds and your 401k and Roth IRAs, and you do that for 15 years, you're going to have substantial money.

And you're probably going to be doing, think about that, what Dave said, you're probably going to get to that sooner. Like, for instance, if you pay off your house in the next seven years, it won't just be 15%. It'll be more because after you pay the house off, you'll be adding more. Yeah, you can load more and more and more in then. Yeah.

But, I mean, in 10 years, you're 67. So we want the house paid for. Absolutely. Because what we find, Christine, is a paid-for home and a nest egg are the two essential things to stabilizing your golden years. If you retire with a paid-for home and no money...

That's not stable. With a pile of money and a big old mortgage, that's not stable. So what we want is we want that largest line item in your budget, which is housing. We want that to drop way down and be extremely stable and peace around the subject of it being you know your house is yours.

And then we just put as much as we can put in those old retirement accounts to see where we can get there. I mean, when you have zero payments, suddenly what you need to live on monthly is a lot lower. Yeah, that's true, too. That's true. But I mean, if you work like to 70 in your case, Christine, I'm going to I'm trying to do this in my head. But you're going to have about six hundred thousand dollars. I like it. Plus a paid for house.

If you pay off your house in 10 years and you work till 73 more years, you're going to have $600,000 in nest egg. If you'll sit down with a good smart Mr. Pro, put them into good mutual funds.

Pick good funds and always do it. Don't ever stop. And then every extra dollar, let's figure out what the house balance is and what do we got to do to get it paid off. And the faster we get it paid off, then you can do what Jade said, and that's jump in there and throw extra above the 15% in that nest egg. And then we can start talking about cranking back the retirement date from 70 to 68 to whatever at that point. So you'll be okay, Christine. You got this.

That puts us out of the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

If you're a leader, your personal growth matters for your organization because whatever you lead can only grow as much as you do. I know from experience. I've been CEO of Ramsey Solutions for over 30 years and now I'm sharing that leadership and business coaching experience with you on the Entree Leadership Podcast. I'm taking your calls and helping you figure out how to overcome challenges within your organization. One episode could change your business. Check it out on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or

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