You Can’t Hack Your Way Into Wealth!
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life. We're going to help you win today.

with your money, with your relationships, and in your work. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney joins me this hour, and we are here for you. So let's get to it. Ann is going to start us off in Raleigh, North Carolina. Ann, how can we help? Hi. So basically, I am a recent graduate from college.

North Carolina A&T and I have been struggling to find my passion in graphic design and that world and I just really need help on trying to figure out my passion and I also need help on trying to figure out my finances and find the right career to help me pay my student loans. Okay. How much debt do you have?

I am in $25,000 worth of debt. That's including credit cards and student loans. Okay. And what is your income right now as a graphic designer? Well, probably like less than $1,000 a month. Are you just freelance, part-time?

I'm a freelance graphic designer, and I also work as a part-time customer service representative. Okay. And so when someone tells me I'm trying to find my passion, the way I define passion is just find something I really enjoy doing, right? There's some meaning in it. It's enjoyable. So we're on the same page with that.

So when someone tells me, well, I haven't found it in graphic design, that tells me that at some point you chose graphic design as a destination or a direction based on what you know about yourself. Is that fair? That is true. Okay. So let's forget graphic design. Let's just take that out of the equation. Let's not worry about titles, the type of work.

I want you to just fill out for me, just kind of real quick, don't even overthink it. What would you do tomorrow if I paid you what you needed to make and you just were like, I'm going to try this tomorrow. I may try this for two weeks. I'm not committing the rest of my professional life to it. I just think I'd like to try this, Ken, and just see if I'd like it. What pops to the top of your mind? Becoming an illustrator and doing animation. Well, that just flowed right off the top, huh? How much have we thought about that?

Well, I've always wanted to do that. Like since I was a child, I knew I wanted to create cartoons and illustrations, but I feel like people don't want to see that. And I don't feel like I can actually do that and make money. Now we're on to something, Dr. John. We got a lot of imposter syndrome going on here. I doubt that anybody will like the illustrations that I will draw. Fair? Yeah.

Yes, that is true. The giggle reveals every time. All right. So, so this is, I want John to weigh in on this because I think this is, this is no question of mindset. This is a mental thing too, but I'm going to tell you that you're just dealing with good old fashioned doubt. What we now call imposter syndrome.

is such a goofy phrase. Number one, you're not an imposter. You're the real deal. If I talked to everybody that knows you, and they would tell me that Ann was doodling and drawing her whole life. I'd have teachers tell me about your talent. I'd have coaches, I'd have parents, siblings, friends. Everybody would say that Ann is not an imposter in wanting to do illustrations and animations. And I can also tell you that you don't have a disease.

You just are dealing with some good old-fashioned doubt, and doubt to me is defined as, I don't believe that something good will happen if I move forward on this. And so you chose something that was close to animation and illustration, right? Yes, correct. All right. So let's just simplify this for a second, and I want to bring John in. He's always got great insight on what we're thinking and feeling, but I just want to be very practical for you. The step forward on this is very simple. You need to identify...

all the different types of jobs and work that are in that illustration animation field. I mean, to the top of the Disney animators, all the way down to what an entry-level role would be doing this for this. Okay, you know that world better than I do, and in about an hour online, you could get a pretty exhaustive list of all the types of jobs in those fields. True or false?

That is true. Disney is my number one company I want to work at, but that's true. Great. I'll come back to that in just a second, but I got to hurry. Okay. So I'm going to identify what's out there and then I'm going to, I'm going to ask myself four questions. You got something to write with?

Yes, I do. Okay, here we go. First question is, once I've seen all these different types of jobs that I know allow me to illustrate or animate, do the thing that I love, that allow me to grow, now I've got to ask this question. What education do I need? May or may not be a degree. You just graduated anyway. Do you need further licensing, certification? That's what I mean, okay? So do I need to learn anything more? Okay. Now...

I had to ask, what do I need to do? What's the experience I need to eventually get to Disney? So I'm looking at entry level. I got to start here. Then I climb here. That's what do I need to do? And I begin to see what a potential path would look like. The third question is, what is that going to cost me?

What's it going to cost me if I got to do some additional training? There's a cost to that. You're in debt, right? And then fourth, how long is this going to take based on the fact that I got $25,000 in debt, based on the fact that I got basically a part-time job right now? And so I look at what's going to cost and how long will it take. And now I've got myself a plan. Do you understand those four questions?

Yes. What do I need to learn? It's actually a mind-perfect. Great. What do I need to learn? What do I need to do? How much is it going to cost? How long is it going to take? And all of a sudden, it's not so intimidating, not this big, giant mountain you have to climb. You tracking with me?

That is true. It's perfect. Okay. Now, John, I want you to jump in. What are you hearing? I'll leave you with this. And you said this. There's a great researcher who researches imposter syndrome. And she says the definition of imposter syndrome is the fear that the world is judging you as harshly as you judge yourself. Wow. So today that crap ends. Fair? Yeah.

Yeah, that is true. I need to stop it. Yes, and here's how you stop it, though. You don't just walk around the house chanting it because that makes you a weirdo. And you don't make some vision board and light candles under it.

Here's what you do. You draw every single day. Every day at 5 a.m. to 6 a.m. before your job, you draw. Or 6 a.m. to 7 p.m. or 9 p.m. to 10 p.m. But every single day of your life, you draw. And what's going to happen in two years, three years, you're going to have an entire portfolio and you're going to start finding this crazy thing called your voice. And then you've practiced and then you got better and you know what you're going to start doing? Loving it. And then, ding, ding, you found this silly thing called passion. Right? Right.

Here's the last thing I'm going to tell you. And this is the least popular thing I'm going to leave you with. The worst thing an artist can do is owe somebody money because that means you have to, you have to hedge, you have to sand off the edge of who you are in order to please somebody else so you can get paid.

That is true. So I think in addition to what Ken told you, in addition to drawing every day, I want you to go get two or three or four jobs and pay this freaking 25 grand off. Not sexy, not towards a thing. Maybe you can find that. That'd be amazing if you get one in an animation house in North Carolina or something. But I want you to just get this debt out of your life.

Then you can afford to go be an intern when they offer it to you. Then you can afford to get seven roommates in New York and go be an illustrator for a small-time print house shop or whatever the thing is, the next step is. But get this debt out of your life so that you don't have to cash in your integrity for art.

So good. So true. You got this, Ann. Let's increase our income while we're planning for the future. Get this debt out of your life and you are on your way. No more doubt. I love it. Good stuff. Thanks for the call, Ann. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Call my friends at BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash Diloni today for 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Diloni. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. So excited that you are with us. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Diloni joins me. We're here for you this hour.

Taking your money questions, relationship, mental health, work-related questions, 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Fabulous studio audience today. You've got a big crowd out there, John, so always fun. We'd love for you to come watch the show in the lobby and come out and say hi, take some pics, and don't forget...

Thanks to Papa Dave. You get some coffee and baked goods. It's all free and subsidized. I think this crew got on the internet and realized Dave wasn't going to be here. And they were like, it's time for us to go then. That's right. They're like, let's party with Ken and John. That's not what they said. Not even close. They were like, oh, man. Yeah. They're disappointed. We're going to try to do our best today. We won't be grumpy like Dave. Lucky, Ken and I both have...

A lot of practice disappointing people all the way back to our high school dating days. Wow, that's rather generous. I think much earlier for me. You must have had a much better run at it. Disappointing people for a long time. Yeah, we're used to it. Let's go to Toronto, Canada now where Adam is there. Adam, how can we help? Hey, how are you guys doing today? We're doing great. What's going on?

So I've got a, just looking for some more advice. I'm a small business owner and I'm working on the side of owning my business as well as I'm in school right now for business. But I'm just trying to figure out what the big next move is and if it's worth it for me to keep working on the side. And yeah, like I said, just kind of some advice. Okay. Do you, when you say you're trying to figure out what the next move is, you got an idea?

Yeah, I do have an idea. I'm planning on investing some money into my business and scaling up a little bit. It's a contracting company, so we do construction renovations to people's homes and things like that. So I'm looking to try and... I'm thinking the right idea is to hire on a couple more guys and get a truck and trailer and have a couple of crews going. The job I'm working separately right now is...

quite lucrative for being just like a part-time job that's on weekends and pretty early in the morning. What are you doing and how much are you making off of that?

It's a subcontracting gig doing painting, and the hours kind of vary. We start really early, and we're done around noon hour, but it's about $100 an hour. Okay. And so is that your main income, or is the contracting business your main income?

Um, that's my, uh, it's more steady for sure. Uh, my contracting generates more revenue when it, when it does, you know what I mean? It's kind of when it rains, the poorest type of deal. What are you making as a painter on the weekends? What's your, what's your gross? Like per year? Yeah. Um, last year, probably just doing it on the weekends about, um,

$50,000. Okay. And how much money are you considering sinking into this contracting business? Probably about $30,000, I'd say. $30,000? Is that payroll for new guys and or equipment? Or does that include everything you were mentioning? That'd be the equipment and a startup payroll for a month for a couple of guys, and then the truck and the trailer and everything. You got $30,000 sitting in a bank account?

I got 20, 25 roughly, but with expenses going on with the business. And like I said, I'm in school right now. So life is a little more expensive than I'd like it to be. All right. So you called John and I and you're going, all right, I need some advice. Which way are you leaning? Because we've got a snapshot of the financial picture and I think we've got a pretty good snapshot of your personal schedule. So I'm leaning one way, but I'm curious, what were you considering? You're going, all right, John, Ken, tell me what you think.

I'm definitely leaning towards investing in myself and my future, like my business. I don't want to work for... I want to work for myself in the future, for sure. But I just... I'm kind of at a point now where...

I don't really know what is the smartest move to do next. Like if I should rather than be getting tools and another truck and trailer and whatnot, should I be potentially looking into stock options? No, no, no. What are you in school for? What are you learning?

I'm in for, it's a general business program at a college. You're making $100 an hour at a trade and you're running a crew making an additional group. What is this going to teach you? I kind of wonder the same thing every day. I started my business while I was in school, so I didn't have...

have this business before I went to school. It's kind of, I feel like it's the reason why I started the business. So Adam, listen, if you cut the school right now, I'm not telling you to do it, but if you did, how much time and money would you be saving that would allow me to advance this goal of having the cash necessary to launch into my own business or excuse me, not launch, to grow the business? I mean, that's time and money. How much would that advance the goal?

A lot because it definitely alters my schedule with how much I can be on the job. How old are you? Marketing. I'm 22. All right. I got one, two, three degrees after the age of 22. You're fine.

If you're making $100 an hour and that part-time gig can help float the creation of a brand new business and that's what you envision yourself doing 10 or 15 years down the road. And by the way, you're learning skills and getting contacts, doing your side hustle that's going to help you. You have a moment right now, bro. Why don't you just take the moment? And if it doesn't work out, all right, fine. I'm going to go back to school. You see what I'm saying? Yeah.

I totally do. This is, however, my last, I'm in my last semester of schooling. We'll lead with that next time, dude. Yeah, that would help us. Why wouldn't you pause your business and work two or three more days a week making $100 an hour? I agree with that. Save up your cash, finish your degree. You're trying to do everything all at the same time. Yep.

I would paint more. Hey, John's right, Adam. Finish the degree. My goodness, now you've got one semester left. Finish it. I would make more money painting. I would stack up more than just the $30,000 for that initial. I would stack up, if I were you, I would paint full-time, which you're not. I don't have the availability to do that. It's kind of like a...

But hold on, you can make a hundred bucks painting for this one contractor, but you can also put up signs and do paint on your own. You're developing a reputation. Yeah. He would not pay you a hundred bucks if you weren't really good at it. You can make more money. What we're saying is within your schedule, you need to make more money painting, save up, I would say a minimum of six months of operating cash for the construction contracting business. Six months. Okay. Yeah. And then I would invest in it, but invest smart, man. I wouldn't buy a machine when I could rent the same machine.

Okay, yeah. Well, the equipment I'd be buying is just truck and trailer. I've already got a truck and a trailer right now. But my point is, don't get a brand new truck and a brand new trailer. Buy the oldest possible truck you can get that still runs. So you're on the same page with us. I just think you were calling and asking for permission, something you didn't need. I would finish the degree at this point because it feels like we've got sunk costs. Let's go ahead and get it. It doesn't hurt you. But then be smart, man. Stack cash and grow slow.

That's the goal. Okay. You got it? The thing that burns young construction crews is debt. That's right. They go buy the biggest truck, a couple of big trailers, all new tools, hire the guys, and everything gets off to a blazing start. And then there's a dip in the market. There's a dip in the whatever. Somebody cuts their prices, and all of a sudden that debt payment still has to happen. And it gets messy. Or your workers don't show up. But you still got to be making those truck payments, right? That's right. Just get you in trouble. How many times have we heard Dave talk about

the growth here at Ramsey that we would move at the speed of cash. Yeah, that's right. And I think that's one of the great phrases of all time. And that, cause you get to, you get to make that relative to your environment. Right. So some of you are out there going, okay, I don't have Adam situation. I think what John is saying is, is applicable to you too. It's just move at a moderate conservative pace so that you limit mitigate your damage. How, what do you tell somebody who like,

This guy, you talk to so many people in this space. I'm interested because just for my own personal. He wants to own a contracting business. I want to redo kitchens. Yet people keep hiring me to paint. And I got a gift of painting. I don't want to be a painter. I want to be a this, right? I don't want to be the bass player. I want to be the lead guitarist. You're the best bass player around. And you always have work. At what point do you say...

I'm going to lean into this other thing because the universe seems to be telling me. The answer is immediately and often. Lean into painting while I'm growing this over here. So play bass guitar in every band you can get and keep sitting in your basement practicing. Because contracting is hiring subs out anyway. We're the painting. He is the talent. So I think your advice to him was great, and I love that. Yeah, really good. All right. Hey, we've got to do a couple commercials, and we'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney is joining me alongside, and we are here for you, 888-825-5225. I don't know if you've heard us talk about it, but we're pretty excited. We've got this brand-new event called Total Money Makeover Weekend, obviously based on the wildly popular book by Dave Ramsey, Total Money Makeover. And this is happening May 10 and 11. It's going to be right here on our campus in our fabulous event center.

And it's a weekend, as you can tell, and you're going to get a crash course on everything we teach about money. Brand new content from all of us. And it's with a money focus.

And so it doesn't matter what baby step you're on. If you just need a little spark, a little juice, if you will, to get past the stages that you're in, stay motivated, stay focused. This event's going to help you. We're going to not only be speaking with you, but we're going to open ourselves up for a lot of Q&A, a lot of audience interaction, because that's something that you have said you want. So it's going to be a lot of fun. Early bird tickets are now on sale for $99, but for limited time. And this is the best deal possible.

Won't last. It's going to sell out. We only have 2,400 seats. Fantastic arena. But it's going to sell out. So get your tickets now at ramsaysolutions.com slash events. ramsaysolutions.com slash events. I just saw the rundown, Doc. And I'm very excited about this because I get to have a little fun. I'm not going to give it totally away, but I will be assisting, air quotes, Jade Warshaw in a special fun little thing where I just get to be just a goofball.

And I couldn't be more excited about it. You know what I'm talking about. Yeah, I do. And I just left a planning meeting earlier today. Are you doing something a little fun? Well, not near as fun as you guys. But it's a departure from the normal. Yeah, I'm excited about it. Stand up there and lecture. It's different. So I'm pretty excited about it. I'm really excited about it to just be total doofus. And that's all I'm going to say. I don't want to give it away. But it's going to be fun. I mean, you never know. I might eat a pita pocket on stage. I know.

I know. I might. I don't know. I'm going to be sitting behind you just juggling pomegranates, just hanging out and having fun. Jade's all into food. The grocery segment. We'll leave it there. That's all we're going to do. We don't know. We don't know what it's going to be. It's going to be awesome. By the way, that kind of goes together. What's that? Come to the Total Money Makeover weekend. It's pita pockets and pomegranates. A lot of peas. I like that. Good stuff. All right. Let's get to Brett. He's joining us in Detroit, Michigan. Brett, how can we help?

I was calling. I have, um, me and my wife got married last year and we have about $250,000 in a high yield savings account. That's separate from our emergency fund. And we were wondering what we should use that money for. Um, we have a house that we have a mortgage on. So we were wondering if we should put it towards the mortgage and pay that off early. If we should put more towards the savings, um, just trying to get some insight on where we should use that money.

How much is left on the mortgage? $280,000. And you have no debt, is that right? No debt. We both started working right from out of high school and have zero debt, have paid for cars, and the mortgage is the only thing. Well, you're familiar with our Baby Steps, I'm assuming, since you made this call today, right, Brett? Yeah. Brett, tell us what Baby Step 6 is, loud for everybody in the back. Pay off your house.

What is this quarter of a million dollars that you have in liquid cash? What is it giving you? 5%, which is not even what my internet is. You even missed the question. Not that. You would, Brett. You spreadsheet-er. What is it giving you? That's good. A peace of mind kind of sitting there. What's the peace of mind? Um...

I don't know, honestly. Just that I had the money there because I kind of thought about changing my career path, which is kind of why I didn't want to get rid of it. Okay, hey, let's stay right there. Let's stay right there. I'm going to ask questions, and John will just pick away at you. How about that? We're going to tag team this. You ready? Tag team? Tag team back again. Here we go. WWE. Okay. What career would you pivot to?

That I'm not sure. Right now I own a landscaping company. Okay. And it's... All right. Doesn't matter. It's a busy life. All right. So let's say we pivot, Brett pivots to career X. All right? Yep. What is risky in your mind? I want you to be realistic here for John. What's risky about that move? What would you have to do to where you would need the $250,000, Brett, as smart as you are? What would you have to do? Um...

lose more than that in a bad investment that's about the only thing but that's not happening i'm not even talking about invest i'm saying you you go get qualified for said thing that we don't know okay yeah and you go you go after it what would have to happen for you to need this two hundred fifty thousand dollars given your financial situation

Pretty much nothing, honestly. I can't think of anything, honestly, that would... So, Brett... Especially if my wife... I guess if my wife stopped working, if something happened and she couldn't work. She's not going to do that. Here's the big question I've got. Close your eyes. Are they closed? Can I do this as well? You can do this. Okay. Your house is paid off and you don't owe anybody anything. And you start feeling a little bit nervous.

Would you borrow, take a HELOC out on your house at 5% to put $250,000 in an account? Would that make you feel better? No. No. What would be awesome about changing jobs is having not a single payment on planet Earth. Nobody owes, you don't owe anybody anything.

Okay. Does that make sense? Yeah. Because the moment you walk out, you're going to have this $250,000 in an account, right? And there is some security in there. Don't get me wrong. No question about it. But the first thing you're going to have to do when you make this job leap to whatever it is, is figure out how you're going to pay your mortgage because you owe $280,000. Imagine that's gone. Okay. And then the first thing you're going to decide is, where do I really want to work? Because I don't have any...

Yeah. By the way, Brett, the ideas come really freely when we have zero stress at all. And as smart as you've been with your money, you've identified with John that you've got some stress over actually liquidating this money to pay your house off.

That's what this is. Yeah, I definitely do. I know. That is what it is. And by the way, we get it, but we just heard this call 800 times, just different name, different location, and there's a psychology to letting go of this. Yeah, it's a misaligned security. You think you're safer because you have this cash. Make no mistake, having that much cash, there's not a lot that can hit you that you're not going to be able to take care of.

And you signed a piece of paper that told somebody else, I'm going to end up giving you $280,000 plus interest for this thing that you let me have early, this house.

And so that money's technically not even yours anymore. It's already somebody else's on a promissory note. You're just holding it, and you're making them rich. So if I'm you, do you have an emergency fund already paid out? I mean, already saved up? Yeah, there's about $30,000 in a separate account for an emergency fund. Okay, I'm not giving you any ratios. I'm not giving you any principles. I'm just telling you what John Delaney would do in John Delaney's house.

I would take 20 of that 225 and I would get an even Stephen $50,000 in an emergency fund. And I would take every other penny of it and I would put it towards my house. And then I would look at my wife and say, let's do a wild sprint. And by August 1st, let's have no mortgage. Are you in? That's what I would do. Okay. Yeah. And Brett, I agree with you a hundred percent. I was thinking juice that emergency fund where you get a little bit of, you know,

a little bit more stability it's like that little blankie you're like okay that's pretty good emergency fund and then i would focus on the raise you guys are going to get when you pay that last house payment i've already started doing that with one of my kids going to school and and you know i'm like i just got a raise exactly once i start i just think it's what you focus on and john's right i thought that was a brilliant what's your um what is your what's your monthly uh mortgage payment

Like $2,600. Dude, how many lawns do you have to mow in Michigan to make $2,600? A lot. Yeah, I got that as about a $32,000 raise with some quick math, and I didn't go to a good school, so you need to check my math. It's about $32,000, isn't it? I mean, that's the focus. Brett, you have no house payment in short order and a $32,000 raise.

Which may set you up nicely to make this professional pivot, whatever it is, and no stress. I love it. Way to go, Brett. I think that's awesome. Oh, I love it. Good for y'all. Oh, my goodness, folks. That's the conversation about money and how we attach it to all of our fears and everything. Great stuff. Doc, I'm going to send him a bill. I thought that that was really good. You should charge him a little extra for that. I'm going to. This is The Ramsey Show.

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Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Thrilled to have you with us. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney is in studio with me as well. We're here for you. You got your money questions?

Relationship questions? How about work questions? You want to get that bigger shovel? John and I are here for you this hour, 888-825-5225. Alyssa is up next in Philadelphia. We just met some nice folks from Philadelphia in the lobby. It's Philadelphia today, or day today. Boy, that was a mouthful. Not sure. Alyssa, rescue me. How can we help?

Oh, well, I'm going to start by saying I feel like I'm talking to a bunch of cousins I haven't seen in forever. We listen to you guys all the time, so this is kind of trippy. That's so funny. What's up, cuz? I hope we're the, like, cool cousins, not the... No, totally. No. The slightly awkward ones. Oh, yeah. I thought that's where you were going, which I would understand. What's up? Well, to just get the sad part out of the way, a month ago today, my father passed away. Oh, man. One month ago? Yeah.

One month ago today. Oh, wow. So I apologize if some tears happen here. No, it's okay. No apologies. What happened? Well, he was fighting stage four cancer. Nice. It was unexpected in that it was just diagnosed in October. Wow. And he had surgery in November, started chemo in December, and then January 25th, my mother found him in their living room unresponsive. Oh, man. So he was only 62. Wow.

And it's just insult to injury in this whole situation. So I already know the end of this conversation is going to be you guys telling me I have to have a difficult conversation. I know that. My question is in the how and the when. So since this happened, my mother has been staying with us. Like I said, she found him. She found him in their home. And so it's a whole conversation.

layers of just trauma and grief in this. Um, I do have two or four small children, um, and, and not the biggest of homes. So we've been making it work, but it's not the best of the best relationship to begin with. Um, she's got some undiagnosed mental things, namely bipolar disorder. Um, and that's something that my father really took on himself to kind of shield us from, um,

He did leave her with a $500,000 life insurance policy, which gives me some breathing room, but that's a whole other thing that I've never done this before. I don't even know how to start telling her to live off of that. But the question comes in is, I know Dave always says you don't make those big moves in tragedy like this for at least six months. Mm-hmm.

But we can't keep living like this. There are no boundaries that she will accept. She's...

It's to the point where she's actually sleeping in a bedroom with two of my children. And I wake up in the morning and they're snuggling in bed with her. It's just there's no healthy boundaries. And it's not giving room for any of us to grieve in a healthy way. This is different than the six month thing. OK, the six month thing would be selling her house and moving her into your place or selling her house and fill in the blank.

If she has the money to keep her place, if the house is paid off, that's what we're talking about when it comes to six months. This is a wild tragedy came upon you, right? Yeah. And let's take it away from your dad because that's a really heavy moment. Like all of a sudden, the Deloney house is flooding and I call Ken and I'm like, hey, can my family come crash at your place? Ken would be like, absolutely, we'll figure it out. And I bring the Deloneys and we crash in his living room.

Um, that is not the new normal. That is Ken saving my family for an evening or maybe even two evenings. Right. And then it's my responsibility to get to a place where then I can grieve and begin to make decisions.

And so the conversation is not going to be as difficult as you think it is, unless your mom chooses to react in any number of unhelpful ways. You can't control that at all. Period. Okay. Right. The greatest gift you can give your mom is for you to be well and whole so that you can walk alongside her in the next season. And for you to be well and whole, you need boundaries in your home. Period. Okay. So the conversation is something along the lines of mom,

We got to get you home and I got to get my house back in order. I would, I'm willing to walk with you X, Y, and Z. And you and your husband talk about what that looks like. I'm willing to go to the probate and help probate this thing. And we start getting checking accounts and insurance and all the death certificates, all that stuff. I'm happy to walk alongside you and help you. Or I'm happy to completely step back and let you do this. You tell me,

This part is happening and then I'm asking you for what role you want me to play moving forward. And then the most important part of this is by March 1st, by March 15th, you've got to be back at home.

How do I walk that? We have to put a date on it. Do what? How do I walk that? Number one, like you said, I don't know how she's going to respond. She could be totally level-headed one day, and the next hour that switch comes. But I also have that element of she said to me, you know, that's where he died. We can't even walk into that house. So I'm trying to walk a line of grace, but I completely agree with you. I got you. Then it might be time for a one-bedroom apartment. It might be time for one of your sisters or brothers to stand up.

If it was my mom and my dad's home, I would recommend to my mother that she get a one-bedroom apartment near my family or near my sister and my brother. Because there is absolute... The environment's going to play a huge thing, a huge role. And over a three-month lease...

She's going to go back there for an hour. She can go back there for an hour and 30 minutes. She's going to go back there and deal with clothes and then have to leave. Right. So this is an exposure, a slow over time. It has to happen. You can't just never go back in there again. Right. Unless she looks at you and says, I'm never going in that home again. You and your brothers and sisters sell everything, get rid of everything. I'm never going back there again.

Well, okay. Then we're going to have to go sit with an attorney and have her sign over a bunch of stuff and it changes the dynamic. None of this though is, you're spending a lot of time in your mind, scenario after scenario after scenario. And what you're doing is you're just making yourself mad.

rehearsing potential things, just go put the thing on the table and let's get to the reality part of it all. Yeah, rip the bandaid off. Okay. And you cannot control what she does or says afterwards, period. And I hate that for you, but you can't. I do have a quick financial question.

Mm-hmm. You said that she got a $500,000 life insurance policy? Pending the autopsy, yes, that is what's going to come to her. Okay. And does she owe anything, any debt at all, or anything on the house? They do owe on the mortgage, yes. How much? I think it's around $260,000, $270,000. Yeah. I'm only asking that, John, because I feel like if a part of everything else you said you lay out, okay, Mom,

If you don't ever want to go back there again, here are our options. Here's math. Yeah. Okay. So we can pay the house off and, well, at this point, just sell it. Yeah. I'm sorry. So just sell the house and then whatever she makes on it. So let's say she's going to walk away with $200,000.

uh, for round numbers. And then she's got the 500. So now she's got 700,000, the one bedroom apartment or whatever that John's talking about as a part of the healing process. And, and you just kind of explain to her, Hey, you're going to be in great shape financially. And if she can't get back in there and that's too much to overcome, but it's all about her leaving the house. Yes. The challenge is that most people want to start because it's easier. They want to start with the spreadsheet.

Yeah, that's right. And what I want you to do is ask your mom to invite you into the parts of what comes next that she wants you around for. Okay. See what I'm saying? And she might say everything or she might say, if you're kicking me out, then you're done. Okay. Yeah. Right. And that's going to be heartbreaking. You're going to have to grieve that part of your, of your mom's transition, but you're going to feel like I lost my mom and my dad.

which is not, is sadly not uncommon, right? Or it's not, yeah, it happens more regularly than you would think that you just kind of lose everything all at once. Hopefully that's not the case here, but you're going to get some pushback. Right now her body feels safe wrapped around her grandbabies. And what you're saying is I need to get my home back. Do you have a brothers and sisters that can help share the load here? Sure.

I have one brother who has cut off all communication with her because of how she is. Okay. All right. That's just, yeah. That's tough. I'm so sorry. So sorry for your loss. What a mess. Hang in there, Alyssa. Appreciate the call. Wow. Tough stuff. All right. That's going to do it for this hour. I want to thank Dr. John Deloney, my co-host. I want to thank James Childs, our fearless leader, and all of the gang behind the glass to keep us on the air. And mostly we want to thank you, America, for joining in. This is your show. This is The Ramsey Show.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life. We want to help you win with your money, win in your relationships, and win at work. And if you're not winning in any one of those areas, it's going to start to affect all the others. Dr. John Deloney is with me. I'm Ken Coleman. Thrilled to have you with us. 888-825-5225 is the phone number to jump in. 888-825-5225.

All right. Is that Minot or Minot? I like to say things right. We'll see. Elijah is with us in North Dakota. I got to get to the bottom of it. Is it Minot or Minot? It's Minot. Minot. I didn't even... Minot. It's option C. Indefinitely wrong. I thought I was hooked on phonics, John. I thought I was hooked on phonics. Not today. All right, Elijah. How can we help?

Okay, this is kind of a very strange situation. So I'm 23 years old. I work out here in the oil field. I make $26 an hour, 12-hour days, week on, week off. I have about nine hours of free time while I'm at work. I'm a well watcher. I basically...

I pretty much get numbers every hour or every three hours. Pretty much my total amount of labor throughout the day is equates to about three hours of work. I don't have anybody down my throat. So I basically just have a bunch of free time just sitting in my pickup, um,

doing nothing really. And my question is how do I use my time in the internet to increase my income while I'm out here? Um, jobs look really scammy online and I know there's a lot of different avenues I can pursue, uh,

and it kind of got me in a state of paralysis by analysis, and I would like your guys' input on what you would do specifically in this situation. All right, let's start with you've got all these ideas. What are the top two or three that interest you?

Um, I feel like the most scalable option is trying to get a following through some, through social media. Um, and I also know that, um, to, with any sort of endeavor I go into money wise, I need to have marketing and sales, which I am, um,

developing my skills in. All right, so hold on, hold on, hold on. I want to crystallize these ideas, okay? So one of your ideas to make extra money in the nine hours you're sitting in the truck is social media, which means you've got to build that up to a certain point. By the way, that's pretty public. Would your bosses, if they saw that social media channel, would that cause you a lot of heartache and even make you lose your job?

I don't think so. I mean, I have posted videos out here and he has viewed my account, so I don't think so, especially if I was getting traction. But that's not going to make a lot of money right away. So what's the other idea? Right, right. That's exactly my thing. What's another idea?

The only thing I could think of is like maybe e-commerce or like some sort of freelancing, but I also like don't have any really skills, but now everything seems to be again, very scammy. Like I've went around trying to apply for jobs,

I've applied to a bunch of them, and it seems like people are just trying to get my information and take my money. Yes, you're correct. That's right. If I were you, and I want John to take, I want him to say what he would do. If I were you, I got nine hours in the truck, so I'm essentially going to have to make money off my phone. And I was scrolling. And my laptop. Okay, great. Your laptop as well. So I'm looking at not things that require scam, but things that I completely control. So the resale industry is not a scam.

So for instance, if you're buying stuff on that week off, so you're one week on, one week off. I interviewed a couple several years ago on my show that they started doing flea marketing and garage sales. They would go buy stuff. So for instance, they'd go buy a leather bag for two bucks from a garage sale.

because they knew what it was and they would clean it up, whatever. And then they would turn around and sell it for 20. Okay. And so they just kept doing this for about two years and then they got pretty good at it. And then the husband started making YouTube videos and

documenting what they did and now the guy makes ready for this 1.5 million dollars a year off their YouTube channel talking about flea marketing flipping Wow flea mark flipping or garage sale flipping so that's not a they're just simply going to the work and so I'm not I'm not don't want to hang that idea on you but I would be thinking what can I do in my week off that would enhance my nine hours in the truck

From an e-commerce standpoint. So that's the only idea I have. But I know in the week off, I could be going buying stuff, fixing it up, listing it, and I'm checking on it and all that stuff in the car. That's just one idea because you're limited to what you can do. But I don't want you thinking that you just have to have a scam. Elijah, here's my thought. And maybe I'm out to lunch here.

In an average football game, an NFL game, I'll sit down and watch three or four hours of a game. There's actually 18 to 20 minutes of actual activity happening on that field over those three or four hours. The rest is timeouts, planning, calling plays, lining up, offsides. There's only 18 minutes of those four hours where there's actually men running up and down the field trying to catch a ball or hit each other.

But that doesn't mean the other three and three quarter hours are a waste of time. They're all part of the strategy of the game. My question to you is, you're watching Wells and you're supposed to go take measurements. That doesn't mean, even though your job is boring, even though your job is dreadfully boring, that a big part of your job isn't making sure the well doesn't blow.

Yeah. I am watching millions of dollars worth of equipment. That is your job. I think the bigger question here is you've got a very boring job and you don't like it. Yeah. That'll burn somebody out quick. Everybody told you, it's a great job, dude. You can get a job in the oil fields. And I'm from West Texas, so it's very similar. Oh, yeah, it's a great this. And it's a hazardous, exhausting, boring, lonely job most of the time.

No, exactly. I'm actually out here by myself. Yes. Oh, that's worse. So either...

Like Ken said, you get really good at doing work during your off week, which I think is really wise as a 23-year-old without a family, without kids, without mortgages. Well, I do have a fiancée and actually a three-week-old child. Oh, well, my bad then. So now you've got a little less time. We've got a little less time now, yeah. But you're working 24-7, 365 for the next few years.

But I'd have a hard conversation with myself, with my wife, or my future wife about where we're going to be, what we want to do.

And I might take those eight hours that you're not working and say, okay, if I have to get qualified for something, I want to get into marketing. I want to get into another thing. You can do education in your truck from your computer while also watching the wells. And that way, if your boss ever comes out and goes, are you running another business on the side? You could say, no, sir, I'm getting a degree to make me a more valuable employee. Right? And then you wake up in a year and a half. You got 26 bucks an hour. You've worked on the weeks off on your on-off weeks.

And you got a qualification to go get the next thing for you. Yeah. But you hate your job, dude. You hate your job. And so I don't want you to scam on your boss just because you took a boring job.

I think you need to do it right. That's just my two cents. Yeah, the conflict of interest is a real thing. But if you're just sitting there, you know, I think that's... You guys will sell stuff on eBay too, right? Yeah, but I agree with John. I think the answer you're looking for is where do I want to be 20 years from now and how do I use the nine hours to get me there? I agree with that. But there's other ways to make money too. So really good stuff. Congrats on the baby. This is The Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. So excited that you are with us. My name is Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney joins me and we are here for you this hour. 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Today's question of the day is sponsored by Neighborly, your hub for home services. Before the weather warms up, Neighborly can help you find local service pros like the Ground Guys.

A grounds guy, I should say. Five-star painting in Mosquito Joe. Boy, I'd like to meet Mosquito Joe. Feels like that guy would be a fun guy to have a cocktail with. I think that guy's right there. Joe at the board. Joe Hankin. New nickname. You're going to be now Mosquito Joe. Mosquito Joe. And you might need Mosquito Joe to turn your outdoor space into your favorite place. Find the help you need at neighborly.com slash Ramsey today. All right. Today's question comes from Samantha in Iowa. Samantha writes, we are in a predicament.

We earn about $300,000 a year and both my husband and I are at the top of our careers. We're cruising along in baby steps four, five, and six. The problem is our kids are miserable after our move here a couple years ago and they're begging to move back to friends and family in Washington. Our pay will be similar to slightly lower, but the living expenses will be much higher. Do we make our kids suck it up or should we suck it up?

We don't want to be the reason our kids are unhappy or resent us in the future. Wow. This has got some layers to it. Yeah, it does. What do you think, Ken? Oh, man. Let's see. You're having me go first, and you're the psychologist. All right. I'll go first. No, no. I'm going to accept the challenge. I'm going to accept the challenge. This is a tough one. I'm real-time in this one, okay? I don't have a set answer here. I'm 50-50 on this. I'm 50%.

You move the kids, and this is just a place, for whatever reason, they don't like. And if we were to take this question face value, it sounds like all of them are in kind of unison. We don't like living here. I certainly understand missing the friends. And so you go, man, there's a real-life resentment here that we've got to think about. And if the kids are saying, hey, we just don't like living here, that weighs on me a little bit. It doesn't sound superficial.

But the other 50 is kind of going, look, you're the parents, and you're raising them, and you give them life, gave them life. You're sustaining their life. You guys made this decision. It was best for the family financially at the time, it looks like. You made some career moves, and it took you to Iowa. Now, that's where I'm 50-50, and I know it sounds like a politician on a Sunday morning show. I think I'm going to go...

I think I'm going to go my heart here and I'm going to tip it and go 60-40. And I'm going to go, I would go back because they're in baby step four, five, and six. Their income is, they're projecting their income is going to be just slightly lower. And I'm going, that's limiting. I think that may be short term anyway. And cost of living when you're four, five, and six, that's why we teach this process. You can absorb things that people that are broke cannot absorb.

So, gosh, what say you? Am I wrong? When you're 300, man, our cost of living, is that 1,500 square feet difference or is it 500 square feet? You know what I mean? What are we not doing? I think I choose my kids on this one. Is that too soft? No. I don't know. I may regret it. What I would do ahead of time.

Often this conversation when it comes up with children is they are experiencing, they are absorbing, I say this often, they are absorbing the tension in their home. And what they miss is, yes, they have friends and family. They've got those faces. They've got those names. They've got those memories. But often what a kid is remembering is that, and if you guys move to a new town, y'all at the top of your careers, y'all are working all day,

Your kids may be sensing that tension in the home. Y'all may not have been as intentional about friends and people coming over and developing relationships and getting involved in Little League games and stuff like that because you're at the top of your careers. And so I would invest in if Iowa is the place that you and your wife or you and your husband think this is for us, I would give it six months to really double down and try to make a home in Iowa. Okay.

are we involved in games in sports do we have people in our house every single week are we involved in a local hold on a second and i love where you're going yep so it actually says um it was a couple years ago they've been in iowa a couple years well i'm wondering if they moved to iowa started their jobs dropped the kids off in school and said let's go make it oh you're saying six months of a new rhythm or something of a new rhythm in their home yeah what if okay i love that what if the kids just don't like

where they live in iowa yeah then i think you have to ask the question like if this is where our job is this is where our job is if this is where y'all are choosing to live because y'all want to like squeeze another we get to get a house with a pool instead of just a regular house go back to the regular house where your whole family has peace that's where i'm leaning right okay i didn't know i didn't know that i could defend it i i felt my way through that one yeah but but mainly it's

It feels gross if we're all going to be miserable because look at the car in the driveway. That's where I was going. The kids are very unhappy. They're barometers for your home. But we're going to make slightly more money in our cost of living. Like groceries are cheaper in Iowa. We know that. Gas is cheaper in Iowa. You're making $300. You're going to go to $290. You're going to be fine. Ain't nobody going to – you're going to be fine. Right? Yeah. I'm staring at my first kid leaving. Yeah. He's an 18-year-old senior. Yeah. And, I mean, nobody wants to hear me say it, so I won't. Yeah. But –

it's oh yeah man it's tough the clock is ticking yeah it is and i just that's kind of where i'm leaning last year after spring break my wife looked at me because i missed most of it i was out speaking somewhere and she said hey yeah we got five i mean she said you got five more with hank and then he's gone and then he doesn't come home for spring break and it was just this like what you know i mean so yeah the clock is ticking ticking ticking but i

I get a sense between the lines here. This is a family that moved somewhere. Look how much money we're going to make.

and did not do the work to invest in the local relationships to get plugged into the community. To where the landing was softer for the kids. Right. Because kids are so resilient, and they pick up new relationships all over the place. That's very good. That's a good point. Yeah. That's a very good point. And it also could be a season of life that the kids are in, too, which makes it a little bit harder. They may come through the storm. I want to tell you something right now. Our last one is about to finish middle school, and it can't happen fast enough. I hate middle school. Yeah.

And I don't remember having a bad middle school experience. Mine's about to finish middle school, and I don't ever want it to end. Do you hate it as well? No, I love it. I love all of it. I love the awkwardness, the goofiness, all the kids coming over, the squeaky voices. I love every second of it all. I wasn't talking about that part. I'm talking about what it's like for these kids, the environment. Oh, it's hell. I'm talking about that. Oh, yeah, yeah. I'm not talking about the kids themselves. I'm just talking about for me. Although, I would like to have you revise that answer. I'd like to bring that back up after Josephine.

goes through nope thank you very much she will not go to middle school she's going to skip it and go directly to uh college not a bad idea all right uh let's see here let's uh let's go real quick to clay i think we can get to clay clay you're on the ramsey show how can we help

Yes, sir. How are you today? We're good. We've got about a minute and a half, unfortunately. Let's see if we can help you. Can you hit us with your question? Oh, yeah. So I am 28. I am debt-free. The house I'm living in is paid off. My car is paid off. I make a little under $30,000 a year. And I want to move from Lafayette, Louisiana, to Denver, Colorado. And I want...

I was wondering if it was smarter for me to rent a place first for a year while I put my current home on the market.

and search for another home in the meantime, or do I just go ahead and buy myself a place outright out there? Even if you didn't have a home, it would be smart to rent. I'm agreeing. Moving to a new state, just getting a lay of the land where the grocery stores are, where the weather is, where your friends are going to end up, where your church is going to end up. So yeah, you moving across the country into a new state, I would rent six months or a year away

just to get the lay of the land, figure out where you even want to live. Absolutely. Yeah. And the bonus to that advice is you get your house sold in Lafayette and you're done and you got the money saved up. We want you to use that 20% down payment is what we'd like to see, the 15-year mortgage, the whole deal. And so take your time. And just to back John up, when we moved here with three kids, we had come from a home that we had been in for 11 years.

And we rented for two. And we rented here in Nashville too. Yeah, and I don't regret it. No. We knew then that we wanted to drop stakes where we did, and that was very helpful. So I think that's great advice. Love it. Check out Denver, though. Check out that Denver news. Check out those headlines. I'm just going to leave it at that. It's in the news a lot. And think about where we move and why we're moving because that stuff matters. All right, we've got to take a quick break. We'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back.

Welcome back, America. You're joining the conversation here on The Ramsey Show. So excited that you are with us. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney is with me. Let's get to Sarah in Hilton Head, South Carolina. Sarah, how can we help?

Hi, my husband and I are facing a relocation coming up and the plan is to build a house. And I'm just trying to figure out what we can afford. We've kind of gotten pretty far into the process where we put down a 5% down posit to the

the builder of $50,000. And that was on Tuesday. And we have nine days to pull out and get all of our money back. And as I'm shopping around for mortgages, I'm getting cold feet because the interest rates are just so volatile right now. And I'm having a hard time to get a clear picture of what's going on. And I'm just trying to figure out if you think that we can afford a million dollar build. Okay. How much are you putting down?

So initially we have to put 10% down because it's a construction loan. We have our house now that we're going to sell, and at the end of the construction loan, when we sell our house, we're going to put down somewhere between $500,000 and $550,000. Okay. And so what will your estimated mortgage payment be?

Well, they haven't factored in us making that overpayment. So without us putting down $500,000 to $550,000, it's looking at about $7,000 a month. What's your take home? And that's including insurance.

our taxes and everything. Yeah, but here's the deal. You can do a mortgage calculator. You can do a basic mortgage calculator. We probably, we have one, don't we? We have one. Ramsey Solutions. RamseySolutions.com. You can actually do it yourself with the $500,000 you're putting down. So essentially, you're going to have a mortgage of $500,000 if I heard you correctly. Is that right? Or $400,000. Yeah. Was it $500,000 or $400,000? About,

I said that it'll be about $450,000 or $500,000 depending on how much we put down. So then you just look at the interest rate and you play it out. And so let's just assume that it's $7,000 a month. If you got your taxes and everything else, you got to look at that. And my guess is that's way above your 25% of your take home. Am I right?

If we don't put any money, so the $7,000 per month is without putting any money down. That would be like a jumbo mortgage. Okay, I'm confused. I apologize. What is it going to be if you only owe $450? I'm having a hard time getting a clear picture of that, but I think it's going to be somewhere around $4,000 a month. Okay, so what do you guys take home?

So my husband brings home $325,000 a year, and I'm a freelancer, and so it varies anywhere between $60,000 and $80,000 a year. Okay. So you know our formula, right? Is it like 25% to a third of your income? 25% is the high end. The high end, right. We don't want you going above 25%. Okay. Okay.

So you're giving me your gross numbers, not your take home. So you got to run the numbers on your take home. Okay. I think you're probably okay there. I'm trying to, I'm not the best. If you're making three 25 plus 80 or 60 days and you have a $400,000 mortgage, that's, that's a no brainer. That's fine. That's fine. It's okay. Here's what I don't like. I don't like that. For some reason, your body is telling you to run from this. That's right.

Well, it's just, it's scary. I mean, it's just, we're very risk averse. Our current home, we only owe $20,000 on the mortgage. Why are you building a million dollar house?

Okay, so my husband had a new job, and that's another thing. It's a new job. It's a relocation. So we're still, you know, getting our footing and trying to figure out what is the take home, what does it look like. We are, it's an expensive area. My priority was the school system, and the school that I liked the best just came with a very high price tag. Are you moving to Hilton Head?

No, so we're in Hilton Head now, and we're moving to Metro Detroit area. Okay, can I tell you something? I would rent. I think John's right. There's a check in your spirits, a new job. There's a lot of unknown. And you owe so little on your current house, which means you're going to get a lot of equity. You're going to have a lot of cash to sit on when you sell it. I would rent. That's what Stacey and I did, and so did John. That's what me and my wife did. When we moved to a new city, dude, I would not buy a house. Especially with kids.

You don't know where your friends are going to live. Well, this is the issue. This is the issue is that the kids need to get into a school. They do. You can rent. You do realize that people that rent. But then we might have to change schools. No, no. If we decide we like this area. No, you can rent. And it's in a different school. No, no, no, no. Listen, you pick the school system. So I'm going to give an example. John knows exactly what I'm talking about. We chose Williamson County.

Okay. There's surrounding counties here in this area. And we heard that Williamson counties were the best schools. So we said, all right, we're going to get in Williamson County public schools. What we did not lock in was neighborhood and house. So what I'm saying is pick, pick what is a really good school system and situation and then rent. But let me also say, how old are the kids?

They're eight and ten. Let me tell you, if a year from now you realize, ah, we want to be over here and that's a different school, trust me, nine and 11-year-old, they'll be fine switching schools. Or they're going to roll into middle school here pretty quick. Right. Okay. Okay. You see what we're talking about, though? We're trying to remove the risk that you're worried about, which I admire. I think you've got to check in your spirit for a reason.

And here's the bigger picture. This isn't some random principles. This is what me and Ken did in our own families. It's absolutely true. Like, this isn't us just making this up. It's you're moving across the country. There's so many variables. And there's a lot of anxiousness because you're doing a lot of reading online, emailing somebody who knows somebody who knows somebody who knows about the schools, and

And there's just going to be a difference when you've lived there and gone to the grocery store, experienced that Detroit winter, you're just going to have a different understanding of, no, no, we want to live over here. Right. I think in my mind, it's just, we want to make it feel like home, like settled, like we're not dragging our kids from one place to another kind of thing. And I, and I guess that's where that's about you, not your kids, because listen, if you move into a million dollar house and, or you build a million dollar house and,

And the job ends up being a little bit wonky and it gets scary and you've got to take more time. And your kids come home every day from their new school to a mom and a dad who are griping at each other, who are anxious, who are not sleeping, who are frustrated about money. That is not a safe, peaceful home.

Right. You and your husband are safe and peaceful. He is crushing it. You are crushing it. Y'all have half a million dollars in equity. Y'all can rent anywhere, and the room is going to be filled with laughter because you don't owe anybody anything. Okay. See what I'm saying? Yeah, and you driving the kids here to there and all the craziness of life, it ain't going to make any difference whether you're in a million-dollar home or you're renting a place. Right. In this transition, home is going to be our mom and dad getting along and a mom or dad okay.

Right. I would get the money out today. Your husband on board with this or is this just you?

Well, he is on board with it. I've been sort of spearheading a lot of this because his job is very demanding and he travels a lot. He's been in Europe quite a bit. And, you know, I check in with him. I let him know what's going on. And, you know, we say one way or another and we agree. But, you know, he hasn't been as close to this as I have just because of circumstances. Okay.

But the point is, is if you do this, there's no tension. If you go, hey, babe, I don't feel good about a million dollar bill right now. He's going to be he's on on the same page.

Right. If you say, hey, I found an amazing, silly 6,000 square foot house that we're going to rent for, I don't know, 8,000 bucks a month, 10,000 bucks a month, and it's going to burn through $60,000, but we're still going to have 500 grand after the sale of our house. And we're going to live nice. We're going to live silly while we figure out our new city, our new state, our new way of living.

Okay. And that's an obnoxious number, obviously, but I'm just trying to go to the high end. That's quite the recommendation. But you know what I'm saying? You can still live a nice lifestyle. You're making great money. You don't owe anybody anything. Let's do this. Instead of you beating your head up against the wall about what about the house, what about this? Here's what I want, the exercise I want you to do.

I want you to sit down with yourself for just a minute and ask yourself, what do I want my home to feel like four months after I've moved there when my husband gets home and my kids walk in the front door? What do I want this home to feel like? Laughter, warmth, silliness, fun. And then what do we have to do to capture that feeling? That's your homework assignment for the next six months. Then you're going to find your big fancy dream home and you're going to be all right.

Great stuff. Thanks for the call, Sarah. Excited for you guys in this next chapter. It's going to be okay, mama. Trust your gut. This is The Ramsey Show. Thanks for joining us here on The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney joins me. The phone number is 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. I'd love to hear from you. Phone lines are hopping today, so let's get back to them. Jessica joins us in Valdosta, Georgia. Jessica, how can we help?

Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. I'm so excited to talk to you guys. Well, we're excited to talk to you. What's happening?

Basically, single mom, older boys. I have 22, 20, and 17-year-old boys. I'm in the middle of baby step two, hoping to have the rest of my debt paid off this summer. And we'll quickly have my emergency fund and partial mortgage down payment fund after I sell my home this summer for a move. So my youngest son will come with me. But that being said, I'm struggling with my older two boys having to move out of the house.

And at the same time, my 75-year-old dad, who also is leaning on me after being a little irresponsible with his retirement money. So I'm trying to figure out a balance to start my life fresh, secure my financial future, leave a legacy for my boys, and still balance older children and a dad who are all depending on me to support them. Where's these boys' father?

He is local, but not so much in the picture. So I'm pretty much the sole support and have been for about four years since the divorce. So all the boys live with me, and they have since we moved into this house about four years ago. So you've got a 22, a 20, and a 17, and you're moving away. How far away are you moving? I'm moving to North Carolina from Georgia, so really excited. And my youngest will come with me and finish school there. Sure. Is this for a job?

No, I met a wonderful man and we've been doing long distance for about a year and a half and I'm moving closer to him. I work remotely so my job is very flexible and I'm able to live at any location and still stay in my job. So I'm very, very excited. What are 22 and 20 year old going to do?

That's what I'm trying to figure out. I have tried to help them the best that I can. They have had paid for vehicles that we paid for in cash. I've kept a roof over their head so they can finish college if they choose to do so without having to go into any debt. My oldest graduated about 18 months ago with a computer science degree, but he tells me that he can't find a job.

So he works part-time at a big box store here locally. He's never had a full-time job. And I have tried to help him find apartments. We've done mock budgets, like the whole nine yards, and there's just no drive there. Hey, Jessica. Jessica, you know why? Yes. I spent my whole career working with this age group. You know why? Why? He doesn't have to.

Yeah. He doesn't have to. I pretty much come with everything. He doesn't have to. He's got an amazing mom who is still feeling guilty over this divorce four years ago, who's still every day trying to make sure her boys are okay because she's not fully okay yet.

It's so true. He doesn't have to. You know why, John? I want to see what John says on this, Jessica, but drive, I've been reading something about drive. What drives us? This is healthy or unhealthy. And this is in your lane, so I'm curious how you think. But when kids don't have any need

There's nothing to drive for. Right. Yeah. You achieve because you have to. He needs to just fly. I mean, now's the time to kick him out of the nest and watch his drive appear. Our friend Henry Cloud, Dr. Henry Cloud says he would tell you, sounds like your boys need some problems. Yes. That's what he would say. That's great. And here's the beautiful thing you have that most parents in your situation don't have. You have an end date coming up.

Most parents have to have this conversation and they're staying in the same house, sleeping in the same bed. You get to sit down with each one of your boys and I would do it individually. And then I would do it together because individually they're going to go talk to each other and they're going to make up stuff that you didn't really say. But I would sit down with each one of them individually and say, come March 15th, I'm moving and you're going to be getting your own place. I don't even know. I know.

I know. It's time, baby bird. It's time to fly. I'll love you forever. I'll always love you. But it's going to be your time. I've tried to have those conversations, and the response I got from my oldest was, this is why I'm not having kids, because parenting doesn't stop just because we turn 18. Listen, hold on. Why have you given this knucklehead a key to your integrity?

Yeah. You know that's not accurate what he just said.

Oh yeah, I've given them all I can. Yeah, he said that because it worked and you were like, you're right, you can stay. It was so manipulative. You know what you should have said? Of course, I don't mean this this way. Sorry. You're amazing. But you know what we want to say to him collectively is going, you know what? I think you're actually right. You're right. You know what? You're on your own, pal. Yeah, you shouldn't have kids. I'll see you at Christmas. And Jessica, that's really hard. I know that's hard. Let me flip it around on you. Um...

Can I just be super direct and kind of mean? Yeah, please. It is cruel that you are continuing to string this 22 to 23-year-old man along. Yeah. He doesn't understand how the world works, and every day this goes on, it's crueler and crueler and crueler.

The greatest gift you can give him is that he has to go learn how to pay rent and an electric bill and his car insurance. Okay. And that's the gift. And actually search for a computer job because tech jobs are everywhere. I mean, he wouldn't want to spend five minutes with me. I'd have him in a mental pretzel with all of the paths and opportunities. I'll give you his cell number. No, no. I tell you what you could do. I tell you what you can do. You can show him this YouTube clip. Yeah. Hey,

And he can watch it. We're talking about him and we're for him, but he's, listen, he's just a big old baby. And I don't mean like in a mean sense, I literally mean he doesn't know what it's like to suffer, to actually suffer the way you have suffered on his behalf. He needs some hardship. I love that. Henry, say that Henry cloud thing. One more time. He said, this sounds like your boys need some problems. That's beautiful. I could never in a million years say it that good. Well, and Jessica, um,

You're going to have to open your hands and let the divorce go. Actually, that I've really healed from. Have you? Hold on, hold on. Have you?

I really have. Then what is the connection with these boys? I think because we don't have a large family and everybody's kind of scattered. And really, I feel like I was the only support for them for a really long time. So even when I was married, I feel like I was the majority of the support for them. So there's just this part of me that like, you know, if they move on and I

I haven't protected them well enough. Do you see what I'm saying? That they have no one. So I guess that's part of my fear. And then on the opposite side, then I have my dad who, um, divorced from my mom a few years ago. Again, that family portion is a bit strained. And so my dad was close to me. So now he has simultaneously with everything with my boys, um,

gone through about $400,000 of retirement money and just called me last week and has nothing. Um, he made some poor choices and has taken a second mortgage out on his home and we can call it dating younger women who were about 35 years younger than him. And, um, there's an instance where he called last week where, um,

their $10,000 worth of charges on his debit card that were not from him. And I'll tell you the same thing I told you that Dr. Cloud would tell him. He needs to get some problems. He's going to have to make some phone calls. This is not your mess to clean up. You can't clean it up. He's got a problem. He's been playing the role of sugar daddy and you don't have enough sugar. I mean, that's the fact. When I said, Daddy, this can't continue. I really don't know how I can help you. I'm trying to manage...

things on this end. And he said, well, I think we switched roles. You're the parent and I'm the child. No. No. So he's a grown man. I don't accept. Yeah. Wow. I don't accept that role. I'm trying to, you know, like I see Dave do the little...

comparison of baby steps and what about Bob loves the freaking movie seen in a million times but like there's a part where he's sailing and he's terrified of the water and he's tied to the front of the boat you know what I'm saying yes and he's like I'm feeling I'm feeling I remember I feel like everybody has me tied like dude I want the ropes gone I want to own the boat I want to pull the boat up to the dock that I own and then walk my happy butt and

Well, now there's the speech. That's it. Why don't you just keep saying that to yourself for the next hour? You keep tying the knots to the ropes. Untie them. You're the one tying. Oh, wow. What an interesting situation. Wow. Well, thanks for the call. Good hour, Dr. John Deloney. Thanks to James Shiles, our fearless leader, and the guys, the merry band of fellows behind the glass. This is The Ramsey Show. The Ramsey Show.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life. And we're going to help you win with your money, in your relationships, and at work. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney is with me. And we're excited that you are here. Let's get right to it. Shamula is joining us in Black River Falls, Wisconsin. Sounds like a lovely place to be from. Shamula, how can we help?

Um, so I just did my taxes and it kind of got me, um, into looking at my finances. Um, so I have 9,500 in debt currently just paid off, uh, one in collections. And, um, I have a savings of like 9,184 that's liquid. Um, but I'm just kind of scared to pull the trigger cause that's,

Mostly all of my savings. What do you mean mostly all? Is there more than the $91,084? Yes and no. Me and my husband saved my daughter's child tax credit over the last two years. So she has $7,500. Why do you think that that's her money? That's not her money. Yeah.

Because I want to set her up for the greatest future I can. Then don't owe anybody any money. Give her a peaceful home. How about fixing your money first? Yeah. But then I'd still have that in my account if I paid off our debt.

Okay, let's just run the numbers. You got $9,500 in debt. You got a savings of $9,184. So our baby steps would say, baby step one is you save $1,000. Okay? The $9,184 now goes down to just $1,000. You with me? Yep. So $8,184 is going to go over to the $9,500, and then we're going to go get the $7,000 that you think is your daughter's money.

And we're going to take what you understand what I'm saying. And we're going to take the money and we're going to pay that off. We're going to pay the 9,500 off today. Like when we hang up the phone, you're like, listen, you're, you are the actual conversation they have on the airplane.

Like the oxygen masks have fallen and you're trying to get one on your daughter's face while you suffocate. And then your child's going to look over and have a mom slumped up against the wall over there, up against the side of the airplane, unable to help anybody. The greatest gift you can give your daughter is not an account of $7,000 while mom and dad are frantic and walking around the house anxious all the time because they owe money.

The greatest gift you can give your daughter is to pay all this off, have an emergency fund, and have some peace in your home. I feel that. I just have a hard time, I guess, liquidating all that money. But you're not. Okay, let's walk through this, okay? The money's yours. Did you say $7,500 for your daughter or $7,000?

$7,500. All right, so I'm doing really simple math. $16,600 and some change is what you've got in savings. You've got $9,500 in debt, okay? You wipe the debt out today, you're not liquidating all that cash. By my simple math, you're still going to have just a shy under $7,000. And then are you getting a tax return?

That $9,100 is including the tax return. Okay, so you have about $7,000, give or take, and that becomes your new Baby Step 3 emergency fund. That's right. You're already there. And you're just going to start putting some money away. In the next six months, you're going to work really hard and get that emergency fund filled up, and then you're going to have something you never thought possible, and that is peace in your home. You're going to be able to sleep all night.

You have a false narrative. There's no liquidating. Yeah. You're actually by our baby steps, which has helped millions of people. This isn't John and I's opinion here. You're actually going to be debt free and you're still going to have more than the $1,000 emergency fund. What? Except for a mortgage. Yes. But the point is, is you're now moving into baby step three and you're on your way to a three to six month emergency fund. What is that number? I'm just curious. What's a three month emergency fund for you? All expenses. Yeah.

20,000 right now. We live very minimal. Great. So you are on your way. And now watch this. So let's just play with this. What would you say it would take you to get to 20,000 if we're starting with about six, six or seven? How long before you got to the $20,000 Mercy Fund number? With no debt, it would be fairly easy. I know. How long? I'm walking you through something here. How long do you think it'll take?

I don't know. A few years. A couple of years. A couple of years to save $13,000? Well, yeah, we still live. All right. Let's still play that out. We'll pay our mortgage. Okay, that's fine. So let's just say that there's no increased income here. There's no second or third job, right? So you could actually get there sooner than that. Do you follow my reasoning?

Yes. Okay. Let's just say you did it in a year and a half for the sake of conversation. That's a year and a half from now. You're now into baby step four, which is saving 15%. And you should be able to do that of your income towards retirement. Baby step five is saving for your daughter with a 529 education plan as an example. You're going to be fine. She's going to be fine. You're going to play catch up really quick. Do you understand that path? Yeah. Do you believe it's possible? Yeah. Yeah.

I don't know. What's your hang up? I feel like you get off the phone and you're going to go, I'm not doing any of this. And you're going to turn the TV on, throw your feet up, grab a beer and just call it a day. I thought the same thing. My problem is it's not just me. So my husband kind of, he wants, he doesn't want to leave. He feels like it's leaving us short. You've already spent the money that you owe.

That's what I've said, but... You're already short $9,500. And the heavens opened up, otherwise known as tax return in the federal government, to hand you a check. You gave you your money back, and you can wipe all this stuff out, clean it up. Within the next two months, almost. No, the next, like, 30 minutes. Well, minus the $300,000.

Well, if I took out of, yes, Gretchen's account, yes. It's not Gretchen's account. Listen, if the government wanted to give your kids money, they would send it to your kids. They don't. The tax credit is for parents who have children and they are struggling. And that is you. It's not her money. It's yours. How old is Gretchen?

Two. Two? Good God on a stick with a pony. Now I'm really upset about it. I thought maybe she was 12 and you told her it was her money and you're trying to reconcile that. This is absurd. She only wants to know where the goldfish are. She has one thing on her mind, her next snack.

And another thing, where to poop, where to poop. Not, hey, Ma, where's my $7,000 child income tax credit? Good gracious. Get that money and, oh, my gosh. This call is brought to you by Preparation H because I've got hemorrhoids right now. Folks, that means he has been mentally strained. I think those are mental hemorrhoids. I think. I hope. We'll figure it out during the break. We'll let you know when we get back. This is The Ramsey Show.

This is the Ramsey Show, where we help you win with your money, in your relationships, and at work. 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman. John Delaney joins me. And, oh my gosh, it's that time of year. It's that time of year. A lot of indigestion all around America based on taxes, and we understand that.

And the reason this is the case is because taxes can be really confusing, a little bit scary. And so we always want to help you with this issue of taxes. Let's unpack a recent question from one of our listeners. I want to avoid overpaying taxes each month. What do I need to change with my paycheck?

A fun question. Two simple ways to figure this out, and the reason this matters is we don't want to give our money to Uncle Sam and then get it back after a full year, right? It's kind of an interest-free loan to the government. That makes you want to throw up. So there's two simple ways to figure this out. One, if nothing has changed in your tax situation...

Take your refund amount or the amount you owed last year, divide it by 12. That's how much more or less you want taken out of your paycheck each month. Two, if your tax situation has changed, use tax software to do a fake tax return. It's going to show if you're paying too much or too little, and then you can do that paycheck math then. And then third, get with HR to fill out a new W-4 so that you're not over or underpaying on your taxes anymore. Now, that's just a quick snapshot. If you need help

go to RamseySolutions.com slash tax. That's where you're going to find Ramsey Smart Tax, our no-nonsense tax software. Very low upfront pricing and zero hidden fees. Or you can connect with one of our tax pros who is Ramsey Trusted, and they can do it all for you. Again, that's RamseySolutions.com slash tax. RamseySolutions.com slash tax. All right, let's go to Midland, Texas. Jessica is there. Jessica, how can we help?

Hi. Yes. How are you guys? We're having a blast. How are you? I'm good. So I was calling because I get a lot of anxiety around spending money, around budgeting. Like I have my planner budgeted all the way through May, and I'm trying to get past that. I'm trying to find a balance between saving and doing fun things with my kids. I get guilty about telling them no.

And I feel like I'm constantly trying to balance that. So I didn't know if you guys had any advice for me. Yeah. So what, what is, I like to look at anxiety as an alarm. Okay. This is a way your body trying to get your attention that you're not okay. Things aren't safe. So when you're about to spend money, what's your body trying to tell you? Is it trying to tell you, Hey, you remember how bad it was when we were young?

When we were seven, eight, and mom and dad had nothing. Dad left. Mom, we were broke. And don't spend money. Is it trying to tell you, hey, you've just got a steady diet of evil end-of-times news stories for the last six years? What's it trying to tell you? Honestly, I went through a divorce, and I felt like...

He was always like spending money and I could never like we weren't on the same page money wise. And so every time that I would try to save, I would check the bank account and there was something spent. And I felt like I had no major control, but I'm also a people pleaser. So I never really like told him it bothered me. So I feel like now that I have like full control of my bank account,

I don't know. I feel like I'm scared to go back into the situation where we were living paycheck to paycheck and I don't want to go back there. So the greatest gift you can give your body is some confidence. And we don't get confidence by just shouting things out in the rain. We get confidence by doing things, right? So do you have a budget? I do. My budget is about, I spend about maybe $2,900 a month max on bills. Okay.

But how much do you bring in? I bring in about $2,850 every two weeks. Okay. So $5,600 a month, $5,700 a month? Yeah. My salary is $75,000 yearly. Okay. So you've got your expenses all the way down to $2,900. And so you've got thousands of dollars left over every month. Do you have an emergency fund?

I'm working on baby step three right now. I just paid off my car January 31st. That was my last day. Congratulations. Thank you. But I just feel like my kids, they go with their dad and then they come back and they brag about everything like what they did. That has nothing to do with money. That's not about money. That's about kids being kids and you trying to get some sort of, um,

Like your kids are your scorecard. And if they're happy, then you've got an A. And if they're mad at you, then you have a D. And if dad is doing better, then you've got an F. You're not competing with him. I hear all over the country when I talk to parents in your situation where

One parent feels like I'm having to reestablish humanity after my kid goes to see their dad every other weekend because all they do is eat ice cream and Twinkies and go to movies and stay up all night and play arcade games. And then they have to come home and go to school. And I'm the bad parent.

Exactly. Here's what that makes you, the adult, the good parent. Your job right now is not for your kids to just think, I'm having so much fun. Your job is to make sure that you're raising great adults. And it's going to be hard because it sounds like they have a dad that's not participating. Yes. So I'm not going to hook my self-worth to how my kids, quote unquote, feel on any given day. Over an arc, yeah. If they're miserable, then I'm going to dig into that.

But your anxiety is going to be around, is our home financially secure? Yeah. Am I a good mom? Yeah. Am I working hard? Do they have rent, food, whatever? Yeah. And do we have some money set aside so that we go out once a week together? Do we have money where we go play with a friend once a month? You see what I'm saying? It's both and. I don't do that. I don't have any kind of fun in the budget. I'm trying to balance. Do you have any kind of fun, period? Do you have friends? Are you doing this all by yourself?

I have my mom. She helps me. That's not what I said. Do you have any friends? Not really. That's your new adventure. That's right. And I don't really do anything. That's your new adventure. You're lonely as lonely can be. And Jessica, I want to jump in really fast and say you cannot give what you don't have. And you're running on empty. Fair? Are we right? Am I right? Yeah. So you've got to take care of you and spending on you and

spinning on what you believe is right in this season. Like the, to take the other side of fear is fear is, is very, very real. But the way we get through fear is going, what is fear telling me is fear, right? Is it true? Is it true? If it's true, we need to adjust. If I'm near the ledge of a, of a, of a cliff and I am afraid I'm going to fall over. Fear is telling me the truth. I need to back up. But if I'm afraid that, um, that I'm going to fail, if I take a new job, when there's no evidence that I'm going to fail, um,

then I'm being lied to and I'm holding myself back. And I think in this situation, you have got to stop holding yourself back because now it's you and you do make good decisions and you're not going to do something stupid. Isn't that true? Yes. You're not going to spend stupid and willy-nilly and irresponsibly. And here's your new homework assignment. Once a week for the next three months, I want you to take a couple of friends out from work, from your local church, from your neighborhood, and you all go over to Rose's

Right down the road over there. And all I want you to do is get some queso and a big old thing of a dozen tortillas and some chips. And if y'all are margarita people, they've got great margaritas there. And I want y'all to sit at Rose's and just chit chat. I like it. I'm told that today's National Margarita Day. She should get one tonight. Yes. How does that sound? Just for her. Crazy?

No, it sounds doable. Okay, here's the word I want you to keep in your head. You're not broken. There's nothing wrong with you. Your body's been through crap. I want you to think of this as I have to practice this. I'm just practicing. I haven't had friends in years. I've been trying to hold together a marriage that didn't hold together. I've been trying to figure out how to survive because I had a husband who spent money like a child. I'm trying to figure out how to raise healthy kids by myself. I'm trying to figure out how to raise a family.

And so I'm going to have to practice laughter. I'm going to have to practice having fun. I'm going to have to practice hanging out with girlfriends and just being silly again. That's right. And the greatest gift you can give your kids is to go let mama be well so that you can anchor back in. And after they're all twinkied and video gamed up and they come back to your home, you can, here we go again, right? Here we go again. I'm proud of you. I'm proud of you. It's hard.

But you're on the right path. Hang on the line. We're going to send you a year subscription for every dollar, the premium version. And we're going to send you the FPU Baby Step videos. I want you to watch them all. And we're going to put you on a path to success. Hang on. All right. Hang on the line. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney is with me as well. 888-825-5225 is the phone number.

Jesse is now joining us in Allentown, Pennsylvania. Jesse, how can we help?

Yes. So in the last two years, I've gained over $100,000 in equity on a property that I bought back in 2021. And I kind of face an issue that a lot of people who bought a house back then, we got a really low interest rate. I got around 3%. And I don't necessarily ever want to sell this property, but I do want to take this equity and buy another property. But I really don't know how to go about it. And I'm also co-signed with my parent on this property. So it's

Yeah, so it was a situation where I knew where the market was going, and I know where the market's going to go in the next couple of years. You do? Whoa, whoa. Can we ask you a couple questions? How is it that you've got your crystal ball? I think that my dad was right about 2007, and he kind of taught me a lot about how the markets are working. And unfortunately, the only way the market's going to fix right now is the baby boomer generation has to get out of their homes.

Okay, that's one theory. What do you mean? They have to get out of their home by dying? No, sell. Yeah, or they need facilities. But again, I'm a healthcare worker. And the biggest issue in America is these people don't have anywhere to go beyond their homes. But you said they need to get out of their homes.

Yeah, meaning either whether they go into a long-term care facility or whether they pass away. And that is kind of like the big issue is a lot of Americans are still like in that boomer generation that take up a lot of the homes. I would say majority of my generation, which I'm in my 20s. They're not taking up a lot of homes, brother. They bought them. They own them. It's their house. Yeah, they own them. Your generation can build some new ones. That'd be cool.

Yeah, that's actually my question is what I'm trying to do because the problem is it's so expensive to build houses and I've looked at properties and the value of property now compared to what it was back then and it's costing a lot more money now to build a house than ever. So what's your specific question?

So my specific question is, I am trying to take a, I want to get a HELOC. Don't do what you're about to do. You're not going to listen to us, and so I know that, but I'm just telling you, if you and I were having a drink and you were one of my best friends, I would say, do not do what you're about to do. Period. Is it a bad, do you think it's a bad time to do a HELOC? I think it's never a good idea to put your house on the block.

to put land or a home on the block. I don't give seven craps what the interest rate is. I don't care how much equity you have in it. You're betting into an unknown future. And by the way, I was you 15 years ago. And I have to say these words out loud on a regular basis to remind myself I was wrong.

I thought I was smarter than I actually was, and I thought I'd figured all this stuff out. I didn't know anything about Black Swan events. I didn't know anything about pricing and supply and demand. I watched a lot of TV and read a lot of internet. Right? And so I thought I knew all this stuff, so I started making these things, and I'm going to make this move and move over that move. And here's what I did. I dug a hole that it took me and my family a long time to get out of.

And so what I'm telling you is the smartest move moving forward is to be really grateful that you got a good rate, really grateful that your house is appreciated. I think it's a terrible idea to co-sign with your parents because they're still have some sort of oversight with you. No, we're partners. You're not. They're mom and dad. Right. And I would sit until I've got cash to buy my next place.

But you're going to get in the equity game where you're getting a little bit equity and then pulling it out so you can put a down payment on this place and get a little equity there so you can pull a down payment on that. And it's going to be fine until you turn out like Dave Ramsey and the whole thing comes down on your head. They call the note and you go bankrupt. That's the end game. The only way this works out for you is if you watch a ton of Instagram reels.

Oh, I do. That's it. That's it. Yeah, because all that does is give you dopamine to make this decision. That's it. You are playing a slot machine, and Vegas always wins. Yeah. So, again, like, so you think it's better to just look into, like, maybe selling the house down the line? Because, again, like, obviously I'm going to count my blessings and stay where I am and kind of wait for the market to kind of... Why do you want to move? ...correct...

Well, because for me— Hey, hold on. This correction, bro, I put an offer on a house yesterday, and I got outbid. All these people, like, it's going to correct. It's going to correct. There is a shortage. It's the lowest number of houses on the market. If you simply know supply and demand, there's very few Mickey Mantle rookie cards. That's why they're worth so much. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. They're going to have to build a whole bunch of houses. They're going to have to increase supply. Okay? You're just playing with basic economics. And bro, I want it to reset. I want all housing prices to cut in half so I can get a nicer house for me and my family. It's not going to happen. It's not going to happen. Mm-hmm. And so if you like your house, live in your house. If you want to move from your house and you have the money, sell your home and then buy something that you can buy.

Does that make sense? - No, that makes perfect sense. The thing is for me, I look at trying to get into more assets and I understand, yes, I don't wanna rush out of this house but I'm trying to use this current asset as a rental property and then buy a second property. I basically took my equity to buy a long-term home and use my current property

as a rental property because of my area and what I've studied the economics of what's going on in my area right now. But again, you just listened to everything. Well, you heard everything John said, and then you came back with the same formula. So yeah, do what you're going to do, brother. We still love you. We've made our position clear. I mean, you've watched a lot of Instagram reels about this. That's why you laughed. I mean, you literally hit him right between the eyes there. He laughed because he's like, yeah, and you should probably keep watching those.

Well, it's going to... No, I'm just saying, we told you what we would do, which is not this. He's bought into, and he does see the future. He does see the future. I feel like that's the X factor. It breaks my heart because I was him. I know. I was him. But again, I mean, this gets back to what you studied. Yeah. There is reason...

And then there's emotion. And the way those two things interact with each other sometimes, it's a very interesting mix. And there is a constant, if you get on the wrong algorithm, there's a constant stream of people telling you, you're behind, you're missing out. You're behind, you're missing out. You got to, got to, got to, got to, got to, got to. And you just end up going, okay, I got to do this. I got to take this asset and move it over to there and move it. Here's the thing. My house right now, if I go get a quote unquote appraisal, they're going to give me a number.

That they think the house is worth. You know what that is? It's a guess. It's an absolute guess. It's a guess. It's not money. It's not cash. It's not an asset. It is an estimation.

And at the end of the day, what somebody actually pays me, hands me money for, and I shake hands with them and hand them the keys. That's what that house is worth. And so I'm not going to make any moves on estimations, on guesses, on approximations. I'm not going to borrow against it. I'm not going to put my house on the market for it. That's a recipe for disaster. Yeah. And to follow that up, let's just look at the numbers. So he's going, well, I want to use this house as a rental and then blah, blah, blah. Okay. Run the numbers.

Run the numbers. What are you going to make? What are you going to make on the actual rent itself? So you have a mortgage payment that you owe the bank, and you're going to charge the renters plus plus. So whatever there is. So just run the numbers. You make it $1,000 a month. That's not happening very often. $500 a month? Let's just say $500 a month. That's $6,000 a year, but that's before there's any kind of, I've got to fix the gutters, I've got to fix the HVAC, because there's the landlord. The lawn care. Lawn care. Lawn care.

There's all this risk. My tennis flushed whatever down the toilet. Yeah, there's risk associated with this. For what?

How much money are you actually clearing? Well, I've got the asset. Then sell it. Then sell it. Then flip. Right. Or if it's an actual cash asset and you're going to sit on it for the next 15 or 20 years, knock your lights out. Well, that's different. Do that all day long. That's right. But that's yours. It's an actual tangible asset. And there's a risk there. Right. We've eliminated the risk or just about completely. Because I own it. It's mine. That's right. I can flip it. I can sell it at any time. So it's a game of, I think I can time it right. By the way.

No disrespect to Jesse or anybody. I listen to, you know me. I'm like an old man. I listen to the news, read the news every day. On business news and high places. Guess what? Nobody knows. Nobody knows what the real estate market's going to be six months from now. Nobody. Everyone was waiting two months ago for the rates to drop. Last month for the rates to drop. They didn't. Nobody knows what the stock market's going to do. It's just, so listen. Live your life. Here's what we do know. We know solid financial principles work.

That's what we know. And everything else, well, it's how much risk are you willing to take on. So hang in there with us, folks. This has worked for over three decades, and we want it to work for you. This is The Ramsey Show. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Dr. John Deloney is in studio with me as well this hour. Our scripture of the day comes from Psalm 37, 23, and 24. The Lord makes firm the steps of the one who delights in him. Though he may stumble, he will not fall, for the Lord upholds him with his hand.

And our quote today from Bono, as a rock star, I have two instincts. I want to have fun and I want to change the world. I have a chance to do both. I think it's pretty interesting when you get to a point in your life when you can start a phrase with a sentence with as a rock star. That's pretty cool. Don't you think? And like, I didn't think that was pretentious at all because he is, in fact, because he's Bono, a rock star. Right.

Yeah, you know, as a rock star, as a middling YouTuber, Ken, I believe that... Yeah, nobody quotes me. As a middle-aged podcaster... As a guy on a failing radio show... Just kidding, James. I believe that... So crazy. It's hysterical. Wow. Unbelievable. I'm still shook from that last call. We got to talk to a real-life fortune teller. I know. He should put out an e-book. Yeah.

Because if you can time the market, I feel like you're on to something. You like that one. That's a genuine laugh right there. That's funny because there's a whole industry of...

e-book people putting out e-books on how to teach other people how to buy no down real estate and you'll learn it by buying my e-book and then I buy that e-book and I learn how to make an e-book about writing e-books for no down real estate. It's just this loop. We live in a world where you can be an expert without being an expert. It's grown up Tupperware sales. Yeah. Right? It's grown up essential oil pyramid schemes. I'm going to show you how to do it. Question. Have you done it? Nope, but I got seven steps that you can use. By my course. Very interesting.

All right, let's go to Brooke in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Jeez Louise on a stick. Brooke, what's going on? Hi, guys. Thank you so much for having me on the show. Sorry, I'm having a temper tantrum, Brooke, so I'm going to get better here. Go ahead. No problem. Thank you so much for having me on the show. I appreciate you guys showing up every day and doing the work that you're doing. Well, thank you for calling. What's going on with you today?

Hey, we've got a little extra unexpected money that came from the sale of a couple of calves that we had. Obviously, that's not coming to us being taxed, so we'll have to pay taxes on that at the end of this year. Meanwhile, we are in baby step number two. I've got an IRS debt that we are trying to punch out. It's totaling $8,700 right now.

The unexpected money totaled just under $3,000, so it was going to be $1,000 I either put in savings. But I'm wondering if I don't just take that money and pay the IRS now and then withhold $100 a month throughout the rest of the year for my check to make up for that. I like the idea of creating that habit of when we get that...

that money that's not taxed of putting it aside but i also want the irs out of my life now so i wanted to get your guys's opinion i'm gonna go with irs out of my life now okay and i'm gonna go with you're asking you are you married i am yes you're asking you and your husband to do something y'all have never done before which is stick to an actual budget and actually save money

And so I'm going to challenge you. I don't believe that you can do this. I actually do, but I'm just doing this for theatrical, uh, for theatrics. I don't believe you can do it. So if you do in six months, if you will send me a direct message on Instagram that you have an account with six times $100 and it's 600 bucks in it, I'm going to send you any of my books for free. How about that? Okay. That's my challenge to you.

Okay. I'm like, Ken, get the IRS out of your life, away from you as far as humanly possible, but you're robbing Peter to pay Paul on this one. Yeah. Just take care of that first. That's kind of where I was, and I really thought, well, this is the more urgent where I can also just pay that later. But, I mean, we do have other...

um that's in baby step two but this one obviously dave says irs goes to the top of the list and that's sure enough what we wanted but this is the exact same thing that got you in this mindset i mean this in this predicament not mindset in this predicament which is oh we'll just pay that later yes absolutely and now it's later right and let me tell you what you do never you never want to go with the later option with the irs they just don't mess around

Absolutely. Is there a chance you could go to a local credit union and get an $8,000 line of credit and pay this thing off?

We actually have $6,300 ready to go. We've paid $9,600. We have $6,300 more to send, and that includes the $2,000. I just wasn't sure about that extra $1,000, whether I should hold that back to pay next year or just go ahead and send it now. So we'll have almost all of it ready to go this month. Okay.

When you say next year, you guys are 1099 income? This would be 1099 income, yes. We're W-2 employees, but we do ranching on the side. So this is just a couple of calves we had that went to sale barn. Oh, calves. Calves. And so you just didn't hold the money back. Right, yes. It's 1099 income for the calves. And so what I'm saying is in our W-2 jobs, I could just...

take that extra $100,000 out each month to make up the $1,000 that we would owe at the end of the year. Right. I see. You just have to promise you'll do it. And then take that $1,000 now and send it direct to the IRS. That's right. I run payroll, so I set it up myself. Yeah. Good. Do you work with a tax pro, one of our Ramsey tax pros?

We are not with Aranzi Tax Pro. We have a local accountant that's been helping us get caught up. We had some businesses and we sold them and got a little behind there. But we're trying to make it better going forward. Whether it's your local accountant or not, you need some accountability there and a pro there that's helping you navigate this stuff too.

So just to give you personal experience, I'm W-2 at Ramsey. My wife, she works when she wants to. She has a lot of fun stuff that she does. And so she brings in a decent little amount of 1099 income every year.

And so we've got our tax pro that we're going to get clued into all that. We just changed over to a great guy. And so we're going to be getting ahead of that and having a pro walk through. Here's what you need to be doing. I just really recommend that. I love accountants, but I love tax pros. And I think there's a difference. And I just would get them involved. And if they're really good, they're going to check in with you two, three times a year and you won't get in this mess. Right.

Awesome. Thank you. I appreciate that. I'll definitely look into them. All right. You got the DM book challenge by Dr. John Deloney coming your way. So

It's pretty good. I would tell her to slide in, but I've come to find out that means something differently than I thought. Now, you kind of revealed your technique. It was kind of interesting. You were real serious. I believed it. Like, if you would have put a strong bet in a poker hand, I'd be like, ooh, he's got to set a card. You were like, I don't think you're going to do it. And then you went. You immediately gave it? Yeah, I think they could. I think they can. All right, so you think that one of the chances that she hits you with a DM is.

I think 95% chance. All right. I think you take an Oklahoman, which is just like a super northern Texan, I think they respond to challenge quite well. Now, can you say that? No. Actually, because growing up in Texas... They take great offense to that, an Oklahoman. Oh, no, Oklahomans. They wouldn't take offense to being called a north Texan? No, that's like the greatest compliment you can give them. I think he's messing with me. There's the Red River rivalry in football. They don't like each other. Whoa.

At Oklahoma and Texas. But it's... I'm calling I don't believe that on a... Did you like the PG version of that? I kind of PG'd that up. I just don't believe that people from Oklahoma would take kindly to being called North Texans.

You're going to hold to this? I don't know what I'm talking about. As a Texan, I think I'm bestowing quite the gift. This I understand. As someone who's not an Oklahoman, I can see possibly they take offense. I think they probably would. But in Texas, Oklahoma is called Southern Canada. So anything above the Red River is another country, essentially. All right. But all I have to say is I believe in Oklahomans that they can respond to challenge. And...

So we laid down the gauntlet. We'll see if Brooke can come up with $600 over the next six months. I think she's going to do it. Make it happen. I think she's going to do it. And can we just say this? I thought she was talking about cabs. C-A-B-S. I'm going to tell you, I thought the same thing. In fact, I heard cabs, but I wasn't sure what the cabs were, so I didn't follow up. Yeah, I kind of wimped out. Come to find out they were baby cows. Which, if I'd have heard that earlier, I would have made the noise. Much to James' disappointment, he does not like when I do my own sound effects.

But I've gotten away with it so far. Hey, good show, Dr. John Deloney, James Childs, our fearless leader, and his band of merry men behind the glass. Thank you, guys. And you, America, this is The Ramsey Show.

Okay.

And we also talk about something else I'm passionate about Disney adults. George, why is it a thing? Listen, some adults still find the magic. Sure. We,

We also talk about toxic money traits and girl math. And if you don't know what those are, you have to listen to the podcast. Yeah, there's a lot there, you guys. It's pretty fun. We keep you relevant is what I'm trying to say. We help you out. So pull up a chair to the happy hour you wish your friends were having. We promise you won't regret it. And if you don't have friends, we'll be your friends. We will. We're great friends. So make sure to check it out on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or the Ramsey Network app.