When Are You Going To Clean Up Your Financial Stupidity?
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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, best-selling author of the book, Building a Non-Anxious Life.

host of the most popular Dr. John Deloney show on Ramsey Networks. You can hear him there all the time. PhD in counseling. He's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Jenny, or Jenna rather, starts this hour off in Spokane, Washington. Hi, Jenna. How are you? Hi, Mr. Dave Ramsey. Hey, what's up?

Um, so my, my situation's a bit complicated. Um, so two years ago today, my husband and I got married. Congratulations. We are both, well, thank you. We are both, uh, 23 years old and, uh, recently graduated from college and we're on baby step two, trying to pay off our student loan debt. And so, uh, with that in mind, my father-in-law,

and my mother-in-law have both divorced recently, and my father-in-law has remarried. And during that divorce, he took over the Parent PLUS loan that was my husband's for school. And so originally, I had a problem being worried about my financial future, our financial future being in his hands because we have gone non-contact with him for being kind of a toxic person.

um, to be around and specifically related to money. He likes to try and buy people's love. And so really my question is, um, how can we protect ourselves, our assets, our financial future from my toxic father-in-law? Um, and I'm aware that the parent plus loan is, is now not legally binding, um, to us. So it's kind of his loan now, but I'm still concerned. He's going to use that as an emotional, um,

Only if you let him. Yeah, you want your cake and you want to... Okay, so he's gone non-contact and he has a loan in his name. I think he has a problem. Why would you invite the problem into your house? Oh, we're not trying to. Okay, then don't. Yeah, don't take his money. Don't ever take his money and go on about your life. Okay. If you want to take his money... Now, has your husband promised to pay this loan? That's...

Not, okay, that's the confusing part for me because they never really had an agreement on that. I didn't ask if they had a written agreement. I asked if your husband had promised to pay it. It's a yes or no answer. Did he or did he not? No, sir. He did not? I don't believe so. Okay, ask him that. Because if he did, he needs to be a man of his word, regardless of if his father is scum. Mm-hmm.

Because it says more about him than it does his dad. But technically, legally, there's no destruction of your finances by your father-in-law being in debt unless you choose to let him manipulate you. But that's your choice. Yes, sir. There's no way he can destroy you unless you say, please come and destroy me. Yeah, what are you worried that he's going to do?

Any number of things, really. You keep saying that, but I want you to be specific. I want you to name your fears. It's a very vague set of villains here. What are you specifically worried he's going to do? I am worried that my husband will never be able to have a relationship with his father again. Okay, that's different. That's different. That's different than destroying your finances. Well, it's kind of a combo question. No, it's not. No, it's not.

Your husband and his dad can choose to have a relationship in spite of the Parent PLUS loan issue and without you agreeing to pay the Parent PLUS loan. And so at no time have you destroyed your finances, have you traded the destruction of your finances for the relationship. If your father-in-law is so manipulative he wants to make that trade that the only way you have a relationship with me is you pay this loan, then he has chosen to destroy the relationship. But you and your husband didn't choose that.

Yes, sir. Yeah. You desperately want this man to not be who he is, and sorry, kiddo, he is. Is he super wealthy? No, I think he's actually kind of broke, which is another reason why I feel bad. We both feel bad because... I don't feel bad. You didn't do anything. Why would you feel bad? Well, because his family is now dependent on a man who...

Whose family? A good person. My husband's family. Ah, okay. He has three younger siblings who are feeling the brunt of this man's poor decisions. So that's heartbreaking grief and relational sadness. That's enough pain in and of itself. Don't add the added fear of, and we're going to go bankrupt because this guy is going to destroy us.

Y'all are fine. How do I keep my father-in-law from destroying us? Yeah. That's a ridiculous question. He has absolutely no power to destroy you. He can break your heart. Unless you choose just to live in the sewage that he creates. Instead, you can just stand back and watch this thing and be sad about it. It's kind of sad. There's young children being affected. But you didn't cause any of it. And your husband didn't cause any of it.

So it's just, you know. You can start a pen pal relationship with those siblings. You can invite them out for, you know, Camp Jenna once a year. I mean, y'all can figure out ways to be in connection with them because I do get that heartache. Just don't overcomplicate it with imaginary things. You're turning this into a catastrophe that doesn't exist, kiddo. That's what we're saying, okay? Any number of ways, you said. How can he destroy you? And your answer was any number of ways. And there is no number of ways. The number is zero.

Follow me? Yeah, we have a lot of disaster mentality, I suppose. Yeah, and I think you might be afraid your husband's going to cave and get sucked into the vortex of stupidity. In that case, he needs you. Yeah, in which case the two of you 23-year-olds need to lock arms and say, hurricane coming, baby.

Everybody ready for the wind? Here it comes. So everybody, if you sense in your life, if you ever say the phrase or think the phrase, any number of things or a whole bunch of things or everyone is...

Take out a piece of paper and begin to write them down. Who is everyone? Who is all of them? What is, what are the number of things, the number of things? And you find real quick, it's about three or it's two. Yeah. Or it's, and they, and there are two people that don't matter or one of them does. And the rest of them, right. Yeah. But it really narrows your challenges really quickly. Yeah. And, um,

Well, I mean, like you say, when you're facing trauma, facts are your friends. Facts, yeah. So you need to reduce this thing to facts. What's the truth here? The fact is that your father-in-law is a hot mess, and he's in a hot mess, and he signed a Parent Plus loan, and that's part of his hot mess. The fact is he's got zero power over you and your husband unless you grant him power with your weakness, and you call that compassion. It's not compassion. It's just weakness.

There's a difference. There's a complete difference. Compassion comes from strength. This is The Ramsey Show.

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No one accidentally wins. You don't accidentally have a great marriage. Oh, that just happened? We're just so in love. Yeah, for about 20 minutes, and then you get to start working on it. We don't accidentally get in shape. We don't accidentally become wealthy. It's a series of intentional acts. You don't accidentally become a world-class athlete.

Doesn't happen. Well, he was just born that way. No, he's not. He's weight room. He's trained. He studied. You don't accidentally win. It's a series of intentional acts. Same is true with building wealth. You have to act. You have to own purpose, intentionally tell your money what to do. Give every dollar that comes into your possession an assignment intentionally to

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What are you waiting for? Every dollar in the app store, Google Play, or everydollar.com. Bryson's with us in Hawaii. Hi, Bryson. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. How's it going? Better than I deserve, man. What's up? Hey, so just kind of my background with the Ramsey program. Me and my wife had started trying to become debt-free, I don't know, like four years ago. I was staring down...

Dental school, looking at like $650,000 of student debt. Good Lord. And decided to quit one month into it and ended up joining the military and got my student loans paid off. And then kind of came across you guys about a year ago, and we've since paid off about $50,000 of debt. Wow.

So you had $650,000 in debt or you were looking at taking that on? No, I had $50,000. Oh, and the military paid for you to do dentistry? No, the military paid off my student loans I had from my undergrad. Oh, so you abandoned dentistry. Yes. And so I appreciate what you guys have been putting out because we were kind of on our path to getting out and then...

kind of started listening to you through some friends and, uh, just kind of really cleaned up a lot of our other debt that we had sitting around. But, uh, so thank you for that. Um, well, thank you. Thanks for your service to the country. How can we help? Absolutely. So I have a buddy, um, that I've kind of told about what we were doing and, and talked about, you know, looking at maybe some side hustles of sorts being here in Hawaii. Um,

And so he reached out just barely about this company called Global Financial Impact. Oh, God. And yeah, so I looked online and they're very vague, but they kind of talk about universal banking and full life insurance. There is a little blurb about term policies, but I don't.

I just don't really know what to tell my buddy because I feel like people take advantage of military people getting into things like this. And so I just was like, I don't know. I have some time today. So I'm like, well, I'll call in because I listen to your show every day. And I'm like, well, I kind of get some advice from Dave about what to tell my friend. Well, go three clicks deeper. You will find nothing positive.

Okay. If you just keep clicking, you're just going to keep finding more and more dirt. It's a bad deal. Yeah. Run. Tell him to run. Run? Run as fast as you can the other way. Like they're shooting at you. Run. Yeah. Because, you know, this is bad news. Listen, anything that sounds too good to be true is.

Absolutely. And there's no sense in getting into all the details, but I think if you'll just do a little bit of research, you'll just find. You've already got the stink. You got the smell off of it already. And so, you know, just keep clicking around. You'll find other stuff. It's fairly easy to find all the stuff.

uh, trash that's out there. And, um, and in this case, I think most of what you find will be the trash will be true. So yeah, dissatisfied people, people that felt ripped off, people that were ripped off, uh, and so on. So you're not going to find anybody goes change my life except in their ads. So that, that, that's your, that's your key right there. And so a lot of, a lot of good side hustles you can do without getting involved in that kind of stuff, man.

Wow. Yeah. And if it's your buddy and you're worried about how to tell your buddy, I don't know, Dave, with me and my closest friends, we have a pretty straightforward relationship that they've got permission in my life to say, hey, Deloney, you're about to do something real stupid. Don't do that. And I have learned the hard way over the years that when one of my friends calls me and says that,

I'm probably not seeing something the right way. And it's at least worth me taking a look. And so I think this is one of those moments, Bryson, that you call your buddy aside and say, hey, I'm just telling you because I love you. You're about to do something really stupid. Please don't do that. Or give me six months on the Ramsey plan. Give me six months. Don't do anything. But I love you enough to just try to stand in front of you and yell, hey, bridge is out. Stop driving. And at the end of the day, your friend's going to do what your friend's going to do.

At your guys' age, at your college-age folk, it's harder to have the maturity and the friendship to where you listen to that, though. I know I've experienced, as my kids were in that age, their friends going to do something. And, like, one of my kids would come in, Rachel would come in and go, hey, Dad, this friend from college is getting ready to do so-and-so. And I'm like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no. And you need to tell them. And she would go tell them, and they would do it anyway.

So, you know, you need to be ready for that. He may do it anyway. You can't stop him. And it's just kind of painful to watch people you know do stupid stuff. But, you know, it's especially painful. Benjamin is in Sacramento. Hi, Benjamin. How are you?

Hey, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? My wife and I have been married about 10 years. We're looking at combining our finances for the first time. She currently has $11,000 in auto loans and $14,000 in student loans. I recently paid off $20,000 in credit card debt with a large bonus that I received, so I'm debt-free currently. I

I told her that, you know, the first thing we need to do is attack this debt together. She has right now $7,000 in her savings, and I have about $5,000. And I told her, you know, once we combine, I'll apply all of mine with yours towards the debt. Let's leave $1,000 in there as our emergency fund. But I'm really struggling on convincing her to spend that $7,000 towards the debt. She's worried that some catastrophe could happen, and we're going to have no money. God, you are such a husband.

You know what husbands do? Husbands tell people what we're going to do and don't talk about why. You're such a husband. I do it all the time, even though I tell people not to do it. I do it at home, though. So, yeah, don't talk about what to do until you've talked about why. You already got the why because you've been studying this Ramsey stuff. You just laid out the baby steps and the execution of them perfectly.

You totally get it. But you know, so you're willing to do it because you see that

Somehow you've spent enough time with us that you see that it's going to take you where you want to go. The why is I don't want to be broke anymore. The why is I want to build wealth. The why is we can get to live our dreams and go on vacation wherever we want, buy whatever car we want, and be generous beyond belief. That's my why. You're seeing that out in the future, so you're willing to engage in some sacrifice to get there. And you guys never talked about the why. You just went and took her money and paid down her debt.

You didn't yet physically, but I mean, in her mind, that's what happened. And she got emotional whiplash because she doesn't know why we're doing this. Right. Yeah. So you owe her an apology. Okay. Yeah.

I'm sorry. I went about this wrong. We should have talked about why I'm so excited about this. And let's talk about where we can be if we follow these steps. And then we'll talk about what the steps are. And then we'll talk about what the implications of the steps are for the savings that we both have and the debt that you have remaining in your name as a part of our combining this. So back up about five steps and have a dream date, dreaming about what the future will be like again.

And you go, I'm sorry. I went straight to the throat. And you're such a husband. And don't do that. Guys, ladies don't do this to their husbands. They don't do it. It's such a husband thing. We see it all the time. And then my name becomes a cuss word. This is The Ramsey Show.

You know, it doesn't take a degree in statistics to realize this one stinks. 93% of undergraduate private student loans are co-signed. So when you're delinquent and drowning, mom or papa or uncle Joe is stuck in that financial stress a long time.

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Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Thanks for hanging out with us, America. We're glad you're here. Daniel is in Richmond, Virginia. Hi, Daniel. How are you? I'm doing well, sir. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Um, I was, uh, calling because I have a, um, a vehicle that basically between the payment and the insurance is about $900 and I'm not really good with finances in the slightest. And I'm trying to figure out what the next best step is to kind of get out of it. Um,

Basically, I'm also under it as well. I'm definitely not going to be able to get out of it what I paid for certain. And the payments are basically really, really weighing it down. Okay. What do you owe on the car? I think the remaining balance is about $25,000 to $26,000. Where did you get that figure? That's based off of the buyout from the loan company that I used previously.

Okay. Is it a lease? Yes, sir. Okay. So the early buyout, they told you they didn't give you an actual figure. No, sir. It was just about 25 is from what they'd kind of roughly given to me. Yeah. Okay. All right. Give them an email or a phone call and tell them you need in writing what the buyout is this month. Okay. Okay. Then we know what we're dealing with. You said you think it's around 25. Is that what you said?

Yes, sir. Okay, and what do you think the car is worth? Anywhere from $16,000 to $17,500. Is that trade-in or private sale? Private sale. Okay, how long have you had the car? Two years now. Okay, and what did you pay for it? I believe it came out to $31,000.

Okay. How long a lease is this? It was a 80, um, 80, 84, I believe is what it was. Um, so how old are you? 22? Uh, feel like it, but I'm 28. Okay. All right. Um, what do you make? I make about 54 a year. Okay. So rough take home is about three grand. Um, there's a little bit more with a car. Um,

I had to get a cosigner on it as well when it all kind of came about. So I've been trying to figure out the best way to kind of get past all of it. So take home after everything is roughly about $3,000 a month. Okay. You must be getting a big tax refund or you're taking a bunch of stuff out of your check. Yeah, it's a bunch of stuff. I somehow seem to be owing every once in a while. But between taxes and health insurance...

It's about 32, if you take 31 to 32. That's only $36,000. You should be getting home with a lot more than that on a 54 income. Something's wrong with your math. So you need to investigate why you're not getting home with more money and understand that. And if there's some things you can cancel there, like if you've got a bunch of rip-off insurance or something,

that's not your health insurance at work, then we're getting nickel and dime. And if you're getting a tax refund, you need to change your withholding, and I think you probably are. So did you get a tax refund last year? No, sir. You did not. Well, federally, I think I got about $100. Oh, have you got money going into your 401K? No, sir. Okay. Okay.

I don't know where your money's going, but there's a problem. There's a hole here somewhere. Anyway, and you're working 40 hours a week doing what? What do you do for a living? I work as a logistic technician for a marble and granite company. Okay. It's about 50 to 60 hours a week. Okay. All right. Well, you desperately need $8,000 or $10,000 to write a check for the difference in what the car is worth and what the early buyout is. Agreed?

Yes, sir. And get the car sold. That's the answer. And so where are we going to get $8,000 or $10,000? I'm guessing you have no money saved, correct? Just the $1,000 emergency fund. And how much other debt do you have other than this car? I have a credit card with maybe like $100, but that's really not all. I haven't really used credit cards in my whole life. Who is this ridiculous lease with?

It's with a company called Consumer Portfolio. Okay. All right. Yeah. Okay. Your desperation for a car, whatever created the desperation, I don't know, caused you to get screwed and get a cosigner in the process of getting screwed because you've got a horrible loan.

And you just bought a car and desperately wanted that car for some reason. So you're willing to do whatever because you're dealing with a subprime lender. And they pulled in a cosigner and you probably paid too much for this car. It sounds like on top of all that. And so, you know, and all of that was because they saw you coming and you had that stink on you of desperation or fear.

impulse or immaturity or something. I don't know, but something led you into a really, really bad car deal and you made all the decisions. So that makes it that much harder to get out of this. So, uh, learn your lessons from it. The good news is you learn it at 28. You don't have to do it again, right? Yes, sir. So when I was your age, I was going bankrupt because I was an idiot. So I got you beat. You just did a bad car deal. I lost everything.

So we both get to learn our lessons and never repeat the lesson. Okay. And that's what I want you to do here, man. And if you just go back, go back and analyze what you were telling yourself, you know, I was forced. No, you weren't.

I was, I know you weren't, you got all freaking emotional and bad and just completely signed anything they put in front of you because you were walking away with that car. Nobody was stopping you and you drug somebody else to the table with a co-sign. So anyway, put all that in the rear view mirror, but, but be sure you smoke that pipe before we're done and never do it again.

Now, then the way to get out is we've got to go take six extra jobs. You're going to be working all the time. You're single, aren't you? I live with my girlfriend. Okay. You're not going to be home much. You're going to be working a lot, doing anything that will pay you good money that is moral and ethical.

I want you to go bananas for a short period of time, a couple of grand a month, extra income coming in. And in three or four months, have the money saved up to write a check for the difference to sell this stupid, but car and go buy you a $5,000 car for cash and drive it until you can save up the money to be in a better car because you don't have a, you don't have a $900 payment, um, going out. Um,

And check and see if they put an extended warranty on this. If they did, cancel it, and that'll give you a credit back towards the balance as well. Because I think they screwed you on that, too. They got you with everything else, so they probably got you with that one, too. And so, yeah, cancel that. That might be a couple grand off that balance in there as well. Check your take-home pay. Something's wrong with it. We need to get home with more money. And if you find another $1,000 coming home, it'd be about right on your check. And...

I mean, surely you're not paying $1,000 a month for health care. You might be, but that wouldn't be a good benefit, actually. So anyway, that's... At the root of this question, Dave, is I think it's just something that's, you know, the politicians sold this so much and so much, this idea of there's a way we can just make debt go away. And people call on the show, and it's happened more over the last year or two, which is how do I just get out of this?

You don't. And I think that's the harsh method or the harsh truth that we give you that nobody else will give you. There's not a hack around this. It's just straight through it. It is six jobs for six months.

And not going home and not going on dates and working and working and working and working and saving this money up and paying this thing off. Yeah. There's no shortcuts. There's no shortcuts. You have dug a pretty substantial hole and you need to get some shovels. Anybody sends you an email, any other programs, a special, hey, you know what? We can't. They can't. They're lying to you. There's one way through this and that's to earn the money and pay this stupid stuff off. And there's not an app you can put on your smartphone that makes this work.

You just, it sucks. And you got to dig it out. You're going to have dirt under your fingernails and you're going to learn your lesson and you're never going to go back.

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Financial.com. Dr. John Deloney Ramsey, personality number one, best-selling author, is my co-host today. Angela is in Roanoke, Virginia. Hi, Angela. How are you? Hi, Mr. Ramsey. I'm doing just fine. Good. How can we help? All right. I have just come through. I was married for 36 years, and I've been divorced for two years. Right after my divorce, I purchased a home in my name, and about four weeks ago, I sold that home.

And I made $108,000 profit. Good for you. Okay. I'm 57 years old. That's got to feel pretty cool. Way to go, girl. I was very surprised. I did good. You did good. Well, my question is this. Do I turn around and purchase another home at this age of life? Yes. Or do I take this money and reinvest it? No, you need a house.

You're just 57. You look like you're 87 at this age of life. I got socks that are 57. Come on. Seriously. Well, I'm on my own for the first time in my entire life, and I just want to make sure that I'm making solid investments. Well, you did good on the last one, kiddo, without him. I did do really good. Yeah. All by your lonesome. You took the training wheels off and did it.

Yes, I did. Proud of you. So I think you can trust you more than maybe you think you can trust you. Well, I overanalyze sometimes and talk myself out of things. You need a house, Angela, that's yours that nobody can take from you.

Okay. So buy the house and move on. Yeah. Buy you a house and a 15-year fixed where the payment's no more than a fourth of your take-home pay. And here's why. From 57 to 87 or whatever year you leave this earth and go to heaven, but from 57 to 87 is 30 years. Every single year rent is going to go up. It did for the last 30 years, didn't it? It did. Wouldn't it be neat if we could rent something what it was 30 years ago?

Oh, yeah. Wow. Oh, yeah. Well, guess what? That's where you're going to be when you're 87. You're going to be paying those high stinking rents if you're not an owner. So be an owner. Okay. So should I do a 30-year mortgage and do maybe three extra payments a year? No, ma'am. Do a 15-year.

And then do three extra payments a year. I want you to pay it off. I want you to do a 15-year, and I want it paid off before you retire. Yes, okay, that's my goal. Well, I mean, you've got 10 years if you retire at 67, right? Right. So if we take out a 15-year and we pay extra payments, we'll be done in 10. Right. And that might mean we buy a more conservative cottage, right?

than the Taj Mahal yeah I mean I'd rather have a paid for cottage than I would uh in debt Taj Mahal Angela how were you married for that 36 years all right I want you to metabolize this there is a very strong possibility that you live another 36 years

Wow. So you, as long as it feels like you were married, you might live that long. What does that mean? I want you to create the back half of your life. You're holding a blank piece of paper and a pen. What do you want this thing to look like? This is like when you go to the concert and the curtain goes down, but everybody keeps clapping and then the curtain goes back up. They call that an encore. That's what you're in the middle of. This is your encore. This is your, after the first bow, you come out and you do a whole nother show.

I don't want you to look up and have burned 10 years of this. Yeah, because you're very capable and you're not old. Okay, good. We got that behind us. It wasn't long ago that 57 was old, but now that I'm 63, it's just a pup. So there we go. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Mark is with us. Mark is in Austin, Texas. Hey, Mark, how are you?

Hi, Dave. Hi, John. Hey, what's up? How are you doing? Good. How can we help? Yeah, so my wife and I just had our first son two months ago. Congratulations. Thank you. And we're looking into sending him into private school. He's a baby. I'm looking forward to that.

Yeah, you started off early, right? Yeah. Mark, slow down, homie. Okay, so. We want to figure out the best way to fund this because we all know that tuition will be going up. And I was considering maybe using the 529 plan to invest in that more than what we would have for his college as well. Obviously, we will invest in his college in the 529 plan as well. But maybe separate out different,

um kind of amounts and then hopefully have enough for you know a decent amount for it will work and it's really it's legal you're not gonna you got what five years of growth on these funds that is tax-free in a 529 and that's your only gain by the doing this yeah and what's your household income sir uh 110 okay all right and um

Well, when people decide, um, especially 20 minutes after birth that they are thinking about private school, uh, generally it is, uh, for a couple of reasons. One, it could be they're concerned about the quality of academics, uh, to their people of faith and they want their child to attend a school where their faith is. The value system of their faith is respected and maybe don't think that's going to happen in a public school. Uh,

The third one is safety. They're worried about the actual physical safety of the child in a situation. And those are generally the three reasons that someone or some combination of those reasons that someone would be a staunch on private school. They're convinced that private school is a better academic situation. That would be one as well, I guess, that you're going to learn more there. So which category do you all fall in? What's the concern?

We're number two, mostly, and also number one. But Texas has great public schools from what I can tell. I can't remember which one was number two. What was the subject? We're devout Catholics. Jesus and academics. Okay, so you want your kid to have a Catholic education. You're devout Catholics. Okay. The good news is that, generally speaking, Catholic private schools are not as expensive as frou-frou.

private schools. Yeah. Yeah. They're very, they're usually the private school spectrum. They would be the less expensive of the bunch. Generally speaking, not always true. And Hey, Mark, can I, can I pass up along to you? Just, just dad to new dad. Yeah, for sure. Six and a half years ago, I was three jobs in two States away from where I am right now.

Yeah. Like you're already trying to map out that. Okay. Then this and then this and then this and then this I'm all about plan and all about thinking ahead. You make six figures. You're all going to be okay. Yeah. But I also want you to make room for your life's just going to look different in six years than it does right now. And that's okay. And I know you're holding that little baby and you want to make sure every variable is covered, man. That's a recipe for anxiousness and anxiety.

So get the big rocks, get the big values anchored in, and then get ready for the adventure of a lifetime, man. Be highly intentional, but be intentional about those values and those directions, man, and be open to what comes. Because you might find out that public schools in your area are amazing and they're great and y'all can move that money somewhere else. Or you may find that you need to move early. Who knows what you're going to find?

But head that way, man. Well, the thing that what we found was as people of faith, as Christians, that

We were so stupid and naive. We assumed that if it said Christian school over the top, that that meant everything that happened there was Christian. No, I know, but I was stupid. I'm sorry. I'm just saying. And if you think everything that happens in a Catholic school has anything to do with Jesus, you're real confused. So, um, because it's not. So there's all kinds of stuff happens in all these schools. So what I learned the hard way early in our, uh,

children's education process was that it's actually up to us. It's our job. Yeah. It's my job to make sure that they hold those values. It's my job to do this. And if I let someone else do that job, it's done poorly or not at all, or it's perpendicular to what I believe accidentally. And so, yeah, it's my job to make sure you're learning to read. I know it's the teacher's job to teach them to read, but I better make sure that you're learning to read because I'm the dad.

This is The Ramsey Show.

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and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author and host of the Dr. John Deloney Show on the Ramsey Networks. He's my co-host today. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. Dave is with us in Cincinnati. Hi, Dave. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hi, Dave and John. I'm a long-time listener, and it's an honor to talk to both of you guys today. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? I am at this season of life. I'm looking at 63 years old and looking at retiring here in the next couple of months, and I'm doing a global assessment of my finances. I'm currently

After slugging it out for all my career, I'm currently under management, professional management with one of the big name outfits,

They're managing about $5.6 million at a 1% fee. And when I look at the next 25 years as I begin retirement, that comes up to a substantial amount of future fees that I'd be looking at probably in excess of $1.4 million in fees, not including the time value of money.

And was wondering how does somebody like me who needs about $75,000 a year to pay my bills, if I wanted to become self-managed or go into some kind of a flat fee management scheme,

How does one depart from being fully managed and look at making a serious transition into becoming either semi-managed or self-managed? And is that even a wise thing to consider at this point in the game for me?

Yeah, I think it's a wise thing to consider. And I think you may be able to find that other firms, 1% is fairly standard, but at your level with $5 million under management, it should have started to be, the fee should have been on a gradient. It shouldn't stay at 1%. And so you might want to shop and say go to one of our SmartVestor pros. A lot of those use a 1% management fee program, but ask them if any of them have a gradient fee

uh based on scale because at some point um you know uh you know the the you got you start asking the question if i'm going to buy a series of mutual funds and i'm never going to touch them uh or almost never touch them i'm not sure exactly why i'm under management at the point that i'm 5.6 million now if you're 560 000 you should stay there

Because you probably need the guidance and you probably need the other stuff. But you've proven to be an excellent investor, someone who sticks it out, doesn't jump ship every time there's bad news on the nightly news report, which is every night there's

There's a reason to get out because the world is coming to an end. And you didn't fall for any of that. And so, you know, you stuck with it and done a great job investing. Congratulations. So, yeah, I mean, I would investigate some other structures out there. I don't think there's anything. I don't think you're being and you didn't present it this way, but I'll say it out loud. I don't think you're being ripped off. But is there a more efficient way to handle it with this much money? Possibly. Yeah.

Maybe there's a portion of it you leave it under management if you like these guys, and there's a portion you pull and say, I'm going to just put this in these six mutual funds, and I'm going to forget it. And, you know, we'll look at it once a year, you know. And so the vast majority of the smart investor pros that we endorse and the people in the industry have moved to the 1% model under the new –

uh, fiduciary rules that are out, they puts them at too much risk to do it the other way. I don't have my personal under that, uh, with my smart investor pro, I've just got it under a, I mean, I buy your shares and they get paid and that's all. And then it sits there. And so they get paid on the front and they're done. Um, but, uh, but most of those guys have moved all of their client base into a 1%. So I'm not shocked to hear you're there.

But, yeah, I think you're asking good questions, and you're asking them with the right kind of heart. And so this is a good time where you're making some assessments, and I'd go to the firm you're with and say, you know, based on the fact I'm over the $5 million mark, is there not some gradient on this fee that maybe you all forgot to apply? Hello, wink, wink. Or talk to the smart investor pros and see if any of them do. I don't know if that's out there, but I know, for instance, if you're –

uh, have a certain amount with a certain mutual fund. They no longer charge any fees. There's break points with the mutual fund companies to where there's no fees charged, no commissions charged and so on. And so, and you're definitely at those break points. So most of them go, most of it goes away at about a million dollars with them. So yeah, I think I'd ask the question. Um,

of your current folks unless you're dissatisfied with them, and then there's no need to ask the question. And I'd check SmartVestorPro at RamseySolutions.com and talk to a couple of those guys and gals and see if they have anything to offer. And maybe you do a portion of it again, and you take a portion of it and self-manage. All self-manages is you're not going to screw with it. That's the trick. The problem people have when they self-manage at the beginning of their investing lives is they jump on and off.

And if you jump on and off the roller coaster, that's who gets hurt. Ride the dadgum ride and you'll be okay. These people, you know, and you need somebody to talk when you're early in the game emotionally, you need someone to talk you off the ledge. And so it's worth every penny. And generally they, they earn their 1% other ways as well. So, um, you know, it's, it's not a bad plan. What's the fiduciary responsibility? What is that? What's that shift?

Well, under the Obama administration, they pushed this stuff through, and it's bogus in my mind, but it's still become the regs, that fiduciary technically means that you do, if I'm a fiduciary for your money, I do what is best for you, not what's best for me. That's what fiduciary technically means. And you could be a fiduciary regardless of how you're paid.

You just have to do what's right for the customer, not what's right for your home pocketbook. You know, look out for the customer first. So a real estate agent that gets paid a commission is technically a fiduciary, but they have a conflict of interest because they're getting paid a commission. So in the investing world, the Obama administration pushed these regs through that said that anyone who's paid a commission is not a fiduciary. But if you're paid a one, if you, so if you're paid a commission, you know, five and three quarter percent on a mutual fund, that's a straight commission on a share of

And then that's it. You never get paid again, but they manage your money for you. And that's how the old smart investor pros all ran it back in the day. But if you do that now, you're liable if they want to sue you for something. If you want to get rid of the liability, you put it under one. If you're one of the investment brokers, you put all the customers in a 1% and you call yourself a fiduciary. Were there instances of individual investors...

funneled their clients into these packages that had bigger returns for them that might not have been the best product or what was the well that was always the auspices that no one that who's paid a commission can do the right thing for the customer that's the absurdity but that's stupid because that's absurd if i'm getting paid a commission i want to continue to do right by you so yeah but you know again it's the obama administration and it was just it was bullcrap yeah

It was supposedly in the name of the consumer, but it really... Well, now the consumer's going to lose more money over the long haul. Hello. That's how that works. Wow. Yeah, that's exactly what happened. So they actually were helping the consumer. We're going to make sure that they get charged more. That's really what it came down to. And that's what Dave is discovering right here. Exactly. This is The Ramsey Show.

I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible, are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly, and they don't have life insurance. When you have to think through how am I going to pay my bills? Yeah.

I'm going to eat next week. Yeah, in the middle of all that grief. Like it's just, it is, it's terrible. So life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here.

You got to say it out loud, and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza. To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282, or go to zander.com. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host. Thanks for joining us. We could use your help. If you want to help us, we would appreciate it.

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Cut out the link and email it to somebody. Say, hey, listen to this. Watch this. Whatever. Maybe you're listening on talk radio. Thank you for that. Just spread the word. Tell people where you're listening, what time we're on, all that kind of stuff. Hey, it's a big deal. It makes a lot of difference, and our numbers are way, way up. So we know you guys are helping us. We know you're out there sharing and leaving those five-star reviews. All that stuff helps everything in these algorithms, and we appreciate it. Cesar is in Mobile, Alabama. Hi, Cesar. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hello Dave, this is Cesar. I wanted to ask you guys if I want to buy an investment property with my uncle who's on disability. I currently already own a home and I got that house for $156,000 at 6.25% APR. My mortgage on that is about $1,200 per month. I have two tenants that

Okay. And what do you make?

I make about four grand. And where do you live? If you rented out the house, do you live in the house with a roommate? Yeah, I live in the house. It's like a roommate sort of deal. How old are you? I live with my girlfriend. I'm 20 years old. Okay. And why do you want to buy an investment property?

So I want to buy an investment property because it, I saw that, you know, being a landlord is really not as hard as I thought it was. I have the, uh,

the what's like the credit for it and i believe that you know that's what i want to do with my life just buying homes either flipping them and renting them out you know i have a home actually that is 300 000 i would me and my uncle um who are splitting everything in the home um is about

We're going to split everything, the down payment, like absolutely everything in the home. The house is worth about $300,000. We're getting about 7% APR, and we will be doing an FHA loan on that. The thing is that my uncle doesn't live in the state, so I would be in charge of maintaining the property, and we would go essentially half-seas on the... And you need your uncle involved. Why? So I need my uncle involved because...

I just got this loan from this VA loan about six months ago, and they're not letting me get another mortgage payment. Okay. Because you're too broke to buy a property. That's why they're not letting you do that. Okay. So the bank is telling you not to do this, and you've figured out the way to beat that is to use an uncle and do it anyway. Yes. Yes, sir. Okay. Okay.

Well, Cesar, I've got just a moment with you to try to offset all of the bull crap you've been reading on the internet about real estate. And I don't know if I'll be able to accomplish the goal of offsetting all of that. I will tell you that when I graduated from college at 22 years old, I bought my first property. By the time I was 26, I had over $4 million worth of real estate with a million dollar net worth.

doing exactly what you're talking about. I had co-signers. I had banks that I had talked into loaning me money. I was flipping houses with no money, and you got no money. And I was buying property basically with no money. And so I was leveraged up to my eyeballs. One of the banks got scared and got sold to another bank, and they looked down and said there's a kid in his 20s

That owes us over a million dollars. And they called the notes on the flips that I was doing. There were 90 day notes and they were called the flip notes. It was a million two. I had 90 days to come up with a million two. I spent the next two and a half years of my life losing everything I owned, getting sued, getting foreclosed on. And finally with a brand new baby, a toddler and a marriage hanging on by a thread, I was bankrupt. That's my story. Okay. That guy, uh,

that did that now owns me several hundred million dollars worth of real estate. I recovered in my 30s and 40s and 50s. I'm sitting in one building that's worth over 600 million right now, and it's debt-free, okay? So just to give you an idea that this can be done. But I never borrowed money again, and I never took on another cosigner because those two things caused me tremendous trouble.

And everybody that I knew that did the type of real estate deals that you're doing, all of my friends in that business were broke too. The only ones that survived were the ones that got out of debt. And you, sir, are walking straight into a razor. And I'm going to beg you not to buy this house. I want you to own real estate.

And I want you to be good at it later. I want you to take your time and pay cash for the next little property you buy. And I think between now and 30 years old, you probably are going to have several properties that you could pay cash for without your uncle and without 7% APR. And just because you can manage three roommates doesn't mean you know how to manage tenants yet. That's a bit of a leap. They're a little different. And I've managed tenants for 40 years. Believe me, I know.

And the idea that the tenant is paying for your house is internet crap because you're paying for your house and you've got some tenants. You will find out that the tenant is not paying for your house when one of them doesn't pay. That's when you'll discover that I, that real estate is not passive at all. It's very active. So I love real estate. I own a bunch of it. I'd love for you to own a bunch of it, but I'd also love for you to avoid a nightmare of,

And I don't know if there's any chance that I talked you out of it because you were completely in. It almost sounds like you've already done the deal and then call me back to bless it. And I'm not going to. If you did that deal, I wish you didn't because you set yourself up for problems. You set your uncle up for problems. You set up relationships for problems. You're living on the edge and you don't even know it. You don't even feel it. You don't, you don't, you've not assessed the risk that you're under correctly.

You've taken on way more risk than your heart is grasping, or you're about to. Please don't. Just take your time. Every time I read the book The Tortoise and the Hare, the tortoise wins. So be the tortoise. That's about all I got, John. Yeah, and again, if that doesn't give you pause, then nothing's going to give you pause. You mentioned this at the very end there. This is a surefire way to...

implode family relationships as well. Yeah, because it's not going to work out. It won't work out, number one. And the uncle's on disability, for God's sakes. And he's in another state. And so when this doesn't work out. Trying to help his little nephew out. But the uncle's brother, his dad's going to call and say, you need to do this. And grandmother's going to call and mom's going to call. And now you're not going to be able to go to Thanksgiving. You're not going to be able to go to Christmas. Everyone always enters into these things only considering the upside. Yeah.

And nobody understands the risk profile. Man, spend your life studying risk. And that's where you'll, man, the fulcrum always has to equilibrate. I used to say it wrong. There's always another side to the fulcrum. Let me say it that way. Yeah. And nobody takes that into consideration when you get starry-eyed, man. Yeah. Go take a cold shower, son. You got house fever. Yeah. Slow your butt down. That's what I would tell you.

Yeah, you made the mistake of calling and asking for my opinion, which I'm 100% of the time going to give you. I'm an expert on my opinion, and I love you, and so I'm going to tell you the truth. This is The Ramsey Show. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. Buffalo, New York is next. Hicks is on the line. Hi, Hicks. How are you? Hey, Jay. How's it going? Better than I deserve. What's up in your world?

Dave, I got a question for you, Dave. I hope you can help me out here. I've been trying to decide which way to go here. Okay, recently retired. I had a medical condition that forced me to retire. Had to take a cut in pay. I owe $90,000 on a $240,000 house. It'll be paid off in seven years. I own my car. I own my truck. The question is this. Having some health issues, I'm thinking about moving.

My wife's been helping me, and now she's pregnant. She needs help. I'm thinking about sending her out to her relatives in another state, and I'm saying, well, if she go out there, who's going to help me? So I'm thinking about relocating, selling the house, and I'm trying to decide, should I keep the house, wait for her to get back in three to four months, sell the house, go out there, and I'm kind of stuck here because I'm trying to get help here, and if I don't... How old are you?

I am 64. And you have a baby on the way? Yes. Okay. How old is your wife? 37. Okay. Cool. All right. And what's the nature of your health problem, sir? I have to do with a muscle condition, rare disorder. They're trying to figure it out as they go along. Okay. So six months, eight months from today, where do you all want to be living with your new baby? Okay.

Preferably in a house that we can afford. This one, but I'm thinking about going to another state. Why? Thinking about just because there's relatives and help out there. Okay. So you've got family in another area, and that's attractive. What area is that? Out in California. That's closer to, I want to say Riverside, closer to Riverside. Mm-hmm.

Well, it's a wee bit different price market than Buffalo, New York, brother.

Uh, yeah, I figured that. Yeah. I think the, uh, monthly storage rates are about $390,000. Yeah. Uh, yeah, I don't, I don't think if you want to do something affordable and your income was just cut and your health is failing and you have a brand new baby on the way, probably the California real estate market is not going to be friendly to you. My friend, I'd be getting my Kansas on Hicks. Yeah.

I'd be looking for it. Kansas or West Texas. That's where I'd be going. Some place that's affordable and or stay where you are. You don't have friends and family there? Yeah, I do. I feel like a lot of people are busy. Yeah, they're busy in California too. What does that mean that they're busy? People don't want to help you? They help us as they can. Are you specific in your help requests?

Yeah, I got some help, and then I told them what's going on with the doctors back and forth. It came on so suddenly I really didn't have a chance to catch my breath too much. They say it's rare, and they don't see it that much, and they're doing all these different things to try to help me. Does your wife work outside the home, sir? She did until she got further along in her pregnancy. Yeah, okay.

Because it sounds like you all are going to need her income to come back after the baby comes. Is that fair? Yep, that's exactly what we've been talking about. Exactly. So that's why I'm at Dave. I don't have a magic wand. If you told me a bunch of friends and family were in an affordable market, I would be all for this. You're talking about moving to one of the more expensive areas in the world.

Okay. And so, you know, Riverside is just not cheap, man. And it's not, you know, your mind's going to be blown what it'll take to buy a house like you've got right now there. And so it's just not transferable. I think the help you would gain is going to be far offset by the increased cost, and I don't think it's going to be worth it. So if you have a different location with some family that is an affordable location, maybe the move makes sense.

But I think you guys have got to continue to talk through where you want to be

that you can afford to live and prosper with the current situation you find yourself in a new baby, 37 year old wife, it's working. You've got, uh, a muscular disorder of some kind. And, um, you're trying to, you know, where do I want to be living in that situation? What for this next chapter of my life and it, and that, that I can afford. And I think if you make a visit out to, uh,

the California market that you're talking about, I think you're going to discover quickly that that's not affordable to you with what you're describing to me. So I might be wrong. You might, there may be something I don't know, but so you could go, go look at it. It doesn't cost that much to go look. Um, but, um, I'm going to have a plan B. If we don't go there, what are we going to do? And then, um, then under that situation, I'll go look, but don't, don't tell me you were forced to move to an area you can't afford because you're not forced.

You just got to make some different choices there in Buffalo, man. I'm sorry. I wish I had a magic wand that can make all this go away. And I don't, there's not a good answer to that bad situation. Folks. There's just some answers. There's just some, we can just kind of walk with you and think with you while you're facing these things, but there's not a,

You know, there's not a simple thing. You just go do that. It's not. There's a lot going on here, and all we can do is just sit here and be a sounding board with you and bounce those ideas back at you and see if they sound crazy when they come back at you across the net. Yeah, and just a quick note, if you were reaching out and everyone sounds busy, everyone's got quote-unquote stuff going on,

It doesn't work every time, but often people will send a text message to some friends and say, hey, I've got some health struggles or I've got some challenges. I'd love to get together for some coffee. Well, man, now people are wondering, well, who's on this text thread? How many people? It's like, I'm just going to wait. And then nobody responds. It's different when you say, hey, Dave, I've been really struggling. Is there a chance that you and I can get together tomorrow at 10 o'clock? I'm going to get coffee. I'm buying. I'd love it if you met me there.

That's a specific request that I want to meet with you. I want to talk to you. And people are much more likely to respond to that.

and to respond affirmatively, like I'll be there or I can't make that one, but I can do this date at noon. And so instead of just throwing these vague grenade balloons that just kind of loft out over, be specific, be at risk. Some people saying I can't show up for you. Yeah, I got, listen, I need to ride the doctor tomorrow. Can you help me? Can you pick me up at seven o'clock? Yeah. I got a doctor's appointment at eight.

Be specific. Boom. People will say yes or no. Yes or no. That's right. And by the way, you've got to be okay with their no if they're busy. That's okay. That's right. But you're more likely to get it. I can't do that, but I can get cousin Judy to come to it. I got your Uber tomorrow. Great. I'll cover your Uber. That's right. That's it. That's it.

That's the way you work it. Yeah, very specific in the thing. Because when I hear, I've got a friend in the hospital right this second, and when I'm talking to her husband back and forth, I'm like, okay, well, what can we do to help?

How can we help you? I mean, how can we serve you? You want to share and make you dinner? I mean, can we come over? Do you want to? No, no. Okay. I started having to suggest. Of course, that's okay. I don't mind that. I'm not complaining, but I'm saying. But that's a close friend. If it's just this vague kind of out there, and even then, sometimes when it's kind of that vague, I'll say, okay.

Me and Sheila are bringing dinner tomorrow. We're going to be there at 6 o'clock. If that doesn't work for you, you've got to let me know. Yeah. And then sometimes they'll go, all right, thank God. Yeah. And then sometimes they'll say, well, we've got four other dinners. Tomorrow night's not a good day, but I'm going to be specific. That's exactly what Sharon did. That's exactly how that works. Good. That's a good call out. Good call out. So Hicks, the people that are busy around you, you might get more help if you're specific, as John's point, if you're there in Buffalo. This is The Ramsey Show.

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to that retirement home on the beach. Download EveryDollar for free on the App Store or Google Play. Remember, today, download EveryDollar for free on the App Store or Google Play today. Thanks for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Patrick's in Fort Worth. Hi, Patrick. How are you?

I'm doing good, Dave. Good. How can I help? Hey, I've got a question. I've got a question. I've got a patent pending on a mobile application and I'm wanting to raise funds to get my MVP off the ground. Right. Um, and I've, I've had a friend of mine in, and then offered to give me a loan to do this, but I've been listening to you since I was 12 years old. Um, well,

lost everything last year in a divorce, literally everything. And I'm wanting to go back up, but I don't want to give up my entire percentage of my company and getting with a traditional investor. And I really don't have access to traditional investors. So I'm just kind of curious because it's kind of hard to crowdfund with a patent pending also. So I'm just kind of curious what you might...

have on that okay um so remind me again what the patent is on okay it's a on a mobile application a mobile application like a phone application like an app for your phone and why do you have to have a patent for a phone app well it's just it's just something new that is uh well i mean it's a i mean you're going to put it in the apple store and you're going to put it in the google play store

And people are going to download it onto their phone, right? Right. But it's a new and novel idea that nobody has ever put into play before. You don't need a patent for that. Is it a copyright? You don't need a patent for that. No, no. He told me I couldn't copyright it. But basically it would make it to where somebody else couldn't redo that app. They couldn't make another, you know, because I've started the process to patent a process in the app.

Okay, so how much are you spending to get the patent pending? I've already paid that. Oh, okay, so you're done. I've already paid that. So why do you need money to launch something in the Apple Store? It doesn't cost anything. Well, in order to get the...

the actual application built, the MVP, the minimum viable product, and to build that. Oh, you've not built the app yet? No. You're patent pending the idea or the technology? No, the technology is not done. Yeah.

It's not. Okay. Are you not a programmer? You're not an engineer? I'm not. No, no. I've been a mom since I was 16 years old. I bought my first business at 24. I bought and sold several different businesses. I mean, I've, but I lost everything last year and I'm just starting over. Okay. So all you need is the engineering done. Right. You need a software engineer, right? Mm-hmm. So what's it going to cost to turn this idea into an app? Uh,

The lowest quote I've got is around $24,000 to $35,000. Okay. You know, we've built a bunch of apps here. We've got apps all in the store. I mean, I put them up, taken them down. We've got a little thing called the EveryDollar app that we've got a lot more than that invested in, obviously, but we've also got, you know, tens of millions of people in it and all that. But even out of the gate, we had more than that in it. So, yeah.

I'm just trying to think how we would do it, because I don't borrow money and I don't bring in outside investors. You know that. You said you've been listening. I don't want to give up. I wouldn't do it. What I would do... I mean, he even told me he would give it to me at 5%, but I don't want to take a loan on it.

No, don't take money from your friend. No, what part of no? You've been listening to us. You knew I was going to tell you not to do any of this. What's your panic? Like, what's the, you feel panicked? Are you about to get beat to market or something? If you hold a patent, can't you exhale and go earn $30,000? Well, the thing is, yes, I have probably eight to nine months left of the status. My lawyer, he wants to do a non-provisional, which is potentially going to be 20 years protected, right? Right.

My uncle was an engineer, not in mobile stuff, but that's how he made his money. He invented one of the largest crash compactors in the United States. I've run by the seat of my pants in business. What do you... Yeah, I know. I can tell. What do you... Do you have a job? Yeah, I'm a truck driver. So I've always... I've got my CDL, and I've bought and sold three different semi-trucks, but I lost...

I lost almost $400,000 income last year during the divorce, and I was paying $3,000 a month in child support, and it just ate me alive. I did have $15,000 in debt in that, but I've— Okay, let me stop you. There's something in this situation that smells to high heaven of desperation. Like, you sound so desperate.

You called it an application when you were talking to us. And it's not. It's like an app. It's a phone app, for God's sakes. This is not rocket surgery. Right. And you sound so in a hurry and so chaotic and so desperate. And all of those things tell me you're getting ready to do something really stupid.

because every time I get that sound in my voice like a beagle chasing a rabbit, that's about the time I'm about to do something dumb. And I can hear it on you. I'm just being honest with you, all right? So what I would tell you to do is this. I would tell you to slow your butt down. Take a breath.

Okay. That's what I'm going to tell you to do. And then if you want to proceed with this, the only idea that comes to mind structurally on how to pull this off is to find a good software engineer and tell them you will pay them double their rate out of the proceeds. And so if this thing is really a big deal, okay, you know, it's $24,000 worth of stuff. I'm going to pay you

$48,000, the first $48,000 that we make on this, I'm going to pay you out and I'm going to pay you double. And then they're done. And the problem is as soon as you get the thing up and here's what I'll teach you about apps, they're not one and done. You can't ship it and forget it. 100% of apps that go out that are successful are constantly being worked on and iterated.

The negative thing about digital is you have to constantly work on it. The great thing about digital is you get to constantly make it better. So you're not frozen. When I print a book, it's either good or bad. I'm stuck with it. It's on the shelf for the next 40 years. It's a printed book.

When I put something out in the digital world, I can change it tomorrow and I can change it the next day and I can change it the next day and make it better as I go along, and I will. And so the EveryDollar budgeting app does not even resemble the app that was launched under the name EveryDollar originally. It has iterated and upgraded, iterated and upgraded, iterated and upgraded almost every other week for years.

And so your software engineering costs have just begun, my friend, if this is actually going to work and be successful. Your patent stuff is probably early and tremendous overkill.

Um, you know, the number of times that people steal something on an Apple store is just not that big. It doesn't happen much except the Chinese steel and stuff. Right. And, and duplicating it. But I mean, I'm talking about the number of times that someone just comes in and scarfs up an idea that because you didn't have it patented. Um, so, you know, it's, you know, I don't, I'm pretty sure none of the budgeting apps out there that are the top budgeting apps are patented just to give you an idea.

And of course, here's the other thing. As soon as you patent it, you're going to iterate it and change it. So then you got to update the dadgum pay. Yeah, this is not, I don't know. I, so yeah, I do know I would slow down, breathe. If you want to involve a software engineer and pay them 1.5 or pay them two, 2.0, what they're worth, but they only get paid out of the proceeds. And if there are never any proceeds, they get nothing. If it never works, they put in their money for nothing. If they want to join the venture, uh,

for some extra money, that might be a way to draw somebody in. But the other thing you could do is you just could go make some money, like John said, and then just write somebody a check to have the first round of software engineering done. But be prepared. As soon as you start making a little money, you're going to spend most of that back into new software engineering because you're going to upgrade and iterate, upgrade and iterate. You do not ship it and forget it in the digital world, my friend. This is the Ramsey Show.

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships.

Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author of the book Building a Non-Anxious Life, and host of the Dr. John Deloney Show on the Ramsey Network. He's my co-host today. Open phones here at 888-825-5225. Isabel is in Nashville. Hi, Isabel. How are you? Hi, Dave. It's so great to talk to you. You too. What's up?

Well, we've got, we enjoyed four years of a gorgeous home upscale area, suburb of Nashville and our home has risen in value to nearly a million dollars. So we're in this gorgeous area, beautiful views and all of a sudden our neighbor is

decided to raise their yard, their entire yard. We have a half an acre and theirs is a large yard too. So they decided to put in a pool and we have a six foot privacy fence between us and they decided to raise their entire yard up seven feet. So it's a foot above the privacy fence. And basically they created an inescapable, bigger than life facility

very colorful scene. It looks like a stage and everything is lifted up. It's got, you know, they've got everything, huge flotation toys in motion. They've got people, curtains, flags. The whole scene is a big beach scene, but it's in disarray and it's a year round. They don't really clean it up. I'm just shocked that the HOA

I mean, it's a very visible, you can see it actually, our house is the model home. And when you come into the subdivision, you can kind of see it, you know, through past our house. Is there any chance that your neighbors are Winston and Rachel Cruz?

No. I know they're putting in a pool. I was just making sure that wasn't them. Oh, no. At this point, their pool is not that far along, so we know it's not them. I thought our situation was completely unique. We're a military family. It lived all over the world. I've never seen this before. Okay, so, wow.

The only, I mean, if the HOA, if it's not in violation of anything in the CCRs, the HOA has no enforcement rights, which they probably don't unless it's some kind of visual from the road. Um, uh, the only other thing I can think is if they violated code in some way, putting it in, if they didn't pull permits to put all of it in, but if they pull permits in the city or the County approved all of the, uh, installation, um,

You're not left with a lot of options except plant some large trees. Yeah, and we've looked into that, and it would have to be evergreens, and they would have to be at least 10 feet tall. Well, if you just put in 10-footers and then pour the water to them in your area, they'll grow like a weed.

Well, you know, in the home improvement request form, I did ask the – they want me to send pictures and my issue. And so they want me to send that to them. But they did tell me that in the home improvement request form, they do require that anything, any structure –

They have to be told the height and everything else about it and the look of it and everything. And they said that that was not provided for them. When they look at that request form, there's nothing that indicates they're going to raise the land. And he said that they would have said that we can't.

They already said we did turn them down when they wanted to extend their porch and keep the height of it and extend it. And they got a no from the HOA. It's a pretty strict HOA. These homes are, you know, $800 to a million. And so it's pretty strict. So I can't imagine. Oh, I'm sorry. Apparently it's not pretty strict.

It was pretty strict as soon as they started backing dump trucks up and raising the entire backyard seven feet. Somebody would have stopped them if they were strict. So they're not real strict at all. Do you think they're just lazy and didn't notice? Yeah, that's not strict, though. You can't raise half an acre seven feet and have nobody notice. That's a lot of trucks. And why didn't you guys bark when you started seeing that?

We're so busy with my parents live with us. We're doing so much that we, and then we keep to ourselves and we don't, you know, it wasn't apparent until they were done with it. It just looked like they were digging. It's apparent when you have 32 dump trucks in the backyard that something big's going on.

um yeah it was apparent i mean what you're describing is a major construction thing and yeah you had to notice that if you live next door i mean it's like they're building another house back there um obviously you didn't know how it was going to turn out but you saw an amazing amount of activity and i wish i mean if you because now to undo it they got to dig the whole thing out that's not going to happen unless they did not pull permits and the city makes them take it all out

I don't even think that will happen. The only thing I can see them is they're, they would find their butt until they made them take it out. I mean, if they find you or maybe they'll pay for the trees. No, I'm saying let the neighbor pay for the trees, but I'm just saying, yeah, I think you're going to be planning some large evergreens and putting water to them. And I think you're done. Uh,

It doesn't sound like you're going to get anything else. The HOA is not going to have the power to make them take it out after they approve them putting it in. The city might, they might find them or the county by the day until they remove the whole thing if they did it without a permit. If they did it with a permit, it's their land. And, you know, it's unsightly, but it's perfectly legal. So nothing else to be done except plant some trees. So I think you're probably down to planting some evergreens and calling it a day.

and or that and move one of the two but um you know i've got a couple of properties that we had uh that we wanted to put up a buffer on for different reasons not that it's not similar reasons to this but we planted some of those and we're in the same area she's in and i planted some of the um some evergreens along the line of it and i mean two years later these things are

you know, gigantuan and they put up a complete barrier. It's so complete. You don't even know anything. It's the other side of it. Now it won't block noise, but if you've got that much noise, you just call the police for public disorder. Yeah. And at some point public nuisance, you go next door and you meet your neighbors and you say, guys, y'all got to keep it down over here. Yeah. Can you help us out? Or,

You know, if you don't wear, you know, and they go, okay, you know, but, you know, and I have had that. I walked next door in another property where the kids were up at three o'clock in the morning. The music was playing where you could hear it four towns over. And I'm like, Hey guys, we're trying to sleep over here. Y'all get cut this. Oh, I'm so sorry. You're so drunk. Yeah, I know. But turn the music down. I'll never forget moving into my first house, Dave and the neighbors through a party. And I remember walking out the back, the back door.

And I went back inside and said, Sheila, my wife, they could have heard everything. She said, what do you mean? And for some reason in college, I thought if you were in a fenced yard, that was a sound barrier. And I was like, oh, no. There's some neighbors that have heard some stuff. Not super great. I love it. I'm sorry you're facing all that, Isabel. I hate that for you. For those of us in the future, we notice things differently.

quicker intervene sooner and then we can have better control but i don't think you're going to have a situation where this is undone uh you might uh with us again with the city if they didn't pull proper permits but i got a feeling they did and i got a feeling you're baked so you're probably planting some evergreens calling it a day this is the ramsey show

Listen, tickets for the Live Like No One Else cruise are selling fast. This is the ultimate debt-free vacation, and I can't wait to celebrate with all the folks who've worked their butts off and changed their family trees. We will be sailing through the blue waters of the Caribbean with the Ramsey personalities.

and other special guests. A bunch of cabin options are already sold out, so hurry and reserve yours with a $600 deposit today at ramseysolutions.com slash events. We teach you in the first three steps of the baby steps to get completely out of debt except the house and build an emergency fund and be very intense while you're doing that. Like so intense that you're like a gazelle running from the cheetah. You're trying to stay alive.

Intense, like no life, like drop an atom bomb on your lifestyle. Nothing left, right? Scorched earth, right? And so then once you break through and you have your emergency fund and you're debt-free, then you move from intense to intentional at baby step four. That's when you start investing and things change. But you pay a price to win, so we teach you to live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else. So at the first part, you're living like no one else. It's a pain in the butt.

But later, you get to live and give like no one else. So we are doing, for Baby Step 4 and beyond folks, the Live Like No One Else Cruise. On the Holland America Cruise Line, the Ramsey folk are going to be the only ones on this ship. And the entire Ramsey personality lineup will be there, along with Stephen Curtis Chapman, along with Manit Chauhan from the Food Channel.

along with Dina Carter. Lots of other celebs are going to be traveling with us. It's a complete Ramsey cruise. It's called the Live Like No One Else cruise. And again, the Holland America ship is absolutely amazing. There are just a few cabins left. You can still come. We would love to have you. We'll be going to Turks and Caicos, St. Thomas, Puerto Rico, the Bahamas. It's only a $600 deposit there.

And we sail next March 22nd through the 29th of 2025. We'd love to have you with us. And you should probably get this book because I don't know if I'm going to do another one. This is a thing. We're going to be on the boat with you for seven days, boys and girls. So come on out. We'd love to have you. RamseySolutions.com slash cruise. Our question of the day today comes from Allison in Wisconsin.

I read this one early, Dave, and I already have a little bit of indigestion. Maybe a touch of the hemorrhoids. Here we go. Question comes from Allison in Wisconsin. Allison writes, my 30-year-old son has never maintained stable employment and often asks me to quote-unquote spot him alone. I've given him a lot of money over the years because I feel guilty for divorcing his father when he was just 16.

I've exhausted my savings and hope to retire in the next two years. He lost his job about a month ago, moved to a different state with no job lined up, and I've given him several hundred dollars already. I don't want him homeless or hungry, but I can't keep bailing him out because he makes irresponsible decisions. Can I cut him off? Please, God, cut him off. Please. Right now. He's useless. Today. And it's your fault.

Stop it. As Eminem said, you've created a monster. You've got to cut him off. You have to. Oh, God. It's disgusting. Actually, call him and say that you're sorry. Yeah, I'm so sorry. I've enabled you into stupidity and laziness and irresponsibility. And I love you so much. I'm not going to do it anymore. My favorite quote from our buddy Henry, Henry Cloud says, the greatest gift you could give this young man, this 30-year-old young man, is some problems. Yep.

That's like going to the gym and stop taking the weight off the bar for him. He's got to learn to lift. He needs some new problems. Right. He's some strength. Yeah. He can only get that bike. He'll find his way or he won't. You can't fix it now. I mean, he's, you know, honey, I recommend a good church and a good job and regularly attend both. And all of a sudden things will start to straighten out in your life, young man.

uh but yeah what i and by the way allison he's gonna stop calling you and he's gonna blame you who gives a crap and these are not your these are you gotta move on yeah yeah because you create a pattern where he he's gonna be pissed off when you don't keep giving him free money and coddling him but yeah honey you've really this is you you you need to love your son better

You need to love him enough to let him grow and love him enough to let him feel the pain of his decisions. And that's a hard type of love. That's tough love. No, it's just real love. Enabling is not like soft and cuddly love. Enabling creates stupid people. And that's what she's done. Enablers are nice, sweet people. They're just weak.

They just don't have the strength to love well. When I enable someone, it's because I'm too stinking emotionally lazy to stand in and tell somebody the truth and love them well. And instead, I'll just throw some money at it and get away from them. And that's just laziness. You know, that's really what enabling is. And it just, the enablers are the nicest people on the planet. They never upset anybody except themselves.

And so it just, gosh, and when I'm an enabler, I'm much nicer than when I'm not. But the bottom line is, though, it's like, okay, is a surgeon nice who refuses to cut you because it's going to hurt when he cuts you? No, they're not nice. You mean when they do surgery that that's tough love? No, it's just love. They use the scalpel.

doing as little damage as possible, inflicting some pain to remove a greater pain, right? And that's exactly what you've got to do, Allison. God, this is aggravating. You're right. Indigestion, among other results. There we go. Steve's in Salt Lake City. Steve, what's up in your world?

Hi, Dave. Hi, John. It's a great pleasure to speak with you. You too, sir. How can we help? Well, so here's my situation. My wife and I are on baby step seven. Good. Thank you for all that you taught us. We actually visited your office back in October and did our debt-free stream and got to meet you. It was just awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you. Yeah. So I'm 50 years old.

And we're going to be just fine if I wanted to wait till age 59 and a half to retire. But I keep thinking about retiring all the time. And so I'm trying to figure out a way to do it earlier. And when we hit baby step seven, I took my retirement savings 401k from 15% up to 25% just to try to save like crazy. How much is in there now?

About $750,000. Cool. And your house is paid for. What's it worth? Paid for about $620,000 last time I checked. So you're Baby Steps Millionaires. Congratulations. Well, thank you very much. That's what you told us at the office. Yeah, very good. Well done. Okay. So my question is, I can't touch any of this money in my 401k until I'm at retirement age. I'm just wondering if it could make sense for me to take that 10%

and put it into a regular brokerage account so that I can access that whenever I want to, whenever I want to see if I can retire. Doesn't need to be in a brokerage account. I just put it in some mutual funds, what we call bridge investing to get to money you can get to before retirement. If you want to fund some, put a couple hundred thousand, it sounds like in...

You know, you'd be able to do that. Yeah. The other thing that always comes up in this situation, though, is if you retire at 55, you intend to do no work for the next 40 years of any kind. No, not at all. My wife and I would make a plan. Okay. So you might be able to, you might be creating enough income to live on.

And I'm not talking about being a Walmart greeter. I mean, it may be this whole thing, a whole other career, an encore thing. Oh, well, one thing I didn't tell you is one of the things that we really got gazelle intense was I created a side hustle. That's what helped paid our house off a lot faster. And it nets me about $20,000 a year right now. I just kept doing it. And so I imagine I would keep doing that. Or could I just... What do you make at your job?

About $100,000. I'm thinking about something that makes you $200,000 a year. That's more fun than your job because you're wanting to quit your job. You're not wanting to not work. Yeah, I was hoping you wouldn't see India, but you did. That's all it is. I mean, you're not afraid of work. Hey, I'm continuing to work because I love it. Not because I need the money. I love what I'm doing. I'm going to continue to work until they don't let me anymore because I don't make sense. So, yeah.

There's so many places I could go right now with that. We're getting close. That's all I'm saying. We're getting close. It could happen any minute. Even if you're the president, it could happen. This is The Ramsey Show.

It's way too easy to put off making a will. And believe me, I've heard every excuse in the book. But not having the time is one excuse we can kick to the curb right now. Because these days, most folks can make a legally binding will on their laptop

between loads of laundry. If you're wondering if you can make your will online or if you need a lawyer, we have a quiz to help you figure that out in less than five minutes. Just go to ramseysolutions.com slash wills quiz. ramseysolutions.com slash wills quiz. Selling or buying a home in this current real estate world can either be a curse or a blessing.

And the difference is not the economy or the interest rates. The difference is whether you're ready and whether you go through the process and select the right price range of home for your situation. Getting plugged into a Ramsey trusted real estate agent will help you do it the right way. And then home ownership can be a blessing. Selling a home can be a blessing. And we have vetted these high protein, high octane agents, and they do a great job. There are people that sell homes.

a bazillion houses, not two a year. If you sell two houses a year, I'm happy for you, but you won't be a Ramsey trusted real estate agent because I want someone that I'm going to send our listeners to that actually does a lot of transactions and therefore is going to help you do a lot of do a transaction. That's what it comes down to. So if you want to know who we trust in your area, find a Ramsey trusted real estate agent for free.

and ramseysolutions.com slash agent. Matt is with us in Portland, Maine. Hi, Matt. How are you? I'm good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Yeah, so I had a question. So I have about $25,000 left in school debt, $25,000, and I have the cash to pay it off, but I'm wondering if I should pay it off right now or if I should continue with the state program we have here in Maine where if you went for a certain degree and you live and work in the state, they will pay off your loan up to $2,500 a year for a max of $25,000. So over that time, it will cover it. So

So really I'm wondering if I should just continue that program or if I have the means to do it, just pay off the debt and never have to think about it again. So let me make sure I understand the question. Do I pay off my loans today with money that I have or do I let the state pay it off and I stay in debt for 10 more years? Yes. That is the question. Yeah. Well, that's kind of a no-brainer. Pay it off today. You know why? You know why? Why?

Because building wealth is not about borrowing money. Building wealth is about avoiding borrowed money. So the faster you get this paid off, the faster you're on your wealth building journey. What do you make a year? Okay, 90. Yeah, you are your secret sauce, not some main state company.

Okay. $2,500 a year is not going to make you rich. What's going to make you rich is you getting out of your own way. You are already a saver. You are already a high income earner. You are doing a great job. Let's use Matt as the solution to our problems and our challenges and our opportunities because Matt is a stud.

The state of Maine, eh, not so much. Yeah, Matt, can we walk backwards in history real quick? Sure. Our current president is 1,000 years old. The president before him hosted a reality TV show. The president before him was a first-term senator. The president before, like, in 10 years? You tell me what the leadership of Maine is going to look like. You don't know. Bro, I'd rather give myself 10 years of freedom

If I've got that money in my account, right? Yeah, we have no idea. It could all be amazing and it could all not. All I think all of us have learned. There's just, we don't know the rules anymore. And so I would take what I could control, which is I'm out of debt today. I would take what I can control and control the heck out of it. Yeah. Control the controllables. And that is you're out of debt. And then you use your wealth building, your largest wealth building tool, which is your income, not avoidant, not debt repayment avoidance,

to build wealth all the millionaires we interviewed none of them said you know i used that student loan payoff program and that's how i built wealth none of them said that they all said i took control of the controllables i got out of debt you didn't have any payments and i jacked and stacked money and i tell you what i'm still burned with those programs did some of my top students who chose to go to public service because of these promises and just got cooked man so i i've

I just have no faith in those programs. Not because I don't have any faith in the people that institute them. On either side of the aisle, you bozos. So seriously. Because you keep making the loans. And if they're so stinking bad, you shouldn't keep making them. This is me talking to Congress again. You should go testify before Congress. Your congressman invited you. I know, but I try not to do things that are a waste of time.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. Zachary is in Columbus, Georgia. Hi, Zachary. How are you? Good. What about yourself? Better than I deserve. What's up? So me and my girlfriend are planning on buying a house in two years, and I was wondering if I have an 800 credit score, if I should let it go to zero, or if I should uphold this and continue on that path. Okay.

Well, number one, don't buy a house with somebody you're not married to. Really dumb idea. You're going to get burned. Okay. If you want to buy a house and have a roommate, that's your decision. But don't buy a house with somebody you're not married to. Don't put her name on anything unless she's your wife or don't put your name on anything as hers unless you're her husband.

you'll get into a mess. And I talk to those people every day on this show, and they will tell you over and over, don't do that. So now then back to you buying a house and answering your question. Are you 100% debt-free right now? Yes, sir. Okay. You're not going to maintain an 800 credit score then, unless you go back in debt. You just got to go back in debt.

Yeah. I've only been maintaining it with credit cards anyways. Yeah. Yeah. So you're going to have to continue to borrow money and pay it back to maintain an 800. Because the 800 credit score is a Ponzi scheme. Yeah. Hmm. How old are you? 28. What do you make? I make approximately $40,000 a year. Hmm. Okay. Hmm.

Well, the only way I know how to answer questions is if I was in your shoes. I'm a single guy. Someday I might be marrying. Two years from now, I'm thinking about buying a house when I'm 30. I make $40,000 a year, and the only way to maintain my 800 credit score is to continue to go into debt. What would I do if I woke up there? I would not maintain it. I would let it go to zero and do manual underwriting to buy my house because I am well aware that the whole credit score thing is a scam.

The only way you run your credit score up is go into debt. Why do you do that? So you can go into debt. So why? So I can run my score up. Why? So I can go into debt. Why? So I can run my score up. Why? So I can go into debt. It's a dog chasing its dadgum tail. And all you do is get dizzy. And then people walk around. And I was at a party the other night. And the guy goes, yeah, dude, but I have an 800 credit score. And I'm like, gee, bless your heart, man. It's cost you at least 100 grand in interest.

So, because the only thing you can do is just worship at the altar of the great FICO. Great FICO, we bring you offerings of interest. So, you know, and that's what Americans have done. They've fallen for the biggest scam in history, which is the FICO score.

So, yeah, I'd let it go, Zach, if it was me. But please don't buy a house for your girlfriend, dude. And I don't think you heard that. I want to be real clear. John, we get those calls and they're really particularly heartbreaking. Yeah, because nobody sets out to buy a house with anybody, their spouse or their boyfriend or girlfriend.

Without thinking this is forever. And we wouldn't have a show if everyone's plans worked out exactly like they thought they were going to. And they just don't. We would, but it wouldn't be nearly as entertaining. That's right.

And by the way, all your folks' plans that didn't work out, you're great radio. My guess is that Zachary can only buy a house if he has somebody else's income attached to it because he only makes $40,000. And so maybe the conversation is if I really want to be a homeowner in two years, then I'm going to figure out ways to up my income in pretty dramatic fashion. Yeah.

and not just settle for a $40,000 a year life at the age of in my mid-20s. I'm going to go for it. Or if you love your job, that's cool. It's just going to be longer than two years before you save up that kind of down payment. Figure out a way to make some serious money. Yeah. Or put a ring on it. Marry the girl. There you go. This is The Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 16, 3. Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and he will establish your paths. Plans. I'm sorry.

Maya Angelou said, you may not control all the events that happen to you, but you can decide not to be reduced by them. Hmm, that's cool. All right, Travis is with us in Dayton, Ohio. Hi, Travis, how are you? Good, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I got a question about some investing stuff. I don't know a whole lot about investing, but I know stuff about sports cards, and I was wanting to get your input on if you thought that was a decent thing or if that was just like a childish hobby. Okay.

Uh, it's neither. It's not a childish hobby and it's not an investment. It's a collectible. Um, and collectibles should not be where you put your investments. Um, you can make money in collectibles. Uh, and if you've got an expertise in that area and a knowledge in that area, that's fine. Uh, but there's very little data that shows that people build fortune in collectibles. Very few people do.

And so whether it's art or cards or coins or whatever it is you want to that goes up in value and because of scarcity and uniqueness and so forth.

I don't think it's childish at all. I've got a lot of different collections. I'm kind of a collectible type person, but none of that is considered an investment by me. It's just something that's fun, and it's an added benefit that not only is it fun, but it goes up in value. And that's kind of part of the game for me. Like I've got a ridiculous gun collection.

many of which are what we call safe queens in that world, meaning that she's going to stay in the safe and never be shot, never have a bullet go through her, which makes her go up in value, right? So that kind of stuff. So I've got that kind of stuff. I've got some unusual firearms. I've got some valuable firearms in that collection, and I've just enjoyed it. And I shoot some of them, obviously, but not all.

And so that's not childish or manly or anything. It's just a collection. It's just that. And yours is not childish. It's a fun collection because it does sometimes tie back to our childhood or tie back to maybe something you did with your uncle or your dad or something, and that's cool. But again, the data on it as an investment, no, I would never call those an investment. So it should be something you do in addition to your investing.

Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, but it's valid. I mean, I would imagine. How many cards have you got? I've started a third collection. The first two I sold for probably a total of 5,000, but now I probably got close to 6,000 cards. That are worth probably what? I just sent five in, and when I get them back, they should equal out to about $1,500. The whole bunch? Or just those five? I'm asking what the 6,000 cards is worth.

20 grand? Probably all together about 20 grand. Yeah, okay. All right. So obviously you're not going to retire on that. No. So that's fine. Like I've got a buddy that collects knives, and he's probably got $30,000 worth of knives that he'll never sell because he didn't have to, A. But, B, a lot of them have interesting –

memories attached to them because he bought them when he traveled and things like that. So, yeah, that's cool. Nothing wrong with that at all. And no, I would not call it horrible or childish or something like that. And if you do it properly, as you've discovered, they do go up in value and you may take joy in turning the whole portfolio over ever so often. And that's fine. But I'm just going to call it a hobby that works and a collectible that works because collectibles, you know, art should go up in value.

If you're doing this right, the portfolio you've got should go up in value, but it's not enough to, uh, to justify. You're not going to end up with a million dollars in your 401k, you know, and you need a million dollars in your 401k. That's where I want you to go. Good question. That's fun. Yeah. And it reminds me of that conversation. Warren do it. Oh, you got guitars. You play. Oh, I collect, dude. I got so many collections. I used to collect cards like crazy. I love it. Uh,

It reminds me of the conversation that Buffett had with some kids that were pressuring him on Bitcoin. And I loved that conversation about like, if I'm investing in something, it has to be in and of itself of value. Not that I have to sell it so that I can get a thing so that I can go buy a thing of value.

And that was a good reminder for me. Like if I'm investing in something, I'm going to invest in a company that's going up in value or in a mutual fund that's a budget company. Something that's creating money. That's creating value. It's not driven purely by the nuance of shortage. There you go. Yeah, and that's what...

A commodity is what he's discussing, and that's what Bitcoin is, why he hates Bitcoin and why I hate it. It's because it's a commodity. It's not really an investment. And so when you put money in something like that, it's speculation, not investing. A whole bunch of people said that Mickey Mantle card, we're all going to say it's that much.

right but you can't eat it you can't you can't power a car with it you can't do a thing with it now there's enough of a market there's probably more of a market for that mickey mental card than there is the bitcoin because you can at least hold the mickey mental card yeah at least touch it it's not an nft yeah so yeah there's that so but i completely validate you collecting i love collecting but just don't categorize it in your instead of investing like you know

I know a guy that has passed away now. There's a billionaire, and I got to visit his car collection. He had three different buildings full of cars, and there were some really cool cars in there. I got my picture made with some of them. There were some of them from movies and things that he bought off the, and they were really neat. But it had nothing to do with his net worth. His net worth is a completely different thing. That car collection was just like Travis with his cards or me with my guns. It was just for fun.

Just for fun. That's simple. Good question, sir. Thank you. Garrett is in Phoenix. Hi, Garrett. How are you? I'm doing good. How are you, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hey, I'm getting married at the end of this month. Congratulations. Thank you, sir. We're going through combining our finances, and I have a fully funded emergency fund. She has a bit of money in savings. But I'm wondering, should I empty my brokerage account to...

I'll finish funding that emergency fund together. I'm confused. You said I have a fully funded emergency fund. I do for me, yes. But when her and I get married, it won't be fully funded for both of our... I see. And how much does she have in savings? About $4,000. And how much is in your fully funded emergency fund? $10,000. Okay. And what do you need? $18,000. To be... You call that three to six months. Okay. And you'd have $14,000, right? Between the two of you. And you have how much in your brokerage account?

About $6,500. Oh, okay. Yeah, liquidate it. Sure. Liquidate it. Yeah, that's fine. And then start your investing plan based on the fact. Are you 100% debt-free at that point? Yes, sir. 100% debt-free, 15% going into retirement. Yeah, you're going to be just fine then. And then when you get the house, get it paid off and work your baby steps. Yeah, you're right on track, dude. Well done. Good stuff. Jessica's in Scranton, Pennsylvania. Hi, Jessica. How are you?

Hi, good afternoon. Thank you for taking my call. Sure, what's up? My father wants to gift my brother and I his house. Currently, he's 75. Why? And he wants to gift it to us now with him and his wife having life rights so that when he passes, we don't have to pay inheritance tax. You don't have to pay inheritance tax. He does not have a net worth of over $20 million, does he? No, not at all. There's no inheritance tax. Okay. Okay.

There might be a probate tax in Pennsylvania, but it will pale in comparison to this stupid move and what it will do to your capital gains. Because if he gives you his house, his basis becomes your basis. And when you all sell it someday, you're going to pay tax on everything above what he paid for the house originally. Dumb. If, however, you receive the house upon his death, you get stepped up basis, meaning that your basis in the house for tax purposes is the market value at the time of his death.

You see the difference? Okay. Yes. He inherited the house from my grandmother. Oh, so it's even worse. Okay. So he has a zero basis. What's the house worth? If I had to guess, I'd say four grand. I mean, 400,000. Okay. So the difference is capital gains tax on 400,000 bucks. Okay. This is a $60,000 error if he dies now to give you the house before death. You're going to pay an extra $60,000 in taxes. Do not do this. Okay.

I'm so glad I called. It was a $60,000 phone call, Jessica. Way to go. Yeah, and guess what? It was free. Even the toll-free number is free. Go figure. Good show, John. That puts this hour of the show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. ♪

Dr. John Deloney here. Mental and emotional health challenges, broken relationships, it's all just part of life, but they don't have to define you. The Dr. John Deloney Show is here to help. It's a collar-driven podcast where you can get practical advice on dealing with anxiety, loneliness, depression, relationships, and more.

relationship challenges, your kids, and so much more. Listen to questions from our callers, or if you're walking through a tough situation and need some help, give me a call. You were never meant to do life alone, and that's what this podcast is all about. Follow along on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or the Ramsey Network app. Remember, you're worth being well.